Crowd Work or Crowd Control? with Jay Jurden - CHIT CHAT WEDNESDAY - The JTrain Podcast w Jared Freid

Summary

The JTrain Podcast: "Crowd Work or Crowd Control? with Jay Jurden" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: March 5, 2025
Host: Jared Freid
Guest: Jay Jurden

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Introduction

In this episode of The JTrain Podcast, host Jared Freid welcomes comedian Jay Jurden for a lively discussion centered around the nuances of modern stand-up comedy. Recorded live from Jared’s hotel room in Australia, the episode delves into Jay’s role within the comedy community, the challenges faced by comedians in the age of social media, and the intricate dynamics of audience interaction.

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Jay Jurden: The Ombudsman of Comedy

Jared Freid introduces Jay Jurden as “a fantastic comedian” and highlights his significant presence on social media platforms like Twitter and Instagram. Jay is portrayed as a “talker” within the comedy scene, offering insightful commentary on the industry.

• Jared (02:11): “I keep an eye on your Twitter because you are like the ombudsman of the comedy community.”

Jay Jurden embraces this role, explaining his mission to “check the temperature of things” within the comedy world. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining honesty and authenticity, both on stage and online.

• Jay (02:27): “Why are we carving out and sanitizing versions of ourselves... we all as comedians have to also be social media managers now.”

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Authenticity vs. Sanitization in Social Media

The conversation transitions to the tension between presenting an authentic self and the pressures to curate a sanitized image on social media. Jay criticizes the trend of “standardized” personas that comedians adopt to fit audience expectations, drawing parallels to corporate ombudsmen who reflect on organizational practices objectively.

• Jay (04:05): “When it comes to TikTok, when it comes to Instagram... we've both done it. My Tonight show set isn't me.”

Jared concurs, highlighting the inevitable exposure of one's true self online:

• Jared (04:57): “The Internet will find you. So, like, I do think there's a lot of people that are giving this cleaned up version of themselves and at some point when they get in trouble...”

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The Impact of Commercialization and Algorithms on Stand-Up

Jay draws a comparison between the commercialization of stand-up comedy and the sports industry, emphasizing how “tech bro, Bay Area moneyball, hyper utilization” tactics are applied to comedy, prioritizing profit over artistic integrity.

• Jay (05:54): “We're applying it to stand up comedy... if the only time you play ball is when you set up a tripod in a gym by yourself...”

Jared expands on this by discussing how modern comedians often become “marketing managers”, navigating algorithms that dictate content visibility and success.

• Jared (06:36): “You're amongst marketing managers... we are more than any other era like, of comedy, of, of like is, is we.”

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Audience Interaction and Crowd Control

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on crowd work—the interaction between comedians and their audience—and the challenges it presents in maintaining control and engagement.

Jay expresses concern over the “sacrificed” audience members who are subjected to content primarily designed to appease algorithms rather than entertain genuinely.

• Jay (07:28): “You're being sacrificed for the greater good of this person's content. They're being sacrificed to the algorithm gods.”

Jared shares a personal anecdote about handling a mixed reaction from the audience, illustrating the delicate balance comedians must maintain to keep the crowd engaged without alienating individuals.

• Jared (08:16): “I keep doing my thing, but they're just like a drunken crowd... trying to drudge some energy out of this guy.”

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Challenges in Maintaining Originality

The episode delves into the escalation of tension and animosity within audiences, where confrontations can detract from the overall experience of the show. Jay warns of the potential for “dust ups” as audiences become more unpredictable.

• Jay (09:10): “There does tend to be an escalation... leading to these dust ups.”

Jared echoes these sentiments, describing interactions with "difficult audience members", highlighting the necessity for comedians to swiftly regain control and refocus the audience.

• Jared (10:17): “They have an attitude... it's like, what do you think you're casting me?”

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Evolution of Roast Culture

Jay critiques the modern interpretation of roast culture, distinguishing it from traditional roasts. He points out that contemporary roasts often lack the pre-established relationships and contextual boundaries that made classic roasts effective and respectful.

• Jay (14:17): “A roast is pre-written... You can literally talk about people's dead... really, best case scenario for me...”

Jared adds that the atmosphere at modern comedy shows often mirrors informal, unstructured settings, which can exacerbate misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

• Jared (15:30): “The atmosphere isn't acknowledged... you're going to make sure that like, there's no surprise.”

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Social Media’s Narrowing Influence on Comedy

The discussion shifts to how social media platforms like TikTok enforce narrow content strategies, compelling comedians to focus on specific hashtags and viral trends rather than exploring diverse creative avenues.

• Jay (25:47): “It's not in your best interest to be broad... Best interest to change hats.”

Jared concurs, emphasizing that this narrow focus can stifle creativity and limit the comedian's ability to surprise and engage varied audiences.

• Jared (26:03): “It's like, oh, this is my shot. This is it... If I don't wear it now, I'm not wearing it for the rest of the year.”

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Peaks and Pits: Personal Insights

Towards the latter part of the episode, Jared introduces a “Peaks and Pits” segment, encouraging Jay to share personal highs and lows related to specific topics.

1. Marriage

Jay shares both positive and challenging aspects of his married life.

• Peak (27:14): “My husband is so on top of things... Get married. This is coming from a place of privilege...”

• Pit (28:33): “The pit of marriage is... you got to sleep next to someone who might have just pissed you off...”

2. Sundance Film Festival

Jay reflects on his experiences at Sundance, highlighting the excitement of discovering new films and interacting with movie stars.

• Peak (30:26): “Getting to see movies... talk to Jesse Eisenberg... ground floor.”

• Pit (30:26): “The parties can peak the pit... security guards taking their job too seriously... it always snows and gets dirty fast.”

3. Writing for TV Shows

When discussing his experience writing for "The Problem with Jon Stewart", Jay outlines both the financial benefits and the creative limitations inherent in television writing.

• Peak (33:45): “The money is great... getting paid to ideate and like, riff and write stuff.”

• Pit (34:17): “There is so much that you are not in control of... handle that quickly... you lose your mind when you get residual checks touched by your team.”

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Challenges of Writing for Modern TV

Jay delves deeper into the intricacies of writing for a TV show under a corporate umbrella like Apple TV+, highlighting the lack of marketing control and the shifting priorities away from creative artistry to shareholder interests.

• Jay (36:30): “Apple TV plus... high-quality shot, well-written... people are surprised they're out.”

• Jay (39:00): “Family business... no one cares about the properties we created like they used to.”

Jared agrees, pointing out that mergers and acquisitions often dilute the creative essence of studios, prioritizing profit over genuine storytelling.

• Jared (38:40): “TV's probably the best lesson for why these M&A companies are a bad thing.”

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Branding and Consistency in Modern TV

The conversation shifts to the importance of branding in television, as exemplified by creators like Tyler Perry and Taylor Sheridan, who maintain a consistent vision across their various shows.

• Jay (41:01): “There's a brand there and consistency. There are not a lot of surprises... you stand a better chance.”

Jared parallels this with personal branding in comedy, noting that consistent presentation helps in cultivating a dedicated audience.

• Jared (41:32): “Having like one person be the conductor for multiple shows.”

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Jared encourages listeners to follow Jay Jurden on social media and attend his shows. He reiterates the essence of Chit Chat Wednesday, inviting the audience to tune in for future episodes.

• Jared (42:13): “Jay Jurden, thank you so much for coming on. This was fantastic... Chit Chat Wednesday, every Wednesday. Back next week.”

Jay reciprocates the gratitude, emphasizing the value of honest discourse within the comedy community.

• Jay (22:33): “Some of this seems like it's a little bit nuts. That's my primary function...”

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Notable Quotes

• Jay Jurden (02:27): “Why are we carving out and sanitizing versions of ourselves... we all as comedians have to also be social media managers now.”

• Jared Freid (04:57): “The Internet will find you... when they get in trouble...”

• Jay Jurden (05:54): “We're applying it to stand up comedy... if the only time you play ball is when you set up a tripod in a gym by yourself...”

• Jay Jurden (14:17): “A roast is pre-written... You can literally talk about people's dead... really, best case scenario for me...”

• Jay Jurden (25:47): “It's not in your best interest to be broad... Best interest to change hats.”

• Jay Jurden (33:45): “The money is great... getting paid to ideate and like, riff and write stuff.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of the evolving landscape of stand-up comedy, emphasizing the delicate balance comedians must maintain between authenticity and commercial demands. Through insightful dialogue, Jared Freid and Jay Jurden shed light on the pressures of social media, the intricacies of audience management, and the broader implications of commercialization on artistic integrity. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and triumphs faced by modern comedians striving to remain genuine in an increasingly digitized and profit-driven world.

Transcript

[Jared Freed]

Chit Chat Wednesday for you to listen to. I have a guess who will be your new boo. You're gonna love them too. Chit Chat Wednesday. I hope you're having a good day today. I hope it's gonna be a perfect week too. I hope you have a nice poo. It's a chat Wednesday too. Hello and welcome to the J Train Podcast. It's a Chit Chat Wednesday and today's guest is Jay Jerd. And Jay is a fantastic comedian that I love, love, love watching perform on stage. What I also love about Jay is that he is a talker. Jay is hilarious on Twitter and on Instagram and really has a lot of commentary on stand up as a whole that I take a lot of interest in and just love to hear from him because we generally agree. So enjoy today's episode. I'm here in Australia, my hotel room. I'm coming to you, you know, live. We taped it a while back because I got ahead with Chit Chat Wednesday. So enjoy today's episode. You're gonna love Jay as much as I do. Welcome to the new J Train podcast. Foreign hello and welcome to J Train Podcast. This is J Train Jared Freed coming live from the West Village of Manhattan. That's right, every Wednesday is a Chit Chat Wednesday where I have a friend or comedian or expert on to have a little chit chat with. And today we are lucky enough to have all three, friend, comedian and expert. And this is where we're gonna start today, I think an expert shit talker on the comedy community, hilarious comedian Jay Jerden. Give it up for Jay Jerden. Thank you for coming on.

[Jay Jordan]

Thank you for having me. I love that introduction.

[Jared Freed]

I'm so happy you're here. Huge fan. I love watching you on stage. Your standup is great and I've taken an interest in your Twitter.

[Jay Jordan]

Thank you.

[Jared Freed]

I keep an eye on your Twitter because you are like the ombudsman of the comedy community.

[Jay Jordan]

I love a vocabulary term, tell everyone why it's necessary and why there used to be so many more people who would just every now and then check the temperature of things.

[Jared Freed]

Well, I do think it's a. It is a smart thing to have someone who just like. So the ombudsman's like the hired in house person to like kind of just put the mirror up to the company, so to speak. And it happens at magazines and newspapers. And I remember the only reason I know I'm Budsman, I am no SAT word person, but ESPN.com hired one. I remember when ESPN was like big, like at its probably biggest. And I remember it was like an older woman. I can't remember who it was, but I remember reading that article and I thought it was just so interesting to see this. Like, very fair. Like, it wasn't taking shots. It was really just a little bit of like, here are things that we're kind of like doing. Here's what we're missing. And then I go to your Twitter and you. I, I would say it's sassy, but I, I definitely. But that's, you know, it's your personality. It's not out of left field.

[Jay Jordan]

And my big question is, why are we carving out and sanitizing versions of ourselves? I mean, when it comes to tick tock, when it comes to Instagram, when it comes to the fact that we all as comedians have to also be social media managers now I understand that there's so many different versions of you. You won't presented. We've both done it. My Tonight show set isn't me. It's a version of me.

[Jared Freed]

Sure.

[Jay Jordan]

Cleared by standards and practices that's going to make, you know, people in Ohio laugh. My fear is that on Twitter, everyone's like, oh, Twitter is evil. And I'm like, yeah, it always was. And are you gonna, are you gonna be a goody two shoes now that it's evil? It seems like we're taking away the wrong lesson from Michelle Obama.

[Jared Freed]

Well, it's like we're our own standards and practices. Yeah, almost. And it's like, listen, I like when I see. I don't think, like, there's a bit for me, I. Two things. I do think the Internet, you have to be the most honest version of yourself. You will be found out at some point. The Internet will find you. So, like, I do think there's a lot of people that are giving this like, cleaned up version of themselves and at some point when they get in trouble, quote, unquote trouble.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Is when the, their audience is like, wait a minute, you brought me here under this brand and now this is the actual brand. And that's when someone gets. And I don't even believe people get canceled as much as people don't buy their tickets anymore. Go. They're not what I thought they were. I was brought here under, under, you know, a misguided, you know, you know, venture, so to speak. When I do think, like, there's a, When I see like, like when I want to call out people, I would. For me, I like doing it in a podcast sense. If I'm gonna speak Generally, just because I'm like, I, I. And I agree with a lot of what you say or what I think you're saying is that when I go to your Twitter and you're calling out kind of comedy stuff, it's like, I think your frustration is. Where my frustration is. Where the normal person's frustration is, is like this kind of lack of work that is resulting in huge profits. Like they're not even doing the thing.

[Jay Jordan]

We're taking these weird kind of tech bro, Bay Area moneyball, hyper utilization, streamlining of art and effort and we're applying it to stand up comedy. Now you're a sports guy. I like sports. A couple things. If you can't make an open jumper, you don't get to say you're in the NBA. You don't get to. If the only time you play ball is when you set up a tripod in a gym by yourself and you edit the footage, you don't get to say you're in the NBA. That's it.

[Jared Freed]

And that's what's going on. I think, you know, we are more than any other era like, of comedy, of, of like is, is we. We're amongst marketing managers. Like, there are a lot of people that would have been like the mark and they would have been millionaires there too. They would have been the marketing manager at Nike or, you know, a commercial company or whatever it is. And it's like the frustrating part is you're like, like, like I see it a lot where like I go to clubs and if they tape the show, I'm told by the club that some people find out that they have like the, the film system already in place and they're like, when the comedian or whoever here was booked hears about that, they just go around the room, where are you from? What do you do? Where are you from? Because they're like, I can get my year's worth of crap from this harvest.

[Jay Jordan]

You know, and this poor crowd that has to sit through that and the poor people who don't understand that this is, they're being sacrificed for the greater good of this person's content. And kind of a, they're, they're, they're a sacrifice to the algorithm. Algorithm gods. I even have noticed a bit more recently that people are sort of acquiescing. They're going, oh, I really don't expect stand up to be good. I'm hearing audience members say they don't expect shows to be good. To their surprise, they go, oh my God. You just kept going. You just Told jokes for an hour. Oh, my God, you can't believe us with punchlines, right? Have you rehearsed it? Yes, baby, yes.

[Jared Freed]

I had someone come up to me. I can't remember. They were someone that was a friend and they, I think I was in San Francisco and they, they were telling me how great your show was. They, they were like, they were like, we just saw Jay Jordan and we didn't even know him from anything. We just walked into the punchline and yeah, it was amazing. I'm like, yeah, like, we all know the people that were like, go to that one, don't go to that one. And it's like, it is a little sad because, you know, the thing that we're dealing with is like, not a lot of people actually like stand up comedy. Like, it's a niche thing. So, like, if someone goes to a show, it's one a year, maybe at most. So, like, if someone goes to a show and they're sitting there the whole time hearing someone tell, ask someone about how they dated their person for like the last three weeks. Yeah, we lose, we all lose that person.

[Jay Jordan]

We all lose that person. And there does tend to be an escalation, I think, and I hope I'm wrong. I, I would even say I fear, I fear that an escalation of tension and animosity and confrontation with that front row will continue to lead to these dust ups. We saw one this week, we'll see them every couple of weeks now where there's going to be a newer version of what people think they're supposed to see, when in reality, best case scenario for me, you leave my show, you go, oh my God, my ribs hurt. I laugh so much. Oh, my God, Jay is able to tie so much fun stuff together. I gotta make sure I tell other people to see him. I'll try to see his thing on whenever it's streaming on whatever platform. Oh, maybe Cass is guying something now. People are going, oh, man, I almost got in a fight. Oh, oh, man, oh man, I can't believe that guy got cheated on in the front row with that lady. Can you believe that?

[Jared Freed]

Okay, that's not what we want.

[Jay Jordan]

It's not even like talking about this couple.

[Jared Freed]

No, I had it last night actually. I, I was on stage, it's a late show on a Thursday and I'm like doing my thing and like I went to take a breath and I'm like having a good set, but they were like disjointed. Like they were just like a drunken crowd. And I'M I took a breath and I look to my right and there's this girl, she's sitting with two men and she's laughing and I, and the one guy is just like, he's just like, I'm not buying it face. And I, I go, it's so weird that I'm doing so well with her and so horribly with you and like to just to acknowledge. And it was like never meant to like make that person feel badly. It's more just like, let me see if I can drudge some energy out of this guy who's like literally facing the whole crowd with his like very like not fun. Ph.

[Jay Jordan]

So many clubs that have that seat where you are parallel with that chunk of the audience and they. There's an acknowledgment as a comic where you just let them know you're gonna be part of the show. So you might as well laugh because if not they g. Just so you.

[Jared Freed]

Know, I'm letting you know they're almost like the, the sign language person to let the crowd know whether it's funny or not. And, and I, and the guy looks back at me, he goes, he like literally like I say that to him. I go, I can't believe I'm this funny to her and that not funny.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And he looks at his friends and says something to them. I go, what happened? He goes, I was just telling them there that you're like, I laughed at all the other guys and I'm like. And it was like fists up right away. And it was like I wasn't really. I. And I do think the clips and the crowd work thing kind of has to do with that where he's like, gotta get this. I'm not gonna be down by this comedian. I'm like, yeah, I was, I was just trying to like make you smile at how badly I was doing with you. If anything, this is like a self deprecating thing and it would turned into like a 10 minute I. Because now I had like the whole crowd goes, oh. And now I'm in the arena, now I'm Roman, you know, in the, in the, you know, gotta go at it with the tiger, you know.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah. And you have to, you have to re. Establish room control. I think that because there are two different games going on, there's your set, but there's also the world in which you get to do your set. And those two things happen kind of like at the same time and they both stop and start for comics that you have to re. Establish your control. In the room. Because comics, we're substitute teachers, okay? We come in. You don't respect us. You ain't supposed to. I don't have a real degree. I get it, right?

[Jared Freed]

But guess you don't know me. I'm not even famous, right? I've done nothing.

[Jay Jordan]

And, and what's wild is that seeding that much control to these unruly children who are lovely patrons and we love the fact that they still enjoy comedy. Seeding too much control to them is a nightmare for servers. It's a nightmare for the host. It's a nightmare for the next comic, right? If it's a headliner show, it's. It's a nightmare for that night. And you go, never. People kind of, what they, what they see is a clip that blows up. And then I think the majority of people go, oh, I have too much social anxiety for it to ever be me. But there are groups of people who go, oh, yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait to say something crazy.

[Jared Freed]

And those people, you know, they're the worst audience members. They're the ones that you're like, you want someone who's just like, like, I think fuddy Duddy dad is like such a pleasure, you know, like that didn't even know what he was walking into and like, fists up, you know, Matthew, the pilot to my right, who won't laugh at anything, like, let me see how funny you are. I. I'm a big Rogan fan. I'll see if you could. You're. You've never been on there. Let me see if you got what it takes. It's like, what do you think you're casting me? Like, yeah, there is an attitude.

[Jay Jordan]

And like, I know I get a lot of. I get a lot of flack for like me making fun of the crowd work of it all. I think there have been like, it kind of dovetails into something that's way older than crowd work by a little bit, but still of the LA to Austin variety, which is also this emphasis on roast being the first thing that some people want to see. And so people, I mean, people will go, oh, but Dom Rickles used to roast everyone. And you go, yeah. And then he'd get up and roast Johnny Carson. Like there was. That was completely different setting sometimes, but people really kind of want to roast the comic, then they want to be roasted. And a roast is like established. A roast is pre written. A roast has a deus. A roast has a host, A roast has a target. A, you know, I mean, in A roast. You can literally talk about people's dead. Dead parents. You can hope someone dies of an incurable disease. You can talk about their show getting canceled. You can truly needle people with the knowledge that they have something ready for you. If you would have told that man, I mean, I just. If you would have actually roasted him. Roasted him.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Jay Jordan]

You look so. You look evil.

[Jared Freed]

Right? There's for no reason whatsoever. I just turned and saw a guy and I was like, look at this idiot. Like, what happened here? Yeah, you bring up a good point. The atmosphere isn't acknowledged. And we know it's not acknowledged because how many times someone's like, hey, we're going to do a show. We're going to do it in our living room. And you're like, yeah, you don't know how this works. They're like, yeah, everyone will stand around you while you do the show for my family. And you're like, no, no, no. You think that works? You think that that's how this whole thing goes?

[Jay Jordan]

I even think sometimes the. The people who really. A roast is really sort of like, dangerous for non comedians because what happens is, like, they will get their feelings hurt because there's no pre established relationship. There's no conversation. It's like when. Whenever, like a clip is up about a guy, like, oh, this guy's a cuck. Oh, this woman's cheating on him. There is a level where I go, the comic has to know the line because these. A lot of these dudes, the comedy shows, they. They're already a hundred dollars, maybe one hundred fifty into the date that night.

[Jared Freed]

Right, right, right.

[Jay Jordan]

Maybe don't call his dick little. Okay. Maybe don't call his dick little.

[Jared Freed]

Right. Let this guy go home and like, let him have. Right, right, right. You were supposed to assist that. You weren't supposed to take away from that. Yeah, it is. I mean, it's wild what we're seeing. I. That's why I love seeing. When you start talking about it on Twitter, I'm like, okay, good. I don't feel crazy.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Like, some of this seems like it's a little bit nuts.

[Jay Jordan]

That's primarily. That's my primary function, is I do want other people who are my comedy peers, whose people, whose stuff I like to know that, like, you're not crazy. This is wild. There weren't any jokes in that clip. You're not crazy. This is. Wow, that special was terrible. And I don't mean terrible because it says something that wasn't necessarily progressive. I mean, just from a joke Writing standpoint, from a structure standpoint, it was sophomore, it was entry level, it was bad. It will make people think that it's the reason why so many people feel comfortable putting their thumbs on their phones and saying Netflix doesn't even have funny stand up anymore. And you go, oh my God. Now we've, we've become so crazy that now these people are telling me that Netflix doesn't have funny people anymore, which is such a broad statement. They go, right, you know, it's actually funnier a baby eating a lemon for the first time. Sure. I bet, I bet that this baby on TikTok is going to make you laugh in 30 seconds. I guarantee is.

[Jared Freed]

It's frustrating. It's frustrating to see and it's like we have to like do we do have to do a level of protection for what we do. There has. Because we have no barriers to entry. Anyone can put anything online, anyone can get on stage, go to the open mic, go to the set up your tripod, have just like you said, in an empty gym, put some laugh tracks on it, which we are also seeing happening. Which, yeah, laugh tracks on their Instagram clips. And you're like, you know, and then they're getting in someone. This is all crazy. It's like in the Upside Down.

[Jay Jordan]

And the wildest part about that, is that what I'm saying, what other people are saying is nothing new. I, I grew up with tough crowd. I grew up with Last Comic Standing where a little talk doesn't kill anyone. Listen, listen. If you, if you got your 3 mil from your two Netflix specials and every now and then someone goes write a joke. Hey, you want to write new joke? That's not the meanest thing someone can say to you, right? It really isn't.

[Jared Freed]

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[Jay Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

That I get mad when I see it. The dishonest version.

[Jay Jordan]

The end. I think there's a level of. There's a level of artistry in that. I think practice. I think cultivation, I think quality control. I respect so many people's work. Not because it's brand new to me, because it's good because I go, God damn it. They are a murderer. They are a crusher. Oh, my gosh. They body, they destroy. This is someone who you have to see perform. And then I see some people want to go, wow, they make so much money. Good for them. And guess what? Make your money. But sadly, and I've seen this happen with a lot of people, but notably with one very famous example, the fans and the money you make, you can't get mad at them. You can't get mad that you have this group of fans when you want Shane's fans. You can't get mad that you're not. That you don't get to hang out with Stavros when Stavros doesn't like your style. You don't get to be mad that Dan Soder and the crew don't respect you. When you're doing the opposite of everything they love, you don't get to get mad.

[Jared Freed]

Right? Well, that's. That's the thing. I've seen that before. I've opened for people where they don't like the audience that follows them. And I'm like, aren't you the reason. You're. You're the sticky. You're the sticky pad. You're cultivated.

[Jay Jordan]

This.

[Jared Freed]

You. This is what you brought. I watched it. I was. It was years ago. I was opening for this guy, and, like, a guy came up to him and was like, yo. Hit him in the shoulder. He was like, I just. And he got so mad. And I'm like, the person who hit him in the shoulder was, like, exactly who I would imagine would love his stuff. And I'm like, you know, like, and. And, like, I, you know, I have gone and done shows, and, like, I get compliments because I get, like, a lot of, like, you know, women that don't normally go to comedy clubs. And I'm like. And at first I was like. I was like, cool. Like, and then I started, like, getting kind of, like. I, like, feel good about it. I'm like, wow, that. And these are my people. These are people that I would. I've entertained since, you know, these are friends, you know?

[Jay Jordan]

Exactly. Well, there's a. There's a target demo, then there's an actual demo. And then there's always, like, a little bit surprise crossover. I mean, I have a bunch of people who love my stuff because they're comedy nerds, and I have a bunch of people who love my stuff because they're queer. I have people who love my stuff because they're young and black. I have people who love my stuff because they're a girl, but their guy loves comedy. They bring their guy, their guy looks at my stuff, sees the podcast, goes, oh, I know. He was. Oh, I like his stuff. Oh, I know. I was going to get a couple NBA jokes. NFL. Okay. Oh, wait a second. I like this guy. I think that that is the beauty of kind of being a burgeoning artist. That's the beauty of, like, making your way through the beginnings of your career. But. And this ties back to what we said before. But now, because everyone wants to be a social media manager so quickly and so fast, they hyper focus and they incentivize basically glorified meet and greets instead of, like, shows. So now you have these people who can't even surprise people because there's no surprise. You.

[Jared Freed]

They've zoned in on a hashtag, you know. Yeah, it. That is. That. That's interesting because a tik tok too like, it will. It. It's not in your best interest to be broad. It's not in your best interest to do a bunch of different things. You have to do the thing.

[Jay Jordan]

Best interest to change hats. You understand how crazy it is. It's like, oh, I'm so used to you wearing this thing. I thought you wore these things all the time. You remember? I mean, we're. We were both like kind of semi early adopters. They were like, oh, you should do the same thing at the beginning of all your videos. So now you have these people whose lives they don't even have names. They go, oh, you're the girl who does this stuff in the bathroom mirror all the time. You. You created this. You created it. I love it. I love the fact that I can just post a clip and they'll do whatever it's going to do if it'll do whatever is going to do. But guess what? I don't have to literally do the same choreography every day. No one's ever going to be like, oh, you're outside. I've never seen you outside. What?

[Jared Freed]

Right. What do you. Wait a minute.

[Jay Jordan]

Crazier. You're inside. I've never seen you in this. Whoa, wait a minute.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, let's. Okay, so I want to play a game with you.

[Jay Jordan]

Okay, let's play a game.

[Jared Freed]

I was going to play a game called Peaks and pits. I want to hear your peaks and pits of these things that have to do with, you know, just a surface level. Look at your life.

[Jay Jordan]

Okay, got it.

[Jared Freed]

Being married.

[Jay Jordan]

Ooh, Be married. Peak, peak, peak. Oh, my good. Just financially save up, y'all. Also, I. I love being married primarily because my husband is so on top of things that whenever I'm on top of something, I'm like, look at both of us. But he's. I mean, get. Get married. I know. This is so. This is coming from a place of privilege to people who are trying to figure out how to get married and when they get married, get married. And this is for straight women to find a nice Southern gay boy. He's not going to come out. He's going to be in the closet forever. He'll love you.

[Jared Freed]

Right?

[Jay Jordan]

That's what I did. Found a nice Southern gay.

[Jared Freed]

Is it. Is it that, like, so is when you're seeing that he's killing it. Is it the shared brain aspect of it? Is it the shared win aspect of it? What? What is it that.

[Jay Jordan]

Does it help you if I'm superficial? My closet has doubled. It's an insane win. It's an insane I. The boutique. That is my husband's closet. It is perfect boss. He gets on my stuff, too. I think the shared brain aspect of it and this sort of like, you don't have to fight New York City alone. New York City is a fight. Yes. Get some help. Get a little bit of help.

[Jared Freed]

Okay. Okay. Pit of marriage.

[Jay Jordan]

Okay. The pit of marriage. The pit of marriage is okay. Like today he was like, are you gonna be in the office for the entire podcast? I said, yes. You need to come in and get your stuff now, because I'm not being. You can be in the background if you want. Even. Even. Once again, I have princess problems. Yesterday, he was like, I need you to be in the bedroom because I know you can hear my therapy session. I said, what have you been saying that you're so scared I might overhear something in the kitchen. It's far away.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah.

[Jay Jordan]

Are you screaming about me? So that. I mean, another pit. Is you actually a pit to being married? Is that if there's an argument, you really don't get to go back to your place to cool off.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Jay Jordan]

You got. You got to sleep next to someone who might have just pissed you off and know in your head that, like, oh, if I'm. Oh, my God, I can't go to sleep now.

[Jared Freed]

So are they funny that you're. It's funny that you're peak and pit. Like, the peak is sharing, and then the pit is sharing. It is truly like most things in life. It is gravity. It is what goes down.

[Jay Jordan]

Rose and thorn of it all. I mean, he's like, A, he's a. He's so complimentary to me. And he has this beautiful, wonderful existence outside of me and has all these amazing friends. A husband with some friends. He's going out tonight. Guess what? He ain't coming to see. People always ask, how many shows does he come to? And I always say the important ones.

[Jared Freed]

Right?

[Jay Jordan]

You think. You think he's coming to every show? Come on now.

[Jared Freed]

It's not bringing your husband to work day every day now.

[Jay Jordan]

Well, you listen. Some people have to. Some people got to keep out.

[Jared Freed]

Okay. Peaks and pit. Sundance Film Festival. You've gone last two years.

[Jay Jordan]

Yes.

[Jared Freed]

What do you. Okay, what do you love about it? What do you hate about it?

[Jay Jordan]

The peak of Sundance is getting to see movies. Getting to see. Getting to see movie stars, getting to talk to them, getting to kind of feel like you're part of undiscovered gems in Hollywood. Like, Real Pain, which has like a couple Oscar noms. I got to see that before everyone. I got to talk to Jesse Eisenberg. Like, that kind of stuff.

[Jared Freed]

You go, oh, ground floor.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah, ground floor. You. You get. It feels very. Like if you went to high school in 2000s, it feels very. Oh, I kind of. I knew about that before they blew up, but go off, you know, so that's one of the peaks. And I would even say. I would even say the parties can peak the pit. Semi. Semi related to the marriage thing. Some of the parties at Sundance, you'll see a security guard taking their job so seriously. And you'd be like, this is a chase. Sapphire Lounge. I want you to know something. This is not an exclusive club in la. You aren't even LA security. You drove an hour from Salt Lake to stand outside. I love you, but come on, man. Maybe don't take this job super seriously. Also, it always snows, and the snow gets dirty so fast, it's pristine for a minute and then it's just disgusting.

[Jared Freed]

So you're from the south, so you don't have the relation to snow and how quick that can go.

[Jay Jordan]

I didn't know. I've been in New York since 2015, so I've quickly learned. But in Sunday, it's because it's so snow focused, that snow. It snows and it gets disgusting. You also get to see, like, these tiny actors and actresses walking around in these, like, very nonsensical shoes. And you go, what's going to happen here? What, What's. What's. How are we getting over this?

[Jared Freed]

The attire there. I've been to Park City and there's like a store in that main drag that has, like, all the fur.

[Jay Jordan]

Oh, yeah. With the burkini store. Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

For King. Yeah. I've taken a picture of it, and it's like, you have a moment where you're like, oh, this is a joke. But it's like, no, it's not. This is no what people are wearing here.

[Jay Jordan]

I mean, similar to Nashville and Texas, because I'm from Mississippi. And, like, in Mississippi, you saw cowboy hats when people were going to the rodeo and when people. And when, like, actual country people, like, thought they were dressing up, but the amount of cowboy hats just. They come in. It's hard.

[Jared Freed]

It's their chance. I mean, I have a hat that I got from Kimosabe, and people that's.

[Jay Jordan]

In here, my husband. Listen, we're literally planning our cowboy Carter outfits. And he was like, yeah, I know that a lot of people get their hats from Kimmy. Kimo Sabe. And he also is, like, looking at these, like, Margiela, like, tabby cowboy boots. But it's just, like, one of those things where, like. Like, you said, like, you go, this is my shot.

[Jared Freed]

This is it.

[Jay Jordan]

This is.

[Jared Freed]

If I don't wear it now, I'm not wearing it, like, the rest of the year. No, I get that. Like this. I'm looking at the hat right now, and I'm like, I remember when I bought it, I was like, okay, what are the cities that I perform in that I can wear this? Like, that was how I did the math on whether I should buy this ridiculous hat or not. Okay, one more. You ready?

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah. One more.

[Jared Freed]

Two more, Two more.

[Jay Jordan]

Okay, two more.

[Jared Freed]

Okay. You wrote for the Problem with Jon Stewart.

[Jay Jordan]

Yes.

[Jared Freed]

The peak and pit of writing for a TV show. Ooh.

[Jay Jordan]

The peak is the money. TV money is regular. If you're a blood for punishment like me, this is what you do. You clock in. You clock in from 10 to 6. You eat, you go do sets. Do you just kind of keep your comedy muscle strong? Because the biggest thing that you hear is that people, like, atrophy, like golden handcuffs. So the money is great. The regular money, residual money. When you get a residual check, when you get a green envelope from the wga, you lose your mind, because also, your team then get to touch that at all.

[Jared Freed]

Meaning that the. You don't pay an agent or a manager on residual. Okay, yeah.

[Jay Jordan]

So that. I mean, like, that truly the peak. I know a lot of people and be like, oh, working with Jon Stewart, learning political comedy from the guy who, like, invented for the modern ERA love that. But that money, that money, my God, you think my husband can get a hat for Kimasabi if John Stewart and Apple didn't pay me right?

[Jared Freed]

So listen, I, I, I, you're getting paid well to do something that you're, that you're loving.

[Jay Jordan]

I mean, listen and, cause like you throw all your stuff towards the episode, you throw all your jokes and you learn not to be precious with stuff because you don't get paid that week even if they only use two of your things. If like your big contribution that week was a joke and rewrite, that was a fun riff with John and they say, okay, let's set that, that was fun. But like figure out how to make sure that gets put in the script now. And you could be like, oh, I was working on this sketch that got like gutted and this one sketch that like everyone loved and we didn't know how to, we didn't know like how if it was going to actually fit because the runtime, so you have like moments like that. But then like at the end of the day you are like getting paid to idea, to idea and to like riff and write stuff, which is like fun. The pit, I would say the pit for TV shows is that there is so much that you are not in control of that if you have any control issues, you gotta, you, you have to handle that quickly. Like, okay, case in point, we're on Apple TV plus now. They make great phones, great headphones, great iPads, great computers. You know, they could be a little bit better at marketing. My God, Apple TV plus the amount of beautifully produced, like high quality shot, well written, well acted shows, prestige shows, some would argue that people are surprised are out.

[Jared Freed]

Right? I, I've seen so many like trailers for Apple TV shows that you go, this looks amazing and right. And you had no idea it even existed, even lived on this planet. Yeah, totally agree.

[Jay Jordan]

I mean, I know why. It's because like, I mean if we look at tv, their TV budget is like, it could be a rounding error for their phone and everything else.

[Jared Freed]

Budget, like, right, well, that was the thing with Apple TV is like, people are like, why even do this? Like, what? So you know TV at these companies, like, if you listen to enough like podcasts about like kind of how the money works when they get bought by these like mega tech companies, there's like nothing to be gained from them other than we make art and a point of pride. But like when you're like dealing with the algorithm and shareholders, like the pride goes out the wind. No there's no head honcho that's like, we made Ted Lasso. Like, no one cares. In the old days of Hollywood, people would go, that's our property. You know, it was a family business, more or less. Yeah.

[Jay Jordan]

Family business. People would have said, look at all these awards we got for Ted Lasso. We are the place you go to for this stuff.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Jay Jordan]

We are going to have a tesso spin off. We're going to make sure that we, like, have everything, like, related to these entities and this property that we created. And now I think sometimes they're happy they get to work with certain people, but they re. I mean, like, Apple has so much. Apple has. I'll explain. Like, this Apple had enough money to bring Jennifer Aniston back, back to tv. A woman who famously made over a million dollars an episode.

[Jared Freed]

Right. Like, plus residuals, plus, you know, syndication.

[Jay Jordan]

And she got all that Aveeno money. There's no reason she should ever have to memorize lines again if she don't want to.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Jay Jordan]

But that's crazy.

[Jared Freed]

It's the lesson, you know, TV's probably the best lesson for, like, why, you know, these M and A companies are, like, a bad thing. Like, if you think about it, like, you know, you're gonna go buy, like, you're gonna be a tech company that owns tv. Like, it can't make you money.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

It can't even, you know, so, like, as opposed to, like, the mom and Pop shop, which is the, you know, you know, the. The. The lot. The studio over in la, which we used to think were these big things, but, like, if you think about it, like, no, they were making good business for them. Not enough for, like, you know, Wall Street. I don't know. Yeah.

[Jay Jordan]

And the TV money then was. They were like, oh, man, great episode. But you won't believe the Pringles commercial you're about to see, because that's where the money is.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Jay Jordan]

Still have that model. We're going to see it on Sunday. But there is.

[Jared Freed]

Before the Super Bowl. But. Yes, yeah, super bowl.

[Jay Jordan]

Whenever that comes out. But there is. I don't know, it is a while to, like, know that you're not, like, you're contributing a lot, you're crafting a lot. But the pit of it is that you do not have any marketing control. I mean, I look at an example. To me, that's beautiful. And it's such a happy. I'm so happy it worked out. But with Abbott elementary, like, I know writers for that, and they're, like, so happy because they're basically going kind of back to the 22 episode schedule. They're going back to like writers getting to develop and become producers and become like way bigger at their job. Because for a while we had these 10 week rooms. We had like this like wild, wild west situation for creating tv. So. Yeah, you don't have control.

[Jared Freed]

Well, the Abbott elementary, you know, of it all is like there used to be four of those every night on three different networks.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Now it's like the. It's probably one of like, you can count on one hand how many just like that right now. So it's like they won. I would assume anyone that works that show feels like they have a lottery ticket that they.

[Jay Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Have.

[Jay Jordan]

Oh, my God. You know, and it's so funny because, like the other version of it, the other version of the thing that really works now and it's so wild that this caught on is having like one person be kind of like this conductor for three or four different shows. It's the Tyler Perry and the Taylor Sheridan approach.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Jay Jordan]

Where you kind of go, this is the world I'm envisioning. And all the shows are sort of connected, but sort of not. And I'm the central voice. But I'm gonna make sure that like, there's a, there's a brand. And I think that the reason why people like it is because there is a brand there and consistency.

[Jared Freed]

There's not a lot of surprises. I mean, that used to be. If you think about it, I, I agree that that used to be, you know, Thursday night on NBC, you go, yeah, I'll just put it on. You know, like, I'm, I'm good.

[Jay Jordan]

And with, I mean, you talk about kimasabe hats. We have like a lot of people who are like, oh, why do I love like Land man and Yellowstone a lot? And like, we know it's because, oh, baby, even if you're a man, you like soap operas. Right?

[Jared Freed]

Right, right. Well, svu, professional wrestling, you know, that's all soap operas.

[Jay Jordan]

You like double crosses. You like.

[Jared Freed]

Yes.

[Jay Jordan]

He's like shaking someone and being like, you're not gonna get my family's money, you son of a. Like, you love that. And that still comes on from 11 to 4pm but now you can also watch it on Paramount whenever you want.

[Jared Freed]

Jay, Jordan, thank you so much for coming on. This was fantastic. I want everyone to go follow Jay at Jay Jerden on all social medias, on the road, doing shows everywhere. You're going to love Jay. Go, go, go. I'm Jared Free Chit chat Wednesday, every Wednesday. Back next week. Boom.