The Crisis of Democracy in America ft. Michael Wolff | The Joy Reid Show

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Crisis of Democracy in America ft. Michael Wolff | The Joy Reid Show

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Joy Reid Show
• Host: Joy-Ann Reid
• Description: A daily dose of Joy-Ann Reid's takes and analysis of the news, politics, and culture. If it's hot and happening, and matters to you, it's here.
• Episode: The Crisis of Democracy in America ft. Michael Wolff
• Release Date: June 13, 2025

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Introduction and Overview

[00:12] Joy Reid:
Joy-Ann Reid opens the episode by acknowledging a tumultuous week marked by "Friday the 13th." She previews the evening's topics, which include:

• Interview with Michael Wolff: Author of "All or Nothing," discussing Donald Trump's latest maneuvers and his book revelations.
• Interview with Major General Paul Eaton: Senior advisor to Vote Vets, addressing the militarization of politics exemplified by Trump's military parade.
• Interview with Dean Obeidallah: Host of his own show, discussing the potential for World War III following Israel's actions in Iran and the ensuing tensions.

Joy emphasizes skipping non-content segments like advertisements and intros to focus on the critical discussions of the week.

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Interview with Michael Wolff: The Crisis of Democracy in America

Guest: Michael Wolff, Author of "All or Nothing"
Duration: Approximately [04:47] to [30:47]

Trump’s Political Maneuvers and Election Denial

[05:21] Michael Wolff:
Wolff challenges the notion that Trump lost touch with reality post-2020 election, asserting, “I think that he was absolutely a true believer. That is to say, he was delusional.”

Joy probes the paradox of Trump’s self-image versus his public actions, highlighting how Trump continues to present himself as the legitimate president despite widespread acknowledgment of his electoral loss.

Relationship with Jeffrey Epstein

[16:32] Joy Reid:
Joy shifts the conversation to Trump’s connections with Jeffrey Epstein, prompting Wolff to elaborate on their "very, very close relationship."

[16:49] Michael Wolff:
Wolff details their association, stating, “How else could Jeffrey Epstein’s close relationship with Donald Trump have allowed for such disturbing activities to go unchecked?”

He emphasizes the lack of repercussions for Trump, unlike others associated with Epstein, suggesting a unique immunity in Trump's political sphere.

Trump’s Affinity for South Africans and Figures Like Elon Musk

[23:26] Joy Reid:
Joy questions Trump's relationships with figures like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, and whether Trump genuinely believes in conspiracy theories like white genocide.

[25:26] Michael Wolff:
Wolff explains, “Donald Trump's affinity to anything is pretty problematic. He has no affinity to anything but himself and the attention he receives.”

He attributes Trump’s alliances to transactional motives, primarily financial gains and personal enrichment.

Future of the Republican Party Post-Trump

[26:32] Joy Reid:
Joy raises concerns about the sustainability of the GOP without Trump, questioning what happens when his influence wanes.

[26:48] Michael Wolff:
Wolff predicts turmoil within the Republican Party, stating, “Donald Trump is not replaceable. No one is going to come along and be the next Donald Trump.”

He foresees a "real dramatic and interesting tailspin" for Republicans once Trump’s dominance diminishes, potentially leading to a Democratic victory in future elections.

Closing Thoughts from Michael Wolff

[30:38] Joy Reid:
Joy wraps up the interview by appreciating Wolff's insights and encourages listeners to read his book, "All or Nothing," to gain a deeper understanding of Trump's psyche.

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Interview with Major General Paul Eaton: Military Parade and Civil-Military Relations

Guest: Major General Paul Eaton, Senior Advisor to Vote Vets
Duration: Approximately [32:27] to [48:07]

Militarization and the Parade

[33:23] Joy Reid:
Joy connects Trump's military parade to broader issues, asking about the implications of displaying tanks and military hardware in American cities.

[34:03] Paul Eaton:
Eaton highlights the dangers of such displays: “Having tanks in the streets sends a very bad image for the United States military and undermines democracy.”

He draws parallels to historical instances like the Baltimore uprising, emphasizing that the current situation in Los Angeles is unprecedented in its militarization.

Kristi Noem’s Statements and Regime Change

[38:00] Paul Eaton:
Eaton criticizes Kristi Noem’s remarks about using the military for regime change in California, stating, “This is a demonstration of a failure to understand the Constitution and to support and defend the Constitution.”

He underscores the constitutional boundaries that are being overstepped, posing a significant threat to civil-military relations.

Renaming Military Ships and Erasure of History

[43:30] Joy Reid:
Joy addresses recent efforts to rename military ships, suspecting an agenda to create a less diverse and more ideologically uniform military.

[43:30] Paul Eaton:
Eaton condemns these actions as “a gross display of petty approach to erase part of the United States history,” arguing that it undermines the military’s legacy of integration and diversity.

Impacts on the Military and Democracy

[45:13] Paul Eaton:
Eaton expresses disbelief at the lack of judicial intervention against these actions, stating, “They are attacking the absolute nature and the spine of the United States military.”

He warns that such politicization could erode the military's effectiveness and its role as a protector of democracy.

Conclusion of the Interview

[48:07] Joy Reid:
Joy concludes by wishing the U.S. Army a happy 250th birthday, while affirming that the military stands above the current administration's missteps.

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Interview with Dean Obeidallah: Trump’s Actions and Potential World War III

Guest: Dean Obeidallah, Host of the Dean Obeidallah Show
Duration: Approximately [49:20] to [68:54]

Trump’s Birthday Parade and No Kings Day

[50:15] Dean Obeidallah:
Dean critiques Trump’s “No Kings Day” parade, paralleling it with historical fascist rallies. He states, “He's doing troops and tanks in the street... totally from the playbooks of autocrats and tyrants.”

[55:41] Joy Reid:
Joy labels the MAGA movement as fascist, highlighting the violent undercurrents and the media's role in perpetuating fear.

Media’s Role and Public Perception

[57:20] Dean Obeidallah:
Dean criticizes mainstream media for misrepresenting protests in Los Angeles, arguing, “The actual experience of being in LA was the opposite of what the media was reporting.”

He accuses the media of aiding Trump by magnifying isolated violent incidents to create a narrative of widespread unrest.

Trump’s Handling of International Conflicts

[60:06] Dean Obeidallah:
The conversation shifts to international tensions, particularly Trump’s involvement in Middle Eastern conflicts. Dean questions Marco Rubio's statements and criticizes Trump's handling of the situation, saying, “He is an abject failure at everything he has touched.”

Potential for World War III

[64:02] Joy Reid:
Joy discusses the potential escalation into World War III due to Israel’s actions against Iran, emphasizing the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. She remarks, “Only now they're going to starve with no one paying attention.”

Dean reinforces the dangers of continued militarization and Trump's aggressive foreign policies, warning of catastrophic consequences.

Who Won the Week?

[67:19] Joy Reid:
Adhering to a show tradition, Joy asks Dean who won the week. Dean humorously credits Trump’s organizers for dominating media narratives but Joy offers her perspective.

[68:11] Joy Reid:
Joy declares Wondochi, a talented hip-hop artist, as her pick for "Who Won the Week" for using her platform to speak truthfully about America's fascistic tendencies and horrors.

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Closing Remarks

Joy wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude to her guests and urging listeners to engage with the show's content, subscribe, and participate in discussions. She previews upcoming live shows featuring collaborations with prominent journalists like Don Lemon and Jim Acosta, aiming to unify diverse media voices in combating misinformation and fostering informed discourse.

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Notable Quotes

• Michael Wolff [05:21]:
  “I think that he was absolutely a true believer. That is to say, he was delusional.”

• Paul Eaton [34:03]:
  “Having tanks in the streets sends a very bad image for the United States military and undermines democracy.”

• Dean Obeidallah [50:15]:
  “He's doing troops and tanks in the street... totally from the playbooks of autocrats and tyrants.”

• Michael Wolff [25:26]:
  “Donald Trump is not replaceable. No one is going to come along and be the next Donald Trump.”

• Joy Reid [57:20]:
  “The actual experience of being in LA was the opposite of what the media was reporting.”

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Conclusion

This episode of "The Joy Reid Show" delves deep into the troubling trends undermining American democracy, focusing on Donald Trump's persistent authoritarian tactics, the militarization of domestic politics, and the media's role in shaping public perception. Through insightful interviews with experts like Michael Wolff and Major General Paul Eaton, Joy-Ann Reid provides a critical analysis of the current political climate, emphasizing the urgent need to address these democratic crises.

Listeners are encouraged to stay informed, engage in meaningful discussions, and support initiatives that uphold democratic values and civil liberties.

Transcript

[Joy Reid]

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Joy Reid Show. It has been a week, to put it mildly. It's also Friday the 13th and so of course it has been Friday the 13 all day. So thank you all for your patience. We are going to go live next week, but this week we are just happy to be chilling with you. So thank you all for, for being here on tonight. Now, we have some really, really great interviews coming up on this show, including Michael Wolf who has all the tea, all the tea on Donald Trump and he spills it in his latest book. Here's the book right now. It's called all or Nothing. But also on this show we've got Major General Paul Eaton of Vote Vets. He's going to talk about that military parade that our would be dictator was throwing for his birthday. Happy birthday not. And also my pal Dean Obadala will be here to talk possible World War III after Israel bombed Iran's nuclear facilities and Iran apparently struck back. So we'll talk about that as well. Plus the ongoing horrors in Palestine and all the Trump shenanigans. And Dean will also tell us who won the week, as will yours truly. And be sure to weigh in with your votes on who won the week in the comments. We would love to hear your votes on who won the week and if you haven't subscribed, why not? Because you might as well. So do it now. Do it now. But before we get to all of that, in case you've been asleep or in exile in Portugal, as well you should be, or really just fan dancing and not paying attention, which is probably best for your mental health, please enjoy this quick two minute recap of the week. That was adding to concerns over President.

[Donald Trump]

Trump's deployment of troops to Los Angeles.

[Joy Reid]

This week were his remarks at Fort Bragg last night. The President spoke to a crowd that.

[Michael Wolff]

Was reportedly hand picked for a political point of view.

[Joy Reid]

He delivered highly partisan remarks and sold MAGA merchandise on the US Base.

[Donald Trump]

Generations of army heroes did not shed their blood on distant shores only to watch our country be destroyed by invasion and third world lawlessness here at home. Like is happening in California. As commander in chief, I will not let that happen. It's never going to happen. Very simply, we will liberate Los Angeles and make it free, clean and safe again. It's happening very quickly.

[Michael Wolff]

Just tell me about his intelligence with respect to real estate deals.

[Paul Eaton]

He's a salesman.

[Donald Trump]

He knows real estate really well.

[Paul Eaton]

Anything else but that?

[Joy Reid]

We are not going away. We are staying here to liberate the city from the socialist and the burdensome leadership that this governor and that this.

[Michael Wolff]

Mayor have placed on this country and, and what they have tried to insert into this city.

[Joy Reid]

I'm Senator Alex.

[Paul Eaton]

I have questions for the secretary.

[Joy Reid]

Here's behind your back.

[Michael Wolff]

Hands on your back.

[Paul Eaton]

If you don't.

[Joy Reid]

My hands.

[Paul Eaton]

Go ahead.

[Michael Wolff]

Just yesterday, we filed a legal challenge to Donald Trump's reckless deployment of American troops to a major American city. If some of us could be snatched off the streets without a warrant, based only on suspicion or skin color, then none of us are safe.

[Joy Reid]

Paging Jake Tapper. You might want to get on that whole Trump tripping up the stairs thing. You know, he is looking kind of old and feeble. And by the way, Rubio also tripped. He tripped, too. But that was probably really just his Cuban ancestors paying him back for trying to deport El Funky and them. But on this, no King's Day Eve, I feel it appropriate to dig deeper into the man who would be America's king with somebody who truly knows him, namely author Michael Wolff. Michael Wolff, welcome to the show. I appreciate you being here. You have written four books, I believe, about Donald Trump, this one being the latest, all or Nothing. And I just wanna get, as somebody who has essentially been a biographer of Donald Trump multiple times over the course of his political career, what do you make of the fact that he, he managed to get back into office after all that happened in his first term?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I'd say he is some sort.

[Paul Eaton]

Of.

[Michael Wolff]

Genius, or maybe we should say idiot savant.

[Joy Reid]

You write about in all or Nothing, you talk about the fact that after he lost the election and, you know, from the, you know, 2021 on, he just actually continued to, in his mind, be the president. He just would not entertain the thought of losing. Even though there's been reporting that he knew he lost, that he talked about being beaten by Joe Biden. So there's that duality of him pretending.

[Michael Wolff]

I would somewhat disagree with that. I mean, if there were glimpses within him that he might have lost, they were really fleeting glimpses. And I have to say this, and having spent quite a number of hours talking with him, I think that he was absolutely a true believer. That is to say, he was delusional. And this despite the fact that virtually everyone around him, his most trusted aides, his family, very clearly knew and accepted that he had lost, but he did not. And actually then he managed to, to kind of push out all those other people and then surround him with people who were willing to, willing to say what he wanted to hear, which is that it was stolen from you, Mr. President. And then, then it became clear that anyone who wanted a relationship with him, and that includes all members of Congress and the Republican Party, if you wanted a relationship with him, you also had to say what he wanted to hear, which is that the election was stolen, Mr. President.

[Joy Reid]

And it's gotten so bad that in places like Oklahoma, they're thinking about adding that to the curriculum, teaching children that the election in 2020 was stolen. You know, I've written, I've written, I've written one Trump book, right? But, but just my interviews with people. It's never, I've never had anybody tell me that, you know, that he's brilliant other than, you know, real estate, maybe. And he, he put. Sunk his own, you know.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, we can go further. I mean, Trump, Trump is a moron. And, and I say this in, as, in as precise and, and literal a way as possible. I mean, what he does and has done for the entirety of his career is block information he does not want to know. And one of the ways that he, he does this is he keeps talking all the time. I, I mean, I've never seen anything like this. It is really kind of spectacular. And he just doesn't stop. And no one can get a word in edgewise, so no one can tell him anything. So he's purposefully set out to build this world in which no new facts, no new information get into this world except the information that he wants. And it's not even information that he wants. It's information that he himself comes to, comes to believe. So it's a kind of mind inside the mind of Donald Trump that.

[Paul Eaton]

I.

[Michael Wolff]

Don'T think few of us have ever encountered before.

[Joy Reid]

Then how does he get so many people, I mean, millions of people, as well as an entire political party, to take the knee to his delusions.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, let's go back. That's why I say he's a kind of a genius or, or idiot savant. And let's remember that he spent. He was the star of a top rated reality television show for 14 years. That's an extraordinary training ground, and it turns out to be an extraordinary training ground for a politician. He knows how to speak to the interests, even the subconscious interests of the audience. He knows how to hold the audience, audience's attention. He knows what makes compelling drama. And the answer to that, and as in all reality shows, is conflict. You have to have conflict constantly. You will lose people's attention if you don't have conflict, if you don't if it's not. If you don't manufacture con. Conflict constantly. And that is what he has done since 2015. Coming down the stair, the, the, the stairs at the escalator at Trump Tower, it conflict after conflict after conflict. And it doesn't, the substance of the conflict doesn't matter because the next conflict will make the prior conflict functionally irrelevant. It's just constantly new conflict. So that turns out to be, to be the method, the secret.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. I mean, by the way, I think that hits on my theory that the media's only true biases are change and conflict. They're biased toward those two things. Let's talk about that in the sense of what he's doing now. You're seeing the military, the Trump regime, essentially occupy Los Angeles. Tristy Noem said, we're staying until there is essentially regime change, until the quote, unquote socialists who are leading Los Angeles and California are removed. He's using the military in ways no president has done. Do you believe that Donald Trump is a fascist?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, let me, let me go back and I, I can, I, I can maybe provide some context here. As soon as he got into the White House in 2017, he, he started to talk about my troops, my military. And then he started to complain that the military cost so much, but we got so little use out of it. Why didn't we use it for more things? So he, here's, here's a, a man totally without any appreciation of where the military fits in in a democracy, of the tension between the military and civilian authority, between force and process. I mean, he knows nothing about that, has thought nothing about this. So all he sees is a very expensive several million people who are not being, who are not, who are not being used on a daily basis. So it suddenly became, okay, what can we do? And he was dissuaded on many occasions during the first administration from actually using the military in that way. This time around, there are fewer people to dissuade him. And this seemed like, this seemed made for the reality television show. I don't like California. Let's send in the troops. I don't like Gavin Newsom. He'll be a good enemy to have. And also the headlines last week were all about Elon Musk and the Epstein Bomb. And let's change those headlines. How do we do that? Well, let's invade California. But having said that, you know, Donald Trump, what he does, the actions he takes exist in the moment and then change in the next moment. When there are, when there are, there are new actions. So to kind of characterize him as a fascist, if you will, or as an authoritarian is not, is probably off target because whatever he does in, whatever he does in which you might say, oh, these are authoritarian things, then he's going to do something else. And, and we're going to forget about this la. You know, remember when the troops went to la, we will be saying several weeks from now as now we almost say, oh, remember that, that dust up with Elon Musk. So in other words, we are in very, very new territory. And one of the problems for the media is that they don't know how to describe it. They don't know how to characterize it. They don't functionally know what they're talking about when they talk about Donald Trump.

[Joy Reid]

I cannot disagree. I mean, and to go to the Elon thing for a moment, I never bought into it being real. And to be honest with you, I don't think the relationship was ever real. It's all transactional. What do you make of this supposed fight between. They have the same interest. They both want to, you know, hurt the poor and cut Elon's tax.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I don't, I don't actually think that's, that's quite right. I think that, that, that Elon thought, I mean, Elon's interest is, has a very, very, very precise interest in this context. He believes that, that, that, that if you, if you, if you bring, if you bring technology to, to government, you can streamline management. So, you know, and that's what he set out to prove. He is, you know, he's sort of messianic and sort of, you know, very well. He is very focused on what, on what he believes he can accomplish. And remember, he has accomplished many, many things. So, so he had a discussion with, with Donald Trump. Trump wasn't listening to him. And Elon barely got a few words in, but he came away thinking, as many people do, oh, okay, he agrees with, with me. And on top of that, he's a moron. So I'm going to be able to come in, into the White House and I'm going to be able to be the smart guy. And that's what, that's, that's why Elon spent $250 million and that's why he came into the, into the White House. That's what, that's what he thought would happen once in the White House. Now, the truth is that Trump is a moron and he does, does you would by any measure need other people. But because he doesn't listen because he doesn't care, because it is functionally, singularly about him. You, you know, even if you're as focused and as smart as Elon, you're not going to get through. And you are going to become, to say the very least, frustrated and angry and uncomprehending. And I think that's what happened to, to, to Elon. And, and then Trump got. Gets resentful because. Or he gets, it's not even resentful. It's just a level of irritation that people are trying to tell him things he doesn't want to know. So therefore, the relationship breaks down. And I should add that the relationship with everyone and Donald Trump breaks down, that all of the people who came into the first White House left in disgrace or humiliation or were indicted 100%. It always ends in tears.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, but he did say some things that were intriguing. The Epstein files. You've interviewed Jeffrey Epstein did some extensive interviews with him for Fire and Fury. He declared himself to be Donald Trump's best friend. Do you believe Donald Trump is in the Epstein files? An extensive way that would.

[Michael Wolff]

I think the Epstein files is a metaphor, but that's. Donald Trump is in Jeffrey Epstein's life, incredibly, in a substantial way, probably more than any other singular person. They were joined at the hip. They were BFFs for the better part of a decade. They hunted women together, Hunt being the right word. They shared a girlfriend for a period. Trump Epstein helped Trump cheat on his taxes. I mean, this is a, this is, this was a very, very close relationship. Now, anyone else's close relationship with, or close relationship of any kind with Jeffrey Epstein has, Has tainted them, sometimes mortally tainted them. But somehow Donald Trump has gotten away with this. And around him, the feeling, the people around him, the feeling has always been that while he has gotten away with this, this could catch up with him at any time. I know in 2017, when Steve Bannon first met Jeffrey Epstein, the first thing Steve Bannon said to Jeffrey Epstein was, you were the only person I was afraid of during the 2016 campaign. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it, and they might not be as careful. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off terms apply.

[Joy Reid]

You know that one friend who somehow knows everything about money?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

Now imagine they live in your phone. Say hey to Experian, your big financial friend. It's the app that helps you check.

[Michael Wolff]

Your FICO score, find ways to save.

[Joy Reid]

And basically feel like a financial genius. And guess what? It's totally free. So go on, download the Experian app. Trust me, having a BFF like this is a total game changer. I mean, Donald Trump, you know, look, his history is what he did to E. Jean Carroll, and not just defaming her, but what he did to her in the first place. About 22 dozen women who've accused him of similar sort of lascivious predilections. I'll just put it that way. He's talked about maybe musing about maybe pardoning Diddy, which is weird. You know, he seems to think that he was somehow may be wrongly accused. He seems to have a, you know, proclivity for people like that. So do you believe as a journalist, having done a lot of biographical work on him, that he's done things with Jeffrey Epstein that if it came out, would even horrify MAGA people?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I'm not sure what would horrify MAGA people. And. And the only. I mean, what I specifically know is that Epstein had a series of photographs of Trump. They were in his safe. He would go to the safe, he would bring them out and treating them almost like playing cards. This was an amusing thing. Here were these dozen photographs with Trump with some of the Epstein women. Girls of indeterminate age, you know, but not your mother's age, so to speak. And. And I. And I specifically remember three of them there. Two in which girls. These. Some of these girls are sitting on Trump's lap and they are topless. And then another one in which Trump has a stain on the front of his pants, and the girls are pointing. Maybe three or four girls are pointing at this and laughing. And I assume those or it would be a reasonable assumption that those photographs were in Epstein's safe when the FBI raided Epstein's house after his arrest in 2019. Where are they now? I don't know.

[Joy Reid]

A lot of folks on these Internet streets have noted Bill Barr's father's connection to Jeffrey Epstein. They were associated with the same school, the school Jeffrey Epstein was a teacher at. And just there's been a lot of questions about Jeffrey Epstein's death. Do you have those questions?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I know those questions. I don't have an answer to those questions. I mean, it seems to me that. That it is almost impossible to believe that Epstein could have killed himself in the way he would have had to. As they say, he did kill himself, that he broke his own neck. I find that ludicrous. On the other hand, the idea if there was some kind of conspiracy or cover up that. That at least a half a dozen assistant US Attorneys and as many FBI agents that they would all keep quiet, which they would have to do, that also seems ludicrous. So the scenario for killing himself seems ludicrous. The scenario for someone murdering him also seems ridiculous.

[Joy Reid]

Would you expect his co conspirator, who's in prison now, to ever talk. Do you think she'd ever talk to you? Because everyone talks to you.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, you know, the, The Ghislaine thing is, I think, for my money, I think Ghislaine doesn't know all that much. The truth is that Ghislaine was out of the picture by, you know, 2004, as soon as his troubles began. I think. I think that was, you know, you know, that was. I mean, she. She got out of there.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

So I don't know.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. Let's talk about these South Africans. Donald Trump seems to be surrounded by these South Africans. Jeffrey Sachs, Elon Musk, and Peter Thiel, who has incredible power. Peter Thiel is the most probably underwritten about of the three in that his company, Palantir, may soon have the power to surveil every American. What is Donald Trump's affinity to these South Africans? And do you think he really does believe this white genocide nonsense?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, you know, I think his affinity. I mean, Donald Trump's affinity to anything is pretty problematic. He has no affinity to anything but himself and the attention he receives and, you know, I mean, possibly, and the money he might make and his, the affinity that he does have for these, These guys is a transactional. There's money to be made here. Affinity. At some point during the campaign, he was tired of doing these endless fundraisers, as all candidates and politicians have to do. And he said to a group of aides, why are we doing this? I don't have to do this anymore. I can get all the money I need from the crypto guys. So I think that in. I think that's his. His relationship with these, with these, These people. He suddenly sees them as an. As a. As a free source of money. Matter of fact, he has himself gotten into the crypto business. And so that's, that's the connection here, you know, South Africa. Yeah. You know, I mean, people tell him things about that. And you know, and he, and he's perfectly willing to, you know, apparently willing to agree to some preposterous ideas. But again, you know, how deep are those ideas? You know, surface, like all ideas, surface things.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, you know, you talked about the crypto thing and the money. This man is enriching himself. He and his family, his two adult sons and himself. No president has ever done anything even close to this. He is allegedly got about 3 billion in the bank so far. He was never a billionaire really in real life before he was president. Why do you suppose so many Republicans, journalists, everyone tolerates this self enrichment by an American president.

[Michael Wolff]

How far do you think? I think that's just the tip of the iceberg of what's being tolerated here. But the truth is, particularly people in the Republican Party and the Republican leadership is that they don't see any workaround to Donald Trump. Donald Trump controls the party. They are out of business, out of jobs, out of power, out of influence without Donald Trump. Therefore. Therefore it would require each of them to take a very lonely moral stand, not something all that popular in politics.

[Joy Reid]

And how does this end? Because at some point, everything ends. This cult cannot remain alive forever. Donald Trump will not remain alive forever. Eventually, this MAGA tyranny will pass. What happens to these Republicans when that's over? Do they just go back to pretending they're normal Reagan Republicans?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I mean, I think that it will be confused, it will be a difficult situation. And there. Donald Trump is not replaceable. No one is going to come along and be the next Donald Trump. Donald Trump is utterly unique. He's not like anyone you know or I know or anybody we know knows. And, and when he passes from this veil of tears, that, that will be an, that will be an empty space. I, I think the Republicans will go into, into a really dramatic and interesting tailspin. And so what they become, I don't know. I mean, they may just, just collapse. I mean, the whole MAGA movement basically doesn't know what it will, what it will be. I mean, Donald Trump, again, absolutely unique. Now, how long can he go on for, is the other question.

[Joy Reid]

Well, that is the question because for one thing, they're deporting their allies, the relatives of the Cuban Americans, Venezuelans, Haitian Americans, those who tend to lean toward the Republican Party. They're eviscerating them. They're devastating their own base with these tariffs, ruining them in many cases by cutting Medicaid. So Donald Trump is running as if he's never leaving office. And it doesn't matter if he destroys all of his supporters. So how long can this go on if the American hurt?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I think I can play this out. He will. I mean, Donald Trump, among his other attributes, it's important to remember he's self destructive. And that's a complicated thing because the self destruction, the self destructive element is one of the things that makes him so compelling. The train wreck, the train is going and it's going toward the wall. Why do we all watch this? Because we can't believe what he's, what he's doing. We can't believe that it's absent any, any apparent logic or even benefit to him. So he will lose. The midterm election will go poorly for him. There will be a Democratic Congress. At the very least, it will begin to investigate, possibly even impeach him again. And he will be the victim, a role which he plays very well and actually a role that he likes. So it won't be bad for him. He will be Donald Trump the martyr again. Now, the complication here is that he can't run again. No matter what Steve Bannon says or whatever, he's not going to run again, which means there will be another Republican in his stead. Now, that's a problem for Donald Trump, much greater problem than being investigated and being impeached. Because if another Republican becomes the president of the United States, there's, that's a, that just means a diminished role for Donald Trump, which he could never tolerate. So he will undermine whoever is the Republican candidate. The Democrats, therefore, will win in 2028. Donald Trump will return to Mar A Lago still the king of the Republican Party. And we will go through the same, the same Mar A Lago rigamarole that we went through last time. One of the things about Donald Trump, he just does again what he did before.

[Joy Reid]

It's exhausting. We appreciate you following it, Michael Wolf, so that we don't have to follow all the minutiae because you're doing it for us. Michael Wolff, thank you very much. Much appreciate your time.

[Michael Wolff]

Anytime.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, so that happened. And we appreciate Michael Wolff. Thank you so much for being here. And please read his book. It's called all or Nothing. It is, as I mentioned, his fourth book on Trump. So, so if you want to get all the way in Trump's head, you want to read Michael Wolf. Well, joining me now, we gotta, I want to move on to our next topic of conversation, and that is this, this parade that Donald Trump is throwing for himself for ostensibly the 250th birthday of the United States army, but really for his own birthday, let's just be honest, Donald Trump is throwing that party for himself. It's going to involve something like 7,000 troops. They have trucked in tanks and military vehicles from all over the country. They've had to put them on trucks because a lot of them don't even run. And also they're going to ruin the streets of D.C. we're talking about a $45 million expense that you're going to pay for. That's all on your dime. And it all is for Trump's self aggrandizement. So you're welcome for electing a guy who wants to be a monarch. Well, earlier today I had a conversation with Major General Paul Eaton. Not only was he one of the chief architects of the attempts to train Iraqi soldiers during the Iraq conflict, he is now a senior advisor to the great group Vote Vets, which deals with the aftermath of all that we dealt with for invading a country that had nothing to do with 9, 11. Major General Paul Eaton, one of my very favorite guests, talked to us about all the things and here is that interview. Check it out. Major General Paul Eaton, it is wonderful to see you even in these strange circumstances. So I just have to start out by asking you for your thoughts on this parade.

[Paul Eaton]

Joy, great to be with you again. And the parade is a symptom of a greater problem that a lot of us are calling a crisis in civil military relations. And this parade is a further politicization of the armed forces. But when you get back to the President's performance at Fort Bragg with 82nd Airborne, I'm assuming they're 82nd Airborne. They were wearing the crimson beret. That was the most appalling, the most egregious political event with soldiers encouraged to jeer. The fourth State encouraged to jeer, political officials. So with that as a scene setter, the parade and what's going on in Los Angeles are examples of a crisis in civil military relations.

[Joy Reid]

And let's talk about. Because you've put them all together. So let's put them all together. I mean, we've seen Donald Trump usurp the authority of the governor of California, who is the commander in chief of the California National Guard. Courts have now ruled against him, but it's on pause, obviously, because it's under appeal to saying he cannot do that. But he's using the military, threatening to put United States Marines on the ground in Los Angeles. We were just in Los Angeles. There's no reason to do that. Juxtapose that with the idea of having a parade to sort of show off military might while threatening maximum penalties or consequences for anyone who protests.

[Paul Eaton]

Sure, Joy. So let's just isolate the parade for a second. It is jarring for Americans to see tanks in the street. We've seen that before during the Martin Luther King assassination troubles that we endured. We have seen heavy equipment in the streets before. And it's not a good, it's not a good image for the United States military or for the United States juxtapose M1s in the streets of the Capitol and the use of military in an unnecessary approach to managing local violence. And when I say violence, we're talking about three or four hundred miscreants who are doing the wrong thing, while you have thousands of demonstrators doing the right thing. And the, the recent scene of police officers on their knees asking for calm and then in the arms of the demonstrators gives you a picture that the things that are going on in LA are, are not what some folks would have us believe. So tanks in the Capitol sending a message to demonstrators who are doing the right thing in la. This is not the democracy that we need to display for the United States and for the world.

[Joy Reid]

You know, the last time that I saw tanks in the streets of an American city, it was in Baltimore in response to the Freddie Gray uprisings and marches that were again, mainly peaceful. But there was just this incredible armada of militarized police. But they were police, these were civilian police departments that had been issued spare military ammunition, spare military vehicles. So there were still police in those inside of those really frightening looking tanks. But this is now actually the military itself on the streets of an American city. And we were just in la. There's no reason for them to be there. They're three blocks from those protesters. People are having brunch. What message do you think that this administration, Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump and Kristi Noem are trying to send?

[Paul Eaton]

This trio that you just mentioned, are looking to establish a militarized view of domestic policy. We've heavily militarized our foreign policy over the years at great misfortune. But this totalitarian approach to controlling populations with heavy military equipment is bad for democracy and it's bad as the leading democracy on this planet. And in the last five or six months, we've seen a terrific erosion of American prestige with our allies and with our adversaries. And this is this image of M1s, M2s, attack helicopters, just not a good image for, for our military.

[Joy Reid]

Kristi Noem, the Department of Homeland Security director has said and said just before the United States senator was tackled to the ground and dragged out of her press conference, she said, quote, we are not going away. We are going to be here until we liberate this city and state from the socialists that are governing it. From the governor to the mayor, she essentially said that the purpose of their presence of the dhs, DHS and military presence is essentially regime change. Have you ever heard an American official talk like that about an American city and an American state and local government?

[Paul Eaton]

Joy, this lady doesn't understand posse comitatus. She failed that exam while she was under question from our senators. She does not understand what she has just said. The last line of defense against people like Nome, like Hegseth and like the 47th president. This, this is a demonstration of a failure to understand the Constitution and to support and defend the Constitution. Our last line of defense. And it's interesting that this is happening in California are our governors and governor pushback against unauthorized or ill advised use of military force in their domain is the only thing that is going to help our courts, help our judges, help our judicial system push back against a rogue president and his ill advised group of advisors. We don't have Mark Milley. We don't have Mark.

[Joy Reid]

Millie, you ask yourself as a military man yourself, when you see that juxtaposition of the military being deployed for the first time in an American city since 1970, 65, when the occasion for that deployment was the Edmund Pettus Bridge march at which sheriffs were brutalizing John Lewis and other peaceful demonstrators. That used to be the reason that the National Guard would be activated in states. It was to protect students in Little Rock, Arkansas who are trying to go to school or to protect peaceful marchers in Alabama. Now this administration is saying no. The purpose is to do what they're considering riot control when there are no riots and to essentially control cities. And then you have the Department of Homeland Security saying no, actually the real reason is essentially regime change. Just yourself as a military man. Does this strike you as. Can you describe this as anything other than fascism? That's what Mark Milley said Donald Trump was. That's what John Kelly said Donald Trump was.

[Paul Eaton]

We are under the thumb right now of a fascist regime in the Trump administration. These people wanted the fight that is not happening in Los Angeles. They have done everything they can to escalate as opposed to de. Escalate the situation. They are creating a, a roadway, a ramp to imposition of the Insurrection act and that would ultimately open the door for Mr. Trump to allow DHS and to allow SECDEF to populate our cities with the armed forces of the United States. And again, our allies are appalled and our prestige is going down. This will cost us dearly in the near, in the short and in the long term.

[Joy Reid]

Do you fear that Pete Hegseth has already eroded the military enough? And you said there were, you know, military men jeering at the media to Trump's delight and at Trump's behest. Are you worried that Pete Hegseth has already eroded the military so much that we have to fear that members of the military will be willing to do what Trump wants and suppress the population, their own friends, neighbors and families, because he wants them to?

[Paul Eaton]

Mr. Hegseth is out of his league. He is, he is underwater right now. He is not respected in the Pentagon. And with respect to our senior leadership, when we went through Abu Ghraib and the disaster that that created for me personally in Iraq and for, for the collective US Military, a four star general felt compelled to write a letter. Abu Gharib Black site for the CIA enhanced interrogations. That's not the military approach to managing our prisoners. We are held and we hold ourselves to a higher standard. I expect the chairman of The Joint Chiefs, Mr. Kane, General Kane, and especially the Chief of Staff of the United States army to issue such a letter that what happened at Fort Bragg is not consistent with the good order and discipline of the armed forces of the United States. That we are held to a higher standard than the President of the United States is demonstrating today.

[Joy Reid]

And I asked you about Pete Hegseth because of course he is attempting to erase under his leadership just the memory of Jackie Robinson and Medgar Evers and women who've served in the military, women heroes, gay and lesbian people. They even got rid of the name Enola Gay because they thought it meant gay people, apparently off of the military websites. And now they're looking to rename ships, to rename the USS Harvey Milk, to rename the USS Medgar Evers, to essentially strip the names of black people, women, Latinos and gay people off of US Military ships. What do you make of that.

[Paul Eaton]

Joy? Again, we're dealing with civilians with an agenda. The agenda is a gender problem, a racial problem. And what we're seeing right now is a gross display of petty approach to erase part of the United States history that the military, and the military is your most integrated culture in the United States. We have been on the, on point for America for racial integration, for LGBTQ integration. We, we are on point to do the right thing for the population of the United States and to see the pettiness that's being applied, you know, down to the, down to the libraries in our military academies. I mean, when you have to remove the, the works of Karl Marx from, and Angelou from, from the libraries, you're going to get new officers who won't know the difference between a groundhog and a commie. I mean, this is, this is really atrocious work that they are doing, and it's going to be erased as soon as we can.

[Joy Reid]

I will note that they left in Mein Kampf, which leads me to wonder if the purpose of this erasure is to create a military that is less diverse, that is more ideologically uniform and racially uniform and uniform in terms of gender. Right. That they want to essentially make the army whiter, more male and more right wing. Does it, does that track for you?

[Paul Eaton]

It is a. It is so obvious that I'm stunned that our courts have not stepped in to ensure that this extraordinary military that we have, that demonstrates extraordinarily positive judgment every day in most complex situations. We have what we have because of the nature of the force, and they are attacking the absolute nature and the spine of the United States military.

[Joy Reid]

Let's bring us back to the parade to sort of close where we opened. You are obviously major general in the United States military, and obviously the military is beloved by you. I've interviewed you enough to know that. So for those who say, why not celebrate the Army's 250th birthday? And so what if that means also giving Donald Trump a birthday parade and spending 45 million, it's worth it in a trillion dollar Pentagon budget to spend $45 million to honor the United States Army. What would you say to someone who said that?

[Paul Eaton]

Well, all the parades that I was responsible for developing and executing over 33 years, I went to a minimalist approach and most of my peer group do the same thing. Very few moving parts, very few soldiers, and a whole lot of colors, flags to demonstrate the, the history of the armed forces of the United States. The Marine Corps birthday. Let's, let's talk about that. In Baghdad, we celebrated the Marine Corps birthday while I was there. And it involved a lovely dinner at every location where you had Marines. Sometimes it was a little less dignified than others because of, you know, it's tough to do it in a few foxholes, but it was still dignified and involved. A toast to the Marine Corps. The Navy. A toast to the Navy. And for the army, the 250th, I think it should have been a whole lot of unit colors out there. Each flag indicating between 3 and 600 men and women in the armed force. Tanks, a bad look. As Senator Rand Paul mentioned, tanks in the street. Just a bad look. There were simpler, cheaper, better ways to do this and a meaningful approach. To celebrate our birthday.

[Joy Reid]

Major General Paul Eaton is always a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here. And we do indeed wish the United States army A happy 250th birthday. And we do know that they are better than their commander in chief.

[Paul Eaton]

Thank you very much, Joy. Thank you very much. That's a very classy end. Thank you.

[Donald Trump]

Hablas espanol Spries to Joy.

[Michael Wolff]

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[Joy Reid]

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[Michael Wolff]

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[Joy Reid]

Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babel.com Spotify spelled B A B-B E L.com Spotify rules and restrictions may apply. Thank you. Thank you to Major general Paul Eaton, one of my absolute favorite guests. He doesn't have a great voice, too. I want him to, like record my voicemail and have it be like, good evening, you've reached Joy Reed. And have it be his soothing voice. So thank you so much. Well, joining me now because we're just going to keep this thing rolling because it is a Friday and we have so much to get to is my friend and pal Dean Obedalla, host of the eponymous Dean Obedalla show. We talked to him about all the things and here is that interview. Take it away. Joining me now is my friend and pal Dean Obeidallah, host of the eponymous Dean Obeidallah show on Sirius xm. Dean, how you doing?

[Donald Trump]

I'm Joy. I'm doing great. Congratulations on your new show. I'll follow you anywhere. Wherever we do, we do this on the street corner. I don't care. I'm there.

[Joy Reid]

It's just gonna be the two of us on the corner going, can you believe what Trump did today?

[Donald Trump]

If I didn't have a radio show, I would be annoying everyone in my apart apartment building on the elevator. I'd be like, don't get off the floor. Let's talk about Trump.

[Joy Reid]

They're like, I feel like we have shows so that we don't annoy other people.

[Donald Trump]

That's it. Well, it's because it's part of our passion, our DNA, to talk about these issues, because we're delusional enough to think that we can change things. And you've got to keep that delusion. Everyone has to remain delusional.

[Joy Reid]

I agree with that. I agree with that. So I don't even know where to begin. But let's start with the parade. Tomorrow there's going to be a Trump birthday parade. He's saying it's for the 250th birthday of the United States army, but we know he really wants it for his birthday. He's wanted it for a long time. And it's also no Kings Day as declared by the opposition. Your thoughts, Dean, on all of that?

[Donald Trump]

I pick no Kings Day, the winner. That's what I'm going to be doing and covering. And I think it's so important to get out there. Look, what's remarkable about Donald Trump is, like you, I've talked to so many experts on fascism and dictators, and they say in the modern era, people who want to become dictators, they work from within the system. It's not the old way with troops and tanks. Trump is doing troops and tanks in the street. I mean, he's got the old school and the new school. He's got internal with democracy and literally tanks in the street on Saturday and troops in the street in LA right now. And as Kristi Noem said, until they liberate California of the governor and mayor, they're staying there. So the no Kings thing is so vitally important to me. It is one of the most important. I think historians might look back on this day, depending how it goes, as the turning point in saving our republic. That's what I. At least I hope, right?

[Joy Reid]

And just we're gonna take a moment and we're gonna listen to Kristi Noem because it's important to note this, because this was Kristi Noem and what she was saying right before the senior senator from California, Alex Padilla, was arrested. Well, he wasn't arrested, was detained, handcuffed and shoved out of the building. So take a listen to that.

[Michael Wolff]

The Department of Homeland Security and the officers and the agencies and the departments and the military people that are working.

[Joy Reid]

On this operation will continue to sustain and increase our operations in this city. We are not going away. We are staying here to liberate the.

[Michael Wolff]

City from the socialist and the burdensome.

[Joy Reid]

Leaders, leadership that this governor and that.

[Michael Wolff]

This mayor have placed on this country and, and what they have tried to insert into this city.

[Joy Reid]

So I want to say thank you to every single person that has been able to do this. Also, I want to talk specifically to the rioters and to the politicians in Los Angeles.

[Michael Wolff]

I also want to talk about specifically.

[Joy Reid]

How many of our. So that was that video, Dean. And I think that juxtaposition is important because a lot of people are playing the senator getting tackled and dragged out of the room, but they're not playing what Kristi Noem was saying right before. And that is what she was right there before. She was saying, essentially, regime change in California or we're not leaving.

[Donald Trump]

Absolutely. And Senator Padilla in interviews last night and today said he was in that room for five or ten minutes just listening. He had permission to be there. He was meeting some officials. He was there escorted by National Guard troops.

[Joy Reid]

It was a federal building. It's literally the federal building in Los Angeles.

[Donald Trump]

So he's watching and he's being quiet. And when she says we are going to remain until we liberate, that's the term she used, liberate California of the governor and the mayor. That's when he spoke out and he said interviews. I had to say something then liberation. We know Vladimir Putin used that to say his attack on Ukraine, liberate them from the Nazis, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney. We're going to liberate Iraq. It's going to be Operation Iraqi Freedom, which seems so laughable now, but that's what they called it, Operation Iraqi Freedom. That's what regime change. That's how you do it. You're liberating the people. They're going to liberate the people of California from their elected officials. And people should not overlook this. A lot of the corporate media, which sucks, has ignored that part of the conversation. She is telling you, the Trump regime always tells us what they want to do. They're not subtle. They're saying, you either surrender or we're going to have regime change. And if he could put in a pro Trump puppet, just like Putin puts in pro Putin puppets around wherever he can.

[Joy Reid]

Right. And you know, Paul Eaton pointed, Major General Paul Eaton pointed out that he said that exact same thing about liberating Los Angeles literally in front of US Troops at Fort Bragg, to me, that's even more frightening. The idea of the commander in chief of the United States military, number one, getting troops to hoot and holler against the media, to hoot and holler against the mayor of Los Angeles and against the commander in chief of the California National Guard, namely the governor of California, getting troops to participate in that. And the fact that they selected those troops to make sure they were right wing makes it look like Trump has a fascist militia military behind him.

[Donald Trump]

Look, that event at Fort Bragg was really in the spirit of the Nuremberg rallies where Hitler had the military out there and they were all pledged loyalty to Hitler. They were much bigger. But it was the idea of saying, the military's on my side. It's to intimidate others. Donald Trump is literally going from the playbooks of autocrats and tyrants, literally. It's page by page. He is doing everything from internally targeting media outlets, people who refuse to bend a knee, to the idea of law firms act blue for raising money for Democrats to now troops in the street, which is really not something in the modern era. It's like something from old school. Everything is about the same goal. No checks, no balances. He is king. And sadly, Joy, I saw a poll, Washington Post, 90% of Republicans see what they're seeing in California approval, what Trump is doing. So we have to realize it's not Trump. There's a movement, an anti democratic movement known as maga, that is out there. And they would cheer if we were put in jail. They would cheer if you were put in a camp. I would visit you, but, you know, unless I'm in the camp too, then I'd still visit you. But I'm saying, like, they would cheer and Fox News would defend it. And that's 100.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, no doubt about that. And it's a fascist movement. And to have fascist moving, you have to have fascist people. You have to have fascist people who want and sort of salivate to see people get hurt like these people. You know, they're cheering for the idea of brown people being thrown into vans by, you know, men with unmarked, you know, vests on that they could have bought off of Walmart. We think they're ice, but we don't really know they're cheering for that. And by the way, Dean, we literally, the Joy Rico team, we were literally in Los Angeles while all of this was happening. And the mainstream media wasn't helping. Because when you watched even, you know, mainstream news, not Fox regular news, you would get the sense that all of Los Angeles was up in flames and in the throes of violent protests. That is just not true. Three blocks from City hall, where all of the protests were taking place. And again, the protests were only because ICE was kidnapping people. So ICE takes People. People show up in protest at the Home Depot where they're taking people, or at the warehouse where they're taking people, or at City hall where they're holding people in that federal building where Kristi Noem was doing her press conference. They show up there and then the cops show up. And the usual thing that happens when cops and protesters meet then inevitably happens. And then that violence, that isolated violent incident is then splashed all over the mainstream media. And people think, well, that's all of la Deen. While we were there, people were texting us saying, are you guys okay? Be safe out there. It's like, no. People are at brunch. It's BET Weekend. Celebrities are walking around, you know, in sunglasses, chilling on Rodeo Drive. What are you talking about? The actual experience of being in LA was the opposite of what the media was reporting. So how does the media. The media needs to do better. No, because they're helping him.

[Donald Trump]

Look, Jake Tapper took a moment off from selling his book to show all the cars, and he literally said, five cars are burning. I know that's not a lot in the big picture, but that's still five. And that's kind of like he said that on air. I saw the clip. I'm like, you can't. I don't think he'd get worse. I don't know what happened to the guy. But in any event, putting that aside, look at corporate media, as we know there. There's an agenda. It's to keep people engaged. It's for profit. Business. That's what it's about in their mind. Showing the same car on fire over and over in a little box while you're interviewing someone keeps people engaged. If they tell the American public, this is three blocks in a big city that's hundreds of miles and square miles when you really put it together. I heard. I think I heard Mayor Bass on your show say that perhaps I was watching some of that really good interview you did where she laid out how many people live in LA and how teeny. I have friends in la. We began to be a joke. I'm like, do we have to airlift food for you? Are you okay there? What is going on? And they're like, then, my friend, literally. But I will tell you this, the repercussions are happy. My friend, he lives in la, just said he drove past numerous businesses. Car wash, another place that hire immigrants, and they're closed. Yes, People are not going to work. And they might be legal, documented people, but they're not going to go because maybe Someone in their family isn't. So they get rounded up, they come back to the house. Who knows what's going on. So the real world impact is you're going to create a ghost town in areas where people need employees, and that's going to impact on the economy of LA 100%.

[Joy Reid]

We were told while we were in LA that there are ICE troops fanning out in Disneyland's parking lot, in the parking lot where the tour buses stop. I don't know how many gang members you're going to find in the tour bus area at Disneyland, but they're there, they're showing up at random restaurants. A popular taco spot was targeted. A park in Inglewood where, you know, kids go to play. You know, it's literally they're showing up at graduations, elementary and high school graduations. At this point, they're just terrorizing people. And they're not looking for gang members. Let's just be honest. They're trying to scare brown people. And to your point, it's going to impact the economy in California. And the LA mayor did make this point, Mayor Bass made this point, because now people are going to be afraid to come there. And Disneyland in California is, I believe, the number one or number two tourist destination in the entire country. And so if people are afraid to come to the United States for fear of harassment at the border or at the airport when they're coming in or when they leave or being detained, and then when they get there, they're going to be harassed. And by ice. Why would anybody come to the US So eventually it's going to hit the economy. You can comment on that. But I also have got to talk about this apparent World War 3 that we're about to. Oh, in the Middle east, because Israel decided, hey, it's a great time to go to war with Iran. Do you believe Marco Rubio when he says, we don't know her, that we don't know anything about what Israel?

[Donald Trump]

Well, and my fiance, who you've met, who was Palestinian but is Israeli citizen and her family's in Israel, so she watched the Israeli news here in Hebrew, and last night, and I tweeted it, or posted whatever you call it now, that they were saying they coordinated with the US Government, like they were saying it on Israeli television. And I read to her what Rubio said she was. That's weird, because I saw two different news networks say this was coordinated with the Trump administration. It doesn't mean the Trump administration was actually giving them military support on the actual mission. But they probably gave them intelligence. We know that, but they were not hiding it. And then today, Trump goes from the Rubio statement to Trump now embracing it and watching. I've got to be honest, Joy, watching anchors on networks that I actually like to people read Trump's truth. Social posts on TV are why cable news is dying. You're going to read a statement of a guy, this is life and death. And you're going to read some stupid gibberish from a man who's got clearly some kind of dementia going on. And they're going to read it for be better than that. As an anchor. I don't know why a producer would tell their anchor to do that, but that hurts their accountability. But as an aside, Israel is not going to do it. They used our weaponry, our equipment. Of course we were involved. I'm sure we gave intelligence. And right now, there's no dispute. U.S. warships are helping shoot down the Iranian ballistic missiles. They're being fired in waves of 100 each. They said three or four of them. And for me, it becomes personal because Joy, you know, hen's families in a bomb shelter now in Haifa, they're Palestinian, but the missiles don't know they'll hit anyone. So she's worried about her family. My family lives in the West Bank. If Iran ever got a nuclear weapon and used it on Israel, they would kill my family. So I don't want Iran to get a nuclear weapon. And that's why President Obama negotiated a deal to prevent that and Trump ended the deal. So this is all Trump. All of this is Trump.

[Joy Reid]

And by the way, Gideon Levy, the great Israeli journalist, was on CNN also saying that there's just zero chance that the United States States did not get a heads up on this. But he also made a really good point that because Israel has decided to start a brand new conflict and open up this war that was already. They were already exploding Hezbollah's radios and killing children in the process. They're hitting every country all at once. But now that they've opened up this new front in Iran, the people in Gaza are going to just keep starving. Only now they're going to starve with no one paying attention. Because he made the point that now all eyes will turn to Iran versus Israel and completely begin ignoring the famine, the ongoing famine. And what I don't know how anyone can no longer argue is a genocide and cannot argue and not believe is a genocide in Gaza.

[Donald Trump]

Look, it was barely being covered except for social media, and social media was. Every day, every moment, when I go to Instagram. My friends are posting imagery or on Facebook, even LinkedIn at this point. I have so many friends who have Arab friends or progressives who are active on this, from Jewish Voice for Peace to other organizations, Peter Beinart and others. And it has been the most painful year and a half of my life. Seeing this on a daily basis, seeing pictures of children with one arm missing or burned alive. I've had numerous doctors on my show who were in Gaza who would tell horrific stories that would move them to tears.

[Joy Reid]

And.

[Donald Trump]

And they're telling it probably for the 20th time. And you hear what's going on, and now it'll get ignored even more. But joy to remind you and everyone else, when Netanyahu first came to office years ago, years and years ago, his first thing was, we're not going to focus on the Palestinians. We have to focus on the Iran program. He made a choice then, so he knew quietly he can build more settlements, which he's done. You know, expel Palestinians wherever they can in East Jerusalem. And now you've got what's going on in Gaza, which is war crimes. It's like World War I stuff. Like, I can't believe this happened on our watch. As human beings, it seems like something you would have seen decades ago. And you're like, wow, where were the people? How did the world let that happen? Now we know how the world lets it happen.

[Joy Reid]

I agree. And I mean, the thing is that you think about also the complicity of the United States. I mean, the Biden administration completely complicit. I think it is. The biggest stain on his legacy will be his conduct regarding Gaza and regarding. Regarding what he allowed Israel to do with our weapons. But you now have the Trump administration essentially making it illegal to criticize the government of Bibi Netanyahu. It's illegal, essentially. And you can get deported or jailed for protesting against what Israel is doing, its military adventures and what it's doing in Gaza. It's illegal to basically protest it. And if you're a foreign national, you will be deported for it. And they've exercised maximum penalties for that in the United States. So even if they, in theory, didn't know what was going on, they've already backstopped Netanyahu's government by essentially putting our government in the service of stopping any protest whatsoever against anything they do, no matter what they do. So I don't see how we don't get drawn in, Dean. And I have to honestly am worried. We all live through the Iraq War and the lies regarding. Regarding that and I doubt even most MAGA people want to be drawn into a World War III in the Middle East.

[Donald Trump]

Well, that's the weird wrinkle. I was just reading articles today and right before we began talking about the MAGA split on Israel, there are some who are truly libertarians, really. I might not agree with libertarians, but they really are. Others just don't want to get involved. They have their own agenda. They're like, what are we doing? I don't like Carlson at all, but he's out there screaming about this. He's fighting with Mark Levin, which brings me joy on some other level. But like, so you've got that wing of Marshilla Greene and others. Some of them are isolationists. Some don't like Jewish people, so they don't want to spend any money defending them. That's part of the racism, the bigotry on the right that we see. But ultimately we are the defender of Israel. We are the armor of Israel. I don't know how we would not. We're drawn in. Our troops right now are defending Israel through the strikes from Iran. And on some level, I am actually okay with that because if the Iranian missiles got through and killed more Israelis and the response on Iran would be slaughtering thousands of innocent people. Perhaps if they could just throw weapons at each other and no one got hurt, then they go to the negotiation table and end it. But Trump is feckless. He is so weak. He looks so horribly weak in all of this joy. Remember he said, when I get in there, I'm gonna end the Ukraine war in 24 hours, I'll end Gaza. We've had more wars than ever now. He had a war with Elon Musk. We're on the verge of a civil war. Where's the art of the deal? He's made zero deals on anything. Not even a tariff deal. We have a concept of a plan with the uk, but no deal. He is an abject failure at everything he has touched. And that's objective. I know I'm a Democrat and progressive, but objectively he's abject failure. And he's giving himself a parade with our tax dollars this weekend as like a pick me up. It's like an emotional support event for this failure in the White House.

[Joy Reid]

It is unbelievable. Well, Dean, with that, it's kind of hard to imagine anybody winning the week after what you've just said. I'm really depressed now, but thanks for that. But I gotta ask you because, you know, this is our tradition. We've had this tradition together for a really long time, my friend. And so I've gotta ask you because it is the question that I think everyone wants to know, Dean, who, if anyone on this earth, won the week?

[Donald Trump]

Look, it's a tough call, but I'm going to look actually at the all the people involved in organizing tomorrow's no Kings event. They are the ones who have won the week in advance because no matter what, they've got so much media coverage this week. It broke through. Corporate media had to talk about it. No kings 2000. I've seen 2,500 events. It's whatever number you want. They've won it because they've taken some media narrative away from Donald Trump and giving people hope. And all experts on tyranny and fascism talk about people going to the streets is so vitally important. It has to cut through the idea that the dictator's actually popular and people like what they're doing. Mass protests show the opposite, that they're not popular. So to me, everyone involved in no Kings organizing or planning to go tomorrow or who tweeted or posted about it, you won the week. Be proud. You're saving America.

[Joy Reid]

We love it. Amen. Amen to that. I will double up on that. Dean. I believe they won the week as well. But my pick for who won the week is Wondochi, who is one of the most talented new artists in hip hop and at the BET Awards, an awards that otherwise was mainly, you know, made news for the fashion and for Snoop being there and people wondering if that was a great idea after he performed for a Donald Trump event during his inauguration. But Dochi used her moment and her award moment to tell the truth about what's happening in America and about the fascism and the horrors that are happening. And so I believe that doi won the week. Here is that video. And Dean Obedala, my friend, thank you so much. I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for being on the Joy retail.

[Donald Trump]

Thanks for being. Thanks for having me on. Congratulations. And I look forward to the show growing bigger and bigger until you get to world domination. That's the goal. Media domination by Joy Reid. That's the dream.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you very much. Appreciate you, Dean. All right, see you soon. Thank you, man. We got through it. That is the full hour. Thank you all for watching. Be sure to like and subscribe and comment and also subscribe to Joy's [e-mail] so you can get all the little extras, the behind the scenes goodies and all the things that we have planned for you. Over there. That's also where the Joy's house shop is where you can get the merch and all those things as they start to pop in. And be sure to tune in tomorrow. As I mentioned earlier in the hour, we will be going live myself, Don Lemon and Jim Acosta bringing ourselves together in basically like reporter, journalist Voltron bringing ourselves together from formerly rival networks all coming together all outside of mainstream media. Now we're going to be going live from 3pm to 6pm right here on the Joy Reid show channel but also on Jim Acosta's channel and on Don Lemon's Don Lemon Show Channel and on our substacks you can get us all the places that you love to see us and be sure to like and subscribe and share this channel.

[Paul Eaton]

We appreciate you.

[Joy Reid]

Throw some comments in as well and we will see you next time on the Jordan Show. See you Monday. Oh, I've done the whole show with no with no lipstick.