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- [00:01]
Joy Reid
Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wishlist topping toys for her kids who came too. Belgian chocolates for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss and a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not.
- [00:20]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Almost forget.
- [00:22]
Joy Reid
Marshalls, we get the deals, you get the good stuff. Even at the last minute, the find a Marshall's near you. Okay, Yeah, everybody. Happy Friday.
- [00:45]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
I just want a 500 gift.
- [00:47]
Joy Reid
Christmas Eve. It's like a week before Christmas was the week before Christmas. And all through the house, everyone in the chat was already chatting and even a mouse. That wasn't a really good rhyme, but you know what I'm trying to say. Happy Christmas pre Christmas, everyone. Welcome to the Joy Reid Show. Thank you all for tuning in. Whether you're tuning in on YouTube or substack or on wherever you get your podcast, we appreciate y' all being here. We have a big show tonight. We have a lot going on. It has been quite a week. And yes, I will have my response, as promised, to to Erica Kirk, like, kind of weirding out specifically about me. It's interesting because the right sort of tries to pretend that after I left the artist formerly known of MSNBC that I'm not relevant now, but they keep attacking me. The White House put up a safe space thing that included the Joy Reid Show. Thank you very much for the publicity. J.D. vance decided out of nowhere, out of the blue to say that I'm not grateful enough as the daughter of immigrants. And now Erica Kirk on her, like, apparently endless publicity tour post her late husband, Charlie Kirk getting killed in September. She's now decided that she wants to both hug me and touch my hair. It's very weird. I'm going to comment about that coming up shortly in the show. I'm going to let y' all wait for that. We want to let some folks get a chance to pop in before we do that. But I want to start with some headlines. And my first question is, what the hell is going on with the FBI? The FBI seems to be broken in a fundamental way. I want to play you guys a video of what is supposed to be the final resolution of both the mass shooting at Brown University, which went unsolved for days and days and days, and this additional murder of an MIT professor that both happened within days of each other. Here is the latest from officials on what's supposed to be the resolution of that. Let's play A video of that subject.
- [02:51]
Lunell
Matched the description of that person of interest that this police department was desperate to put handcuffs on. An individual was identified as Claudio Neves Valenti, date of birth, and he was a 48 year old man.
- [03:12]
Joy Reid
He was a Brown student, he was.
- [03:15]
Lunell
A Portuguese national and his last known address was in Miami, Florida. And I will tell you that he took his own life. Tonight we have members of the Providence Police Department up in Salem, New Hampshire. And we also have the BCI unit, obviously the FBI and their Evidence Recovery.
- [03:33]
Joy Reid
Unit is up there. So the process is being conducted as we speak.
- [03:38]
Lunell
And it goes without saying that I would like to personally thank the efforts again of the Providence Police Department, the Rhode Island State Police, the Rhode island attorney general, the FBI, the ATF, HSI, the U.S. marshals, IRS, DEA, Secret Service and NCIS.
- [04:01]
Joy Reid
So that is supposed to be the resolution. There is a picture of the guy they're saying is the killer. But I have to say this was the second or maybe even the third person of interest that was publicly identified by these agencies. They first identified a guy who they said was a person of interest. Put his face out there. I don't even want to put his face or his name back out again. Put his face out there. Put his name out there. The fact that he was a military, a member of the United States military, military put him all the way out there to where people were making social media posts with his face and name, including saying, aha, this is an Anglo, this is a white guy. And that all went viral. Then they released this first person of interest. Then a second guy was supposedly the person of interest. And now here's the third bite at the apple. Now they're saying they definitely got him. And they're also saying this same person who is supposedly now dead, supposedly took his own life. That solves both of these crimes, not just the shooting of two young students, one white, young, white Christian woman and one young Muslim immigrant young man, both of them killed at Brown University, saying that that solves both those two crimes and the murder of a professor named Nuno Fg Lorero, who was an MIT professor who was shot and killed in his hometown on Monday. A renowned physicist described by one colleague as a top guy in his area, recognized internationally. What we have not heard from the FBI and officials is what connects these shootings? What is their story? You know, how are they explaining all of this? We're just supposed to believe they've now suddenly solved both of these two crimes? We're just supposed to by that. And I'M not being a conspiracy theorist here when I say that under Cash Patel, the FBI is not exactly a crack operation. We know that Cash Patel is spending a lot of time on podcasts, including on Stephen Miller's Wife podcast, flying around on private jets to go and see his girlfriend play country music. She's apparently a country music wannabe singer. They're doing a lot of that, but they're also now saying they've solved all these crimes. The. This person is a Portuguese national. They're. They're saying that he had a connection, maybe at Brown University to the professor, maybe they went to school together, and that all these things are connected. I will wait to see if there is a sort of coherent story put together that puts all this together. But I will say that the way they've rolled out these arrests has been pretty slipshod, if I do say so. I think it shows that there's not a lot of organization to what they're doing. It just seems very haphazard, is all I'm saying. I hope this is the solution to these murders so that the families can get some resolution. But let's just say I don't have a lot of confidence in the current FBI or the current doj. And are they now subject to maybe a lawsuit by the first guy that they put out as a person of interest? Is he involved in this in some way? They must have had some information to pick this first guy up. What is happening here? How do they keep going forward in public with information before they're 100% sure what they have? And now this is their new. I don't know. I'm just going to say that I don't have a whole lot of confidence in these people, but hopefully this is a resolution to the case. It just does feel that what we're seeing is the rise of a kind of mediocrity in this administration that I think is actually emblematic of a bigger thing that's happening in the country, a bigger thing that's happening where the mediocre and mediocrity is kind of deliberately being not just allowed to rise, but pushed to the top. While excellence, particularly if it's excellence that happens to also be female excellence or black excellence, or brown excellence, or immigrant excellence pushed to the side. By the way, I wonder if Donald Trump, because this supposed assailant is of Portuguese extraction, is he now gonna do a national ban on Portuguese immigrants? You know, because Portugal's in Europe, last I checked. And I do believe, at least according to the kind of nomenclature Of Maga, that would be a white person. Portuguese. They consider them to be of color. Is there going to be a ban on Portuguese immigrants because of this? Because he does seem to think, you know, 70 Somalis are arrested for a crime in Minnesota. All Somalis have to be banned. Are we going to have a Portuguese, a retaliation against Portugal? Is that going to happen?
- [08:24]
Lunell
I don't know.
- [08:25]
Joy Reid
The FBI is being run by Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey says confessor T. I agree. But the rise of mediocrity I think gets to something. And I've been on a kind of a, like a little bit of a George Carlin kind of wormhole in the last week and I've just been in a real war because I feel like he just has a really interesting and specific way of telling the truth. Please indulge me in about three minutes of George Carlin over the years telling the truth. This is a two. Take a look.
- [08:53]
Lunell
Smug, greedy, well fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that. The CIA doesn't kill anybody anymore. They neutralize people or they depopulate the area. The government doesn't lie and engages in disinformation. The Pentagon actually measures nuclear radiation in something they call sunshine units. Israeli murderers are called commandos. Arab commandos are called terrorists. Contra killers are called freedom fighters. Well, if crime fighters fight crime and firefighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part of it to us, do they? Never mention that part of it. But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interest. That's right. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table to figure out how badly they're getting by a system that threw them overboard 30 years ago. They don't want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now they're coming for your Social Security money. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you Know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all from you sooner or later because they own this place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club. They're not even trying to conceal it anymore. The owners of the country have. They bought their elect, got their election. They said, we're going to get this election. We put you people in that court for a reason. Now back to earth for you. Now. Yeah, forget all that stuff.
- [11:05]
Lev Parnas
They're out in the open.
- [11:07]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
They.
- [11:07]
Lunell
They're openly driving the bus, and we're all in the back. There is no, There is no national.
- [11:13]
Joy Reid
Conspiracy to buy elections and control America. Now talk about back to earth.
- [11:19]
Lunell
You don't need a formal conspiracy, right? When interests converge, these people went to the same universities and fraternities. They're on the same board directors, they're on the same, same country clubs. They have, like, interest. They don't need to call a meeting. They know what's good for them and they're getting it. And there used to be seven oil companies. There are now three. It will soon be two. The things that matter in this country have been reduced in choice. There are two political parties. There are a handful of insurance companies. There are about six or seven information. But if you want a bagel, there are 23 flavors. Because you have the illusion. You have the illusion of choice, right? You don't get the real important choice. There's no freedom of choice. So.
- [12:00]
Joy Reid
And there's the ending there. Never, never underestimate the power of a bunch of stupid people in crowds. And here's the thing about what he said. You don't need a formal conspiracy when you have people of like, interests, who he described as the people who own the country. That is a really smart take. And the cussing aside, apologized to all the saints for the cussing. But that's just how George Carlin spoke. You don't need a formal conspiracy. But a formal conspiracy also helps. With Project 2025, you actually had a formal conspiracy. And with Project 2025, plus the Trump campaign of 2024, you had what amounts to a formal conspiracy. Big billionaires, the Adelsons, Miriam Adelson, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, all of these billionaires combined to pay for Donald Trump to become president for a reason. You have all of these moneyed interests, some of whom were not even formally associated with the Republican Party in the past, all come together for one reason, to support Donald Trump just as foreign interests, including Russia, particularly Russia. But Also other interests as well. Israel and others said, we really want Donald Trump in 2016 for a reason. There's a reason that they looked at Donald Trump, who's not the smartest, the brightest, who has no background in politics. There's a reason they specifically wanted him in 2016, especially Russia. And there's a reason that these same formal interests wanted Trump again in 2024. They wanted him for a reason. This is the point where I remind you once again that there really has only been one big story this year. There are a lot of sub stories to it, but there has only been one story. Republicans have finally, with Donald Trump's ascent to the White House again, nearly completed the Century plus project of the people who own the country, the super elite, the super rich, the billionaire class, as we call them now, to end taxation and regulation upon themselves. It's all they've ever wanted. Ever since 1913, when Woodrow Wilson signed the income tax. They've been at war against the income tax ever since Teddy Roosevelt began regulation, including regulation on what you could do with the environment. They've been at war against regulation ever since. FDR was a traitor to his class and implemented vast policies that created a middle class. There really wasn't a middle class until FDR spread the wealth, effectively spread the wealth in response to the Great Depression, which was caused by the financial elite themselves. They drove the country into a dish. FDR pulls us out of the ditch and then begins all of these government programs that begin to build a middle class. You then have an income tax that begins to redistribute wealth to regular people. The 20th century is what the elite are at war with. From the supreme court to project 2025 to Donald Trump to the current Republican Party, they are at war with the 20th century to end taxation and regulation upon themselves, to return to the 19th century where they could have unlimited, untaxed wealth. It's all they care about. That is the story of the 2024 election. The whole point of that election was to ensure that the massive $4.7 trillion tax cut, overwhelmingly going to billionaires, was made permanent. They knew that Joe Biden, despite them claiming his brain was out to lunch, they knew that he understood government and could figure out a way to stand in the way of that $4.7 trillion tax cut becoming permanent. They knew Kamala Harris would face tremendous pressure from her base to not let that tax cut go through. It's the only reason they kept supporting Trump. They. They knew Trump was a insurrectionist. They knew he stole classified Documents. They knew his immorality. They do not care. They knew his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. But guess what? They also had relationships with Jeffrey Epstein because he, too, was a part of the billionaire class. Now, in order to make that tax cut permanent, they needed to find a way to cover up the spending gap that would result the humongous deficit. So they tried to find pay forsaken. Elon Musk goes in with Doge to try to find $2 trillion in savings that they could put in the gap. The $4.7 trillion tax cut was going to leave, but they only found, like, a couple hundred million dollars. Even after gutting usa, gutting the State Department, gutting the Department of Education and much more, firing, you know, hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands of people, nothing got them the money. So next they came for Medicaid, and they took $800 billion out of Medicaid, again for one purpose, to put money in the hole. The $4.7 trillion tax cut was gonna leave. The next place they decided to come was for Obamacare and the premium supports that Obamacare created so that ordinary people could Afford Healthcare. That's $300 billion. And if you believed that those Senate Democrats who voted to reopen the government without ensuring that those premium supports were gonna get put back in, if you thought they were smart politically, I got to sell you in Brooklyn, because that was never going to happen. The bill to restore those $300 billion in premium supports, not only did they not get a chance to vote for it in the Senate, it didn't even make it out of the House. Four Republicans crossed over, as folks in the chat were saying on our last show, and they crossed over to push through a discharge petition like the one they did for the Epstein files to force the bill onto the floor. That thing didn't pass. And it's not on accident. It's not by accident that it didn't pass. It was never gonna pass, because killing the premium supports is how Donald Trump gets to finally kill Obamacare and put in place of it something he says is better. Trumprx.com he gets to kill the Obamacare creation of his mortal enemy, Barack Obama, who he's incredibly jealous of. And Republicans are willing to let him do it. They're willing to let him play with your health care because it makes him happy, keeps him from crashing out, makes him feel important. Just like him stealing the Kennedy center and pretending he can do that makes him feel important. They're letting him crash out, get a billion dollars in crypto, whatever he wants. Just so that he will keep being the entertainment while they, the Republicans in the House and Senate, remain the incompetent, mediocre defenders of pedophiles. They're the gross old protector party. That's what GOP stands for now. But they, the members of the House and Senate, they are not the elite themselves, even though some of them are multimillionaires. They are the shock troops that the billionaire elite, the people who own the country, as George Carlin called them. They're there to do the bidding of the elite while trying to hang on to power long enough to enact a deeply unpopular agenda you would never vote for and that even most MAGA wouldn't vote for if they knew what it was. So to do that, to get away with it, they always needed a clown. They needed entertainments. Trump is that clown. His job is literally to feed you bread and circuses while they steal your life, while they steal your livelihood, while they steal your health care, your freedom from surveillance, maybe even your physical freedom, particularly if you are a brown immigrant or even a brown citizen. They're going to steal that from you. While what they give you, and particularly the MAGA base, is bred in circuses. He feeds the base. Cruel public entertainments, arrests of non white migrants, violent arrests, throwing a pregnant woman on the ground and standing on her back. They love it. They eat it up. That's the entertainments they get while they too get their lives stolen, their health care stolen, their farms stolen. Tariffs destroy their lives, but they don't care. They love it. They get the entertainments. They get exactly nothing economically, nothing in their pockets, just emotional wins as poor folks, women, non white people, while they lose. MAGA feels like they're winning. Are you seeing it now? The whole point of every story we've done on the Joy Reid show this year, of every story that's happened this year, is so they could get that $4.7 trillion gift in their pockets from you that you pay for with your Medicaid and with your Obamacare. And you let me tell you what you get. Here's Trump one day after his rambly, shambly shouty speech where he slurped and sniffed like he was high on Adderall and demanded that America love him and love his economy. Say the economy is great. Say it's great. His next gambit for you, what you're going to get games to host the.
- [20:40]
Lunell
First ever Patriot Games, an unprecedented four day athletic event featuring the greatest high school athletes, one young man and one young woman from each state and territory. But I promise there will be no men playing in women's sports. You're not going to see that. You'll see everything.
- [20:57]
Joy Reid
But that is how they play you. You know what it's giving. Don't worry. There's no men in women's sports. You're just going to get. You're going to get games. And you know what he's talking the one man, one boy, one guy, and one male and one female athlete from each day. You know what it's giving? It's giving something, right? Oh, I know what it's giving. It's giving. The Hunger Games.
- [21:15]
Lunell
The Hunger Games was decreed that each year the various districts of Pan Am would offer up in tribute one young man and woman to fight to the death in a pageant of honor, courage and sacrifice. The lone victor, bathed in riches, would serve as a reminder of our generosity and our forgiveness. This is how we remember. Remember our past. This is how we safeguard our future.
- [21:45]
Joy Reid
I just love that. There you go. So while you're losing your Obamacare subsidies and measles is breaking out all over the country as RFK Jr. And Stephen Miller and Russ Vout and every other insane vulture gets to live out their darkest fantasies at your expense. Well, that's happening. Trump gets his big beautiful bill passed. They called it beautiful to steal your health care. A billion dollars in crypto money in his pockets for releasing crypto scammers from prison on pardons. He gets to deface the White House, maybe even try still the Kennedy center and rename it after himself. We get to. And we're going to get to that bus basically later in the show. But every maga gets to live their dream at your expense. Now, one thing they're not going to do, they're not going to release the Epstein files. Now, before we get to that, and we are going to get to that, I want to note that the Joy Reach show tonight is brought to you by Reproductive Freedom for All's podcast, My Body, My Pod. And reproductive freedom is under attack like never before. We are at a breaking point and the stakes higher than ever. That's why you've got to check out My Body, My Pod, a new podcast with Minnie Timaraju, president and CEO of Reproductive Freedom for All, a leading voice in the fight for abortion rights. Through honest interviews and immersive storytelling, they're breaking through the noise to share what's really happening in the fight for reproductive freedom. Now, if you want to be a part of the nationwide fight for abortion rights, this show is for you. As A listener, you'll get to hear from leaders and change makers who share wisdom from the front lines, stories of the challenges folks are enduring across this country, and a vision for the future that we're determined to win. The fight for reproductive freedom has never been more urgent and it's never been more important. So do check out My Body My Pod with mini Timaraju on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, so let me let you guys listen to Representative Ro Khanna on Yesterday. That is B1.
- [23:30]
Lunell
By 11:59pm on Friday, the Epstein files will finally be released. Because of my Epstein Transparency act, we will see thousands of documents that we should have seen decades ago. Three federal judges have ordered the release. As I'm speaking, dozens of lawyers on the national security team at the Department of Justice are preparing the documents for release. Let me be very clear. We need a full release. Anyone who tampers with these documents or conceals documents or engages in excessive redaction will be prosecuted because of obstruction of justice. We will prosecute individuals regardless of whether they're the Attorney General or a career or political appointee. We need full transparency and justice for the survivors. Tomorrow, finally, rich and powerful men who raped underage girls, who or who covered up for this abuse will be held accountable. The Epstein class needs to go or not.
- [24:36]
Joy Reid
Here is one of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's horrific, disgusting abuse. Her name is Marina Lucerna, and this is her speaking back in September to push for the passage of that law.
- [24:47]
Marina Lucerna
Part is that the government is still in possession right now. Of the documents and information about that could help me remember and get over all of this maybe and help me heal. They have documents with my name on them that were confiscated from Jeffrey Epstein's house and could help me put the pieces of my own life back together. But I don't have any of it. And I know the same is true for many of these women. We are here to support this bill today, not only for transparency, but for the American people. But if the government is going to release these documents to the public describing the crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein and others, the least that they can do is give me my documents that they have about me. The other survivors deserve the same respect from our government.
- [25:56]
Joy Reid
And joining me now is Marina Lucerda, and she is a survivor of the horrors of Jeffrey Epstein. Ms. Lucerta, thank you so much for being here.
- [26:06]
Marina Lucerna
Thank you for having me.
- [26:08]
Joy Reid
So I will. I'm not thrilled to be able to announce to you that the full release of the Epstein files, which was supposed to happen after Donald Trump signed the Epstein Files Transparency act, which was passed by Congress. It has not happened. Today being the deadline for that to happen, apparently there will not be a full release. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch has said the Department of Justice will not be releasing the full Epstein files to Congress today. What is your response to that?
- [26:38]
Marina Lucerna
You know, I always like to be hopeful and I always like to be positive, but we expected this. We expected. It was. It was just too good to be true. When President Trump, what was it, a month ago, said that he was going to release the Epstein files and he signed it off, you know, and it seemed all good and gravy, and then we really had to sit back and think about it. It was just way. He gave in way too easy. So today, as I could say for all the survivors, we are not in shock. We expected for this to happen. We are mad. We are extremely nervous to see what else will come out because when things do start to come out, they are being fully redacted and it is not to protect us. And here we are again, protecting these wealthy, powerful men.
- [27:31]
Joy Reid
Yeah. And seen. Talk a little bit if you could, and I don't want to re traumatize you, but how did you wind up meeting Jeffrey Epstein? How old were you and where were you and how did he. Did he wind up in your life?
- [27:48]
Marina Lucerna
So how I met Epstein, I was in a very vulnerable stage in my life. I had been abused by my stepfather from the age of 8 until 12 years old. And when the abuse stopped, I had to start working. My mother and I were immigrants, and at the. At the time, and it was very hard for my mom to find a job. It was, I think, very hard for all of us to understand and accept that my stepfather was abusing me. And when he did go to jail, I was kind of blamed for it. And I started working, was not making enough money. We ended up compacting ourselves into one room. My sister was, you know, at the time, alive and was about, I think, two, three years old. So we all lived in one bedroom. And I started to work all these jobs. And when I did start working these jobs, I came across the Brazilian community. This was in New York, by the way. Astoria, Queens. And when I did meet these Brazilian people, I met a young Brazilian girl who knew Jeffrey Epstein. And she invited me over her house and she said, hey, I just want to talk to you a little bit. Everybody in Astoria, Queens knew that I was abused by my stepfather. And the crazy part is nobody ever told the police. Nobody ever told anybody. It was really you know, under the radar. And it was like everybody knew about it, but nobody wanted to help me. So because, you know, it comes in with that New York thing, like, you mind your business, I think. And that's what everybody followed, you know, back then. So she comes up to me and she's talking to me, and she's, you know, explaining to me, you know, I have this, you know, really wealthy, this very famous person, and I'm like, who's this famous person? You know, she's like, well, he's. He's, you know, very wealthy, and he, you know, he's very well known. And I'm, you know, there's no Google. There's nothing really going on at that time. She ended up talking me into going to Jeffrey Epstein's house to give a massage, which at the time, you know, being already in such a situation where I was physically and sexually abused by my stepfather. When she broke down, some of the things that were going to happen there was just basically, you know, just to take off my shirt and just to give a massage didn't seem so bad from what I already been through and vulnerable, needed to make money, you know, struggling with my mom and my sister and, you know, had to stop going to ballet classes. My jazz taps is my. My. I'm sorry, my jazz tap tap dance classes. And I really wanted to make that money. I did go to Jeffrey Epstein's house. Other things happened there then just my shirt coming off and just, you know, a massage. And I was very furious with her because really, she told me one thing, and then it led to another thing. And afterwards she handed me $300, and she was like, you've never made that much in your life in a matter of a half an hour. And she took me out afterwards and really groomed me more. More into how Jeffrey Epstein could help me in the future. Being a Brazilian immigrant, she was like, you're not going to ever meet people like this. He's going to lead you on, and he's going to give you a life that you're just not going to have. And at the time, I said, you know, she might be right, because who am I going to meet in A Story of Queens? I. I don't know if you've ever been there, but A Story of Queens is. It's. It's. It's a great place to hang out, but there's not many, you know, opportunities there. So I did go back, and obviously he did not help me in anything except, you know, I guess, the most that he did was give me money so I can, you know, pay for my mom and the bills that were coming in and, you know, just trying to survive.
- [31:39]
Joy Reid
Well, you were 14, right, at the time?
- [31:41]
Marina Lucerna
Yep, I was 14.
- [31:44]
Joy Reid
And this woman, is she somebody that's been publicly named? Are you willing to name this woman who was dragging you into this hell?
- [31:52]
Marina Lucerna
You know, it's. I can't find her. I've looked everywhere. We've all looked everywhere, including, you know, some of my lawyers. She's nowhere to be found, and I can't name her. I do have to respect she is a victim. And I know that even though she did lie to me and did groom me too, I think we all. All were groomed in some different ways, and I don't ever like to blame her.
- [32:15]
Joy Reid
Yeah. Did you ever encounter Ghislaine Maxwell during this time?
- [32:19]
Marina Lucerna
Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I encountered her actually with another survivor.
- [32:25]
Joy Reid
And tell me about that interaction.
- [32:29]
Marina Lucerna
That interaction was very weird because I think a lot of the other survivors were introduced to Ghislaine and had more of a different experience. But then when we look at it, New York women and Florida women have two totally different experiences with Jeffrey Epstein. And even New Mexico and Virgin Islands, it's just, like, totally different. Right. So when I was going to Jeffrey Epstein, a friend of mine were going together. She was a model at Ford, and Jeffrey Epstein was in love with this Jane Doe. And she has not publicly came out and has not spoken yet. And at the time, he really, really was obsessed with this young lady. And we were in his massage table in his massage room. I'm sorry. And he said, I want to bring you guys to the bedroom. I have, you know, someone that I want you guys to meet. We did move on to his bedroom, and next thing you know, Ghislaine walks in, you know, and we were not introduced to her. We were just like. He was like, this is my friend here, and she's gonna be joining us. And obviously, you know, they. It was very. It was very, you know, traumatizing because they both, you know, raped us in that bed in. In his New York mansion. And a lot of it, you know, I think because of my trauma and just. Because obviously it's 18 years. There's so much. So much that I just don't remember of that date. I would love to reach out to this Jane Doe woman who I still speak to, but she is so traumatized about this that she doesn't even like to use. She doesn't even like to hear the word Jeffrey Epstein.
- [34:15]
Joy Reid
Yeah. And what do you, what were your thoughts when Ghislaine Maxwell, given that you know her as also an abuser like Jeffrey Epstein was given, was moved from a maximum security prison to a minimal security prison where she seems to be living a pretty cushy life.
- [34:34]
Marina Lucerna
You know, I have to say this. Of course, I had an encounter with her one time, but let's talk about all the other survivors who had many encounters with her and actually were groomed by her. Right? It is a slap in our faces. It is, it is disgusting. We are so, I want to say we're annoyed with it. We are mad. We are, we are furious at this point because if it was anybody else that, you know, any, any regular Jodo walking down the street would have been prosecuted to the fullest extent. Correct? So why are we giving this woman, who is known to be worse than Jeffrey Epstein, any type of leniency? It is disgusting. We are, especially when we look at Virginia, Virginia's family, they've. They're fighting so hard and then they sit there and they give this woman, you know, you, you see her on TV and you see her like she's strolling down, you know, Central park and sometimes I wonder. I feel like she has better dinners than I do. You know, it's, it, it's really, we are at this point, you know, I don't think anything else shocks us at this point, but we are, we are fighting very hard to, you know, keep her at least there, at least there than to be outside and be free. So we hope that if she can be sent back to where she belongs, it would be awesome. And if not, we cannot pardon her. You know, that that's something that we've all made it clear.
- [36:05]
Joy Reid
You in the past have said to appeal to Donald Trump to do the right thing, release these files and think about it, how he would feel if his own daughter was involved. I mean, we do know that his sort of attitude toward at least one of his daughters is pretty predatory. So I'm not so sure that he would care. And this same daughter actually was a model with John Casablanca's agency. We know his notorious sort of reputation. What do you make of Donald Trump's seeming real insistence on these files not coming out? What do you make of that? Well.
- [36:41]
Marina Lucerna
We think, all of, you know, all of us, we all think that it's a little bit confusing for us, right, because when somebody comes out and says they have nothing to do with it and they have nothing to hide, you would quickly jump on it. And then you also promise this right in the beginning of your campaign, you promise this. So if you say something as a man and as a woman too, you should keep your word. Correct? And I think that we survivors feel like, and maybe we know that there's more to it and that's why you don't want to let that files to come out. And it's not only him, it's who else is he protecting? Because we had another politician say it. We have, we have proof, proof, concrete proof that he has been around and he has been involved in this than more just being Jeffrey Epstein's friend. So when we already have the proof and we have all of these emails and we have all these pictures, we're just trying to figure out why are you still trying to protect other, other powerful men?
- [37:54]
Joy Reid
I'll give you just two things, Jason. This is B4 and B5. Let's start with Dan Bongino, who also promised him, he promised, made his entire podcast reputation, at least a lot of it, on, on saying that the Epstein files need to fully come out. He's now leaving the Department of Justice. Have you had any conversations or has he had any conversations with you or other survivors? Do you have any thoughts on why he might be leaving?
- [38:15]
Marina Lucerna
We've had, we've had no conversation about this. We are wondering, is it because he is disgusted, you know, with his own, you know, with his own director. I'm sorry, with, with Cash Patel. Is he discuss it and he's like looking at him like, almost like, I can't believe you're doing this. Or does he have any involvement in it? Yeah, so we're, we're not sure. It could, you know, it could be either or I personally think it might be that he is annoyed and he is disgusted with what Cash Patel and his team are doing. That's what I think.
- [38:50]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [38:51]
Marina Lucerna
I could be wrong.
- [38:52]
Joy Reid
I could be wrong. We don't know. We. Have you had any comment? Has Cash Patel spoken with any of you survivors that you know of?
- [38:58]
Marina Lucerna
You know, I don't want to say Cash Patel himself, but we've had some sort of reach in that department. We've had some talks and it just, it just started recently. I don't want to get into it because it is very personal, but they did reach out. They finally reached out. I, I, I, I think they just wanted to say, and I think they're going to be able to say they reached out now, that they tried their hardest to speak to us.
- [39:26]
Joy Reid
No, I guess my exit question to you is at this point, since it doesn't appear that the administration is going to release these files, at least, as you said, not unredacted. What do you want to see happen? I think you were speaking about Thomas Massie, the Republican congressman who really partnered with Ro Khanna in a big way. There were four Republicans who worked with Democrat Ro Khanna and all of the House Democrats to get these files out. Do you want to see them read the names from the floor, if they know the names? Do you want to see hearings in the House and Senate? What do you want to see? What would justice look like to you?
- [40:02]
Marina Lucerna
You know, I do have to say thank you to all these politicians who have been, you know, and I'm not going to start naming every one of them. All of them have been, you know, so extraordinary to us and we really didn't even expect it. Like, we, we just thought like it was just gonna be us fighting this. But they have been fighting with us and we are so thankful for them. Justice, to me and to all the survivors, I, I, I, I, I think, you know, and from mainly for myself, is really, we need to bring these men to justice. They need to be, you know, they need to face trial. They need to go and, and, and do time if they have to. It is, it is, it is nice when people come out and say, you did it, you did it, you did it. Prince Andrew from, for instance, you know, we know he did it and it's great, but why isn't he being brought to trial? Why is he, why is now the uk, the people of UK swiping it under the carpet? We need to bring these men to full, full justice. Okay? They need to be brought to, we need justice for that, for, for Virginia, for ourselves. We need to stop this because they will continue. If it has happened to us, that means they have, it has happened to other women that have not spoken about it. Okay? So we need to put a stop to it for, for this generation and for the next generation.
- [41:34]
Joy Reid
Amen. Marina Lucerta, thank you. Eliserta, thank you so much for coming forward. And thank you for your bravery in speaking, speaking out publicly because it takes a lot of courage to speak out against some of the world's most powerful people. These powerful men, they think that they can silence people like you, but they clearly cannot. Thank you so much and I am so sorry for you having to re, traumatize yourself, you know, speaking about this, but I just appreciate your courage.
- [42:00]
Marina Lucerna
Thank you so much for having me and I appreciate you and I hope that all women out there do not stop speaking and do not let anybody scare you because your voice and our voice matters.
- [42:12]
Joy Reid
Amen. Amen. Sister Maria Lisa, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. I appreciate you so much. Joining me now is Lev Parnas, our friend friend of the show. And I want to just let you have an opportunity to react to Marina if you could.
- [42:26]
Lev Parnas
Yeah. Hi Joy. First of all, I mean first of all, what can I say? I mean she that's she's a brave woman. I feel first for her and for all the women and the survivors today, I, I'm just ashamed of our country. I'm ashamed of what's going on. I'm ashamed as a man, I'm ashamed as an American. I'm ashamed that this is going that in 2025 as a father, as a husband, as you know, I, I, I, I, I, I can't believe, you know that these women have to be going through begging and to, into the whole world to, to get justice. And it's a, it's a shame. It's a dis this but I'm not surprised. That's the whole thing. I'm not surprised and you know it me and you've been speaking about we've actually I think on one of the shows that we did together we broke the dam but Gino and stuff and we'll talk about but it's disgusting.
- [43:14]
Joy Reid
But what do you make of his exit? Marina was saying she thinks it either could be that he's disgusted and is leaving because he's not going to be able to fulfill his promise of releasing the files or he's in on it.
- [43:26]
Lev Parnas
No, he's not in on it actually have been reporting on it for four months since July six beginning hasn't been spoken to Trump since they had that blowout and he left the office when they July 6th when they tried to bury the files. Ever since then Bungino has not been in the Oval but Gino is not connection actually Bungino was supposed Patel was trying to make peace between Trump and Pam Bondi in that infamous dinner that events was supposed to have that they didn't have that the media wasn't reporting on. So Bongino has always been on the outskirts. Me and Waj have a been talking about this already for months and actually I you know I reported on it earlier today. I right. I think I wrote a letter at 10 o' clock in the morning talking about exactly one of my good sources told me this is what's going to happen today. They're going to try to throw Bill Clinton under the bus, they're going to give you a bunch of nothing, uh, and then they're going to disappear till January and try to have this thing blow over and, you know, and come out the new cycle. And it's a shame that we're going through this, Joy, but I could tell you, you know, as long as we. People like Maria that are willing to stand up and talk and we have people like you that are willing to give them a voice and stand behind them, I could vow to you that, I promise you, you know, somebody. I'm not a journalist. I'm not, but I was part of that, you know, show. I was part of helping make that mega. And I could vow to you and everyone subscriber here that I will do everything in my power to take the mega down piece by piece and hold them accountable. Because each and every one of those powerful men, and a lot of them know who they are. We all know a lot of them. It doesn't matter. Democrat, Republic, independent, black, white, Jewish, Spanish, Puerto Rican. I don't. I don't care what color, what race you are. For you, it's time to pay the piper. And so, you know, it's never, never forget.
- [45:16]
Joy Reid
And, Jason, this is B5. We'll never forget this. And I don't want to play that from arena, but I will play it for you audiences. B5. Donald Trump was the good friend of Jeffrey Epstein, Always was. Jeffrey Epstein testified. This is one of the releases from the House Oversight Committee. He was very deeply involved and was very much a friend. This kind of does go into the next thing that I want to talk with you about. This is C1. Jason, play C1 if you could. This is just a personal relationship with Donald Trump. What do you mean by personal relationships? Have you socialized with him? Yes.
- [45:58]
Marina Lucerna
Media, social?
- [45:59]
Joy Reid
Yes.
- [45:59]
Lunell
Yes, sir.
- [46:00]
Joy Reid
Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump.
- [46:03]
Lunell
In the presence of females under the age of 18? Though I'd like to answer that question at least today, I'm going to have to assert my 5th, 6th and 14th amendment rights.
- [46:21]
Joy Reid
Sir, would you declassify the 9. 11. We can stop it. There's.
- [46:25]
Marina Lucerna
Would you declassify.
- [46:26]
Joy Reid
That was just him saying he would declassify, that he would. That he would not declassify the files. And when he. When Jeffrey Epstein took the fifth there and said he would not answer that question. I am in possession of, thanks to the House Oversight Committee of a copy of the lawsuit that was filed by an unnamed woman who claimed that she was sexually abused, not just by Jeffrey Epstein, but by Donald Trump. That lawsuit has never come to fruition. That woman has never come forward. We do not know her identity. I did know who her lawyer was at the time, Lisa Bloom, but that kind of went away. Is. Do you. I don't know if you have any insight into the fact that Jeffrey Epstein would not say whether he had been around Donald Trump and underage girls.
- [47:11]
Lev Parnas
I could tell you this much, Joy. I mean, I don't have any insight exactly about that conversation. But you. You know my story a little bit. Rachel did my documentary, for those of you have seen it. You know, I come from a world that I, I lived around people like that since a young age. I saw the 80s and 90s in New York. You know, I used to work for Fred Trump, Donald Trump's father. I ran in those circles. And I could tell you it was a different world. You know, if you want to understand of what it was like, just a little taste of it, just go back to the Weinstein trials that we had with the MeToo movement, and that was just a little bit of it. These powerful men in those days, that's why they had the Miss Pageants, Miss Universe pageants. That's why they had the modeling agencies. And that's why some of the other things I'm hearing, that's one of the reasons why Trump is extremely trying to close it up, shut this down, is because the ties and links it has to his current wife, Melania Trump, because she comes from that world. She comes through that world, through those modeling agencies, through that world of Epstein and everybody else, and it just so cool. Coincidentally, she has a movie coming out right now to try to, you know, you know, make her look like that first lady that she's not. So, you know, I don't have hardcore facts of if they were together, but I know Katie Johnson's story very well. There was somebody that was trying to introduce me actually to her. She was going to try come out, but then she got scared. Uh, I was going to give her a platform, and I, you know, I was. I was going to try even get her in touch with some of, uh, lawyers like, uh, you know, Dave Aronberg and others to protect her. But I could tell you this much. I believe her story just because I know, first of all, Donald Trump. And if for one second, if there was one unfactual truth, he would have gone after it. He's never gone after her. He's never, you know, they scared her to, you know, and this is one of the things that, you know, is we need to find out who, who were these people, you know, for Donald Trump that scared her to such a degree because, you know, she lays it out just like, just like, you know, there were times where there were these swinger parties. This was a time where they had these rich people. And Epstein, this is how he had them all come, because he would hold the parties, he would have like the Maxwell bring all these young girls there, and then he would invite them to, like his penthouse or to a pride like these prior clubs with the Donald Trumps of the world, where they would go and feel safe and secure. And that's why, you know, like, like, what's her name? Marjorie Taylor Greene said, when I tell Donald Trump, why are you protect. She. He said to her, a lot of people are going to, A lot of good people are going to get hurt if they release those files.
- [49:59]
Joy Reid
Yeah. Let's shift topics. And this actually does kind of, it does bleed over into it. I got to read you this from the Hill Lev. Vanity Fair photographer Christopher Anderson, who's like my hero right now, on Wednesday defended his photos of White House aides taken for a profile on Chief of Staff Susie Wiles after both the story and his images were met with criticism from Trump administration officials and allies. Here's the quote. It is curious that the Internet is shocked that I would not retouch the blemishes, anderson told Newsweek. I guess I find it shocking that people would expect that journalistic photos should be retouched. Celebrity photos are celebrity photos. Politicians are not celebrities. Let's not mix things up. Anderson's objective when photographing the political world is to make the photographs of cut through the staged, managed image to reveal something more real and the images to honestly portray the encounter that I had at that moment. He added, being very close is part of how I've been doing this for many years now. They knew who they were when they hired him. So let's show some of these pictures and I want to let you talk about this shoot. This is C2. Actually, Jason, C2 is the. It's just, I put them all in kind of a, kind of a reel, which is C2. So let me know when you got that ready. There you go. So here's the. And I'm just going to let you talk over this because these are wild. Please go live.
- [51:14]
Lev Parnas
First of all, Marco, I, you know, I, I can't even imagine what they were thinking. I mean, I could understand J.D. vance. He's not, he has no idea what planet he's on. Stephen Miller, you could Tell. He thinks, you know, Dan Scavina. I know. They. These two think they're. And, you know. Yeah, there you go. Caroline Lovett. You know, these guys think they're. They think they're in some kind of movie. They're like. They're like, you know, reenacting their favorite characters and you know who his favorite character probably is. Get, you know, little gimlet over there. And this guy you like. You could. You know, I just. You can't make this stuff up, Joe. Look at this. Look at these guys.
- [51:49]
Lunell
Oh, my God.
- [51:50]
Lev Parnas
Oh, my God, the lips. Remember how he said, oh, the wonderful lips.
- [51:57]
Joy Reid
He's Jesus. Good God. You know, Jason, you could play it one more time just to go through, because my favorite one, I have to say, is Rubio standing and looking into a lamp. What is happening?
- [52:08]
Lev Parnas
I was. I was gonna ask you the same question. That's. That was the. You know, the others. I could have a Rubio. Let's get.
- [52:16]
Joy Reid
Why is he staring and looking at a lamp?
- [52:18]
Lev Parnas
He looks like he's praying. Maybe he's praying or.
- [52:22]
Joy Reid
Can you have some inside scoop on this? How in the hell did Ms. Wiles, who is the daughter of a very famous footballer, football player and commentator, how did she get suckered into being this blunt about her staffers and her fellow cabinet members? What? Or fellow members of the. The elite team or the not so elite team?
- [52:45]
Lev Parnas
Yeah, yeah, the 18. I'm. I'm so. I'm so glad you asked me, Joy, because be very careful. She did not get suckered in 19. This is this woman, first of all. I know her very well. I worked with her back in the days. Not with her directly, but at the same firm, Ballard and Associates. Brian Ballard is one of the top lobbyists in Washington, D.C. she. Not only that, but also Pam Bondi worked for Ballard and Associates. I go back with Ballard back in the day when he was just a Florida lobbyist. I'm the one that helped him get the turkey contracts with Erdogan. I introduced him to a lot of European countries, and then he moved to Washington, D.C. k Street, after our relationship. So I know these people very, very well, Joy. And I could tell you she is no novice, and nobody suckered her into anything. And I, you know, and I've been speaking to my sources, and they've confirmed to me on the. Basically that she is planning her own exit, just like Dan Benjino was doing his. This was Susie Wiles, basically putting them all on notice. Because if anybody knows anything about Donald Trump, there is no way that he will ever trust Susie Wiles again. After some of those comments and after some of the things she said right now, there's major damage control that is trying to be done. But Susie Wilds is a smart operative because if you take a look at how she dismantled them one by one and then, you know, she never said that any of it was false. She just came out and basically said, oh, it's a hit job. Did the regular mumbo jumbo. But now she, it's like playing poker. She's all in. And Trump has to either call her bluff or. So it's now up to Trump. Do you fire her? These are. But the one thing that my sources are saying is that we will not see Susie Wiles when the music stops. There will be a, there will be a different chief of staff when the music stops. She doesn't want to be sitting in that chair.
- [54:32]
Joy Reid
Look, I don't want to see Susie Wiles ever again after that. Close up. She scared the hell out of me. I have nightmares about Susie Wise close up. And especially the little Kate, the little spokes lady code. Close up. Terrifies me.
- [54:42]
Lev Parnas
I don't know those lips.
- [54:44]
Joy Reid
What is happening? Last exit question to you, Lev. Let's play a little bit. Jason of C3. This was a new drop from the New York Times of actual audio of the then speaker of the. Of the Georgia House, basically trying to bargain with Trump over whether he would help Trump steal the election. Here's you do it to uncover fraud.
- [55:06]
Lunell
You could say, for transparency and to uncover fraud, possible fraud. So who's going to stop you for that?
- [55:13]
Joy Reid
You know.
- [55:15]
Lunell
A federal judge, possibly. Yeah. You know, Mr. President, federal.
- [55:23]
Joy Reid
First of all, that is probably the best clip for him because the rest of it, he is kissing Trump's ass for 12 straight minutes. Mr. President, I'm so glad that the country needs. Mr. President, Mr. President, Mr. President,. Mr. President. And Trump praising him, saying, you're popular with that Governor Camp, ah, his career is finished. Then he got reelected. Your thoughts on all of this?
- [55:44]
Lev Parnas
I mean, I mean, it's, we're seeing the true Trump. I mean, the one thing people forget, Joy, just because, you know, he became president again, they forget he's a criminal, He's a convicted felon, he's a convicted criminal. And you know, I had Dave Aronberg on yesterday. He's incredible. He's also my attorney. 30. And we were having this conversation and he was telling me, like, how the files are going to come out. I'm like, dave, they're scrubbing the files. He Goes, no, why would they do that? That would be an extra crime. I go, because they're criminals. They think like girls. You're forgetting, these are not people that are actual, you know, maybe even, what's it called, politicians. That could be criminals. These are criminals that are pretending to be politicians. So this, this is what's being run. So you have to understand how the criminal mind works. The criminal mind works, because I've lived with them my whole life, is do whatever you can to cover up the crime. That's why they always say the COVID up is worse than the crime. And that's what we're seeing right now. This is the worst cover up in the history of not only the United States, but the world, because there's a lot of people involved.
- [56:46]
Joy Reid
And it's for the reasons that we started the show to talk about is that the elite in the world want to do a lot of dirt. They want to do a lot of stealing. And you need a lot of entertainers like Donald Trump to keep the base head spinning with entertainments. And you need a lot of idiots that are willing to actually do the criminal crap for you. And that is all your little Republican politicians willing to run around like little minions and do all the dirty work so that the elite can prosper. Does it remind you of just when you look through back your old family history, and I think you and you originally were from Ukraine. But. But doesn't it kind of look like Russia?
- [57:23]
Lev Parnas
Oh, yeah. No, that's why I'm saying to you, I mean, if you take a look at the way he's setting up everything he does, and the oligarchy, and it's literally like, you know, what Putin did there. You know, he mimics a lot of it because, Joy, the 90s, he ran with all those people, he funneled money through all of them. That's how he became not only him, but so did Steve Witkoff. And that is why you have Witkoff and Jerry Kushner running it. You don't have. Just think about Marco Rubio has never in the 10 months, has not sit down with Putin or any of these leaders. He. The only people he's gotten a chance to sit down was with Ukrainian leaders. That's it. He talks to the Ukrainians.
- [57:59]
Joy Reid
He gets to hang with Bukele.
- [58:00]
Lev Parnas
Exactly. So, you know, I mean, it's, it's wide open. But the one thing I'll tell you, and it's very important for all your subscribers and your guests to know, there's right now an exodus happening. There's a. There's a two.
- [58:13]
Lunell
There's.
- [58:13]
Lev Parnas
What's formulating in the Trump circle right now is two groups. There's the groups that are going to the Die Hards, and those are the Cash Patels. Those are the Damon Gino. Not the Damages. I'm sorry, the Pam Bondies. No. Chris, Christy, Naom. You know those. And then you have the people like Bangino, like Susie Wiles and others that are trying to make their escape. Because I'm also hearing from other sources that there's going to be some major shift happening in January when it comes to the house. And these people are worried that that gavel might come on over to Hakeem quick. Quicker than we're saying if that happens, they know some of these people know what the next steps are going to be. And so there's a lot to unravel. And Joy will be. I. I promise you I'll be back as soon as. I'll be calling Ron right away as soon as I hear some breaking news.
- [59:05]
Joy Reid
Like, you know, the door is always open. My friend left. Parnas, my friend, thank you so much. We appreciate you come back often. Uh, and, uh, if I don't get to speak with you before then, uh, happy holidays and happy holidays.
- [59:16]
Lev Parnas
God bless you. Thank you, Joey, so much.
- [59:17]
Joy Reid
All right, y', all, he bring the tea every time. Uh, Lev Parnas, everybody. Thank very much. Now, before we end this hour. We are about to end the hour before we do it. I'm sure by now you have already seen this clip of Erica Erica Kirk attacking. Well, Here is D1.
- [59:34]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
You also learn some unexpected things, like the fact that Joy Reed probably needs a really, really good hug. And honestly, I'm here for it if she needs it. I got a good hug for you.
- [59:48]
Joy Reid
Good hug for you.
- [59:49]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
I'll even touch the back of your head.
- [59:52]
Lunell
Hold on, hold on.
- [60:01]
Joy Reid
No, no, no, no, no. First of all, my first response. It does come from the movie. Get out. Jason, please tee up. D2. This is my initial response.
- [60:09]
Lunell
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [60:16]
Joy Reid
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I do something. No, you can stop it there.
- [60:22]
Lunell
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [60:31]
Joy Reid
Absolutely not. Don't come near me. Don't touch me. Okay, first of all, do not. Now. Of herself her own self rubbing on the head back of J.D. vance, which was very intimate. In her hot pants. In her. In her. In her saucy hot pants or leather pants or pleather pants. While she was rubbing all on the back of J.D. vance's head, which a lot of people thought was curious. This is the very happy widow. She's a very, very happy widow who is out on an endless tour of the media. She did her little CBS thing with Bari Weiss where it was like an infomercial for Turning Point usa. And of course, for Israel, because, you know, we can't be blaming Israel for Charlie Kirk's murder. But she's also mad about the interview that I did with my friends Jennifer Welch and Pumps of I've had it here it is D4. So they can't have the successor to MAGA be the guy with the brown Hindu wife. They're also Christian nationalists. That ain't gonna work. That's why he's throwing his wife under the bus. Or Usha. Or she's in on it. Right? And she's playing slap and tickle with Erica. Kirk's the weirdest I've ever seen. Yeah, it's. She's like in her Tammy Faye era, okay? Holding on the back of his head and rubbing on some weird baby. Don't do that to Jason. I'm gonna start thinking something's going on. Why you holding the back of his head? I'm like you. You not doing that right there. You're supposed to be a widow. You in leather pants. That's not widowhear.
- [62:03]
Marina Lucerna
Could you imagine if.
- [62:05]
Joy Reid
Wouldn't it be the most perfect fairy tale maga? Fairy tale? Yeah. If he finally sees the light, that he needs a white queen instead of this brown Hindu. I mean, I'm not saying that's happening. Right? Or maybe that Usha's not even in on it. Maybe she's. Whatever. But that's one entrant. Another entrant is, Frankly, Donald Trump Jr. If he can, you know, you know, keep it together. Okay, I said what I said. Look, the reality is, it is not my fault that MAGA is so racist that they are literally attacking Usha Vance and sending JD Saying JD Vance should send her and her family back to India, like, daily on Elon Musk's X Twitter, okay? It is not me that's attacking Usha Vance's race. That is maga. The MAGA base cannot stand non white people, particularly non white immigrants. Poor Vivek Ramaswamy's out here trying to run for governor of Ohio. And just like you're a Hindu, go home. It's not me who's doing that. That's maga. Maga's the one doing the racism, not me. All I'm saying is the ultimate MAGA fairy tale would be for JD to leave Usha Vance alone and go run off with Charlie Kirk's widow. It brings the houses of MAGA together. You've got the Peter Thiel house that wants to end democracy and take the vote away from women, forcing them all back into the home to breed more American babies. Married to. Right. So you got the Peter Thiel wing, which is J.D. vance, and then you marry that to the Turning Points USA wing, whose only purpose, recall what Turning Point USA is. Charlie Kirk didn't create Turning Points usa. A very wealthy conservative did and he paid Charlie Kirk to leave junior college. Charlie Kirk does hate on folks who go to Harvard and who are a black woman with elite degrees. But he dropped out of junior college. Probably couldn't have gotten into Harvard. Not my fault, not my fault. But he was paid to leave junior college to start Turning Points USA for the purpose of converting young white Christians into right wing economic conservatives. Initially, what they were doing on these college campuses where his job was to go onto college campuses, though he was no longer a collegian, and try to debate and argue with particularly white students to get them to be conservative and to be economic conservatives. And that started, I think in 2012, he began that he gets this money from a very wealthy man who later turns out to be a big time tea partier who ends up dying, I think, because he didn't get the vax. So that's who really started Turning Point usa. Then big billionaires and major corporations and major right wing elite interests are pouring money into Turning Points usa. Most of their income came from those donations from the very, very wealth. And Turning Points USA didn't really catch hold until Charlie Kirk stopped just doing economic conservatism and started doing race and started attacking black people and saying black people were preying on people and robbing them and doing all kind of race politics, basically becoming a young Rush Limbaugh. Then it started to take off. Then he got some competition from Ben Shapiro's organization, which started in 2015, also funded by billionaires. Two Texas billionaires funded that one. The goal has always been, I'm going to go right back to where I started to get young, particularly white Christian Americans to side with the economic elite against who they should side with, which is fellow struggling people in this country who just don't happen to be white. And keeping that game going is all designed for one purpose and one purpose only to make sure that the economic elite can have untaxed wealth and no Regulations. It's literally only one story. No matter where I start, I'm going to end up right back there. And Erica Kirk is now the queen of this Turning Point USA kingdom. And so the challenge she's going to have is that the people that she is now out, Tammy Faying with and trying to convince to also go along with right wing MAGA economics, which is basically economics in which you want there to be an economic elite that has complete freedom and that has surveillance over the rest of us, and the rest of us just go along with it. But the big fight in MAGA is whether that elite and that organization is going to be pro Israel or they're going to leave Israel alone and just be America first. So she's now got to steer that ship of Turning Point USA to make sure that it can continue to get it somewhat $80 million a year in funding. And so what she's doing is she's making it more like Ben Shapiro's organization when it comes to foreign policy.
- [67:00]
Lunell
She's trying to make it profitable.
- [67:02]
Joy Reid
She's gonna keep it profitable by saying, no, no, don't worry, Charlie was never gonna turn on Israel and neither will I. So you, if you're pro apac, you can keep on giving the money, keep on giving us the money. Let's keep this chug thing going. Now the challenge she's going to have is that the people that she's preaching to don't believe women should work. So I don't know how that's going to work. She's like Candace Owens, you out there preaching women should be in the home, but your ass out there working. So now she's basically, and I'm just saying the perfect ending to this fairy tale for MAGA would be for her to combine with J.D. vance and create this sort of, you know, sort of super couple that could then inherit the MAGA kingdom because they sure as hell don't want the little brown lady to inherit it. But the last thing I will say to Erica Kirk is this. Dear young lady, I don't need a hug from you. First of all, I would never let you get close enough to hug me because I don't trust you. And second of all, I don't know if anybody ever told you you're pretty young, but don't be offering to touch black women's hair. We don't allow it. This is not the 1910s. It's not the 1920s or the 1930s. You cannot come up to me, touch me or touch my hair. It won't Go. I don't allow it. So don't offer to do that because that's not gonna happen. You need to take care of minding your business, which is to keep that $80 million rolling in. And figure out how you're gonna get those white Christian nationalists who follow Turning Point USA to understand why you working and not home with your children who now don't have a daddy. You are now a single mom, which they oppose. You're gonna have to now figure out how you're gonna explain to your Turning Point USA base why you working and why you out rubbing on JD Vance back of his head and offering to rub on the back of mine instead of home with your kids. Because their ideology is that your behind should be in your house. That's all I'm gonna say. I'm gonna close with this because the other thing she mad about is that we did have. We did have Mrs. Maddie J on and she might have said something like this. This is a D5.
- [69:12]
Marina Lucerna
Yeah.
- [69:14]
Joy Reid
See?
- [69:14]
Lunell
See, I studied healthonomics.
- [69:24]
Joy Reid
As do I. Moving on. This hour of the Joy Reid show is brought to you by. 120 Life Now. High Blood pressure. That is the crisis that's sitting at your holiday table right next to your Uncle Rob who's trying to talk politics while you trying to eat your overcooked turkey or maybe undercooked. High blood pressure is the number one risk for mortality in this country. Half of all adults, literally one in two have it. And as we head into the holidays, big meals, travel, stress, family chaos, all the things, chances are somebody at your table is dealing with high blood pressure. Even if they swear that holiday calories don't count, they actually kind of do. Now, why this matters right now is that December is basically a perfect storm, right? The stress, the salt, the sugar, just one more plate. Blood pressure spikes are extremely common this time of year, which makes it one of the best moments of to get yourself under control, get your numbers under control. And honestly, giving somebody better health is one of the most meaningful gifts that you can offer. And 120Life is one of those gifts. It's a once a day, great tasting, functional drink made with ingredients that help support healthy blood pressure. It's not a pill, it's not a gimmick. It works for people with high blood pressure and it is a smart choice for people with diabetes as well. The powdered version, which I've got right here, which is very tasty, you can mix it up in your stove. It offers you just one gram of sugar, which is Great. It's trusted by real doctors. Hundreds of Doctors actively recommend 120 life to their patients. More than a thousand health professionals have supported or endorsed its use. It's becoming a go to natural tool in the medical world. Gives you measurable results you can actually see. So grab your home BP monitor, drink 120 live daily for two weeks and watch your numbers move. We hear before and after stories all the time. It's one of the easiest health wins that's out there. It actually tastes good. It's refreshing. It's not chalky. It's literally delicious. You can make it into shake. You can just put some water in and just drink it. It's great. So here's the offer that we're doing for the holidays. You're going to get 20% off if at checkout you use the code joy if you're a lady or read if you're a dude. This holiday season, Christmas, New Year's Eve, all of it, New Year's can get listeners. Sorry, our listeners at the Joy Reid show can get 20% off your entire order at 120life.com by using the codes joy or read. Use one of the two codes. It's one simple offer. So that's all you got to do. Half the country's dealing with high blood pressure. Don't let that be you. So go to 120life.com, use the codes joy or read at checkoff to get 20% off. Try it risk free for two weeks. If your blood pressure does not come down, they'll give you a full refund. So there's nothing to lose except your blood pressure numbers. Use codes Joy or Reid for 20% off your order today. All right, so Donald Trump is giving himself lots and lots and lots of gifts for Christmas. One of the gifts that he really, really wants, and this is E1 for you, Jason, is the Kennedy Center.
- [72:12]
Lunell
I'm Congresswoman Joyce Beatty. I'm sitting here in my congressional office in Washington, D.C. just ending a call with the Kennedy center where I serve as an ex officio member. I am bringing this to you live today because what you may hear is that there was a unanimous vote to rename the Kennedy center the Trump Center. Be clear, I was on that call. And as I tried to push my button to voice my concern to ask questions and certainly not to vote in support of this, I was muted. At the end of the meeting. There was the announcement that there was going to be the renaming of the Kennedy center to the Trump Center. At that point, I said, I have Something to say and I was muted. And as I continued to try to unmute, to ask questions and voice my opposition to this, I received a note saying that I would not be unmuted.
- [73:13]
Joy Reid
So to be clear, you were cut off.
- [73:15]
Lunell
I was cut off. And then it was said that now the vote is unanimous. As an ex officio member, we do have a vote. I was, was not allowed to vote because I was muted. I would not have supported this. I would have asked several questions about this. And in traditional fashion we would have had someone talk about why they were doing this, that they had researched this. In my opinion, it is not legal for them to do this.
- [73:40]
Marina Lucerna
So we oversee their finances and we believe this is also. We also believe this is illegal. This is our living monument to Jeff jfk. We didn't build him another statue on the Mall. This is something that was built for him because of his dedication to the arts and creativity and free speech. So we are currently looking for any way we can push back as members of Congress, as a subcommittee that controls their finances. But we have found them very non transparent in terms of explaining exactly how they're spending the money they got in the big ugly bill or what ticket sales are or anything else going on there right now. Now as we know, they fired the entire board except the ex officio members, which they couldn't replace them with people who just went along with the President. But I think members of Congress are going to be outraged. I know we are. We're doing a sign on letter to ask our colleagues to say this is not legal, you can't do this.
- [74:29]
Joy Reid
And there's no ability to rename the.
- [74:32]
Lunell
Kennedy center the, you know, it's the same way you could try to rename the Lincoln Memorial.
- [74:37]
Joy Reid
Right.
- [74:38]
Lunell
People can say it did.
- [74:40]
Joy Reid
It doesn't mean that that actually happened. The name is protected by federal law and federal statute. And that obviously hasn't been changed.
- [74:45]
Lunell
He can call an apple a banana.
- [74:47]
Joy Reid
He can say down is up or they can say it, whatever that is.
- [74:50]
Lunell
That doesn't make it, make it the case. It's tragic that in the challenges that.
- [74:54]
Joy Reid
We'Re confronting, an affordability crisis where energy.
- [74:57]
Lev Parnas
Rates are high, groceries are high, housing is high.
- [75:02]
Joy Reid
What apparently seems to maintain the President's attention is putting his name on a building and not advocating protecting and fighting the people that animate it. Amen. Joining me now is Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley representing the great Massachusetts 7th district. She serves on the powerful House Committee on Financial Services as well as the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability Seems like we need some oversight on this particular topic. Congresswoman, your thoughts on this? Because my understanding is that only Congress could rename the Kennedy Center.
- [75:31]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
That's right. You know, we are a nation of laws, even though we have an occupant in the Oval Office that seems seeks to degrade, undermine, and to defy them at every single turn. And he just wants to slap his name. I mean, look, he can't just slap his name on things like he has his failed and bankrupted businesses. I mean, what an insecure man. He just wants to put his name on everything except for the hardship that he's causing everyday people because he's not focused on the right thing and doing his damn job. Just more deflection, more distraction. And as for muting my sister colleague, my link sister there, Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, the great Joyce Beatty of, of Ohio. Not surprising, because they, they seek at every turn to silence black women, both literally and figuratively. And so I'm so glad that she came out vigorously in condemnation for the action and made sure that people were aware of exactly what transpired in that meeting.
- [76:33]
Joy Reid
Indeed. And God bless Joyce Beatty. She literally went live, like almost immediately to let people know what had happened. It is really horrendous. One of the other things Trump is trying to put his slap his name on, to use your words, is the Affordable Care Act. It is very clear that the reason that your Republican colleagues in the House didn't even let a bill to keep the premium supports get through the House, let alone get to the Senate where Senate Democrats gave in, and let them reopen the government, you know, on a promise they'd get to vote on it because they want it to fail so that Donald Trump can create something called trumprx.com what the hell is that? Excuse my language. And what can now be done about Affordable Care act premiums supports?
- [77:18]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Yeah, he doesn't know what it is either. You know, this administration is as chaotic and callous as they are completely clueless. Clueless about the needs of working people, of every person that calls this country home. You know, Joy, our greatest wealth as a nation is the health of our people. And even though the data has been provided that those who receive their health care through the Affordable Care act or Obamacare marketplace, many of them do live in red states, just as the same case was made when it comes to SNAP beneficiaries and Medicaid recipients. So they continue to defy logic, they continue to not listen to their constituents, and they do so at their peril politically. But moreover, they are doing it at the peril of every person who calls this country home. Because health care is not a nice to have. It's a must have. It is a human right. And people will go undiagnosed. People will not have critical interventions and treatments. My mother's Heavenly birthday was December 17th. Shout out to, to all the sages out there. And we lost her far too young at the age of 60 after a battle with CLL leukemia. But I've met so many people that are living with very serious chronic, you know, diseases and terminal illnesses. And they said, I'm so afraid that my very life, you know, my ability to still be here with my family, to fight for my life hangs in the balance. And my destiny is in the hands of someone who was completely void of empathy. And here's the thing. I mean, they're cowards too. If they had an ounce of, I don't know, maybe they have enough sense joy to be shameful enough to run and hide, because that's what they do every single time. Today we were supposed to have votes in the House. We were supposed to be in session, but they've adjourned and gone on to their holiday, much as they did with a federal government shutdown instead of putting to the floor a vote on three year extension for the Affordable Care act subsidies. Subsidies. And of course, today in my role, the Committee on Oversight and Reform, we've been working actively through subpoenas and of course through the actions of a discharge petition that four federal judges said to release the Epstein files. Those are supposed to be released in full, you know, today by the Department of Justice by midnight. So whether you're talking about the Kennedy center, whether you're talking about their deflection and distraction, whether you're talking about their disconnect from the needs of everyday people, or whether you're talking about them creating safe haven for, for predators and pedophiles instead of censoring survivors, as my grandmother would say if she were still here, is just trifling.
- [80:14]
Joy Reid
Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. And you know, as we, you know, as Christians, are about to celebrate, you know, the birth of the Palestinian Jewish refugee Jesus of Nazareth, you know, it is interesting, this show, kind of theme of this show is the people who own the country, the billionaire class who believe at least that they own the country, essentially playing in our faces while the mediocrities in the Republican Party, their little minions, run around doing laws that no one would vote for and doing things no one would vote for. And Donald Trump just being the inner. The entertainer.
- [80:48]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
I do want to say, though, Joy, there are cracks. I mean, I know, you know, people are. Listen, it doesn't. People don't care. All they know is that they're hurting. And we have to make sure they're clear about who are the architects, you know, of that harm. And it is this Republican majority. We have colleagues that are more concerned with keeping their jobs than doing them because they are daily in fear of the politic, of retribution and revenge of Donald Trump. But there are cracks. I mean, this is why we did have four people of conscience. I don't even like to say Dems versus Republicans, Joy, because there's not a Republican Party. There's just maga, a cult of congressional cowards complicit in wholesale harm. But four people of conscience did cross the aisle to signed that discharge petition to force a vote. And their incompetent, indifferent Speaker, Mike Johnson, adjourned the House.
- [81:44]
Joy Reid
Yeah, I mean, and the point, I think you make an excellent point is that you are seeing people start to break away from that horrible faith that what I think is a religious cult. But you. But the protection of the elite goes not just to protecting the Epstein files and whoever's in them. You have a report out about pardons, because one of the things Donald Trump and the Supreme Court did say he could sell pardons. I mean, they made it clear he can commit whatever crime he wants. But it does seem that there's a quid pro quo happening. Someone pays Donald Trump's friends, and suddenly a scammer is free to walk. To free to walk. Whether it's a crypto scammer that then turns around and invests in Donald Trump's crypto company, whether it's the former president of Honduras who's a major drug dealer, he gets to walk despite Trump being willing to go to war with Maduro, lying and saying that he's the source of fentanyl. It seems to be just transactional. But you found that there's more than just transaction here. Talk about what's going on with these pardons.
- [82:36]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Yeah. Well, first, let me just say the reason why my office and I thank my dedicated A team staff for putting this together. But the reason why we wanted to put this report on Trump and clemency and pardons and commutations is this is an area that I've long, you know, worked in and fought for. I pushed President Biden on this alongside advocates and impacted families. And There were some 1500 people under President Biden that were granted clemency 2500 sentences that were commuted and some 39 souls that we were able to get off of death row. So President Biden, although he did not do it at the pace and move as quickly as Donald Trump is, he did use the tool of clemency, of pardons, of commutations, in a restorative, reparative way, which is how it should be used to undo harm, to make sure the people that have been the most harm by mass incarceration are the ones to benefit. And Donald Trump is skirting and circumventing that process. Only 17. 17 people have actually, he's not pardoned anyone that's gone through the process. There is an application process. Right. And so he has pardoned people that are his political allies, that are wealthy and well connected, and he continues to make history for all the wrong reasons. He granted the first ever pardon to a corporation, to a multi million dollar global crypto company. You know, and again, only 17 people. So I wanted to get the percentage right. That's 0.088% were granted clemency through the Department of Justice application process. So, so all, all the others, the, the 1500. So he's moved at a faster, you know, rate than other presidents, but he's making history for all the wrong reasons. What about the January 6th insurrectionist, by the way? Not only were they pardoned, many of them have gone on to commit violent offenses. So you don't care about public safety. Yeah, and 85% of those who have been pardoned are white people. Of course, 85%. And only nine of them were people who had committed drug offenses. And then finally, Joy, we do have a pardon czar and her name is Alice Johnson and she is someone who was incarcerated for 20 years for first time non violent drug offense. And so I wanted this report because that which gets measured, gets done. It's important to shine a light on the misuse of this powerful and transformative tool, the corruption of it all. But also to call on the pardon czar, someone who has live this and knows that families deserve to be reunited and people who have been rehabilitated and, and, and we believe in second chances have an opportunity to make a positive contribution.
- [85:48]
Joy Reid
That is important and I'm, I appreciate you doing that. And this is something I definitely would love to follow up with you on because, yeah, he's pardoning people that seem to be paying into the system or paying into his friends to do it. And leaving aside this sort of response, restorative justice, he could do with that power. One more question Before I do have two more questions for you. One of them on this question of immigration. We are now seeing more and more evidence that even American citizens, US Citizens, are being detained and even deported. You're on the oversight Committee. When you all are reconvening or if you all are able to meet without the speaker allowing it, what can be done about that? That.
- [86:29]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Well, you know, what we have found is one, when we make sure that we are investing in mutual aid, we're getting people counsel. Look, if somebody's disappeared from your community, go and see about them. And that's. And that's exactly what I've done in my district when this has happened many times over and by engaging pro bono legal counsel because it is a violation of people's due process. Look, I just want to say this to folks. If you care about mass incarceration, and that's what we're just talking about here with clemency, you have got to care about not mass deportation because there's a violation of due process, but mass kidnapping. Yes, that, that, that is degrading a due process for everyone. And that is what. And they are both one coin. Two sides of a for profit benefit. The same people that are incentivized to lock up poor folk and black and brown folks and benefit from that financially. Those corporations are the same ones incentivized when you're talking about these detention facilities. So what can be done? We fight, Joy. The main thing is that if you just say there's nothing that can be done, that these things are an inevitability, they win because a dictator wants us to be ignorant and uninformed, indifferent to the suffering of our neighbors and inactive. So we have to resist, reject, condemn, and not normalize this. We can't just say that's just Trump being Trump. You know, ICE is racist and rogue. We have no idea who these mass people are out here disappearing.
- [88:12]
Lunell
People.
- [88:15]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
That are seeking asylum, which is a legal right. People that are undocumented and people that are citizens who they won't even afford them the opportunity to show their papers. They're showing up at courthouses. I mean, in my district is very diverse, Joy. So I have parts of my district that have really been under siege. In the city of Chelsea alone, it's just the terror and the fear. 300 students from Chelsea High School are no longer at school. They're just not showing up.
- [88:47]
Joy Reid
Yeah, it is terrifying. And I think people have watched your servant leadership and have been impressed by your ability and willingness to speak out strongly in favor of Justice. And I think for those who live Outside of the 7th district, my exit question to you, I think comes not just from me, but probably from everyone else in Massachusetts. Are you gonna run for the United States Senate? Are you interested in running for the United States Senate? There is a rumor that you are going to do it. Are you going to do it?
- [89:11]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
I am running for reelection. I believe my work in the House is unfinished. I never say never. Certainly sometime in the future. But right now we have.
- [89:23]
Joy Reid
What do we got?
- [89:23]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Count them. Seven, eight black women running for the United States Senate right now. And I'm going to be working hard to make sure that the House gets back into the majority and do everything I can can to help get my sister, especially my little sister Jasmine Crockett there over the finish line. So we can plus up our numbers in the House, Joy, because we keep, you know, Congress and I gotta defend Article 1 of the Constitution. Congress is a co. Equal branch of government and they are coming for black people. Power and progress coming after our seats. As many as 30 Congressional Black Caucus seats are in limbo right now as we awaited decision on voting rights. And while we're in the midst of this unlawful redistricting. So my work on the House is unfinished and I'm gonna, you know, play my position here.
- [90:07]
Joy Reid
All right, well, look, I tried. For those of you who are. Who are literally seeing her on here and in my phone, being like, is she running or not? I'm literally asking for the people in my phone. I will let you know. Thank you so much, Congresswoman. We appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. That is loving Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley. Let me tell you, she's a. She's. She will give you the fire hot fire. Hot to fire. But you know who else will give you hot fire? Fonny Willis. Have y' all seen this Testimony today? Jason's F1, if you can throw it up there. The date that I have is January 24th of 2022. Does that seem like it's within the range of being the correct. So I already stated I don't trust you. I understand you're trying to run for Lieutenant Governor right now. Anything you want me to testify to, I'm going to need to see. Okay.
- [90:55]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Were you aware that in between the.
- [90:56]
Joy Reid
Time of the special grand jury being sworn in and receiving evidence, Mr. Wade traveled to Athens, Georgia to meet with officials from the White House Counsel's office? I don't recall.
- [91:09]
Lunell
On the right hand side here is.
- [91:11]
Joy Reid
Is the meeting that I reference Highlighted section reads, travel to Athens. Comp with what? How does this assist you in developing laws for Georgia? Because I believe the purpose that I'm here for is because you all need assistance in doing your job, and you want assistance with rules and regulations around how people should be a prosecutor. And it made sense to me that you'd come to the best prosecutor in the state to ask for some advice. But I'm confused as to how this assists you in what the purpose of me being here is. The committee has a broad purpose. I'd be happy to refer to counsel as to the overall purpose of the committee, but my question for you is, as it relates, I don't think it's relevant, so I'm objecting on relevance.
- [91:53]
Lunell
She's asking. Answer that. She's told you that the TUI process goes through the White House Counsel's office. She's asking. It's been asked and answered.
- [92:05]
Joy Reid
And it's your testimony today that the Travel to Athens conference with the White House counsel, as far as you were aware, was. Was due to a part of this TUI process that the governor's referencing? I've testified. I don't recall anything about this.
- [92:17]
Lev Parnas
Okay.
- [92:19]
Joy Reid
And I don't see how it's relevant to what your alleged purpose is. Now, your real purpose is to try to get elected, which I would say, georgia, please, let's elect any lieutenant governor, but this. So it's your testimony today that you and Mr. Wade did not have any.
- [92:39]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Conversations prior to you taking office relative.
- [92:42]
Joy Reid
To an investigation into the 2020 election?
- [92:46]
Lunell
Don't answer that. That is a deliberative privilege of what goes on in a district attorney's mind in the process.
- [92:53]
Joy Reid
She wasn't district attorney.
- [92:54]
Lunell
She was it.
- [92:56]
Joy Reid
Prior to being sworn in. She was district attorney.
- [92:59]
Lunell
No, she was not. But you.
- [93:00]
Joy Reid
You return to my question.
- [93:03]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Prior to you being sworn as district.
- [93:05]
Joy Reid
Attorney, is it your testimony today that you did not have any conversation with Mr. Wade about investigating the 2020 election?
- [93:17]
Lunell
Do you want to answer? It's a dumbass question. I know it is, but go ahead and tell him, because it occurred after she took office.
- [93:26]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
But I didn't know that he was.
- [93:28]
Joy Reid
Going to commit a crime prior to me taking office. Like, factually, it's impossible. Okay. Thank you, Screen. I don't review those documents. So you're asking me to look at documents that I haven't for the first time. What I can tell you is that I'll give you time, Mr. Way to bill. 160 hours a week. And then Mr. Wade would be the first one in the office, making sure that my staff arrived. He corrected their behavior.
- [93:55]
Lunell
They thought that 8:30 meant 8:30.
- [93:57]
Joy Reid
He taught him that 8:30 means 7:45. He got there before them.
- [94:01]
Lunell
He left after him.
- [94:03]
Joy Reid
He taught them how to do this case. And he was a leader to that team and a public servant.
- [94:09]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
And for that, him, like me, has.
- [94:11]
Joy Reid
Been threatened thousands of times. You want something to investigate as a.
- [94:15]
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley
Legislature, investigate how many times they've called.
- [94:17]
Joy Reid
Me the N word. Why don't you investigate that? Why don't you investigate them writing on my house? Why don't you investigate the fact that.
- [94:24]
Lunell
My house has been swatted? If you want something to do with.
- [94:26]
Joy Reid
Your time, that makes sense. And you can use all this in your campaign ad. You attacked Fannie Willis. What have you done, sir? Nothing. So I'll refer you to the screen. I know you said you don't approve.
- [94:38]
Lunell
I don't review these bills.
- [94:40]
Joy Reid
So this. I can't talk to you about documents I don't approve and don't review. Can't talk to you about it. Who does approve the documents in your office when the voices come in.
- [94:48]
Lunell
I thought we'd been through this.
- [94:50]
Joy Reid
I don't believe you said who reviews the invoices and approves the invoices in your. First of all, I have no firsthand knowledge of it.
- [94:57]
Lunell
You have no firsthand.
- [94:58]
Joy Reid
Want me to testify about something I don't have any firsthand knowledge of? I'm asking. Okay, let's leave it there. Fy will is everybody. The Fulton county district attorney and her spicy white lawyer, former Democratic governor Roy Barnes. They were up there putting on a clinic in how you stand up to a fool who's asking you dumb questions that you don't want to answer because they don't even make sense. Put her on the White House press corps. Let her question Donald Trump. It is my dream. Joining me now, speaking of people who speak their minds without filtering, one of the great comedians, Lunel. She is currently on tour. You can catch her on Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy Club in Vegas, at Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy Club in Vegas on the 21st and at City Winery in the great city in New York City on December 27th. Hey, Lunel.
- [95:53]
Lunell
Hey, there. Hey there.
- [95:54]
Joy Reid
Hey there. So I don't know if you have thoughts on Fani Willis and her ability to cut through the garbage that was being thrown at her today, but I want to let you speak on it if you feel like it.
- [96:07]
Lunell
Oh, I think she's delicious. I thought that she was, you know, Nothing makes the ops more angrier than an educated black person. That just really gets under their skin. And I find great joy in people who can spar with the ops like she just did or our great Jasmine Crockett. So I. I quite enjoyed that last service. Thank. Thank you very much. You gave me a headache now. It gave me a headache. You know, I wouldn't have been able to handle it because, you know, I. I have a. A proclivity to use profane language and also to throw things.
- [96:52]
Joy Reid
So, I mean, it would have been appropriate when you look at this year. Well, first of all, before I get to that, I want to. I want to get you to look back a little bit on the. The stories that you think were the most impactful. But you mentioned Jasmine Crockett. What do you make of the. The people who are sowing a lot of doubt about Jasmine Crockett's run for the United States Senate in Texas?
- [97:14]
Lunell
Well, they're doing their job as being the ops. You know, they don't want to.
- [97:20]
Joy Reid
See.
- [97:21]
Lunell
See, there's a. There's a lack of real intelligence permeating through the political genre right now. There's a lack of common sense. There's a lack of empathy. There's a lack of, you know, just.
- [97:45]
Joy Reid
Any.
- [97:45]
Lunell
Anything to do with. I'm gonna go back again. Common sense and common sense, education, experience run through both of these. All three. All, you know, your veins.
- [98:00]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [98:01]
Lunell
And they really just can't stand it. Plus, let's throw in being a woman in this boys club of politics. It's been time for a change. It's definitely time for a change right now. I don't know how anybody is still riding with the lack of leadership that we have right now. They're fooling themselves. They're trying to legitimize what is ridiculous. And if we are to have another election, because don't forget this current president was voted in not once, but twice. And the Make America Great Again MAGA genre they thought would not affect them, would only affect us. And so make America great again, if I may be blunt, Make America white again. Let's make America, you know, because white is right and everything is pure and snowy and all that. When America is a melting pot and we. We are the greatest country because of that, because of the diversity, because of the inclusion and all that is being wiped out. I mean, this plaques in the White House under the former president's portraits that are like clickbait. It's just so anybody who's still fooling themselves, like any of this is okay, I have dismissed from my life, friends and relatives.
- [99:48]
Joy Reid
I, I get it because, you know, they're exhausting to be around. And the plaques that Lunel is talking about. Donald Trump has put a wall of fame in the tacky the White House, which he has made incredibly tacky. Everywhere is gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold.
- [99:59]
Lunell
Looks like Mar a Lago.
- [100:01]
Joy Reid
It looks like Mar a Lago, but like even worse than Mar a Lago. Super tacky. But he's done this sort of wall of fame where he puts the portraits of previous presidents and then puts like shade under them against the former presidents, especially Obama and Biden. I want to ask you, as a performer, just as a person that is in the arts and as an artist, your thoughts on Donald Trump on the website, on the White House website, which is the other place they're trolling people, they have claimed to have renamed the Kennedy center to be the Donald Trump center, taken John F. Kennedy's name off and put Donald Trump name on, and then they had their self appointed board of directors or board of overseers mute. Joyce Beatty, Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, who was on the call so that the Trump lackeys could vote to rename it, which of course is illegal. Only Congress can do it. But your thoughts on him trying to steal the Kennedy center for himself?
- [100:57]
Lunell
He also wants to be on Mount Rushmore.
- [101:00]
Joy Reid
Yes, he does. He does.
- [101:03]
Lunell
I mean, okay, the thing that kills me, just like with predators and people who help them, at what point do the people say no? Like when the construction company got the contract to tear down the Jackie Kennedy section of the White House and build a ballroom, at what point? Even though there's money involved and all this, which it's not notorious for paying his bills, by the way. At what point do you say, you know, I'm not going to be involved in that. I'm not doing that. The people who made the plaques to go under the portraits, why didn't they say, no, I don't want to be involved in that. Money is the root of all evil. And apparently they don't care where it comes from.
- [101:51]
Joy Reid
The love of money is the root of all evil.
- [101:53]
Lunell
Like the love of money. Yeah, money's great, money's fantastic. But the love of money is, is, is a terrible thing. As a comedian, I don't, I do speak. I, I spoke on politics more before the Charlie Kirk murder because after that people were very in their feelings and very, very sensitive. And I'm not doing comedy to do politics. I'm doing comedy to make people Laugh and forget about politics, actually, at least for an hour. However, I do throw some jabs in there. And being that I work for, partially work for a man whose whole stance is freedom of speech, that would be Jimmy Kimmel. I've not been censored one time in the five years that I've been at his club or the two that I'm contracted to do in the future. So I. I don't really get off into it a lot on stage. But here's the thing. Don't ask me if you don't want to know what I think. Just don't ask me, because I'm gonna tell you.
- [103:13]
Joy Reid
Yes, I know. That's right. And. And the thing about it is, you know, and I'm glad you mentioned Jimmy Kimmel, because we're at this point where, right. The whole goal of comedy going, you know, Richard Pryor on, Eddie Murphy, you name it. They. Paul Mooney, Paul Mooney, come on. They skewer powerful people. And, you know, in the past, you know, Richard Nixon went on laughing. You know, he understood that he was the butt of some jokes, and he was willing to laugh along. This is the first president, I would say, who literally not only cannot take a joke, but will try to punish people for making jokes about him.
- [103:48]
Lunell
If George Carlin were still here, listen, he would be doing a whole rant about this whole thing. You know, the man has no sense of humor. If he does, I'm sure it's racist humor. He's. You know, the things I would say about him. I mean, this is coming, this type of attitude and the attitude of terrorists and, and all this, I believe, is sexually rooted or the lack thereof, I should say, because a man who is confident in the bedroom, a man whose wife shows love and affection to him, which this does not happen with the couple that I have seen. A man who can walk with his chest out and, And, And. And know that he is indeed a man does not act like a bully.
- [104:45]
Joy Reid
Or.
- [104:47]
Lunell
Incompetent, impotent loser. He's acting like a loser. Anybody who goes against him and says any little thing, he's just a bully. And, you know, I'm quite sure, you know, I think I'm way, way, way, way, way, way down on the scale. But I'm even careful about what I say on my phone to the AI and all that. You never know what's going on. And I don't need to be followed because I have retaliators as well.
- [105:21]
Joy Reid
Right. No, I totally hear you. And it's an interesting time to be doing comedy. Have you found that in this environment where Hollywood is shying away from projects, you know, you just flip on Netflix, you're like, ooh, there's like the one sort of, you know, sort of prominent show with a black cast is the Diddy documentary, you know, and it's number one. But do you find that that's impacted you, this sort of attitude that corporate America is taking where they are complying in advance against dei, is that impacted comedy for you?
- [105:53]
Lunell
No, it has not impacted comedy for me because I have for a long, long time had mixed audiences. There's, you know, different groups of white people, just different groups of black people. The white people who come see me are like minded white people. The Latinos that come see me are like minded Latinos. The black people who come see me, which are generally older, because I'm not really aiming my comedy at the young folk. I don't do colleges. I don't try to appeal to the tick tock generation. I feel that people of my age need a cheerleader and a spokesperson as well. And that is why I tried to do grown up comedy to where grown people can understand and dig it. I have a very, you know, a lot of comedians and a lot of people who are not raised in mixed communities don't know how to really deal with the masses of white folks, if you know what I mean. I went to all white schools. I'm educated. I have a bachelor of arts degree in English lit. And, and, and I'm not, I'm not scared of the white man, if you know what I'm saying. But if you were raised in a rural southern atmosphere and you really never had to interact with white folks on a everyday basis and not in a sub, subservient sort of basis, then you may not attract that type of crowd. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [107:27]
Joy Reid
Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Well, let's talk about this year. What has stood out to you as being like, what are the like three biggest stories that have caught your attention this year from whether it's politics or not?
- [107:41]
Lunell
Well, let's see. Of course, the Diddy thing has been big. The Epstein files, sexual predators and weird has stood out to me a lot. Yeah, you know, I would say.
- [108:03]
Joy Reid
Of.
- [108:03]
Lunell
Course, this, you know, a distancing from. What is it called? Was it Oprah just did a thing on stepping away from toxicity in your family or in your relationships. That, that's been a big thing on my mind and it's affected some people in my family as well, stepping away.
- [108:26]
Joy Reid
From your actual family members if they just. If they. If they stress you out.
- [108:31]
Lunell
Say that again.
- [108:32]
Joy Reid
You mean stepping away from, like, your own family members if they stress you.
- [108:35]
Lunell
Out, app so lutely. Oh, yeah. Because you can have family members that are jealous. You can have family members that are constantly needy. You can have family members who act up. And I'm not talking about sometime, like all the time. Well, at one point, if you're smart, you have to say, I can't deal with this no more. And you are not obligated to deal with toxicity just because somebody's in your family.
- [109:13]
Joy Reid
There you go. Amen. Amen. All right, that's two. All right, give me a third one. Give me a third one. You're hitting me with some knowledge here. Give me a third one.
- [109:19]
Lunell
Let's see. I think, Gosh, probably. Well, Jimmy's situation.
- [109:33]
Joy Reid
Yeah, yeah.
- [109:34]
Lunell
That was a big thing. Now, you know, this is December. A lot has happened since January.
- [109:39]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [109:40]
Lunell
And I hadn't. You know, I talk about a lot of things that deal with me, not a lot of stuff that deal with outside. You know, some things didn't happen this year in my comedy, I talk about the submarine incident, the submersible. I talk about the Olympics. And we're coming up with them again now, you know, and our good girl, you know, The track. The track. Sha' Carri Richardson. Yes.
- [110:21]
Joy Reid
Sorry.
- [110:21]
Lunell
I love it when a hood rat wins. And just there's so many things to think about. I didn't. You know, a lot of people get the questions ahead of time. I don't. So just. Those are just some things that come to my mind right now. I'm sure when I hang up, I'll be like, oh, I should have said this and that and this and that. But just those things right now.
- [110:44]
Joy Reid
I feel like people in the chat are very interested in your take on letting go of family members that are in your way or that are bothering you. You. What is your advice as a comedian and as. As you said, somebody who tries to speak to the grown folks out there, how do you place this distance? If you have people in your family that are getting. That are driving you up the wall and you need distance, how do you do it?
- [111:06]
Lunell
Well, you don't. You know, it depends on the level of toxicity. See, I'm the eighth of eight children. Okay. I have four brothers and three sisters. And if. And. And I live in California and Nevada. I'm in LA right now, but I'm going back to Las Vegas in about three hours. My Sisters live in Texas. My brothers live in Kansas City, Arkansas and Texas. So I don't have to deal with any of them in an excess basis. But if you have one or two, or you have a cousin or you have a. A niece or a nephew, and if they are not advancing, if they're not adding to your life or to theirs, and if they seem stagnant and stuck in a place that, you know, should. It should have been let go long time ago, then you have a choice whether you want to deal with that or not. That doesn't mean you don't say Merry Christmas. That doesn't mean. Or sometime it does. It doesn't mean you don't say happy birthday. Or sometimes it does. If you're the only one saying happy birthday and then they never say happy birthday to you, maybe don't say it next year. You know what I mean? And see how that goes. It's not going to hurt anybody. I. I think that you're. You know, we are in an era of mental health right now. We've never really talked about mental health as much as we're talking about it now. And also since COVID Covid, you had to learn how to be by yourself. Covid, you had to learn how to be in very close proximity to only a tiny bit of people that you can deal with or that you choose to deal with or whatever. Everybody that came out of COVID didn't rekindle all them relationships fair. They let them go. You know, I had friends that. Okay, so I have this Prince. Prince tattoo on my hand, right. A lot of people think that I have it on there because I love Prince. I do love Prince. I love Michael Jackson as well. That's why. I bet. But the reason I have the Prince tattoo in my hand is when George, Floyd, Ahmaud, Arbery, Mike Brown, Brianna and everybody was getting murdered. It was a very hurtful time, and I felt like we were in a revolution. Prince had a band called the Revolution. So I wanted to remember this time in history. So that is why I got the Prince symbol. Now, my white friends, some of them that didn't reach out and say, oh, my God, Lunell, this is terrible. How must you be feeling? Is there anything that we can do? What should we do? This is a terrible situation. My. My white friends, some of them fell silent, and their silence spoke louder than anything they could say. And I let them stay silent, and I don't fool with them no more.
- [114:25]
Joy Reid
Well, that is a word. Lunell, we love you. Tell us more about where we can see you. I know you've got these two upcoming dates. Let the people know where they can see you if they want to and.
- [114:35]
Lunell
Where they can get tickets from February until August. Because I'm taking January and August up from February till August, including this, this weekend and next weekend, you can catch me at my ongoing residency in Las Vegas at Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy club every Sunday and Monday night at 10pm I'm also the day after Christmas on the 26th. I'm flying to New York to perform on the 27th at the City Winery in New York City. One night, two shows. One is already sold out, the other one is on its way. New Year's Eve, I'll be at the Ari Crown Theater in Chicago. Burr. And you can get tickets to any of that at my website, which is heylunell.com h e y l u e n e l l.com and by the way, it always surprises me how many people I have to spell hey for.
- [115:41]
Joy Reid
Got it up on the screen. So if y' all don't know how to spell hey or you now it's right on the screen. Just look.
- [115:45]
Lunell
Amen.
- [115:46]
Joy Reid
Amen. Amen. Happy Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy holidays, Happy New Year, and I will see you in 2026.
- [115:53]
Lunell
I can't wait for you to see me in person so I can have you enjoy me the way I enjoy you. And it's a pleasure and I can't wait to meet you.
- [116:02]
Joy Reid
Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to it. We're gonna make it happen. Thank you, sister. We appreciate you. Jason, please, a round of applause for the great Lunell. We appreciate her so much. The Chad is loving her. All right, y', all, we have come to that point in the program where it is time for our moment of joy and our moment of joy on this final show before Christmas. And just to remind you all, we will not have a show at all next week. We are giving the team a very well earned.
- [116:25]
Lunell
We need a break, y'.
- [116:26]
Joy Reid
All.
- [116:26]
Lunell
We definitely need a break.
- [116:27]
Joy Reid
We have not been off. Do you guys know? We have been working, like really seven days a week to get this show up. Three days a week. We've been working non stop since June was really since before then to even get the June 9 show done. Since May of this year, actually.
- [116:40]
Lunell
Since you left Ms. Oh, really?
- [116:41]
Joy Reid
Since. Yeah, we've been setting this up since I left Ms. And we've been like, really, really working hard and our little team needs a break. So we are going to be off Next week, but we will rejoin you. We're going to do one more show before the end of the year so we can ring in just before the new year. I've just apparently been asked to be part of Don Lemon's a big New Year's Eve show. So I will pop into Don Lemon's live show New Year's Eve. Can I tell you exactly what time? But you know I'm still gonna be here. You know I'm still on all the socials, so y', all, you know, you can follow me all them places. I'm still gonna be here because I'm a workaholic. You know what I do, how we do. But we're going to give the team well earned year off. I have to tell you, one of the things I have done though, is since Donald Trump, since they're giving out awards that don't mean anything, I'm giving myself and Jason one. Jason, you can pick whichever one you like. We're giving ourselves the Nobel Peace Prize. We have created the TJRSP prize. You guys will find out next year that there's been only one winner so far who's ever won it. We have a big interview that's going to be dropping on January 6th. The one and only winner of the TJRSPACE prize will be our big show on the 6th of January. I'm not going to tell you who that is. You're just going to have to come back and find out in the new year who are one and only winner of the TJRS Peace Prize is. But you know what? We figure since we've already awarded a winner, we're gonna award Jason and me and also the team. The team will all be Peace Prize winners because you know what? And we bought these because of seven. And no one's ever won it. No one else was nominated. There's only been one winner. I'm gonna put mine on just like Trump. I'm gonna put it on right now. I can't even wait. Donald Trump couldn't wait. Neither can I. Nor can I. I'm gonna put it right on my chest right now and declare myself to be the champion of peace of the world. And with that. And by the way, can we show Jason. Do we have a picture of one of our wonderful wearing Joy friends? There we go. Look at this gorgeous, gorgeous person who I have now. I've also followed you on social media. Thank you very much for being our wearing Joy model spokesmodel, as it were. Thank you very much. We really do appreciate that and if you all want to show off your fabulous wear and I'm wearing the exact same thing. I wanted to twin out. We're twinsing out with this friend. I got to get closer to it so I can read it. It's Melissa Prunty. Melissa Prunty Kemp. Melissa Prunty Kemp. We are twinsing out. I've got my cup. I've got my gear. I've got my fabulous zip up, zip front hoodie. If you all want to pick up your own good stuff at.
- [119:14]
Lev Parnas
We may have to start putting that.
- [119:15]
Joy Reid
That bracelet around your neck.
- [119:17]
Lunell
I would know Metal. Metal up on the shop or something.
- [119:20]
Joy Reid
Yeah, we may have to get ourselves a metal. We'll make a metal that literally just says tjrs. Yeah, Peace prize. We'll make one. It costs like seven bucks. So we can. We can afford it on our. On our new media budget. We can afford it. And, you know, since Trump and them are giving out medals for. To people who haven't earned them. And we can do it too. I mean, why not? And also, we would love to give a medal to every person, single person in the chat. We love our team, TJRS members, all of our readers, everybody that is in the chat. We appreciate y'. All. We appreciate you. Also, if you're chatting on substacks, this has been a really great year. We have enjoyed every minute of it. We've really enjoyed you guys. Thank you so much for all the support. We have traversed 380,000 followers. We're so excited about that. We are climbing, climbing, climbing our way toward a million followers. And we're going to get there because of you guys. So we want to thank you all very much. And with that, our moment of joy is coming to you. It's one of our favorites, our favorite heiferologist who is bringing the yuletide spirit to the heifers of the world. Mrs. Maddie J. Is our moment of joy way.
- [120:31]
Lunell
Now, even though this song came out in the 70s, lonely helpers walked ever since Jesus was a toddler and folks Santa Claus were a. The heifer's entire focus is to meet that feeling of emptiness by any means necessary. Whether it's your man or a male man, it's gonna be somebody man pours over with. I ain't talking about all women, nor am I even speaking of just lonely women in general. I'm talking about hell and the spirit of heiferism that they wear without shame or recourse, especially around the holiday.
- [121:24]
Joy Reid
Because.
- [121:24]
Lunell
Heifers just can't stand not having A man. Especially when it's cold outside. If not but just to be able to tell somebody she got one. And it never matters whose man it is. But I want you to listen to Master J. Cause I ain't about to start or stumble when I say it. Al heifer make her presence made known the hermit by shaking her tail feathers and trying to spread more than good chill. She gonna meet what I call the fine old ministry. Huh? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And I'm gonna fold it up. Yeah. Pound cake bringing Jingle bell clanging Mistletoe hanging Doorbell ringing Helper Keep your good eye on baby.
- [122:24]
Joy Reid
Keep your. What do the lonely do at Christmas? Apparently they heiferate. And the heiferologist, Mrs. Maddie J. Who is a chief heiferologist, is gonna catch him every time. Don't mess with Herman. But that's her man.
- [122:43]
Lunell
She'll cut you.
- [122:44]
Joy Reid
She'll cut you. She'll cut you. And don't put your hands on the back of his head. She done told you. I'll be grabbing up on the bed or Jason's either. Don't do it because I too am studying hepherology. I'm studying under Mrs. Maddie J. I'm. I'm being tutored in heiferology and heiferism. So just put it out there. To all them wannabe heifers out there, thank you all for watching the Joy Reid show. Have a very merry Christmas.
- [123:07]
Lunell
Ho ho ho.
- [123:08]
Joy Reid
Enjoy yourselves. Happy Kwanzaa. Happy New Year to all that are celebrating whatever you're celebrating or if you're just celebrating Saturday or just the season, whatever it is, whether you're religious, not religious, whether you Jesus is the reason for the season or you just want some Christmas presents and a tree, whatever it is, we love you, we appreciate you. We will see you all back here same bat time, same bat channel on the 29th. We're just going to do a fun live and then I'll see you on Don Lemons Live on New Year's Eve. But until then, thank you for watching. We love you and thanks for watching. Oh, but one more thing. Sean told me to make sure you let you know put Wearing Joy, hashtag Wearing Joy so that you can also be a star on the show in the coming year. We can show you with your fabulous gear. All right, that's it. Thanks for watching the Joy Reach show. So have a great weekend and goodbye.
- [124:05]
Lunell
The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info.
- [124:11]
Lev Parnas
In more places that could expose you.
- [124:12]
Lunell
More to identify identity theft.
- [124:13]
Joy Reid
But Lifelock monitors millions of data points per second.
- [124:16]
Lev Parnas
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- [124:21]
Lunell
Or your money back.
- [124:22]
Joy Reid
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- [124:29]
Lev Parnas
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- [124:31]
Joy Reid
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