Donald Trump (12:13)

She just was also like, why am.

Joy Reid (12:14)

I here if I can't do nothing?

Donald Trump (12:16)

Where they limited him so much.

Joy Reid (12:18)

She's like, it's pointless. She's like, I get why we're here. Crime's bad, but it's pointless if we can't do anything. If we can't do anything, what? If we can't? What would she be doing? Per ABC News, during the press conference on Thursday, former Fox host and seeming box wine enthusiast Jeanine Pirro said that the two guardsmen were sworn in just 24 hours before they were shot. A joint task force spokesperson later said that the two guard members were deputized to, quote, maintain their status to conduct presence patrols. What are presence patrols? Those aren't the same as crime fighting. The Guardsman's orders in the nation's capital had been set to expire. On November 30th. But they both volunteered to stay on extended orders per the West Virginia National Guard. Now, the extension was authorized by the West Virginia governor, Patrick Morrissey, at the request of President Donald Trump. And he requested that extension to go all the way through the end of the year. And Trump has insisted that guard members were needed to secure the city from a lawless crime wave. But most of the guardsmen, and I've been to D.C. and seen them, most of them were just patrolling like Union Station, where the only real so called crime are maybe homeless people, but there's not a lot of crime there. And patrolling Metro stations. The rest worked on beautification projects around the city. They were literally picking up trash and volunteering in food banks. Now patrolling Metro stations and food banks just to me does not sound like they're responding to a crime wave or an emergency. And helping at food banks is very noble work, to be sure, and more needed than ever with Trump's wrecked tariff economy. But that does not sound like a crime emergency either. That requires armed federal troops. And as to that Metro station near the White House, that is not a crime ridden part of DC Either. There are parts of DC that have high crime. That ain't one of them. This is a little thing here that. This is the Metro station. You're looking at a picture of the Metro station. It is located seven minutes away from the White House. I actually did a Google Maps of it just to be sure. It's seven minutes walking distance from the White House. That's not a high crime area. So what were they even doing there? Why were they even there? I mean, nothing about Trump's explanation for why DC is under occupation by Southern troops, mainly like a reverse civil war, makes any sense. No wonder the judges ruled the way they did. But the shooting turns out to be really, really convenient for Trump's appeal in December, in which he will now be able to argue to the Supreme Court that D.C. is under a violent emergency from foreign domestic terroristic assailants. One who happens to have come here as a result of Joe Biden completing Donald Trump's announced removal of US Troops from Afghanistan, something that Trump promised when he was president the first time, but that Biden completed. And about that withdrawal, remember during the 2024 campaign when Trump debated Vice President Kamala Harris and she offered us a very helpful reminder. We're going to play that for you.

Merck (15:41)

This.

Joy Reid (15:42)

No, get this.

Rua Roman (15:44)

And the president at the time invited.

Joy Reid (15:47)

The Taliban to Camp David, a place.

Rua Roman (15:51)

Of storied significance for us as Americans.

Joy Reid (15:54)

A place where we honor the importance of American diplomacy, where we invite and.

Nalini Stamp (16:00)

Receive respected world leaders.

Joy Reid (16:03)

And this.

Rua Roman (16:07)

Former president, as president, invited.

Nalini Stamp (16:09)

Them to Camp David because he does.

Rua Roman (16:13)

Not again, appreciate the role and responsibility of the President of the United States.

Joy Reid (16:21)

To be Commander in Chief with a level of respect.

Rua Roman (16:24)

And this gets back to the point of how he has consistently disparaged and.

Joy Reid (16:29)

Demeaned members of our military, fallen soldiers.

Rua Roman (16:33)

And the work that we must do.

Nalini Stamp (16:34)

To uphold the strength and the respect.

Joy Reid (16:38)

Of the United States of America around the world. The motherfucker was implied. When she paused. The motherfucker was implied. Sorry for the cousin, but you know what she wanted to say, right? So Trump, you know, she is correct, offered to. There's this whole Peter Baker story in the New York Times where they talk about this dramatic meeting where Trump comes up with this idea that he's gonna meet with the Taliban, invite them to Camp David, literally on the anniversary of nine, no less, to negotiate a deal to end the 20 year endless US war. Something that, by the way, I think a lot of us agreed with doing, like ending that war went on too long. But the question of whether the president should negotiate in person with the Taliban, it pit his then Secretary of State, whose name is Mike Pompeo, who was for it, against his National Security advisor, John Bolton, who was against it, and. And who Trump is now ordered to be indicted for mishandling classified documents, which Trump for a time was himself indicted for doing. Are you keeping up with all of this? But he had to rescind the invitation after the Taliban admitted responsibility for a terrorist attack that killed a U.S. serviceman. But he still made the deal. Here is the BBC headline at the time where he made a deal to end the war in Afghanistan. Now fast forward to Joe Biden becoming president, and he wound up completing the deal. That Trump actually started withdrawing US troops abruptly from the country on August 30, 2021, ironically the anniversary of the march on Washington. And as you will recall, the withdrawal was a mess, pure chaos. A lot of Afghans who had actually helped us and risked their lives for the US cause over the previous 20 years were scrambling for the plane. Some got left behind. Women and girls who had gone to school under US Troops protection were effectively handed back over to the Taliban and driven out of school. Now, eventually, the US did begin bringing some of our Afghan allies here to the United States to settle as a reward to settle here in US Cities as a reward for their service. Here is an OG copy of Lindsey Graham from back then explaining why we needed to do that right thing to do. There is no other ending that would.

Merck (18:57)

Is acceptable to me.

Joy Reid (18:59)

The people who were there with us in the fight that are here in America need to stay. This will be their new home. So we have a moral obligation to these people. They, they will make great citizens over so we have a moral obligation and we did. Now, one of the people who made it here was Ramonola Lockinwal, and here's what the New York Times reports about him. Mr. Lockenwall was raised in a village in the province of Khost in southeastern Afghanistan, growing up in a country at war. At some point, he joined a zero unit, according to a person briefed on the investigation and an Afghan intelligence officer familiar with the matter. Zero units, which were formerly part of the Afghan intelligence service but operated outside the usual chain of command, were largely recruited, trained, equipped and overseen by the CIA. According to Human Rights Watch, these units specialized in night raids and clandestine missions. Taliban officials and human rights groups described them as death squads. Human Rights Watch said it had documented several instances in which the units were responsible for extra judicial executions and enforced disappearances, indiscriminate airstrikes, attacks on medical facilities, and other violations of international humanitarian law. The CIA has denied such allegations of brutality, saying they were the result of Taliban propaganda. Mr. Lackawann's unit was based in Kandahar, a city that was devastated by bombings and assassinations during the war, according to an intelligence officer. One of Mr. Lachenwall's brothers was the unit's deputy commander. A childhood friend who asked to be identified only as Mohammed because he feared Taliban reprisals, said that Mr. Lockenwall had suffered from mental health issues and was disturbed by the casualties he his unit had caused. Quote, he would tell me and our friends that their military operations were very tough, their job was very difficult, and they were under a lot of pressure, mohammed said. Zero units these CIA spy units ended up playing a pivotal role in the US military's withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021, securing the remaining US and NATO bases and the Kabul airport. As the Taliban retook control, many members of the Kandahar unit were evacuated with US help, many resend resettled in the Seattle area. Mr. Lackinwall was among the thousands of Afghans who were brought to the United States as part of a temporary program called Operation Allies Welcome. That program was put in place under President Biden to manage the immigration of Afghan nationals fleeing Taliban rule, including those who had helped US troops. The program allowed about 76,000 evacuated Afghans to enter the United States for humanitarian reasons after the US Military's chaotic retreat, according to the Washington based Migration Policy Institute. The State Department approved Whatcom County, Washington, on the Canadian border as a resettlement location for World Relief, a Christian humanitarian organization that helps refugees re navigate or navigate their first 90 days in the United States. Dozens of Afghan families arrived in the country in the weeks after the Taliban takeover. Mr. Lackawall wound up in a town called Bellingham, the Whatcom county seat. Authorities say he lived there with his wife and several children. He received asylum from the US Government this April under Donald Trump, according to three people with knowledge of the case who are not authorized to speak publicly. For several weeks this past summer, according to information Provided by Amazon, Mr. Lackinwall worked as a driver for Amazon Flex, delivering packages as an independent contractor. His last delivery was in August. There's more to the story. I'm going to skip some of it because it's a pretty long story. But the bottom line is he was living quietly, delivering for Amazon, and then all of a sudden, for no reason whatsoever, he drove across cross country and shot two National Guardsmen. When the raid happened at his department, people said, quote, we thought they were ICE at first, but then they yelled FBI and they had a search warrant. So this guy Lock and Wong, who was part of a CIA trained kill unit, a zero unit that Human Rights Watch. Human Rights Watch called a death squad, and who Trump's regime actually approved literally this April. And so by November, he's killing US Troops in the nation's capital after being a low key, non threatening, you know, Amazon delivery driver living in a safe house for a year, more than a year. What is happening? And then this shooting helps Trump because now he's going to say, well, you know, we're under attack by Afghan nationals. It's Trump's fault. Trump's people use the shooting immediately to start calling for an end to all Muslim migrations, starting with the nutty Laura Loomer, but then proceeding to all the so called normies. The whole thing fits so neatly and perfectly with the overall Mega Maga strategy to get back to the tried and true Republican practice of demonizing Muslims and ignoring everything else. It's very convenient and I'm not making conspiracy theorists. I'm just saying it's convenient because suddenly the occupation of DC Is about protecting the occupation of DC conveniently from a national from the very country we attacked for harboring al Qaeda after 9 11, for which George W. Bush was the first guy to meet with the Taliban who tried to was allowed to declare forever war. Or I should say George W. Bush was the first guy who sort of went to war with the Taliban. There's a whole history of his sort of dealings with those same sort of forces in the past in his oil business. But George W. Bush, who waged forever war against any and all belligerents tied to terrorism, then becomes a convenient justification for the current president to wage any and all kill them all, leave no survivors war against boaters in the Caribbean, mass murder on the high seas in October and occupying D.C. going to war with Venezuela, whatever he wants. And it is actually perfectly, sort of depressingly symmetrical that he used Seal Team 6. He's using Seal Team 6 to wage the war on the Caribbean Sea As Seal Team 6 was also used to kill Osama bin Laden. It's just all a sort of perfect authoritarian storm. I believe our guest is in place. Joining me now is Lev Parnas who has a really great substack now about the Venezuela piece of this. But I just wanna know if you have any comments, Lev, about the other part of it, the part of it that is this whole strange Afghan situation in the CIA and the kill units.

Lev Parnas (25:26)

I mean. Hi Joy, thanks for having me. I mean, it's just, I mean it's gotten so nutty lately that even I'm starting to, you know, wonder like what some, I mean, it's just incredible to hear some of the crazy stuff that's coming out of the, the White House lately. I mean, with this, especially with the sh. Shooting. I mean, but if you really take a look a bit, it's really not nutty. It's a, it's really part of the same thing. Look at what happened with the Charlie Kirk shooting. First it was all of a sudden transgender was a left wing. Now all of a sudden you have your own mega, you know, out there that are saying it was all a setup, that this was, you know, a cover up. Same thing with, you know, the Texas shooting. It's, it's, it's the same mo it's anything that happens bad, you have to blame the Bidens or you have to the Democrats or it's the left. And you know, and the, the only way to fix it is by going in, sending in the military because that's the power, the authoritarian nature that he's dealing with. So his response to this Is to send 500 more troops in there instead of, you know, tracks again. And the more I think people are starting to realize and see through the, excuse me, because of what he's doing. And you're starting to see, you know, a lot of my, you know, sources over the weekend I've been speaking to in the gop. I think you're going to see a bloodbath and people starting to all of a sudden take long vacations, all of a sudden not showing up for votes, all of a sudden start defying, retiring earlier. I mean, I've been speaking to some of them and they're, you know, this whole thing with Marjorie Taylor Greene, it was just, you know, basically like the damn. I think that broke. That is going to allow others to do it.

Joy Reid (27:15)

Yeah. Troy Nels is the next one who's going to leave. And I looked up his investments. He ain't cashing out. He just leave it. Let me play 11. This is Donald Trump being asked by some journalists about the protection of the troops here. And his answer was, typical Trump.

Nalini Stamp (27:30)

They 11 officials say that the suspect.

Joy Reid (27:33)

Worked very closely with the CIA in.

Nalini Stamp (27:35)

Afghanistan for years, that he was vetted in and the vetting came up clean.

Donald Trump (27:39)

He went. He went cuckoo. I mean, he went nuts. And that happens, too. It happens too often with these people. You see him. But look, this is how they come in. This is how they. They're standing on top of each other. And that's an airplane. There was no vetting or anything. They came in unvetted. And we have a lot of others in this country. We're going to get them out, but they go cuckoo, something happens to them.

Joy Reid (28:02)

Your doj, I do just reported this year that there was thorough vetting by.

Nalini Stamp (28:06)

DHS and by the FBI of these Afghans who were brought into the US So why do you blame the Biden administration?

Donald Trump (28:14)

Because they let them. Are you stupid? Are you a stupid person? Because they came into on a plane along with thousands of other people that shouldn't be here, and you're just asking questions because you're a stupid person. And we. There's a law passed. It's almost impossible not to get them out. You can't get them out once they come in and they came in and they were unvetted, they were unchecked, many of them.

Joy Reid (28:40)

First of all, put me. Can you put me in, Coach? I need to actually be in one of these press conferences. Left. You and I. I think you and I should get together and go to one of these press conferences, because the first thing you need to say as a journalist is, excuse me, Mr. President, that's inappropriate. Can you just answer my question without insulting me and trying to call me stupid? What's stupid about my question, Mr. President. I don't understand why these journals don't have the basic freaking dignity. Don't let him call you stupid. You see them all standing there like they were frozen, like they couldn't, they didn't know what to do. It's absurd. Why don't they defend each other and defend themselves? I'm sorry, that's me going off on a rant.

Lev Parnas (29:14)

No, you're 100. You're 100. Right. And they're doing it because they're scared. They're scared that they're going to lose their credentials. They're scared they're not going to get in there. And they're trying to.

Joy Reid (29:24)

And it's take them because I'm, you're not gonna call me stupid.

Lev Parnas (29:27)

I'm with you. I agree. I, I, I totally agree. And, and not only that, but you know, I, I want you to notice that he's doing this with females. I mean he, it's starting to come out. The real Donald Trump that you know is in the Epstein files. The real Donald Trump that was hanging out with people like Epstein in the 80s and 90s. The real Donald Trump that, you know, went behind the scenes and looked at young girls while they were changing and made fun of his daughter, you know, and all that. This is who you're seeing come out. All of the other thing was an act, you know, before. Now you're starting to see the real job, like the nastiness, the way he talked, the way he enjoys be belittering down. And, and, and I agree with you 100% because everybody, every journalist in their room should be discussed and say, you know what? We're, none of us are going to come in or take a stand for, you know, you know, how is he calling him Miss Pig? He called the other journalist.

Merck (30:22)

Are you kidding me?

Lev Parnas (30:23)

I'll slap you for that. You kidding me?

Joy Reid (30:26)

And my, my, there no men in the press corps. I know I'm being old fashioned. I'm Generation X, but where are the men who let a woman get belittled like that and just stand there looking to the side. You see their eyes darting to the side. What kind of a man. You don't think that you should say something to defend that lady, that stand or even defend yourself sister to say something. I don't understand why they think that it's okay to stand there and just nod. Okay. While he, it's like he's their abusive father.

Lev Parnas (30:51)

Boycott him. What do you think would happen to Donald Trump if all of a sudden the media stopped Reporting on him. If you imagine he had the press conference and all you saw was Newsmax and Fox there, he'd have a heart attack. I mean, like, literally, you know, boycott him because he's lying anyway. He's. He's not giving you the truth. He's, you know, and instead go out there and report like you do, independent journalism. And that's why, you know, I'm really glad, you know, you're having me on, because you, you are doing some incredible work. Thank you, Joy. Because the media out there is just like, you're right. I mean, wake up. I mean, it's.

Joy Reid (31:26)

It's disgusting, like a plate of mashed potatoes. Before I get to. You have some great reporting on yours, I want to just play one more piece of sound and I'm sorry, absolutely. More Trump sound on y'. All. But this is what he said when he was asked if he was going to go to Sarah Beckstrom's funeral. This is a 12.

Donald Trump (31:39)

I haven't thought about it yet, but it certainly is something I could conceive of. I love West Virginia. You know, I won West Virginia by one of the biggest margins of any president anywhere. And it's, you know, these are great people. I love the people of West Virginia. I love the people of our country. But I haven't given it any thought, but it sounds like something I could do. You know, it's very. It's very raw.

Joy Reid (32:04)

It's very raw. You don't know whether you want to go to the funeral, Donald. Really? Are you that. Is that stupid? Are you stupid?

Lev Parnas (32:11)

Stupid narcissist. It's narcissism. It's like, you know, right away, it's about. I want. Just think about his response right away. We're talking about a funeral of a person that gave up her life that you sent there, Donald, to, to do for reason. And now you say the first question is, are you going to go to her funeral? And you say, oh, I love West Virginia. I want it by a lot. Are you kidding me? Just think about the narcissism, the sickness in the mind of what he's thinking.

Joy Reid (32:37)

I would. $1,000 to the journalists who respond to that by saying, are you stupid? Okay, let's get to your reporting. Lev, just tell him. Just ask him the question. Talk about your reporting. Because this Venezuela thing, it appears that we are careening towards sword war with Venezuela and you've got some reporting on your. Your lever members substack about a war council. Please, please explain.

Lev Parnas (33:00)

Yeah, it was fascinating today, early in the morning. Like seven, eight o' clock in the morning, I got a call from one of my sources telling me that Trump is conveying, you know, like a war council. I mean, I call it war council, but the people he's conveying there were Pete Hegsec, I think it's happening tonight, or as we speak right now. Joy. Pete Hegsec, General, what he calls him, you know, raising cane. You got Marco Rubio and Susie Wiles, Stephen Miller, that's what I heard. And there's some others. They're going to be there and the structure is to figure out how to play this Venezuela properly because a couple of things happened. A the reporting of the double tap with Pete Hegsec that really threw them off guard because now you have a bipartisan committee starting to look deeper into these, I mean, literally murders and attacks. And this is just the beginning. I'm sure there's a lot more that's going to come out. Knowing these people the way I know them, they, they talk like this in their sleep, let alone, you know. So I think we're going to see a lot more of what's happening there. But the strategy right now is a how to take over the oil reserves and put to put in place some of the wealthiest Republican donors that to take control of the Venezuelan oil reserves, but to do it strategically where they're not going in full for and just bombarding Venezuela because they don't want to get into a war like we had, you know, what's it called, North Korea, I mean, Korea. They don't want another situation like that. Vietnam. Excuse me, I'm sorry, Vietnam. Because right now, because it's, it's not the same Maduro and it's not the same. And that's why I wrote my substack in 2019 when I was involved in those talks with Maduro, when there was the same Republican donors that were involved in pushing the, you know, to get Maduro out of there. Maduro was offering billions of barrels of oil in return for a soft landing. At that point, Bolton, John Bolton and Pompeo didn't agree with it and basically sent in the invasion, supported Guaido and we saw what transpired. The what happened though is Maduro 1 basically the invasion with the help of the Russians, with Wagner and the Russian forces that came and helped and basically Madero stayed in power. Since then, Maduro has joined forces, not only basically has better relationships with Russia through the shadow fleets and oil that he helps facilitate, but he's also become very close with China. We've seen that play out earlier this year when at in Russia when they had the military parade, Maduro was sitting there literally next to Chi and Putin smiling. My sources told me very importantly that China has also put in a lot of money investment into right now Venezuela and has have also signal to the U.S. telling him that they're not going to stand behind just an all out invasion into Venezuela. So Trump is trying to figure out the meeting today is how to strategically be able to get Maduro out there, still use it as a war because he needs to use this as an insurrection or some sort of a distraction for the midterms because he understands the slaughter is coming. So you know it has to combine and at the same time keep all the wealth, keep all the oil reserves that has in Republican donor hands. So those are the things that are on the agenda in today's meeting.

Joy Reid (36:39)

And by the way, just so you understand, this is Donald Trump who's obsessed with the idea that we should have taken the United States should have taken control of Iraq's oil. He's trying to do his own Iraq war basically. Right. I'm just going to read you all really quickly from the Independent. And this is why they are now in potentially some legal trouble over the way they're trying to the sort of casus belli for getting into war. They're pretending that they are in a so called war with these drug dealers who they're claiming are bringing drugs close to the United States border and that that is a cause for war, which it's not. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth reportedly gave a verbal order to leave no survivors behind as Donald Trump's administration launched a first of more lost the first of more than a dozen attacks attacks on alleged drug running boats that have killed more than 80 people over the last three months. On September 2, US military personnel fired a missile striking a vessel in the Caribbean sea that carried 11 people accused of trafficking drugs to the United States. When two survivors emerged from the wreckage, a special operations commander overseeing the attack ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth's instructions to kill everybody, according to the Washington Post, citing officials with direct knowledge of the operation. The two men were then blown apart in the water, per the report. News of Hegseth's alleged command follows intense legal scrutiny from internal investigators and members of Congress alleging that the Trump administration's deadly campaign amounts to illegal extrajudicial killings, which law of war experts citing the Independent cited. Speaking to the Independent sorry. Have labeled as outright murder and a war crime. Even Republicans are starting to agree. And here's the other issue. And I'll ask you about this, Lev, because it now seems like we've gotten the answer to why Admiral Alvin Halsey, who was overseeing the US Southern Command, which oversees military operations in Latin America. We've got his picture. His picture is B2. Why he suddenly quit. He informed Pete Hegseth that he's out of here at the end of the year. And at the time, people were like, ooh, why is that guy leaving then? Per the Intercept. People are angry about him leaving. Southcom were disillusioned by him leaving, and then he gets replaced by this other guy. And this is B3. This is the guy you, one of the people you, I think you might have named Frank. Admiral Frank. Rich Bradley. That's him. So is he in this war council? Because it seemed like he was willing to do the killing that Whiskey Pete ordered and that the black Admiral wasn't willing to do.

Lev Parnas (39:11)

Well, it's great. Interesting you say that because it looks like today where Caroline Levitt was throwing him under the bus, actually saying that it was the general that gave the order, not Pete Hegsec. So we have to, we have to take a look at that. You know, I didn't see it, but I, I think my son reported on it today. Yeah.

Joy Reid (39:33)

Admiral Bradley is to blame. Not.

Lev Parnas (39:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got to take a look at. Maybe have your people take a look at the Caroline Levitt today. What's it called, Press conference that she had. Yeah, press conferences. Yeah, yeah, but listen, that's how they work. I mean, that, I mean, if. And what do you think Hexagon is next on the list? Look at how Trump. I already saw the way Trump started distancing himself just in case, on the Air Force One yesterday by saying, oh, I don't, I don't know anything about this. Yeah. And I, I don't think he meant that or said that. But I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to show something to your viewers that very few people have seen. And, you know, because Trump tries to hide it. I published in my book here. But I want. It's a picture of what this is all about. Joy, give me one second. Let me just find this. One second here. Oh, here it is. So I don't know if you guys could see it right here.

Merck (40:39)

Okay.

Joy Reid (40:40)

Yep.

Lev Parnas (40:41)

This is. It's a contract. It's a contract with Venezuela State Paravesa. This is the actual contract for 2 billion barrels of oil that Maduro signed with A Republican donor that for our group back in 2019, which included Rudy Giuliani, Tom Hicks, who was the, you know, co chair of the gop, Pete Sessions, who was congressman at the time, and all others. It was a big group. And Donald Trump too. If we were to give him a soft landing, that was why I was on the phone. Me, Rudy and Pete Sessions had a phone call with Maduro trying. And after that, Maduro basically said, I would like if, if Trump allows me to move to Texas with my money and some of my people, I will allow him to hold the free elections. Giuliani, straight from the in Trump International Hotel, goes to the Oval. And when he walks in there, who's there? Pompeo and Bolton talking about Venezuela. And as soon as Rudy opens his mouth, Bolton literally flips and I welcome you to have both. And on them we both could talk because he writes in his book, basically he walks out and tells Rudy to go F himself because Rudy was trying to influence Trump to give Maduro soft landing at that time. And that's why you saw that rush and having that support behind Guaido and all that. So there's a lot more to this story. It's. And it's the same players that are involved right now. I'm actually working on some breaking news because some of these players, one of them is Rick Grinnell, who used to be, you know who Rick Grinnell is. He's behind it. He was also, if you take a look, behind when Trump just took office. The first thing Rick Grinnell did was be part of conversations with Venezuela, Maduro to release five U.S. prisoners.

Joy Reid (42:46)

Wow.

Lev Parnas (42:47)

On behalf of that, Trump allowed there to be more access, but there's a lot more joy to this than. And it's all behind the billions and billions of barrels of oil. Trillions, actually. I think, you know, you know, Venezuela has more oil reserves than the Saudi Arabia and America put together.

Joy Reid (43:05)

And the United States and Russia. I gotta take a break. Thank you very much. I appreciate you. Please come back with more reporting. We love it.

Lev Parnas (43:13)

Absolutely.

Merck (43:14)

Thank you, Jack.

Lev Parnas (43:15)

Happy.

Joy Reid (43:15)

Wow, wow, wow, wow. It's a rock all over again. It's all about oil. Let me take a really quick break and let you guys know the Joy Reid show is being brought to you tonight by 120Life. Now, I gotta tell you, we are on this journey, Jason and I, on our 120 live journey. Here is some of the powder version of it. It's actually really great. You can mix it in water, you can put it into, like juice. If you really want juice, but it's already really sweet. Like, like it's not super sweet, but it's like super juicy. But what's really great about it is that it's good for your health. And with my birthday coming up, I'm really prioritizing health, prioritizing wellness. And 120 life is a part of that journey because as we know, getting out of the 50s is like treacherous, right? If you can get out of the 50s, ask any rapper, you are probably in good shape and going to make it. And high blood pressure is one of those things that will not let you get to the 60s, you're clear if you can get to the 60s usually. And in this country right now, half of all adults, literally one out of two, have high blood pressure. And as we head into the holidays, add to that the meals, the heavy meals, the heavy fat, the travel, the stress, the family chaos, all of that. The chances are somebody that's going to be at your table's got that high blood pressure. Those high calories are not going to help. The heavy food you're eating is not going to help. So doing something, take one little step to do something good for your health. 120 Life is a great way to do it. It tastes great, it's refreshing. You can do it once a day. I do it in the mornings. It's a great tasting, functional drink. It's not a gimmick, it's not a pill, it's not something you have to take as an injection. It's just something that actually helps bring your blood pressure down and makes you feel great. Tastes good, not too much sugar, just one gram. And doctors trust it. More than a thousand health professionals have supported or endorsed the use of 120 life. It's a go to natural tool in the medical world. You can just grab a BP monitor, check your pressure, try it and then see if it works out for you. If you don't love it, they've got a great money back guarantee and it actually tastes great. It's a blend of juices. It's zero risk, all reward. If your blood pressure doesn't improve, you can send it back. No fine print, no hassle, no mess. Right now you're getting 20% off. If you want to try 120 Life, you want to join the 120 Life community. And all you have to do to get that is to put the code joy or the code ready in the little offer thingy when you get to the checkout. This holiday season, Christmas, New Year's, all of it. Listeners of the Joy Reid show, viewers and listeners of the Joy reach. I'll get 20% off your entire order at 120life.com with codes joy or reid. Use one of the two codes. One simple offer. This is your time to stock up. So make sure that you do it. Half this country has high blood pressure. You do not want to be the one who is failed by it. Just put Reid or Joy and into the little code section for 20% off and that's it. Very important to do. Thank you very much for that. So I want to now bring in the Merck. I believe he is standing by because the war sort of fever inside of the Trump regime does not stop with Venezuela. There's also what does appear to be an interest in going into Nigeria, what feels like a very disingenuous claim that they would actually like to save Nigerian Christians who are being persecuted. But Merck, it seems to me that Nigeria also has got a lot of oil. What do you think?

Merck (46:36)

Yes, we do have a lot of oil. But as, as you said, I think it's, this is the thing I told people. I said Christians had been getting attacked in Nigeria since, as far as I remember, 20 years ago. So it's been happening since 2005, 2004. So it's interesting that all of a sudden they're taking such an interest in this now as opposed to the past two decades. But I think that there's a lot of different reasons why it's happening. So it's sort of a confluence of things. And I think, you know, when I explain it to people, I said, look, it's not really about what you're looking at. It's, you sort of have to sort of take a step back and look at a more macro view of what is going on around Nigeria. Okay. So specifically, I don't know if, you know, your viewers are aware of what's been happening in Mali, Nigeria and Burkina Faso. So obviously there's there everybody knows who Captain Trore is because he's been the most popular. So he's the president of Burkina Faso. But those three countries had coups. So they've had coups from, I think, 2022, 23. Niger was 2023, Burkina Faso was 2022, and I think Mali was just before that. But they're fiercely anti the west, anti France, the US and so forth. So what happened was when Niger had their coup, for example, they kicked out the US troops from the military base Agadez, which was $110 million military drone hub that they used to monitor the whole Sahel. So I'll explain what the Sahel is a bit later. But the point is that that was a very, very important base for africomand, which is the anti terrorist security force for Africa that was established after the 9 11, 9112001 attacks. So when they did that, what they did at the same time is that they invited Putin and Russia. So Russian troops came while the US troops were actually still in the barracks. So that was done obviously to antagonize the us, because they were trying to get the US out. What ended up happening as well at the same time was most of the uranium that France uses, like 30% of their uranium for their power comes from Niger. And that got cut off at the same time. So basically the US's eyes on the entire Sahel was disconnected. They've lost influence in three of those countries while those three countries have become closer to China and to Russia. And that is a problem. So Nigeria happens to be bordered with Niger. And when Niger were having these issues, this was the Biden administration, they actually got Nigeria to sanction Niger. So they got sanctioned, they lost electricity, they had food shortages and everything. Because Nigeria happens to be the head of ecowas, which is the economic west, the western economic bloc of West Africa. So we, along with, I think it was Ivory Coast, Ghana and so forth, sanctioned them. So the points I'm making is that the way things stand now, America and France have to find a replacement. They have to. So Nigeria happens to be very, very nicely and strategically placed to replace what they've lost in terms of influence and control with Malinija and Burkina Faso. So all of a sudden Christians now matter. Now where they get these statistics from, There's a nonprofit called Open doors in the UK which do the monitoring. And they said that 223, basically the majority of Christians killed for their faith in the world in 2023 happened in Nigeria. So when you look at that statistic, it's very stark. You're looking like, oh my God, that's crazy in one country. But then you need to look, because statistics lie. Because if you believe statistics, the average person has I think one and a half legs or something like that. So the point is, at the same time that they were killing Christians, almost as many Muslims have been killed in Nigeria. So there's two places, I think it's Zamfara in Sokoto and Katsina. They're villages that were almost completely wiped out by these people. They don't talk about that. Because it upsets the narrative. So the point I'm making is that when you look at it for what it actually is, this is not specifically a Christian issue. It's a security issue that's affecting everybody in that region. I mean, I'll stop there because I don't want to keep going because there's obviously some details I could fill in in some other aspects. But if you have a question, I would answer absolutely.

Joy Reid (51:22)

I will. Just as an aside, note that there are a lot of Christians being persecuted and killed in Bethlehem in the occupied west bank, but the US doesn't seem to care about those Christians because they're Palestinian. That's me saying that, not you. But let's talk about who these belligerents are in Nigeria, because I always get the sense that whenever there's some mess going on on the continent, some Western power is behind the militias in this case. Is that the case in Nigeria?

Merck (51:53)

Well, the thing is this. And this is something that, you know, I know how you might feel about who I'm going to talk about now, but the most damaging president to Africa in recent memory happens to be Barack Obama because of one decision, one act, and that was what he did with Libya.

Joy Reid (52:16)

I knew you were going to say that. Killing Gaddafi.

Merck (52:18)

Yeah. So what got. You see, the thing is what people don't understand about Africa is that we don't really operate like Western nations. So Gaddafi, essentially, his presence, just him being there and the connections that he had, he was actually keeping a lid on so many factions and so many groups that that had their own desires and what they wanted, that the second he left or he was eliminated, it allowed an element to come into North Africa that had been controlled. It was exactly what happened with Iraq. And Saddam was saying the exact same thing because he was doing the same thing for them that he was, that Gaddafi was doing in Libya. So the problem was that you had psychopaths, criminals in people who were just essentially emboldened by the chaos. So what ended up happening is that when Gaddafi, Gaddafi got toppled, the question I usually ask people is, what do you think this was one of the richest countries in the world in terms of gold. What happened to all Gaddafi's gold? Where is it? What happened to all his jets, his weapons, his missiles, his bombs, his C4? What happened to all of those things? They exist somewhere, but a lot of them flowed south into the Sahel region. And you can actually juxtapose the fall of Gaddafi and the explosion of terrorism in the Sahel region. 2011, he falls. 2012, is when everything went nuts. So the problems that Mali, Burkina Faso, the northern part of Niger, Sudan, Chad, all of these countries have been facing since 2012 is a direct result of what Hillary Clinton and Obama and NATO and Sarkozy, who's now going to prison, did, literally. So it's ironic that they will then turn around and say, okay, look, we're now the solution to the problem that we caused.

Joy Reid (54:11)

Right.

Merck (54:12)

And that is where most of these weapons actually came from. But the question I would usually ask people is that, listen, when you think about a terrorist, a terrorist has demands. He says, look, we want this, and if you don't give us this, we will terrorize you and we'll attack you. What are the demands of Boko Hara? What are the demands of any of these terrorists in Nigeria? Like, what is it that you're actually trying to do? That's because terrorism in the Sahel is a business model. It's the mafia. Mafia. There are reports which are actually documented that these people are collecting payments, like taxes for protection. You don't do that if it's not essentially a pseudo government, which is what they're operating. So they don't have any interest in resolving an issue because they make money from the issue. So the points I'm making is that this has been going on for all these two decades, and America, France, so forth, they don't care. And the reason being is that within chaos, it's much easier to exploit. Smuggling gold out of that region is easy. When it's in chaos, you don't have to deal with red tape. You don't have to pretend to be dealing with a government if the place is being run by a militia, like you can see in what's happening in Congo and so forth, that's the reason why they don't want to resolve that. You deal with somebody who's a militia leader, you pay him off, he gives you what you need, and you move on. Yeah, so that's. That's sort of the reason for.

Joy Reid (55:44)

In my view, anyway, friends of mine on the continent will say to me, look, we actually appreciate dealing with Trump because he doesn't pretend to be some bringer of democracy. He's just a gangster. And we know how to deal with gangsters. He kind of is similar to, like, an IDI Amin, you know what I mean? He's a Mobutu type of leader, and we know what to do. Pay him. You pay him, you give him money, and he's pliant, and that's a lot simpler to deal with. Than the moralizing type of usual American president. Do you concur with that, or do you hear that often a lot?

Merck (56:18)

No, I do. I do. I do agree with that. But also, you've got to understand that I'm a bit cynical when it comes to these things. And I don't believe this is Trump per se. I think Trump is a convenient idiot, so to speak. You know, it's like they knew what they. Whoever isn't doing this knows that this is what we need to do. Show him these videos and show him these things. We know how he'll react to that, and through that, we'll be able to get done what we need to get done. So from what I heard, he got shown these videos and he reacted exactly the way they expected him to react. Oh, we've got to go and save the Christians. The reality is that, look, Ted Cruz has been campaigning for Nigeria to be sanctioned for years because he was. He's extremely pro Israel. He's pro all the stuff that's going on in Gaza and so forth. You've heard what he said about the Bible and the fact that we're defending. He was quoting Genesis and all this sort of stuff. So Ted Cruz has a particular perspective. There's an aspect of this that you would not know about and most of the viewers would not know about. And this is connected to the Nigerian civil war. Nigeria isn't a real country. Nigeria is a corporation that was set up by the British. That's the reality of it. It's a collection of all these tribes and all these things mashed together to provide resources, palm oil and so forth, for the British government through Unilever, which is actually still operating in Nigeria. The thing is, when the civil war happened, there was a country called Biafra. Now, Biafra was the Igbos and the east who were trying to secede. It's a separatist movement to secede from the union. There is an organization called the Brgie, which is the Biafra government in Egypt exile, which has a prime minister, I think his name is Ogechuku Nkere or something, working with a guy called Elias Jarasulis. You can find him. He's on X on Twitter and so forth. They've been campaigning and lobbying in Washington and out in the US to have Nigeria sanctioned. And for the US to go into Nigeria. They've offered the. They have a document that you can read. They've offered the US Government Trump a military base in Nigeria, reign for the CIA to operate in Nigeria. A Counterterrorism agreement and mining deals. This is literally akin to, like, the 1800s colonial deals that we signed. Like, literally. And they're doing that because. And when you see a deal like that offered to the US Government, what do you think they're getting in return? So it's like, when you see what's happening now with this push for Trump to go into Nigeria, there's so many forces involved. Because it would be so beneficial for him to do that, because it would be the sort of match that lights the collapse of Nigeria as a union. Because the second that that happens, what's going to happen? They go into Nigeria, they're supporting the Christians. What do you think the Northern Muslims are going to think? You're against us.

Joy Reid (59:26)

Right.

Merck (59:27)

Russia comes in and Russia says, okay, look, we'll support you against these Christians who are attacking you with the support of America, which is what they're doing in Israel and Palestine. Then all of a sudden, China get involved. Before you know it, you have a proxy war in Nigeria, and Nigeria falls apart. When Nigeria falls apart, Britain gets involved, France gets involved, everybody goes in there. And then the Sahel alliance of Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso, so they can't defend themselves against that. And then all of a sudden, everything gets taken back into control.

Joy Reid (59:59)

And the end goal is always the same control of Africa's resources in the hands of the West. It never changes. Nothing ever changes.

Merck (60:09)

It is going to be that way. I mean, I think the biggest problem that you have with this situation now is just the ignorance of the details of what is actually going on. On. You know, it's not an accident that America needs to clean up its image based on what is happening in Gaza. This is a perfect opportunity for them to do that by saying you're defending Christians. There are only two ways that a US Government can go in and invade or take over a nation. A hostile takeover. One is national security. Pearl harbor is an example of that. So that they were able to get into World War II, 9, 11, they were able to go into Iraq, bomb Iraq, Baghdad, and take out Saddam Hussein. The second thing you can do is align yourself with a downtrodden people within that community and say that you're going to support them liberating themselves, which is what happened with Libya in 2011 and what happened with Somalia in 1992. That's exactly what. And that is the way you sell it to the Americans. So I'll sell this to your audience. America needs you to support them in doing this because they need the moral high ground in order to go into Nigeria. That is what separates America from China and Russia in terms of geopolitics. The ability to say we are the good guys and we're doing this because the people mandates us to do it. The only way you can do that is that you've got to run a PR campaign, which is what they're doing now. So once you drum up enough support that this is about Christians, you get people like Nicki Minaj going to the UN to do speeches on behalf of her pastor. And once you can get black America, for example, based on the Christian elements of this. Because think about it. Can you imagine the optics of America going into a black African country to bomb them in 2025? You can't do that anymore. So the only way is that it's got to be a Christian thing.

Nalini Stamp (62:05)

It.

Merck (62:06)

It's got to be religious, which is what I tell people. I'm like, that is why this is happening, is that you've got to do it at different. You can't do the Arab thing. It's not going to work.

Joy Reid (62:18)

Yeah. And by the way, you will be quickly reminded and Jason, if you can tee up C1 that it's definitely not to defend Africans, because here is the way Donald Trump speaks about African immigrants in America when it's not even anything to do with them.

Merck (62:34)

Oh, I know what you're going to play.

Joy Reid (62:36)

Yep.

Donald Trump (62:37)

I'm sure you people are criminals. Many of these people are people that shouldn't be here. And many of them have been gotten out. I mean, we've gotten out. Some. A lot of the people that, you know, we've taken a lot of matter here.

Joy Reid (62:48)

But many.

Donald Trump (62:48)

But they came in.

Lev Parnas (62:50)

Right?

Donald Trump (62:50)

Yeah, I know this deal. Sorry. Many are wonderful.

Merck (62:52)

Yeah.

Joy Reid (62:52)

I'm sure I said many are here legally, though. What should they think in terms of their possible.

Donald Trump (62:56)

Well, they came. They can't be happy. Okay. They can't be happy because what's taking place between that. If you look at Somalia, they're taking over Minnesota and they are. We got a lot of problems with the gangs, with all of the things taking place in Minnesota. We have an incompetent governor. Dope. We have a dope governor. They can't be happy about what's going on. And if you talk about the app, Afghans, you know, there's a problem because so many bad ones came in on the planes. They just walked on. Whoever the strongest people were physically, in a way, but whoever the strongest. They got on the planes. There was no check in. They just swamped the planes. They took off. We had no idea who, though. Who they were. Yeah. Do you want to ask a question behind me.

Merck (63:44)

Hi, sir.

Donald Trump (63:44)

Happy to ask you.

Joy Reid (63:45)

Hi. What do the Somalians have to do with this Afghan guy who shot the national? Nothing.

Donald Trump (63:50)

But Somalians have caused a lot of trouble. They're ripping us off for a lot of money. There's a tremendous amount of money going back to Somalia. What the hell are we paying money to Somalia for? But they're ripping off our country at a level that few people have been able to see before. That's about the only thing you talk about, competence. We have Ilhan Omar, who does nothing but complain about our country and our country Constitution.

Joy Reid (64:15)

Okay.

Donald Trump (64:15)

She comes from a country with practice.

Joy Reid (64:17)

Yeah. He goes on about some. It's. It's Somalis, Donald. So, I mean, obviously, there's not a lot of concern in our government about African people.

Merck (64:30)

No, no, no. Look, I. I think it's easy. It's easy targets because, you know, you don't really have any defense. So he says something like that. Who's defending Somalians? You know, it's like. It's just. But I think that that rhetoric is very important because it continues to just set a foundation. So when you do act, people are already fed up with a particular demographic of people because they've been doing strikes in Somalia for years. And it's actually the reason why African Stream got taken down, because they reported on that, and when they reported on it, you know, the last administration then said they were working with Russia, and they've. They've been wiped off the Internet. So things like that, it's like, you know, you hear all of these stories, and I keep trying to explain to people that, look, most of the stuff you see is for show. Like, this is. This is really just a. It's a. It's a performance. And the lead actor is the President of the United States. Like, he's the lead actor. When you start looking behind the scenes and start seeing. Seeing what's actually really going on, it becomes clear to you that you actually have more power than you think you have to actually affect change the more educated you are. Which is why I'm so focused on everything I do with African history and context. It's like, I. Can I tell you this information, the very concept. And this is even deeper than you might imagine. What the Sahel represents, for example, is much bigger than what. It's not just about oil and minerals. This is cultural. You see, the Sahel region is the border between Sub Saharan Africa and the north part of Africa. The idea of sub Saharan Africa is actually a white supremacist racist concept. It doesn't make any sense. There is nowhere else in the world that a desert splits a continent whereby you then call half the continent something else from the. It's ridiculous.

Joy Reid (66:25)

Well, I mean they started with taking Eurasia and pretending Europe is its own continent, but go on.

Merck (66:30)

Yeah, no, they, the Suez Canal, even that in and of itself. Like when they broke off the Middle east from, from Africa, that was Africa. All the Middle east was North Africa. But the point is that, you know, they don't want Africa to unite itself. It's essential that you control that border because if you allow the Sahel to now become its own self determining place, the next thing you know they're going to start figuring out what their, their real history is, is what Nubia used to be, what Sudan really is. Then they're going to start allying with Algeria because Algeria don't like France anyway. Then the last thing you need is a domino effect where generation after generation, these Africans start saying, hey, you know, we actually have more in common than we thought we did. How about we start working together? The way it is now, it is two different continents. So I always say is that look, that border itself is more significant than just the minerals under the ground. It is actually strategic politically that the west is able to control that and not allow it to fall into the hands of, especially not into the hands of black Africans.

Joy Reid (67:40)

That in my opinion anyway, that is, that's a mic. Drop the Merck. Please tell us, Merck, how do people get more of what you are doing? And by the way, you're right, when African Stream went away, I went oh. Because they also used to talk a lot, a lot about how Gaddafi is seen as the devil in the west, but that his idea of uniting Africa was something that goes all the way back to Kwame and Kruma and that everybody who's tried to propose uniting the continent has wound up DOA or deposed. And I don't think that helped them either. But please tell us how to get more content from you.

Merck (68:14)

Oh yes. So what I'm doing now, well my substack so you can get there with@www.alcableand.com hopefully I'll just put it, maybe put in the comments so people can find it easily. And what I am doing now, which is actually a big thing so once you get on that substack is I'm actually, I'm actually creating a book called the True History of Africa. Nigeria edition. But I'm going to chronicle the history of all African countries from sort of the beginning of time to the present day. And I'm doing that in multiple formats like ebook, print, book, audiobook, just to give people the context that they need so that when we see these things happening, we understand what they mean and where they're coming from. So that is something I want people to know about and support. So my substack is probably the easiest way to, to get in touch with me.

Joy Reid (69:01)

And we're going to put that in the description of this program so that everybody can get more of you. Please come back often, my friend. Thank you so much.

Merck (69:09)

Thank you.

Joy Reid (69:10)

Thank you. The mark. Yeah, every time he comes on, we get so many great comments that he really, really explains it real. I mean, the unders. The idea of trying to pretend that there's a North Africa and a sub Saharan Africa, it makes as much sense as saying that one big blob of a continent is Europe and Asia and not Eurasia. There's a reason there's a thing called Eura. It's one big continent. What separates the two? Is there a body of water between them? No. All right, let's go on to the next thing. We spoke about Israel a little bit. Guess who wants a pardon. Bibi. Bibi. Netanyahu wants a pardon. Let me read the CNN story. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu formally requested a pardon in his long running corruption trial, arguing that it is in the public interest to pardon him. In a letter expressed addressed to the President of Israel, Isaac Herzog, Netanyahu wrote that his trial has become a focal point, a fierce controversy for which he bears broad public and more responsibility. With an understanding of the overall ramifications of these events. Netanyahu said that it was in his personal interest to prove his innocence in the ongoing trial, but the public interest dictates otherwise. The letter was dated Thursday, but submitted and publicized on Sunday. As Israeli head of state Herzog has the sole mandate to issue pardons. His office confirmed it had received the request and that Herzog would consider it with great care. Responsibility. Lovely. Given that Netanyahu has now talked multiple American presidents into stupid wars, hello Bush and Iraq. He got Trump to literally bomb Iran, which is something he wanted three presidents to do. He's also, through his friendship, helped to ensure that we'd wind up with his pal Trump back in office by soiling the Biden administration with a genocide with VP Kamala Harris, which VP Kamala Harris could not get out from under during her campaign. And during that campaign, I covered the uncommitted movement. And I can tell you from direct reporting that the uncommitted folks who voted uncommitted in the primaries, they went to the DNC convention despite Bibi Netanyahu and the genocide and the horrors taking place in Gaza. And some of them are Palestinian American themselves. But they went to the DNC Convention prepared to become committed by endorsing VP Harris. All that they wanted for that endorsement was to put a Palestinian speaker on stage, which never happened, as we all know. And in the negotiations, the name that came up that floated to the top of the list for who the uncommitted folks wanted to see get on that stage and speak was Georgia State Representative Rua Roman. I'm going to play you a video if Jason can tee up D1. This is a video of her doing an interview on that subject last year. The DNC platform.

Nalini Stamp (71:55)

A Palestinian or a Palestinian voice.

Joy Reid (71:57)

When people who don't know a lot about the movement feel like, well, there's a certain group of people who might not even vote for Kamala Harris anyway. Right. So why would the DNC even platform that? So you. Of course, we know that's not accurate, but that's a sentiment that's out there.

Rua Roman (72:09)

Yeah, I actually think they got it a little backwards. The entire point of the uncommitted movement was twofold. One, keep people engaged who are going to be completely disaffected and give up and lose hope and never show up again. And so we try to keep them engaged. And the other piece is to apply pressure to Democrats to bridge the gap between them and voters so that voters can feel comfortable trying out to vote for them.

Joy Reid (72:28)

It's not.

Rua Roman (72:28)

We're not meant to be party poopers. We love the vibes. We're so glad we now have a much better chance come November. But the thing is, this is going to keep coming up because people are still watching innocent people being massacred by bombs that have a flag on them. And the reality is that there's nobody that wants Trump to win more than Netanyahu. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to say, look, this is a fear and this is a threat for our chances come November. We want to make sure people recognize that. And we recognize, like, we have been trying to push for policy. Right. And things are chaotic.

Joy Reid (72:56)

It is what it is.

Rua Roman (72:56)

Those policy asks are still the same. When we talked about ceasefire, you've got to work for that ceasefire. You have to implement conditions to force that ceasefire. But we get that's not always possible. Right? So the other piece of it was the bare minimalist, a symbolic piece. And, you know, the DNC was negotiating with uncommitted. From my understanding, like, my name didn't come up until the very end when they gave them so many different names, so many different people. And finally they were like, there's an elective from the swing state. Like, please, like, that's our Hail Mary. And we actually got really excited when we saw the parents of Israeli hostages on the DNC stage because we thought, oh, my God, it's happening. Like, you know, they're taking this big tent seriously. We're going to see some, like, we're going to see some movement on it. And unfortunately, that's ended up not what was happening because two hours later, we got the call that there would not be any slots for a Palestinian speaker. After negotiating for weeks, they told us they're like, as long as there's not a no, that's a really good sign. And so when you're not getting a no for three days, you're thinking, oh, we're gonna get into it. So it was just like, really disappointing. And I think the last stop on the face and what really did me in last night was, you know, you and I from Georgia. Jeff Duncan was our lieutenant governor.

Lev Parnas (73:59)

Governor.

Rua Roman (74:00)

And he, like, one of the last bills he ever passed was a super bad anti trans bill. He oversaw the criminalization of abortions. And so, you know, that's kind of where we come from is the fact that if we can. If our tech can be that big, why can't it include literally a singular stupid.

Joy Reid (74:16)

Right. Exactly. Thank you so much and fast forward to today. And Representative Ramon is now running for governor of Georgia. Take a look at her ad.

Rua Roman (74:28)

Corrupt politicians, a rigged economy. It's untenable. My name is Roha Roman, and I'm running for governor of Georgia because it's time for a new direction, one that puts Georgians first. My dad's a farmer in Elberton, Georgia. I grew up in Forsyth county and graduated from South Forsyth High School, for goodness sake. My first job out of college was at the center for Civil and Human Rights, where I got to learn how to organize with incredible legends like the late John Lewis. Now I have the honor of representing tens of thousands of Georgians in the State House. I'm as Georgia as we come. I'm also the granddaughter of Palestinian refugees. My family lost everything and had to rebuild from nothing. My family's history and the skills taught to Me by civil rights heroes made me never back down from a fight. We already know the attacks that will come. It's the same ones that Republicans have used to distract us for 20 years.

Joy Reid (75:25)

And they've closed our hospitals.

Lev Parnas (75:27)

They kept the minimum wage at just 515 an hour.

Nalini Stamp (75:29)

They left us behind, stripped away our freedoms.

Rua Roman (75:33)

Here's the secret they don't want us to know. It doesn't have to be this way. Everything we're seeing is a choice that is being made to put us last. I will use every tool at my disposal as governor to raise the minimum wage, to feed hungry kids, to reopen hospitals, to take homes back from corporations, and to invest in small businesses. Georgia belongs to all of us, not just corporations and special interests. There will be those who doubt we can do it, but I know there's way more of us than them. We will build a movement. One door, one condo conversation, one person at a time. Together we can change leadership in our state. The future is uncertain, but right now is the easiest time to be brave. We owe it to everyone that's come before us and everyone that'll come after us to build for a better future together.

Joy Reid (76:34)

If he were to win the governor's race, she would become one of a tiny handful of Muslim politicians elected in this country. We just saw the lieutenant governor elected in the state of Virginia. In the United States Congress, there are exactly four Muslim members. There's Keith Ellis. Oh, there's formerly Keith Ellis. There's only three now. Keith Ellison was a member of Congress. Andre Carson is still in Congress. They're trying to actually redistrict his seat out of office and make it disappear. Proof. In Indiana, Ilhan Omar, who is the only hijabi member of the political establishment that I've heard of and probably ever. Rashida Tlaib, of course, who's constantly being attacked by the right as a member of Congress, and Latifah Simon of California. So we're not talking about a lot of people. So it'd be a groundbreaking win, particularly in the state of Georgia that has not exactly been enthusiastic about electing women. We saw Stacey Abrams come very, very close to becoming governor there. So it's a long shot by any means because of all of the things. But we're in this weird moment where finally the Palestinian people are being seen. They're actually visible. The idea of trying to do anti Muslim hate, like, as a strategy did not work with the other Muslim elected official in the biggest mayoral race in America, which is, of course, New York City. It didn't work. Zorhan Mamdani didn't just win. He, like, won by a lot. So we're gonna, we're gonna do a quick sponsor note because we have a really great sponsor for this segment of the Joy Reid Show. But when we come back, we are actually going to speak with State Representative Roman. But before we get to that, I want to let you all know that, you know, this is a country where we're actually, while I'm talking about the religious backgrounds of members of Congress, the whole idea is that that is supposed to not matter. People are supposed to be elected based on what they're offering, what their offer is not based on their religion. And we're still struggling to get to the point where people set aside religion and just vote for the person. And the Freedom from Religion foundation has been at the forefront of trying to do that, to officially make it so that our country is based on what you're offering as a political leader, what your offer is to the people and not your religion. And, and to allow people to push that aside and even more so, there's one thing that this year's made clear. The battle is even bigger. The fight for the soul of our democracy also depends on trying to get religion, particularly a specific brand of Christianity, out of our policy, out of our policy. And we are right on the heels of December 15, which is Bill of Rights Day. And while we're approaching that, I just want you to think about this. The very first right that's listed in our Constitution, the one that kicks off the entire Bill of Rights rights, is the right to freedom from government imposed religion. The opposite is happening right now. Christian nationalism is literally making a serious power play in the courts, in our classrooms, and in the Capitol, where you have members of Congress saying that someone, simply because they are Muslim, really shouldn't even be able to be in Congress. It's a strange world we're living in, but Christian nationalism is trying to drag us backward to rewrite the Constitution and silence voices of reason. So I am very happy and very proud to tell you that the Freedom From Religion foundation, our sponsor, is an organization that has been fortifying the wall between church and State since 1978, since the 70s. They will defend your right in courtrooms on Capitol Hill and in communities across this country, especially for those who are non religious, free thinkers, whether you're religious or not, or who just want to keep faith out of politics. And right now, between now and December 9th, which is actually the six month birthday of the Joy Reid Show, Freedom from Religion foundation is offering 20% off all secular merch so you can wear your values and raise your voice. It's a bold offer. Two new memberships for the price of one. So become a member and give the gift of membership to a fellow free thinker. It is the perfect way to bring someone that you love into the fight or freedom. These aren't holiday stocking stuffers by the way. They are tools for resistance. So visit FFRF US Shop and text my first name Joy to 511511 by December 9th, the birthday of the Joy Reid Show. You can claim the offer and join the movement by Texting JOY to 511511 or by going to FFRF US shop. And again, the text JOY to 511511 because protecting the Constitution ain't seasonal, it's essential message and data rate will apply. So I'm really excited by our next guest because she is somebody who could be an absolute, absolute groundbreaker if she is able to win her fight to become the next governor of Georgia. Representative Rua Roman joins me now. There she is. Hi.

Rua Roman (81:29)

It's so good to see you. Thank you so much for having me.

Joy Reid (81:31)

Oh, it is wonderful, wonderful to see you. First of all, I just have to ask how you're doing because we've just seen yet another wave of anti Muslim, you know, hate just wash over the country after what happened in D.C. so just want to make sure that you're okay, your family is okay.

Rua Roman (81:50)

Thank you. That's really, really kind of you. And yes, absolutely, we're doing great and I think we have been prepared for this. We are ready for this. And I meant what I said when I said now is the time to be brave and we need to be showing what that looks like.

Joy Reid (82:02)

And so tell me, if, if when you saw the victories in Virginia with Lieutenant Governor and also obviously in New York City with Zohan Mamdani, did that make you say, wait a minute, this is not like a crazy run from the far out world where I can't win. I can win this thing.

Rua Roman (82:20)

You know, we've actually been saying that before those wins and we were able to then turn around and say, look, we told y', all we've been saying this for a while, that at the end of the day, voters are desperate for people to fight for them regardless of their religion, their creed, their skin color. Yes, these things do exist on a systemic level. And at the same time, for every single one of those people that we lose, we win back three more with our sort of People centered values and policies.

Joy Reid (82:45)

And so tell me. Well, I have to ask you this because, you know, I think it's just the reality. I mean, we've seen Hindu, you know, politicians on the right just get torn apart by their own base. You know, I watched Vivek Ramaswamy out there trying to run for governor in Ohio, and the worst hate he's getting is from his own people. And so if they would attack their own, who believes in all of their right wing values, I can only imagine that you're getting some attacks. How has it been for you so far?

Rua Roman (83:17)

I mean, look, Laura Loomer found us on day two of this campaign, so we expected it after a month. But there, there she was in my, in my mentions on day two. And look, there was definitely a lot of fear because at the end of the day, these do come with death threats. They do come with sort of a lot of logistics you have to deal with. And in fact, she had doxed a forum of Muslim candidates in Georgia. And so, you know, the organizers were kind of new to this. They really were excited about it. They put the address on there. And so they ended up moving the location for security reasons. I went to the original location because we heard there was going to be a protest. And I'm the kind of person who deeply believes in talking to people directly rather than just running away and shying away from that conversation. And only two people showed up. And I think at the end of the day it's really important. And I want to be clear, one person can do a lot of damage. I'm not trying to discount the risks, but I also think that we have lost the art of talking to people who disagree with us. And I grew up in Forsyth County. I graduated from same high school as Marjorie Taylor Greene. And the most important lesson I ever learned in my life was to identify who is militantly hateful. People you're never going to win over. But there are people who are just genuinely ignorant and who share our values. And when you talk to them and speak to them, they really do come around.

Joy Reid (84:31)

Okay, you just buried the lead there. You went to the same high school as Marjorie Taylor Greene. What do, what are they saying about her? What are they saying?

Rua Roman (84:41)

She's not really a topic of conversation during high school reunions, I will say that. But it actually, to me is a deep example of sort of the potential paths that Georgia can take. One that really puts people first and one that just whatever it is she's doing these days, so.

Joy Reid (84:58)

Well, no, she's putting People first. She's putting Marjorie Taylor Greene first. A $25 million in tiller on her way out. She's just like cha Ching. So she put somebody first. It's just not the rest of us. And the rest. What do you want to do as governor? What would you give me? What your first 100 day plan would be? What would you.

Rua Roman (85:17)

In Georgia, the governor gets to do and assign what's called floor leaders, and they can introduce legislation on the governor's behalf. And we have five planks. And so for us, it's going to be a piece of legislation, if not more for each of them. And that is feed hungry kids, raise the minimum wage, invest in small businesses, take homes back from corporations, and reopen hospitals. And within those are sort of the exact policy mechanisms that of how we get there. A lot of people like to ask how. But literally on day one as governor, those are things that we can start working on immediately. And even. And again, I already can hear the doubters going, well, you're going to have a Republican legislature. First off, we don't know that because I want to be clear. Our house is flippable. We're only 11 seats away. But secondly, we actually have Republicans that want a lot of these policies. Medicaid expansion. Republicans want it raising minimum wage. I know Republican colleagues that want it feeding hungry kids. The only way we even got it through was because of Republican support the first time around. And then the governor in 2023, Line Item vetoed $6 million in a $52 billion budget to feed hungry kids, and then three months later spent $10 million to buy Israeli bonds. And so for us, it's, the governor is really powerful in Georgia. There's a lot that the person can do in that office. And we intend to. To me, it's like, what's the point of government if you're not using every lever to make life better for people?

Joy Reid (86:33)

Yeah, there are a couple things that happened in Georgia that obviously made national news in terms of, you know, what they did in terms of the people there. I want to go through two of them. Well, three of them. The first one is, you know, Stacey Abrams, of course, was just out there registering voters like crazy. And as fast as she was registering them, Brian Kemp, when he was secretary of state, we're removing them from the rolls. He then went, as governor, signed in a voting law that makes it unlawful to give water to people standing in those long, long, long lines in places like Fulton County. What would you do as governor regarding the access to the ballot in the.

Rua Roman (87:08)

State of Georgia, first and foremost, I would veto any piece of legislation that comes to my desk that attempts to curtail access to the ballot box. The vote is sacred. It is one that everyone should have access to. And my, my argument to my colleagues is, I'm just asking you to regulate voting the way you're regulating gun safety at this point. I mean, clearly, we have so much more, and it is the First Amendment, not the Second Amendment, that we need to be worried about. But secondly, you know, as governor, we can work with the Secretary of State's office to figure out what sort of hindrances there are that exist and work at it from an executive perspective rather than legislative perspective. And again, I want to be clear, a lot of these laws impact Republicans, too. I saw what happened when they were changing precincts last minute, did not inform their people. And then we were like, I saw election workers. I was doing election monitoring back in 2022, and I saw people getting turned away because they never got their new precinct information. And so they're actually also disenfranchising their own voters when they do this kind of stuff. And so as governor, you can veto legislation, you can push for better policy on an executive level and sort of work with our colleagues on a legislative level on changing that. And look, there's a reason that we're recruiting volunteers the way that we are. Our campaign had a goal of 5,000 volunteers signed up by May. We're already at over a thousand. We've trained over 100 field leads. And the reason is that these folks are going to keep putting hurdles in front of us. They are going to put every possible mechanism to stop our movement, and our job is to outwork them. And that's what we intend to do.

Joy Reid (88:36)

In the state of Georgia. Along those similar lines, a judge has now thrown out the case against a bunch of. It was a case that Fani Willis brought as a RICO case, where about 18, 19 different people in the state of Georgia were plotting to have fake electors pretend to be the real electors in the state of Georgia. Where, of course, Donald Trump called in and told on himself, asked the then governor and the state secretary of state to find him 11,000 some odd votes. Fani Willis was driven off that case, I would personally say, for some really stupid reasons. But now the case has been thrown out in the state of Georgia. Is it now effectively legal to pretend to be a federal elector?

Rua Roman (89:18)

So I want to be clear that we are not setting that precedent. I will not agree to that framing because we're not going to give that to them. At the end of the day, they use technicalities to their benefit. And it's once again an indicator of how our justice system is actually two different systems. One system for those with money, power and resources and another for those that have none, who language in prisons because they can't afford bail on charges that even if they were convicted of them would never spend a day in jail. And so for us it's how do we work with existing stakeholders to reimagine our justice system? Because I want to be clear, again, Republicans did this. And so for us it's they just keep taking away even their best own ideas. And so at this point I'm tired of the back and forth time to end that 22 year Republican rule. The other thing I want to say about the money, power, influence and access as it relates to our justice system is that again we had the lieutenant governor, current lieutenant governor Burt Jones, use his own private jet to do what he was able to do. And so what I like to remind folks is that when we talk about a people centered campaign, when we talk about putting people over corporations and we talk about replacing who's in power, this is what we're talking about. It's not about sort of replacing the R next to their name with a D and then calling it a day. It's about making sure that those who are in power are not able to just do it for their own personal benefit. And that when we work on our justice system, that is the thing that we're working on. And here's the last thing I will say. Georgia continues to have an exception in our Constitution, meaning we still allow for essentially legalized slavery in our legal system. So that when somebody is sent to jail they can be made to work for no money and compensation at all. That is a bill that I have drafted that is ready to go that is looking for co sponsors to be able to submit and actually vote on tomorrow. We could do that literally on the first day of session and end the exception and change our constitution. And so there is a lot we can do on that front. And I think this was a high profile case, but this happens every day in Georgia.

Joy Reid (91:09)

What about this six week abortion ban? Because you know, Hollywood has come to Georgia. You've got lots of studios. Tyler Perry's got a giant studio there. But one of the things people really are thinking about, whether they're doing Hollywood stuff there or they're going to college is there. Georgia is a six week abortion ban state. That's not exactly attractive to corporations or to women who might want to work in your state. Do you believe that that ban should remain or do you think it should be overturned?

Rua Roman (91:34)

No, of course not. It needs to be overturned. And again, that is going to be one of those pieces of legislation that we support on day one and push on day one. And that legislation exists. I'm already a co sponsor on the Repro Act. There has already been work being done to repeal sort of these draconian pieces of legislation. And unfortunately, in Georgia, we have one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the country. And the statistic that keeps me up at night is the fact that 90% of those deaths are preventable. I want to repeat that. 90% of deaths. A child that lost their mother, a husband that lost a wife, people who've lost a child. Every 90% of those cases are preventable. And so at the end of the day, what we are seeing is a choice being made from not expanding Medicaid to having this bill on our books. And it needs to be changed. And at the end of the day, when you have a legislator that is going to the governor's mansion, the benefit is we know where the coalitions are. We know where the unlikely allies are. It's just give us a chance. I always tell people, Georgia will surprise you. We have one of the youngest population distributions in the country. We are a majority minority state. We just flipped two statewide seats by 26 points. And it's because we leaned into to our coalition, the coalition that is desperate for representation. If we just do that next year, not only do I think that we can flip the governor's mansion, potentially the state legislature, but also mobilize those coalitions and repeal these draconian bills.

Joy Reid (92:52)

This is an indelicate question, but we saw. I covered the Stacey Abrams race, and she lost by a little bit. But it definitely felt like there was some shenanigans in terms of not letting people vote who wanted to vote for her, not letting their voter registration stand. But the other piece of it was, she's a woman. And we've seen a reluctance in the state of Georgia, at least what it appears, to elect a woman of any race or background. How do you get past that? Because even some women look at a woman candidate for statewide or federal office and go, yeah, no, that should be a man's job.

Rua Roman (93:25)

Well, we actually know that's not true because there are, I think, 13 or 11 states in the, in the country that have female governors, both Republican and Democratic governors. And, you know, we see governors like in Michigan, now Virginia, that are female governors that have won their races. And I want to be clear, in 2018, what Stacy had to do was build infrastructure that doesn't exist. She had to build her own infrastructure statewide, run against this sort of good old boys club that even Marjorie Taylor Greene, speaking of herself, has talked about. And she came so close in 2022, she was running against an incumbent and lost by the smallest margin. I want to be clear, a loss is a loss. We're not here for moral victories. We're here to actually win. And what I tell folks is if they just support our campaign, support us financially, we'll do the work. We will make sure the volunteers turn out. We will make sure that we flipperstate adore a conversation, a person at a time. And I firmly believe that if we can replicate those best practices from 2018, we're not just gonna get close. We're going to win.

Joy Reid (94:24)

I have to ask you this question because I asked Kamala Harris about this and about the. In the block before you came on, I talked about the undecided, the uncommitted, I should say, and the fact that at least per my reporting and speaking with some of the uncommitted folks at the dnc, they were willing to commit. They just wanted a speaker on the dais. You were the speaker that was agreed upon by the group, and it was very disparate group of activists, but they agreed on you. You didn't get a chance to speak. Two questions. Question number one. What would you have wanted to say from that stage? And then question number two. Has anybody from the Kamala Harris campaign, from that world indicated to you that they regret not putting you on the stage? She would not commit to saying she regretted it when I interviewed her. But has anyone communicated that to you?

Rua Roman (95:09)

To this day, not a single person from that campaign has directly reached out to me and spoken to me. So no.

Joy Reid (95:14)

And spoken with anyone from the campaign? Nope.

Rua Roman (95:17)

It was always through. Some of the uncommitted folks were talking to folks in the campaign. But other than that, no one has ever picked up a phone call and directly spoken to me and said, hey, this is why this happened. But, you know, let me. This is actually like, I'm really glad you asked about this, because this is something that I've heard, particularly from black voters in our primary that have said, well, what about the uncommitted movement? What about these people? Et cetera, et cetera. And the problem is that uncommitted was a process by Democrats. For Democrats, it was A primary focus campaign to get through the spin and put up the alarm bells that we were going to lose if we stayed on the path that we were on, whether it was related to Gaza or the economy or just people were desperate for a new direction and a fight. And once we came into the general uncommitted, as you said, wanted to commit, they sat with campaign folks, they negotiated with them. Initially it was we wanted policy sort of concessions and the campaign said absolutely not. And then it became give us something symbolic, something to give back to people who are so angry, who, by the way, have either lost family members or knew somebody who lost family members. And this I know for a fact because I've seen it written in other places. The response the uncommitted leaders received was that we don't need these voters to win because we are just going to shore up our numbers among white suburban women and it is going to be fine. And we don't want to be right. We actually said to them, we said we hope we are wrong, but we are telling you as people who have been organizing and door knocking for more than a decade, this is what we're hearing and seeing on the ground. And this is a great segue because right now we have a lot of people pushing Jeff Duncan on our state. That includes from the Harris and Biden team and he has a ton of money backing him. The problem is for every one Trump 2020 to Harris 2024 voter that we got, we lost three of our own, two of them to the couch. The mythical crossover swing voter is not the Republican that is so entrenched in the party that you got to be a little Republican to win them over. It's the disaffected voter. It's the person that's seeing our money going for war and bombs and destruction and can't pay to reopen a hospital or keep it open, can't feed a hungry kid who now can't learn because they're hungry. That is the problem. I think at the core of what we're trying to do is show a different path to victory. We're seeing Afton Bain right Now close a 22 point gap in Tennessee. We have seen progressives be able to overperform in southern states. And also in New York you mentioned Zoran Zorin won by more than 50 points against essentially an establishment Democrat in a general. And we continue to see these moments of progressives over performing because we're the ones knocking the doors. We're the ones that bring energy. We're not pie in the sky, people. We know the realities of governing. But to your point about that day and what happened to the dnc, the reason it was so crushing wasn't because I was not on that stage. It was because we knew they were going with a strategy that was going to lose. And we are seeing people trying to experiment with that strategy again in our state. I think our state's future is worth more than an experiment.

Joy Reid (98:09)

Roy Roman, you are great. I think you would have been brilliant on that stage. It sounds like what you just said is what you would have been able to deliver. And I was looking forward to seeing your speech had you done it. And I know that outside of the venue you wound up doing a speech. It was great. I will post that and make sure that people can see it. I'll post it posted to the substack. Tell folks how they can support you. Where do they find you online?

Rua Roman (98:28)

Thank you so much. You can find us at rua r u w a4georgia.com all of it spelled out. We would love to have y' all please support. And also remember, keep the faith because there's way more of us than them and we just need to remember what our power is.

Joy Reid (98:43)

You're great. Rua Ramon rooting for you. Please come back anytime. Please keep posted on the campaign. Just wave a flag if you need to say some things on. On this show. You are welcome.

Rua Roman (98:54)

It was so lovely seeing you again. Thank you for having me.

Joy Reid (98:57)

You too. Thank you very much. That's real, Ramon, everybody. And look, never say anybody can't win because anybody can win if you vote for them. That, that is. That is my belief. Anybody can win if you vote for them. So let's head into the next piece here because I want to. I want to take you guys and take you inside and give you guys an inside sneaky peek at a media thing. Okay? So this is E1. I want you guys to see this CNN headline. You see this? K shaped economy and inflation. Boost Black Friday sales by 4.1% from last year. Online spending jumps 9.1%. So when you see a headline like that, you're like, oh, people really shopped over the weekend. That Black Friday thing was huge. I guess all those boycotts and all those don't shop at Home Depot things, I guess those didn't work, right? I guess none of that worked. Everybody shopped. Yeah, well, sometimes the headlines don't really tell you the story. You have to click and read. So if you actually read the story, we're going to put that up it's a little bit different. This is, it's tiny wetter, so I'll just read it to you. US Retail sales on Black Friday, the busiest shopping day of the year, climbed 4.1% compared to last year, according to data released Saturday by MasterCard. Spending Pulse Online shoppers alone spent $11.8 billion, up of 9.1% from 2024. Okay, same as the headline, according to data from Adobe Analytics. But those gains don't quite account for higher prices due to inflation, so actual spending could be flat. We have 3% inflation, so maybe the 4.1% increase in spending is a real increase of just 1% or so, which is not that much of an increase, rick Newman, who writes the Pinpoint Press, a newsletter for the US Economy, told CNN on Friday. There's also a bifurcation in who is spending. The Federal Reserve's most recent Beige book, a collection of anecdotes about the economy, showed consumer spending among low and middle income consumers is on the decline. Meanwhile, the Fed found high end consumers are continuing to spend, including on luxury items and travel. Consumers have bought fewer items this holiday season, but the average selling prices are higher, according to Claudia Lombana, a national consumer expert. The ones that have higher income are spending at will, but those who are less affluent are budgeting, Lambana told CNN's Omar Jimenez on Saturday. It's part of the so called K shaped economy in which higher earners get a boost from their stock market investments and home valuations and use their fatter paychecks to spend. But lower earners increasingly live paycheck to paycheck and look for discounts or curtail their spending to cope with rising prices. So yeah, people are paying more money this year, but they're not necessarily spending more money this year. And what I love that CNN decided to just completely leave out is that some people who actually could spend are choosing not to spend because they're boycotting some of the biggest retailers in the economy. And that's something that the mainstream media, they don't want you to even think about at all. Joining me now is Nalini Stamp of the Working Families Party, who's also a partner in the actions against Home Depot as well as the We Ain't Buying it campaign. Hello. How are you Nalini?

Nalini Stamp (102:22)

Good, how are you Joy?

Joy Reid (102:24)

Good, I'm good. So I hope I explained that right. It's the idea that you people are reporting on higher spending in order to lull consumers into a false belief that everybody's out there spending freely but people are losing their jobs and are broke. They don't have any money. And also, when they do shop, everything costs more. So why do you think that we still get this sort of gauzy narrative?

Nalini Stamp (102:48)

Well, we get the gauzy narrative because retailers, the Trump administration, many people want to look like everything's fine, fine. They don't want to look. They don't want to show a dent in the economy. They don't want to. They want to show projection to their, you know, the people who have their stocks. They want to show projections to their boards. They have all of these board meetings that are coming up, these shareholder meetings that are coming up in the spring, and they want to have a tough exterior. But we do also know the reality, like, tariffs have risen, like, has have risen prices across the, across this country. No business, whether small or large, has not been affected by Trump's tariffs. We have seen, and that is rising, that is raising prices across the board. We understand that people have to just raise their prices because they are not making that much money. So I can't wait until, like, the unit reports come out where we actually see how many units did Target sell? How many unit. You know, we're sold on Cyber Monday because that's where we can actually get if there are less units. We see a clear picture here. We see a clear picture that prices have gone up. The other thing that is, is important, and I, I always love the videos of folks who peel off the, you know, the sales is that all the, a lot of these sales are inflated to begin with. When they say, when they're like, oh, yeah, this is on sale for 9 99. And it was already 9 99.

Joy Reid (104:17)

There is always a price or they raise it to like 12.99 and then drop it back. Exactly.

Nalini Stamp (104:25)

They're like magic. It's a sale. And so, you know, as somebody who worked in retail and retail organizing for a really long time, we know what these, we, what these companies do. And I think a big thing that is important is that we're also remembering the workers. There is a huge strike going on at Starbucks right now where workers are really taking a stand against Howard Schultz and the company and saying they deserve fair pay, they deserve fair scheduling. There have been workers movements of Amazon, all of these different places. A retail movement has been happening and brewing in the last years. And I think it's really important to understand that, like, life hasn't gotten better for folks who are working at these stores. Right. Many people were like, had their SNAP benefits taken away when, you know, when the country, the government was shut down, many people are still on snap or still on, you know, you know, assistance and you know, the myth of we have to, we can't, we can't. The myth of people who don't have jobs are not on this, or people who have jobs are not on this. But the reality is like, we have to show this picture of like, tariffs have been up, it's impacting prices across the country. And there have been a widespread of people who have been standing up against these corporations and beautiful target action. We saw on Saturday action like a week and a half ago at Home Depot where people bought 17 cent ice scrapers and returned it one by one by one to take a stand against, you know, ICE doing raids in their parking lots. And this is where I think we're going into 2026.

Joy Reid (105:53)

And I, you, you mentioned Home Depot. I have to play this. This is a, this is super cute video. This is E3. And you were, you were, you had some involvement in this. This is a Home Depot protest that I think is actually really pretty great. See that?

Nalini Stamp (106:30)

We don't want no more deportations we don't want no more deportations we don't.

Joy Reid (106:37)

Want no more deportations at the Home Depot parking lot we don't want no.

Nalini Stamp (106:44)

More deportations we don't want no more deportations we don't want no more deportations.

Joy Reid (106:52)

At the Home Depot parking We don't.

Nalini Stamp (106:56)

Want no more deportations we don't want no more deportations we don't want no more deportations from the bottom of our.

Joy Reid (107:06)

Heart, I love it. You know, people think of protest is like, oh, that's just going to irritate people, make people mad. You guys were actually making people joyful and happy, and I know you were a part of that. Lyrics, Flip, which was fabulous. Talk about why y' all decided to do such a joyful and beautiful protest.

Nalini Stamp (107:40)

Yeah, so I have this beautiful and lovely chorus called the Resistance Revival Chorus. We've been around for a few years and it's almost 10 years now, but you know, we in, you know, we exude joy and we, you know, everybody says joy is an act of resistance, but we really embody it when we show up with songs at protest from a variety of issues. And to me, the holidays are something, you know, I mean, Christmas, even though it's a corporate holiday, it is still one of the warmest memories I have from my child. People have spent, you know, and that doesn't mean I'll be damned if they take our, our joy away this Christmas and holiday season. Right? And we can do both. We can both stand up to corporations and have that joy and warmth of what it feels like to be with family, friends, chosen family over this holiday season. And so, you know, I was like, wait, Holiday carols. It's something that is easily. People know these tongs. They're ear worms sometimes. And, you know, people know these songs really well. And so we created a list and remixed a list of songs, you know, for. For holiday caroling so folks can take this and do Christmas caroling in whatever community they are in. You can find either a Target or an Amazon shopping center or Whole Foods or, you know, Home Depot, or find your local corporation that's not doing really good in your community and stand outside, put some Santa hats on. What's more de escalatory than a bunch of people coming up and Santa hats.

Joy Reid (109:15)

Sing on key.

Nalini Stamp (109:18)

Make sure you got the beat. Rhythm section and on key are really important. Yeah. You know, taking these songs and it's really welcoming. And then you're still giving people a message, right? People were like, oh, they would. They would listen. They were like, oh, yeah, Feliz Navidad dancing. And they're like, oh, you know what? Yeah, we don't want no more deportation.

Joy Reid (109:36)

And it may.

Nalini Stamp (109:37)

And I think one of the things that. Things that I was raised upon and obviously like watching, hearing, watching, listening to folks veterans of the civil rights movement is that you can communicate through song. Song is a really important tool to actually spread your message and communicate on. And you can take with. For the civil rights movement, it was Christian hymns. You can take different. Different movements had different songs, and you can take those and repurpose them for your movement to build power. So it is a real tool of actually building power and has been used in the history of our. Of our movements here. And so I think it's. It's just one of those things that just brought us joy. It brought a lot of people joy. We're so. We're so. It's been amazing to see the responses come for that. And people are actually starting to do their own Christmas caroling, which I think is already.

Joy Reid (110:31)

I love it. It's a vibe. It definitely brought me joy. I can't tell you how many times I played it because it's like. It's a bop. It's really cute. But the last question I have for you, because this is the thing that I feel that the mainstream media is getting wrong. They're talking about spending just as a raw number, as I read, to you that I read in that CNN report rather than the nuances of it. I still see very few people willing to admit Target is getting their butts handed to them because of the protests, not just because of the tariffs. People want to put it on the tariffs. Yeah, it's the tariffs and the high prices. But people ain't buying it. I mean the we ain't buying it movement is actually, I've heard so many people say I'm gonna find someplace small to shop. I'm gonna go on blap and find a black owned business. Or I'm gonna go in on Etsy and get a little tiny person that says, you know, there are people in the chat who are saying they make jewelry. Everybody getting jewelry this year or I'm giving books out. I did a live with my friend Colette V. Smith, my sorority that has a great book out that she self published. I'm like, give that for Christmas Powering. Where are you getting feedback that people are picking up on the self empowerment of not handing money over to Jeff Bezos so he can hand it to Donald Trump?

Nalini Stamp (111:41)

Yeah, I mean I think a big part of what we've seen this year is people looking for alternatives and sharing alternatives. It started with the Target factor past and the Target boycott. We saw people being like, all right, I need to find X X things at X places. And people started to go, you would see, you know, Target is a big place. I'm, I'm pregnant. I, you know, it's a big place for people's baby registries. All of a sudden you started seeing alternative baby registry websites out there. You started to see, I mean, I found them in as easy as a snap six months later because they're more readily available. And I think that that's really important. Important. You also saw so many people when, you know, I, I, I was a part of the Disney and helped Disney boycott. You saw so many people who were like, oh my God, where am I gonna get Bluey?

Joy Reid (112:27)

Just let y' all know. One of the organizers of the Jimmy Kimmel boycotts, you are, look, you are looking right now at one of the people who organized that boycott. And that was a what, $6 billion out of their pockets like in three days or something.

Nalini Stamp (112:43)

Four million people unsubscribed. And people did it because they, they realized, wait, I can go to pbs. I can go and have a subscription there and not have to subscribe to Amazon prime or you know, Prime Video or, or Disney.

Joy Reid (112:56)

Right.

Nalini Stamp (112:57)

And and so I think what we are seeing is, is that I saw a lot more people. I've also seen more small businesses being promoted unlike any before. And I look, I'm, I'm a shopping girl, y'.

Joy Reid (113:08)

All.

Nalini Stamp (113:08)

Like, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I am a shopping girly, but I'm also, you know, I grew up working class. I you it a little bit to middle class, but I'm a shopping girly. I'm always looking for deals. And I even saw my family, who is working class, who are, you know, retail workers, service workers, they're all trying to find small business alternatives. And so I think that that is. I can't wait to see. And we've already seen that small business numbers have been rising, which is good. That's what we want. We want your local small businesses. So please shout out your businesses in the chats, continue to promote with that stuff across the, you know, across the Internet so that we all can actually see and grow. And I think the more and more that we grow, because, look, this admin is not going anywhere right now.

Joy Reid (113:55)

That's it.

Nalini Stamp (113:57)

Not for a while. And we know with next year, with midterms, with all of these things, with America 250, with all of these things that Trump wants to make a, you know, pompous show of with the World cup, we are going to be needing to use our dollars more than ever. So to me, 2025 was like, it was like a big practice for a marathon next year.

Joy Reid (114:19)

Yes, absolutely. Nalini stamp organizer extraordinaire, check out shopredbag.com for your baby stuff. I mean, I just discovered it over the weekend, and they've got amazing stuff. They are an alternative to Target, and they have a lot of the same things that are at target. So shopredbag.com check that out because you're gonna find some really great stuff for the baby. And congratulations on that.

Nalini Stamp (114:41)

Thank you so much.

Joy Reid (114:43)

Nalini Stamp, everybody. Yes. That is one of the geniuses behind the boycott that when Jimmy Kimmel got taken off the air, people thought it was spontaneous. It wasn't. It was. It was the work of organizers. And she has been organizing that fan community for a really long time. So she was one of the primary organizers there. So she knows of what she speaks. All right, y', all, I am waiting for in my ear to get the name of the winner, the reader who won Our Roy Wood Jr contest who is going to be receiving a signed copy of his book, plus a mug just like this one, this cute, little, adorable Joy Reid show mug. And so we are waiting for. I'm just waiting for Sean to pop that into my.

Merck (115:23)

I was about to say Sean didn't get.

Joy Reid (115:24)

She got it. She gotta put. She gotta put the name in. But we do have a winner. So thank you to everybody that joined that. That little competition. But we do have a winner. If we. If she doesn't give it to me before the end of the show, we'll just put it in the sub stack and we'll put it in. In the description of the show. So congratulations to that. And let me see. I had, like, I had one other thing. Oh. I wanted to let you all know that so far because remember, tomorrow is giving Tuesday, and we have raised about 589just from the little gifts that you all have put into the show. People giving $1.99 or 2.99. That's going to justiceforgreenwood.org we're at $589 and counting. And we are going to send them that money first thing on Tuesday. We want to give you all a little bit more time. If you want to throw a little bit of extra money in the tail, let's try to get to 600. Let's give them an even number. We don't want an uneven number. If y' all get us to 600 so we can send them something, we want to make sure. And we'll throw a little bit in as well on our end. I really want to make sure that we help justiceforgreenwood.org They're a great organization. The Roy Wood Jr contest a winner. It was a random drawing of those who put in their emails and let us know that you are a subscriber. And the winner is 95 Mama. 95 Mama. If 95 Mama is in the house, you are the winner of the Roy Wood Jr contest. We'll make sure we get your information and get you your prize. All right, now let's play our moment of joy. Now, we played for you the Feliz Navidad version of protest. But lots of people were doing singing protests over the weekend. I was enjoying listening to all the people who were singing, but I just had to bring forth the queen. The queen. The one and only Jennifer Lewis delivered an anthem for our age. And just mind the cussing, fam. I know we've had a little cussing tonight in the show, but y' all are grown because her incredible anthem is our moment of joy. Jason, whenever you're ready, please play E4.

Nalini Stamp (117:15)

Hey, is everybody on track? Cause this Friday ain't black. Cause we ain't buying we ain't buying When I stand up, stand up and never quit we ain't buying.

Merck (117:39)

From the.

Nalini Stamp (117:39)

25Th of November to the 5th of December remember we ain't buying we ain't buyin shit this Friday ain't black cause we got each other's back we ain't buyin we ain't buyin. We ain't we ain't we ain't we ain't we ain't we ain't by we ain't buying.

Joy Reid (118:31)

Jennifer Lewis, everybody. She is our moment of joy. You gotta love Jennifer Lewis whenever she comes to come correct. Thank you all very much for watching the show. Happy giving Tuesday Eve. And look at that, we've got Yali 1978 saying, thank you for sharing with Greenwood. We love them and we love you. Love everybody in the chat. Love all of you who are listening, wherever you're listening, please hit like and subscribe. That's all we ask. Just hit like and subscribe and share. Make sure that you share the love and share the Joy Reid Show Magic because we want to make sure that our squad is the biggest squad, because our squad is already the best squad. And we want to make sure that we are all the way through December 5th. We are teaching ourselves a new habit and a new muscle. We are exercising the muscle of self liberation, self love. Don't spend money with people who don't like you. If they don't like you, don't give them your money. How about that? If they don't like dei, that means they probably don't like any of y'. All. Because all of DEI is not just black folks. It's brown folks. It's women. It's aapi, it's indigenous folks. It's veterans. It's. It's all of the people who are in that DEI universe. Women. All of the people, they don't like you. Why are you giving them your money? If you don't like somebody, you're not gonna like, hand them a dollar. You don't like them, they don't like you, you don't like them. It's not personal. And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna spend our money with, with small businesses, local businesses. Find your local business and spend money with them. If you also want to spend money with us because we also have stuff. This merch is super cute. This is like the little merch with the little cartoon on it. It's super cute. But you can do that on shop.joann reid.com and you can hit blackout 25 and get a 20 discount. So we're giving you that as well because, you know, that's what we're doing. We love you guys. Thank you for watching, and we'll see you on the next the Joy Read Show. Goodbye. Okay, The world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, Drafting reports, analyzing data Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more@Microsoft.com M365 copilot.