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- [00:01]
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- [00:43]
Joy Reid
And here we go. All right, we're live. Good evening, everyone. Thank you all for working with us through these gremlins. Oh, the little gremlins just love to play with us. They love to do their little things. And welcome to the Joy Reid Show. We appreciate y' all being here. Let me shout out some of our fellowship favorite people are Team TJRS people. Vera Blanchard shouting you out. Thank you so much for joining Team tjrs. Let me also shout out Ruth Arlene How, Cheryl Brown, Deborah W. Hardwick, and Kim Keating. So, yes, we indeed are live. Thank you all for being here. Very much, Very much. Let's get into what's going on around the world. Donald Trump is spending this Friday in Alaska, or as he called it this week, Russia, where this morning he warmly received Russian dictator Vladimir Putin. Okay. Where he received Vladimir Putin this morning, complete with a red carpet. He walked him down off of a flight that he got off of straight from Moscow with Putin receiving the best of treatment because, of course, Donald Trump loves Vladimir Putin, deeply respect him. We're gonna pull that video up as soon as we can. But you can, you can, you can see that Donald Trump is desperate to go ahead and fight for that Nobel Peace Prize based on the reception that he gave to Putin. And of course, we know that Alaska is a territory that Moscow actually sold to the United States in 1867. Oh, here we go. There they are on the red carpet together, looking very happy together. Donald Trump and the man he would like to be his bestie, walking the red carpet, giving him the best treatment. By the way, the last time that Vladimir Putin was in the United States, it was in 2015 in New York when he had a tense meeting at the United nations with President Obama. Obama wrote on the street, you know, is it Putin is low key racist. I'm just messenger. Cannot verify that personally. But if true, that would make it track and make it make sense. Why Donald Trump, fellow war. I'm sorry, why Vladimir Putin, fellow war criminal Bibi Netanyahu and Trump get along so well. Now Trump and Vlad are preparing to hold peace talks over the future of Ukraine. And according to the Rupert Murdoch owned Daily Telegraph, Trump is prepared to sell out America's mineral wealth in exchange for a deal. Here's what the Telegraph is reporting that he may offer Russia access to our rare earth minerals, the rare earth minerals owned by the United States, many of which are based in Alaska, if Vladimir will stop making war on Ukraine and just keep the part of the land that he's stolen so far. The Telegraph is also reporting that Trump may be prepared to let Putin treat Ukraine like Israel is treating Gaza, namely turn it back into a Russian protectorate, but with some sort of limited self governance like Gaza used to have, something that the White House of course denies, but that is the Telegraph's reporting and they're standing by it. The Telegraph is also calling the Alaska summit a 1930s throwback. And if you pull up a three, I will go ahead and read that. Donald Trump says that within two minutes of meeting Vladimir Putin in Alaska on Friday, he will know exactly whether or not a deal can get done to end the war in Ukraine. For the Ukrainians and Europeans, there is more than just a whiff of Munich about this summit, with neither party receiving an invitation for the crunch talks. In 1938, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Eduard Daladier and Neville Chamberlain of Britain agreed to carve up Czechoslovakia without representation from the Czech government. The concern is that this could happen once again with Mr. Trump and his MAGA acolytes busy discussing land swaps and criticizing Volodymyr Zelensky for arguing that his constitution bars him from doing so. On the other other end of the negotiation is Putin an autocrat who believes Ukraine is a work of fiction and a mortal threat to his country, unquote. Now, one thing that is clear is that Trump is hoping to squeeze a Nobel Peace Prize out of all of these efforts. Whatever they wind up doing to Ukraine, Donald Trump desperately wants a Pulitzer. And according to Courier News, Donald Trump actually called Norway's finance minister last month and again begged him for the Peace Prize during a call, ostensibly to discuss his other favorite thing, taco tariffs. Norway? What do we even import from Norway? I don't know. I mean, is he threatening more tariffs if he doesn't get the Peace Prize? Inquiry minds want to know. And apparently this isn't even the first time that Trump has reached out to the home of the Peace Prize to demand the honor that he has not earned. He didn't own it, but he wants it because the black president got one. So he has to have one too. Godspeed Ukraine.
- [05:17]
Michael Fanone
Good luck.
- [05:19]
Joy Reid
Meanwhile, the Please stop paying attention to the Epstein files. Trump military takeover of the District of Columbia is well underway, complete with the National Guard on the streets on the Howard University campus and lots and lots of protests. We've got video of some of those protests from last night. Those may not be loading. So we're just going to move on. Trump's fascist invasion is making the nation's capital look and feel like a war zone. Or maybe like South Africa during apartheid with federal and local police accosting mainly black and brown people and demanding ID container racist which is a sort of racist MAGA summer in D.C. as well as in multiple other cities that all have one thing in common, namely a black mayor. Now last night I co hosted a State of the People Emergency town hall with Angela Rye and Brittany Packnett Cunningham where I spoke with three black mayors who are facing this hell. Karen Bass of Los Angeles, Barbara Lee of Oakland and Brandon Johnson of Chicago. I will note that Mayor Ras Baraka of Newark also appeared in that town hall. But we let off with the mayor of Washington, D.C. muriel Bowser, and I asked her about the executive order from D.C. police Chief Pamela A. Smith, which announced full cooperation between D.C. metro Police and Trump's Federal Police and the National Guard. Now here is a piece of that interview from last night with Muriel Bowser.
- [06:54]
Muriel Bowser
About what happened in this executive order. The D.C. police officers may now assist federal immigration enforcement efforts by sharing information about people not in custody, including those encountered at traffic stops. They may also insist by transporting federal Immigration Agency employees and their detained suspect. In a statement, the Department characterized the order as a clarification rather than a policy change, the quote being under the President's executive order, MPD services have been requested to assist ICE with transportation of detainees and traffic stops. I have three questions regarding that, Madam Mayor. Number one, that executive order came from your police chief. Were you aware of the executive order and is this under your authority? It's pursuant to the Presidential Executive Order. And the Presidential Executive Order is in compliance with the D.C. home Rule Charter. And the President's Executive order compels the Mayor of the District of Columbia to supply police services that are in accord with the emergency declared by the President for federal purposes. So if but are traffic stops federal services, Madam Mayor? Because a traffic stop, the last I checked, is not a federal service. So why would the MPD be assisting ICE in traffic stops? The federal purpose in the District of Columbia is broad because the District of Columbia is the seat of the federal government. So you're saying that a traffic stop in D.C. is a federal matter? That's correct.
- [08:39]
Joy Reid
Well, a funny thing happened. About 40 minutes after that interview, Attorney General Pam Bondi announced part two of her takeover, announcing that the police chief will now report to the head of the Drug Enforcement Agency. And that's her new boss. And here are their pictures. And I'll just let you guess why she's out. According to Pam Bondi. And he's the new boss. I'll just let you noodle that now. D.C. is now suing the District Attorney General. The, the. Sorry. The District Attorney General announced the lawsuit today, with the police chief now changing her tune and saying, quote, in my nearly three decades in law enforcement, I have never seen a single government action that would cause a greater threat to law and order than this dangerous directive. And the D.C. attorney General, Brian Schaub, added that the takeover will wreak operational havoc. Joining me now is DC Metro former DC Metro Police officer Michael Fanone, who hosts the excellent Michael Fanone show on Substack, as well as Mark Thompson, host of the Make It Plain podcast, which you can find on Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast faves. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. Thank you all for being patient.
- [09:53]
Mark Thompson
Thank you for having us. Joy, thank you.
- [09:55]
Michael Fanone
Thank you for having me.
- [09:56]
Joy Reid
Thank you. I want to start with you, Mike Fadone, as former D.C. metro Police officer, what do you make of this idea that now, at least according to Pam Bondi, the Metro Police now report to Donald Trump and the dea?
- [10:17]
Michael Fanone
I mean, I think it's outrageous. You know, I listened to the press conference. I heard their, you know, quote, unquote justification for, you know, this really unprecedented maneuver. And it just doesn't add up. You know, Trump was cherry picking crime stats going back as far as 2023, talking about the spike that Washington, D.C. experienced in homicides, which was significant. And it was, you know, concerning that being said, those are not the numbers that, you know, that Washington, D.C. is experiencing right now. And so how is it that, you know, that a move like this that is completely unprecedented is justified?
- [11:04]
Joy Reid
And as a, you know, just as somebody who walked the beat and was a Metro cop, what does that do? Because I asked a couple of D.C. activists this question, but I want to ask you that as well. From the other side, from the point of view of the officer, if you're now essentially being told you need to drive around these federal agents, you're both going to jump out of the same Metro patrol car and then those agents can essentially demand the idea of anyone, according to the federal authorities, they're saying, even based on how they look, based on their accent, so essentially profiling people, and you're the Metro officer that's with them, and that the officer then can also provide information about people, even if they're not detained. What does that do to the relationship between police officers and the people that they are supposedly protecting and serving?
- [11:51]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, I mean, you know, as somebody who worked there for 20 years, it's difficult enough to. To establish and maintain trust between law enforcement and the communities that were charged with protecting and policing. That being said, you know, it's just another. Another strain on that relationship, and to be honest with you, as having a completely different perspective now, because for the first time in my adult life, I'm not a police officer. I'm a citizen. And seeing armored vehicles patrolling the streets and seeing police officers enforce these oftentimes unconstitutional policies of this administration, it's disgusting. You know, I certainly, I, you know, I quit the police department in 2021. I would have most certainly quit regardless of, you know, my experience on January 6th had I, you know, lived or continued on in the department to experience this. It should outrage every American. It should outrage the officers themselves. The officers themselves should, if they were going to honor their oath to the Constitution, refused to participate in that type of activity.
- [13:20]
Joy Reid
Well, and I would think that it would offend at least some of these officers that Trump didn't call out the National Guard for y'. All. He didn't call out the National Guard to protect you guys when there was a literal riot caused by him at the Capitol. I, you know, what is your take on that? Because suddenly he wants to put the National Guard out because he says there's crime, but there was. He said crime was down in May, and now he's saying, oh, now I need the Guard.
- [13:47]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, no, I mean, it's. It's a, It's. It's a stunt. I think, you know, me personally, I think that it's, you know, it's another, you know, optical illusion of this administration to distract from the Epstein files. But I also think that Donald Trump, he has a authoritarian fetish, and he likes having control over one. I think it's a big middle finger to Muriel Bowser in Washington, D.C. which is between Washington, D.C. and Baltimore. Those are the two cities, I think that whose voters hate Donald Trump most, you know, it's. It's pushback from, you know, from the Black Lives Matter movement, from Black Lives Matter plaza, you know, being painted just a stone's throw away from the White House when Trump, you know, was there in office. I think this is, you know, it's part of his retribution tour. Yeah, you know, it's. Donald, go ahead.
- [14:48]
Joy Reid
No, no, go ahead, finish your thoughts.
- [14:53]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, I mean, I just think that, you know, again, this is. It's not meaningful. You know, there is a place, there is a crime problem in Washington, D.C. does it warrant calling in the National Guard? I don't think so, and I don't think most Americans think so, and I don't think most Americans want to see that take place. And they certainly don't want to see Donald Trump usurped. You know, the democratically elected officials, you know, in Washington, D.C. or in anywhere else and do whatever he wants to do, rather than allowing them to handle these problems at a local level. I mean, we have a democratic system in this, in this country. And if you don't like the way that the mayor is handling crime in Washington, D.C. then the citizens can vote her out of office and find somebody else that they think can do a better job. You don't have a situation, or we're not supposed to have a situation where, you know, the President of the United States can just say, well, f all of you, and I'm going to do exactly what I want to do, you know, the way that I want to do it, voters be damned. And I think that, you know, unfortunately, there are a lot of Americans, because Trump is picking on democratically run cities that are okay with all of this, you know, that see it happening. And they're like, well, you know, daddy, Trump has come to town and, and he's gonna, he's gonna teach them.
- [16:21]
Joy Reid
Yeah. And Thompson.
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Michael Fanone
But getting back to my earlier.
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Joy Reid
No good.
- [16:29]
Michael Fanone
There. There's a place for these federal partnerships. You know, I was a task force officer when I was at the Metropolitan Police Department. I was, you know, I worked with the atf, I worked with dea, I worked with the FBI. There's a, there's a role for that. There's a, you know, local police departments are street cops. We're the ones that have the relationships and community partnerships. Federal resources. You know, federal agencies bring in the resources that we need when it comes to dollars that we don't have access to when it comes to, you know, capabilities. You know, when I worked with the FBI, these were some of the best investigative minds that I had the pleasure of working with in my career in law enforcement. But they're not street cops. They shouldn't be out there, nor do I think they want to be out there. And the few FBI agents that I still talk to that are out there right now walking a footbeat in downtown Washington, D.C. you know, that's not a role that, you know, is going to be advantageous or going to reduce crime in Washington, D.C. it's a dog and pony show. And then what happens, you know, in 30 days and 60 days and 90 days when Trump pulls back all of these resources, then what? Then, you know, Metropolitan Police Department is left shorthanded again and they've got to go back to, you know, trying to fight crime the best way that they know how. And now with a relationship with the community in which everybody remembers them from this moment. And who's going to want to cooperate with law enforcement then?
- [18:08]
Joy Reid
Right? Exactly. And Mark Thompson, that does bring me to you. Because, you know, one of the things that the mayor said last night during the, during the State of the People Power tour is she kept emphasizing the fact that D.C. has this home rule sort of status where they are not a state, they are essentially a colony. And so they don't have a lot of choice. And yet what you've seen is this very sharp Turnaround, this quick 180 where the police chief was essentially pushing compliance. She put out this executive order of her own saying we're going to fully comply, which I think shook a lot of people up. And now that compliance has gotten the police chief nothing but what the Trump administration wants to do, which is decideline the black police chief, surprise, surprise, and force her to answer the to them.
- [18:58]
Mark Thompson
Yeah. And by the way, Joy, excellent interview with the mayor last night. You're absolutely right. And I can concur with everything Michael has said. When I lived in Washington, D.C. i chaired the NAACP Police Task Force and taught diversity awareness and sensitivity training at the D.C. police Academy for almost 10 years. I happen to know that not only do many DC Police officers not feel great about this, but neither do some of the other law enforcement agencies, many of whom their officers and staffs are still healing from January 6th. I know that for a fact because whenever I'm in Washington, D.C. i hear from those in law enforcement who are still overcoming that and many who actually left law enforcement as a result of it. This is Donald Trump's once again, he is a reality show producer. This is his upto date version of Cops. Either trailer for his reelection campaign in 2028. Because wake up, everybody, let's not be naive. Just like we didn't expect him to take over, D.C. took it over. Let's not lower our expectations that he may run again because he is. It's either that or a pilot for a new reality version of cops. And as. As Michael said, obviously this is a distraction from the Epstein files. As far as home rule, we know that there is a very limited version of home rule. Democrats not off the hook for this. We got the first ever vote for D.C. statehood on the House floor in 1993. If every Democrat had voted for it, D.C. would have become the 51st state then. And there have been other opportunities that have been missed. That is the only solution. Even the Supreme Court has ruled. It's a political solution. It's not a constitutional one. There's no need to amend the Constitution to make Washington D.C. the 51st state. The mayor and her police chief, anyone in the administration now cannot afford really to kowtow to Trump. He's gonna do whatever he wants to do anyway. Frankly, all of us should be singing from the same sheet of music. And that is encouraging an organized resistance to this military takeover of. Of Washington D.C. and talk a little.
- [21:17]
Joy Reid
Bit about what's happening in the communities, because, you know, we've heard about not just law enforcement, but, you know, armed, you know, Feds, federal officers, but also the National Guard sort of milling around with really not a lot to do. I'm actually hearing, anecdotally, was speaking today with somebody who's a military veteran who's saying that she is hearing from a lot of folks in the National Guard who don't want anything to do with this, who want now out of the Guard who had no interest in joining the Guard to police their own citizens and to be on the streets of American cities. They want out. A lot of young guardsmen that. That this friend of mine is speaking with, they want out. They want nothing to do with this. But then you also have a lot of people who are very visibly, because they're being filmed with phones harassing people on the Howard University campus in very heavily black parts of the city, going at people who are drinking from an open container, doing what is sort of mundane sort of law enforcement work in federal gear. What effect does that have on a community when essentially it feels very white? South Africa, 1980s.
- [22:26]
Mark Thompson
It is demoralizing. And don't get me wrong, D.C. police have not been perfect over the years, but this is a far cry from where we were when we had a consent decree without the Justice Department Chief Ramsey, when he was chief of police. We had sort of a consent decree with the community, and he allowed the NAACP and other organizations, other civil rights organizations to actually insert themselves into the curriculum of the D.C. police Academy. So we had a period of time when black lives did matter in Washington D.C. that's never perfect because of, obviously, the culture of policing. And keep in mind, D.C. and really the DMV is still sort of a small town, Joy. So you have people working in these law enforcement agencies, some even in the Guard, who have been lifelong residents of the DMV who have families there. They're not really feeling that. And nothing like this has happened before. There's been no occupation of Washington DC by the National Guard this way since 1968 during the rebellion against Dr. King's martyrdom. So this is unnerving, it is demoralizing. But I hope and pray it is a wake up call against any notion, because some people say it to me. When Trump came in office, I called some friends, I called some people in high places, I said, y', all, we need to get an organized resistance together. And some. The response I got was from some, well, we don't need to do that. You know, it's okay. There's a good relationship. Trump's not going to do this and that. And I said, what makes you all think he won't do that? And so we've got to really get people to organize on the ground and to speak out against this. And most importantly, those who do not live in D.C. this is always argument for D.C. state or D.C. residents can't vote to become a state. Others have to pressure their elected representatives, especially Democrats, to stop playing around with this issue. D.C. should have been a state a long time ago. I'm ahead of majority in 2008, it didn't happen. 2012, it didn't happen. We need to pressure those who are allies around the country to support D.C. in this. And lastly, think about this, folks, and this is the real threat that Trump and Republicans feel if D.C. fear, if D.C. becomes 51st state, that is inevitably two more Democratic senators, that changes the dynamics of filibustering Senate majorities and, and all legislation that would subsequently pass. They understand that fear. We need to understand that magnitude and build this organized resistance.
- [25:01]
Joy Reid
Thank God. I think anyone who lives in D.C. 100% agrees with you, Mike, I don't know if you agreed with that as well, because this is the other issue, too. I mean, the Guard normally would be called out by a governor. In this case, they don't have a governor because they're not a state, they're a colony. And so police now have to decide, like, who do we actually answer to? Do we Answer to the Justice Department, the DEA or to the police chief. I mean, that has to be hella confusing.
- [25:28]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, no doubt. I mean, and I agree wholeheartedly with what the Reverend just said. I mean, you know, I guess if you're looking for a silver lining in this, this is the greatest infomercial possible for, you know, D.C. statehood. But, you know, look at what happened in California. Donald Trump, you know, mobilized and federalized. I mean, he turned the National Guard into active duty military. They're still there on the streets of Los Angeles against the wishes of the democratically elected governor, Governor Newsom. And so, you know, I think that going to the other part of what the Reverend was saying is that, you know, Democrats need to stop being naive when it comes to Donald Trump. They need to stop thinking that, you know, if you cowtail to him, that it's somehow going to buy you goodwill. It's not, you know, and, and then be prepared to, you know, for the absolute worst possible case scenario. Donald Trump has proven time and time again, especially in this term, you know, we're, we're only what, eight months in.
- [26:39]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
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Michael Fanone
And look at all of the unprecedented. How many times have you said unprecedented, Joy, when it comes to this administration's actions and behavior? I mean, it's that in hypocrisy, I, I, you know, I can't, it's like my, I can't say it anymore. It's, it's lost all meaning. And so, yeah, I mean, we have a big fight ahead of us.
- [27:02]
Joy Reid
We do. Last word to you, Mark Thompson. You also were a big part of the Free South Africa movement. You recall that movement. I'm trying to age you. You're young, you're a young man, but you were, you were around during that movement. And, and I liken what is being done in these black run cities to that. We are at a situation where if you are a black and brown person, you are being demanded to show your papers on the streets of American cities and some of the biggest, most storied American cities in the country, including the nation's capital. Ain't that apartheid?
- [27:34]
Mark Thompson
It most certainly is apartheid. As a matter of fact, the definition of apartheid, apartheid is minority rule. We already have that in this Trump regime in the Senate because we know practically today the majority of Americans, not only people of color, but also people with some type of progressive and democratic mindset, not a non democratic majority. So yes, this is a reiteration of that and frankly, we remember the days and joy. I don't wanna date you either, since we, we, we both say that we're Gen Z anyway, but some of us do. When D.C. was known as the murder capital and when there was, there was gun violence. You know, here's what's interesting. If you, if you back the blue and you love police, you're not for wanton access to guns for everybody in the first place. Let's remind everyone of that. There's no there, There are no police officers who really support that because they put their lives in danger. So the very person who's sending out these guard troops and is also part of a party that advocates for everybody to have access to a gun and advocates and believes that the Second Amendment gives any individual the right to bear arms. But yes, this rounding up when crime nationally and in the DMV area has subsided and many of us have lived through that going down. So it's like, it's the power of suggestion that started in the Reagan administration, the black face. And you see the black face on television, you see young African Americans, and you automatically assume crime. It becomes a stereotype. So even though there's not as much crime, just the fact that DC Is an African American, majority, African American city, that means that there is some crime. Inevitably, that crime is just everywhere. And we still live in a society where racism and stereotypes exist and he's able to get away with it. We must stand against it. Everybody must stand against this in solidarity, lest we succumb to, as you describe, this reiteration, this reincarnation of apartheid.
- [29:41]
Joy Reid
Yeah, indeed. Donald Trump obviously believes all stereotypes. He said. Michael Cohen has talked about the fact that he said blacks can't run governments, they can't run countries, they can't run cities. He just makes the assumption that if there's a black person in charge, there's high crime everywhere. But we know that crime is way down in D.C. and in Baltimore and in Birmingham and in Chicago and in Los Angeles and in Oakland. Why? Because these mayors are close to the people and are doing programs to keep young people busy, to give them opportunities for jobs in the summer, and to keep people out of the streets and out of trouble. That is the way they're getting climbed down. And let's all be clear, this is not about crime. I think Mike Fanon said it. This is about Jeffrey Epstein. This is about trying to get everyone to stop talking about it and get journalists, particularly on mainstream media, to sit there and recount the stories of the crime they saw on the streets or how they're afraid to go to Starbucks because they're afraid they're going to get mugged or carjacked to get them to join in this false pretend world he's trying to create of all of his criminality that forces him. He just has to do it to try to protect the people with the National Guard, when all he really wants to do is not release the Epstein files. Mike Fanon, Mark Thompson, thank you both. I think we might have lost Mike Signal, but I want you all to support both of these gentlemen. You can subscribe to michael substack@michaelfanone.substack.com that's F A N O N E. And you can subscribe to Mark's podcast at Apple Podcasts, Apple, itunes, wherever you get your podcast. Support both of these good friends of the show and of mine. Thank you very much. Really appreciate both of you.
- [31:18]
Mark Thompson
Okay.