MAGA Bombshell: “It Wasn't Supposed To Be a White Mom" | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Joy Reid Show

Episode: "MAGA Bombshell: 'It Wasn't Supposed To Be a White Mom'" (Aired January 13, 2026)

Host: Joy-Ann Reid
Featured Guests: Tiffany Cross, Michael Fanon, Paul Butler, Lev Parnas

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Overview

This episode of The Joy Reid Show delivers a searing, wide-ranging discussion of the MAGA-era crackdown and its deadly toll, centering on the police killing of Renee Good—a white mother of three—in Minneapolis. Joy and her guests break down the realpolitik and propaganda around the shooting, probe media complicity, dissect the Trump administration’s drive for chaos (“Project 2025”), and explore both the structural and personal fallout rippling through the Black community and American media. The episode features forceful debate, personal storytelling, and sharp media analysis, culminating in the show’s trademark blend of cathartic solidarity and incisive critique.

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Main Themes

• Political/Cultural Lens: The death of Renee Good seen as an accelerationist tactic, not an aberration, in the MAGA playbook—connection to a broader crackdown and narrative manipulation.
• Media Accountability: News coverage, bothsideism, and the dangerous elevation of non-experts—especially as it impacts Black women and marginalized communities.
• Black Women in Media: Navigating racism, misogyny, and career obstacles in broadcasting, framed by a heartfelt segment with Tiffany Cross and a preview of her new book.
• Solidarity & Survival: The show signs off with a collective call for community support and joy amid political darkness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Killing of Renee Good as Political Narrative

• Joy details massive protests in response to the fatal shooting of Renee Good, a white woman killed by ICE agent Jonathan Ross. The incident is not easily spun into old culture-war tropes, undermining MAGA narrative strategies.
• Lev Parnas (19:12, 21:08): Based on insider sources, Trump’s team expressed outrage not for the victim, but because “this was not a Black woman, not a brown woman, not an undocumented immigrant” and is thus harder to exploit/manipulate for their agenda.
  • Quote: "This wasn't supposed to be a white American mom." (Lev, 21:08)
• Discussion of the right-wing mobilization of a $200,000+ fundraising campaign for the agent (backed by figures like Megyn Kelly & Bill Ackman), coupled with explicit antisemitic dog-whistles about Minneapolis’ Jewish mayor.

2. Accelerationism & Manufactured Chaos

• Joy and Lev Parnas connect current events to deliberate strategies to provoke violence, not unlike those during BLM protests. Right-wing infiltrators (“accelerationists”) stoke chaos, trying to depict peaceful protestors as violent, thus justifying state overreach. (05:00–08:40)
  • Quote: "Chaos is not a failure for them. It is the mechanism." (from Lev’s reporting, 07:20)
• Lev unpacks “Project 2025” as the pretext for expanding executive power in response to manufactured unrest.

3. Law Enforcement Analysis: Use of Force & Policy Violations

• Michael Fanon, former DC Metro cop (22:57), eviscerates the ICE agent's actions:
  • The agent could have de-escalated, was not in danger, and broke protocol (ICE use-of-force policy strictly forbids shooting into a vehicle to prevent escape).
  • Quote: “There were plenty of opportunities in this situation for that agent to de-escalate... The justification...doesn’t add up.” (Fanon, 23:00–24:58)
  • The agent’s casual, callous post-shooting behavior is condemned as totally outside police norms.
• Paul Butler (31:50) draws a clear legal distinction between the state’s quick, public prosecution of Derek Chauvin for George Floyd's murder and the obstruction facing local authorities who might bring charges against Agent Ross.

4. Federal Obstruction & State-Level Legal Challenges

• New York Times reporting that Minnesota and Illinois are suing the Trump regime over ICE deployments (22:09)
• Butler: State prosecution of Ross possible, but the feds are “shutting out the local investigators from all of the evidence” (37:29), making accountability elusive.

5. Protests, Community Response, and Media Manipulation

• Extensive use of live protest audio and testimony, juxtaposing state violence with community resilience (08:50–17:17).
• Past parallels drawn to activist infiltration and narrative distortion during BLM.

6. Media Critique: CBS and the Problem of Bothsideism

• Joy and Tiffany Cross lambast CBS and other mainstream outlets for reducing questions of violence/terrorism to “we just need to hear each other” platitudes. (81:00–83:11)
• Joy singles out Tony Dokoupil for his deferential, “salute” coverage of politicians like Marco Rubio, and for equating outrage at a killing with demands for border security.
  • Quote: “One side believes that ICE shouldn’t shoot women in the face. The other side believes they should. I’m sorry, how are we gonna live together?” (Joy, 82:34)

7. Deconstructing Stephen A. Smith: Platforming Harm

• The show features a long segment confronting the role of Stephen A. Smith as a Black media figure repeatedly weaponized against other Black people, especially Black women (50:31–77:44).
• Tiffany Cross (86:40): “They will elevate a useful fool every single time... A real Black man who actually has some intellect and knowledge, they will silence every single time.”
• Joy critiques Smith’s hypocritical stances, his cozying up to the right while reserving harshness for Black progressives:
  • Quote: “You got a lot of smoke for Black folks, but when it comes to Charlie Kirk...you have no smoke for them.” (Joy, 66:18)

8. Tiffany Cross: Book, Media Analysis, and Black Women's Survival

• Extended interview with Tiffany Cross about her forthcoming book "Love Me" (out May 5), personal/political loss, and the unique pressures faced by Black women in the industry.
• The cancellation of her show (and Joy Reid’s past firing), the systematic elimination of Black female voices, and the vital necessity of independent Black media outlets.
• Quote: “We pour love into our career, our men, and our country, and it just feels unrequited.” (Tiffany, 105:00)
• Crowd-sourced community book buy-in to propel her to bestseller status.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• 07:20, Lev Parnas: “Chaos is not a failure for them. It is the mechanism. Because chaos is how they sell Project 2025...justify emergency powers...silence opposition.”
• 21:08, Lev Parnas: “This wasn’t supposed to be a white American mom.” [Trump’s team, upon hearing about the victim’s identity]
• 23:00, Michael Fanon: “There were plenty of opportunities for that agent to de-escalate...at no point was his life in danger.”
• 24:58, Fanon: “To say that he was injured, he walked away from that incident unharmed...talking on his cell phone...something I’ve never experienced.”
• 31:50, Paul Butler: “The video is a textbook example of what police officers are trained not to do...ICE regulations say officers should avoid deliberately placing themselves in positions where they are at risk and then using that as an excuse to shoot.”
• 37:29, Butler: “It’s legally possible for the state to prosecute Agent Ross...but as a practical matter, since the state is being shut out of all the evidence, that prosecution will be quite difficult.”
• 71:10, Joy Reid: “Without people willing to agitate, there would be no President Obama...what happens to Black people almost always eventually happens to everyone.”
• 86:40, Tiffany Cross: “They will elevate a useful fool every single time...But a real Black man who actually has some intellect and knowledge, they will silence every single time.”
• 124:45, Teyana Taylor (Golden Globes): “To my brown sisters and little brown girls watching tonight...Our light does not need permission to shine. We belong in every room we walk into. Our voices matter and our dreams deserve space.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 02:20 | Joy connects chaos to Trumpian strategy; protestor: “these motherfuckers are crazy” | | 05:00 | Analysis of right-wing accelerationism, co-opting of peaceful protest | | 19:12 | Lev Parnas: reporting from Trump inner circle, “they want riots” | | 22:57 | Michael Fanon critiques ICE use of deadly force | | 31:50 | Paul Butler on prosecuting ICE agent, parallel to George Floyd case | | 50:31 | Stephen A. Smith segment: attacks on Black women, Joy’s pointed response | | 86:40 | Tiffany Cross on media, Stephen A. Smith, Black women’s solidarity | | 105:00 | Tiffany Cross on book “Love Me” and Black women’s experience | | 124:45 | Teyana Taylor’s Golden Globes speech: “We belong in every room...” |

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Tone

The episode maintains a fiery, unfiltered, often personal tone—balancing anguish and anger with humor, solidarity, and cathartic joy. Guests and host speak with urgency and authenticity, especially as they name names, cite evidence, and push back on media gaslighting. Banter between Joy and Tiffany Cross is deeply affectionate and full of mutual support.

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Conclusion

The episode is a rallying cry for accountability—in policing, media, and movement-building. It calls out the tactical uses of chaos and manufactured narratives, urges listeners to support independent Black voices, and celebrates every act of resistance and solidarity, no matter how small. The call to action: support each other, tell the truth, and do not allow those in power—or their enablers in media—to define reality, stifle dissent, or divide Americans against one another.

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Transcript

[Joy Reid]

Okay.

Oh, hold on a second. I gotta turn down the sound over here on this computer. Welcome to everybody. Thank you for tuning in to the Joy Reid show. We appreciate each and every single person whether you are listening on the stack, the sub stackers. Big up guys. Also big up to all of you who are listening on YouTube. We appreciate everybody. Dead Comics, I think it's called Deadcom Comics, said that his 100 year old grandma loved the show. Was my biggest fan. Not a huge fan of the smiley avatar though. But we appreciate you guys. Whether you enjoy our avatars or not. I'm trying to figure out how to mute this computer. Like me and computers, me and the whole technology thing.

Always the audio volume down.

Yeah, I'm going to have to do that. I'm going to do that. Welcome to everybody that's watching. Please be sure to hit like and subscribe. We appreciate each and every one of you. We want to make sure that everyone feeds the algorithm. You got to feed the beast. Big ups to Angela Yee for having me on her show. And it was really fun being on Up. Way Up. Way up with Angela Yee. That was really fun. That was today at 1 o'. Clock. If you missed my appearance on Way up with Angela Yee, you can check it out online. We also have clips of it going up on all of the social media so that you can check that out as well. We got a big show tonight. We are going to be dealing with this mess in Minnesota. I'm also going to have some thoughts. Sorry, I have my retainer in some thoughts on Stephen A. Smith and the things that he had to say about me and about Jasmine Crockett and Tiffany Cross makes her the Joyride show debut. Of course, she and I have been on TV four years together, but she has been busy working on a really special project which is why she has not yet been on the show. And that project she's going to talk about tonight and that is a new book that she's got coming out with and I am super excited about that and about having her on the show. I know the chat has been asking for Tiffany for a while. So your wish is our command now. So with all that's happening out there, I know what the world kind of feels like to you guys right now. And it's basically this because there is.

[Unidentified Protester]

So much about this moment that is trying to make people feel like they've lost their mind when in fact these motherfuckers are crazy.

[Joy Reid]

I think this whole administration has completely lost their fucking mind. And I think we're all gonna die.

I mean, pretty much that's how everybody feels, right? Like, I kind of feel like that's how everybody is feeling right now. And that is why I think you're seeing these massive protests that make up.

All of the matters.

Here. Just some of them. I mean, they're huge. They're everywhere. This is just three cities, New York City, Minneapolis and Philadelphia. But they've been really everywhere in response to the shooting death, the killing of Renee Good. As you look at just those incredible images of the protests that have been all over the country, I will note that her killer, ICE agent Jonathan Ross, who weirdly enough is married to a Filipina you can't make it up, has a Give Send Go fundraiser promoted by right wing Alpha News, which is the same outlet that released his cell phone video of shooting Renee Goode and then calling her a dumb B word as he casually walked away from a scene where MAGA insists he was run over by her car. That fundraiser has already crossed north of $200,000 and drawn attempts to block it by, you know, normal people who think he actually should be charged with murder. And per conservative leading media site Mediaite, his online fundraiser frames Ross as a heroic law enforcement officer acting in self defense during a case chaotic encounter. The page has attracted attention not just for high profile supporters like Megyn Kelly, who's given to the fund, as well as hedge fund billionaire Bill Ackman, the anti DEI guy of course, but also for copy in the fundraiser that portrays the shooting as an act of valor against quote, domestic terrorism, while casting Minneapolis as a lawless sanctuary city. I mean, it is a sanctuary city, but it's not lawless. But the language goes further per Mediaite, by singling out the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fry, and singling out the fact that he's Jewish, while blaming his criticism of ICE for allegedly inciting violence. CNN's Jake Tapper noticed that. Noticed it. And posted on X Twitter linking to the promotion of the fundraiser by Alpha News and asking simply, why does this mention that Mayor Fry is Jewish? One wonders why. I think we can all figure out what this man is trying to do. There's some other additional reporting out there that talks about his past defense of white nationalist kind of memes and things that he has said some things in the past that indicate that he might be sympathetic to those things. I don't have that additional reporting, but that is stuff that our next guests can probably get into. Meanwhile, here is some truly alarming reporting from our friend Lev Parnas on His substack, which quote, I'm going to quote Lev directly, and this is Lev speaking on his substack quote. I'm hearing directly from a source with firsthand access to conversations inside Trump's inner circle, including Donald Trump himself and Stephen Miller. And I want to be crystal clear about this part. These are their words, not mine. This is Lev. Again, my source tells me there is outrage inside Trump world, not because an American citizen was killed, not because a mother of three is dead, not because the country is hurting, but because this case does not fit the narrative that they were counting on. The disbelief being expressed, including, according to my source, is that this was not a black woman, not a brown woman, not an undocumented immigrant. They are openly discussing how much harder it is to spin, how much harder it is to provoke chaos, how much harder it is to justify a crackdown when the victim is a white American woman with no criminal record. Again, their word, not mine, per Lev. What they're talking about, Lev writes. What they're talking about right now is not unity, not protecting American citizens, not accountability. They are talking about how to steer the narrative, how to redirect outrage, how to manufacture fear, and how to push propaganda hard enough to achieve one overriding goal, power without limits. They want riots. They need riots. They are counting on violence because violence gives them permission. This is why provocateurs are being pushed into places like Minneapolis. This is why online agitators are trying to inflame tensions. We did see the other day a group of real protesters following a guy who burned an American flag and then bounced like he was pretending to be part of the protest, and he burned the American flag. And then he took off, and he was followed by some of the actual protesters who said, hey, why did you leave? Why are you wearing a full mask? That's not normal behavior. If you're one of the protesters, who are you actually? Are you an accelerationist? Are you trying to cause trouble? Because that's what it looked like to them. And this did happen, by the way, during the Black Lives Matter movement, after George Floyd was killed, there were all these huge protests in the street. And accelerationists, people who were trying to cause chaos, would show up to the protests and break windows. They would break a window wearing all black. They would be wearing all black and a face mask. They would break a bunch of windows and then bounce and then try to make it look like the Black Lives Matter protesters were the ones who broke the windows. They were the ones causing violence, but they would cause the violence, right? This is a thing that they do on the right to try to make it appear that peaceful protests are actually violent. So Lev Parnas let me go back to what he wrote. He said, this is why every lever of decent disinformation is being pulled at once. Chaos is not a failure for them. It is the mechanism. Because chaos is how they sell Project 2025. Chaos is how they justify emergency powers. Chaos is how they silence opposition, which is why they are escalating.

What's going on? What's up with you? What's up, man? What y' all with me? I don't know what they owe me, bro. I got cameras. I got cameras. Y tweaking. You got the right to what? Y' all got the right to what? I got cameras.

[Tiffany Cross]

Shame on you.

[Joy Reid]

Listen, have y' all not learned from.

[Unidentified Protester]

The past couple of days?

[Joy Reid]

Have you not learned?

Learned what?

[Tiffany Cross]

What's our lesson here? What do you want us to learn?

[Joy Reid]

Following Federal agents.

Give me.

Sir, sir, sir, sir.

Settle down.

[Tiffany Cross]

Anybody in the car? Did you take a picture of my life?

[Joy Reid]

Are you okay?

What's your name? Back up, please. Back up. You doing all right?

Huh?

I'm not doing all right.

What's that?

I'm not doing all right. I'm not doing all right.

Back up.

[Unidentified Protester]

Yo, see that where they're recording right here.

[Joy Reid]

What's up? Doing back up.

[Paul Butler]

You good?

[Tiffany Cross]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, back up. I'm walking here.

Back up. Like that.

Good shot. And that's not a nice guy.

[Paul Butler]

The you and I you gonna do.

[Joy Reid]

Hey, you guys, you, huh? None of your business. That's what wall there.

[Lev Parnas]

All right.

[Joy Reid]

Every single one of y'. All.

[Paul Butler]

Look at that.

[Joy Reid]

Get a go ahead. Take a pick right there.

[Paul Butler]

Come on.

[Joy Reid]

Hey, don't touch him.

Don't touch him.

What are you doing? Come on, yo. Yeah, he worked.

Whatever. What's your name?

Jonathan. I'm mar, a us citizen.

[Michael Fanon]

Driving erratically.

[Joy Reid]

Very dangerous to the public. How you doing? Good.

[Unidentified Protester]

How are you? Interfering with her operations.

[Joy Reid]

You could be arrested under 18 USC 111. We will arrest you.

[Michael Fanon]

You've been interfering with her operation.

[Joy Reid]

We're following us yesterday. What you're doing, dude? Numerous times.

Yes, you are. No, I am not.

You continue, you will be in handcuffs. You will be arrested. You will be prosecuted.

[Paul Butler]

Code 111.

[Joy Reid]

Get that through your head, dude.

Numbers.

You're just gonna do a good job. I'm not breaking the law, and you know it. There's a lot not breaking the law, and you know it. Never got in front of everyone.

Never one more Time.

And I will put you in handcuffs one more time. Keep it up. Get the off. No, no. I'll stand right here, pal.

Right here.

[Unidentified Protester]

All day.

[Joy Reid]

If I touch you, then you're gonna arrest me, right?

All day. Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You.

[Joy Reid]

You're worthless.

Worthless.

[Lev Parnas]

You.

[Joy Reid]

You.

[Paul Butler]

You.

[Joy Reid]

Are you. Yeah. Hold your dogs back.

[Paul Butler]

Hold your.

[Joy Reid]

There was also an unk who went at these guys and called them the biggest B words that he's ever seen and if he's ever seen one. We thought. I thought we had that video. We don't have it, but it was great. He was in a fur, and he was. He was in a full fur coat and is a Vietnam veteran who gave it to him. But. And actually, it might be in this video because they've also not gotten the riots that they want. But they are getting confronted, they're getting opposition. Take a look.

[Paul Butler]

How do I know you're us citizen?

[Joy Reid]

Where were you born? Are you a US Citizen or you're naturalized? You're naturalized for years.

Africa.

Get the out of our city.

[Paul Butler]

I'm not going to get out of your city.

[Joy Reid]

Number one. Yes. Get the out. Yes, you clearly. Oh, what does that say? We're in control. Yeah, you're a Nazi. You work for the Orange F. Yeah, yeah. Get the out of our city, you Nazi piece of.

Number one.

I'm not going to number one. I'm not going to get out of here.

This team.

Because I live here. Oh, you want me? You want to make. Okay, good for you. Good for you. You want to make.

[Michael Fanon]

Why is it so important for you.

[Joy Reid]

Guys to be out here? My dad fought in World War II.

[Michael Fanon]

Battle of Bulge.

[Joy Reid]

He'd be rolling his grave to see what's happened to America now. And America needs to hold up a mirror to see what we've become. This is just so un American to see Americans assaulting Americans like this. And these people here is. What's America protesting? The brutality of what's happening in their cities and streets. And we felt we'd never seen border agents before. We took the light rail down from downtown. We live downtown. And we were trying to protest what happened yesterday, that bloody shooting. But then to see what border agents are like. And this is our first exposure to border agents pushed down the snowdrift. You know, we weren't part of anything. Aggressively assaulted and like, okay, that's what this is. That's what border patrol are. And they want fear. They want to project that intimidation. And that's frightening for all of America.

[Tiffany Cross]

J.

[Joy Reid]

A little bit more.

A little bit more Lift your wife. Is that pop? You guys are all bitches.

You can't do to me.

You can't do a thing. Get the out of here.

Get the out.

Nobody wants you here, right? Get the up.

[Tiffany Cross]

Right here.

[Joy Reid]

You heard it from me.

That's right, people.

I hope you can see through those thick ass glasses that you up. You stand there and sanction this and they kill a woman. They're ruining businesses that have been here for generations. They're up this community. You can go home safe. But no, you're here to terrorize this city. A bunch of if I've ever seen a bunch, and I'm telling you to your face, and if you don't like it, fuck you.

Pardon the cussing, but I had to show unkng. Thank you. I'm glad that clip was there. Freedom News tv. Big up to them. CBC News, BT newsroom. All the independent media who are capturing what's happening. It's giving night riders of the Ku Klux Klan, but meets the Black Panthers. Because what's happening is people are not responding to the terrorism that is being inflicted. You see the intensity with which these people are marauding communities, as J.D. vance promised. They're going door to door, they're banging on people's doors, they're knocking out people's car windows, dragging people out into the streets. It's almost as if they are sort of renegade, marauding through communities, trying to, as Lev Parnas reported, get people to react violently to them. It's as if they want people to react violently to them stepping in front of cars, wanting to be confronted so that they can then get violent. But what's happening is the terroristic tactics are not making people more fearful. They're actually prompting people to fight back. Joining me now, former Metro Police officer, Author, analyst and January 6th hero, Michael Fanon, Paul Butler, Albert Brick, professor in law at Georgetown University Law center, and the aforementioned Lev Parnas. Thank you all for being here. Lev, I've quoted your substack, so I am going to start with you because the accelerationism that we saw during the Black Lives Matter protests were when a couple of accelerations would show up, break a window, create chaos to make it look like the BLM folks were violent. But now it appears the accelerationists are ICE, who I will note, their training was reduced to 47 days, halved to 47 days in honor of Donald Trump. Your thoughts?

[Lev Parnas]

I mean, Joy, thanks for having me. It's just crazy what I was hearing today when I was on the phone and listening to, I mean it all started off when, you know, I was speaking to one of my sources and talking about finding out what Trump's reaction was to the peaceful protest. Because yesterday what we saw was incredible, restrained, incredible protest. People coming out across the country, letting their voices be heard, but doing in a peaceful manner and staying away from the protester, like Nick Sorter and others that I've documented that have actually driven their cars into, you know, some of these protests to agitate. And that's when I heard, you know, when he started telling me about, you know, what was going on inside the White House, how they're watching this, like basically a reality show and using words like I, like I said, it's their words, not mine. Quoting, saying, you know, waiting for that Joy George Floyd moment, George Floyd riot, and waiting for that acceleration to be able to show, I mean, words like, show them the might of the American power they have. The left has not seen that. Like, like talking about the left like we're not American citizens, like we're not equal to them, like it's a different group. And the reason why I decided to write that letter is because a lot of people think that, you know, this is a black or brown matter. And I want to make sure people wake up because this is not a black or brown or undocumented matter, because we're all, as Americans do not fit in their role of what Project 2025 is about. It's about a group of small percentage of white nationalist Christian nationalists. And I mean Christian nationalists, not all Christians, but this group of people which majority of Americans don't fit into that mold because most of our are either immigrants or come from a different mode.

[Joy Reid]

So let me ask you before I don't, I don't want to interrupt you, but that this plan which you're laying out was interrupted. Renee Good. Happens to be a white Christian mom. Talk about that for a moment.

[Lev Parnas]

I mean, yeah, exactly. I quoted, I said this was, I mean, one of the person, I don't know if it's Stephen Miller or somebody, said this wasn't supposed to be a white American mom. Meaning that, you know, with the ICE raids and the targeting they're doing there, you know, if this was, they were hoping that this would be their black or brown. If the, I mean, again, I want to say, clearly, I'm not saying that Donald Trump wanted to have somebody killed or wanted somebody shot, but the use of the moment kind of, you know, if this was an undocumented, if this was a black or brown woman, that they felt that that's when they would be able to go. What they weren't able to do in the first administration is go after the BLM organization, go after people, you know, start putting it agitators. Like they tried to go after Antifa, which doesn't exist, but BLM they were trying to go after. And that's why if it was a black or brown or undocumented, they felt the riots would not the rights of protest excuse would turn into riots with agitators. And then they could send in the military might.

[Joy Reid]

Gotcha. Let me point out to the audience that New York Times is reporting that Minnesota and Illinois have now separately sued the Trump regime over these ICE deployments, saying they're unconstitutional. Let me go to you, Michael Fanon, for some analysis. As a law enforcement officer. Can you talk a little bit about the appropriate use of force in these situations? Because they're trying to claim on the other side that it was Renee Good who was menacing the officers with her car. But yet I was reading today that the federal as well as most state law enforcement rules are that you are supposed to attempt to step out of the way of a vehicle and you're not supposed to shoot into a vehicle simply because someone is trying to flee. Your thoughts?

[Michael Fanon]

Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think that everybody should take into account universally, regardless of whatever police department or federal agency you're a part of, if you, your, your first rule is to de escalate the situation when possible. There were plenty of opportunities in this situation for that agent to de escalate the situation. But just from analyzing the videos that I've seen that have been readily available to include what CBP and ICE put forward, which was the video that shows Renee Good and her demeanor in the moments prior to being murdered by this agent, in that she is non confrontational. The justification that was given by Kristi Noem in which she said that, you know, this Renee Goode was impeding their investigation or impeding their activities while there were multiple ICE agents that were allowed to proceed. In fact, she was waving them in front of her vehicle in the moments prior to this agent firing. And it was clear through his demeanor that this agent was agitated. He was. His ego had been bruised by the fact that this woman was filming him, which is her constitutional right to do. And he decided, as well as at least one other agent that they were going to try to rip her from inside of this vehicle. And she reacted, I think, the way that most Americans would, especially having seen the way that ICE and CBP conduct themselves under this administration. And she fled, and it was clear that she was fleeing. You know, there's been plenty of analysis. And, you know, the tires were pointed away from this agent, and at no point in time, when he chose to fire his weapon, whether it was the first shot, the second shot, or the third shot, was his life in danger or were any of the other agents lives in danger. I would also note that no other agent pulled their weapon. No other agent fired.

[Joy Reid]

Fired.

[Michael Fanon]

And to say that he was injured as the president of the United States did, as Kristi noem did, he walked away from that incident unharmed. He was talking on his cell phone. He was filming the incident with a cell phone in one hand, which is something I've never experienced in my time as a law enforcement officer.

[Paul Butler]

That.

[Michael Fanon]

That's not something that's taught. And I think in any instructor would say you're acting like an absolute child and a buffoon and a clown and putting yourself at a tactical disadvantage by doing that. And so, yeah, I mean, I can't see anything that this agent did that's in line with police policy or any training that I was ever exposed to as a law enforcement officer.

[Joy Reid]

Let's just play this video real quick. I cut together three clips that I think reinforce everything. Mike. That you've just said. Let's play that real quick. Jason, this is a five.

[Tiffany Cross]

No.

[Joy Reid]

No. Shame.

[Tiffany Cross]

Shame.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, my God. What the.

[Tiffany Cross]

What the.

[Joy Reid]

You just. What the. Did you. You are a criminal. I'm not mad at Floyd. Show your face. I'm not mad.

[Tiffany Cross]

That's okay.

[Joy Reid]

We don't change our plates every morning. Just so you know.

[Tiffany Cross]

It'll be the same plate when you.

[Joy Reid]

Come talk to us later. That's fine.

U. S. Citizen, you want to come at us?

You want to come at us?

[Unidentified Protester]

I say go get yourself some lunch, big boy.

[Joy Reid]

Go ahead. Get out of the car.

Get out of the. You.

Shame.

Shame. Shame. Shame. Mike throne, the three things I want to ask you about to zero in on. Number one, how. What is the. The way that law enforcement is trained to react when you're being berated because you're in a situation where people are berating you, People are attacking you verbally because of what you're doing? Right? That's the situation these ICE agents found themselves in. That's number one. Number two, am I wrong in saying that the reason that officers are told not to fire into someone's car is because what happened to her is what would happen to anyone? Your foot hits the gas. She could have hit a child in the street. There could have been another person in the street. She could have crashed into a house. And then the third piece of it, what do you make of him shooting her and then calling her the B word and then strolling off?

[Paul Butler]

Yeah.

[Michael Fanon]

Well, first, if you'll just indulge me, Joy, I want to read for you the use of force policy for ICE and CBP, as well as all other federal agencies. It's 1:16.200. And I would ask that anyone who's watching this go to the DOJ website and pull up the use of force policy. It's the use of deadly force and prohibited restraint techniques. And I'm going to read the first two, you know, bullet points, because they're the most applicable. Deadly force may not be used solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing suspect. In this particular case, if you were going to call Renee Goode a suspect, if you were going to say, and I don't believe that she was in guilty of any particular offense at this point, if you were going to say that, you can't use deadly force solely to prevent her escape, which is one violation that this agent engaged in. The second is firearms may not be discharged solely to disabled moving vehicles. Specifically, firearms may not be used, excuse me, discharged at a moving vehicle unless a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle. An example of that. If Renee Goode was armed with a handgun and was shooting at the agent, the agent would have been authorized to use deadly force against Renee Goode, not against the vehicle, but against Renee Goode until he neutralized that threat. Second, the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious bodily injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist. Why is that important, Joy? Because even if you say she was going to use that vehicle to assault us, as Kristi Noem said moments after this event took place, what did that agent do? He sidestepped the vehicle before he even fired the first shot. That's what a reasonable officer would do. They wouldn't stand in front of a vehicle because there's no way that your bullets or your body are going to prevent that vehicle from running you over. And so clearly, what this agent did was in violation of departmental policy, was in violation of his training, and was murdered. And what adds to the malice of it is what you brought up at the end there. The language that he uses calling her A moments after he just ended her life forever. As a former police officer, somebody who served with distinction for 20 years in an inner city police department and came across this exact, exact scenario countless times. How many times did I fire my weapon? 0. 0 times. That's what makes me so angry. And then to, to add insult to injury, the difference between this moment and, you know, at least what we experienced with George Floyd, accountability. Derek Chauvin went to prison. This guy is being lauded as a hero. This administration has declared that Renee Good, because she doesn't fit their normal narrative of a person of color, person with an accent or someone that's an immigrant to this country. She's now a domestic terrorist. She's a mother who is in her own fucking neighborhood looking out for her fellow residents. Yeah, it's disgusting and it should scare the living shit out of every single American in this country. It now defeats the, it lends credence to the narrative. First they came for the immigrants, now they're coming for you.

[Lev Parnas]

100%.

[Joy Reid]

Amen. Amen. Kristi Noem had some thoughts, Paul Butler, that I want to share with you. Because in addition to what Michael Fanon has brilliantly laid out for us, Christy Noem seems to forget a very relatively recent codicil to this. Right. There was another example of police who were facing actual literal deadly force. Michael knows it very well. In which officers killed, shot, and did not shoot at anyone except one person who was jumping through a glass door. On the other side of which were members of Congress and their 20 something year old staff. That is the one person who deployed their firearm on January 6, 2021. And he was cleared because that was a clear case of using force. Donald Trump has said that. Ashley Babbitt, you know, she's already gotten a $5 million settlement. Nothing was done wrong. Let me let you listen, Paul Butler, to Kristi Noem attempting to explain the difference between these two things.

I want to ask a question about the rules of how law enforcement is allowed to engage when feeling threatened, per your assertions. Because I want to show some video to you right now and ask what is the appropriate response for the police officers in this situation? Those are law enforcement officers being physically attacked by this standard. Would any of those officers be justified in shooting and killing the people causing them physical harm?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Every single situation is going to rely on the situation those officers are on. But they know that when people are putting hands on them, when they are using weapons against them, when they are physically harming them, that they have the authority to arrest those individuals.

[Joy Reid]

The president pardoned every single one of.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Those people and make sure that they're getting justice for their actions going forward.

[Joy Reid]

President Trump pardoned every single one of those people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And every single one of these investigations comes in the full context of the situation on the ground. And that's one thing that President Trump has been so focused on, is making sure that when we're out there, we don't pick and choose which situations are in which laws are enforced and which ones aren't. Every single one of them is being enforced under the Trump administration, and the clarity of the law stands. And if people don't like it, these members of Congress and elected officials should go change the law and make sure they have that debate and policy.

[Joy Reid]

I just showed you video of people attacking law enforcement officers. Undisputed proof, undisputed evidence. And I just said President Trump pardoned all of them. And you said that President Trump is enforcing all the laws equally. It's just not true. There's a different standard for law enforcement officials being attacked if they're being attacked by Trump supporters.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We just saw them, this individual, in these instances and these investigations all have to be taken and done and done correctly in context of every single situation that is happening on the ground. So what we are doing today, as the Department of Homeland Security is out there with our law enforcement officers, making sure that we are targeting the worst of the worst and that we are talking factually about each situation and making sure that we are bringing those perpetuators of violence back to justice, bringing them to justice and making sure they face consequences for their crimes. We would love to have the partnership of Mayor Fry. We would love to have the partnership of the Chief of Police and of Governor Walls every day when we're out there to make sure they tone down the rhetoric and they do the right thing for the people of Minnesota.

[Joy Reid]

Paul Butler, can you decipher that word salad?

[Paul Butler]

No, I can't. I really can't. Because it doesn't make any sense. When she lauds the rioters and insurrectionists and violent criminals who assaulted police officers on January 6, she defends them. And in other interviews, she's called Ms. Good a domestic terrorist. I can't make that make sense. Joy, we know that what Officer Fanon and the other heroic police officers did on January 6, officers in the Capitol Police and in the Metropolitan Police Department in D.C. their actions preserved life. They took a lot of abuse, a lot of verbal abuse and a lot of physical abuse. Many of those officers still have not recovered from their physical wounds and their psychological wounds. And of course, the President of the United States pardons All of the people who committed those crimes, including officers, including people who assaulted police officers. And when you look at what happened with Ms. Good, the video is a textbook example of what police officers are trained not to do. Joy, we see the ICE agent position himself near the front of Ms. Good's car and then fire shots. ICE regulations say that officers should avoid deliberately placing themselves in positions where they are at risk and then using that as an excuse to shoot in self defense. So on January 6th, we saw police officers, professional officers trained to preserve life, engage in de escalation. Last week in Minneapolis, we saw an ICE agent escalate a situation that resulted in the death of someone who did not deserve or have to die.

[Joy Reid]

Paul Butler. Can he be prosecuted at the state level the way Derek Chauvin was?

[Paul Butler]

He could be, but the feds are making that extremely difficult by shutting out the local investigators from all of the evidence. So when this incident happened, immediately after it was announced that there was going to be a joint partnership between the U.S. attorney's office, the FBI and the Minnesota State Investigator. Now, mind you, this Minnesota State investigative agency has expertise, deep expertise. They're the people who help bring the four officers who were implicated in George Floyd's murder to justice. The day after it was announced that those that that state agency and those trained investigators couldn't touch this case. They can't have access to any of the evidence. They can't have access to the witness interviews. They can't have access to the car that Ms. Good was driving, which is vital evidence. So it's legally possible for the state to prosecute Agent Ross for murder or manslaughter or negligent homicide. But as a practical matter, since the state is being shut out of all of the evidence, that prosecution will be quite difficult.

[Joy Reid]

One more question to Michael Finone and then one more to Lev. Michael, what position does this put local law enforcement in? Because a lot of regular folks just see cops as cops. Right. They clearly cannot cooperate with ICE if ICE is behaving in this terroristic manner. Right. And do you have any response to this idea of non cooperation with the FBI?

[Michael Fanon]

Well, it's outrageous. I mean, that's standard practice in pretty much every jurisdiction when there's a use of force incident, a serious use use of force incident involving a federal agent is that, you know, state, local, municipal law enforcement agencies who typically have much more experience in investigating serious use of force incidents because there are a hell of a whole lot more police officers out there than there are federal agents. And they interact with the public on a daily basis, as opposed to federal agents, who typically now this, you know, CBP and ice, the way that they're being deployed by this administration is a complete anomaly or departure from, from those norms. But they would have more experience. And it also goes to letting the. The giving, you know, confidence to the public that there's going to be a fair investigation. I mean, typically in the past, we would want the feds to get involved because there was a lot of mistrust and distrust when it came to local and state law enforcement. Now we have a complete reversal of that.

[Joy Reid]

I.

[Michael Fanon]

I am growing very impatient with state, local and municipal law enforcement agencies, especially when. And district attorney's offices. I think the standard has been set by Philadelphia. If you watched over the weekend, you had the sheriff, she came out in coordination with the district attorney, and they announced that any ICE agents that break the law in their jurisdiction will be arrested and prosecuted. That should be the standard going across. You know, Speaking to what Mr. Butler said, I recognize the difficulties when you're shut out of an investigation. I still think that especially in the Renee Good case, there's ample evidence, there's witnesses to be interviewed, that that agent needs to be prosecuted. He needs to be held accountable for his actions. Because the public is growing impatient. You know, we saw no kings 1, no kings 2. If you speak to the individuals that are involved in those protests, they weren't just protesting the administration. They were specifically there because they were seeing the way that ICE and CBP were being deployed on American streets. That's where the anger and the outrage is. It's fine for these politicians like Minnesota Mayor to come out and say, or Minneapolis is mayor ice, get the fuck out. I appreciate the sentiment. Now I need to see actions. How are you going to deploy your law enforcement agencies to protect the American people? That's what needs to go. J.B. pritzker, I get it. You know, you're standing up against the administration. Now it's time to put your money where your mouth is and actually do something to protect your citizens, to protect the migrant communities from these clear abuses, not just of the Constitution, but of people's physical safety. People are dying. It's time to do something, not just.

[Joy Reid]

Say shit, yeah, Lev.

[Lev Parnas]

I mean, I couldn't say, Michael, I agree with you 100%. It's time for action. And, you know, that's the one thing that everybody needs to understand. We got, you know, Trump on the defense. Is Trump making mistakes. And We've seen that November 4th, when the people came out and when we when the blue tsunami, as they called it came out and you know, so we need to do the same thing. We need to. Michael said 100. There needs to be accountability, there needs to be action. Right now the COVID up is happening. What mega and what the Trump administration is great at is cover ups. They're not great at get fully covering it up, but they're great at trying to change the narrative. Just remember with the first perfect phone call with Vladimir Zielinski, we all saw the transcripts but you know, he got away. Then came Georgia. We heard the 11,000 votes. We heard it with our own ears, but still now we're watching with our own eyes. Just like you guys said, 100%. This was an execution. An execution that's being covered up. And to make matters worse, they have a gofundme for this guy that's set up and they're raising a ton of money for supposedly a defense fund. Think about this, Joy. A defense fund for a guy that supposedly has immunity from prosecution. So what's the defense for? It's all a grift, it's all a scam. And it's part right now they need to start doing certain investigation, arrest them, hold it, put their feet to the fire, let them come and let them try. The more they do it. But don't just sit back and say we can't do nothing.

[Joy Reid]

Before, before I let Paul go, I just have three more quick things to play. Let me play very quickly because Donald Trump, I do have to ask you one more question as my law or legal eagle here. Trump. Here's Trump. Donald Trump explaining why he thinks this happened to Renee Goode, the woman who's very violent.

She's a very radical person. Very sad what happened. Her friend was very radical. You know, go and drive absolute immunity.

How would you define that?

Well, I'm gonna let the people define it, but immunity, you know what immunity means as well as I do. Can't be treating law enforcement that way, whether it's ICE or border patrol or our police and men and women. You can't, you can't do that. We have to respect.

And then to the point that Michael Fanone made, let's, let's play the Philly police chief and what she said.

Good afternoon, I'm Rochelle Bilal, the sheriff for the city and county of Philadelphia. And I say her name. Renee Good. Renee Good. Renee Good. Renee Good. This should not have happened. But we're here today. Let know that law enforcement professionals, real ones, not the fake made up ice, probably Trump's new army to attack citizens of the United States. Did you hear what I said? No law enforcement professional wears a mask.

None.

None. Those that come into our communities wearing a mask to commit crime. I thank God for our District Attorney, Larry Krasner, who say he's going to lock them up. And I'm saying, now, we are not going to whisk you away for them to hide your identity, because when you do it there, you're getting arrested there.

Okay, let's no whisk away. And last but not least, I want to play this pastor who was confronted by ICE agents and had a pretty harrowing experience.

An ICE agent literally came over to me and said, what did you say? I said, I am not afraid. And they pointed a gun in my face. ICE put handcuffs on my hands and put me in a black suv. And then a few moments later, they came back and they said, are you afraid yet? And I said, no. And then they said it. Well, you're white. You wouldn't be fun anyway. It was then that I knew that this staging, that these ICE raids are really about fear and intimidation.

Paul Butler, I'm gonna give you the last word. It turns out on this question of whether or not what the state at this point is doing really does amount to domestic terrorism against these communities, as you heard this last pastor say, they made it racial. They want him to be afraid. And Donald Trump claims that immunity is going to be defined by the people, meaning his people. The police chief in Philadelphia begs to differ, but that is what the regime is saying.

[Paul Butler]

So the immunity is defined by the Constitution of the United States. Police officers do not have absolute immunity. Federal officers do not have absolute immunity from state prosecution if they are acting outside of their jobs. If what they're doing isn't necessary and proper is the legal phrase, then they can be prosecuted, and they should be prosecuted. What we heard from that sheriff in Philadelphia is effective policing. So she's not just concerned about unethical or immoral behavior by ICE agents. She's trying to create a sense where people in her community trust the police. They're confident in the police. They don't feel like the police are out to get them. And there was some progress on that issue after the murder of George Floyd. And a lot of people aren't going to make these distinctions between federal agents, the FBI, and local police departments. They'll go back to this concern that especially for people of color, for undocumented people, for immigrants, for transgender women of color, that all the police want to do is to lock us up. So again, it's not just immoral, it's ineffective law enforcement. It's bad policing that's being promoted by the Trump administration.

[Joy Reid]

Indeed. Michael Fanon, Paul Butler, Lev Parnas. Thank you, friends. We appreciate you guys so much. Thank you.

[Paul Butler]

Thank you.

[Lev Parnas]

Thank you. Joe.

[Paul Butler]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

Much appreciated. So there it is, everyone. Three professionals, three people who know what they're talking about. Actually talking about an issue that is really important because we're seeing this play out in the streets of the United States. What really does in my mind, amount to domestic terrorism. I wanna take a moment and pivot and let you guys know that the Joy Reid show tonight is brought to you by our friends at Helix. And by the way, who doesn't need a good night's sleep, especially in these wild times? So here's the thought. Why not stay comfy in your repose on a mattress by Helix, get a great night's sleep and avoid issues like night sweats because you know, I know about that, honey. Night sweats, back pain, arm numbness from sleeping on your side and all of the bad things because Helix will get you comfy and right so that you can wake up to a great day. So start by taking the Helix Sleep quiz, which matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and your sleep needs. It makes buying a mattress super easy. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. They're also offering free shipping right now and seamless delivery. Helix will deliver your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the U.S. plus, there's the Happy with Helix guarantee. Rest easy. With seamless returns and exchanges, the Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure that you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. And you can add in their 120 day, 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. So Helix will help you sleep better. A study by the Sleep Genome product found that 82% of people sleeping on a Helix involved increased, increased, increased sleep in their deep sleep cycle. So if you want to sleep better and get a brand new Mattress, go to helixsleep.com joy for 20% off site wide, that's Helix Sleep, helix sleep/helixsleep.com joy for 20 percent off site wide, make sure that you enter our show name after checkout so that they'll know that we sent you helix sleep.com joy all right, let's, let's get into this thing that I know a lot of people are in the Chat. Waiting on. You know, because it seems to me that our friend. Well, I don't know if I call him a friend. Stephen A. Smith, is talking shit again. I don't know if you would categorize.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This as a third rail or a.

[Joy Reid]

Pitfall, as you describe, but in your book, you talk about how when you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Were first starting with, quite frankly, you were concerned that the black community might see you as a sellout, as an Uncle Tom.

[Joy Reid]

And as you know, some of those.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Criticisms have come about lately.

[Joy Reid]

And I want to just play a.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Quick clip to get your reaction.

[Joy Reid]

Sure.

[Tiffany Cross]

To use your platform in order to not only come for me, but consistently kind of have a track record of coming for black women. I was just very disappointed in him.

[Joy Reid]

They're paying you not for your numbers, my friend. They're paying, paying you because you are willing to say the nasty things about black people that they want to say. Your reaction?

They should be ashamed of themselves. Where's your evidence?

Well, Crockett, you have apologized.

Well, let me tell you what I apologized for. Trump followed up what I said by calling her low IQ and stuff like that, which I found appalling. She's a highly educated woman. She's licensed to practice law in the state of Texas, Arkansas and federally. She's a United States representative. She's an influential, intelligent, decent, good black woman who cares a lot about black people in this country. So I apologize for assisting in any way this notion that it's okay to say that about. About her, because I didn't want any parts of that. But I did feel that the situation was overblown. I was simply saying, is cursing the president out and calling him a piece of on national television or in front of a national audience going to help your constituency? I wanted to know the answer to that question.

You know, it's not just Joy Reid.

And let me say something about Joy Reid. Let's get this out of the way. I don't know this woman. I've met her one time. I shook her hand once. I've never spoken to her in my life. And she's responding that way because when she got fired by msnbc, her show got canceled. I spoke on it, and what I said was, she is a talent, highly intelligent woman. I respect her. The issue, however, is that if Your numbers drop 47% and you are black in this culture that we're living in, did you really expect something else to happen? Of course they were going to do that to you. I'm looking at it, and I'm saying, okay, I get what you're saying, and you might be right, but the manner in which you're going about it, that ain't gonna serve you well long term.

But why is it that many black women have had this criticism on Steven Ace?

Who are the many? Because I think that a few.

Okay.

[Tiffany Cross]

Okay.

[Joy Reid]

That is the interview that Lindsay Davis on abc great journalist Lindsay Davis is doing with Stephen A. Smith. And I want you all to notice as you we just played that, that clip, their promo that he did not answer Lindsay Davis's question. He just did his usual, I have so much respect for these sisters stick before, you know, attacking Jasmine Crockett and me with his same old. Now, I will note that he seems to have changed his position on moi, however, saying that since the entirety of the Artist formerly known as MSNBC's ratings numbers went down after the election, and mine did, too, that I got fired because I'm black. Did you notice that we said that? Particularly since ratings were actually up on my show and across the network at the time that I got fired. So he's saying that with everyone's ratings went down and mine did, too. I should have known that they were going to fire me because I'm black. That's weird, Stephen, because I thought your whole shtick was to say you've got to prove that it's about race and it's not about race. But now you're saying it is about race. And since the ratings at Miz now they were down throughout the entire year in 2025 versus Fox, they were down. Fox's ratings were up, and the ratings at CNN and Miz now were down throughout 2025. And I hadn't worked there since February 25th. February 24th. So does this mean that people who are black who work at Ms. Now should expect to be fired per your formula? Because that's not the thing that you normally promote. Right. And to go ahead and answer Lindsey's question, since you didn't, Steven, here is a compilation of why so many black people and they're really not the few, think that you're a sellout.

Get real serious about Kamala Harris. I'm incredibly disappointed with what I've seen from the standpoint of her promoting this book. She came across as somewhat leaderless at that particular moment in time, which is something that Trump was pointing out. You come out with a book. Nobody wants to hear this now. This is, this is the problem. And this is why I believe her political career is over. I've. Serena Williams was wrong. Somebody has to say it. So I will. When Serena Williams brought the issue of gender and sexism into the argument, that's when she misses Michelle Obama. I would like to see you have some people on your podcast with dissenting opinions. Dare I say that would be nice. So they could have an opportunity to clap back if you say something. You said a vote for Trump was a vote against you and a vote against y' all as women. I want to stay for the record, I took major offense to that. Black men don't just love our black women. We revere y'.

[Tiffany Cross]

All.

[Joy Reid]

She is entitled to her opinion. She's earned it. I have never, nor would I ever disrespect Jamel Hill. But that doesn't mean that you get to create your own facts. You can call it bullshit all you want to. Respectfully, the one that's spewing bullshit is you. I'm really, really trying to be as respectful as I possibly can be towards LeBron James. I am pleading with LeBron James as a father. Stop this. Stop this. We all know that Bronnie James is in the NBA because of his dad. I don't know why the hell Nike made these damn uniforms that have hoods attached to it. By the way, you got a lot of those white folks in the audience that's gonna think this is Drayvon Martin being revisited. And I'm not joking about it. The bench is no place for somebody to be wearing hoodies. Colin Kaepernick wants the media. This Colin Kaepernick. Media can't find him. He ain't done no interviews. He talked to nobody. Media can't find him. But he wants to do any. He wants the media available now. He don't want to play. He wants to be a martyr. But guess what? It ain't working this time. You don't want to work. You just want to make noise and you want to control the narrative. It's over. Let me tell you what gets me annoyed, and I hope Jasmine Crockett is listening to this. By the way, she's welcome on the show. When you go on national television and you calling the president of the United States out of his name, and you're being all disrespectful as a representative in this country, do you believe the citizens of Texas sent you there to do that? They don't like them either. I'm talking about those who voted for her, in all likelihood. But because he is who he is and he is in that position, they expect you to go to Capitol Hill and figure out a way to maneuver yourself through that terrain to work in a fashion that's going to facilitate getting things done on behalf of your constituents. That's your job. That's your job. Excuse my language on SiriusXM, but it ain't your job to say he ain't, he ain't worth a damn. That's not your job. Anybody can do that. I've listened to Jasmine Crockett. Both AOC and Jasmine Crockett are welcomed on this show. I respect the hell out of both of them. I'm not here to disrespect anybody. I'm only talking about what strategy is going to work. What Bakari Sellers needs to recognize is why don't you tell what the truth is. Why don't you speak about the level of resentment that you really, really have that the American people are more willing to listen to somebody like me or the others that you mentioned rather than you who's been doing this for years out of South Carolina and then some. Nobody care what you have to say. I'm giving you pub right now by talking about you because this is the kind of individual he is. I could come at somebody like that who chooses to be disrespectful. You know my number. You could have reached me a long time ago. We could have had discussions a long time ago. Only time you ever reached out to anybody is when you wanted to sell your book. So it doesn't matter to me what you've accomplished. It doesn't matter to me how intelligent you are. It doesn't have matter to me how knowledgeable you are because nobody wants to listen to you.

[Tiffany Cross]

Because.

[Joy Reid]

Because your in your intent and your disposition and your default position is to attack personally people you don't even know. A charlatan. That implies I'm a fraud. How am I fraudulent? My work speaks for itself. I've been doing this for years.

And.

SiriusXM wanting to come to me. I got news for you. CNN will want me before they want you and you work there. Not to mention other networks don't hate on us because of what you ain't. Step up and be more than that by focusing on the issues. And if we don't know, teach us. So all you gotta do, teach us. If you're right, we'll listen to you. And instead of me calling you out on the airways, what I do instead is sit on the air and say, hey, this makes perfect sense, man. Bakari Sellers is right. Just like I said. Van Jones is right. Just like I've said, others are right on the left and the right, you bought and paid for on one side. Don't even want to hear what the other has to say. But you talking about me? Sit your ass down.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Huh?

[Joy Reid]

Huh?

Look like they would say he's Virgin Islander. So they would say in the Virgin island that he has no behavior. Right. You know, he's a Virgin Islander. But, bruh, just to be clear that you are not an equal opportunity offender, because that. That was a long cut of offensive shit. But just to show y' all that this brother not an equal opportunity offender, here is Stephen A. Smith when it comes to two white Americans whom he seems to particularly love.

BCU be very concerned about you making cuts in that regard.

[Paul Butler]

Not at all.

[Joy Reid]

And let me just tell you, I'm glad you brought it. Historically black colleges and universities. I saved them, Stephen. They were going out of business. They came to me, about 50 people that headed up, and they came to me the first year, and I took care of them. I took care of the black colleges and historically black hbcu. I took care of them. You know that better than anybody. Then they came to me the second year, and I said, wait, wait a minute. Why do you keep coming back? I saw you guys, and they were great guys. Some of them to this day are still really friendly. And by the way, they love Trump, every one of them. They came to me the second time. Well, you're giving them money.

[Unidentified Protester]

They came to me the second time.

[Joy Reid]

Get my damn teacup going.

[Tiffany Cross]

Oh, my God.

[Joy Reid]

Of any. At the time of this taping, 53 Trump nominees have been reported. One is black. That's it. A couple of things I wanted to bring up. I'm not surprised, not surprised at all. Trump proclaims to be cool with the brothers and fellas and what have you, and, you know. But when it's time, when it's time to appoint people to positions of power, folks are choosing folks they're accustomed to who look like them, share their cultural identity, things of that nature. You're expecting me to be overly critical of Trump about this? I'm not. The fact of the matter is, is that folks lost the right to complain. Folks lost the right to complain, even the black conservatives. He is a conservative talk show host. He's got a great, great podcast with millions upon millions of followers. He is an author extraordinaire. He's one of the brilliant minds in America, if not beyond. Even though we tend to disagree from time to time. I'm talking about the one and only himself, Mr. Ben Shapiro. Pleasure to see you again. Man, how you doing?

It's an honor for you to have me.

I really appreciate it. But I got to tell you something. As much as people may have been abhorred by Donald Trump's statement weeks ago, talking about how black folks. He's hearing that black folks find him relatable because what he's going through is similar. Similar to what black Americans have gone through. He wasn't lying. He was telling the truth.

[Unidentified Protester]

I use.

[Joy Reid]

I knew Trump before he ran for the presidency. I thoroughly enjoyed talking to him. I genuinely liked him. I didn't know who this guy was running for president. I think he's changed. But I will tell you this. I think when people call him racist and stuff like that, I've never thought of Trump that way. It's not, he not against black people. He's against all things not named Trump. There's a difference. And we gonna give lip service to the tragedy of the moment. And then within 24 hours, we move on with our lives like nothing happened. Something did happen. Don't care what his political beliefs were. I don't care what he felt. And then I'm going online and I'm seeing people celebrating it. Shame, shame on you. When I'm not suspect on, it's him getting them. Hell with that. That's the right thing to do. Because across party lines, everybody in our government said this man was a narco terrorist and we want to get him. What's the problem? You got him. Why are we complaining? People in Venezuela ain't complaining. Venezuelans throughout this nation ain't complaining. A lot of people in Latin America ain't complaining about the fact that you got him. You got people. I know somebody from Venezuela, and now they fantasizing about going back because he's finally been captured. And they want democratic leadership within their country because they went from being one of the most prosperous countries in the nation a few decades ago to people eating out of trash cans. And we complaining. Are we complaining because it's legit? Are we complaining because it was Trump and this is something that could be perceived as beneficial to him and the GOP for the midterm and ultimately, whoever's running in 2028 that wants to mirror the policies that he's implemented. Come on, now. We gotta be smarter than that, better than that.

Okay, Now, Steven, Steven, Steven. Not Viva Difference. You don't have the same smoke for the right that you do for anybody black. You got a lot of smoke for LeBron and Jamel Hill and Kerry Champion and Jasmine Crockett. You Got a lot of smoke for black folks. But when it comes to Charlie Kirk, who applauded the killing of Trayvon Martin and said we can handle some more gun murders if we can have more second Amendment Donald Trump, who is terrorizing black and brown communities, you have no smoke for them. If you've been criticizing the right the way you've been attacking people on the other side, I need to see those clips because when I tell you I've spent all day, Jason can tell you, just editing clips of you and Steven, I just didn't find the same smoke for the pro fascist side, the pro racist side, the anti diversity side, as I found attacks by you, Steven, against anybody black who has a prominent platform. And by the way, as to your attack on Bakari Sellers, Stephen, did you even know who his family is? Does your fam not learn about his history over there in the U.S. virgin Islands? Now, to be fair, American history isn't exactly taught thoroughly everywhere. So just to educate you for just a moment, since you had so much smoke for Bakari and since you like it when people bring you the facts, Bakari's father, Cleveland sellers of Denmark, South Carolina, became a civil rights activist at age 15. Then at Howard University, he became a SNCC organizer after meeting and befriending a Caribbean American activist named Stokely Carmichael. Now, in his life as an activist, Cleveland Sellers dealt directly with men like Bayard Rustin and Malcolm X. And SNCC sent Cleveland Sellers to do voter registration in Holly Springs, Mississippi, and to advocate for the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party. Now returning to South Carolina after leaving SNCC at 23 years old, he refused to be drafted into the Vietnam War, which many civil rights. Young civil rights activists suspected was a guise by the Johnson administration to pull them out of the streets, off the streets doing activism and send them overseas to risk their lives killing non white people. And instead, he poured himself into organizing in his native South Carolina. And two years before the 1970 Kent State massacre, Cleveland Sellers became the only person indicted and jailed following the Orangeburg Massacre, which took place on the campus of South Carolina State University on February 8, 1968, whereby state police shot 28 students, most of them in the back, killing three young men. We're going to put their Pictures up. It's B6. The three young men who were killed in the Orangeburg massacre were named Samuel Hammond, all star basketball player Delano Middleton and Henry Smith. Those Same officers wounded 27 other people, including Cleveland Sellers, who was shot in the left shoulder. The peaceful protest that police shot up was over the de facto segregation of a local bowling alley. Now, Cleveland Sellers, literally, while laying injured and in the hospital, was deemed by police to have been an outside agitator, despite not even being an organizer of that specific protest. Yet he was arrested, charged, and given a year of hard labor for supposedly inciting a riot when the violent rioters were, in fact, the police. He was targeted by police because he was friends with Stokely Carmichael and worked with him. And Stokely Carmichael had terrified white Americans with his calls for black power. And because Cleveland Sellers, unlike Charlie Kirk, whom you so admired, was organizing students on college campuses like South Carolina State towards social and civic consciousness not to believe that, you know, black men were inherently unqualified to be airline pilots. Bill Clinton, by the way, pardoned Cleveland sellers in 1993. And unlike Donald Trump, Stephen, who you also seem to deeply admire and who you said you like very much, Cleveland Sellers, like Jasmine Crockett and Jemele Hill and Kerry Champion and Michelle Obama and Kamala Harris and LeBron James and Bakari Sellers and all the other black men and women who you seem to so thoroughly and uniquely put down and criticize and attack, actually care about what happens to black people, because they know that what happens to black people in this country almost always eventually happens to. To everyone. The violence visited upon us is what you might call metastatic. It metastasizes eventually to every other community, as we've already seen happening to the OGs of getting massacred by colonizers, our indigenous brothers and sisters who are literally today being harassed by ice, ironically, in the country, stolen from them. And also Asian immigrants in Chinatown, Korean workers in Georgia, Latinos who are getting profiled all over this country at work, at Home Depot, ripped out of their homes, harassed, deported, tossed into concentration camps and private prisons at home and abroad. And now, as was always inevitable, white Americans, white women, who, just as in the civil rights era, face state violence and even death for being race traitors and empathizers, since the right has deemed empathy to be evil. See Goodman and Schwerner, who were treated almost as viciously as Cheney. Not quite, but almost as viciously as Cheney and killed along with him in that 1965 lynching in Mississippi. The people you constantly criticize, they see that and they know that, Steven. And we try to use our platforms to fight that hideous form of apartheid fascism. That's what we use our platforms for. That's why it is so problematic, Steven, when you use your platform to say.

Shit like this video on numerous occasions, and seeing what transpired From a lawful perspective as it pertains to a law enforcement official, don't expect him to be prosecuted. He was completely justified. From a humanitarian perspective, however, why did you have to do that? If you could move out the way, that means you could have shot the tires. That means you could have got her a few feet away after you shot the tires. And if you were unsuccessful in doing that, you could have got her down the road. You didn't have to do that. She wasn't driving down the road coming at you 90 miles an hour. She was parked in the middle of the street. And rather than get out the car, she wrongfully tried to drive off.

[Michael Fanon]

And.

[Joy Reid]

Wrongfully disregarded law enforcement official, which is exactly what ICE is, and as a result lost her life because of it.

Oh, Stephen. From a lawful perspective. From a lawful perspective. Stephen, Stephen, Stephen. Given that you're not a journalist anymore, I mean, you did write for your. Your school sports paper and you did come from the Philadelphia Inquirer, so you used to be a journalist. But if you were an actual journalist on your podcast, if you wanted to speak from a lawful perspective, you would do what I did on the show tonight. You would bring on people who can speak from a lawful perspective, meaning a lawyer like Paul Butler, who can speak from a legal perspective, or people like Michael Fanon, who's literally law enforcement and who can speak from a lawful perspective. You would bring on people who have actual journalism in play at this moment, like Lev Parnas, who can speak to what's actually happening rather than just running your freaking mouth with your opinion. From a lawful perspective, you could have shot out the tires.

[Unidentified Protester]

Really?

[Joy Reid]

Because I'm not sure that it will be a lawful perspective to shoot out her tires either. There is a fleeing felon rule. You can't do it. You just heard it. Well, you wouldn't have heard it tonight, but maybe someone will send you the clips so you can hear from a lawful perspective actually what the facts are in the state of Minnesota, rather than just running your mouth. From a lawful perspective, I think you might need to stick to sports because. See what I'm saying, Steven? What I'm saying personally is that you wouldn't even have an education if it weren't for men like Cleveland Sellers. Nor would you have the freedom to be loud and wrong while claiming Jasmine Crockett is loud and wrong when she's just crying out for justice while you were crying out for people to respect Donald Trump. You wouldn't even have that opportunity if not for people like Cleveland Sellers, whom You disrespect when you disrespect his son in that manner, and whose story you probably don't even know. Without the people who are willing to agitate, there would be no President Obama, no First Lady Michelle Obama for you to shit on, no me, no Don Lemon, no Linds Lindsay Davis for you to fail to answer her question. But most of us, including the many black men and women who you've disrespected over the years, we know that. It's just a pity that you have that big old platform, which I sure hope your loud dumb ass takes. Don't jeopardize for your day job, bruh, since I am today old. Just doing my research on you, since I don't watch your show and not previously realizing that your podcast is. Is not even connected to espn. So don't shit on your day, your main bag by saying dumb shit on your podcast. That's just my free advice to you because you either don't know shit or you just don't care. Instead, you use your platform to cozy up to the Bill O'Reilly's and the Chris Cuomo's of the world and the newsmaxes sucking up to them for favor from the regime while people who. You actually could have used your platform to stand up for people like the people Colin Kaepernick stood up for and threw away his literal career to stand up for while those people are destroyed. And I promise you, Stephen, I promise you, when the unspicy whites are done with you, and eventually they will be done with you, you may not have a home in black America to come home to. Look, I don't know you, Stephen. That is true, as you said, we only met that one time, ironically at the national association of Black Journalists Convention. But I disrespect you. I disrespect you, Stephen, if I'm being honest, because I suspect that had you not been a one year old in February 1968 and instead had been a sports broadcaster at the time, you probably would have attacked Delano Middleton for not sticking to sports. You probably would have attacked Cleveland Sellers for not respecting the South Carolina administration and figuring out how to work with them. Just my thoughts. So CBS is having a time. Jason, did you have any. Did you have any thoughts before we move on to cbs?

I think you said everything. I don't have anything to say. You cleared everything up very astutely. So I'm gonna let it slide. You took care of.

Use your platform for things that actually can help people that's all I'm saying.

Because I would have told him go, but I'm gonna let it low. Go f Anyway. Bye bye.

Bye bye. All right. Well, so CBS is having a rough time, y'. All. He's having a rough time. Their new anchor, Tony Ducopel, fresh from calling Ta Nehisi Coates a terrorist and being elevated to a greater position by Bari Weiss for his trouble. He fought with the Prompter on his debut night and then blamed the control room for it, which you never do. Not nice. He's generally a nice guy. Back when he used to work at Miz now the artist formerly known as msmec. He's a perfectly nice guy. Very nice guy. But, you know, you don't usually blame the pro. You don't blame the folks in the control room. But anyhoomst he then both sides. January 6th. The January 6th insurrection. On the five year anniversary. And whilst dispatched to Minnesota, he offered North Korea worthy praise of Kristi Noem and his fellow Miamian Marco Rubio.

[Unidentified Protester]

In America, the many lives and many jobs of Marco Rubio. The son of Cuban immigrants and a former Florida senator, He's now the face of US Foreign policy and President Trump's point man on Venezuela, all in addition to his roles as Secretary of State, interim national security adviser, and acting national archivist and USAID chief. Whatever you think of his politics, you got to admit, it's an impressive resume. And now a. AI Memes have added to that portfolio. Casting Secretary Rubio as the new governor of Minnesota, the new Shah of Iran, the Prime Minister of Greenland, the new manager of Manchester United, the head of Hilton hotels and highest of high honors of all, the new Michelin Man. Now, back in real life, of course, these memes may not add up to much, but for Rubio's hometown fans, which are many around here in Miami, it is a sign of how. How Florida, once an American punchline, has become a leader on the world stage. Marco Rubio, we salute you. You're the ultimate Florida man.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, we salute you, Dewey. Walter Cronkite is spinning in his grave. That is not the purpose of CBS Evening News. It just isn't, Tony. It isn't. I mean, why are you saluting him? I don't understand. I genuinely don't understand. Dan Rather is probably having dry heaves right now watching that. That was weird. I mean, I'm not. I'm just saying. I'm not sure that's what the press is supposed to do. Look, I. I will salute a politician that I support, but I'M an opinion journalist. I don't. I don't. I'm not the anger of NBC Nightly News. And even when I was at Miz, now the Artist Formerly Known as msnbc, I was an opinion journalist. I'm allowed to give my opinion. I can salute anybody I want. But you're like the freaking Walter Cronkite job. Like, you're not supposed to salute him or do like, funny memes about, look, he's now the Michelin Man. Did you all know that Marco Rubio's brother in law was a major drug dealer, big time cocaine trafficker. That he helped get a real estate license so that he could buy Marco Rubio's childhood home. You guys know that. See, that's the kind of thing CBS News should probably bring out, that it's kind of ironic that Marco Rubio is trying to take over Venezuela and be the Viceroy of Venezuela when his actual own brother in law is like a major, major drug dealer who went to prison for drug dealing. But I digress. What Decouple is really getting hammered for nowadays is this take that he had on the shooting death of Renee Goode and the community outrage that has followed it.

[Unidentified Protester]

So much to say about the last 24 hours. But sometimes what matters most is what is yet to be said at all and what we all still need to hear. By now we've all seen the videos. Renee Goode is alive in those videos, behind the wheel of her suv, her three children expecting mom home again soon. And we've seen the freeze frames, too. We've heard the political warfare, the clashing declarations about what happened. And unfortunately, we know the ending for Renee Goode. Nothing is going to change that yet. What we have not yet heard is one another. I spoke to people today who haven't slept since it happened, who want ice out now, who don't like masked men on their streets, don't want their neighbors arrested, don't want families ripped apart. I've heard too, not on the streets protesting, but in passionate notes in my inbox from people who want to see our immigration laws enforced legally and peacefully and with safety for all, including the officers, who in many cases are also parents themselves. These are both deeply American sentiments. But our job now is. Is maybe the most American thing of all. It's to find a way to live with people who are genuinely different from us, to try to be fair to them and in doing so, to make things better and keep things decent. Because in America, no one else is going to do it for us. It's not my job to tell you what to think about what happened here yesterday, but I can tell you we owe our children a nation that is better than the one we live in today. And I can say that because we all know it's true.

[Joy Reid]

I don't know where to go with this, about both sides ing. One side believes that ICE shouldn't shoot women in the face. The other side believes they should. I'm sorry, how are we gonna live together? We just need to come together and figure out how to get around the same dinner table with the people who believe that I should shoot people in the face. You know what? Maybe Bari Weiss should try for this guy for news anchor instead. Let's play him. This is name is Corbin Trent. I like him.

So what's funny to me is when.

[Unidentified Protester]

Is violence, when is protest, when is this all acceptable? But isn't that the same though? Where's the protest against the regime that's killing people in the street right now?

[Joy Reid]

And I mean, I don't see anybody at Columbia.

[Unidentified Protester]

Well, they're doing those today and it's called the ICE protests.

[Joy Reid]

Well, but they talk about Iran at the ICE protest.

[Unidentified Protester]

No, I think they're talking about the regime that's shooting people in the face. I mean, I think it's a very American idea to not want police forces to be able to shoot Americans indiscriminately.

[Joy Reid]

And the idea that J.D.

[Unidentified Protester]

Vance says is that they should have absolute immunity.

[Joy Reid]

You know, I thought this guy was a hillbilly.

[Unidentified Protester]

He had a book, hillbillyology. And I can tell you hillbilly values, at least from where I'm from in Appalachia, are that the government ought not be able to have absolute immunity when.

[Joy Reid]

They shoot you in the face.

[Unidentified Protester]

But maybe we came from a different Appalachia.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, Corbin.

Corbin Trent, I salute you. Our next guest is not just a media analyst, she's also a brilliant TV producer, anchor and media historian. She's my machete sister friend and my former colleague at the Artist formerly known as MSNBC. She's Ms. Now now, so we like to respect her new name. She's also a two time author whose new book, Love Me A Letter to Black Women in a Toxic Country. Career and relationship drops May 5, but you can pre order that book right now, including in the Joy Reid shop, Tiffany Cross. Yay.

[Tiffany Cross]

My Magetti sister. I'm so happy to be here. I, I. Listen, I just have to say before you even say anything, because I've been in the green room listening to you, we got to talk About Stephen, a girl, because, you know, you are my sister, I love you. I would not have had my show were it not for you. And so when someone talks about you, we have to treat it like, he did not insult Joy, he insulted us. That is how machetes move, but that is how black women have to move. We have to be so impenetrable that people know better before they come for you. So I don't want to give Stephen a too much time on this broadcast because you don't really entertain your lessers. I hope he's somewhere listening and learning, but not really. He's not on the. He doesn't have the reins to participate on this conversation. I'm not really mad at him, I'll tell you. I am mad at every single outlet that puts a microphone in front of his face and ask his simple ass an opinion on anything. Because he does not have the humility to say, you know, I actually have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, so I'm going to pass. And they only do that in the black community. They will elevate a useful fool every single time. But a real black man who actually has some intellect and knowledge, they will silence every single time they think appealing to the black community is going to the lowest common denominator. So by all means, let's ask the sports commentator what he would do if he were president. But I don't ever see them going to Joe Rogan saying, what are your thoughts on the Middle East, Joe? What would you do? They elevate the most ignorant among us. And I wish. I wish they would stop doing that. So you can't be mad when you give a clown a microphone, they gonna perform. But it is the outlets, and it's very intentional, Joy. And that's why your show, your platform is so incredibly important. And I love how people didn't miss a beat. They were just like, miss who? The artists probably don't miss who we rocking with. Joy. Because they know that black faces are not always black voices, and they know that we are not interchangeable. So I'm just thrilled. This is my debut on the Joy Reid show, and I'm just so thrilled to be here. But I just had to handle your lightweight for you because I just. I'm so tired of him taking up space. I'm tired every time I see his name in our group chat. I'm tired every time I see his simple face on television screens, because I know what they're doing every time I see him and people of his Ilk. I know exactly what they're doing. It's so transparent. And shame on white gatekeepers who platform that level of ignorance while silencing important voices like yours, like mine, and all of our machete sisters. Shout out to the machetes. So I'm just, you handled it with dignity in class. But I'm happy to get classless with this clown. Cause I just wish he would sit somewhere and shut the you know what? Up, please.

[Joy Reid]

I mean, I do too. But the reality is, and this is why your book is so important, because this is what happens in these space picture you or me. And I, I grew up a sports nut. I would never get a sports show. ESPN would not help me to be a dude. They wouldn't hire you to do it. But.

[Tiffany Cross]

Well, I can do it, Joy, because I'm a sports expert. But yes, I take your point.

[Joy Reid]

You are. But the reality is we would be laugh out of the table, out of the room if we went to ESPN to give us a sports show, me and Tiffany. But what happens with him is he turns around and goes to the podcast world and they say, yeah, let's let him speak on sports. I mean, his commentary about Minnesota from a lawful perspective, and then proceeded to spew a bunch of bullshit. He doesn't know anything about the law, nothing about policing. And to your point, he doesn't have the humility to say, okay, I have the platform. Let me invite on X experts who could actually educate me and my audience. He just gives his fucking opinion. Excuse my language. He just gives his opinion. But it's valuable to white conservatives. Their anti black, anti woman misogynistic bullshit come out of a black man's mouth. And that's why he's getting 200 million. What is he, like 100 million or $200 million?

[Tiffany Cross]

One or the other. He's a useful idiot to them. And how, like I would be embarrassed to be that if a bunch of MAGA people, no matter what I said, if a bunch of MAGA people started saying, you know what, that Tiffany Cross is on to something. I got to question my entire humanity. I got to question what I'm saying, what I'm doing. And so many people do this, and it's so clear, it's a grift. He's doing this in service to them. And you know, I go on every platform, I'm never filtering my words, hoping, oh, I hope I get a contract, or I better not say this, because the white gatekeepers over here might not hire me if I say I have Such respect for my community. My entire life, I wanted to live in service to the liberation of black folks. So every time I have a microphone, every time I have a platform, I will lay my body on the line in service to my community. I can't sacrifice that for the love of corporate overseers who have no intention in our liberation. And so what we know, Joy, is you could be the favorite on Monday and be gone by Friday. But what we know is we can always come, come home. And there's nothing. There is nothing the white man can dangle in front of my face that I would sacrifice this, the love I have from my community and from my people. So shame on Stephen A. And anybody else who gets in front of a microphone and starts spewing things that they have no idea what they're talking about. Just take a look around. You don't see them asking Amy Schumer questions about things. You don't see them asking Howard Stern's opinion on things. You don't see them asking Tom Brady, see his thoughts on where should the Ukrainian borders be defined? We should ask Stephen A. That where should the Ukrainian borders be drawn?

[Joy Reid]

Let him find Ukraine on the map to start with. That was the challenge.

[Tiffany Cross]

Right. How much should we be giving to NATO? Actually, what does NATO stand for? Stephen A. I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Like, read a book and shut the hell up. But for sure, please keep Joy's name out your mouth. And please keep Bakari's name. We rolled deep over here, Stephen A. I don't know what kind of black folks you roll with, but we roll deep. So just watch them out. Breath.

[Joy Reid]

Please leave all of our people alone. Yes. I want to ask you, I'm going to use your. Your brain as a media analyst first, because you've been in this business. You look 22, but you've been in the business.

[Tiffany Cross]

Well, I'm 25, so that's close. We in the ballpark.

[Joy Reid]

Your whole life, you've been in the media business. I have got to get your take on what's happened to cbs. Because it, you know, it was the network. We grew up. We were at Dan Rather house. I'm like the network we love to watch. It's shocking to me what's happened to it. What do you think of it?

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm so brokenhearted, Joy, because I began my career. I write about this a little bit, but I began my career when I was 15. And like you said, we grew up. 60 Minutes was the gold standard. CBS was the gold standard. But not only Was CBS the gold standard? Even their scripted programming, the news division, was so powerful, even their scripted programming has to reflect the news division. And as I've said many times, I grew up wanting to be the brown Murphy Brown. And I'm getting so old when I say that. Some people are like, huh, I don't get it. Who's Murphy Brown? So I'm so always happy to be in front of audiences who know what I mean. But, I mean, that is how I defined my career. I wanted to be. I mean, they were just the highest bar. And so I think it crystallizes what so many black women are going through in America, because Bari Weiss has never navigated a newsroom. She's never built a newsroom. I mean, let me ask Barry, what is a nut graph? Barry Wise, like, talk us through that. There are just basic things about journalism that she has no idea. And they have turned over the gold standard of journalism to this mediocre, below average ass white woman who is yet again another person capitulating to the Trump administration. Because as is the case in so many newsrooms, what is considered impartial, what is considered unbiased is rooted in what is white and male. And when you look across all news, not just cbs, but when you look across all news newsrooms, less than 6% are black staff. And it's probably lower than that now post the Trump administration. And when you disaggregate that number, that means even less black men, even less black women. And so we see where the axis comes swinging. Even more black staff has gone. And you don't have those people in a pipeline who could help promote you. If you didn't have your show, you wouldn't have been able to advocate for me to get my show. So we're seeing the devastation of a media landscape, not just in policy, but we're looking at post reconstruction, even in the media landscape, where black press has once again become so crucially important. I want to shout out our brother Michael Harriot with Contraband Camp. He is building the Black Atlantic over there. So if you don't subscribe there and shout out to everybody who's already a subscriber to the Joy Reed Show. But to see, first of all, Tony Dookie Pill, I want to talk about him because I think the fact that he, that they are blatantly doing this cheerleading squad shout routine for the Trump administration. This follows the path of every dictatorship we've seen and, I don't know, a country. Joy, you're a lot smarter than I am on These things. So correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know a post industrialized country that has come this far towards authoritarianism and turns back. And so all the signs are there and one of the ways they do that is to penetrate the media. If we don't like the media, then we'll just buy the media, we'll replace the media. And so to CCBS potentially where at this point they have become state run media almost. It's embarrassing. They've got great talent over there. I know Anderson Cooper has to be disgusted by this. Scott Pelley was one of the best. Ed Bradley, God rest his soul. I just can't imagine what they're going through over there. So it's really sad to see, but really shame on Barry Weiss, but shame on the people who empowered her because I don't know when people are going to learn. This MAGA machine cannibalizes. The second you do something that he doesn't like, the second you do something that doesn't praise your dear leader, he will snatch your license, he will threaten you. And so as we see, it's like a domino effect. We see one after one, all these media outlets fall and it's devastating to folks like us who've dedicated our lives to bearing witness and practicing true journalism. Even though we give our opinion, we practice true journalism and have come up through the ranks. For more than 25 years I've been in this business. So it's heartbreaking. I don't know how to navigate this society, this landscape professionally at this point is heartbreaking to witness personally and professionally.

[Joy Reid]

You know, and, and I think about, you know, as you said, we need the building blocks in order to get our stories told. Because you know, when you and I were growing up, you know, watching the news, it was just a lot of white men and Connie Young, right. We were like.

[Tiffany Cross]

And eventually Ann Curry and anchoring Gwen, Oprah and Oprah.

[Joy Reid]

Right, Those, those examples. Because it was the one sort of chance you get our stories told. It's interesting you mentioned Barry Weiss. You know, she's a gay woman and a mom. You would think that there'd be some empathy toward Renee Good, who is also a white woman and a mom. None. It's literally a both sides situation. But I want to talk to you about a story that this is one of the main reasons I miss your show so much. The cross connection on Ms. Now on the former artist on MSNBC. If you were still on this weekend, this video would have been played. This. This is C5 Porter.

[Unidentified Protester]

He did not deserve this. Keith Porter was a wonderful soul. His heart was big. He had a big heart. He loved so hard. He loved so deep. Anyone who came in contact with Keith loved him. He was a joy. He was a jokester. He was my baby. He was a father, a cousin, an uncle. And he always said, family over everything. It meant the most to him. My baby called me every morning to say, good morning, Mom, I love you. Every day before he went to work, just to say, mom, I love you. How was your day? He loved his daughter. He loved me so much. I miss my child. He does not deserve this. His Home Depot family. I'm so grateful to them. He loved unconditionally. He never argued. He wasn't a gossip. He was the one that brought people together with love and unity. He was the type of person that there was no anger. He always brought joy into the room. He commanded the room. And he made you feel special. Everybody had a name, and it was from love. Joy, let's leave it there.

[Joy Reid]

Keith Porter's death happened about a week before Renee Good was killed. It was a story that really, you know, my daughter told me about it the day that we were starting to put together the information for Renee Good, because it wasn't really on the news. It really wasn't covered the same way. Why do you think that is? The facts are very different. It was a off duty ICE agent. It was a very different situation. It wasn't a confrontation over immigration. But what do you think of the coverage of the story, first of all, beyond the local level? And what are the chances that stories like this will break through in this moment, in this environment?

[Tiffany Cross]

A few things. One, I think Keith Porter's story was actually even more devastating. The fact that the ICE officer was off duty. And as black people in this country, we know all too well that vigilante justice system where you deputize yourself, law enforcement or enforcers, overseers over our very body. So to even be approaching him when it wasn't necessary was completely out of pocket. And God, my thoughts to his mother. You know, I don't think they see our humanity. So it's hard for them to imagine that this woman is mourning the loss of a child. And of course, there is the racial component. Joy, you know, you mentioned that Barry Weiss is, you know, also a gay white woman with a daughter. And yet the country, America, is trained to respond to the trauma of white women and mourn the deaths of white women. And so I'm not surprised that Renee Good's story elevated to the Top. And again, there was video and you know, in news, if it bleeds, it looks, leads, unfortunately. And so there was the video there. However, the commonality, I think with Bari Weiss and Renee, even the intersectionality of marginalized groups when it comes to that, and particularly this administration, so often the marginalized group will choose race over whatever other thing. And so Bari Weiss, I would say, is a white woman before she is anything else. With the Keith of Plenty Twitter story, you know, I, I think again, this shows how the, the newsroom staff is so important because, you know, you and I were kind of different, Joy. Like, we did our own research, we wrote our scripts, we had amazing teams around us, but we were just those hands on people. But it takes producers to find stories like this, to sift through social media, to share responsibly, to vet information, to make sure things are accurate. And that's how it bubbles up to the top. And so when you and I had our platforms, we were able to elevate these stories, you know, faster than the rest of the rest of the legacy media world would. And I think we will. Unfortunately, with Keith Porter's story, I think we will continue to see these types of stories fade to darkness. I do want to take a moment and just let your viewers know. Since Donald Trump's administration, there have been 16 shooting incidents involving ice. Another 14 included ice discharging non lethal weapons like pepper spray and I think pepper balls is what you call them. Four deaths have happened, including Keith Porter and including Renee Good. So we are still in year one for a few more days. And I don't think it's hyperbolic for me to say we need to start taking this very seriously. I don't know if this generation is ready for what's happening right now. I don't know if it's ready to meet the moment. People are so busy consuming phone slop, texting, not paying attention, looking down at their phones, not paying attention, not connecting and listening to each other. But we live in a country right now that has normalized mass men disappearing people. We live in a country that has said, yes, ICE officers, I'm giving you permission to shoot with impunity. That's essentially what Donald Trump has said. We saw current Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth be asked this by Hawaii Senator Mazie Hirono during his confirmation hearing. She said, Listen. Then SecDef Mark Esper said, Donald Trump, why can't he ask Mark Esper, why can't we just shoot protesters in the leg? And she asked Hexseth Would you follow this unlawful order? And he suggested that he would. This is what we're dealing with, Joy. So this is. I'm terrified for what happens and I don't want to sound defeated, Joy, because so many people ask you, ask us all the time, time, well, what do we do? You know, how do we handle this? And my only response, I'm curious what you say to people when they ask you that, but what I say is build shelter. Because I don't know how to stop the storm, the onslaught that is coming at us. I don't know how to stop it all. There are people and pockets of people who can stop some things and maybe slow some things. But I think as black people, marginalized people, we have to build shelter, protect ourselves, protect our loved ones and whatever that means by any means necessary. Because if we are to die, then I would rather die fighting before I lay on my back for these shit kicking, hay kicking, cousin dating, banjo picking, half witted idiots who have elected this dunce to the highest office of the land and put our very lives at risk, put our babies at risk. So it's devastating. As a mother, Joy, I mean you have two black boys, you have a daughter. I can't imagine the stress that you go through and you're such a target for them. They have such a hard on for you. It's so weird. I mean it's like. J.D. vance, I wanted to say, like how many times do you, how many times you jerk the Joy Katie? Because you certainly, you can't stop thinking about her. Get a life.

[Joy Reid]

Odd. Like I'm like out of nowhere for no. Asked by no one, you know, so random. It's so random. Like, leave me alone. You were on my show back when I was on am, Joy, I let you on the show. What more do you want?

[Tiffany Cross]

I mean, they want your attention bad. Bad. They like we over here, Joy, and we, we don't spend our time like when we're together, we're never like, oh, I hate that J.D. vance. We're like, girl, you look so good. That haircut is you. That outfit is good. We are, we are Joyful. And I, they really, I think, truly hate that. I write about that too.

[Joy Reid]

I want to talk about this book. I want to talk about this book because, and I, you know, I equate them basically to the person that opened the door in sinners. They always, they just let the damn.

[Tiffany Cross]

Pick poor Robin Queen, all them voters.

[Joy Reid]

The MAGA voters, y' all are the people who open that door. Yes, the vampires in and so that's why we blame you for what is happening today. But I want to talk about this book because you, you know, you. This is your second book. Your first book really dove into media and the sort of the struggle of diverse people live in this media space. This book, first of all, promo up. The promo is bomb. I can't play the music because music. And then, you know, YouTube would be like, no, but it's a beautiful promo and it's showing so many images that are so meaningful. I love the flipping the bird.

[Tiffany Cross]

That's what it feels like.

[Joy Reid]

Yes. And of course, that image of black women sitting on. On the roof, sipping tea or sipping wine, watching the world burn. Why did you feel the need to write this book? What is love me? And is it love me or is it love me? You know what I'm saying? Like, yes, which one it is?

[Tiffany Cross]

So it is a letter to black women. Literally, the subtitle, A letter to black women and all that we're going through. And so it is not a request of black women to love me. I'm not asking for my sisters to do what comes natural to us. We love each other on site. The love is in our blood and bone. It's not even a request. We have to ask. With us, there's presumed safety. It is an offering to my sisters. A thank you to my sisters for loving me and loving you and holding us up. What? You know, the confluence of my life joy. I found myself stuck in quicksand, in the quicksand of my life. And it was devastating to me. My show was canceled, as you know. You so bravely gave me a wonderful sign off the day that it happened. And that devastated me. Me, you know, I just.

[Joy Reid]

By the way, I'm still mad about it, but go on.

[Tiffany Cross]

Yes. And I started dating someone right on cue. His picture was just on the show. I started dating someone and I thought, oh, you know, well, I'll, you know, I've lost my show. But, you know, maybe that had to happen so I would have time for. For love. And then that didn't work out. And then the world at that time, this confluence of things, they just punctuated the fact that black women are our enemy. And so at the confluence of a broken heart over a failed relationship, a broken heart over being fired essentially from my job, and the broken heart of America spitting and kicking us in the face, I was talking to our good friend Van Newkirk at the Atlantic, and I was just telling him everything I was going through. And he said, damn, you sound like Everybody, Black woman, I know right now you should write something. And so I sat down to write, and I have 5,000 words. So this is for women who struggle. You may not have been fired, but you struggle with work and what's happening and what we go through to participate in America's labor force and all the bullshit we have to face every damn day. We have to sheathe our faces in plastic mask and smile as a way of saying f you to people, to the women who are navigating love, whether you're married, single, dating. But the ways that we pour love into our men, and we don't always feel love back by our beloved black men, so we pour love into our career, we pour love into our men, and we pour love into a country. And it just feels unrequited. It feels like it's not being reciprocated right now. And so I just wanted to give us one. A mirror reflection to say, yes, sisters, I too. And I tell all my I'm so unfair, unfiltered joy. I disrobe before you all to say, I too, have gone through this. And it's not a bio, it's not my story, but it's here's what happened to me, and here is the wider scope of what's happening to us. And I'm so forthcoming because I don't think that you can ask women to believe in something without being so honest. You know, I'm not the hero in this story. There are definitely some embarrassing moments. There are some heartbreaking moments. There are people going to read things like, tiffany, act like that, or Tiffany, he said that she did that. But I just wanted to be really honest and give people permission that. You know, I write about hate texting and all the messed up things I said to the guy I was dating. I write about our sister circle and what it has meant to me. And when I found myself in that quicksand, how you all, like, had me by my wrist and would not let me sink, like, pulled me up. I was losing oxygen. It was like, no, we're going to breathe life back into you and what we do for each other. And how across the country, as America said, fu black women, how we needn't have a call. Like, even though Jotaka did win with black women, but we didn't have some big group call. What was understood need not have been said. We understood in the moment that we need a moment to collect ourselves. And I don't want people to think that that meant that we were sitting idly, we were Working and moving in silence, as many of us continue to do so. To the answer to all the questions of where are black women? Where were black women doing Black women at home? That's not really true. And so for the folks who wanted to know, I answered that question. This is who black women are, and this is what we've been doing. And it is a labor of love. I did. So. I have a 14 page bibliography. I did so much research, it took me three years to come together emotionally to write this book. And I just. I dug so deep. From a political standpoint, a personal standpoint, a mental standpoint, a spiritual standpoint. I talk about therapy. So really, everything that we're going through, oh, I do say in the book, because, you know, amongst us, we'll say, well, we all we got. And I make a point of saying, but we not all we got. Like, Joy, you have a wonderful family, a wonderful husband, like Sonny. You got a wonderful husband at home. You know, and we've talked about it, and it's like, yes, we have those things, but it's not like what we have among black women. And I so feel that I love black men. I don't want anybody to get me wrong. I love me a black man, man. I love all y' all black men. But there is nothing like the connection I have with black women who understand me, where I can be myself, where I can exhale, where I can be braless, so to speak, and just be in the company of my sisters. So I hope this book feels like a warm blanket around women. Even the COVID was intentional with all of those things. It's purple. Because if you combine the colors of the flag, red, white and blue, you'll get various shades of that purple. And so that's why I have the black woman on there. So I hope people buy the hard copy, buy the audiobooks and too, if you want, but the hard copy was meant to be decoration on your nightstand, on your bookshelf. But I want it to be something that people wanted to display in their homes.

[Joy Reid]

It's so beautiful. I cannot wait to get. I'm about. You know, I like to buy lots and lots of copies. Every time the machetes write a book, I got like 20 of them. So I give them away as gifts, like my own copy. And then all my family always want them and you have to sign them all. So just.

[Tiffany Cross]

I'm happy to. And can I say Joy, Shout out to my editor, Chrisean. Chrisean Trotman, who, you know, I had a black woman work on this book. And that was so important to me. I don't know if she gonna work with me again because I fought her at every turn because she was knee deep in that book, like moving sentences and. But she was so hands on and really pulled the best out of this. I mean, I would give her 100,000 words and she would give back to me 80,000, and I fought for those 20,000 and she would say no. So the entire team poured love into this book. Chrisean poured so much love in this book. So I just wanted to give her a shout out.

[Joy Reid]

Absolutely. Chrisean is amazing. And, you know, it's. It's great that she is in the publishing world because as we both know, the publishing world is very white male.

[Tiffany Cross]

Yes.

[Joy Reid]

There are not a lot of us there. And she is a rare gem that's in the. In the business. I have 50, 11 billion questions. This is a team now. Now for the chat that is loving you. There's so many hearts in the chat, it's not even funny. I am. I have a billion questions that I know everybody wants to know all about your breakup with the Artist formerly known as MSNBC. This book comes out May 5th, y'. All. And we are planning, because, you know, the basement, we like to do the little big tickets, the basement interviews, and we saved those for our very, very special people. And we are planning to bring Tiffany in. And that's when I'm gonna ask all the questions. If you guys have questions you want me to ask in that interview, you have until May, because we're gonna do the interview. Probably gonna record it in April so y' all have some time to think about what you want to know. One question I will throw in because I know people will get very angry at me if I don't ask, is when you left msnbc, did you feel what outside folks said, felt like the connection with Melissa Harris Perry, that this was systematic and that it was Melissa and then you, and then ultimately me as well. That this was not just personal to you, but that it was about us.

[Tiffany Cross]

Immediately I felt that my first thought was of the staff, you know, what was going to happen to my team. And then I immediately thought of the communities. Like, where else would you see indigenous stories, AAPI stories, Latino stories, and black stories like the ones you and I covered? And then the loud roar from everyone across America. People who I didn't even know knew me. I remember Viola Davis tweeted, we love you, Tiffany Cross. And I'm such a huge fan of hers. Tina Knowles posted about it. I I felt the love of community. So yes, it was definitely systemic. Like I said, the media likes to platform people who prioritize white comfort, which is why so many people are tuning out. I mean, increasingly. So more people are watching shows like yours. I mean, not a lot of people are watching cable news these days. And your ratings, despite what that Babelmouth Stephen A. Said, your ratings actually were consistently doing well, a lot better than his dumb ass ratings. So people showed up. So we knew it wasn't because we were not successful. It wasn't because we weren't bringing eyes. It was, I think, because we were bringing eyes. I was getting 4.64 million viewers a month, as per NBC's own research department. But I think smart black women with something to say who are fearless is always going to be a problem, even if they have to use another black woman to do their bidding to do the firing, which I also write about. Yeah, I tell it all. This is my first time telling the entire story. There will be no more questions after the book, which you can order now. It comes out May 5, but it's on pre sale now. But yeah, I think it made it easy, easier for them because they had a black woman shield to hide behind to do their bidding, unfortunately. And I don't know whatever happened to her. And I don't think a lot of other people know what happened to her because that's what happens when you move in their favor. So I just, honestly, I pictured you when I was writing this book, Joy, and there were times I really hadn't connected with my own emotions. And when I was writing about those days afterwards and writing about how you closed your show that day, like I teared up. This book was very much therapy for me. But I also zoom in out like it really isn't a bio. It's not all about my story. I tell all my business, but it really is. Here's what happened to me and here's what is happening to y'.

[Paul Butler]

All.

[Tiffany Cross]

So I just, I pray, Joy, my, my biggest accomplishment, if three people buy this book or 300,000 buy this book, I would love to make the New York Times bestseller list and all the, you know, accolades that go along with it. But if none of that happens, but black women read this and feel proud. If black women read this and feel seen and feel heard and can tap into a little extra self love and we can walk past the street at each other and say, yeah, I read love me and I connect with you on such a deeper level. I, I mean, I. That would Be the pinnacle of. Of my life because I. I laid myself bare and bled on the pages, all in service to black women. I can't stress that enough. It's all, you know, it's all I did from 7am to 7pm every day for the past three years. And native Land, of course, which I. I left Native Land, as you all know. But Joy is guest co hosting Native Land this week.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you for reminding me, because they would have gotten me. Yes, I will be guest hosting Native Land POD on Wednesday. Tiffany has stepped out of Native Lamp Pod. She is going into her space of solo success. Elevation.

I was about to say. Hold on. I was about to say, because there's a lady in here named Theresa Marlene. 43, 374. And she's here. Accent Tiff. When can we see you over here on YouTube with your own show?

This is the next question.

[Tiffany Cross]

I don't have a Jason in my life, so I'm trying to figure it out.

[Joy Reid]

I got you.

[Tiffany Cross]

I gotta come out there every day. I. I am trying to build that.

[Joy Reid]

We don't work.

[Tiffany Cross]

Okay. All right. I would like to. Then we. We should talk because that's what I would like to do. And I just go ahead, Nathan.

[Joy Reid]

No, I said, I got you. I got you.

We got you.

[Tiffany Cross]

Okay. I need it. And there are rumors going around about Native Land.

[Joy Reid]

I'm gonna just tell y'.

All.

[Tiffany Cross]

This is the problem with AI. So when I left the show and I signed, when I was signing on the show, my last show, and I was like, well, I'm leaving. Because when Bakari joined, he said in his contract he would not work with me. He said there could only be one Beyonce on this stage, and that was him. And so Bakari is. Is saying, like, I. I ain't saying I wouldn't work with you, but I said it was gonna be a fair. We know who the fair is of the group now. So we were laughing and joking. And when you put in Google and you say, why did Tiffany leave Native Land? The AI response says, because. Co host Bakari Sellers.

[Joy Reid]

Because people don't know how to take a joke. They don't. They want to play with our culture, but they don't understand it. AI is programmed by idiots.

[Tiffany Cross]

So be careful with that AI.

[Joy Reid]

It is not accurate on X Twitter, y' all be careful with that rock and all that stuff. Be careful before I let you go, because we are running out of time. But this is the part where I turn to the choir, and that is my friends on Substack. All Of y' all who are on YouTube. And I ask you. I don't ask y' all for much, but in this moment, I'm gonna ask each and every one of you, put your hand on your. Your computer screen. Put your hand on actually this, on your little mouse. I want you to go ahead and click or put it on the TV remote. And I want you all to pre order Love me. I want you to do that today, don't do it tomorrow. Don't do it in an hour. I want you to do it now. I want you to take a moment, even if you have to step away from watching the Joy Reid Show. I need you all to pre order this book right now, because it is not maybe going to. We hope it makes the New York Times. It will make the New York Times bestseller list, because we are going to make it happen. It is so important in this moment, when black women are under siege, are being driven out of the military, driven out of careers in government, federal careers. I have sources that have had been in the federal government for 20 years, raised their children on their not very big federal salaries, and are being driven out. In this moment, when we're being driven out of media, out of Hollywood, out of every space, we still have the power to hold on to each other. And if we don't use it, then we're at fault for letting our sisters fail and letting our sisters fall. And we are not going to do that. Y' all know how many times y' all have come in here and yelled at me in these. In the. In this chat about where's Tiffany Cross?

[Tiffany Cross]

Where's Tiffany Cross?

[Joy Reid]

Many times have y' all have berated Jason and me, and I've been letting her cook because she's doing her book. Now is the time when you can do something that is not just good for Tiffany, but is good for you, for your soul. Because we need the affirmation and the love, love that Tiffany is delivering to us in this book. This book is a gift to us, and we need to receive it in the spirit in which it was given. So I'm going to ask you. All right now, we have people in the chat already saying they're pre ordering. You can go right on the Joy Reid show store. And as a matter of fact, see Sean be getting mad at me because I do stuff. But we have to tell people, do it now. Maybe we'll do free shipping. Sean, can we just. We'll ship it to you for free if you guys go ahead. Remember, you're not going to get it right away.

Oh, my God.

You're going to get the book in May. And so you're pre ordering it now. Because what you're doing is you are sowing a seed into the success of this book and you're not waiting until it comes out and then you're rushing to go get it in the bookstore and it's already sold out. You're going to go ahead and order. Please, I'm asking you all now, this is a favor. I'm asking you to do it for me, please. And because of how much you love Tiffany, because this book is going to be a best seller, period, with a.

[Tiffany Cross]

T. Thank you so much.

[Joy Reid]

Joy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

This is.

[Tiffany Cross]

And people, when they read the book, they will see all the things that I write about you. They will see. This is why I say what I say about you. And this is why I literally my career took a sharp incline after Joy stepped in and was my advocate. And that is. I mean, I think this relationship crystallizes what black women are. Our entire circle. All we got to do is drop it. Y' all know how black women do it. We not unique. All we got to do is drop something in the group chat and we quickly turn into Olivia Pope. It's handled.

[Joy Reid]

Let me not because Tiffany loves to give me credit. The person who deserves credit is named Tracy Curry, the award winning, brilliant filmmaker who you all may not know used to be a producer on the Melissa Harris Perry show, Producer Oz. And now she is an Oscar nominated filmmaker. You should be following her career. She came up to me in my office and said, I have a friend named Tiffany Cross. You've got to give her an opportunity. Please book her. We booked this sister site unseen. And then y' all friend Jason Reed saw her the first time she was on the Sister. I hope she gonna be a regular. That was fire. He was. It was a family agreement. It was a family agreement. And then we had a food fight with the show that was on before ours, who then tried to book this sister away from being too. We went to war with the show that was on at 8am because they started trying to book and we were like, ah, ah, ah. Do not touch this. This is ours. We will fight over this. So what I'm telling you, Tracy Curry, big up to her. Attica is her. The film that was nominated for an Oscar. Her.

[Tiffany Cross]

The year in a slap. It happened the year in a slap. It was a category that happened when the slap happened.

[Joy Reid]

And it was her versus Amir Questlove Thompson. They were both nominated in the same Happy birthday, Amir.

[Tiffany Cross]

Amir's birthday is coming up.

[Joy Reid]

Birthday. Questlove.

[Tiffany Cross]

Yes, Questlove.

[Joy Reid]

Happy birthday, Thompson. So he. They were nominated against each other, y'. All. And that's when the slap happened. You can't make this. Tiffany Cross love you. Says there's nothing to do about it. Little sister, I cannot wait to come out here and do the full interview. And then we're gonna have questions. We love it.

[Tiffany Cross]

I can't wait. And I hope I see you. I'll text you to when I see you, but I hope I see you at Amira's birthday. I will see you there. Okay, good.

[Joy Reid]

We're gonna coordinate.

[Tiffany Cross]

Let's ride together. Okay, perfect. Bye, Jason. Love you guys. Bye, Whitney, if you're in the back. Bye, everybody. And my sweet baby Nala. I love you.

[Joy Reid]

This is not auntie. Our dog Nala. That's our auntie. She's only happy with Tiffany's over. She's like, I will note that when Tiffany comes to a party at our house and Nala is not allowed to be out, she lets her out.

[Tiffany Cross]

I don't like it. It's Nala's house. If you go to somebody's house and you don't like dogs, you cannot ask people to put up their dog. That's the dog's house. I don't ask you to put up your 2 year old. When I come to your house. I don't like it.

[Joy Reid]

Rest in your house at a party. The last thing you want is your dog.

Don't start this debate.

Don't start this debate with Tiffany.

[Tiffany Cross]

Jason, I'm mad at you because you're the one who put Nala up.

[Joy Reid]

Bye.

[Tiffany Cross]

It wasn't me.

[Joy Reid]

Bye, Tiffany.

[Tiffany Cross]

Bye, you guys. Love you.

[Joy Reid]

Love you back. No, I'm telling y', all, we had a whole thing at the New Year's party. Party. Tiff got him.

[Tiffany Cross]

Was like, where's Nala?

[Joy Reid]

Nala was locked up. I was like, I didn't do it. And you know what she did? She let her out.

Literally. I was like, where?

Why is here she. Thank you all for ordering the book. Thank you, everybody who ordered the book. We appreciate all of you guys. We absolutely, absolutely love y'. All. I know y' all are still not over losing Tiffany Cross on Miz. Now. We are now officially over time. Do we have time? I don't think you think we have time for a moment of joy. Do we have time for it? Jason? Let's play it real quick. Let's play the moment of joy.

If this is YouTube. If you want the time to play, you can play.

We'll give them a little more minute. Let's give them a couple minutes. Let's do the Golden Globes is our moment of joy. Lots of people won Golden Globes for last night and some stars, they rocked these pins. Let's show you the pins. D1. Let's start with D1. Show these little pins because people were out there wearing their be good, ice out pins. That's Ruffalo, Mark Ruffalo, and oh, my brain.

Wanda.

Wanda Sykes. The fabulous Wanda Sykes. The amazing Wanda Sykes. And they were two of the artists who wore these pins that said be good and ice out. So God bless them for doing that. But let's play some of the. Some of what. What was said. They wore those pins to stand in solidarity with the activists who are opposing the ice invasion of our cities. Now, some folks were annoyed that sinners lost out on best screenplay and best director and Ryan Coogler and did not get best director and Michael B. Jordan didn't get best actor. But the film did take home two awards for best original score as well as best cinematic and box office achievement. And Teyana Taylor took home the award for best supporting actress for her role in One battle After another, the film that's the favorite for the Oscar for best picture, which also won for best comedy. But you've also got to give kudos to the hostess, Nikki Glaser. She's a stand up comedian. Nikki Glaser, for setting the tone for the night and for some of the speeches. So here they are. Believe the amount of star power we have in this room tonight. It's insane. There's so many a listers. And by a listers, I do mean people who are on a list that has been heavily redacted.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But.

[Paul Butler]

Yes.

[Joy Reid]

And the Golden Globe for best editing goes to. The Justice Department. Department. Yes. Congratulations. And the award for most editing goes to. CBS News. Yes. CBS News, America's newest place to CBS News. Oh, is there more? No. There should be more.

No, I don't want CBS to block.

Oh, but keep playing.

[Unidentified Protester]

I just want to thank the audience for showing up.

[Joy Reid]

This, this movie, this movie was made by hundreds of people. We don't always be working the film business wear tuxedos and look glammed out.

[Unidentified Protester]

It's usually a grind, you know, I.

[Joy Reid]

Mean, we're wearing like performance fishing gear and we.

[Unidentified Protester]

Ain't we in the swamps and, and.

[Joy Reid]

And, and, and it, it was, it was an honor on this movie to know that it was getting a theatrical Release. We would remind people every day in the dog days, the summer in New Orleans, we would say, hey, big movie. People going to see this big theater. We didn't know that they would show up. So we just want to say thank.

You that they did. It meant the world to us.

[Tiffany Cross]

Ta Taylor.

[Unidentified Protester]

Oh, my God.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, my God.

[Unidentified Protester]

Way you see my party in the back.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, my God.

[Unidentified Protester]

I almost didn't even write a speech.

[Joy Reid]

Because I didn't think I would get.

Oh, my babies.

[Unidentified Protester]

My babies are upstairs watching. Y' all better be off them damn phones and watching me right now first. Father God, in the name of Jesus, I thank you and I praise you for every part of this faith walk, every lesson, every test and every blessing. Thank you to the Golden Globe voters for seeing me and reminding me that purpose always find this moment. To my mommy and my daddy, it's up for y' all anytime. I love y' all so much. Thank you for being here with me tonight. To my tribe. Oh, my God. My grounding force, my joy, my daily reminder that love is an action, not just the word. And everything I do is rooted in that truth. To Paul, Let him cook. Thomas Edison, thank you for your vision, your trust and your brilliance. My gratitude is endless. I love you. We love you. And thank you so much for holding space for me and our entire cast. Leo, Sean, Benicio, Chase, Regina, everybody, every the crew, every single person who has touched this project. None of this is taken lightly and none of this is taken for granted.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, my God.

[Unidentified Protester]

As but most importantly to my brown sisters and little brown girls watching tonight, our softness is not a liability. Our death is not. Death is not too much. Our light does not need permission to shine. We belong in every room we walk into. Our voices matter and our dreams deserve space. Thank you so much, everybody.

[Joy Reid]

Did we get the last page? Oh, no, we forgot the other part. Oh, man, I put the wrong one in. The part that I absolutely wanted to add that I did not get to was the part where Robert Dairo said f Trump.

[Tiffany Cross]

No, no, no.

[Joy Reid]

I think I missed it.

I'm going to say one thing.

[Unidentified Protester]

Trump.

[Joy Reid]

Yes. Robert de niro. Everybody roll.

It's no longer down with Trump.

[Unidentified Protester]

It's Trump.

[Joy Reid]

That is our moment of joy. Robert De Niro. We could not have gone through it without a moment of. Without our moment of joy. From our favorite, favorite, favorite, we love Robert De Niro. Before we go, I want to thank you to Angela Yee for having me on up with way up with Angela Yee today. Clips of the show are available on My social media and also on this show's social media also want to note that this show has been nominated for an NAACP Image Award, which is pretty exciting. We're going to put the link in the show description so that you can vote away. I want to congratulate all the nominees in our category of outstanding news and information podcast. That's our category, including our pal Don Lemon is nominated in that category. Our peeps at Nativeland Pod and Tiffany was still in Native Land pod, I believe, when it was nominated. So that original OG Nativeland pod is nominated. Audie Cornish of CNN and a show called Accidentally Informed. The telecast is in February. We're definitely gonna go. So you guys have plenty of time to vote. So please vote for us as well as like and subscribe so that we can, you know, have a shot. It'll be fun. I love the NAACP Image Awards. I actually won one just before my show on Emmys. See what's canceled. It's upstairs. So thank you all for for tuning in. Thank you all for all the love you gave to Tiffany Cross. I know she felt it. And also to Nala, too.

What I said the book is her book is sold out on our show.

Is the book already sold out? You guys are amazing. Y' all have already sold out the book.

You have to order more.

Good gracious. You guys have already sold out the book on. Okay, so we're going to try to make sure that we re supply because we have a certain allocation of presales. Remember, these are pre sales, so we got a certain allocation, but it appears we've already sold them out. So if you guys want to give us. We're going to see if we can get some more. Give us until the. Give us 24 hours. And we're going to try to restock. We have now reach out to the people during daytime and we will make sure we get more so you guys can sell out a second time. Make sure that we get this book to be a New York Times bestseller. Guys, we can do this. Let's do it. Books already sold out to get it.

Up sooner than 24 hours.

Okay, so we're going to get. Yeah, check again. Give us until like 10pm give us till 10pm and then log back into the Joy Reid show shop, which is shop.joann reid.com and go back and you can get the rest of. Y' all done bought all the books. Y' all got our whole allocation. We appreciate you guys. Thank you for tuning in and we will see you Wednesday. I want to note that Wednesday's show will feature Stacey Abrams. Stacey Abrams will be featured on Wednesday's show. It should be really, really interesting. We're also going to have Dr. Vin Gupta is going to return to talk about all of these changes to ACA and to your health care. Yes. And the members on and then on enter healthcare. So if you guys wanted to have questions, if you have any questions about the changes to aca, if you have Obamacare, if you need to buy health, if you're worried about how that's going to play out, you really need to tune in on Wednesday. That's going to be in the 7 o' clock hour. Leah Littman is going to be in our six o' clock hour. As we go through Stacey Abrams breakdown of the ten steps toward autocracy, we'll find out what stage we're at. And then on Friday, Friday 10 steps to autocracy. And then on Friday we do our members only Friends readers with benefits chat on Friday. So Stacy Abrams Wednesday with Leah Litman Dr. Vin Gupt also Wednesday. And on Friday members Only chat. If you are not yet a member, you still have until Friday to become a member. And that also includes the higher the upper tiered readers members on Substack. We're going to do a chat an hour just with you guys after next this Friday show. So this Friday at 8pm we're just going to chat with y'. All. All right. I think I've given all the housekeeping and that's it. Thank you for buying all of our our stock of Tiffany's pre order books and we'll see you guys on the next enjoy Read show. Good night. Love y'. All. Much love.

Getting back to the basics grassroot level. Let me dig a little deeper with the shovel Plenty can't tell the force from the trees that I'm hard to detect Like a black hole in a dark injustice anywhere it's a threat injustice everywhere Let me make this clear I got a bone to pick and I'll never fear the threat of poverty they don't want to talk about it they rap a party so I'm a real talk about it for show.