Friday Night Live: Leader Jeffries, Reps Jayapal & Pressley and More | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!

Summary

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The Joy Reid Show – “Friday Night Live: Leader Jeffries, Reps Jayapal & Pressley and More”

Air Date: February 14, 2026
Host: Joy-Ann Reid
Guests & Co-Hosts: Wajahat Ali, Tiffany Cross, Rep. Pramila Jayapal, Rep. Ayanna Pressley, Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, Father Michael Flager, Dr. Brian Kwoba

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This special live episode of The Joy Reid Show, broadcast from Chicago, tackles the state of American democracy, escalating government authoritarianism, the chilling targeting of journalists and activists (notably Don Lemon’s recent indictment), the normalization of white nationalist rhetoric, the continued expansion and abuse by immigration enforcement agencies like ICE, and the degradation of inclusive education and Black history. Joy is joined by co-hosts Wajahat Ali and Tiffany Cross, with appearances from key lawmakers and thought leaders to strategize resistance, demand accountability from leadership, and call for a bolder, people-first agenda. The episode stands as both an urgent warning and a celebration of Black resilience, sisterhood, and activism.

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KEY SEGMENTS & DISCUSSIONS

1. Don Lemon’s Arraignment & the Targeting of Journalists

00:00 – 06:30

• Context: Don Lemon, along with activists and journalist Georgia Ford (“Minneapolis Nine”), has been indicted and pleaded not guilty to charges widely condemned as intimidation of the press.
• Joy Reid: “What they're doing is trying to scare the bejesus out of other journalists... This is Orwellian, it's giving Soviet old Soviet Union, new Russia, North Korea, Iran.” (04:43)
• Wajahat Ali: Points out global patterns of repression, referencing past Trump-era labeling of media as “enemy of the people” and the dangerous implications for truth-tellers:
  “If they can go after Don Lemon, they'll go after you. If they can kill Renee Nicole, good. They can kill you. If they can kill Alex Pretty, they can kill you...” (03:48)
• Broader connection: Both the legal process and aggressive surveillance of journalists are used as tools of punishment and deterrence for press freedom.

2. Rise of White Nationalist Rhetoric in Government

07:09 – 13:38

• Joy Reid & Wajahat Ali: Play clips and analyze the nomination of white nationalist Jeremy Carl for a State Dept. role, dissecting his “white identity” claims.
• Dr. Brian Kwoba: Calls out Carl’s struggle to define “white identity” beyond ethnic markers, exposing underlying assumptions of white supremacy.
• Notable Quote:
  Wajahat Ali: “The world's most mediocre white men. This is me playing the world's smallest violin on my brown fingers...” (10:09)
• Larger critique: Dominant white supremacist ideologies are being funneled from fringe actors into policy positions, often with Republican silence or tacit approval.

3. Epstein Files, Surveillance of Lawmakers & DOJ Overreach

13:34 – 28:46

• Guest: Rep. Pramila Jayapal shares shocking details: After reviewing Epstein files, she learned the U.S. Attorney General (Pam Bondi) had a dossier of her search history—spying on Congressional members’ investigative work, violating separation of powers.
  • “It's absolutely outrageous… Every American has to say, okay, if she's surveilling members of Congress to use for her own, what is she doing to the regular American out there?” (18:17–24:14)
• Content of the Epstein files: Details “disgusting” elite misconduct, cover-up of sexual abuse, and systemic protection of predators while exposing and endangering survivors.

4. ICE, DHS, and Immigration Enforcement – Calls for Abolition vs. Reform

29:48 – 47:34 (Jeffries segment); 81:23 – 90:51 (Pressley follow-up)

• Joy, Wajahat, and Leader Hakeem Jeffries debate whether ICE can be reformed or should be abolished:
  • Jeffries underscores using the funding fight to force reforms, not full abolition, emphasizing criminal accountability for ICE agents.
    • “Dramatic, bold, meaningful, transformational changes must occur... absent that, DHS is not moving forward.” (32:46)
  • Joy/Wajahat push back: Framing ICE as inherently lawless, mass-violating, and urging Democratic leaders to campaign explicitly for abolition.
    • Wajahat: “Why not lead and say abolish ICE?... People are asking themselves, why are our taxpayer dollars paying for masked, lawless men to terrorize our communities?” (39:49)
• Rep. Pressley (82:42): “[ICE] is a racist. It is beyond reform. I did not believe the masked white militia of the KKK ... can be reformed and neither can ICE.”
• Father Michael Flager: Backed abolition, admonished Democrats for lack of boldness and called for ground-up reimagining of public safety.

5. Attacks on Black History, Academic Freedom, and Multicultural Programs

103:02 – 111:40

• Dr. Brian Kwoba explains Tennessee’s elimination of DEI and Multicultural Affairs at University of Memphis—affecting Black, Muslim, and LGBTQ student organizations—and imminent threats to tenure and academic freedom.
• Encourages a return to independent, community-based Black studies as both strategy and tradition.

6. Voter Suppression, the SAVE Act, and Threats to Democracy

92:01 – 101:55

• Rep. Pressley (with Joy & Tiffany): Breaks down the deceptive framing of the SAVE Act:
  • “It is just voter suppression, Jim Crow, pure and simple. ... They are unlawfully doing redistricting, which could stand to impact maybe 30 Congressional Black Caucus seats... look at the whole board.” (94:00)
• Trump regime’s efforts to nationalize elections, intimidate voters (plans for ICE at polling sites as discussed by Steve Bannon), and suppress votes via ID and citizenship requirements.

7. The Role of Faith and Moral Leadership in Social Justice

51:21 – 59:13

• Father Michael Flager:
  • “The Christian right has hijacked Jesus… we are supposed to be the conscience of America—but we have lost our credibility. ... This is a moment for us to expose the hijack of Christianity—that Jesus they’re talking about ain’t Jesus, my friend.” (52:45, 55:12)
• Faith leaders’ responsibility to reclaim prophetic, justice-centered messaging and mobilize resistance to authoritarianism and exclusion.

8. Women’s Sisterhood, Self-Care, and Black Resilience

63:26 – 73:30

• Tiffany Cross & Joy Reid reflect on the exhaustion and overwork of Black women, importance of rest, mutual support, and celebrating the launch of Cross’ book “Love Me: A Letter to Black Women in a Toxic Country, Career, and Relationship.”
• Emphasis on collective action: “We need love... Show that same love to Sunny Hostin. ... We love you and self-love. We're giving you love today.” (119:04)

9. Closing: Black History Month, Culture Recommendations, Love & Community Building

103:01 – End

• Author Dr. Brian Kwoba discusses his new book on forgotten Black radical Hubert Harrison, connecting to broader efforts to reclaim erased Black figures.
• Joy & Tiffany bond over shared cultural touchstones (Game of Thrones prequel), self-care, and sending Valentine’s love to Black women, sisters in media, and the community.

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NOTABLE QUOTES (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• Wajahat Ali: “If they can go after Don Lemon, they'll go after you.” (03:48)
• Joy Reid: “This is Orwellian ... It's giving Soviet old Soviet Union, new Russia, North Korea, Iran.” (04:43)
• Rep. Pressley: “ICE cannot be reformed. ... They are a threat to everyone.” (82:42)
• Father Michael Flager: “The Christian right has hijacked Jesus... That Jesus they're talking about ain’t Jesus, my friend.” (55:12)
• Rep. Jayapal: “They are not supposed to surveil members of Congress. ... What is she doing to the regular American out there?” (18:17)
• Joy Reid: “Wouldn't the boldest possible move be to ... ICE becomes not just defunded, but meets its demise?” (34:10)
• Wajahat Ali: “America is so diverse that even our white supremacists are diverse. Mashallah.” (13:34)
• Rep. Pressley: “If a doctor can be sued for malpractice, there should be restitution ... These families deserve to be able to sue these federal agents.” (86:39)
• Rep. Jayapal: “...underneath it is the real intent... to turn America into a white supremacist nation.” (14:47)
• Tiffany Cross: “We're in fight or flight so much ... running a business and ... trying to get this show off the ground.” (66:41)
• Rep. Pressley: “They always telegraph their punch... it really is about our readiness in the face of that.” (99:30)

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TIMELINE OF IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–06:30 | Don Lemon, Press Intimidation, First Amendment Threats | | 07:09–13:38 | White Nationalism, Jeremy Carl Testimony, GOP Responses | | 13:34–28:46 | Epstein Files, Bondi’s Spying on Congress, DOJ Overreach | | 29:48–47:34 | DHS, ICE, Abolition vs. Reform, Jeffries Interview | | 51:21–59:13 | Faith, Moral Leadership, Christianity & Social Justice | | 81:23–90:51 | Rep. Pressley: ICE Abolition, Terror in Streets and Camps | | 92:01–101:55| SAVE Act, Voter Suppression, Trump’s Power Grabs | |103:02–111:40| Academic Freedom, TN Black Studies, Dr. Kwoba’s Book | |119:04–122:54| Valentine’s Wishes, Sunny Hostin, Cross’ Book Message |

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TONE & STYLE

The episode is passionate, defiant, sometimes sardonic, always rooted in solidarity and urgency. Speakers balance personal storytelling, pointed critique, and humor (“world's most mediocre white men...smallest violin on my brown fingers”) while remaining unsparing about the threats facing democracy, journalism, and marginalized communities.

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SUMMARY

This episode of The Joy Reid Show stands as a rallying call—exposing the coordinated attacks on press freedom, civil rights, and Black history under the Trump administration and allied state actors. Through incisive interviews and live analysis, Joy and her guests insist on naming white supremacy and state violence, challenging institutional inertia, and demanding bolder actions from Democratic leadership. At its heart, the conversation champions Black sisterhood, the need for collective rest, creative resistance, and the power of community in the face of authoritarianism. As the hosts and guests repeatedly argue: incrementalism and appeasement are no longer sufficient—now is the time for defiant, visionary leadership to defend democracy, justice, and liberation.

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Transcript

[Father Michael Flager]

Okay.

[Joy Reid]

Well, happy Friday, everybody. Tgif. Welcome to the Joy Reid Show. As you can see, we are not in our normal location. Coming to you live from beautiful Chicago, Illinois, one of our favorite, favorite, favorite cities. We've got a packed show for you all tonight. We're going to do things just a little bit differently because we are on the road. I'm on the road. And so tonight we are actually going to be joined by two co hosts. We're bringing you two co hosts in hour one. The great Wajahat Ali, our great friend of the show and the proprietor of the Left Hook, is going to be in hour one. And co hosting with me in hour two is going to be our friend Tiffany Cross, journalist, analyst, CNN the Slayer, and author of the soon to be hit book, Love Me A Letter to Black Women in a Toxic Career, country, and Relationship. So go ahead and hit like and subscribe. Go ahead and hit share. Hit the little notification thingy so you can never miss an episode. We love that you guys are here. And big up to all the Lemon heads out there. Yes. I was just on with Don Lemon just a short time ago. But before we talk about what's happened with Don, let me bring in my. My August co host for this hour. Waj, where you at?

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Hello.

[Wajahat Ali]

Hello, everyone. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I will gladly be your Pakistani Robin to your Batman. And I just want everyone to notice that I actually wore a collared shirt. For Joy and her audience, this is very rare. And people are like, what's happening? Are you going to a funeral? Are you going to a party? I'm like, wow, I must look terrible every day.

[Joy Reid]

So.

[Wajahat Ali]

So I tried my. I washed my face. I put lotion on. I have a collared shirt, and I'm here to chew bubblegum and kick butt. And I'm all out of bubblegum, and.

[Joy Reid]

You'Re all out of bubble gum. I love it. Well, we look like a good pair because I'm dressed up, too. I'm normally, like, in my merch or, like, a sweatshirt. So I think we're both Dressy Bessie tonight, so we appreciate that. All right, let's just jump right in because Don Lemon was arraigned today. He pleaded not guilty. Of course, all of the Minneapolis nine, if we want to call them that. And these are the seven activists, as well as two journalists, Don Lemon and Georgia Ford, have all been indicted for foolishness. You know, we're going to say Tom Foolery here. And let's play a clip of Don Lemon after he came out of making his not guilty plea.

[Wajahat Ali]

You.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Thank you.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

I wanted to say this isn't just about me. This is about all journalists, especially here in the United States. First off, I'd like to thank everyone.

[Joy Reid]

Again for their support.

[Wajahat Ali]

To my colleagues, countless journalists around the.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

World, the Lemon nation, my family, and my friends, you all have showed up for me in a real way, and.

[Wajahat Ali]

I am extremely grateful for that. I feel it. I feel it.

[Joy Reid]

I feel it.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

For more than 30 years, I've been a journalist, and the power and protection of the first amendment has been the.

[Wajahat Ali]

Underpinning of my work.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

The First Amendment, the freedom of the press, the bedrock of our democracy, the events before my arrest and what's happened since so that people are finally realizing.

[Wajahat Ali]

What this administration is all about.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

The process is the punishment with them. And like all of you here in Minnesota, the great people of Minnesota, I will not be intimidated. I will not back down.

[Wajahat Ali]

I will fight these baseless charges, and I will not be silenced.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you very much. The process is the punishment, essentially, trying to scare the bejesus out of other journalists to try to prevent other journalists from feeling like they need to cover these protests and resistance. Your thoughts?

[Wajahat Ali]

If they can go after Don Lemon, they'll go after you. If they can kill Renee Nicole, good. They can kill you. If they can kill Alex Pretty, they can kill you. If they can try to cover it up, they'll try to cover up your disappearance and your murder. And, folks, I just want to build up some righteous rage in the next two hours.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Joy.

[Wajahat Ali]

As they are investigating our colleague Don Lemon and three black journalists for exercising the first amendment right. As the Department of Justice is pressuring prosecutors to not investigate Officer Ross, the man who murdered Renee Nicole, Good. But her widow. How many investigations have been launched about the Epstein files, Joy?

[Joy Reid]

I would go with none.

[Wajahat Ali]

Oh, wow. Fascinating. Fascinating. So it seems that Pam Bondi, as the attorney general, she's not actually the attorney general. She is defense counsel for Donald Trump and the prosecutor of any and all critics who make Donald Trump look not so good.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. And the thing about it is that what they're doing in this form of intimidation. Note that they also had an FBI raid at a journalist's home to try to acquire information about her sources. They also allegedly have tried to get Don's phone. They've issued a subpoena for his phone. They want to know who he's talking to, who he's texting with. All of the. All of us who text with Don, they're trying to get inside of our personal and Private conversations. This is Orwellian waj. It's giving Soviet old Soviet Union, new Russia, North Korea, Iran.

[Wajahat Ali]

I mean, you're absolutely right. Look, go back to the first Trump administration. What did Donald Trump and right wing MAGA call the press? The enemy of the people. Who also used the term enemy of the people describe journalists. Stalin. What did fascists and authoritarians do to journalists, writers and academics? Kill them. If you don't know your history, you can be easily manipulated, as with George Orwell who said who controls the past, controls who controls the present, controls the past. Who controls the past, controls the future. And what bet what bigger threat to this fascist regime than truth tellers and journalists?

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, indeed. And I will note that Bibi Netanyahu is here for his, what, fourth, fifth, A private meeting with Donald Trump. He's almost coming off like he's his handler rather than some sort of friend in fellow in government. And with Netanyahu, they have outright killed nearly 300 journalists in Gaza. And note that they started just killing the independent journalists, just without any chill at all. But eventually they got to Al Jazeera related journalists. So even journalists who had a formal connection. So Don Lemon, this is definitely a message to independent media, media people like you and me watch that they're going to come after independent journalists. But the journalists whose home they raided, I think worked for the Washington Post. Absolutely.

[Wajahat Ali]

She worked for the Washington Post last month.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. So they're going after traditional and non traditional journalists while also cowing almost completely the mainstream media. And before we get into more of that, let's talk about this gentleman that they're trying to put in. Let me remind you guys, if you guys don't remember it, Jason, this is a two. This was the Equal Opportunity Employment, I mean Opportunity Employment Commission, which is supposed to care about making sure that people are not discriminated against at work. Clarence Thomas used to run it. Here was the PSA that they ran recently in these United States.

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm Andrea Lucas, chair of the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Are you a white male who's experienced discrimination at work based on your race or sex? You may have a claim to recover money under federal civil rights laws. Contact the EEOC as soon as possible. Time limits are typically strict for filing a claim. The EEOC is the federal agency charged with enforcing federal anti discrimination law against businesses and other private sector employers. The EOC is committed to identifying, attacking and eliminating all forms of race and sex discrimination discrimination, including against white male applicants and employees.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, we can leave it there. We can leave it there. Well, we. I have a candidate watch for somebody who may need to call the EEOC and avail himself of their services. His name is Jeremy Carl. He's somebody who apparently tweets a lot about the great replacement theory and he's trying to get a very important job. It's a State department job which deals with our policy toward international organizations like the United Nations. Jeremy Carl, here's some of his testimony. This is eight three. Jason, please. You define white identity and what you.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Think is being erased about white identity, certain types of Anglo derived culture that comes from our history. What. Let me think about this.

[Wajahat Ali]

You know, Senator, I would say if.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

You were to look at the book by one of your former Senate colleagues, born fighting about the. The sort of Scotch Irish military culture and certain pride that went with that, that would be one example. Obviously you could have sub elements of that culture. You could have Italians, you could have Irish and those are in many ways more.

[Joy Reid]

But you're worried about white culture.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

You're not worried about. You're now retreating to ethnic identity. You don't speak about ethnic identity, you speak about white identity. So tell me the values that stitch together white identity and that make it different than black identity. I would say that the white church is very different than the black church.

[Joy Reid]

In terms of its tone and style.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

On average, foods, food, ways could often be different. Music, those are being erased.

[Joy Reid]

Music could be different. If you look at the super bowl.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Halftime show, which was not in English this year, so our ability to access.

[Joy Reid]

White churches or white food or white.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Music is being erased. I am concerned with the majority common American culture that we had for some time, that through particularly mass immigration I think has become much more Balkanized and.

[Joy Reid]

I think that weakens us.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

And again, I'm not running away from that comment. I'm not apologizing for it. Well, I'm way over my time. I think you're struggling to answer this question right, because underlying your beliefs is. Is a sentiment that white culture is just simply better.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

Waj.

[Wajahat Ali]

Oh, the world's most mediocre white men. This is me playing the world's smallest violin on my brown fingers. Oh my Lord. Jeremy Karl, good luck. You're gonna need that eeoc, buddy. Cause you're not gonna get that job. And I wanna say this. Republicans have come out against it, but not because of the white supremacy. I wanna do a small quote from Senator John Curtis, a Republican of Utah. I find Jeremy Carl's anti Israel views and insensitive remarks about the Jewish people unbecoming of the position for which he has been nominated. That's why Republicans care. But let's be honest, Joy, what he is parroting, what he is saying is exactly what's been coming out of the White House for the past year. Stephen Miller, Budget Himmler here, Pee Wee German is in the White House. These are the types of white nationalist talking points promoted by the DHS Department of Labor. Donald Trump dined with Nick Fuentes, who praises Hitler. We saw Politico publish those thousands, thousands of signal chats where they were praising Hitler. This is who they are. And if I may, Joy, in addition to Jeremy Karl, just to show you why this is all theater, folks, even the Republicans are so pissed off about Jeremy Karl and his really pathetic defense of his white nationalism. 3 days ago the New York Times reported that Peyton Rollins, a 21 year old gruper, was who promoted these white nationalist talking points through the Department of Labor. Guess what happened to him, Joy? Oh no, he didn't get fired. He got a promotion. And now he has been hired by the Department of Homeland Security to run their social media accounts.

[Joy Reid]

Fabulous. Well, you know, maybe this guy can go work with him. I'm going to play one more clip and then we have a guest. Let's play a four, please. Because he says that it is white Americans who are truly being discriminated against in America.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

A year ago, were white Americans the most discriminated against group in the United States?

[Joy Reid]

You said it, Senator.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Certainly this is my belief.

[Joy Reid]

I'm not running away from that.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

I think that while of course all races in different contexts can be subject to really severe discrimination, that when we look at our legal structures, white Americans are often very disfavored in overt ways. We're seeing this in the Small Business Administration many other places.

[Joy Reid]

So your, your, your belief is that.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

White Americans face more discrimination, at least prior to the Trump administration fixing this, than black Americans on average, Senator? Yes, that's correct. And I'm not running away from that statement at all.

[Joy Reid]

Okay. He's being defended, of course, by Christopher Rufo, whose wife is a Thai former undocumented immigrant, I'm sure I'm assuming JD Vance will probably defend him as well, though his wife is also not a white person. And Pete exif. Oh, not Pete Exf. I'm sorry, Matt Gates. Sorry, Matt Gates. Sorry, not Pete. Matt Gaetz, who left Congress because of allegations that he might have trafficked teenage girls. Let's, I think, let's leave it there. I do want to say one more thing, and this is a six. Jason, if you could. I do find it interesting. Watch that. The far right can't really even do white nationalism, white supremacy. Right. I mean, their leading streamer is a Mexican who lives in his. He's Mexican, his father's Mexican. They got the two brothers of a chess champion who's black who's running the manosphere, and it's a black guy that's running the proud boys. He's a black Cuban. So it's like they're. They're. They're DEI ing their white nationalism. It's weird.

[Wajahat Ali]

America is so diverse that even our white supremacists are diverse. Mashallah.

[Joy Reid]

And Candace Owens is the one who's running White Lives Matter. I can't make it make sense. We've got a great guest. Let's bring her in. In. Because we've got a lot to talk to her about about the Epstein files. You guys will recall this image, if you would, Jason. And this is B1. And it is Pam Bondi refusing to even look at the victims and the. I should say the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein who were standing behind her. And the congresswoman who really broke her brain asking her to at least apologize to them for releasing their names was the great Pramila Jayapal of the great state of Washington. And she joins us now. Congresswoman Jayapal, welcome to the show.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

Thank you, Joy. It's great to be with you. Batman and Robin, I don't know what makes me. Does that make Butler, you know, Batwoman?

[Wajahat Ali]

You are Batwoman.

[Joy Reid]

Yes.

[Tiffany Cross]

All right, here I go.

[Joy Reid]

We are all superheroes on today. And that's just going to enrage them even more, Congresswoman, because we're all brown.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

That was quite something, what you showed. Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

So what do you make of that? That we now have a government that is really, you know, centering itself around the idea that they're going to protect white Americans from discrimination.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

Well, we knew that. Joy. Look at Project 2025. That was threaded throughout the entire thing. That document was the blueprint for how you turn America into a white supremacist nation. And. And I think we're seeing a lot of that coming through. I mean, immigration was obviously one of the ways in which they were going to do that, so was getting rid of civil rights as we know it. And so I think that, you know, what I found interesting in that is he really struggled to define what he was saying because he knows that there are certain things he shouldn't be saying.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Right.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

And.

[Joy Reid]

Right.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

And so it was this hodgepodge of things that just didn't make sense, because underneath it is the real intent. And look, this isn't new to the United States, as you both, as you both know, but we are seeing it be implemented with people not on the outside, on the periphery, on the fringe, but people who are within government in the highest realms of power, and therefore, they have access to the. The. All of the institutions. Right. The Department of Homeland Security, the Department of justice, the military, all of the actual powerful institutions and capacity to. To do some of these things.

[Joy Reid]

And.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

But I do think, you know, and maybe, I mean, maybe it's just hopefulness, but I do think that the nation is rising up against it in different ways. And I do. I think that's important for us to recognize as well, because if you look at whether it's Minnesota, you know, you're in Chicago. Joy. I spent. I did a field hearing in Chicago. I mean, the incredible things that were happening in Chicago and Chicago Land when DHS was there, also around affordability. I mean, you can't separate the economic project from authoritarianism because they are very deeply tied. I mean, the authoritarian is about giving power to that elite class of billionaires and people who will support that person as long as their wealth is increasing and they really don't care about anybody else. And so this is all really tied together, and I think it is starting to backfire on them. And you see it in the polls, you see it in the courts, to the lower courts anyway, maybe not the Supreme Court in the way we want to see it yet, but certainly the lower courts. And. And you see it in the streets, which is the most important place.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. And was. I know you have some questions about the Epstein files and the horror of that hearing with Pam Bondi. So go for it. Watch.

[Wajahat Ali]

Yeah, you know, Representative, you talked about authoritarian regimes, and when we began the show, we talked about if they can go after Don Lemon, they can go after anyone. If they can kill Renee Nicole, good and covered up, they can kill any of us. If they can defend a cabal of pedophiles, oh, my God. And if they can spy on anyone, well, they'll spy. If they can spy on a representative, they can spy on all of us. And I do want to ask you this one question because it has disturbed me since I found out about it yesterday at the hearing. Specifically, Attorney General Pam Bondi had a black binder and that had the words Jay Paul Pramila, search history and the list of documents whose numbers coincide with the numbering of Epstein files. Your response to the Attorney General? Maybe I don't know I'm going to use this word spying on you, because I'm curious, how did she get that private information? Why did she have your search history? And now that you know that you had this entire binder, your response to that discovery?

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

Yeah, I found out about it during the hearing because I got a call from a CNN reporter asking me about one of the searches I did. And I was so shocked. I said, how do you know what search I did? And, and, and then I saw the picture, the photograph. It was, it was the. I mean, I was in there for a couple of hours, so it wasn't, you know, you would have had to have many pages, which it looked like she did. It looked like Pam Bondi had a stapled set of papers that was very clearly labeled Jayapal Pramila Search. And that was all of the searches I did. Now, the way she had it is because we had to go to the DOJ annex, where there was a small room where we had to leave our phones outside and four computers, and we had to make an appointment in advance to go. So they knew where we were coming. They logged us in to the computers. So four members at a time. There were at least two to four DOJ staffers in that small room with us at all times. One for a good part of my time that I was there, one was sitting right behind me, maybe, maybe six feet away from me, but could see my screen, could see everything I was doing. And it appears that they saved our search histories because each of us had an independent login, is what I now realize. They logged us in. But it did seem like they were typing my name as part of that. So they must have had independent logins. They must have saved the search history, spied on all of us and what we were searching, and then taken that information. Some staffer actually put that information together in a little memo document, which is what she had, what Pam Bondi, the Attorney General of the United States, had in her binder pocket on me that she brought in to use against me. Now, I don't know how she was planning to use it. I have nothing to hide about what I searched. I mean, that's not anybody's business. That's my legislative duty. It's a separation of powers issue. They are not supposed to surveil members of Congress. And so now that I found out about it, I've done a number of things. I've spoken to Mike Johnson twice already, and you may have seen in a very uncharacteristic move, Mike Johnson yesterday, after Talking to me the night before said that this is unacceptable, that members of Congress should be able to peruse these documents and not be surveilled. That's a big deal that he said that. In addition, other members on the Republican side have, have echoed that. I just actually maybe an hour ago, released a communication with Jamie Raskin and Robert Garcia directly to Pam Bondi in which we say we want this practice to end immediately. And, and I've asked a number of questions. I'd like to know, how many members did she do that for? Did she save the search trees of all of the members? Why did she do that? Why did she bring that paper into the hearing room to use against us in what we called her burn book? That, that book was full of all the insults, all the, you know, charges she wanted to throw at us instead of answering the questions. So this reminds me of, you know, you might remember, I think it was 2014, there was a big scandal with the CIA, similar kind of thing, where intelligence staffers from the Senate were going to a CIA location to look at post nine, 11, you know, documents, and they were surveilled. And at that time, of course, there was an inspector general. We don't really have Department of Justice inspector general. They've all been fired. But that inspector general, you know, did a report, an investigation on it, put an end to it. We are, I have asked Mike Johnson to immediately work with us, and if he doesn't, we're going to do it on our own to get an immediate new process, stop tracking and written, written answers to these, to these questions about what exactly has been surveilled from the Attorney General herself. I think it's. It's absolutely outrageous. And I think that it is, you know, I think every American has to say, okay, if she's surveilling members of Congress to use for her own, you know, for her own sort of personal vendettas and to hide the actual truth of Epstein. What is she doing to the regular American out there? How. What information is she getting on Americans that she doesn't agree with? So just one more thing on this. I think it's really important that we think about the fact that she put staff time into. Somebody had to go through that search history and create that little memo document that was in her binder about me, because it was a summary. It had the EFTA number, which is Epstein Transparency Act, Epstein Files Transparency act, and then a number. That's how you search a document. Then it had a summary of, of what the search was about, like what was the email about? So it took out a key line from the email and that had been put together for every item that I searched. Now I was in there for two hours almost. So think about the amount of staff time that went into that versus unredacting things that never should be redacted of powerful predators and redacting the names of survivors because both of those things still need to be done and 3 million more documents need to be released. So they're spending time on surveilling us instead of what they should be doing for, for to comply with the law.

[Joy Reid]

Before we let you go, Congresswoman, that's, that's frightening. It's Orwellian, it's Nixonian, but it definitely is very, it's giving very Pambondi. Jason, if you could put a B7 because Cash Patel testified under oath that there was no evidence that there were any co conspirators. And Pam Bondi has been very clear about trying to make it seem that there, there really is nothing to see here, even though she said she had the Epstein files on her desk. But I just want you to look at this list of people who are administration officials who appear in the Epstein files. Of course, Donald Trump, who appears more than anyone else. Melania Trump, Howard Lutnick, who seems to have lied when he did a media interview saying he'd never been to the island. It turned out he went there with his kids and his wife, which is weird. The Secretary of Navy, John Phelan, Paolo Zampoli of the Kennedy Center, RFK Jr. Kevin Marsh, Mehmet Oz, Dr. Oz, who's running CMS. Elon Musk, Steve Bannon, who's advised the president and who was doing, I guess, a documentary to try to rehabilitate Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein's reputation. Alex Acosta, who we know gave him that sweetheart deal. Bill Barr, interestingly enough, whose father hired Jeffrey Epstein at that school when he taught high school, and Brett Ratner, who just directed the Melania film. Do you believe that Cash Patel might need to get a referral for potentially lying to Congress? And do you believe that Pam Bondi lied to Congress? Ted Lieu brought forth that she claimed that Donald Trump had never been in the presence of teenage girls with Jeffrey Epstein. He said he believed that she perjured herself.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

I do believe that they have probably lied. I have no reason to believe that they haven't because I, you know what stunned me about looking through those files? And like I said, I only spent two hours there because we were only given, we demanded Access and we only got it on Monday and then the hearing was on Wednesday. I could not believe how much is in these files. I mean, it made me sick. Joy, you know, I really. This was the creation of this fantasy and very real island where these rich, powerful people could do anything they wanted. And there were emails to that effect. You know, you can take off the shackles here. Jokes about pedophiles, jokes about eight and nine year old girls. Disgusting. Disgusting. Access and power and assault. I mean acceptance of assault and rape that I think you just can't, you can't go into those files and not see that there is a lot of evidence here. And so when Cash Patel says there's nothing to prosecute, when, you know, when Todd Blanche, who by the way went and interviewed Ghislaine Maxwell on his own and then authorized the release of Ghislaine Maxwell to a minimum security prison, when Todd Blanche says, well, they're just partying together, that's not a crime. It is absolutely disgusting. And let me just say these people that are named in here are, you know, the heads of governments in cabinets. They're the heads of big Wall street banks, financial firms, law firms, academic centers. And it isn't just Republicans, I should say there are this, is, this crosses across both parties. And it is all about wealth, privilege and complete lack of any morality or accountability. And so I, I think that's why I really wanted to. I know we didn't spend time on the survivors, but it's why I wanted to bring the survivors into the room and make Bondi turn around and apologize to them because the harm that she has done by retraumatizing them, by releasing their information, their personal information, nude photographs, you know, releasing the names of Jane do, who have been kept private for 20, 30 years in some cases and now have been exposed is so disgusting because it is happening at the same time that she's protecting these predators and pedophiles and continuing this massive cover up.

[Joy Reid]

Congressman Pramila Jayapal, we appreciate you stay on them, please and come back as often as you want. Thank you so much.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

Anytime. Thank you both.

[Joy Reid]

All right, we're going to take one moment here because you know, we could not do this independent media without our speaker sponsors. We appreciate them so much. So let's big up one of our favorite sponsors and this is our friends at Quints. Now if y' all caught our interview with the head of Impact, you got to see one of my favorite little Quints outfits. Salaam Maria. I was sitting next to him in my fabulous purple, that beautiful purple sweater that was from quints. And they have so many incredible wardrobe staples that are quality made to last, fabulous cashmere. They feel luxe but they actually are affordable. And it's high quality clothing, not high quality prices. They're a hundred percent European linen, organic cotton, everything built to hold up season after season. The stitching is fabulous, the fit is fabulous. Trust me, they are gorgeous. And if you want to refresh your wardrobe with quints and join the quince nation, just go to quince.com joyread for free shipping on your order. They're also offering 365 day returns to our team TJRS family. It's also available in our favorite country, Canada.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Canada.

[Joy Reid]

Please take us all that is Q I N C E.com joyreid to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com joyread also they make great gifts. Watch if you want to get something for the Mrs. They're fabulous. So let's, let's, let's keep going because we're in a moment going to be joined by Representative Hakeem Jeffries, of course, the majority minority leader, perhaps soon to be speaker of the House. But before we, before we get to that, I do want to get your opinion on the DHS of it because the day before we got we spent so much time in the Bondi hearing that we might have glossed over. You know, the day before you had the heads of ice, Department of Homeland Security and USCIS also on the Hill and they didn't do so well either. We do have an issue there as well. We're going to talk about it with Representative Jeffries. But what do you make of how those three men held up under questioning and how the Democrats handled them?

[Wajahat Ali]

You look, I am very tough on the Democrats, but I'll give them credit where credit's due. I think they played hardball as they should. They should be playing hardball smash mouth football against dhs. Kristi Noem, Stephen Miller and all these people. ISIS killed two Americans that we know of. Actually ISIS killed more than two Americans, folks. ICE has murdered Renee. Nicole Goode and Alex Preddy covered up their murder. And if you saw, they did a small walk back because as you've seen, Joy and this Trump administration plays with the Roy Cohn philosophy. You never apologize, right? You always fight, fight, fight. They said one of the individuals said, you know, we could have been mistaken in referring to Renee, Nicole Goode and Alex Perdi as domestic terrorists, which is what Kristi Noem, our head of dhs, referred to Renee Nicole Good as her body was still warm Joy. She said that she was a domestic terrorist who weaponized her car against Officer Ross. So the fact that they even gave you that much shows oops, we've been making mistakes.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. They know that they're in trouble here and that they will eventually be held accountable. Let's go ahead and bring in the Minority Leader of the United States House of Representatives, the Honorable Hakeem Jeffries. Thank you so much for being here.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Great to be with you.

[Joy Reid]

So let's talk about that. The Department of Homeland Security's funding runs out tomorrow. Now, just to be clear for those in the chat, they will still have money because the big ugly bill funded ICE so that it is essentially funded better than most armies throughout the world. But the funding will officially run out. The Democrats and if Jason, you could put it up, have put. Have put up a set of demands that we've read on this show that seem entirely reasonable. Demasking ice, making them identify themselves, making them basically just act like regular law enforcement has to behave all over the country. Will the Democrats in the House, which you control that caucus. And do you believe Chuck Schumer will cause the Senate Democrats to hold firm on not giving them another dime until they do the things on this list?

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Yeah, I believe we're going to continue to hold firm. And that's in fact why when the clock strikes midnight tonight, there will be a shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security because the funding bill will lapse. Now, our view is pretty simple. Taxpayer dollars should be used to make life more affordable for the American people, not brutalize or kill them as was done in cold blood. With respect to the killing of Renee Nicole Goode and Alex Preddy, horrifying the American people, we know ICE is out of control. They've gone way too far. They need to be reined in. And our value proposition is that immigration enforcement in this country should be fair, it should be just, and it should be humane. Donald Trump promised to target violent felons who are here in the country illegally. But that's not what's happening. And that's why our view is that dramatic, bold, meaningful, transformational changes must occur in terms of the manner in which ICE conducts itself via statutory and legislative change. That is ironclad. And absent that dhs, in terms of the funding bill, is not moving forward.

[Joy Reid]

Before I let watch out, I know he has lots of questions for you, too. But you said dramatic, bold change. When my mother became a United states citizen in 1976. Took her 16 years to get her citizenship. There was no ice. There was just the Immigration and Naturalization Service. It worked perfectly well for her. ICE only exists because of nine of the 911 attacks. Right? The Department of Homeland Security only exists because the 911 attacks. We existed for 200 years as a country without either of them. Wouldn't the boldest possible move be to say when that funding runs out, this entire agency shrivels up and goes away and ICE becomes not just defunded, but it meets its demise?

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Well, I think as you pointed out, with respect to the one big ugly bill, which is a whole different battle that needs to be waged, you're talking about $191 billion slush fund that Republicans exclusively, not a single Democrat voted for. The one big ugly bill in the House and the Senate was given to DHS. $75 billion of that going to ICE at the same time when they enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history and ripped food from the mouths of hungry children, seniors and veterans by cutting SNAP by $186 billion. Largest cut to SNAP in American history. We all opposed it. All of that needs to be addressed as we move forward. It's one of the reasons why, of course, we need to take back control of the House of Representatives and hopefully the Senate as well, so that we have the gavels that to be able to address the abuse and misuse of taxpayer dollars. In terms of the fight that's in front of us, Right? That will be in front of us for the next few days, next few weeks, next few months, depending on how long Republicans continue to insist on them preferring to shut down fema, shut down the TSA, or shut down the Coast Guard as opposed to making the type of dramatic changes that are necessary. The question that I'm asking is how can we save American lives now? How can we stop the violent targeting of law abiding immigrant families now? How can we stop the abuse that is taking place, the targeting of sensitive locations like schools and hospitals and houses of worship and of course polling sites now. And how can we stop ICE agents from behaving with violent impunity?

[Joy Reid]

But wouldn't it stop them if they just stopped being an agency? Just abolish ice.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

But I don't know what you're suggesting in terms of the funding fight that's in front of us now with the one big ugly. But what we're trying to achieve, for instance, I think the most significant thing that can be done amongst the whole list of things that we've talked about substantively, is to ensure that when ICE agents violate the law, when they violate the law, they can be criminally investigated and prosecuted and are not shielded by this principle of absolute immunity, which is one of the things that we've put on the table. And the reason why, just so that I'm clear, my thinking that we see these people behaving the way they are behaving, it's not just the masks, and of course, we've demanded that the mask come down. It's the fact that they think that the Department of Justice under Pam Bondi, who's a disgrace, will never investigate them. And if the Department of Justice does investigate them, they'll never charge them or convict them criminally. And even if they are charged and convicted criminally, Donald Trump will eventually pardon them. That's the only rational explanation for why people would engage in such blatant violence and break the law repeatedly.

[Joy Reid]

So, sir, if I could just say, if they're willing to break the law, that. And they're in the act with so much impunity, is this an agency that can even be reformed? It seems to me that I, structurally, structurally is so flawed that it would perhaps make more sense to end this agency rather than tinker with it. You see what I mean?

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

What I'm suggesting is that the type of changes that give us the best chance to end the violence now by putting the pressure on the Republicans, because, of course, anything that passes now is going to require Republican votes, just a handful in the House and in the Senate, to do the right thing for the American people. And giving state attorney generals, for instance, like Keith Ellison or Tish James, the ability to criminally investigate or prosecute ICE agents who break the law and engage in violence is perhaps one of the more immediate ways under the Trump administration. He's the president. Right now, Republicans control the House and the Senate. It's one of the most immediate ways that we can give the country the best chance to end the brutality and the violence that is being engaged in with impunity.

[Wajahat Ali]

Representative May, I'm going to give you some numbers. Just today it came out that ICE is using $38 billion to convert warehouses into camps. I'm going to call them concentration camps. Your colleague, Representative Raskin, went to one just yesterday in Maryland and said there were 60 people, 60 people, cramped like Sardis in one room, who only had access to one toilet. 65% of people taken by ICE had no convictions. That's from the Cato Institute, a right wing Institute. ICE has killed eight people this year alone that we know of. Two of them, Renee Nicole Goode and Alex Priddy. The latest polls came out this week. AP polls. Over 60% of Americans now disapprove of ICE. That means in three weeks it's gone from 30% to 60%. Now, if I may, I'm going to be a bit blunt here. Leaders lead, and what we've seen is people are impressionable. If you lead on something, people will follow. It seems the wind is behind your back for the first time ever. ICE has a history, CPP has a history of terrorizing black and brown communities. People are asking themselves, why are we, our taxpayer dollars, paying for masked, lawless men to terrorize our communities, kidnap people, take children and kill Americans? So I ask you. I'm doing a following up to Joy, because I want an answer to this. You said you want to reign in ice. I'm saying I'm talking about the long term. Now, why not lead and say abolish ice? Because what you're telling us is you want our taxpayer dollars to pay for a lawless, mass armed agency to continue terrorizing our cities. And I'm trying to figure out how you as a leader can be telling Americans that their taxpayer dollars should be going to ice.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

I don't understand anything that you just said when I spoke English. I don't understand anything that you've just said to me when I've made clear that taxpayer dollars should be used to make life more affordable for the American people, not brutalize or kill them. That's the whole reason we're in this fight right now. That's the whole reason the DHS is getting ready to shut down. That's why you agree with me, Joy.

[Wajahat Ali]

Abolish ice.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

That is. Listen, I'm going to use the language that I want to use. You can use the language that you want to use. And the language that I'm using right now relates to these type of bold, meaningful, dramatic changes that are designed to save lives right now in communities that look like the ones that I represent. And that's the goal.

[Joy Reid]

So let me ask you this. Yeah. And I hear what you're saying.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Every single Democrat together in the House and in the Senate is what we're trying to do, to give us the best shot to win this fight right now while we're in the minority.

[Joy Reid]

My question, though, is more about if, let's say, Democrats do get back the majority. I think some of what people are looking for are what is your project 2027 right what will Democrats put on the table to say, give us power and we'll do X? What is on that list? Because I think if you give us power, we'll abolish. ICE was on that list. People would be incredibly enthusiastic about that if you said, right now we're gonna rein them in, but give us the power, we will get rid of this agency. Is that something that Democrats are willing to coalesce around saying we will just end it, period?

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

I think for the last 14 months, we've continued to win elections. And we've won elections for a wide variety of reasons, including in deep red places like Louisiana, Florida and Texas, as has been the case most recently, as well as in blue states or purple states like New York, like Virginia and like New Jersey. And the American people, I believe, want to see two things. An aggressive affordability agenda. How do we drive down the high cost of living as the mayor of New York City is trying to do, as the governor of New Jersey is trying to do, as the governor of Virginia are trying to do. And at the same time, of course, we have a responsibility to make sure that we are holding the wrong doers accountable in every possible way. And of course, that effort is going to be led by a chair of the Judiciary Committee, Jamie Raskin, a chair of the Oversight Committee like Robert Garcia, a chair of the Homeland Security Committee like Benny Thompson. And we, of course, are prepared to do it in the way that we have always been when it comes to exposing the extremism on the other side and making sure that these people understand they're not just going to be able to behave with impunity now and think there are going to be no consequences moving forward.

[Joy Reid]

We have. I think we were out of time with you, but I have one last question. Do you have one last question? I have one last question. Do you? Because I want to make sure that.

[Wajahat Ali]

Well, I do have one question about accountability. And, you know, I'll put my cards on the table. I am against fascists and MAGA and Donald Trump, and I want Democrats to win, but I want the right Democrats to win. And I remember the YouGov poll that came out after the 2024 election said the main reason why Democrats stayed at home was their displeasure with the genocide that's happening in Gaza. And what we've seen is AIPAC. AIPAC now has spent $2 million attacking a moderate leaning Democrat, Tom Malinowski, a Democrat, in the special House election in New Jersey, 11th district. And we got a progressive Latina Representative Mejia, who won, who by the way, says abolish ice. My question for you. If we're looking for accountability, if you're looking for change, shouldn't Democrats stop taking money from AIPAC that has spent so much money against Democrats?

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Well, listen, everyone's gonna have to make their individual decision. My view as it relates to Democratic incumbents, first of all, is that I will continue to stand by every single one of them, whether that's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez on the one hand or the most conservative moderate Democrat on the other, who's sitting in the Trump district. And at all points in between. Right. That's what I'm gonna do as House Democratic leader. Now, in terms of how people individually fundraise, I'm proud of the fact that that my average contribution amongst the millions of dollars that I've been working hard to raise for my own reelection that I use to help elect Democrats in other parts of the country is $27 per contributor. That's my average contribution. That's probably the lowest in the Congress. And so now everyone is going to raise money from their own constituents in different ways, and their own constituents are going to have a variety of different perspectives on a variety of different issues. But make no mistake, there's a big difference between Democrats and Republicans, and we're seeing that right now. I know some people like to project otherwise how one can see the horrors of what has been inflicted on the American people since January 20th of last year and conclude otherwise or want to try to suggest that there's no difference in one's quality of life. When I go to Bedford Stuyvesant or Brownsville or East New York or Canarsie or the west end of Coney Island. People know that their life is being made marketedly worse because of who's in office right now. Both in the White House. In the House.

[Wajahat Ali]

Well, Representative, respectfully, are we determined to.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Do something about that?

[Wajahat Ali]

Just a quick follow up. So that means will you stop taking money from apec?

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

I'm going to continue to raise money in the same way that I've been raising it where the average contribution from millions of people across the country is $27 per contributor.

[Joy Reid]

We are out of time. I had more questions, but we have to get our next guest on. Thank you so much. Representative Hakeem Jeffries. Please come back because I have some more questions about gerrymandering and about the November election election protection, but I have kept our next guest waiting too long. Thank you very much, sir. Appreciate your time.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Look forward to it.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you. Let Me bring on Father Michael Flager, whose house I am in. And so I do not want to keep him any longer. I saw him backstage and I felt it would be rude to hold him off any longer. Father Flager, I want to get your thoughts on this. I don't know if you were able to hear Representative Jeffries, There is a big tension inside of the Democratic Party as to whether ICE should be reformed or gotten rid of. We know that the fight in Chicago has been incredibly brutal, where ICE officers have even shot law enforcement here in Chicago and where they've been brutal toward protesters as they have been all over the country. From your point of view, as somebody who's been an advocate, who's trying to protect people, who has a church that believes in immigration and kindness toward immigrants, what do you make of the reluctance of the people who are on. On all of our side to say that these kinds of agencies should not exist?

[Father Michael Flager]

I'm in agreement. I think about. ICE should be a ballist. I think that. I think one of the things that we've gotten too used to in this country is we want to make things a little better than they've been. That's not good enough. We've got. If we're going to whatever the original purpose @ice was supposed to be, I think we got to go back to ground zero and start it and let's build. If we say that that agency is necessary, let's define what it should be and then let's recreate it. But, you know, I think that's one of the problems. I was listening to some of the conversation, Joy, with my concerns in the Democratic Party, and I, you know, I pray and push and love and support the Democratic Party as much as I can. But I think the Democratic Party, if they're going to succeed, had to be bold. They cannot rule on what they've gone for a long time. And that's, again, we're better than them. You know, we're not as bad as them. People. That's not going to bring people to the polls. People want something. I think what we saw in New York with Mandani, you know, Mayor Mandani started with Democrats against him, Republicans against him, but he got the people behind him, and I think that was his success. And I would hope that we might have learned from that what Jasmine Crockett's doing in Texas. And I love Jasmine. We had her here at the church, have supported her, and I'm with her 100%. And if she can win because she's reaching out to a lot of disgruntled drunk people who were with him and now say he's not what they thought he was going to be. I think they are showing the Democrats of the best route forward and that is to be prophetic, that is to be bold, that is to be courageous. And I think there are untapped voters waiting for those kind of candidates to jump behind. I don't think a lot of the young people in particular that I deal with want to. Will get excited about better than or not as bad as somebody else.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. Because it feels like, you know, there is watch this sort of desire to preserve an agency that isn't in the Constitution, that didn't exist until 20, you know, 20, 25 years ago. But I, and I'm really not sure why Democrats, I guess they, they're worried that their red state members will lose because people in red states want there to be an ice.

[Wajahat Ali]

Yeah, I mean that was very disappointing. What I heard from Representative Jeffries, he got really testy with me. I just asked him a question and I tried to tell him the wind is behind his back, the people are with him. You got Republicans with him. You got white Trump voters literally saying, hey, these guys are terrorizing our streets. Representative Mejia, one in the centrist, affluent New Jersey alum of the district and she's openly about Abolishai's Joy. I want to ask you this question, Father, if I may, because it's important to me. I think I'm outing Joy, but she's outed herself. She believes in God. I'm a Muslim. I believe in God. Safe space. Safe space. I went to an all boys Jesuit Catholic high school, Bellarmine, where I was taught by Jesuits and they told me the motto was meant for others, faith through service. And I always tell progressives there is a massive weakness in that you're seeding the religious ground and moral language to the religious right. Every single movement towards social justice in America, you've had to have faith leaders. Mlk, Malcolm X. Right. Can you talk to us about the importance of religious people, religious clergy being out in the front in this moment and reclaiming specifically for white Christians and Catholics, Jesus as a mascot, not of white nationalism, but as a mascot. Not a mascot, but a prophet of decency, righteousness and helping the poor and the refugees?

[Father Michael Flager]

Well, you know, this is a question I've been dealing with and wrestling with every place I've gone for the last six months is that we are seeing, first of all, the Christian right has hijacked Jesus and they have hijacked the Bible and they have redefined the entire Christian movement. And I think they've been able to successfully do that because the faith communities have become so weak and we've turned in on ourselves. We are supposed to be the moral center. We're supposed to be the moral voice. We're supposed to be the conscience of America. And frankly, I think that the. The. Both Jewish, Christian and Muslim have been so worried about being politically correct and saying the prayer for benediction and the opening prayer for Pharaoh's prayer breakfasts and prayer counters that we have lost our credibility. And I think I was saying to Joy earlier, I think we're at a crossroads. I think if. If the faith community, which I keep saying what we are in right now is an enormous opportunity. All the evil, all the wickedness, all the. The. The. The horrible stuff that's going on, this is an opportunity for the faith community to rise up strong and be who we were called to be. Not to build religion, not to build Catholicism, to build the kingdom of God, to remember that all of our holy books, the Torah, the Quran and the Bible, the foundation of it all is the care for the poor, the care for the woman, the care for. For those who are most vulnerable and most in need. That's our foundation. And if we do not step up now and become that, I believe organized religion will die and this. This re. A new thing will be born. And I pray it doesn't have to do that. Just like I pray that Democrats don't have to go through that to do that. But this is a moment for us to expose the hijacked of Christianity that Jesus they're talking about ain't Jesus, my friend. God, when he was alive, used to say, do whatever you want to do, but stop doing it in the name of Jesus. And what they are doing is. Is lying. But they are controlling the narrative out here because we're so quiet and we're so afraid. Afraid of losing a 501C3, afraid of being. Having our taxes and our churches investigated. Go investigate. Do whatever the hell you want to do. It's time for us to be the church and to be prophetic and not pathetic.

[Joy Reid]

And to that very point. Let me. Jason, if you could pull up D2, because people, I think, you know, with Don Lemon's indictment, with these other eight people, these nine people that were in Minneapolis, people keep forgetting why that particular church was being protested. And Jason, let me know when you've got it, because this is Joe Rigney. He's the person who used to live for 18 years in Minneapolis, who actually was a co founder of that church, which had an ICE agent as a lay pastor. That's the reason that that church was targeted. If he could, let's just play a bit of what Joe Rigney has had to say about compassion. Do you have it, Jason? Oh, we don't have it. Okay. We don't have it yet. I'll just, I will summarize it for you. He said that the left has tricked Christians into believing that they're supposed to be compassionate. And that state funded compassion toward the poor, meaning welfare for the poor, meaning caring for the poor through the state, is a trick that liberal theologians and that liberals have done to the church and that, that's what's wrong with the church. That's the guy whose church was protested in Minneapolis, Father Flager.

[Father Michael Flager]

And I wish I was there to have stormed in it with them because. But here is my problem. That's so much bigger joy than Mr. Reid. The problem is that there are not only people in churches who feel they're good Christians and they're racist and they're sexist and they're homophobic and they're all of the things that the scriptures are against. But they're in church and feel comfortable in it. The church should be the most dangerous place for people like that to be at. But they not only feel comfortable in the pews, but there are people who, in the pulpits, lay ministers and ordained pastors who feel comfortable in a church, preaching in a church, praying in a church with those kind of realities. How did that take place? And we wonder. We wonder why people are not coming to church or why so many young people have left the church because we've told them there's no reason here for you to come. If you have a conscience, if you have a moral center. Here it is.

[Wajahat Ali]

Older kind of policing and evaluating their actions. You want to be a compassionate person. Like for Christians, like, that's a command. Jesus said, be kind, be tender hearted, be kind, compassionate. Christ was compassionate. So you go, I want to be that. And then you say, not only that, I want to be known for that. Like, I want that to be a marker. Because Christ said, like, they'll know you by their love, by your love. They'll, this is your rep, like your reputation. You're representing Jesus and so you want to represent him well. So that's the kind of like the good impulse. I think what's happened in America and the west in general is that I think the left figured out how to hijack that and manipulate it. And it works a couple different ways. One is by constantly demanding that Christians demonstrate their compassion or in the upgraded language, their empathy as defined according to progressive standards. So what, what does compassion mean? It means you must support this generous welfare state. State funded compassion is the way that you show you're a compassionate person. I think this is what the Lutherans, for example, long before we got to this point, or the mainline denominations, this was their kind of progressive vision, was we exercise our compassion through state action. Christians are primed because they want to be compassionate, to go for it. And then if you don't, if you resist, you say, I don't know that this is actually the best way to show compassion to this group of people. I don't think this will actually help. I think this might actually enable certain kinds of destructive behaviors or something like that or, or this is going to be bad now. It's going to be your reputation on the line. Why are you a hater? Why are you a bigot? Why are you not compassionate? And then what happens is that Christians start to self police. So I think there's a lot of Christians who hear me say that and go, I don't have a little progressive on my shoulder. It's like, no you don't. You have a respectable Christian on your shoulder. You stay in that anything.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, I'm going to give you the last.

[Father Michael Flager]

Joy. He doesn't have a problem with those that came in to protest. He has a problem with Jesus. That's who he has a problem with. He should just admit that because the he is coming against everything the Jesus of the Gospels stood for. And I believe that Jesus would not have been in there protesting. He'd have been turning over tables and he had been with the group.

[Joy Reid]

Father Michael Flager, thank you so much. I am so excited to be in your church. It is such a beautiful sanctuary. If anybody is in Chicago, you must come. And I've got to come here for a mass. I haven't been Catholic since I was 6. My mom switched us to Methodist because the ceilings were lower and we used to make too much noise with the high ceilings. So then we became Baptist when I got older, so I went all the other way around. But I'll come back if it's church with you. Thank you so much, Father Flager, I appreciate you.

[Father Michael Flager]

Thank you. Bless you. Look forward to hearing you later.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you so much. And Wajahat Ali, my we are that we are officially Batman and Robin. I'm going to claim it in the Name of Jesus and Allah.

[Wajahat Ali]

That was fun.

[Joy Reid]

No.

[Wajahat Ali]

Thank you so much for inviting me. And also, I sent a message to neither your fantastic Muslim American producer because we have all the DI hires.

[Joy Reid]

So true.

[Wajahat Ali]

Because we do it well.

[Joy Reid]

Team. I got white and gay. I got. I got Muslim, I got women. I got met. We got everything. We got black, white, we got everything.

[Wajahat Ali]

No, but I told. I messaged her. And I want to say this. You know, I want to. It's your show. I'm Robin to your Batman. I apologize because I couldn't let Jeffries go, so I had to ask him that follow up. And I thought you had more time for your questions, so I wanted to.

[Joy Reid]

Apologize to you publicly. Listen, we'll ask him more questions. I think it was more important that you get that follow up in. You're an excellent journalist, among other things, and also a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you. My friend, Wanjahad Ali, everybody. Give him a round of applause. He is a great one. We've got one more hour of the Joy Reid show. We appreciate everybody for tuning in, but we want to also make sure that you support our sponsors who make this all possible. And this show is brought to you also by our friends at ZBiotics.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

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[Joy Reid]

The science behind your next great morning. So this year, I am absolutely focusing on small shifts that can make my life better, make my life easier, make me feel better physically. Because, listen, y', all, menopause is no joke. And things affect you differently when you get a little bit more seasoned. And so one of my little simple tricks for sort of hacking my system and my body if I do want to have my security, because, you know, I love my security, or my Prosecco and Saint Germain is I start with a prebiotic, a pre alcohol. And ZBiotics is the most scientifically sophisticated pre alcohol that there is that helps you reclaim your mornings. And let me just tell y' all quickly how it works when you drink. Alcohol gets converted into this toxic byproduct in your gut, and that buildup of that byproduct, not really dehydration, is what is responsible for those rough mornings the next morning. So what you want to do is you want to take a pre alcohol first, then have your security or whatever other cocktail you love, and then you will wake up feeling absolutely fabulous the next morning. Like nothing ever Happened Very, very important. It is what I do. It is my personal life hack. Hopefully you guys will try it too. And we love our friends at ZBiotics. So if you want to give it a try, go to zebiotics.com joy, you're going to get 15% off your first order and all you have to do to get that is to use Joy Joy at checkout. Plus it is backed by a 100% money backed guarantee. So zero risk subscriptions are also available if you want to use it for consistency. So just head to zbiotics.com joy and use the code joy at checkout for 15% off. All right. Welcome to hour two of the Joy Reach show. If you have not hit like or subscribe. What are you doing? Like, what are you waiting for? Go ahead and do that now so we can make sure that you stick with us and stay with us everywhere we go. We want you to go as well. We now want to introduce our host, our co host for the second half of the show and it is Tiffany Cross.

[Tiffany Cross]

Happy Valentine's Day, my love.

[Joy Reid]

Oh my gosh, it is so good to see you, even virtual Julie. So, so, so great to see you. First of all, I gotta ask, how you doing? How are you doing now that the book baby has been birthed and it is actually in the world, do you have more time? Are you able.

[Tiffany Cross]

No, no. I mean this so crazy because like I feel like we're so busy. You and I have a little trip coming up in a few days or so and I'm recording my audiobook. I am excited. You know Mahogany Books, the folks at Mahogany love them Black owned bookstore. They are exclusively offering a signed copy of Love Me A Letter to Black Women in a Toxic Country, Career and Relationship. So if you go to Mahogany Books and search for that book, I'll post it on my socials, please, so people can see. But you'll get an actual autograph copy. So now is like the promo. Joy and Joy has had multiple New York Times bestsellers. So you know how the whole process is. And I'm, I am being very type A and driving my publishers crazy. But the crazy thing is, Joy, everything happening right now, I just, I'm so eager for this book to be in the world. It drops May 5 this year, but it's available for pre order now. But it's every conversation you and I have. It's every conversation we have in the group chat. It's every conversation I overhear black women having. Everything from love. You know, we're in a Season of love right now, but also what we're going through in our careers, you know, as almost 400,000 black women are out of work. What we're going through in this country, that we've been named the enemy of this country, just kind of the disconnect that we're experiencing and centering our humanity at a time. I heard your wonderful conversation with Father Flager and Wajaha. I love you. I'm so sorry we didn't overlap, but great conversation. And I just. I feel like black women's humanity is our superpower, and I write about it that way. I censor that. And I just. There's nothing like being in the safety of our togetherness. So I wrote this book. Like, we are wrapped in the pages of the safety of our togetherness. So I'm excited for this hour to be on with you. I told you I sent you a video. This woman, Ms. Millicent, loves you. Yes, Ms. Millicent. If you're watching, I told Joy. I sent Ms. Millicent.

[Joy Reid]

She was fabulous. That video, it literally. It warmed my heart. She is so sweet. Ms. Millicent. Hey, Ms. Millicent. We're big enough.

[Tiffany Cross]

She watches you all the time. All the time, love.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Tiffany Cross]

I want to know how you're doing, Joy, before we just. Can I ask really quickly because you work so hard. And for the people who don't know our machete group chat, our Joy's friends, me and Jackie, like, everybody who knows Joy, we're always like, how can she rest? What can we do? Joy works hard. So everybody who tunes into this show, just know it is. It's on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, but it is a Sunday through Sunday job for Joy. And you're always traveling. People are always tugging at you for something. Everybody around you need you for something. You like walking through the airport. You make time and stop and talk to people. You're constantly like, you're writing, you know, your substack, all these things. So the people love you so much. So how are you doing? Really? Really, really.

[Joy Reid]

I am frazzled, exhausted, overwrought. I am on the verge of a crash out every moment. This country is in fascism, and I'm just like, I'm in fight. I feel like I'm in fight or flight all the time. You know what I mean? And it's like, once you get into it, it's like. And I also am, like, extremely adhd. So it's like I just start trying to fix it. I'm, like, slapping down everything and trying to fix this and fix that. And I think that just becomes a lifestyle, you know, And I think for a lot of women. And this is why I'm excited about your book. I'm very excited about it because I think we're all in that, right? Whether it's relationships or work, we're in fight or flight so much. Especially, like, in this phase of life where, you know, running a business and, you know, trying to get this show and this business off the ground and making sure that we're covering all bases. It's so funny. I used to spend so much time, Tiffany, on social media. My bosses hated it. Now I don't have time to post on social media. I'm like, I don't have time for that. And now I feel like I'm derelict in my social media. I'm like, oh, my God. I have to now go and make sure I take care of my folks on ig. I feel like I'm neglecting them. And so I'm spending so much time focusing on what I'm not doing that I'm, like, not satisfied with myself. You know, I'm very hard on myself. So, yeah, I mean, I'm type A, like, so I'm. Yeah.

[Tiffany Cross]

What is the thing if you. If you could get it, if the people around you could gift you something? In the perfect world, if you were writing this script, what is the thing that we could gift you that would give you some breathing room or that.

[Joy Reid]

You could even gift yourself a clone?

[Tiffany Cross]

Okay, I want to get on that.

[Joy Reid]

I need a clone. Like, I wish there was, like, I wish I could program, like, a robot that knows everything I know and knows what I have to do and so I don't have to tell the robot what to do. See, I'm not even. I'm not even pro AI, but I wish I could, like, program a robot that would do all the stuff that I can't have time to. I don't have time to do. And I wouldn't have to explain it to them because the thing is, like, the thing about trying to get help when people offer to help you is at first you have to explain to them what they. What needs to be done. And so by the time you've explained it, I'm like, let me just do it. You know what I mean? And so whether it's, like, grabbing elements or doing anything, by the time I say, this is what I want, I'm like, I'm halfway done doing it. And so a clone would be great. Strawberry me is one of our sponsors. I think I might use. I might have to sign up.

[Tiffany Cross]

Sign up. Well, what I hear you saying is capacity. You need more help, like for the show that you do. And you can build capacity by people liking and subscribing and sharing and telling everybody to watch the show. We're gonna get you to a million followers. People can help by voting for you for the NAACP Image Awards. All those little things of all the people that are tuning in now or later, those are the things that help. Those are the gifts that we give each other. We give each other as black women, but also as supporters of this show. And that builds capacity for you. So, I mean, I'm sure you asked for that, but I'm asking the viewers as well. You know, you get to a million followers and it's like, oh, now I can hire more producers. Now I can, you know, right? I can hire people and get these elements. I can travel the show. I can do some of the people people want to see you sit down and interview with. Like that can happen. You could do a show from la. So every little bit counts. And also Joy has a substack. So all of those things help elevate you. So. But you know, we love you and I hear for you, for whatever you need.

[Joy Reid]

This is why Tiffany is the sweetheart of the machetes. We love her so much and she's always looking out for, for all of us. And we're trying to look out for you because the other thing I need is I need love me to be a number one New York Times bestseller. So we are going to go back and tell our friends in the chat, they, first of all, they are in love with this book in our shop too. And whether you get it from Mahogany Books, which we totally, totally support, those folks at Mahogany Books are incredible. This is one of the most supportive entities that supports black booksellers. I'll also say DJ at Baldwin Books. Yes, I'll be bookseller and I know you're going to Baldwin. So we're going to do that little book tour. So when the book tour starts, you guys make sure that you find your face in the place. When Tiffany's in your city, go and see her. Because when you write a book, it is like giving birth, right? And what you want is in people to love this baby. It's like, I have this adorable child. I need you to see this baby and cuckoo over him. You know, that's what you want. And so that showing up to our book events, buying the book, pre ordering the Book buying multiple copies so you can give them as gifts. I love giving. Books are my favorite gift to give. I think they're the best gift.

[Tiffany Cross]

That's such an amazing gift. I give books all the time. Books that I love reading. I'm reading Tony at Random right now, a book about Toni Morrison at Random House. And I'm really enjoying it. But I, you know, when I like a book, I gift it. And I'm not one of those people that's like, I only read non fiction. Like, I love fiction books. So like some of my favorites, I read books two or three times sometimes and I love them. And it's a lot to ask people really to go out and spend $30 right now because it's a hard time, you know, And I'm asking people to do that. So when I was writing, as I know, when you were on air at MSNBC and you had a Daily show and you were also writing not just a New York Times bestseller, but a number one New York Times bestseller, a love story as well, about Medgar Murley Evers. I know the love that you poured into it, and we are blessed to have amazing writers. Adam Serwer, our dear friend at the Atlantic, Van Dunker, Keilani Cobb, Jamel Hill, Nicole Hannah Jones has a great piece out this month on Michael Harriet agitators. Michael Harriet. Michael Harriet, who we love. His book is on the New York Times bestseller for the time.

[Joy Reid]

Like, for the 67th time.

[Tiffany Cross]

It's just, I mean, it's amazing.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Cross]

So I tried to, When I was writing, like, I thought about that. I'm like, I'm asking people to spend money for this. I didn't have a ghostwriter. I wrote every word. And I thought about all the things that black women are going through from a love perspective, from personal, professional, just everything. And I, you know, you read things and people write a story where they're the hero in the story or it sounds filtered. I just, I had so much respect for people who would go out and spend money to buy this book. I did not do that. And I really tried to center black women, but I hope black men read it too.

[Joy Reid]

Y' all got mamas and sisters, cousins.

[Tiffany Cross]

And aunties and wives. Like, this is like, look, this is what we going through. And Joy is in the book. I write about Joy. And I wouldn't have had my show without Joy. Joy is going to. I have not talked to Joy about this yet, but I'm gonna make an announcement that Joy will be on the tour.

[Joy Reid]

Yes. Oh, no. I'm be There. Just tell me which city. You know, I'm gone. I'm ready.

[Tiffany Cross]

I don't want to do. I want to make sure. I'm prioritizing your rest first. So I want to do it on a day where you are rested and you don't have to travel. You know, I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for you, because if I say Tiffany Cross and Joy Reid are coming, I know Joy Reid is gonna pull a whole lot of people. Who's gonna come as a character.

[Joy Reid]

You're an army. Yes, we come as an army. We travel in packs. Let's talk a little bit about the media piece. First of all, by the way, if Room Raider was still doing Room Raider, that room is getting a 10. Let me just say right now, I'm literally. I'm trying not to just be shallow, but that room is a 10.

[Tiffany Cross]

We had a lovely evening in this room. A late, late evening in this room.

[Joy Reid]

For real. Absolutely gorgeous. It was me, you, Britt, and Karine and fabulous. We love Karina. Her book is awesome, too, by the way. Y' all can get her book as well. Let's talk about the way the media is. Is sort of breaking down in this moment. I feel like we are at a. We are at a crossroads in terms of the media, in terms of its credibility, but also in terms of the. The fear that the regime is trying to inject into it by indicting Don Lemon in Georgia for it. Your thoughts on the fact, you know, Don Lemon obviously pleaded not guilty, Georgia's pleading not guilty. None of these people are really guilty of a. But what are your thoughts on the tactic of particularly targeting Don?

[Tiffany Cross]

Well, it's very consistent, you know, since the second term of this regime. I have been reading a lot throughout history about what dictatorships look like, and from everybody from IDI Amin to Hitler to Muammar Gaddafi, I mean, that is a consistent tactic to attack and discredit the media. You were one of the first people to say it. There's a group of us who, long before it became in vogue, to say that Donald Trump is a bigot. Donald Trump is a white supremacist, remember, in 2015, and a fascist. This was controversial in 2015, to say I was a controversial guest. You know, it was always a slap on the wrist and, you know, make sure you're presenting and making white people comfortable, essentially. But we have been on the front lines of things like this. So this is why we wave our hands in the air and say, no, you guys, we reckon, recognize what this is, listen to black women, listen to black folks. We know what this is. And so when I see these things happening, I have to say, Joy, it's been pretty consistent. This wasn't. This isn't new. This has been happening for a long time. So it doesn't start with the arrest of Don Lemon. It starts with legacy media policing people like you and me. It starts with legacy media prioritizing voices that echo white supremacist message. It starts with normalizing MAGA cultist and presenting it like it should be a both sides discussion. I did CNN this week and you know, look, I know a lot of people have feelings about our friend Abby Phillips show, but I will say the guests that are on Abby show, you know, have whatever criticism you like, but they're not just on Abby show, right? They are on CNN throughout the day. And I think when you lend that kind of platform to those people, it. It makes it for. I think it degrades the credibility of networks. It's not just CNN either. Like, you see this all across legacy media. And so then when the administration comes out and they say, yes, we're going to arrest this person, well, you've already normalized people saying all it took was enough people to say, oh, no, they didn't just shoot Nicole. Nicole, Renee.

[Joy Reid]

Renee. Nicole.

[Tiffany Cross]

Good in the face. She was trying to run him over. Even though we all clearly saw that's not the case. It just took enough of them to say that. And then all of a sudden the media is like, okay, we're going to take that story that's happened time and again. And so by the time you get to the point where we're going to arrest Don Lemon, and then you give platforms to people defending the arrest of Don Lemon. And it makes me worry about you, to be honest, Joy, because you're also another favorite target of theirs. It's just been a gross failure. And so I think there's something beautiful, necessary, poetic even about you having this platform and other people and what happens when platforms like this democratize who has a voice. However, there are also nefarious actors who get to call themselves journalists, and they are not and have large platforms, mostly on the right. And they are misinformed and they're promoting misinformation, mal information disinformation, promoting AI imagery intentionally designed to target people who may not be as curious about what's on going, happening in the world. So it's one of those things that's really challenging. I do want to say, I love my brother, Don Lemon. We are all standing behind him. I think John is going to be exonerated. I think the judge is going to throw out this case. I, you know, if it escalates. I think they picked, you know, when black folks tell you you picked the right one today, you have in fact picked the wrong one. So I'm saying they pick the right one.

[Joy Reid]

Amen.

[Tiffany Cross]

Because it's just going to elevate his platform. It's giving him a voice of free people will not be handcuffed at this time. That was one of the things that Ms. Millicent said. Joy seems so joyful. Joy seems so free. She seems so happy. And I was like, Ms. Millison is not an illusion. Like she. Here you get to speak your truth without being filtered, without, you know, I mean, they didn't say this directly, but the notion was always, do not disrupt the comfort of white people. Not just white people. Don't disrupt the comfort of conservative and.

[Joy Reid]

Of powerful people and of powerful people. That's it. Let the powerful people have their way because you don't want to see the consequences that the powerful people could mete out to these corporations. Well, let me play something for you, Tiffany, before we bring our guest in. And Jason, this is E1, and this is one of the stories that is coming from outside of mainstream media about what this regime is doing.

[Wajahat Ali]

And ICE are built, are attempting to build a national network of warehouses for mass deportation of Americans. They want to build eight major warehouses holding up to many thousands of people and then 16 smaller sites, one of which is proposed in my district. And the national number is up to 80,000 people at any given time being put in mass detention camps, essentially, which is just outrageous. The cost of this, beyond the moral costs is massive. It's tens of billions of dollars. We immediately started a petition effort. We've had over now 25,000 people sign on. We've had local elected officials at every level and actually from both political parties say we do not want this here. At the macro level, the American people have seen what just played out, just the straight up murder and execution of American citizens and flatly and loudly and broadly rejected that as just un American. A lot of the Republican concerns have only been centered on the logistical concerns, which are, which are valid.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

I mean, this is a village of.

[Wajahat Ali]

A few thousand people. Literally the number of detainees would be more than the population of this village. The other thing that's important here is when you look at who you follow the money to, who owns these sites, there's major corruption and graph that's Quite blatant. For example, the site in my district that's proposed is owned by one of Trump's multi billionaire donors who would directly financially benefit from this site being purchased and or used. In this way, it stands to benefit Trump's cronies. We have to have a secure border and safe communities. But that is not what this is about. This is just a power grab by the Trump administration and turning what was an agency focused on keeping us safe into one that's literally killing American citizens in our streets. I'm telling you, we are not going to let this happen in my district. I firmly believe we can stop it. My message to DHS is listen to the people. I mean, we've heard such resounding pushback from everybody in my community, across age and geography and even politics to say, we don't want this, we don't need this. So the message is stay out of the Hudson Valley, stay out of these other communities and start respecting the Constitution again.

[Joy Reid]

Let's bring in Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley of the great state of Massachusetts. And she's someone who has been a vocal proponent of the dignity of immigrants in this country and I'm sure has many, many thoughts on the idea that we have private concentration camps being erected throughout this country. Congresswoman, welcome.

[Tiffany Cross]

Hi.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

It's wonderful to be in virtual community with you sisters.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Tiffany Cross]

You look great. Congresswoman, always. Quickly, happy belated birthday to my fellow Aquarius sister.

[Joy Reid]

It's Aquarius season.

[Tiffany Cross]

It's our season. It's our season.

[Joy Reid]

I love it. I love. And you're a fashion icon and that is true. Those glasses are fire. We're going to not be shallow and talk about how gorgeous you are, but we want you to talk about ice. We had Congress, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries on Leader Hakeem Jeffries, and he was very, very reluctant to even sort of consider the idea of proposing abolishing ice. That seems to be something that the Democratic leadership is not comfortable with, even as a forward leaning plan, that if you get back power, this agency will go away. Is that kind of the way that you see it inside the caucus as well?

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, let me just say this, let me say how I see the issue, period. I've been in Congress now since 2018. I ran on a platform to abolish ICE. And you know, we were as pace setting black women often are, you know, accused of being hysterical and hyperbolic extremist, you know, radicals. And we're really just the canaries in the coal mine. I didn't need one more person to lose their life or have their human rights violated or their constitutional rights denied to know that ICE needs to be abolished. It's only been in existence since 2003 and it shouldn't be under the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration Enforcement. Anyway. It's only been existed since 2003. It is ROE. It is a racist. It is beyond reform. I did not believe the massed white militia of the KKK operating as judge, jury and executioner in the same way that ISIS is moving in broad daylight in our streets. The KKK cannot be reformed and neither can ice. And they have proven that although black and brown people will bear the brunt of the racial profiling and of the targeting and the surveillance and the violence, but this chaos, this terror is coming for everyone. If you are American, if you are an American citizen, if you were undocumented, if you are a child, if you are grown, if you are black, brown, Asian, lgbtq, white, you know, not even your wealth can inoculate you from this harm because it is just sowing chaos and terror. And it, they're a threat to everyone. So we'll always bear the brunt. But this chaos and this chair is coming for everyone. So when they say they're, you know, they're, they're taking their Metro surge operation out of Minnesota. Look, I was on the ground in Minnesota. Minnesota. And they told us that it was going to change a lot when it went from Bovino to Holman and the terror still existed. I do have to say that although the terror was rampant, so too was Minnesota an inspiring example of mutual aid, of communal organizing and resistance. And they're really a template for the type of infrastructure we all need to be standing up. But, but I digress, but the point is it was still going on. And so when they say now they're pulling back, we hope that's true, but it doesn't calm my spirit because they're just going somewhere else, right in Minnesota. I don't want them in Massachusetts. I don't want them anywhere. And then finally, do I have to say this, that there's so much emphasis on the terror occurring in our streets in broad day daylight. I don't want us to forget what's happening behind the wall in these detention facilities. And this is all driven by profit. So I always remind people, if you are outraged by mass incarceration, you should be similarly outraged by mass deportation or really mass kidnappings, because they're all incentivized by the same for profit system. The same way that Corporations benefit from locking up poor folks and black and brown folks. These same corporations benefit from the unlawful detainment of people in ICE detention facilities where human rights are being violated and people are dying. So this is also why I've been pushing in the Senate negotiations for my legislation, the Qualified Immunity Abolition act, to be a part of this because there must also there can never be justice. Because if there was justice, Savario Gonzalez, Keith Porter, Renee Good, Alex Preddy, they would all still be alive. But there must be accountability, y'.

[Joy Reid]

All.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

And if a doctor can be sued for malpractice, you're for negligence.

[Joy Reid]

Amen.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

When someone has killed your family member, murdered your neighbor in broad daylight, there should be restitution. These families deserve to be able to sue these federal agents.

[Joy Reid]

So agreed. Tiffany?

[Tiffany Cross]

Yeah, Congresswoman, let me ask you because you talked about the terror that was happening in Minneapolis and I share your same concerns. Tom Honan, when he came in, that was not a sigh of relief for anyone. He is a full throated election denier. He has said horrific things according to organization called Hate Watch and who monitor social media posts. He has met with the Proud Boys, at least one a member of the Proud Boys on several occasions. When he had his press conference this week, he said, I'm not going to get up here and say anybody here did anything wrong. They shot a mom in the face and a nurse in the back and they are having their sycophants go out and call that a successful mission. So when I think about where they might go next, I wonder if there is any oversight from Congress where they have to say, do you get any kind of information? Well, here's our next stop. Or here's where we're planning to go. Or is this all some sort of like midnight surprise where they just descend on the city, which I don't have to tell you, cost these local municipalities millions of dollars. 20 to 40% of children were not going to school in Minneapolis because they were so terrorized. And right now there are at least as of December anyway, there are at least 3,800 children in these detention centers that you talked about where there's rationed food, mothers say they can't get diapers, cream, that kind of thing. So I'm just curious, where might they take this Tara next? If you have any intel?

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Yeah, I mean nothing that I can, you know, substantiate. But I will say that there are a number of, you know, underground groups that we're all in close communication. Anytime we start to see an increased presence or uptick you know, vehicles in Mass suddenly being, you know, move, moved places, vans, you know, I mean, so, you know, populating. So I can say that, at least for Massachusetts, I believe that's true for other places. You know, certainly we know that. Places that are, you know, sanctuary cities that are very diverse. You know, my district, more than 40% is 40, more than 40% is foreign born. But, you know, again, we all feel a level of vulnerability because this is a fascist state. So, you know, I do have to give some good news, though. In the midst of this fascist state, if you had that my constituent Ramesa Ozturk, you know, the charges against her have been dismissed. You know, that was a long sojourn there and I was just talking with Don and saying, you know, these. I do believe that black journalists are especially being targeted because black folks bear the brunt of everything. But Ramesa Ozterk was disappeared on her way to Ramadan, a Turkish national with a student visa, all because she wrote an op ed centering the humanity of Palestinian people. So, I mean, again, these attacks on our constitutional rights, on freedom of speech, these attacks on the press, particularly on the black press, it is deeply disturbing. And yeah, we have, but we can't. Look, appeasement does not work. You know, Joy and Tiffany, I just want to commend you both because, you know, the vitriol, the death threats, you know, the attacks, none of it is new for you. It's, it's heightened, it's more acute, you know, in this climate. But you have not waned in your commitment to speak truth to power and to make sure that people are informed. I do want to see somebody popped up in there and said yes or no. Abolish eyes. Your good sister is not running from that question. I've answered it repeatedly. Yes, apologize. I ran on it in 2018 and that is still my position.

[Joy Reid]

Amen. Let me ask you this question. So among the things that Pam Bondi did manage to admit during her screamy, over the top, hysterical performance before the House Judiciary Committee, she did admit under Congressman Joan Guza's questioning, that she has hired at least one January 6th insurrectionist to work at the Justice Department, the Department of Homeland Security crew, the, the ice, CPB and uscis, they wouldn't answer as to whether they have hired former insurrectionists to work for those agencies, including maybe on the streets for ice. Impeachment of Donald Trump feels like a waste of time. He's been impeached twice. I, I think when people say it, my eyes kind of roll back into My head, because I'm like, you're never going to get 60, 67 votes to convict him. But Pam Bondi or Christy Nome, they seem to have been dishonest before Congress. They seem incompetent. Is there any thought, if Democrats take back the majority, that maybe one of those people ought to face impeachment?

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Yeah, those conversations are ongoing. And of course, I serve on the Committee on Oversight, you know, so, you know, Pam Bondi is already in contempt. I mean, she has not, you know, appeared. And so, you know, the list is long. You know, one of the reasons why I think it's so important that the subpoena power of the Committee on Oversight be respected, you know, is because we. There's going to be work that we're going to do on the other side of this, and I do believe we will get to the other side of the. Of it. So if that accountability does not happen, I don't know, y'. All, there's so much we got to do. We got to make sure fair elections. You know, the. The SAVE Act.

[Joy Reid]

You know, please talk about the. Can you just tell me. I feel like people don't understand how bad the sa.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

So we're just having to do all the things.

[Tiffany Cross]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joy Reid]

Can you just talk a bit about the SAVE act just for a moment? I'm sorry. I mean, it's. Tiffany, I'm gonna let you get a question in as well. I apologize. But the SAVE act thing is, is I find it to be a different, difficult one for Democrats because we keep just getting told over and over and over again how overwhelmingly Americans support voter ID at the polls. And. And those numbers are everywhere. So can you just explain in layperson's terms why the SAVE act is a problem, what is dangerous about it, and why people should be calling their senators right now since it's already passed the House?

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm hopeful there's no path in the Senate. But the problem is that we never know what they'll try to do with executive action because they really don't care about a legislative process in that way. The Save America Act. Talk about irony. That stands for Safeguarding Americans voter eligibility, and it is what Republicans love to do, which is to create a solution in search of a problem. It means to prevent non citizens from voting, which, by the way, is already against the law.

[Joy Reid]

Correct.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

There are already criminal penalties for that. And I don't know about y', all, but in this climate especially, are you aware of, you know, huge undocumented, you know, People who are looking to vote illegally and risk detainment or deportation. I mean, there are already criminal penalties. Okay? So this is a solution in search of a problem. If they really. They should be focused on saving y' all money, but they're not, because instead they cut your health care so they can bolster the money for ICE to use your taxpayer dollars to go out here and sow chaos and terror in the street streets. You're paying for this. Okay? So they should be saving you money because the rent is too damn high, groceries are too damn high, your heating bill, your utilities. But then they're actually focused on what you need them to do. They're just focused on this. These. This campaign, which is specifically voter suppression. It is just Jim Crow. It is not voter id. It is voter suppression. Let me tell you why. Because what. What they're doing is saying that you have to provide proof of citizenship and that suddenly, let's say you've done your due diligence, you register to vote, you show up at the polls, you have your driver's license, and they can say that's not sufficient. I need proof of citizenship. And maybe you don't have a passport, and now you have to incur the expense of $130 for a passport when 146 million people in this country don't have a passport. Or maybe you're one of the 69 million women whose birth certificates do not match your current name because you hyphenated it or you changed it after you were married. Maybe you can't immediately get to your birth certificate. What if you're in the military? This stands to make voting when we still have work to do to make voting more convenient. I want it to be a national holiday. I want you to be able to register same day, right? We've made great strides with mail in voting. But did you see what they just did on the. They changing the rules on the postmark. So if you're like my Auntie Sharon and you go and you mail your ballot in the Friday before the election, they're actually changing the rules so they can postmark it whatever they want want. So when you look at all this together, ladies, and I think people are not seeing the full board because they are overwhelmed. They just see these things arbitrarily in isolation. Look at the whole board. They are unlawfully doing redistricting, which could stand to impact maybe 30 Congressional Black Caucus seats. They have passed what they're saying is a voter ID bill to stop non citizens from. From voting, which is Already criminal, you know. And so instead what that will do is create a burden on the voter to prove their citizenship to vote. And so what are a lot of people going to do? They're just not going to do it.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Cross]

So the legislation would be working as it's intended.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Exactly. So women, rural voters. Rural voters. Women, rural voters, military voters, people of color. It is just voter suppression, Jim Crow, pure and simple. And then again with this thing that they just snuck in around the postmark, which is going to be issue for everything from your tax refunds to, to your mail in ballot.

[Tiffany Cross]

Well, I just want to add quickly if I can join Congress, please. This, this is also a part of Donald Trump's power grab. He has been saying for weeks now, Congresswoman, that he wants to nationalize elections. Now, the Constitution is unambiguous about this. The President has no role in this. This is something that is run by the states. However, people who keep saying what the Constitution says, I have to say, I don't think this president gives a shit what the Constitution says. I mean, who cares about the emoluments clause? Who cares about birthright citizenship? He has run rambunctious over some of these rights. So that's something to be concerned about. Also, we still don't know why cash flow Patel's FBI was raiding the election offices of Fulton County. We still don't know why the dni, who has no domestic role, why the dni, former, your former colleague, Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, why she was on site. And furthermore, just this month, Steve Bannon, the President's former advisor, who served prison time as, of course, you know, Congresswoman, has said on his podcast repeatedly that they are going to have ICE located at polling stations during election seasons because, quote, they're not going to allow you to steal elections, which is also illegal. So even if the SAVE act doesn't pass, for somebody like me, who can be a bit of a doomsday, I'm concerned about the integrity of our elections as they stand now. And I'm just curious for you, as a member of Congress, how concerned are you? What is the thing keeping you up at night as midterms? I, I just, I wonder, you know, because people think, oh, wait till midterms. And I'm just thinking, I don't know, guys, I was worried about 28, I'm worried about 26.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Yeah, well, and also, and you know, I love it when you teach the people, you know, this, this journalist is going to do the homework and come with the receipts always. And Just give you all the facts. And I, I'm so grateful for that. And I wanted to add and eat it to that, which is. And remember when they said we'll leave Minnesota if you give us your voting world?

[Tiffany Cross]

Right, right.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

I mean, so again, you know, the one thing you have to say about them that remains true is that they always telegraph their punch. Actually not that many surprises. I mean, whether you're talking about Project 2025 or, or them telling on themselves, they say the quiet part out loud all the time. So it really is just about our readiness in the face of that. But of course I'm concerned about, you know, in a fascist state, the integrity of free and fair elections. You know, he's a dictator. They want a citizenry that's ignorant and uninformed, that's inactive, you know, and they definitely want their very. As a brother. Not the brother, but who came before the. In the Senate yesterday talking about white culture is.

[Tiffany Cross]

Oh yes, right.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

You know, so, you know, here we are all the forecasting of the Browning of America. Here we are. And so we're in the midst of a very aggressive backlash, white lash, you know, anti blackness on steroids and all the things. But I would say, Tiffany, still my response is we have to show up. Because if we surrender to the chilling effect and even the inconvenience of it all, we do so at our own peril. Like I said, history showing us that, that appeasement does not work. So if you're worried about integrity of free and fair elections, please sign up to be a poll worker.

[Joy Reid]

Amen.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

If you're worried about the integrity of free and fair elections, because we don't have to wait till midterms, Tiffany. We have elections that are happening right now, right now. Municipal elections, state houses, you know, so every single election action, you need to show up, you need to bring someone with you, you know, volunteer at the polls, support your, your secretaries of state, do all the things in most of these. We have the, you know, some of these circuit decisions will have the courts on our side. But I think why people are so daunted in this flood the zone is that the, the stressors and the threats are so imminent. And if our greatest tool is the rule of law to combat lawlessness, but that process is slow and so it's very frustrating for people. But I need people to know because the other thing a fascist wants you to think is that you're losing all the time. And that's not true.

[Joy Reid]

Amen. We are winning.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

And that is a testament to the the power of, of, of the movement and defiance. Because the only way to beat a dictator is with defiance. Those rallies, those no kings rallies, we send Doge running for the hills. Why have the Epstein files been mainstreamed, you know, into the discourse and something that people are demanding and calling the question for every day, that's because of the strength of survivors and everyday people. Why are we winning, you know, elections that people would not expect us Democrats to pick up because they've been plus up R or R or Trump seats Because people are not buying what this hostile fascist administration is selling. They know cares through the roof. They know that their utilities are through the roof. They know they're struggling and that's why they're trying to rig the system.

[Joy Reid]

Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley always speaking truth to power and we appreciate you. Please come back often. We have so many more questions. Questions. Thank you. Have a wonderful weekend and happy, happy birthday.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

Happy birthday. I love you. And truth to power. Oh, we love that sister. She is she's giving supermodel this morning. Well, before we head out of here because we want to do something fun before the end but before we get to the fun because we are going to get to Valentine's Day, I want to bring in our next guest and his name is Dr. Brian Kwoba. He is an associate professor of history and also the director of African and African American African American Studies at the University of Memphis. He's a new book out that is another of these hidden figures that people did not know about and need to learn more about. We're going to let him talk about that a little bit as well. But Dr. Koba, thank you for being here. I wanted you to come on because the University of Memphis was apparently displeased with the fact that I pointed out and Jason, if you have F1 there that they have have ended gotten rid of their multicultural Multicultural Studies.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Division or Multicultural affairs office.

[Joy Reid]

Multicultural Affairs. I'm sorry, Multicultural Affairs Department. And this piece that you see up there, and I chose the Fox affiliate on purpose, talked about the fact that they've shuttered all of their DEI programs at the university. I know that they did not have a, a department of African American Studies, but they did have, they do have a program. So can you just clarify specifically what is ending at the University of Memphis?

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Absolutely. And let me first just say thank you so much, Joy, for having me on the program. It was a pleasure to meet you finally in person when you came to Memphis for the book award last weekend. So I'm really grateful to be here.

[Joy Reid]

Sure.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

So, yeah. So what happened was just to give a little bit of context, the Tennessee state legislature passed a bill last year in May which basically outlawed DEI programs in state institutions. And because the University of Memphis is a public university, they responded to that legislation by suddenly, right on the eve of the beginning of classes last fall, literally the Friday before the start of classes, they summarily eliminated the Office of Multicultural Affairs. And this was an office in which the Black Student association was housed, the Muslim Student association was housed, the Stonewall Tigers, which is sort of like the LGBTQ student organization, was housed, and a number of others that served diverse populations. They had offices there. They had funding from the university, and all that was ended. They eliminated all the staff positions just at a stroke. And so it was a very devastating sort of, you know, sudden reality to be entering the fall semester with. But it also, I think, is an ominous portent. Right. Because there could be more cuts to come, especially when we're seeing other pieces of legislation. For example, SB 1838 in the Tennessee state legislature, which is a move to basically destroy tenure for. For faculty, which is one of the sort of bastions of protection for academic freedom. Right. Part of why I can speak more freely on Palestine or on this issue or on any. Any number of others is because I have tenure, which means it's harder to fire me. Right. And so if that's taken away, and it's crazy, because the legislation says stuff like they'll be able to take tenure away for curricular reasons, meaning if they don't like what you're teaching, they can strip you of tenure. So this is a massive assault on academic freedom. And unfortunately, it's kind of par for the course for not just Tennessee state legislature, but also the Trump administration, obviously at a federal level.

[Joy Reid]

Tiffany, I know you write a lot about the erasure and talk a lot about the erasure that we're seeing in terms of black history. What do you make of the fact that what apparently the university wasn't happy about was the implication that they had eliminated their black Studies department, which they didn't have, but rather what you just heard Dr. Kloba say, they didn't. Yeah. At all.

[Tiffany Cross]

First of all, Dr. Kloba, congratulations on your book. Please. And folks watching it, please go out and buy Dr. Kloba's book. When you go and support black writers, it's really readers who can save black writers, because it shows publishing houses, we like this content. We want to read it. So I will be buying a copy or two of your book. So congratulations there. But to your question, Joy, I mean, it's, it's predictable, not surprising at all. And particularly when you talk about the state bill around ending tenure. We remember Joy and our good friend Nicole Hannah Jones went through the same thing when the University of North Carolina took the highly unusual step, and I believe racist steps denied her tenure because they could not silence. So they instead tried to punish her for her voice for the 1619 Project. And so I appreciate that you have the freedom to speak out because you have tenure, which is the pinnacle in academia. It's a hard thing, particularly for black folks to get. I think we're seeing this, Dr. Cuomo, across many institutions. You know, there is, they are attacking at every forefront. I mean, it's hard. It's trying to catch confetti, trying to keep our wits about us as we see this, because this isn't the first time that we've seen them attack our educational institutions with trying to tailor the type of things that young minds are taught. This is going to happen in some places. You know, a lot of places are fighting it, but we've already seen this is happening in some places. Claudine Gay was the shortest, served the shortest amount of time as a, as president of Climate Harvard. What can we do? You know, I will say Nicole Hannah Jones has schools. Yeah, the schools that she has, freedom schools across the country. And that's really how black folks pre Brown v. Board, that's how we educated our own. Some would argue post Brown v. Board, it was dangerous, put the, put the mind of a black child in white hands who did not want to educate them. So I'm just curious as a member of academia, for my long winded question, and what can we do to help keep our folks informed, unfiltered on our history and what's happening today?

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Well, as you said, I mean, black history has always kind of been a somewhat subversive project. Right. And even though we do have some, something of a foothold in mainstream institutions, thanks to the black student movement, for example, of the 1960s, which forced, you know, universities, including Memphis State and so many others to adopt black studies or black history or, you know, these kinds of programs, I think it's, it's, I think maintaining an independent sort of space for these conversations and for this education and for this type of learning to happen is just crucial because there's nothing they can do at this point to stop us from convening our own, our own gatherings, our own reading groups, our own book clubs, to stop study you know, the history. They can't stop me from writing a book like this. Right. About one of the great sort of groundbreaking figures in the black radical tradition. We, I think we just have to stay independent and not dependent, you know, on the sort of mainstream spaces, even though we've made some gains there. And of course we should fight to defend them as much as we can. I worry that although we do have. Still have an African and American.

[Joy Reid]

African.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

African American studies program, I worry that, you know, that's going to come under attack. And so one of the things I've been doing for Black History Month, we just did an event with the Black Student association last week to talk about, you know, the history of the Black Student Association. The fact that there were. There was this mass movement of black students on college campuses throughout the 1960s which established these programs in the first place. Which means if they're going to try to get rid of them, we may want to return to that history and understand how we got them in the first place. Right. Especially given that there are some advantages to not being housed within the university. Right. I mean, the Black Student association did not start off as a university initiative. It was contained and constrained in particular ways as a university housed thing. And so I hope that we can go back to the roots of black studies, the roots of the black studies student movement, which was a very exciting and dynamic period, much like the Gaza solidarity encampments that we saw in 2024, which did so much to disrupt and sort of shake the boat, rock the boat in terms of university life and really show people another way of learning, another form of pedagogy, another sort of independent avenue for students to wake up and stand up and be counted and be heard.

[Joy Reid]

Before we let you go. Oh, sure.

[Tiffany Cross]

Only because when we have the Congresswoman on Before. Doctor. Dr. K. That's what the viewers keep calling you, Dr. K. Before we have the congresswoman on. And she was talking about there are all kind of elections happening right now, including state houses. And he. Dr. K, you talked about a Senate bill that is happening that's targeting tenure. So I just want to point out really quickly that is the prime example, not even planned on purpose that congresswoman was talking about, that these kind of elections matter deeply. And a majority of the state houses in this country are Republican run, as it is in Tennessee. And so that is a way that we have to, at a time where we feel so apathetic and disengaged and frustrated and unloved and unappreciated. This is a Time where we have to target some of those state and local elections, and even myself, I can do a better job at that. So I just wanted to shout that out.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

And this is Justin Pearson, by the way, those of you who love the. Justin.

[Tiffany Cross]

Yes.

[Joy Reid]

Justin Pearson's district. Before we let you go, because it is Black History Month, tell us who Hubert Harrison was. This is. I. I mean, I. I feel like I'm fairly well knowledgeable about. About history, but I did not. I'm not familiar with him, so please. And I'm excited to read your book as well. Who is this man?

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Thank you. I mean, in a nutshell, he's. He's one of the. The greatest and most influential black activists, thinkers, journalists, educators that you've never heard of. He influenced people like Marcus Garvey, W.E.B. du Bois, a Philip Randolph, that generation. But because Harrison was more radical than them, he basically got written out of history, which is why most people have never heard of him. And so, you know, I spent 12 years doing this labor of love and sacred ancestral reclamation to bring out this book and to. To tell the story of this figure who was so influential in his time and yet so marginalized, if not erased from our memory and sort of our conception of history, of Harlem, history, of Jim Crow era history. Harrison is a fascinating figure, multidimensional thinker and educator, someone who spoke on street corners to audiences large enough to block traffic on a whole range of different subjects in a kind of outdoor university, as many Harlemites used to call it. So, yeah, there's a lot to say about Harrison. I really want to encourage people to look at the book. And I'm on a book tour at the moment, so I may be coming soon to a city near you.

[Joy Reid]

Well, I love that. The book is Hubert Harrison, forbidden genius of black radicalism. And you know what we do, y'? All? We are a pro book show, and we're gonna put this book in the bookshop. So you guys are gonna. If you want to support this book along with Tiffany's book, you definitely want to pick it up. I'm excited to read it. I'm always looking for a new book to read, and I'm about to start Parable of the Sower. That's going to be my favorite book.

[Tiffany Cross]

It's so good.

[Joy Reid]

I know. It's crazy that I've never read it. I know. And I feel so, because I love sci fi. I love sci fi and stuff.

[Tiffany Cross]

But I'm Octavia Butler.

[Joy Reid]

That's my fiction book, Butler. And yours is going to be Especially because you signed it for me. So now that's like an incentive. So yours is going to be my. My nonfiction books. I'm really excited to read about Hubert Harrison. Thank you, Dr. Koba. Happy Black History Month. Thank you.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Happy Black History Month. And congrats again on the book award for Medgar Murley. It was a wonderful book, and I was. I was, you know, rooting for you all the way, even up to getting the award. So thank you.

[Joy Reid]

I appreciate that. Thank you so much. What a good brother.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Welcome.

[Joy Reid]

So much. I appreciate you. It was such a pleasure meeting him, Tiffany. He was so cool. He.

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm gonna read this book.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Oh, I know.

[Joy Reid]

And it's like. It's like of. It's like my kind of book. It's a nice, big size book, and it's what it is, like megar. It kind of aligns with it because this is somebody that people don't think about.

[Tiffany Cross]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

All the people, you know, he influenced them. It's an incredible, incredible thing. I love doing that. All right, before we go, because it is pre Valentine's Day, so I have.

[Tiffany Cross]

Two questions for you.

[Joy Reid]

First of all. Yes. What are you watching? I already know what you're watching because I started watching it, too.

[Tiffany Cross]

That's what I want to talk about.

[Joy Reid]

Let's talk about this. Pregame. This. This Game of Thrones. Pre.

[Tiffany Cross]

Okay.

[Joy Reid]

Do you have the night trailer? This is. Yes. 3. If you could just throw it up. I'm so excited about this. I just started it. Okay. The city. There's the trailer. You can talk over it. Tell me. Okay, tell me. Tell me.

[Tiffany Cross]

Joy. Now, you were supposed to start watching the show.

[Joy Reid]

I did.

[Tiffany Cross]

Okay. Okay.

[Joy Reid]

I did.

[Tiffany Cross]

Now we are four episodes in. There's a.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

This.

[Tiffany Cross]

This is a huge episode. The next episode is gonna be huge.

[Joy Reid]

Huge.

[Tiffany Cross]

Now, this is a Knight of Seven kingdoms. We are 100 years prior to Game of Thrones.

[Joy Reid]

Okay. Because they mentioned the Baratheon. So it's like, okay, I see the same families earlier. Got it.

[Tiffany Cross]

Houses that were. That you knew. Like, I'm so happy to be back in Westeros because all those houses come up and you. Yes, you will see Lionel Baratheon, who was, you know, the. The ancestor of King Baratheon. You see the Targaryens and who they were. And the difference. The key difference here is that we saw Game of Thrones through the highborn, through the high houses. And in this series, you are seeing. You're experiencing Westeros through the lowborn, those born in Flea Bottom, those, you know, just average people. In. In average neighborhoods who are excited when the high houses come to them. And it centers on Aegon, Targaryen and Sir Don, which is from George R.R. martin's novellas. And it. You know, Joy, I don't know if you've noticed this, and there's been a lot of writing about it, but shows are dumbing down their writing because people are like this. Not really watching television, which I'm like, we are raising a country of idiots. You guys, please.

[Joy Reid]

AI is breaking us. Oh, since it's breaking us, people can't even look things up anymore. It's like they go on Google. They don't even wait for the Google search. They just read the AI thing at the top. Half the time is wrong.

[Tiffany Cross]

Now, can you imagine watching Game of Thrones like this? You would not understand anything. It's complicated. So I love that George R.R. martin is like, no, we're not dumbing down anything. You're gonna pay attention. And people are. People are paying attention. This little boy who plays a Agon, it's just the most adorable story, but it's also complicated. It's also, you know, typical Westerosi world, and I just. I love it. Joy, I'm so excited for you to get caught up because I want to text you about it all the time. Black folks have gotten a hold of this series, and so you know how we do. All the foolishness is out there, all the podcast is out there, and Latan is talking about it. It is so good.

[Joy Reid]

This is gonna be so my Valentine's weekend project. I'm here in Chicago. I'm going home tomorrow, and I'm gonna be digging into episode two. I already watched episode one. I can't get past the fact that this dude pooped outside, and I just. That's it. I know. I couldn't get past. I really could.

[Tiffany Cross]

Oh, my God.

[Joy Reid]

I'm like, do you have anything to wipe with what's happening now?

[Tiffany Cross]

You know, it was the Middle Ages, but that little boy, that little boy who plays egg, he is so adorable.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, he's so cute. I'm so excited. So y' all now have the Night of Seven Kingdoms. A Night at Seven Kingdoms. You guys must watch it. And if you guys watch it, we're going to do a catch up. So Tiffany and I were going to commit. Right? Okay. I'm already Tiffany stuff you.

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm committed.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, we're gonna commit. We're gonna figure out when we're gonna do it. Let everybody catch up. I'm on episode two. So you guys get caught up, because we want to do a Dem Thrones. We need a damn throne.

[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

Yes.

[Joy Reid]

We need to get Britney. Brittany Pnet Cunningham is getting pulled into this because she's trying to do it.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

Ask her is she watching?

[Tiffany Cross]

We need to. We need to.

[Joy Reid]

We all have to watch it. We're making this a group project. All right, you all. This is what we're doing. We are gonna watch it. Happy Valentine's Day to everyone. Do you have a Valentine's message for the chat before we go?

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

I do.

[Tiffany Cross]

I just want to say this is a time of love. You know, I wrote a book about love and black women and loving on black women. Everything we're going through right now is so exhausting, you guys. And so my ask a message. Valentine's Day Ask is in addition to all the love you're giving Joy, I would like to ask you all to show that same love to Sunny Hostin. Sunny, co host of the View, uniquely hold space at that table every week when there are conservative guests who come on. I know Alyssa Farah is going on maternity leave. I think, who's a conservative there? So I'm not sure what it will look like for her with, you know, conservatives coming on. So. And in this time, conservatives, you know, can mean, like, maga maniacal people. It could be maga cultists, like, who knows? So I just want to wrap our arms around Sunny, please, and say we're doing God's work because we need people like Sunny there. We need people. I mean, without Joy on the network, you look around and say, who are the conscious black women with the righteous indignation to stand in truth and combat people even when it puts our jobs at risk? And Sunny does that in service to truth and honesty every time. So please support Sunny. Let ABC know we support Sunny, and we just have a wrap our arms around her. So happy Valentine's Day to all the women who, you know, are going through the same that we go through, but you're going through it for your 9 to 5 and you're 6 to 10 and all the things in between or in your household with some man is getting on your nerves and unappreciative kids or whatever it is. We love you and self love. We're giving you love today. And give yourself some love, because black women got. We going through some things.

[Joy Reid]

We going through some things. And the book is Love Me. You're gonna want to get this book because, listen, it is a letter, a love letter. A love letter to black women in a toxic country, career and relationship. Tiffany Cross sending you love through the written word. And she is such a beautiful writer. You guys are going to love this book. We love you, Tiffany Cross. Thank you so much.

[Tiffany Cross]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, look, if this is our Jason, okay, these are surprises. I didn't know he was putting this up.

[Tiffany Cross]

Look at delay's valentine. That's sinners. That's at Michael Harriet.

[Joy Reid]

That is from when we were at contraband camp. Okay. This one, we were traveling somewhere.

[Tiffany Cross]

Oh, look at y' all look so cute.

[Joy Reid]

Happy Valentine's day. Jason.

[Tiffany Cross]

Look at fly look.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, I think I look like a little bit fly in that one.

[Tiffany Cross]

Y' all look a little. You look a lot of it fly. I see Jason with the the cord Mason in with the coat.

[Joy Reid]

Jason fashionable honey. Jason.

[Tiffany Cross]

I see I peek it I pe game many times and I will be.

[Joy Reid]

Home in time for Valentine's day. We are in separate cities tonight and Jason is running the wheels of steel, making sure this show comes off. And thank you Jason for putting in the pictures. I did not know you were going to do that. Happy Valentine's day. Jason Reed. Happy Valentine's day to everyone.

[Tiffany Cross]

Who are you most excited to see, Jason or Nala?

[Joy Reid]

Now you know Jason is on here. Let me say something I miss. I never thought I would see the day Nala drive me up of the wall. You guys, this is my dog. I but whenever I get home I'm so happy to see her and she's.

[Tiffany Cross]

So happy to see me.

[Joy Reid]

Now Jason's not gonna run up and jump off me like Nala. So if he made me run up real quick when I get home and.

[Tiffany Cross]

Be like, hey, they both gonna be there. They both gonna be there. Your valentine. You got two valentine.

[Joy Reid]

I got two valentines. And Nala by the way, you guys please wish her a happy birthday. Nala is officially four years old. She turned four years old. She's also Aquarius season honey. February Whitney day before my mother birthday. So I do believe my mother's spirit lives in Nala because she is right on my mama birthday. So mama Nala is four years old. You guys wish her a happy birthday and happy Valentine's day as well.

[Tiffany Cross]

Happy Valentine's day.

[Joy Reid]

Sin Happy Valentine's day, Jason. That was super sweet. Love you Jason. Love you chat. Love everybody. Thank you all very much. Please make sure you like and subscribe. Please hit share Keep supporting us and don't forget to get your black history month questions in. It is Blackaf history. Thejoyreadshow.com There is the email tiff we got Michael Coming in to do some black history facts with us. I love that. Ashley D. Baroness, Garrison Hayes, and Michael Harriet. That's coming up. So you guys get your stuff in. Get it in by the 16th, because at 16th is your deadline. So get in your questions. Any question. No question is too dumb. No question is too crazy.

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm sending in some questions, girl, send.

[Joy Reid]

In some questions and you can do them on video, too. Tiff used to do this on her show. I love the idea of, like, put a little camera in your face. Send us some video questions, too, and we'll make it famous. All right, y', all, I gotta go do this event. I appreciate everyone. Tiffany, you look beautiful. Julie, thank you so much. And look, next time that I'm in an event, I'm handing you this show. You do.

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm happy to feel it, but it was fun. This is so much fun doing this with you.

[Representative Hakeem Jeffries]

It's like.

[Joy Reid]

This is fun.

[Tiffany Cross]

Anyway, I love this.

[Joy Reid]

We need. And we have not. We need to start doing more stuff together because people miss us doing TV together, and we love doing it together. I love it. Next time we have you and watch and we'll all do it together.

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm down. I'm down for whatever you need, whenever you need, because we want you to get rest, too. So whenever you need me, you know I'm here.

[Joy Reid]

I love you, girl, and there's nothing you can do about it. Thank you, Michelle. Love you. All right, everybody, good night. Jason. Getting back to the basics.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Grassroot level Let me dig a little.

[Joy Reid]

Deeper with the shovel Plenty can't tell.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

The force from the trees that I'm.

[Joy Reid]

Hard to detect Like a black hole.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

In a dark injustice anywhere It's a threat to justice everywhere Let me make.

[Joy Reid]

This clear I got a bone to pick and I'll never fear the threat.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

Of poverty they don't want to talk about it they rap the party so I'm a real talk about it for sure.

[Joy Reid]

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[Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley]

What do I do? My refund, though.

[Joy Reid]

I'm freaking out.

[Dr. Brian Kwoba]

Don't worry.

[Tiffany Cross]

I can fix this.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

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[Joy Reid]

I'm so relieved.

[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

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[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

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[Wajahat Ali]

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[Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal]

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