A (3:04)

I mean, your kids are literally the whole list of things to check off. That's hilarious. I. Because here's the thing. I'm wondering if it's my age or if it's the times we live.

B (3:18)

Dude, we're getting. We're getting old, bro.

A (3:19)

So we're getting old. We. It might. It's probably my age, but, like, is, like, am I noticing more political things, or is it just more political right now? Like. Like. Like the idea that, like, the selectman would elicit. Because I bring you on, because you and I met, you were the chief of staff at Huffington Post. A friend, a mutual friend of ours worked at Huffington Post, put us in touch with each other. I was trying to write stuff and put stuff on the website to try and get a following myself for comedy. You're with Huffington Post. I'm like, come out to my shows, Check out what I'm doing. And that's kind of how we started getting in contact with one another. And then I'm, like, watching from one angle. I'm sure you're watching my stuff as I'm putting it up over the years, and I'm watching you, and I have, like, I feel like I hold the rookie card for you. Like, I've watched you, you know, you're working in the White house. You're in D.C. you're doing all these amazing things. You went to Harvard. Harvard Business. Like, I know your wife, Amy. You guys have been at shows of mine when they were at bars. And, like, I'm, like, super proud with what you're doing. But it's. Which always. I think of you a lot when it comes to political talk, because I'm like, there's someone that disagrees with whatever platform you're, like, you're running, and you're going up to be the selectman for this one area of Massachusetts. And there's someone that, like, is, like, kind of making you out to be the devil. Like, which is, like. Which is, like, so crazy to me because, like, knowing you, you're like, that. If I disagreed with you on something, I would still know you as the person and go, no, that's Daniel. He's a good guy. Like, I'm sure is doing what he thinks is in the best interest of the Group, which is hard to do because that's not individuals. You're doing what's best for the group at whole, which sometimes leave someone a little worse off than they would have been if you're attending to certain groups. So I. What do you like to you as a. With political aspirations? Like, how do you. Like, how do you bridge that? How do you tell someone who, like, hears you mention health care and they're like, oh, no, he's one of those. You know what I mean? Yeah, no there. But do we even care about those people who are so emotionally distressed by hearing health care? Do we care? Do they matter? Are.

B (5:41)

It's a great question. It's a great question. I think it's why people are so. Can I. Can I drop F bombs on this?

A (5:46)

Is this whatever the. Damn you. No, you can say whatever the.

B (5:50)

You want. Yeah, you're good. We're from Massachusetts, so. Look, look, I. Look, this is why people are so sick of politics in general, right? On either side of the aisle, because it's so hyperbolic in the way you go, they're going to do this or you're going to get that, or you're, you know, whatever that people just like these people are acting like kids. Like we were raised, you know, to buy by our parents that if you disagree with someone, you work it out, right? Like, you don't be a bully on the schoolyard, you know, all that stuff. The amount of immaturity that happens in D.C. on both sides of the aisle, candidly throwing ad hominem attacks, like, personal attacks on people, you know, just like shouting at people is not what we were taught when we were six years old to do. And so I think that's the reason why half the country, even the most contentious election, half the country stays home because they just don't. They think that this is not even speaking to me. And I think both sides have an issue. What I think has made it even worse is that with social media, and you know this better than anyone else, algorithms reward division, right? They reward that aspect. And it's just how it is that people want to get the clicks, they want to get the likes. And the cheap way to do that is to personally attack other people, because people will retweet it, whatever, it'll make news. And that is just when you have 435 people, as I said before, you. You have this temptation to become that kind of caricature of yourself. Like, I think a lot of people genuinely get into politics because they want to help people, you know, I. I care about, you know, when I was working in. In town, you know, I care a lot about getting a good restaurant in the town, because as everyone knows, when they grow up, there's a couple restaurants in your town where everyone goes to. And if. If that were to go away, it would be a big hit to the town. I know it sounds silly, but it's really important, right?

A (7:27)

No, but that. That makes it more relatable to me. It makes more relatable version.

B (7:33)

But then people get to D.C. and they get invited to go on TV, and they get invited to, like, they see their account grow, and they're like, okay, how can I make my account grow more? Well, if you throw a haymaker at your Republican opponent or Democrat opponent. So I think that has caused a division beyond what was typical. Just like, I disagree with Daniel.

A (7:51)

Let me stop you for a second, because if anyone's like, well, that's just politics speak. That's the same for comedy. I see it with comedy, where it's like, you'll see a comic who's pretty good and they don't really have an audience, and then suddenly they. They go over whatever line exists, and they get people defending them to no ends, and they get people attacking them to no ends. And you can see the glimmer in their eye. They're like, oh, I. Maybe I'm this guy. Maybe this is getting me attention. This is getting me, you know, replies. This is getting me followers. Okay?

B (8:27)

And.

A (8:27)

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B (10:08)

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B (10:45)

Yeah, I mean like, you probably feel this way too. Like I see in, in comedy, what have you like to make a funny joke that is like genuinely people think are. Is funny and insightful is a lot harder than to just like, you know, make fun of someone's physical appearance that people get cheap.

A (11:02)

You're nailing it. You're nailing it. That's the. And like, and listen, that's not to say you can't make fun of someone. I always say like when I do, like when I do the Bachelor live stream, I see people comment like, really? They try to like play along and I, and my, my line to them is like, let's try to be funnier than mean.

B (11:21)

Yeah.

A (11:21)

If you're funnier than mean, even the people you're making fun of go, oh, I get it.

B (11:25)

Because it's considering your joke about the, the guys wearing three polos, four polos is funny because everyone knows the D bag in school who would just wear pop collars all the time and, and just like making a joke about it, people laugh. It's insightful. It's like Chris Rock's comedy, right? Chris Rock, you laugh because you're like, holy shit. That's a great point in general. Right? It's not even you. Part of the reason why you laugh is because you realize it's such an insightful point that you can't help but laugh at the absurdity of it when it's characterized in that way. Similarly in politics, what I try to do on my podcast and things like that is just highlight why certain policies are bad. Let me give you an example. There's a big conversation about healthcare and Medicaid and people, People losing their health care. I think that is a incredibly important argument. But people don't explain why it's so serious. And so here's, here's the reality. They say, oh, people who don't work shouldn't get Medicaid. They shouldn't get benefits if you don't work. I understand that argument, but actually what happens in practice is that when you start putting up five or six different barriers to get Medicaid, people don't fill them out because they miss deadlines. They, they don't know they're not, they're not trained up. Like, it's like when you all of a sudden have to, like, register for something new or whatever, you get confused. And so in effect, what all it does is just people give up and they just don't sign up. And then they get sick. And at the end of the day, it actually costs the healthcare system more because people delay treatments, they do all this stuff, and at the end of the day, we all pay for it. So what we don't do enough in government is be thoughtful and explain that what they do instead is look at these boogeymen doing xyz, but don't make the case. And that hurts America, in my opinion. So, like, what I try to do and what I hope to do in Congress is to argue for the right things, in my opinion, but also explain why I care about it and not just use hyperbolic statements that no one understands.

A (13:10)

No, I'm, I'm with you. And it's funny. It's like there has to be an agreement amongst the politicians to, like, want to explain it because people don't want to listen. Like, they don't want the more thoughtful answer of, like, listen, it's going to cost us this if we help people. And it'll cost us even more if you don't know. Like, that description makes sense to me. I'm listening to description. I'm like, you know, the easier fast food route is, is. Is like these poor people are taking advantage. And that's like the one that like, scratches an itch for people. And, and if a politician takes advantage of that itch that people genuinely want easier than harder. Like, they genuinely want. Like, I don't want to have to do the Math here, you know, like, and it's like that person's now taking advantage of a very human thing, which is like, I just want to believe what I already believed. And like, it is so funny to me. I travel the country and I want to, I want to ask you this, but I wonder, I get asked about like, if I say I'm going somewhere, I'll. If I say I'm going to Portland, Oregon, the, the, the, the feedback I get about port. It's like all of a sudden I've entered into this shit talking like 10 minute, like, you know, bit this guy's doing on how bad Portland is. And then I always, I try to say, I go, listen, I like Portland, Oregon. I think it's beautiful. And I do understand kind of what you're saying, but like, it's not Helen Brimstone. And the minute I get to like, you know, being like, well, I've been there. It's not that bad. You're kind of seeing one area. They're like, you can see that they just don't want to talk to me anymore. They're just like, I am out. Just, just agree with me. Do you get that a lot where you're like, here I hear, right, like, you're like, I hear you, but. And then you just watch them fade from existence.

B (15:12)

They watch them fade from existence. And it is so frustrating because if you talk to mayors around the country, right, A couple of things. First and foremost, if you know your neighbor and you're. Someone lives close to you and you build a relationship with them, like, we all have neighbors who are different party affiliations, whatever. But if you know them and you've like, see them and trust them, it like, it's annoying that you disagree on that. But like, you don't either, you don't talk about or at the end of the day, you're like still human beings. Like, one of my parents best friends are Republicans. They just live next to us for 40 years. And you know, they, and they're completely different parties. They just don't talk about it. And they, they, they love each other like family. Right? It's so much easier when you're sitting behind a computer and you don't know the people and a lot of, you know, Twitter accounts are anonymous anyway, or bots to just like lob haymakers and like, not, not at all try to build a relationship. And that hurts our country. The other thing that I think Democrats fail at is we love citing statistics, but we don't show empathy or like actually relate to people in every day. I mean, this way, like when, when, when Trump first sent to the National Guard, to D.C. which I like, highly, highly disagree with. He, you know, people like, oh, well, crime is low in D.C. it's like, that is true. Statistically. That is true. Crime is down to its lowest level in something like 30 years. And that's important to point out, but it doesn't help someone who recently had, you know, a shooting happen in their neighborhood where their kids go to school, or all the way down to like a package stolen on their stoop. Right. And so to tell someone, hey, I know you had this experience, but actually, statistically you're safer. Like, that is not helpful. And so I think it's more of like, how do we reduce crime as much as possible? Like, how do we. The goal should always be zero. It's not going to get there, but that should be the goal. Right? And that's what's so important about how you talk to people, is like, for example. Let me just give you another example. Boston, you appreciate this, the way you measure, not to get too academic, but the way you measure homicides, typically in cities per 100,000 people. So if you look at like Jackson, Mississippi or some other others, they're in the like, 60s, 70s, ish, per 100,000. In Boston, it's 3.5. Okay. It's the lowest in the country of a major city by a significant margin or very close. New York is four. It's like, remarkable. And you actually look at like, what happened in Boston, because Boston used to have a much higher rate. It's because they basically took the neighbor model and they made it completely. They made it a citywide model. So they took churchgoers, the clergy, they took the law enforcement, they took neighbors, and they figured out, how do we engage as many people as possible to get to know each other as possible and to stop people from committing a crime. And so Boston wasn't always like that until they rolled that out. The exception that I have with the Trump administration is that they cut $180 million that would fund those kind of programs at work all across the country. Right. And so if you talk about it in that way, I think people make sense if you just yell at people and say you shouldn't feel unsafe because the numbers say that your eyes are lying.

A (18:02)

Right.

B (18:02)

That just doesn't help anybody.

A (18:04)

It, it's so interesting because it's all languaging. I mean, I always said it for the, for the party of. That has most of the creative and writers And Hollywood people, they are the worst at doing slogan. Like, it's like. Like, defund the police. I'm like, how could you think that that's, like, getting you where you need to go? Like. Like, you wouldn't write the movie that way. Why would you do the slogan that way? Like, I. It is always unbelievable to me, but I wanted to. So you're running for this position in Massachusetts. Will you live in D.C. will you live in Massachusetts? Do you go to D.C. and represent the people there? How does it work?

B (18:51)

Yeah, so I live here and in Andover. That's where I'm from, where I grew up and where I have my house.

A (18:56)

Listen, you go down I. An Andover. Were they the Rockets? I think they were the. What were the high school.

B (19:01)

That's ready. That's reading.

A (19:03)

Reading Rockets. Okay. That's reading. The same conference. Because I was Needham Rockets.

B (19:08)

Got it.

A (19:09)

And I know.

B (19:10)

But, yeah, it's. Yeah, it's usually. It depends on the schedule. You're down there three or four nights a week. You know, it's hard on families and. And. But, like, I think it's part of the job. Like, and one of the things that I think happens to people who get elected to federal positions is that they get down to D.C. they get up in the culture. There's all these, like, reasons and incentives. Like, let me give you an example. Like, you know, there's so many corporations that will give directly to, you know, candidates and stuff, like, to give it to members of Congress or, like, you know, try. And I saw this in Boston. We had, like, very strict ethics rules around this. You just get caught up in this, like, D.C. world, and people forget and don't take seriously how important the local stuff is. So they get lost in there. They never come back. I'm fortunate that I worked literally, for a mayor who was formerly a state rep, and I was a select board member. So I am programmed to. I mean, look, I love going to Little League games, and I love just, like, hanging out with people at the Dunkin Donuts. Like, to me, that is far more meaningful than some, like, stupid wine thing. And there's so much covering a rap, right?

A (20:10)

You're hovering around something that I'm like, I'm very curious about. Because what you're saying is, like. And again, the parallels to comedy are, like, very clear to me, where it's like, you're kind of speaking vaguely that, like, there's people that, like, are in it for another reason. Like, there's a. And get. And get taken over by that other stuff. And like, it's hard to understand because, like, I was gonna ask you before we started, I was like, oh, what's it like to come up at? Like, I know you're not where you want to be ultimately. I, I just know that just. Because I just know that I, I. And I, I know I'm not where I want to be. I know you're not where you want to be because I'm not where I want to be. I don't want to be at a high house in the Richmond Mall, West Richmond, dude.

B (20:57)

Those high end houses are kind of good, though. They get good breakfast.

A (20:59)

They're pretty good. They, well, they, they serve a purpose.

B (21:02)

But this scrambled eggs are pretty good. Don't hate on the scrambled eggs there.

A (21:06)

They had egg whites this morning. I couldn't believe it. I was like, in shock. So I'm. But I'm saying, like, it's not that I don't want to ever be here, but I appreciate the road that I'm taking, that I'm like, okay, I'm doing it the right way. I'm working on material in Richmond because I can go to D.C. next week and do a theater and I want bigger and better things and I'll be a better comedian because of doing Richmond. And I'll respect another comedian who, who does the Richmond funny bone in the same way, because that's what I had to go through. I'm kind of sensing that with politics, and I didn't really think of that. You probably look at some politicians, you're like, they did it the right. No matter what their outlook is, they do it the right way, they're doing it the way that I would do it. And then you might see people from different angles that you're like, they're not really doing it. Is that kind of a thing there? Is that kind of what you're doing?

B (21:59)

Yeah. And like, look, like I look, there's a million very ambitious personalities in the elected official world. I'll tell you, it's just as bad when you work in the White House as you can imagine. Like, right, like, let me, like, let me get, Let me give you, like, the stupidest example. But I'm. I didn't learn until I was in there. So you get to the White House, there's several tiers of prestige in your title. Okay. First you're just in the White House. Then there is commissioned officers. By the way, the correlation between what you do and these titles are not that linked, but they kind of are. So, like, the first here is you're a special assistant to the President. Okay, okay. Then. Then you're a. They call that SAP. That's SAP two. And then SAP one, you're still a special assistant, but you're paid a little more. So people are like, oh, is this person a SAP? Then if you get promoted, you're a deputy assistant to the President, which, by the way, doesn't sound as good as special assistant. People get all insecure about that. Then if you're like the Chief of Staff, you're the assistant to the President, so everyone's like, oh, my God. I'm like, you know, and it's just ridiculous. But it's a. It's a good analogy for, like, how D.C. works is like, everyone's always like, oh, my God, like, what committee assignment am I on? Like, no, oh, my God. But, like, do you think the average person in your district is a flying about that? Right? Don't. They. Don't. What they care about is that their passport isn't being processed on time, or you're busy hanging out, wondering about, like, what committee assignment. So, like, we need a reset. And, you know, this is not just about my candidacy. Like, we need more people who are, like, into local politics, who understand that you can't ignore phone call, that you have to text everyone back and you have to make sure, like, you know, the liquor license is approved on time. Like, that's what people care about. Right. They don't even know what's. They don't even know what's federal jurisdiction versus what state or city. Like, you just. They just got a problem, and you got to solve it. And so I think especially DC Electeds get away with saying this. It's not my problem because I'm. I'm. Look at me. I'm hanging on D.C. and, like, that's. That's just the complete opposite of who I am. And that's why I'm like, I care so much about wanting to go and change it, because I think you're more effective if you understand those values, you know?

A (24:01)

Right. It. It's so much like the Hunger Games that it's actually crazy. Like, like, when they go to that, like, where, you know, that one town where, like, you know, the big. Like, you know, the rich town, that's like the D.C. area.

B (24:16)

Here's another example. You' appreciate this suite of hung games. There's two people say they work in the White House. There's two big se. There's multiple segments of the whites, but there's the West Wing. Okay, which most people know when they've seen the show, whatever. And then there's the executive office building, which is a larger office building that's within the complex. You go through security once. That is like a big office building. Okay? It's beautiful, but it's a big office building. You get a badge. And if your badge is blue, it means that you can roll into the West Wing without an escort. But if you. If your badge is green, you can't go in without an escort. Which, as you can imagine, creates this, like, bullshit of people being like, oh, you have a green badge or like a. A blue badge, whatever. And so, like, whether you have an office in the West Wing becomes this, like, big hunger. People give up big offices in the executive office building. The office building. So they get a desk so they can say. So for me, I was like, okay, like, I was fortunate to get promoted when I was in the White House. I was like, I don't. Like, I'll give you the big office in the. Like, I can just walk. You know, it's not big deal, but people like, oh, my God, like, you didn't want a desk, like, to sit upstairs from the Oval Office. I'm like, no, because, like, that's just. But like, that's how it gets, right? And so people just get in their bubbles down there.

A (25:26)

It's so little. It's so small. It's so.

B (25:28)

It's all about look and no one care. That's not making anybody safer. That's not giving anybody better health care. And, and, And I think they don't. People may not know the intricacies of that, but that attitude is why people just look and just say this, right? Like, right. I'm not even. I'm not even going to show up at the town hall because I know no matter what I say, they're going to give me word salad answers. And I'm never, you know, Right. That is what I am trying to change. And that, I think, is like, what we need to be focused on. It's like, not only are you focused on the right stuff, but you have the right mindset and also, you know, how to communicate it in a way that people understand.

A (26:01)

Okay, I'm gonna read this. I asked you on because I got a text, an automated text, the text that we all are.

B (26:09)

Sorry, buddy. Sorry, buddy.

A (26:11)

No, I'm happy I got it because that's why you're here right now. And I was like, listen, I think I can help if you're in Massachusetts. Here's the text I'm gonna read it for the audience. I hate fundraising texts. It's always the same lame messaging and phony deadlines that make your reply stop as soon as possible. It's because Democrats in D.C. don't get it. They hold press conferences while Trump sends mass men to apprehend our neighbors, tramples our Constitution, and lines his own pockets while life gets more expensive for the rest of us. My name is Dan Koh, and I'm running for Congress in Massachusetts 6 to change that. I've seen government work at all levels. The White House, Boston City hall, and Andover Town Hall. I know how to deliver on day one, and I don't back down from a fight. Donate to our campaign today, and I'll show you how effective Democrats can be. Let's go, Dan. Text stop to quit. I love that ending. I was like, that's a very.

B (27:12)

You gotta get people an out. You gotta give people an out.

A (27:14)

Yeah, I give them an out. But also tech stop to quit. I don't quit nothing. Like, that's a. That's a, That's a. That's a psychology play. I love this, but it's, it kind of. It shows that you. I mean, to. That, to me, that text is an acknowledgment that we're not where we want to be, this is not the world we want to live in. But also, I'm not going to do it the same old way. Is that kind of what you're.

B (27:36)

Yeah.

A (27:36)

Promising.

B (27:38)

Absolutely. People, I, I, you know, I worked for just. People know. I was Marty Walsh's chief of staff in City hall Now, like, freaking 12 years ago, and I was deep in politics there, and I still didn't quite understand why politicians needed to get money. I didn't really understand how it all worked. But the reality is, like, if you say you have a message, if, like, you know, and like you and your work is you in the podcast, like, you could be the funniest person in the world, but if you can't afford a Riverside subscription to do this interview, if you can't afford a microphone so that you actually can speak into something, in the case of a, in the case of a campaign, if you don't have the money to print a mailer or to buy an ad on tv, it'll be very hard for you to get your message through. And so I didn't have an appreciation. I didn't have as much of an appreciation for the fact that these candidates have to do that. I just think the way so many people I'm Just trying to level with people. Like, you need to raise the money. It sucks. It's annoying to raise the money.

A (28:32)

I'm putting the link in the description of this episode on all the platforms we put it out. So the link is there if you want to support Dan's run, which, listen, I'm. I'm a huge fan of you. I'm just like, that's the thing. Like, I, I don't even know what you're running on. Like, I, like, I literally, I was like, I was like, I just like this guy. I, I, you know, like, I, I literally was like. And, and listen. But you. I've read your, I get your emails. I read them. I read, like, I give like a, you know, I read them more than any other email I get. Really. And I'm interested to hear your opinion because I also, like, you're a smart guy who's done. You've been in this world, and this world is crazy. Crazy. Like, it's like. And it gets so emotional. And like, I think, you know, Michelle Wolf, who I opened for for like a year, she used to always say, and she was on last week's episode, she would always say, the, the only people that see the whole country are politicians and comedians. And she's so right. Like, and like, when we see the world, I don't think, like, I really do believe. And this isn't me being hokey or me being, you know, naive, that we're like, so, like, the people are so close. Like, the things that, like, the disagreements are like, like the way people live, the way people lead their lives, like, they're not that far away from one another. Like, it's really, like, it's, it's more simple than it's presented to be, you.

B (29:52)

Know, and it's a shame. Like, right. Like, you, you don't need to know your craft anywhere near as well as you do. But, you know, when you're in the audience and you're laughing, like, I'm not looking to see who's like, maga on my right or left. Right. I just, I just want to laugh and escape. And that has been lost in politics. Like, there are very few people who unfortunately who go to, you know, political events or want to learn that that doesn't get, doesn't get divided very quickly. And I think, look, like there's a lot to learn about how government works. There's a lot to disagree about. But, like, my first, my first boss was Ted Kennedy, and as a mailroom intern for him and some of his best friends were, you know, Orrin Hatch or, or others who were John McCain who are Republicans, who he highly disagreed with. There's absolutely no reason why you can't highly disagree with someone and also just have a good relationship with them.

A (30:44)

What do you, what do you think of the feedback? Sorry to interrupt because what do you think of the feedback? That like those people being friends, like, that's them working against the people. Like, that's. I think that like the new argument, like, like, of like, oh yeah, they all were working together and it's like, I don't know, that's like very conspiratorial to me.

B (31:02)

Like, I think, I think it's, you know, I kind of. What I would like it to be. It's not always this way. And I don't think every actor who's Republican or Democrat is like this, but I, I kind of amounted to like you're, you're two sprinters on a track, right? And like, you know, that's a bad analogy because that's like a zero sum. And I don't think zero sum is the case in politics. But like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be very, I'm gonna fight for what I believe in. I am going to call you out if I think you're wrong. But just because I call you out does not mean that I should be attacking you personally. Right. Just because I highly disagree with you doesn't mean that I should make some statements about your family and stuff. And like, and that happens all the time on both sides of the aisle. Right, Right. And like, we need to, we need to stop that. And I think there's ways to do that. And you know, so, so I'm, I pride myself, you know, I go on cnn, I debate Scott Jennings and I went to Nashville and I debated Tommy Loren and we had like very, we've had a very. Like Tommy and I had an hour long debate and it was like very intense. There was. We talked about immigration, we talked about healthcare. What have you with Scott Jennings? Like, it's. Again, we've, we've probably debated now for 10 different episodes. Hour long, hour long times. But like, at the end of the day, like, that doesn't mean that I should just like storm off the set because he had a zinger that I didn't like. We get the fact that he worked for George W. Bush. I did not like George W. Bush, but there was a difference in my mind between George W. Bush and the way he proceeded and the way the culture that he set than what this president has. Right. There's just a vindictive streak to him and how he's proceeding to people he disagrees with that I just highly, highly object to. But that doesn't mean that I think that every moderate or every Republican is terrible. It especially does not mean that people who have opinions different than I in my street should be people I don't talk to. Like, how are we going to proceed as a country if that's how we proceed on our street?

A (32:54)

Right. I, I, we have an advice question based on what you're saying right now. So I'm going to read this question. But I have a, I have a question that we're going to play a game because I, I, it's not every day I got like, a future, you know, you know, president in front of me. I, what a what? That is my question first, before I get to the emailer. I think it's a good idea. I was like, what do I talk to Dan about? But I was like, I, I never, I, I feel like it's never gonna ask. Do you think it would help? And I do want to. And I'm gonna ask this quote to ask what people getting into politics, what their aspirations are. Like, yes. Because I think that's like, loss. Like, you're running for this position. So everyone thinks your aspiration is to be Massachusetts 6, you know, selectman, but that's not your aspiration. What do you, what do you want to be? What's the dream?

B (33:50)

Honestly, like, look, every person who gets into office, one of the funniest things that I hear politicians say is, like, I never thought I'd be a politician. It's like, come on. Like, if you, if, if you think, if you think you're going to put your name on a sign and, like, run an election and, like, raise money and, like, dedicate your, like, it is just, maybe there's some exceptions to that, but people love to be like, ah, shucks. It's like, no, I actually, genuinely believe, and I wouldn't be running if I didn't think so. That, like, given my experience at the federal level and the local level and given how I, I focus on, I think, the things that matter, that I would be a better member of Congress than someone else who was running. Anyone who doesn't feel that way is, shouldn't be running. Right. Like, it's like, at the end of the day, it's one person getting elected. So I think you level with people and you say, for me, it's like, I want to Take the mentality that, like every single request that I had in City hall, whether it be a pothole or whether it be a, you know, a piece of graffiti that needed to be cleaned, that I gave that attention to every single person and I would bring that to Congress, meaning whether it be a big health care bill. Yes, I care that people get health care, but I also care there's someone calls me up and says, hey, you rolled out this new thing and I don't even know where to go to get my form, that I'm going to call you back and I'm going to figure it out. And thankfully, because I worked as the deputy cabinet secretary, which means that you work with all the cabinets, I. I know exactly what department to go to to help you. Right. And so a, that's what drives me. Where that ends me up, I don't know. But that's, that's what drives me to do it. Because I genuinely know, if you use a baseball analogy, I genuinely know that a replacement player at that role would not be as good at that than I am. Which I don't mean to disrespect. I just, I understand how this works and I understand how to deliver for people.

A (35:24)

But like, right.

B (35:25)

Also, when you. What's so important about what you're doing right now is a lot of these politicians, especially the Democratic side, are so buttoned up that they're afraid to go on shows that are 33 minutes long or what have you because they have a certain set of talking points. And then the minute that doesn't happen, people get so scared that they're going to say something wrong and piss off somebody that they just like, hide, hide with like the two minute hit on, you know, a TV network which is just like, how can you ever learn about somebody what they stand for if you hear them for two minutes every three weeks?

A (35:54)

Well, that's why I think that's what cuts through the political noise is like, oh, I know that guy. Like, I think like, you know, just like the neighbors thing, like, oh, yeah, I'm not going to kill my neighbor. I know my neighbor. They're not as, you know, scary to me anymore. Okay, I. Here's the question from a listener because it's on the subject of, like, everyone's evil if they don't agree with me completely. Ready? Jared? I live in New York City, matched with a guy on Hinge. He didn't have his political preferences in his bio and I didn't think much of it as first, on one of our dates, he Mentioned that he's moderate. In my mind, moderate has always meant I'm conservative but live in New York City, and I'm too afraid to say it. I can't tell if he's actually moderate or just conservative. But I'm very liberal and my values definitely align with more progressive beliefs, and that's really important to me. I've also felt at times that someone who. I've also felt at times that someone who's very conservative might not respect my views or support me as a woman or feminist. I guess I'm stuck between thinking maybe he can still be a supportive partner even if we disagree and worrying that if he does hold conservative views, he probably doesn't really see women as equals. Deep down, do you think this is a deal breaker in a relationship? Do you have to align politically to date someone, especially in today's political climate, or can you agree to disagree? Daniel Ko, what do you think?

B (37:26)

Well, first of all, I didn't think I'd be doing. I know, I know, I know your show, so I knew I'd maybe have some dating advice. But look, yeah, I think I think of it this way. There are a lot of people who care deeply about social justice issues, who believe in equality between genders, who don't like high taxes and think that government sucks. And so, like, I don't think that a label of a party affiliation. And there are some bad people in the Democratic Party. Right. So I don't think that, like, party affiliation is the one bellwether. Having said that, you know, I think that there is a very fair case to be made that if you are somebody who doesn't believe in, you know, making sure that women have the health care access that they need or that, you know, that women have equal pay or, you know, that women should, you know, that when you have a baby, that there's, there's the parent. Like, in this day and age, like, just parenting is just really freaking hard, that, like, men have a clear role to play here and then also, like an equal role to play, I should say. And then finally that you can't be understanding about the challenges that women in the workplace have right now. And I'm not just saying from sexual harassment, but just like, you know, some, some companies, like, don't have maternity leave. Right. And. And they are, they're unabashed about it. And so, like, how, how do you, how as a woman, do you deal with that when, you know, one of the things I learned when, when I had two young kids from my wife, that I didn't experience firsthand is like, it's, it's such a physical burden on her after having a baby on top of the baby. And so look, I think we could talk very flung about this. I think it's where your values are and how you, how you view the partnership that you have and whether you view that partnership as equal and that you understand the challenges candidly that both sides of the partnership are going through. And I think that's really important. And that could be conservative or liberal and there's people who are taking the wrong tact on both sides.

A (39:27)

Yeah, I, I gotta say, like, it's funny. Like, I'm, I'm listening to you and I'm like, you're, you're exactly the, you're giving the examples that this person needs to get into. Like, vague. Saying I'm a moderate is like to me saying, I'm a Patriots fan. Like, okay, well, okay, so what do you think in 2001, where were you when you were watching, you know, the Patriots win, you know, their first soup super bowl? And they go, oh, I wasn't even. I just kind of became a fan. And you go, okay, well, now we've gotten specific. Like, I think the unfair thing to do is when you say I'm a moderate. This person went from, I'm a moderate, and they may not believe in my rights being as equal to theirs. I'm like, whoa. Like, if I was the person saying I'm a moderate, I'd be like, how did we get here? And again, I think bringing up the examples that you brought up, well, the minute you get specific and there's a respect in the conversation about these specific things, you start to learn about the person. So is it like, could it never work out? I don't know. I just think in this specific example, he said I'm a moderate and hasn't been asked any further questions. Like, you gotta ask for. I think you gotta get specific about the things you care about and, and.

B (40:47)

And, and also just actually walk the walk and not talk the talk. Like the thing that aim. Like, my wife is named Amy. I love her and she keeps me out of trouble most of the time. But what I struggle with is this time around, as I run for the next 11 months or whatever it is, we have two young kids, we have a five and a two year old, and there will be times, and she is general counsel of a company, there will be times where you can't do both. Somebody has to sacrifice, right? Somebody has to say, I can't do this meeting or I can't go to the town hall or I can't go to the debate or I can't meet with a donor or whatever it is. And that is zero sum. Sometimes parenting is you just like you can't balance. There's no such thing as work life balance in many cases. Right, right. And so in my mind, and I don't always do this well and if, if Amy were on with me, she would probably tell you this. Like you need to be willing to say if this is an equal partnership that like I'm going to do something that would be against my individual career self interest because we are an equal partner. And you have to go on a trip to, you know, she, her, her founder's based in San Francisco. Like if you're going to be gone for three days, I can't go out at night and go to the town hall where the other probably 10 people who will be in this race will be. And that will hurt my ability to be elected a member of Congress. But I need to be thoughtful enough and it's easy for me to say in a, in a vacuum now that like, that's just the reality of sacrifice. And that's not a Republican or Democratic thing, that's just a values thing.

A (42:13)

Right. Well, I mean to take it back to the email, like, can you have that conversation where you're make someone feel seen and heard on the thing that you're like, I'm on the other side on this one. And it might, and, and, but it might not even be that extreme. Like I think this person, especially considering this email, they've taken a label that someone's given themselves and they, I think most people put the label on just to make it more simple. Like they don't even know what topics you're really caring about. Like you got to get into those if, especially if you've been on a few dates, another day where you're trying to get to know them is like part of that, that's part of the, that's fourth date conversation. Hey, what do you, what do you think about health care? Like, you know, like I think you could get into that. I have another game I want to play. You ready?

B (43:02)

Let's do it.

A (43:03)

Okay, then we'll get out of here. Everyone go get involved with Daniel co. And the link is in the bio, this episode. We want everyone to go support Daniel, what he's doing and you know, check it out. And like I just. Your email is great. I gotta say. I read it and I'm Like, I feel more thoughtful about what's going on, not, not having, not even living in Massachusetts right now. So I want to play a game called King of the World.

B (43:32)

Okay, okay.

A (43:34)

I'm going to give you a subject. You're king of the world. You can say the one thing you'd do if you were king of the world. And I think a lot of people in politics, like, you know, if they could just be king of the world, maybe the job would be a lot easier, you know. Okay, ready? Trains. What would you do with trains if you're king of the world?

B (43:55)

Well, first and foremost, I think just making them on time. I understand that there's a million reasons why they're not, but I would rather have a slower train that I know is going to arrive at south station at 5:30 every single day than some like, bullet train. We love talking about, oh, well, Japan has this and we don't have that. I will tell you, realistically speaking, we need to think big, but like, there's a lot of poor communities that would have to like, move their houses to like redo the infrastructure. I'm not saying we shouldn't be ambitious, but like, we do have limitations we need to be aware of. But there's no reason why we shouldn't be thoughtful as possible about timeliness and predictability. That's what, by the way, that's what pisses me off about the tariffs is there is a very convincing argument to be made. There are industries in the United States, for example, like your semiconductor chips, that need to have tariff policies that protect American interests. Right? But if you're just like pulling out of your ass numbers, right, that and you make it up and you tweet about it, people can't predict in the markets like what you're going to do. And so people just start raising prices because they don't know how to correct for what might Trump say the next day. Right? And so like on the train example, I would just make them ultra predictable that I know that if I'm going to call my wife and say, okay, I'm getting on the train right now, I will be there at 5:45 and like, then I'll pick up the kids. I think that's what really pisses people off is when they're promised something and they clearly don't get it, right? Like that's what I think really pissed me off.

A (45:25)

I love that my train king of the world would be. I would go get the menu from the European trains and I would just bring it over to The US like.

B (45:36)

You know the other thing I would do? I would. I would make the bathroom sliding door not fly open when you're trying to close it.

A (45:42)

Okay. Forget mine. Yours wins. I have.

B (45:46)

Because that is always my biggest fear. You go in there, you're already. You're already be thrown around like a rag doll.

A (45:51)

But then, like, all it takes is to take one of those, like, hooks and a little like, like, it's literally like three items from Harvey's hardware and need them. Where it's like you, like, literally screw into the door. All I want is a hook lock. I. I don't want the button lock. I'm with you 1000%. I have been taking a shit on a train and had it slide open. And it's like the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to you in your entire. It happened to me. Okay.

B (46:21)

You ever. You ever look into a bathroom after as people are getting off a train at, like, South Station? Looks like a nuclear bomb went off in there because people can't balance themselves.

A (46:28)

It's like, there's nothing dirtier. There's nothing dirtier in the entire world. You're right. Okay, roads. What would you do?

B (46:40)

Oh, that's a good one.

A (46:42)

You're king of the world. You can do one thing for the roads.

B (46:46)

It is. So I'm, you know, I'm from New England, so I'm biased towards cold weather issues. And it's so expensive, which is the reason why they don't do it. But I would have, like, solar paneled roads that would melt the snow automatically when it got. When there was over a certain number of inches. Because what happens now? It does exist. And science, please. There's some countries that have done that in some isolation. The problem is cost. It's just too expensive. But you could, in theory do it in a way where like, literally, like, you know, five inches of snow falls down, you flip a switch, it heats up and it melts the snow. It's just too expensive to do. But if you think about how effective that could be if you were able to do it, like, that's pretty cool.

A (47:27)

What country does that?

B (47:29)

There's some European country that I saw. Again, there's no, there's no, like, extensive system. But, like, there are some areas where you'll see it.

A (47:37)

I love that. Mine was going to be to take away all fast express lanes because they take up one full lane just to divide the regular lane from the fast lane.

B (47:51)

Well, I would say. But this is another example of, like, you tell people what research says, and they don't believe it. The research says that if you. If you do that, then, like, people carpool more. But I think people just get very frustrated, inconvenienced really fast if you do that. Right. And by the way, the same way, like people complain about potholes and roads is another cost thing. Like, you could have better quality asphalt. And I'm. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a nerd about this because I dealt with in city hall for a while. It's just more expensive and it's just very hard to do. And if something breaks, like, there's kind of a standard. There's kind of a standard, like, relatively affordable from a city perspective. Like process to fill a pothole. You start putting more. Like, this is getting really wonky. But you start a specialty thing. It gets, like, very complicated very fast. Okay, the other thing. Wait, wait. There's one more thing about roads. Like, you also, like, some roads are some. Some of these streetlights can be programmed where, like, they actually see if there's anybody standing there before they switch the lights in the walk symbol. And so, like, you know, sometimes you're sitting there and like, there's a walk symbol and no one's around, and you're just standing there. Like, there's ways to avoid that if you have, like, smart systems and stuff like that. As a matter of fact, there's a last. There's a last nerdy thing. Listen to this.

A (49:01)

So please, I'm.

B (49:03)

This is.

A (49:03)

This is interesting.

B (49:04)

In 2014, we had a very early version of using WAZE data that people use to, like, do GPS tracking to feed directly into the street lights so that if, like, we knew it was pre rush hour, you would hold the green light longer when people were trying to get onto the tunnel and i93 self. Right? And so, like, there's a way to do that, like on steroids, you know?

A (49:28)

So this is my. This is my dad's, like, wet dream. Like, he's been talking about the lights not being timed right my whole life.

B (49:41)

Yes.

A (49:41)

It's like, there's a way. Our.

B (49:43)

Our tests on this had reduced traffic by 15 to 20% just by doing the lights better. I think everyone's been.

A (49:50)

Wait till my dad finds out about. How much does that cost? I mean, is that. Is it so cost prohibitive? That's why.

B (49:56)

No, it's actually relatively affordable. But when you. To get it really good, you. There's like some technology. Like, everyone sat at a light and there's like, no other person going on the other side and you're sitting in a red and it's like, why is this light not green? You can be smarter about it.

A (50:10)

That's I, that seems like it's from the year 3000 and I'm like, like it's like from the year 3020. And I'm like, it can happen tomorrow. Okay, we'll do one more. I was going to say debates. What would you do change about debates?

B (50:28)

That's a good one. Look, I, I again everyone is very eager for like the mic drop moment so that you put the 42nd thing on social media. Yeah. Sometimes there's like a fair thing and fair argument to do on that. But like again the harder thing to do is a mic drop moment where there is substantive explanations of why whatever someone is saying is wrong. I think there's too much of like, well you're, you know, you're xyz. You label someone something like my, my proudest moments when I'm debating someone like Scott Jennings because he's actually quite a good debater is to be like, okay, you say you care about health care but like you know, 30% of kids or something like that in Kentucky, I'm ballpark is on Medicaid. And that means that this many kids might not get health care anymore. Right. Like to me that is far more interesting but more challenging to do than to just be like, you don't care about health care. Right. Like that could be a mic drop moment. Right. Oh, look at this guy. He didn't care at all about kids being healthy. But like I genuinely believe, and maybe this gets me into trouble, I genuinely believe Scott Jennings wants his kids to have good health care. Right. So you know, there's some people who say, no, he doesn't. He's a horrible person. Well, like that's, I think most people wouldn't buy that. And so I would, I would, I would try to figure out a way to like force or incent people to actually make data and fact based arguments versus just like what they consider to be red meat they can put online before you even leave the podium and be like, oh God, you know.

A (51:49)

Right. I, I would do a different subject every night of the week, have debate week and have it judged by, by regular everyday gyms and Joes.

B (52:00)

I love it. I love it. That's a good idea.

A (52:04)

That's a. Okay, so, okay, last one. Internet. What would you change about the Internet?

B (52:11)

It's like stunning to me and this is actually happening right now with Riverside. So I apologize. This is happening that like, in this day and age, like, there's still like slow to load stuff, like story in my life. I feel like we got to a point and by the way, I have something more to say about this. Like in, in a, in a, in in a place where there is broadband, we got to a point where like, it was so much better than the dial up. But then we like, never got better. Right? Like, right. It's still, it's still like, like we got like in, in the over, like 20 years ago. We went from like 56k mode. It used to be like 14k and then 56k and then it just kind of like there was cables. Oh my God. Cable modem. But then, like, it never got better. Like, it's still bad. Like, you're blurry to me right now. I know it's recording locally.

A (52:51)

It's my fault. Like, I, I think it's the hotel intern.

B (52:54)

A certain point, it would continue that way. It's like people who hate the fact that like Madden, the, the PlayStation or Xbox game like, still acts like it was and like the graphics are still the same that they were 10 years ago. Like, at some point we like, stopped progressing as a society when it comes to that stuff. Now the interesting thing is, like, I didn't fully appreciate until I got to the Biden administration and the hundreds of billions they invested. This. Like, there's still a lot of people around this country don't even have, you know, broadband Internet. They have cable and dial up. And there was never an investment to even give them that. And so I want to be thoughtful about what I say when it comes to that. But regardless, like, we got to a certain point of technology and it seems like it's just kind of like stopped. And you think the pace we were going, you would have asked me, like, oh, man, like, we went from 14k to cable modem in like five to seven years. And like, you would think that now would be like, seamless, but it's not.

A (53:40)

Right? And honestly, like, I don't even know how much better it could be. So it's like, you don't know. You know, like, I, to me, I'm like, this is great. We can do a podcast while I'm in Richmond and you're in Massachusetts. It's like, this is like the best thing ever. But then when it, like stalls out, I'm like, I guess I'll deal with it.

B (53:57)

You know, we just gotta deal with it. You think with cell service 10, 15 years ago, you're like, oh my God. I have a cell phone I can put in my pocket. Okay. I can drop calls. But like, it still happens all the time. Like in a place where you have full bars, all of a sudden the next day you're camping a call, right? It's like, you think it would get better, 5G? Yeah, it's faster. But like, I still think I still have same cell service problems that I had 10 years ago.

A (54:18)

You know, I wouldn't let anyone below the age of 18 on the Internet. I would say that's my change. I would go. The fact that you could be arguing in a comment section with a 15 year old is crazy and not know it is crazy. Like that's what a 15 year old is built to do to like anger adults. Like, if I was 15, I'd just be in the comments section being like, just throwing haymakers and they have no idea. I'm like, oh, can you believe they don't know they're talking to. I'm a kid, I'm just fucking with adults. Like, you know, that's.

B (54:52)

It's interesting that you say that, things like that. I want to give a shout out to Jake Alkin Kloss, who is a member of Congress in Massachusetts. He's been one of the leaders of legislation to remove smartphones from kids in schools. Right. Like, and he's doing this in a thoughtful way and what struck me and like, you know, as I have little kids, I appreciate this further, like, there are kids who are pretty young who have like full blown smartphones, right. And like you, like, who, like a lot of parents are just trusting the tech companies to like not serve them bad content. It's like, can you imagine if you and I grew up with like, you know, the kind of that's on the Internet these days? And we were five and we had full access to a phone, like, holy, you know, so like, I think, you know, there's like civil liberty stuff. But like, I think everyone can agree that like a 7 year old should not have access to full blown Internet and a smartphone. But like, no, they're right. There are schools that allow that and people are sitting in class like on, you know, playing Candy Crush and then like going on YouTube on adult, like unfiltered. That's like a huge challenge for parents. And so like, we need to take these things seriously. And like, while we're busy talking about all this stuff and yelling at each other, like, our kids are getting exposed to stuff that like parents should have a say in. And I didn't quite appreciate that as much until I started having kids and I kind of saw it firsthand.

A (56:11)

Daniel Co thank you for coming on. My my light just ran out of battery. This has been so interesting. I'm so happy you came on. The link is in the bio. This episode where you can give to Daniel's campaign and what he's doing in Massachusetts. I'm Jared Freed. Every Wednesday, Chit chat Wednesday, back next week, boom.