Reporter/Interviewer (5:59)

Is it the White House's position that furloughed workers should be paid for their back pay?

Jason Johnson (6:06)

I would say it depends on who we're talking about. I can tell you this, the Democrats have put a lot of people in great risk and jeopardy, but it really depends on who you're talking about. But for the most part, we're going to take care of our people. There are some people that really don't deserve to be taken care of. And we'll take care of them in a different way. Okay, thank you. We'll take care of them in a different way. What the hell does that mean? By the way, big ups to Kenneth Reid, who says he's our most loyal reader. He spells his name R E E D. But we forgive you for that. We think your read is just as good. Donald Trump saying himself out of his own tiny little lips that we'll take care of them in a different way. Not everyone that Democrats hired that he claims only Democrats have hired federal workers, they don't deserve any money and he's not gonna pay them. So there you go. And Republicans have been a little wincy about that. Right. And they do control the whole federal government, but they're still somehow trying to pass the shutdown off as Democrats doing it, saying that the Democrats are the ones holding up reopening the government because they want to give free health care to undocumented immigrants. And they use the I word, which I say is just the N word for brown people. But even the Rupert Murdoch owned Wall Street Journal says, nope, that's not true. Nope, this is the Wall Street Journal's reporting. Republicans have amplified Republican talking points that Democrats want to give health care to people in the country illegally. Unauthorized immigrants aren't eligible for ACA benefits and they aren't allowed to enroll in Medicaid under federal law. But some federal dollars do go toward emergency Medicaid coverage for migrants without legal status. And that is exactly what I told you all in the last show when we talked about this. If you are undocumented, you cannot sign up for Obamacare. You're just legally not allowed to do it. And how would you do it? You'd have to expose yourself. But if you get hit by a bus and you go to the er, they're going to treat you because there's a thing called emtala. There's a law that says that you have to treat anyone who comes in bleeding and dying. You have to treat them. It's just that they're not going to have to pay a bill because they're not allowed to get Obamacare. If you actually let undocumented immigrants buy Obamacare, then they would have to pay their own bill if they got hit by a bus. But because people are so freaked out about undocumented people that they don't want them to get anything, they can't buy the health care that would let them pay their own way. So you're going to treat them at your expense. That's the only way they're going to get health care is if they get hurt and they go to the hospital. They're going to get treated at your expense because Republicans won't let them buy Obamacare. And see how that works. And Republicans are getting exposed on this stuff over and over again. Because here's the truth and this is the facts that you need to understand. There are two reasons why House Speaker Mike Johnson pushed through this so called clean cr, which means they left unchanged the House's preference previous bill that does allow those federal premium supports for Obamacare health care policies to expire. They expire December 31, which will drive up health care costs not just for people on Obamacare, but for all of us. So they want to let Obamacare get worse and get more expensive because they want to end Obamacare. That's reason number one. Reason two that he won't reconvene the House to even negotiate on this issue is that if he reconvened the House, he would have to swear in Adelita, who would then become the 218th vote to discharge a bill to the floor, meaning let the bill come to the floor to release the Epstein files heroes. Mike Johnson. I have to play this for you. This is Mike Johnson getting called out in person to his face by the two Arizona senators, Reuben Gallego and Mark Kelly. This is the two of them calling him out. I'm not going to play all of it, but here's a little bit of it. This just keeps on moving. Yeah, it's not great.

Joy Reid (9:37)

If you want representation, there's 750. Wait, let me address. Let me address the. Answer the question. We're happy that she got elected. She's filling her father's seat. That's fantastic. We have a long tradition here and a process of how we administer the oath to a member. You know, he served here for a while. We're going to do that as soon as we get back to work. But we need the lights turned back on. So we encourage both of you to go open to government. Didn't we do that? Republican swore. The person in the exception is there were two Floridians who were elected in a special election. This happened.

Jason Johnson (10:11)

That's when they needed the votes.

Joy Reid (10:13)

They were here on a day. They had their families here. They had a scheduled day for the oath of office. And the House was called out of session that day. They had all their family and friends here. So we went ahead and went through the process. Let me answer the question if you can ask it. And so that was the exception we did because the family was here. Ms. Grahava, recollect. Grahava has not yet had a scheduled date because she was elected after the House was out of session. So I'm anxious to administer the oath.

Jason Johnson (10:43)

How much?

Joy Reid (10:44)

Totally absurd.

Jason Johnson (10:45)

You guys are experts. Moving along.

Joy Reid (10:48)

There's nothing to do with Epstein. The House Oversight Committee. The House Oversight Committee is working on the Epstein files right now, releasing 34.

Jason Johnson (10:55)

000 pages and more. Let me finish.

Joy Reid (10:59)

The House overseas.

Jason Johnson (11:00)

Come up excuses. This is an excuse.

Joy Reid (11:01)

So she doesn't.

Jason Johnson (11:02)

That's great. That's correct.

Joy Reid (11:03)

Absurd.

Jason Johnson (11:04)

This is the longest. No, not absurd.

Joy Reid (11:05)

Answer the question.

Jason Johnson (11:07)

Yes, we do. We want you to answer the question.

Joy Reid (11:10)

You see, this is a publicity stunt. Let me tell you what's happening. The House Oversight Committee is working on Release of the Epstein files. No, they're not the biggest bulldog.

Jason Johnson (11:18)

The Democrats are.

Joy Reid (11:19)

And the Republican and Democrat side who are working on that aggressively.

Jason Johnson (11:22)

Okay, we can stop there. We can stop there. Mike Johnson. No, no, you, the House could convene right now. You're standing literally in the House. You could easily just reconvene. Let that woman get Ellie to Grahava, let her swear in and just do your, do your job now and wait. I have to play this for you and I don't like having to play her so often. But here is Marjorie Taylor Greene, bleach blonde, bad built butchbody herself, going all off script again. Like she's gone all off script when it comes to the Epstein files and now she's off script. On this talking point that Mike Johnson wants you to believe here is. And to allow Democrats to have some sort of moral high ground on this issue because they're only one, the only ones talking about it, I think is a major failure from the Republican Party. And I'm not going to stand there and just keep talking the talking points when my own adult children can hardly afford health insurance premiums, when everyone in my district. It's the number one issue that I hear about day in and day out. Not just people on the aca, but people that have private insurance as well. And I think it's something that we have to talk about. And I don't see why the government needs to be shut down. I really don't. I believe that if Republicans learn to govern and will power, they can use the nuclear option in the Senate, they can open up the government, we can get back to work for the American people and Republicans can solve this problem. That is a very big problem that we can't ignore. Thank you. Thank you. I, I hate having to agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene A C y R throwing 499 in the till and reminding us, thank you very much for the 499. We appreciate you. But also reminding us, Mike Johnson keeps saying, why won't you guys just come in and re vote to reopen the government? Dude, you don't need Democrats to do that. You have 219 votes. You need 218 votes to do anything in the House of representatives. There are 435 members in the United States House. That's how the House is built. They're 100 senators, right? There are five delegates. There's, you know, there's the person who's a representative in D.C. who's not like a full member of Congress. They have the Votes. Republicans by themselves have the votes. Why don't they just vote 3 over the government? Why? Because they can't agree amongst themselves on how much they want to hurt Obamacare. Let me now let you watch this CNN piece because this is what they want. Let me let you listen to cnn. Not me listen. But a CNN expert explained how much more you're going to pay for healthcare because of them. Here it is. Direction Act. Under what conditions or terms would you. Well, I do it if it was necessary. So far it hasn't been necessary. Oh, wait, that's not it. We're going to stop there. We're going to stop there. Under what conditions are. Oh, oh, wait a minute. That's not a 12. Okay, we're going to go back, let's see if that is a 12 and make sure. I want to make sure a 12 is the right thing.

Joy Reid (14:01)

That's what I have.

Jason Johnson (14:01)

Does he have for a 12? A 12. Yeah. A 12 is a different thing. A 12 was actually a CNN by that was actually talking about what health care costs will cost. We're going to leave that alone and just bring in our guests. Congresswoman Joyce Beatty is here. She's not here, right? Oh, okay. We're going to wait for her to come in. Yeah, she's not here. Okay, I hope. I wish we could find a 12 because a 12 on my side. Is CNN talking about health care costs. You sure that's what you have for a 12?

Joy Reid (14:27)

Oh, I have the MSNBC.

Jason Johnson (14:31)

A 12, yeah. Okay. Well, that's not it. Well, I will just explain to you what was in the health care bill. I'm just going to actually play it for myself. Here it is. Health care costs that would go up because of the expo expiration, I should say, of those.

Joy Reid (14:48)

Let me play that. I just downloaded it. Let me play it again.

Jason Johnson (14:50)

Oh, okay, there it is. Oh, that.

Joy Reid (14:53)

Imagine an older couple out there who's making $85,000 a year. That's not a huge. That's not billionaires or anything like that, but that's a higher earner in this case. Here's their current premium. $7,225 per year. That's 8.5% of their income. That's sort of the top end under the current. Under the change, if it expires, that will jump to 25,000 per year. That's almost a 30% increase.

Jason Johnson (15:20)

That is.

Joy Reid (15:21)

That's almost 30% of their income. Not an income. 30% of their income for the year. That's a tough thing if you're making $85,000 a year.

Jason Johnson (15:31)

Now, again, $85,000 a year is not a whole hell of a lot of money, especially if you live in a place like New York or Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles. If you live in an expensive place, $85,000 a year is pretty average. You know, it's sort of what America's. I think the median income is what, like 60, $70,000 a year. So if you're making that kind of money, your health care costs are about to triple. This is not a nothing issue. Mike Johnson keeps saying, we're just trying to have a clean cr. We just want to pass a bill that doesn't change anything. No, what you don't want to change, Mike Johnson, is the bill that Republicans alone pushed through earlier this year, which allows the premium support that the federal government provides. People who get Obamacare, they actually sort of write you a check. They help to reduce the cost of your premiums using federal assistance to Obamacare. If you have Medicaid plus, which is Obamacare, those premium supports are set to expire statutorily, meaning the law that allows them to exist, it's done at the end of this year, in November. Next month is when you, where you're, when you're supposed to re enroll if you have, remember, like if you have a healthcare plan at work, right, there's a re enrollment period and you have to sign up again. That period actually begins in November. And then on December 31st, your premium supports, they go away, they expire. And there are estimates that some people's bills could go up three times. They could triple. They could triple for somebody that has a normal health care plan, the kind of health care plan a lot of, a lot of us have, a lot of people have. So you're now talking about making health care literally unaffordable for the American people because Republicans want Obamacare to be terrible. Because if Obamacare is terrible, if Obamacare is unaffordable, they can say, see, Obamacare is no good. We're going to replace it with something better. And the better that they want to replace it with is what we had before Obamacare, which is where health care companies can charge you whatever they want, can do whatever they want to you. And it's the free market. They call it the free market, meaning they're free to gouge you. I do believe we now have the congresswoman here. Let's bring our congresswoman in, Congresswoman Joyce Beatty of the great state of Ohio. And I believe you represent District 3 in the Great state of Ohio.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (17:44)

That is correct.

Jason Johnson (17:45)

Joy, I got a nomad, better known District is what we try to say over here at the Joy Reach Hill. Thank you so much. Congresswoman, where do we stand as regards the shutdown on the House side?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (17:56)

Well, where we stand here is, as you can see, I'm in my office. I'm in D.C. we're here working. We're fighting for the American people. Because what we're saying is, I've heard you say, and you've heard me say, no health care, no vote. We are holding strong. We are united because we know what's at stake. We know the millions and millions of people, people who will lose their health care. We know right now that, and I heard you say they're gouging everything and healthcare is going up. We're trying to lower the cost. We're trying to make sure that we fight against these cuts because it'll make a difference. I mean, if I look just in Ohio or in my congressional district alone, the hundreds of thousands of people in my state that will be out of health care, we know that. Look, this is a historic double header. They want to cut Medicaid. They want to make sure that they raise the cost to make premiums unaffordable. People's costs can go up as high as 75%. And we already know for people who look like me and you, we're already behind the eight.

Jason Johnson (19:05)

That's right.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (19:05)

And they're trying to make this, and this is what I'm so proud of. House Democrats, we had a hearing today. We all day long we've been doing press, we've been in hearings. Our caucus is here fighting under the leadership of Hakeem Jeffries. But, but here's the thing. I want the American people to know. Republicans lie. It's just that simple. They're lying about what they're trying to do. We know that November 1st, we start all over again with signing up for.

Jason Johnson (19:35)

Our, our health care.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (19:37)

And we know that this big, ugly law that they created is not good for us. And when I say us, we're hit because of the disparities. We're hit much harder than many of our counterparts and colleagues. But here's the thing. It affects everybody. There's no such thing as a Medicaid nurse or a Medicaid doctor. So when they lay off these nurses and anybody, I don't care what your income or zip code is, when you go to that hospital and it's closed, if it's in rural America or some of the inner city health clinics, it's going to affect everyone. And that's the message that Democrats are sending out because there's consequences of this. And it's called an election.

Jason Johnson (20:20)

Yeah.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (20:21)

You know, and people aren't talking about it, but we can make these changes. So many people are saying to us, we didn't think it was going to be this bad. Well, it is this bad.

Jason Johnson (20:30)

Yeah.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (20:30)

And it lies in the hands of Republicans and Donald Trump.

Jason Johnson (20:34)

And by the way, it's so bad. Marjorie Taylor Greene agrees with you. I mean, I've never gotten to the point within itself. And she literally said, she went off script and said, look, even her grown children can't afford healthcare. Neither can mine.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (20:45)

I mean, that's what this is about.

Jason Johnson (20:47)

And she's in a more rural district. Exactly.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (20:50)

Personally, she doesn't have money in her pocketbooks to pay hospital costs and medical. And so many Republicans are announcing when it hits home, they're hearing and seeing what we've been saying all alone affects everybody. Everybody about Democrat or Republican.

Jason Johnson (21:09)

That's right.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (21:10)

Getting the services. But it's Republicans who are against it.

Jason Johnson (21:13)

I want to go through a couple of these. You know, we're going to hold on to CBS News while it's still normal, before Bari Weiss turns it into a propaganda mill for Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu. But for the moment, we can still trust a little bit of what comes out of CBS News. They have a poll with the New York Times. Let me go through a couple of the screens. They've asked people who do they feel is to blame for the shut, for the, for the shutdowns. We're going to go through these. Jason, these are going to start with a 13. Jason, for you, they first ask the question who is to blame? Right. So they're sort of frontline. Question is who do you blame the most for the shutdown at the moment? And so that next slide, when you go to that next slide, it is Trump and Republicans who 39% of people say should be blamed. 30% blame Democrats in Congress. I'm not sure why 31% blame people equally. I feel like people kind of at a certain point get so confused by the information, they don't know who to blame. Right. Then we go to the next piece. Among Democrats, just asking Democrats are congressional Democrats positions, which is no health care, no vote. Is that worth it? Is it worth it to say no health care, no vote. Nearly half say, yes, it is worth it. It's worth a shutdown to say we need to get those health care premiums, not worth the shutdown is only 24% of the population. That's actually pretty good for Democrats. We're concerned about the Democrat, about the shutdown effect on the economy. Half of voters, very concerned. I don't know about the 20% who are not concerned. They probably polled Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, and maybe they're the ones, the top billionaires. The billionaires are not concerned. And then I'll just do one more here and how the government shutdown is being handled. And again, you know, these are just polls. They don't mean everything. They don't. They're not everything. But it's interesting just to get a snapshot of where how people feel. Only 32% of people approve of the way Donald Trump is handling the shutdown. And with Democrats and Republicans, it's kind of even for the approval. But there are more Democrats who. Well, the disapproval rate among Democrats is like even higher. But it's just. What do you make of the way the public is handling and reading this shutdown? Are they, are they missing something?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (23:19)

Well, I think it's confusing to the everyday person. You and I live it. I think they're consumed with the lies that Republicans are putting out there. And then I think not knowing what we were doing. And that's why I'm so proud of the message that we're on. We heard it loud and clear from you and other people. What's our message? And I think the results that you got speaks to we're on target with our message. People see us fighting for them. They see us on an issue that they can relate to that's hitting them personally and in their pockets. So we're on the right vote. We're fighting. We're saying no health care, no vote. We've held strong. We're here doing our job. We're letting people know what happens them and people can feel this. Before, when you had long sophisticated talking about the legislation, the bill numbers, and it was too long. Now it's simple and I give Hakeem Jeffries credit for that. He heard everybody beating down on him. Don't let what happened in March happen. Now, what you're going to stand for. Well, now I'm saying stand with us because we're fighting our behinds off for the American people and for the number one thing that people can understand and relate to because it affects the economy. People are losing their jobs in this shutdown. And if they close down rural hospitals, health clinics in the urban cities, those people don't have jobs. And that affects the economy. And people should not have to choose between health care and their rent or food on the table. And so we're fighting for that. And I think people understand that, Joy.

Jason Johnson (25:03)

I think people are living it. And I would argue personally that beating up on Hakeem Jeffries, or at least holding him to account, actually has been helpful, because what we don't want is him to be like Chuck Schumer and feel like maybe I'll cut a deal on the side and get the government reopened simply for the sake of reopening the government. And I would argue that the pressure people are putting is sort of the way it's supposed to work. No, I mean, like, we're not like his comms people. We're here to hold him accountable. Right. So do you think that the leadership, not just Hakeem Jeffries, but the whole leadership. There it is. No health care, no vote. You all have been succinct. You guys have been direct. What is. Is your red line going to remain where it is, or is there a possibility that your red line starts to include things like no ice in our cities? Like, where is your red line?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (25:47)

As Democrats, I think right now we're starting with lowering the cost is strictly on health care. Lowering the cost, not having the cuts, meeting the deadline so people can have health care care so they're not feeling the pain. But I also agree with you on holding the leadership accountable, holding each one of us accountable. And I can tell you, we hear you, and that is the pressure we need. But we also need people to make sure you stand with us, to let people in the districts, in the community know that we're not divided, that we're not fighting. We have to be on the same page about what we're holding accountable. It's just like we hold media accountable.

Jason Johnson (26:30)

That's right.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (26:31)

To make sure that there is fairness. This. To make sure that we are able to come on like you've been doing, bringing us on so people can hear us. And so.

Jason Johnson (26:42)

But.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (26:42)

But let me just say this, because we are two separate branches and houses. We have the Senate over there. And so we need to keep pushing them and. And applauding them that for six votes they've held. I was real nervous.

Jason Johnson (26:56)

Yeah.

Reporter/Interviewer (26:56)

About that.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (26:58)

Let me be honest. But I am proud of my colleagues there, and especially Black Caucus members have been extremely strong. And so the House, we have gone on record with, we are united, and we understand what's at stake. Because if we stay united, if we get this victory, and. And I don't know what the total victory will be, but it is not to fold and not get stuck something.

Jason Johnson (27:29)

That's right. That's Amen.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (27:31)

Victory has to be getting something that we're fighting for because that comes back to the polls at election that we held strong. We fight for the American people, and it made a difference.

Jason Johnson (27:42)

Yeah, yeah. Make the goals clear, make the win clear, and make it doable. And so I think what you're doing makes sense because you're saying, here's a clear goal. If you meet that goal, then you should be applauded. And I think that's the way we have to be as constituents and as voters is that we hold our administrative, we hold our representatives to account. This is the goal we want you to do. And when you meet that finish line, we don't then move the. We don't then move the goalpost again and say, well, now we want you to do this, too. We have made it very clear. I think the American people have made it very clear. These, the tripling of our health care premiums is unacceptable. Democrats holding that line. Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, you're great. Thank you so much. We appreciate you being here.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (28:18)

Thank you, Joy.

Jason Johnson (28:19)

Thank you very much. Well, you heard it all. We want a clear goal. And I think this is important just for us as voters to think about. Right. Like, you know, we like to, we like to take a, take a swat, a swat at Hakeem Jeffries from time to time on some issues. I don't agree with him on Israel and other things like that. But what we have to do is we have to have measurable goals. And then you have to allow your members of Congress to meet those goals. And if they meet those goals, you need to high five them, because if you're only beating up on them, you're not going to get anywhere because they're not going to see a positive incentive to do what you say. And I wanted to ask her the question about ice, because there is some conversation about whether they should add that. Here's the challenge. Let them meet goal one first. And I agree. I actually think the line should have been no ICE in our cities. But what we have right now from the Democratic Party is no health care, no vote. You are not going to let those premiums go up. Weirdly enough, it actually unites them with even Marjorie Taylor Greene. Republicans cannot hold the line on this. They cannot unite. They cannot remain together speaking. Part B is if you can get a coalition together, you could also get the Epstein files as a bonus. All right, so we're going to move on. Now, do we have our next guest or Jason's going to let me know when our next guest is on the table. Let's bring him in. I want to bring in Democratic strategist Brad Woodhouse. He was a senior strategist for the Obama campaign and communications director for the Democratic National Committee. He now serves as president for the progressive activist group Protect Our Care. It has been a long time, Brad.

Joy Reid (29:47)

Minute, Joy, but so good to see you. It is hot minute.

Jason Johnson (29:51)

A hot minute since like AM Joy Day. So it's great to see you again, my friend. Let's go through this right now. I want to show you a poll. You know, like I said, we're going to use CBS News polls, while CBS is still somewhat functionally normal, before Bari Weiss turns it into a propaganda outlet for Donald Trump. And maybe, I don't know, maybe Donald Trump Jr. Will become the new editorial director over there when she's done with it. This is the most important issues facing the country, per the CBS New York Times YouGov poll. Economy and jobs, number one, which is not unexpected. Inflation, 21%. Health care is right up there at 15% more than immigration. People care not as much about crime and government spending and all the stuff Republicans claim they care about. They care about their money. They care about not being able to afford stuff, and they care about health care. How are Democrats doing in your view, as far as their no health care, no vote messaging?

Joy Reid (30:43)

Well, I'll tell you a secret, and maybe I shouldn't mention it here on the air, but Joy, we're winning. We're winning. Democrats are winning this fight. I mean, look no further than the division and the chaos in the Republican message. And you have, oh, my God, of all people, Marjorie Taylor Greene, come on. Consistently, consistently saying the right things about the tax credits. And actually, you know, one of the things we always talk about in healthcare is what are real people saying? What are patients saying? What are families saying? She's talking about her kids.

Jason Johnson (31:14)

Yes.

Joy Reid (31:14)

Being impacted by, by these, by these premium increases. Donald Trump has undercut the Republican position on the hill by 1, 1 minute saying he's willing to negotiate. Next minute say, saying he's not willing to negotiate. So they're all over the map. And the beauty here is, is that Democrats are of accord. I mean, Democrats are on the same page on this. And look, look, Joy, I do health care. I've been doing protect our care for eight years now. But I come out of politics like if there was a better, more unifying issue to Fight over this, over the issue of the shutdown. I would say do that. But health care, go back to 2017, how united we are to stop repeal. 2018, we ran on it to win the House back. It was key in 2020, particularly our reaction and campaigning against Trump's handling of COVID So health care has consistently unified the Democrats, divided the Republicans. And I was hearing a pollster the other day talk about health care and said it's the holy trinity of issues for Democrats because Democrats have a significant advantage over Republicans. The issue is persuasive. In other words, it moves people and people care about it. People care, so the American people care about it. It's a top two or three issue, as you showed.

Jason Johnson (32:39)

And by the way, it used to be the Republicans top issue. It is the way that they took power from the Democratic Party when Obama was president. In 2014, they routed and in 2010, they routed Democrats on the issue of health care because it's personal. And when people feared that they were going to lose their doctor or they weren't going to be able to do what they wanted and make decisions over their own health care because they were, they paid Obamacare as some sort of, you know, you know, communist monstrosity. It actually worked for them. But now the weird thing about it, Brad, it, since you and I have known each other, the, the, the worm has turned in terms of people now realizing how much they love Obamacare because they really like having health care, which they didn't have before. Some people didn't have any access. Let me go through a couple of these numbers. This is a 19 for Jason. This is the most on Trump's handling of these issues. On immigration, Trump is underwater. On the economy, way underwater, 6040. On his handling of inflation, way underwater. Because people are realizing whatever it is he promised, it ain't coming through. Are the positions worthwhile when it comes to the positions that each of the parties are taking? When it comes to a government shutdown, people are very dubious about Everybody's positions. Only 28% say Democrats positions are worth it. Only 23% say Republicans positions are worth it. Higher numbers say the other way. But you've got a big group that are not sure going to the next thing. How Democrats are respond, how they're described, still not looking great. They're still described as weak by the majority of people. The biggest chunk of people, only 27% say they're strong. Only 26% effective. But let's go to the next block. How Republicans are described, extreme, extreme, 6 in 10Americans, and this is chart A22 say that what Republicans are. They're extreme. They're extreme. The last one I will do is how Donald Trump is described in this CBS YouGov poll. I said New York Times, I meant YouGov. Donald Trump is described, he used to be described as tough. That's gone down. Energetic. That's gone way down. Because these cankles probably make people feel he's not so energetic. He looks, he slides down those ramps like he can't walk. Focused. Yeah. People like, yeah, no, he's underwater there. Effective. Yeah. People used to think he was effective. They're like, nope, 47% competent. I mean, I don't know if they meant corpus mentis competent. I don't know if they meant like non senile competent or just good at his job. Either way, it ain't good. So Trump is in a bad place. Does that mean anything when Donald Trump is an authoritarian because he ain't going nowhere. But him being unpopular, does it matter?

Joy Reid (35:17)

Well, yes, it totally matters. And it weighs on Republicans that are going to be running in, in 20, in 2026. I mean, the lower Trump's approval rating, the more that will weigh on them, the more of an opening it'll give Democrats to expand the map. And you remember 2022 in the, he was not president any longer, but it was the aftermath of the January 6th insurrection of 2021, and he went out and he campaigned for all these election deniers. The American people didn't like it. His approval rating, his, his favorability rating plummeted. And, you know, we did a lot better than expected. They're supposed to have a red wave and we starched it because, mostly because Trump was extremely unpopular. I happen to think Joe Biden ran a great midterm race on issues of, of democracy. So he met Trump's election denialism with promoting democracy. And we won. But the big factor there was that Trump stunk it up for Republican incumbents because his approval rating was so low in the aftermath of January 6th. So this is a very important moment. I think what you said about Democrats is sobering. I mean, we have a long way to go, but the first thing we needed to do, and we didn't do it in March for a variety of reasons. But the first thing we do is.

Jason Johnson (36:34)

We need to put up a fight.

Joy Reid (36:35)

We got to fight. We got to fight about, we got to fight about something. And the thing is, you know, if we don't fight about something that unifies us, Democrats are going to fight books themselves. And so we got to start here. We got to start by fight. And like I said, if it wasn't health care, I'd love for it to be something else. I mean, I think we could really make hay about mass deportation. He's underwater on immigration. He was always above water.

Jason Johnson (36:56)

Immigration.

Joy Reid (36:57)

We can make hay about tariffs. He's underwater on tariffs, and he was. And he's underwater on the economy, and he's always been above water on that. He's underwater on all the big issues. But healthcare unifies Democrats more than anything. So this is the right fight for this time. I can't hear joy.

Jason Johnson (37:45)

Testing, testing, testing. Okay, here we go. Yes. Let me now bring in. Thank you to Brad Woodhouse. I don't know what happened. A little bit of a weird Mike, you know, gremlin. But we are back. Let me thank Brad Woodhouse. I want to bring in Everett Kelly, national president of the American Federation of Government Employees. It is the largest union representing federal and D.C. government employees. He's joined by Brent Barron, the AFGE National Council. Somebody's mic is crunching a federal labor federation's president and count. And President of Council 73, representing workers in the Department of Labor as well as the Honda Palmer. She is the AFGE Local 333 president representing TSA workers. We need this at Philadelphia International Airport. And she's worked at the TSA for more than 20 years, since October 1st has been working without pay. She's a mother 5. Thank you all for being here. How is that going? Because the reality is you all essential workers at the tsa, you're keeping us safe at the airport. Hey.

Joy Reid (38:46)

Could some everybody turn their audio down?

Jason Johnson (38:48)

Yeah. Everybody turn your audio down. Yeah. Or throw a headphone on because we are having a little bit of trouble with you guys audio. We're gonna wait and let see if she can pull her. There we go. Can you hear me, Lashonda?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (39:02)

Yes, I can hear you a little.

Jason Johnson (39:05)

Bit about what it's like to work without pay since October 1st and raise five kids.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (39:10)

It's hard. It's very stressful. Of course, this isn't my first time. However, it doesn't negate that. It's very stressful. It's a lot. And being a president now opposed to in 2018. I was executive vice president when we were shut down for 35 days.

Jason Johnson (39:30)

The audio is super low. I can hardly hear you. I'm going to let you see if we can get you to turn up the gain. Basically, if you go into your settings, you can actually make the output higher on your laptop. Okay. There we go. Start again, if you could. Lashonda.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (39:44)

It's extremely stressful. Now that I'm the president and not the executive vice president, as I was in our last shutdown, which was 35 days, it is a lot more dependent on me. It's extremely hard trying to get people to understand and be compassionate and understanding that we have officers who wasn't able to pay their rent because they wanted to hold on to their money. I have officers calling me who didn't pay their car notes, their insurance, things of that nature, because we don't know how long this shutdown is going to go on. Me personally, as you say, I have five kids and I have two grandkids. So it's extremely hard. It's very hard and stressful. And what happens in the position they are in.

Jason Johnson (40:34)

And when you hear the Axios reporting that Donald Trump is saying maybe they won't ever pay you all your back pay, what does that do to you and to the other people who are whose job literally it is to keep us safe in the air?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (40:46)

It's hard because we're a government agency. However, we're still paycheck to paycheck. It sounds horrible, unbelievable, but it's the truth. And I was just telling someone yesterday that people say, you know, oh, they want to get their back pay. However, that back pay isn't even going to get us caught up because all those paychecks on one paycheck takes us to a higher tax bracket. Now what happens is we also have late fees. That furlough letter that we got, our collectors aren't taking our bill collectors aren't taking that. I was turned down at the bank. I called one of my. My credit card companies. They was like, oh, yeah, sorry, Lashonda, call us back. So it doesn't help. So we're in the position now where we're put into a position to have fees and late fees and be actually still stressed.

Jason Johnson (41:39)

Yeah. Let me bring you in, Brent Barron, because you were working representing folks at the Department of Labor. What happens to your fellow employees? Employees, are they considered essential employees? Do they still have to come to work? Are they getting checks?

Brent Barron (41:55)

Well, there's actually three statuses of employees. There are exempt employees who receive their funding for their operations through another funding mechanism. They're working like normal, but there are very few of them in the department. Then there's a group of employees at the department. They're accepted employees, and they're in lashawna's position. They're Working without the knowledge of, or with the knowledge of not knowing when that next paycheck is going to come. And then there's the 75% of the department that has been put into a furlough status of non accepted, which means they're not working and they have no idea when they're going to go back to work. Now let's go back. Let me just be real quick. Let's go back to 2019. The lapse in 2019 lasted 35 days under Donald Trump.

Jason Johnson (42:57)

Again, that was his previous under Donald Trump.

Brent Barron (43:00)

And we had the same situation then where we had accepted employees, non accepted employees. But the difference was employees like Lashonda were working for that 35 day period with nothing. They were incurring expenses. They were incurring, you know, their costs of going to work, of trying to run a household. You know, everything that everybody out there goes through. Right. Paying for groceries, putting gas in your car, paying the rent, paying your mortgage, you know, getting to and from work, going out, all that.

Joy Reid (43:33)

Right.

Brent Barron (43:34)

For 35 days they had nothing coming in. The furloughed employees, on the other hand, they could at least go out and file for unemployment with the understanding if they got paid back, they would owe that unemployment money back. So I was in that status five years ago, six years ago today, this week, I'm furloughed for the first time in my 36 year career. Okay. I'm with all the other employees out here furloughed right now, waiting to be called back into work, waiting for them to, to have an appropriation and call us back to work.

Jason Johnson (44:14)

Yeah.

Brent Barron (44:15)

And they changed the law in 19 to guarantee that furloughed employees would get paid because of the duration of that last one.

Joy Reid (44:23)

Right.

Jason Johnson (44:24)

And Trump signed that law.

Brent Barron (44:26)

Yes, and the President signed that law in 2019. So then yesterday they release through OMB, you know, they leaked it. They're not crying about this leak, but they released a memo yesterday saying, well, they got a different interpretation of that law, the 2019 law. And they're not, they're, they're saying they're not going to pay the furlough employees at the same time. Last week he was talking about gutting agencies, cutting agency budgets, riffing employees in the middle of this, this lapse in appropriation, which is totally against the Anti Deficiency Act. You can't do it.

Jason Johnson (45:05)

And riffing, by the way, means firing.

Brent Barron (45:08)

Yes. Riffing means giving someone a notice saying you got so many days and after that, so many days, you are no longer going to be working for your agency. So this administration is operating without a net right now.

Jason Johnson (45:25)

Yeah.

Brent Barron (45:26)

And they're, they're total disregard for any of the existing statutes that are out there.

Jason Johnson (45:31)

Everett Kelly, I'm gonna give you the last word on this because this should be the subject of a lawsuit. If Donald Trump and Russ Vogt, who wrote Project 25, who was one of the main writers of Project 2025, if they refuse to pay furloughed employees, are y' all gonna sue?

Joy Reid (45:48)

George, first of all, thank you for having me.

Jason Johnson (45:50)

Of course.

Joy Reid (45:50)

Thank you for inviting lashonda and Brent. We definitely would sue.

Jason Johnson (45:56)

Okay.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (45:56)

Okay.

Joy Reid (45:57)

Because we know that what they're doing is illegal. I've been a member of AFGE and.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (46:03)

In this movement since 1981. I've never seen anything such as what we're seeing today. I've not seen anything like it.

Joy Reid (46:12)

To see these employees traumatized and call names and I mean, it's inhumane and it's un American. So certainly we will be suing in that event.

Jason Johnson (46:24)

Well, Roosevelt did say when he gave a speech back before he was in the government, when he was giving a speech for the right wing organization, that he's the head of, that he wanted these employees, federal employees, to feel trauma. Thank you all for being here. You guys stayed overtime. I'm going to give you the last word here. Everett Kelly, what should federal employees do if they are in this situation? Are there rainy day funds available? Is there assistance available? Where should people be be going for help if there's nothing coming in, as you said, and as these two fine people who are on with you are dealing with right now? Where can they go for help?

Joy Reid (46:56)

Well, thank you. Well, they can go to our website.

Jason Johnson (46:58)

Okay.

Joy Reid (46:59)

Because on our website, we do have resources available. We do have opportunities for them to.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (47:06)

Apply for grants and those type of things.

Joy Reid (47:09)

We don't handle it. We fund it through another agency. And they can find that on our website. Well, I'm also talking with a lot of the Democrat senators, you know, that are talking with various agencies and financial institutions, you know, to help our members, you know, and we're going to be providing all that information as well. So we are trying to help our members, you know, and I encourage them to stay focused, continue to do the job that they do so well and so adequately. Like Lashonda there, you know, she knows she's under a lot of stress, but she's going to do her job to the best of her ability. That's the type of employees that we represent. Although they're being called names, they'll do their job.

Jason Johnson (47:52)

Yeah, absolutely. And this would be a time if you're flying, to be extra nice and extra polite to the TSA agents that are helping you at the airport. Know that they are not getting a check. They're working for free. They're there making sure that no firearms get on the plane, that no bombs get on the plane, that you can get to your location safely. And they're now not just doing their job, they're doing it for free. And they don't know when they're going to get another paycheck. So please be extra kind to anyone you know who's a federal employee. They're working hard for you. If they're in the Department of Labor, they're trying to make sure you have a job. But right now, they're not sure they're going to have a job. Everett Kelly, lashonda Parker, Brett Barron, thank you all very much. We appreciate you coming in a little bit late. I know we kept you over.

Brent Barron (48:31)

Thank you, Joy.

Jason Johnson (48:32)

Thank you so much. Appreciate it. All right. We are now, well, in we are 2 minutes, about 2 minutes or so into our 7 o' clock hour of the Joy Reid Show. We have a lot coming up, including my refutation of the lie that for a while it was on AI saying that I never interviewed JD Vance, but I actually did interview JD Vance. I did it back in 2016 on my weekend show AM Joy and we have unearthed the web deleted clips and I'm gonna bring them to you this hour as I continue to troll the troll who has decided that it is his job rather than being vice president, by the way, he is getting his check. He's getting paid. The United States senators are getting paid and the members of the House are getting paid. Their staffs, on the other hand, not so much that they're getting paid. The lawmakers who are golfing with Trump, they're going to get a check. Trump's getting his check. And I'm like, he doesn't take the money. Yeah, he does. And also his ballroom, the people who are building his ballroom, I don't know if they're getting paid, but they're still building his ballroom. But I'm going to troll J.D. vance because J.D. vance was, for whatever reason, has decided that it's his mission in life and his job, rather than doing something and working for the American people, he's decided his job is to troll me. We're also going to talk about the MAGA Confederacy and the Southern invasion of blue cities like Portland, Oregon, Los Angeles and now Chicago. And Trump Basically declaring martial law on the American people. And we're going to talk about his creepiest little henchman, Stephen Miller, giving away the game live on tv and then his cat literally getting his tongue. And then we do have a really heavenly moment of joy at the end of the show. I'm really excited about it. So welcome back to hour two of the Joy Reid Show. Please make sure you hit like and share. But first, before I get into all of those things, you want to hear something crazy? I got something crazy for you. This is B1 for Jason, a Republican state lawmaker in the state of Florida. I mean, because, of course, has filed a bill requiring all of Florida's public state universities and colleges to rename one roadway on their campuses after the slain conservative activist Charlie Kerrick. And if they don't, the legislation proposes holding back state funds that go to the institutions. The guy's name is State Representative Kevin Steele. He's of Dade City, Florida. He filed the bill. It's called HB113 in the Florida House on October 7th. There's no Senate companion yet, so it's not that close to becoming a law. He did not want to comment onto the Tallahassee Democrat who wrote the story. The bill, if passed, would make each institution's board of trustees redesignate the following roadways or portions of roadways as applicable, and they include on that the historically black colleges in the state of Florida. Yeah, famu. FAMU would be required to redesignate West Osceola street as Charlie James Kirk Street. It's giving Daughters of the Confederacy erecting Robert E. Lee statues in the 1950s to send a message to black Americans who were daring to demand civil rights. And as we delve deep into the American autocracy, today is also the day that the former director of the FBI, James Comey, went to court to plead not guilty to lying to Congress, which is wild because he didn't commit a crime. But Trump ordered Pam Bondi. Pamela Joe, as we like to call her. Katie Fang came up with it, and I continue to stick with it. Pamela Joe was ordered by Trump in a DM he thought was a dm, but that actually was made public. There it is. It's giving Epstein. Client list is on my desk.

Reporter/Interviewer (51:53)

What desk?

Jason Johnson (51:54)

What desk?

Reporter/Interviewer (51:55)

Do you mean this desk.

Jason Johnson (51:58)

Literally? He said, you need to prosecute all my enemies. I want the prosecution of my enemies to begin. And it's taking too long. And he was mad about it. We're going to play B4, which is Pamela Joe went to the United States Senate which by the way, again, is still working. She was there yesterday testifying all day. She goes to the United States Senate and senators who again are still actually doing their jobs are getting paid for. And here, let me play you, Maisie Orono, the United States Senator from Hawaii, trying to get her to explain why you're prosecuting James Comey. Here's that.

Reporter/Interviewer (52:31)

An indictment against James Comey. That social media post behind me saying what about Kobe was directed to Pam. Are you the Pam that the President was referring to?

Jason Johnson (52:47)

I'm sure I was. I'm sure I was.

Reporter/Interviewer (52:49)

So it's very clear to me that when the President posts something like that.

Jason Johnson (52:53)

That he considers the DoJ to be.

Reporter/Interviewer (52:55)

His law firm and you his lawyer. And in fact, very shortly after the post to you, Comey gets indicted last.

Jason Johnson (53:06)

Yeah, that's what happened. And she's like. So then she tries to like say that 77 year old Maisie Hirono is in antifa. She's like, well, I don't like the fact that you are marching with antifa. Maybe there's no such thing as antifa. Pamela Joe, there's no antifa. It isn't real. Is antifa in the room with you right now? Pamela Joe Nasy, Rono ain't in it if it was real. Now let me let you hear Amy Klobuchar. Senator Amy Klobuchar tried to get her to actually explain why she is following Donald Trump's orders and indicting folks, the.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (53:35)

Truth social post on September 20, 2025 in which the President said, we can't delay any longer. Pam using your name, not bringing criminal charges are killing our reputation, his words and credibility. And then goes on to tell you to prosecute a member of this committee, to prosecute the Attorney General of New.

Jason Johnson (53:58)

York and to prosecute James Comey.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (54:00)

Do you consider that a directive to the Justice Department?

Jason Johnson (54:05)

Senator Klobuchar, President Trump is the most transparent president in American history. Senator Klobuchar, Donald Trump said something that he hasn't said for years. Yes. Okay. Senator Klobuchar and Donald Trump is the most transparent president in American history. That is a script that I was given and I am going to read it because that is what Donald Trump expects me to do. Like she's literally performing for her audience of what she also refused to answer questions about kava 50 grand bag man Tom Homan and the bribery investigation that seems to have proof disappeared faster than the Epstein files. Here is Vermont Senator Peter Welch trying to get her to just be responsive, just answer the Question.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (54:49)

I do want to go back to Homan.

Jason Johnson (54:50)

You know there's a tape, right?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (54:52)

With Mr. Homan.

Jason Johnson (54:54)

I mean, first of all, is there a tape that has audio and video of the transfer of the 50,000? You would have to talk to Director Patel about that.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (55:04)

No, I'm talking to you.

Jason Johnson (55:06)

I don't know the answer.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (55:07)

Senator, you do know the answer to that.

Jason Johnson (55:09)

You call me a liar?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (55:10)

I didn't call you a liar.

Jason Johnson (55:12)

You just said, I know the answer. I said, I don't know the answer. You have to talk to Director Patel. What I said is that investigation. Let me put it another way.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (55:20)

If you don't know, why don't you.

Jason Johnson (55:21)

Know whether there was a tape and video? Senator, I believe that was resolved prior to my confirmation as attorney general. Do you think that it is of.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (55:33)

Public interest for the people to know what happened to the 50 grand that the FBI turned over to Homan?

Jason Johnson (55:39)

Did you hear what I just said? That was resolved to prior to my confirmation as attorney General. That's why I said I would not go first. It's not resolved.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (55:50)

There's $50,000. Homan has it or somebody has it.

Jason Johnson (55:54)

Do you have no interest in knowing where it is? You're not going to sit here and slander Tom Homan. The FBI and Deputy Director Blanche said there was nothing.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (56:05)

I'm not slamming Tom Homan. He got to 50 million.

Jason Johnson (56:08)

Tom Holman is doing. How do you know that? Tom Homan is doing a great job. Job as our borders are keeping your border state safe. She said, oh, how dare you call me a liar. You call me a liar? Donald Trump sent me in here to tell you that Tom Homan is a saint. Tom Homan is keeping your state safe. She is so rude. Those people in the chat were saying she, she rude. Rude. She rude. She was rude the whole time. You're not gonna say anything bad about not all drum boy Tom Hammond leave the most tomorrow men have ever been in government. I'm Lenny Ren Stahl of the Trump regime and I'm gonna let you know how come and try to talk about that. You're never gonna talk about my man like that. She's performing for Donald Trump. This is actually what Donald Trump expects, right? This is what they want. She's like, there's no abstinence. I've never heard of an abstinent file. Have you ever heard me say there was an abstinen file? It's a liar. Never said it. There's no abstinence. There's never been an abstinent. File now. Never met enough. Say, I am Pamela Jo and I work for Alondra. Let's go to the other person who was revealing, revealing Cash Patel, the other person who in addition to Pam Bondi, was promising you the American people and their base that they were going to give you the Epstein files. Cash Patel was the other one. But now Cash Patel is like, Epstein files. Never heard of him. I'm going to Valhalla. And by the way, like, 10% of the city of Chicago are gang members. They're all gang members. That's what I'm really focused on. Gang members, gang, gang, gang members. He said everybody are gang members. This is B9 taking the juggernaut that is demolishing the weaponization of law enforcement and bringing it to places like Chicago. When I was there today with Todd, we learned that the Chicago city streets have 110,000 gang members. That's right. You heard me right. They had 1200 shootings this year alone. 360 homicides. When politicians choose to side with those metrics and not their citizenry, thank God we have President Trump and this Department of Justice and this FBI going in there and crushing violent crime. And President Trump sent us into these cities quietly to set the stage, to set up for the National Guard to see the success that we saw in Washington D.C. in Memphis. The FBI has been leading the charge in every single one of these streets. And because we know how to gather ground level intelligence and we know how to put handcuffs on the bad guys, and we know that we have the backing of this administration and most importantly, the agents at the FBI know that they have the backing of the American people and their government. Yeah. How come they all are starting to sound like each other? Have you guys noticed that they're all starting to sound alike? I'm gonna make sure that Donald Trump destroys the 100 bazillion gang members in the city of Chicago. Chicago is basically 50% gang. It's not about the abstain files. It's about the gang members of Chicago. I just did some quickie math. By his calculation, 5% of the city of Chicago are gang members. Like, 5% of them are gang members. Is that like, realistic? That's what he thinks they're like. I'm just, He's. They're just like. I'm gonna say crazy things on TV and say the juggernaut that has suddenly made D.C. go from hellscape to safe is coming for Chicago, which is 5% gang members. Okay. He's not the only person that's saying Crazy things for Trump's entertainment. And you know, Stephen Miller, who, again, until I see him in person, AOC said, that man is 410. He's 410 to me. And he does look like a munchkin. He looks like a little mean gnome. Like, if you put in. If you put him in your lawn, I promise you, foxes wouldn't come to your lawn because they'd be terrified. Like, he looks like a gnome. He looks like a little. He looks like a little creatures that. Like, he looks like he turns into. Like he sprouts wings at night, like a bat. But he is now also saying the thing. So he goes on TV and it says his version of the crazy things, but his was a little bit revealing. Here is Stephen Miller talking, talking his.

Joy Reid (60:01)

Talk organ, Legal insurrection.

Jason Johnson (60:05)

Does the administration still plan to abide by that ruling?

Governor J.B. Pritzker (60:11)

Well, the administration filed an appeal this.

Joy Reid (60:13)

Morning with the 9th Circuit.

JD Vance (60:15)

I would note the administration won an.

Joy Reid (60:17)

Identical case in the 9th Circuit just a few months ago with respect to.

Jason Johnson (60:22)

The federalizing of the California national guard.

JD Vance (60:24)

Under Title 10 of the US Code.

Joy Reid (60:26)

The President has plenary authority, has.

Jason Johnson (60:31)

Stephen? Stephen? Stephen. Hey, Steven, can you hear me?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (60:38)

He glitched.

Jason Johnson (60:44)

I apologize. It seems like we're having a technical. You weren't having a technical problem. He just realized I just said the Nazi thing. I said Nazi thing. Just pretend that I'm not here. I'll just pretend that I'm invisible and he won't even see me. Maybe he'll cut away because he won't think that I'm here. Maybe I can use my powers of invisibility to just go away. If I stop speaking, maybe I will also become invisible. After all, I am Nosferatu. Maybe I will literally go inside of my dayside grave instantaneously. If I just stop talking, I will just fade into my Nosferatu tomb. He won't be able to see me if I just don't say anything. He glitched. And the reason that he glitched like that, the reason he went silent, is that in that moment, in that. In that moment, Stephen Miller realized that he just fucked it. He messed it up. He told the truth about what their plan is, right? He's. He's like Donald Trump who can't stop telling on what they're going to do. You know what plenary power is? Let me read you. I just Googled it. I. Plenary power. According to the Council Law School's Legal Information Institute, which you can find online, it is recognized as complete power over a particular area with no limitations, meaning unreviewable, uncheckable, unrestrainable power. It means the power of a king. Monarchical, irreviewable power, meaning not checkable by Congress, not checkable by a court. Here he is claiming that when it comes to immigration, Donald Trump is a king. Now, we've heard that before because we essentially have had that said by the Supreme Court. Donald Trump believes the same thing. This is B11, Jason. And this is Donald Trump using his social media thingy to say the Chicago mayor should be arrested and thrown in jail for failing to protect ICE officers. Governor Pritzker also plenary power. That is what he's claiming they have. And Stephen Miller glitched because he said, oh, my God, I accidentally said it. They all really do have the same voice. You just could use the same voice actor for all of these people. Let me let you hear Donald Trump himself also tweaking out and not able to restrain himself from saying the thing. He's talking about his favorite thing, insurrection.

Governor J.B. Pritzker (63:09)

Well, I do it if it was necessary.

Jason Johnson (63:11)

So far it hasn't been necessary, but.

Brent Barron (63:12)

We have an Insurrection act for a reason.

Jason Johnson (63:15)

If I had to enact it, I didn't. I'd do that. If people were being killed and courts were holding us up, or governors or.

Governor J.B. Pritzker (63:22)

Mayors were holding us up, sure, I'd do that.

Jason Johnson (63:25)

I mean, I want to make sure that people aren't killed. We have to make sure that our cities are safe. The Insurrection act, is that going to be formally invoked? Is that a way to kind of get around all this opposition? Well, it is a way to get around it. If we don't have to use it, I wouldn't use it. The. If you take a look at what's been going on in Portland, it's been going on for a long time. And that's insurrection.

Governor J.B. Pritzker (63:48)

I mean, that's pure insurrection.

Jason Johnson (63:50)

And then you have a governor get.

Brent Barron (63:52)

Up and say there's absolutely nothing wrong.

Jason Johnson (63:54)

And you see these places are burning down. Like in Chicago with Pritzker. They're not burning down. Chicago was not burning down. There was literally, Chicago was a normal city until Donald Trump's Gestapo got there. I love that people in the chat are calling Stephen Miller Pee wee German. That's actually a good one. That's pretty good. It's Donald Trump and his masked ICE agents, his ICE Gestapo. They create the chaos. Then people protest the kidnapping of random people in the street. Protesters come out, and then Trump's feds arrest them. So random feds. It's not just ice. You're getting Hit by all kinds of Feds. They are dropping and repelling not just ice, but ATF and all sorts of other feds onto random apartment buildings in the middle of the night or at 1 o' clock in the morning, zip tying children, creating chaos, and then saying, if you don't have the local police help us kidnap people, it's an insurrection. And Trump is now threatening to literally invoke the Insurrection act because he's claiming it's an insurrection. What is the Insurrection Act? It was passed in 1807. It allows the President of the United States to mobilize the United States military to con to conduct civilian law enforcement activities under certain circumstances. The last time the Insurrection act was used on American citizens was in 1992 in the LA riots. That's the last time that US military were put onto the streets of the United States using the Insurrection Act. Donald Trump is saying that. Not because there are widespread riots. I want to note that the Insurrection act was not used when a literal band of marauding Trump supporters tried to overthrow the government and ransack the United States Capitol. He didn't use it then, but he's saying that they're going to put armed agents and masked men in civilian clothes, have them kidnap people. When people react to that, they're going to call that an insurrection. And if the mayors and governors of those cities and states don't cooperate and allow their police to cooperate, if they hold their police back, then they're going to say the whole city and state is under insurrection and put the military in there. Let me let you hear the Chicago mayor's response. This is Chicago Mayor Brandon.

Joy Reid (66:10)

If he was serious about safety, he would not have defunded a program of $800 million that was geared towards violence prevention. He cut the ATF budget by 30%. He has defunded our education system. He has defunded our transportation system. He is firing black women across this country. He's defunding our health care system.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (66:32)

This.

Jason Johnson (66:32)

This president is absolutely out of control. And it's incumbent upon all of us.

Joy Reid (66:37)

If there was ever a time for working people to unite in this country, now is that time.

Jason Johnson (66:42)

And the city of Chicago is going.

Joy Reid (66:43)

To stand firm and in protecting humanity and protecting and defending our democracy.

Jason Johnson (66:47)

All right. Okay. And now let me let you hear Governor Pritzker himself. And he basically told Jacob Soboroff of MSNBC he's not sure. He thinks Trump is super serious about this arrest. What does that mean exactly? Governor, do you believe that he would follow through or that he'll Chicken out. He basically said the same thing to Governor Gavin Newsom when I was with him at the height of the raids in the Los Angeles area. Governor Gavin Newsom is walking free on the streets of California. You think that he'll chicken out or would he ever arrest you?

Governor J.B. Pritzker (67:15)

Well, you know the expression, Trump always chickens out, taco. And I got to say, he can't. We've done nothing wrong here. And very importantly, it's Donald Trump that is breaching the Constitution, breaking the law. We're taking him to court, and I believe we're going to win right now.

Jason Johnson (67:31)

But Governor Pritzker is pragmatic, as is the governor of California, Gavin Newsom, because he also went on with Rachel Maddow and issued a pretty stark warning about what he sees as Trump's true goals. And here's Pritzker again.

Governor J.B. Pritzker (67:45)

Well, the broader goal, I believe is the militarization of major American Cities before the 2026 elections. Let me be clear about what's going on on the streets of Chicago. They have dressed ICE and CBP in fatigues, put them in military gear, including with automatic weapons, and had them marching up and down major streets in downtown Chicago. It's a signal that they're trying to send that it's okay to have troops on your street, that this would be a welcome thing for people who live in Chicago. Nobody here welcomes it, by the way. I mean, literally, as they're walking down the street, people are yelling at them, but they think they can get people used to the idea. And next year, I fear that what they're going to do is deploy these folks eventually to polling places and say they're protecting the vote. Donald Trump knows that without shenanigans and without this, these breaches of the Constitution, that he's going to lose the Congress. And if he loses, he's going to immediately, in the aftermath of the election, do what he said he might do in 2020, which is use the military to confiscate the ballot boxes and count the votes claiming that there's fraud. Remember, he's called up all 50 states election data to the Department of Justice because they want to review all 50 states for fraud. And they won't tell you exactly what they're going to do. But I fear that these are all connected and they this militarization, even without National Guard or military troops on the ground, you're seeing ICE act like a militaristic organization. You're seeing CBP act like it. One more thing, cbp, I want to remind you the Customs and Border Patrol, they're supposed to only operate within about 100 miles of a border. We're not anywhere near a border here in Chicago. So how can they operate here? Well, they're claiming that Lake Michigan, the shores of Lake Michigan in Chicago, those shores are the border of the United States. And but Canada is an awful long way from here across Lake Michigan. So we know that they're using it again as a pretext. They want CBP here. Those are the folks that you saw in uniform marching up and down the streets. Greg Bevino, who led the effort in Los Angeles for the Customs and Border Patrol and ice, is leading the effort here in Chicago. And you saw what happened in Los Angeles. They incited people and they're doing that here in Chicago. We want them. I mean, if they're going to do that, they got to go. We honestly they got got to get the hell out of Chicago if that is their aim. But that is what Donald Trump, I believe, is trying to incite it so they can bring more troops in, invoke the Insurrection act and militarize Chicago and other major cities.

Jason Johnson (70:56)

You've got to hear him out because this is think about it for just a moment, see what you're saying. By the way, he also did add something else. Let me just tell you what else he said. He did a call in interview with the Chicago Tribune and he said that Donald Trump is deploying troops to Chicago not just during his fix about because of his obsessive fixations, as he called it. He said it's also due to dementia. J.B. pritzker, J.B. pritzker said it's not just his fixations is also dementia. Let me read a little bit of the Chicago Tribune story. In a scathing critique of President Donald Trump, Governor Jamie Pritzker on Tuesday accused the Republican president of deploying National Guard troops to the Democratic cities of Chicago and Portland based on fixations that stem in part from him being mentally impaired. This is a man who's suffering dementia, pritzker said in a telephone interview with the Tribune. This is a man who has something stuck in his head. He can't get it out of his head. He doesn't read. He doesn't know anything that's up to date. It's just something in the recesses of his brain that is effectuating to have him call out these cities. And then unfortunately, he has the power of the military, the power of the federal government to do his bidding. And that's what he is doing. The governor's comments came as National Guard troops were assembling at the U.S. army Reserve Training center in a in far southwest suburban Elwood, and Trump's administration was moving Forward with deploying 300 members of the Illinois National Guard for at least 60 days, which they won't probably get paid for. Over the vocal and legal objections of Pritzker and other local elected leaders, the Trump administration has said the troops are needed to protect federal agents and facilities involved in its ongoing deportation surge and has sought to do much the same in Portland, Oregon, though those efforts have been stymied so far by federal court rulings. A federal judge in Chicago is expected to hold a hearing this week over the legal efforts by Illinois and Chicago to block the deployments, which Pritzker and other local officials say is not only unnecessary but a violation of the Posse Comitatus act that prohibits the use of US Military assets from taking part in law enforcement actions on domestic soil. During the interview, Pritzker, who's also been one of Trump's harshest critics and he's also potential 2028 presidential Democratic candidate, said the courts will play an integral role in challenging Trump's efforts in Illinois and across the nation. We're not going to go to war between the state of Illinois and the federal government, not taking up arms against the federal government, pritzker said. But we are monitoring everything they're doing and using that monitoring to win in court. What he's saying, and I think what you're also hearing Gavin Newsom say, is that this is a rehearsal Donald Trump is rehearsing, getting people used to seeing military on their streets. They're claiming first it's about immigration, then they shifted and said it's about crime. They've got a compliant FBI, a compliant dea, a compliant Justice Department that has that is not going to stand in the way and protect the rights of American citizens. The Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department is busy sending letters to people who have Black Joy funds and saying you can't provide a Black Joy fund for new black parents. That is violating the civil rights laws and that it is against the civil rights laws for you to give grants to black kids who want to go to college. That's what the civil rights office is doing. They're essentially, you know, adjudicating this idea of reverse racism. That's all they do. So there is no federal government and no protection and they know John Roberts won't stop him. And once he gets you used to seeing troops on the streets of Portland and Chicago, etc, they're going to be there through the election. They're going to be there through this year's election, and they're going to be there through the next election. Trust and believe. Yes, absolutely. And, and so the reality is we are, we are in a, in a, not a good place because what Donald Trump is going to do is use those military troops to. Jason, can you, can you, can you, can you bring me back that back again? They, they want to use those military troops to try to essentially militarize the next election so that people will either be too afraid to vote, too afraid to go to the polls, too afraid to exercise their legal rights, hoping that that means that Donald Trump can stay in office and that Republicans can stay in power and that there essentially will be no changeover in power, because I showed you those polls. Donald Trump is deeply unpopular. His policies are unpopular. He's making things worse for people, he's making things harder for people economically. And he knows he's in trouble, and he never wants to leave office. And I do believe he's got some deficiencies up here where he fixates on things that he thought about in the 80s. In the 80s, he was fixated on Chicago's dangerous, New York City's dangerous, these blue cities are dangerous. And he just is still there. He can't get beyond that. He's in a loop. And his loop enables people around him to use him for their ends. And so Donald Trump is in this loop where he thinks forever that Chicago is the Chicago of the 1980s and New York City is the New York city of the 80s. He can't get out of the 80s. And so that loop in his head allows him to lean into his authoritarian inclinations. I do believe we have our guests. We have our guest right now. I think we might have her.

Joy Reid (76:02)

We do.

Jason Johnson (76:02)

All right, let's bring in State Senator Graciela Guzman, and she is an organizer for the Chicago Teachers Union and also a state senator in the great state Illinois. Thank you so much for being here.

Reporter/Interviewer (76:14)

Senator Guzman, thank you so much for having me.

Jason Johnson (76:17)

Joy, let's talk about what's happening in your state right now. Do you concur with your governor that this exercise in violating the people of Chicago is a test to try to see if a full, I guess, Southern military occupation by Southern troops in cities like Chicago can be made permanent? Yeah.

Reporter/Interviewer (76:35)

Let's talk about what we're seeing. In my district, the 20th district that I represent has pockets that are deeply, beautifully immigrant and have been so for a long time. And what we have seen has been untethered. Violence unlike anything we have ever experienced. You know, what I talk about are literally the babies of my district. The children that get awoken to doors getting beaten in, windows getting shattered as they're trying to find something, someone in their home. Just the other day there was tear gas actively being deployed in front of an emergency room, impeding the life saving care of people that needed care. Folks on the street, you know, subject to pepper bombs is what they call it when they deploy it. That basically was getting deployed in front of a supermarket, literally a stone throws away from a school. So when we really talk about some of the pieces that you just lifted up, you know, the militarization of our city to the point that it does not matter if you're in a hospital, if you are in a school, if you are in a court, if you are at home. There is no place that the Trump administration deems sanctified right of dignifying with life and the ability to be able to pursue happiness and safety. Right? So they're saying no space is stay from us. We will continue to impede on all of these bases until you all relent as a city and as a state. And, you know, I counter, you know, Chicago and my constituents have been so vocal in this process. Joy. It is very rare to not be in this office and not have a call from a constituent that is like sobbing, that is deeply concerned, that wants to figure out how to protect their neighbors. So that demonstrates to us and the face of what is a very clear agenda from the Trump administration to bring us all into an authoritarian regime, we can resist, we can bring joy, we can bring community love. And we do so in spite of the face of the Trump administration that seeks to continue to roll us on this course.

Jason Johnson (78:39)

And I just want to play. Are you. Is Alder Jesse Fuentes in your district?

Reporter/Interviewer (78:43)

Alder woman Jesse Fuentes is one of my alders, and I was on the ground with her on Friday just minutes after she was horrendously detained by ICE for merely asserting the question of reminding us all that we have constitutional rights, right? That there are judicial warrants, that we have a right to see them and ensure that they are in use, especially in sensitive locations like our hospitals.

Jason Johnson (79:07)

Right, Let me play for you one moment, just so that everyone can understand. If you haven't seen what happened with Alderman Jesse Fuentes, I went post it on my social media. We're going to play it now. This is B19, Jason. This is what happened in a hospital.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (79:18)

No, she has constitutional rights.

Jason Johnson (79:20)

Do you have a sign?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (79:21)

No, you need to leave for me.

Joy Reid (79:23)

Turn around.

Jason Johnson (79:24)

We turn around and leave.

JD Vance (79:25)

He is under.

Joy Reid (79:26)

I'm going to arrest.

Jason Johnson (79:28)

You are going to be placed under arrest. Can somebody go in the hallway and get Lisa for me, please? Please, can somebody go in the hallway and get Lisa for me? This is an older person who's being under arrest. I need my other staffer who's in the hallway by registration to come here, please. Can somebody get my staffer, please?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (79:54)

This is the hospital.

Reporter/Interviewer (79:55)

Do you have a sign to this award for him? I am asking. I am asking.

Jason Johnson (80:02)

I did not touch you.

Joy Reid (80:03)

Told you.

Jason Johnson (80:10)

Is Lisa still out there? You can keep it rolling, but if you pull the. I don't know if you can pull the sound down and we can just hear the Senate, the state senator. This is an elected official inside of a hospital. There was a man being treated because I believe he had been injured running from ICE agents join.

Reporter/Interviewer (80:31)

Not just injured, they shattered multiple points of his leg. That is the brutality that ICE operates within our district. And clearly they show no impunity even in front of an elected official. And what elder woman Jesse Fuentes and I were reminded of this is on camera. She is an alder woman. She is an elected official that is not just loved. She is beloved in her district and in that hospital. And even then, look at how they treated her. So imagine what must happen to everyday Chicagoans, everyday lawyers, everyday Americans, because this is what they are trying to institute as commonplace everywhere.

Jason Johnson (81:05)

Let me play one more piece of video. First of all, let me just do B20 really quick, if you don't mind, Jason. And this is what happened to a priest. I just want you all to just get a sense of. There is no limit on who they are willing to abuse. This is a priest. This is last month. The Reverend David Block stood in front of a Chicago US Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility and spread his arms wide, adorned in all black and wearing a clergical collar. The pastor looked up at a group of masked, heavily armed ICE agents on the roof and began to pray. He says I invited them to repentance. He said he's a minister of the Presbyterian Church. He said it in an interview. I basically offered an altar call. I invited them to come and receive that salvation, to be part of the the kingdom that is coming. When he went to lower his arms a few seconds later. Let me show you the Next. This is B21. Let me show you what they did. This is again, he's a priest in his collar and robes. He's literally dressed in his clergical collar and robes. He is opening his arms, inviting these mask agents on the roof to pray. These are the people who claim that they're Christians. And Jason, let me know when you're ready to play that, because I want you all to see. They don't care about a child. They will zip tie them. They don't care about a mom. They will separate them from their kid. They don't care about a student, somebody injured. Okay, Jason, play what happened to this priest? They shot a priest with pepper balls. Senator, if. If priests aren't safe, if Alder persons aren't safe, if children aren't safe from being zip tied and taken away from their parents who are American citizens and thrown into a U haul, and if the men that we're seeing doing it don't have badges, don't have uniforms, they just look like a proud boy off the street. How do you keep your constituents safe in that environment?

Reporter/Interviewer (83:12)

I think in the face of this environment is where I really want to lift up, you know, the history of resistance, of community care that is not happening just in Chicago, is happening in cities across the country through rapid response. And so here in my district, we have hundreds and hundreds of neighbors who for weeks have said, in the face of that, we're actually going to say stand up to protect our neighbors. We're going to love on them and make sure that the kids end up at school. We're going to make sure that we have walking bus to get folks to work or wherever they've got to be. We will continue to monitor ICE so that we can warn our neighbors, help them with food, help them with mutual aid. Right? And I think that's really important when you really think about what the Trump administration is seeking to do as it descends us into authoritarianism and fascism. Right. One to disconnect us from one another. Because if it can otherize anybody. Fascism needs an enemy, Right? The enemy of the moment for the administration is immigrants. But it won't be long. And they're already showing their signs, right, in terms of how they intend to demonize and weaponize anyone that they don't respect. So that's the LGBTQ community, our folks with disabilities, so many of the folks that we love. Right? So that's one piece that's extremely important. But how we counteract that, again, is the resilience as the community coming together. Because if we won't allow ourselves to be otherized, you know, if we continue building unity, you know, we can continue to resist against an administration that seeks us to do all of those things.

Jason Johnson (84:40)

Last question, too, because you're an organizer for the Chicago Teachers Union. How are the teachers and kids doing in your. In your Senate district?

Reporter/Interviewer (84:47)

Can I just say, I am so freaking proud of our teachers, of our school community. You know what? I have seen our principals that with their love and care, are ensuring that those babies are in the safest place that they can be while they're in school. They are putting their bodies on the line. They are putting their staff on the line. They're doing everything that they can. What I have seen is that our community has wrapped around our schools. You know, Joy, we opened up a form this week to say to neighbors, if you want to patrol your school, make sure that it's safe. Sign up here. Today, we did it for over 90 schools, less than 24 hours. The whole week is filled a thousand shifts. That is how deeply, despite the Trump administration seeking to rip apart our ability to have a future, an opportunity where we are all liberated, we are fighting for it. And so we're going to continue doing it at our educational institutions, we're going to continue safeguarding that folks have the help of that they need. As I remind folks in this budget that gives and gives and gives to ICE so that it can rip your health care away, your food stamps away, all of your resources, we're going to continue to protect that because again, our bodies, our humanity, all of that deserves to be dignified. So the Trump administration can seek doing what it's doing. Chicago is going to seek doing what it does at its finest, which is to organize, to resist, to do it with one another and to. To disallow and totally unavow the Trump administration to continue doing this to our people.

Jason Johnson (86:13)

I hate what they're doing, and I hate that they're doing it to your community. But I don't think they understood Chicago. I don't think they knew what they were doing. Listen, they gonna. They gonna learn. They gonna learn. State Senator Graciela Guzman, District 20, is very lucky to have you. Thank you very much. We appreciate you and feel free to come back anytime. You're always welcome. Welcome here.

Reporter/Interviewer (86:34)

Thank you.

Jason Johnson (86:35)

Thank you very much. And before we go, Representative Guzman. She's doing the work. Before we go, I just want to show you the dastardly terror of another city that's under attack, which is Portland, Oregon, where Kristi Gnome showed up with, like, a podcast friend to do one of her little PR stunts or tours. In front, in the front line again, the war against Americans with the Department of War. Here she is in Portland. Showing you the terror, the terror that the people of Portland are facing in that very Viking city. There she is. I'm gonna show you. Got my military, got my troops. We're gonna look over. Don't you see how violent is. Do you see the riots? Can't you feel the riots? Can't you feel antifa? Actually, she's dressed like antifa. Maybe Christine O. Is antifa. Why is. Why is she dressed like antifa? She's an all black. Like she's antifa. She's looking over the riots. You can see them. You can see the riotousness and the violence. Any moment you're gonna see the antifa that she is. She is attempting to. To stop. There they are. Look. Oh, wait a minute. It's a human chicken. Oh, God. A human chicken. A human chicken. Oh, God. Oh, God, the riots. Oh, God, oh, God, I'm scared. Oh, Jason, you gotta take that away. I'm scared. Oh, God. Please send in the Department of War. Please, for the love of God, for the love of God, send it in. The Department of War. The chicken man of Portland. The chicken man. That is why we need the Department of War and Christy Noem, the wreck shop. Get these miscreants under control. The human chicken. I'm scared of human chickens. I don't know about you. That's why. That is the kind of city that Donald Trump. But it is not because they are riotous. It's because they're blue and they're going to occupy them using Southern troops because they're blue. That's the reason this is happening, y'. All. All right, let's get to. We're a little behind, but I want to get to J.D. vance. I did promise you guys I was going to get to J.D. vance. Remember when he responded to my. Moving on to J.D. vance, to my statement that he got into Yale because of, you know, white poor guy, affirmative action, with this weird meme. Remember that he put the bald. Weird meme of himself, that he was like the chubby bald guy. That's weird. Well, he apparently wasn't done with me even then. He decided to say that I, Joy and Marie lamentaride, am not grateful. I'm not grateful for the fact that my mama came here as an immigrant and they was allowed to survive and live. That they didn't put her. They didn't put her down. They let her. They allowed her to live. And I'm not grateful enough. So he decided to troll me. So I decided to troll him back. I did a colorful response with Tommy Christopher, which you can find on my substack and you can find it on Tommy Christopher's and on Mediaite. But I also wrote a lengthier, you know, more well thought out response on my substack, which you can read. But I actually decided, you know what, what I want to do is to do. He decided to offer me advice. I'm going to offer JD Vance some non trolling advice too. And my Advice to you, J.D. vance, James David Vance, John Donald Vance, whatever Your name is, J.D. vance, you've changed your name a few times, but I'm a go with JD Vance. My advice to you is go back to the JD Vance that you were when I interviewed you on AM Joy back in the day when I had a show at Ms. Now, it's now called MSNow. But when it was MSNBC and I had an AMJO, a show called AM Joy back in 2016 when his book came out, JD Vance's book came out, he came on the show and we had a very interesting conversation. Let me play you a part of that conversation. We had to unearth. Thank you to my team. Incredible. Had to unearth because this thing is deleted off the MSNBC website. You can't find it on the MSNBC website anymore. Oh, but we found it. Here's part one of that interview. This is C3 for Jason Reid joining me now. JD thank you so much for being here. I have read so many think pieces about your book and so seen so many interviews with you. I have the book right here. Can't wait to dive into it. But your story, first of all, is fascinating. So the way you went from sort of Rust Belt country to Yale. Can you very briefly give us a synopsis of your own own story?

JD Vance (90:38)

Yeah. So I grew up in a pretty rough and tumble area. My family struggled with a lot of the things that white working class Americans are struggling from. But thanks to the promise of my grandparents and them playing a really positive role in my life, I was able to get out, as they say. I joined the Marine Corps right after high school as a lot of kids in my neighborhood did. And then I went from there to college and then to Yale Law School. So I've had a pretty good life, kind of classically upwardly mobile life. But really the book is about why there aren't more kids like me, why I was one of the lucky few and why there aren't more who are lucky like I am.

Jason Johnson (91:10)

You know, one of the things that's really fascinating about your story, JD and the story that you Tell about people that you know, you. So he goes on to talk about the, you know, the people of Appalachia and where he grew up. Let's play part two. And we continue because we had to break it up. You can't sometimes earn the contempt of fellow white Americans is how similar some of the pathologies you talk about are to the pathologies that normally people assign to African Americans. Right. That, you know, these ideas about the way you're raised. You're raised mostly by your grandparents. The way that you were able to use opportunity, like the military to get a college degree, that's very familiar across racial lines. So why do you suppose there's such a huge gulf and distance ideologically between African Americans and people from where you like, the ones you came from?

JD Vance (91:54)

Well, obviously, a lot of it goes back to 40 or 50 years ago when the two groups sort of diverged because of certain policies that were supported, you know, by Nixon, by Goldwater and so forth. So I think that some of it has its root in that history. A big part of it is just that because of the way that black Americans have been discriminated against legally, I think black Americans have tended to focus on the politics of race and which party is going to provide. Provide the most racial upload.

Jason Johnson (92:21)

So he said that basically African Americans and Appalachian whites used to align, and then they somehow diverge. People are noticing no eyeliner. He was a little fluffy. He was a little portly back then. He didn't have the beard. He was sort of a soft, fluffy version of J.D. vance. And that was the way he really looked. That is the way he always looked. Right pre Smokey eye. He was just sort of, you know, sort of pudgy. And he looked more like the meme, which is why it was weird. What'd you say? Keep on going. Keep going. Let's do part three. Let's do part three. No, go ahead. Oh, no. Keep going.

Joy Reid (92:51)

No, I gotta find it.

Jason Johnson (92:52)

Oh, you gotta find it. Okay, so part three. So. So we. The conversation that we had was. I had now, by the way, I had not yet read the book. I'd started the book, but as I read it, finally after the interview, I was like, oh, this is a diss track against, like, Appalachian white people. It's basically saying, why are they so lazy? Why won't they, you know, pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Why are they all on drugs? Why are they all being raised by their parents? I managed to survive and get to Yale. What's wrong with these people? Like, it kind of was like a little bit of a diss track against his own people, which was kind of weird for me. Right. But as I'm interviewing him at the time, he seemed like pretty reasonable. Like he seemed like a more reasonable version of himself. Jason, let me know when you've got that. And it is C5 when you have it. But it's, it, it's interesting that not only was he swole, people are saying he's a little bit doughy, a little swole, which of course was not part of his brand. Note that in that era, in 2016, this guy writes this best selling book, Hillbilly Elegy, that becomes a New York Times, I believe, number one bestseller for people who are in the media who are obsessed with the white working class. They're obsessed with them. They're obsessed with, you know, hard scrabble, Appalachian white people, just like the Ivy League are obsessed with them, which is why they let them into Yale. They become obsessed. He gets, he Ron Howard, you know, Opie from back in the day. He literally makes a movie. He buys the movie rights to Hillbilly El. It makes a terrible movie, like the worst thing Glenn Close has ever made. It's like really not a good movie, but they make a movie out of it. And that actually gets J.D. vance noticed by Peter Teal. He come, this is a young Yale law educated. He was a, he was in the Marine Corps, but he was like a Marine Corps like journalist. Like he didn't like, he wasn't like a fighting Marine, he was more like a journalist Marine. He was like, right. He was like a writing Marine. And he gets noticed by Peter Thiel, who then scoops him up and gives him a job in his financial firm. So suddenly now he's in like the finance game, the investment sort of game. And he gets pulled into that because of the popularity that he had around Hillbilly Elegy. And I what is of a piece with that and what happened with Charlie Kirk is that these billionaires, these rich men, remember, a rich man found Charlie Kirk, who was an 18 year old junior college student, but who was like an Alex P. Keaton conservative. And they liked the fact that he said conservative things. So they were like, we're going to scoop him up and we're going to take him, pull him out of college. This rich man convinced Charlie Kirk to drop out of junior college and then go on tour to colleges, sort of acting like he's smarter than the college students. And Jason, you just let me know when you've got it but they use him because they're like, he is an authentic voice that is college aged that we can put on campuses and convince those college students to be conservative, to be free market conservatives. And at first that didn't work. He was doing sort of a free market, conservative financial Alex P. Keaton thing. And it really didn't catch on until he flipped it and became like junior Rush Limbaugh and started doing race and started doing culture war stuff and started doing LGBTQ and started really going hard on the culture war. Then he really caught on, especially during the pandemic. That's the shtick, though.

Joy Reid (95:54)

I got it.

Jason Johnson (95:54)

These rich men. Okay, let's, let's play part three. This is part three of our AM joint.

JD Vance (95:57)

Whereas white Americans have typically voted their pocketbook voted politics of class. And so they've tended to not necessarily overlap. They have sometimes, of course, but most of the times they're often voting for different groups.

Jason Johnson (96:10)

And it's interesting you say voting the politics of class are voting pocketbooks. One of the things that, whether it's in the book what's the Matter with Kansas, or sort of the way that we tend to think about white working class Americans, I think people mostly think that they vote sort of against their economic interests. So they become very anti union, for instance, even though that is what lifted up white Americans after World War II and gave them economic opportunity. They tend to be against policies that help the poor, even if they are themselves in need of social services or things like food stamps. Why do you suppose that is?

JD Vance (96:39)

Well, a big part of it is that folks in the white working class are a little uncomfortable with the idea that they need handouts. And so a lot of times, even though they may be voting against a candidate who is going to give them something economically, a lot of times they're voting. You know, when I say they vote, they're voting.

Jason Johnson (96:56)

Yeah, he said they, they have a pride factor that says they don't want handouts. A lot of them are on Medicaid, a lot of them are on food stamps. A lot of them are living on government handouts. But in their mind, they're, they're pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. And black people who are getting the exact same benefits are freeloaders. And then their mind freeloading off of them, even though when they file their taxes at the end of the year, a lot of them ain't paying taxes because they don't make no money. But in their mind, the pride factor says, no, no, we're better than the blacks. We're different from them. We don't want handouts. Here's parts 4 through 5.

JD Vance (97:27)

This is C6 being too reductionist about these sorts of things. There's some racial anxiety, there's some economic anxiety, but there's also some cultural anxiety. There's the anxiety of seeing too many heroin overdoses in your community, of seeing rising mortality rates. So my sense is that it's probably just a lot more complicated than even race or economics. It's probably sort of all of the above. So we should recognize the role that race plays in it. But I don't think we should be too reductionist about saying this is just a racist group of people, because that's not what I see in my own family. And I don't think that it gives enough credence to how much a lot of these folks are really struggling.

Jason Johnson (98:01)

I want to read just a little bit from your book. And they this is an excerpt from Hillbilly Elegy. It's accepted in the Washington Post. It says it's not entirely clear how Trump plans to bring factory jobs back to southern Ohio or rid eastern Kentucky of the prescription drug epidemic or cure western Pennsylvania's teenagers of their heroin addiction. Yet for people who no longer believe in the American dream of their parents and grandparents, slogans may be enough. Making America Great again may sound trite to some, but to a people reeling from a loss of civic faith, it's music to their ears. Why is this group of Americans so pessimistic and you know, explain a little bit more why Donald Trump's slogans resonate with them?

JD Vance (98:40)

Yeah, well, part of it is that pessimism is rooted in something legitimate. So if you think of my grandparents life, they expected, and really that was worn out by reality, that their kids would have a better material life than they have. But in a lot of ways, the white working class has gone from this constant economic optimism to past 20, 20 or 30 years. They've seen their prospects sort of fall off. So that pessimism creates a certain detachment from their country, a certain lack of faith in the future. And Donald Trump has obviously exploited that lack of faith. To a people who feel like maybe their country isn't that great again, isn't that great anymore. The slogan Make America Great Again actually.

Jason Johnson (99:16)

Resonates and talk just a little bit as we wrap up about Barack Obama and whether or not, you know, for a lot of the country, Barack Obama's election actually actually increase their optimism. It made people feel that the country could actually move forward. Let's probably part six. I think that's where he answers that question. This is C7 domestics, specifically in the Obama era.

JD Vance (99:36)

Yeah. Well, I think that there's a growing sense that the elites of our political and financial world are just really unlike people like me. Right. They talk a certain way, they act a certain way, they have certain educational credentials that most people in my community don't have. So there's this growing sense of cultural chasm between the people who make it and the people who don't. And frankly, a lot of people that I grew up around are wondering if they're on the wrong side of that line and if they're ever going to be able to join the good side again.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (100:02)

Yeah.

Jason Johnson (100:03)

Well, it is a fascinating book. This is the book. It is Hillbilly Elegy, A memoir of family and culture and crowd giving them a little bly at the end. Thank you to MJ Bird. Welcome to Team tjrs. Those you you saw that he was a different person. But wait, there's more. I've got three more little quick clips I want to play you because at the time before he got trumped and turned into maga, remember this is a guy who texted a friend, I think his former roommate, that he thought Trump might be Hitler. He called him a kind of heroin for white working class people, that he was a form of heroin. And what he's saying in that interview with me when we were on AM Joy is that white working class people who had this expectation that their lives would be better than their parents and then that expectation is not met, they tend to get conspiratorial and blame things like affirmative action. And they tend to have this sort of attitude that the elites, the Barack Obamas of the world don't care about them and are hostile to them. And so they sort of lean into that hostility rather than figuring out how to get out the way he did, he tease that out even more. That was a fairly brief interview that we did. Then he did a TED Talk. I want you guys to listen to a couple of clips from his TED Talk where he got deeper into. It's like a 14 minute TED talk. You can find it that's still available online. This is C8, Jason. This is part one of the TED Talk. And then he's going to get into affirmative action more directly. Here's JD's Ted Talk. This is C8.

JD Vance (101:27)

Outward Appearances. I'm a cultural outsider. I didn't come from the elites. I didn't come from the Northeast or from San Francisco. I came From a southern Ohio steel town. And it's a town that's really struggling in a lot of ways. Ways that are indicative of the broader struggles of America's working class. Heroin has moved in, killing a lot of people. People I know. Family violence, domestic violence and divorce have torn apart families. And there's a very unique sense of pessimism that's moved in. Think about rising mortality rates in these communities and recognize that for a lot of these folks, the problems that they're seeing are actually causing rising death rates in their own communities. So there's a very real sense of struggle.

Joy Reid (102:11)

Now.

JD Vance (102:12)

I had a very front row seat to that struggle. My family has been part of that struggle for a very long time. I come from a family that doesn't have a whole lot of money. The addiction that plagued my community also plagued my family. And even sadly, my own mom. There were a lot of problems that I saw in my own family. Problems caused sometimes by lack of money, problems caused sometimes by lack of access to resources and social capital that really affected my life.

Jason Johnson (102:44)

Okay, we'll leave it there.

JD Vance (102:45)

If you had looked at my life.

Jason Johnson (102:46)

When I was 14, he said, so even though you was a crack fiend, mama, you always was a black queen, mama. Right? I mean, he. So hold on a second. He sounds like he could be like a regular guy that you could probably relate to. Right. Seem kind of relatable. Here's C9. Here's part two of that conversation.

JD Vance (103:07)

Is that upward mobility isn't as high as we'd like it to be in this country. And interestingly, it's very geographically distributed. So take Utah for instance. In Utah, a poor kid is actually doing okay. Very likely to live their share and their part in the American dream. But if you think of where I'm from in the south and Appalachia and southern Ohio, it's very unlikely that kids like that will rise. The American dream in those parts of the country is in a very real sense, just a dream. So why is that happening? So one reason is obviously economic or structural. So you think of these areas, they're beset by these terrible economic trends built around industries like coal and steel that make it harder for folks to get ahead. Certainly one problem. There's also the problem of brain drain where the really talented people, because they can't find high skill work at home, end up moving elsewhere. So they don't build a business or non profit where they're from, they end up going elsewhere and taking their talents with them. There are failing schools in a lot of These communities failing to give kids the educational leg up that really makes it possible for kids to have opportunities later in life. These things are all important. I don't mean to discount these structural barriers, but when I look back at my life and at my community, something else was going on. Something else mattered. It's difficult to quantify, but it was no less real. So for starters, there was a very real sense of hopelessness in the community that I grew up in. There was a sense that kids had that their choices didn't matter. No matter what happened, no matter how hard they worked, no matter how hard they tried to get ahead, nothing good would happen.

Jason Johnson (104:51)

But for his community, that ought to be addressed, right? Maybe not for black people or people like his wife's family, immigrants, they shouldn't have that addressed. But let me let you listen to. This is the last part I'm going to play you. This is part three in which he talks about something that he and I talked about too, which is affirmative action.

JD Vance (105:09)

That's a tough feeling to grow up around. That's a tough mindset to penetrate, and it leads sometimes to very conspiratorial places. So let's just take one political issue that's pretty hot, affirmative action. So depending on your politics, you might think that affirmative action is either a wise or an unwise way to promote diversity in the workplace or the classroom. But if you grow up in an area like this, you see affirmative action as a tool to hold people like you back. That's especially true if you're a member of the white working class. You see it as something that isn't just about good or bad policy. You see it as something that's actively conspiring, where people with political and financial power are working against you. And there are a lot of ways that you see that conspiracy against you perceived real, but it's there and it warps expectations. So if you think about what do you do when you grow up in that world, you can respond in a couple ways. One, you can say, I'm not going to work hard, because no matter how hard I work, it's not going to matter. Another thing you might do is say, well, I'm not going to go after the traditional markers of success like a university education or prestigious job, because the people who care about those things are unlike me. They're never going to let me in. When I got admitted to Yale, a family member asked me if I had pretended to be a liberal to get it by the admissions committee. Seriously. And it's obviously not the case that there was a liberal box to check on the application. But it speaks to the very real insecurity in these places that you have to pretend to be somebody you're not to get past these various social barriers.

Jason Johnson (106:48)

And he got in past those social barriers because of where he's from, because being from Appalachian, being poor, he goes on to say he went back and told that friend, this was the first time being poor ever worked for me. Because he knew back then and he knows now that being a poor kid from Appalachia is what made him attractive to Yale Law School. Because they looked at his resume and said, here's a poor kid from Appalachia who went into the Marines, was a journalist in the Marines. He was in the journalist corps in the Marines. And then he comes out and this is somebody that maybe we can do something with, maybe we can work with him. That is affirmative action. JD so what I'm going to do is give you some non trolling advice, since you gave me advice. Go back to being that guy, because that guy was actually electable. That guy actually was showing empathy for other people and seeming to understand, even in this interview with me, that people across communities have the exact same challenges that you were talking about growing up with. That guy actually understood what the rest of Americans who are not in your community, who don't look like you, who didn't come from your background, who maybe don't have the same religious faith as you, who aren't the same color, they're going through that too. My guy, you're not the only community where there's poverty and want and struggle. My guy, there are lots of people struggling, too. And now you, you have put yourself in a position to hurt them. A guy like that, that we just heard there would not be lying about his own constituents in Ohio and say that the Haitian immigrants in Ohio were eating cats and dogs and try to get them death threats and delivering death threats to them. That guy that was in that video, in the interview with me would never team up with Donald Trump because he said, and I quote, that that guy might be Hitler. That guy wouldn't sign up to be the Himmler to his Hitler because that guy actually understood the complexities of how want and need and struggle and a feeling like no matter what you do, no matter how hard you work, you're never going to get anywhere because this country is already just rigged against you. That guy actually understood that. But what happened to that guy? That guy caught a break that most Americans will never catch. Just like Charlie Kirk got Scooped up by a wealthy man who was willing to put $4 million into his bank account if he would but take up the cause of right wing, zero taxes for billionaires, zero regulation for the gutting the earth, gutting fossil fuel industries. If he would but take up that sword, that man would put $4 million in his bank account and then say that he founded Turning Point USA and create and make him an icon such that Florida is saying he should have a street named after him in every university. But a rich man did that by scooping Charlie Kirk up and turning him into what he became. But really that only kicked in when he went after race and he went after women and he went after LGBTQ people and he became nasty and horrible and toxic. That's when it kicked in. Because then he had an audience that found that kind of hot. Same thing with J.D. vance. You let Peter Teal scoop up the guy that we just saw in those clips that actually had some empathy for other people, even though in the book he kind of dissed them a little bit, were like, what's wrong with these people? But you showed, I think in the book, when they read it, not listening to your TED Talk, but listening to you, like on my show, etc, they saw in you somebody willing to play ball. And Peter Thiel scooped you up, put $15 million in your bank account, created. He's the only person you've ever worked for. The job you had when you were talking about you have a job that was for Peter Thiel. You were suddenly in the high heeled investment world. Suddenly you knew what Chardonnay was. You knew what kind of wine to order. They walked you around, they showed you the wealth, they showed you the possibilities. The love of money is the root of all evil. They showed you, they gave you some Ozempic. They said, let's slim down, let's get you, let's put a beard on you, let's give you a makeover. We want to pop some of these Ozempic into you and turn you into the himler to the man you called Hitler. And you went along with it, you went along with it. Not to lift your community, not to lift up Appalachian people, because Trump isn't lifting up those people that you talked about. He's destroying them. And you're willing to let them, to let him do that to your people for the love of money and the love of power. You suddenly decided there was something more important than lifting up those people that you describe when, when you interview with me and the people that you described in Your TED Talk, suddenly you don't give a shit about those people because you see power. You see the brass ring. You see the ring of power and you want it. And you let Peter Thiel purchase you for whatever $15 million made you a United States Senator and suddenly you a whole new guy. It's interesting, right? You're a whole new guy. So my untrolling Advice to you, J.D. vance, go back to being that guy. That guy was. You could work with that guy. You could work with that guy. But the guy you are now, F him. As I said before, let me now play a couple moments of joy. I know we're way over time. We earlier today talked to Native Land Pod. We combined with them. We did a joint get together and we got together and Jason, let's just play a couple of clips from it. I want to start by the first piece. And this is called Bacariance. It is NLP Bakari Yante because Bakari Sellers is the new. Bring in Bakari Sellers. Bakari, welcome. Jason, can we get some applause from Bakari Sellers, please? Thank you very much, Jason, we appreciate you. Bakari, welcome. And if you are the Beyonce of this quad, where your fan at?

Joy Reid (112:01)

So listen, I'm happy to be here anytime, anytime, anytime your friends are in need of assistance, help any of those things. Just a little, a little shot, a little confidence boost. You want to be there for them. And so I think my addition is a little late, you know, and so I don't know about the first 99.

Jason Johnson (112:18)

Episodes, but the next 99 we know.

Joy Reid (112:20)

Are going to basically take us to a level of success. This show has always been an amazing show. And so hopefully my addition is just a little accoutrement that's French with something special on the side.

Governor J.B. Pritzker (112:31)

Yes.

Jason Johnson (112:34)

Is it going to be more fun fighting with the Native Land Pod team or with Scott Jennings? It's a different type of fun.

Joy Reid (112:42)

I like I because we were just talking about that this morning. I think a lot of times you have to be there to push back. And I think that they're different spaces for different times. And I think that our audience here are looking for those type of intellectual debates to make them better about those things that are happening. And you know, when I go on.

Jason Johnson (112:58)

Tv, I tell people all the time.

Joy Reid (112:59)

I'm not trying to change Scott's opinion. I'm not trying to change the person who I'm on TV's opinion. I'm actually trying to give the listener just a little nugget about how I view my truth to be in that present moment, I think here is very reassuring. It's nurturing. It's a nurturing environment. But I think that platforms like this, although different, are equally as necessary for the moment that we're in.

Jason Johnson (113:18)

Amen.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (113:19)

Amen.

Jason Johnson (113:19)

Amen. All right, I want to let the chat know. All right, let's play one more. Let's play one more. Because we're in our joyful moment. We're coming to the end. Y' all come to the end. We're going to play their theme songs. I asked them what would be the theme songs that each of them would pick. And I think we have a little bit of this. You guys had to think of a theme. Theme song from popular music for the native land pod in its new era. It's next one hundred and one thousand million episodes. What would be the theme song? And we're gonna go ladies first. I'm gonna start with you, Tiffany. What would be the song which you would say is this is our theme song. One moment in time by Whitney Houston. That's what I'm dreaming about. Give me one moment in time when I'm all that I thought I could be. I think that is the plight of black folks in this country, and that.

Reporter/Interviewer (114:03)

Certainly crystallizes the very heartbreaking moment we're in right now.

Joy Reid (114:06)

And if we needed to clean up on a Sunday, that's a great amen.

Jason Johnson (114:11)

Great.

Joy Reid (114:12)

So have your son.

Jason Johnson (114:13)

My mic is popping. Angela Rye, what song would you pick as the theme for the native lamp pod?

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (114:18)

My theme song would be by the.

Reporter/Interviewer (114:21)

Pulitzer prize winning hip hop artist Kendrick Lamar.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (114:24)

Squabble up fighting right now.

Jason Johnson (114:26)

And I'm not talking about amongst us.

Reporter/Interviewer (114:27)

But I think that we are soldiers in the army of the Lord and.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (114:32)

We ready to squabble up. We never. We about.

Reporter/Interviewer (114:34)

About to just bend over and take it.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (114:36)

We gonna fight.

Jason Johnson (114:37)

Amen. Amen. Amen. Andrew Gillum, what will be your theme song? You know, I don't know the names of songs. I just dance to them.

Joy Reid (114:44)

Dance is a loose term.

Jason Johnson (114:47)

We see the dynamic. I'm here for it. Yes. Bring it. Go ahead, Andrew. Better than a song.

Joy Reid (114:55)

I don't know.

Reporter/Interviewer (114:56)

The theme for me is like this too shall pass.

Jason Johnson (115:02)

That's it. They don't. Somebody in the chat said they don't really care about us. TLP creation said that would be your theme song. It was a lot of fun. We had a great time. Native land pod, you can find it wherever you get your doubt, wherever you get your podcast. You can find them at native land pod on the. On YouTube. You can find them on Subset. They have a brand new substack. Just go on Substack. Look for Native Land Pod on substack. They are everywhere. They're obviously on social media as well. But please follow Native Land Pod and please follow us too. That's gonna be our moment of joy because we love those guys. They are allies of this show. They are friends of the show. We adore and love them and we wish them all the best. And for those of you who are saying that you guys believe that the version of J.D. vance that I played when he was on with me and during his TED Talk is the fake version and the current version of the real version, that could be true, too. I have no evidence. I don't know that. I don't know that man. I don't know her. I don't know that man at all. I only know what I have seen. And I only know the person I interviewed. And I only know that in the past, he at least posed as a very, very different person than he is now. And what I think you have to fear is somebody who would morph into evil, who would take evil oic in exchange for power. That's the scariest person in the world. Somebody who can go from being an empathetic person that cares about the poor and cares about his people to somebody don't give a damn about his people. Because power is insight. That is the scariest kind of person at all. So as bad as Trump is with his little dementia brain, JD Vance might be worse in certain ways. So thank you all very much for tuning in. Appreciate you. We're going to play the music because guess what, we going to see you after you like and subscribe and share. Then we're going to see you on the next Enjoy Read show. That was your moment of joy. Bye.

Congresswoman Joyce Beatty (116:45)

Okay.

Joy Reid (116:50)

Yeah.