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- [00:05]
A
Okay. Hey, Happy Friday. What is it? T. Tgif. Tgif, everybody. Welcome to the Joy beach show. We made it. We made it to Friday, everybody. Thank you for being here. Hello to everyone in the chat. Hello to everybody on YouTube as well as the stack substack. Thank you all for being here as well as everyone who's listening on wherever you get your podcast. We appreciate each and every one of you. A reminder that at the end of this two hour show, we're going to do one more hour just for our team TJRS members. I've noticed our follower count was ticking up today at a little rapid pace. People trying to get in the fam so that they can be part of the live chat. So that's going to happen at 8pm just to remind you guys of that. Also want to don't forget to vote for us in the NAACP Image Awards. You don't want to forget about that. We are nominated for an NAACP Image Awards. It is a People's Choice award, meaning everyone can vote. Vote for me. I'll set you free. There is a little QR code if you want to use that to vote. Or you can just go on the link we're going to put in the description at the end of the show so that we can let you guys come in and vote. So we appreciate everyone who has voted already. And if you haven't voted yet, what you waiting on? Speaking. Speaking of awards, I'm sure you've heard by now that Trump finally got his Nobel Peace Prize. Well, not his Nobel Peace Prize. He actually got someone else's Nobel Peace Prize. But hey, Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado, who might be the thirstiest person on earth, please take our oil. You can have anything you want. You can have all our minerals. Just take it. You can own the country. We'll rename the country Trump. Just please, please, please, let's let me become the president. She arrived at the White House this week with a gift. A gift for Herr trump. Yes, her 2025 Nobel Peace Prize. I have to say this is truly one of the stupidest things that I personally have seen an international leader do. I'm being honest. I think it's the ultimate suck up. Right? Trump likes to get things. But what she's clearly doing is, yes, she's trying to suck up to Trump in every way she can think of. And this is the thing he likes the most is awards to try to get the US to install her as the new president of Venezuela. Maybe forgetting that the whole Maduro regime is still in charge. They're still there. It's just Maduro and his wife are not there. The wife that we broke her hip. So Trump, when he got the award, of course he accepted it like he was getting this great honor because he's a thirsty little bitch. He actually switched once she gave him the award that he's always wanted. For years and years and years since Obama got it, he's been coveting the Nobel Peace Prize for himself. He switched from saying she's not respected enough to do the job of being president of Venezuela to suddenly calling her a wonderful woman. Wonderful woman. I'm meeting with a wonderful woman. Now he's changed his total vibe on her. However, the Nobel committee had their own thoughts. Per People magazine, on Friday, January 16, the Nobel Committee shared a news release titled the Nobel Prize and the Laureate are Inseparable, in which it indirectly addressed Machado's decision to hand over the Peace prize medal to someone whom the committee initially passed over for the honor. In the statement, the committee said that while the medal and diploma that a laureate receives with the honor are physical mementos of their achievement, the prize itself, the honor and the recognition remains inseparably linked to the person or organization designated as the laureate by the Norwegian Nobel Committee. Regardless of what may happen to the medal, the diploma, or the prize money, it is and remains the original laureate who is recorded in history as the recipient of the prize. The statement clarified, even if the medal or diploma later comes into someone else's possession, this does not alter who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Donald, end quote. In response, Jimmy Kimmel. Comedian Jimmy Kimmel has offered Donald Trump his Daytime Emmy or his Webby or his Writers Guild Award. He even offered his Sole Train Award for White Person of the Year. If Donald Trump would just leave Minnesota alone, if he'd pull the shock troops out of Minnesota, Kimmel says he'll give him all those awards in exchange. So we at the Joy Reid show feel like in that spirit, we're gonna join Jimmy Kimmel in making Donald Trump an offer we hope that he cannot confuse. I have here, for Donald Trump's consideration, an NAACP Image Award. This is the one that we won for the readout. This is the one I won. Right before we got. Before I got fired, they awarded us. Here's another NAACP Image Award. This one is from Medgar and Merle, right? You could get this one. Oh, no. This one's also for the readout. I also have one for Mega and Merle. We have. We have a bunch of them. So you can get this. Donald Trump, we're gonna offer you this as well. I've got here. Sorry, I didn't mean to hit the mic. He don't even like black people. He can't get in. That's okay. No, he wants to be recognized. He wants the black selected. Here's an NABJ award. National association of Black Journalists. You don't like them either? Well, you know, we're gonna. We have to throw in some. Some stuff here. Oh, Donald Trump, he likes. He likes to design, you know, buildings and such. Let me put these awards here so you can see them. Here is a number 10 room rate reward. We got a 10 out of 10 on room rater. During the pandemic, you know, they were giving out awards for people who had, like a nice setup during the pandemic. We got that. Throw that in the kitty. I'll even throw in this. Totally made up. This was like a funny award that somebody, like a fan sent when we were at the readout where they just said MSNBC best news. Well, there is no MSNBC anymore, so this is like a collector's classic. Trump. I will offer you all of those things, Trump. Plus, I'll throw in medals. Remember, we gave Mamdani. Now, Mamdani is the only winner of the TJRSP prize, but we'll give you one, too, Donald. This one says first place. These were the ones we didn't pick. We sort of threw them aside because we thought the one we gave mom Donnie was better. They're each worth about seven bucks, but that's okay. Trump will give you that. And we'll give you this, too. This one says gold. This is your favorite word, Donald. We'll give you all of these things. All of these things. You can have all of them if you will just resign from office today. Leave office and expatriate yourself. Leave the country. Leave the country for good. And take your grifting family with you if you will. Leave the country, Donald Trump, resign from office. Go to Qatar or go to the Saudi Arabia. The Saudi. If they'll take you, go to Russia. Go wherever you wanna go. Just leave us alone. Leave the country and take your grifty family with you. You can have all of these prizes. So that's my offer. Could you do me a favor, ma'? Am? Could you move those shots? Those shots? I'm out of the shot. Let's get them out. I just want him to see it one more time. Donald, this is what you could have. An NAACP Image Award. Just put them Beside you, please. Yeah, get them out. I'm just. I'm just letting him know. Have those. We work too hard for those. We worked hard for him. But still, I mean, I feel like if we can save the country from Trump and we can make him go away, if we can get rid of the guy. Come on, Jimmy Kimmel's doing it. I feel like we should join in and try to help. I've done my share. The chat. I don't know. Chat. If you agree this is a fair trade. I've done my share. Meanwhile, from the sublimely stupid to the cruelly ridiculous, ICE is still terrorizing Minneapolis with more than 2,000 agents deployed there, stopping anyone with an accent.
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B
It's an honor to be with you. To celebrate 250th year since the United States maybe.
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A
No, no, no. Not that accent. Sorry. Not that accent. I mean, brown and black people with an accent. And the arrests are getting more and more insane. Remember this video that we showed you of indigenous tribal members getting detained by ice? Remember this? Okay, get your id.
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C
We're native.
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A
What are you doing?
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C
Stop.
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Just give id.
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C
Police.
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Can you help us?
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C
We're citizens.
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A
Bethel, get your id. So that was Jose Roberto Beto Ramirez who found himself with his auntie sitting in the back of a blacked out Ford suv. This is the latest story from ICT News. His hands cuffed behind his back as immigration agents mocked and teased him. Thursday morning, the 20 year old was forcibly detained by ICE agents despite being a United States citizen and a Red Lake Nation descendant. It had been less than 24 hours after immigration agents shot and killed a 37 year old mother on the south side of Minneapolis, near a historically significant neighborhood for indigenous peoples to be in community, sparking protests across the nation. Ramirez was on his way to his aunt Shantia Sosa Clara's house in Crystal, Minnesota from McDonald's when he noticed he was being tailed by a blacked out suv. With Renee Goode's death in the back of his mind, he began to panic. Filled with anxiety, he called his aunt for advice. She told him to pull over at a nearby grocery store and wait for her in the Hy Vee grocery store parking lot. A video from Sosa Clara's Facebook shows agents striking Ramirez multiple times on his head and face and dragging him out of his aunt's vehicle. Now that apparently was not an isolated incident. I want you to take a look at this letter from the head of the Ogallala Sioux tribe in South Dakota regarding three of their tribal members who were detained by ICE in Minnesota last week and reading from the Associated Press. This story to me is absolutely insane. The president of the Ogallala Sioux Tribe in South Dakota on Tuesday called for the immediate release of tribal members who were detained at a homeless encampment by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents in Minnesota last week. Three of the four Oglala Sioux tribe members who were arrested in Minneapolis on Friday have been transferred to an ICE facility at Fort Snelling. President Frank Starr comes out. Frank Starr comes out. That's his name. Said in a statement released with a memorandum sent to federal immigration authorities. And this is the quote, the Oglala Sioux Tribe's memorandum makes clear that tribal citizens are not aliens and are categorically outside of immigration jurisdiction. Starr comes out said enrolled tribal members are citizens of the United States by statute and citizens of the Oglala Sioux Nation by treaty. Details about the circumstances that led to the detention were unclear. In the memorandum sent to the Department of Homeland Security, Secretary Christino said that when tribal nation members reached out to the agency, it was provided with just a list of names of the men. Homeland Security refused to release more information than that unless the tribe. And this is the important part, they wouldn't release more information about these detained Ogallala Sioux Nation tribal members unless the tribe itself entered into an immigration agreement with ice. They want them to enter into an immigration agreement that will allow them to enter the Ogallala Sioux Nation's tribal lands and search for undocumented people and detain even indigenous people. These are European colonizer descendants wanting an agreement with the tribal nation to snatch their people, too. That's crazy. These three members weren't homeless. They were living under a bridge in Minneapolis, which is bad enough. One of them has been released from detention. In the press release, the leader of the Oglala Sioux Nation demanded their release and said, there will be no such agreement. That's what the letter that I just showed you said. We don't do agreements. They said, we don't make agreements like that. Our members are citizens. Fort Snelling, the place where they are holding them, has a troubling history for indigenous people. It was the first military outpost in the area, and Dakota people were held prisoner there during the Dakota War of 1862, an armed conflict between the US and Native Americans. So this is a place with incredibly painful history for these people. And they're dragging three members of that nation to Fort Snelling and holding them there as if they are, quote, illegal. They're here illegally. This is their land. That everyone here is living on. I mean, could there be anything crazier than detaining Native Americans, tribal members, the people whose land we're literally living on and effectively declaring their presence to be illegal anywhere? Oh, and it doesn't stop there. As we discussed in Wednesday's show, in order to juice their numbers and change the complexion of the story, literally. Following the shooting death of Renee Nicole Wood, ICE is targeting black Minnesotans. Now I want you all to check. Harrowing story courtesy of ABC News. More about another dangerous incident involving ice. A family says three of their children, including a single six month old, were hospitalized after agents reportedly fired tear gas at their vehicle. Destiny Jackson says they were on their way home from a basketball game when gas grenade set off the airbags, trapping them inside. As gas filled the car after people nearby helped open the doors, she says they realized their infant had stopped breathing. Destiny says she had to perform CPR to revive her own child. Me getting my baby, having to get my baby like, like mouth to mouth.
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C
I thought I was dying, honestly.
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A
And the way I felt, I could imagine how my kids felt because I'm a full blown grown adult.
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C
I just knew that it was even worse for them.
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A
And late Thursday night, a federal judge in Minnesota ordered the release of a Liberian man four days after heavily armed agents were seen using a battering ram to enter his home. The judge said in his ruling that his fourth amendment rights against unlawful lawful search and seizure were violated. Garrison Gibson was in his home with his wife and 9 year old daughter when he was arrested. He's being held at an immigration center, according to the Associated Press. So that of course you'll recall that video, remember the video of the, of the woman who was outside screaming after and showing the paper that they handed her after they took her husband away. That's the rest of that story. They busted in that couple, that family's home, dragged off the husband. You see they're changing the complexion of who they're targeting to try to trigger the Insurrection Act. That is what Donald Trump, he's casually chatting down with reporters about using the Insurrection act, claiming all the presidents do it. And hell, maybe not just using it in Minnesota, maybe around the country and putting us all under martial law, especially ahead of that election. And according to the Intercept, things at Homeland Security land are getting very literal. Quoting the Intercept here. Less than two days after Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent Jonathan Ross fatally shot Renee Good in Minneapolis during a controversial enforcement operation, the Department of Homeland Security's official Instagram account made a recruitment post proclaiming we'll have Our Home Again, attaching a song of the same name by Pine Tree Riots. Popularized in neo Nazi spaces, the track features lines about reclaiming our home by blood or sweat, language often used in white nationalist calls for race war. The post is part of a growing trend in which the federal government openly embraces the visual language of white supremacy and pop culture cited in instances of racial violence. Over the past year, DHS and its component agencies leaned on mainstream pop music in their social media outreach, pairing enforcement footage with recognizable songs. The approach backfired repeatedly, and the department now appears to be leaning on niche, neo Nazi beloved music. Here's the quote. There was a sense of plausible deniability before, said Alice Marwick, director of research at Data and Security. Anti immigrant backers of Trump's Make America Great Again movement have long been known to spread extremist language in media, but in the past, those dog whistles were being done by supporters, she said. Now they're being done directly by the administration. The Department of Homeland Security did not immediately respond to the intercept in their request for comment. This is why you are seeing these massive protests around the country and they're not slowing down. This is why restaurants in Minnesota, if you can put this one up, we can pull the sound down, are saying, no ice. You cannot eat here. Why? They're denying them service in Minnesota and in Chicago, Illinois and all over the country. They're saying you can't come in here. And before you feel too sorry for the hungry boys in the masks who can't get food at restaurants that serve Mexican food and Corona, let's hear one of these ICE goons in their own words.
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D
I don't care what they told you.
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A
If you guys get in my way, I will arrest you. Sir, we're just observing. Please come.
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D
You're going to observe all you want.
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A
I am observing.
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B
Do you see me in the way I am back?
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A
You had anger issues as a kid, didn't you? Were your parents present?
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D
You should be ashamed of yourself, man.
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He is. I love my job. Thank you. You love your job. I can't believe I get paid for this. Really?
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D
I do this for free.
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C
Really?
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A
I get 200k. I'm a physician assistant. How long did you go to school for that?
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B
Over seven years.
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A
I went to high school. I made 200k.
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People regard me as double invaluable in society.
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A
What about you? Your. He would do it for free, brag that he's making $200,000 to do this. Now, it's not clear that they're getting $200,000, but there are $10,000 signing bonuses that some of these ICE officers are making more than $100,000. They only have to be trained for 47 days exactly in honor of Donald Trump. And they're out here with no training. They clearly don't know the Constitution. And they don't have to. They can just bust heads. Anybody who sounds these are called Kavanaugh stops because Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court says if the person looks and sounds Hispanic, you can stop them. If they look illegal to you, you can stop them. If they have an accent or they're in a place where people who are brown and maybe undocumented work, you can stop them. And they're enjoying themselves. They're not sorry they're doing it. They're not embarrassed. They're not upset about it. And their supporters aren't either. This is what they want. This is what they voted for. I want to take a quick break before we bring our guests in and note this episode of the Joy Read show is brought to you by Strawberry Me. And you know that feeling when a new year starts and you tell yourself, okay self, this is the year that work is going to be great. And then about two weeks later, you're already burned completely out again. Well, yes, we've all been there. Hello. But if work left you drained last year, today's sponsor, Strawberry Me can help you change that. Strawberry is a career coaching that gets to the real source of your burnout. Whether that's too much on your plate, no boundaries, hello, a tough manager, or just feeling totally disconnected from the work that you do. A coach helps you figure out what exactly is draining you, helps you build habits that protect your energy, redesign your day to day so it feels sustainable and helps you create a plan so that burnout doesn't come back by March. It's not therapy, but honestly, it's kind of like therapy for your career. And here's the good part. You can get matched with a coach who fits your personality and your goals in just a few short minutes. Sessions are flexible, private and made for real people with real jobs, not the fantasy version of you that always has it together. Now, if you're listening to this thinking, yeah, you know what, I'm burned out. Well, let this be your new year reset. Go to Strawberry Me Joy and try your first coaching session for 50% off. That is strawberry me Joy. Okay? So if you follow Rolanda Watts and remember her legendary talk show, you know that she is one of the funniest, coolest And Bubbliest sisters ever. Well, unfortunately, that changed a bit for a moment when she had her own personal encounter with. With ice.
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C
I really don't even know what to say.
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Just got out of a.
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C
A taxi and it was stopped by ice. My taxi was stopped by ice. And the poor guy said, this is the third time he's been stopped. And I played like I was sleep the whole time. And if I had to wake the.
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Up, I would have done it.
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C
My country disappeared. Sweet land of lips.
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A
It's really hard to watch that, but this is the reality. And when we say that this will eventually touch everyone, not just the people who think they're directly involved. This is what we mean. And joining me now is the great and glorious Rolanda Watts, Emmy award winning announcer for Sherry starring in Mind you'd business, plus a recurring role in Survival of the Thickest, comedian, author and talk show host, and alongside her, my forever machete sister friend award winning host, lawyer, social justice advocate and principal CEO of Impact Strategies, co creator of State of the People and co host of Native Land Pod. Angela Rye. Happy Friday, dear sisters. Thanks to both of you for being here. And Rolanda, I have to start with you because honestly, I think those of us who are so used to seeing you so happy and joyful and grateful and follow you on social media, and it kind of broke us all in a way when we saw that video. And I actually saw your second video before I saw that one, so I was like, oh, she's recovered from this. Then I saw that one and thought, oh, my God, I have to check on you first. And secondly, see if you wanted to come and talk about more. So if you care to please say more about that encounter.
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C
Yeah. First of all, Joy, you know I love you and I'm so honored to be here. And Angela, I'm a big fan of yours too. So I feel I'm in a good sister circle and I'm in a far better place than I was on Tuesday night. I had just finished a comedy show downtown, and just like every other New Yorker, I raised my hand, got a cab, and coming on home. And as we're pulling up in Harlem, you know, I'm in the backseat just scrolling, doing our stuff, and there's a stop, an ice stop, and. And I. All I can see are the mask and the guns and the radios and the vest. And I said, oh, my God, oh my God. And the cab driver said, just calm down, I got it, I got it. So he pulls up and I'm. No shame in my Game. I played possum. I closed my eyes and started praying. And I said, just be still. And no, just be still. The cab driver, who is my hero to this day, was very calm, cool, and collected, Gave the man his papers. The ICE agents were very firm, but, you know, they weren't violent at this point, not at. Not during my time. And the cab driver gave him stuff. And when we went away, I was like, oh, my God. And he said, this is my third time being stopped. And I'm thinking, here is this man trying to make a living, putting food on his table, and he's getting stopped all over the place. And he's either a citizen or he has his papers. And what was so odd and joy, you know, this area. My neighbor had called me earlier in the day and said, ICE is setting up posts all over our neighborhood. And I said, no. I said, you know, one of my neighbors said, there's a funeral. And something told me, take your passport, Rolanda. Take your passport. And I had my passport. But my fear was that if I reach for my passport, he might think I was reaching for trouble. I didn't know what the situation was with the cab driver. He could have started making a slow roll like. Like Renee Goode did. And if they started shooting or if he pulled me out, put me in a.
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A
In. In those.
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C
In a.
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A
You know, those.
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C
Those cow pens or whatever you call them. But I have never in my life felt terror like that. I. I'm, you know, in my sixth decade of my life, and I have never felt anything like that. And all I could think was to. I wanted to share my terror. I didn't want to wait till tomorrow and go hashtag about last night. I wanted you to see that.
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A
It was.
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C
It was terrible. It was terrible. And the thing that scares me most is these guys can do whatever they want with impunity, and they don't care about me. My name's Rolanda. They might hear Rolanda and think I'm a. You know, we don't know what's going on. Anything can happen at any time to anyone. Now I went home, and I was rattled. I had to take a mental health day. And I talked to Jesus, and God remembered my auntie Maya Angelou, who always said, you might feel defeat, but never be defeated. And these are perilous times, but they're not powerless times. And it also gave me the empathy to understand what some of our neighbors have to go through every single minute of the day. And I know my compassion and empathy got boosted. I know that I've been warning people, just so you're aware. But what really pained me and brought me to the deepest tears was that this is our country now. This is the reality. I mean, to read about it, hear about it, think it's happening over there is one thing. But when it happens to you, and it will happen to you, you will be touched by this. It was devastating. I, you know, I thank God I'm an artist and I'm a comedian. I'm taking this, I'm putting, you know, channeling my DL Hoogley and my Dave Chappelle and trying to put this in some purposeful language we can laugh about, but still thought provoking as well. These are not the same times. And I'm someone, I'm at an age, I grew up during Jim Crow. The early part of my life, I remember getting pins on my little sweater saying I couldn't go to the park because they don't allow blacks and Jews. I know what that's like. And for me to think I am living at a time where I'm going back there, this is unbelievable. And y' all know I don't do a lot of videos and all that stuff, and definitely not when I'm doing the Ugly Cry. But it was too important for me to make the point and to be very clear about the feelings. I was terrified.
- [27:02]
A
Terrified. And rightly so. I mean, Angela, if we could just say something, if you wouldn't mind just playing B2, but without the sound. Angela, I mean, we're in a world in which, if you didn't know any better, this video could look like Mogadishu in the 90s or a war torn country. It doesn't look like a country at peace. It looks like occupied cities with a regime, which is why I call it the regime. What do we make of this?
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B
Well, I think the first thing that we have to come to terms with, Joy, is a lot of folks are saying we have to rely on this thing. I'm just going to grab mine. This little thing here, you know, our constitution. But yet these folks, every single day we're watching them trample right over people's constitutional rights and the protections that are supposed to be in the four corners of that document. I think what we have to really be aware of in this moment is that even with our rights, when folks are moving like they are above the law, we are still at risk. And so, Rolanda, when I watched your video and you talked about pretending like you were asleep, I was mad. But at the same time, I Understood. You know, there are these, these, these moments that you find yourselves in and you're like, oh, I can just say our rights say we're supposed to be able to say I'm a US Citizen and they fall back. But we're at South African apartheid passbook status where we have to prove our citizenship. The people whose land they stole, they are detaining Native Americans. People in Indian country are being detained right now. So whether you are an American citizen or whether you actually were the true founders of this country, as we get ready to celebrate the 250th Declaration of Independence for whatever that's going to mean, what we have to understand is that our rights have significantly been rolled back. And what we have to rely upon is the judicial branch that is the last remaining branch. I haven't seen anything move through the legislative process other than on the local and state level. And they are not following those laws when they go into these communities. And we heard even on our show earlier this week, Sheriff for Philadelphia say that if they come to Philadelphia, they will be detained. Well, we haven't seen that happen yet. We're waiting for that to happen. We're waiting for cities and the governments that serve those cities to rise up and protect the rights of its citizens. But for whatever reason, Joy, we're really slow on the draw. And part of me, I hate to say this, but part of me is wondering if law enforcement in some of these cities isn't coordinating with federal law enforcement, isn't being slow on purpose. Right. We saw this man in Minnesota, six children, I believe he said, and a six month old who was non responsive after tear gas was thrown in the direction of their car. All of his children admitted to the hospital. They that is a black American man. So for all of us in our community, the people in our family members who are saying this is not their fight, please tell me when it becomes your fight. It's not your fight when It's Keith Porter Jr. It's not your fight when it's this man and his six kids. It's not your fight when they're banging in and bashing in the door of your neighbor. When does it become your fight? So we are at a different point, and I hate to say it, America has never lived up to its promises. Some of this was happening under other administrations. We just didn't have social media to report on it.
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A
Yeah. And to stay with you for just a moment, Angela, just from a legal standpoint, I mean, you know, I'm glad you mentioned Keith Porter. This was an off duty ICE agent. He was not on duty. And Keith Porter is not an immigration case. There was no order of removal. He's an American, a black American man. And yet this person, just because he's ice, decided to mount up like he was the police and attempt to detain this person for firing a gun in the air as so many people do on New Year's. That's not his job. People are being detained, indigenous people because they are sleeping in public because they're homeless. That's not ice's job. They seem to be behaving not like as police but as paramilitaries. Essentially being able to detain anyone for any reason or no reason at all.
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C
That's why I kept my eyes and my mouth shut, because y' all know me. I would have given him the side eye and chances are would have said now had that escalated, had there been problems, I would have pulled out my phone. I know the, the driver has a camera. The driver said he had it under control. I'm not getting in the way of him pro showing the cops what, showing the ICE people what he had. But I tell you, I wasn't looking to go viral. I was looking to go home.
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B
And that's a, it's a.
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C
And it's a, it's not about. I'm afraid I'll get a ticket, I'm afraid I'll get arrested. I'm afraid I'm going to get unalived.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And that's, that's a real possibility. We know that Keith Porter and Renee Good were not the first ICE victims to not make it home. And I think what we really have to contend, contend with in this moment is what is it going to take for the citizens to find the safety that their taxpayer dollars actually pay for. That's the thing that we have to contend with. Keith Porter was killed at in front of his apartment building right on New Year's Eve after celebrating New Year's by someone who acted as a vigilante. The reason why, Rolanda, I believe you felt trauma in your body is because this is all very familiar on an ancestral level for our people. We have borne witness to this. In prior years there were vigilantes that decided to chase our ancestors down and return them back to plantations. And on a more modern level, there was a vigilante that decided to take the law into his own hands and accost Trayvon Martin and kill him. His name is George Zimmerman. They have now hired the George Zimmerman's of the world. The proud boy founders of the world to go and lead this agency off of 47 days of training. They're not even properly trained. And God knows, five to six months for normal law enforcement isn't sufficient either. Otherwise we would never have all these issues.
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A
Yeah, but can I play for you all just a moment? Because, you know, Joe Rogan is getting a lot of attention for seeming to say that ICE is acting as the Gestapo. But I wanted to play the fuller context of what he said, because I think this is the problem. Right. Well, we're all here, and everyone in the chat is so outraged. There are a lot of people who are looking at these exact same images and saying they can see both sides.
- [33:31]
D
Here's Joe Rogan, because I see both perspectives. I see the perspective of the people that say, hey, there was an illegal program moving people in here to get votes, moving people in here to get congressional seats, and we've got to change that. We've got to take those people that got in and send them back to where they came from or do something, because if we don't, they're going to keep doing it. If they get in Office again in 2028, and it's going to accelerate, and you're going to have to take away some of the damage that's been done to a true democratic system because you've kind of hijacked it, and they kind of have. And then I can also see the point of view of the people that say, yeah, but you don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around, snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens. They just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to? So it's. It's more complicated than I think people want to admit. You know, people want to look at this as a black and white issue. You know, if you're a compassionate person or if you're a pragmatic person. And I don't think that's true. I think it's both.
- [34:39]
A
Rolanda. I didn't think there was both sides of the Gestapo, but apparently for some people.
- [34:45]
C
And that's a compassionate point of view. I think that's the whole problem in this nation is that we're lacking compassion and empathy. I mean, this has gotten to a point where it's not political lines. It's not. Or, you know, party lines. It's about, who are you as a person? Where is your heart? I mean, are you A human. Where is the humanity in all of this? And I think that's where the big problem is. And, and, and people seeing compassion going both ways. I'm sorry, I don't see compassion going both ways.
- [35:18]
A
You know, Angela, I, I feel like there's a joy.
- [35:20]
B
I gotta say this because you didn't play Joe Rogan, so we played part of the clip on the show. Thank you again for co hosting this week with us on the podcast. But I am so frustrated because all I saw was the clip. I didn't go and listen to the whole show. I very rarely, if ever, never probably one time have listened to Joe Rogan's whole show. And I gotta tell you, that is so remarkably disturbing. If this isn't black and white, I don't know. It is for him to question, to say that it is more complicated than that. I would love to know what congressional program he's referencing that has brought in people to vote from overseas for some congressional district. I know he's not talking about Ilhan, whose district is mostly white.
- [36:04]
A
Thank you.
- [36:04]
B
Please tell me who he's talking about. What facts are we relying on? Or is this like a AI video? Is this AI facts? What is this?
- [36:12]
A
I have to tell you, I listened to that after this morning. I was dropping off the dog at daycare. Yes, my dog goes to daycare. Don't judge me. It's. It's 2026 and she's spoiled and I'm driving. And I decided to listen to C span. They do that show where people can call in. And I was stunned by the number of people who. We see the Gestapo going door to door in places like Minneapolis. And they don't. They see the opposite. They're angry at the protesters. They're angry that anyone is trying to stop people from being kidnapped. This is what they voted for and this is what they want. A lot of Americans want, I will say the Trump disapproval rating, it is 60, 40. He is unpopular. It. You know, but they're 40% who want this. Ladies, that is.
- [37:00]
B
That's mind blowing to me. And I gotta say, you know, I, I heard recently of another poll, and I don't remember the exact stats, but they're a poll, there's a poll that is split on whether or not ICE is doing the right thing. So Joe Rogan is correct in saying there are some people who see this this way and some who see this in this other way. But I'm just asking people, before you tap into your fears, before you tap into the, the root of your Politics. Can you tap into your humanity? Can you tap into your, your compassion? My dad and I just did a speaking engagement earlier today and there was a young woman who was sobbing. A 20 year old who said she left California, came to Seattle with her family. She's helping her mom take care of her younger siblings. She's a first generation American and is terrified that she's doing the wrong thing by being a full time student and by making sure that she's working so she can put groceries on the table. Compassion. In that moment, Joy Rolanda says, let's make sure this young woman has enough money to get groceries for her family this weekend. You know, it's not. Let me call, let me call the woes on her. Let me call ICE on her and have them check her papers, see if they can get her out of here. I thought the focus was going to be on people who are committing crimes.
- [38:10]
C
Where are the criminals?
- [38:12]
B
Right? The drug dealers and the rapists. Oh, oops. It's the people in the Epstein file. Donald Trump.
- [38:17]
C
And they say immigrants, they're taking off the fat of the land. They're lazy, but you're going to go get them at their jobs. Explain that.
- [38:24]
A
Getting them, including the man who was driving, you.
- [38:30]
C
Would dream a yellow cab in New York City.
- [38:32]
A
Amen. I mean, and without the immigrants, there'd be no yellow cab. That's who's doing those jobs. I will note for all of the folks in the chat, there is a new CNN poll which I didn't cite yet, that does show majority of Americans say Trump is focused on the wrong things. 58% call his first, the first year of his second term a failure. So that is at least a good thing. I want to thank both of these amazing guests. Don't forget to check me out on Nativeland Pod because Native Land is amazing. Y' all should be subscribing to Nativeland podcast. I was a guest co host on it. It was so much fun. But please let everybody know where they can get Nativeland Pod. Angela Rye.
- [39:05]
B
Yes. Besides in my big old handle. I apologize, Joy. That's up from when I do my live stream on Tuesdays. I was like texting. I'm like, I'm so sorry. This is, I don't know, promoting team effort. I'm grateful we're at Native Landpod on Instagram and we're on YouTube at Native Landpod and also substack at Native Landpod. So everywhere at Native Land Pod. Welcome home, y', all and thank you Joyful holding us down this week. Rolanda, thank you for being a living legend and for sharing your very vulnerable truth and story.
- [39:34]
C
Thank you.
- [39:35]
A
Where can we find you? Where can we see you next, Rolanda?
- [39:38]
C
Well, if you're around in Harlem tomorrow, you can come up to Comedy in Harlem where I will be spitting some jokes about this trust and believe.
- [39:46]
A
I'm gonna text you later because we coming.
- [39:49]
C
I'm turning this honey. I'm channeling Hilly and Chappelle and everybody.
- [39:54]
A
See you tomorrow. Thank you very much.
- [39:57]
C
Survival of the Thickets on Netflix and on Bounce tv. Mind your business. Two sitcoms also.
- [40:02]
A
There you go. Amen. We're gonna put all that also in the description of the show. Thank you, ladies. Much love. Appreciate you. Thank you. Love you right back. Thank you. All right, so let's go back real quick to the Associated Press. Troops from several European countries continue to arrive in Greenland on Thursday in a show of support for Denmark as talks among representatives of Denmark, Greenland and the United States highlighted fundamental disagreements with over the future of the Arctic island. The disagreements came into starker focus Thursday when the White House described plans for more talks with officials from Denmark and Greenland as, quote, technical talks on the acquisition agreement for the US to acquire Greenland. That is a far cry from the way that Danish Foreign Minister Lars Loch Rosmussen described it as a working group that would discuss ways to work through differences between the nations. And yet here is Uncle Dirty Diaper.
- [40:58]
D
I would, I would like to make.
- [40:59]
A
A deal, you know, the easy way. But if we don't do it the easy way, we're going to do it the hard way.
- [41:08]
D
And I'm a man. And by the way, I'm a fan.
- [41:09]
A
Of Denmark, too, I have to tell you. And you know, they've been very nice to me. I'm a big fan. But, you know, the fact that they had a boat land there 500 years ago doesn't mean that they own the land. I'm sure we had lots of boats go there also. But we need that because if you.
- [41:26]
D
Take a look outside of Greenland right now, there are Russian destroyers, there are Chinese destroyers, and bigger, there are Russian submarines all over the place.
- [41:36]
A
We're not going to have Russia or.
- [41:38]
D
China occupy Greenland, and that's what they're.
- [41:40]
A
Going to do if we don't. So we're going to be doing something with Greenland either the nice way or the more difficult way or the more difficult way. By the way, thank you, Karen stooks for the $99. We appreciate him. Yes, we do need to stand up. What is he talking About Politico reports that Thom Tillis, even, even the bewimpled Republicans are like, whoa, stop. They're pretending to have spines now. As a result, Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina predicted members on both sides of the aisle would lock arms and require congressional sign off. It became clear that Trump was preparing imminent military action. This is the peace president, right? If there was any sort of action that looked like the goal was actually landing in Greenland and doing an illegal taking, there'd be sufficient numbers here to pass a war powers resolution and withstand a veto, said Tillis. Representative Don Bacon of Nebraska went further, predicting that it would lead to impeachment and calling Trump's Greenland obsession, quote, the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, you know. Joining me now is former United States Ambassador to Denmark Rufus Gifford. He served as a senior aide to Presidents Obama, Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, and is a civic leader, public speaker, and an advocate for Democratic causes. Ambassador, thank you, Joy.
- [42:54]
D
It's very good to be with you.
- [42:55]
A
Thank you so much. Is this also the dumbest thing?
- [42:58]
D
Oh, my gosh. I really, I. It is the dumbest thing you could ever possibly imagine. It's clueless. But I think the hard part is that the fact of the matter is we have to take it seriously because he is who he is and he does what he does and the recklessness with. The recklessness with which he has engaged in this conversation. So we could talk about a million other issues, as I know you do, but on this issue, it's just profoundly ignorant and clueless as far as I'm concerned, and makes us all less safe, truly makes every single one of us in this country and, and I would argue in the west less safe.
- [43:35]
A
Let me throw up a map. I'm a big map fan, so I'm going to throw up a map. I have a globe in my office because I just think map is important, right? And I think a lot of the time we talk about issues without actually kind of seeing them geographically. This is Greenland. As you can see, the giant white bit in the middle of your screen, everyone who's watching you can see where it is. It's a big piece right next to the Arctic. And so I think that's important to see the geographical location of it. Think about a globe. This is flattening it out, so it's distorting the size of things a little bit, but you'll see that it's up near the Arctic. And so the reason Trump thinks we want to have it or need it is that it is in that part of the Arctic above Canada, et cetera, where he thinks Russia could get a foothold too close to our geographic location if they get in there. Is that the idea?
- [44:24]
D
It is the idea, but the argument is bogus. He uses a national security argument, Joy, which is essentially, and he said it over and over again the last couple of weeks, where he says that if we don't go in, Russia or China will go in. Well, there's three reasons why that's ridiculous. The first one is it misunderstands NATO. The Kingdom of Denmark is a NATO ally. So God forbid, if Russia were to go in and attack Greenland, what they call Article 5, which is this collective response, part of NATO would be compelled, would be invoked, and the entire alliance would be compelled to respond, which would mean that the United States of America, including the Greeks and the Spanish and the Italians and most of Europe would be compelled to respond as well. The second reason why it's ridiculous is that we used to have 1717 military bases on Greenland, Joy. We have scaled them back since the end of the Cold War. Republican and Democratic administrations alike, including Trump, won, and we have one left now. But if we wanted to build them back, we would be welcomed by the Danes and the Greenlanders. In fact, we have a treaty that says that we can essentially do whatever ever we want militarily on Greenland. The third thing, and this is where I think we're almost the most crazy and naive, is that anyone who tries to tell you that driving a stake through the heart of NATO, which is the best alliance, modern alliance, the world has ever seen, makes Americans safer, is fooling themselves. All fracturing NATO does is empower our adversaries around the world and make every single one of us, especially Americans left safe, less safe. So it's a crazy argument as far as I'm concerned.
- [46:00]
A
How seriously are your friends when you talk to folks overseas in our NATO allied countries? How seriously are they taking the possibility that the United States might actually deploy the military into Greenland in order to occupy it?
- [46:14]
D
Yeah, you know what? I think that it's, I mean, you saw this week, I don't know if you've seen this, that a number of our NATO allied countries are our best friends in the world, you know, are sending troops to Greenland as a show of unity and strength. And like the most depressing thing, and they sit as an American and who loves this relationship more than anything, is to say is to know that they are doing that because of an American threat. And that would have been unthinkable joy a year ago and certainly any, any time before that. And so the answer to your question is they are taking it seriously. When this first came up, I think there was a little bit of eye rolling that turned into, that, that is turned into sadness, I think being really feeling let down by their best ally in the world, the United States, a country that asked them to go fight in wars and they went alongside us and they fought and died. Danes lost more people per capita in Afghanistan than any country in the world. And that was at our request. And so now they're really angry. And you can't blame them. You can't blame them when they are, when they are disrespected, when they are lied about and, and, and when they are treated like they, they can be walked all over. And that's just not, you know, we've, my favorite word in the English language is trust. We've spent decades building trust with our best allies. And it's extraordinary the rate at which this president has eroded that trust. And that's gonna take a hell of a lot of work from a lot of us who care about this to try to build back in the years to come.
- [47:52]
A
But I mean, the build back part to me is the question in a lot of ways right now that the world has seen that this country is always one election away from electing a madman who's a megalomaniac and has territorial expansions that span from Panama to Venezuela to Greenland, that we can elect someone like that and then we'll elect them twice. I think it makes the country fundamentally untrustworthy because we as an electorate are untrustworthy. You can't trust us not to elect another nut to the White House. So does NATO even go forward the way it was ever again? Like, can it ever be rebuilt the way it was?
- [48:33]
D
I really do think you have to. I think your premise is exactly right. Right. So I served in the Obama, I was ambassador under the Obama administration. I worked for, for President Obama for 10 years. And the manner, the American brand pre Trump and then I worked for, in the Biden administration. And the way that our allies viewed us during the Biden administration was already with a bit of skepticism. No one really thought he was going to come back at this point. But there was that very fear that you just articulated that what if someone like him did come back again? Should we, they have put so much faith in us over the decades and will that ever, will we ever be the same? And I think, I think you're right that it's human though, right? I mean, if someone breaks your trust, if someone, some say how it takes a little bit of time to build, to build back that trust, you know, fool me, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. And I do think we're in that latter part of the part of the show me, fool me twice, shame on me is kind of where we are with our European allies at this point.
- [49:35]
A
And I think as somebody who worked as an ambassador for multiple Democratic presidents and you spent a lot of time obviously in that job talking to people around the world. I mean, if Germany elected another Hitler style leader, we'd say, oh, we would look sideways at Germany forever. Right? Here they go again. The United States got rid of Donald Trump, said saw what he did to the country, to our alliances, to NATO, the disrespectful way he treated the world and saw a million people die from COVID And then the American people said, yeah, let's have more of that. And that on top of knowing Project 2025 was coming. So it seems there's something fundamentally wrong with us as an electoral our country. There is a fascist core among our people. It's not just Trump. Trump is one person. There's a fascist core here. Right. And so the rest of the world now knows that. How do they deal with an America that's got 30 to 40% of people who are least fascist? Curious.
- [50:36]
D
It's such a good question. And you know, I was one of the chairs of the 24 Campaign, which you kind of mentioned that I and honestly on that campaign, certainly I thought every single day that the Americans would be the Americans, when it came down to it, would remember what 2016-2020 was like. And they would choose, regardless of every other, all of the other issues which are important to them, they would not choose to go back there. And I will say my faith has been shaken in a tremendous way. Like I think you're articulating, like so many of our friends are in who we are, like, what, what what? Who are we? And that's why this is the thing. It's all I can do when I think about this is think about speaking out as loudly as we possibly can at this moment in time and pushing back. And so that's why I speak out on this issue, which is very unique. But on every, any other that we can. And that's why I'm so grateful to be on your show and you're the platform that you're using on all of this because we got it. We got to do it. Everything is on the line, Joy. This is, everything is on the line. And, and we got to fight for it.
- [51:48]
A
For those who don't understand Greenland, I mean, it's a big piece of land with very few people on it, mostly indigenous people. It's about 60,000. It's very small in terms of population. Talk about what is Greenland, what is it like, who are the people there, what is the leadership like and what is its relationship indeed to Denmark?
- [52:05]
D
Yeah, so, and again, this is a unique. I've been there nine times. It's an amazing place. I mean, it is tiny. I mean, it's, it's, for population wise, it's tiny, but the largest island in the world. That map is distorted. What it is, is it's three times the size of Texas, which is how big it is. So it's still extremely large. It is mostly Inuit because of its colonial history with Denmark. There's a lot of Danish heritage amongst the population as well. What they are, is they are a self governing territory of Denmark. They still send, say they still send elected members to the parliament in Denmark, but they, they govern their home rule. They have what they call home rule, which essentially all the domestic issues, economic issues, trade, tourism, all that is managed locally, but foreign and national security policy is managed by, in, in Denmark, in Copenhagen. But I, I think what most people misunderstand about Greenland and the, the debate that we've been having in the last few weeks is people talk about Donald Trump as this deal maker, this businessman, this real estate executive who, who, who looks at something like Greenland as just something else that he can buy in a transaction. And I don't think what they get. When I hear people, I was on a TV show yesterday and somebody brought that up and I, I said, I, you can't imagine how offensive that is to native people and to the Greenlandic native people that they are, they are being talked about as people who can be bought and sold when what they are doing is want more autonomy and more independence. Last thing they want is to become a colony of a larger and more powerful country. They don't want to trade the United. Trade the United States for Denmark or the Denmark for the United States. And let's be clear, they also have a social safety net. They have, you know, universal healthcare. They have free education through college. They, you know, it's all, all of the things that Europeans have. And so the whole thing is just so grounded in false narratives. And that's why I try to set the record straight as much as I possibly can. So I appreciate you letting me do it.
- [54:13]
A
Absolutely. And if we can put up our distorted map up once again. And it's Google Maps as fault that that map is like it's a globe. And so just.
- [54:19]
D
Yeah, exactly.
- [54:20]
A
Being wrapped around a piece of circle. That's why it looks like that, guys. But there's Canada sitting right there between the United States and Greenland physically, and Alaska, obviously. There is some reporting. I was reading in some of the Canadian news yesterday that Canadians are saying if green, if this happens to Greenland, Trump will seriously come after Canada next. Do you. Are we looking at a world in which the United States could really pull a Hitler 1930s and attempt to invade our northern neighbor as well so that Donald Trump can expand America northward all the way to the Arctic Circle?
- [54:55]
D
Well, I think obviously he's shown his interest in that. He talked about it a lot at the beginning of his administration. I think he met a worthy adversary in Mark Carney when he was elected earlier this year. And I think that's earlier last year, which I think is a good thing, ultimately. I think what we got to do in this moment in time is make sure that this doesn't happen, and that's why I think Greenland is so important. One of the things that really has been a bit of a change, and I rarely, I rarely will defend what I believe is congressional cowardice, especially over the course of the last year. And I think it's profound and perhaps the biggest. The thing that drives me the most crazy since the beginning of the second Trump administration, but there have been a number of Republican members of Congress that have spoken out as you walk through, through at the beginning of this segment, and that's a good thing. And I do think the stakes need to be higher. I think what Don Bacon said about impeachment is exactly the kind of talk that Republicans need to be using right now. There are a couple of Republican senators right now in Copenhagen as and Thom Tillis and Lisa Murkowski. And look, I'm not saying that they get a Profile in Courage award right now, but the fact of the matter is I'll take anything to prevent some of these atrocities from actually occurring. And I do believe they would be atrocities.
- [56:09]
A
Oh, indeed. And not only atrocities against the people of Greenland, which of course it would be. But having united, you know, people, I think Donald Trump acts as if no one will resist, that he can just have troops show up just as he's doing in American cities, and everyone will lay down, people, fight back, America fighting back against his paramilitaries. Americans would die. Let's just be clear.
- [56:33]
D
Yes, I call it. I mean, I call Donald Trump's diplomacy, spoiled brat diplomacy, which is essentially screaming and yelling about something you want over and over again until, you know, people just say whatever, just take it kind of thing. And I think that's what we're seeing here, truly, because he can't articulate a reason why he wants Greenland. The national security arguments don't hold any water from people who know what they're talking about. The economic. You mean the rare earth mining stuff. Conversations are real. But we could do that right now with our best partners, right? So we could sit around a table with them and, and get it done. And so that's why, to me, this is just like, I want it now, I want it now. Give it to me. And that's not how the world works. And so I think he's going to lose this one. To answer your question about Canada, I think he's going to lose it. I think. But it's important to make sure that we understand the stakes.
- [57:25]
A
Well, for ambassador, he does that because he's got a touch of dementia. But that's me saying that, not you. I'm the rude one, not you. You're a perfectly nice guy. Former U.S. ambassador. Ambassador to Denmark. Please come back. Thank you very much.
- [57:37]
D
Thank you, Joy. Anytime.
- [57:38]
A
Thank you very much. Happy Friday. Well, there you have it. Donald Trump thinks he can scream and yell and maybe send US Troops into Greenland to try to take it away from Denmark. Ah, the peace president. Should we take out our awards again, Jason? Do we need, do we need to give them? Donald, Donald, do you need another medal? This one says gold. Come on, Donald, if you just shut the hell up. Give you gold. Welcome to our two of the Joy Reid Show. I want to thank you all for supporting this independent media venture. We really do appreciate you guys. It is. It has been a labor of love and it's hard to believe. The other day we were in a meeting and somebody was like, wow, have you guys been doing this for a year? We're like, no. Six months. Six. One, two, three, four, five, six. That's it. We're a brand new baby. We're a toddler, as it were. And we could not do any of this without our wonderful supporters, our chat friends, our folks on Substack, our folks on the podcast. We couldn't do it with any of you guys, nor could we do it without our wonderful sponsors. By the way, it being Friday, is anybody planning on going out after the TJRS private chat? Anybody Celebrations don't start with the clinking of glasses. They start with Zbiotics Pre Alcohol, a probiotic you take before your first drink so you can enjoy the night and and wake up ready. Zebiotics Pre Alcohol the science behind your next great morning yes indeed. This program is brought to you by Zebiotics, the pre alcohol probiotic drink that is designed to help you reclaim your mornings. Now I can tell you, as somebody who uses Zebiotics and recommends it to friends and family, that it is a great way to feel better and to land on your feet after a night out. Zebiotics was invented by PhD scientists to help you tackle those rough mornings after drinking. Now here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in your gut. Now that's a buildup. And this buildup of this byproduct, it's not dehydration, it's actually a buildup of that byproduct that is to blame for those rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces this enzyme, an enzyme that breaks down this byproduct. So just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Then drink responsibly and you'll feel your best in the morning. And look, I was on the fence about Prebiotics myself, but with menopause shifting my whole body into war against me mode, enjoying my little post show cocktail started taking me out, taking me to the woodshed in the morning. But since I gave pre alcohol a try drinking it before I mix my security. I'm telling you, what a difference. I wake up the next morning feeling fresh and ready to go. Remember how you felt after that New Year's Eve party? You can improve on that. So if you're ready to try it, go to zbiotics.com joy now you'll get 15% off your first order when you use Joy at checkout. Plus, it's backed by 100% money back guarantee, so there's really no risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. Remember to head to zbiotics.com joy and use the code joy at checkout for 15% off. Okay, let's have a listen to Tennessee Representative Democratic Tennessee Representative Steve Cohen as he perfectly explains ICE and Kristi Noem and ICE agent Jonathan Ross's hot mess.
- [60:52]
E
Came up to the car and reached in and grabbed inside and said, open up your car door. Get out of your car. He had no right to do it. And when she drove off, the man in front of her who shouldn't have been There. That was insane. He had his gun out almost before. Before she started to drive forward and it was clear she was turning to the right. This was an unjustified homicide in our country that we've all seen. And the administration jumps in and says we're going to attack this woman and call her a domestic terrorist. She's a victim who is not with us anymore. She's dead because an officer of the United States of America killed her. And it's been on video and we've seen our president, our vice president and Cruella Noem go after her as if she was some type of domestic terrorist. They've attacked her before, her body's in the ground. Any law enforcement community that I know of, certainly the Memphis Police Department, if an officer does a shooting, even if it's pretty clear the self defense, they are relieved of duty pending an investigation. This man has not been relieved of anything. He was sent to the hospital by the defense counsels that they have their attorney saying, cover your cya. And he went there to cya. When he was walking away from the scene and going call 91 1, he was walking like he was in the Olympics. He had no problem walking. And then they all jumped in their car and drove away and left the crime scene. On the front end they're directing traffic, telling her to get out of the car. He's telling her what to do and get out of the car. And whatever they were yelling and after she's shot and they see her bleeding there, they drive off. Law enforcement doesn't drive off when somebody has been shot and is possibly dying. They try to render aid. They split. That's not America. The administration looks as ice as our guys. And anybody they shoot is the enemy. The American public is not the enemy. They are not the enemy. And that's where they're coming from. This is a war against America and against due process and against justice.
- [62:49]
A
I yield back.
- [62:49]
D
The balance of my time yields back.
- [62:51]
A
Can I get a round of applause for Representative Steve Cohen of the great state of Tennessee. That was succinct and to the point. And I want to note that we actually have video watching agent Jonathan Ross walk away, almost flip off the crowd telling people, move along, move along. He didn't look hurt to me. And yet CBS News, CBS News citing anonymous sources, wonder who those anonymous sources are claiming that Jonathan Ross suffered internal bleeding after fatally shooting 37 year old Renee Nicole Good. CBS went ahead and reported that despite skepticism inside CBS from CBS News staff. But guess who approved going with that story anyway? Bari Weiss, the woman who's now under fire inside the CBS News organization for giving Donald Trump a little cheek kiss when he came in to do his Norah o' Donnell interview, that she's up there giving him a smoochie. This is the person you're interviewing, Barry Wise. Why are you cheat kissing Donald Trump? What are you doing that for? She apparently overrode doubts within her own news organization. According to the Guardian, two senior network officials questioned the reporting's credibility due to missing crucial details. Their concerns were dismissed during the approval process. I want to note this is the same Bari Weiss who said that an already completed and vetted 60 minute story about those men who were sent to seekot in El Salvador. She said that story didn't have enough reporting and needed on the record responses from the regime before she said that story was good enough to go forward with. But this story from anonymous sources claiming that Jonathan Ross had internal injuries, perfectly good. With Bari Weiss, CBS News is done. It is finished. Between hailing Marco Rubio and saluting him and doing these both sidesy things on January 6, these both sidesy things, this interview with Donald Trump where nothing that he says is questioned. He's out to lie to the anchor of CBS Nightly News. I'm sorry, that used to be my network. I used to watch as growing up. But it's done. CBS is doa. It's done. By the way, Fox also going with this story that Jonathan Ross was has internal injuries. He sure didn't look internally injured to me. Now I'm not on a jury yet. Hopefully somebody will look into this from a law enforcement standpoint, from a law standpoint. What do you call from a lawful standpoint? Meanwhile the department, meanwhile this video, let me show you this video that has gone very, very, very viral that appears to show an ICE agent going into a port, porta potty with a female detainee. This is, you can turn the sound down. So you see someone took this video in Camden, in, on in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, Brooklyn center. And you can see this detainee come out of the vehicle. You see the ICE agent slip because only God can do it. He slips and falls and then the detainee goes into the porta potty and so does the ICE agent. That video is sparking outrage everywhere, all around. The Department of Homeland Security has now pushed back on that video, insisting that the person going into that porta potty ahead of the slip and fall ICE agent is a man, not a woman, saying, well, we don't deny detainees the right to use the restroom, but they have to be accompanied by an agent so they don't flee. That is their story. Was she going to run through the wall of the Porta Potty? I don't know. They're claiming that the reason the ICE agent went into the Porta Potty with this detainee is that they can't go in alone unless they try to flee. But here's my question. Who's the detainee? Now, if I was at CBS News, I would just accept the Department of Homeland Security at face value because they said so, so it has to be true. But we're not CBS News. We're not going to have to do them like Fox. You know, Fox. I don't call them Fox News. I just call them Fox. I think CBS are just going to start calling it cbs. Cbs. But DHS is making that claim. Not said, but claimed. Right. But if they want to prove that, they should just tell us who that detainee is. This should be very simple. Department of Homeland Security should release a name and a photo of that person, tell us why they're being detained, why they're handcuffed, why what crime they're being committed, accused of, and why they're being detained at all. Because what they're doing is they're slapping handcuffs on people simply for being brown and having an accent. They're not charging them with crimes. Have you heard any big prosecutions of Trend members? You have not. And we know that at least one ICE agent, a man named David Corvel, has pleaded guilty to sexually abusing a female detainee and the snatching of women off the street by masked men who throw these women into vans, cuff them and detain them without identifying who they are or showing them a warrant. Particularly given how easy it is to impersonate ice. Just buy those vests on Amazon. That means that we're likely to have a lot more stories like these and a lot more doubt. And if you thought it couldn't get worse, Trump and Pete Hegseth are planning to add the actual military to the chaos that Kristi Noem and Tom Holman and Stephen Miller and company are already creating on our streets with an apparent reaction force plant that is designed to stop the protests, to stop the protests in their tracks.
- [68:31]
D
Sir, a memo circulating on social media details the establishment of a National Guard response force that's going to be trained.
- [68:39]
A
In crowd control and civil unrest and deployed in all 50 states by April of 2026. Can you verify the authenticity of that memo and do you have any more information on the operations? I'm not going to answer particulars on.
- [68:53]
D
Something that may be in the planning process, but we definitely do have multiple layers of National Guard response forces, whether it's in each state, whether it's regionally.
- [69:02]
A
Whether it's, whether it's Title 10 active.
- [69:04]
D
Duty, whether it's Washington, D.C. we've got a lot of different ways that constitutionally and legally we can employ Title 10 and Title 32 forces, and we will do so when necessary.
- [69:16]
A
That's crazy. So what you're now and now you understand why Donald Trump hired Pete Hegseth, why he hired the people he hired, the reason he hired Cash Patel and Pete Hegseth and these podcasters and RFK Jr. The reason he didn't hire a credible, experienced, legitimate Cabinet. He hired these flunkies, these TV flunkies, because he wanted to do demonstrably illegal and unconstitutional things. And he knows that a real defense Secretary, somebody who actually knows the Constitution and knows and understands the rule of law, would never allow him to do the things he's doing. You couldn't have a Mark Milley and get away with this. You couldn't have a normal defense Secretary and get away with this. But Pete Hegseth is willing to allow the law to be broken. He's also going after the members of the House and Senate, those six who did that PSA that said you should not follow that you do not have to follow illegal orders. He's now going after them. The Department of Justice is investigating some of them. And Pete Hegseth's Pentagon is attempting to strip Senator Mark Kelly of his rank and bust him down a rank to take away his pension. So Donald Trump hired him on purpose. Right. He hired him because he knew that Pete Hegseth would be willing to deploy the military against the American people. You'll recall that his previous Defense secretary, who was temporarily his defense secretary during his term, refused to go along with the idea of shooting protesters. Mark Esper. Mark, they used to call him Jesper because Mark Esper was willing to pretty much say yes to whatever Donald Trump wanted. He was doing the same dance that most of these people that work for Trump do, where they go along with all of it to try to keep him quiet and calm. But Mark Esper, who again these call yes for, he was so compliant. But on this he was like, no, you can't shoot protesters. And Mark Milley also, he was very embarrassed later. But he walked with Donald Trump. Remember when Donald Trump was angry about the Black Lives matter protests in D.C. and was hiding in his bunker and then was embarrassed about hiding in his bunker and decided to show that he's not scared and that he was going to walk out of the White House and hold a Bible, which because he's never read the Bible he held upside down, or maybe because, you know, the devil is his friend, held a Bible upside down to try to show his strength. And he had a military phalanx walk with him, including Mark Milley, who was the Joint Chiefs chair, who. Mark Milley later apologized for that. But Donald Trump, during that whole dust up, wanted Mark Esper to deploy the United States military to shoot Americans. When Pete Hagseth went to be confirmed for his confirmation hearings, he was asked by Maono Senator Mazie Hirono directly asked him about that incident, about whether or not he would say no if Donald Trump asked the United States military to go into the streets of the United States and shoot Americans. Shoot protesters. You see where we're going here. Donald Trump wants to invoke the 18th century Insurrection act to put down the protests in Minnesota. He wants to juice those protests more by having ICE arrest more black people to try to draw black people into the protest so that they can make it the equivalent of the Black Lives Matter protest and so that white Americans will sit home and see black people getting rousted, black people getting shot, black people getting hurt so that they can take sides against those black people, the brown people. Wasn't that. That wasn't enough? Donald Trump is underwater in the polls. Six in 10 people from the CNN poll believe his administration thus far to be a failure. Americans are not buying it. At least 60% are not the 40% that are fascist or fascist. Curious. Love it. The people. I watched a little bit of Fox today just to hear what they were saying there. And you would not be shocked that they are saying that it is the protesters who are the villains and that ICE are the poor victims and that ICE are the ones who deserve sympathy and that the people that they're taking away are the worst of the worst. They're all a bunch of rapists and criminals. Although we've not seen a single prosecution coming out of these detentions. I have a bunch of data which I'm going to show you when our next guest comes on, that shows you'd be shocked at how few people are actually being detained. You'd be shocked at how few people are actually being deported. This is the reason that the far right, the Nick Fuentes side, is angry at Trump because they believe he's not keeping his promises. They're doing a lot of pain in theatrics. They're not really doing a lot of deportation because a lot of the people they're picking up are either citizens, lawful immigrants, or just brown people going about their day. And so they're not finding enough people. That's why they've changed the parameters of the quota, which Stephen Miller has given ICE the quota of 3,500 stops a day. They've expanded that quota to say, don't just go after brown working men at construction sites and in kitchens, et cetera. They're now saying, go get blacks. Get those black people involved. Piss off the blacks. Get the blacks out there. Maybe they'll go out and maybe they'll riot. Maybe they'll march in a way that looks like Black Lives Matter. Then we can send some of our incendiaries like they did, like the far right did during Black Lives Matter marches to break windows and say, aha, the blacks did it. And as our chat points out, intolerably me points out, Donald Trump has a much longer list of convictions than almost anybody that's been arrested. He's also pardoned yet two more fraudsters. Did you all know that Donald Trump did another round of pardons of fraudsters? New York Times reporting? Donald Trump issued a raft of clemency grants this week, including pardoning a woman that he'd given relief to when once before. And a man whose daughter had donated millions of dollars to a Trump super PAC. In 2021, a convicted fraudster named Adriana Camberos was freed from prison when President Trump commuted her sentence. Rather than taking advantage of that second chance, prosecutors said Ms. Camberos returned to crime. She and her brother were convicted in 2024 in an unrelated fraud. This week, Mr. Trump pardoned both siblings, marking the second time Mr. Trump had opened the prison gates to Ms. Camberos. So he doesn't hate all Hispanics. The pardons were among a handful of clemency grants quietly issued by Mr. Trump this week. Among the other lucky recipients, a man whose daughter had given millions of dollars to a Trump backed super pac, a former governor of Puerto Rico and a former FBI agent, all of whom had pleaded guilty in a political corruption case. So if you're a fraud and you pay Trump, he doesn't mind you if you're a cook or a waiter or you sell arrapas by the side of the road or you're a mom on your way to drop your kids off at preschool and you're just brown and you don't have money to pay Trump. They think you're a criminal. That is what these people actually think. And they've decided that they are going to criminalize what is a civil offense. And again, I did listen to C SPAN this morning and was quite disturbed listening to ordinary Americans haul off against Mayor Jacob Fry, against Governor Tim Walls, against anyone who stands in the way of ICE kidnapping people and insisting that it is the immigrants who are the problem. New item from cnn. The Justice Department is investigating Minnesota Governor Tim Walls and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry over alleged obstruction of law enforcement. A source told cnn. So there we have it. Pamela Joe is going to investigate the governor of Minnesota and the mayor of Minneapolis. They're the criminals, not the actual criminals. We're in a dark place. We're in a very, very dark place when you have a Justice Department that is also just a flunky. And Donald Trump called Tamla Joe and says, I need you to investigate Mayor Fry and Tim Walls. And she says, done, boss. I'm angry that Letitia James got me dead to rights for having a fake university and for defrauding the state of New York. And she got me for half a billion dollars. I need you to investigate her. Got it. I'm on it, boss. The Fed chair refuses to lower interest rates the way I want them reduced. I want him indicted. Got it, boss. We're a banana republic at this point. And, yeah, paid off with drug money. Yes. The people who are drug dealers, real drug dealers, just have to write a check to Donald Trump's friends, and we're just gonna assume he gets a cut and they can get pardoned people who are innocent bystanders who just happen to have brown faces or be black or have an accent that isn't Melania's accent. They get rousted by armed thugs who throw them behind bars, hold them for weeks at a time, even if they're indigenous people, and then release them. No harm, no foul, just release them. They just go home traumatized, and that's it. I don't know what else to say other than that we are in a deeply dark place. Place, a deeply dark place. We are living a fascist nightmare. And if this were happening, I say this all the time. If this were happening in any other country, we would be saying regime agents, armed regime agents entered the city of Minneapolis and began going door to door, harassing, detaining, and shooting people. But that's what they are saying in foreign countries, though, and that's what foreign countries are saying about us now. And you now have NATO amassing its navy to protect Greenland from us. You have our former allies refusing to share intelligence with our government because they don't trust us. And you have a group of strongmen, so called. They like to call themselves that. They wish Donald Trump, Bibi Netanyahu, Vladimir Putin, and Xi Jinping attempting to carve up the world so that each of them controls a sphere of influence. There is no more Pax Americana. That's done. The world that the United States built after World War II is done. And we're living in a different world now in which it is multipolar, which in some ways might be good, because the United States can't dominate the planet the way that we got accustomed to doing. We can't boss countries around the way we used to. You're seeing things like BRICs cause countries to at least attempt to break away from our influence and say that we don't have to either be allied with the Russians or the United States. We can form our own thing. We can form our own groups. We can trade in our own currency. We don't have to be beholden to Europe. We don't have to be beholden to the West. That's not a bad thing, actually. And it may be better that the United States is not as powerful as it was before, because we're not trustworthy. As I said to the ambassador, the rest of the world now knows that we have a proclivity for electing monsters. We have a proclivity for electing monsters and then putting them back in again. It's not Trump, it's us. It's the people of the United States, about 30 to 40% of whom don't have the good sense to not elect dictators and to not put people in place who hate 40% of the country and are fundamentally autocrats. The United States, just like lots of other countries, have a proclivity for autocracy. We have it just like everybody else. And yes, I will not forget Iran, as the chat has said, Iran's got them, too, the mullahs who are there because of us. It's our fault they're there. Chad is saying Rubio went to Guyana. Oh, my. Please get sick. Please stay out of my mother country. Please, please, please stay out of my mother country. But of course he would go to Guyana because Guyana is next to Venezuela, and in fact, Venezuela. At some point, Maduro had been threatening to invade Guyana because Essequibo, which is a big piece of Guyana, the biggest part of Guyana is about 70% of Guyana's territory is called Essequibo. I have family from there. And you know what's under Essequibo? Oil. You know what's off the coast of Essequibo Oil? If you got oil, the Eye of Sauron comes and looks for you. But it is a. It is a. It is a horrid thing that you now have a country in which, in our face, openly. Our government is creating a par. Has created a paramilitary force full of God knows who. There was a leak this week, by the way, of the names of some of the people in ice, and I think it's called ICE Leak. And they're starting to distribute the names, and people are being outraged about it. But here's the thing. There's a reason our police officers don't wear masks. Because you do know that when you have a masked police force, the dictionary name for that is secret police. If you don't know who your law enforcement are, the reason our law enforcement don't wear masks, they wear a hat. You know, they were. You know, they can wear vests and different uniforms. There's a reason that our police don't wear masks. If police wear masks, that's literally called the secret police. He was saying, that's not my Guyana. Listen, I don't want my Guyana getting involved in this at all. But the threats have been there. The threats were from Maduro. And now, apparently, the threats are going to come from us because the United States wants to make sure that. No other country can get access to our oil. Let me play one other thing. This is Kirsty Noem being asked whether or not we, like South Africa before us, are a nation in which everyone should be prepared to show their papers at any moment when asked by any federal agent. Are you okay with federal agents and officers violating people's Fourth Amendment rights by asking for papers without reasonable suspicion? Every single action that our ICE officers take is according to the law and following protocols that we have used for years, that this administration has used, that the previous administration used. They are doing everything correctly. And over and over again in litigation, in the courts, we've proven that they've done the right thing. Why is it within their right to do that? Why is it within their right to.
- [85:05]
D
Ask for papers without reasonable suspicion?
- [85:09]
A
That's just not true. That's just. That's just. It's not true. It's not true. Let's go through some of the data that we've seen in terms of these arrests. Let's. Let's start with D5 this is the number of arrests that we've seen through January 8th. So this isn't right up to date. This is through January 8th, 352,590 people detained. The number of people currently in detention is 70,000. Now, keep in mind, again, their goal was to eliminate a million people a year. The total deportations this year is 352,380. That's about a third of what they actually wanted to do. Let's go to the next slide, if we could, please. And this is. And we're going to bring this one back once we have our legal guests, hopefully soon notice the red line that's going up. And if you're seeing this on a TV screen, you're going to maybe have to squint and look a little bit. If you look at the gray line in the middle, that is the number of people who have pending criminal charges who are in detention in the United States. Going all the way back to 2024 is where the sort of red lines begin. You can see that Trump begins in January. And every number starts to go up. The black line, which is the number of people in detention who have a criminal history, meaning they've been arrested at some point for some sort of a crime. And keep in mind, some of these people with a criminal record, it's like a crime they committed 20 years ago or something, but they're using that as a pretext to take people in. So that line is that black line. But look at the line that's really shot up since September, October. If you look at that red line, look how that line has shot up and how starkly steep it is compared to the other lines that are sort of creeping up slowly. The line that's gone up the most are people with no criminal record at all. So they're not focused on getting the worst of the worst. By the way, there was also a division of ICE whose job was just to arrest people who were convicted of child molestation, robbery, murder, et cetera. And again, undocumented immigrants commit crimes at far below the rate of Americans, which is logical because if you're undocumented and you commit a crime, you're gonna get deported, so you're not committing crimes. Undocumented people don't commit crimes. They're trying to work and stay in the country. So the American born population has a higher record of criminality, a higher rate of criminality. But of the people who actually had some sort of criminal arrest, they are now the minority of people who are being detained. The Majority of people being detained are people with no criminal record at all. Let's go to the next slide. This is D8. This is the Homeland Security data about the arrests by ICE and cbp. So if you look at this chart, you'll see that during the Biden administration, that's the gray at the far left of your screen. The people in ICE detention and the arrests were fairly moderate. This is the period that the right and that MAGA says triggered them to put Trump back in because they were so angry about the low numbers of arrests and detentions. You see it shot up when Trump came back in, and then you had the government shutdown in which there was no arrest because there was no government. And then afterwards, you see it spike. This is as they are getting desperate to boost their numbers even higher. They're getting more and more desperate over time to boost their numbers to a million a year. And thanks to the Guardian for these. These slides are from the Guardian. Let's go to the next one. This is now actual Homeland Security data. This is their own data that they actually share themselves. These are the arrests buy ice over time. So now you go back to 2021, fiscal year 2021, and that means all of sort of going up into 2021. It's fairly low. And then you get, during the Biden administration, a huge spike in arrests over time. So you can see here that Biden was deporting a lot of people, arresting a lot of ISIL's, arresting a lot of people under Biden. And then in 2024, it went down because you had a lower demand at the border. And most of these arrests were at the border. And here's 2025. And let's go to the next slide, if we could, please. Despite the fact that you had less demand at the border, the budget for ice increased by 258%. $29.9 billion of your money allocated for detention alone. The daily detention capacity in a country in which the government wants to deport a million people a year is only 116,000 beds, which is why they're now using private prisons. There were 21,000 people employed by ICE. That was the total staff in 2025. Enforcement personnel, 7,700. The federal prison comparison, 62% larger than the staff in the prison system. Let's go to the next slide, if we could, please. Now we look at, again, this is the government's own data in most cases, right? The total in ICE detention in the fiscal year 2025 was only 57,861 people. That doesn't sound like the kind of numbers that they are talking about and that they're selling to their base. Right, but the percent with no criminal conviction by their own data is 71.7%. You round that up, that means that 72% of the people that they have in ICE detention have no criminal conviction. Only 28.3% of the people in ICE detention have criminal convictions and scenes. They're not grabbing the worst of the worst. They're just grabbing anybody. Brown, can we go to the next one? D10. Can we see that one? Oh, that was D10. Okay, there we go. This is the last one. So now let's look at the last slide here. This is the ICE detentions over the last decade. Now, they used to call Barack Obama deporter in chief because he did a fair number of detentions. She. Could we put that back up for just one second? Yeah. Thank you very much. One more time, please. Barack Obama was called deporter in chief. A lot of Latino voters who turned against Obama and decided they wanted to go Republican and go right wing. There was a saying, a friend of mine, that is a good friend, she's Colombian, she's in the news business. She said they used to say, please, mama, don't deport my mama. Please, Obama don't deport my mama. But his detention rate, you can see, is pretty low. If you compare, we're Talking about about 300,000 people in the year 2015, 2016, the final year of his administration, when they were pushing really hard to get an immigration deal. The Obama administration believed that doing a lot of deportations would encourage Republicans to make a deal. That did not happen. Despite that high, relatively high number of deportations or detentions, it didn't change Republicans behavior despite the fact that Obama and his administration. And by the way, the person he put in charge of doing that was Tom Homan. The person that Barack Obama hired to do these deportations was Tom freaking Homan. I think he even got an award for his meritorious service doing those deportations. We put that up one more time. Those deportations then shot up when Barack, when. When Donald Trump came in the first time. So you can see Donald Trump comes in 2017. The numbers spike because he's trying to keep this promise of mass deportation. So the detentions shoot way up, then they go down. Why the pandemic, that steep slope down. That's because the pandemic happens and then Biden comes in and the detentions start to slowly creep up again. You see them in 2024 at the highest level, not quite the highest level, but going up under Biden, because Biden also was trying to cut a deal with Republicans to close the border, seal the border and try to reverse this, what they consider this wide open border, which wasn't a wide open border, but about 10 million people did come into the country during the Biden administration. And that is supposedly what fueled MAGA to believe that they needed to bring back the dog, the barking dog, because they were so freaked out that so many people came into the country forgetting that one of the reasons so many people came into the country was because during the pandemic, lots of Americans were sitting home and people still wanted meat, they still wanted chicken and turkey, and they still wanted lettuce and tomatoes and food. And so there was a big draw of undocumented immigrants who became essential workers who came here to do the jobs that literally Americans not only didn't want to do, but were terrified to do because they were afraid of COVID And yet those undocumented immigrants who then stayed, in many cases, maybe in some cases got married, had families, those are the people that ICE is throwing on the ground, kicking, hog tying and throwing into random vans. This is where we're at. This is what's happening. Ice. Yeah. People are like, Homan. Wow. Yeah. Tom Homan worked for Obama and claims that he was red pilled by not being allowed to be harsh enough. We've had a mass deportation system that's really kind of existed since the 90s. The last time we had an actual immigration law was I believe, in the late 80s. The last time we had a robust immigration law was in 1965 when Lyndon Baines Johnson passed an immigration act that allowed and widened the scope of allowing people from Latin America to come into the country as immigrants. Whereas before that we were living in the age of the Asian Exclusion Act, 1927 era Immigration bills that did not allow Asians, didn't allow certain southern Europeans, and blocked people who weren't white to try to get America's demographics to be the same as they were in 1890, meaning mainly white. And so we really just have demographic panic because after the 1965 law, lots more brown people came in and then so many came in that by the time Ronald Reagan came along, Ronald Reagan did an amnesty and basically wiped clean the slates of like 2 million people. He just led, he just did straight up amnesty because so many brown people had come in through that 65 act and people were freaking out about the demographics then too so he just did amnesty. Reagan just was like, poof, y' all are all legal. Some of their children and grandchildren are probably voting MAGA now and singing I will vote. Vote on. Right. And so then you fast forward to the pandemic, and yes, you had a surge of undocumented people who came here and kept y' all alive and made sure y' all could eat. Everybody wanted the Chick fil A. They wanted the food, but they didn't know who was making the food, who was working in the meatpacking plants, who was working in the fields, who was picking the lettuce and the tomatoes and all the food we were eating during the pandemic. Those people are now being thrown to the ground, tackled, beaten up. And the people protecting them, including white women, are being harassed, ridiculed, cursed at, name called, and in the case of Renee Nicole, good shot in the face. And I listened to Fox today as they said, Jesse Waters said that we're the bad guys for wanting to have compassion for those people because those people are all a bunch of rapists and criminals. Meanwhile, he is verbally fellating the president who is doing nothing but protecting pedophiles and releasing scammers and fraudsters with pardons. That's the guy protecting all the Jeffrey Epstein pedos, his favorite president that he worships and loves and whose ass he kisses all day, every day on fox. But we're the bad guys because he. He thinks that the lady at the bus stop that Michelle Norris did a piece, and I was texting with Michelle Norris the other day because she did a piece in which she talked about a woman who was snatched from a bus stop, a Latina woman just sitting in a bus stop, snatched by ICE in front of two men who were like, what are you doing? And they were like, what's happening? They're freaking out about it. This lady's gone. Nobody knows who she is, where she is. But Jesse Waters wants you to think that lady's a criminal and just assume she's a criminal because she's brown. But Donald Trump, who's a fraudster, a civilly adjudicated sexual abuser, a scammer, a crook, he's all right. We're supposed to side with him. And we're supposed to side with Jonathan Ross, who's now claiming to have been so dearly injured when that car didn't hit him and steered away from him as she tried to comply with his demand that she go away, that they drive away. She tried to drive away and you shot her in the Face, man, but we're supposed to side with him. And when I tell you I was on C Span listening to. I was not. I was listening to C Span this morning as half those callers called in and took Jesse Waters, Jonathan Ross and Donald Trump and Stephen Miller's side, including some elderly people, some. Somebody's grandma calling in sounding like a 1930s pro Hitler, Sieg heil, fascist, somebody's grandma saying, these illegals, they're to blame, they need to be thrown out of this country. So if you think this problem is that, the problem is Trump, you're not paying attention. The problem is us. The problem is we live in a country where they want apartheid, where 40% of this country wants every American to have to show their papers, to take their passport and their birth certificate everywhere they go, and be prepared to show their papers to any masked agent who asks you for it. They want that. They want you to. Because they know they're never going to be asked to show them. They know they're never going to be asked to prove that they're an American. They know that an indigenous Native American, a Cherokee, an Oglala Sioux, they're going to be asked to show their papers, but they know they, the little granny ass C Span caller knows they're never going to be asked. And if they were asked, they'd be highly offended and enraged. They would be so angry and enraged if they were asked. But they don't mind you being asked. And they now have included in the group of people who they don't mind being harassed and humiliated in the street. Any white person who empathizes with brown and black people who are being asked. And so if you're white and you're not down with this, they want you to be asked. This is how apartheid works. Apartheid does not just demonize the black or the brown, the immigrant, the poor. It demonizes the. The affluent and the white too. If they're not down with it, they try to bully and get everyone on team. And if you're not on side, you two are the enemy. That is why the right is gleeful about the killing of Renee Nicole. Good. Because in their mind, she's a traitor. She's a race traitor. She's a class traitor. She should have been with them. And if she had been with them, she'd be fine. She should get out of the way and allow ICE to quote, unquote, do their job. What is their job? Because the last I checked, they're not the police. They're not supposed to be picking up People for being unhoused, that's not a crime for which ICE is supposed to be called. When you see somebody that is living outside on the street, is it ICE that you call for that? Is that their job? Is it their job when they're off duty to stop people from firing in the air on New Year's? Is that ice's job now really? Is it their job to just go up to people on the street and say, hey man, are you a citizen? Where were you born? That's apartheid. That's literally apartheid. If you go and put yourself in a time machine and go back to 1980 South Africa, that's what they would do. Show your papers. Show them to me now. And you know who used to call demanding people's papers apartheid and fascism? Marco Rubio. Back when I was in Florida when Arizona tried to pass a law that would order every Arizona citizen to walk with their citizenship papers and show them on demand to any police officer because the conservative government at the time was trying to out anti immigrant everyone else. Marco Rubio called that fascism and said that's apartheid. Google it. He and Jeb Bush both said that's fascism. Marco Rubio, whose brother in law is a major former drug dealer, a major, major cocaine dealer would be aghast if his brother in law was demanded to show his papers or if his wife or his daughter were. But he thinks you should be because he's on side. And so they've got these paramilitaries, these paramilitary forces operating in our streets with no rule of law attached to them doing something fundamentally illegal. Fundamentally illegal. Demanding to know your citizenship on demand. It is not. I'm not a lawyer, but I promise you, I get Angela Rai back on here and she will tell you that that is not legal. I'll get Katie Fang on here. I promise you, you are not required to prove your citizenship on demand as a United States citizen. You are not required to do that. But they're saying that we are an apartheid state. They're playing music that is from neo Nazis. They're celebrating neo Nazism from the seat of the state. They're putting up Department of Labor memes on X Twitter that show these idyllic white faces and saying that is America and no one else. They're ripping down anything that is non white, that is historical and saying it isn't history, it isn't valid, it isn't worthy. They're replacing monuments to the Confederacy on our military bases. Do you see what they're telling? Just to hear what they're telling you. And when Jesse Waters says they're the good guys, it's because that is what he voted for. People like him, people like those callers to C Span, you just better believe they're not being fooled by this. They're not being tricked by Trump. This isn't about him. He's actually, in many ways, the least interesting part of this story. Trump, in many ways, is a joke. Like, he's a goof. He's somebody. If I gave him this, he'd think it was an Oscar because he just is so freaking thirsty that he just wants to be lauded and loved and commemorated. If I gave him this gold thing or I gave him this, he would treasure it because it's gold. And he's just like a child that wants golden things and to be patted on the head while he's patting women on the ass. He's the least interesting part of the story in many ways. What's interesting is the sheer number of Americans who are actually in favor of this. When I think about Nazi Germany, Hitler was an evil man, but it took a lot of people to either be for him affirmatively or to look the other way and let him do what he was doing because they thought less of their neighbors who are being snatched, kidnapped, and detained. They thought less of them than they thought of him. Franco, same thing in Spain. It's always the leader we focus on, but it's the people who make it happen. And in this country, it's got 30 to 40% who. They really did vote for this. They really do want it. They really enjoy watching these people get hurt. And so before you assume that this is unpopular everywhere in America, go back and listen to what Joe Rogan said. He said, on the one hand, that might look like the Gestapo, but on the other hand, maybe we need the Gestapo because too many brown people came in here during Biden. And he can see how people might be upset about that. And my question will be, why? Why are you upset about that? Because those brown people who came in to clean up the economic disaster that Donald Trump created when he screwed up the pandemic response left this country with collapsed employment and left industries desperate for workers who were willing to come, by the way and work during the pandemic, some of those people came in during him. Because during the pandemic, who wanted to go and work in the open in a meatpacking plant, the people who fed us, kept us alive, kept our businesses afloat, kept our construction businesses afloat. Those are the people that these paramilitaries Are hurting, harming, detaining. And when they're, you know, when they're spraying tear gas at them, sometimes they're hitting six month old babies. I want to note that we were supposed to have Cheryl and Eiffel tonight and she's having connection issues. So that's why you're. You're stuck with me in the moment. Because her. She's having connection issues. So that is the issue. We will, we will invite her back to make sure that she can come on and give you actual legal analysis. Because I'm just. I'm just. I am not a lawyer. But I'm just telling you that I can read the Constitution.
- [108:41]
E
No, but a lawyer would be telling facts.
- [108:43]
A
And that's what you do right now.
- [108:44]
E
Speaking facts of the law.
- [108:47]
A
But you are talking facts, facts. So it's all good. I mean, and it should be self evident, right? Because we. Have you ever heard of in your life a requirement that you show your papers upon demand. Now, I will tell you that if you are a green card holder, generally you're told that you should carry your green card with your id. Because if you are asked for it, I do believe a green card holder is supposed to at least have it on them. Right? It's like going out and driving without your driver's license. You should have your driver's license with you. Your mama always told you, don't leave your house without some kind of identification. God, something happened to you. You want people to know who you are, so you should have your identification. But your proof of citizenship, what would that be? A birth certificate. How dare you ask a citizen for the birth certificate. Why are you pulling over my Uber? This person is clearly a working person. So you're not going after the worst of the worst. You're telling me you think this Uber driver or this cab driver, this yellow cab driver, that's your target? What was your cause for pulling that cab over? Did you run the license plate and find that person was a criminal? Probably not, because they didn't arrest the cab driver. Rolanda Watts's cab driver was not arrested for a crime. They just pulled him over because he's brown. They're not stopping people because they looked it up and they. They used facial recognition, said, aha. This person is a child molester. No, they're protecting child molesters because they won't release Epstein files. They don't care about child molesters. And they disbanded the organization inside ice, whose job it was to specifically focus on arresting child molesters, disbanded them and took every single person in the specialized task force in ICE and said, now you're going to do civil enforcement. Everyone is doing civil enforcement now. There's no one doing specialized work where they're supposed to be looking for the worst of the worst. Nobody's doing that now. They're just snatching anybody, brown and black, who has an accent. You just. Not Melania's accent. If you are brown and black and you have an accent, they're snatching you up off the street, and then they're holding you in detention at a private facility. Go back again. Their actual detention capacity isn't over 116,000 beds. They don't have the capacity to detain a million people. They just don't. They have the budget larger than the armies of most countries in the world. They don't have the bed capacity to detain a million people. So what are they doing? They're putting those people in private prisons where the private prison can convict, lease them out and make money off of them. They're holding them for just enough days to make them work so that the private prison makes money. The private prisons donate to the Republicans and to Trump. Everybody's eating except you. And except the businesses who can't survive without their dishwasher, their cook, their waiter, their security guard, the car companies who can't survive without their drivers because their drivers are brown.
- [111:39]
E
This is one of the biggest scams.
- [111:41]
A
It's a scam ever run. You know, it's a scam.
- [111:43]
E
Wait till we figure this.
- [111:44]
A
Well, I know we figured it out.
- [111:45]
E
Already, but this is a huge scam. People need to go to jail for this shit.
- [111:49]
A
It's a scam. And in the end, I. I will be very shocked if they actually deport more people than Biden or Obama did in the end. Because what they're doing is they're moving these people around the country from private prison to private prison so everybody eats a little bit. They're giving everybody a taste. It's like a mafia thing, right? And then they're entertaining the people on that C span. Who? The little old ladies sitting home who you think are somebody's nice grandma who just wants to see brown people kicked in the face because she's mad that she has to hear Spanish spoken at cbs. And so she feels her country's been overrun and they're just sure that Republicans would win every time if there weren't these brown people that Joe Rogan claims were important into the country in order to shift the ballot. Undocumented people don't vote. How would they vote. Can you just explain to me logically, since you're just asking questions, Joe, how would they vote? How do they pull that off? Walk me through the process of a person with no ID and no documentation proving they should be here at all. How are they walking into the Department of Motor Vehicles and getting a voter identification card? Walk me through how they're doing that and not expecting to immediately be caught at the DMV and deported. That's how you show yourself. You're going to raise your hand by voting. Does that even make sense? Oh, well, you know, people are paying them to vote. Are they really? How much would they be able to pay you to stand in a long line in Georgia with no water? Because it's illegal to give you water to vote for somebody you never heard of because you're not even from here and probably don't even speak the language. It doesn't even make sense. So you have to know as this, as what is this? Barbara Tunde. Barbara Trudy. Barbara Trudy 113980 said the chaos is the point. You win, you win the chat of the day. The visuals are the point. I just walked you through the numbers. It's not that they're getting more criminals, more people. They're getting the visual fix. It's like a crack fix for their base so that they can see brown people being hurt. And now they're feeding them the new crack, which is they need to see black people being hurt. They're desperate for there to be a big riot with blacks so that they can implement the Insurrection Act. I said it on Wednesday. I will say it again. Do not fall for the Okie doke black folk. That's what they want us to do. Let's keep our stuff together. The goal is chaos and the breakdown of community. The goal is chaos and the breakdown of community and fear, fear, fear. And then they're gonna take that fear and what we have to assume is gonna be the occupation of multiple American cities. And these will be cities in swing states with Democratic mayors. And they're gonna be everywhere when you go to vote. And so now, even today. Yes, definitely giving slave catcher vibes. It's the same system. Yes. Release the Epstein files. This is also a distraction from that. So what you have to start preparing for even as of now, is that by November or by your primary dates, they're going to be these armed militia everywhere. These militia, they're already. They're stress testing how much they can get away with. And if Trump can get away with it, It'll be the US Military everywhere, everywhere when you go to vote. He said, ain't no Okie doan going on here. Jason Nubian Queen said, ain't no Okie dokie going on around here. There's something going on around here. They want people terrified because they want a Russia style election in which people are so afraid to vote that whatever, whoever it is they want to win wins in a landslide. Well, you never know what's going to happen. You just never know what's going to happen. Americans are an ornery bunch. We don't. Americans don't scare that easily. Americans get mad when you start shooting white women in the face. White people, some white. The spicy whites get mad. There may be the. The whites from C Span. They may be like, well, you know, she just heard it. But the spices. Now they get mad. Oh, wait a minute. We have. Do we have. Do we have. Oh, great. We have Sherrilyn. No. Okay. Okay. We're gonna try. We're running out of time. So what we might do. Oh, wow. I think we. Okay, we are. We have run out of time. We love Cheryl and we're going to rebook Eiffel. She had some issues with her Internet, but yes, let's. Let's pop around for five minutes. Let her say hello to the people. Sheryl and Ifill, my good sister, you're our mother.
- [116:20]
C
Hello to the people.
- [116:23]
A
Before we let you go, I'm going to rebook you because we want to spend some time with you. I want to really spend some time and talk to this. I just want you to answer one question. The chat is loving you. They're giving you. Hello, Hello, Hello. Is it the law that Americans must be willing to prove our citizenship on demand if a federal agent asks?
- [116:46]
F
Not that I know of. I don't think we've ever faced something like this before. I think the difficulty is that there was a decision in October challenging the stops that were happening in Los Angeles. The case was brought by US Citizens, Latino US Citizens who feared that they would be caught up in what was then the ICE activity in Los Angeles. And they described the kinds of things that were happening to them. This is the case that was on the shadow docket. And on the shadow docket, the Supreme Court. That means the emergency docket. For folks who don't know, it means the case hasn't been fully briefed. It wasn't argued, it wasn't on the merits yet. But it's because the lower courts had tried to stay the ability of Trump to continue with the ICE activity in Los Angeles. So the administration continued to appeal it up to the Supreme Court on the emergency docket, asking for a release from the stay. And the Supreme Court declined to release the stay, declined to uphold the stay, and therefore allowed these stops to continue. And when they do those decisions on the shadow docket, most often they don't do it with an opinion. Sometimes there's an opinion, sometimes there's a dissent from the decision to lift the injunction. Sometimes there's a one justice will write an opinion. And in this case, one justice did a concurring opinion. So there's no opinion, really to accompany the decision. So we don't know what the rationale is for why they allowed the interdiction in Los Angeles and those stops to go forward. One justice decided to write an opinion, and that was Justice Kavanaugh. And in that opinion, he described what he thinks are the stops that happen. And he described something like it was taken off the ICE web page. It basically said, sometimes officers will see someone and they will ask them about their citizenship. They will quickly ascertain that they are a citizen, and that person will be permitted to go. If the person cannot determine that they're a citizen, they may be briefly detained until ICE can evaluate whether in fact they are a citizen. And he said in that opinion that it is logical for ICE to do this work around places where undocumented people might be expected to congregate, like Home Depot parking lots and so forth. Now, what's shocking about this is he didn't need to write that opinion.
- [119:35]
A
Right.
- [119:36]
F
It was already disturbing that the court was allowing the Los Angeles stuff to go forward. But again, the case hasn't been fully tried and hasn't made its way up. So we don't really have a real opinion on the question that you asked, right. Whether this is constitutional. But one judge who was with the judges who decided to lift the injunction decided to issue an opinion. That opinion, I believe, really opened the door to the deepening of this, and that's why we call them Kavanaugh stops. Right. We have named them after this justice. And from everything I hear, he is extremely disturbed that this is the brand that has been attached to these stops that use racial profiling, to these stops that in. In which ICE officers engage in this violence, in which they're going door to door asking for proof of citizenship. I truly believe that without that concurring opinion, they would not have thought that they could go that far. I don't want to put it all on Kavanaugh, because I Also put it on a majority of the justices who decided to lift the stay. But to answer your question, we don't have an answer to that question. But remember, all of this that Trump is doing was premised on the idea that there is an emergency. And because I believe that the evidence has not been presented that there is an emergency that would justify the kind of action that Trump has been engaged in, I think it is not legal because there was no emergency. The emergency is happening now. It's one of the Trump administration's making. But there was no emergency in Minneapolis happening. There was no emergency in Los Angeles. There was no emergency in Chicago. Essentially, what the president said in Chicago and Los Angeles is that there's so much crime that's out of control in Minneapolis, he says, so much fraud. Well, ICE doesn't investigate fraud. As someone posted, you know, if you wanted to investigate fraud, you would send in a team of accountants. If you send in soldiers, you want war. So that's why it's difficult to answer that question. I hope that was understandable.
- [121:39]
A
Very understandable. As always. We are, we are out of time, but we're going to invite you back. Sheryl and Ifill, the great Sharon Eiffel, civil rights lawyer. Civil rights lawyer, founding director of the 14th Amendment center for Law and Democracy at the great Howard University School of Law, and as you all know, the former president and director counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, AKA ldf. Thank you, my good sister. We will invite you back. Thank you. We will make sure we get that WI Fi together and then we're going to do a full hour. Take care. Thank you. Goodbye. All right, before we go, because I know we have our team TJRS private chat. Before that, let's really quickly play our moment of joy. It is by comedians Lysandra Vasquez and Lauren Knight, who collaboed on a recipe for building a black ice agent. To prove that I have black friends, I invited my coworker Keisha. It's Lauren. To help me make an ice agent from scratch in a large bowl. Start with a cup of racism. Gently fold in generations of colorism. Then sprinkle in homophobia, transphobia, and agoraphobia to taste. Don't worry about overdoing it. We season things here. Then you'll want to add the tears of their hard praying grandmother, a big dollop of back sweat from their white wife, and the essence of heartbreak from the times their dad left. Before you mix, you need to remove the female juices. You don't need a king. Don't worry if you don't have deodorant, a car, or a diploma. This recipe only works without those things. Cover with the blue wall of silence and let it sit through all of their white friends saying the N word. You'll know they're ready once they start defending those white friends on Facebook. Oop. Don't worry if it still looks black. According to 23andMe, it's 1% Nordic. And there you have your black ice agent from scratch. Thank you, latoya. Yeah, it's my turn to listen. Oh my God, that is so funny. Follow Lisandra Vasquez at Lisandra V. Comedy and Lauren Knight at She's Lauren K. Thank you ladies for allowing us to use that as our moment of joy tonight. Thank you again. Reminder again, please vote for the Joy Re show at the NAACP Image Awards. You can vote once a day. By the way, it's a People's Choice Award. Thank you for tuning in. And don't forget, if you're a team TJRS member or reader member at Substack, we're going live with you guys right after this. All right, see you guys. Have a happy weekend. Goodbye.
- [124:01]
D
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- [124:03]
A
Let me dig a little deeper with the shovel Plenty can't tell the force.
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D
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A
Detect Like a black hole in a dog Injustice anywhere, it's a threat to justice everywhere. Let me make this clear I got a bone to pick and I'll never.
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