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Jan 6 5 Years Later: Invasions & Impunity | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!

The Joy Reid Show

Tue Jan 06 2026

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joy Reid Show — “Jan 6 5 Years Later: Invasions & Impunity”

Host: Joy-Ann Reid
Episode Date: January 6, 2026
Main Guests: Bishop William Barber, Daniel Hodges, Harry Dunn, Michael Fanone, Paola Ramos
Theme: Examining the fifth anniversary of January 6th, ongoing lawlessness and impunity in American governance, and a deep dive into U.S. intervention in Venezuela, imperialism, and petrodollar politics.

Overview

This episode marks the five-year anniversary of the January 6th Capitol insurrection. Joy Reid explores how the events and aftermath of January 6, 2021, shaped U.S. democracy and paved the way for continued lawlessness and impunity — particularly under a return of Donald Trump to the presidency. The episode features firsthand testimonies from police officers who defended the Capitol, sharp critique of political cowardice, and a robust segment dissecting the recent U.S. military intervention in Venezuela.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. January 6th, 2021: Five Years Later

The show’s opening frames January 6th as “our Reichstag fire moment” which, left unresolved, cleared the path for further assaults on democracy.
Reid asserts that Trump’s actions represent a continuation of autocratic traditions worldwide — noting parallels with the likes of Putin and Xi Jinping, who’ve refused to cede power.

Quote:

“Nothing is new. All these forms of autocracy repeat each other… January 6th of 2021 was behaving like arrest all of the other dictators throughout history.”
— Joy Reid (07:55)

2. Personal Reflections: The Officers’ Stories

Guests include D.C. Metropolitan Police Officer Daniel Hodges, former U.S. Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn, and former D.C. Metro Officer Michael Fanone: all attacked on January 6th.
All three reflect on the emotional toll, ongoing trauma, and the lack of accountability in both politics and media.

Danny Hodges:

“Not to be dramatic, but for me, you know, it’s never far from my mind… it’s always relevant. It’s illustrative of what happens when we don’t hold someone accountable.”
— Daniel Hodges (17:35)

Harry Dunn:

“You have two officers suing Congress… to hang up a plaque that the law… says must be there… Hang up the plaque like the law says, or repeal the law. That’s simple.”
— Harry Dunn (19:11)

Michael Fanone:

“Donald Trump exists in his current form because Americans replaced the characteristics of integrity and honor and courage with cowardice… we’re still actively engaged in the same fight that began on January 6.”
— Michael Fanone (21:33)

3. Political Cowardice and Failure to Act

Critique of both Republican and Democratic leaders for failing to enforce consequences on Trump, setting a precedent of impunity.
Sharp language against Mitch McConnell for his failure to convict Trump during impeachment, with Dunn launching a memorable rant:

“Fuck you Mitch McConnell… He alone could have ended this nightmare. But, like Michael said, he was more concerned about changing the landscape of this country through his judicial nominations…”
— Harry Dunn (32:50)

Officers and Reid discuss how institutions passed blame and responsibility: Congress expects the DOJ to act, DOJ delays, the special prosecutor acts too late.

4. Legacy Media’s Role & Historical Revisionism

Fanone and Joy Reid lament how mainstream media have whitewashed or deprioritized January 6th, comparing current “miss-memory” with contemporaneous universal condemnation.

“We have an insurrectionist president… because no one will stand up to him. Outrages me.”
— Michael Fanone (41:11)

5. U.S. Intervention in Venezuela: Empire & Oil

Transition to incisive coverage of the U.S. military operation arresting Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro.
Reid critiques the media’s varied framing (NYT critical vs. Washington Post celebratory) and exposes the naked imperial and economic interests motivating the intervention.

“What Donald Trump said about Iraq — we should have taken the oil — and apparently, now, we have. We’re selling Venezuelan oil… It’s about oil, but it’s even more about empire.”
— Joy Reid (51:30, 62:03)

Rubio, representing the administration, fails to articulate legal authority for U.S. actions beyond “court orders” and sidesteps questions about selective prosecution.
Paola Ramos joins to frame the intervention as transactional, providing emotional “victory” for some exiles but merely entrenching power structures and U.S. interests.

“This is more about the petrodollar and preventing him [Maduro] from getting out of the petrodollar system… It was never about democracy.”
— Paola Ramos (82:26)

6. History of U.S. Imperialism

Joy Reid delivers a mini-lecture on U.S. expansionism — Louisiana Purchase, annexation of Hawaii, conquest of Mexico, and constant intervention in Latin America.
She connects contemporary maneuvers in Venezuela to the U.S. tradition of resource-driven imperialism, illustrating with historical maps and cartoons.

“We don’t tend to think of ourselves that way, but the U.S. is an empire… What built those personal fortunes was oil.”
— Joy Reid (73:00)

Explains the petrodollar arrangement’s collapse in 2024 and the implications of countries joining alternatives like BRICS.

7. Moral and Political Call To Action

Bishop William Barber provides a biblical and moral frame, calling for grassroots action, not only resistance.
Urges micro-level (state-level and local) mobilization and vision-based organizing, referencing moral leaders’ historical failures to speak out.

“If there’s ever been a time we need to micro down to the state level… At least one time we ought to try putting all our power on the table.”
— Bishop William Barber (113:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Lawlessness:
“We are seeing ICE behave like the 1-6-Rioters, behave like them, physically assaulting people in the street, wearing masks, which none of you were allowed to do. What do you make of how that kind of sense of lawlessness has bled into things like ICE?”
— Joy Reid to Daniel Hodges (35:06)
Bluntness on Institutional Failure:
“Merrick Garland, you know, to me, is the ultimate coward in this story… we actually had to form a select committee to force the Department of Justice to act…”
— Michael Fanone (30:11)
Critique of American Exceptionalism:
“We use the badness of one leader to justify more badness. And what happens is we don’t end up being liberators, just takers.”
— Bishop William Barber (108:52)

Important Timestamps

Reflections on Jan 6 & Lawlessness: 03:00–12:00
Officers Panel Begins: 17:07
Dunn Rant Against Mitch McConnell: 32:48
Discussion on Political Cowardice: 29:52–32:00
Venezuela Segment Starts: 43:00
Rubio Evasion and Oil Motives: 48:06–58:00
Paola Ramos joins: 82:24
History of U.S. Empire & Petrodollar: 56:00–78:00
Bishop Barber’s Moral Monday: 101:01–116:00

Language & Tone

Joy Reid’s tone is sharp, direct, and frequently wry, blending passionate critique with historical explanation and personal reflection.
Guests, especially the officers, are frank, often emotional, and occasionally profane — underlining their ongoing sense of betrayal.
The overall vibe is urgent, forthright, and deeply skeptical of institutional narratives.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode:

This episode is an unflinching reflection on the fifth anniversary of January 6. It foregrounds the trauma and vigilance of frontline defenders of democracy, rips into political and media complicity, and builds a detailed, accessible case for seeing American actions — domestically and abroad — through the lens of empire and systemic lawlessness. The podcast’s second half shifts to foreign policy, exposing the imperial logic behind the U.S. operation in Venezuela, the manipulation of narratives, and the critical importance of petrodollar hegemony. The show ends with a call for collective, purposeful resistance and moral clarity in the face of deepening autocracy.

Sectional Breakdown

1. Opening & Context (00:27–07:55)

New year, ongoing lawlessness, Jan 6 anniversary, announcement of special guests and topics (Delta Sigma Theta, Venezuela).

2. Jan 6 Lawlessness and Immigration Scandal (07:55–17:07)

Minnesota “daycare scandal,” right-wing media manipulation, Trump’s blaming and attacks on immigrants and critics.

3. The Officers' Testimony (17:07–41:29)

Firsthand trauma, struggle for memorialization, legal fights for recognition, institutional betrayal.
“It is always relevant… because it’s illustrative of what happens when we don’t hold someone accountable.” — Daniel Hodges

4. Institutional & Political Failure (24:14–35:06)

Congressional and DOJ cowardice, McConnell’s duplicity, Democratic passivity.

5. Venezuela: Empire in Action (43:00–78:07)

Media framing, Rubio’s evasions, clear linkage to oil and U.S. empire, petrodollar politics, BRICS, and risks to U.S. financial dominance.

6. Latin America, Intervention, and Narrative (82:24–97:14)

Conversation with Paola Ramos, the emotional politics of exile, regime change history, U.S. strategy, and private profiteering.

7. Moral Monday with Bishop Barber (101:01–116:00)

Morality and action for democracy, religious history, need for mobilization, and the “witches’ brew” of propaganda.

Bottom Line:
If you want to understand the ongoing repercussions of January 6th, the stakes of unchecked executive power, and how U.S. imperial maneuvering in the Americas is about more than “democracy” — about oil, dollars, and hubris — this episode is a raw, comprehensive primer blending history, policy, and passionate advocacy.

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Transcript

Joy Reid (0:00)

It's a historically hideous season. It's our 100th ugly house.

Donald Trump (0:05)

And if these walls could talk.

Joy Reid (0:07)

Do you cry a lot? I do. Ugliest house in America.

Donald Trump (0:11)

Season premiere Wednesday at 8 on HGTV.

Marco Rubio (0:19)

Okay. Yeah.

Joy Reid (0:27)

Hey, everybody. Happy New Year to everyone. If we haven't said happy New Year to you already, I can't remember. Yes, we've done a couple of sort of shows, mini shows, but happy official first Monday of the new year to everybody. Thanks for tuning into the Joy Reid Show. Welcome to everybody who is watching on YouTube, whether you're on Substack, hello, Stackers, Hello. As well as those who are listening through the audio podcast of your choosing, thank you all for being here. As, as folks are pointing out in the chat, yes, Delta Sigma Theta Sorority incorporated. Founders Day is coming up, but it's not today. But y' all are letting me know. Don't miss it. Don't worry. I will be on the lookout for that as well. It is a beautiful January. Lots of news going on. We've got a big show tonight. It is Moral Monday, which means Bishop Barbara will be with us in the second hour. That's a big thing. We are also going to get into this whole Venezuela thing. We're going to talk about it because I do believe that most of the mainstream media is kind of missing the story. And Jason and I were having this conversation about how different it is being outside of that bubble, how differently you're able to really look at things when you don't have the deluge of all of the networks sort of all covering things in one way. And you can sort of look at it another way. And I can tell you this story is not what you think it is. It's a lot different. We're also going to talk about the five year anniversary of the January 6th insurrection, believe it or not, you know, six minus one, right, 2026, this will be the five year anniversary of that insurrection, that Reichstag fire moment that set the stage for Donald Trump to complete the insurrection with his reelection in 2024 to a second non consecutive term and all of the lawlessness that has flowed therefrom, whether it's ice, whether it is demonizing communities of color like the Somali community in Minnesota, whether it is unleashing hell on immigrants from Venezuela, from Cuba, from any brown country, letting in only white South Africans, going after the president of South Africa, lying about white genocide, you name it. But the lawlessness is the thing. And I think that our guests, who are some of the Heroes of January 6th Friends of the show, they're going to get to talk about that. So that's going to come up soon. But before we get to that, speaking of lawlessness, and we spoke on the last show about the trick that's being played to get people in the media to report on this story of Minnesota corruption, right? Of these daycare centers that were cheating the system during the pandemic and getting pandemic funds when there were no children in the daycare. And this big scandal in Minnesota which turns out to be a white lady who's already been indicted and is already being charged $5 million that she has to restore. And that was the ringleader of the whole thing. Something that's already been adjudicated, already been addressed by the government of Minnesota. And yet because of a right wing podcaster who seems to be everywhere where the right wants to have a scandal pop up that happens to deal with whether it's Ukraine or whether it's this, he shows up at daycare centers off hours and tries to open the door. The door doesn't open. He says, aha, I've caught the fraud. Or he shows up during operating hours, tries to open the door or look in the windows, tries to be a peeper. And because a random dude from Utah cannot go into a Minnesota daycare center and walk in and count the children, because he can't go in and personally care in this daycare center and count the kids inside, he's like, aha, I've caught the, I've caught the fraud. This 23 year old right wing YouTuber who's pulling a great deal of sort of scamology and scamation which makes the right very happy because it keeps them distracted from things like, I don't know, the Epstein files. They don't have to think about that, right? They can think about this so called rampant fraud that Somalis are perpetrating, which means it justifies them watching these cops style ISIS style videos of non white immigrants being tackled in the street because they can 1, 2, 3 it in their heads and say, well, there's all this fraud and it's all these immigrants and we have to get rid of them. And Trump is right, and let's not talk about the Epstein files. Well, with all of that happening, surprise, surprise, the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walls has announced he's out. He's not going to run for reelection. He dropped out of a bid for a third term, which is interesting. Donald Trump has been attacking Tim Walls. This is his tweet that he posted saying that he needs to focus on governing and not on running for reelection. And it would mean that due to the harassment of Donald Trump and maga, who's been personally blaming Tim Walls for this so called scandal involving literally like 70 Somalis out of 60,000 Somali adults and about 80,000 Somalis, Somalis and Somali Americans in Minnesota, because like 70 of them were previously tied to a crime that a white lady was perpetrating. As the ringleader, he's supposed to step down and he's responsible and he's responding to that, not by fighting back like so Many governors like J.B. pritzker and Gavin Newsom have. He's decided to fall back. So that means that Donald Trump has effectively defeated both parts of the ticket that ran against him in 2024. That's weird. And in my mind, what happened in 2024 really was just the culmination of what already was an attempted coup. One of the things we were not really allowed to say after a while at Miz now the Artist Formerly Known as msnbc. But it was a coup attempt, right? It was similar. And you know, we don't want to overuse the Hitler analogy, but that is what Adolf Hitler did. He attempted to foment a coup in Germany and then came back after being jailed. At least he was jailed for it. Came back after being jailed and then was elected chancellor. And we were off to the races with him running an autocratic form of government. And one of the themes of the show tonight is that nothing is new, right? All of these forms of autocracy repeat each other. They do the same kinds of things over and over again. And it's very difficult to sort of discern between the bad guys in these situations of autocrats. But they do all do similar things. They get into office, they change the rules in a constitution or just ignore the rules in the constitution and the judges, and they don't want to leave office. And what Donald Trump on January 6th of 2021 was doing is he was behaving like arrest all of the other dictators throughout history. And autocrats, they never want to leave office. You know, Vladimir Putin's still in office. He was supposed to leave office after a couple of terms. He stayed on. Nayib Bukele, the only Palestinian the right likes, who is the leader of El Salvador, supposed to stay for two terms. He ain't leaving. He switched up the constitution, got them bullied, basically his legislator to let him stay. Xi Jinping of China, supposed to be termed out. He ain't leaving. Right. But people who care about democracy, people like Tim Walls, they get a little hate and they fall back and they're out of here. The people like Trump, once they get a taste of power and the money they can accumulate personally, they never want to leave. And Donald Trump is really no different. And so I want to play for you guys a couple of clips, I think that sort of speak to what we were dealing with on January 6th. This is the first one that I want to play for you. And this is just a few clips. We're going to start with Jack Smith's testimony, that closed door testimony in which he's asked point blank by the House Judiciary members who are basically sort of trying to interrogate him on the right side and on the Democratic side just questioning him and trying to ask him if he really believes Donald Trump was responsible for January 6. He gives his answer and then we show some other video from that time. Here it is. So did you develop evidence that President.

Joy Reid (11:11)

But the fact is, on any given day, they're breaking the wall in many different ways, quite frankly, much of it at the instigation of the President of the United States. It is hard to believe that that happened and that if you look at polling now, a majority of Republicans do not believe that that was an insurrection, do not believe that that was even a crime, and do not believe that the people who ransacked the Capitol, looted the Capitol, committed burglary, in many cases, smashing equipment of journalists, smashing the windows, taking literal dumps inside of the Capitol, such that the people who clean the Capitol had to then clean up the human shit left behind by the insurrectionists. Most Republicans don't think that that was a crime. They think that, if anything, the woman that you heard speaking at the end of that set of tape, Nancy Pelosi, is the person responsible for January 6. They do not believe that the Capitol Police officers who got the hell beaten out of them, some of them who almost died as a result of it. Michael Fanone, who was a Metro Police officer, he wasn't even Capitol Police, he came over and responded with from the Metro Police Department, was tased multiple times and sprayed with bear spray and caught a heart attack twice because of what was done to him. But they believe that he was responsible for it, that Harry Dunn was responsible for it, that Aquilino Gonell, another Capitol Police officer, that they were responsible for that. Michael Hodges, who you saw in that video being squeezed in a door. Daniel Hodges, sorry, Daniel Hodges, who you saw being squeezed in that door, is that he was responsible, that they were responsible, that the police officers were the ones who actually perpetrated this, or that the FBI did it, that it was anyone other than Trump supporters, even though the people who were smashing in windows, taking shits inside of the Capitol, beating up police officers, hitting them with brass knuckles, carrying weapons where you're not supposed to carry weapons onto the Capitol, those people were the victims. Ashley Babbitt, who tried to throw herself through the Speaker's House barrier, that door smashing through a window after people smashed out the windows and tried to climb through it. On the other side of that door being members of Congress and their staffs who were sitting ducks for her. She was a military trained, military trained person. This is a person with military training. She would have been facing these unarmed. In many cases, 20 something year old staffers and members of Congress, they think she was a victim. She has a, her family has a major lawsuit happening, a wrongful death lawsuit. I believe she's already collected. Their family's already collected like $5 million or something. There's been talk that the people who smash through the Capitol should get reparations. I mean, they don't believe in reparations for anyone else. They certainly believe in them, these people that, that is the sort of bizarre world that we're in. Five years later. I want to note that Michael Fanone, Harry Dunn and and former U.S. capitol Police officer Aklino Gonell, they're advisory board members for something called Home of the Brave. It's a new initiative that highlights the harms of Trump's second term and urges people to speak out. Michael Fanon has written the following for his substack. He wrote a piece called I Defended the Capitol on January 6th. The rioters think they've won. Right now, Trump and his minions are destroying our democracy and wrecking the economy. For Trump, anyone who doesn't roll over for him, cops, prosecutors, politicians, anyone, is a deep state plant, a traitor, an anti American coward. They're expecting that everyone who opposes them will just shut up and take it, to accept their lies and roll over, to just go away. One thing you'll learn for being a cop for over 20 years is that you can't back down. A bully like Trump only responds to strength. You have to meet them head on or they just are going to roll you over. I don't face, I didn't face down the mob on January 6th just to back down now. I'm not going away and you shouldn't either. Aquilino Gonell has written the following. Rioters tried to kill me on January 6th. Trump pardoned them. Quote, in the end, I did my job. I did what was required of me and then some. I kept my oath and continue to do so, despite Trump's and the GOP's betrayals. I chose and continue to choose this country, just as I did when I arrived in America as a child, believing in the promise of this place. I put on two uniforms, first as a soldier, then as a police officer, because I believed America was special and worth fighting for. I fought, bled, and almost died at home and abroad against foreign and domestic threats, the ideals that our flag has long stood for. And for all of that, I was called a traitor by people committing actual treason. Danny Hodges is not formally a part of this project, but he's written in his own capacity for substack. For the substack quote, I'm a D.C. police officer. Here's what Trump's takeover is really about. Nothing is guaranteed in this world, and recent history should firmly illustrate that. That includes our country and way of life. Law and order are vital to any civilization. But Trump has somehow managed to convince a fraction of the country he is working toward these goals while actually subverting the Constitution at every opportunity. It's imperative that we understand the totality of what Trump is trying to accomplish with his deployment of the military and federal law enforcement into our cities. These are some of the voices of the heroes of January 6th. And joining me now are three of those voices. D.C. metro Police officer Daniel Hodges, former U.S. capitol Police officer Harry Dunn, and former D.C. metro Police officer Michael Fanone. I've been texting with Aquilino Gonell for the last several days, and I know he had some travel back and forth. He was going to join us tonight, but I'm just going to give him big ups in, in his app. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to see you, friends.

Harry Dunn (32:50)

Fuck you, Mitch McConnell. That's what I got to say to, to this. Fuck you, Mitch McConnell. I watched that speech live. And not only that, Michael Fanon, myself, Mrs. Sicknick was going around lobbying members of Congress, excuse me, members of the Senate. And while we were doing that, Mitch McConnell was secretly rallying them and asking them to do a favor for him and vote against X, Y and Z. While we wanted to meet with Mitch McConnell, he was too busy. So fuck that speech and fuck him. Sorry, I'm a little upset. I despise that man with every fiber in my body. I hate him. And he, yes, there are a lot of people that are responsible for where we are now, but that sole individual had the, the ability, a sole person, one person. Now, there are a lot of people that vote. And a lot of people that Donald Trump there, but he alone could have had Donald Trump never be mentioned in American history again. He had the opportunity and he, sorry, I know you asked me a bunch of other stuff, but that's what I wanted to talk about because he alone could have ended this nightmare. And but like Michael said, he was more concerned about changing the landscape of this, this country through his judicial nominations and the, the judges that he's appointed in this whole Supreme Court. It's just so, it makes me so angry because how often can one person make that big of a difference? One person could have rid us from Donald Trump as we know it. As they all have said in the past, we I'm done with them. I'm done. Kevin Carter. I'm done with them. This ain't about conservatism. Speaking of insurrection, let's talk about the definition of insurrection. A violent uprising against an authority or government. It doesn't say guns, it doesn't say bombs, it doesn't say people killed. A violent uprising. Police got their ass whooped. It was violence. They were trying to kill the. Kill the speaker of the House, kill Nancy Pelosi. They're trying to hang Mike Pence. So get the hell people are. I get so Damn mad. Mitch McConnell. That's what you got.

Joy Reid (43:07)

Thank you Daniel Hodges, Harry Dunn, Michael Fanon, and big ups to Aquilino G who was not able to be with us on today. And look, if we had a live show tomorrow, this is what we will be doing. We would be in all January 6th show if we had a show tomorrow. But of course, we are Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. But we wanted to make sure that we, at the top of this show, put everything else aside and took the time to give those men their flowers. Because these are our heroes and we have to support them. I want to note that this podcast is supported by the Defending Our Neighbors Fund. Now, across this country, immigrants are facing family separation, wrongful detention, and deportation without due process or even access to legal support. Just listen to this. In 2024 alone, there were more than 2.5 million immigration court cases with zero legal representation. That means millions of people were denied the most basic protection that we expect from our justice system, the right to a fair process. So powered by people like you, the Defending Our Neighbors fund is providing access to, to life saving legal aid to families in crisis. But they urgently need Your help to meet the unprecedented demand. The government is pouring billions of your taxpayer dollars into enforcement while slashing funding for legal aid. That makes your support more urgent than ever. So help defend your neighbors and keep families together in this country. You can donate now at defending our neighbors.org/fun. That's defending our neighbors.org fund. Thank you all very much. Okay, so let's get to the other big story. As Michael mentioned, there is a little crisis happening in Venezuela. Nicolas Maduro, who is the dictator of Venezuela, is now in custody. We have some video of him. He and his wife were arrested. He did manage to do like three outfit changes during the course of being kidnapped, as he has claimed as he pleaded guilty today in Brooklyn in federal court saying he was kidnapped. He and his wife, they have now been indicted. It's a sealed indictment, basically claiming that they are narco traffickers, they are drug traffickers. They pleaded not guilty. And he is right that he was kidnapped. Right. There is no one that I've heard. I listen to the Daily, I tried to listen to a bunch of legal analysts. No one has said that what the United States did is legal under international law. It was illegal. And yet Donald Trump wants to be portrayed as if he got Osama bin Laden. He wants the kind of laudatory coverage that President Barack Obama got. And he wants the iconic images to be streamed across mainstream media. He wants everyone talking about the daring raid. He wants this kind of just sort of awestruck coverage for himself. And because our media is so broken and compromised, how this Venezuela attack has been covered really depends on who owns the outlet. So I want you guys just to take a moment and peep the difference between the Jeff Bezos Washington Post and the New York Times. Look at the way they covered the same issue on the left side. This is both of their editorial pages. New York Times says Donald Trump's attack on Venezuela is illegal and unwise. That's true. But look at the Washington Post, owned by Jeff Bezos in quotes. President Donald Trump's decision to capture dictator Nicolas Maduro on Saturday is one of the boldest moves a president has made in years. And the operation was an unquestionable tactical success. The next step is ensuring that this triumph, this triumph sets Venezuela up for stability rather than chaos. Same issue, very different coverage. Now, this is according to Judd Legum's popular info. Here's a quote from popular info. Unfortunately, the military raid on Venezuela shows that some of our most storied journalistic institutions are not serving as a check on the Trump administration, but rather as collaborators. The Washington Post learned of plans for the raid in advance, but withheld them from publication at the administration's request. After it was over, the editorial board, which was recently overhauled to reflect the ideology of owner Jeff Bezos, praised the illegal raid as a major victory for American interest and a reason to celebrate. And CBS News under Bari Weiss didn't do much better, with Tony Ducopel as the CBS Evening News anchor, reporting on the raid in a very breathless fashion, just breathlessly reporting on the daring raid. It was pretty gross. Now, much of the coverage centered around one question in particular, and it's still sort of centering on that. And the question being, well, who will be running Venezuela now that the titular president is in U.S. custody? Secretary, who is in charge? Are you running Venezuela right now?

Joy Reid (52:17)

They don't necessarily have a plan. But let's just go back for just a moment. Nicholas Maduro, just so that you understand who he is. Okay. Nicholas Maduro, he was first elected, I'm gonna put that in scare quotes in 2013. And I think the first time he actually was legitimately elected, because he is the successor To Hugo Chavez and the sort of chavismo government are a left wing, left wing, sort of radical socialist government. And when Hugo Chavez first came in, this is the most oil rich country on earth. He becomes present more oil than Saudi Arabia, more oil than the United States, more oil than Russia, more oil than Nigeria. It is the most oil rich country on the planet. Okay, let's just start there. And when, when Julo Chavez comes in, he goes on this very, very socialist sort of plan of, you know, the idea at least behind it was that it was going to accrue to the benefit of the people. Now he's, you know, being. It didn't always work out that way, but that was what he said he was going to do. He's then succeeded after he dies of cancer. Nicolas Maduro then becomes a president. Becomes a president in 2013. In 2014, there were a wave of protests in Venezuela because there were food shortages, there were nationwide marches. Maduro's popularity plummeted. He was never as popular as Chavez, who tried to do a lot for the poor when he was president. Maduro, not so much. His popularity plummeted. There were protests in which people actually died. But Maduro continued to rule Venezuela through powers that were granted to him by the ruling party's legislature. He sworn in for a second term in 2019, despite international calls for him to step down and a devastating economic crisis. I'm reading from AP right now. 17 Latin American governments, United States and Canada, rejected the legitimacy of Maduro's second term at the time. Then there are protests in 2024 after he's declared winner a third time in another presidential election that most of the world believed was illegitimate. He had promised there would be free and fair elections, but the process was marred by by allegations of foul play and also him essentially forcing the opposition to flee the country. Relations between Venezuela and the US have been strained for decades. In 2017, the US Treasury Department. This is the sanctions that Rubio is talking about. In 2017, the US Treasury Department sanctions Maduro's personal assets and barred US citizens from dealing with him. This came a day after elections in Venezuela. So he personally is under sanctions. In 2018, there were widespread reports of U.S. officials and Venezuelan military officers planning a coup against Maduro. And the US imposed sanctions on Maduro's wife as well as well as other members of his inner circles. This all happens in 2018. Who's president at the time? Trump. Once Maduro was elected again in 2019, the US said it's not recognizing his legitimacy. Instead, the US recognized a guy named Juan Guaido who was the opposition leader at the time. He was the national assembly opposition leader. They say Guaido is the legitimate president. Now, this is important because it's not just Republicans who regard Mr. Guaido as the real president, because Maria Machado, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, was forced to flee. Guaido ran in her place, and according to the us, he really won. But Maduro supposedly stole the election. Okay, now in 2020, again, we're all this is. I'm talking about all of these things happening when Trump is president. The first time in 2020, the US Justice Department announced that they were charging Maduro with narco terrorism and other criminal charges, himself and senior leaders of his government. Narco terrorism is the involvement of terrorist organizations and insurgent groups in drug trafficking. So that is what they're claiming. Then you fast forward to Trump being president again. Now you go, then you have Biden, president for four years. They too, do not regard Maduro as a legitimate president. Then you get Trump back in office and they start bombing boats in the Caribbean Sea, supposedly to get at him. And then suddenly they act on this indictment, go in and arrest Maduro. That's not legal. If someone is indicted as a foreign leader, you can't just take the military and go in and get them. But I'm going to tell you in a little bit that this has been done before and the whole question of drugs and narco terrorism actually really isn't the question right so far. Because while Trump, right, has been clear that this is about the United States controlling Venezuela's vast oil supply, I'm going to play him again. Sorry, I know, but he's the. We're the baby monitor. Let's play Trump again, saying what we want. We want the oil.

Joy Reid (63:31)

Honduras, Diana. Oil. Let's just see is this thing on. Honduras does not have oil. I just looked up their. Their net oil reserves. Zero. So the arrest of Maduro and his wife, they're not about drugs, clearly. Right. Fentanyl isn't even made in Venezuela. Although I have to note in 1993, in a Peabody winning report, 60 Minutes confirmed that cocaine does come out and through Venezuela. And guess who was facilitating bringing it into the United States and distributed right here in order to fund their covert operations in Central America, including lining the pockets of the Contras, the paramilitary group in Nicaragua that the Reagan administration wanted in and spreading that cocaine throughout the United States, such that it kicked off the crack epidemic that destroyed black communities throughout the country. Just like the late Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Gary Webb said it did. Guess who did that? The CIA. So Venezuela has a long history of narco trafficking of cocaine. And the CIA used to be in bed with them in Conflado, as it were, because they wanted to facilitate the sale of cocaine inside the United States. Literally working with the Crips in la in some of whom were turning evidence and then distributing that crack cocaine throughout this country. And when Mr. Webb, Gary Webb, discovered that, he was ridiculed and said he was a liar and despite having a Pulitzer Prize, was essentially driven into isolation, lost his job and wound up committing suicide with not one, but somehow two gunshots to the head in the 1990s. So there's been drug trafficking coming out of Venezuela, and the US had no problem with it. But the other issue is that Venezuela, by the way, oil was discovered there in 1908, and by the 1930s, it was the biggest global exporter of oil in the world. So this isn't about drugs. It isn't about protecting the American people from drugs at all. It's certainly not about caring about crime. It's kind of about oil, but it's even more about empire. And while Americans are very skittish about owning up to the fact that we are an empire, we've always been an empire. Look at this cartoon from the year 1899. It's an American empire cartoon, and it shows the sort of growth of the American empire over time. And you can see when in the 1700s, it's a little baby and it only has a few little countries, and then it starts to grow bigger and bigger as it eats other countries, it grows bigger and bigger and bigger. In the second little thing there in 1803, it's now grabbed Louisiana from France after Toussaint Louverture and the Haitians kicked the ass of Napoleon Bonaparte, and France ran scared and sold us all of their holdings. And so the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, in which Thomas Jefferson buys up 40% of what's now the United States out west. And in 1819, you have the acquisition of Florida from Spain after Spain hightails it out of here, and we end up grabbing big chunks of what was Mexico. 1861, the union consisted of 34 states. Texas is then grabbed. The former slave republic of Texas is added. 1898, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger as they invade the sovereign nation of Hawaii and depose the queen, eat that up, and then start eating other countries even further out into the Pacific by 1899. Look at big, chunky America. He's got a big belly. Now. In 1899, we've eaten Cuba and the Philippines and Puerto Rico, made them into colonies, and voila, by 1899, we're officially a big old fat, chunky empire bent on stealing natural resources and exploiting them worldwide. Now, cotton, of course, was the first resource that we exploited in the ground here using slave labor and exported it worldwide. But also gold. Also gold. Remember when Robbie Jones was on the show and he pointed out this beautiful painting by the artist John Gast that is hung in the US Capitol, showing the angelic spread of the American empire to the west in land that used to be controlled by France and Spain, but which was stolen from the indigenous tribes. What triggered much of that theft were the various gold rushes that took place in the west in the 17th and 18th century. So essentially, every time one of these gold rushers, these prospectors, would discover gold, they would break treaties with the indigenous people that were there, kidnap indigenous people, mass murder them, kill their women and children, grab their children and cart them off into slavery or whatever. In many cases, simply sell them to slavery. And we're going to show this one. This is B10. It's going to show you how quickly the discovery of gold caused the United. Oh, it's not loading. Okay, well, that one won't load, unfortunately. It's a really great map, but it shows how quickly the United States began to just eat up. Oh, there it is. It just begins to eat and eat and eat and eat. Those are the gold rushes, and that is how the United States is built, by grabbing and eating up indigenous land. And much of that theft was prompted by the discovery of gold, such that the. The territory held by indigenous people shrank to almost nothing. And that is the American empire and how it was built. I want to show you another one. This is 10A. Jason, look at this map. This is one of my favorite maps to show because it is really fascinating to me. Look, first of all, and if you can squint and see it, how freaking far Hawaii is from the United States, look how far away it is. The American empire stretches between the United States and the Pacific, Where Columbus thought he was going, he was trying to get to the east, but he wound up in the Caribbean. He never got further than the Caribbean. But peep how freaking far some of these places are. The Philippines is really far from the United States. And the United States was out there eating and eating and eating and creating this empire that stretched almost all the way to China. That's a map from 1900 of what the American empire looked like. Now, by the turn of the 20th century, the US had a global empire no different from what Great Britain had at one time, if slightly smaller or no less expansionist than the Ottoman Empire, or no less aggressive. Now, we don't tend to think of ourselves that way, but the US Is an empire. And if exploiting territory and populations is what built this country's physical empire, and gold is what built the financial empire, what built up the personal fortunes of individual American oligarchs over this period of time, particularly during the Gilded Age, and after all the way up through the wars, when we suddenly needed things like planes and tanks, we what built those personal Fortunes was oil. Oil. So take a look at this Puck. You know, there's a Puck magazine now. It's named after an old Puck magazine that used to exist back at the turn of the century. This is a 1909 cartoon of President Teddy Roosevelt wrestling with the monstrous beast. That was J.D. rockefeller of Standard Oil. Now, Standard Oil was a massive company that J.D. rockefeller controlled. It was so wealthy that essentially was wealthier than the federal government. And it was so big that when it was finally broken up, when the trust busters finally got to it, it broke into pieces so numerous and vast, it included like, I don't know how old any of you are, but if you grew up with companies like Conoco, used to be something called Conoco, Texaco, Gas, dupont, which doesn't even make oil. It's a company that makes things that are made with oil. If you pull up B12, you can see there it is. This is what when you. Standard Oil was just one company that metastasized and birthed all these companies. Like back when I was a kid, there used to be some, you know, Texaco used to be a very common gas station in Colorado, but also Chevron. Chevron, the company that's about to really eat off of Venezuela. And whenever oil would be discovered in nearly any other country, again I mentioned Venezuela's first oil discovery was in about 1990. And anytime that you. That oil was discovered in your country, some division of Standard Oil was right at your doorstep offering to help to help you develop that crude into sellable oil. Now ask Saudi Arabia how that generally went. Meaning that you had this locked in partnership because Chevron or some company. Aramco. Saudi Aramco was the company created to exploit Saudi Arabia's oil. But then just ask Iran, which got stuck with the British version of it, bp. Or ask Iraq or Libya or Nigeria or Venezuela. You know how that generally worked out. You generally sort of were made into a colony. You became dependent on these American companies or these British companies to help get the oil out of the ground. And your country needed oil to survive. So you need lights to turn on in your country, but you need Chevron or Aramco or Texaco or one of these companies to come over and help you get the oil out of the ground, right? So that even if you have oil, you have to still sell it through the Americans in order to buy back the things you need to keep your country going. But ask what happens if you ever try to stop letting us help? Or if you, as a global south country, what we used to call the third World, try to nationalize your oil for the benefit of your own people and not us. It usually involves the use of the other big thing that the US developed at a higher level than anyone else, our military. But the really big development in the US becoming to oil what it had been to cotton, was linking the sale of oil anywhere in the world, even in the Soviet Union during the Cold War, was getting every country, starting with Saudi Arabia, to sell oil only in dollars. It was a deal that literally changed the U.S. economy at one point, seemingly for good forever. So I want you guys to take a couple minutes, just two minutes, to watch this explanation of something called the petrodollar.

Joy Reid (74:09)

That meeting took place on a battleship called the USS Quincy. And very few records were kept of that meeting. But. But Roosevelt promised the King of Saudi Arabia weapons and protection in exchange for the United States to have the exclusive right to develop oil from Saudi Arabia using dollars. Meaning if countries wanted to trade the most important commodity of all, oil, they needed to get their hands on dollars. And from that point on, oil would be priced in USD. And if a country tried to get their hands on oil without using dollars dollars, that country historically needed more freedom in their lives. Suddenly, countries that try to walk away right from the petrodollar, it gets a little dicey for you. So this is the part where I tell you that, remember we talk a lot about on the show how that 2024 election really was a critical election for a lot of reasons, right? One of them, of course, being the expiration of the massive tax cut, which is what the people who really own the country got from Donald Trump when he was president the first time. A tax cut they had wanted forever. A giant, enormous, unprecedented tax cut that mainly went to the super rich. They wanted that extended. It was going to expire last year on New Year's Eve, and they weren't confident that Kamala Harris would push to extend it and that Democrats, if they control the House and Senate, would extend it. That was one big thing. But the other big thing that we missed in mainstream media was that that deal between the US and the Saudis expired on June 9, 2024. It was the other big shoe to drop that year that impacted the election in ways that none of us in the mainstream media reported on because it really wasn't on our radar. But it really should have been that petrodollar agreement which stipulated that Saudi Arabia again would only price its oil and exports in US dollars and use the extra money, this is the key part from those oil sales, to invest in U.S. treasury bonds. So they would sell all the oil that was sold out of Saudi Arabia was priced in dollars. And then that money gets reinvested back into purchasing U.S. treasuries. It actually keeps the U.S. economy afloat. Every country was doing that. Even Russia was selling in petrodollars. Now in return, what the US provided the kingdom was with military support and defense. The end of that agreement in is a huge significant geopolitical, economic and financial big deal. Saudi Arabia, which is a petro state, similar to Venezuela, which is a petro state, meaning you don't really sell much else and do much else. Russia is a petro state. Petro states are countries who 90 plus percent of their economy is based on selling oil. And they call it a curse and a blessing. When you find oil in your economy, you have the blessing of having a very rich resource, but you have the curse of getting our attention. Because being a petro state leaves you vulnerable to US bullying. Because in order to make any move you need dollars, or at least you used to need dollars. And Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, and they learned, just like President Mossadegh of Iran before them, that the US will overthrow your government and have you killed and arrested if you try to leave us. It's giving Fatal Attraction. Strange girl being a naughty boy. I don't think having dinner with anybody's a crime, Daddy. I'm not gonna be ignored. Which is why the video that the media really should be playing today is not Trump suddenly switching from being anti war and anti dumb wars or whatever it was to or him, you know, rambling on about how we're going to sell oil. No, no, it's this clip a few weeks ago when he issued a threat to a group of global south countries who call themselves brics.

Joy Reid (78:42)

They wanted to undermine the dollar. Now you getting it. Let me show you. We're going to really quickly throw up this picture of the largest oil producers in the country. You see any BRICS countries on there? BRICS was originally Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, but it's now been expanded to include Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran and the United Arab Emirates. You see that? Look how big Brazil is on there. Look how big Russia is on there. Okay, you're getting where I'm going now. You picking up what I'm putting down. As the kids are saying, BRICS is the thing that could break the US dollar and the US economy. Because the only thing BRICS is lacking currently is a way to trade amongst themselves without using dollars at all. And because that Saudi Arabia agreement is broken, people are trading in yuan, the Chinese currency, they're trading in rubles, the Russian currency. And guess who was looking, on looking at building. And guess who's working on building that, that system? A new system that's not us, that's going through the blockchain. That would be Russia. In response to the US sanctioning them and locking them out of the global payment system to punish them for invading Ukraine so they can't use dollars to, to sell their oil, they started using something else. And the big question is, what if the Global south didn't need to be under our thumb anymore? If they didn't need to trade in dollars and they didn't need to then invest the profits back into buying U.S. treasuries? What happens if the age of free money for us plus cheap oil and no consequences ends? And what if we can't just kill any leader who tries to stand against us because they're standing alone? Because the countries that want out of our global financial empire team up. We can't kill them all. The big mistake that was made by people like Libya's, Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein is that they were standing by themselves. But if a bunch of different countries join brics and decide to have a different payment system based on the Russian model, and they go around us and leave our treasuries all alone. And guess who was playing footsie with brics? Venezuela. Maduro. And let me play one more clip before we bring our guest in. His predecessor, Hugo chavez, back in 2006 at the UN General assembly had this to say about an American president who was very much in favor of regime change. I think that the first people who should read this book are our brothers and sisters in the United States, because their threat is in their own house. The devil is right at home. The devil. The devil himself is right in the house. And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday, the devil came here. Right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today. This table that I am now standing in front of. Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the President of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here talking as if he owned the world, truly, as the owner of the world. I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement. Okay, we can leave there. Let's note that Hugo Chavez, by the way, did not rig the election in 2020. He was very much dead. But he did call a previous US President the devil. Joining me now is journalist Paola Ramos, our good friend, the brilliant Palmos. Thank you so much for being here, Joy.

Joy Reid (98:40)

There you go. And at this moment, BRICS is the alternative. And we weren't able to do it as much as I wanted to @miss now. But I'm telling y', all, BRICS is what we're going to be talking about a lot on this show because the global south is sick of being bullied. They're tired of being colonized. And so you're seeing African countries tell France, Britain and the United States exactly what Harry Dunn told Mitch McConnell. Fuck you. Fuck off. And if they. And the only fear and last thing I'm doing before we bring in our next guest. And yes, it's moral Monday, so we have to keep our cousin to a minimum. He's a cussing pastor, hopefully still. Is that the reason Muammar Gaddafi got got? And it's sad for me that it was done by a black president, but once you're president, all that stuff you said before about no more war goes out the window and you start to work on the project. And the project is ensuring the financial and fiscal viability of the United States. And if the petrodollar falls and people start feeling like they could just use any old currency, not the dollar, our economy collapses. All this cheap living that we've been doing, the inflation rate is high partly because of this and the mistake Muammar Gaddafi made because he had a socialist state in which they were giving free school, free health care, all of that good stuff with all the big time oil. But his goal was to have Africa, the 52 nations of Africa, all trade in one currency, a gold dinar. And that. That one gold dinar, that currency would replace the dollar, the euro, and they would trade amongst each other in their own currency. He got yapped. So did Saddam Hussein, who thought he could trade in Euros. What was the first thing that the United States did when our viceroy took over? Iran, Iraq. We forced them to flip back and put in their constitution they have to trade in dollars. This is about dollars. It's about dollars. To Moral Monday, though. And let's go ahead and bring in our Moral Monday captain of our Moral Monday ship, Bishop Will William Barber of repairs of the breach. Bishop Barber, apologies for all of our cussing on this Moral Monday, but sometimes, my brother, it's so bad out here that you gotta cuss a little bit.