Three Stories, Three Tragedies | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Joy Reid Show

Episode Title: Three Stories, Three Tragedies | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!
Air Date: July 11, 2026
Host: Joy-Ann Reid
Co-hosts/Panelists: Jason, special guests including Ben Crump, Christine & Elmore Wansley, Dr. Ibram X. Kendi, Kika Matos, Lindsay Addario, Janine DiGiovanni

---

Episode Theme & Overview

This powerful episode of The Joy Reid Show centers on three interconnected stories of tragedy and injustice—each highlighting systemic failures in justice, racial equity, and human rights, both in the United States and globally. The episode is structured around in-depth interviews with families, advocates, and experts, featuring:

• The case of Nolan Xavier Wells, a young Black man found dead in Mississippi, and his family's fight for justice
• The fatal shooting of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, an immigrant father killed by ICE in Houston
• The ongoing, underreported genocide and humanitarian catastrophe in Sudan

Joy Reid threads these stories together with analysis, empathy, and a critical eye toward patterns of denial, devaluation, and impunity in institutions that are supposed to protect human life. She is joined by legal experts, journalists, activists, and directly affected families for nuanced, often emotional conversations.

---

Key Segments & Insights

---

1. Opening & Introduction

[00:47 – 03:45]

• Joy welcomes viewers with her trademark warmth, banter about trolls in the chat, and a shoutout to her glam squad.
• Main Preview: “We have a big show tonight. We're going to speak with the parents of Nolan Xavier Wells… one of the more tragic cases.”
  [03:36, Joy Reid]

---

2. Injustice in the Case of Nolan Xavier Wells

[03:45 – 22:18]

Background & Family Perspective

• Joy interviews Christine and Elmore Wansley (Nolan’s parents) and attorney Ben Crump about the murky and suspicious circumstances behind Nolan’s death.
• Systemic Neglect & Racial Injustice:
  “You have to unfortunately, force the system to take you seriously and force the system to take seriously the death of your loved one.” – Joy Reid [04:37]

Critical Details

• Inconsistencies in Witness Testimony:
  “There are two stories here. One story is that Nolan chose to stay behind with a girl. The other story is that he chose to stay behind with some other friends.” – Joy Reid [14:08]
• Evidence Tampering & Missing Data:
  • Ben Crump raises concern about missing messages from Nolan’s phone, deletion of social media accounts, and lack of action from police.
  • “Just to find that there was absolutely nothing…it was very interesting. I was just like, yeah, I don't know how something about this doesn't feel right.” – Christine Wansley [15:54]

Family’s Pain & Resilience

• Christine and Elmore share memories, grief, and frustration with lack of transparency.
• “We just want him to have fun one last time...And it's...It's sad because it's...one of those times where you…question yourself as a parent.” – Elmore Wansley [19:03]

Call to Action & Hope

• “You obviously…are wonderful parents, loving parents, good people. Don’t question yourself…You don't need to have that on your heart.” – Joy Reid [19:36]
• Ben Crump commits to pursuing independent investigation and technical recovery of deleted messages.

---

3. Denialism, Racism & the American Narrative

[25:05 – 39:23]

• Special Guest: Dr. Ibram X. Kendi discusses America’s historical refusal to value Black life, suppression of history (e.g., erasing slave ownership from national records), and how these legacies shape current tragedies.

• Quote: “The denialism is constant, and it's a constant through line, through American history.”
  – Dr. Kendi [26:24]

• Racial Double Standards:
  Joy draws parallels between the treatment of Black and white victims and suspects, including the Central Park Five and the current case.

The Emancipator & Media Truth-Telling

• Dr. Kendi revives the spirit of historic abolitionist media with “The Emancipator,” seeking a new anti-racist journalism for the authoritarian age.

---

4. Systemic Racism’s (Un)Changing Faces

[39:45 – 45:11]

• Panel discusses how, if the racial roles were reversed in the Nolan Wells case, Black youth would be presumed guilty and face swift, harsh prosecution.
• References to historic atrocities—Tulsa, Florida lynchings—and how the same patterns repeat.
• “All it took for them to burn black Wall street was for a young black man…to accidentally brush his arm up against a white woman.”
  – Joy Reid [43:38]

---

5. Another ICE Killing: Lorenzo Salgado Araujo

[45:23 – 61:13]

Incident Overview & Official Response

• 35-year Houston resident, father, killed by ICE in an unmarked van despite being law-abiding and in the process of regularization.
• Texas officials and the Mexican government demanding an investigation; ICE alleged the van was “used as a weapon,” countered by witnesses and video evidence.

Human Cost & Pattern of Violence

• “ICE has done another killing. And it's horrific. He is a man who was a law abiding man…” – Joy Reid [06:33]
• Kika Matos (National Immigration Law Center) points out:
  “Since Trump came into office…21 people have been shot by ICE. Eight of them have been killed. Five of those eight were deaths by shooting. Three of those people…were US Citizens.” [56:56]

International Implications

• Mexican government escalates to international courts, possibly UN human rights bodies; mirrors cases in Minneapolis, Chicago, and elsewhere.

Systemic Unaccountability

• Panel laments that the U.S. Justice Department’s Civil Rights division is “in the hands of an ideologue,” leaving families no recourse but the international system.

---

6. Genocide, Media Silence & Resource Imperialism in Sudan

[68:02 – 98:22]

Journalist Report & Eyewitness Testimony

(Guests: Janine DiGiovanni, Lindsay Addario of Vanity Fair)

• Sudan is enduring what is likely the world’s worst humanitarian crisis—mass rape, starvation, drone warfare, hundreds of thousands dead.

• Quote: “There is mass sexual violence of women, also of men, but mainly of women. There is starvation used as a tool of war…” – Janine DiGiovanni [76:15]

• Foreign actors (UAE, Egypt, Russia's Wagner/Africa Corps) stoke and profit from the conflict—motivated by gold, control of the Red Sea, and other vital resources.

• Humanitarian aid curtailed, with US and European budget cuts exacerbating famine.

Media & Institutional Failure

• Western media rarely covers Sudan, Gaza, or Congo—wars in Africa are “inconvenient” for powerful allies and rarely spark world action.
• Satellite imagery and firsthand reports give evidence, but lack of will and racism keep the crisis in darkness.
• Lindsay Addario: “Journalists are a voice of the people…When you shut out journalists it gives complete impunity to the people in power.” [83:49]

---

7. Analysis: Political Systems and the Demand for Real Change

[105:48 – End]

Domestic U.S. Political Landscape

• Discussion of political gridlock: housing bill drama, inability of Dems to build real enthusiasm, and the threat of growing authoritarianism.

• Candor about sexual abuse crises across both parties, but especially in Republican ranks.

• Joy’s Advice to Democrats: Don’t just offer "calm" or change the branding to "D." “People want actual change…They want the transaction…You need to say credibly that you're going to change things, not that you're just going to say, Donald Trump is bad, now I'm Democrat, here I am, I'm not Trump.” [117:27]

• The grassroots demand for progress, material improvement, and accountability is palpable—voters want more than symbolic gestures.

Socioeconomic Reality

• Frustration with high living costs, poor infrastructure, bad health care, and economic hardship.
• Young people’s political identity is shaped less by labels and more by who delivers real outcomes.

---

8. Moment of Joy & Closing

[137:03 – End]

• To lighten the heavy tone, Joy shares a charming art exercise involving children drawing Peanuts characters.
• Uplifting advice to take a break from politics, enjoy small pleasures, and return next week for more substantive conversation.
• Preview: Next week’s guest, Michigan Governor candidate Omar El Sayed, another leader aiming to energize and excite the base with concrete solutions.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On forced family advocacy:
  “What black families have had to do is go very, very public in their moment of grief…in order to force law enforcement to act.” – Joy Reid [05:05]

• On racial double standards:
  “Imagine this photo, but reverse the races…how fast would those three black boys have been behind bars?” – Joy Reid [26:24]

• On ICE/federal violence:
  “ICE did not present himself to him in an orderly manner, in a professional manner that any law enforcement agency should have.” – Lorenzo Salgado Araujo Family [52:44]

• On the “forever war” machine:
  “[W]e’re going to be in a forever war in Iran that's literally enriching a small group of people…Their business is war.” – Joy Reid [132:04]

• On the systemic nature of the crisis:
  “They're selling America for parts. And while you guys are so distracted by Trump's latest idiotic thing…we're being suckered.” – Joy Reid [131:55]

---

Structure & Flow

• Each main story is given depth and emotional gravity, with guests tied directly to the events.
• Major social and political analysis bridges each section, often weaving together the themes of racialized injustice, media erasure, and erosion of democracy.
• Quotes and moments traverse from the specific pain of individuals to the systemic analysis of national and global trends.

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Joy Reid Show is a deeply engaged, unsparing look at recurring tragedies born of racism, xenophobia, and structural neglect—linking the deaths of Nolan Xavier Wells and Lorenzo Salgado to patterns of American denialism and extending the frame to genocide in Sudan. Reid, with her guests, exposes not only failures but also the resilience and agency of those forced to seek justice themselves. The call to action? Demand better and refuse obedience to parties or institutions that do not deliver real, material change.

---

For listeners:

If you only have time for a few segments—do not miss:

• [09:13] Interview with Nolan Xavier Wells' family & Ben Crump
• [25:05] Dr. Ibram X. Kendi on denialism and Black lives
• [45:23] ICE killing of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo – family and legal context
• [68:02] Firsthand reporting on Sudan’s genocide and global complicity

---

For news, empathy, and analysis that connects the personal with the political, this is essential listening.

Transcript

[Doug]

And we're live from the living room as Doug eyes up the Match Day spread. He's reaching for the buffalo wing. Perfect. Hang on. What's this? Oh, he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. Incredible. What a finish. Sensational combination. Look at the delight on his face. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a pack of Pepsi. Zero sugar for today's match. It's poetry in motion. Okay.

[Jason]

Hello, hello, hello, everyone, and welcome to

[Joy Reid]

the Joy Reid Show. I see the chats are already active. We've had an early troll that's always exciting. The trolls jump in first. They want to be the first in line because they're such a fan that they're like. They're like a fan upside down. They're so excited. They want to be the first in line to start the trolling.

[Jason]

But happy Friday.

[Joy Reid]

TGIF to all of our friends. Good evening, everyone.

[Jason]

We see Karen Stooks in the house. We see Meredith Holmes in the house. We see Lia Delaney Deloney. We see in the house, we have Denine Farmer says, good evening, everyone.

[Joy Reid]

Happy Friday.

[Jason]

We got everybody, Elizabeth Wilson right up

[Joy Reid]

at the top giving a little hand wave to me and Jason, please hit like and share. Don't even wait. You know, you know, you might as

[Jason]

well go ahead before you even start. You guys are the early adopters. Go ahead and hit like and subscribe.

[Joy Reid]

We appreciate y' all so much. Make sure you also hit that share button. So you're not the only folks that are jumping in early. You could be other. Or you can add other early adopters by hitting like, subscribe and share. Let me pick up everyone in tandem. Our YouTube friends, our substack friends. Hey, substack our Twitchies on Twitch. Our small but mighty Twitch army, which is more than a thousand people now. It's getting bigger. It's small.

[Co-host Jason]

Smallish, definitely is getting bigger.

[Jason]

It's starting to grow. Our little Twitch Army. Our Facebook fam.

[Joy Reid]

Hello to our Facebook fam. And if you're listening on LinkedIn, I didn't know you could watch things on LinkedIn.

[Jason]

So it's news to me that there's

[Joy Reid]

a LinkedIn family, but they are more there, you know. How you doing, Jason?

[Co-host Jason]

I'm doing well. It's so funny, guys around. What do you say? Like 30 minutes before the show is you get trolls inside the comments talking stuff, and it's like, dude, you're a fan. Why do you come in and say stuff before the show starts? I mean, you Literally have time to waste.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Co-host Jason]

That you can come sit down in. Just wait.

[Joy Reid]

I didn't even get to say anything yet.

[Jason]

Like, they, they, they're, they're already mad

[Joy Reid]

and angry, thinking I'm gonna say something that they're gonna object to, but I

[Jason]

haven't said anything yet. Like, I actually haven't had time to say words that would offend them. But they're already offended.

[Joy Reid]

They're pre offended. They're offended in advance.

[Co-host Jason]

Exactly.

[Jason]

So, you know, anyway, big up to Coco.

[Joy Reid]

I got my hair done today and my makeup. So Coco and Janice, the, the, the

[Jason]

fabulous hair and makeup team with the most.

[Joy Reid]

I got fresh hair, fresh platinum, little fresh twists. I got fresh face. So big up to the, the glam squad who always keep it tight, keep it right. And also, I found my earrings I had lost. These are my favorite earrings. As you see, I wear them a lot. But they had gotten to a place where Nala could get at them, and she sneaked them and put them in two separate places and started gnawing on them. So hopefully you don't see them. She tried to start gnawing, but they were too thin for her to gnaw. Know she likes to get glasses, earrings, anything like that. She likes to eat them up. But thanks everybody who is here at the end.

[Co-host Jason]

Somebody's finding that T shirt that you have on. Fly. Let them see that T shirt.

[Jason]

T shirt is really cool.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

She has the earrings too.

[Co-host Jason]

So she has the earrings in.

[Jason]

Yeah, it's a pretty fabulous.

[Joy Reid]

So the T shirt has the same earrings I have on. So I wanted to make sure you guys could see it.

[Co-host Jason]

I, I, you need to get an afro wig.

[Jason]

I, I, I do have an afro wig somewhere.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, I'll find my afro wig somewhere, guys. But yes, this T shirt is very fly. It is not in our shop, but maybe we'll make something similar and throw it in the shop because I, it is very cute. I think I bought it from a black woman who has a Tik Tok shop. Like I am. I'm that person. I'll see something on Tik Tok. Like it. So thank you all for tuning in. We have a big show tonight. We're going to speak with the parents of Nolan Xavier Wells. They are. It is one of the more tragic cases. There's so many of these tragic and really horrifying cases that are, that are just horrifying us as parents, as Americans, as aunties, just as human beings. Such awful cases. They've been making the rounds and telling their story. And I Think it's so important to hear from these victims, hearing it in their own words. And so we're very, very excited that we're going to get the chance to speak with them as well as their attorney, Ben Crump, because they have been making the rounds and trying to get the word out. And I think one of the ways that you pressure these institutions, including police institutions and legal institutions and state institutions to take, to take action, particularly when it comes to black life, it's not just going to happen naturally. You actually have to push it. And parents, when you're in this really horrific situation, it's easy to kind of freeze and to just sort of stall emotionally. But unfortunately, what you have to do in these situations is you have to lean in and you have to go public. Because what will happen is, as was pointed out in the press conference and in some of the interviews you've seen them do earlier today, you don't say anything. As a black family, often your case will get swept under the rug. We talked about the woman who went on the girls trip with the football moms and then her case just went away. No one talked about it anymore. She just disappeared. Her body was found on the property of one of the women that she was with and just nothing happened. And so we can't allow it. You have to unfortunately, force the system to. To take you seriously and force the system to take seriously the death of your loved one. And you know, there's a reason that that activist Alicia Garza, one of the main creators of the hashtag Black Lives Matter, the reason she and her two sisters, the sisters who created Black Lives Matter, the reason they had to make the hashtag is that in this country, black lives generally don't. Black life is less valued than other lives. And so unfortunately, what black families have had to do is go very, very public in their. Their moment of grief and even within their agony, they have to tell their story very publicly in order to force law enforcement to act. We're also going to talk later in the show about the gentleman who was killed in Houston, Texas. His family has similarly had to go very, very public. ICE has done another killing. And it's horrific. He is a man who was a law abiding man. He was. The only thing that he'd done wrong is he did not have documents, but he had started a business, he had put his kids through college. He had done all the things that would normally cause a normal, sane country to say, oh, we should bring you in and we should try to make you a part of our country. His name is Lorenzo Sarah Salgado Araujo. And you would think that this is somebody that we would say, you know what? This is a good man. Let's try to get him on a path to citizenship. Instead, he was chased down by a random unmarked van, which he, of course, tried to evade because he probably thought he was being carjacked. And now he is deceased. And so that happened. So we're going to talk about that this hour. And then in our second hour, we're going to do something that a lot of you in the chat have said that you really wanted us to do and that I really wanted to do. We've just been looking for the right guests. We have needed to talk about Sudan. This is a genocide, an ongoing, one of the longest genocidal cases in the history of the world. It's been going on for a long time, just as the situation in Gaza and the west bank has been going on for a long time. It didn't just happen on October 23, 2023. People would, in mainstream media would have you believe that suddenly October 7th was the beginning of a thing, but it wasn't. It was, it was the culmination of a thing. And so what we now know is that these stories are long and the story in Sudan is very long. Vanity Fair has two incredible journalists who actually went to Sudan and have gone over and over again. And we're going to tell that story in hour two. But to come back to where we started, you know, the parents of Nolan Xavier Wells, they, they are, are speaking out. They've done a couple of things. So there was a press conference that I listened to earlier today with the National Action Network and Reverend Al Sharpton. And at that press conference, they laid out much of the case that they are making, that essentially law enforcement has to do better and has to do more to try to ensure that justice is done in this case. They've also been doing a round of interviews, obviously. They did an interview on ABC News this morning. And that interview, in that interview, they talked about their son. They talked about this case and all of the issues there. And so that happened this morning as well. And they're making the rounds and doing that. I think it's very important that they tell their story in every venue that they possibly can, because this is the only way to force justice into play. And I do believe, Jason, I do believe our guests are here. I do believe they're here.

[Ben Crump]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[Joy Reid]

Let us now interview. Let us bring on Nolan Xavier Wells, parents Christine and Elmer Wansley join me now, along with attorney who you know very well, our friend Ben Crump. I want to thank you all for doing this. I know you've had a long day, done a lot of interviews, conferences, so I'm truly, truly grateful for you making the time.

[Christine Wansley]

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing his story.

[Jason]

We appreciate it, of course, and I will. I want to start with you, Christine,

[Joy Reid]

because, you know, I am a. I

[Jason]

am a threads girl. And so I actually already knew of your content.

[Joy Reid]

Just didn't connect you to this story. When I saw your post, just I think after or, I mean, on or the next day after July 4th, I

[Jason]

said, oh, this is. This lady is a beauty influencer. This is a lady that's got some followers.

[Joy Reid]

This is a lady that's got enough of a following that this is going to really help. I retweeted, repost. I don't know what you call on threads. And I think we all felt that, you know, you did exactly what a parent, a loved one is supposed to do. You publicized this immediately when that happened.

[Jason]

The question I have lingered, has lingered

[Joy Reid]

in my mind is, did any of the friends that your beautiful son Nolan was with, did any of them reply to your post?

[Christine Wansley]

Replying to the post, I'm not quite sure, but I think it was Wyatt that had reached out saying, like, they were going to go back out to help with the search. We just, you know, we had a large outpouring of support from our community. Previous, one of my classmates from high school, he went out there on his boat, Nolan's former high school football coach. So it was one of those things I was just so laser focused on trying to get information, which is why when I had posted a couple of them, I was like, please just make sure that you're only sending me information. I understand people want to, you know, say that they hate we're going through this, but, you know, it's imperative to kind of make sure we have a line of communication open so where we can start going through the information and figure out what happened. Unfortunately, that was kind of stifled with just the large amount, which I do want to say. Before this happened, I literally would just post very inconsistently. Nolan was the one who would always be like, mom, no, just keep posting. Like, I'm telling you, mom, like, just, you just gotta keep doing it. Like, I know you get tired. Like, and that's just the kind of, I'm about to be 40 and he was hyping me up. So that's the kind of Person that, you know, he was, he's just, again, he was just so kind and loving and just wanted the best. He wanted everybody to win in. It's. It's still unbelievable.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, I'm sure it is. And our, you know, our deepest, deepest, deepest condolences to you as a mom, mom to mom and parent to parent that to the two of you. I. And just my heart breaks for you and. And you are so strong to be able to even have these conversations. So, again, I'm going to thank you a third time.

[Christine Wansley]

Hits me now. It hits me. I'm, you know, that's what I be looking up. That helps the tears go 100%.

[Jason]

And Elmore, I've seen your interviews where

[Joy Reid]

you talked about your bond with Nolan around football. And this was something that actually figures into the sort of strangeness of this case because you said in a previous

[Jason]

interview that this was kind of his

[Joy Reid]

last hurrah to go and hang out and have fun before he had to get serious about practice. So did it surprise you to learn from his friends who that he allegedly chose to not come back with the group?

[Elmore Wansley]

Yes, it baffled me because that's not his character. We drilled into our choice. If you leave together, if you go somewhere together, you come back together. You never break from the group. Strength is always in numbers. And even when he was in elite, when he was in college, he would call us, dad, I'm gonna go down somewhere in Louisiana. Okay.

[Ben Crump]

We'll make sure you guys who are

[Elmore Wansley]

going, me and three other people. Okay, well, you and the same three people need to come back together. Don't, not, don't, don't go off with no girl. You got, you got girls at school. She's not the only girl in the world. It's just, it's just, it's not in his character to do that. We didn't raise money. We didn't raise him that way.

[Joy Reid]

And there are some discrepancies, Ben, that you've pointed out in your press conference earlier, because there are two stories here. One story is that Nolan chose to stay behind with a girl. The other story is that he chose to stay behind with some other friends.

[Jason]

Have you been able to get to

[Joy Reid]

the bottom of that discrepancy?

[Ben Crump]

We have not. And as Mr. Elmore just articulated, Joy, it is troubling to think that if he really did say, I'm going to stay behind, he's an 18 year old kid, would he not want his cell phone with him in his car keys? So they think that's an inconsistency with the contradictions between the statements of the young lady who said. He said, I was going to go back to the boat with the boys. And the boy said no, he told them that he was going to stay with the girl. So it's, it's inconsistencies. And then the video, Joanne Reed, the video where you hear him arguing with somebody, saying, give me my freaking phone. What are you freaking doing? And then it becomes very relevant because the three boys on the boat, they leave with his cell phone and he's washed up later on dead.

[Joy Reid]

It is very strange. Christina, you talked about, you know, Nolan hyping you up when it came to social media. And look, I have, we have adults, they are very tied to their phones and it is strange for him not to have his phone.

[Jason]

But you've also talked about the fact that when you then looked into his

[Joy Reid]

phone, there were messages missing.

[Jason]

Can you tell us about that?

[Christine Wansley]

So when my sister and I especially Snapchat. So that's, you know, of course, the big ad with the kids because of the videos and the pictures that you can create. When we opened it up, we just found it very odd that he had no saved photos, no snaps from, you know, the fourth, which we were still not outside of that 24 hour mark when we went into his phone. So that was just very strange. And my sister was like, you know, Nolan, he's always snapping pics. And even one of my friends, her sister graduated with Nolan and had been present at parties and stuff with Nolan. And she even said like, yeah, no, Nolan is always like, ah, you know, let's make a video type of thing, you know. So just to find that there was absolutely nothing, there was just, it was very interesting. I was just like, yeah, I don't know how something about this doesn't feel right.

[Jason]

And you know, Judge Ashley Cole did

[Joy Reid]

a Facebook post where she explained why she deleted all of her children's social media, including Nolan's friend. And she sort of gave a story that sounded like she was sort of giving her son's version of events. Do you know or has anyone told you who are the other friends that he was supposedly staying with? Do you know their identities and have you heard from Ashley?

[Christine Wansley]

So Ashley did message me, but I'm just, you know, I am a grieving mother and the only thing I want is honesty and transparency. That's it. That's literally all we're asking for. Like, I just, I'm not in a space where I really want to have those types of conversations with people. If you have information, contact my attorneys, give them the information that you have. So in hopes that we can find answers. So I just. I don't think that's a big ask, but I know sometimes that can be hard.

[Jason]

Yeah. I mean, an Elmore, to your knowledge,

[Joy Reid]

do you know the identities of these other friends? Do you know who these other. Apparently, these other boys that your son allegedly stayed with, do you know who they are?

[Elmore Wansley]

I know of them. I've met them. They've come. They've come to the house, and you come in, and. No. No one would be like, dad. This is my dad. So I've. I've met them before, but other than that, I don't. I mean, this is. Like I said before, this. This one hit. This was his last, kind of like, hurrah before he really got down to business. And that's. You know, we just want him to have fun one last time so we. We didn't crowd them.

[Janine DiGiovanni]

Yeah.

[Elmore Wansley]

And it's. It's. It's sad because it's. It's one of those times where you. You question yourself as a parent and be like, well, maybe I should have crowded them. Maybe I should have told them to stay home and do something with us instead of letting him go. But, you know, he worked so hard all summer, and.

[Joy Reid]

You know what, Sir, I'm gonna tell you.

[Jason]

I'm gonna stop you right there.

[Joy Reid]

Do not question yourself. You, obviously, I've watched all of your interviews now and your press conference. You two are obviously wonderful parents, loving parents, good people. Don't question yourself. You don't need to have that on your heart. Obviously, I can see from all the clips and videos that. That Nolan's friends have posted about what a wonderful young man you raised, what a. How beloved he was by his friends. So don't put that on your heart, sir.

[Doug]

You.

[Joy Reid]

You did all that you could. It was clear you absolutely adored your son. I want to give you the last word here because I did promise to get you all out of here and on time. Ben, what is the status of your internal. The investigation that the family is doing? What is the status of that investigation?

[Ben Crump]

Yes, Joe, we're waiting for the autopsy to be completed so we can try to have that part of the puzzle solved. But then we want experts to look into his phone to see if it's possible to retrieve some of the deleted text messages. We think that'll be very important. So we're dotting every eye, crossing every t, looking under every rock to give him a fair investigation, because we have Issues with whether he's going to get that from the Mississippi law enforcement agencies.

[Jason]

And we do too, Ben.

[Joy Reid]

That is one of the reasons we are following this case so closely. Christine and Elmore Wansley, God bless you. We just, you know, we are giving you virtual hugs from all over the world. I mean, people love you. We absolutely adore your son through you. We've gotten to know him through you, through your social media. And my last note here to you, Christine, God bless you, sis, because you've taught other parents how to do this publicly. It's the hardest thing in the world. I've covered so many of these cases and the beautiful thing is you find out the strength, the strength of a parent. And you have shown that, my sister. So I wish you and you wonderful, Elmore. God bless you. Both our hearts are with you.

[Ben Crump]

Enjoy. You know, you all follow one another.

[Janine DiGiovanni]

What happened?

[Jason]

What did you say, Ben?

[Ben Crump]

I said you and Christine follow one another.

[Jason]

Yeah. No, I found out through this that I'm. That I was following you on threads. So I'm one of your fabulous follows.

[Ben Crump]

So now she was talking about you. She loved her some jewelry.

[Christine Wansley]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

Had to do this.

[Jason]

Well, I wish it was under better circumstances.

[Joy Reid]

We'll have to meet under better circumstances. God bless you both and please keep us posted on anything we can do to support you. We're here for you.

[Lindsay Addario]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

God bless. Thank you so much. What a wonderful family. Yes. And I was literally following her on threads. It just randomly. I was following her because she does great posts. When she does post, that's a tough one to do. God bless that family. Let us very quickly take a very quick break to let you all know that we couldn't do the show without our sponsors. And one of our wonderful sponsors are our friends at Hexclad.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

If you want the performance of stainless steel, the versatility of cast iron, and

[Joy Reid]

the convenience of non stick, then you want Hexclad. Yes, indeed. Listen, we have tried a lot of pots and pans. You know, we all inherit the pots and pans from mama and eventually you have to let those stuff because you know that you try to use them and scrape them with metal implements, they get all scratched up. It they're a pan. They no longer like are non stick. They were supposed to be non stick and all of a sudden your eggs are sticking to them. You know how it is. It's time to upgrade, friends. It's time to upgrade. And Hexclad are literally the greatest pots and pans you will ever own. They are the Last pots and pans you ever need to own. They combine the performance of stainless steel with the convenience of non stick. So you do not have to choose. They're easy to clean. You can put them in the dishwasher,

[Jason]

which you can't do with all fans.

[Joy Reid]

You know, you'll destroy them, warp them. Not these. They are fabulous. These are the best pots and pans that you've ever used. Their oven safe up to 900 degrees Fahrenheit, they stay cool. Stainless steel can handle anything. So you're not like grabbing a scouring hot panhandle every time you cook. You name it. Everything about them is absolutely amazing. We love our hexclad pans. I literally, they're all I use. All the other pans are sitting in the, in the, in the stove, in the, in the drawer, like, what about us? I'm like, I don't love you anymore. Hexclad pans are metal utensil safe. You can put a metal implement in them, you name it. So whether you are hosting all summer long or just want to make everyday cooking much easier, this is the upgrade your kitchen deserves. For a limited time, our wonderful the Joy Reacho listeners get 10 off with our exclusive links. Just go to hexclad.com joy that's H E X C-L A D.com joy support our show and check them out at hexclad.com forward/joy and be sure to let them know that we sent you. All right, so let's talk about this industry, this administration. Just one of the many things they've done. They deleted. They deleted the history of George Washington owning slaves at the National Park Service. The National Park Service was essentially ordered to do that. You only do that if you are terrified that people will find out the real history of their country and act on it. Joining me now is somebody who is expert in these matters. Dr. Ibram X. Kendi is the Carter G. Woodson Endowed Chair in History, Director of Howard Institute for Advanced Study and the author of the new book Cane of Ideas the Origins of Our Authoritarian age. Excellent title, Dr. Kendi. Welcome.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Thank you for having me, Joy.

[Jason]

So let's talk about this because this

[Joy Reid]

denialism, I think it actually kind of ties into the story we started with. The devaluation of black life is built into the history. From 1619 on it has carried over because if you can't admit that George Washington owns slaves, you can't admit that black young men are at greater danger of death by police, death by, you know, all sorts of Ills and that their deaths won't be investigated properly.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Exactly. I mean, for the local sheriff apparently to say that there was. That it seems as if there was no foul play suspected when. When the other boys, as we know, brought back his, you know, Nolan's cell phone. You know, anyone looking at that case is going to suspect that something happened and it was likely, you know, foul play. Just like during the enslaving era, you had enslavers denying that slavery was horrific on black people. They were saying it was a positive good for black people. Just like during the Jim Crow era, you had people saying it was perfectly separate, an equal down here. I mean, the denialism is constant, and it's a constant through line, through American history.

[Jason]

Yeah. I mean, just.

[Joy Reid]

If you can put it before, I mean, you know, people have been saying this, this isn't an original thought, but, you know, imagine this photo, but reverse the races of the young men in the picture. Three young black boys go out with one white friend, and the white friend doesn't come back. I mean, as Ben Crump said in his press conference earlier today, how fast would those three black boys have been behind bars being interrogated or accused of murder? They would have to bail out in order to go home. There would be an intense investigation. This would be a national crisis. This would be on morning, noon, and night on every news channel. In this case, it was really social media that lifted this story up and independent media that kind of forced the story into the mainstream, and now they're all covering it. But, I mean, you know, we know what it would look like if it, if it, if the races were reversed.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Indeed. And I think that's one of the challenges of being black, and particularly a black young male in the United States, is that you're always guilty until proven innocent of foul play. But then when you are the victim of foul play.

[Ben Crump]

Right.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Then sheriff's office looks for other people to do their job.

[Ben Crump]

Right.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Which is precisely what's happening in this case.

[Joy Reid]

You have brought back the emancipator, and this means B3, if you have it. I mean, and you. And your, your opening sort of, you know, piece here is about the slavery denial and, you know, talk about why the emancipator has been brought back. What's the history of the emancipator for those who don't know? And what, what, what are you intending to do with its revival?

[Elmore Wansley]

Sure.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Well, if we think about it, two centuries ago in the 1820s, that was a period in which enslavers Racist power brokers pretty much dominated the mainstream media, which at the time were newspapers. They had pretty much taken over and they were using newspapers to spread pro slavery propaganda. And anyone who wanted to tell the truth about slavery was, was being pushed out. Doesn't that sound familiar, Joy, in the way in which this mainstream media has been taken over, in which people who want to tell the truth about racism, tell the truth about what's needed to maintain democracy have been pushed out, in which authoritarians have, have taken over. And so it necessitates the revival of anti slavery newspapers for a new day, in this case an anti racist platform. And I, ironically, in the 1820s is when the first anti slavery newspapers like the Emancipator was born.

[Ben Crump]

Right?

[Joy Reid]

And that, you know, I, I've said, I've said it. You know, folks who've listened to, they know I will repeat I am dear the repeater. Sometimes, you know, it feels like history does proceed in 100 year cycles, right? We're in the 2000s, which feel a lot like the 1920s, just updated with better technology and the Internet and social media. But the 1920s were a period of intense lynching. They were a period of intense rage at black men who went off to World War I and then, you know, and came back saying, hey, I want to be treated just like every other hero that went off to war. I've got my rifle still and I want to, you know, protect my family. Lynchings, you know, increased. Then putting the Confederate statues up. This sort of honoring of the Confederacy,

[Jason]

all of that is back.

[Joy Reid]

Our Department of Defense honors the Confederates who fought against American troops. They honor them more than they honor black troops. There's this anti immigration fervor that mirrors the 1920s insane sort of mania against, you know, Southern European immigrants and Asian immigrants. It's like everything old is new again.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Indeed. And what's striking is literally the children and grandchildren of people who were called aliens, who were called invaders and in the 1920s have now turned around and they're calling people from Latin America or Asia or Africa or even African Americans aliens and invaders. I mean, and it's striking that they could sort of do that turnabout because particularly if you're a person of Irish descent, of Russian descent, of if you're Jewish, if you're of Italian descent and on and on. You were called the invaders a century ago.

[Jason]

And they.

[Joy Reid]

And the thing is, is that it seems to me that the sort of grandchildren of those immigrants, the, you know, the Ron DeSantis whose family were Italian Immigrants who just made it in past getting blocked by the Immigration Law of 1924, or Stephen Miller, whose Jewish immigrant family came from Eastern Europe and, you know, would have been denied under the rules of that he wants to put in place. You know, you go Byron Donalds, who opposes all of the programs that avoided him being in prison right now because he was committing crimes when he was in college. He comes from an immigrant family. He's anti immigrant. It's like this thing where it is. It's almost as if the grandchildren and children of these immigrants are the most anti immigrant, the most racist. Donald Trump's family are immigrants. His mother was a Scottish immigrant, his father was. His father's father was a Bavarian who couldn't go back because he was a draft dodger.

[Jason]

So it's like, is there a historical

[Joy Reid]

kind of explanation for why it is the most recent immigrant families that are the most intensely racist and anti immigrant?

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

It's hard to say. But what I suspect is happening is that, as you know, there's all this rhetoric, this political rhetoric, this propaganda that people, particularly white people, particularly white men, particularly white male citizens, particularly white heterosexual male citizens, are losing out, are losing ground. And those who tend to have less or just sort of arrived, are likely going to be more sensitive to cause that their nation is being taken over. Those who have been trying their whole lives to prove that they are patriots, to prove that they're truly American, because they know their parents and grandparents were told that they were not, are probably going to be the most likely to then turn around and say, I'm an American. Look how I'm denigrating black people.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. And for Latino Americans who have been sort of trying to kind of aspire toward whiteness, if you listen to a lot of the sort of journalism around the. Paula Ramos has done great work on this, that there is this sort of aspirational whiteness that they're trying to claim by being the most American and the most conservative and the most Republican. And now they're being the most intensely targeted when it comes to immigration because they got the numbers. If you want to get rid of a lot of people of color, the biggest, you know, biggest cohort of them are brown people, Latinos. And so they're taking the brunt of it.

[Jason]

Does that create coalition or does it

[Joy Reid]

just increase competition between the various groups who are targeted?

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Well, I think that's sort of the point.

[Ben Crump]

Right.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Because if you are a racist authoritarian who is pushing ideas or pushing interests that only defend a very small group of powerful people, how Are you going to maintain power? Well, by the same old dividing and conquering, by making people believe that those other people who don't look like them or who don't love like them are their enemies who are trying to come and take, you know, from them. And that's what I sort of wrote about in my newest book, you know, chain of Ideas, that people are literally being chained by their own racist ideas, by their own sexist ideas, by their own xenophobic, you know, ideas into supporting authoritarians who are literally taking away their rights in the name of protecting them.

[Jason]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

And let's take a little more. I mean, and I'll give one example of it. So. So Ken Paxton, the guy who was running for United States Senate in Texas, you know, one of the things that the right is doing to try to get, as you said, regular white folks who are, don't have money are never going to get money. They're never going to allow them to get off the mat economically. But they keep them sort of fixated on anti immigrant racism to sort of keep them on side. One of the ways of doing that is to say they're voting. These brown people are illegally voting. Illegal black and brown votes are the reason that Republicans don't win. It's not bad ideas, it's them. And at the same time, Ken Patston apparently has been illegally voting in at least six elections. He's been not using the address where he actually lives. He's been voting from a different address. So he's been violating the law. And every time we come up with a really big ticket voter fraud case,

[Jason]

it's always a Republican.

[Joy Reid]

But they're claiming that it's black and brown people who are committing these crimes and it's such an overt cover up. What do you make of the fact that it works every time?

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

I think it works every time because I think it speaks to the power and the enduring power of racist ideas. And I just don't. We had a so called racial reckoning in 2020 and you would have wished, right, that six years later that the power of racist ideas wouldn't be so pervasive among people in which they could constantly act out of their own self interest. But we've gotten to a point in which people are beyond acting out of their self interest. They're literally clamoring for other people to dominate them. Like come and dominate me, come and control me because I'm only going to be protected by those quote unquote immigrants and black criminals. If you take away my rights, that's it's so. And I think that's what's happening, you

[Jason]

know, in this moment and that.

[Joy Reid]

And I'm glad you wrote a book about it because the reality is, I mean, if you think about the patriot front, they're so determined to be dominated. They're so beta that they're saying we want to basically become anonymous lookalikes with masks of our faces catching heat stroke in the heat. We just want to be dominated. We'll only let our leader have his face shown and then we're going to try to slither into positions at the bank or in the dentist's office behind your back. But we don't even have the courage to demass.

[Doug]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

We're so scared that the public will rebuke us that we're just going to become anonymous drones. And it is crazy. These are people who are smarter than Donald Trump, who are in some cases richer than Donald Trump, these members of Congress. But there's playing Please, please, Daddy, beat me more. They all want to be dominated. They only feel like they can rule on their knees. I've never seen anything like it. It's insane.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

And I think part of it is because even going back to we started talking about slavery, you know, many of these people essentially want to be the billionaire. They want to be the trillionaire. And, and they think that somehow those billionaires and trillionaires care about them because they keep saying they care about them.

[Ben Crump]

Right.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

They think if they only empower those billionaires and trillionaires that they're going to turn around and create avenues for, for them to become powerful. And that's never happened in American history. I mean, you know, working class white men have been dreaming for that since the founding of this nation. It's never happened for them and it's

[Joy Reid]

never going to happen. I think that, you know, and I hope that people send their book. I mean, I don't know if they'd be willing to read it because they still think you're a critical race theorist, my friend. They still don't know the difference between anti racism and critical race theory. So there's challenges of just understanding the

[Jason]

English language with some of these people.

[Joy Reid]

But what will they learn if someone sends this book to one of their MAGA friends? What is it that they will learn?

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Well, actually, I'm hoping that a MAGA friend who reads this book with an open mind will, will realize even, for instance, where the, where the title Chain of Ideas comes from. It comes from this French intellectual in the late 1700s who was talking to who was speaking to the French monarch and was like, you know what an old way for a politician to control people is with iron chains. A much more effective way to control people is with a chain of their own ideas. And so I hope people can realize that the more bigoted we are, the more easily we can be controlled and dominated.

[Joy Reid]

Amen to that. Where can people get The Emancipator?

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

The emancipator.org or the emancipator at the Emancipator, you know, on all social media channels.

[Joy Reid]

Fabulous. Dr. Ibram X Kendi. Come back anytime, my friend. Thank you very much. Thank you for writing this book.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

Of course. Thanks, Joy.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you. And I'll let you all know that you can also get your copy of Ibram Kendi's latest book. You can get the chain of [e-mail] readshow.com youm know, when we have an author on, we always like to give you guys the opportunity to buy their book. And so this is definitely going on my summer reading list. So, yes, definitely worth reading because he's one of the smartest.

[Co-host Jason]

All right, so before you move on, right, you guys was talking about, could you imagine bedcrub? Put this post up, put his ig. And this is exactly what I mean. Now, if this was what this looked like, I mean, do you think these brothers would be even free right now?

[Joy Reid]

They'd be under the jail. They'd be under the jail. Let's just be clear. This is what it is.

[Co-host Jason]

So, you know, we have sympathy.

[Joy Reid]

But if this was the picture, those boys would have been railroaded into prison. They would be behind bars right now, and there would be a national demand. Fox would be opening with this. Fox would do this day and night until those boys were in prison. They would have been already charged with murder. There would have been a. They would. And then any other young black man in that community, they would have been dragging them off the street, throwing their hands behind their back, throwing them down on the street.

[Jason]

Or imagine if you did that same

[Joy Reid]

picture and it was three brown people or any of them was an undocumented immigrant. They would be rousting every brown person in the community. I was in New York as a teenager during the Central Park 5. Good luck walking through the park. Once they decided that all young black teenagers were, quote, unquote, wilding, that meant that it wasn't just the Central Park Five who were thrown into prison accused of a crime they did not commit. No one bothered to, I don't know, take their DNA and see if it was possible that these 14, 15 year old boys raped this woman. They didn't bother to do that. They just literally railroaded them.

[Jason]

So some of them served 13 years

[Joy Reid]

in prison before they were let out. And you know that if this was the picture and this was the actual news story, those three boys would be under the jail. They would be doing gofundmes to try to bail out. They wouldn't even get bail. They would be charged with murder and there would be no questions asked. The state of Mississippi would throw the book not just at them, but any black male they found on the street would be accused of being part of the crime. It would be a complete. They would be the railroading of every young black man anywhere near Gulfport, Mississippi would be in danger of walking the streets. Or if they were Brown, same thing, 1,000%. Trump would be calling for the death penalty. Exactly. Trump would be demanding that there not even be a trial, that those three young men, if that was three black, he would be demanding that they be put to death. And Fox would be amplifying it. Fox would be demanding the death penalty. Right. It's just, it only goes in that one direction. And if you even reverse Jason, the case of the Carmelo Anthony case, imagine that people have been circulating a reverse video of the Carmelo Anthony case. Imagine two 6 foot tall black twins confronted a smaller white track athlete, high school athlete, loomed over him and then jumped him.

[Co-host Jason]

There would be brutes.

[Joy Reid]

They would be brutes, animals. There would literally, the little what's his name, Nicola Fuentes would be saying, this proves that all black people are beasts and animals and should be in the zoo and murdered. There would be lynch mobs. Those cowardly, masked, whatever they call it,

[Co-host Jason]

you know how it goes, would be

[Jason]

marching through every community.

[Joy Reid]

Every black community would have a patriot front march down through the center of their streets, demanding that black people be deported en masse to somewhere on the African continent.

[Co-host Jason]

They get the benefit of the doubt,

[Joy Reid]

led by Trump and Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller would be demanding that every black person be ID tagged like a dog, followed. They shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Jason]

You know, y' all know what would happen. Like this isn't even a question, you know exactly what would happen.

[Joy Reid]

Or if they were undocumented, you know

[Jason]

how this would go down. And there would be no sympathy whatsoever. This is the way we know that

[Joy Reid]

it would go because we are in the nadir. We are back in the 1920s. Yes, black, they would be burning black

[Jason]

towns to the ground because remember, all

[Joy Reid]

it took for them to burn black Wall street was for a young black man who worked as an elevator operator to actually accidentally brush his arm up against a white woman who was in the elevator. That is what caused those men, including the federal government, flying jet fighter jets over Tulsa and burning Tulsa black Wall

[Jason]

street to the ground.

[Joy Reid]

Because at 1, a young black man who I think was 19 or 20 years old, his arm brushed against a white woman in the elevator that he was operating. That's all it took back then for them to burn your town down. This is the people, the same people whose grandchildren say that black people are inherently violent. All it took for them to lynch a young black boy in Florida and

[Jason]

force him in front of his father

[Joy Reid]

to jump off a bridge to his death in front of his dad. You know, Byron, I asked Byron Donalds about this because he said we just needed, we were better off when we had fathers in the home. During Jim Crow. Well, during Jim Crow, in his very state where he represents, they forced a young black teenage boy to jump into the river to his death with his father standing right there. And he had to do that. You know what he did wrong?

[Jason]

He wrote a letter to a young white girl in his class saying, I

[Joy Reid]

wish we could all be friends. My people don't hate your people. We should all be friends for writing that note. Her father became enraged and thought that he is hitting on his white daughter.

[Jason]

And they dragged the boy and his father to a bridge and made the boy jump in front of his dad. So that was the father in the home. This was an intact family and this is the history that they're trying to suppress. They don't want you to know that,

[Joy Reid]

but it happened in Florida.

[Jason]

And these, this is not in like 1800, you know, this was post slavery.

[Joy Reid]

And so we know how it would go.

[Jason]

All right, let's go on to our,

[Joy Reid]

our next topic here. So Mexico is enraged at the United States. During an operation in Houston, a man named Lorenzo Salgado Araujo was fatally shot on Tuesday by ice, ICE described as a targeted enforcement operation. But his family and local officials say not so fast. Here's how Texas local officials reacted to

[Representative Joaquin Castro]

the smarter Lorenzo's last words were, me estan matando. They're killing me. And I want to first express my condolences to the family of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, a man from Houston who had lived in the United States for 35 years, raised his kids, helped them get a college education, was a hard working man, took care of his family. He was killed A few days ago by a ice.

[Representative Sylvia Garcia]

The Salgado family. Life will never be the same. At no fault of theirs. Mr. Salgado was chased by an unmarked vehicles. Before he could identify himself and speak. As a Houstonian, He was shot and killed. I've met with his family today and expressed the entire city's condolences and anger and assured him. That I and the levels of government represented here today and the DA's office would do everything, use all of our resources and our waking hours to pursue an independent and transparent investigation.

[Representative Al Green]

You know, this is. This is a grieving family. It could happen to any of us, especially if we have. You know, I'm weta. They may not stop me, but they probably might stop some of my friends. You know, this is about making sure that civil rights are protected, human rights are protected, constitutional rights are protected in this country because it is today here in our country. I mean, our city, but it could be any other city. And we saw it happening in Minneapolis. We saw it happen in Chicago. We're see, in terms of ICE presence. I'm sorry. So we have learned some lessons. Apparently, ICE has learned nothing. If they really think that a car is going to hurt somebody, I mean, even a kid would tell you, you shoot the tires, you don't shoot. The driver confirmed that Lorenzo Salgado Aroja was not the target of the operation, nor was his brother, who was a passenger in the vehicle. The director said that ICE was searching for an individual with a final removal order when officers believed who officers believe had entered the van and that they had an administrative warrant. And let's be clear, it is an ALJ signed administrative warrant, not an arrest warrant like I have signed before as a judge and not in a restaurant like the kinds that the DA would ask us to sign. And Troy said that he did not know the name of the individual that ICE was targeting and that he could not clearly identify which passenger they were seeking.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

We must have a thorough, complete, transparent investigation before there can be accountability.

[Joy Reid]

There must be such an investigation.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

There ought to be an amen to that.

[Lindsay Addario (photographer)]

Amen.

[Janine DiGiovanni]

We.

[Dr. Ibram X. Kendi]

We must not only have it, we must have a hearing so that the public can see and hear as much evidence as is available, especially body camera footage.

[Joy Reid]

That previous speaker and I apologize for not having that up, is Representative Sylvia Garcia, the congresswoman as well as we are. We saw Congressman Al Green and the

[Jason]

Mexican Foreign Ministry is now preparing legal

[Joy Reid]

action in the United States following the shooting. The President of Mexico, President Claudia Sheinbaum, said the shooting represents a broader pattern of Mistreatment of Mexican migrants. She said the Mexican government plans to pursue legal action beyond the diplomatic complaints that it has already filed with international human rights bodies or, quote. Our objective is to go beyond diplomatic notes. Joining me now to discuss this is Kika Matos, who is. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get your title wrong, my dear.

[Jason]

I am so sorry.

[Doug]

I'm sorry.

[Joy Reid]

Let me go.

[Jason]

Let me get your title. You.

[Joy Reid]

The National Immigration Law center, we were scrambling Kikamatos to try to get the show changed around because we had Ben Crump brought on the parents of Nolan Wells. And so we scrambled a lot of stuff, and I pulled a little bit of information out. So, Kika Matos, thank you so much from the National Immigration Law Center, Mexico filing a formal complaint.

[Jason]

What?

[Joy Reid]

Do you know what they could actually accomplish doing that? I'm glad they're doing it.

[Kika Matos]

I think a couple of things. First, look, they want to signal to the world, into the United States, how serious this is for them, and they want to really elevate the fact that Mexican immigrants are being assaulted, they're being killed, they're being held into detention indefinitely. They're being demonized, and they're being brutalized by this administration. So this is a way for the president to say to the United States government, you're out of control. And we want the rest of the world to know that we are outraged. And it seems like part of the tactic also is to bring the United nations in. So they're going through these UN Human rights channels to start to elevate these sets of issues as fundamental human rights violations and to try to hold the US Accountable using international human rights laws, mechanisms for accountability.

[Jason]

And, you know, Kika, I've been waiting

[Joy Reid]

for someone to do this, and I have been sort of openly signaling and saying on this show, at some point, someone needs to do to us what South Africa did to Israel, because the human rights violations are numerous.

[Jason]

They have already killed two protesters in

[Joy Reid]

Minneapolis, two US Citizens who were simply peacefully protesting against ice. They killed both of them in the street. An extrajudicial murder. No accountability. Now we have a Mexican national. This man had lived in the country for more than 20 years. He had American 35 years. 35 years.

[Jason]

And he had an American family.

[Joy Reid]

Let me let you all listen to a little bit of his family's press conference. Take a listen.

[Representative Joaquin Castro]

I saw a video posted on Facebook that he had been shot. I recognized him immediately. Not from his appearance, but from his voice crying for help as he lay on the street, bleeding out. I am calling for a full investigation into the events that Transpired yesterday. Yesterday July 7th. He did not deserve to die. He did not deserve to be reduced to a headline of Mexican Man Shot and Killed by ice. Had my father seen any emblems on those cars, he would have complied. He would have stopped. He would have not reacted the way he did. Unfortunately, that was not the case. ICE did not present himself to him in an orderly manner, in a professional manner that any law enforcement agency should have.

[Elmore Wansley]

Should.

[Representative Joaquin Castro]

That's the standard to identify yourself.

[Joy Reid]

And, Kika, the video of this that's all over social media shows that Lorenzo Salgaro Araujo, he's in his van, and then a van, unmarked, starts rolling up on him.

[Jason]

He probably thought he was being carjacked.

[Kika Matos]

Yes. So his son guessed his. He surmised that his father thought that they were people trying to rob his construction tools. Because he shared that like many of us, you know, black and brown people keep having these conversations. And I know I had this conversation with my son about what happens if you have an encounter with ISO, the police. Right. We know that we have to do that level of engagement and training Mr. Salgado had taken upon himself to really learn all of the know your rights information that we've been sharing with people about what to do if you have an ICE encounter. This is a man who's been living here for 35 years. He has never had any kind of criminal history. He has three US Citizen children, and he was in the process of trying to get legalization in the United States. Apparently, what he loved doing more than anything else in the world was sitting on his porch after work, patting his dog and listening to music. Why on earth ICE will take it upon itself to be in an unmarked van. Right. And then to come out at some point in time, they blocked him off the rope and come out and start shooting.

[Christine Wansley]

Why.

[Kika Matos]

Why in God's green earth do they think that that is appropriate behavior? That level of violence is appropriate against any human being? He wasn't engaging in threatening behavior. He didn't have a weapon. The whole allegation of ramming the. Because the ICE is alleging, and this is a repeat pattern, they keep saying the same thing every time they shoot people, which is that all the. The cars came at us as a weapon. They were. Let me say that the level of outrage. I'm so apoplectic over this case. They said the same thing that they've said in other cases, which is, oh, he used his van as a weapon and he rammed an ICE car. There were three eyewitnesses in that van. And what did I do? They picked up those eyewitnesses, they shackled their hands and feet, they took them to a detention center, and now they are trying to get them deported.

[Joy Reid]

And that is what Representative Al Green pointed out in his part of the press conference. He said, you are not on my watch going to deport these people because they want to deport the witnesses. In addition to that, there's video, other

[Jason]

people, they saw this happening.

[Joy Reid]

There's video that's circulating on social media that clearly shows the opposite.

[Jason]

And this is what happened with Renee Nicole Good.

[Joy Reid]

They tried to lie about her and say she was ramming the officer with her car, but the video showed that they were lying. And Representative Green as well as Representative

[Jason]

Sylvia Garcia, they're questioning whether this is

[Joy Reid]

just lies because they keep saying this.

[Jason]

Sylvia Garcia made the point that this

[Joy Reid]

is what they always say when they decide they want to shoot someone.

[Jason]

And the thing that was so tragic,

[Joy Reid]

Kika, is the last words. As reported by Representative Joaquin Castro. This man's last words was, they're killing me. They let him bleed out on the street.

[Kika Matos]

And let me say this is not an aberration. Since Trump came into office last January, 21 people have been shot by ICE. Eight of them have been killed. Five of those eight were deaths by shooting. Three of those people who were shot death were US citizens. And there have been 52 deaths in detention. There are now. It's not just these three eyewitnesses who are in ICE detention. They joined 63,000 other people that have been picked up by ICE and are in detention. 52 of these people have died in detention. To say that our government is out of control and that ICE is out of control and that they have no respect for constitutional rights is an understatement.

[Jason]

Yeah, it feels like it violates multiple

[Joy Reid]

constitutional amendments that you can roll up on somebody like a gang banger in an unmarked vehicle. You can do a jump out and then shoot them and say they were trying to kill you. You can bust into people's homes, no warrant, and then just start shooting people. And then if anyone sees you commit

[Jason]

the crime, you just detain them too and deport them. It's the perfect crime because there can be no witnesses because you'll either kill

[Joy Reid]

them or deport them.

[Kika Matos]

And there's a level of complicity that is also astounding. Apparently the FBI is, has stepped into this case and they're doing an investigation with regards to, quote, unquote the assault of a federal officer.

[Joy Reid]

And not only that, I mean, of course they are. And then on top of that, normally, this is the other thing that Representative Garcia said. Normally, in a situation like this, this would be immediately forwarded to the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department. But right now, we don't have a Civil Rights division of the Justice Department because it's in the hands of an ideologue whose only interest is making sure that white Christian conservative men who apply for a job always get it. And other than that, she doesn't do anything.

[Jason]

So we now don't have.

[Joy Reid]

We have no Justice Department, no Civil Rights division.

[Kika Matos]

No. And you know, when I was last on this show, you and I talked about the use of immigration by this administration to bring about authoritarianism. And this is an example of just how far they have gone and how terrible it is that this once robust democracy. Yes, we all have concerns with the US Government, but there was never any doubt in my mind that there was a commitment to the rule of law and to democratic values. And now we look at the Justice Department not as an. An entity that we can rely on to engage in responsible, nonpartisan investigation and to deliver justice, but we are seeing a deeply politicized agency that seems to be doing the bidding of this president who seems to be hell bent on revenge. And so the question for me is, where do we go now? Who do we go to?

[Joy Reid]

I think the answer is in the way we started this segment. Unfortunately, it appears we now have to go to the international legal body bodies. The United nations needs to not just be paying attention to Sudan, which we're going to talk about in our next block, or to Israel and Gaza. Unfortunately, the United nations human rights entities and organizations need to be looking at the US we are now the bad guy that we used to try to oversee.

[Kika Matos]

Yeah. And we no longer export democracy as we used to before. Right. A lot of American diplomacy used to be really premised on the idea that the US Was exporting democracy to the rest of the world. We're not doing that anymore either.

[Joy Reid]

We're exporting violence, and at this point, we're exporting shame. I want to wish the family of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo your deepest condolences. We are so sorry for your loss. And we will keep amplifying his story. Unfortunately, he has added to the list of Alex Preddy and Renee Nicole Goode and the 18 other people who were murdered by ICE. Thank you so much for being here.

[Jason]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

Hika Matos. Unfortunately, we'll have to have you back to probably talk about this again.

[Kika Matos]

Absolutely.

[Joy Reid]

We love having you here.

[Kika Matos]

Thank you. I love being on your show.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you so much. All right, well, welcome to hour two of the Joy Reid show. This is a rough one. And we listen by the time we get to the moment of joy, y' all could be like, thank God if you guys have not hit, like, and subscribe.

[Jason]

This is important stuff.

[Joy Reid]

I mean, it's. Scaring is caring. But sometimes you have to do these

[Jason]

painful stories because you need to know, right?

[Joy Reid]

And you deserve to know what your government is doing in your name. They're paying a lot of money and spending a lot of your money to do all of these things. But, you know, we want to.

[Lindsay Addario]

On a.

[Joy Reid]

On an up note, we want to also make sure that we're doing some empowerment in addition to the scaring and the caring. And this show is brought to you by one of the biggest empowerers of individuals, and they are one of our wonderful sponsors, Strawberry Me. So listen, listen. We all know somebody who is not exactly at their dream career, not exactly doing the thing that they really believe they wanted to do. And honestly, sometimes you look around and you think, well, you know what?

[Jason]

There's got to be a way to

[Joy Reid]

get where I wanted to go. And you look at people who are doing what seems to be their dream, and you're like, well, what am I missing? How am I not getting myself where those people are? Well, look, nobody ever tells you really, that the most successful people, they rarely figure out what they're doing on their own. They literally have mentors and coaches, people in their lives who help them figure out the steps to take and the big decisions to take in order to get where they want to go. Things they really don't necessarily see themselves. So today's sponsor, Strawberry Me, that's what they're all about.

[Jason]

It's like therapy, but for your career.

[Joy Reid]

Now, a lot of us know that we're capable of doing more than we're doing. We just don't know, like, what's the next step to actually get there. And, you know, career coaching is not something that I have really thought about in my life and was. I was a little skeptical of it, but after having somebody really explain to me kind of what it was, and the people who have had this really helped them and help them to succeed, I'm really a believer. You know, what they do is they focus on your particular situation, they ask you specific questions, and they help cut through all the BS and the noise to try to get you where you're going. It starts with getting clear on what you actually want, not what everybody expects you to want. And then you've kind of uncover the blind spots and obstacles that are keeping you stuck and holding you back. And finally you sort of build an actual plan. They don't just talk to you, they help you build an actual place plan instead of just waiting for the opportunity that you dream up to just magically appear. So whether you're trying to land a new job or earn a promotion or just completely rewrite and reinvent your career, Strawberry Me gives you a roadmap and a dedicated coach who's with you every step of the way. If you want to give it a try, scan the QR code on your screen or just head to Strawberry Me slash Joy to get 50% off your first session, which is a very good deal. That's Strawberry Me slash joystrawberry Me. It is like therapy for your career. The Joy Meat show is also brought to you by our friends at Remy. Now listen, if you're trying to get a good night's sleep, one of the things that will keep you from doing it, that whole teeth grinding thing, it's a tough thing to do if you to keep yourselves from doing it. And teeth clenching and grinding actually can give you more stress. It can give you headaches, it can interfere with your sleep. And fixing it generally means making an appointment with your dentist, waiting for the appointment, going to the dentist. That's a whole multi step process. Process that can be long and arduous. But guess what? You don't really have to do that. You can simply trust Remy. And this is who I trust. Remy will protect your teeth using their custom night guards. It's over 355,000Americans who've done it. And they give you these wonderful night guards that are not just FDA cleared and clinically tested at home impression night kit guards. They allow you to do the work to protect protect your teeth from damage from grinding, but also reduce the cost. The cost is a really important thing and the time that you have to wait. You get the same professional quality and control of a night guard from the dentist for 80% less of the cost by taking your own impressions from the convenience of your home. Here's how it works. Remy will save your impressions so that you can enjoy the convenience of the Remy club where they'll ship you a new top and bottom night guard every six months. So after you do your purchase, your impression kit comes straight to your house. They you follow their step by step. Instructions, they're very simple. And then you send your night guard in, they ship you back your custom fit night guard, and then they'll also send you one every six months so that you don't have to worry about it. If you want to protect your teeth with Remy, just use Code Joy to get 55% off your new night guard from now to the end of this month, end of August, with the Remy Club. Subscribe and save. That's 55% off shop r e m I dot com joy. That's shop r e m I dot com Joy. And use the code Joy. So thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this episode. So this hour, we want to do something that again, you guys have really asked us to do a lot of the time. We spend a lot of time talking about what's happening in Gaza and in Lebanon. And a lot of you in the chat have said, well, what about Sudan? Also Congo, which we're going to, we're going to eventually get to that as well once we find a really good correspondent. And the challenge is, is that a lot of mainstream media, they don't, they don't actually pay attention to the African continent and so they don't have correspondence there who can get you the story. So you're sort of stuck with reading. You know, I read a lot of Al Jazeera. You can read that. But getting, like, U.S. coverage can be really challenging. So I have to say Vanity Fair, I want to big them up. Not only is Vanity Fair the magazine that's normally a fashion magazine, what they're normally known for, they do lots of incredible content about fashion and Hollywood and things like that, but when they decide to drill down and dig into issues, they do a great job. They are the folks who have published a ta Nehisi Coates incredible pieces, and they've done a really great piece on Sudan. So I want you to take a look at it. We recorded it the other day. It's a little long, but I want you guys to sit through and take a look at this report that we were able to put together. Well, we put it together based on an interview that we did with the journalist and the photographer who literally got on a flight, flew to Sudan and recorded this story with beautiful, arresting and also horrific photos. That's both a photo essay and a journalistic story. This is some of the most in depth reporting that I have seen on Sudan. It's exquisitely done, it's smart, it's impactful. And we wanted to do this interview. The minute I saw it, I actually read the piece. And once I read it, I was like, we've got to see it. We've got to show it on this show. So, yes, we decided that we really wanted to interview both the writer and also the photographer who put it together. Jason, you'll let me know when it's ready. And let's take a look at that report now.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Between the two main factions of the country's military government, conflict involved the internationally recognized government of Sudan, which is controlled by the Sudanese Armed Forces, otherwise known as the saf, under General Abdel Fattah, against the rival government of Peace and Unity, led by the Rapid Support Forces, a paramilitary group which is peaceful. Commanded by a man called General Hamdetti, Mohammed Hamdan, Dadalo Musa. Smaller armed groups have also taken part on both sides. It's an incredibly complicated conflict. Most notably the Sudan Liberation Movement splinter groups, the Kamazulu Militia and the Dar for Joint Protection Forces. Happen.

[Jason]

Here's audio.

[Joy Reid]

Okay.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Joy Reid]

We are apparently having an audio issue. I can hear the audio on my end, but you guys are saying you could not hear it, so I'm not sure why the sound isn't showing. Jason, let me know if you want to try to reel it up again and see if we can get the sound. All right, let's give it another shot. Oh, okay. Well, all right. Well, let me know when you're ready. Sorry about that, guys. We have a little bit of a technical difficulty, so we're going to figure out when we can get this audio up so you guys can see it. And while I am letting you guys know that, one of the things that we learn in this story is that the forces behind the Sudan crisis are not just in Sudan. There are also international villains that are involved. And as per usual, Sudan is a victim of a thing that I think is probably the biggest curse of any country, and that is resources.

[Representative Sylvia Garcia]

Oh.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, okay. Hold on. All right, so, yes. So we're. We're trying to tee this up. Hopefully, we'll be able to tee it up. Let's find out. Let's find out. Okay. All right. Just let me know when you got it. But, yeah, so one of the things that we definitely learned in this reporting from Vanity Fair is that one of the reasons that Sudan is in this crisis is because they possess things like gold, things like a. An actual, like, substance that's used. Used to make candies and other treats. But because they have these resources under their soil, they, as per usual, like most countries in the global south who have resources under their soil, they become victimized by more powerful countries who want the resources cheap. They want access to them. They don't necessarily want to empower the people in the country. They want to empower themselves economically at the expense of the people of those countries. And Sudan, unfortunately, is one of those countries. And so Vanity Fair taking the chance, this is a fashion magazine, as I said, to go out and really dig, drill down into this story, I think is really, really important. All right, Jason, are we ready to try it again? All right, let's give it a shot. So we need to talk about Sudan. Since April of 2023, there has been a civil war in Sudan between the two main factions of the country's military government. The conflict involves the internationally recognized government of Sudan which is controlled by the Sudanese Armed Forces, otherwise known as the saf, under General Abdel Fattah Al Buran, against the rival Government of Peace and Unity, led by the Rapid Support Forces, a paramilitary group which is commanded by a man called General Hamdetti Mohammed Hamdan Dagalo Musa. Smaller armed groups have also taken part on both sides. It's an incredibly complicated conflict, most notably the Sudan Liberation Movement splinter groups, the Tamazulu Militia and the Darfur Joint Protection Forces.

[Lindsay Addario]

New satellite imagery is painting a grim picture of what may have happened in Saddam this week. Troops from Sudan's paramilitary Rapid Support Forces, the rsf, gained control of the besieged city of Al Fasha, seizing it amid a months long and deadly struggle for territory that has led to an alleged genocide. In this report from Yale's Humanitarian Research Lab, the lab notes numerous clusters as being consistent with the size of bodies that were not visible in prior imagery.

[Joy Reid]

I've been a war crimes investigator for 26 years. I have been monitoring this conflict in this siege in al Fasher for 18 months. What we are seeing is a mass killing of genocidal scale that we assess at the Yale School of Public Health Humanitarian Research Lab with high confidence is occurring at probably the fastest scale of killing I've ever seen in my career.

[Lindsay Addario]

These images corroborate reports from on the ground testimonies obtained by CNN that many civilians were killed by the RSF as they took the city. Light colored clusters and reddish discoloration on the ground can be seen around a hospital and other buildings. The report suggests these may be consistent with human bodies and blood in some cases. Experts say gun mounted pickup trucks consistent with the RSF vehicles are also observed near the bodies. The report reflects mounting evidence pointing towards possible war crimes committed by the RSF in what has become one of the World's worst humanitarian crises.

[Joy Reid]

It's a complicated and deadly conflict which could in many ways be categorized as a genocide. Yet you rarely hear about this conflict in Western media. Well, Vanity Fair recently dove into the conflict. The peace running in their June issue starts this way. Quote, the agony of Sudan runs deep. Its history is crisscrossed with blood. Africa's third largest country, haunted by endless cycles of violence and war and famine,

[Jason]

has survived two previous civil wars.

[Joy Reid]

And there was a time when the world paid attention. The soaring death tolls and the suffering of the displaced once garnered an international outcry and claimed the sympathies of celebrities and activists. In the late 2000s, actors such as George Clooney, Brad Pitt, and Don Cheadle drew attention to Darfur's genocide on the pages of this magazine. But today, overshadowed by conflict in the Middle east and Ukraine, the world has averted its gaze from Sudan. The latest bout of international military struggle, which started in 2023, fracturing along possible every possible fault line, religious, ethnic, political, tribal and international, has created what the United nations is calling the world's worst humanitarian crisis. And joining me now are the journalists behind this story, Janine DiGiovanni, and the photographer who took the amazing images in that story, Lindsay Addario. Thank you both for being here.

[Janine DiGiovanni]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

So, Jeanine, I want to start with you because in your piece, you talk about what is described by your piece as an atrocities laboratory on the ground and a conflict that has all the hallmarks of genocide. Talk a little bit about what's happening on the ground that you as a journalist witnessed in Sudan.

[Janine DiGiovanni]

Yeah. So Tom Fletcher, the UN Humanitarian support primo, said that this is the world's worst, most catastrophic humanitarian crisis, and it really is absolutely horrific. There is mass sexual violence of women, also of men, but mainly of women. There is starvation used as a tool of war. So in cities that are poised to fall, what the RSF and the government forces, the essay have also commit atrocity crimes. They will first encircle a city and they will starve it to death, so not allow aid to get in or out. And then they will begin to attack with relentless drone strikes. Now, drones, which are increasingly the weapon du jour of war, are incredibly cruel because we don't have much ethics policy behind them. But equally, it's someone sitting in a pickup truck playing a video game, shooting a drone, which will then basically wipe out an entire village. So the testimonies that people who escaped from these cities, from these towns, from these villages, it's heartbreaking. It's basically being starved, it's of women being raped. In one testimony that I took, a woman was desperately trying to protect her 10 year old niece. They took this woman away, they raped her continuously. This is gang rape, right? So it's like four or five men at a time. She described them as teenagers, so they're young guys that have been recruited. But her real fear was for her 10 year old niece to try to protect her. But they took the niece away and they raped her for a very long time. She sustained hideous internal injuries and later died from it. In one case I interviewed a woman who was pregnant when she was raped. There were other stories of fetuses being cut out of pregnant women and thrown into the fire. There is stories of torture, horrific torture, people being hung upside down, lashed. I've worked for 35 years in war zones. My work is reporting atrocity crimes. And these were absolutely some of the worst.

[Joy Reid]

And who are the they who are primarily responsible for this violence? Is it the government backed forces or is it the opposition forces?

[Janine DiGiovanni]

Both, both. I mean, we could lay more blame on one side, which would be the rsf, who are backed of course by the UAE government of the UAE and other, other governments. But the saf, the government troops as well are equally guilty of atrocity crimes of a wide range and both sides are guilty of using drones with abandon. So I mean, the real, a lot of the injuries that were coming out were people who were hit, hit by drones. One woman told me that her husband went to the market to buy food and there was a drone strike and people brought him, what remained of him back to her in a bag. There's also a woman whose children were, she had 10 children and basically a drone hit. And when that happens, everyone scatters. Right? So she lost half of her children and she was in the refugee camp on the border where Lindsey and I were working and she didn't know where her kids were. You know, were they. And they were under 10, many of them, you know, where are they? Were they captured by one of the government forces? Were they forced to be child soldiers? This is another hallmark of this war, child soldiers, which I worked in Africa for a long time. And you know, it is one of the cruelest things to take children, indoctrinate them into this kind of vicious warfare and then basically make them commit crimes so that they can never then go home again or go back to their villages or go back to their lives before. So it's a way. The war in Sudan has basically been a destruction of the society, like a chipping away of every level of the society, whether it's health care, whether it's doctors, journalists, women. It's really a war on women as well. Doctors Without Borders put out a horrific report while we were there called Something I Want To Tell youl. And it's about the sexual violence there, which is just off the radar. So really, a truly. All wars are atrocious. This is a really, really bad one, you know.

[Joy Reid]

And to that point, Lindsay, your photographs are very arresting. They're tragic, and they're very much focused on the women who are the victims of this conflict. Talk a little bit about what we're seeing as we look at these women in Sudan. Were you able to get their stories, talk about these images that are in this piece?

[Lindsay Addario (photographer)]

Yeah, I mean, I think Janine covered a lot of it. What we're trying. What I'm trying to do as a photographer is to put a human face on this conflict. So we often hear a lot of statistics. We hear about, you know, rape as

[Joy Reid]

a weapon of war.

[Lindsay Addario (photographer)]

We hear about forced starvation or imminent famine. We hear about all of the toll of war. And so my job is to try to humanize it. And so Jeanine talked about the woman whose niece was taken. Her name is Zakia. We have a photo of her which I believe you'll be showing. And she talked about the fact that she was gang raped and she was raped for hours by three to four different men. But her concern was not herself. Her concern was her niece. And that just speaks volumes about sort of the ubiquity of rape going on in Sudan. I've been working in Sudan for. Since 2004, actually, where I covered the first iteration of the war in Sudan. And I covered that for six straight years. And to go back again and to photograph the same toll on the same people. I mean, some of the people that I have met and photographed over the last few years covering this war once again have been displaced three times. Once 20 years ago, and then they finally made a home. They've been displaced twice again since then. So it's really extraordinary the fact that this war is just still goes on and it's always the civilians paying this price.

[Jason]

And can I stay with you for

[Joy Reid]

one moment, Lindsey, on this? Because, you know, we've done a lot of coverage on this show of what's happened in Gaza, and one of the challenges there is just getting access, journalists being able to freely move about among the people in order to document the atrocities there. You talk about, you know, you said you've been covering this conflict since 2004, which is in and of itself horrific that it's been going on this long. What kind of restrictions on access, if any, did you face in being able to get these images out of Sudan?

[Lindsay Addario (photographer)]

Absolute restrictions on both sides. For example, you know, I went several times last year and just getting into Khartoum and Omderman last year took several months for a visa and then we had to try to get to the Darfur angle because that's controlled by the rsf, the rapid support forces and you have to get permission from them, which is, you know, going to Chad, the neighboring country, documenting the thousands of people fleeing daily at that point point and then trying to get access into Darfur and then going to the Nuba Mountains and trying to get access from that side because it took four different trips to try to document that story. And then this year again Janine and I tried for months to try to get a visa into Khartoum to go to the SAF area, the government controlled area. And ultimately they denied us and they denied us and the RSF also denied us. And so we went to South Sudan and we were lucky to get all of the fresh testimonies of people coming out. But the reality is neither side wants journalists in there because they're both committing crimes. And you know, we've seen this as a pattern, we see this as a pattern that governments who are committing crime against crimes against civilians, they just shut out journalists. It's the tactic used in Gaza. It's being used. Iran is not letting any Americans in. Sudan is giving journalists a very hard time. And it's just, it's, you know, to me it's a real tragedy because journalists are a voice of the people and we are there to provide testimony, we are there to provide documentation of war crimes and of things happening. And when you shut out journalists it gives complete impunity to the people in power. Photograph I was working in the camps. This is in Shemody camp near Rank, which is at the border between South Sudan and Sudan. And there was a swarm of people, thousands of people sort of desperately trying to get into this, across this fence and just waiting. And it was about 100 degrees. And so I got out of the car and I went to the UN and they were doing a distribution for 120 families that obviously couldn't feed the thousands who were outside of the fence. And I said why don't you have more food for them? Why don't you have more non food items, anything for them. And they said because of the USAID cuts, because so many governments in Europe have redirected their humanitarian funds for defense, they simply don't have the money anymore to feed them. And so, you know, how do you explain that to the women and children who are starving outside of the gate, looking sort of wistfully and sort of desperately at the bags of food being handed to so few? And the irony in this situation is they said, well, we've chosen the 120 most vulnerable people. And outside of the fence, I ran into one of the women that Jeanine and I had interviewed the day before who had been raped while pregnant, on the run, and she was not on the list. So what does it take to be vulnerable in a war like the one unfolding in Sudan when if you're a victim of sexual violence, you've been displaced from your home, your home has been destroyed, you're living as a refugee in a neighboring country, yet you're still not vulnerable. This is at Pamir Camp. Jeanine and I went to Yida. We where fresh refugees are arriving every single day through the Nuba Mountains. They've made weeks long journey through extremely traumatic scenes. And when they arrive at the border, they're taken from a transit camp to this location, premier camp, before they're sort of distributed around the area in sort of semi permanent homes. And this is one of the first scenes after they've just arrived in this camp. This is also. They've fled from West Cordovan, also have walked for weeks. This is the Falata group, It's a certain tribe in Sudan. And they've arrived here and they're having their first hot meal. And this is malnutrition. I shot this photograph last year in Janaena, which is in West Darfur. And it was a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders. And there was a ward within that where there were complicated cases of malnutrition. Often with malnutrition, of course, your immunity breaks down and then you're exposed to so many other things. And so this is a woman and her malnourished child. And this is in outside of Shemody. It's a small settlement where Doctors Without Borders was doing a screening for malnourished and sick children who have just arrived. And so this is a new arrival family. They've come from the other side of the border in Sudan about six months ago, and they're now living as refugees in South Sudan. And their children are malnourished.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, indeed. Absolutely. Thank you for saying that so eloquently. I mean, Janine, the other piece of your story that I think is fascinating and we need to unpack is who are the outside forces outside of Sudan? If this was just an internal civil war, it would be bad enough. But it appears just from your reporting and your sort of detailed reporting, that this is a conflict that's being sown from outside Sudan as well. You mentioned uae. What countries outside of Sudan are keeping this war going and why?

[Janine DiGiovanni]

Well, Sudan is pivotal in the region. It's one of the largest countries in Africa. It has vast resources. It's a gateway in a sense to the Red Sea and that area. And it also. There's a fear that it could. The government, while it's not an Islamic government, Islamist government, it could be. There's also gold resources, vast gold resources, and gum arabic, which is this substance which you wouldn't know about, but is basically in everything from M&MS. To most products. So because of these commodities, the war is being fueled by outside countries. Now, Proxy wars are nothing new. We saw Yemen being ripped to pieces by it, the civil war in Syria, especially in the Middle east, where the region is so volatile right now. So Sudan sits on the cusp, in a sense, between it's not the Middle east, it is Africa. But it's in a very strategic position. The uae, who of course want to be the biggest players in the region, are basically shipping, although they have, I have to reiterate this, they have denied it consistently and they even sit on the group that's negotiating the end of the war, the quintet. But we know because it has been documented, there's been photographs of plane loads of gold taken from Sudan and shipped to the enormous. If you've ever been to Dubai, the Dubai Gold Souk, Egypt, equally Turkey in some way, and even Russia. I'm the director of a war crime unit called Reckoning Project, and our work is largely in Ukraine, but we track Putin's activities in other countries and that, of course, he was hugely involved in Syria, Chechnya, Georgia, so forth and so on. Well, the Wagner group play a big role. Mercenaries within Sudan. They've now been rebranded as the Afrika Korps, as well as Colombian mercenaries. So it's become much more of an international conflict rather than just when you talk to some activists, they will say, you know, this isn't a civil war. What it is is it's an anti democratic war. Because in 2023, when they rose up and they became pretty close to having a democratic transitional government, it was then violently put down the coup d' Etat. And then the wars began. The two generals basically with so little concern for their own people, but for their own power. And this is above all, a war of greed and power and corruption. And the civilians come absolutely at the bottom. And I want to go back to what Lindsay was talking about, the need to bear witness. So Gaza, and it's absolutely horrific that the Israelis won't let us into Gaza. I've worked there since 1990. It was always difficult to get into Gaza, but they let you in because they're a democratic country, right? So whenever a government doesn't let you in somewhere, you know, truly bad things are happening. And in Sudan right now, the battlefield shifting is basically on the back of village life, civilian life. Last week, something really extraordinary happened, and it was that the UN Human Rights Council called an emergency meeting about El Obeid, a city poised to fall to RSF forces. Now, it's strategically important. It was a gateway or route to Khartoum, and the RSF desperately wanted it. But what we know now, as opposed to when I first started doing this work, when we didn't have satellite imagery, when, you know, the genocide in Rwanda, which I covered in 1994, there was no satellite imagery. Srebrenica, 1995, the massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys. There was some State Department satellite imagery, but it was only available to government officials. We now have satellite imagery of everything on the ground. We had it for Al Fasher, which fell in October 2025. And activists and people like me, human rights investigators, briefed government officials in both the British government and the US Government. They knew very well, well what would happen if the RSF got inside Al Fashr. And of course, it did happen. The very worst thing happened, a slaughter. And we still don't know how many people are dead because people are buried under rubble and they haven't been able to count the bodies. The same thing was about to happen in El Obeid last week. And the Human Rights Council, vocal, vocal Turk, who is the head of IT basically, who's usually quite timid in his language, said, this is a red alert, and every single phone of every single world leader should be ringing off the hook right now. So my point is, when we want to prevent wars, we can. But Sudan is an inconvenient war. It's inconvenient because it exposes our very powerful allies. And it also is Africa. And let's face it, you know, how much does Africa get on the headlines? You know, once in a while you see a New York Times piece or A Washington Post piece. But it took, you know, the Rwandan genocide started in April. I would say it took until about June for, for the world press to arrive because it just. There are wars that count. Ukraine, for instance, because it's Europe and there are wars that don't count. And nothing has exposed that more to me than Gaza and Sudan and there are of course countless others throughout Africa, throughout the world. But it's really interesting what journalists choose to cover, what their editors let them cover and what world leaders choose to focus on.

[Joy Reid]

Amen to that.

[Lindsay Addario (photographer)]

To get in, I mean, and where we can actually cover. I mean, I think you're absolutely right. Your point is spot on. But I think also you do have to account for the places where we can actually get in. And that's a real problem.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. I'm going to give you the last word on this, Lindsey, because you know, I think normally what we might expect expect is that the images that you, those beautiful, arresting, horrifying images that you were able to produce would turn up at the UN and Janine mentioned it, the UN which sends out alerts but doesn't seem to have much ability to change anything. I could say the same about Democratic Republic of Congo and the child labor that's being exploited there. Nothing. Have your images and Jeanine's report reporting turned up at the un Is anything happening to change that?

[Lindsay Addario (photographer)]

I mean if they did turn up at the UN or what just to reiterate the question, if they showed up at the un would they make a difference? Yeah, I mean I would hope so. That's why I'm a photographer. I mean the reason why I spent, I've spent the last 25 years covering war and particularly in place places that are under covered and where there is not a massive press corps is just to make a difference and to get people in positions of power to pay attention, to hold leaders accountable and to stop wars and to stop the trauma, to stop the devastation and the killing and the rape of women and men, you know, and I think it's ultimately up to the people in power to actually do something with the information that Janine and I give them and other journalists around the world give them. And so I would hope that after years of coverage that I, you know, some of these images do make a difference and otherwise I wouldn't do it.

[Joy Reid]

Amen. Lindsey Addario and Jeanine DiGiovanni, thank you for the work that you've done to force us to look into the eyes of the mainly women, but women and men of Sudan. It's a story that I believe needs much more coverage and just feel very, very, very grateful to the two of you for doing this work. Please feel free to come back as often as you'd like to publicize the work that you're doing. Thank you so much.

[Lindsay Addario (photographer)]

Thank you.

[Jason]

Thank you.

[Janine DiGiovanni]

Thank you for having us.

[Joy Reid]

So thank you so much to Lindsay and Janine and also to Vanity Fair. I reached out to their editors immediately upon reading this really arresting peace and apologies of it. It was a very tough listen. We should have done a warning in advance, but we will definitely put a warning up. We're going to put this report on its own as a separate post if people want to share it and share that around because really people are just really not covering Sudan and we're not getting that information. Just to give you guys some context around this, the official death toll since 2023 in the Sudanese civil war, war, which is still called a civil war, even though, as you heard from Lindsay, this is a civil war that's being fomented from outside, from people who want the gold and the gum arabic. That's everything from chewing gum to M&M's to cosmetics that are made with this gum arabic that you might have heard of. But people are literally killing Sudanese people to get it. And gold that is going right to the United Arab Emirates, the same sort of Gulf nations that are paying off Donald Trump. So there's a lot of that sort of information there as well. But the official death toll, if you go from the center for Strategic and International Studies, is an estimate of between 150,000 and 400,000 people that have died in this conflict since 2023. We have a map we're going to put up just so you guys get an idea. Sudan is the light color country right there. It's right across the from Saudi Arabia. It sits right below Egypt. If you go in your Bible, what Sudan was in your Bible was the land of Kush. And you will recall that Moses at one point married a kushite woman. That is what Sudan of today is in the biblical sense was the land of Kush. So it's a biblical land that's between Egypt and Ethiopia, and it's right across from Saudi Arabia. So it's one of the largest countries. I think it's the second physically or third largest country on the African continent, one of the poorest. But their curse is that they have incredible natural resources, including lots and lots of gold, which is the thing that also destroyed the Congo because it's got lots and Lots of rubber and gold. For them. It's gum arabic and gold that are cursing them to constant civil war. War paid for, funded and fomented from outside the country, with sellouts basically in the country who are willing to fight each other. And there are Arabic forces versus non Arabic. It's a whole black versus Arabic. It's a mess. It's a proxy war. And again, you will note that you heard Lindsay, that you heard Lindsay say, actually Janine say, no, it was Lindsay who said USAID disappearing because of Elon Musk and Doge is part of why people are starving there and part of why we're not having an impact. Because you'll recall that over the last year, the only refugees allowed into the United States are white South Africans. We're not even allowing refugees from that country to come to this country. So we're going to keep following all of these global stories and we are going to follow this one as well. As well as we're looking for great correspondents who are also looking into what's happening in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Because the reality is our bad international policy is not just limited to hurting people here in this country. It's hurting people all over the world. And when we withdraw as a country from things like usaid, we become the bad guy. And best believe that Donald Trump's little coins are being fed by the same people who are feeding this war. So much thanks to Vanity Fair for doing that. Really quick, before we get to our, we need a moment of joy, but I have a couple other stories I just want to hit before we get there. Petty, petty ass Donald Trump, the guy who basically flew back from Turkey not on his private Gulf provided plane that was provided him by Cutter, one of the other Gulf countries that's getting bombed by Iran. By the way, we're back at war with Iran. The word bombing Iran again. Donald Trump putting out these, these war recruitment videos that are showing up in your movie theater. You'll probably see them if you go to try to go see a movie over the weekend. We're going to try to go see some movies here as well. You're probably going to see this 92nd ad for the Department of War. I'm trying to recruit young broke Americans to go join the military. Do not respond to those ads because if you join the military, you're going to be in the latest forever war. Iran has warned the US don't try to come for Carg Island. They have put out a warning. Do not try to invade Car island because Israel allegedly Told Donald Trump this is the Wall Street Journal report, told him that Iran tried to kill him again. Another assassination attempt story that a lot of people believe is a lie, that Israel is saying that so that Donald Trump will not withdraw from this apparently new forever war against Iran. It worked. As soon as he got word of that, the bombing started again. So we're back in a hot war with Iran while they're recruiting your sons. And I'm not talking with that to African Americans. I'm talking now to my spicy whites. They don't want our sons. They don't want brown sons. They want your sons. So if you are a white American, know that those ads are directed at you. They want your sons to join the military because they think you're the only ones who are worthy of being in the military. And they want your sons to go die in the Middle East. That is the plan. And so please resist the temptation and including people of color, have your children resist. Because if you join up, they're trying to recruit bodies to send them over there. They want you to go fight in Iran because they apparently are in a hot war again because Donald Trump got tricked again by Bibi Netanyahu who claims that they're trying to kill him. Meanwhile, our proxy friends in UAE are continuing this genocide of nearly 400,000 people. At the top end, I will note just for context, the number of people killed in the Gaza genocide are a minimum of 71,000 Palestinians and a top number of up to 170,000 injured. So at least 71,000 dead and over 170,000 injured in Gaza. Just so you have the numerical context. So these genocides that are taking place both on the African continent and in Gaza and now in Lebanon, where we don't even have a full count of that yet, these are genocides in the hundreds of thousands of people that are being wiped off the face of the earth so that a handful of billionaires can become trillionaires. Let's just be very clear. I will also note that in this country, the same AI billionaires who are destroying the world so that they could have private islands where they live tax free, and they're looking to take Albania or take all these other countries to live in their little tax havens, those people are now also coming for Native American land. They've now decided that they had their little BVIs on Native American lands.

[Jason]

Here's some good news.

[Joy Reid]

California, speaking of Native American land, is about to return 136 acres of blue beach to tribal stewardship. So it's returning 136 acres of land to tribal indigenous people in California. It's part of a broader effort to restore tribal lands and partnerships. The 183, 136 acres of coastal land will return to Native American stewardship, but the public will still be able to access it. But instead of being administered by the federal government or by the state of California, it'll be administered by these tribes. So that's a little bit of good news. Some Native American tribes getting their land back. On the downside now, Donald Trump has posted on social media that he shan't be signing the bipartisan. One of the few pieces of bipartisan legislation that's passed in recent years is this housing bill that's supposed to try to ease the cost of housing in the United States. Trump, who's being a little petty. Little petty. Betty is saying that she's not signing it. He's mad because Republicans can't get the SAVE act through the Save America Act. So if they can't interfere with the election, he's so desperate to ensure that you cannot vote to replace the Republican Congress with a Congress that will actually hold hearings and hold him accountable and maybe stop the money train from running through him and his family's bank accounts. They're afraid that the money train will stop. So he really wants to hold on to the the House and the Senate. And so he has said he will not sign the housing bill that was passed by Congress because they won't get the Save America act through, which would allow federal government to confiscate the voter rolls in your community. But here's the fun thing about the Constitution, Donald. That bill's going to become law anyway. Baby, it's going to become law anyway. Okay, It'll be law by tomorrow because it's been 10 days. And you know what happens after 10 days if you don't sign a law, Donald, it becomes law without your signature. So you either have to sign it or veto it. And you only have 10 days to make that decision. Baby, it's been 10 days. So it's going to become law without your help, it might have already been.

[Jason]

All right, it passed.

[Joy Reid]

Let me see. It was presented on June 29th. So 10 day clock began ticking on June 30th.

[Jason]

Today is July 10th. Okay, today's day, 10th.

[Joy Reid]

Tomorrow it'll be law. By tomorrow morning, it'll be law.

[Jason]

Congratulations. If you live in public housing or

[Joy Reid]

if you're, if that housing bill will help you. It's been 10 days. Today's the 10th this is 10 days in. It was passed on June 29th. The 10 day clock began ticking on July 10th. So tomorrow, congratulations, Congress, you passed a thing. You finally passed a thing. Congress, you finally did something right.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

Congratulations. Another piece of news. Graham Platner has finally actually dropped out. Now, I predicted our youngest son asked when he thought that I was going to, when he was going to drop out. I had said by Friday. Because normally what you do is if you're going to make a negative announcement, that's not helpful to you. You usually do them on a Friday. It's like the Friday they call the Friday news dump. So, yes, the Friday news dump has happened. Not much of a news dump. Everyone was expecting him to do it. So the, the Democratic Party in Maine only has until Monday to pick someone else. So they have to pick a replacement for Graham Platner. Now, allegedly, what they're going to do is they're going to do like a mini convention. They're going to do a little mini convention. And that is how they're saying they're going to pick the replacement. Now on Monday, I'm going to have more to say about the Republican Party crowing about this because I, I got to tell you, you know who shouldn't

[Jason]

be talking about this and shouldn't be excited about what's happened to Grant Platner is Republicans.

[Joy Reid]

Because between your two supreme, you know, two nights, two out of nine of the members of the Supreme Court and

[Jason]

two out of your six.

[Joy Reid]

So one in three Republican nominated, conservative Republican Supreme Court justices are sex pests. Two out of six, that's one third of the men who are Republicans on the United States Supreme Court have credible accusations of rape or sexual assault or sexual harassment against them. That would be Brett Kavanaugh and Clarence Thomas. So you, you, you all voted for them, including Susan Collins, who voted for Brett Kavanaugh to be confirmed. She'd been in there long enough. She probably voted for Clarence Thomas too. So don't crow about that because you

[Jason]

two, that's a third of your Supreme

[Joy Reid]

Court justices are adjudicated or alleged, I shouldn't say adjudicate. They're alleged sex past. Your president is an adjudicated sex pest and also a defamer. A jury in New York. And this has gone now all the way up through federal courts. Donald Trump is now required to pay Eugene Carroll at least her 5 million and hopefully soon her $86 million. Because a jury of your peers, Donald, in New York, found that you grabbed her by the thing that you said you could grab in that infamous video that you did with Billy Bush when you were behind the scenes at Access Hollywood, you said you could grab women by the P U S S Y and you did that. And you sexually abused Eugene Carroll and that's what a jury found. And you owe her 5 million for assault, abuse, sexual abuse and also defamation. And then she won a second suit because you defamed her again. And so you owe her 86 million. And according to a federal judge, you have to pay her. There are also 23 other women who have accused you of sex pest behavior from grabbing on them in a on an airline flight. Grabbing on them. A reporter who came to your home when Melania was in the next room and she was trying to do a story and you, she alleges you tried to stick your tongue down her mouth. You said while you were Donald Trump on the Howard Stern show that you would walk in on naked or half naked teenage models that Ms. Teen USA I could go on. You've also got multiple members of Congress and the former governor of Missouri, I believe, Eric Greitens, who've been accused of punching women, beating them, throwing hot water on them. It's just not a good look Republicans,

[Jason]

not to mention your secretary of defense,

[Joy Reid]

your secretary of defense paid a woman a very hefty settlement to skle out of accusations that of also sexual abuse. And he claims that he didn't do it. Donald Trump denies it. All these people deny the charges. I will note that each of the people I'm mentioning deny the charges against him. All of them deny, including Pete Hega. But Pete Hegseth did pay this woman money to go away. Just putting it out there. So it's so.

[Jason]

So who should not be talking about Graham Platner is y' all Republicans? If I were you, I would just

[Joy Reid]

say nothing about grandpa. Just leave it alone. Leave it alone. Let me find out the name of the guy who threw hot water on his wife. And so that is a problem for Republicans. And let me find it gonna show up because he also also the person who was accused of throwing hot water and she is the daughter of a his name is Max Miller. His name is Congressman Max Miller of Ohio. And the woman that he allegedly threw the hot water on, his wife is the daughter of Bernie Moreno, who is the senator from Ohio. So her name is Emily Moreno. So Max Miller was accused of that. Then he sued his now soon to be ex wife because they were in a divorce of defamation for saying that. But then he released to the New York Post a request Recording of a phone call that they had in which he admitted he threw the water on her, but said he didn't mean to hurt her by throwing the water. She's now also accused him of physically abusing her and emotionally abusing her. And then you've got Eric Greitens, who was also accused of physically assaulting his wife and his children. And he was going to run for senator, but instead he from Missouri. He's a former governor of Missouri. He withdrew as a Senate candidate because of the accusations of his soon to be ex wife that he literally physically abused her. So there's so much physical abuse and sexual abuse sort of lingering over the, the debt, Republican Party, not to mention what happened. Jason, do you say them? Oh, let's not even go into Matt Gaetz, who was accused of sexually trafficking a teenager. And he was going to be y' all were going to make him attorney general.

[Jason]

Let's just be y' all were going to make him attorney general had he

[Joy Reid]

not withdrawn his own nomination because there was going to be an ethics investigation of him for that because his best friend actually went to prison for having sexual relations with a 17 year old girl. And then let's not even get into the Epstein files.

[Elmore Wansley]

Oh, no.

[Joy Reid]

Or let's get into the Epstein files.

[Jason]

The Epstein files alone. Your president, your favorite president of all

[Joy Reid]

time, Donald Trump, is mentioned in the Epstein files more than Jesus is mentioned in the Bible. He was best friends with a pedophile, multiple pedophiles, multiple modeling agents when he was a modeling agent.

[Jason]

And he had all these friends that were sexually abusing the models. So let's just, so let me just be clear, y'.

[Joy Reid]

All spiking the football about Graham Platner is really not your bag baby. That is not your ministry. So if you're a Republican, don't say anything about Graham Platner.

[Jason]

Let the main Democratic Party figure this out. And I'm going to reiterate again.

[Joy Reid]

Now, some people don't like it when I say this, but I'm going to say it again. If you don't like it, I guess you're just not going to like it. Maine Democrats, if you want to win, you should replace Grant Platner with somebody who's equally progressive. You don't want a chance that the people who voted for Grant Platner feel disrespected because you replace him with a Schumer moderate. If you do that, you're doing that at your own risk. Because the reality is the voters of Maine were very clear that they Want change. And Democrats, Democrats.

[Jason]

I'm saying this with love because you guys act up.

[Joy Reid]

You need to actually show your base that you don't just want the gavels, that you intend to change things.

[Jason]

Because if you just switch the brand

[Joy Reid]

of the House and Senate, and now it's the Democratic brand, but nothing happens to change people's lives. Watch it flip right back to Republicans in two years.

[Jason]

Because people just want change. And I don't think people are as

[Joy Reid]

married to the parties as you are.

[Jason]

You're in the party, so you care

[Joy Reid]

a lot about the party label. The party label is meaningful to you.

[Jason]

Used to be meaningful to me.

[Joy Reid]

Growing up Democrat was part of my identity.

[Jason]

As I've gotten older and wiser, it's

[Joy Reid]

not as much a part of my identity. My identity is more. I'm trying to survive in this country as an African American woman, as a black woman, as a, as a daughter of immigrants, as a citizen, as a person who cares about the community, who cares about vulnerable communities. That's my, my identity is that I'm a. I am a humanist that cares about people.

[Jason]

And so the party identity is less

[Joy Reid]

a part of my brand now because I don't have to. I don't owe the Democratic Party anything.

[Jason]

The Democratic Party owes me. And if you're in the base, the Democratic Party is supposed to work for you, not the other way around.

[Joy Reid]

But sometimes, unfortunately, I think the Democratic Party treats its voters as if they are employees and they're just required to pull the lever regardless of who is being presented to us.

[Jason]

But that is not the case. You work for the people.

[Joy Reid]

You work for the people, not the other way around.

[Jason]

So it's not on the people to

[Joy Reid]

obey you and vote for people who they feel are less than worthy of their vote or people who aren't going to change any damn thing.

[Jason]

Like people weren't in love with Graham

[Joy Reid]

Platner because they loved his freaking tattoo.

[Jason]

They thought his tattoo was stupid, but

[Joy Reid]

they liked the ideas and they wanted change. And he was saying, I'm a working class guy who cares about working class people and I'm going to literally change things for you.

[Jason]

That's all. It's a transaction.

[Joy Reid]

We want the transaction. You need to say credibly that you're

[Jason]

going to change things, not that you're

[Joy Reid]

just going to say, Donald Trump is bad. Now I'm a Democrat, Here I am, I'm not Trump. Saying, here I am, I'm not Trump and I'm changing the brand of the House and Senate to Democrat.

[Jason]

That is not going to be enough. People want actual change.

[Joy Reid]

You have to give them something to vote for.

[Jason]

You have to present real, credible change

[Joy Reid]

in their material lives. That is why Mamdani is popular. Everybody's looking for the sea.

[Jason]

It's not some secret.

[Joy Reid]

He's popular because he's changing people's lives for the better.

[Jason]

That's all people wanted to pop. You know, people would like to not think about politics. People would like to just go watch

[Joy Reid]

the Michael Jackson movie and get on with their lives and do their favorite dance and watch, you know, people just want to enjoy.

[Jason]

I would love to have this show

[Joy Reid]

be fun and do and talk to,

[Jason]

you know, our favorite celebrities and do

[Joy Reid]

fun we don't want to have.

[Jason]

I used to be able to go

[Joy Reid]

to Star Trek Con when I was doing tv. We used to go to Star Trek Con, y'.

[Ben Crump]

All.

[Jason]

We used to have a great time. We used to have so much fun.

[Joy Reid]

On our weekend show on am, we

[Jason]

had fun and we stopped being able to have fun. The fun has been ripped out of the American life. We can't even have fun because every

[Joy Reid]

minute we're worried that there's another war, there's another economic crisis, or we look in the bank account, it's like, oh, man, my money's not the stretch anymore

[Jason]

because they've raised the prices. The price of gas is by. People are exhausted.

[Joy Reid]

And Democrats, you think just changing the brand to D is going to make people happy and that that'll be enough.

[Jason]

You're just offering peace but not change. You're offering calm but not change. So the reality is, if that's all you're offering is, look, we're going to

[Joy Reid]

put a D there.

[Jason]

But what if that D is still

[Joy Reid]

sending our money to bomb Gazans instead of giving us healthcare? And.

[Jason]

And here's the connection.

[Joy Reid]

The reason we care so much about Gaza is because we're human beings. We care about Sudan and Gaza and Congo because we're human. That's why we're Democrats generally, or liberals.

[Jason]

We care about these people. But we also actually would like that

[Joy Reid]

money spent on us. We actually would like that money spent so that our roads aren't crap, while Japan has beautiful, incredible roads and railroads that come on time and are beautiful and clean and ours are crap. And it looks like you're driving through a country that is a barely developing country. When you drive through most of our cities, our roads are bad.

[Jason]

Our hospitals are barely staffed.

[Joy Reid]

We don't have enough nurses. And then when the immigrant nurses come

[Jason]

in, you don't want Them because they don't. Their primary language is in English or they have an accent.

[Joy Reid]

You get pissed off.

[Jason]

But we can't afford to become nurses in this country. It's too expensive. We have all these doctors from Pakistan, and because they're the ones who can

[Joy Reid]

afford to go to medical school, our

[Jason]

people can't even afford to go. People are exhausted.

[Joy Reid]

They want to be able to pay

[Jason]

their bills and actually have a little

[Joy Reid]

left over to go out to eat.

[Jason]

They want a little leftover to be

[Joy Reid]

able to go to a movie and not feel like, oh, my God, I'm gonna break myself financially if I go to dinner in a movie I can't afford.

[Jason]

Young people want to go on a date. Jason, we have kids that are trying to date. It's. They have to scramble together the money for dinner.

[Co-host Jason]

Hey, dad, you gotta. Cause you know this one. I get it, girl. It wasn't like that when it was younger.

[Jason]

We were like, then they're like, why

[Doug]

aren't they having kids?

[Jason]

They can't be kids. They don't need money for kids. And then if they do have kids, they can't even get a good obgyn. They might die on the table because y' all don't run all the obgyns out of red states because you want an abortion ban. So now they have to risk their life to have kids. Why that? They can't even afford to feed. What are we doing?

[Joy Reid]

We have terrible health care. And they're like, these immigrants want to come in for our welfare.

[Jason]

Why do you think so many people are on.

[Joy Reid]

Why do you think so many people are on welfare?

[Jason]

People are welfare because y' all economy suck. Nobody's trying to cut. They're trying to go to Canada for health care. They're trying to go to Europe for health care. People are literally crossing the border into Mexico to buy drugs there. Because they're cheaper there. They're not cheaper here. No one's sneaking into the United States

[Joy Reid]

to get our cheap prescription drugs.

[Jason]

The cheap prescription drugs are on the other side of the border. When people had Covid here, when Covid broke, where are people going? Mexico. To the point where Mexico had to say, slow down, buddies. You got to stop invading our cities. You're making shit too expensive.

[Joy Reid]

Get out.

[Jason]

They had to kick us out because we're all Cancun cruise. Everybody's running down there because it was better to be there because it's cleaner. The air was fresher. We got smog. We got these AI factories making the water poisonous.

[Co-host Jason]

Y' all got More roommates than righteousness.

[Jason]

People got eight roommates just to live in a little crappy time, tiny apartment. This is terrible, y'.

[Janine DiGiovanni]

All.

[Jason]

This is. You know why? People are like, well, why do people.

[Joy Reid]

Why do people stay in Mississippi?

[Jason]

You know why?

[Joy Reid]

Because even if you're broke, at least

[Jason]

you can afford to have a little

[Joy Reid]

house on some land.

[Jason]

You go into the cities, people are. People are literally choking. And so people like Mamdani are easing the pressure and making it fun to be in New York again. You know, the happiest city right now

[Joy Reid]

is New York City. New York is the happiest city.

[Jason]

It's the happy every.

[Joy Reid]

The vibe is happy, it's cleaner. You go there, you can see the difference.

[Jason]

This dude is making change. That's all people want from politics.

[Joy Reid]

They just want people who do what he's doing.

[Jason]

And you don't have to call yourself a democratic socialist to do it, but if you do, we don't care.

[Joy Reid]

Like, actually, the whole socialism thing doesn't bother us anymore. No one cares.

[Jason]

I used to be the one to

[Joy Reid]

say that, you know, it was going to be tough for a Bernie Sanders to be president.

[Jason]

And my whole theory as to why, even though I thought his positions were better, was because you're a socialist. You call yourself a socialist? Socialist. You're going to lose Florida. That was my opinion. But I have grown since then to realize that my generation, Gen Xers, care.

[Joy Reid]

But I promise you, them, wise and Alpha, they don't give a damn. They don't care about that. You call people a socialist, they don't care what you call yourself.

[Jason]

They're just like, what are you going to do for me? They're smart. They're actually smarter. They're super transactional. They're like, what are you going to

[Joy Reid]

literally do for me? You're going to raise my wages? You're going to make the rent cheaper? Are you going to make me be able to get a mortgage, make me

[Jason]

be able to afford.

[Joy Reid]

Afford college, make me not have to drown in student loans, make me be

[Co-host Jason]

able to pay my debts, let me get to work, Let me have a.

[Joy Reid]

All people want, all over the world,

[Jason]

right, is to wake up in the morning, stretch their arms, try to do

[Joy Reid]

something they're passionate about, feel good about whatever they're doing with their day, make

[Jason]

enough money doing it so that they

[Joy Reid]

can actually breathe, pay their bills and

[Jason]

not be drowning in bills, and then have a little fun with their friends.

[Co-host Jason]

Now, see, that's a message that a Democrat should be selling, but they don't do that Platner, and you can hate him.

[Jason]

He may be a terrible human being, but that is why he was resonating. It's not because people are like, ooh, that tattoo's cute. No, they didn't care about that. They just want their lives back. And they're like, if I gotta vote for this shitty guy to get my life back, I'm gonna do it. And they were gonna do it. So if you are the main Democratic Party. And again, I know some people don't like hearing this.

[Joy Reid]

If you don't give those voters that same Graham Platner energy and that lady

[Jason]

gets six more years, don't blame Joy Reid.

[Joy Reid]

Blame yourselves.

[Jason]

If you give them a tepid namby pamby, Chuck Schumer, approved. Don't offense Chuck personally, but he likes the moderates. Give him a moderate boring candidate that cannot beat that woman, then she gets six more years and she in there till she 90. That's not my fault. That's your fault. Because people are not going to be excited. They want the change. They want the change.

[Representative Sylvia Garcia]

They.

[Jason]

This moderate, you can try it. People are already mad at what's her name in Virginia because they're like, she's not fighting hard enough.

[Joy Reid]

People want fighters.

[Jason]

They want. They want people who express care and concern, who get them excited to vote.

[Joy Reid]

You don't want to have to, all right, I'll vote. Nobody wants that. People don't want to have to be like, okay, fine.

[Jason]

People want to be like, yes. That is why them three candidates that Mamdani put forward forward one, because even

[Joy Reid]

though it was a small percentage of

[Jason]

people who came out, I promise you,

[Joy Reid]

those young people were excited to vote. They were excited to vote.

[Jason]

Voting was not a chore for them.

[Joy Reid]

They were happy to do it because

[Jason]

they were like, I'm voting to change my life. And this is what Democrats must offer. It's this whole vote glue. No matter who, you're treating us like employees. You're treating us like we are obligated to obey you.

[Joy Reid]

You want obedience. Not passion, obedience. First of all, we ain't giving you obedience because you've not obeyed us.

[Jason]

When Build Back Better was on the

[Joy Reid]

table and I went on this and

[Jason]

the Democrats got mad at me.

[Joy Reid]

When I was at the Artist Formerly Known as msnbc, and I kept questioning how it is that you had Build

[Jason]

Back Better that was supposed to not

[Joy Reid]

just have bridges and roads that were going to go mostly to big contractors and subcontractors who were already government contractors and already rich. The second half of that was Supposed

[Jason]

to be money for free, preschool for subsidized child care, for things that women and children needed to make ordinary people's lives a little bit easier. That all got cut out. And the progressives, the squad who y' all get so mad at, they were

[Joy Reid]

ordered to vote for that shit.

[Jason]

And if they didn't vote for it,

[Joy Reid]

they were demonized for not voting for

[Jason]

it because they separated it. Because Joe Manchin, let's remember the history

[Joy Reid]

Joe Manchin said, I won't vote for that half. Just give me the infrastructure. I just will vote for infrastructure.

[Co-host Jason]

And then what was the response? You know, okay, let's vote for this one first and then we'll go for that one now. Because the Republicans said we'll do, you know, they'll run with us, okay?

[Jason]

And once they separated it, the build back better piece was already dead the minute you separated it. And this was the warning that the Progressive Caucus gave to the main caucus. The Progressive said, if you separate build

[Joy Reid]

back better away from big infrastructure, big infrastructure will pass because Republicans can check that box off, go home and take

[Jason]

credit for the, for the bridges.

[Joy Reid]

But the other piece, the piece for the women and children, for the young people, for Head Start, for Meals on Wheels, for old people, the stuff that

[Jason]

was actually going to enrich people's lives and make being in America a little easier, that shit got left by the

[Joy Reid]

side of the road.

[Jason]

And who were the bad guys?

[Joy Reid]

The progressives for saying no.

[Jason]

Who got demonized?

[Joy Reid]

The progressives for saying, that's not good

[Jason]

enough for my people.

[Joy Reid]

I can't vote for the Bill 1

[Jason]

without Bill 2, put them back together. They were literally ordered to vote for it.

[Joy Reid]

They wanted obedience from those people.

[Jason]

But those people weren't saying their job wasn't to be obedient. Their job was to do the right thing for their constituents.

[Joy Reid]

They got demonized for it.

[Jason]

When those people in the little Progressive

[Joy Reid]

Caucus, the summer leaves and the AOCs and what's the brother in New York City and Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman,

[Jason]

they said, can we just not spend this money on bombs, bombing little brown

[Joy Reid]

kids and little black and brown and little tan kids in Israel.

[Jason]

Can we just not spend that? Can we not spend that money and keep that money here so we can feed our people? We come from some of the poorest districts where people are needy. Can we just take that 3 billion and not give it to Israel for

[Joy Reid]

bombs and take that money and cull it back and do America first?

[Jason]

And they were called almost demonic.

[Joy Reid]

And APEC said, take them out.

[Jason]

And the leadership said, you know what? Me, we can help you a little. Like, they weren't that excited to help them stay in because they're not obedient. You know what a progressive is, a disobedient Democrat.

[Joy Reid]

It's Al Green.

[Jason]

You know, he said he's a liberated Democrat. I'm a liberated Democrat because liberated Democrats

[Joy Reid]

are not obedient to the, the leadership.

[Jason]

Supposed to be obedient to the people, not the other way around.

[Joy Reid]

Y' all want obedience. You don't want our passion. You want our obedience. You want us to obey you.

[Jason]

We should not obey.

[Joy Reid]

And I'm gonna say the last thing before I get to the moment. Church of enjoy. As voters, we have to stop being obedient and we have to start being powerful. Because the only way that elected officials stay in office is us. We're the voters. We have the power. We can't just lope into the midterms sad and obedient and saying, fine, we'll vote for the Democrats. We know they're not going to do anything. We know nothing will change. But at least they're not Trump.

[Jason]

At least they're not Trump.

[Joy Reid]

Trump, Trump, Trump. Trump is bad.

[Jason]

We didn't even play Trump talking in this show. And you heard all the horrible. Look at all the horrible. He also is horrible. He's horrible, but he is a cog in the wheel. The bad guys are the people who

[Joy Reid]

are operating Trump like a puppet.

[Jason]

He is the puppet that they're letting

[Joy Reid]

have money and crypto wealth and billions and a stupid plane and letting him

[Jason]

tinker with the White House. And now he's doing the columns and,

[Joy Reid]

and he's destroying Washington D.C. he's like

[Jason]

a child running through D.C. destroying it. And they're letting him do that.

[Joy Reid]

While the bad guys are running the country, the truly evil people, as Ibram

[Jason]

X Kendi tried to say, are tricking white working class people into working against their own economic interests so they can

[Joy Reid]

keep 10 brown people out of Walmart and keep four little trans kids around the country whom they'll never meet from kicking a freaking soccer ball. And they've got them so many mesmerized by that and are all watching Fox like zombies, you know, worried that, oh my God, a trans girl is going to kick a soccer ball.

[Jason]

I gotta stop her. She's in another state.

[Joy Reid]

I'll never meet her, but I gotta stop her.

[Jason]

And they're so mesmerized and hypnotized by anti black racism and hypnotized by women

[Joy Reid]

are out of Control and misogyny, and that's not even helping them.

[Jason]

And then you go and you look at your life and your life ain't. Your life looks like the. Like the reflecting pool. It's. It's swampy, it's a mess. And Trump is getting rich and you're getting poor. And some people are waking up, and they're so afraid of that that they're

[Joy Reid]

like, we got to pass the Save America act and make it impossible for these people to vote. Because these people are catching on to what we do.

[Jason]

They catch it on to the scam. Where all my scamming ass at in

[Joy Reid]

Washington, D.C. that's where you're scamming ass are at.

[Jason]

The scammers are in D.C. and people are waking up and being like, ew,

[Joy Reid]

maybe that song is an anthem. They're like, oh, my God, the scammers are scamming me.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And.

[Jason]

And then I'm so busy worried about black people or brown people or immigrants, I'm getting scammed. And so Democrats don't think that playing into complacency and just telling us, put

[Joy Reid]

on the blue jersey and shut the hell up, that.

[Jason]

That's going to help you win.

[Joy Reid]

No, you need passion on your side.

[Jason]

You need people who say, I'm passionate

[Joy Reid]

about changing the leadership in the House

[Jason]

and Senate to people who are going

[Joy Reid]

to change my life.

[Jason]

I'm changing the leadership not to put

[Joy Reid]

a blue jersey on, but to literally change my life.

[Jason]

I want my life to materially change. Promise me, change something real.

[Joy Reid]

What's going to happen when you get the gavels?

[Jason]

What are you going to do?

[Joy Reid]

Who's going to jail?

[Jason]

Mitch, who's getting thrown in that jail if they don't come testify? Who's getting subpoenaed? At least give me that. Give me what you're going to do to these people. We need it to stop. We want the pain to stop. All right, so we're not saying. We don't want the Democrats to say, of course we do.

[Joy Reid]

We don't want these idiots keeping control.

[Jason]

They are morons. And they're literally simps for Trump, and they're simps for not even the boss.

[Joy Reid]

How pathetic do you have to be

[Jason]

that you are simps for the. You're not. He's not even the boss. Peter Thiel is the boss. Palantir is the boss. Elon's the boss.

[Joy Reid]

Literally.

[Jason]

The boss lives in Argentina. Trump isn't the boss. Y' all think Trump the boss. Stephen Miller the boss. Oh, Donald Trump. They're letting him play in traffic and take money while they're literally rinsing this country dry.

[Joy Reid]

They're literally.

[Jason]

They're selling it for parts.

[Joy Reid]

They're selling America for parts. And while you guys are so distracted by Trump's latest idiotic thing, he's saying with other stupid pronouncement he makes. We're going to be in a forever

[Jason]

war in Iran that's literally enriching a small group of people, including paler, who want forever war. It's their business. They've said it. Their business is war. They love Israel because Israel's always at war. Why do you think they love Israel? Because they like Jewish people? No, they like Israel because they're always at war. They can test their.

[Joy Reid]

Their war on them.

[Jason]

They can let the war be used on people. They really don't care about Palestinians.

[Joy Reid]

They're just.

[Jason]

They're just literally fodder to drop bombs on so we can see what the bombs do. Like what we did to Japan in World War II.

[Joy Reid]

We're going to see what the bombs will do.

[Jason]

Let's drop them on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No one cares about them. And so they're still doing that. We're getting. We're suckers. We're all being suckered.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, I'm going to stop.

[Jason]

We're being suckered every minute. And I do mean maga, too. And some of them are figuring it out. Not all of them are getting some suckered. Some of them are figuring out I'm getting suckered, too. They stealing from me as well.

[Joy Reid]

The worst thing that could happen.

[Jason]

They killed Fred Hampton is Fred Hampton

[Joy Reid]

went over to them racist white people

[Jason]

and said, guess what? Y' all broke like me. And then he went over to them Chicanos and he said, guess what? Oh, yeah, y' all broke, too. And all the white racist people of the Chicano people looked at that black man and said, you know what? We should team up.

[Joy Reid]

And they were like, yeah, he got it. Yeah, he's gotta die. Nightmare is the working class all rising up against the super rich Point. And the working class includes, like, pretty much like, doctors and lawyers that are also broke.

[Jason]

Like, everyone's broke. They've taken all the money and they've run away with it. They've run away with it.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, no, they already got y'.

[Narrator/Reporter]

All.

[Joy Reid]

So you think that they got all your names. They are about to do full surveillance.

[Jason]

Palantir has your Social Security number, all of your data.

[Joy Reid]

They are watching you in the street. They are watching you through your phone.

[Jason]

They've already got the secret surveillance State

[Joy Reid]

it is established and set up. Next, they're going to merge our military with Israel's military so they can start using the IDF's tactics on our streets,

[Jason]

which they're already doing. They killed that poor man in Houston

[Joy Reid]

for driving a van. They killed pretty and good for walking in the street or driving.

[Jason]

They're good. They're busting in people's houses.

[Joy Reid]

They killing at will. They got the men walking around in masks. The new clan that are probably all going to be working at your Social Security office, they're going to be at your va. They're going to take off them little masks and they're going to take them diapers off their faces and suddenly be administering the federal government.

[Jason]

Y' all gonna be like, what happened to my check? That's what happened to your check.

[Joy Reid]

A bunch of incompetent racists are in charge. And if the Democrats sit there and say what we're going to do about that is, well, you know, we're going to try to get 60 votes in the Senate. And, you know, if we can get 60 votes, then maybe we can pass a. A bill to study what's happening. And then see, after that, we're. We're gonna. We're gonna really methodically try to do a bipartisan bill.

[Co-host Jason]

We gotta get the Republican supporters.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And we're gonna.

[Joy Reid]

We're gonna see if we can get some of our friends on the other

[Narrator/Reporter]

side of the aisle.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Co-host Jason]

You know, because we, you know, we have to make their people. People's happy. I mean. Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

You know, we want to try to get back the working class. And so what we're going to do

[Jason]

is we're going to.

[Co-host Jason]

We're going to basically go back to what we've been doing since 1970. We're trying to win back the, you

[Joy Reid]

know, we strongly worded letter. Oh, I see that. Melinda's got an excellent idea, Jason, but she said we ought to write a strong word. And see, the letter is going to be written in all caps. So they really know that we're serious.

[Co-host Jason]

And then we need to go get like $50 billion for some consultants to, you know, focus shop it.

[Joy Reid]

And, you know, asmr.

[Jason]

I mean, literally, it's like. And if y'.

[Ben Crump]

All.

[Jason]

And you can do that, and look,

[Joy Reid]

honestly, it's not my party. I'm not in charge. If that's what you want to do, do it.

[Jason]

But if you don't win that way, don't blame.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Don't blame.

[Jason]

Don't you. Because what I'm saying is what people want is something they want.

[Narrator/Reporter]

They.

[Jason]

The Graham Platner, obviously not a great guy, okay? But what he was doing on that

[Joy Reid]

side, Stump, is he was speaking into people's soul and their need. And people want that same energy. They want the passion.

[Jason]

They want somebody who's just like, I don't give a bloop. I'm gonna go up there and fight

[Joy Reid]

like a junkyard dog for the working man. I'm gonna fight like a junkyard dog. To make sure you can afford your life, to make sure you can afford that you have a decent job, that you're not thrown out of your job because you're black, because you're a woman, because you're gay, because you're trans. I'm gonna make sure that. That we don't care about any of that.

[Jason]

All we want is people.

[Joy Reid]

People who come who want to work

[Jason]

hard and be a part of this

[Joy Reid]

country, people who want to actually maybe retire when they're 60 and not when they're 80. People who don't want to work till they die. People who don't want to stand on their feet till they're 70 years old because they can't afford to stop working as a Walmart greeter. Like, we want people to have health care. We want people to have a baby without dying in childbirth.

[Jason]

Like, these are simple, decent things that we should expect in supposedly the richest

[Joy Reid]

country in the world.

[Jason]

Why do people live better in Israel, Norway, Sweden, everywhere else? And then we're. We're lying to ourselves and saying everyone

[Joy Reid]

wants to come here to get on welfare here.

[Jason]

That's bullshit. People are coming here because it's even worse where they are, because we probably did something to fuck their country up. And then they have to come here just to survive.

[Joy Reid]

And then we're mad that they're here doing all the work that we don't want to do anyway.

[Doug]

There we go.

[Jason]

Let me play the. Let me play the one. I was going with my.

[Joy Reid]

One of my.

[Jason]

Oh, listen, if you guys have not

[Joy Reid]

heard enough of me, if you're not sick of me yet, Please join me July 18th, Saturday, 18th.

[Jason]

If you can get to Newark, New

[Joy Reid]

Jersey, viewer con is going to be so much fun. My buddy Chris Witherspoon is created this amazing thing. It's like Comic Con or Star Trek Con, but for TV and movies. And so Starz, it's brought to you by our friends at Starz.

[Jason]

And this is just, like, super fun. Remember I was saying, like, we want the fun back.

[Joy Reid]

This is the fun. So if you go to viewercon Co. You can get your tickets. There's a limited number of of them. So you want to try to get yourself in. It's like Comic Con and it's going to be great. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be in the opening session. Chris is going to interview me. Then I'm going to interview a celeb. It's going to be great. They're going to debut one of the new star series there, so you can get to see an exclusive debut.

[Jason]

What'd you say?

[Joy Reid]

Yes. So we're going to definitely get you. See you there.

[Jason]

If you can get there. If you're near New Jersey, please get your tickets now.

[Joy Reid]

It's also on my social media, so it's viewercon.co. it's gonna be fun, you guys. We need the fun back. We're bringing the fun back. We're doing our best to bring the fun back, okay? So that's one of the things we're doing to bring the fun back. So please, please, please, please, please. Somebody says, how about pts? We all have ptsd. We're gonna have fun.

[Jason]

We also have our wonderful Freedom Summer

[Joy Reid]

collection that is up at our [e-mail] show.com. so if you want to wear your Freedom Summer gear and you want to

[Jason]

show up and shot and piss a

[Joy Reid]

maga off, the ones who are still in maga need to be pissed off every day. We need to make them angry every day.

[Jason]

And by the way, we're Republicans.

[Joy Reid]

I hate to break it to you. You own the patriot front. They're yours. You're gonna have to keep them. The diapers on their faces belong to you. The diaper face boys are yours. Don't try to put them on the D's. That's your team. The diaper face boys are yours. Okay, guys, here goes the moment of joy.

[Jason]

So our moment of joy before I let me set it up.

[Joy Reid]

So one of my.

[Jason]

When I was growing up, one of

[Joy Reid]

my favorite things was peanuts. And I used to actually draw the peanuts. It was one of the things that I did like as entertainment. I would like draw the peanuts for all my friends and kids in school. So a teacher named Mr. Capps asked his students to draw peanuts, and here's what ensued. There's no sound on it because it has the song we're not allowed to.

[Jason]

Oh,

[Doug]

Sa.

[Joy Reid]

Okay.

[Doug]

All right.

[Joy Reid]

That is Winsome's choice, and it's super cute.

[Jason]

I mean, the kids are talented.

[Joy Reid]

They are adorable. But when you do give children the opportunity to be Creative.

[Jason]

You may not know what you're gonna

[Joy Reid]

get, but you're always gonna get something fun.

[Jason]

Thank you all for watching.

[Joy Reid]

I hope you guys have a fabulous, fabulous weekend.

[Jason]

Do something fun. Go see a movie. If you guys go see a movie, be prepared to come back. There'll be a quiz on Monday as

[Joy Reid]

to what movie I know I'm going to see. I cannot wait for the Odyssey. I don't know.

[Jason]

Does it come out this weekend?

[Joy Reid]

I want to see Michael Jackson. I want to see the Odyssey. There's a whole bunch of, I think Shrek. There's a new Shrek movie. So we're excited. It's gonna be a great movie weekend. Mickey Brown.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I know.

[Jason]

Baddie.

[Joy Reid]

The baddie one was really funny. So, yes, go and do something fun if you can afford it. If not, just go and hug a tree. Be in nature.

[Jason]

Take a walk.

[Joy Reid]

Do something fun. Do something for yourself. We sending you guys a lot of love. We love our readers, our team tjr.

[Co-host Jason]

Take a break from politics and take

[Jason]

a break from politics. Just ignore it.

[Joy Reid]

Ignore the orange one.

[Jason]

Other than this fabulous orange, the only

[Joy Reid]

orange thing you should be paying attention to is my fabulous tea. Don't pay attention to that son of a. This weekend. Give him a break and we'll see you guys back here on Monday. We've got lots of great stuff. We are next week going to have Mr. El Sayed, the candidate for governor of Michigan. Is it Omar EL Sayed? He is going to be right here on this show. We're excited to talk to him. One of the other people who is. Who's really getting people passionate about leadership. One of the things we really want to do is to have people on who are going to make people excited to vote for offering material, wonderful, incredible things. He's one of them. So he'll be here on Monday and

[Jason]

until then, take a break from politics. We love you guys.

[Joy Reid]

See you on Mondays. The door beach show. Happy weekend.

[Jason]

Cheers.

[Elmore Wansley]

Getting back to the basics Grassroot level Let me dig a little deeper with the shovel Plenty can't tell the forest from the trees and I'm hard to detect Like a black hole in the dark Injustice anywhere It's a dangerous breath of justice everywhere Let me make this clear I got a bone to pick and I'll never fear the threat of poverty they don't want to talk about it they rap the party so I'm a real talk about it for show.