Quiet, Piggy! Let's talk about how much Trump hates women | The Joy Reid Show

Summary

The Joy Reid Show

Episode: "Quiet, Piggy! Let's talk about how much Trump hates women"

Host: Joy-Ann Reid
Guests: Rep. Adelita Grijalva, Jennifer Welch, Jolanda Jones, Michael Fanone, Terry Moran
Date: November 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Joy Reid Show delves into Donald Trump's longstanding misogyny, his administration's cruelty toward women and immigrants, and the MAGA movement's dynamics—especially the roles and public postures of women like Marjorie Taylor Greene. Joy and her guests analyze the controversy around the release of Epstein files, Republican in-fighting, the plight of immigrants under draconian policies, systemic attacks on civil rights, and the disintegration of empathy in American political culture. The episode features deep dives, pointed critiques, and darkly humorous observations, all delivered in the show's signature irreverent, truth-telling tone.

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Main Topics & Key Discussion Points

1. Epstein Files & Congressional Action

Timestamps: 00:45–17:36

• Background: Overwhelming bipartisan House vote to release the Epstein files, with only one Republican dissenting (Clay Higgins).
  • Quote, Joy Reid (05:07): "Only one Republican in the House voted to not release the files. Just one."
• Obstruction and Flip-Flopping: Speaker Mike Johnson's attempts to stall the vote and reversal under pressure from Trump.
  • Quote, Rep. Adelita Grijalva (09:41): "As soon as, you know, Trump gave permission to everyone to vote their conscience, then they did."
• Skepticism About Actual Release: Both Marjorie Taylor Greene and Grijalva voice doubts about whether the files will see daylight, criticizing performative transparency.
  • Quote, Marjorie Taylor Greene (11:00): “The only thing that will speak to the powerful, courageous women behind me is when action is actually taken to release these files and the American people won't tolerate any other bullshit.”
  • Quote, Grijalva (12:18): "If you abuse children and you raped women, then you deserve legal consequences. And all of these survivors need to be able to... see that justice happen."
• Survivor Advocacy: Highlighted as a shifting force, even within MAGA ranks.

2. MAGA Movement & Republican Women’s Power Struggles

Timestamps: 26:41–45:10

• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s "Rebrand": Positioning herself as an anti-Trump, female leadership contender within MAGA, challenging traditional misogyny in the movement.
  • Quote, MTG (27:35): "Let me tell you what a traitor is... A patriot is an American that serves the United States of America and Americans like the women standing behind me."
  • Quote, Jennifer Welch (29:42): "She is attacking Republicans from the gates... calling for a little more civility. And I think that's pretty savvy."
• Analysis of Republican Female Politicians: The unique hurdles and potential for right-wing women (MTG, Nikki Haley) to gain political power in a misogynist movement.
  • Quote, Welch (32:51): "One main focus of this regime has been the rise in misogyny... MAGA has a female problem—a massive, massive female problem."
• Trump’s Open Misogyny: Discussion of Trump’s documented history of demeaning women and the complicity of his base.
  • Montage at (38:32–41:47): Trump’s many sexist, belittling comments about female reporters, politicians, and public figures.
  • Quote, Joy Reid (41:46): "Trump keeps winning a majority of white women when that's who he is. Can you take us inside—why do you think that is?"
  • Quote, Jennifer Welch (44:18): "White evangelical Christian culture is inherently very patriarchal... there's a lot of internalized misogyny in white women."

3. Civil Rights, Immigration, & Government Cruelty

Timestamps: 17:36–26:41; 106:30–113:16

• Immigration System Breakdown: Rep. Grijalva highlights the climate of fear and family devastation among mixed-status families and the lack of Republican will to actually fix broken systems.
  • Quote, Grijalva (23:14): "They've lived here mostly their whole lives. And the threat of being deported is a very real one... our economy is tanking. So let's not pretend it was the immigrant community."
• ICE & Border Patrol Abuse: Michael Fanone, Joy, and Terry Moran discuss the normalization of paramilitary tactics and abuses, including ICE raids on churches and schools.
  • Quote, Fanone (84:39): "ICE and Customs and Border Patrol, the way they have gone about enforcing this administration's policies, defying the law, defying court orders... that has touched each and every American."
  • Quote, Moran (106:38): "I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And I couldn't believe... the whole country really, across the political spectrum, isn't defending the liberty that our forefathers and foremothers fought and died and struggled for."
  • Emotional moments (teachers, parents, and children in fear).

4. Attacks on Voting Rights & Section 2 of the VRA

Timestamps: 66:34–78:44

• Texas Redistricting Ruling: Temporary win for anti-gerrymandering advocates could be wiped out by a pending Supreme Court case (Kallas v. Louisiana), which may gut Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.
  • Quote, Rep. Jolanda Jones (68:15): "Yesterday's El Paso ruling blocking Texas's racist 2025 congressional map is a major victory, but it may be short lived... If the Supreme Court determines that it's unconstitutional, then... Republicans can just go crack and pack all of our districts."
  • Broader implications for Black and Latino representation.

5. Media, Truth, & The Power of Narrative

Timestamps: 90:36–121:40

• Trump’s Abuse of Journalists: Detailed montage and discussion of how he uses insults ("quiet, piggy!", "fake news") and gendered bullying to control the press.
  • Quote, Joy (92:02): "The rudeness. That was like three minutes of just pure disgust."
• Media Ecosystem & Independence: Conversation about bias in legacy media, the limitations of corporate news in this political crisis, and the importance of independent journalism.
  • Quote, Terry Moran (119:24): "I believe to do that today you do need to use the words that describe what we're seeing, what we're experiencing. You can't duck it."
• Attempts to Silence Dissent: The Trump White House's public declaration that ABC is "not news," and its open disdain for factual reporting.
  • Quote, Terry Moran (116:42): "They want a story told to the American people that first, divides us, second, makes us stupider, and third, makes us subservient and submissive to him and his government."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s Performative Shifts:
  Rep. Grijalva (09:41): "For four months, he thought the best thing for him was to keep the files secret. And somebody convinced him that the best thing for him was to release the files."

• On MAGA’s Misogyny:
  Jennifer Welch (32:51): "You don't have to look far to find how serious these misogynists are around the Trump administration... the regime has a massive female problem."

• On Red States & Party Abandonment:
  Welch (46:57): "The best thing that the Democrats could do right now... is talk specifically to Christian voters and say, what this man has done to your faith is absolutely horrific."

• On Internalized Misogyny:
  Jennifer Welch (44:18): "White women are raised in very misogynistic households where the mother is every bit as misogynistic as the father..."

• On Government Cruelty:
  Terry Moran (106:38): "I couldn't believe what I was seeing... all gooned up and it is probably the saddest thing for me in this last nine months that more Americans... aren't as shocked and outraged."

• On Media & Power:
  Joy Reid (95:12): "The question is insubordinate. Insubordinate to who? Saying that ABC should lose their license. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. The rudeness. The rudeness."

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Epstein Files Vote & Discussion: 00:45–17:36
  • Rep. Grijalva, reactions from Trump, Johnson, Massie, Greene.
• Marjorie Taylor Greene & Republican Women: 26:41–46:20
  • MTG’s “traitor” speech, Greene vs. Trump, Welch’s analysis.
• Montage: Trump’s Misogyny: 38:32–41:47
• Welch on White Evangelical Women’s Politics: 41:47–46:20
• SNAP/EBT/Congress Funding Issues (with Grijalva): 18:07–21:17
• Texas Redistricting, VRA in Danger (with Jolanda Jones): 66:34–78:44
• ICE Raids, Immigration Cruelty: 106:30–113:16
• Montage: Trump verbally abusing women journalists: 90:36–95:12
• Terry Moran Interview (press freedom, reality under Trump): 100:18–121:40

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Episode Tone & Style

• Direct, irreverent, and honest: Joy and guests avoid euphemism, tackle both policy consequences and the underlying societal sickness.
• Dark humor: Evident in segments on "Barbie doll MAGA women," Welch’s “favorite gay Republican scandal” bit, and Joy’s “heiferologist” moment of joy closure.
• Solidarity with survivors and marginalized groups: Centering the voices and experiences of women, immigrants, and minorities trapped in systems of cruelty.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Trump’s misogyny isn’t new—it’s foundational to his political and personal brand, and deeply entwined with MAGA’s culture.
• The fight within the GOP over the Epstein files revealed both performative politics and cracks in the MAGA coalition—especially as Republican women seize moments to challenge or re-align within the movement.
• Policy cruelty is not collateral damage—it’s the point, whether in immigration, reproductive rights, or voting rights.
• Media independence and confronting “bothsidesism” is more vital than ever, as the Trump movement seeks to suppress and delegitimize dissent and truthful reporting.
• The path forward requires resistance, storytelling, and, as Joy’s recurring guests emphasize, organizing at every level—including unlikely alliances and building empathy across divides.

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Moment of Joy

Despite the heavy subject matter, Joy ends with a laugh: a segment featuring Ms. Maddie J, a “heiferologist,” reminding listeners that humor and community can endure even amidst darkness.

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For Further Engagement

• Get involved: Visit removetheregime.com for protest info and upcoming events (86:45).
• Support independent journalism: Follow guests’ work on Substack, YouTube, and their respective channels.
• Merch & solidarity: Joy’s call to support, build community, and signal inclusion for every identity (“spicy white,” “proud Latino/a,” “blurred,” and more).
• Stay vigilant: Keep pressure on politicians to defend transparency, civil and voting rights, and resist normalization of cruelty.

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Stay tuned for the next episode and keep the discussion going—both on- and offline. This is independent, unfiltered analysis and truth-telling for the current moment.

Transcript

[Joy Reid]

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[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Okay.

[Joy Reid]

Music is like doubling up. Hello, everybody. Good evening and welcome to the Joy Reed Show. Big up to everybody that's sitting in the chat. Hello to everybody that's on Team tjrs. Hello. If you're also listening on Substack, watching, I should say, on Substack or listening wherever you get your podcast, wherever you are, however you're coming to us, we love you just the way you are. Don't go changing to try to please us because we absolutely love you just the way you are. Thank you for being here. Be sure to spread the word by hitting that share button. Also hit that like button because we want to make sure that we spread the love. We spread the word. We're trying to. We're trying to climb our way to that 500,000 subscribers by my birthday, which Jason and I figured out today will literally be the six month birthday of this show. Can you believe this show is only six months old on December 9th? So December 8th is basically not only my birthday, but it's this show's birthday. So we've engineered it that the birthdays kind of fall on the same day. So we want to try to hit 500,000 subscribers by that point. We're at 353,000 right now. So we are on the climb. But if you hit that like and share button, you could help us get there. Big ups to everybody who's already done that. Everybody's saying hello to the readers. All the readers gather. One of the things I love about the chat is that all y' all gather. It's like we're our own little club and you can gather here. We're like a little family. So hello to everybody. Hi, everybody that's saying hi to me. I got a hello, sorrow from Karen Stooks. Hello, soror. And if you're just in the D9 family or just in the happy family of TJRS people. We are our own. We are our own fraternity slash sorority, whatever, all of it. So we have a lot of good stuff to talk about tonight. It's going to be a very, very, very big show. We finally have a vote to. A vote in place to Release the Epstein files. That's a big win for the four Republicans and the Democrat Ro Khanna who pushed this to the end. The vote was overwhelming. You can see it on the screen. Only one Republican in the House voted to not release the files. Just one. Here's that final roll call. You can see it there. Only one no. All the rest were, yay. The rest. And just one no. And in case you're wondering who that one, that one no vote was, it was a former Louisiana cop named Clay Higgins. And here's how most people remember Clay Higgins. Most people don't really know him. He's not like a frontline member. But here's how most people remember him. You see that? Two years ago, Burdett's offense apparently on that day was questioning Republican Congressman Paul Gosar about his apparent ties to far right extremists. And also asking self declared Christian nationalist Lauren Boebert about her divorce. Boebert of course, being one of the four who joined this discharge petition. But back then, when she was questioned by this young man, Clay Higgins decided to shove him. He's also got some sketchy stuff in his past, including allegedly using unnecessary force against a black man, which caused him to resign from the police force. Surprise, surprise. Also wearing his uniform in online videos where he threatened to hurt supposed criminals. But he also, earlier this summer, I believe in June, did a hearing. During a hearing, said that he was going to reveal the alleged child sex and slavery conspiracy that was happening by some NGOs and nongovernmental organizations during the Biden administration, which he said involved 35,000 what he called tender age kids. However, no such report or prosecutions have been forthcoming. He just voted no on releasing the Epstein files. Here's how he explained that quote, as written. The bill, this bill reveals and injures thousands of innocent people, witnesses, people who provided alibis, family members, et cetera. That's what he wrote on X Twitter. If enacted in its current form, this type of broad reveal of criminal investigative files released to a rabid media will immediate, will absolutely result in innocent people being hurt. He also said that he would support the bill if it were to be amended by the Senate, which it was not. It passed, as is unanimously in the Senate. So I want you to now look at how Speaker Mike Johnson, who literally held the House hostage by not allowing them to come back to work and refused to swear in duly elected Arizona Representative Adelita Grijalva for two full months just to stop this discharge petition from passing, although he wound up voting for it. Here's how he responded to the overwhelming vote and the response by. And I'm going to also play for you the response by one of the four Republicans who helped Democrats force this discharge petition into place. And that would be Kentucky Representative Thomas Massie. So here's that sound. Any reaction to seeing the bill without adding amendments or changing it?

[Terry Moran]

I am.

[Joy Reid]

I'm deeply disappointed in this outcome. I think.

[Donald Trump]

I'm told.

[Joy Reid]

I've been at the state dinner. I don't know.

[Donald Trump]

I was just told that Chuck Schumer.

[Joy Reid]

Rushed into the floor and put it out there preemptively.

[Terry Moran]

It needed amendments.

[Joy Reid]

I just spoke to the president about that. We'll see what happens. So is he. Do you think he may veto it? You say you spoke to the president.

[Donald Trump]

I'm not saying that.

[Joy Reid]

I don't. Is he supportive of it in its current form? We. We both have concerns about it, so we'll see. I was standing there with. With the Crown Prince. We couldn't call. Are you frustrated in the majority leader? Are you upset with the majority leader.

[Terry Moran]

On this bill?

[Donald Trump]

He says that it was poorly drafted, does not protect the victims as well.

[Terry Moran]

What do you say to him?

[Donald Trump]

Well, he's trying to. He's trying to say that rich and powerful men who were on the plane.

[Terry Moran]

To Epstein island are now victims, that.

[Donald Trump]

They would be victims because their names would get disclosed. Like, look at his PowerPoint presentation today.

[Joy Reid]

He's.

[Terry Moran]

He's creating a new category of victims. So I think that's how a Christian man can stand up there and. And say a lie like that is.

[Donald Trump]

He's got something in the back of his head that makes it okay.

[Terry Moran]

But he.

[Donald Trump]

If he had real concerns, he could.

[Terry Moran]

Have introduced his own legislation.

[Joy Reid]

Look, I'll keep going. Oh, I think there's more. No, that's it. Oh, well, Thomas Massie responded to that, saying that. Actually, let me play a little bit more of Thomas Massey. I think we might have it. Do we have Thomas Massie? Second video Massey 2.

[Donald Trump]

Well, he got tired of me winning, so he joined our side. I have no animosity toward him. I regret that it got personal for some folks, but it never has for me. It's always been about the survivors.

[Michael Fanone]

What do you think is reversal?

[Donald Trump]

I mean, after months of fighting? Well, the speaker, the attorney general, the FBI director, the president and the vice.

[Terry Moran]

President could have saved us all this.

[Donald Trump]

Time and an embarrassment, frankly, for our own party if they'd just done the right thing four months ago.

[Joy Reid]

Do you believe him, Congressman? I mean, for weeks he's been pushing against this. Now he says he supports it.

[Jennifer Welch]

Do you buy it?

[Donald Trump]

He's only supporting it because president told.

[Terry Moran]

Him to support it.

[Donald Trump]

That's what Mike Johnson does.

[Jennifer Welch]

No, I'm talking about do you buy.

[Joy Reid]

President Trump saying that he wants the House to pass his resolution?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'm concerned that now he's opening a flurry of investigators, investigations, and I believe they may be trying to use those investigations as a predicate for not releasing the files.

[Joy Reid]

That's my concern.

[Terry Moran]

You think they'll try to block it?

[Donald Trump]

Well, they will, I'm afraid they're going to try to use a provision of the law that allows you not to release these materials if they're subject of an ongoing investigation and would harm in the release of which would harm the ongoing incident.

[Joy Reid]

So what do you think this is all about for President Trump? First, he was blocking this, pushing Republicans to block this for so long. Now he's reversing course and he has the power to release the pull files anyway.

[Donald Trump]

Well, it's pretty simple. For four months, he thought the best thing for him was to keep the files secret. And somebody convinced him that the best thing for him was to release the files. And if they're serious about it, they should release them right now.

[Joy Reid]

And joining me now is the 218th vote on the discharge petition. Arizona's duly sworn in. Representative Adelita Grijalva, friend of the show. Thank you so much. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure to see you.

[Joy Reid]

Were you surprised that your 200 your vote was needed, but not needed? I mean, this was overwhelming, only one vote. Clay Hagan's voting no. Are you surprised that the vote was so overwhelmingly in favor?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Well, as soon as, you know, Trump gave permission to everyone to vote their conscience, then they did. But otherwise, I don't think that, I think it was by design. I agree with Massey that, you know, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop because I think that there absolutely will be more to, you know, this obstruction he didn't avoid. He could have, he could have released the files anytime he wanted to. So they're just trying to come up with a way to make it appear as if, you know, they're open to it. But I think we all know the truth. I mean, we've been able to see it.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. And, you know, I'll probably, I'm going to say something now that I probably will never say again, or maybe I will. Who knows? Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to agree with you. Let me play. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Jason, this is a 6 on whether the Justice Department will now, per this new law, once Trump signs it, release the files. Green, you raised the question of whether or not the Justice Department will actually release these files.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Do you take the president at his.

[Jennifer Welch]

Word when he says he's going to sign this bill?

[Joy Reid]

And do you have confidence that these files will actually be released?

[Jennifer Welch]

I only take people's actions seriously. No longer words.

[Joy Reid]

And what do you think the President's act.

[Jennifer Welch]

And I'll, I'll tell you, because I'm, I wasn't a Johnny come lately to the MAGA train. I was day one, 2015. And there's a big difference in those Americans and those that decided to support President Trump later on. And I'll tell you right now, this has been one of the most destructive things to MAGA is watching the man that we supported early on three elections for people that stood hours, slept in their cars to go to rallies, have fought for truth and transparency and, and to hold what we consider a corrupt government accountable. Watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart. And the only thing that will speak to the powerful, courageous women behind me is when action is actually taken to release these files and the American people won't tolerate any other bullshit. That's where we are today.

[Joy Reid]

What do you make of her sort of shift in brand and the fact that she, she stuck with this discharge petition to the bitter end and is now even critical of Trump?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Well, I think that when you get to meet some of the survivors and talk to them and then if you have any history in your background that you know, you understand how difficult that is and how courageous it is to come out repeatedly talking about your story and have people as high up in office as the President of the United States call you a hoax and say that you're not credible. And, you know, that to me, maybe shifted and, you know, the fact that he was on this whole idea of transparency when he was running for office, and then once he got into office and I think got a really good look at what is in these files, then decided better, you know, maybe I don't want to do this. And the 23,000 pages that were released by the Oversight Committee, I mean, look at how many times Trump's name is mentioned. For me, people were like, well, Democrats could have done X, Y and Z. I'm like, I just got here. All I is, I don't care if you are a Democrat or a Republican or an. I don't care what your political party is if you abuse children and you raped women, then you deserve legal consequences. And all of these survivors need to be able to. Have to be able to see that justice happen.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. And I think the Occam's Razor explanation for why Merrick Garland didn't do anything about this at the time and is that he's Merrick Garland. His whole purpose in life appeared to be to make the Justice Department seem as apolitical as possible. And if Trump was in those files, that would have been a disincentive for him. Based on what our experience has been, he didn't even want to prosecute Trump for stealing classified documents and trying to overthrow the government. He certainly wasn't going to try to throw Donald Trump or any other powerful wealthy men under the table because he, he, Merrick Garland his way through those four years and did almost nothing on anything.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Well, and then look at the shift in our government now where you actually have government like the White House.govemail being partisan and like, you know, oh, the liberal Democrats. I'm like, I've never seen anything like it. You drive by buildings that have humongous, like, flags of Trump's face on our buildings. It just, I cannot. I mean, it is a. It's surreal to be here in D.C. and see how much it's changed and how much people should be really afraid of, you know, for our democracy.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, it looks like North Korea. One more piece of sound. This is the White House spokeswoman on whether the Justice Department, once this law is signed by Trump, we're assuming he's going to sign it with, weirdly enough, the same signature that looks exactly like the one on the Epstein birthday book when he puts his Epstein birthday book signature on this law. This is what, this is the question of whether the Justice Department will actually do its job. This is a seven.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Go ahead, release the full files on Epstein.

[Jennifer Welch]

Get this all over with.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

We have.

[Jennifer Welch]

This administration has done more with respect to transparency when it comes to Jeffrey.

[Joy Reid]

Epstein than any administration ever.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

In fact, this administration, the Department of Justice, has turned over tens of thousands of documents to the American people.

[Jennifer Welch]

We are cooperating and showing support.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, that doesn't seem true. What do you make of that? Do you believe her?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

No, I, I don't believe anything she says. For the most part. I try not to even listen to those briefings because it, it is parody. I mean, it really is. You know, most of the things that come out of her mouth have no connection to reality. And this is, this is more of that, you know, how is it that this administ, she can say, this administration has had been the most transparent about the Epstein files, but then Trump himself says that's just a hoax. Like, those two things do not jive at all. They don't. They don't. They're not attached to reality.

[Joy Reid]

Do you trust that if, in fact, this law is passed and something is released, we've seen reporting that the FBI is busy redacting Donald Trump's name out of the remaining files and, and attempting to highlight Democrats. Do you trust that whatever comes out, even though this law has, you know, been duly passed and will be signed, will be accurate and not doctored?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

You know, I, the only thing that I am encouraged by is that other people have seen these documents. Other people have. And so when we get half of the information, you know, it might motivate the estate to actually say, nope, this, this is all of it, because somebody else has copies. The doj, the FBI, they're not the only ones that have these documents. And even when you talk to the Oversight Committee, you know, Chair Garcia said for, for them to say that we have all of the information is just a blatant lie. What we've seen is just the tip of the iceberg. And it's, it's kind of overwhelming to think about how much information is out there.

[Joy Reid]

Have you talked to your colleagues, including on the other side of the aisle, about what kind of pressure was placed on them? People like Lauren Boebert? I don'. Know if you've had the time. You've just been there for a very short time to, to talk with any of them about the kind of pressure that Trump was putting on them. And what do you make of that?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Well, no, I have not spoken to her directly or Marjorie Taylor Greene. I can only imagine the amount of pressure and especially, like, the. Look at the social pressure. Yeah, he's such a misogynist. Right. So right away he has to go after the women. But to bring somebody into a situation room to have people, like, talk at you, that's a lot of pressure. And I know that he publicly says things that threaten people's reelections and that kind of stuff. So I can only imagine what was said in private.

[Joy Reid]

Let's move on to another topic that's more relevant than germane to your particular district, and that is snap. We have now seen what is supposed to be the end of the government shutdown. But have those funds and those EBT funds, have they begun moving in your district?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

No, and I'm very well. They have started because of our governor. But what I'm worried about is this idea that people are going to have to reapply for snap. And I mean, it's a pretty complicated process for a lot of people. And so I anticipate that if they follow through with that threat that our offices are going to be very busy and trying to provide resource fairs and help people get re registered for those much needed benefits.

[Joy Reid]

And I mean, is there been an explanation from the administration to Congress? I mean, Congress is supposed to be the one that writes the checks and owns the checkbook, and those funds are supposed to be per court orders. They said it was because of the shutdown, which it technically wasn't, but they claimed the shutdown was the holdup. Has there been any explanation?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

I, you know, I really don't understand how this administration has been able to sidestep every legal precedent, the law, the Constitution, anything we say. I, you know, there has been absolutely no explanation to Congress that I know of in this Congress, but definitely not since I've been here. I mean, we've been here less than a week and there's absolutely been no explanation.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. What do you make of Mike Johnson's leadership so far?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

I'm, I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of his leadership. I think that, you know, it's a lot of manipulation. There really is no direction. One of the things that I mentioned to him when we had the opportunity to go in the back before we came out for like the official, you know, swearing in pictures is is there a possibility of us actually having a budget that runs through an entire year like most successful and functioning organizations? Because this piecemeal CRS that are just bridging, you know, two months doesn't make sense. It's not sustainable. We can't plan out like our budget is a value statement. Why don't we say what our values are and just put them all out there? And he said, I would love to do that. I said, but isn't that your job? So that's where we left that conference.

[Joy Reid]

The job is to be obedient to Donald Trump. Apparently. Unfortunate. It really is. Let me ask you two other issues. One, the Affordable Care Act. Part of the deal that Democrats on the Senate side cut, to the dismay of many, many people, is that they gave in on the shutdown in exchange for a vote on the ACA subsidies sometime in December. December. Republicans have been claiming that they have a plan that's superior to Obamacare. I realize those shenanigans happened in the Senate. But on the House side, have you ever heard of a plan that Republicans, your colleagues have that they think is better than Obamacare? No.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

They have concepts of a plan. They don't have a plan. And you know, the frustration for me is like, you can pick apart aca. You have to understand that that was a compromise.

[Terry Moran]

Right?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

It wasn't something that if Obama had everything he wanted, I know people wanted single payer. I know people wanted, you know, the public option. I mean, that made the most sense. But that was a compromise in order to be able to get more people supportive of it. And it barely passed. So when you look at where we are now as a Nation, and ACA has been around for 15 years, all we hear from Republicans is how much it's wrought with problems and corruption and whatever. But you've had 15 years to come up with a better option and you have it. So let's work to improve the process that we have, build upon it or give us something else to work on. But let's stop talking about, you know, the fact if they actually had a plan, nobody's seen it.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, no one has seen it. You're right. This concept of a plan. And lastly, let's talk about immigration. Last time we were on, last time that you were on, we talked about what sure does look like an attempt at ethnic cleansing in the United States and really hyper targeting brown people, but also targeting Asian Americans, targeting black Americans, really anybody but white immigrants, basically. We now have seen a couple of stories come out. One, the invasion of preschools and an Associated Press story saying that immigration courts are essentially cycling people through, really without a true hearing, just becoming a way station to get people thrown out of the country. Essentially, that system has been discarded. There is no asylum anymore. There's really no process. What are people to do? I'm sure you have constituents that are asking themselves and maybe asking your office, should I even go to my immigration hearing? Isn't that just a ruse to get me to walk in so that they can deport?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

You know, I talked to a Marine yesterday and he said that he is still, you know, active duty and his wife is going, they were married, going through a process and she's afraid to leave her house. She's afraid to answer the door. And I can't tell you how many thousands of people are in that same position. They have families, they're invested here. They've lived here mostly their whole lives. And the threat of being deported is a very real one. And, and I am very worried, honestly, about what it's going to look like next year when this administration and ICE has 20 times the budget they have now. You know, we can't afford health care for the American people. We can't afford to make sure that people living in poverty have food on the table. But we sure can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a completely useless wall, a ballroom, and bailing out Argentina. We can throw billions at all of these things, but not to really support any programs that are actually going to help us that live here. And immigration is broken and we have to rebuild it. But I don't see the majority, not the Republicans, willing to actually come up with something that's going to work until their billionaire buddies tell them that their businesses are, are failing because of their lack of action. Then maybe all of a sudden there will be miraculously some system. But, you know, my tata was a bracero. He came over here because the US Needed labor and help. That is a reality. That is a reality. And you know, Operation Streamline, We've seen this in Tucson before. And that's more, what we're seeing is more of that people literally being pulled out of their cars by plainclothes people with masks. And it's undemocratic. It's un American, it's scary, it's scapegoating. And all I can do is be as vocal as I can about how horrible this is for everyone. Our economy is tanking. So let's not pretend that it was the immigrant community that was draining all of these resources from our economy. It's the fact that we've deported so many people, Mercy, mercilessly and, and now we're, we're, we're having to deal with the consequences of that. And unfortunately, many mixed status families are just, they're devastated and afraid. And I, I wish I knew what else to, you know, how to fix it. I wish I had like a magic wand it could fix it. But at this point, all we can do is try to bring light to the struggle that so many people are going through.

[Joy Reid]

Well, the magic wand would be a Democratic majority in the House of Representatives and in the United States Senate that was willing to actually take action on immigration reform. I will note that more than a million people have been laid off in the United States. So if the problem was immigrants, why are all these people getting laid off? The math ain't math. And I think your dad would be incredibly proud of you. Raul Grijava was one of the greats. I was blessed to be able to interview him when he was in your seat. Representative, I'm sure he was smiling down on you with great pride. Representative Adelita Grijava. People just call you Adelita. You're like a one name person like Cher, Sting, and Beyonce at this point.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Thank you so much. Or like Joy.

[Joy Reid]

Or like Joy. There you go. Look, we're a club, we're a team. Thank you so much, Representative. Appreciate you.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you very much. The chat is loving Adelita. She is one of our favorite, favorite new representatives in Congress and very effective. And I'm telling you, her dad was. He was a powerhouse. So she is doing him proud. All right, let's jump into this B block real quick. Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's having a moment. Trump has labeled her a traitor for joining three other Republicans, including, as we mentioned, Lauren Boebert, Thomas Massie, and Nancy Mace, who partnered with Democratic Representative Ro Khanna, who to push the discharge petition to release the Epstein files. And she started off very defensive of Trump, even releasing email, even though she was releasing email exchanges between herself and Trump and some of his staff. Well, now it appears the gloves are off. Take a listen to Marjorie Taylor Greene talking about who's a traitor, called a.

[Jennifer Welch]

Traitor by a man that I fought for five, no, actually six years for, and I gave him my loyalty for free. I won my first election without his endorsement, beating eight men in a primary. And I've never owed him anything, but I fought for him for the policies and for America first. And he called me a traitor for standing with these women and refusing to take my name off the discharge petition. Let me tell you what a traitor is. A traitor is a is an American that serves foreign countries and themselves. A patriot is an American that serves the United States of America and Americans like the women standing behind me.

[Joy Reid]

Welcome to maga. Game of Thrones, y'. All. Joining me now is One of my YouTube obsessions, Jennifer Welch, who's one half of the fabulous I've had it crew, the podcast phenomenon of the season. I was blessed to be on with her and pumps yesterday. They're so much fun, and they're so much fun in person, y'. All. We had the best custom time. Welch, welcome.

[Jennifer Welch]

Hi, Joy. I'm so happy to be with you so that your listeners know your episode will drop next Tuesday watching on iTube or YouTube or podcast. But it is so good. We were hollering, hollerin.

[Joy Reid]

We had the best time. All we needed was cocktails. Next time we do it, if we all have drinks in front of us. But it actually might be even More we might cuss even more. We dropped. I love it. Absolutely adore you. So I have to ask you this. We talked about a little bit on your podcast, but I want to bring that conversation here as well. It feels to me, and I think I said to you that it does feel like we're in a Game of Thrones moment where all of these people in the MAGA movement are running for the throne because they can see Trump is diminished. Obviously, he's got the cankles, he's got the issues. He doesn't seem to know where he is half the time. What do you make of my theory that Marjorie Taylor Greene is not running for Senate or governor? She thinks she can be the next MAGA president.

[Jennifer Welch]

I think you're 100 spot on. And let's look at her playbook. Joy. It reminds me very much of Donald Trump's in 2015 during the primary before he finally won the nomination in 2016. She is attacking Republicans right out of the gates. She's going after Republicans. She is attacking the status quo. It is an America first agenda. The only nuance here is she is calling for a little bit more civility. And I think that's pretty savvy because I think that a lot of these triple Trumpers are like, we didn't realize he was going to be this mean. I mean, mind you, they didn't sit, you know, that's a whole nother podcast for another day. But she hangs out a lot with a fellow named Steve Bannon who is an economic populist who also gave Trump all of this advice back in the day. And I think she is going for higher office. And I, this whole rebrand thing for me is, you know, some people are going to fall for it because they would much rather vote for her than they ever would a Democrat because the Republican propaganda against our party has been so effective. I mean, there are lots of Republicans that think that Joy and I are demons and they, they literally believe that. And, but she, for me, her cherry picking of, oh, I care about Palestinian children, but she doesn't care about the black and brown kids that ICE is taking right now. Then, then you know that this is insincere. You either care about kids and it doesn't matter where they live, where they're from, or you don't. And that's the thing about Republicans. They always cherry pick which human rights serve them for them to get elected. And that's it. It's, it's total bs.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. I mean, she's doing all the things Jason, put it up. It's me too. She's got a book coming out. She went on the View. Yeah, she went on cnn. All of a sudden she's showing up in spaces. There it is. She went on the View, which was a. People are like, what? Why is she going on the View? This is why she wants to sell a book, obviously. But also this pivot, as you're, as you're describing so brilliantly, is she's trying to make herself a kinder, gentler version of MAGA who could be appealing to those who care about things like sexual abuse, which we all do. Right. So that's something everyone can agree on. And as you said, the genocide, something MAGA base voters agree on. Even the far, far right. Nick Fuentes is against the genocide. So even the neo Nazi end of the party is all against it. They have different probably issues with the Jewish people. That might be. But I mean, she's lining herself up. But I have long, I've said since the Kamala Harris loss that it could be that the only kind of woman who could ever get elected in the United States is a right wing woman. And she checks all the boxes. She's deeply anti immigrant, she's vehemently anti Muslim, she's a Christian nationalist, proud of it. And she happens to be okay on some of these issues. And there you go. She builds herself up to be the only kind of woman who could get elected in America.

[Jennifer Welch]

I completely agree. I think she's going to have a lot more headwinds because she is a female in getting the MAGA base. Because one main focus of this regime has been the rise in misogyny. It is off the chart. Trump calling a female reporter piggy. You know, grab him by the pissy. This his list goes on and on. But you don't have to look very far to find how serious these misogynists are around the Trump administration. If you look to Secretary Pete Heg says Pastor, who was on 60 Minutes, who's personally very close with Pete Hegses, he called for getting rid of the 19th Amendment because MAGA has a female problem. A massive, massive female problem. I think she might go far. But I'll tell you who really scares me is Nikki Haley. She has been quiet, she's sitting back and there's going to be the hide and watch. There's going to be some prep Republicans have been hiding under a troll bridge somewhere and they are going to come out and say we need to turn the page and get back to the party of Ronald Reagan. And compassionate conservatism. It's coming.

[Joy Reid]

She.

[Jennifer Welch]

This is what she's attempting to do with her rebrand. But she's. I mean, there's so much crazy town video of her. Obviously, MAGA likes crazy people. They elected Trump. But, you know, this, this woman was a January 6th insurrectionist. I mean, she was colluding in the White House. How can we prevent Joe Biden from getting power? So I, I think that she's positioning herself. She's a lot smarter and savvier than I ever gave her credit for. But I also have a watch on Nikki Haley.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. And my, My only challenge with Nikki Haley, we didn't get a chance to tee this out yesterday, is she's still brown. Like, I feel like she, she ticks the boxes. And what could be interesting, let's say there was a primary between Nikki Haley and Marjorie Taylor Greene. If they were in the same primary, one of them is vehemently pro Israel and the other is vehemently anti Israel, that could be an interesting pivot because it feels like the base is going on the anti Israel side. So it's Haley, I agree with you, is a savvy player. She knows how to position herself. And I can see the people who want to seize back the traditional Republican Party being like Haley people. And the people who want to be hyper MAGA being Marjorie people.

[Jennifer Welch]

Totally. And this is, this is the problem that the Republican Party has done. They started capitulating to all of this racism. And imagine who the heir apparents are. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, even the Heritage Foundation. Joy has moved the goalposts. These people are so much worse than Donald Trump. And think about viewers, that I'm saying that it's like crack cocaine. It's like a methamphetamine. Their tolerance level gets to a point where they need more hits, more hits and more hits. And that's why Nick Fuentes is booming right now and the Heritage foundation is reaching out an arm. But here's the lesson in all of that, and this is what I, this is what I don't get. When you think about Scott Bessant, the gay man in the cabinet, when you think about Cash Patel, the brown man in the Cabinet, when you join a group of racists and you're a minority, at some point you're going to be a target. You're not the magic gay. So, Scott, I mean, nobody's going to do jazz hands and give you a pass on this. These Heritage Foundation Christian nationalists are dead serious about this. And Donald Trump is simply their Trojan horse.

[Joy Reid]

That's it. That's it. And they'll never accept, I don't think a woman either. Let me play a couple. Jason. I'm going to skip a little bit. Can we go to B5 just to play it? Because Jennifer mentioned it. Donald Trump calling a a reporter Piggy. First of all, MAGA supporters tried to say he was saying Peggy. He said piggy. That lady name wasn't even Peggy. What do you make of the fact that when that happens, the other people around the reporter who's getting, you know, barraged with misogyny don't say anything?

[Jennifer Welch]

I think it's just, it's the status quo of what happens when anybody's around this man. I mean, I wish that somebody would immediately speak back to him. This man needs to be publicly humiliated and publicly shamed from other reporters that are not defending and showing any loyalty to the members of their press corps, fellow humans, fellow women, to the industry titans who have benefited so much from the unregulated capitalism and, you know, being parasites off of working class Americans. And now they're coming. It's not the immigrants that are coming for all your jobs, maggot. It's these tech oligarchs with their AI jobs. That's what's going to wipe out the job market. But it's everyone that gets around this man. I don't know what it is, you know how like when you're in love and there's pheromones and that's kind of these stuff in the air with this guy, it's like, I mean, I'm going to turn into an asshole in the air because everybody in his orbit becomes a worse person. The more and more they're around them, the worse they get as human beings.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, let me, I'm going to play a little mashup because this is the other piece of it because Marjorie Taylor Greene has been out here saying she's shocked, shocked. I say that she's, you know, seeing all this misogyny and anti woman behavior and she can't believe that the MAGA men are so mean to her as a woman. Marjorie, do you have a TV or the Internet? Do you know anything about Donald Trump? Let's play. This is a little montage of Donald Trump.

[Terry Moran]

Okay, I sound too much like a.

[Donald Trump]

Chauvinist, but hey, when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything, whatever you want. Grab them by the, you know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them. I don't either way.

[Terry Moran]

I moved in her like a but.

[Donald Trump]

I couldn't get there.

[Terry Moran]

And she was married.

[Donald Trump]

You look ugly. You know, she gained a massive amount of weight. It was a real problem. Rosie o' Donnell's disgusting. I mean, both inside and out. She ate like a pig. And I'd look her right in that fat, ugly face of hers.

[Joy Reid]

You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals.

[Donald Trump]

You know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her wherever Cherry saw somewhat of a loser. She's lonely. She's unhappy.

[Terry Moran]

While at bet Midler is an extremely unattractive woman.

[Donald Trump]

A person who's flat chested is very hard to be a 10. You wouldn't have your job if you weren't beautiful. Donald Trump said the following about you.

[Joy Reid]

Quote, look at that face. Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that?

[Jennifer Welch]

The face of our next president.

[Donald Trump]

The boob job is terrible. You know, they look like two light bulbs coming out of a body.

[Terry Moran]

Arianna Huff is unattractive. Both inside.

[Donald Trump]

Now a pretty picture. You dropping.

[Joy Reid]

Dennis Trump uses an intern's back to sign a release form.

[Donald Trump]

I could do this all day long. When I come home and dinner's not ready, I go through. I've said that if Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her. Ms. Utah.

[Jennifer Welch]

When I said that I needed the break and it was for breast pumping purposes, he got up, his face got red, he shook his finger at me and he screamed, you're disgusting. You're disgusting. And he ran out of there.

[Joy Reid]

Every vagina is a landmine.

[Donald Trump]

Haven't we both said that in private?

[Joy Reid]

Potential.

[Donald Trump]

Never thought she was good looking.

[Joy Reid]

Do you treat women with respect?

[Donald Trump]

I can't say that either. So you have to tell Kamala Harris that you've had enough, that you just can't take it anymore. We can't stand you. You're a shit vice president. The worst. You're the worst vice president. Kamala, you're fired. Get the hell out of here. Fired. Get out of here. Get the hell out of here. Kamala. Back home to mommy. She goes back home to mommy. Was that you, darling? And then she gets the hell knocked out of her. Her mother's a big fan of ours. You know that, right? Her father, her mother.

[Joy Reid]

So that was long. And thank you for sitting through it. It's a lot, but I wanted to go all. I went all the way back to the 1980s. This is who he's always been and you will note that most of the victims in that there were a couple Latinas, but it's mostly white women. Take us inside. You grew up in a conservative town. You're from a conservative state. Why? Mainly there are black women and Latino women who also go for that, and they seem to be okay with it for whatever reason. But Trump keeps winning a majority of white women when that's who he is. Can you take us inside? Why do you think that is?

[Jennifer Welch]

I think that at least where I'm from in Oklahoma, it's a very white evangelical Christian culture, which is different from black evangelical Christian culture. And white evangelical Christian culture is inherently very patriarchal. I didn't grow up religious, had a very weird upbringing in the Bible, but I was raised by two atheists. But I noticed a lot of my peers and friends when we got married, there was always. And this is recent. Well, let me. I have to ask my husband if I can do that. Women would openly say, I have to submit to my husband. It is a very patriarchal culture, and there's a lot of internalized misogyny in white women. White women are raised in very misogynistic households where the mother is every bit as misogynistic as the father, and it is pervasive. And I think a lot of these women, there is a. This is what I think about Trump. I'm not a psychologist, but I think a lot of these really screwed up white, white people, they have dysfunctional families and they go to church and they try to pull it together. And then with him, it's like, oh, he can be rich, he can be a pea grabber, he can talk to women that way. And for the men, it makes them feel better. It makes them feel like less pieces of. And for the women, it also provides some sort of screwed up comfort that, oh, everybody's husband does this. It is just locker room talk. I'm not saying all white people, you guys, but I know the people that vote for him, the triple Trumpers. And there is a racist Christian nationalist anchor in all of that that's rooted in misogyny and bigotry. And those two driving forces are massive. And another driving force with people that are in my socioeconomic group, men have this kind of power over their wives, and women give up this much agency being raised in this very patriarchal system. A man can say, now, darling, when you go and vote today, if you want that new purse, you better make sure you vote Republican. And women will just do that. They will just do that. And it's it's really devastating. You know, you get into larger cities and you don't. You see women with a lot more agency and autonomy. But a lot of that 1960s, 70s kind of patriarchal stuff is still very prevalent in suburban America.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, I mean, I, I was texting with a friend of mine who's a black woman who's in this, in the media world, who was surprised that some of the Jeffrey Epstein victims said, I voted for you, Mr. President. And you think as somebody who's been a victim of sexual assault as a child that you would grow up and vote for Trump. And I said to her, yes, 6 in 10 white Americans are Republicans. They are as Republican as black people are Democrats. Not quite. You know, with, with, with Black folks, like 90% are Democrats. It's a, it's a culture to vote Republican. It doesn't matter. I mean, Nancy Mace is a pro Trump person. So. And I will never forget when I covered the, the Cleveland convention in 2016, white women and some of them older, like grandmas walking around in that T shirt that said Trump can grab my. And I'm like, Kenny, like body.

[Jennifer Welch]

It's this in the Republican Party has done such a good job with propaganda that with the assist from Fox News, it has been so effective in red states. Abandoning the first of all, the Democrats moved out. They no longer had a 50 state solution. The Democrats abandoned these states and when they did that, these Republicans moved in and they have moved in so hard, it's left this massive vacuum that they control. Joy, when I living in Oklahoma growing up, if it was George Bush running or somebody, their church is everywhere. The, the, the marquees at the churches would say vote Jesus wants you to vote for George W. Bush today. And it, they have done so. The Democrats have never responded to this. They pulled out of all of these states. And so this abandonment that these people feel has been filled up by these horrible actors. And you haven't had grassroots operations or any Democrats in these places. They have just jump shipped and focused on blue C and look at where we are now.

[Joy Reid]

Amen. And the thing is, they've done the same thing in the, in throughout the South. They just pulled up stakes and walked away from places like Louisiana, Mississippi, like you said, from Oklahoma to Texas, they're barely there. They have a small operation in Florida. They're barely there because they just say, oh well, I guess those people are Republicans. But it's like, wait a minute. Literally in 2014, Arkansas had statewide elected Democrats. Arkansas did. Bill Clinton came from Arkansas like y' all used to elect Democrats all the time. But you're right, the. The Democratic Party and also they won't talk to religious people. Even if you're not, even if you're secular, you still talk to people who are religious. Like, find some way to meet in the middle and talk to folks. But Democrats, just like, we're just gonna walk away.

[Jennifer Welch]

The best thing that the Democrats could do right now, Joy, is talk specifically to Christian voters and say, what this man has done to your faith is absolutely horrific. The way Moses, Mike Grinder Johnson waves this Bible and then defends pedophiles in the name of Jesus is disgusting. People have lied to you. They've used your faith against you. Republicans brought faith into the narrative and Democrats just ignore it. They don't respond it. They should take the Republican Christian hypocrisy and take it right to the mat. Because here's the thing about red state people, Joy. If you poll them individually, what do you think about gun control? They want it. What do you think about woman's right to choose? They want it. What do you think about health care? They want it. They want it. They want it. Will you vote for a Democrat? No. They're always going to vote Republican. In Oklahoma, they put the vote to legalize marijuana a few years ago. Everybody voted yes in Bible thumper, racist, redneck. Oklahoma people voted yes. But if Democrats would go and talk to these people and have a conversation with them, talk to them about what's happened to their faith, how the Republican party has weaponized it against them, that it has no business in politics. And if you're a politician talking about it, then they're probably using it for bad purposes. Purposes. But they just ignore it. And at some point the Democrats had a 50 state plan, and in I think it was 2011, we had a Democratic governor, two terms. Brad Henry in Oklahoma. Our education was ranked, I think 14th one term, 17th another term. Since then, it's been a Republican super majority the entire time. Joy, we're 50th in education. And what do the Democrats do with this? Do they ever say, look at what Republican super majorities do? They went from 14th in education to 50th. They never say it, they never use it. But guess what Republicans do? They browbeat blue cities, which are the economic hubs, because they know that multiculturalism is a problem for white supremacy.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. And they also have allowed Republicans to demonize non white immigrants to the point where it is the main thing that moves maga. They hate non white immigrants so much that they Actually enjoy these videos of, you know, some lady who sells AREPA on the side of the road getting thrown to the ground or them marching into preschools. There's a video of today of, Of ICE waiting outside a church in Chicago for people when they're finished pranks, they can scoop them up. Like, there's not even a sense of sanctity of a church at this point. And MAGA is motivated heavily by hating women, yes, but hating immigrants even more. And I don't know that the Democrats have done enough to push back on that either. And maybe if they could have as much passion for this as they do for apac, they think, shit.

[Jennifer Welch]

And, you know, the Democrats, there's such a. MAGA has gone too far with all of this. And I think even triple Trumpers that vote their pocketbook, this is an opportunity to say, look at the depravity and the cruelty that they're doing in the name of your faith. Look at this. And they should be in front of microphones all the time. Marjorie Taylor Greene is getting more time. And Mike, in front of the opposition party. Seriously, you know, like the opposition party. I had Cory Booker on the podcast, and he said, nobody really knows who Chuck Schumer is. And you know what, Joy? Everybody should know who the leader of the opposition is. Every American should know that person's name, because they should be screaming from the rooftop when they see this injustice and they see. See this targeted racism towards innocent laborers and people. And then the Supreme Court assists and says, yeah, we can racially profile people. And that's a whole thing, too, the Supreme Court, that we need to dive in another episode at some point. The way they are so drunk on their own power that they keep going along with this shadow docket to erode civil liberties. It's just terrifying.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, your Cory Booker interview was, Was wonderful and, and, and made me very sad. I mean, the, the fact that he couldn't answer that APEC question or the Israel question, it was, you know, if he wants to run for president, he's got to clean that up. I mean, what this sort of, this fealty to Bibi Netanyahu's Israel, I don't understand at all.

[Jennifer Welch]

I don't understand it at all.

[Joy Reid]

It's.

[Jennifer Welch]

It is utterly insane. And I'm just going to tell you, a lot of people in the parts of America that I used to live in, we're not too concerned with what's going on in foreign affairs because you're fighting local governments for a right to go to an obi gyn you're trying to keep the Ten Commandments out of the schools. You're fighting, you know, just basic for basic things in these red states. And so when we got beat our party twice by a total effing moron, especially this last time, you know, we ran a really qualified candidate and she got beat barely. And I really started looking into it and then I saw the opposition and how lackluster and milquetoast is they're voting for some of his nominees. And I was just like, what is going on? So I started really, really reading into ap and it is they control the opposition. When I found out that AIPAC gave as much money to Donald Trump as Elon Musk did, it made my jaw hit the floor. And then I thought, okay, wouldn't it be disqualifying for Cory Booker Chuckles or Hakeem Jeffrey if Elon Musk said, I'm going to give Cory Booker $5 million, Democrats would jump ship on him so fast and make their head spin. But with aipac, the majority of Americans don't know what that is. Yeah, but then you cannot run from these images of the genocide that is happening there. And then you find out that we fund it and we gave this guy a blank check. Then you hear people like Ro Khanna when he comes on my podcast. I love having somebody like Ro Khanna on who is not beholden to anybody. There's no, what are we going to talk about today, ladies? I need a list. None of it. He can just come and answer questions. And he not on our podcast, but on somebody else's platform. He said the Democratic Party needs to answer for the blank check that Biden gave Benjamin NETANYAHU. And he's 100% correct. We do need to answer for that. And I wasn't as privy to a lot of this a couple of years ago, but I'm laser focused on it now. And I see that aipac, they want the most morally bankrupt people to collude with so that they can enact their nefarious plans in Gaza. And then they want to control the opposition to make sure that they can maintain these free flowing checks coming in. And it's just devastating to find it out. And it's so sad that so many of our Democratic politicians have been in on this. But we're at a place right now that I just want a fighter. If Cory Booker, Hakeem or Chuckle said no more apac, I'm done, I'm fighting, I'm going to be right behind them.

[Joy Reid]

Amen. Amen all right, let's have some fun. Before I let you go, before we hit the top of the hour, I think both of our. I'm going to go ahead and say that I think this is our favorite email of all time. This is B3. This is the email where Mark Epstein emails his brother Jeffrey about Donald Trump and someone by the name of Bubba. We don't know who Bubba is. Mark Epstein has done interviews where he said it's not Bill Clinton, which would have been the obvious guess. But then he also went on the show with our friend, what's his name? What's his name's brother Jason. Jason, help me out. The guy who's got guy who's governor of things, brother Chris Cuomo. Sorry, menopause Chris Cuomo. And he said, well, my brother definitely had something on Trump. Your thoughts?

[Jennifer Welch]

Okay, I'm just gonna say this.

[Joy Reid]

I said this publicly before.

[Terry Moran]

Jeffrey told me that if he said.

[Joy Reid]

What he knew about the candidates, they'd.

[Donald Trump]

Have to cancel the election.

[Joy Reid]

He didn't tell me what he knew, but Jeffrey definitely had dirt on Trump. There we go. You could see the emails. Thank you very much. Your thoughts, Jennifer.

[Jennifer Welch]

Okay, I'm just going to say first and foremost, I love a gay Republican scandal. I live for it. I want to inject it into my veins, grind it up and snort it. Breakfast, lunch, dinner. Let's go. I love it. Remember Larry Craig, the senator that did the tap, tap, tap at the airport? My mother and I just loved that because there's such sanctimonious on the moral high ground, you know, family values. And everybody knows it's bullshit. Everybody knows they're lying. Everybody knows it. And so the fact that there is this gay scandal involving Donald Trump giving a blowjob to somebody named Bubba and that Putin has evidence of it, you remember, you and I are old enough to know what they did about Bill Clinton's blowjob. And that thing went on for a year. They impeach him, scheme, etc, etc, and this genuinely is a national security issue. And honestly, it makes sense with the way how obsequious Trump is towards Putin. And you know, I thought it was the PP tape forever, but I'll be damned if it isn't a blowjob tape. And I'm just gonna say this, I am gonna say this. I have had some off the record conversations and I have a theory, a long standing theory that MAGA has a DL down low, a DL demon queen problem, problem. I think a lot of this hyper masculinity and all of These brocasters, they're always in homo social relationships. They don't have women on the podcast. And all of these cabinet meetings is mainly men. I've always just thought there was a lot of repressed sexuality. I've had a couple of conversations with people that used to work with Trump and they're like, oh, yeah, we totally think he's closet. And I just think a lot of. And I know this is some tea and this is just opinions. I. But when you look at the way he. His misogyny and out of the closet, gay men are nothing like this. For the record, this is what happens when people really, really get repressed in their sexuality. But I just think this all. All of a sudden, the camera kind of came completely into focus. One person said, think about it. Trump projects that he wants a Barbie doll looking woman. He said, I'm a heterosexual man. I want a woman with cellulite. I want the flaws, the imperfections. But if a gay man were to think, what do straight men want? They would pick this, like, Barbie doll style woman. And I don't know. I just. Clearly, he has a bunch of sexual issues.

[Joy Reid]

And I need.

[Jennifer Welch]

And I want to say, as a person who's a huge ally for the LGBTQ plus community, people that passively have to live in the closet, I have nothing but empathy for. A lot of my friends in Oklahoma had to do this because their families, their jobs, and the homophobic environment. People who every day wake up and try to pass legislation that bullies and denies people's civil liberties that happen to be gay, queer, or trans. And then at night, they're out eating ass. They can fuck right on off. And I think that we should release the Grindr files on every last one of them.

[Joy Reid]

That is a mic drop of epic proportions. I cannot even continue. We get that sound, baby. If y' all are not listening to I've had it, you are missing all the tea, all the fun, all the cussing, all the fabulousness. Y' all need to do that. Please make sure that you subscribe. Y' all already subscribe to I've Had It. You can go right on over to. We're going to put the link in, but it is the I Had It, I've had it podcast and also subscribe to all of Jennifer Welch's social media, because she's fire. Thank you, my friend. I appreciate you so much.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you. And Joy will be on I've had it next Tuesday. And it is fire, baby. Thanks, Joy. Love you.

[Joy Reid]

Love you back. Thank you so much. Jason, please, a round of applause. Thank you so much. She is. Listen, let me tell you something. She does not play games when she goes on cnn, on Abby's show. Just clear the table because she's about to let off on everybody. But it is interesting. One thing that is definitely clear, that is true, y', all, as we come to the end of this, of this hour, this first hour of the show, Donald Trump really does despise women, right? For somebody that's that, you know, to Jennifer's point, has this sort of model perfect wife that, you know, has had all the plastic surgery to make herself look like a Barbie doll. And he wants to always be surrounded by women who all get the same. They all get the same surgery, so they all look alike. They all start to develop what they call MAGA face. They all get the puffed up lips. They all look the same. South park has made fun of the fact that like Kristi Gnomes face falls off every minute because it's so full of silicone or whatever they put in there. And they all have to look like that. They're all required to look like that. There's something very off about MAGA because the women all have to look like they came off of a, of a Barbie doll factory floor. And the men can look like hell. They look like whatever. You've got a lot of them that are married to, like, much, much, much, much, much older men. A lot of the women, and they've all got to be like faux tradwives, but they have a job. So, like, are you a tradwife or do you work? But there's all these requirements that you kind of portray this kind of 1950s perfect, you know, perfect waist, perfect breast, perfect thing. You have to portray that in order to be maga. But they also, they also propagate incredible cruelty as women. Kristi Noem, even as a woman, she's as cruel as Stephen Miller. Like, she's as horrifically cruel and mean as Stephen Miller. But she's looks like dark Barbie, like, dark old Barbie. Or like, you think of Megyn Kelly, who, you know, she looks like aging Barbie, but she's also incredibly mean. And I can tell you that as somebody who worked at NBC when she was there, like, just deeply, ragefully mean. You know, the Barbie that you pull out of your storage box, that's been there for about 14 years. And she's all dirty and dusty. Listen, that's how she looks. She's dirty, dusty Barbie. We gonna call her dusty Barbie from now on. People call her Megan R. Kelly now because she's just like, hey, look. And they weren't eight. He's like, they're not victims. They were, they were, they were pushing 16. Those girls were long in the tooth. They were pushing, they were pushing teenage years. The fact that she could say that after just in 2018, saying a 15 year old can't consent and she's got like a 14 year old and she's like, yeah, they weren't eight. Like that, that kind of cruelty. But she always has to have the plaster blonde hair, making fun of other people's looks. We had to go at her because she went at Jamel Hill, who's beautiful with no makeup. I've vacationed with Jamel Hill. She doesn't even need makeup. She's so pretty. But she's like, yeah, it's like you look like you could be Jamal Hill's mom if she had like a mean white mom. And you're, you're trying to compare looks with like a pretty young, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much younger woman. But they're all like that. They're mean and cruel. They hate immigrants, they're hateful, they're angry. They don't have empathy for immigrants. They don't have empathy for fellow Christian. If they're brown. They have no empathy. They're just. But they all look like a Barbie. They all look like a version of like an, as Jason said, like an old Barbie doll that's like in the box and you took it out. You're like, they're all like that. They all run. And to Jennifer Welch's point, the Stepford Wife look, the misogyny and hating women, the fact that they're anti women going to college that are trying to drive women out of the military, drive women out. And then the obsession with trans women. Note that they never talk about trans men, just trans women. There's like this. It is weird is all I'm saying. Welcome to hour two of the Joy Reid Show. It's weird, y'. All. Y' all can chat about it in, in the chat. Somebody said it's gross. It's gross is the most succinct way to say it. But they're all like evil, angry Barbie. It's weird. Anyhooms, let's talk about one of the stories that we talked about, I think, on Monday, yesterday. Well, let's go back. I want to go back for just one second. I want you guys to remember a video that I played for you guys on Monday. This is C1, And this is from the Washington Post, which matched up the February 2019 Cohen, Michael Cohen hearing with text messages.

[Michael Fanone]

Representative, President of the United States. And while we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way. Attorney Klein, privilege.

[Donald Trump]

Yes, I will turn it over.

[Joy Reid]

You, as my friend Mr. Meadows pointed out, misled this committee even today in a written submission that contradicted your testimony.

[Michael Fanone]

You have suggested you are going to review that. Did you review, are you going to.

[Joy Reid]

Review it in our next break to correct the record? Yes or no?

[Donald Trump]

Yes.

[Joy Reid]

Question. You helped out the President's campaign or were involved in the campaign as a representative, as a spokesman, even in your words today, it was your idea for the campaign dating back to 2011. Is that accurate? Yes or no?

[Michael Fanone]

Yes.

[Joy Reid]

Mr. Weisenberg and other individuals. Ms. Rona, who are those individuals? Are they with the Trump Organization? They. Are there other people that we should be meeting with?

[Michael Fanone]

So Allen Weisselberg is the chief financial officer.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Uh huh.

[Joy Reid]

You got to quickly give us as many names as you can so we can get to them.

[Michael Fanone]

Yes, ma'.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Am.

[Joy Reid]

As Ms. Rona, what is Ms. Rona's position?

[Michael Fanone]

Rona Graff is the Mr. Trump's executive assistant.

[Joy Reid]

And would she be able to corroborate many of the statements that you've made here?

[Michael Fanone]

Yes, she was. Her office is directly next to his and she's involved in a lot that went on.

[Joy Reid]

Well, yesterday I spoke live with one half of that exchange. Former Trump attorney Michael Cohen, who you just saw, there's a bit of that exchange.

[Michael Fanone]

Who's outlets that have been covering Representative Stacey Plaskett in terms of this collusion with Jeffrey Epstein during the 2019 hearing. In fact, something that broke just 40 minutes ago. There are multiple members of the House that are calling for the censure of Stacey Plaskett for her collusion with Jeffrey Epstein in this matter. Now a few things have to be acknowledged. Number one, I've always maintained knowing Donald Trump for as long as I did and being around him as often as I was during my time with him. I never saw him behave in the way that people are describing or trying to read into these emails that came out. You know, what happened prior to me, I will not discuss because I don't know, I wasn't there.

[Joy Reid]

You're talking about sexual crimes.

[Michael Fanone]

I'm talking about the Jeffrey Epstein relationship.

[Joy Reid]

That's right.

[Michael Fanone]

And Trump's participation. To me, again, I've never seen it. I never heard about it. I've never heard Jeffrey Epstein call. I never saw Jeffrey Epstein in the office. I don't know Jeffrey Epstein. I never in my life spoke to him, emailed with him, texted with him, had any communication with him whatsoever. And I want to be clear that my relationship with Trump as an.

[Joy Reid]

And so I just wanted to point out that he started working. Michael Cohen started working for Donald Trump in 2008, so. Or 2007. So this was toward the end when he and Epstein had fallen out. I just want to give you guys an update on the story. There was a call for censure of Representative Plaskett. That vote failed. It narrowly failed. Instead, Representative Plaskett has pushed back on it, saying that there are people on the other side who should be censured for their behavior. We are attempting still to get Representative Plaskett on the show. We were trying hopefully for tonight, but we're still working on that. Just wanna make sure I give you guys that update. All right, let's move on. We got some good news this week that I think is really, really important to break down in a significant way. I'm sure you've heard by now that a federal court issued a preliminary injunction Yesterday blocking the 2025 Texas redistricted maps from going into effect, ordering that the 2026 congressional election use the 2021 maps instead. Well, joining me now to help understand what that means and break it down for us is Texas State Rep. Jolanda Jones. We call her Jalanda with the map. She is here, my hair twin. How are you, my good sister?

[Jolanda Jones]

I am well.

[Donald Trump]

I am well.

[Terry Moran]

I'm well.

[Jolanda Jones]

How are you?

[Joy Reid]

I am wonderful. Thank you very much. But you know what? I'm hoping that I can maintain the joy that I felt in my soul, which I do believe I texted you about when I saw those maps go down. But you and I had a conversation earlier that kind of got me. Put me back down to earth. I was in a helium balloon with this decision. But you really explained it to me in a way that I would love for you to explain to our audience. What does it actually mean, this ruling?

[Jolanda Jones]

So I think that it's.

[Terry Moran]

You know what?

[Jolanda Jones]

I know I don't have a lot of time, so I actually wrote something so that I would be succinct.

[Joy Reid]

Perfect.

[Jolanda Jones]

So yesterday's El Paso ruling blocking Texas's racist 2025 congressional map is a major victory, but it may be short lived. That's the part that came down from the helium balloon. Because the United States Supreme Court is already considering Louisiana vs Calais, a case that could gut or destroy Section 2 of the Voting Rights act, the very tool that produced yesterday's win in a nutshell. And do you need for me to explain what Calais is?

[Joy Reid]

No, we. We've talked about it on the show. So if you all don't remember, Calais is a. Calais versus Louisiana. This is the case that essentially decides whether you can, I guess to make it short, racially gerrymander, right.

[Jolanda Jones]

In the state of Louisiana just actually is not. Well, it's in Louisiana in the Fifth Circuit, however, it'll affect the entire United States. And basically in Calais, the Supreme Court ordered re briefing and re arguing, which is extremely rare, on the issue of whether Section 2 of the Voting Rights act is constitutional or not. Believe that or not. So the only way that we've been able to stop legislatures from diluting our vote, cracking our vote, packing our vote, is because of that very section of the Voting Rights Act. If the Supreme Court determines that it's unconstitutional, then I respectfully submit to you that the per the temporary injunction that's going on now will be done, and then the Republicans can just go crack and pack all of our districts and dilute our voting strength. So that is the fear. And let me be clear. I wanted to go. When you go back to the. To the El Paso decision, what it said is you can't use those racist gerrymandered maps that you just passed during the special session that I didn't come back for to give them a quorum that they needed to pass it.

[Joy Reid]

Right?

[Jolanda Jones]

So what that. So before the El Paso ruling yesterday, Congressman Al Green, who currently represents Texas 9, was forced to file for Texas 18 because under those new racist gerrymandered maps, they took 65% of his Texas 9 and put it in 18. So he'd be poised to win it because Texas 9, under the current maps is. Is racially gerrymandered for a white Republican to win. A state rep named Briscoe Kane filed for it immediately because that's what it was gerrymandered for. The person who's in the worst position ever in all of this is Congressman Al Green, the cane shaker. And here's why. Right now he's filed for Texas 18 because under the new maps, he had 65 of his own district. Under the old maps, his district is like, I think, 2% of its former self.

[Joy Reid]

Right.

[Jolanda Jones]

Under the El Paso decision, it said, oh, no, throw out these new maps because they're racistly gerrymandered, and we're going to go back to the previous maps. So. So that's just an enjoyment by El Paso. So if Congressman Green could rely on the fact, which I don't believe is a fact, that the Supreme Court will uphold what the El Paso court did, then if I were him, I'd go and withdraw from Texas18 and go back to my old district because, hell, I'm gonna win that. I don't want it for the last 20 years.

[Joy Reid]

Right.

[Jolanda Jones]

So the last day to file is December 8th. It is November 19th.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Jolanda Jones]

And so what does he do? I mean, he'd have to be a, what do you call it, the people that have the crystal balls or whatever, the magic eight ball, to decide to figure out what's the Supreme Court gonna do. I don't have any faith that Trump's Supreme Court is going to uphold our voting rights. We know that dismantling Section 2 of the Voting Rights act was one of the plans in Project 2025. And since the Supreme Court has never questioned whether the Voting Rights act is constitutional or not, that makes me think, based on their racism in the past, that they want to dismantle it. And once they do that, Republicans can wipe us all out if they want to. You know, map wise.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Jolanda Jones]

And so it is a very difficult position to be in. And so, I don't know, Joy, you tell me, you tell me if you think Trump Supreme Court is going to keep our voting rights.

[Joy Reid]

I have no faith that they're going to uphold Section two, because if you think about it, they've all, I mean, and for what y', all, and we've talked about this on the Show before, the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments, they needed enabling legislation to make them actually take effect. Right. I mean, they couldn't actually keep slavery, the 13th Amendment, but they did a little asterisk. So they really maxed out on that, on using neighbor as slaves. But when you think about the 14th Amendment and equal protection clause, if you didn't have the Voting Rights act and the Civil Rights act, the Civil Rights act of 64 and the Voting Rights act of 65, those are basically enabling legislation to force the 14th Amendment to be in play, because the voting rights that were supposedly guaranteed in those amendments, no one was getting them. Black people weren't getting them. And so if they say that the Voting Rights act is unconstitutional, meaning it's racist against white people to protect black people's voting rights, which I think John Roberts has believed since he was a 20 something year old Reagan administration official, he just needs to figure out a way to do it where he can still get invited to the cocktail parties if Kalay is his chance to do to the Voting Rights act what his friend Alito did to our right to choose. Of course he's going to do it. And so then to me, talk about pragmatically, let's say the Voting Rights act goes down. You recently ran in District 18, the new. Was it the new. It was the new district 18. No, the old district 18. So an 18 is separate now from nine, and Al Green is in nine. So now he has to decide whether he stays in nine or no, whether.

[Jolanda Jones]

He stays in 18. Because he filed for 18.

[Joy Reid]

18. Gotcha.

[Jolanda Jones]

Because 18 had 65% of his.

[Joy Reid]

Of his old.

[Jolanda Jones]

Current district. Of his current district.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Jolanda Jones]

And so it's. It's. It. Look, here's what I think. Never has the Supreme Court ever doubted that the Voting Rights act was constitutional. Yeah, never. So we are an uncharted water. And while yesterday seemed like, oh my God, this is great. The only way for them to get this issue to the Supreme Court was to rule like they did. Right. To get it to the Supreme Court so that the Supreme Court could literally cut the legs out from under. And so I have. I don't even know if I'm cautiously optimistic because as my mother told me a long time ago, don't be surprised if white people. White. Don't be surprised if white people do white shit. And so. And right now all we ever hear is white people complaining. Those that aren't woke, which I think is a good thing, that they're being discriminated against. Like they're trying to compare their. The, the. The equalizing or equitable. Equitableizing. I just made that word up of things because of the history of slavery in this country. They see that as we are discriminating against them, which we're not splitting their families up like they're doing to this Hispanics right now. We're not separating them from their kids. We're not deporting them. We're not doing any of those things. So basically their white fragility is really the catalyst for them to dismantle our constitutional rights.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, I mean, the case. And they have a Justice Department whose civil rights division. I call it the injustice department at this point. Point. Because their civil rights division essentially is litigating, like Stephen Miller's anti civil rights organization. He made like his own version of the NAAWP where it's like he's. They sue any organization that's giving grants to black people or that's black women businesses.

[Jolanda Jones]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

That part is he and this other. You Know, all these other litigators who are out here saying that any remedy that helps, particularly black people, is racist, and it's really white Americans who are the true victims of discrimination. That is actually the core position of Project 2025 and this administration. So, yeah, if they get the opportunity to essentially eliminate all districts where a black person could win, they're going to do it. Because in their mind, they're saying that the true victims of discrimination, white American people, have to. Right. And that they have to, it has to be ameliorated to give them 100% so that it's fair.

[Jolanda Jones]

And let me tell you, I really want to get out my little violin or my little harp for their whining. It's just killing me. And so, again, I think that if you're shortsighted, you think it was a victory. But if you're looking at what they're doing, I mean, there's a case right now in the Supreme Court where they're even considering getting rid of a private right of action to sue for Voting Rights act or equal protection claims. So if I can't file a lawsuit myself because I'm a victim of discrimination, then who's going to do it? I mean, the Justice Department, really? Trump's Justice Department, where he thinks the only victims of anything are rich white people. I don't understand.

[Joy Reid]

But.

[Jolanda Jones]

So I think that we need to hope, wish and pray that the Supreme Court rules before December Eigth so that Congressman Green can make, I guess, an informed decision about where he has the best chance to win, but we just don't know that. And so I, I worry about him and, and being able to have a fair shot to even run and his constituents to have a fair shot to even elect him, which they've done for, like, the last 20 years.

[Joy Reid]

State Representative Jelanda Jones of the great state of Texas always here bringing us the maps and the information and the, and the truth. Love it or not. We need the truth, and the truth shall set us free. Thank you so much, my sister. I appreciate it.

[Jolanda Jones]

For sure. And we'll be back because I have the maps that we talked about that, that I was talking about before the ruling, and we're going to talk about those so you can see with your own eyes.

[Joy Reid]

Perfect.

[Jolanda Jones]

Where everything is.

[Joy Reid]

We're going to schedule that so you can come back, and we're going to, we're going to get into it. You know, we love a nerdy map conversation. We do that. Thank you.

[Jolanda Jones]

Like, nerds of the world unite.

[Joy Reid]

Nerds of the World.

[Jolanda Jones]

Bald headed blonde nerds of the world.

[Joy Reid]

Blonde nerds of the world. Thank you so much. All right. You see, that's how we do it. Wow. So it is. It is. It is bad news. It is good news. Bad news. Good news, bad news. We also know that in the district that Jalanda Jones ran in, Christian Menifee is the candidate that's running. Eventually. What would happen if these maps collapse again is that let's say Al Green ran in his old district. The two of them will end up battling it out. Whoever wins that 18 race would then have to actually go against Al Green in yet another election. So that's. They're collapsing the district to basically make two black representatives and then multiple Latino representatives fight it out for fewer seats. That's really what they're doing. All right, so let's hit that E block. As we've seen since June 14, despite all of these horrible things happening, the resistance to this autocratic kleptocratic Trump regime is getting stronger and also getting organized. And tomorrow is going to be converging once again on our nation's capital, Washington D.C. in the form of something called Remove the Regime. There is the main flyer for Remove the Regime. It's being labeled a political comedy. Well, there you go. Okay, There you go. There's some of the political faves who will be a part of that. You can see all of those wonderful people who are out here talking the talk and walking the walk. And also some of your favorite comedy stars you can see there. There's some of the comedians who you know and love. I saw Jolly good Ginger in there. Well, join us. I think we do have. Joining us now is one of superstars, former metropediographer and January 6, Michael Fanone is the host of the Michael Fanon Great substack we used to be following. Michael, welcome.

[Michael Fanone]

Thank you so much for having me, Joy, and it is wonderful seeing you again.

[Joy Reid]

It is always great to see you. Okay, so tell me what you all are doing. It looks like a star studded event. What is the purpose and how can folks get involved? Yeah.

[Michael Fanone]

So it's a three day event. It begins tomorrow at 10am there's going to be thousands of us converging at Union station in Washington D.C. just a stone's throw from the United States Capitol. We're going to be marching from the flare tents. Flare is an organization that has maintained a physical presence presence in Washington D.C. since May of of this year, protesting this administration. And we're going to do congressional visits. We have thousands of People signed up to visit with members of Congress on both sides of the political aisle and demand the impeachment conviction and removal of Donald Trump and his unlawful administration.

[Joy Reid]

So the challenge, I feel like, with the idea of impeachment is that this country has actually never successfully convicted anyone in an impeachment. Going all the way back to Andrew Johnson. In your mind, is there a realistic chance that that could happen, even with all that Trump has done?

[Michael Fanone]

I don't, you know, like, I understand all those things, but we also have never had a president like Donald J. Trump. This is the most unlawful, corrupt administration in American history. And so I think that, if anything, if the no Kings protest taught me anything, it's that the vast majority of Americans are fed up or sick and tired with this administration's corruption. We're sick and tired of this administration's weaponization of the government against the American people, and we're here to demand their removal. I understand that, and so do the organizers of this event. That impeachment is a daunting task. But again, we're trying to seek a political solution to this problem before things get wildly out of control. And I feel as though we are. The window for that is. Is closing rapidly.

[Joy Reid]

And I'm just going to know, buddy, your Internet connection is just a bit hanky, but I can understand what you're saying, so I'm going to try to keep going. You know, what do you think is the breaking point for most people? As you said, there's just a blatant lawlessness to he's doing. He seems to be treating his job like he's a mob boss. God knows if he's getting personal money off of the things the government is doing. He's certainly making a lot of money off of crypto. He's traveling. Saudi Arabia loves them because they're putting money in his pocket, doing business with his golf courses. Everything he's doing is personally enriching him. But is there a breaking point that you've seen for people that, you know, is it the tariffs, if it the cost of living? Is it him physically destroying the White House? Like, what is it for the people.

[Michael Fanone]

That I talk to?

[Joy Reid]

It's.

[Michael Fanone]

It's two things. Number one, it's ICE and Customs and Border Patrol. And the way that they have gone about enforcing this administration's policies, defying the law, defying court orders, thumbing their nose, flipping the middle finger at, you know, the justice system and law and order in this country, that is a huge component of it. I think that that has started started to touch each and every American. Anyone that has any degree of compassion or empathy for their fellow man sees what this, if you want to call it a law enforcement agency is doing, and they're disgusted by it. But the other thing is, you know, what the economy is. Is abysmal. You know, I myself am someone who is about to lose access to health insurance because my premiums are going to go up about $800 a month, and that's just not something that I can afford. And it's the same with millions of Americans. And seeing that this administration's unwillingness to negotiate when it comes to subsidies for, you know, affordable care and health care and denying access to Medicare and Medicaid and SNAP benefits and, I mean, just doing things to hurt.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, I think we might have lost Michael. All right, we're going to give him one more second. We're going to see if the interwebs will free him and release him from wireless bondage. Let's see if it's going to happen. Let's see if it's going to happen. Oh, there you go. You're back. You're back, you're back. His microphone. Oh, your mic. You might be muted. You might be muted. So I'm going to do it. One that the microphone, the. The. The Internet is not. Is not on our side on. On today. If people want to get involved and they are, as you said, disgusted by what this regime is doing, and they want to be a part of what y' all are doing, how can they do that?

[Michael Fanone]

You can go to removetheregime.com and check out the entire schedule of events. You can also donate there. Because this is a grassroots effort that has been funded primarily by people that are actually involved in organizing the event, like myself, like Cliff Cash, Jennifer Denison. All of the organizers of this event, you know, have pitched in to make sure that it can. That it can happen. But like I said, we're having congressional visits tomorrow. We have a comedy event on Friday night, and then Saturday is the rally on the National Mall, as well as a free concert with, if you may be familiar with the band the Dropkick Murphy's.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Fanone]

Very politically active and have been very outspoken against this administration. They will be putting on a free concert as well as a number of other guests. And again, like I said, we are. We are looking to impeach, convict, and remove Donald Trump once and for all. And I'll tell you, you know, Joy, if you'll just give me another moment. Yeah, we cannot. We can't. Wait for an institution. We cannot wait for a politician, and we can't wait for a scandal to remove Donald Trump from office. If there's one thing that Donald Trump's, you know, two terms in office have taught me, and I think a lot of others, is that he is. When you think that he's out, he will find a way to maneuver, to manipulate and pull himself back up into power. And so this has to be a movement of the people, by the people, to remove Donald Trump from office.

[Joy Reid]

Agreed. And I think what you were saying, Michael, is that when you think he's down and you think he's out, he finds a way to claw his way back in. Like the Terminator, only less entertaining, because you're absolutely right. There's a viral quality to what he does that infects others. There are other hosts that it gloms onto, like the alien and aliens. And it seems that you can't get rid of him. He still comes back to Earth on the mothership, even when you think everyone's in hypersleep. So you're absolutely right. And look, you had me at Dropkick Murphy's. You and the Drop Kick Murphy's. Come on, y'. All. How do you not want that? That is incredible. Michael Fanon, my friend, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for all the hard work that you do.

[Michael Fanone]

Thanks, Joy.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you very much. And if y' all are not familiar with the Dropkick Murphy's, Google them. They are bad to the bone, honey. They go at Trump hard. They are an Irish punk band that is so good. And you're going to absolutely love them if you're in D.C. we're also going to put the link in the chat here. I'm not in the chat. We're going to put the link in the description to the show to make sure that you guys can get involved in that. You definitely want to do it. All right, so we're going to head into. Into the F block. So when speaking to reporters on board Air force1 On November 14, Donald Trump was asked about the recently released emails from Jeffrey Epstein, which we started the show with, that mentioned him. Now, during the scrum, which is what they call it when reporters converge on an elected official, Catherine Lucy, who is Bloomberg's White House correspondent, took the opportunity to ask Trump a question, to which he responded, quiet, quiet Piggy, which we played earlier in the show. But it's not like that's like a new thing for Trump. He has a history of verbally abusing women reporters. I'm gonna play you guys a montage that's just a taste of what it's like to cover Donald Trump. This is after one.

[Donald Trump]

Will you let me finish my say? You are the worst. You're with Bloomberg, right? You are the worst. I don't know why they even have you.

[Jennifer Welch]

Quiet.

[Donald Trump]

Quiet news. When you say that, darling, that's fake news.

[Joy Reid]

Why would you. Department of Defense.

[Donald Trump]

Listen.

[Terry Moran]

Be quiet.

[Donald Trump]

Listen. You don't listen. You never listen. That's why you're second grade.

[Terry Moran]

What he did.

[Donald Trump]

Well, you know that much about. You know nothing about.

[Terry Moran]

You know nothing about nothing.

[Donald Trump]

You fake news.

[Joy Reid]

But let me do it now.

[Donald Trump]

It's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. You start off with a man who's highly respected. Asking him a horrible, insubordinate and just a terrible question. No fake news. Cnn. Oh, yeah, yeah. Here we go. Wait till you hear this question.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you, sir.

[Donald Trump]

You should really say how great house.

[Jennifer Welch]

Account to have it go out on.

[Donald Trump]

Give me a break. It was just somebody doing.

[Joy Reid]

It's a little long, but I have a little fun.

[Donald Trump]

Don't you? Who you with?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

Politico.

[Joy Reid]

Dasha Burns, sir.

[Donald Trump]

Politico. Politico's gone bad. They've been so wrong about everything. Politico.

[Joy Reid]

No, no.

[Donald Trump]

Politico has been so wrong about everything. Let's get somebody else to ask some questions.

[Jennifer Welch]

You mind?

[Donald Trump]

Is that all right?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

As a personal gift to you, why.

[Joy Reid]

Not leave it behind?

[Donald Trump]

Your ABC Fake News. Right.

[Joy Reid]

Why not?

[Jolanda Jones]

Only.

[Donald Trump]

Only abc. Well, a few of you would. Let me tell you, you should be embarrassed asking that question. They're giving us a free jet. But he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to obtain embarrass our guests by asking a question like that. Well, I haven't heard that. You're telling me. Who are you with? Who? You with Fake News. NBC. You Fake News.

[Joy Reid]

What a.

[Donald Trump]

What a. NBC has gone down the tubes along with most of the rest. I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake and it's so wrong. And we have a great commissioner.

[Jennifer Welch]

The chairman, medical professionals have warned.

[Donald Trump]

No, not you. You're cnn. You're Fake News. Go ahead. You especially, you should be proud of those pilots. And you shouldn't be trying to demean them. Those pilots flew at great risk. Big chance that they'd never come back home and see their husbands or their wives. Let me just tell You. You and NBC Fake News, which is one of the worst. And cnn, New York Times crimes are all bad. They're sick. There's something wrong with them. You know what? You should be praising those people instead of fake news. Fortunately, nobody watches. Is anybody watching CNN nowadays? I haven't seen it in a long time.

[Joy Reid]

Some of your supporters are wary of.

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

The US Getting involved in another foreign wall. And some believe that we should support.

[Donald Trump]

Do you ever ask a positive question? No, I didn't know. I mean, I would. I would figure it was ABC Fake News that would ask that question. One of the worst.

[Joy Reid]

Me, I'm with. I'm the travel pool, but I'm with NBC News.

[Donald Trump]

NBC. NBC Fake News.

[Joy Reid]

No, it's not.

[Donald Trump]

NBC is one of the worst. What else do you have?

[Joy Reid]

Is that the case?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I don't want to talk about it. Because fake news like you, you're a terrible reporter. And fake news like you, they just.

[Joy Reid]

Keep you about backsliding on democracy in Poland.

[Terry Moran]

Quiet, quiet.

[Donald Trump]

Okay, question. Yeah, go ahead.

[Terry Moran]

Sure.

[Donald Trump]

She's shocked that I picked her, like, in a state of shock.

[Joy Reid]

I'm not thinking.

[Donald Trump]

That's okay. I know you're not thinking. You never do.

[Joy Reid]

I'm sorry.

[Donald Trump]

No, go ahead, go ahead.

[Joy Reid]

In a Tweet this weekend, Mr. President, you said that it's incorrect to say you're limited. Thank you, Mr. President. Now that you've answered several questions on trade, I'd like to turn.

[Donald Trump]

Don't do that. Do you have. Excuse me. Do you have a question on trade? We'll do one or two more questions.

[Joy Reid]

Several questions.

[Donald Trump]

Okay. Don't do that. That's not nice.

[Joy Reid]

Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Besides that, somebody is before you. Excuse me. Don't do that. Do you have a question on trade?

[Joy Reid]

You answered several questions.

[Donald Trump]

You have a question on trade.

[Joy Reid]

My question is on.

[Donald Trump]

Okay, please. Yes.

[Joy Reid]

You said the FBI should interview whoever that they believe is a appropriate. Does that include Julie Swetnick, the third accuser? And can you promise to release the full findings?

[Jennifer Welch]

Give me your question after they finish their report.

[Donald Trump]

Mr. President, give me a question, please. Give her the mic, please.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you very much. Was border security or funding for the while discuss.

[Joy Reid]

You see that the question is insubordinate. Insubordinate to who? Saying that ABC should lose their license. The. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. The rudeness. The rudeness. That was like three minutes of just pure disgust in this. Oh, it wasn't fun to edit. Was. But the reason I wanted to show y' all that much. That is what it is like and has been like from the beginning, from when he was president in 2017. This is the way he speaks to women reporters. He clearly despises women and he has no respect for women. And what's shocking about it is the fact that when this happens, nobody that's around these Reporters says, hey, Mr. President, that's too much. No one stands up for them. No men intervene and they continue to say, Mr. President, Mr. President, sir, sir, sir. Everyone continues to maintain this asymmetry of respect, respect toward him because he's the president, where he exhibits no respect toward them. Know that the President of the United States is the employee of the American people. He's not our king. You really don't owe him that kind of respect. You think they do that to prime ministers in England? They savage them. And the idea that people still become so respectful when he is being so disrespectful. And by the way, it's not just women reporters at all. Trump clearly cannot handle any questions at all. I want you all to listen to how he responded. It's not just women, I'm telling you. He just can't respond to any sort of questions. I want to let you hear how he responded to then ABC reporter Terry Moran when he factually challenged Trump's false belief that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man who trumps doj, admitted it, falsely arrested and then rendered to a hell prison in el Salvador with 200 plus other men. His false belief that Albergo Garcia had gang signs tattooed on his hand. Take a listen to this.

[Donald Trump]

Member of a gang. And then they looked, and on his knuckles he had MS.13.

[Terry Moran]

There's a dispute.

[Donald Trump]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. He had MS.13 on his knuckles.

[Terry Moran]

He had some tattoos that are interpreted that way, but let's move on.

[Jolanda Jones]

Wait a minute.

[Donald Trump]

Okay, Terry, Terry, Terry.

[Terry Moran]

He did not have the letter MS.1.

[Donald Trump]

It says MS.13.

[Terry Moran]

That was photoshopped. So let me.

[Donald Trump]

That was Photoshopped, Terry.

[Terry Moran]

You can do that.

[Donald Trump]

Hey, they give. Giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you're doing the interview. I picked you because frankly, I never heard of you. But that's okay. I picked you, Terry, but you're not being very nice. He had ms.13 tattoo.

[Terry Moran]

We'll agree to disagree.

[Donald Trump]

I want to move on to something else. Terry, do you want me to show you the picture?

[Terry Moran]

I saw the picture.

[Donald Trump]

Well, and you think it was Photoshop?

[Terry Moran]

Here we go, here we go.

[Donald Trump]

Don't Photoshop it. Go look at his hand.

[Terry Moran]

He did have tattoos that can be interpreted that way. I'm not an expert. Expert on them. I want to turn to Ukraine.

[Donald Trump]

I want to get to Ukraine. No, no, no, no. He had Ms. As clear as you can be not interpreted. This is why people no longer believe.

[Terry Moran]

Well, the news.

[Donald Trump]

Because when he was photographed in El Salvador.

[Terry Moran]

In El Salvador. They aren't there, but let's just go. They aren't there when he's in El.

[Donald Trump]

Salvador there now, right?

[Terry Moran]

No, they were never there.

[Donald Trump]

He's got MS.13 on his knuckles. All right, okay, we'll take a look. It's. You do such a disservice. We'll take a look at. Why don't you just say, yes, he does.

[Terry Moran]

It's contested.

[Joy Reid]

And, I mean, that was pretty good. He, he tried to hold him accountable. The man is. You cannot educate him with the truth. He is in such a bubble and he just insists. You must admit to the lie he's telling you. Okay, so that man, that gentleman, Terry Moran, was eventually fired by ABC News for this incredibly accurate Tweet. This is F3, which he posted on his Twitter account in which he talked about two of the architects of the Trump policies of mass deportation, concentration camps, rendition to foreign countries that migrants have never even been to, and of course, Stephen Miller's 3500 non white migrant to date quota. This is what the tweet said. It said. The thing about Stephen Miller is not that he's the brains behind Trumpism. Yes, he is one of the people who conceptualizes the impulses of the trumpets of the Trumpist movement and translates them into policy. But that's not what's interesting about Miller. It's not brains, it's bias. Miller is a man who is richly endowed with the capacity for hatred. He's a world class hater. You can see this just by looking at him, because you can see that his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment. He eats his hate. Trump is a world class hater, but his hatred only is a means to an end. And that end is his own glorification. That's his spiritual nourishment. No lies detected. And joining me now is the aforementioned Terry Moran Moore, now the independent journalist and host of a Terry Moran substack and an incredible YouTube channel. We're gonna. We want you to follow both of those things. We're gonna put both of those in the chat so you guys can follow Terry on all his things. Terry, thanks so much for being here. It's good to see us for the second time today. I know.

[Terry Moran]

I love it that we don't see each other for a long time and now we're seeing each other twice today. It's great.

[Joy Reid]

We're making it a thing. Yeah. We were on a sub stack earlier today, which you can find on my sub stack as well as Terry's sub stack. It was a lot of fun. We had a great conversation. I'm going to reprieve some of it here, but I want to start by that you parried with Donald Trump on this fact that Kilmar Abrego Garcia did not have the words MS.13 tattooed on his hands. He just didn't. And that ate up like a good four minutes of your interview because he just wanted to browbeat you into submission, talk about what it's like to try to interview this person.

[Terry Moran]

Well, it was good, clean fun. I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. But the problem there was I was on a tight clock. And I have been criticized essentially for saying, okay, let's move on. But there were some big issues to cover. And I was watching the clock go down. And so I actually didn't think he'd push it that far. I thought, okay, yeah, fine, whatever. But he kept like a dog at a bone going on about the tattoos on the guy's knuckles. And at some point, Joe, I have to tell you, he was, he was so insistent on it, so spitting angry about it, I started to doubt my own facts. I was like, wait, am I getting this wrong? Does he have those 10? And then it was clear that he was just ranting. And what it tells me is that he's a guy with the unique capacity of just through sheer broken free personality, a force of raging will that he can never. He's so insecure. He can never be wrong, he can never be doubted, he can never be anything but glorified. He can convince himself of anything. And at that moment he was absolutely convinced that those stupid photoshopped Ms. Thirteen were the real thing, were actually on his skin. And I'll tell you this, he was furious when the interview ended. Stormed Bay. We were supposed to actually do a tour of the Oval Office in the Rose Garden. He's not, after that interview goes back and the first thing he does, the Vice President Disney went back with him to try and get him back into the Oval Office because we had a primetime hour. We're going to miss 10 minutes. And he said, he said to one of his aides, go get that photograph. He was still on about it at the end of the interview. It's crazy.

[Joy Reid]

He seems to be delusional in that I'm assuming his aides give him the things that will mollify him because he seems to me to be at least pre dementia where he just believes false things. I have elders that have the beginnings of that kind of memory, and they get angry because they have a belief in a false thing and won't get off of it. That's what it says to me. But you're, as a man, you can you parry with him in a different kind of way than the way that I've seen female reporters deal with him. Quite frankly, he seems to be much more interested in bullying women reporters. Tell me if you think that's true and what do you make of the fact that when he mistreats and verbally abuses female reporters, no men around them say, hey, Mr. President, that's. You've taken that too far.

[Terry Moran]

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. We've seen it over the years. It's disgusting. It's something I don't want my son to see, treating women that way. The other day he calls somebody piggy. He was trying to trash Mary Bruce, my former colleague at ABC News. He's had a history of that.

[Joy Reid]

That, right.

[Terry Moran]

This whole April Ryan, everybody, you know who offends him, especially women, he wants to put in their place. That's a problem. Like here and here men, it is different. But one of the keys that I had is he responds to a man who wants to fight with him. And I didn't. I. I didn't. I want to treat him with the respect he ought due to the office. And I just decided, in fact, when he tried to come after me.

[Joy Reid]

I don't even know who you are.

[Terry Moran]

I was like, yeah, I laughed at him. I was like, I knew. And at one point I realized he's very mean. He's a mean, like a dog mean, but he's not tough. He will back down.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, right. He's solicitous. And it seems to me that his first tack is to be solicitous and to suck up. And then the minute you don't suck up, back and praise him. He reminds me of Charlie X on Star Trek. I don't know if you're a Trekkie, but back in the day, one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek, this little kid named Charlie X ends up on the Enterprise. And he's like, if. If everyone doesn't kiss his ass, he, like, makes their face disappear. He, like, punishes them. You know, he's Joffrey Baratheon Trump. He's between those two Characters. Right. Because it's an. It's a neediness.

[Terry Moran]

I love the pop culture references there. That fixes it perfectly. And it is a neediness. That's why I'm not sure that the ms.13 thing is cognitive decline or something that he has developed himself into. He's a monstrous personality. He cannot be doubting himself ever. And that's why he must bend reality to his needs, to his psychological needs. That's a weak man. But what is ferocious about him is that he has the power over tens of millions of our fellow citizens to bend reality for them, too. And that's what's scary.

[Joy Reid]

Let me show you just a little bit before Jason. This is an ice raid that took place in St. Paul. We're not gonna play the whole video, but I just want you to look up because you talked about the cruelty of Stephen Miller and so accurately describe yours as a journalist, describing what you see. And I see, and I think we all see the same thing. I just want to show. We're just going to block you to kind of. And Minnesota. These kind of scenes, Terry, are playing out all over the country where smoke.

[Jennifer Welch]

Bombs are being thrown, the people are.

[Joy Reid]

Being brutalized, thrown to the ground.

[Jolanda Jones]

Masked men are kidnapping people, taking people away.

[Jennifer Welch]

There's a chaos to it.

[Jolanda Jones]

There's a.

[Jennifer Welch]

There's ugly crystal knocking vibe to it.

[Joy Reid]

Imagine in the time that you've been.

[Jennifer Welch]

A journalist, you've been covering wars, you've.

[Joy Reid]

Been covering foreign countries falling apart, that these would be scenes from the United States.

[Terry Moran]

No, no. The first time I saw the masks and the. And the jacked up ex, you know, paramilitary gear on federal law enforcement officers, not troops. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And I couldn't believe. And it makes me sad to this moment that the whole country really, across the political spectrum, isn't defending the liberty that our forefathers and foremothers fought and died and struggled for, right? And instead we have this cheering on of jackbooted law enforcement. Look, the federal government has the right and duty to enforce the laws. So do our police. They don't wear masks. So do our judges. They don't wear masks. They're jacked up in paramilitary gear. Unless it's genuinely going to be a high, a fire, live fire situation where they know they're going into a gang holdout or whatever it might be. These are protesters. These are working people on their way home from work. These are moms picking up their kids at schools and they're all, all. They're all gooned up and it is probably the saddest thing for me in this last nine months that more Americans, you know, you can be for very strict immigration enforcement. You can be for no immigration at all. But they didn't say, wait a minute, the founders of this country and the people who fought the Civil War and fought to defend this country and the people who built this country, they would never have accepted this. They would never have accepted this. And I don't, to this moment, I don't understand why people aren't as. As shocked and outraged. You can find some legal loophole, you can find some crease or crevice in the, in the law and jack it open and pour troops and poor paramilitary law enforcement into it, but it's not us. It's not, you know, the Yanks, the Yankees. It's. It's not the rebels. It's not the people who won the Civil War. It's a. It's a sheepish people, or worse yet, somebody who signed on to what he wants to do, which is clearly concentrate power so that his opponents and their opponents never get power again.

[Joy Reid]

And this is supposed to be a Christian country. Right? I mean. Right. I think there was something about not wanting soldiers quartered in the home of America. Part of the Declaration of Independence was the idea that King George, mad King George, could quarter soldiers in your home. They wanted a due process. Like this is literally written in the Constitution that you're not supposed to be able to simply seize people off the street. That's what King George could do. So it is ironic, but I wanna show another video. This is F5. This is ice waiting outside of churches in Chicago waiting for people to finish worshiping. And here is the pastor inside announcing in Spanish to the people inside of the church that ISIS outside waiting for them. Now people are afraid to pray. They're afraid to pray.

[Jennifer Welch]

US Bishops have made a very strong statement about the deportation and detention of migrants. What do you think of it? And they kind of said that you've got their back.

[Joy Reid]

Have you?

[Jennifer Welch]

Were you behind that?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I've made some statements about that already. I appreciate very much what the bishops have said. I think it's a very important statement. I would invite especially all Catholics, but people of goodwill to listen carefully to what they said. I think we have to look for ways of treating people humanely, treating people with the dignity that they have. If people are in the United States illegally, there are ways to treat that. There are courts, there's a system of justice. I think there are a lot of problems in the system. No one has said that the United States should have open borders. I think every country has a right to determine who and how and when people enter. But when people are living good lives, and many of them for 10, 15, 20 years, to treat them in a way, way that is extremely disrespectful to say the least. And there's been some violence, unfortunately. I think, I think that the bishops have been very clear in what they said and I think that I, I would just invite all people in the United States to listen to them. Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

How important do you think that it is you as a Catholic? We talked earlier about like, you know, the faith aspect of this, number one, that a supposedly Christian country has adopted a policy of absolute hatred toward immigrants. And many Christians go along with that. And how important do you think it is to now have a Pope in place as a international spiritual leader who can push back on that in English, as an American?

[Terry Moran]

Oh, I love him. I love him. I'm a native born Chicago and I'm still a Bears fan. And to hear Pope Leo speak with that south side accent, my dad was from the south side and, and apparently help the Bears, who are seven and three for the first time in a long time. But a lot of last minute victories, you know, who knows? But to he, but to hear him more importantly speak that simple truth, Every single person is deserving of dignity. You enforce the law with dignity. That's what supposedly distinguished us. And to see, as you say this, this glee, this relish of the pain, the psychological and emotional pain and the physical pain, that's what Trump wants to see as well, that these people are suffering. I don't understand how someone like that calls themselves a Christian, a follower of Christ. You know, as, as the Pope says, countries have borders that got laws. You enforce them to keep order. That's good. But you cannot do it by violating the basic human dignity of every single person. And that's written into our Declaration of Independence. We didn't live up to it for a long time. We still don't. It's a goal that has, was set before us by those guys. They may not have been understood fully what they were saying when they said all are created equal, all of us. And that's the simple truth that this country was, that's the dream of this country. And he articulates that. And I love it. I love it. To hear the Chicago accent speaking plainly. I got to meet him actually right after he was elected Pope, very briefly, and he's a, he's a little Fella, very quiet, very strong. Never Forget he spent 20 years as a missionary in Peru. He thought he'd end his life there. He became a citizen, picked out his graves, picked out where he wanted to be buried. Yeah, he's a. He's stronger than he looks.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, he's definitely stronger than Trump. And I love Pope Francis. I thought Pope Francis was, was great, but this guy he saw and I love that he's. He's also a Creole from New Orleans, which I love. The fact that his family Creole makes me so happy. Let's go. I want to come back to ABC for a minute. I'm going to skip F7 and go to F8. There was an ABC report who I thought asked a really solid question about Donald Trump and whether it is corrupt for him to be accepting money from Saudi Arabia. And then the reporter then turns to the emir from Saudi Arabia and asked, asks about Jamal Khashoggi and the murder of him and whether or not the crown prince was involved or at least you know, what we understand was involved in killing him. Let's play F8 and Donald Trump's ragey answer.

[Donald Trump]

Somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened, but he knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that.

[Terry Moran]

Just. Yes, Mr. President, you're. Allow me to answer. You know, I feel painful about, you know, families of 911 in America. But you know, we have to focus on reality. Reality based on CIA documents and based on a lot of documents that Osama bin Laden, he used Saudi people in that event for one main purpose is, is to destroy this relation, to destroy the American Saudi relation. That's the purpose of 911. So whoever buying that, that means they are helping.

[Joy Reid]

We'll leave that. And actually, you know what, Jason, I apologize. I'm going to go backwards. Let's play it because I do want to give this reporter her due. This is F7. This is the actual question that elicited that ragey response. Mr. President, for your family to be.

[Jennifer Welch]

Doing business in Saudi Arabia while you're president, is that a conflict of interest?

[Joy Reid]

And your royal highness, the US Intelligence concluded that you orchestrated the brutal murder of a journalist. 911 families are furious that you are.

[Jolanda Jones]

Here in the Oval Office. Why should Americans trust me?

[Joy Reid]

Who are you with?

[Representative Adelita Grijalva]

And the same to you, Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Now, who are you with?

[Joy Reid]

I'm with ABC News, sir.

[Donald Trump]

You're with who?

[Joy Reid]

ABC News, sir.

[Donald Trump]

Fake News. Abc Fake News. One of the worst. One of the worst in the business.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. He does his usual thing. And now the White House has come out with a stage statement. They've posted a statement from the White House with White House insignia on it saying that ABC, this is F8A is not a news outlet. That it is not news. Sorry. From the official channels of the White House, our White House saying that ABC is not news. Jason's going to put that up and I just want to get your response, Harry. Go ahead, Troy. I didn't put it up. Oh, okay. All right. Well, I'm, I'm just going to go ahead and just tell you what it is. He. It essentially says, and I'm going to pull it up here on my, on my phone here, that ABC News is not a news network. And it says ABC News is not journalism. It's a Democrat spin operation masquerading as a broadcast network. The network's long standing commitment to hoaxes, character assassinations and outright fiction targeting only one side of the political aisle is a deliberate deception to wage war on President Trump and the millions of Americans who elected him to multiple terms. That was posted with the White House insignia. Terry, your thoughts?

[Terry Moran]

Well, first, my thoughts are with my colleague Mary Bruce, who asked that question. And as good a reporter as you're going to find in corporate legacy, mainstream media right now. I'm proud of her. I texted her. Second, I've got. No, I'm. I had a wonderful career at ABC News. I got no hard feelings. And in fact, I kind of. That's my alma mater in some ways, I look at. Although my, My departure was, was not exactly graduation, but more important, that tells you all you need to know about Donald Trump. The entire administration, the entire MAGA movement, they don't want to hear a single syllable. What she asked was perfectly factual. American intelligence identified Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman as being involved in the murder of Adnan Khashoggi. And that is what. What his own administration having. His administration found that that's what happened. So she was basing it on fact as she was the allegation that his family's going to do business there and he's gonna, you know, you scratch my back, I scratch your back. So they're defined facts, but they don't want any fact. They want a story told to the American people that first, divides us, second, makes us stupider, and third, makes us subservient and submissive to him and his government. They have to come after ABC News. Is ABC News perfect? No. I spent a long time there, though, and it, I think it could use some more viewpoint diversity. It could use some more diversity of all kinds. When there's a brief moment when it did seem there. The hiring changed at ABC News. We all remember that time, the editorial conversation. Joy, this is not going to come as a surprise to you got much richer people who didn't speak up before, people who were, who were hired, who might not have been hired. It just got better. I thought ABC News, in some ways it didn't, but, but it's quality editorial discussion got better, I thought. And he doesn't want anything like that. And that is an organization that is trapped, but in my judgment, not in its viewpoint or in some ideology, it's trapped by the corporate model and the commercial interests that limit how the news, this kind of news, this revolutionary period we're undergoing with Trump trying to change the fundamental nature of our democracy. I just don't think corporate news is meeting the moment right now because it doesn't have the tools, not because of bias.

[Joy Reid]

I 100% agree with you. Exit question to you, Terry. I wish I could give you for a flower. You have to bring you, we have to bring you back to talk about more about this. How are you enjoying your freedom and do you feel more liberated to tell truths that would have been limited in a corporate environment?

[Terry Moran]

Well, there's no question about that, Joy. I can do stories. First story I did when I came out, came out was I had been pitching to ABC News this story about the, the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio.

[Joy Reid]

Right.

[Terry Moran]

The Haitian community there. I had covered them during the campaign when Trump said, oh, in that town there was the Haitians are eating the pets. And of course they weren't. And then as soon as he got into office, he removed their temporary protected status. And 15 to 20,000 people who had helped lift that town out of a very tough time, who had been there for years were in limbo. And I thought it was a great story. ABC wouldn't do it, partly because no one else was doing it, maybe because they thought it would offend Trump, I don't know. But that's the first story I did because I could and I could do it in a way that I at length and with feeling and language that matched the moment I thought. Mostly I'm trying to do exactly what I was, what I learned how to do at ABC News, report the news fairly and accurately. And I believe to do that today you do need to use the words that describe what we're seeing, what we're experiencing. You can't duck it because then you're ducking what the truth of the situation is and that's no service to anyone. So yes, I feel freer, not necessarily to vent my opinion, although I can not sure anybody cares about it. But to tell you what I know, what I've discovered through my reporting and how I understand it.

[Joy Reid]

You, I believe you know, people got mad at you for but you, you did what every good journalist is supposed to do. You looked with your eyes and you told us what you saw. That is what a journalist is. It's what a journalist is supposed to do. I commend you for it. And I am just so proud to be out here in these independent media streets with you, my friend. Thank you so much for all that you do. I am a huge fan of your work. So thank you. I hope you will come back often. Please tell everyone how they can follow your work.

[Terry Moran]

You bet. So I'm on Substack under Real patriotism and on YouTube and Spotify under the same name. So there's a real patriotism with Terry. Man, I kind of, I don't know if I'm going to keep that name but I kind of felt, I kind of feel we all love our country to one degree or another and one side had hijacked the whole enterprise of patriotism. So that's what I've called it. Look for it on substack, Spotify, doing Apple Podcasts and YouTube as well.

[Joy Reid]

Check out Put Up F10. Jason, can you imagine what would have happened at either of our old jobs if a Democrat had had a American flag dragging on the ground? Like I just picturing Joe Biden letting an American flag drag on the ground and the apoplexy that would have happened on Fox and now our network covered it. Yeah, it's different out here. We can actually say that it is.

[Terry Moran]

We can.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you. Terry Moran. A round of applause. Jason for Terry. Thank you very much. From the new media. Thank you very much. Well, that is, that is it for the show tonight. Before we get to the very close we are really running a little bit over but we wanted to bless you all. By the way, Jason, show F11. Somebody said Roy Cohn in the chat. I want to let you all know. See there he is, Trump with Roy Cone. Whoever said Roy Cohn in the chat. You're very smart. Let's get to our moment of joy. And this is a reprise of one of Our absolute favorite. Favorite TikTok and Instagram accounts. Because she be telling us. Jason, what does she call herself? She said that she is. Okay, let's play our favorite heiferologist. This is our moment of joy. Go.

[Donald Trump]

Since opening up the world to the nature of a heifer, I done got so many questions regarding Ms. Maddie J. How did you know so much about heifers and the work of a heifer and just health phonomics in general? Well, babies, I want you to know the game. No game. I know the heifer game quite well because I was once deeply involved in the field of heiferocity.

[Jolanda Jones]

Right.

[Donald Trump]

Even say I'm a reformed or retired helper.

[Joy Reid]

Oh yeah.

[Donald Trump]

Back in the day, man. James, something else. Something to tell the preacher. I ain't proud of it, but it's a part of my history. But the word of Lord thy God says over there in Titus 2 and 3 said older women encourage the younger women about life and the ways of a modest woman. Tells us how to teach the women to keep their house, tend to their husband and children and see after their own business. That's right. Mind your own business. And Maddie J's commitment to that. See, I don't feel those elders and women's is doing enough teachings about these kind of things. Special things we did when we was younger. And so that's why we got to get John bulls and embrace them, brace them until May got to take the.

[Jolanda Jones]

Testes that we took. We didn't already took them.

[Donald Trump]

We took it forward. You did start with them while they young when they already showing pre heifer red tendencies. If you love these children, call them out.

[Joy Reid]

Call them out.

[Jolanda Jones]

Come here.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Donald Trump]

Sit yourself down right here and manage your feet and be blessed. Learn something.

[Jolanda Jones]

They ain't gonna like it at first.

[Donald Trump]

Tell you that right now. But they'll come around once you wins. They trust and things like that. I'm as appealing to the elderly women's today. Y' all start teaching these women.

[Joy Reid]

Teach them.

[Jolanda Jones]

We gotta learn.

[Joy Reid]

Yes.

[Donald Trump]

God knows we gotta learn.

[Jolanda Jones]

I swear for little children we gotta.

[Joy Reid]

Ms. Maddie J is our moment of joy. I. I am in semi stock mode. We've got to Please let us know in the chat if you want us to invite Ms. Maddie J on the program. We need Ms. Maddie J. We might need to do like a regular like advice session with Ms. Maddie J to teach these young women to stay away from heiferation. She is hilarious. Ms. Maddie J is our moment of joy. Thank you all for watching. Please be sure to hit like and subscribe, hit that share button. Make sure everybody can get in on the independent media goodness. The algorithm loves it when you hit like and subscribe, so please do so. We've got lots more coming up on the, on the, on the program this week. It's Wednesday, so Friday is going to be a good one. We have a great show. We're lining up and we will, we'll bring that to you on Friday. But for now, we're going to wish you all a good night. If you all do purchase things from our Wonderful [e-mail] joyread.com including Mike Fanon's book, which we have added to the store. Make sure that you hashtag readers or hashtag wearing. Joy, if you buy an outfit of clothes, this is my favorite little sweatshirt I wear all the time. We appreciate all of your support. We love you and we'll see you on the next. Oh, we got a person who just bought their hoodie. Thank you very much. Just bought my hoodie. Heart.

[Jennifer Welch]

Heart, Heart.

[Joy Reid]

What does that say? What is it? Let me see them. Let me read the name. Let me see. America, America, America. 4000, 229. 4229. America. Thank you very much. I'm glad that you got your hoodie. Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you all so much. We love you all. Thank you for your support. Thanks for the proud Latino merch. Just purchased my hoodie. Yes. I want to let you guys know we have a team tjrs, and we've got them for proud Latinos, Latinas, LGBTQ folks, people who are proud to be black. And yes, we've got a version for our spicy white. If you're spicy white. We've got some merch for you as well. We got aapi merch. We've got blurred merch if you're a nerd. We got them all. We try to think of all the categories of people that are in team tjrs. We got them all there. So feel free to pick up something. And yes, avoid the heifer nation. Don't be a heifer. See you on the next the Joy Reed Show. We love you, Maddie J. Good night. Okay. It.