Trump admin burying the Epstein Files? | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joy Reid Show
Episode: Trump Admin Burying the Epstein Files? | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!
Release Date: July 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Joy Reid Show, host Joy-Ann Reid delves into the tumultuous developments within the Trump administration, particularly focusing on the handling of the Jeffrey Epstein case. The discussion highlights internal conflicts involving key administration figures, the release and potential manipulation of Epstein's jail footage, and broader implications for transparency and accountability. Additionally, Joy transitions to address recent agricultural policies implemented by the Trump administration, examining their impact on American farmers, especially Black farmers, and the broader labor landscape.

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Section 1: Internal Struggles Over the Epstein Files

Dan Bongino's Absence and Feud with Pam Bondi

At the outset, Joy Reid brings attention to Dan Bongino, the Deputy FBI Director, who reportedly did not attend work on a Friday due to escalating tensions with Attorney General Pam Bondi over the handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files.

• Quote (00:36):

  Joy Reid: "Dan Bongino, who is the deputy FBI director, is not, apparently was not at work today."

Background on Dan Bongino and Epstein Conspiracies

Joy provides context on Bongino's background as a prominent right-wing podcaster known for advocating conspiracy theories surrounding Epstein's death, including claims of foul play and the existence of a high-profile client list implicating both Republicans and Democrats.

• Quote (04:41):

  Dan Bongino: "There is a lot of really obviously powerful people this part... I believe the Clintons, based on information I discussed yesterday, who are knee deep in involvement with Jeffrey Epstein."

Daily Beast Report and Administration Tensions

Joy reads a headline from the Daily Beast reporting on Bongino's consideration to quit amidst his clashes with Bondi regarding the Epstein files, especially as recent findings suggest Epstein's death may not align with popular MAGA conspiracy theories.

• Quote (00:36-04:41):

  Joy Reid discusses the report: "FBI Director Dan Bongino did not show up to work on Friday and is considering quitting. And after clashing with Attorney General Pam Bondi over the handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files..."

Bongino's Shift from Conspiracist to Administration Official

Joy highlights the irony of Bongino, once a vocal conspiracist, now being part of the administration responsible for the very transparency he once demanded, especially regarding the Epstein files.

• Quote (07:04):

  Dan Bongino: "There is nothing in the file at this point on the Epstein case. And there is going to be a disclosure on this coming shortly."

Marsha Blackburn's Advocacy vs. Administration's Stance

The Tennessee Senator Marsha Blackburn's efforts to subpoena the Epstein flight logs and Maxwell's contact list are contrasted with Bongino's assertions that the files lack incriminating evidence.

• Quote (05:49):

  Marsha Blackburn: "The American people have the right to know who flew on his planes... With Republican control of Congress and President Trump back in the Oval Office, we're going to see some real change on this issue."

Release and Scrutiny of Epstein's Jail Footage

Joy discusses the Department of Justice's release of Epstein's jail footage, which has been criticized for potential manipulation. Wired's analysis suggests the footage was edited using professional tools, undermining its authenticity as "raw" surveillance.

• Quote (13:46):

  Joy Reid: "Metadata embedded in the video and analyzed by Wired and independent video forensics experts shows that rather than being a direct exploit from the prison surveillance system, the footage was modified..."

Interview with Julie K. Brown: Insights on Epstein Investigation

Journalist Julie K. Brown joins the show to provide expert analysis on the Epstein case, questioning the competence and motives of administration officials like Bondi and Bongino in handling the investigation.

• Quote (22:59):

  Julie K. Brown: "They sound like they really don't understand the case. From the very beginning with Pam Bondi announcing... it's very unlikely that there is such a thing as an Epstein list."

Historical Context and Epstein's Connections

Brown elaborates on Epstein's background as a teacher-turned-financier with ties to powerful individuals, including former Attorney General William Barr's father. She underscores the lapses in prison security and the mysterious circumstances surrounding Epstein's death.

• Quote (21:15):

  John Boyd Jr.: "They couldn't have done all this for so long all by himself. He relied on a whole staff of people to help him with everything that he did."

Conclusion of Epstein Segment

Joy wraps up the discussion by emphasizing the unsettling developments within the Trump administration and the urgent need for transparency in the Epstein case, especially given the high-profile individuals potentially implicated.

• Quote (35:05):

  Joy Reid: "He was calling for transparency and now he's in a position to deliver. And if you don't deliver... it's very weird."

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Section 2: Trump Administration's Agricultural Policies and Impact on Black Farmers

Transition to Agricultural Policies

Joy shifts focus to recent Trump administration policies prohibiting Chinese entities from purchasing American farmland and restricting undocumented labor in agriculture to ensure that American farms are owned and operated by Americans.

Policy Details and Agricultural Secretary Brooke Rollins' Statements

Agricultural Secretary Brooke Rollins outlines the administration's stance against amnesty for farm laborers and emphasizes the need for a 100% American workforce in farming, proposing automation and structural reforms as solutions.

• Quote (37:21):

  Brooke Rollins: "The president has been unequivocal that there will be no amnesty."

Interview with John Boyd Jr.: Impact on Black Farmers

John Boyd Jr., founder of the National Black Farmers Association, discusses the detrimental effects of these policies on Black farmers. He highlights historical injustices, such as the unlawful seizure of Black-owned farmland, and critiques the administration's approach to replacing a skilled Black farming workforce with less capable workers.

• Quote (39:14):

  John Boyd Jr.: "Farming is the hardest occupation known to man... If you are trying to rapidly deport the specific ethnicity that makes up a bulk of farm workers... you're going to need to replace those workers."

Historical Context of Farm Labor and Racial Dynamics

Boyd provides a historical overview of how Black farmers were marginalized and systematically stripped of land through legal and bureaucratic means, drawing parallels to current policies that threaten their livelihoods and perpetuate racial discrimination.

• Quote (42:28):

  Cash Patel: "They want to bring in white farmers from South Africa, providing them with a fast path to citizenship and going to offer them homesteads and land out of federal inventory."

Impact of Labor Restrictions on Farming Operations

Boyd criticizes the reliance on undocumented labor in agriculture and argues that the proposed replacement with Medicaid recipients is impractical and exploitative, comparing it to forced labor or indentured servitude.

• Quote (44:48):

  Cash Patel: "You're going to offer them homesteads and give them a fast path to citizenship. But take out others that look like me and you."

Economic and Social Implications

Joy links the restricted labor policies to broader economic consequences, such as increased food prices and strain on farming operations, while also addressing the racialized undertones of the administration's strategies.

• Quote (49:30):

  Cash Patel: "Farming never ends... These aren't people that do soft hand work here... People have to have some sort of skill set to do this kind of work."

Consequences for Black Farmers and Agricultural Sustainability

Boyd emphasizes that these policies not only harm Black farmers but also threaten the sustainability of American agriculture by disrupting established farming practices and undermining the expertise of experienced Black farmers.

• Quote (51:07):

  Joy Reid: "They want to bring in white farmers from South Africa and give them land and give them a fast path to citizenship. And anybody that has some skin tone and they classify them as immigrants, they're shipping them out of here."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Joy Reid Show offers a critical examination of the Trump administration's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein case, highlighting internal conflicts and questions surrounding transparency. Simultaneously, Joy addresses significant agricultural policies that disproportionately affect Black farmers and the broader labor force, underscoring the intersection of race, politics, and economic policies in contemporary America. Through insightful interviews and in-depth discussions, Joy Reid emphasizes the necessity for accountability and equitable treatment within both governmental and agricultural sectors.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Dan Bongino (04:41): "There are a lot of really obviously powerful people this part, you know, but the specific names we may not, including I believe the Clintons..."

• Marsha Blackburn (05:49): "The American people have the right to know who flew on his planes..."

• Dan Bongino (07:04): "There is nothing in the file at this point on the Epstein case."

• Julie K. Brown (19:00): "They sound like they really don't understand the case..."

• Brooke Rollins (37:21): "The president has been unequivocal that there will be no amnesty."

• John Boyd Jr. (39:14): "Farming is the hardest occupation known to man..."

• Cash Patel (42:28): "They want to bring in white farmers from South Africa..."

• Cash Patel (51:07): "They want to bring in white farmers from South Africa and give them land and give them a fast path to citizenship."

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Final Notes:

This episode underscores the critical challenges facing American governance and agricultural sectors, particularly in the realms of transparency, racial justice, and economic sustainability. Joy Reid's incisive commentary and expert guest contributions provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these complex issues.

Transcript

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[Joy Reid]

Okay. Hey everybody. TGIF. Welcome to the Joy Reid Show. There's a lot going on today, particularly in the Trump regime. Dan Bongino, who is the deputy FBI director, is not, apparently was not at work today. He did not go to work today. The Daily Beast reporting that there are a few problems going on between Dan Bongino and the Attorney General Pam Bondi and maybe some other folks inside of the administration. Let me just go ahead and read you this headline and before I read you the headline from the Daily Beast about Dan Bongino not showing up to work on this Friday, note that if you are going to have a presidential administration and you're going to stack your administration with podcasters and TV personalities and other people who are not like professional in terms of government service, but who have a following, a built in following that they brought with them based on certain issues, maybe certain conspiracy theories, they're going to be expected by the people who follow them and admire them and who listen to their podcast and watch them on Fox. They're going to expect them to follow through on the things that they used to talk about and yak about on those podcasts and on Fox, et cetera. Right. So just to set that up, Dan Bongino is a longtime podcaster, very popular on the right wing, and there were certain issues that he talked a lot about when he was doing a podcast. One of them was Jeffrey Epstein and the supposed conspiracy to say that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself in prison and to bury the Epstein files, which were understood to be the list of clients, high profile clients, Republicans, Democrats alike, who were using Jeffrey Epstein's illicit services. So that is the setup for you to understand. So now let me read this Daily Beast story about Dan Bongino apparently feuding with Pam Bondi and not going to work today. FBI Director Dan Bongino did not show up to work on Friday and is considering quitting. And after clashing with Attorney General Pam Bondi over the handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files, in the latest sign of escalating tensions over the late Child sex offender. Tempers reportedly flared this week after the administration determined that Epstein did not, after all, have a celebrity client list and was not murdered in his jail cell, as many in MAGA world believe. Now, I will say that I do believe that MAGA is a conspiracy theory driven religious movement, but that doesn't mean that all of their conspiracy ideas are totally crazy. And you know, I know it sounds crazy for me to say that not everything that MAGA believes is absolutely insane, but the reality is, is the Jeffrey Epstein demise is not just being questioned by maga. Back in the day when I had a weekend show, I interviewed somebody who, who was very much in conversation with Jeffrey Epstein's family and his brother, who never believed that he was murdered, who never believed that he committed suicide, believed that he had been killed. And there's a lot of weird intrigue around Jeffrey Epstein. So I wanna go back though, and go back, walk through the history of some of Trump's loyal soldiers in his regime, at least up to now, and what they've said about Jeffrey Epstein in the past. So we talked about Dan Bongino. Let's go to Dan Bongino. So Dan Bongino in the past. And this is Dan. This is Bongino on his old podcast. And this was actually not that long ago, this was on his podcast before he actually got named to the administration. And I will note he got named to the administration in part because on X Twitter, Elon Musk was asking fans, hey, do you want Dan Bonino to be in the administration? They were like, yeah, it was literally like a fan pick to have him join the administration. Here's what he said back then, before he was in the administration, about Jeffrey Epstein. Here's Dan Bondino.

[Dan Bongino]

Huge story. Again, not a lot of people are talking about. There is a little current of information I'm getting that the Department of Justice under Pam Bondi may be finally releasing a lot of information as Jeffrey Epstein case, which is a huge deal. I don't know if it's going to happen or not. I'm hoping it does, but I've been covering it for a long time. The Jeffrey Epstein case. You do not know all the details of this thing, I promise. There are a lot of really obviously powerful people this part, you know, but the specific names we may not, including I believe the Clintons, based on information I discussed yesterday, who are knee deep in involvement with Jeffrey Epstein. And no one can figure out what the level of entanglement is. Jeffrey Epstein met with Obama's fixer, his lawyer, Katherine Rummler, who was always the one in the middle of these Obama scandals. And we can't figure out why, what they're hiding. Here's Marsha Blackburn, who has been all over this. She's a senator from Tennessee, Republican, obviously. And she's like, hey, man, is it time now? It's time to start overturning that rock and seeing what's underneath it. Check this out.

[Marsha Blackburn]

I've repeatedly requested a subpoena for the complete, unredacted Epstein flight logs from the FBI. I've also pushed for the release of Ghislaine Maxwell's unredacted little black book of contacts and addresses. The American people have the right to know who flew on his planes, who witnessed the crimes, and who potentially participated in his global sex trafficking ring. Yet time and again in the last Congress, Democrat leadership and, and then FBI Director Ray stonewalled my request. But now with Republican control of Congress and President Trump back in the Oval Office, we're going to see some real change on this issue. Just last week, the President's excellent.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, Marsha Blackburn, promising. There's going to be change on the issue. Now let's listen what Dan Bongino said, literally, I think this week, yesterday on Fox.

[Dan Bongino]

I'm just telling you what we see in the file. I am, I just want to be crystal clear on this. I am not asking anyone to believe me. I'm telling you what's there and what isn't.

[Joy Reid]

Right.

[Dan Bongino]

There is nothing in the file at this point on the Epstein case. And there is going to be a disclosure on this coming shortly. We are working through some. There is video that. That is something the public.

[Cash Patel]

There's video of him killing him.

[Dan Bongino]

No, no, not, not the actual act, but the entire MCC Bay, it was only one camera. There were other. There's video that when you look at the video. And we will release. That's what's taken a while on this. We are working on cleaning it up to make sure you have an enhanced and we're going to give the original. So you don't think there were any shenanigans. You're going to see there's no one there but him.

[Joy Reid]

Right?

[Dan Bongino]

There's just nobody there. So I say to people, if you have a tip, let us know. But there's no DNA, there's no audio, there's no fingerprints, there's no suspects, there's no accomplices, there's no tips. There is nothing. If you have it, I'm happy to see it. There's video clear as day. He's the only person in there and the only person coming out. You can see it.

[Joy Reid]

So Viva difference. This is somebody who for years has been claiming that there was a murder, that there is a secrets that are being kept from you, the American people that the and he had, you know, played Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee senator, saying, hey, don't worry about it. With Republicans in charge, you're going to finally get answers on all of the, they think just Democrats. We've heard lots of other names, one of them Donald Trump, that were hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein. And no one knows who's in these Epstein files. All right, let's play another piece of video. He mentioned the jail video. I want to play for you. This is a local NBC News report about the Epstein jail video. Because Pam Bondi, under a lot of pressure, the Justice Department did release video that purports to show Jeffrey Epstein's last day, his last, you know, hours in the jail cell. But it doesn't exactly show his jail cell. It's a weird angle. And, and you're going to hear his brother talk about his interpretation of that video. So here is Epstein jail video.

[Cash Patel]

I don't have it.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, Epstein jail video question. We don't have it. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, I will just tell you that there is video of Jeffrey Epstein in the jail, but it is an over, sort of overhang shot of him where you actually can't see it. You know, we don't have Epstein jail video question. We don't have that video.

[Cash Patel]

We do not.

[Joy Reid]

We do not. Okay, Well, I will just tell you that in that video you can actually see this sort of overhang shot of Jeffrey Epstein's sort of cell area, but you really don't see anything of him himself. Now let's go to Cash Patel. Cash Patel, also longtime podcaster, right wing influencer, who has long said also that there is a cover up in the Jeffrey Epstein case. Do we have Cash Patel from 2023?

[Julie K. Brown]

I'm saying it's not there. Who are you going to get to get that?

[Joy Reid]

Who has who, for instance, who is currently holding this way off the topic. But who has Jeffrey Epstein's black book?

[Julie K. Brown]

Black book FBI.

[Dan Bongino]

But who that is that.

[Julie K. Brown]

I mean, there's, that's under direct control of the director of the FBI. Just like the manifesto from the Nashville school shooting of the Catholic school. We still haven't seen that. Right. It's not the Nashville police or PD saying we don't want this out. The FBI air mailed into that operation and said this is not Getting out because they do that, because they. This is another government gangster operation. All these local law enforcement communities get funding from the DOJ and FBI for local programs. And if you don't cooperate, you're not getting your million dollars for this and you're not getting your. And that's a lot of money to these local districts. That's how they play the game. You know, it's the same thing with Epstein's list. It's like, what the hell are these Republicans doing?

[Joy Reid]

Oh, I saw you give out.

[Dan Bongino]

I saw you make news this morning about that. I gotta get to that. You say that the FBI has Epstein's list. They're sitting on it. That doesn't seem like something you should do. You're protecting the world's foremost predator. That seems like an evil thing to do, regardless of who may be embarrassed in the release of that list. Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederist, the largest scale pederist in human history?

[Julie K. Brown]

Simple. Because of who's on that list. You don't think that Bill Gates is lobbying Congress night and day to prevent the disclosure of that list? And why is it that the Senate, you know, and good for Senator Blackburn to try to get it out, but then Dick Turbin comes over the top and says, no, we're not going to release the names. I don't care about the list itself. But if you release the names right, what the hell are the House Republicans doing? They have the majority. You can't get the list. You're going to accept Dick Durbin's word or whoever that guy is, as to who is on that list and who isn't and that it can and can't be released. Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are. We have an election coming up and we need to adjudicate this matter at the polls. God knows the FBI and DOJ aren't going to do anything. But how are you going to reward the FBI with a new headquarters building after their illegal surveillance on Donald Trump continues with a reauthorization of fisa and we can't even get basic documents out. This is why America hates Congress.

[Joy Reid]

And this. So now you have Cash Patel, who used to say that the FBI director is in possession of the Epstein files. Well, I wonder who the FBI director is now. I don't say who is. Oh, it's Cash Patel. Cash Patel is now the FBI director. So in 2023, he's telling Glenn Beck the FBI director is who has the Epstein files. That is who is in possession of them. And ultimately that person, the FBI director, can release them. Well, now, Cash, you're in a position to release them. You are the FBI director. It makes no sense to be the FBI director. You are a podcaster. I wouldn't have made you the FBI director, but Donald Trump did. Donald Trump made you FBI director. And all of a sudden all of the vehemence about releasing the Epstein files has seemed to vanish. When it comes to Donald Trump, who now gets angry if any reporter asks him about the Epstein files, Cash Patel, who's missing in action today, although there's also rumors, and I believe Axios is doing this, reporting that he also is thinking about leaving his job. And then of course, Dan Bongino, who didn't show up to work today and is apparently feuding with Pam Bondi about these same acting files. And according now as regarding that video, Wired has a story out that's even more weird. Wired has a story out saying that the Department of Justice this week released nearly 11 hours of what it described as is a full raw surveillance footage from a camera positioned near Jeffrey Epstein's prison cell. He tells Terry Parker there's a cover up. The release is intended.

[Marsha Blackburn]

Several investigators say this just released surveillance.

[Joy Reid]

Video proves no one entered Jeffrey Epstead of putting those further. Metadata. Metadata embedded in the video and analyzed by Wired and independent video forensics experts shows that rather than being a direct exploit from the prison surveillance system, the footage was modified, likely using the professional editing tool Adobe Premiere Pro. The file appears to have been assembled from at least two source clips, saved multiple times, exported and then uploaded by the DOJ's website where it was presented as raw footage. So now you can see right there, that's the footage. And that's the footage I want to actually let you listen to the brother of Jeffrey Epstein. I think he's on that footage. Jason, is that on that same footage?

[Cash Patel]

It is.

[Joy Reid]

All right, let's listen.

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[Cash Patel]

You know, nobody would interrupt and, and there's a gap around midnight or something like that for like a minute or so. So who knows what that is. But this, this thing is shows nothing.

[Marsha Blackburn]

This camera view shows the special.

[Joy Reid]

So that's Jeffrey Epstein's brother, his brother talking to a local news station saying that what's, what you're seeing in that video is bs it isn't legitimate. And there is this one minute gap. Pam Bondi. Okay, let's now do Pam Bondi. Let's talk about Pam Bondi. Let's play Pam Bondi. In the past, Pam Bondi used to say that not only is the administration going to get to the bottom of what Jeffrey. Of Jeffrey Epstein Epstein's death, she was going to get to the bottom of it. And she in fact said that she has the Epstein files literally in her possession. Do we have Pam Bondi on Fox? Let's play that. Will that really happen?

[Pam Bondi]

It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the process of being reviewed because that was done at the directive of the president from all of these agencies.

[Dan Bongino]

So, so have you seen anything that you said? Oh, my gosh, not yet. Okay, well, we'll check back with you.

[Joy Reid]

Who on let's play Pam Bondi this week.

[Cash Patel]

You go ahead.

[Joy Reid]

Sure, sure.

[Pam Bondi]

First to back up on that, in February, I did an interview on Fox and, and it's been getting a lot of attention because I said I was asked a question about the client list and my response was it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed, meaning the file along with the JFK MLK files as well. That's what I meant by that. Also to the tens of thousands of video, they turned out to be child porn downloaded by that disgusting Jeffrey Epstein. Child porn is what they were never going to be released, never going to see the light of day. To him being an agent, I have no knowledge about that. We can get back to you on that. And the minute missing from the video, we released the video showing definitively the video was not conclusive, but the evidence prior to was showing he committed suicide. And what was on that? There was a minute that was off the counter. And what we learned from Bureau of Prisons was every year, every night they redo that video. It's old from like 1999. So every night the video is reset and every night should have the same minute missing. So we're looking for that video to release that as well, showing that a minute is missing every night. And that's it on Epstein.

[Joy Reid]

All right, let me bring in my guest because it's all very strange. Pam Bondi goes from, you know, being a fireball on getting to the bottom of The Jeffrey Epstein death to being like, you know, there's always a minute gap. That's just the way it is. Cash Patel, very quiet right now after saying, yeah, we're going to get to the bottom of it and the FBI director can do it. He's not FBI director. Not happening. And Dan Bongino not coming to work. Julie K. Brown is our guest. She is a longtime reporter at the Miami Herald and she has been one of the journalists who has been the most on top of this Jeffrey Epstein saga. And it's great to have her here because she is an expert on this case. Julie K. Brown, thanks for being here. Uh, oh, your microphone might be muted, Julie. Let's, let's.

[Cash Patel]

I think our microphone.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, I think you're muted.

[John Boyd Jr.]

I'm not muted.

[Joy Reid]

Ah, you're unmuted.

[John Boyd Jr.]

I didn't do anything, but, oh, there we go.

[Joy Reid]

The magic of YouTube. You are now here. Julie came around. It's great to talk to you again. I, I think the last time that we spoke was on my weekend show on AM Joy. So it is great to catch up with you again. I just want to get from your perspective, just as a journalist, what do you make of this? Sort of the seeming reversal by some of the most prominent purveyors of the theory that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered, meaning Cash Patel and Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi, you could say now, saying, nothing to see here.

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, obviously they don't know. You know, they didn't know what they were confronting here. They didn't know how much material there is. There they are. They sound like they really don't understand the case. From the very beginning with Pam Bondi announcing on national television that the file or the list was on her desk, I knew right away she didn't know what she was talking about because that first of all, it's very unlikely that there is such a thing as an Epstein list. Now that doesn't mean that there aren't files filled with information about people who were helping Epstein. He couldn't have done all this for so long all by himself. He just couldn't. He relied on a whole staff of people to help him with everything that he did. So there likely is a lot of information in these files. Maybe not a so called list, but there's information about the people who helped him or witnesses who knew who these other people were that were involved with his crimes.

[Joy Reid]

And so let's go back because I think for those who are not, who have not followed every gory bit of the details of Jeffrey Epstein's horrific life. One of the reasons that people are so suspicious about his death is that he was in the Federal Bureau of Prisons. And at the time, Bill Barr, William Barr, was the Attorney General of the United States. And there is a connection between the Barr family, namely Barr's father and Jeffrey Epstein through his job that he had as a teacher in New York. Can you explain that connection, please?

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, we believe that Bill Barr, his father, hired Jeffrey Epstein because he didn't have. Jeffrey Epstein didn't have a college degree when he was hired at this very elite, prestigious school in New York. So how would it be that he was hired unless he knew somebody? So the idea that, that Bill Barr's father was there at the time and seems, and we've been told repeatedly that, that he was the person that would have signed off on hiring someone like Jeffrey Epstein. Now, whether that had anything to do with what happened in the prison, we really don't know. What we do know is that the investigation showed that there was a lot of lapsed security there. The cameras weren't working, the guards weren't paying attention. They lied on their reports. There's a whole litany of problems here. And I think it's always troubled me because I've covered prisons for so long and I know how these crimes, crimes happen in prisoners all the time. And, you know, these are criminals and they know how to evade the cameras, for example, they know how to commit these crimes. So what's always troubled me about this is that they've never released really all the documents that they have on his death, including his autopsy, quite frankly.

[Joy Reid]

And, and let's talk about the alle. The attempted strangulation murder of Jeffrey Epstein. Because the other piece of the puzzle is, is that there was an allegation that a retired, a dirty cop, basically somebody who had been convicted of crimes, but it was a police officer, tried to strangle Jeffrey Epstein not that long before he was actually supposedly died by suicide. Right.

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, you want to know something funny about that? That report disappeared. We don't have that report. Neither does the Bureau of Prisons. When they released the report into Jeffrey Epstein's death, they mentioned in the report that they tried to get the report about that previous episode, and it's just gone. You know, that there's been the, you know, the, As I said, this investigation is filled with things like that, and it does fuel all these conspiracy theories. I, I tend to think, I try to focus on what we know and what we don't know. And there is still a lot we don't know that. I think, you know, really needs to be investigated. I'm not saying I think that. That he was murdered, but, you know, you put the guy. Why would you put a. You know, Epstein was pretty frail at the time he was arrested. Why would you put him in a cell with a big, beefy former cop who, by the way, was accused of murdering four people? Why would you do that? So it. It really. There's a lot of questions. Like I said, it don't, you know, have any answers or make any. Any sense. Really. The answers don't make any sense.

[Joy Reid]

Well, and. And indeed, if in fact, he was suicidal, why would you have him in his. A cell alone? Because after that allegation, he was then placed solo in a cell. And if you're saying. Claiming that someone was suicidal, you know, I know enough cops and former people who worked in. In. In prison environments that you would never put them in a cell by themselves. And then there's just so many coincidences. Both guards falling asleep, the fact that there was no actual video into his cell, so no one really could see what happened. There's a lot that's strange. And then there is this question of what he knew. Can you talk? Let's just go all the way back. This guy is a math teacher with no college degree, as you said, at the Dalton School, I believe. It's this very prestigious school. He then goes from there to suddenly being the investment investor of choice, the investment broker of choice for a lot of really prominent people, including the guy who ran Victoria's Secret. Can you tell that story?

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, Epstein, at one point, was sleeping on a couch. I mean, he had no money. He was trying to make it in the world of Wall Street. He actually made a bunch of mistakes, got in trouble with the sec, somehow evaded that, and then ended up opening his own company, where he allegedly said he was only going to take people that had, I can't remember how many millions, but you had to have tons of millions of money, or you couldn't even be his client. Look, he was a very, very smart man.

[Joy Reid]

He.

[John Boyd Jr.]

He really did have a lot of intelligence. And he also knew how to manipulate people. And we don't know exactly how he met Les Wexner. I mean, he was an owner of Victoria's Secret, so who knows? But he somehow met this very wealthy man who ended up giving Jeffrey his house in New York, which is, and I think still remains, the largest residence in the whole city of New York. Why would he give a guy a piece of property like that, you know, and ultimately Les Wexner claimed that Epstein kind of embezzled the money from him, but he didn't. He never reported it to the police. You know, there's always been these names of some very big time millionaires who did business with him. And Les Wexner was one of those people.

[Joy Reid]

And was he blackmail, Is there evidence that he was blackmailing people and saying, you have to invest with me because I've got videos of you, you know, essentially committing vile crimes with minors who were provided by Jeffrey Epstein.

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, think about this. I mean, if you're Jeffrey Epstein and let's just say you do have material like that, do you really have to go to someone and if you don't invest with me, I'm going to blackmail you? They know he has that kind of information. It's not like, I'm not saying that that's what he was doing, but he had a lot of information about a lot of powerful people. I mean, we know that. And whether or not they were involved with having sex as part of this underage sex trafficking operation that he was involved with, we really don't know. But what we do know and as they say, followed the money, is that he, Jeffrey Epstein, got a lot of money from some of these people and it's really not clear what he was being paid for.

[Joy Reid]

And then he goes on to move to Florida at some point. We know some of his alleged clients for the sex trafficking of girls, of teenage girls, and sometimes pre teen girls, allegedly included Prince Andrew. Lots of people flying on his plane. Alan Dershowitz saying that he, you know, utilized some of Jeffrey Epstein's masseuse services, but that he was only getting massages. So he said Harvard University, taking big donations from, I mean, he was, he was like, you know, running around with the very rich and famous, right? He was flying the Clintons on his plane. Lots of politicians on his plane, Donald Trump partying with him. Can you talk specifically about the Donald Trump relationship as you understand it?

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, the only thing we really know is that way back when, probably about 20 years ago, they were friends and they, the reports are they had two falling outs. One was because of a property in Palm beach that they were both bidding on. And Trump ultimately won the bidding war, turned around and resold the property to some, I think a Russian oligarch and made an awful lot of money on that property. And because they were in competition for that property, they had a falling out over that. And then the second thing that happened was Epstein was at one of an event at Mar a Lago, and he allegedly hit on one of the, the club members, young, young, young daughters, and they had a falling out over that. So, so they weren't the best of friends by any means, at the, you know, toward the end of when Epstein was sort of being looked at by authorities. But that said, Epstein modeled his business, his modeling business after Trump's modeling business. So he knew enough about what Trump was doing with his modeling business to start his own modeling business. And what Epstein's modeling business was, was to have recruiters around the country and around the world. Mainly, you know, they would go to, to Russia and other countries and get these very, very young girls, make promises to them that they were going to become famous models, bring them to our country on work visas. He had a, he had lawyers who helped them get these visas. And then he would set them up in an apartment complex, that apartment building that he owned and, and his brother also owned in New York. And the youngest ones, they would fly to parties with some of these wealthy people, especially in Palm beach. And that's where some of these girls ended up getting sexually abused.

[Joy Reid]

And do you. Let's talk about the Pam Bondi of it, because when Jeffrey Epstein was in Florida, he was going back and forth between Florida and New York conducting these vile businesses. And also a Caribbean island, I believe he had a whole island, Lolita island, they called it. So he's going to all these different places. Eventually he does get caught up legally and talk about that. And what would Pam Bondi have been doing at that time?

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, she, I don't think she was. She was Attorney General in Florida at the time that he first got investigated. And he. But here's what happened. She was Attorney general when, after, you know, the whole thing happened with the former U.S. attorney, Alexander Acosta, sort of giving him this sweetheart deal that was done all behind the scenes and in secret. He goes to prison, to a jail. And he can't even really call it a jail because he was allowed out all the time. He was, he was just going to an office. He really wasn't in jail when all that was over. By that time, a lot more information was starting to come out about the scope of his sex trafficking operation. There wasn't, remember, he only got convicted for prostitute solicitation of prostitution of, I think, one girl. But by the time all this was done and the deal finally became public, that was made, it started unraveling in that there were many, many, many more girls. And this was a huge sort of pyramid scheme where he was using girls to recruit other girls, that he probably, probably was having other men that were involved. It became sort of suspect that this was a bigger case.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[John Boyd Jr.]

And, and there were stories written about it. And Pam Bondi was Attorney General in Florida when all this was happening. So I've always wondered why the state of Florida didn't look into it and they, you know, there's no evidence that I know of that they did.

[Joy Reid]

Exit question to you before we let you go, There is also the allegation that he was an agent, either an agent working secretly for the FBI, potentially CIA, potentially Mossad in Israel. Any of that, Any truth to any of that?

[John Boyd Jr.]

I just don't know. I've never seen anything. I know it's been out there with a lot of the conspiracy theorists. I think that it's possible, I mean, we believe that he knew Ghislaine Maxwell's father, Robert Maxwell, who was involved in some of that intelligence, especially Israeli intelligence community. So I think it's possible, but we really don't know. And that's why, I mean, I think if nothing else, the victims deserve to know why he was allowed to get away with these crimes for so long.

[Joy Reid]

And how and why he died, because I think it is actually relevant to the American people. And to your point to those victims, if he died as a result of an attempt to silence him or Ghislaine Maxwell, to make sure that whoever were their clients, if those clients were powerful people, that that information never gets out. Whether or not there's a specific Epstein list, I think there is a fiduciary duty that the FBI and the Department of Justice have to tell the American people what is going on. It is not just MAGA weirdos who are worried about this. There are people, there are victims of Jeffrey Epstein and there are just regular people who would just like to actually know the information. Julie K. Brown, any. Anything I've left out that you think people need to know about this case and, and, and any insight that you might have as to why Dan Bongino might want to quit over it.

[John Boyd Jr.]

Well, remember, Bongino was one of the people that was saying this is a whole can cover up and they're hiding things. And so one has to wonder if the reason why he's. He's so upset is because he's now realizing that he's part of possibly covering it up. Because just by the fact that he is where he is in, in, in our government and he was calling for transparency and apparently the opposite has happened.

[Joy Reid]

He was calling for transparency and now he's in charge of doing the transparency. They're actually in a position where you say some conspiracy theories and now you're in a position to deliver. And if you don't deliver, I hate to break it to you, Dan Bongino and Cash Patel and Pam Bondi, you all won the election in part because a certain set of voters believe that you were going to get to the bottom of this. And apparently Donald Trump doesn't want you to. So you're not. It's very weird. Julie K. Brown, thank you so much. Always a pleasure to talk with you.

[John Boyd Jr.]

Thanks.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you very much. All right, we're going to go on to our next topic and I want to thank everybody that's in the chat. I'm trying to shout out a couple of you and lots of questions in the chat about Bongino, about whether or not this is indeed a cover up about Ghislaine Maxwell. Yeah. Is she ever going to go to trial? Are we ever going to get any information? We have no idea. All right, let's move on to another topic. Over the last couple of days, the Trump administration has disallowed the government of China or the people of China, the People's Republic of China, from personal purchasing American farmland. And they've created this prohibition to try to make sure that all of Americans food products come from American farms owned by Americans, not owned by foreigners. Lots of people probably agree with that. The other thing that they've done is to say that even on American farms where American farmers are attempting to cultivate products for the American people, they will not allow any undocumented labor to be a part of that. So I now want to play for you some sound of the agricultural secretary. Her name is Brooke Rollins. Brooke Rollins is asked about the challenge of keeping American farms open if you're also going to raid them and arrest their workers, some of whom are undocumented. Here's Brooke Rollins.

[Pam Bondi]

The president has expressed concerns about how mass deportations would affect the farm industry. Do you have concerns on this front?

[Joy Reid]

And are you hearing about some of.

[Pam Bondi]

These top conservatives saying that there's a push for amnesty for this workforce?

[Brooke Rollins]

I appreciate you bringing that up. There's been a lot of noise in the last few days and a lot of questions about where the president stands and his vision for farm labor. The first thing I'll say is the president has been unequivocal that there will be no amnesty. And I think that's very, very important. I and the rest of our cabinet certainly support that, effectuate that and make sure that happens every single day. The second thing to your question about mass deportations, the President and I have spoken about that once or twice and he has always been of the mindset that at the end of the day, day, the promise to America to ensure that we have a 100% American workforce stands. But we must be strategic in how we are implementing the mass deportation so as not to compromise our food supply. Ultimately the answer on this is automation. Also some reform within the current governing structure. And then also when you think about there are 34 million able bodied adults in our Medicaid program. There are plenty of workers in America, but we just have to make sure we're not compromising today, especially in the context of everything we're thinking about right now. So no amnesty under any circumstances.

[Joy Reid]

Ladies and gentlemen, the Agricultural Secretary of the United States essentially announcing that the 34 million recipients of Medicaid will be made available to American farmers to use as cheap labor on their farms. You're welcome. Let's bring in our Guest, John Boyd Jr. John Wesley Boyd Jr. Is an African American farmer, civil rights activist and the founder of the National Black Farmers Association. He operates the Boyd farm, which is 1500 acre across. 1500 acres across three farms in Baskerville, Virginia where they grow soybeans, corn, wheat and currently raises 150 herd of beef cattle. John Boyd Jr thank you so much. Great to have you on.

[Cash Patel]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Joy Reid]

I want to get your response to that. You know, our history, our shared history, of course, Mr. Boyd, is that our ancestors were brought to this country not to own farms, but to work on them as slave labor and replacing that cheap labor once it was wrestled away from the Confederacy and other farms across the country by the, via the Civil War, there's been this sort of endless quest to replace that farm that cheap, that farm labor with cheap labor. Right. And the cheap labor of note today is largely undocumented. And now what the Agricultural Secretary is saying is that they're going to swap that labor out for folks that get Medicaid.

[Cash Patel]

Your thought, you know, just take things to a whole different level here. You know, there's no way that those persons are going to do this kind of, this kind of hard work. That's the first thing. Farming is the hardest occupation known to man. I just got off the tractor and I'll be honest with that. I took a shower and changed my hat to come on the show with you, you know, and it's the hardest occupation known to man. It's hot Outside today. It takes a special kind of individual to go out there and do this work day in and day out. And so if you think someone who's already has. I'm gonna use my. My grandmother's terminology, some sort of ailment that you already have some difficulties, and you're gonna come out here and do farm work, picking tomatoes and. And everything else. People, it's not gonna. It's not gonna work. The folks who already here. What it wants actually, you know, doing the work in the first place. And first of all, to talk about what you. You spoke about, you know, blacks are the one that, you know, made tobacco, gold and cotton king here. So let's. Let's go back and tell the whole history. And once we stopped doing it for free, they had a problem paying us. And, you know, the whole. The whole issue with land, the way black people got land in this country is because the money wouldn't spend in the south. The currency wouldn't spend. And they had. The states like Virginia and other had had an opportunity to exchange the currency. They wouldn't do it, and they lost the money. And then they started selling land to blacks to stay on. That's how we got the land in the first place. And then after the 60s, they said, oh, okay, man, we want all this land back. And they use USDA and the county committee to get land back from. To steal land back legally. And my dad would always say they always use a legal way to help maneuver black people in this country. So that's how they got rid of blacks in the first place. They didn't want to pay us. And black people say, you know what, I'm moving up south. I'm moving to Chicago and New York City, and I'm not doing this kind of work for free anymore. And then he bought the migrant workers there. And now they're saying they don't want them, they don't want them here. Anybody with some skin tone in this.

[Joy Reid]

Country.

[Cash Patel]

They don't want you here. But they are bringing white farmers from South Africa, providing them with a fast path to citizenship and going to offer them homesteads and land out of federal inventory. The land that came from black people at usda, if it's inventory that came from usda, it came from black people. Black farmers like myself, they're going to give that land to white farmers and provide them with a fast path to citizenship. But they say they don't want anything Georgia to do with race in this country, or we want to do away with that. We don't want nothing to do with race, but they want to bring white farmers. I want to be real. I'm going to say it twice to your listeners. Understand what I'm saying? They want to bring white farmers in from South Africa that look like them and give them land and give them a fast path to citizenship. And anybody that has some skin tone and they classify them as immigrants, they're shipping them out of this country just as fast as they can.

[Joy Reid]

And by the way, it sounds like they want to give, to your point, these Africana farmers, if they're going to give them land. And it sounds like they're also talking about giving them forced labor, labor by force, essentially, because it doesn't sound like they're going to offer the opportunity for people who get Medicaid and who receive SNAP and who receive, you know, meals on wheels, et cetera. It's not as if they're saying, well, no, this is an opportunity for you. It sounds to me like it would be compulsory. Like there isn't. There is a desire. And I have said this before and sound like a conspiracy theorist for saying all of these things go hand in hand. If you are trying to rapidly deport the specific ethnicity that makes up a bulk of farm workers and agricultural workers, you're going to need to replace those workers. And we just heard the Secretary of Agriculture say that there are going to be two sources of replacement labor. It's going to be automation. And so they're looking at using more automated labor. And you can talk about how effective that is on a farm like yours, but also forced labor provided by people in exchange for receiving food and medical assistance from the government. That to me sounds like slavery or indentured servitude. Is that what it sounds like to you?

[Cash Patel]

It's the bottom of the barrel. If I didn't describe it correctly enough for you, it's the bottom of the barrel, first of all, and I tapped on it. You have to have a certain level of skill set to do this kind of work. You have to know how to do it. You know, I've been farming 42 years. I'm fourth generation farmer. I just didn't show up out here and learn how to farm. I was taught how to farm by my daddy, John Boyd Senior, and my grandfather, Thomas Ford. And my daddy called himself a master farmer. I said, dad, what's a master farmer? He said, somebody who can produce a crop with no help from the government every year. That's a master farmer. So black people were master farmers and they had the art and skill set of doing this work. And you're going to replace them with people who already have some challenges. People, a lot of these people already have some challenges. And you're going to put them on a farm and you're going to put them in 100 degree heat like I just left out. Left out from. And they're going to, they're going to be able to do this kind of work with all of the difficulties that they already having. That's why they all these programs because they have some sort of difficulty. There's a lot of people. So I said that not putting down the persons, I'm saying that because they used, they're taking advantage of their situation, which they clearly have some problems because they are on these programs needing assistance in the first place. And you're going to put them on a farm and say, you know what, you're going to pick some oranges, you're going to pick some onions and you're going to pick some tomatoes out here in Florida. The people who this administration is hurting, George, is the very people that voted for this president, them white farmers. I don't have migrant labor on my farm. Everybody on my farm, you know, looks like me. And we've been doing this work for a very, very long time. The people who are going to be hurting and those who are putting pressure on this administration are the very people who voted for them. 99% did. White farmers voted for this president and now they're chasing their help through the fields, shipping them out of here. So they're not hurting the black farmer, the guy who's already been out here who's already scuffling. Black farmers already scuffling in this country. We're already facing hardships. For the first time, Joe, in decades. I have not received a farm operating loan in this country because of the tariffs imposed by this administration. And it took the prices so far down that lenders won't extend credit to me now because of the poor commodity prices. That's the first thing. And now they're picking on persons who can do the work. First of all, these people can do the work. I mean, let's tell it like it is. They have the art and skill set to do the work. They've been doing it and they've been doing it with no problems. Now they're going to chase these people out of the country because they don't want a mirror and they didn't and they not voted for them in mass numbers. That's what this is all about, people. This is about a targeted group of people that they want to run out of this country that has some skin tone that didn't vote for them in mass numbers. That's what this is about. And they want to get them out and bring in whites, white, African. I hate to use the word Africanics because it confuses people. They want to bring in white farmers from South Africa. I want to be perfectly clear to the viewers and listeners and give them a path to citizenship. But take out others that look like me and you, Joy.

[Joy Reid]

And do we have, I don't know if we have the video of the chase by ICE literally chasing farm workers. And I believe this might have been a marijuana farm in California chasing men, women and children through the fields as if they were storming the fields of Normandy, as if they're chasing. Oh, we don't have it. All right, well, we don't have it. I can tell you that the United Farm Workers responded to that. That video was everywhere. And there is a pretty arresting photo. We might have this photo. This is United Farm Workers put out a statement talking about the fact that some. We don't have it with it, that the members, some of the members of the, the, the farm workers who were on that were at that farm were actually injured being chased down by ICE agents literally, who raided a farm and violently arrested people who were just working. I want you to talk about this, Jon Boyd, because the people who do this kind of work, as you said, it's hard work. It can be 100 degree temperatures. Talk about what kind of people these are. Because the, you know, Stephen Miller et al are trying to make them sound like gang members and marauders. But they sound to me like very dedicated workers.

[Cash Patel]

First of all, George, Stephen Miller was following me around the hill decades ago crafting this anti discrimination message when I was trying to get the lawsuits passed for by an act of Congress for black farmers. Stephen Miller was on the front row, very young staffer trying to craft this message. And they used that to really tear down civil rights in this country. That's the first thing. So I wanted to raise the flag on him. He's the bottom of the barrel, in my opinion, in this country. And what he's done to civil rights in this country. Stephen Miller. But to answer your question, this is the hardest work known to man because farming never ends. I can go outside right now, Joy, and continue to work and work to midnight and I still wouldn't be caught up. And the cycle never ends. So once planting season is over and I harvest, I start all over again. So it's the hardest occupation known to man. And the people that do the work to their credit, they're cut from a different cloth. These aren't people that do soft handed work here. You know, I got two sets of calluses on my hands here because the work is physical labor. It's difficult work and everybody can't do this work. And for the people that the secretary stands gonna do this kind of work, people, she's a lost ball in high reach and she really believes that is what I'm trying to describe. And I'm not putting down anybody on these programs. So I, I want to be center of the road of what I'm saying.

[Joy Reid]

I mean to say just to stop you, John, was because they wouldn't be doing it willingly. I mean, what she is describing is essentially forcing people. If you want to eat, if you want to survive, you'll be forced to do this labor. Could you do what you do with forced labor with people who are being forced to do it?

[Cash Patel]

No. First of all, you gotta love what you're doing. You know, you can't get out here and do this kind of physical labor and not love the land and not love the commodity and things that you grow. The only reason I'm a farmer, Joy, is one. I'm a generational farmer and I love what I'm doing. I'm out here with no farm operating on because this administration put a fork in us. That's the first thing. And I'm not out here because you know, I feel good. I like, because I love what I do and I'm not going to let this administration take me out. So that's the first.

[Joy Reid]

Let me ask you this question because I recall and we covered on my, on my MSNBC show when Joe Biden's administration finally made good on a promise to make a $2 billion restitution to Black farmers like yourself. And you were the leader of fighting for this because the Department of Agriculture had for many, many, many decades denied black farmers equal access to loans, et cetera. That $2 billion settlement was challenged by Stephen Miller. Essentially this administration has walked back on it and said that you can't provide any specific benefit to black farmers. That that money has to go to white farmers instead. What did you make of that?

[Cash Patel]

I'm telling you right now, we went from absolutely bad to super worse here, Joy, because first of all, I've been trying to get debt relief, which was the 5 billion I've been trying to get. And we wanted by an act of Congress in 2021, Stephen Miller went around and organized white farmers and law firms to sue me and other black farmers in federal court and different federal courts where the judgeships were stacked in favor of Republicans. That's what they do, people. And they sued us in Florida and Texas and they won a temporary injunction. Joy. I had to raise money, and I love my people. Close your ears. But we get $25, and that's a lot of money or 100 bucks or something like that. Stephen Miller was able to raise millions of dollars in his campaign, and I had to hire law firms at each one of those states to defend ourselves and push back on this rhetoric of this reverse discrimination of Stephen Miller was doing with these white farmers. White farmers ain't never been spat on in this country by usda. White farmers ain't never been called a nigger in this country by usda. They never had one day a week to be serviced by our country. And we named it Black Wednesday in Virginia. It's the only day they received black farmers. Joe, I personally experienced all these things. So when they say it's reverse discrimination, what reverse discrimination? When you got all of the money and primarily all of the land and all of the subsidies, all. And blacks receive $200 on average performer in this country, and the top 10% in the U.S. farm subsidy program receives $1 million. These white farmers, we're not even on the map. So they really played these courts and they used Republicans to do that. And we always playing catch up the same way we are right now. We have to organize right now. And thank God for people like you, Joel, who had the guts and tenacity to speak out every night about the hardships that people like me face every night. And I know you were receiving pushback. Thank God for a face like you and a voice like you who stood up against all of this atrocities that this administration wants to do to our people. That's the first thing we gotta organize, mobilize and support each other right now. Right now. And don't let them win, you know, and for Donald Trump and his people who are listening to your show, and they listen to you, George, because they're afraid of you. They want to see what you're talking about tonight. Here's my message to the President. There's only one king and he's sitting high and he's looking low and he doesn't like what he's doing. And my grandmother named. She was a sharecropper. Her name is Ruth Robinson. She said, you keep on doing bad There's a stick out yonder with your name on it and you're gonna find it and step on it. The president is gonna step on a stick that's out there waiting for him. Give him a little time, Drew. It won't be the day or tomorrow, but if he continues to do this arrogance and demeanor and treating blacks and Hispanics and other people of color wrong in this country, he's going to step on that stick. Just give him a little time.

[Pam Bondi]

What makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker?

[John Boyd Jr.]

It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost.

[Pam Bondi]

Their designer quality frames start at $95, including prescription lenses, plus scratch resistant, smudge resistant and anti reflective coatings and UV protection and free adjustments for life. To find your next pair of glasses, sunglasses or contact lenses, or to find the Warby Parker store nearest you, head over to warby parker.com that's warby parker.com.

[Joy Reid]

John Boyd Jr. It is a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you so much. The compliments were unneeded, but you, they were very kind. I appreciate you. Keep fighting. Keep fighting and the door is open for you to come back here anytime.

[Cash Patel]

Thank you so much for having me. God bless you.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you. All right, y'. All. And you should understand too, that when you cut US aid, understand that you're hurting farmers like John Boyd Jr because a lot of that, a lot of what we were sending to other countries to try to combat poverty and hunger in other countries came from farmers like Mr. Boyd. It is farmers who get hurt when you cut off those programs because that was actually, in a sense, a subsidy to them. When you cut food stamps, farmers are providing a lot of the wheat and soybeans, et cetera, that are going into the foods that then get purchased by people who have snap. So when you cut snap, you're actually hurting American farmers. Because remember, the original food stamp program was a green and a red stamp. One of them was a farm subsidy, direct farm subsidy, and the other one, you had to purchase farm products with it. That was the idea. It was each hand helping each other and understand that black farmers have been even more behind the eight ball, as Mr. Boyd Jr. Has spoken about, because they've gotten fewer subsidies, fewer opportunities and fewer programs. And then just the final, they finally got a settlement through the Biden administration. And this character Stephen Miller was like, nope, you can't do that. That's racist. Against white people who apparently also need to be brought from South Africa to have farms here. And forced labor by people who are on Medicaid that is where we're at. It is a very, very strange world. I want to read some of your comments. I want to go through here. There's lots and lots and lots of people here. We're going through. We're going through. We're going through. We're going through, we're going through. I'll find some comments. I'm going to do it later. I'm just keep going. God bless John Boyd and his farm business, says Joyce Johnson. Thank you, demero Singleton. So this is an excellent educational program. Thank you very much. We've got Come on Stick says Linda Lawson. Linda Lawson is rooting for the stick. Pamela Lee is saying hello to the readers. Dawn Shepard says it's up to us. That is absolutely, absolutely true. And people need to understand that all of these things that are being done when it comes to attacking Home Depot and rounding people up there, you're hurting Home Home Depot because a lot of the building trades rely on undocumented labor. It is not ideal. It is suboptimal, as they say, that this country is so addicted to cheap labor. This country began on the idea of free labor. It made this country into an empire. We were a cotton empire because of free labor. And after getting hundreds of years of free labor from black people, then this country rolled over to cheap labor. They tried Italian labor, which was down south. You had a lot of Italians in places like New Orleans who were working as sharecroppers as cheap labor. They went and grabbed Puerto Rico in order to get cheap brown labor. We annexed a big chunk of Mexico, which is why there are so many Mexican Americans in places like Colorado and California and New Mexico. That was Mexico. But when the United States grabbed that country, they said, oh look, brown people, cheap labor. We brought in Chinese cheap labor to build our railroads. They provided the back breaking labor to connect the east and the west coast of the United States. That cheap labor wound up living mainly in California. But they were literally excluded from continuing to immigrate here in a 1924 immigration act designed to keep the country as white as possible and completely exclude Asians from being able to migrate here. But they wanted their labor. They just didn't want them to come bring their wives and children and start families here because they didn't want them to grow in numbers. Well, surprise, surprise, they've already done that. Asian Americans actually outnumber African Americans in the state of California because people do bring their families. Men don't come here just to build railroads and not want to have a family. And so they have a family, and all of a sudden you've got more Asian Americans. But the reason that we have so much diversity in this country, the reason we have Filipinos here, which is the largest Asian American group, the reason that we have Puerto Ricans, the reason we have Puerto Rico, is because of this constant corporate quest to replace the free labor of black people with the cheap labor of brown people. And just serially replacing that cheap labor and then being shocked and surprised when those people have families and grow in number, and then getting mad about the demographic changes. But the demographic changes are your fault, America. You wanted cheap labor, now you got it. And now we have an agricultural sector that is very, very much dependent on undocumented labor. And by the way, it's not just the agricultural sector. The hotel and hospitality sector is, too. Just ask Donald Trump, who's used H1B visa labor at Mar a Lago for decades. He relies on foreign labor so that he can pay them less than what he would probably pay Americans to do to be the porters and the cooks and the maids, et cetera, at Mar a Lago and I'm sure, at all his other golf courses. So even Donald Trump understands that foreign labor is necessary for him to be rich. And so all of these companies that are super reliant and dependent on all of these sources of cheap labor, they just don't like it when they then walk into a Walgreens and people are speaking Spanish. You're mad about it, but you do also want their work. So now if you start to terrify that labor where they're too afraid to go to work in the fields, too afraid to go to work, too, at Home Depot, too afraid to go to work at a restaurant, being a dishwasher or a cook, guess what's going to happen to those businesses, businesses like Mr. Boyd's farm. He doesn't use undocumented labor, he says, but other farms do. And those farms are going to start to lose business, or food is going to be incredibly expensive because we're going to have to pay more for food that is being produced by either more expensive labor or fewer laborers. And so the idea of doing that and at the same time throwing up tariffs against imports and at the same time shutting down agencies that actually do business with farmers, it is as if Donald Trump wants the economy to collapse, wants things to be more expensive, wants inflation to go up. And I'm not sure why he's doing that. And then at the same time, he could just as easily assuage his own supporters by doing things like releasing the Epstein files. That would keep them busy. If you just release the things that you promised you were going to release. And you won't do that either. Why not? There's a lot that's curious that's going on in the Trump regime at the moment. And we're going to keep looking at it, we're going to keep talking about it, we're going to keep noodling on it because there are weird things going on. It is a scary time. Please be safe out there. And unfortunately, if you're a brown person, you're now living essentially in white South Africa in the 80s and having to bring ID with you everywhere and having to bring your passport, court and proof of your citizenship everywhere you go because you might get arrested. What's that about? I appreciate y' all watching the Joy Reed Show. We'll be back on Monday with more show more great guests. Be sure to hit subscribe. Hit that like button so that we know that you like what we're doing. Hit subscribe so that you can grow and be part of our family. We want the readers family to be big, big, big. So make sure that you don't just lurk that you also subscribe to and also share this. And we appreciate y'. All. Thank you to all that have joined Team tjrs. Don't worry. I promise you our Team TJRS private chat is coming. It's coming. It's coming very soon. Thank you all for tuning in and we'll see you on the next the Joy Read Show. Bye Bye.

[Cash Patel]

This music off the shelf hurt, don't it? Damn bit. I'm getting back to my basics, bouncing on my ones, counting on my tools, sitting on my threes. Sam.