The REAL Sinners: Vampire Feds Occupy Minnesota | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!

Summary

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Podcast Summary – The Joy Reid Show

Episode: The REAL Sinners: Vampire Feds Occupy Minnesota
Date: January 27, 2026
Host: Joy-Ann Reid
Guests: Jason Johnson, Paul Butler, Noreen Shah, Katie Fang, Clay Cane

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Overview

This episode examines the federal militarization and occupation of Minnesota in 2026, drawing chilling parallels to slavery-era “slave catchers,” the current regime’s extreme targeting of immigrants and protesters, and a growing authoritarian project. Beginning with the latest killings by federal agents, Joy and guests discuss constitutional crises, techniques for “turning blue states red,” and how history both rhymes and instructs resistance today.

The second half features author and host Clay Cane, whose new book about slave rebellion, Burn Down Master's House, resonates directly with today's political moment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How to Turn a Blue State Red: Project 2025’s Tactics

• Joy asks: (03:20) How does a right-wing Christian nationalist regime turn a progressive “blue” state like Minnesota into a “red” state, hostile to immigrants, women, and history?

• Detailing the strategy:

  • Occupy the state with aggressive federal forces.
  • Withdraw or sabotage social services (SNAP, Medicaid, farm subsidies).
  • Sow a climate of fear, especially targeting immigrants and minorities.
  • Demand state voter rolls to enable voter suppression and gerrymandering.
  • Redefine the population: “treating people like cattle… almost no taxes and no regulation, so you live high, everyone else low.” (04:10)

• Notable Quote:

  • “How do you impose the West Virginia system on an entire country when most people want nothing to do with you and your fake Christian bullshit?” — Joy Reid (05:15)

2. Federal Violence & Murders in Minnesota

• Trigger event:
  • In the span of weeks, three U.S. citizens (Alex Preddy, Renee Nicole Goode, Keith Porter) killed by ICE/BP agents, fueling outrage and debate about constitutionality.
• Chilling analogy:
  • “Performing CPR on what may already be a corpse called the Constitution.” — Minneapolis protestor (08:35)
• Amendment breakdown:
  • Violations of 1st (protest), 2nd (right to bear arms), 4th/5th/6th (due process, speedy trial) highlighted.
• Police state:
  • Federal agents “grabbing any black or brown person with an accent and demanding they show their papers… even if they are citizens.” (09:41)

3. State vs Federal: Constitutional Crisis

• Gov. Tim Walz’s resistance:

  • Calls National Guard, vows the state (not feds) will handle investigations into the killings. (11:24)
  • National Guard’s first actions: restoring calm, giving out hot chocolate—striking contrast to occupation elsewhere.

• Planned militarization:

  • Leaked memo: plans for a National Guard response force in all states by April 2026 for crowd control and unrest. (15:06)
  • “Maximum lethality, not tepid legality, violent effect, not politically correct.” (15:45)

4. The Voter Rolls Leverage

• Pam Bondi’s demands to Gov. Walz:
  • Share all state social services records (SNAP, Medicaid) with feds.
  • Repeal sanctuary status; allow ICE into detention facilities.
  • Key demand: Allow Civil Rights Division access to voter rolls “to confirm compliance with federal law.” (17:10)
• Joy’s insight:
  • “Pam Bondi is saying—‘We’ll stop the invasion if you give us your voter rolls.’ That is how you turn a happily blue state red without convincing residents to give away their civil rights…” (18:32)
• Other targets:
  • Arizona, Illinois also received similar demands.

5. Community Resistance & Legal Chaos

• Katie Fang:
  • Calls the Bondi letter "extortion" and notes the community’s resilient, organized response, despite being gripped by fear. (24:08)
• Paul Butler:
  • Describes unprecedented federal obstruction: feds blocking state homicide investigations, refusing access even with a judge’s warrant—“in my 30 years, never seen anything like it.” (28:03)
• Noreen Shah:
  • “There’s a part of the administration simply aiming for mass deportation, another for systemic repression, another seeking to outright steal the voter rolls.” (34:39)

6. Propaganda vs. Reality: Exposing State Lies

• Contradictory narratives:

  • Feds claim Alex Preddy pointed a gun at agents; video proves he was filming, legally carrying, was unarmed when shot. (48:55)
  • “The victim? The victims are the Border Patrol agents,” claims a Trump official on Sunday talk shows. (52:02)

• Notable Quotes:

  • “They are asking the American people to not believe their own eyes.” — Katie Fang (53:01)

7. Parallels to American History

• History of slave catchers:
  • Extended segment draws connections from 1800s fugitive slave laws to ICE agents today, referencing Nantucket's Black history and white resistance to bounty hunters. (66:37–80:00)
• Joy:
  • “We do not have to reach into another country's history—slave catchers are our ICE.” (75:10)
  • “The Nazis copied us. They learned those tactics from American slavery and Jim Crow.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Authoritarian Project

• Paul Butler:

  • “Now, apparently, the Trump administration regards local law enforcement as enemies of the state… This is unprecedented… they want an investigation that confirms their lies.” (28:03)

• Joy Reid:

  • “There has always been a resistance among Americans to the invasion of forces not from there, coming to your community and trying to take people.” (75:25)

On Resistance and Empathy

• Clay Cane:
  • “Don’t let them take what they can’t touch. This book is about radical hope.” (84:20)
  • “If we would have taught this history, we'd have a much different country. Because you couldn’t deny the facts.” (105:58)
• Joy Reid (on modern authoritarianism):
  • “The worst mistake this regime could’ve made was kill two white people in one of the whitest states in the union. Now other white people are asking, ‘Why are you killing my neighbors?’” (98:43)

On Voting Rights Suppression

• Katie Fang:
  • “If you give them the voter rolls, and they access Social Security, they’ll know who to target—find out who’s a naturalized citizen, and simply stop them from voting.” (40:40)
  • “If people are afraid to leave home for work or school, do you think they’ll go to vote?” (39:20)

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• [05:15] “How do you turn a blue state red?” – Joy Reid lays out the key question
• [09:41] Describing how feds are stopping and grabbing brown/Black citizens
• [11:24] Governor Walz's resistance, calling National Guard
• [15:06] National militarization memo, plans for crowd control units
• [17:10–18:32] Pam Bondi’s demands and how voter rolls become leverage
• [24:08] Katie Fang response, “It’s extortion”
• [28:03] Paul Butler: "Unprecedented" federal obstruction and evidence destruction
• [34:39] Noreen Shah explains the layers of the regime (deportation, repression, voter theft)
• [48:55–54:06] Federal lies on Alex Preddy killing vs. video evidence; denial on Sunday shows
• [66:37–80:00] In-depth historical analysis: fugitive slave acts, Nantucket history, and parallels with today
• [83:20] Interview with Clay Cane on Burn Down Master's House
• [98:43] On the regime’s error in killing white citizens, sparking broader empathy
• [105:58] Clay Cane: “If we would have taught this history, we'd have a much different country.”

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Segment Highlights

Historical Parallels & Lessons (66:37–80:00)

• Examines Nantucket’s 19th-century Black community, slave-catching, and white/Black resistance, connecting it to the present militarized ICE presence.
• “This goes back to the 17th century—slave catchers, the then-equivalent of ICE and Border Patrol… capturing non-citizens.” (75:10)

Interview: Clay Cane, Burn Down Master's House (83:20–109:55)

• Explores erasure of resistance in Black history and why mainstream narratives avoid rebellion stories.
• “White supremacy begins in the home, is solidified in schools, and etched in media.” — Clay Cane (87:24)
• Discussion of Black complicity (Black enslavers), resistance, and lessons for the present.
• On defiant optimism: “Knowledge manages terror.”

Calls to Action

• Highlighted the need to vote (even with barriers), organize locally, and support community.
• Repeated encouragement to stay informed and push for government accountability.

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Conclusion & Tone

This episode is urgent, unapologetically critical of rising authoritarianism, and deeply historical. It balances somber warnings about constitutional crises with stories of courage and community organizing. The second half, with Clay Cane, is both inspirational and radical, emphasizing resistance and the enduring power of hope.

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Listen Further:

• Paul Butler’s “Ten Commandments for Black Men” – coming soon on the Joy Reid Channel (64:05)
• Clay Cane’s SiriusXM show, Channel 126, 12–3PM ET (111:11)
• MSI United States & Freedom from Religion Foundation – highlighted sponsors supporting reproductive rights and church/state separation.

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For continued updates, follow The Joy Reid Show on Substack and YouTube, and support independent media and featured authors/artists.

Transcript

[Joy Reid]

New CBS Sunday.

[Jason Johnson]

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[Jason Johnson]

Okay. Well, well, well. Happy Monday, everyone. Welcome to the Joy Reid Show. Everyone who is in the chat, looking at you, all right here on YouTube. The chat as well on substack. Thank you all for tuning in. Wherever you're tuning in, we appreciate you. Don't forget to hit like and subscribe. The algorithm loves it. We love it. We appreciate it. And we'd like to know where y' all are watching from, so you don't forget to put that in there, too. Please let us know where you're watching from. We appreciate each and every person, no matter where you're watching from. You are extra special to us. Happy Monday. Hopefully the snow did not snow. Too many people in and you guys have been able to shovel out and get clear of it and get free of it. It's very, very, very snowy where we are. Very, very, very. Hey, Joy, do I just gotta do a quick reminder? Yeah, please.

[Joy Reid]

Hey, everybody, we're still up for our.

[Jason Johnson]

Vote for the NAACP Image Awards. So I'm gonna put this QR code back on screen. You guys can go ahead and click that and go ahead and vote for the Joy Reach show. We greatly appreciate. Please, please vote for me. I'll set you free. We appreciate it. And the end of LACB Image Awards are coming up. There's two parts to it. There's a part that is like the awards categories that we are in and the other podcast categories, and there's a whole other broadcast at the end of the month. There's a whole lot going on. We're trying to decide, like, how we're gonna manage all of that. We got some breaking news on our top story tonight. Apparently, Donald Trump is displeased with the optics of what he's seeing going on in Minnesota. So he is pulling not just Kristi Noem off of Minnesota duty, but apparently also the teeny, tiny, teeny, tiny head of the border patrol who you've seen in lots and lots and lots of the videos. Apparently, he's also getting pulled as well. Apparently neither of them are doing too great of a job. Greg Abbott of Texas even criticizing the way that things have rolled out in Minnesota. The absolute chaos is not really going down for anybody. Everybody can see that. It's a hot mess. Incompetently done, violent and hideous. So there you go. So my leading question tonight is how do you turn a blue state into a red state? How do you, how do you take a state, right, that provides generous social services and is open minded and open hearted when it comes to immigrants and where they, where immigrants thrive and start businesses and blend into the community? How do you take a state like that, you know, where they've got like real education in schools and women have access to abortion and freedom over their own bodies, a state like that, and turn it into a red state where immigrants feel unwelcome, where history is warped to elevate the people who share the ethnicity of the colonizers and to diminish or even erase the histories of everybody else. How do you take a blue state and strip it of its blue state characteristics, including including access to the ballot and access to the ability to vote to keep itself blue, how do you do that? Well, if you are a right wing Christian nationalist and you've only been able to achieve your goals of building a religious plutocracy with a handful of billionaires treating the people where they live like cattle, you know, low pay, no unions, use social services, and for you, almost no taxes or regulation, so you live high while everyone else lives low. Think West Virginia, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, the Dakotas, Texas, everywhere that white Christian nationalism has already taken hold where the gap between the rich and the poor is huge, huge, but no one feels like they can do anything about it or that their votes even count, so they basically just get used to it. How do you impose that system, the West Virginia system, right? How do you impose that system on an entire country when the majority of people in the states that do have social services and decent schools and high college matriculation rates and immigrants who feel included and real history taught in their schools when those people want nothing to do with you and your fake Christian bullshit. Well, the movie sinners, which has 16, 16 Oscar nominations, most nominated movie in history, that blockbuster movie, which we're going to be talking about a whole lot more in hour two of this podcast, in that movie, opening the door and inviting the vampires in is always a fatal mistake. If you open the door and invite the vampires in, and to be clear, the only way that they can get in is to be invited. Everybody perishes. Everybody perishes if you invite the vampires in. And again, it's the only way they can get in. You watch Sinners and you realize that when they're having that juke joint party, as long as they don't let the vampires in. They're good, but you invite them in, everybody perishes. Well, in 2024, the United States of America was presented with the ultimate Vampires of Democracy Project, 2025, which I promise you, even then I could only think of as a real live version of the Handmaid's Tale. And yet In November of 2024, north of like 77 million Americans opened the door and invited the vampires of democracy in. Now, I don't know if y' all remember when Kevin Roberts, who heads the Heritage foundation, gave an interview on Steve Bannon's podcast while Bannon was actually serving his prison time for his fraud conviction. So he gave this interview to his fill in. And Kevin Roberts said this about the radical left. You and I have both been parts.

[Joy Reid]

Of faculties and faculty senates and understand.

[Jason Johnson]

That the left has taken over our institutions. The reason that they are apoplectic right now, the reason, the reason that so.

[Joy Reid]

Many anchors on msnbc, for example, are losing their minds daily, is because our side is winning. And so I come full circle on this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that we are.

[Jason Johnson]

In the process of the second American.

[Joy Reid]

Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.

[Jason Johnson]

We're in the process of the next American second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it. Now, if that sounds sinister, that's probably because it is. Now let's take a quick look at the protests in Minneapolis over the weekend in the wake of the shooting death of the second Minnesotan to be killed by federal agents in two weeks, Alex Preddy, as documented by independent journalists in the state. Take a look.

[Joy Reid]

Time. How would you describe just the way as a Minneapolis resident.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

That you're feeling right now. Can I describe it not as a Minneapolis resident, but as an American citizen. Thank you. This started as a pretext about immigration and the fraud, whatever. It's well beyond that now. It's into your second Amendment, it's into your fourth Amendment, it's in your sixth Amendment. This is so far beyond what people at home probably are watching going, oh, it's Minneapolis. It's woke Hoth. It doesn't affect me. Whatever it does, it's you. It's you as well. Now wake up, please watch what's happening here. I feel like we're performing CPR on what may already be a corpse called the Constitution. And yeah, there's plenty of people online laughing at us and going, haha. Try hards. But I think it's worth it, and I hope you do too.

[Jason Johnson]

It's into your second Amendment, your fourth Amendment, your sixth Amendment. Second Amendment meaning your right to bear arms. He should have included your first amendment, your right to protest, your sixth Amendment. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury. Not to be executed in the street. You could do your fifth Amendment. No person shall be answered to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime unless a presentment or indictment by a grand jury instead of being executed in the street. Also want you to note the arrests of local clergy who had the temerity to kneel and pray and sing about Christian love for the immigrant. How dare they. And also those latest protests you saw at the end at a hotel where locals say that the regime's secret police have been staying. Now, the killing of 37 year old VA ICU nurse Alex Preddy following the murder of 37 year old mother of three Renee Nicole Good, as well as 43 year old Keith Porter in Los Angeles on New Year's Eve. He was also a dad. It feels like a straw that has broken something fundamental in this country, even more than the prior occupations of Los Angeles and Washington D.C. and Chicago where regime secret police have done so much damage. Now that all three. Note that. I want you to note that all three of these people who've been murdered by federal secret police in the past two weeks or past month, if you count Keith Porter, ICE agents in the case of Ms. Good and Ms. Porter, and Border Patrol in the case of Alex Preddy, note that all three were US Citizens and they were killed by the armed, masked, hyper aggressive regime secret police who were going door to door, car to car, blocking people in intersections, grabbing any black or brown person with an accent and demanding that they show their papers and in some cases kidnapping them. Even if they do, even if they are a legal resident or a citizen or a veteran or even an indigenous American whose roots in the country stretch back 4,000 years, they don't care. They're just filling their Stephen Miller quota. And so the tension and the rage in this country over these murders, these senseless killings in our streets, in people's neighborhoods, in plain view, are why Governor Waltz finally called on the National Guard to be visible in Minneapolis and show the people of that city and in that state that help is on the way so long as Trump doesn't try to federalize the Guard like he did in California. Take a look at Tim Walls request.

[Joy Reid]

Well, as I said last week, this.

[Jason Johnson]

Federal Occupation of Minnesota long ago stopped being a matter of immigration enforcement.

[Joy Reid]

It's a campaign of organized protection against the people of our state.

[Jason Johnson]

And today, that campaign claimed another life. I've seen the videos from several angles, and it's sickening. Minnesota's justice system will have the last word on this. It must have the last word. As I told the White House in no uncertain terms this morning, the federal.

[Joy Reid]

Government cannot be trusted to lead this investigation. The state will handle it. Period.

[Jason Johnson]

The state will handle it. Period. And here's what the Guard were doing on their first day on duty on Sunday. Hot chocolate. What are you guys giving out?

[Katie Fang]

You're with the Minnesota National Guard.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, we are.

[Jason Johnson]

Yes, we are. Why was this important for you guys to do today? This is demonstration of safety and security.

[Joy Reid]

We're here to help.

[Katie Fang]

Awesome.

[Jason Johnson]

Thank you. Great. That is the National Guard, Minnesota National Guard, actually doing something positive and giving out hot chocolate and trying to just restore a sense of calm. But it is wild when you actually need military in your streets to feel safe and protected from your own government, when the military needs to get in the streets and you need armed military to protect you against the federal government. Huh? And by the way, it's even more important that it is the US Military, frankly, that's showing up in Minneapolis and in sharp contrast to what the regime made them do in Los Angeles and in the nation's capital, where their job was to scare the hell out of the population, occupation style. And weirdly enough, to clean up trash and do, like, grounds Beautification in D.C. as part of Donald Trump's wet dream of finally being able to act like a dictator, treat the military like his personal Praetorian Guard and use them to quell dissent and crush any protest with militarized state violence. Something a certain former Vice President of the United States, who I might recall, and Trump's own former Defense secretary and his former Joint Chiefs chair, General Mark Milley, and his former Chief of staff, General Kelly, tried to warn us about. It's a serious issue.

[Paul Butler]

He's saying.

[Jason Johnson]

He is saying that he would use the military to go after them. Think about this. And we know who he would target. And we know who he would target because he has attacked them before. Journalists whose stories he doesn't like. Election officials who refuse to cheat by filling extra votes and finding extra votes for him. Judges who insist on following the law instead of bending to his will. This is among the reasons I believe so strongly that a second Trump term would be a huge risk for America and dangerous. Donald Trump did. Donald Trump is increasingly unstable and unhinged. And he is out for unchecked power. That's what he's looking for. He wants to send the military after American citizens. Secretary Hegseth.

[Joy Reid]

Sir, a memo circulating on social media.

[Jason Johnson]

Details the establishment of a National Guard response force that's going to be trained in crowd control and civil unrest and deployed in all 50 states by April of 2026. Can you verify the authenticity of that memo and do you have any more information on the operations? I'm not going to answer particulars on something that may be in the planning process, but we definitely do have multiple layers of National Guard response forces, whether it's in each state, whether it's regionally, whether it's Title 10 active duty, whether it's Washington D.C. we've got a lot of different ways that constitutionally and legally we can employ Title 10 and Title 32 forces and we will do so when necessary.

[Joy Reid]

We're going to go on offense, not just on defense. Maximum lethality, not tepid legality, violent effect, not politically correct.

[Jason Johnson]

In June of 2020, then President Trump directed former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper to shoot protesters in the legs in downtown D.C. an order secretary Esper refused to comply with which the long break, simmering break between he and myself in June of 2020 when he wanted to deploy active duty troops on the street of Washington D.C. and suggested actually that we shoot American Americans in the streets. Would you carry out such an order from President Trump? Senator, I was in the Washington D.C. national Guard unit that was in Lafayette Square during those. Would you carry out an order to shoot protest country in the legs? I saw 50 service agents get injured by rioters trying to jump over the fence, set the church on fire and destroy that sounds to me that you.

[Katie Fang]

Will comply with such an order.

[Jason Johnson]

You will shoot protesters in the, in the lake. Last month I signed an executive order to provide training for quick reaction force that can help quell civil disturbances. This is going to be a big thing for the people in this room because it's the enemy from within and we have to handle it before it.

[Paul Butler]

Gets out of control. It won't get out of control once.

[Jason Johnson]

You get involved at all. They all joke, they say, oh, this is not good. No, it's not good. But the question, the question comes to again, why? Why is the regime doing this? Is it because of crime? Clearly no. Minnesota is not a high crime state. Is it fraud? That whole Daycare scandal is like a year old story. And the main person prosecuted during the Biden administration By the way, is a white woman, not a Somali immigrant. But it gets back to why the regime is targeting these particular states. I have a letter here that Pam Bondi sent to Governor Walz. I'm holding it right here in my hand, but I want to point you to pages two and three and the paragraphs in which she makes her demands. Here are her demands. First, share all of Minnesota's records on Medicaid and food and nutrition service programs, including the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program data, with the federal government. Allowing the federal government to efficiently investigate fraud will save Minnesota taxpayers money and ensure that Minnesota's welfare funds are being used to help those in need, not enrich fraudsters. Her next request. Let's go to that one second. Repeal the sanctuary policies that have led to so much crime and violence in your state. There's not a lot of crime and violence in the state. Removing criminal illegal aliens from Minnesota neighborhoods will save lives, and state and local officials should support this goal. All detention facilities in your state should cooperate fully with ice. Honor immigration detainers and permit ICE to interview detainees in custody to determine immigration status. I urge you to reach an agreement with ICE that allows them to go and remove illegal aliens in custody of Minnesota's prisons and jails and avoids punishing their interactions, pushing these interactions into your street. Something like what the former mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, signed. Hmm. He's like, sign an agreement with ice. Let us into your jails. Let us roam your streets freely without interruption. Third, and this is the big one, we can lead that up. Jason, allow the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice to access voter rolls to confirm that Minnesota's voter registration practices comply with federal laws authorized by the Civil Rights act of 1960. Fulfilling this common sense request will better guarantee free and fair elections and boost confidence in the rule of law. So Pam Bondi is saying, we'll stop the invasion if you give us your voter rolls. And that is how you turn a happily blue state red without having to convince its residents to give away their civil rights to your billionaire friends. And bored Rich Epstein files pedos to grab this state without the consent of the majority. You invent a pretext to swarm the state with secret police, essentially put the state under paramilitary occupation, which the regime has already done. And then you start to shut off their social services, which again, the regime has already done. Right. Snapchecks will not be mailed on February 1st in Minnesota, they've canceled them farm subsidies, which also subsidized snap. So the farmers in the state of Minnesota have been cut off the federal aid that keeps the state's daycare centers open, many of which are run by immigrant women. That's also been canceled. And the business district where Alex Preddy was murdered had already seen an 80% drop in economic activity per sources in the state before the murder due to the presence of ICE goons and Border Patrol. Given that that particular district is teeming with business, wait for it. Run by immigrants. And the regime has also cut off Medicaid, which is the medical insurance used by a reported 8 in 10 black women who give birth in the state. Do you see it now? Also holding this by the Heritage Foundation. The Heritage foundation has been out for quite a long time to change the demographic makeup of this country. And they tried a thing to do it. I guess you could say it's the easy way. Right? The sort of less overt way. I'm holding here something that was sent to us to news [e-mail], which you can also do. We do try to vet whatever you send us, but this one did check out. The Heritage foundation sent this thing out to do it the easy way. Sending these deportation, mass deportation ballot. Do you agree with the Heritage foundation that our immigration laws must be enforced? Yes. No, no opinion. Heritage is giving policymakers a detailed plan to enforce American immigration laws and deport illegal immigrants. Do you agree? During the Biden Harris administration, a US illegal immigrant population reached 16.8 million, with an estimated 301,000 living in Colorado. This was sent to a source in Colorado. Do you agree that this should end? Right. So this was really pushing people to say we, the Heritage foundation, the authors of Project 2025, the Kevin Roberts people, we need to get these immigrants out of this country. We want to make sure the country's not so multiracial. So that was doing it the easy way. And now their instructees in the rather incompetent Trump regime are doing it the hard way. They're letting the idiocracy do it the hard way now through violent force. Note that Minnesota is just one of the states that Pamela Joe is trying this with. She also sent similar notices and similar demands for the voting rolls to Arizona, another a purple state, trending blue, and Illinois, a blue state. We see what you're doing. Trump regime. I hope you all can see what they're doing, because I see what they're doing. Please let us know in the chat if you also see what they're doing. Joining me now is Paul Butler, the Albert Brick professor in Law at Georgetown University Law center and a legal analyst on msNow. He's a contributing opinion writer for the Washington Post. He's the host of the PBS series Returning Life Beyond Incarceration. Also joining is Noreen Shah. She's the director of Government Affairs, Equality Division at the American Civil Liberties Union where she leads the ACLU's immigration policy and advocacy work. And also joining us live from Minneapolis is our friend Katie Fang of the Katie Fang show. And she has intrepidly gone down to the place where the news is happening. And I am going to go ahead and start with you, Katie. Your thoughts on this letter from Pam Bondi demanding the voter rolls and that the policies that make Minnesota, Minnesota be reversed.

[Katie Fang]

It's extortion. I mean, we should just call it what it is. It's extortion, number one. And number two, as somebody who had the most humbling experience today to be able to go in person to the memorial sites for Renee Nicole Goode and Alex Preddy to look at the candles, the flowers, the stuffed animals, the pictures, the signs, the flags, the stethoscope that was left for Alex Preddy today by a retired physical therapist who who wept in my arms because her international family has been busted up. Her Mexican son in law self deported. She also has a son in law who's from Mogadishu and she's terrified for him. To have Pam Bondi reduce the terror that Minnesotans have felt for weeks now to the you give me voter rolls, I'll no longer terrorize you is disgusting. Disgusting. And it is a clear example of how this regime operates. They are, they think that, that lawlessness is the way that things should be. And it is an incredible slap in the face for the people that have been living here, Joy that have been suffering. Right. I mean the, the amount of fear that these communities have been living in has been just palpably wrong. But I will say though, their level of community organizing, Joy, has been so profound that we should be taking notes because they are not going to capitulate to the extortion that's coming from this government.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah, it has been really incredible how organized these folks are. I'm gonna come to you, Paul Butler, because one of the developments that we've had is organization on the ground, but also organization by the state government holding here a tro, essentially an order. And this was to the Minnesota, Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension of Hennepin County's office. Before I read a little bit of this, Jason, if you could please play a 11 because what we've to be clear, you said you got assigned.

[Joy Reid]

You want me to leave the audio on?

[Jason Johnson]

Oh, wait, hold on. Let me. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have you start it over again. So with that, what I'm gonna tell you guys what it is before we start playing. It is the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehensions is now in conflict effectively with the federal government because they are impeding the ability to investigate the murder of Mr. Preddy. Okay, so let's go ahead and play that now.

[Paul Butler]

Yes, that's accurate.

[Jason Johnson]

The question was we had a signed warrant and we were still denied access to the scene. That's accurate. Correct. We took the step of getting the search warrant because we were denied access to the scene. So we thought that we'd be able to get access to the scene much like we would anywhere else, by having an independent judge agree that we have probable cause to investigate the incident at.

[Paul Butler]

The scene that was provided the information.

[Jason Johnson]

To the Department of Homeland Security. And they said that this was a scene and matter being investigated by the federal government and they would not allow.

[Joy Reid]

Us physical access to the scene.

[Jason Johnson]

You arrived at the scene, you were denied. You go to a judge, ask for a warrant. Though Judge Grant said warrant, you show up with that, you're still denied. That's accurate. We were denied. After we provided information, we had a warrant. We now have a temporary restraining order that has been issued. Plaintiff's Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehensions and Hennepin County Attorney's office have filed a complaint and a motion for temporary restraining order, and it is ordered now that that is going to be implemented. Defendants, together with their employees, agents, and anyone acting in concert with them or are enjoined from destroying or altering evidence related to the fatal shooting involving federal officers that took place on around 26th street and Nicollet Avenue. They were denying them access to the scene and also apparently altering evidence. Paul. Or taking it away.

[Paul Butler]

It's not just that the Trump administration seems to regard undocumented workers as enemies of the state. And not just that the Trump administration seems to regard protesters, peaceful, nonviolent protesters, as enemies of the state. Now, apparently, the Trump administration regards local law enforcement officers, the Minneapolis police, as enemies of the state. These officers showed up. These local officers showed up at a homicide scene to do their job, to collect evidence, and they were turned away by federal law enforcement officers, by ICE agents and customs and patrol officers. And so then they went to a judge to get a search warrant. Now, to get a search warrant from a judge, you have to demonstrate that there's probable cause that evidence of a crime will be found where the officers want to look. They persuaded the judge. That didn't take much work to do, that I'm sure. And they went back with their search warrant, and still they were turned away by the federal officers. I have never heard of anything like this in my more than 30 years of working, first as a prosecutor for the Department of Justice and then as a scholar of policing. This is unprecedented. And it's not just that they won't allow people with expertise to look at the crime scene. Apparently, they also want to control the entire investigation. And just as they did with the investigation of Renee Good's shooting, they want to shut out the people with expertise, the local prosecutors and local investigators from anything to do with the investigation of the homicide of Mr. Freddy. And so, Joy, we can think about evidence like the witness interviews. The officers who were involved in the shooting have reportedly all been reassigned outside of the state. Right there, the investigation is compromised. So I like to know, what about the gun that was used? The chain of custody for the gun is extremely important. Or reportedly, the dhs, which has control of the gun, they're not taking the proper steps to preserve this gun, to be reliable evidence in a criminal case. And finally, of course, the video that was shot from the victim's own phone. I'm sure that the Department of Homeland Security and perhaps the Department of Justice have access to that video. It will be so easy for them to share that video with the state investigators. They will not do that. It looks like they don't want an investigation that's a search for truth. They want an investigation that confirms all of the lies that we've heard about this situation from the Trump administration.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah, we are going to play some of those lines and the video that refutes them. And Noreen Shah, I want to bring you in. And before we do that, I want to play that. They also consider the mayor of Minneapolis apparently the enemy of the state. Here he is answering a question he should not have to answer. This is Mayor fry. This is a 12.

[Joy Reid]

They have to abide this.

[Jason Johnson]

So the question is, they defied a.

[Joy Reid]

Search warrant this morning. Will they abide by a court order by a federal judge?

[Jason Johnson]

Everybody listen to that question.

[Joy Reid]

The question is, will this administration abide.

[Jason Johnson]

By a court order?

[Joy Reid]

These are the underpinnings of our democracy, of our republic, and of this constitution. The answer better be yes.

[Jason Johnson]

Whether you're a Democrat or you're Republican.

[Joy Reid]

You abide by those court orders. The answer has to be yes.

[Jason Johnson]

If you are a patriot for this country. And so, yes, my expectation is that.

[Joy Reid]

They will abide by the court order because there is not an alternative.

[Jason Johnson]

Nourisha. I mean, it's a question you shouldn't have to ask, which is an insane question, but it has to be asked. I will also note that the woman in pink who shot the video that shows probably the clearest images of what happened to Mr. Preddy, she, according to another court filing, is in hiding because she's fearful for her life. But I will let Yunarin Shah respond to this question of whether or not this administration will abide by a court order.

[Noreen Shah]

It is a shameful question for us to have to be asking of our own government. And it's not the first time we've had to ask that question over the last nine months. We had to ask it after the administration wrongfully deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia and then lied about it. And we have been working this issue through the courts again and again in case after case. Unfortunately, what we're seeing happen in Minneapolis is a predictable consequence of all this. Administration has been ginning up for months. They are threatening cities all over the country. The president described American cities as training grounds for the military. That was a moment that was outrageous. And so again and again, they're busting through the norms that our constitutional system depends on. But I think the other thing that's really obvious in this moment is that they are giving ground on public safety. You know, if they were concerned about public safety, their answer would be, we're absolutely investigating what happened that never should have happened on an American street, and we will do all that we can to prevent it. Instead, they're not saying a word about public safety. They're demanding that Minneapolis bend the knee, as they demanded of Chicago and Los Angeles.

[Jason Johnson]

Are you concerned that the reason for all of this chaos and death and murder, Noreen, is that they simply want to steal, effectively, the voter rolls in blue and purple states in order to ensure that the pedophile protecting president of the United States does not have a Congress in the House or the Senate that would hold him to account and maybe force him to obey the law requiring to release the Epstein files and that sort of thing.

[Noreen Shah]

The reality is they're all over the place. There is part of the administration that is engaging in this lawlessness and recklessness purely as part of the deportation drive. They want to terrify people in Minneapolis and all over the country into what they call self deporting, what I would call leaving their home and having to Leave their family. There's another part of the administration that wants to terrify all of us into submitting. They want to repress dissent. They see that as paramount in their project. And then there is Pam Bondi and that letter, and it's part of that bigger campaign. But the problem with this administration is that the president sees himself as accountable only to himself. And it's only when things cross the line for him that they will stop. And that is just antithetical to our entire system. That's why we say, you know, the president is treating himself like a king and we cannot abide by that. And that's also why you see so much peaceful protest in Minneapolis and around the country.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah. We have a person in the comments saying self deportation is a Nazi concept. Katie, very quickly, I want to. I want to really quickly read a little bit of the statement from the Preddy family, who seem to me to have. And you can, you're a lawyer, not me, have a pretty good case for defamation, given that they have portrayed this young man as a terrorist and claimed that he was going to commit maximum violence against the Border Patrol. So the Preddy family statement here says, we are heartbroken, but also very angry. Alex was a kind hearted soul who felt deeply for his family and friends and also the American veterans whom he cared for as an ICU nurse at the Minneapolis VA Hospital. Alex wanted to make a difference in this world. Unfortunately, he will not be with us to see his impact. I do not throw around the term hero lightly. However, his first thought and act was to protect a woman. These sickening lies told about our son by the administration are reprehensible and disgusting. Alex was clearly not holding a gun when attacked by Trump's murdering and cowardly ICE thugs. He has his phone in his right hand and his empty left hand is raised above his head while trying to protect the woman ICE just pushed down while being pepper sprayed. Please get the truth out about our son. He was a good man. Thank you. Can you talk about whether or not there is a case here for violating Alex Preddy's civil rights and indeed violating Renee Nicole Good's civil rights. Civil rights. In all three of these people who've been killed by either ICE or Border Patrol, is this not a pretty clear violation of their civil rights and also defamation?

[Katie Fang]

Well, here's the thing, Joy. You know, there was a time when civil rights would actually. And violations of civil rights would actually be investigated. But that division at the Department of Justice is led by Harmeet Dhillon, who is too busy sending Lies. Letters full of lies to the state of Texas to make them racially gerrymander and unconstitutionally gerrymander and redistrict to be able to gain a tactical advantage for the upcoming midterms in 2026. And she's too busy trying to get Don Lemon arrested in Minneapolis for just reporting and doing his good work as a journalist. And so I believe that if they can pursue legal remedies, we do. I know a lot of people push back, Joy, on what's. What's it worth to be able to deal with these things in court? They don't listen to the orders. They don't respect what's happening in the courts, but we have to do that. Noreen said something which is so true. Our institutions are being blown through. They're not asking for forgiveness even after they do it. And they break these things. They said we broke it. We don't have to ask for forgiveness. And so we have to use all available remedies in front of us to be able to do this and do this. Well, interestingly, in the murder of Alex Preddy, turns out that media has reported that there was body cam footage on at least one of those CBP officers. So at a minimum, we get the body cam footage, which we never got from the I.C.E. agent Jonathan Ross, who murdered Renee Nicole Goode. And in addition to that, thank gosh, we had all of those eyewitnesses that had their cell phones out that are being able to prove the lies. And it is disgusting that the family for Alex Preddy has to step forward in a time of grief to have to sit there and defend the memory of their son and to have to encourage people to stop the lies about their son. So whatever recourse they have available, they should pursue. I just want to quickly say something, Joy, about the question that you just posed, which is about our upcoming elections. People won't leave their homes to go to school or to work. If people don't leave their homes to go to school or work, do you think they're going to leave their homes to go vote? The fear and the submission to the fear, the chaos and the intimidation is the long game. I hate to give credit for a level of strategic brilliance that exists, and yet we all know that this is 100% a Project 2025 and precursors to Project 2025 plan. If you have people that are standing in line because mail in voting is demolished and eradicated, and they're standing in line to vote, and they get pulled out of the line, and then the Next day they get released. Sorry, we made a mistake, as they've been doing time and time again that we're seeing. And their vote never counted because they never got to vote. That's the plan. And getting their hands on voter rolls and accessing sensitive data at the Social Security Administration and lying about it to a judge and then having to admit to it when whistleblowers come forward a few weeks ago, that's always been the plan. Because if you, quote, unquote, vote and you win, quote, unquote, then you stay in office.

[Jason Johnson]

Right?

[Katie Fang]

I mean, it's all a part of a scheme to completely devalue human lives. And one of those ways to do that is to make sure that you don't even get a right to vote and you don't get to show up to vote.

[Jason Johnson]

I think that is very clear. If they can get the Social Security records, Paul, and they can get their hands on the voter rolls, they'll know who to target. They can figure out who is a naturalized citizen, they can target those people, they can find out who has a Somali surname, and they can simply, as Katie said, stop them from voting. And I think one person who seems to be quite alarmed about that would be our former president, President Barack Obama, holding here his statement. Just read a little bit of it. The killing of Alex Preddy is a heartbreaking tragedy. It should also be a wake up call to every American, regardless of party, that many of our core values as a nation are increasingly under assault. It seems that all. President Obama has been sufficiently alarmed because.

[Paul Butler]

He understands that this is a moment about authoritarianism. The violence that is promoted by the Trump administration is expressive. As Katie indicated, its function is to scare people from voting, from exercising their right to protest, to scare people to surrender their civil liberties. The message is that ICE and border and patrol officers are the biggest, baddest gang of thugs on the street. And anyone who crosses them or even protests them risk losing their life. That's the message that's sent when immediately after there's an officer involved shooting, the victims of that shooting are vilified. They're called domestic terrorists. They're called would be assassins. When we can all look at the video and understand that those are absolute lies. But they don't care that they're lying. What they're trying to do is to scare every American into thinking that if you dare dissent, if you protest, even if you, as Mr. Petty did, try to help a person who is being attacked by agents of the state for no reason, if you try to assist someone like that you might pay, as Mr. Petty did with your life.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah, indeed. We're gonna come back and talk about more of this because in just a moment, I do wanna get into the actual structural lies that they've been telling and maybe give you all a peek into why Greg Bevino is kind of being just quietly moved aside and moved out of town. So. But first, let's pay for this podcast real quick because we gotta make sure that we pay the bills. We could not bring you this independent media without the support of our sponsors. So I am pleased to announce that this episode of the Joy Reid show is brought to you by MSI United States. Now, let me just pause for a minute on something that's not gotten nearly enough attention this week. The United States is pulling back from global efforts that support women's global reproductive health. This is not abstract policy. It is real. And the consequences are dangerous. When access to contraception is cut, there are more unplanned pregnancies, more unsafe abortions, and more women die. Here's the scale of the problem and I want you guys to sit with this number for just a minute. 257 million women worldwide cannot access contraception. 257 million. It might be because they live far from health facilities or they're young and never had sex ed, or it could be that they just can't afford it. Well, this is where MSI United States comes in. MSIUnitedStates.org is a world leading reproductive health provider operating in 36 countries. Health centers. They operate health centers and they send outreach teams to remote areas. And because they rely less on US government funding, which of course they must do now, they're still delivering contraception and abortion care directly to women, even after the recent cuts. They've been doing this work for decades, often in the most difficult environments imaginable. And right now, private philanthropy is, is not supplemental. It's essential. It's what keeps clinics open and care available. So if you're asking yourself, well, what can I do? This is something tangible with real impact that you can do right now. You can go to MSI United States.org that's M for modern, S for safe, I for informed. Msiunitedstates.org or just text my last name or our last name, Reed Reid to 511511. So text Reed to 511511 or go to MSIUnitedStates.org and a gift of just $25 is enough to give four women contraception for a full year. So think about that. 26 bucks for a year of freedom from worry. So please help them out again. Go to 511-511-Text, read there or go to msiunitedstates.org thank you all very much. Text fees may apply, by the way. Now let's move on to the actual facts of this murder. This is the latest murder we went through, the Renee Nicole Goode murder, which I think all the video showed you was what it was. Now, if you haven't seen this, I want to first show you guys this photo that I think really speaks to where we are. The atlantic has a cover story out now called welcome to the american winter. It's a pretty chilling kind of sobering image that really explains where we are. You see a protester, white with long hair being detained on the ground. You see masked agents and you realize that this is one of those moments when it's not like what they tried to make black lives matter into, right? White law abiding citizens versus black lives matter, angry black people. That's not what it was. That's not even what black lives matter was. This is different. This is in very white Minnesota. And the people who were killed in Minnesota were both white, wholesome white Americans. So I want to dig deeper into the actual killing of Alex preddy who they were very happy to lie about. So I'm going to show you all what the regime spokespeople Greg Bovino and Kristi Noem said immediately after the murder versus what actually happens. You're going to see the video here. You're going to hear what they say, you're going to kind of hear them together, and then you're going to actually see video, including the Washington post breakdown and some independent media video of what happened. So I've explained it now here's B2. Here it is. During this operation, an individual approached U. S. Border Patrol officers with a 9 millimeter semi automatic handgun. Handgun. So there you can see Alex preddy. You see him walking. He's got no handgun, he's got an empty hand. He's directing traffic. The officers attempted to disarm this individual, but the armed suspect reacted violently. You can see his fearing for his life and for the lives of his fellow officers around him. An agent fired defensive shots. Defensive shots. Medics were on the scene immediately and attempted to deliver medical aid. The medics being on the scene appear to be the only thing neen that was true. You can see, and I wanna go through, I've got my bill of rights here. I feel like I Need to carry this around with me all the time. The First Amendment says that Alex Preddy had a right to be there filming those agents. The Second Amendment says that he had a right to carry in an open carry state. He had a gun holstered, what they call at his six. It was behind his back in a holster, legally carried. When he was drawn onto the ground, that gun was still holstered in the carrying case behind him. And you can actually see one of the Border Patrol agents take that gun out from his holster and run away with it. And then he's shot in the back multiple times, and then multiple shots are fired into him. That seems to me to be a pretty straightforward case of incompetence by so called law enforcement and murder. But how do you assess what you saw, Joy?

[Noreen Shah]

It's so deeply disturbing. And I've seen that video so many times. And even watching it again is just. It's heartbreaking and horrifying. And for me, as a human rights lawyer, I went to other countries around the world earlier in my career to document extrajudicial killings and police abuses. And when the police killed somebody, they lied about it, they planted guns on people. They said that things happen that didn't happen. And then they got away with it. And that is one of the reasons why I'm so glad that I'm back in the United States where we can take ICE and Border Patrol to court. And we have been in court on this, on this exact thing and in fact had witness statements that were submitted in one of our lawsuits. And we are trying to hold these agencies accountable, and we need Congress to hold these agencies accountable. In fact, it's going to vote this week on whether to continue funding Border Patrol and ice. So what comes to mind for me is actually we have to prevent this from happening to anyone else. And the way to prevent it is to get Border Patrol and ice, first of all, out of Minneapolis. Those communities do not deserve to have to keep living like this. But also out of everybody else's towns, this has got to stop.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah. Let me play very quickly some of the Sunday show appearances by members of the regime who decided to try to justify this. This is B3J. What you were saying is that he went there to try to stop this law enforcement operation. All of the video that we have seen shows him documenting it with his cell phone, which is a lawful thing to do. And the only time he seemed to interact with law enforcement is when they went after him when he was trying to help an individual who law enforcement pushed down. So where do you have the evidence to. To show that he was trying to impede that. That law enforcement operation? Sure, Dan, at first he was there in the scene. He was in the scene actively impeding and assaulting law enforcement to the point. But that's not illegal. He wasn't. He wasn't impeding it. He was filming it, which is a legal thing to do in the United States. Let's don't freeze frame adjudicate this. Now, he was there for a reason and that reason was to impede law enforcement. What evidence do you have, and here, and here's a good point, Dana, is the fact that de escalation techniques were.

[Joy Reid]

Utilized during this action. Those de escalation techniques, whether it was physically trying to remove them from that.

[Jason Johnson]

Law enforcement scene, that active law enforcement scene in which law enforcement were going.

[Joy Reid]

After a violent illegal alien, or the.

[Jason Johnson]

Use of pepper spray, which is another de escalation technique, those techniques did not work. With respect, it feels as though in some ways you're blaming the victim here. The victim. The victims are the border patrol agents. I'm not blaming the border patrol agents. The victim are the border patrol agents. The suspect put himself in that situation. The victims are the border patrol agents there. And as for this latest shooting, yes, DHS and HC are the lead and the FBI is processing the physical evidence. So we're in possession of the firearm which is going to go to our laboratory. But as Secretary Noem said, no one who wants to be peaceful shows up at a protest with a firearm that is loaded with two full magazines. That was Obama. Now that is not a peaceful protest. And you do not get to touch law enforcement. You do that anywhere. This FBI is going to be following the leading the charge to arrest those.

[Katie Fang]

You're saying he wasn't protesting peacefully and yet the video before shows him holding up a cell phone directing traffic. The video after shows him being pummeled by these law enforcement. Everyone has now seen this video across the country with this man holding up a cell phone. And part of the outrage that people are expressing is that they feel as though, though the federal government is asking them to believe something that they don't see with their own two eyes. Is that what the administration is asking of the American people to believe that he was violent when the video, based on what everyone has seen so far, does not show that?

[Jason Johnson]

Well, first of all, I did not say he was violent.

[Joy Reid]

I said he was not protesting peacefully.

[Jason Johnson]

And you just described what every American is saying.

[Joy Reid]

Scene, which is, which is video shortly.

[Jason Johnson]

Ahead of the incident. Where he was screaming in the face of ice. He had a phone up right to.

[Joy Reid]

The the right into ice's face. You tell me, is that protesting peacefully?

[Jason Johnson]

Go ahead, take a pic right there.

[Noreen Shah]

No more questions. Sorry, no more questions, sir.

[Jason Johnson]

Paul Butler, that last image was Greg Bovino literally putting phones into the faces of protesters. You saw images of during the Barack Obama administration, people showing up with long guns to protest against the Obamacare health care plan, because that's something to protest. And of course, you had Kyle Rittenhouse showed up with long gun to a protest during Black Lives Matter. Your thoughts?

[Paul Butler]

So we see why Volvino is too much even for the Trump administration. And so they are making him leave Minneapolis because you could either say he's a horrible communicator or he's an excellent communicator at revealing their real motives, which don't have a lot to do with actual law enforcement. So a couple of things. One is that there are 600 Minneapolis police officers and there are 3,000 federal law enforcement officers on the ground. So it looks like they're trying to, in the words of the lawsuit, occupy Minnesota. It's almost as if the federal law enforcement agencies are occupying force, which is what the attorney general of Minnesota has said to courts. And so again, the question is, what's the end game? There's a point where this seems to be about something different than just immigration enforcement, and it's certainly not about getting violent criminals off the street because very few of the people who have been disappeared by ICE or customs can be considered violent criminals. So I think President Obama's remarks that you highlighted earlier note that this is an inflection point for our democracy. This is about whether the fascism that the Trump administration is deploying in Minneapolis and has deployed in Los Angeles, Washington, Chicago and other places, whether that will continue to infect the entire country or whether at this point people will stand up, including Republicans, including the Congress, including the Supreme Court and other federal judges, and say enough is enough.

[Jason Johnson]

Nareen, let me come to you on the Second Amendment piece because I've had a lot of people texting me, hey, where are all the 2A people in this? Because this is a lawful gun owner. The Second Amendment, as I'm reading it, a well regulated militia. They seem to say that that's a you can carry right. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Donald Trump did a post which you can put up, Jason, before saying only criminals carry guns in our streets. Only criminal. He did that in all Caps. We need law and order. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Only criminals carry guns. The NRA responded to a local DA who made a similar statement saying whoa Nelly. This sentiment from the First Assistant U.S. attorney for the Central District of California is dangerous and wrong because he said if you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood that they will legally be justified to shoot you. And the NRA said that's even too much for them. Nareen so you're now seeing that. And again, we'll just do B6 again. It's not like conservatives right wingers don't bring guns to protests there at the top. We're in Missouri where those that couple that actually wound up getting convicted for it were pulling guns on Black Lives Matter marches.

[Noreen Shah]

And Joy, I want to remind everybody about the inflection point that happened the day before this inflection point which was a photo of a 5 year old boy being held by a federal agent with his Spider man backpack being marched away to a detention camp. And this administration says we're doing the worst of the worst. We're getting them out of our communities. They're going after parents and little kids. They're going after daycare workers and teachers. They're going after nurses. That's this administration. And anybody who doesn't agree with them becomes a criminal in their book or a domestic terrorist or whatever is the latest word that they think will work. The reality is they do not prioritize public safety. If they prioritize it, they would be getting out of Minneapolis right now.

[Jason Johnson]

Indeed. But before we let you guys go, let me just play one more. And I'm sorry for the to the chats playing more Trump. I'll play one more because I'm going to give you the last word on this, Katie, because I think it's rather ironic. Here he is talking about a different protester who he said was should not have been approached with a firearm. A person named Ashley Babbitt was killed. Yes. You know what? She was killed and she shouldn't have been killed. And that thug that killed her, there was no reason to shoot her at blank range. Cold blank range. They shot her. And she was a good person. Ashley Babbitt was killed. She was shot. Should have never been shot. She was shot for no reason whatsoever. Nobody was killed except for Ashley Babbitt. She was killed. She was killed. I think we got it. She was shot in the head by a policeman. That we got it. We got it. And let's just play one more thing or show One more thing. This is JD Vance retweeting Stephen Miller again, also justifying the murder of this ICU nurse who worked for the VA. There he is claiming that this young man, Mr. Preddy, was an assassin who tried to murder federal agents. Last word to you, Katie, and if you could also wrap up by letting us know what you're seeing in town and where you think this goes from here.

[Katie Fang]

I mean, they want to continuously insult the intelligence of the American people that we're not supposed to be believe with our own eyes what we've witnessed. What we witnessed on January 6, right, 2021 was an insurrection that was led by convicted felon Donald Trump. We just had former special counsel Jack Smith testify behind closed doors and then in public just a few days ago about the fact that you wouldn't have had the January 6, 2021 insurrection but for Donald Trump. The language is intentional. The dehumanization of people is something that we've seen happen over years and in different cultures and countries. It facilitates the ability to assassinate, to be able to exterminate and to be able to eliminate groups of people, even if they look like you, even if they aren't black and brown, even if they are the white suburban mom in the Minivan dropping her 6 year old off at school before she's gunned down in her vehicle. And now the 37 year old veteran hospital ICU nurse who's gunned down in broad daylight across the street from a donut shop. The dehumanization of people by labeling them domestic terrorists also walks into a legal framework to do so. Allows the President of the United States, who's operating under some measure of unfettered discretion when he invokes his executive authority to handle national security matters. There's a reason why there's an NSPM7 memorandum, a national Security presidential memorandum that basically says that anybody who doesn't agree with this administration is antifa and is a terrorist. And when you label people domestic terrorists, then you can exact the punishment and the laws that you want to do and the way that you want to do them without impunity.

[Noreen Shah]

Right.

[Katie Fang]

And so because of that, what you're seeing is people that are, you know, buying into because they are total sheep and they want to have somebody bless their racism, bless their hatred, and bless their institutionalized hatred. They want somebody to give them that. And they are getting that through Trump, Stephen Miller, J.D. vance and others. I'm a little bit tired though, of the. I admired some, and this is something Joy you and I have talked about A lot. I admire some of the pushback we're now seeing on mainstream media to the lies that are happening. But the fundamental reality is they're not appearing here with you, are they? Where they know that they'll be called a liar, where they know they'll be called a racist, where they'll. Well, they will, they know they will be called domestic terrorists. Ashley Babbitt was appropriately dealt with on January 6. And the fact that this government has paid her estate millions of dollars, the fact that they have pardoned insurrectionists and seditious conspiracy, the fact that January 6th insurrectionists now serve in roles like ICE and Border Patrol and that they do so behind Mass is an indication of what the Trump administration and MAGA think about patriots and about our country. I'm getting to the point, Joy, where I think that, and I'm kind of hearing this also on the streets of Minneapolis, St. Paul. We are not in the business anymore of trying to convert those minds. I think people have shown where they are and they have squarely staked their flags in that space of hatred. And as I've heard from people that I've been speaking to since I've been here in Minneapolis, they are warning that there is coming a day when civil disobedience just isn't enough and that you can't meet violence with the non violence that I understand is being recommended right now. But I do think you are creating and fomenting a very dangerous climate right now. And it's not us, it's them. And that's the irony, right? Because that's what they want. They want an us versus them energy. But I think that if there was ever a time to sit there and have a gut check about being on the right side of history, it's now. We may call it inflection points, but I think that's an incredibly elegant way of saying who are you going to be remembered to be behind? Who are you going to be remembered? When people look back on us, they're not going to look at us kindly. If we didn't stand in the face of this autocracy and if we didn't defend our democracy, well, amen.

[Jason Johnson]

It is not Sunday, but you can get an amen for that. Katie Fang. Be sure everyone to please follow the Katie Fang Show. It is very, very popular channel right here on these YouTube streets. So you can follow Katie, all things Katie at the Katie Fang Channel. We're going to link to that as well. If you've not gotten enough of our pal Paul Butler, Katie and Fang, these used to be my. My dream team for.

[Katie Fang]

I miss my buddy Paul.

[Paul Butler]

I miss you too, Katie.

[Jason Johnson]

Look, I'm hoping we can do another trial, guys. And now we have Noreen. We can be a dynamic quad here because if there are state charges filed against these federal agents, please promise to come back and be our dream team because this is going to. It would be quite a trial if this ever does go to state trial. So I will be bothering each of you if you've not gotten enough yet of Paul Butler, we're going to be posting a very helpful clip. It's a very helpful clip on the Joy Reid channel called Paul Butler's ten Commandments for black Men. It is actually really great advice. Honestly, if you're not a black man, you need to watch that. That's going to be up show shortly after this show closes. And we also want to thank Nerene. Please tell us where we can reach you other [e-mail] is that the best place to find your work?

[Paul Butler]

Yes, please.

[Noreen Shah]

Absolutely.

[Jason Johnson]

Aclu, thank you very much, friends. I appreciate all of you. Have a great rest of your evening. And thanks again. Thank y' all very much. All right, we're going to do one more ad break here because this show is also being brought to you by our friends at the Freedom from Religion Foundation. Now let's talk about who pays the price when church and state merge. It is women. It is LGBTQ folks. It's religious minorities. As you've seen, it's anyone who does not fit a narrow white Christian nationalist vision of America. The First Amendment, which we've been talking about a lot tonight, exists to stop that. The Freedom from Religion foundation is fighting in courts and in communities to keep public institutions secular so that nobody is forced to live under somebody else's theology. This is a civil rights issue. So please visit FFRF US NewYear or just text JOY J O Y to 511511 to learn more and join, go to FFRF US NewYear or text JOY to 511511 to help protect a country that belongs to all of us. FFRF.us/New Year today. All right, messaging data rates apply. We're going to let you know that as well. So, Jason, I don't know. I don't know if you remember, we were talking a little bit earlier when we visited Nantucket. We went out to. I do remember.

[Joy Reid]

I do remember.

[Jason Johnson]

You know, so funny about Nantucket.

[Joy Reid]

I didn't realize it has so much black history in Nantucket. I mean, they literally have A lot of black history.

[Jason Johnson]

Nantucket. Who would have thought that they do? We found out when Jason, I and the family went to Nantucket. We were actually in Martha's Vineyard. And then we went on this route, really cool ferry over to Nantucket. And it turns out that Nantucket is actually the oldest black vacation community in the US Even preceding. It's older than Martha's Vineyard. Yeah. Came before the Inkwell people were going to Nantucket first. Now, Nantucket was initially a whaling community and it attracted both free blacks and free black men and women, and also those who had escaped from bondage in the South. Now you have to keep in mind in the early 19th century on the US and in the early 18th and 19th century, the US was still under the Fugitive Slave act of 1783 and a second Fugitive Slave act that became law in 1850. So I want to read to you guys real quick from the History Channel's online site about all this. Quote, statutes regarding refugee slaves existed in America as early as 1643. And the new England Confederation and.

[Joy Reid]

Slick catch.

[Jason Johnson]

Sorry. And slave lawsuit. I can hear you on camera. And slave laws were later enacted in several of the 13 original colonies. Among others, New York passed a 1705 measure designed to prevent runaways from fleeing to Canada. And Virginia and Maryland drafted. And Canada and Virginia and Maryland drafted laws offering bounties for the capture and return of escaped enslaved people. By the time of the constitutional convention in 1787, many northern states, including Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Connecticut, had actually abolished slavery. So concerned that these new free states would become safe havens for runaways, Southern politicians saw that the Constitution, the US Constitution, included a free a fugitive slave clause in the Constitution. That stipulation, which is Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of your Constitution, stated that, and I quote, no person held to service or labor would be released from bondage in the event that they escaped to a free state. So this and those subsequent Fugitive slave Acts of 1793 and 1850 passed by Congress despite the existing constitutional provisions because Southern whites just didn't trust them. The northern white vote, right. They decreed that the so called owners of enslaved people and their agents had the right to search for escapees within the borders of the free states. The agents being the operative word here, because this gave rise to a very lucrative American business, the slave catcher. Now you're seeing it on screen, right? This is a warning. This was published in 1851. And this was a warning published to blacks who were moving as free people in the city of Boston in 1851. And it reads, Caution colored people of Boston, one and all. You are hereby respectfully cautioned and advised to avoid conversing with the watchmen and police officers of Boston, or since the recent order of the mayor and aldermen, they are empowered to act as kidnappers and slave catchers. And they have already been actually employed in kidnapping, catching and keeping slaves. Therefore, if you value your liberty and the welfare of the fugitives among you, shun them in every possible manner as so many hounds on the track of the most unfortunate of your race. Keep a sharp lookout for kidnappers and have top eye open. April 24th.

[Joy Reid]

In other words, stay woke.

[Jason Johnson]

Stay woke.

[Joy Reid]

In other words, stay woke.

[Jason Johnson]

This was a notice posted to free blacks, people who are living free as black folks in Boston in 1851. Which brings me back to Nantucket. Back to Nantucket we go. Which is where the Folgers family lived. And I do mean the Coffee family, the Folgers. Right. Who came during the puritan migration of 1635, which was a necessary joy.

[Joy Reid]

I'm sorry. Which was another piece of interest in history.

[Jason Johnson]

Who'd have known the Folgers?

[Joy Reid]

I let you finish your story.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah. No, no, you say more. Yeah. No. Who would have known that a coffee company. Yeah. Was a bunch of abolitionists, but go ahead. Yeah. So the Folgers, they came in. In the night in the 1600s. Right. And they initially settled in Boston in Martha's Vineyard, which is just across that little ferry and in Nantucket. And they were referred to in a Johns Hopkins University press this way. They were referred to as, quote, the illiterate Hargreave John Folger and his son, the pious and learned Englishman Peter Folger. Peter Folger, who married an indentured maid named Mary Morrell, whom he had met on the crossing. Peter moved his family of eight children to Nantucket in 1663. Their last child, Abia, was born on Nantucket. And Abia grew up to marry a soap maker from Boston named Josiah Franklin. And they had a child named Benjamin. Benjamin Franklin, yes, that Benjamin Franklin. So Benjamin Franklin was related to the Folgers coffee people. Right. So that's some pretty mind blowing news. Right. So our little whaling town of Nantucket had some rather prominent free black families who lived in a segregated part of town called New guinea, which Jason and I visited with the family when we went to Nantucket. So here's what the Nantucket Historical association has to say about that. The black community on Nantucket protested and mobilized against racism in a Wide variety of ways before the Civil War. The campaigns are familiar to protest movements today, participated in by men and women, many of whom's names are unknown. Their activism has been overlooked because even though this was a free state that abolished and did not have slavery, slavery was not legal in Nantucket. However, it was still segregated. So you still had black people holding out and protesting for their rights. A little bit more fear was ever present in the black community, especially for those who had fled enslavement. Federal laws supported their return and black leaders organized to ensure their safety. Free blacks were also in danger of being kidnapped and transported to the south when they ventured off island. Black sailors faced danger whenever they docked in a southern port. The community was alert and ready to resist. The most famous incidents of protecting fugitives from being returned to the south occurred in 1822 when bounty hunters came to Nantucket seeking Arthur and Mary Cooper, along with their children, all born in the North. When the men showed up at the Cooper's house on Angola Street, a defiant group was waiting for them. To prevent the family's seizure, they sought help from several prominent white men known to be sympathetic to their cause. Magistrate Alfred Folger of the Folger family delayed the bounty hunters by engaging them in a dialogue about the legality and authority of their documents. He said, I want to see your papers. This gave the frightened family of six time to be spirited out through the back of the house disguised as Quakers. They were hidden for several weeks at the home of Oliver and Hannah Gardner on Vestal street, where Mary Cooper gave birth to a son, Anna Gardner, who was 6 years old at the time. This is the white daughter of the family that's hiding the Coopers. She never forgot how frightened the Coopers were when they were hiding in her house. So she went on, as she grew up, to teach at the African school in Nantucket as well as in freedmen schools in the south during and after the Civil War. It is a wild story that Jason and I heard with the family when we went to Nantucket that you had white citizens. And the way it was described to us when we went out there is that not only did Mr. Folgers engage the slave catchers and try to throw them off while the black family was going into hiding, white men came up and lined up in the entrance to Nantucket with their long guns being like, come try to get these blacks. You got to get through us first. So what I'm saying to you is there is actually a history of citizens, white and black, defending people who were not considered citizens. Because remember, black people were not considered citizens of the United States at this time. They were non citizens. They were not considered citizens. People who look like me and Jason were not considered citizens of the United states until the 14th Amendment was ratified on July 9, 1868, 100 years, almost to the day before what's called the Hart Celler act, aka the Immigration act of 1965 took effect in the U.S. which it took effect, it was passed in 1965, but it became active on July 1, 1968, like 100 years later, removing the racial quotas that had been enacted in 1924 to exclude Asians, Africans, Eastern and southern Europeans from immigrating to try to preserve the western European racial super majorities that the US had in the year 1890. So that 1924 law, the Johnson Reed act, not related to US Reed R E E D came about, as historian John Higgin observed, because quote nativists during this period, the 1920s argued that the so called new immigration from southern and eastern Europe was racially inferior. So meaning the Italians, the Sicilians, they were racially inferior in these people's minds to the old immigration from northern and western Europe. So they're like Polish people inferior, Italians inferior, anyone who's not like Nordic or British was inferior. Right. So they wanted to reduce their immigration, end Asian immigration entirely, end African immigration entirely, Middle Eastern. No one was supposed to come here but western Europeans because they claimed, and I'm quoting here, that they were polluting the bloodstream of the nation. Who does that sound like right now? Exactly? Polluting the blood of the people. Remember when Donald Trump basically said that? Right. I mean that. And besides of course the anti miscegenation laws that people were obsessed with from the start of this country because they were so fearful that if you had like indentured servant whites and black enslaved people mingling, they would reproduce and have kids together and then you would have like mixed race people and they were like, that's polluting the blood of the people. That's why you had anti miscegenation laws and all this nomenclature that someone's a quadroon or an octoroon and how much black blood. If you have one drop of blood in you, you're black. All of that is because there was an obsession in this country with maintaining the country's white super majorities. But what you had though in places like Nantucket was whatever those white people thought about black people because again they segregated them in their own town in this little part called New Guinea So they segregated the blacks. They didn't go to school with them up until a certain point when they did finally integrate their schools, but they segregated them. So they had certain views about black people that weren't necessarily all positive. But those white folks were not down with the mean southern whites coming up and trying to take people from their communities. There has always been a resistance among Americans at whatever century you want to talk about to the invasion of forces not from there coming to your community and trying to take people. This goes all the way back to the 17th century and the slave catchers, which are the then equivalent of ICE and border patrol because they're capturing non citizens. Blacks were non citizens. So when we talk about what these mass federal paramilitaries are doing or the white folks who are like defending their black neighbors and their brown neighbors, this is not new. And we do not actually have to reach into another country's history to make it make sense and explain it. We could actually even leave aside the very weird and seemingly intentional mimicking of Nazi Germany by this regime. Greg Bevino walking around in the long trench coat looking like literally a Nazi stormtrooper. And you know, all he needed was the hat and a little mustache. Like they're all like talking like Nazis and saying poisoning the blood. We actually don't need that. We can look into our own history. Keep in mind again that the Nazis copied us exactly. The Nazis actually took their, their, their, their tactics from the American slavery and post slavery Jim Crow system. They learned that from us. So we don't need their history. We actually don't even need to call Trump and them Nazis because we can look into our own history of slavery and slave catching and white resistance to slave catching and to white resistance to their neighborhoods being invaded by kidnappers to view the origins of our present disaster. Hey, Joy, by the way, did we ever.

[Joy Reid]

Do you remember the name of the.

[Jason Johnson]

Place that we went in Nuca that.

[Joy Reid]

Had that black history museum and everything up there?

[Jason Johnson]

So. Oh, do I still have lipstick on my teeth? I didn't tell. I got lipstick on my teeth. So I put lip gloss on and I got lipstick on my teeth. So thank you all for telling me. I appreciate that. Real friends tell you when you have lipstick on your teeth. So. Right. I'm getting so excited. I got lipstick all over my teeth. That's all right. Let me see if I got it all. Now back to the question. So back to the question. I have to remember the name of the place we went and we need to go back there. If you guys are ever in Nantucket, you've got to go to this museum because I have a black history museum.

[Joy Reid]

Your minds will be blown because I didn't even realize myself till we went there that black folk are up there. But they're out there big. They were a bunch of whalers. A big bunch of whalers.

[Jason Johnson]

And there's one guy who had the biggest house. There was one particular guy who had this very large home who was a whaler and who was one of the people who managed to do really quite well and had like a cute little home. All the homes are relatively small only because, you know, it's a little old town. Right. But it was a really cool place. So if you guys ever get a chance, we will try to find the name of the museum. I don't see it in my phone, but I'm going to try to find it and we'll put it out in the substack so you guys can go. Our next guest has produced a really very cool and fascinating book that is drawing comparisons to the 16 times Oscar nominated and actually most nominated Oscar contender in history, Sinners. The book is called Burning Down My Master's House. And here is the trailer. Oh, there we go. Nope. I was cold until I saw the smoke. Down, burn down masses now burn it down Burn down massage now your soul you know what you stole. Burn down master's house now burn it down Burn down master's house now burn it down now burn it down make me a feel now burn it down. That is fire literally. Joining me now is the author of that book, radio host, author extraordinaire and a cool trailer maker, Clay Kane. How are you, my friend?

[Joy Reid]

I'm feeling good on this published eve. The book drops tomorrow and so much is in my mind and my soul. And it is an honor to be here on the Joy Reid Show.

[Jason Johnson]

Behind you is your previous New York Times bestseller. I think it was a number one bestseller called the Grift, which we can talk about as well about all of these Byron Donalds that are out here grifting on the, on the right wing and saying, oh, we, we love you, Mr. Trump. We love Mr. Trump. What do you need, Mr. Trump? So tell me about this new book. What is the, what is the premise of it? It looks really great in the trailer.

[Joy Reid]

The book is called Burned Down Master's House. It is based on real people in our history who have been erased, who fought back against slavery. These are names you don't know. It is historical fiction, but I took court records and newspaper articles and created this story of resistance. This is not another slavery story. This is not a story of victimhood. It's a story of rebellion. It's a story of justice. It's a story of no matter what your circumstances are, you are going to fight. And it's so interesting. Joy, I was here in the previous segment, you talking about what's happening in Minnesota. These were black people who were told when they fought back they were the terrorists. These are black folks who were told when they fought back they were the animals. These were black folks who were told when they fought back they were unpatriotic. So the history rhymes in this moment. And there is this theme in the book that the characters say over and over, don't let them take what they can't touch. This book is about radical hope. And I hope that it imprints people and motivates folks to say, what can we do in this moment? The blueprint is there. These are names you have not heard and I can recall. I really felt like I need to have this story out there when I heard Kanye west who kind of sort of apologized, saying slavery was a choice when I saw the governor of Florida say there were personal benefits to slavery or the former governor of South Carolina not being able to say the Civil War was about slavery. This book is raw, raw liberation and resistance. And I think in this moment it's, it's so timely.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah. And when I saw the trailer, I thought about that real house that burned down. Right there. Was that. Yeah, that burned out. I think it was Mississippi last year. And satisfying, I think, because, you know, all of us were like, oh, the ancestors to litify and burnt that house to the ground, you know, and there were people as you write about in your book and as you said, you fictionalize them, but there were so many instances of enslaved people who burned an entire home to the ground who you know, slipped a little something into the, into the drinks of their so called owners and who did all sorts of things from aborting their. The pregnancies that were as a result of rape. So it would deny these so called owners their property and using herbs from the continent to do it that they learned, you know, and sort of a means that they learned in Africa to do it. So there was so much resistance. Why do you suppose? Well, I mean, I think we know why the US has chosen to play that down so much. Do you think it's fear that if you talk about the resistance to enslavement, it will inspire present day black people and empathetic white people to stand up against tyranny.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's one thing for us to not know our history, for us to think slavery was just two pages and so on, but the other thing, too, is that they don't want to create any John Browns, right?

[Jason Johnson]

You know, I've had. I've had this question for a lot. I'm like, why do white people get mad when they're like, you took down our statues of Robert E. Lee and you're disrespecting. I'm like, why don't y' all love John Brown? John Brown was a bad mother.

[Joy Reid]

He was the boss.

[Jason Johnson]

If I was a white young person, I'll be like, you know, who's a badass? John Brown was like, exactly.

[Joy Reid]

That's the stuff. That's what they. They don't want you to know because I always say this. White supremacy begins in the home, solidified in the schools, and etched in stone in media. And the other thing, too, is that when I say burned down master's house, you know, it's the history rhymes in many ways. I'm talking about that master's house could be these. These tech bros. That master's house could be these. These major media companies, right? That master's house. Are all these billionaires ruling us? What would it look like if we could take these structures down, right? Just take these structures down. And they're afraid of that. They're afraid when they see the progress, that terrifies them. You know, we think about the time after Reconstruction. That was too much progress, terrified them. We think about after Barack Obama. We can't have this again. Too many black folks are getting in Congress. So I think that it's important to tell the sanitized story of. Of slavery. And listen, you know, these uprising and revolts, it wasn't. You know, we love Denmark Vesey and Nat Turner, but it wasn't just them. These are newspaper articles. I found newspaper articles of what you just mentioned poisoning the people who, quote, unquote, owned you for fighting back every single day. And I said, my God, this has got to be a story in there. There's something powerful in this, and people don't want that kind of power. That kind of power is contagious. And when I was writing this book, I just believe that, you know what? I'm not going to stop fighting. We can all can. We all can contribute how we're able to contribute. This is my act of literary resistance. And that's where I'm. I'm leaning into it. And I want to also add, this is going to upset some people. In this book, there are two characters that we would now call gay or queer. That's very rare for a story around American chattel slavery. I am burning down.

[Jason Johnson]

There were no, there were no gay folks. Gay people were created by disco.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, gay folks. When, when Diana Ross had her first hit record, all the gay folks came around, you know what I'm saying? So I am taking the narrative and spinning it. And I also include as an ode to the grift, a black enslaver in this book. You know, who, who says literally, slavery is a choice. I mean, there's some, there's some layers in there that, you know, even when I think of you were breaking down Minnesota and these ICE agents, you know, slave patrols, they were enforced by the federal government. The slave patrols profited from this. They were militarized. Right. So it's crazy that our history is rhyming with the 1850s and 1860s.

[Jason Johnson]

Oh, and there were black, you know, there were the Byron Donald style. Yes. Slave catching was actually really lucrative business. Oh, yeah, you get a bounty for it. And so you had people warning, watch out for these, these kidnappers who are coming to town. It is so symmetrical with what ICE and the Border Patrol are. They're going in, catching people claiming they're not citizens, demanding they show your papers. That is what black freedmen had to do. They had to walk around with their freedom papers everywhere they went to try to avoid being kidnapped. And sometimes they would be kidnapped anyway. And so it is so symmetrical with what's happening with ice. The only way to truly understand it is if you really do understand the history of enslavement.

[Joy Reid]

And you know, I was talking to, on my show on Sirius xm, somebody called in and this is so powerful to me. I don't want to take their line, but I'll tell you what they said. They, you know, we've all been through terror and trauma. My, My grandfather was born and raised in the, in the Jim Crow south of Gooseland, Virginia. So the book takes place in Gooseland, where my, my grandfather was born and raised. But he said knowledge manages terror. Knowledge manages terror. So how do we get through this moment? The way that we get through it, what you just broke down earlier, it is knowledge that will manage our terror. So when I'm in moments of feeling afraid, feeling, feeling concerned, I can go back to me being a black studies major at Rutgers University that manages my terror. I think about these characters that every name in this book you should know Who Charity Butler is, you should know who Josephine Webb is. That knowledge manages our terror. And it lets us know that there is. There is a storm, there will be casualties, but if you make it out on the other side of it, like Sweet Honey in the Rock says, you can be different. And that that's what really sticks in my. In my soul. So in many ways, this book is ancestral. All the secondary characters are all of my ancestors in Gooseland, Virginia. You know, I'm from Philly, but my grandpa was part of the Great Migration. Right. So all of that, all of that, it manages our terror, it manages our anxiety, it attaches itself to us so you can burn down whatever houses in your life that's holding you back.

[Jason Johnson]

Who's your favorite character in the book?

[Joy Reid]

My favorite character is Charity Butler. And to give you, you know, you'll get more in the book. But we all know the name Thaddeus Stevens, right? Amazing abolitionist, they said, like, why isn't he a hero?

[Jason Johnson]

More. I don't get it.

[Joy Reid]

No, but. But Joy, as you'll see in the book, early on in his career, he enslaved a black woman named Charity Butler, destroyed an entire black family, destroyed her life, and she was erased from the historical record. I found her court documents.

[Jason Johnson]

Wow.

[Joy Reid]

And he destroyed her. And I hope with this book that people will see the complicated history of Thaddeus Stevens. Great abolitionist, had a black woman he was allegedly partnered with, but in the beginning of his career in Pennsylvania, he put a black woman back in slavery who freed herself with the Gradual Abolition act and put her kids in slavery as well. Wait till you read this story. And she found a way, Charity Butler, to burn it down.

[Jason Johnson]

Absolutely. I love. Who's the biggest villain in the book.

[Joy Reid]

I would say it probably is the. The black enslaver. There was one black enslaver. He's a composite character of two. Now, most black enslavers, they were protecting their family, but there were. There were a few of them who were not. And they would perform joy to be as evil as the white enslaver because they wanted to compete. And so he is very insidious, very complicated, and shows you that even back then there was a grift, even back then there was profit in upholding white supremacy. So he is probably the. The greatest villain. And that, you know, some folks have gotten mad about the book and upset about it because I don't censor the white characters. And that's unusual for a story about slavery. White characters are not censored. It is the black characters who are. Who are Centered in the book. So there is a lot there and who. I'm so excited publishing Eve, my first fiction book, told me, joy, go. You know, stick with nonfiction. I want to mix it up. I want to do something different and learn from, you know, the folks who taught, who inspired me, like Richard Wright and Arna Bontemps and those historical fiction writers.

[Jason Johnson]

And so what. Yeah, what. What was behind the decision to. Because you, like you said, you did all of this research. You could have done this as a nonfiction book. Why did you decide to go with a fiction book instead?

[Joy Reid]

Because it's a way to teach. I can recall reading Richard Wright's Uncle Tom's Children. That's an amazing book. It's a way to teach. When I was in college and I didn't know a lot about black history. And when I read Margaret Walker's Jubilee, I know I'm getting kind of in the weeds of black history studies, but it triggered me and I understood. I was able to understand history more and policy and people. And I wanted to interject dreams and goals and aspirations. Right. That no matter who you are, you still want to love, you still can see beyond your lens. And I thought it was an emotional way to really teach people and inspire people. And also I wanted to burn it down in a literary sense. I wanted to set fire to it in this book. Joy, I don't use the N word one time, not once, because I didn't want to write a book about slavery where the N word is used, you know, packed 10, 10 times on every page.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

And. And, you know, there are even some. Some in some slave narratives that didn't use the N word. So I was able to do it my way. I have over 40 sources in it, and I think at the end of the day, it's going to trigger people. And I love the early reviews compared it to sinners.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

We need liberation and acts of resistance. And, you know, I also want to add quickly, Joy, I want to thank you for having me on because I'm a New York Times bestseller, as are you. But, you know, it's been hard to get press around this kind of book. That's why independent media is so important in this moment. And you haven't hear it means so much because even with our success, sometimes, you know, it's. It's hard some of those outlets, if you will. So this right here, your show now.

[Jason Johnson]

Clay, that you're going to have a challenge. Right. Because mainstream media is being obedient to the anti DEI White House, which has said we do not. Particularly in the 250th year birthday year of the United States, when Donald Trump is planning what WWE fights on the. On the. On the south lawn of the White House. They don't want narratives that are going to disrupt their gauzy fake narrative about the United States. They're pulling slavery exhibits from museums, cover up the true history of the country. The last thing they want is anybody talking about slavery this year.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. Especially rebelling and rising up. So that said, I'm feeling so inspired in this moment. I'm so happy for where many of us are. And I want y' all to know I met Joy Ann Reed many, many years ago at the Griot, and she gave me a job, y'. All. She got me income in my pocket.

[Jason Johnson]

Putting money in the pockets of bright young men, especially a bright young black. I'm like, go ahead and take some money.

[Joy Reid]

Exactly. She supported me.

[Jason Johnson]

Take it.

[Joy Reid]

Right. So. So, yeah, so it's interesting, but I'm just thankful and excited and ready for people to get a little bit of inspiration and get a little bit of justice and feel that. And I feel like all the people are with me. So, yeah, of course they're afraid, but you know what? Be uncomfortable.

[Jason Johnson]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

There was one review I read it said every. In all caps, every white woman should pick up this book, you damn skippy. Because I also show the complicity of white women and slavery. I have a whole character about that. Like, this is. This is real. So they're afraid, but I ain't never scared.

[Jason Johnson]

Absolutely. There's a reason, you know, for those in the chat, and everybody is loving you in the chat, both the chats and substack as well, that people are trying to make, you know, empathy illegal. Right. I mean, there is this attempt now by this regime to say that empathy is evil. Their religious belief among white Christian nationalists is that empathy is wrong. Why do they think it's wrong? Go back to the Whiskey Rebellion.

[Joy Reid]

Yes.

[Jason Johnson]

Indentured people and black enslaved people getting together to, like, try to overthrow the plutocracy. And they were like, ooh, we can't let that happen again. Let's make sure these white indentured people have something these blacks don't have, which is whiteness. And whiteness was invented to keep white poor people from combining with black poor people and overthrowing white rich people. And that's the only reason we have any of these sort of, you know, apostasies against religion, against real Christianity, is because they actually need white Christians to believe they worship a whole different God than black Christians and that they, you know, that black Christians are damned to hell and that you can't combine with them. The worst thing that could have possibly happened, Clay, and I know you're dealing with this on your SiriusXM show. The worst mistake that this regime could have possibly made was kill two white people in Minnesota in one of the whitest states in the union. There's no way they can expand, explain to other white people why they should not be empathetic to a white mother of three with that iconic picture with her big baby belly and a black ICU nurse with the va. They make that make sense to other white people who are now like you in my neighborhood, killing my white neighbors. They've done a huge mistake here and they know it, which is why they're pulling tiny Greg Bevino and shutting out of Minneapolis and getting Kristi Noem to shut the hell up and trying to improve things by putting Tom Homan in. What do you mean?

[Joy Reid]

You know who's been on my spirit, Joy? Philando Castile.

[Jason Johnson]

Yes.

[Joy Reid]

He was killed. Remember that?

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

In Minnesota, dying on Facebook Live with his girlfriend and a baby girl in the back seat. You remember that?

[Jason Johnson]

Yes, of course.

[Joy Reid]

It was so graphic, so extreme. And what happened to Renee Nicole, Good. What happened to the 37 year old nurse. It's, it's, it breaks my heart and it enrages me. And I just say to myself, I wish that kind of empathy would have been for Philando Castile, who also had a legal firearm.

[Jason Johnson]

Yes, he did.

[Joy Reid]

And the NRA didn't say a Jim Crow word. They didn't say anything about it. They're saying something now because this, this nurse was shot and had a legal firearm on him. But I, Philando Castile's been on my spirit just thinking how he was shot, dying on Facebook Live. And so you're right. They, they. The plan. Y', all, y' all messed up. Y'. All, Y' all did something. And now we'll see if that will trigger people enough because their idea is to flood the zone. And then they're also trying to make them seem like traitors.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

Called them domestic terrorists. They're, they're, they're like, they're part of some radical group when they're just driving and, and, and helping somebody who got pushed down. We're in some really bizarre times, but nonetheless, I still feel like, I still feel optimism there. I still feel it. It's. It's in my blood. Do you feel that? Do you feel it as well, Joy?

[Jason Johnson]

Well, I can see that it's unsustainable. I mean, like, you know, slavery was, was never going to end until it ended, you know, Nazism, which people are calling them Nazis. Yeah. Nazism is just an update of Jim Crow and slavery mentality. It's the same. They just copied it. Right. And all of these systems seem so powerful until they don't. And to the point of calling these kind folks terrorists who are just trying to defend their brown and black neighbors, every indigenous tribe that fought to stop invading land grabbing settlers from taking their land. They were all considered terrorists. They were all considered terrorists. I mean, the African National Congress were literally designated by our government, our federal government, all the way through Ronald Reagan as a terrorist organization. That's Nelson Mandela's outfit. They were considered terrorists. Why? Because they were standing up against the plutocratic wealthy European bosses who decided they own South Africa. We have plutocratic wealthy, in some cases, Epstein files dirtied billionaires and multi, multi millionaires who want control of the country. And the last thing they need is a real majority, meaning a majority already of blacks, a majority already of Asians, a majority already of brown people. And then if you add to it a majority of white people who all agree that they're the bad guy and not each other. If a majority, even if 50% of white people were to turn on them, they could not continue to rule this country. Which is why they have created an entire version of Christianity that says empathy is evil. Jesus is too woke. We don't love the immigrant. We hate the immigrant. We don't love the poor. We hate the poor. They invented this insane fake Christianity for a reason. They cannot allow a majority of white people to become empathetic to non white people and to put aside their own privilege and say maybe we all can have it. If you ever got a majority of white people to vote for equality. No, I, I would tell you no Republican could ever be elected in the United States in any state ever again. Period.

[Joy Reid]

Joy, what you just broke down is basically, you know, the blueprint, the plan for Fred Hampton.

[Jason Johnson]

That's correct.

[Joy Reid]

That's the, the blueprint, the plan that Frederick Douglass had.

[Jason Johnson]

Correct.

[Joy Reid]

That Dr. King had that what should have been Bacon's Rebellion, 1676, where black folks and white folks.

[Jason Johnson]

Rebellion. That's it. Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

All of that. And, and the Native Americans supposed to rise up and work together. That's always been the fear.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

That even in the margins, if we get on the same page, that scares the hell out of them. We haven't had white folks vote in a majority for A for a Democrat since 1964. Lyndon B. Johnson. Yeah, if they could flip that. They're terrified of it. So they have to convince you. That's why I say Trump is a mix of Jim Crow meets Jim Jones. I've always said that. And Trump is also the hate that the GOP created. You know, let's not act like Trump is in a vacuum. We're talking about Nixon, we're talking about Ford, folks. Forget the disaster of Ford and his record on something like, we're talking about Reagan, we're talking about Bush, we're talking about his son. They've created this. I call it The Southern Strategy 2.0. Right. And you know, and one of the things that I say I can recall, I've been in the barbershop and folks who I love will bring up trans and immigrants and blah, blah, blah. And I say, you realize you're in that they them category too, right? You do realize that, right? When they come to Philly, where I'm from, they ain't just looking for trans folks and immigrants, they're looking for melanin Babylon.

[Jason Johnson]

It's true.

[Joy Reid]

That's the fear for us to collectively trigger and work together. And I truly believe that one flame can spark revolutions. It can be one person to inspire you, if not to be. I mean, I'm proud of this book. I'm just proud of it. But if we would have taught this history of slavery, that's a burn down master's house. We'd have a much different country. Yeah, much different country. Because you couldn't deny the facts. You couldn't deny the facts.

[Jason Johnson]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

We have more protection. We're uplifting the Confederacy right now. Yeah, the Confederacy. Then you wonder why we call you racist, but don't praise the damn Confederacy. Yeah, I mean, it's all these things, but nonetheless, nonetheless, I believe it can't sustain itself. Every institution that has fallen apart, it has always been the people who have rose up. I mean, Lincoln was a racist. He wasn't an abolitionist. He was forced into glory. Lyndon B. Johnson, forced into glory. It's always been the people that have said no more. And my prayer is that we get there sooner than later.

[Jason Johnson]

No, absolutely. Because this kind of, this sort of hate politics, it only works while the deliverers of the message are credible. And increasingly, even for a lot of Republicans, they now see Trump for the clown that he is. He is doddering, he is bruised, cankly, weird. He's just a geezer. And sort of the glow has fallen off of the orange demon Right. He's just a crazy old man who's. He's like a make a wish kid that just wants to have crypto and be a billionaire and have the Kennedy center honor him. The, the cold open for Saturday Night Live was perfect. This. He just wants everything to be named Trump. He just wants his name on buildings. He's a sad, pathetic, you know, overwrought, you know, failure who's been, like, pushed into this sort of Jim Jones role because he's got the right sort of racist credibility. And, you know, he was on TV and now it's kind of, you know, the whole thing is running out of gas. The car, the old, you know, the old clunker is running out of gas. They know it. And so they're getting desperate and they're trying now to use military occupation to steal these blue states before the blue states can put in a Congress that will cut off the money. And by the way, last question before I let you go. What do you make of the fact that both of the two Minnesota United States Senators, Tina Smith and Amy Klobuchar, both will be voting against the supplemental to fund the Department of Homeland Security under the completely incompetent Kristi Noem, who doesn't know what habeas corpus is? Do you think there will be enough Democrats who will actually stand up in the United States Senate and say no and refuse to continue funding? And by the way, for the chat, it wouldn't end their money. Now they're funded all the way through next year. But to cut the funding, do you think there'll be enough Democrats?

[Joy Reid]

I'm a registered voter in New Jersey. I'm looking at you, Senator Cory Booker. I know you shouldn't say this on media outlets when you talk politics, but the truth is, I don't know, Joy. I really don't know. It was a massive mistake when those seven Democrats and one independent caved in November during the shutdown. You either do it or you don't do it. You ride it all the way out, or you don't even get on the ride. Right. You don't get off midway. Right. So I would hope so. There should be enough. But I don't know. You know, at this point, of course, I'm a. I'm a Democrat, and I vote Democrat because I'm not going to go with the party that celebrates the Confederacy. But this, this goes beyond the D and the R. Can we move freely about the cabin? And right now we're not able to. So I just hope that Cory Booker, John Fetterman. That's even pointless for me, hoping for that.

[Jason Johnson]

I don't even know. But don't even count him. I'm not even counting him in my six. Forget Fetterman. Fetterman fooled everybody. He's just maga, right? Remember, he did shoot a black man or something like that.

[Joy Reid]

Well, to the chest. We could have had Malcolm Kenyatta, but let me not go back three, four years.

[Jason Johnson]

People were like, we. Your people were like, trust Fetterman because he can win in a purple state. And Malcolm Kenyatta was right there. Y' all see, these are bad choices you make in a primary. That dude was Maga, hiding in plain sight. And he dresses in shorts in the winter and he's weird. And y' all never should have put him in there. What a mistake. He's just Joe Manchin with shorts on.

[Joy Reid]

And, you know, and here's the sad part of where we are, and I hope we can get past it. Nobody cares until it impacts them, right? That's where we are. So sadly for these rich Senate Democrats, not all. Someone like Senator Warnock in Georgia, I adore him. Right? You won't care until it impacts you. And it will hit you eventually. I don't know how, I don't know when, but this is not. There's no guardrails here, so I would hope so. And if they don't, the ones who didn't, I hope they're properly voted out. Because if you don't do politics, it'll do you. So you got to stand up.

[Jason Johnson]

The book is burned down. Master's House. It is going to be available in the shop. We're going to put it in. Zuri, reach out. Make sure you order, order, order. We need to make this the latest Clay Kane New York Times number one bestseller. We already know it's going to get there. And if the mainstream media wants to sleep on this, well, you are the ones to lose. Because this brother is brilliant. A fantastic writer, a fantastic researcher, an incredible journalist. Brilliant. And I'm very blessed to say I knew this all the way back from thegrio.com in the year of our Lord 2012 and figured that out then. So y', all, y', all, have you had plenty of time to figure it out yourselves. Please listen also to Clay Kane's show on Sirius XM. Let them know when they can do that.

[Joy Reid]

12:00Pm to 3:00pm Eastern Standard Time, channel 1, 2, 6. And follow me on all social media at Clay Kane, there you go.

[Jason Johnson]

He keeps it simple. Make it Clay Kane. I try to do too, Joey.

[Paul Butler]

Every.

[Jason Johnson]

Just make it simple. Clay came. Best of. I don't even have to wish you best of luck. This is going to be a New York Times bestseller. The TJRS team is loving you. And also I is somebody saying Clay is fine. Who that time of my life 2006 said Clay, is she just a fine or fire? I don't have my glasses on, so she either saying, you fire or fine.

[Joy Reid]

Baby, I'm 48 years old, no filter. I'm struggling. It's moisturized.

[Jason Johnson]

You moisturize. Keep that shea butter coming.

[Joy Reid]

I'm light skinned, so I gotta really.

[Jason Johnson]

Like don't crack, but light skin. Need extra shea butter.

[Joy Reid]

I put that extra on.

[Jason Johnson]

Extra on. Okay, thank you.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you.

[Jason Johnson]

Bye, my friend. Okay, everyone. People are loving it. I gotta, you know, we got, we got. Hold on. Let's see. Brother Paul is saying he's here. We got yes indeed's coming from the sub stack chat. The substack chat's doubling into. They're jumping into. So I want to make sure that everybody knows he's super cute, says Michelle. Oh, y' all are in here. Why are y' all flirting with my guests? They're cutting up especially. It's the YouTube channel. Just go to the joyride shopper, go buy his book. The substackers are being very well behaved. Let me give the sub stackers an A. They're getting some hearts. The sub stackers are being very well behaved, but the YouTubers are active. Y' all are acting up. Now I know where the naughty kids are. It's on the YouTube side. Is this the lemon heads doing this? Who's saying this? They all go. They're all flirting with Clay. I'm gonna say I should screenshot all of your flirtations and send it to him. It'll boost his ego. We got his fire over here. Tanhauser on the substack side saying he is fine. He is fire. He is fire. Okay, fire. You said fire. But over here they said five. So y' all please buy his book. It is really good. It's actually very entertaining. And yes, let us also congratulate Sinners. It is now the most nominated Oscar nominated film in history. 16 nominations. I personally am rooting for Delroy Lindo to invest. Supporting actor. He was to me, he was the best thing in the film. But every single person, the direction, the production, the. The costumes. Also nominated, man, the cinematography. Are you kidding me? Ryan Coogler, best director. He should win that. It should be best screenplay. Like I actually think it should run the table. Ture and I disagreed on this one, but we are seriously going to be watching the Oscars because we are going to be rooting for Michael B. Jordan. He's up for best actor. Teyana Taylor also up for best actress for One Battle After Another. She just won the Golden Globe. We're going to do more talk about the movie and about all those fun things that's coming on another show. But our sort of dream guests are in Sundance right now to talk about that. So we're waiting for them to come back from Sundance. Jason and I missed it this year. I'm a little sad during Sundance without us.

[Joy Reid]

All right, that's the next year we.

[Jason Johnson]

Had to produce these shows. We got to produce our show. Okay, I'm going to do. I want to do a quick correction because I think it's very important to be, you know, to be loud. As loud if you're wrong, as loud as if you're right as well. So. And I didn't. We didn't do it on this show. We never really talked about the Chipotle situation. But I was about to say, did we make a boo boo? We did not. No. Not on the show. But this was one of those things where I kind of rage reposted somebody who was posting about Chipotle after word spread that pro ice, anti DEI billionaire Bill Ackman, who is horrible, horrible. That's the guy who chased Claudine Gay out of the presidency of Harvard, had and also donated to Jonathan Ross, who's the ICE agent who killed Renee Good. That he sits on their. On their board. Well, he actually, you know, sits on their board. That he claims he sat on the board and that because he sits on their board, Chipotle is some way associated with supporting ice. Well, Chipotle has now addressed these allegations that lots of people were making. And they have said and made it very clear that my money. They said Bill Ackerman is not any more affiliated with Chipotle anymore. He's never actually been an executive with the company, but no one said he was an executive. He was once a major shareholder in Chipotle through his company, which is called Pershing Square, but he's no longer affiliated with the company. So in January 2020, as of January of 2026, in a November 2025 earnings call, so last November, Pershing Square told their investors that it had sold all of the remaining Chipotle shares with fully exiting an investment that began more than nine years earlier. So after nine years of being an investor, they exited that investment deal late last year. And that's been confirmed that in fact, Pershing Square has pulled out of Chipotle. So y' all go ahead and get y' all burritos. So Chipotle said, yeah, we ain't. It said, keep us out of it.

[Joy Reid]

Y' all not gonna mess up my.

[Jason Johnson]

Target treatments. They don't want to be Target. And I will note that a bunch of these corporations issued a very tepid letter over this weekend saying please restore calm and peace in Minneapolis because they're scared. Hilton is being targeted because they are housing ICE secret police. So everybody is very concerned about these boycotts. So that means it's working. That means that all the actors. It wasn't us. It wasn't us. Basically, that's. They just screaming out, it wasn't us. It wasn't us.

[Joy Reid]

We love everybody.

[Jason Johnson]

So, yes, please come back in our restaurants, please. People already were naming alternate restaurants to Chipotle. So I apologize for contributing to Chipotle's anxiety, but we want to make sure that we're as loud when we're. I'm actually being louder wrong than I was loud, right? Because I just posted on. On ig. But this is. You can recognize that you made a boo and you corrected it and I correct it. So I want to make sure. If you love Chipotle, go on and eat your Chipotle. Eat your damn Chipotle. It's not even really what you. If you really want Mexican food, you better take your behind to, like, Colorado. Let me tell you, I grew up in Colorado. You go to Denver, you're gonna go to that corner store that make real Mexican. Listen. And the more divey it looks, that's where your food is. And look, we ain't really loving Texas right now, but if you go to South Texas, you need to walk into the store that looks the most like a dive, where you're like, oh, I don't wanna. I don't think that's sanitary to eat in there. That's when you're going to get your good Mexican. Go in that little tiny shop that's off to the beat by itself. Go in there and order you or a burrito. Go and order you some food, baby. Don't say I lied to you. They said, get your bowl. They said, get your bowl. Don't worry about that. Chipotle heard I was playing in a Protest at Jim Pollock 148. They said, get your bowls. Mark Minute said, okay, so let's play our moment of joy, which we really need Today it's really fun. It comes to us from the fine folks of DRP3. Greenland deserve the Noble Peace Prize. Yes, Mr. President, you are a true peacemaker. Because your threats have actually brought Denmark and Greenland closer together than Emma. Oh, it's too tight.

[Katie Fang]

Who knew a colony and its colonizer.

[Jason Johnson]

Could be friends after all these years of tension? And I'm not a Danish colonist. I'm just an immigrant. Right? Take responsibility or I please raise the ice. Greenlander stains have always been kind of toxic. It's like being with someone who lies, cheats, and has zero morals. Milani knows what we are talking about, right?

[Katie Fang]

All things considered, there's nothing as unifying.

[Noreen Shah]

As a common enemy.

[Jason Johnson]

That's how you make peace. You want peace? A little piece of Venezuela.

[Joy Reid]

A little piece of Greenland.

[Jason Johnson]

You goddamn piece of.

[Joy Reid]

That's completely egg 10 with a Starbucks.

[Jason Johnson]

Okay? Yeah, don't trust the subtitles. Stupid subtitles. Yes, Denmark deserves a no balls prize. But you, Mr. President, deserve the Nobel Prize for uniting us against you. Still too tight. Okay, so first of all, I love everything about that clip, especially the fact that you finally get to see what Greenlanders look like. We've made Greenland this sort of amorphous thing that Trump wants. And forgetting. These are indigenous people. As you can see, they look like the indigenous people in our country. This is a land full of indigenous.

[Joy Reid]

They don't teach us that much in school, so you got to forgive them.

[Jason Johnson]

It is about 90% indigenous or something like that. And then it is Denmark who is their colonizer. And as that tape said, as that little clip said, only Donald Trump could bring the colonizer and the colonized together. That is our moment of joy. If you have not voted for us in the NAACP Image Awards, please vote for us. We really would love to win it. It's fun. But we're gonna go anyway and just have a good time. Hold on, hold on. Just fun, to be honest.

[Joy Reid]

I'm gonna do my shameless plug again.

[Jason Johnson]

Do it.

[Joy Reid]

Everybody take your phones out and scan that QR code.

[Jason Johnson]

Where is it?

[Joy Reid]

There it is.

[Jason Johnson]

Scan that QR code right there and vote for the joy and by Clay King's book. We want to be a part of making his book a bestseller. Buy the book. Buy the book. We support authors on this show. So please, please, please buy Kate Clay Kane's book. You're gonna love it. It's a lot of fun. I just started it. It is. It is a. It is a page turner. It is fun. It is fabulous. You're gonna. You're gonna love every minute of a job. You love Clay Kane. You're gonna love this book. Thank you guys for watching and listening to the Joy Reid show. Please be sure to like and subscribe and share and hit the little notification thing so that you'll know when we go live again. Because you never know we're gonna go live. We might catch a vibe. Catch a vibe. I need you answer. Totally. You should have. You like I can't eat my chipotle. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Barack Obama said. All right, y' all take care. We'll see you guys on the next Jervito on Wednesday. Peace.

[Joy Reid]

Getting back to the basics grassroot level?

[Jason Johnson]

Let me dig a little deeper with the shovel Plenty k tail the force from the trees that I'm hard to detect Like a black hole in a dog? Injustice anywhere, it's a threat to justice everywhere? Let me make this clear? I got a bone to pick and I'll never fear the threat of poverty they don't want to talk about it they wrap the party so I'm a real talk about it for sure. All right, that's it.