← The Joy Reid Show
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- [00:05]
A
Okay. Well, well, well. Happy Wednesday, everybody. Welcome to the Joy Reid Show. Big ups to everybody that's tuning in on YouTube. Looking at YouTube over here on Substack, on Subset, right in front of me, Facebook, the adorable Twitchies on Twitch. Hello, Twitchies. As well as everybody that's listening on an audio podcast platform like Apple or Spotify, wherever you're listening to. And LinkedIn. Oh, wait a minute. We have Linkedies. Hello, Linkedies. Hello. Oh, well, welcome to everybody. Thank you all for being here. We appreciate everyone. Since Wendy retired, I feel like somebody has to keep saying, who are you doing? So somebody has to keep who are you doing alive? And I'm an OG Wendy fan, so we're going to keep that alive. So what are you doing, everybody? Please be sure to hit that like and share button. Please hit subscribe. We are motoring. We are. We are all the way at 427,000 subscribers and counting. We're a juggernaut. 206,000 subscribers on the stack substack growing quickly. We have about more than 400,000 subscribers on Facebook. We are a mighty TJRS Nation on every platform. And our Twitchies are growing. We want our Twitchies to, like, show out. And of course, LinkedIn. Who knew? Welcome, LinkedIn. We're going to make sure we say hi to you guys, too. So special big ups to our team, TJRS members. We love you guys. Y' all are all amazing. So, okay, so last night, thank you to everybody that hung out with us for primary night coverage. It was the first primary night of the season. Let's go through first. And by the way, before I get to the primary night, yes, we do know Christy Noem is getting roasted for the second hearing in a row. Congresswoman Kumlage or Dove asked probably the most salient question about who she might be sleeping with. We will have Congresswoman Sydney Komlager Dove on this show on Monday. So get your questions geared up for her because she's going to have probably a lot of answers of what she heard and whether she got any answers as to who Kristi Noem might be snogging with. Lots of questions. Also about that luxury plane with a bed in it. Why do you need that to be the Department of Homeland Security? I don't know why that is, but tonight we're going to focus on Iran and this war that Donald Trump has walked us into and why we're in it. We're also going to focus on some of the disgusting Islamophobia that you've seen come out of the maga. Right. We've got a very special guest to talk about that. But we do want to start by talking about last night. About we're going to start with it about last night. Hello to everybody that is saying hello to us in the chats. So last night was the first prominent Mary night of the season. Here's some of the high notes, the highlights. Our buddy Chris Jones one, he advanced to the general election in Arkansas, our rocket scientist friend where he has a chance to flip a House seat. Republicans, if they lose four House seats, they no longer control the House. Democrats need to pick up a net for this is one of those seats that actually could be picked up. And he's a brilliant guy. So we're looking forward to that. He came on the show last night. Thank you to Chris. Former Governor Roy Cooper will advance to the general election in the key state of North Carolina is which is a prime target for Democrats to try to flip a seat in the United States Senate. Now there, it's a more daunting exercise. They need a daunting six seat pickup and I know that sounds like similar numbers, but it's much harder in the Senate. They've got a bigger row to hoe, unfortunately. Even though Democrats used to have 60 seats and when Obama was elected, but don't get me started on that, but he's going to face former Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Watley in that race. And he was literally, Roy Cooper was literally the best case scenario candidate for Democrats since he has never lost a race in the great state of North Carolina. So people are excited about that. Then there was the great state of Texas, which you know, was a mixed bag for Democrats and Republicans alike. As Trump's interference with the maps getting sucker Governor Greg Abbott and the pick me legislature in Texas to redraw the maps, it actually wound up hurting Republicans and Democrats alike. One of our faves of a liberated Democrat, the cane shaker Al Green. His district was deeply gerrymandered. Remember they scooped out a bunch of it and it was 9 and 18. They kind of swapped their electorates. He is now going to face a runoff. It looked like he was losing that race last night. He got fewer votes, but he will now go into a runoff with Christian Menifee, who is a prosecutor. He's going to face him in May in a runoff. That's going to be a generational divide in which the younger candidate is challenging the legendary Al Green. So that happened on the other side of the aisle. Dan Crenshaw, the eyepatch guy the eyepatch wearing MAGA conservative and frequent Fox guest became the first Republican incumbent to outright lose his seat in a primary this cycle. He got got by an even even further right challenger. And in one of those seats that was touched by gerrymandering so they made the seat redder and a redder candidate won. So sometimes when you play with the maps it bites you as well. And that happened there. Another person that kind of got got who was feeling really good after Texas gerrymandering made the state feel like, you know, mag, sort of they're just asserting themselves. They were unstoppable. Well, Chip Roy, the right wing budget hawk who once called for the return of hanging AKA lynching and for its way of doing the death penalty. And who's the guy who fake nominated Byron Donald of Florida, Remember that? To be House speaker to try to match Democrats energy because they nominated Hakeem Jeffries. He is running to replace the very corrupt current Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who's running for Senate. He wound up he in a runoff. He did not win that outright. So now he has to face a runoff. Paxton himself will also face a runoff in that race which is going to pit him against the incumbent Senator John Cornyn, who's been in office since 2002 a quarter century. And now this Senate race, the Democratic and Republican Senate race is now officially the most expensive political primary in US history with ad spending that topped a whopping $110 million across the two parties. Between pro and anti candidate spending, it's like massive. You can see it there. You had most of the spending took place on the Republican side. Most of it went to support John Cornyn. You had a lot of spending for little, poor little Wesley hunt who got 13% of the vote and spoiled the opportunity for either Cornyn or Paxton to get a clean win. Wesley Hunt with his little 13% kept everybody in the 40s. You had anti Hunt ads where people tried to take down Wesley hunt. It's about 5.4 million were spent. Antique corny ads, about 3.6 million. Ken Paxton, 3.6 million. On the Democratic side you saw this massive, massive ad support for James Talarico which dwarfed the amount of money spent for Jasmine Crockett. You can see that particularly after that Colbert bump. Talarico was rolling in dough. He had like you know, 20,000 volunteers or some insane number of volunteers because he just had so much money and lots and lots and lots of ad spending. But of course that was the big news last night that everyone was waiting for was the outcome of that Democratic Senate primary between Democratic congressional star Christy Gnome, by the way, today, and rising tech star James Talarico. So the race took place amid some real shenanigans. You could. That's a nice way of putting it by Texas authorities, including Paxton himself, who helped make the outcome of the race look incredibly shady to many people who were on our chat last night and many people in Texas who were looking at it going, so something's wrong here, right? Because as the returns came in and Dallas was just lagging and was blank and there were no numbers for a long time, Representative Crockett eventually came out where she was. You know, she was at her, her watch party in Dallas. She eventually came on stage at close to 11pm last night and this is how she explained what was going on.
- [08:32]
B
So I just want to be clear. There's a lot that took place specifically in Dallas County. I'm sure you've been watching the returns and none of the returns out of Dallas county are quite in yet. Dallas county should have the second largest voter participation of any county in this state. We don't have any other results because there was a lot of confusion today. And so, you know, our Democratic Party chair, Cardall Coleman, he beat me to the punch. As myself and Colin Allred, we're about to file a lawsuit to keep the voting polls open. We were able to keep the polls open, but I can tell you now that people have been disenfranchised. The reason that we knew that there were problems is because we were receiving the phone calls and the emails. The polls were supposed to stay open until 9, according to a court order. The Supreme Court just a few minutes ago just said shut it down. The Supreme Court also said that they are to separate any votes out that came in after 700pm so here's the deal. I have no idea how it is that clerks are going to know who was in line by what time because the rule is that if you're in line by seven, then you get to vote. And so once there was a court order saying you had until nine, I'm sure that there were people that joined the line after seven. They now are telling them that you have to separate the votes out. What this means is that we will not know what votes are to be tallied from election day out of Dallas County. For sure, we won't know that tonight. So knowing that Dallas county is a big dump of votes, we, in my opinion, will not know the election results overall tonight. We need to see the Dallas county votes to See where they are. I mean, if the early vote comes in, which we may have the early vote soon, if it comes in and I'm losing Dallas county, then. Then we know kind of where this thing is going.
- [11:13]
A
Well, she did not, in fact, lose Dallas County. Jasmine Crockett won Dallas county when finally the votes very slowly came in. But she didn't win it by enough to carry the night because. Or to cut into James Talario's lead, as you all saw as we were going through the votes last night, you know, hour by hour, minute by minute. And so this morning, Jasmine Crockett conceded. We can put up her post. This morning, I called James and congratulated him on becoming the Senate nominee. Texas is primed to turn blue, and we must remain united because this is bigger than any one person. This is about the future of all 30 million Texans and getting America back on track. With the primary behind us, Democrats must rally around our nominees and win. I'm committed to doing my part to, and will continue working to elect Democrats up and down the ballot that will include her pastor, that she's going to be working to elect the Reverend Freddie Haynes, Frederick Douglass Haynes, who won his primary race for her seat. So her seat will stay blue. And Reverend Freddie Haynes is overwhelmingly favored to win it. But that was a concession. And so now I want to let you hear the speech by the victor in the Democratic primary last night, James Tallarico.
- [12:33]
C
Thank y' all so much. I appreciate y'.
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A
All.
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C
Thank you for staying up.
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D
Thank you.
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C
Thank you. Tonight. Tonight, our campaign is shocking the nation. We. We are still waiting for an official call, but we are confident in this movement we've built together.
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D
Every.
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C
Every vote must be counted. Every voice must be heard. The voter suppression in my home county and in Congresswoman Crockett's home county, yours. The gravity of this moment, this movement, is about whether the people will hold the power in this state and in this country. We. We launched this underdog campaign six months ago in my hometown of Round Rock, Texas. And since then, and since then, tens of thousands of Texans have shown up to rally with us in every corner of the state, from Beaumont to El Paso, from Amarillo to Brownsville and everywhere in between. We have recruited more than 28,000 thousand volunteers who are organizing in every community across this state. And we have shattered grassroots fundraising records, all without taking a dime from corporate PACs. This, this is a people powered movement to take on this broken, corrupt political system. This is truly a campaign of, by, and for the people. We are not. We are not just trying to win an election. We are trying to fundamentally change our politics. And it's working. The number of young people who showed up to vote in this election is unprecedented. The number, the number of Texans who have never voted before but showed up in this election is unprecedented. The number of independents and Republicans who voted in this Democratic primary is unprecedented. This, this is proof that there is something happening in Texas tonight. Tonight, the people of our state gave this country a little bit of hope. And a little bit of hope is a dangerous thing. I want to thank y'.
- [15:14]
D
All.
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C
Thank you for being here. Thank you for being in this fight. God bless you all. Thank you.
- [15:22]
A
Now, I am looking at the chats and they're about where they were team and the team TJRS team and all the moderators. We were, we were talking about this last night and the chats were quite negative toward Mr. Talarico. But here, here's the reality. Here is the reality. Texas is not even on the list for the Cook Political Reports. Sort of its likelihood of a flip, but it is also not in the solid R category either. If you look at the races that Democrats are facing, in order to pick up the Senate, right, to climb above the Republicans, 53 votes, they need to flip six seats. They need to hold all the seats they have, and they need to flip a bunch of seats. And this is not. There are three cycles for Senate elections because senators serve for six years, whereas House members serve for two years and have to run every two years. Senators serve for six. So that every six years, every, basically every two years, there's another cycle, right? And so some cycles are good for the Democrats because lots of Republicans are up in states, in states that Kamala Harris won or that Democrats won. And sometimes it's a good year for Republicans because lots of Democrats in red states are up. That previous cycle, the one we just had in 2024, was an excellent cycle for Republicans because you had a lot of Democrats who were up in states up for reelection in states like Ohio and Montana, people who were red state Democrats who had held onto those red seats. And then they came up for their cycle and it was a blowout election because Trump at the top of the ticket, you know, his voters voted all the way down ticket for Republicans and people like Sherrod Brown lost their seats. Who are popular Democrats in Ohio? Well, the current cycle is sort of a mild red cycle. It's sort of a red but reddish cycle because Trump is so deeply unpopular. He's at 35% approval, he's underwater on every issue from immigration to the economy, which is the big issue. He's just underwater, period. And so Democrats feel like this might be the time when they could add Texas to their column. They think it's possible. It's not going to be easy. It's going to be possible. Now they're either going to face Ken Paxton or they're going to face John Cornyn, the incumbent. Paxton they'd prefer because he's so corrupt and cray cray that they feel like he'd be an easier target. And this sort of theory of the case is which kind of Democrat would be better against him? A James Talarico, who tries to appeal to the other side, who wants to convert Republicans and bring them across the line, or Jasmine Crockett, who motorizes the base, who literally motivates base voters and also non voters. My personal theory of politics has always been that the base is more important and that you can maybe start talking about conversion. But when your base is solid and your base is motivated and your base isn't motivated, the idea that you're going to suddenly convert people on the other side, to me seems suboptimal. It doesn't seem possible to me. I am very skeptical of the idea that people who are hardcore Republicans are going to suddenly vote for a Democrat because he's a nice Christian guy. I don't think that that is possible. Whereas my theory was that Jasmine Crockett would motivate and register more voters and bring more energy to a ticket. And also she attracts more sort of rage on the other side. And so in a way, she kind of felt like a candidate that had more going for her in a general, even though either one would be climbing a huge hill to try to win an election in a very red state like Texas. But let's dig into it. We got a couple of really great guests. But let's start with Tom Bonier. Tom is a veteran, veteran, veteran Democratic political strategist and the chief executive officer of the excellent polling research organization Target Smart. You probably read their data on X Twitter on election nights. But here's the man who's actually putting the numbers out. Tom, when you look at the way that this race played out last night, these two theories of the case that these two candidates were making the conversion candidate, the, you know, the. There was a path, what we call the preacher and the prophet, right? That's what Robbie Jones called it. The preacher who says, I can bring these maggots to the, to the altar. And the prophet who just said, come with Me, if you want to live. You know, it turned out that his strategy was stronger. His ground game was really strong. He was very organized. But what do you think he comes out of this election with? Does he come out with momentum, or does he come out with a lot of work to do?
- [20:13]
E
I think he comes out with both, frankly. I mean, Texas, as you and I both know, because we've all been through many cycles, through many cycles where we look at Texas and we say, maybe this is the year. Maybe it was Beto in 2018, you know, and we've come close to be fair. But there was a certain element of this where we thought, you know, demographics or destiny. And eventually Texas is going to get to the point where the dam will break and it will become a Democratic state. And obviously that hasn't happened, and demographics haven't been destiny, as we all know very well, just because of a lot of confounding factors. And so, yes, it would be a tough hill to climb for either of the candidates, as you said, no matter what. Winning the way that he won, I do think gives him some momentum, where it's like, okay, we've checked a couple boxes. For me, I think one of the biggest boxes that he checked was the problems that Democrats have had in Texas with Hispanic voters have been well documented and they have been substantial. And he performed quite well with Hispanic voters. When you look at that performance, especially in South Texas, it's impressive. Again, it's checking one of many boxes that will need to be checked between now and Election Day to be able to make this a competitive election. But I do think there's some momentum there.
- [21:35]
A
I'm looking at social media and among black Texans and really black voters nationwide, and even in our chats on both substack, but even more so on our YouTube chat, there's been a lot of real anger about this win and the way it was done. What do you think that the interference of the Texas Supreme Court and Ken Paxton in doing what sure did look like voter suppression. Is there a way in the data to see if that winds up harming the Democrats writ large, or is it something they just need to look out for in the next in the general election cycle?
- [22:17]
E
You know, I think we'll see when we. When we get the individual turnout data, which will take a little bit to actually see who voted. You know, we have the early vote data, which was substantial. I think almost 1.2 million Democrats voted before election day, but there's another million or so that voted on election Day. And the point that you flagged me, you've been talking about in terms of what likely limited, you know, certainly limited some number of voters from actually casting about. We'll be able to look at that, see a little bit more closely to your point about the impact that can potentially have in November. You know, I, I don't think it's something we can ignore. You know, as the, the, the famous saying about Texas, it's not a red state or a blue state. You know, it's a voter suppression state. Yeah, we, we've seen a lot of issues there. We've seen Republicans actively work to deny, especially people of color, the vote. And so, you know, I, I think that's a huge concern. I think when you're telling people to come out in November, there has to be a confidence that they're going to be able to vote, that their vote will count. And, you know, obviously this primary election, to have those issues, that's not something that gives people a lot of confidence. I do believe that it's surmountable, but again, it's going to take some work.
- [23:33]
A
Yeah. Indeed. All right, well, join me now. Is somebody who actually worked on the Jasmine Crockett campaign, a prolific presence online and social media. Elizabeth Booker, Houston. She's a lawyer and political commentator. She explains legal things really, really well, but also took some time out of her very busy life to try to help Jasmine Crockett win in Texas. Elizabeth, I've been spending some time on your Threads account and you posted this and I'm going to read it to the audience and we don't have to show, but I'll read it to you. You said, hey, she isn't running anymore. She's no longer a threat to Talarico on the ground in the election. It's okay to admit that a lot of the things that were said about her, meaning Jasmine Crockett, were lies. Like she took APAC money or had a different stance from Talarico on Israel or that she didn't support Medicare for All, or that she took crypto money in 2022, or the most hurtful, that she didn't care about people and only wanted to be famous. If you want the black community to come together, please do right by our girl. The react, the replies are a, a burning, a burning bush of rage by black women in particular. And that's what I am detecting. Talk about on the ground, how what was happening in Texas, how steep was this voter suppression? And what level of anger are you hearing out of the state right now from Jasmine Crockett's? Voters.
- [25:01]
F
So I am hearing anger about a few different things. The first is, of course, the voter suppression that was happening in Dallas County. People are very upset about that. I was at the watch party in Dallas last night, and we were all talking about the updates of what was going on, that there was that voter suppression happening and of course, course, the emergency extension on the poll times, which then of course, Ken Paxton challenge at the Texas State Supreme Court. And then they put in the temporary order and all of that mess. So folks are feeling like, hey, first of all, what does it matter if we vote if they're going to go ahead and just suppress our vote anyway? It seems like the Republicans always do what they want to do anyway. And then we have a lot of anger from just people are not dumb.
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A
They.
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F
They witnessed a lot of the massage noir and anger and hate that was coming at Jasmine Crockett for months from the moment she announced she was going to run. I mean, like, I shared that was a lot of disinformation that was very intentionally put out there. She never took APAC money. She said on your show, Joy, at the beginning of December that she would not take APAC money. She. She's. It's. It's bothering me because she's. Everything that they claim they didn't want, like, or what they. What they did want from Kamala Harris, there was this complaint of, well, Kamala Harris took APAC money and she was a prosecutor cop, and she wants to work with Republicans like Liz Cheney. Why are we courting Republicans? And so here comes Jasmine to say, I don't take APAC money. I'm not going to. I was a public defender who took pro bono cases for. For, you know, activists, including Black Lives Matter activists. And I'm not trying to court Republicans. I think we just need to inspire our own base. She was doing everything that a lot of progressives claimed that they wanted. But as soon as they got a black woman who was actually ready and capable to do it and check the boxes, lies came out just one after another. And I was constantly, along with the other creators in the program, debunking things. The. The crypto money was the wildest one because people don't know the difference between donations and independent expenditures. And that was some clever framing, because what it was, in 2022, they. There was this PAC that was focused on pandemic response and said that they thought Jasmine Crockett would be better at public health and pandemic response. So they spent a million dollars in independent expenditures, meaning that they just bought ads and whatever else and mailers on her campaign, not giving her money, not coordinating with her. They decided they wanted her to be the one to win, so they spent their own money. You cannot coordinate with candidates on this. And it just so happened that the pack focused on pandemic response was backed by a crypto bro. And so from that, we got the disinformation of Jasmine Crockett. Took crypto money. That's how insane the leaps were. And it was so difficult to keep just trying to knock down this disinformation, one thing after another.
- [28:00]
A
We also heard that there was some bot purchasing maybe going on, and we don't know if that was coming from the Talarico campaign, but there were bots that were used. It was sort of a real kind of relentless campaign, but it was very organized. I'll give Talarigo credit for being incredibly organized, having lots of volunteers on the ground. Before I get more data. Number before data here. Elizabeth, from your point of view, just as somebody who studies these campaigns, I know you're. I know you're in. You're in tenure in the great state of Tennessee, but you're sort of. You're a national figure.
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F
I'm in D.C. actually. Native.
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A
Native American.
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F
I'm actually parked on the Hill right now because speaking of Senate races, I just finished an interview with Abdul Al Said, who was running for Senate in Michigan, so. Oh, nice around. Yeah.
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A
Okay. We're gonna have to have you on to talk about that, too. I'm very interested in that race as well. What, in your view? And since we got. We got a data guy on here, and I want him to really dig into sort of what it would take. On the numbers side, Jasmine Crockett lost this race by about 2. Less. Little less than 200,000 votes. It was 52.4 to 46.2. But what you saw was more Democrats voted than Republicans in this primary, which I think is, like, never happened in, like, a generation in Texas. So Democrats have the energy. In your view, what would James Talarico have to do to get not just a sort of, you know, rote percentage of Jasmine Crockett's vote, but to get more than just sort of a dutiful percentage of the vote? Because he needs volume, not just percentages.
- [29:29]
F
He's gonna have to make a real effort with black voters. He's gonna have to. I mean, we're gonna have to see bridges be mended. There are people who are very upset, black voters in Texas who were very upset by what they saw as far as the mistreatment and disinformation against Jasmine, even against people who like me, who were working on the campaign. I recently dealt with someone who was really lobbing a bunch of Massage Noir and created a racist caricature of me because I work with the campaign.
- [30:02]
A
And we should call that person's name. They're called Rogue dnc. And we should. Yes. Yeah, go on.
- [30:09]
F
Yeah, his name is Louis Maganya, and, yeah, he runs the Rogue DNC account. And he had been harassing a group of black women for months now, who he just saw as being connected to Jasmine Crockett. Lenae Vani was the next person he came up because of her interview with Jasmine, which she called out and said, please don't misrepresent my interview or use it to enact Massage Noir against another black woman. He was very. I will just say rude, which is an understatement to her. I defended her. And then he came back with what I can only describe as a caricature of me. And so the NAACP had to make a statement. There were articles in the GRIO and Black Enterprise. I mean, this. This became much more than just criticism of a candidate or even maybe some information that was wrong about her voting record. It was straight up Massage Noir. It was misogyny. It was racism targeted at black women and black women who were part of the campaign or even, like I said, people who are just perceived to be connected to Jasmine, even if they were not. And so what we're going to need to see is there. There's going to have to be a real, genuine and targeted outreach to black voters for Talarico to distance himself, what. From what we were seeing with what people have perceived as his surrogates. These were not people who work with this campaign. But again, perception is everything to folks. He's going to have to make a real effort to actively say, I don't condone this. I don't condone the way that Representative Jasmine Crockett was treated. I don't condone the racism. And here's what I'm doing to reach out to black voters, and here's what I can offer for you as your senator. We're going to have to see those steps, because quite frankly, black folks in America have just been burned way too many times. And black women are constantly, constantly under attack. And Jasmine Crockett, as beloved as she is in our community, that. That's really. I just. I still just can't believe the hatred that came her way. I tell everybody the loss is hurtful. But all of the hatred and racism that came before the loss, that's what's cutting this so very deep. And it wasn't, it wasn't just maga. It wasn't Republicans. We were seeing this from people who consider themselves Democrats, progressives, leftists, people who are supposed to be for us and support us, and they were not.
- [32:27]
A
And so, Tom, to come back to you for just a moment because I'm look, I'm just looking at this map here and the Talarico dark blue is, it's very heavily in West Texas, South Texas and Central Texas and Northwest Texas. The Jasmine Crockett light blue is more East Texas. In order for, can Talarico win a general the way he won the primary? When you just look at the data, if he does not overperform among African American voters, is there a way he can put together enough votes to beat either Cornyn or Paxton, in your view?
- [33:11]
G
No.
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E
I mean, for any Democrat to win in Texas, again, we talked about this notion that demographics are destiny and then we found out, no, they're not. Right. It provides an opportunity. But what that means is for a Democrat to win, they, they have to be able to win with overwhelming margins with voters of color and get overwhelming turnout. And you know, again, the good news is we saw that level of engagement from voters of color. We saw this record setting turnout. The highest turnout says to the point you made a moment ago, this is the highest turnout we've seen in a Democratic primary since the Obama primary in 2008. And that was a presidential campaign. So that's, you know, kudos to everyone who did that and made that happen. The other thing to me that was encouraging just in the early vote now, because again, we don't have the election day vote history yet, but was that you did see young voters engaged. And so to the extent that Democrats have had problems not just in Texas, but around the country, there are some very positive things there. But again, it's only positive if we're able to bring this coalition together, this surge in youth voters where they were only 6% of the early vote in the 2022, the last Democratic primary, in a midterm, they went up to almost 10%. And young black voters surged by more than any other group. So to the conversation we're having here, it points to both the opportunity, but to the necessary work to be done to be able to take advantage of that opportunity and actually win this race.
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A
Yeah. Because if those young voters then are mainly Jasmine voters and they're turned off and they don't show up in November, then that gives the Republicans a chance to purge them and they can't vote. You know, I mean, it becomes a whole vicious cycle. Last question to you on this. Go on, please.
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F
I'm so sorry. Can we address the elephant in the room as well that I feel like not enough people are pointing out is that people who showed up to vote for Jasmine voted for Jasmine. There are definitely people who showed up to vote for Talarico, not for Talarico, but against the black woman running. And when there's no black woman running against him, how is that going to impact his voter turnout? If that's what inspired them to show up in the first place? If it's a white man against a white man and that's what they're looking at, can he overcome that? And I don't have data to support that.
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A
Yeah.
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F
So I don't want to act like I do. But based on what we're seeing, just as far as discourse and discussion, you know, that's something he should be prepared for and preemptively try to address.
- [35:34]
A
Well, and it's interesting because you kind of led me to the question that I did want to ask Tom about, because there was anecdotal evidence that there were some Republican voters who crossed over to vote in the Democratic primary to prevent Jasmine Crockett from winning because they just wanted to, you know, move her out of public life. We don't know how much of that really made a difference. But I had a question, particularly on Latino voters, because in the primary, they obviously, as you said, sort of over preferred, really preferred Talarico. Is that vote, though, a solid. Can Democrats count on that being a Democratic vote in November? Because we've seen that, particularly in Texas Latino voters who do participate, they participate in relatively low numbers for their population, but they tend to vote Republican. So should Democrats feel confident that what they saw is a surge of Democratic Latino votes or a temporary sort of marriage that ends when they have a Republican option?
- [36:28]
E
Democrats shouldn't feel confident about anything in Texas. Right now. Again, I think there's a great opportunity there. But you're right that Latino voters, especially when we look at the Rio Grande Valley, south Texas in general, that we've seen massive, massive swings over the last few cycles. You know, so, again, like the encouraging data there, there are a number of counties in South Texas where the total Democratic primary turnout in this. This particular turnout exceeded the number of votes that Vice President Harris received in 2024. And obviously that, that was, you know, A whole dynamic in terms of how and why that happened. That, that we don't have time to get into now. But we have discussed before. And so, but the reality is, so there's a good opportunity here. But to your point, if we assume that voted in the Democratic primary are certainly going to come back and vote Democrat in the general, it's not something we can take for granted. I think that's something that the campaign is certainly going to have to invest in substantially. And really, if I'm them, I'm treating them as swing voters.
- [37:29]
A
Right. And I think that is the point, I think that people are kind of not picking up on is that I'm looking at this map and every time I touch one of these dark blue Talarico district and then I scroll up and I touch that same district on the red district, I'm like, I don't know if this is it. It doesn't feel permanent. It feels like he's winning in the places where, where Trump won. Right. And that, and he's not a momdani. This isn't this. So I think that's the challenge. I appreciate both of you so much for coming on and talking about this. This is the thing that has been in all of my group chats across my group chat universe today. And so I appreciate both of you coming in to talk about it. And if I missed anything, does anybody, you guys have anything you that I've missed here? Have I missed anything, Elizabeth, that you want to throw in at the end?
- [38:18]
F
Just that I love and support Jasmine and I'm rooting for her. And I, I would have done this job again, you know, 20 times over, and I have no regrets.
- [38:27]
A
I think the chat agrees with you and Tom Von your. If you guys have not gotten enough, I can never get enough data. I am a super nerd and so I love data. I love numbers. And if you guys love them as much as I do, Tom is going to be the inaugural guest on a new thing that I'm doing on Substack starting tomorrow. I'm super excited about it so that we can do a deep dive on the numbers. And Tom, I would just, I'll just prep you right now to say that what I would really love to talk to you about tomorrow is the midterms and some of these southern states and maybe even we'll throw in Ohio because the question I have is can Democrats pull off this almost impossible 6 state role? They've got to go on. They've got to hit, they've got to get Things like Iowa, Alaska, Ohio. But also there are these southern races like Mississippi that I think they should spend some money in. So if you don't mind, that's what I'm going to get into with you tomorrow, Tom. And so I'm looking forward to that. So thank you so much. Elizabeth Booker, Houston, and Tom Bonier, thank you all very much. You guys are great.
- [39:25]
F
Thank you.
- [39:26]
A
Thank you. All right, see you tomorrow. Thank you very much. And so, yeah, that's it. If you guys are interested in getting into the deep, deep data, we are launching something called called the Joyce House Insiders. This is only on sub stack. So my sub stackies, this is something special for you guys. And this is only for premium substack members. So if you're not a member over@joann reid.com you can go over there and you can subscribe. So this is going to be a closed because it's just for the super nerd. This is just for people who just really want to sit and hear me and Tom talk about numbers and maps. Because it's like I love a map, I love a data. And so that's what we're going to do. Starting tomorrow, it's going to be Thursdays at noon. We're going to be going deep dives on the elections on the midterms. You all can let us know if there are races that you want to get into. But we're going to go, we're going to go deep and we're going to get into these numbers because I want to know if it's possible for Democrats to take back not just the House, which they're highly likely to do, but also the United States Senate. That's on Joann Reid.com, we call that Joyce House on substack. Okay? So I want to let you all know that we could not do the things that we do here in independent media without our amazing advertisers and one of the our faves. Faves. Faves. That the joy reacho is brought to you by in this episode are our friends at Remy. And you guys know that I'm in my Invisalign era. Y' all. See, I'm in my Invisalign era. So clenching and grinding my teeth, it's become like a lifestyle. But it doesn't need to be a lifestyle for everyone who wants to have that million dollar smile because look, the teeth grinding is worth it with my little Invisaligns. But you don't necessarily want to do it for tooth health. And if you deal with teeth grinding in your world, particularly when you sleep. You may want to join the 350,000Americans who trust our friends at Remy to keep your teeth in order. Remy night guards are clinically tested and FDA cleared to prevent teeth damage from grinding, to reduce jaw tension and facial facial muscle strain, and to improve your sleep quality. Because sleep is important, keeps the stress down. You get the same professional quality and comfort in a night guard from the dentist that you would get from the dentist for 80% less than the cost of taking your own by taking your own impression from the convenience of your home. So when you purchase your Remy, you get this little kit. It comes straight to your door, then you just open it. You follow Remy's step by step instructions to get your perfect impression. Remy then crafts and ships your custom fit night guard right to your door again. Then you get your night guard. You go, you start protecting your health. You get a good night's sleep. And Remy also makes amazing products like the ultrasonic cleaning device, which I literally use every day to keep my Invisaligns clean and buildup free. It is amazing. It makes a cute little sound. It's fabulous. They've also got whitening gels and all kinds of other great products to keep your teeth looking fab. So if you're ready to protect your teeth with Remy, just go to shopremy.com and use the code JOY J O Y to get 50% off. 50% off your new night guard. That is 50% off at shop.remy.com shopremy.com/joy and then use the code joy at checkout. So thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this episode. Shop Remy.com/joy. So you all would be forgiven if you have never heard of Sid Rosenberg. Now, back in the day, he was part of the Don Imus show.
- [42:38]
H
That was it. He had enough.
- [42:40]
E
Yes.
- [42:40]
A
And.
- [42:40]
H
And you'll be happy to know why, man, that your favorite basketball team, the Phoenix Suns, won their 15 straight game yesterday. But of course, before the game, Mike Francesa already knew that. My team's the Denver Nuggets. Oh, you like? Of course, because of AI's mom. You've always had an affinity for Allen Iverson's mother. Of course, I could see that. Well, I like mellow and mellow and. And the ants are playing well together. So I'm down with mellow. I'm down with Al Iverson. They've only played, played one or two games together. I'm not sure well, but they've done great. You know what you're on it. You're all over it. I man, are we on a delay? Is it, is it, are you hearing me like a second or two after I say stuff?
- [43:19]
D
No, he's just stupid.
- [43:25]
H
No, actually it is a little, it's a little like a second or two afterwards. I hear you. Okay, that's fine. You're slow. Or that you've been for all the crack you smoked is brain damage or something like that, right? It was a lot of years. I man, a lot of years, as you well know. How are you doing on. But you know, how are you doing on not drinking and not doing drugs? I'm doing great. I, you know, I've got a new addiction now and her name is Ava and she's my, my little girl. So I don't. Well that's, you know, it was, it was, it was a part of my life that, you know, look, you went through it. I man, and a lot of us have gone through it and it was a part of my life. I, I'd rather forget. So I'm, I'm doing great now and I don't do any of that stuff anymore.
- [44:03]
A
I'm done.
- [44:04]
H
Well, yeah, I went through it. It's not like I was in a hotel in Cleveland with a bunch of hookers, smoking crack, missing work, ready to jump out the window. I mean, don't you know. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I missed that night. You would have liked that. I had a couple.
- [44:17]
A
Did y' all see in the lower right hand corner that that at the time was the MSNBC morning show? Uhuh. Don Imus, he had a radio show that was literally the MSNBC morning show. And eventually Sid Rosenberg became Imus's co host. An occasional object of humiliation, as you just saw. He went from that to having his own show on ABC radio networks after Imus was fired by msnbc. He was fired because he and his co hosts joked about a majority black woman college basketball team as quote, nappy headed hoes during a live broadcast, causing even the friendly Today show weatherman Al Roker likes everybody to denounce him alongside the national association of Black Journalists and others. So Imus's firing, by the way, if you guys don't remember, this is what brought Reverend Al Sharpton to the artist formerly known as msnbc. They wound up giving him a show. And it's also what elevated the host of a show by an ousted Republican congressman from Florida from a little show called Scarborough country to MSNBC's new morning show, Morning Joe. Just as a Sidebar for those wanting to go down memory lane. So Sid's ABC radio show is, you know, it's typical stock jock right wing bullshit, which has given him a platform to air his maga vituperatively pro Israel views on air. Here he was at Madison Square Garden last year touting Donald Trump's election to a second non consecutive term.
- [45:52]
H
So I just got back from Israel about two weeks ago. They love Trump and Israel, just so you know, they love him. They love him and Bibi. They love them both. I'm in Israel and had the opportunity to break the Yom Kippur fast with Bibi Netanyahu. What an amazing night that was. Cried with Israelis in the streets. They listen to me from Jerusalem. They really do this. Like all of you. Listen to me, all of you. I get back and they go, sid, you want to speak at this MSG thing? I go, sure. Out of character for me to speak at a Nazi rally. I was just in Israel, but I took the gig. She is some sick basher, that Hillary Clinton, huh? What a sick son of a. The whole party, a bunch of degenerates, low lives, jewel haters and low lives. Every one of them. Every one of them. Look at my city. Look at my city. Yes, this building is beautiful. You're all beautiful. Look at you. But you can't walk outside past about 10 o' clock at night here if you're a pretty woman like my beautiful wife Danielle out there somewhere. You got punched across the face just for walking down the street. Who did that? Bill de Blasio, Eric Adams, shitty Democrat mayors Andrew Cuomo, Kathy Hochul, shitty Democrat governor. You got.
- [47:38]
A
Okay. Jazzy Renee said he looks like a thumb. That's why I laughed. Oh, Jazzy Renee on YouTube said he looks like a thumb. I'm sorry, I need to get myself together after that one. That's a good one. And for his latest trick, Rosenberg took to X Twitter to slam the mayor of New York City, Zorhan Mamdani, in the most repugnant, disgusting terms and most racist terms possible, begging Donald Trump to stop kneeling before his hometown mayor. Here's the tweet. Today I make a heartfelt plea to my friend and best President in the 250 year history of the country. Real Donald Trump. I know I speak on behalf of the majority of New Yorkers and Americans when I say stop complimenting and giving credibility to our, quote, jihadist America hating mayor, New York City Mayor Zorhan Mamdani. How many times is this? He calls him a terrorist. Sympathizer have to spit in your face. Mr. President, before you say enough is enough is over the top criticism of the Maduro capture Ice Bibi and now the great operation in Iran is too much for most of us. Bottom line, he's an America hating Jew, hating radical Islam and here's the word, cockroach. He called him a cockroach, wanting our once great beautiful city, saying, please put this little anti Semite in his place. God bless you, Donald Trump. God bless America. God bless Israel. Well, well, well. Now I would like to also remind you, since we're giving receipts about Mr. Rosenberg that this is not his first racist rodeo back in the day. He's also the guy who referred to Venus and Serena Williams as animals who would have better luck posing for National Geographic than for Playboy because he's a racist piece of shit. Joining me now is our very own producer, Nidha Khan, who also happens to be a longtime independent journalist and political commentator. Nidha, welcome to Coming from Behind the Scenes again. This is your second appearance on the Joy Reid Show. Front of camera.
- [49:47]
G
I'm so, so honored. I just moved myself to the stage. That was fun, you know, popping and saying hello.
- [49:53]
A
Absolutely. Well, let's talk about this because back in the day, you know, I remember I was doing, I was working radio when Don Imus crashed out by calling those women nappy headed hoes. And if you guys will recall, you know, he begged Reverend Sharpton to save him. And Reverend Sharpton's like, I'm not saving you. You know, you have to save yourself. You need to figure this out on your own. And he thought that that was a way to get out of it, but he wasn't able to get it. And Reverend Sharpton, you know, his insistence that they give justice to these young women and that they do right by them is one of the reasons the MSNBC producers or bosses at the time were like, we'd just love to have you come on and at least talk about social justice on our air. So that is the sort of history of that. And then somehow or other it, it morphed into Morning Joe. Well, because they needed a morning show and they decided anyway. They decided Morning Joe should get the show. So just I thought that was an interesting history. But for you right now, I don't think that Sid Rosenberg is going to take Rev's call to help him out of this mess. As a Muslim New Yorker, what are your thoughts on this man calling the mayor, the sitting mayor of New York, a cockroach?
- [51:02]
G
So he supposedly gave an apology today. And I believe Mamdani responded and said, you know, we're going to wait and see if he actually lives up to this. And I actually 1000% agree with Mayor Mamdani to see if Sid Rosenberg lives up to it going forward on his show. Because this is like you beautifully laid out Joy, as you always do, all the receipts. And I want to just add to that, too. So I'm glad you mentioned the Venus and Serena Williams in 2001. And also in the past, he said, and you know, it's crazy even saying these words because normal people like us don't use them. So it's odd to even read it out loud. But he said, quote, faggots play tennis. He called the U.S. women's National Soccer team. They he said they were a bunch of juiced up dykes when he was covering the NCAA women's division basketball championship. So his coverage of that is what then led to Don I missing the nappy. I can't even say the nappy headed hoes. The firing.
- [52:03]
A
I'm sorry. Well, so he's a lot. He's a. He's an OG Racist. He's a racist. And so the idea that, you know, you can have like one incident. Don Imus did not have a history of saying openly. He'd say a lot of crude things and things like that. It was a little out of character for him. But as you said, he's hanging with this guy, Sid Rosenberg, who is like a vicious human being. Let's play. You mentioned Zorhan Mamdani's response to Sid Rosenberg. Let's go ahead and play that, Jason, if we could.
- [52:33]
E
What do you think of Sid Rosenberg?
- [52:34]
H
He used the term.
- [52:36]
E
I know your police commissioner had dinner with him.
- [52:45]
I
So Muslims in this city for almost as long as we have been in this city have had to deal with those with power and platform dehumanizing us
- [53:00]
E
and
- [53:02]
I
to be called animals, insects, to be called a jihadist mayor, to be called a cockroach. This language is both painfully familiar to me as a Muslim New Yorker, but also as someone who was born in East Africa. And it is difficult to hear. It is also. There's also a reminder that the silence that often greets this kind of bigotry, this kind of Islamophobia, is what allows it to fester. The temptation to treat it as politics as usual. And I want to be very clear that I have far more urgent work in front of me than indulging the provocations of a man who trades in outrage and frankly, fears the city that we are looking to build, which is one where every single New Yorker who lives here, here can call it their home. I am not ashamed of who I am. I am not ashamed of my faith. I am not ashamed of being the first Muslim mayor in the history of our city. And there is no amount of racism that will change the way in which I lead or the commitment that I hold to each and every New Yorker in the city. Thank you so much.
- [54:11]
A
It was a brilliant response. And to the pain that he's speaking of. I mean, you posted about what Sid Rosenberg said, and you yourself, we have the receipts for what you faced just on X Twitter. Talk a little bit about being a Muslim woman in this environment where people like Sid Rosenberg sic the crazies. After you.
- [54:34]
G
First of all, Mamdani's response was absolutely eloquent, beautiful, perfectly executed. And that is why he's mayor of New York City. For me, I would not have been as nice as somebody said that about me. But honestly, the hardest part, like, I have a very thick skin, and I've been called this, honestly my entire adult life. I have been called a terrorist. I've been. I remember when the Boston Marathon bombing happened, they were like, oh, it was probably you that did it. I mean, literally, I write pieces about health care. Half the comments are, oh, you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist sympathizer, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, this shit is so old and so played out. Get over it already. To me, the hardest part is not being able to respond because I have to bite my tongue on Twitter because you do not want to feed the trolls. And even though we showed some of them, you try not to give them attention and you don't want to normalize it. And it's very hard. Anybody who knows me knows that I do not bite my tongue. So that's the hardest part, is for me to be like, ah, don't respond. But it's absolutely ridiculous. Honestly, I'm so tired of it. I know every single Muslim is. And it's freaking ridiculous. It's even hard for me not to curse in this segment, Joy, because this is at a time where Muslims are literally being bombed all over the place. And we could say that for the last 25 years, even before then. And a lot of that goes into the normalization of it within the media structure. Like you talked about these guys having their shows on ABC Radio being on msnbc, or as you say, the artists formerly known as MSNBC having shows on there. Why do they why are they given these platforms to begin with? And then when they're there and they say these outrageous, horrific, dehumanizing, disgusting comments, are they not removed? Had this been said about any other group of people, you better believe there would have been campaigns to fire them to end their shows. And this isn't the first time Rosenberg said something about Muslims. Back in October, actually, that's when Cuomo was on his show, when they made that comment about Mamdani and 9 11. And nothing happened then too. The only positive I guess you could say about this now that Mamdani is mayor, is that there was pushback from a lot of elected officials. They came out, Hochul came out, even Chuck Schumer came out and denounced it. Police Commissioner Tisch apparently texted Rosenberg, who she's gone on his show before, she texted him and said, you should apologize. So there was enough pressure that finally made him apologize.
- [56:52]
F
But.
- [56:52]
G
But it's absolutely ridiculous that there's not more consequences for these people. And it's not just radio hosts, it's not just TV anchors, there are politicians that literally got into office, campaigned on Islamophobia. Even Donald Trump himself campaigned on a quote unquote shutdown of Muslims entering this country, got elected. You have Representative Randy Fine in Florida who spews the most anti Muslim, racist, effed up stuff. Even recently he said something to the effect of if you have to choose between dogs or Muslims, the choice is easy and there's silence, there are no consequences. I don't see CNN doing 24, seven news cycles about these statements because if it had been said about anybody else, you better believe you would have seen that. And honestly, the Muslim community is tired of it. It's absolutely ridiculous. And for me, I really believe that a lot of this dehumanization of Muslims, whether it's some subliminally in mainstream outlets or this kind of overt stuff is done on purpose to then justify war and all of our actions overseas that are happening and that have been happening, because when you dehumanize people, then it's okay that, oh, they're just collateral damage. Who cares if we just killed 160 kids or tens of thousands of kids in Gaza? When they're not perceived as human beings, then you don't associate with them and nobody cares. During the, I'm sorry, I know I'm going on and on. During the Iraq war, during all of our excursions, versions in Afghanistan, the COVID wars, you never, you hardly ever saw images of the millions of casualties from our wars. Things that were done in our name. Children, families, obliterated people, maimed people. I mean, you had all kinds of weapons and chemicals use, babies being born in Iraq with deformities, stuff that was done. None of that is broadcast over here. And once you continue to dehumanize an entire group of people, that's why they're ignored and not even included, included in the conversation 95% of the time.
- [58:51]
A
And by the way, it is the opposite that. The opposite of that happened with Gaza, where we did see the pictures, because Palestinians were publishing their own pictures, their own genocide. They're the ones who were making us see the pictures on our social media, which is why people who are very pro Israel are enraged and trying to shut down that kind of social media access on things like Instagram and TikTok. They wanted it shut down because they couldn't censor the pictures anymore. And to your point that you made this. I'm going to. Sorry, skip to be eight. Mike Johnson did exactly what you just said. So just so that y' all know, nigga's not just saying this, they're doing it. Here is Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, third in line to the presidency, trying to justify our war on Iran. That is the way that the media should be characterizing it. It isn't a war that we're having mutually with Iran. We're making war on a country that did nothing to us, alongside Israel, which Mr. Rosenberg says is his favorite country, I guess maybe including the United States. Help. He includes us. Here is Mike Johnson talking about the people of Iran, and they say the quiet parts out loud. They wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and they'd like to take us out as well. We're the Great Satan in their analogy and their misguided religion. And there was no way to appease them and define their misguided religion. Apparently, you have a misguided religion according to the speaker of the House, nida.
- [60:21]
G
It's so disgusting, Joy. And you beat me to the punch about Gaza. And honestly, that was because people like you said on the ground were able to bypass the gatekeepers of mainstream outlets here, the propaganda that we get here, and get news and information directly to the public. And that's why you've seen such a great groundswell of support, because people don't want this crap done in their names. No normal person wants to see tens of thousands of kids murdered without limbs who can co sign that stuff. And that's why you had that Gallup Poll that recently came out a very mainstream poll saying that more people sympathize with Palestinians than Israel for the first time. And I'm so glad that we do have that. We have our outlets. We're all independent here and I love it. That's why I love working with you too. And so glad to be part of the show. But you still have this environment when you have elected officials and people in positions of power creating all this hatred and all this anti Muslim garbage just here in New York city. This was January 30th. I'm going to read you just this one incident that happened. So prosecutors have filed hate crime charges against a Staten island woman accused of attacking three Muslim females wearing hijabs during a brief but violent rampage in Brooklyn's Bay Ridge neighborhood. So According to the NYPD, this 34 year old woman, she hit a woman on. So oh, maybe this is a. No, I'm sorry, mixing up two incidents. So hit a woman on 89th strength and then minutes later pushed a 39 year old woman who was attempting to board a bus on 92nd. And then the final attack occurred outside a nearby school where she allegedly punched a 12 year old girl in the face. A 12 year old girl. And there's hardly any, you know, there was some local coverage of it, but that's it. And this is just one of many, many incidents. There was a mosque that was vandalized or I think there were shots fired in Philadelphia just a couple weeks ago. I think it was either last week or the week before. You have stuff happening all around the country, even in Arizona. And they're trying to criminalize organizations like care, which is the Council on American Islamic Relations, which tracks a lot of these hate crime incidents, who's a civil rights organization that advocates on behalf of the Muslim community here in America. And so you're trying to, and they've been trying to do that for years and years. I'm old enough to remember, literally, I mean, since they were formed, they've been trying to call them a terrorist organization. So you have that going on. You have all this misinformation, you have Muslims that are only brought to the table when they're talking about terrorism. We're never normal people having a normal discussion. And honestly the whole community is just over it. And for years and years we heard, oh, if only they would assimilate. And here you have somebody like Mamdani who's the epitome of assimilating a fantastic, you know, leader that we have here in the biggest, most wonderful city. And they're completely attacking him. Left and right, because they cannot stand that he's in the position that he's in.
- [63:18]
A
And yet he is. And there's not a damn thing Sid or anyone else can do about it. Yes, he's acting, I don't know, like maybe Cockroach Ian, because calling somebody, that is so dehumanizing. But if he were called that he would want. He would want to file a lawsuit over it.
- [63:35]
G
It's literally genocidal language in the Rwanda genocide. You look throughout history, whenever they call people cockroaches, they call them animals. They, you know, take away their humanity. That's when atrocities begin. Because it always starts with language first.
- [63:51]
A
That's right.
- [63:52]
G
Actions later.
- [63:53]
A
And by the way, before we get out of this segment, I just want to show the very first tweet that you got. It was from a guy named Isaiah Carter. Embarrassing that this is the person who apparently started the tsunami of hate that you got on.
- [64:08]
G
Whoever he even is, I don't even know, apparently follows me on Twitter. I love that all the haters follow.
- [64:13]
A
Oh, he's a fan. Oh, okay. He's your fan. He's a fan. He's a fan. He's a fan. That's what it is. Thank you so much, Nida. We appreciate you coming out from behind the scenes.
- [64:23]
G
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.
- [64:26]
A
Thank you, Nidda. All right, we'd love to sometimes let you all see the people behind the scenes. We let you see Jason. We've now let you see Nidda. You guys can see the people who actually make this show possible. Nida is one of our incredible, stalwart producers here on this show. She's also a really great journalist on her own. She has written also for Joy's House. So if you've missed her really moving, beautiful piece about Mamdani's election and what it meant to her as a young Muslim New Yorker, do catch it. All right, so we appreciate everybody who's sticking with us, and welcome to our two of the Joy Read Show. We appreciate each and every person that's here. Please do hit like and subscribe. If you have not done so already, feel free to hit share. Send it to a friend, send it to a foe just to piss them off. And thank you whether you are listening on substack or on Facebook or on YouTube or on any of the wonderful platforms. So we want to remind you that we always appreciate the advertisers who have made this show possible. And this show is brought to you by zebiotics Celebrations. Don't start with the Clinking of glasses they start with Zebiotics Pre Alcohol, a
- [65:30]
B
probiotic you take before your first drink so you can enjoy the night and wake up ready. Zebiotics Free alcohol, the science behind your next great morning.
- [65:39]
A
Yes, indeed. So what are you doing to improve your physical health and to be more present every day in the moment, even after enjoying yourself the night before? Well, one idea might be to plan ahead. Just like you plan your fit and you plan your transport. For me, what I'm doing is I'm making sure that I add pre alcohol to that planning by making Zbiotics Pre Alcohol my go to before I head out the door so that I can be sure to have a productive great morning the day after. Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. I mean prebiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. So here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in your gut and it is a build up of that byproduct, not dehydration, that is actually what's to blame for those rough days after drinking, Pre alcohol produces an enzyme that breaks that byproduct down so that you actually feel better later. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Then drink responsibly and you'll just feel your best tomorrow. I first tried Zebiotics Pre Alcohol over the New Year's holiday because we vowed to be here with you live the next day and it worked like a charm. Now I do not enjoy my security until I have my pre alcohol because it is crazy out here and I need to be productive and feel my best every day to tell you all the crazy stuff that's going on. If you're ready to give it a try, head to zbiotics.com joy and use the code joy joy at checkout for 15 off. That is zebiotics.com joy and just simply use the code joy for 15 off. Trust me, this is my go to go to. All right everybody, so this hour I want to also remind you all that we are going to talk deep dive about Iran. We did talk with NIDA about the fact that you really don't hear those stories and we're going to do that in this hour. But before we do that, we are blessed and highly favored because this show is not just brought to you by our friends at Zebiotics, it is also brought to you by our friends at one of our favorites, bookshop.org now since 2020, bookshop.org has raised more than $45 million for local bookstores. They are unapologetically anti Amazon. They believe local bookstores are essential community hubs that foster culture, curiosity, and a love of reading. And they are committed to helping them survive and thrive. They are a certified B Corp and have been named a Best of the World by B Labs. So when you shop for books, where you shop actually matters. When you purchase from bookshop.org, you are supporting more than 2,500 local independent bookstores across the country. Independent bookstores do more than just sell books. They take care of and pour back into their communities, creating safe spaces that foster culture and curiosity and a love of reading. So whether you're searching for an incisive history to help you make sense of this insane moment, or a novel to sweep you away, or the perfect gift for a loved one, bookshop.org they got you covered. Now, I love how easy the website is. You just go on bookshop.org in the little upper right hand corner, you click on choose a bookstore, you type in a bookstore that you love into the search bar and hit support this shop and boom, voila. You can shop local and skip the soul crushing vibe of supporting Amazon. So just today I went on and I picked Baldwin and Company, one of my favorite bookstores in New Orleans, and also Mahogany Books in Maryland. But you can pick any bookstore that you love. Literally, just today I went on and did that and I ordered two new books. I ordered the Parable of the Sower by the legendary Octavia Butler and the Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot, which is about the infamous Dulles brothers. And by doing so, I helped contribute to that more than $45 million that bookshop.org has raised to support local bookstore. So I felt good about it and I'm gonna get my books. You can do it too. Just go to bookshop.org and use the code JOY at checkout to get 10% off your next order. That's codejoyookshop.org for 10%. Okay, so we now have the faces and some of the names of the Iranian children who were killed in what apparently were Double Tap airstrikes by the US And Israel. A clear war crime. Double Tap means they hit it once and then as people try to flee, they hit it again. And These are just six of the nearly 200 children who were killed as a result. We also have video from Reuters that shows the graves that are being dug for the nearly 200 victims of an airstrike that for sure, for sure will be deemed a war crime. Can we show that? That is your tax dollars at work bombing a school for girls, killing nearly 200 little kids. Is that not a war crime? This is happening as there is a report that the United States military, military, that military leaders are telling troops that the Iran war was anointed by Jesus to bring about Armageddon. This is a real report. A watchdog agency, a religious freedom, a military, religious freedom organization called the Military Religious Freedom foundation says it has received widespread complaints from our troops that they are being told by some military leaders that this war on Iran that was started by us for no reason whatsoever other than Israel told Trump to do it is being designed and ordered by Jesus and sanctioned by Jesus to bring about Armageddon. This as Americans and other foreign nationals are effectively trapped in a war zone that we created. It's two hours now. I don't know if you can hear. There's actually quite a lot of jets flying over me at the moment, which is rather unsettling being outside. But yeah, basically landed on Saturday morning, 3:00am, woke up. You're right.
- [72:14]
D
Did something just go thunder?
- [72:17]
A
Yes. Sorry, I'm very on edge.
- [72:19]
H
No, no, we'll listen if you need.
- [72:21]
D
I, I can see the, the city behind you. We can't hear clearly as well as you can, but if you need to get in and make yourself safe, go make yourself safe. And we'll, we'll do this another time because that's the key thing.
- [72:30]
A
We're at Sky Harbor.
- [72:31]
D
We spoke with a couple from, from
- [72:32]
I
Gilbert who's actually stuck in Dubai right now. During the ongoing violence in the Middle East.
- [72:37]
A
That was the loudest we've heard in a while. That was okay, now I'm nervous.
- [72:42]
I
Linda Pope has been seeing missile attacks
- [72:44]
D
from her hotel room window in Dubai.
- [72:47]
I
They're sheltering in place while much of
- [72:49]
A
the area has been shut down.
- [72:50]
D
Dubai airport officials say all flights have
- [72:53]
A
been suspended until further notice.
- [72:55]
G
It's a little nerve wracking.
- [72:56]
A
You can still hear the rumbling. It sounds like thunder. Sounds like Arizona Thunder. The U.S. department of State is urging
- [73:02]
I
Americans overseas to stay alert and follow local guidance.
- [73:06]
A
Hi, everyone. My name is Shekinah lee. I am 26 years old. I'm from Chicago. I'm currently in Dubai. I'm in a parking shelter. We've received so many emergency alerts. We've seen the missiles with our own two eyes. We've heard the explosions. I don't know exactly what's happening, but I know that for people who are Staying on the Palm. Jumeirah like me, we are currently taking shelter. All right. So currently in the lobby of my hotel, y' all probably can hear the emergency messages going off. A bomb just hit. I'm not too far away. Kind of felt like an earthquake. Very loud noise, everybody phones going off. Ain't gonna lie. It's kind of crazy, y'.
- [73:49]
G
All.
- [73:50]
A
The lady across the hall from us said she's Lebanese and this is nothing. She's experienced it before, so it kind of made us feel better. But ain't gonna lie, growing up in the States, we ain't really deal with stuff like this. So just trying to keep going through it all. Remain prayed up and. Yeah. Hey, y', all, as you know, I'm
- [74:17]
F
the girl that decided to spend her
- [74:19]
A
30th birthday in Dubai.
- [74:21]
F
And I'm coming on here very humbly asking my president
- [74:30]
A
to just seize it.
- [74:33]
F
I'm an American taxpayer citizen, and I've now been stuck over here. Since the 24th. I've been blessed to be able to buy three different flights from three different airlines, and they've all been canceled. I don't know who this will reach. I don't know if it'll reach anyone. But I am not the person who
- [75:08]
A
gets on here like this.
- [75:10]
F
But I am desperate to get home to my family. So I'm asking, I'm pleading,
- [75:22]
A
please, just
- [75:23]
F
whoever can help us, please just help.
- [75:27]
A
And I will note that that British gentleman that you saw at the top, we just pulled these just from social media. He may be home already because Great Britain is sending military, military airplanes to retrieve their nationals while in the U.S. not so much. Here's CNN's Aaron Burnett, who also was stuck or may still be stuck in the US Israel created war zone in Dubai.
- [75:50]
J
It's the message. It's loud and clear. We just got this message here in Israel from the embassy. It reads, I'm quoting here, the US Embassy is not in a position at this time to evacuate or directly assist Americans in departing Israel. Those are the words from the ambassador, Mike Huckabee. And frankly, they're consistent with what Americans are hearing across this region. You know, we all were alerted in 14 countries last night to leave immediately. People were told on their own using commercial options, which is simply an incredible irony given that in almost all of the countries listed, there are no commercial options to leave right now. And in fact, in six of the them, there isn't even a confirmed sitting US Ambassador, including in Saudi Arabia, where the massively fortified embassy has been hit. It's a stunning situation. I was struck by the words of a general who's currently stuck in Dubai. He formerly commanded the base in Kuwait, such an important base. I've been through there on my way to Afghanistan to report a story. And he was simply shocked by the situation, saying, it's a little bit disheartening
- [76:49]
A
and a little bit envious to hear the. That the BBC has announced that the UK Government is actually arranging transport for the British citizens to be able to extract them. Whereas here, for us as Americans, we feel abandoned. The. The State Departments have talked to two embassy personnel, two different embassies. They are in survival mode, quite frankly, because as we know, the administration reduced their budgets by almost one half.
- [77:13]
J
His words are sobering.
- [77:16]
A
I see somebody in the chat saying, this is a war we didn't cause. Unfortunately, American voters caused it by putting Donald Trump in the White House. Unfortunately, that is what happened. And despite the US Having allowed Bibi Netanyahu to put us into a regional war that is soon to suck in Europe as well, Britain having to send military planes to go get their troops put those planes at risk. And they are being slowly but surely pulled into the war as well. And European countries are probably going to be dragged in as well. Donald Trump is threatening European countries, trying to force them to join a coalition of the unwilling. And all of this while our political leaders right here in the United States seem unable to describe this war for what it is, a war. Three of our U.S. embassies in the last couple of days, okay, those are sovereign territories of the US they have declared war on us. I don't believe in the semantics. We've talked about the language this morning. We're not at war right now. The president ran. And did the president not run on not starting a war with Iran?
- [78:16]
D
He ran on two things, ending wars.
- [78:18]
A
He's ended eight of them.
- [78:20]
D
And he also ran keeping America safe. This isn't a war. We haven't declared war.
- [78:26]
A
I want to play the secretary of, the secretary of defense, who calls himself the secretary, said today, this is a war. Let's watch. We set the terms of this war
- [78:36]
D
from start to finish. We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it.
- [78:44]
A
Is it really not a war?
- [78:46]
D
What he declared on us was war,
- [78:48]
A
meaning us as ayatollah.
- [78:49]
D
He declared war on us. We are not at war with the Iranian people.
- [78:53]
A
Buttons to the missiles and started hitting
- [78:55]
D
their neighbors, and the neighbors are all mad now. So it's, it's, it's, it's just unfortunate. You know we lost.
- [79:02]
A
What would you said earlier?
- [79:04]
D
Six people now and my understanding they were in Kuwait in one of their neighbors and they got hit.
- [79:11]
A
So it's just unfortunate that happened. But this is war.
- [79:13]
D
It's going to get worse before it gets better.
- [79:15]
B
You just stated that the act of war would be if Americans were being killed. You said, what if a bomb went off in the United States. Right. For over 40 years, the Iranian government
- [79:26]
A
and regime had been responsible for the
- [79:28]
B
deaths of thousands upon thousands of Americans, not to mention state sponsored terrorism. And so did the president do the right thing? Has he been consistent in this?
- [79:36]
A
Absolutely. Where?
- [79:38]
D
Can you just tell me really quickly,
- [79:40]
A
where have they killed thousands of Americans in America?
- [79:44]
B
I didn't say they killed thousands of Americans in America. I said that they have been responsible for thousands of Americans being killed. And I think that that's easily something that you can verify. I don't know, state sponsored terrorism for starters. Why don't you. Are you serious right now?
- [79:58]
D
States the United States launched a war against Iran right now.
- [80:03]
A
Iran retaliated, in which American members. That was Eamon Moyudine very patiently trying to have a conversation with Anna Paulina Luna, the Florida congresswoman who ain't too bright. And I played some of the dumb ones. Tommy Tuberville, Good God, I help us. Mark Wayne Mullen, who said we as ayatollah. What? These people don't even know what they're talking about. They're in Congress. Those are the people who are supposed to provide checks and balances to Donald Trump. This as. Let's just go to Marco Rubio. Former senator Marco Rubio, who just went ahead and just gave the game away, was an imminent threat. And the imminent threat was that we knew that if Iran was attacked and we believed they would be attacked, that they would immediately come after us. And we were not going to sit there and absorb a blow before we responded because the Department of War assessed that if we did that, if we waited for them to hit us first after they were attacked and by someone else, Israel attacked them, they hit us first and we waited for them to hit us, we would suffer more casualties and more deaths. We went proactively in a defensive way to prevent them from inflicting higher damage. Had we not done so, there would have been hearings on Capitol Hill about how we knew that this was going to happen and we didn't act preemptively to prevent more. More casualties and more loss of life. Oh, you hear that? Did you catch that? He said that if Israel hit them and they responded to us. We knew that that would happen. So this was because of Israel, right? This was Israel that caused. Israel said they were going to hit. This has been the rumor that Israel said, we're going to bomb Iran and we're going to war with Iran. Either way, you're either with us or we're doing it anyway and they're going to blame you anyway. That's what it. That's what it sounds like he just said. Meanwhile, all of this as this war has now been revealed in so many ways as being totally unnecessary and unlawful. You've got to hear this next one. Take a listen to the deal Iran tried to offer.
- [81:57]
D
Trump alert you to an incredibly important development that happened just before Donald Trump launched his illegal war against Iran. Hi, David Cay Johnston for DC Report. The day before Donald Trump began this war, keep in mind only Congress under our constitution has the power to declare war. There were negotiations in Geneva, indirect talks between Tehran and Washington. The in between was the foreign Minister of Oman, Mr. Badar. And according to him, the Iranians made an incredible offer to the United States. They would not enrich uranium to anywhere near the level it could become weapons grade, something they've been saying all along. They would allow inspections and they would allow American oil companies to come into Iran, which has one of the biggest proven oil reserves in the world. And they did all that so Donald Trump could brag, I got a better deal than Barack Obama did in 2015. They thought this would settle these matters and that would be the end of it. And less than 24 hours later, Donald Trump's response was to start bombing Iran. If you were an Iranian, why would you trust anything any American government says? Why would you, in fact, not see the American government as country run by rogues, by savages, by people whose word cannot be trusted or believed? So keep in mind, Donald Trump could have had what he promised, peace. He could have made Obama look bad. Instead, he chose to put American lives in danger and risk a much larger war.
- [83:47]
A
Joining me now is the man you just heard, David K. Johnston, Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter, author of three bestselling books on Donald Trump and professor at Rochester Institute of Technology. Hmm. David, seems to me that the war seems even more unnecessary now.
- [84:04]
D
Oh, I absolutely think this is a war of choice and not of necessity. It is not going to be over in four weeks. You know, whoever heard of a war that comes like a cheese package from the grocery store expires on this date, right? And it is already. It's led to a 7% increase in gasoline prices. So there goes Trump's claim to lower that. We are seeing uprisings from the point of view of the oppressive regimes in the Middle. All the regimes in the Middle east are oppressive. They're all dictatorships. The difference is Iran is Shia and the other countries are Sunni. That's a dispute that goes back 1401 years in Islam. And these oppressive governments have now their Shia minorities, or in the case of Bahrain, a majority. You know, they're upset because to them, Ayatollah Khamenei was a hero. You and I don't, I think, see them that way, but they do because they're an oppressed peoples. And all of this is outrageous. And it also goes to the fact that Donald Trump has had murder at his heart his entire life. You know, you and I've Talked before about 1989 in the Central Park 5. Trump buys full page ads in five newspapers to demand the summary execution without trial of the five young men who were railroaded into prison. Later, DNA evidence proved they were innocent. The cops had framed them along with the New York District Attorney's office, and the real perpetrator was caught. And Donald said they should be executed anyway.
- [85:41]
A
And by the way, now they have executed 200 girls, 200 students in a school that apparently were hit with a double tap airstrap strike. That's a war crime. Donald Trump appears to envy Bibi Netanyahu, who I call Bibi the Butcher. He wants to join Bibi the Butcher as an adjudicated war criminal because it seems to me that if somebody wanted to go to the Hague, they could name him and Pete Hegseth and the general who planned this insane attack on Iran, which started with an attack on a school. I don't know how much the mainstream media is talking about it, but if that had been a school, let's say that Russia attacked in Ukraine. They talk about it every day.
- [86:22]
D
Well, interestingly, some people in my social feeds have said, well, you know, they put a school right next to an important military base. The United States has high schools and elementary schools and kindergartens on military bases. What a dumb argument. It's indicative of going to your previous point about the congresspeople who don't know anything. We really have incredibly stupid people defending Donald Trump and his indefensible conduct. And where are the constitutional conservatives who are often always saying we have to follow the meaning of the Constitution when it was written in 1787? Because Trump has no authority to this. The only authority he has is to be defensive. And Marco Rubio's assertion that if the Israelis went ahead and tried to kill the leadership in Iran, it doesn't surprise me. They intended to do that. That we would be attacked. That's correct. I think that that would happen. But how does he know there would be more deaths? We still have plenty of opportunity to be responsive to those things. And you wait until you are attacked and then the president has authority. I'm reminded here of the science fiction movie with Tom Cruise, Minority Report about pre crime.
- [87:41]
A
Yes.
- [87:41]
D
Where people were being arrested before they had committed the crime. And that's what's going on here. The Iranians hadn't done anything. And look at how the Iranians in the past. And I, I don't want somebody to think I'm defending the Iranian regime. It is a horrible, brutal, monstrous regime that wants us to live in the 9th century, which is.
- [88:00]
A
So does the US regime. They want us to live in the 19th century.
- [88:04]
D
Well, they want to live in the 19th Century. They want to go back to the 9th, a crucial century in the development of Islam. But the horror of this is. No, you wait until you have reason to respond. But, you know, Trump called it the Department of War. He put this bloodthirsty, incompetent, hard drinking Pete Hegseth in charge. They call it the Department of War when it's not. Who was foolish enough to ever believe that Donald Trump would be the president of peace and there'd be no more wars. Well, the 77 million people who voted for it, 100%.
- [88:45]
A
And those who, by the way, think that this was even successful regime change. First of all, the other country that's got a Shia minority happens to be Iraq, which we handed back to its Shia majority by overthrowing Sunni Saddam Hussein. But we don't know things. And so we don't. We do things. Khamenei's son is now being set up to be the new Iran supreme leader. So they traded the man who was elderly, the elder Khomeini, for his son. So apparently we don't even know how to do regime change properly.
- [89:16]
D
Well, in fact, in Venezuela, we kidnapped Maduro and left the regime in charge. And these are people are amateurs. They have no idea what they're doing. If Donald Trump were sitting down in an interview where he can't get up and run off, and somebody were to ask him, like Jonathan Swan, tell us, Mr. President, what is the difference between a Sunni and a Shia Muslim? And why does that matter for the national security of the U.S. donald would go talk about drapes because they don't know, they don't know the history of that part of the world. They don't understand anything about the broader consequences of this kind of action. What we've now done is created another century of enmity between Tehran and Washington. We could make Tehran our friends if we worked at it. This is a country that is the most sophisticated, educated country in the Middle East. It is the natural leader, if there is such a thing in the Middle East. But we make our bed with the Saudis and the Bahrainis and the Emiratis and, you know, in Bahrain, what did they do when there was an uprising against the government? There was a doctor in an emergency room who treated people who were brought in. They executed him for doing that about 12 or 13 years ago. MBS, who put $2 billion in Jared Kushner's and Ivanka Trump's pocket.
- [90:42]
A
He
- [90:44]
D
had 39 imams beheaded, publicly beheaded. Why? Because these religious leaders prayed for a better government. Every one of these regimes in the Middle east is brutal and vicious. And since Netanyahu has been fighting not to go to prison, he has turned Israel into a country that is brutal and vicious. Instead of the democracy we'd seen, which was heavy handed at times, but generally worked very hard to do everything it had the right to do to defend itself, that's not what it's doing anymore. And, you know, you could your staff if they have the time. There are videos of Netanyahu, who graduated from Cheltenham High School in suburban Philadelphia when he had no gray hair, speaking in very calculated, calibrated ways. But you can't miss his animus for Palestinian Arabs. And this administration, we love oil rich Arabs, we hate oil poor Arabs, and the oil poor Arabs are, of course, the Palestinians.
- [91:47]
A
Yeah. And by the way, just, just on that note, I have three elements, Jason, if we could, let's start with Donald Trump just admitting the obvious, killing our
- [91:57]
H
people and killing people from all over the world. And I think we have great. And I think if we didn't do it first, they would have done it to Israel and give us a shot,
- [92:07]
D
if that was possible.
- [92:09]
A
Okay, so Donald Trump admitted that we did this because they would have hit Israel. And he's now just said because Donald Trump isn't smart enough to lie. Let's do a couple more. Senator Mark Warner, who the members of the United States Senate and House, they all were briefed on this war and it is a war. I'm sorry to inform those who don't want to admit it. Mark WAYNE MULLEN but it is a war. And Senator Mark Warner walked out of there and this is what he said.
- [92:34]
D
This is C12 and he's the Dem. He's also ranking Democrat.
- [92:37]
A
He's the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, I believe.
- [92:40]
D
Right. It's also be clear
- [92:46]
A
said before I said now there was no imminent threat
- [92:54]
D
to the United States of America by the Iranians. There was a threat to Israel. If we equate a threat to Israel
- [93:06]
A
as the equivalent of an imminent threat
- [93:09]
D
to the United States, then we are in uncharted territory. We have seen the goals for this operation change now I believe four or five times.
- [93:28]
A
And I didn't play Senator Blumenthal, but he said that from what he understood and he is a military veteran, there's no way to achieve whatever the aims of this war are, which he wasn't even clear what they are without boots on the ground. So now it appears that you have a United States Senator, the Secretary of State who's also in charge of like 10 other departments, Marco Rubio and the President of the United States all admitting that the reason that we are in a war with Iran is because of Israel wanting it and Israel feeling threatened. That does not sound like either America first or even legal.
- [94:03]
D
Well, indeed. If I were my friend, the cartoonist Jeff Danziger, I would have drawn a cartoon today of Benjamin Netanyahu dressed up as a farmer with a chain in his hand and a nose ring at the other end in his prized 350 pound pig that he's leading around by the nose. Because that's what they've said happened here. Not America First, Israel first. And we will act pre crime, pre attack. Now they also this fantasy that they're going to wipe out the leadership. The clerics in this theocracy are very deep. Go to Quam. There's a whole city that's basically a religious city and this is a country of more than 90 million people. They're not going to have trouble finding more leadership. We have for sure wiped out a whole group of them. But are we just going to keep cutting off the head of state? I mean, that's not very smart. And why don't you kill heads of state? You know, there have been wonderful fictional accounts of what if we had killed Hitler? Well, we would have gotten, instead of a crazy man who attacks the Russians foolishly, we would have gotten Goebbels or Himmler and we would have been in much worse shape. The best way to manage things is how we manage the Cold War. Lots of mistakes, lots of bad things done. But at the end of the day the Russians, the Soviet Union fell apart, it took decades, but Gandhi got the British to walk. They didn't have to be shot out, they walked out. And now India, like China, now that they've gotten rid of their oppressors, they are back on the path to be what they were 500 years ago. The two wealthiest nations in the world. All we're doing here is creating generations of new enmity that we don't need, that don't help us, that don't make Americans safer, that don't make the world wealthier. Because we have a bunch of amateurs. Trump, Pete Hegseth, his Minister of hate, Stephen Miller, all of these people, they have no idea what they're doing. They have no knowledge of these underlying issues. And Donald thinks, oh, yeah, well, four weeks, the war will be over. You know, I've snapped my finger. And being the wizard of Oz, I have these magical powers.
- [96:25]
A
Yeah. And wasn't he supposed to end the war against Ukraine in a day? I thought he said it would take one day. His last night is war, if that. Right. And you talked about Bibi Netanyahu. And I have been observing Bibi Netanyahu since the 80s. You know, that's how nerdy I am. I used to watch him when he would talk on Nightline. And Hassan Ashwari, Hanan Ashwari, sorry, I mangled her name. She used to just destroy him like in debates on Nightline. And she was a Palestinian woman, Palestinian leader. But Bibi Netanyahu, he hasn't even made his own son come back from Miami to join the IDF and be part of this war. His son is luxuriating in Palm beach, chilling. This is C13. If we have that his son is not in the idf, his son is not risking his life. Netanyahu's son, who, you know, sometimes styles himself as a right wing troll on ex Twitter. He's chilling. And he also, I believe, works in the works around the Trump regime, folks, but he's not at risk. And I also have to always remind people that Bibi Netanyahu is not religious. He does not represent Judaism. And people who try to put him on Jewish people need to remember that Bibi Netanyahu is the guy who got dinged back in 2015 for saying the following. This is 6C14. Jason Rollam didn't want to exterminate the
- [97:47]
H
Jews at the time. He wanted to expel the Jews. And Hajime Al Husseini went to and said, if you expel them, they'll all come here. So what should I do with Them? Yes.
- [97:58]
A
He said burn them. When you're defending Hitler and saying Hitler wasn't the real bad guy, it was the Palestinian mufti, you're not a defender of Jewish people. You are simply a megalomaniac criminal trying to stay out of prison who wants an endless war because it's the only way he can stay in power. They have elections coming up in Israel.
- [98:24]
D
Yeah. Joy, I think it's really important to be clear that criticism of Netanyahu is not anti Semitic. Criticism of Netanyahu. There are only 10 million people in Israel, not even 10 million. And they've had demonstrations with a million people turning out to object to his Medax approach in Gaza, which has been grossly disproportionate. So this is a secular issue here, and it involves a man who is, according to the indictments, utterly corrupt. He can't go many places in the world without being arrested as a war criminal. And that's who we're making our bid with. Everybody in the Middle east, including Netanyahu, is a bad guy. Every one of them, without exception. Maybe the Qataris are the least bad of the whole group, but that's not saying very much. And we're meddling in things where we don't understand what's going on. And we're certainly not bringing about any kind of relief for the Shia who are oppressed because of their religious views. And so this is, this is simply not, not good on any level whatsoever. And we should all be ashamed and embarrassed that our leadership on Capitol hill won't act 53 to 47 today against reining in Donald Trump's illegal, unconstitutional war. 100% illegal. Go read Article 1 of the Constitution. And this is not going to do well. By the way, Donald Trump's son, you know, they've said, well, he's not serving because he's 6 9, he's too tall to be in the military. One of my grandsons is 6 9. All my grandsons are 63 and above. And he can serve. A little old now, he's in his 30s, but he's 6 9. He can serve. Leaders want your sons to die and your daughters to die. If they're dishonest like Donald Trump, if they're honest, they don't want anybody to die, and they try very hard not to do so. And by the way, let's see if Donald Trump goes out to Dover Air Base when they bring the bodies back in draped coffins.
- [100:31]
A
Yeah, he said that. He's still considering, he's still deciding whether he's going to go and witness. And these are four of the six known deaths that are caused by Donald Trump's war. This is Cody, Captain Cody A. Clark, Sergeant First Class Noah Teatons, Sergeant First Class Nicole Amore, who I believe is only 35 years old, Sergeant Declan J. Cody. They were killed during this war. And I will note they were killed inside of a, they've called it triple wide. It was a big trailer that Hegseth claimed was secured and was fortified. And instead they were bombed to death for nothing.
- [101:17]
D
Right. And Donald Trump even says, well, I'm considering going. I'm sorry. Imagine if Barack Obama had said when we had soldiers who died while he was president. Well, I'm considering whether to go to Dover. Can you, you can hear the Fox News host screaming for his head.
- [101:35]
A
Indeed. I appreciate you, David K. Johnson. And I will note that I think Jordan is actually another one that's pretty decent. I like, I like this Jordan the
- [101:44]
D
better of the group. I agree with you.
- [101:46]
A
I like Jordan, Jordan, the Saudis, certainly
- [101:49]
D
not the Saudis, the Bahrainis and the Emiratis.
- [101:51]
A
And can I, before I even let you go, since you are an econ guy, I mean, what is this going to do? Because there has been this burgeoning explosion of tourism to Dubai. We've seen comedy festivals and fashion festivals. And despite, you know, people's usual sort of Islamophobia, this is sort of taken off as a destination sort of travel destination. I mean, obviously that's cooked at this point because of what Donald Trump has done. What do you think that that then does? Is there a ripple effect on our economy and on the travel economy? We already have. Tourism to the United States has cratered. But what do you think happens now to the economy because of that? This.
- [102:28]
D
Well, from the point of view of Tehran attacking civilian targets like hotels in Dubai is a very smart move because they want to tell Shia people, rise up. They want to say you're going to pay a price for coming after us. But there are other factors here. Japan and Korea don't have any oil. They are very dependent upon oil. China has huge reserves they put into salt domes like we have. But they're also saying this is going to mess up our economy. Somebody reported today that the price now to charter a very large oil tanker, not an ultra large, but a very large one to China is $5 million. Holy mackerel. It would normally be around a million dollars, maybe a million and a half. We have gotten the Europeans to stop relying on natural gas and oil from Vladimir Putin. But they rely on oil and natural gas now from the Middle East. So the European economies are going to be troubled. And the Europeans are trying to figure out how do we not get drawn into this war. And a Keir Starmer gave the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom this very legalistic argument that is not going to sell with anybody who's not a lawyer. But Macron in France, MERS in Germany and the Scandinavians are quite clear. We want nothing to do with this. You're not going to land your planes here to refuel. You're not going to stage from our countries because they recognize that this is an illegal war. And all the people at the top who are promoting this, well, maybe they better hope Donald Trump's dictatorship goes on forever. Because if we get a different president, I suspect they're all going to be spending a lot of money on lawyers trying to stay out of prison.
- [104:12]
A
Oh, absolutely. And I think that at this point, somebody ought to get going on attempting to do to Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth what was done to Bibi Netanyahu. There should be charges of war crimes in the Hague. They killed 200 children on purpose. A double tap strike means you meant to shoot it. You meant to drop those missiles. Donald Trump has called the heads of Raytheon and other military industrial complex firms to the White House because we're fast running out of very expensive munitions. We sent a lot of them to Ukraine. And so as we run out, he wants to rapidly make more. So what we're going to see is the defense industry get a ton of money, right? We're going to give more money to the military industrial complex.
- [104:57]
D
We're using $4 million missiles to take out $20,000 drones. And I would be not quite as harsh as you are. It's possible the bombing of that school was bad judgment or error by military officers. I think it's most likely that it was intentional. It was designed to send a message. But it's possible. I mean, hopefully we will find out. The problem is you can't trust this administration. The inspectors general all through this administration are being handcuffed and being told, don't you look into that, don't you ask about that. Because we have a third generation crime family boss, white collar crime family boss in the White House out of a four generation white collar cram family. This is just what I finished teaching my criminal, my criminal justice students at Rochester was how white collar crime works and how terrible a job we do in America of dealing with white collar crime, which costs 10 to 20 times what street crime costs us. And we have criminals at the head of our government. And we're talking about Richard Nixon, who was a tax cheat and would have gone to prison if he hadn't, as his lawyer did, if he hadn't been pardoned. We're talking about across the board, everything you do is criminal. You take money, you ignore the emoluments clause, you're secretly on the payroll or openly now on the payroll of various Middle Eastern dictators like mbs. And I don't get the lack of outrage among principled Republicans. And there are a lot of principled Republicans. They've just been cowed into not speaking up. And the, the actions of the Republican leadership on Capitol Hill. They're vile, they're, they're traitorous and they absolutely are violating their oath of office by bowing down to Donald Trump on this.
- [106:48]
A
Indeed. David K. Johnston, thank you. Always appreciate your insights, particularly when you get to get into that econ stuff as well. And you're right, a crime family is running the country and God help us all. Thank you, my friend.
- [107:01]
D
Take care.
- [107:02]
A
Thank you. Take care. And by the way, what I will say too is I was having a conversation with somebody earlier today who made a really good point. When you are a criminal, you have to surround yourself with other people that are also dirty and you make sure that if they didn't start out dirty, they get dirty. So you take Cash Patel, who is a podcaster who cared a lot about the Epstein files when he was doing podcasts, and you take Dan Bongino, who made his name as a podcaster, talking about the Epstein files. You bring them inside, you let them see the crimes and then you dirty them up by making them do the COVID up. Now, they've seen the crimes, they've looked at it, they've seen the videos, they've seen the emails, they've seen the evidence, they've seen the other three hidden interviews with victims, alleged victims of Donald Trump, people who have accused Donald Trump of sexual abuse of children, of themselves as children. They've seen it. And once you're dirty and you've seen it and you've participated in the COVID up and maybe committed a crime, now you can't leave. Now you can't go outside because you now leave and you're outside, you're now at risk because you could bring the whole house of cards down. That puts you at incredible risk. The Dan Bongino says, I can't take it anymore. He goes back into podcast world. But can he really tell what he Saw? Probably not. You take Pete Hegseth, who was accused of sexual predation by a woman who he had to pay off. He denies that he abused this woman sexually, but he's dirty. He had this accusation. She signed an NDA. What if she breaks the NDA? What if she decides to go on 60 Minutes or what's left of it and give a full interview and tell what she knew? He is at risk all the time of being exposed. Whatever he did, was he really getting blackout drunk when he was at Fox? Well, maybe people talk about it. Maybe when he's not defense secretary anymore, maybe people do a long form interview. Maybe they go on Tucker Carlson who likes to do a long two hour interview and maybe they tell what they know. He's dirty. Better to keep him inside. He's the best person to have his defense secretary. You can tell him commit crimes, Go ahead and do war crimes. You got to do it. You're already dirty. If you go outside, maybe the ladies start doing interviews. You get somebody like literally ran for Attorney General of Florida on a mission to stop pedophiles and sex offenders. Then she goes into the Trump regime, having spent 10 years as attorney General of Florida and doing absolutely nothing to stop the biggest pedophile in the history of the United States and maybe the world, Jeffrey Epstein. She didn't do anything to stop him. But now she's the Attorney General of the United States and she's seen all the files, she's seen all the interviews, she's seen it all. And then she's done cover up. Now you've done the COVID up. Maybe you committed a crime, now you're dirty. You can't leave because if you go out, maybe then people want to know what you knew. Can you tell what you know? Because you might be telling on yourself committing crimes as well. There's a reason the Mafia makes people go out and shoot somebody. To be in the Mafia or in a gang, they make you beat somebody up. You have to be dirty. Because if everybody's dirty and nobody's clean, everybody plays ball. Nobody is disloyal because everybody's dirty. You only pick dirty people. You've got Kristi Noem who's out there. Did she lie to Congress? I don't know. Maybe she's got a luxury plane with a bed in it. She's got somebody that is accused of maybe being her boyfriend that's maybe running the show and maybe she's just Homeland Security secretary in name only. And maybe she's not calling the shots. And oh, Wait. Weird. Maybe there's this. This company that got $146 million Homeland Security Department contract that didn't exist until eight days before the contract was signed, and that's never done business with the federal government because they didn't exist until eight days before the contract was signed. The big Negus got that out of Kristi Noem today. She had to admit it. And, oh, this firm that didn't exist till 8 days before they got a contract with the Department of Homeland Security happens to be tied to Kristi Noem when she was a governor. Her. Weird. So maybe she's dirty. Well, so she can't leave, because if you leave, people might want to know what you know. So now you have to stay in because you're dirty, too. You get people that are already dirty already of questionable morals, and then you dirty them up. They're so dirty they can't leave, and they got to stay loyal. Donald Trump put his literal criminal attorneys as the underbosses at the Justice Department. And the. Because you can't. What you can't have if you're running a criminal enterprise. Is anybody honest? So all the way down in the layers of the Justice Department, it has to be people who are already touched by Trump. It can't be any normal prosecutors. They all got fired. If they participated and were willing to investigate Trump when he was president the first time, they got to go because it means they have integrity. Even if they're conservative, even if they're Republicans, they have integrity. They got to go. Any elected official that was willing to not commit crimes for Trump in 2020, they got to go. It's why every single person that's in the party has to pretend that they think Donald Trump really won the election in 2020. Because if you admit that he lost, you're admitting that he committed crimes to try to stay in office. So you got to be dirty in order to play. And you can't leave, because if you leave, you might end up on, I don't know, an interview on your local news outlet, and they might want to know what you know. So what happens is everybody's got to be both dirty and also incompetent and stupid. You can't have real people with integrity. There can't be a normal FBI director. Can you imagine what would happen if all of a sudden we got a real FBI director? Let's say Cash Patel were to quit and go outside? He now doesn't have Dan Bongino as his deputy. Who's the third guy down? Maybe the Third guy down is a right wing Republican, but is a real FBI director. Won't he start looking into the files and then maybe he'll start questioning. Did my predecessor cover any of this up? Did he commit crimes? Now, even if you're a right wing Republican, but you have integrity, you might actually start looking into it. So you've got to keep cash in, in place. Right? It's risk. The risk is equal on both sides. The dirt, the people are dirty inside and the people are dirty at the top. That's how a mafia stays together. Everybody's filthy. Donald Trump can have normal people. Like, why would you have RFK Jr. Running healthcare? Because he got dirt. He got dirt. He's not like a clean customer. There's all kind of weird stories around him. His wife ended her own life. That was weird. And you know, you got to keep him inside. You keep all the dirty people inside. That's why we have this. And then the, the biggest sort of manifestation of that is Jeffrey Epstein. A lot of people in the chat saying, oh, good, now that we're at war with Iran, people aren't talking with. No, we're still talking Jeffrey Epstein because that was the ultimate dirty man play. Jeffrey Epstein had dirt on everybody. Rich, everybody powerful, everybody in the AI tech bro universe, royalty in Europe, presidents of the United States, they're on his plane, they're on his island. Lutnick has got his family chilling at the island with the dirty people. People. Everybody's dirty. So everybody plays ball. Y' all know that the one black governor who did get invited to the little governor dinner and who did attend is the governor of, wait for it, the U.S. virgin Islands. Oh, that black man did get invited to go to the governor's ball. Not Wes Moore, who isn't dirty, not the governor of Colorado. He's gay, he can't come. But the brother from Virgin Islands can go. But why did he get to go? Oh, Jeffrey Epstein was running amok in the U. S. Virgin Islands and people were looking the other way, except the one black woman prosecutor who said, wait a minute, you can't have a pedophile operating on our island. Know what happened to her? She got fired. So you gotta invite the governor because he's not going to tell. Because I don't know. I'm not saying he's corrupt. I'm just saying he maybe kind of maybe knew what was happening. So you want to keep him inside. This is what you have to think about when you think about a war in Iran. What did Bibi Netanyahu say to Donald Trump on his seven visits. Every other month, that man was in the White House chatting, chatting, chatting with Trump. He was in his face. First visitor. Then every other month, every other month since January of 2025. What was he saying to him? Maybe he was saying, you're dirty. I know you're dirty because Jeffrey Epstein was giving the dirt on you to me, to my administration, to the Israelis. And so you're going to do exactly what I tell you to do when I tell you. Jump. Start jumping, baby. Because whatever's in those files that scares Donald Trump so much that he calls people piggy and goes crazy and loses his mind when you bring up the files and says, these are boring, don't talk about it, don't think about it. He said, look the other way. Hey, I'm a bomb. Another country to make you stop. But if Bibi Netanyahu says, I know about the other three interviews, I know what that girl said about you when she was 13 to 15 years old, I'm not saying Trump did it. I'm not accusing him of anything. Just because the FBI does interviews with a potential victim of yours doesn't mean you really victimize them. But you did it. Do it to Eugene Carroll. You did brag that you could grab people by the. And then you literally grabbed Eugene Carroll by the. And one of the allegations is that he was grabbing children by the. And I'm just saying there's patterns, like Hillary Clinton said. She said it's patterns. Just look at patterns. So what I'm saying is that the story of the Iran war is not separate from the Epstein file story, because Occam's Razor says that maybe kind of cortisor. Maybe that's part of the way that Bebe the Butcher got Donald Trump the dumb to go into a war, that he's been trying to get everybody since Bill Clinton who was in the hot tub, but maybe not in Epstein island to do. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Let's do our moment of joy. Our moment of joy tonight is not a moment of joy. It is a moment of. Huh.
- [117:14]
D
Good afternoon. The 10,113 meeting of the Security Council is called to order.
- [117:29]
A
Now you just have to know that the United Nations Security Council members were like, what the actual hell is happening? When Melania, whose movie has dropped out of the top 40 movies in the country, was supposed to be a hit, but it's done dropped all the way off the charts. That nobody, nobody went to see Melania's movie. So she was like, McDonald I need more thing I didn't get the movie did not be hit. I know I want thing. I want something. I want tea taken seriously. I speak seven languages. Maybe just not English. So they allowed Melania Trump, baby, to. To. To open the meeting of the United Nations Security Council. What is happening? Donald Trump. Whatever's in them Epstein files must be real bad because he giving Melania whatever the hell she wants. He said you want the. The rapey guy to direct a movie for you. Got you, baby. You want to ring the bell at the stock market. Ding, ding, ding. Baby, you wanna what you want? Oh, you want to be in charge of the United Nations Security Council? Man, take that lady over to the United nations. Because whatever's in the Epstein files is. Is so bad. It's so bad that Donald Trump is now enslaved to Melania. Trump slaved to Milania. He has to do whatever the hell she wants him to do. I Melania Thai Security Council. Begin. This lady is supposed to be a genius. She got a genius visa. Well, she was a Genius.
- [119:09]
D
At the 10113 meeting of the Security Council is called to order.
- [119:19]
A
Pop, Pop, I'm sorry. It's a moment of joy because it gave me joy. What is happening? Why is that lady in charge of the United Nations Security Council? Somebody help me, please. Somebody help me, please. Why? Why? Because she said Donald. I tell Epstein files. I tell. I have other three interviews with. With FBI. I. I speak fluid Slovenian. I. I give all names of Epstein fman. I read in Slovenian. Melania Trump is running the White House. Baby. Donald Trump said whatever you need, I got you. Y', all, thank you for tuning in. Thank you to all of our great guests. If you guys want some deep dives on on these upcoming elections, just go to joyan reid.com go ahead and become a paid subscriber and you can get in a deep dive with me and Tom Bonier tomorrow at noon. And by the way, Ms. Tom Lager Dove, who went in in on Christy Dome today and literally asked her if she was sleeping with Corinne Lewandowski. She asked that on the record. Honey, she will be here Monday. Monday. Kamlock or Dub, the best ass clap backer other than Jasmine Crockett in the Congress will be right here. Dove. We love her. She's the what? She's a say what lady. She gonna be here on Monday. You all have a blessed evening. And now the Security Council come to this or Doc done getting back to the basics.
- [120:54]
H
Grassroot level.
- [120:55]
A
Let me dig a little deeper with the shovel.
- [120:58]
H
Plenty can't tell the force from the trees that I'm hard to detect Like a black hole in a jaw Injustice anywhere, it's a threat to justice everywhere. Let me make this clear, I got a bone to pick and I'll never fear the threat of poverty. They don't want to talk about it,
- [121:12]
A
they rap the party.
- [121:13]
H
So I'm a real talk about it for sure.
- [121:18]
A
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