Glenn Jones (1:44)

State police officer designated as quote, the case officer. That would be Trooper Michael Proctor.

Narrator/Announcer (1:50)

And a closer look at the psyche of someone who dismembers a loved one. Don't miss our conversation with the woman who helped the FBI develop serial killer profiling as we know it. Today, Commonwealth Confidential. The Brian Walsh murder trial starts now.

Glenn Jones (2:11)

Just a half day of court, but plenty discussed. Good evening everyone. I'm Glenn Jones. JC Monahan is off tonight. Today we had we heard from the medical examiner's office for the first time. There is no body in this case so the testimony will focus on other evidence. NBC10's Robert Gulston has been in court all week. He has more on what we expect to learn from the ME.

Narrator/Announcer (2:33)

Prosecutors introduced this photo showing Anna Walsh working out on a rug inside the Walsh's Cohasset home. They say pieces of this carpet were located during the murder investigation with some stains on them. A medical examiner tested the carpet pieces and other evidence found in a dumpster near Brian Walsh's mother's apartment apartment complex.

Glenn Jones (2:53)

Normally, we're not involved in examining items, just bodies of people.

Glenn Jones (3:01)

In this case, the objective was to determine whether there was any human tissue on these items.

Narrator/Announcer (3:08)

Prosecutors also introduced the physical items they say Walsh used during the crime, including.

Brian Walsh (3:14)

It's a hacksaw.

Narrator/Announcer (3:15)

Earlier in the day, the state trooper who analyzed Walsh's cell phone said Walsh sent texts to his wife's phone after she was dead.

Glenn Jones (3:22)

Hello? Where are you? Please call. Text, email. Exhausting day with the boys. And we had fun. Going to bed early. Big day tomorrow for everyone. I still love you. Hahaha.

Narrator/Announcer (3:32)

Prosecutors say more than a half a dozen messages.

Glenn Jones (3:35)

Where are you?

Narrator/Announcer (3:36)

Were sent after Walsh murdered Ana.

Glenn Jones (3:38)

I will call after I drop the boys. If I don't hear from you this morning, I'm going to report you missing.

Narrator/Announcer (3:43)

The defense made the point. There was no clear evidence that Walsh suddenly learned of the affair and killed his wife.

Glenn Jones (3:48)

It would be pretty important, wouldn't it? If in fact, you found messaging that was between Anna Walsh and William Fasto on a phone assigned to Brian Walsh. That'd be pretty important stuff, wouldn't it? Yes.

Narrator/Announcer (4:04)

And of course, Brian Walsh later admitted that he lied to investigators and his wife was never missing. The judge did give a new timeline. She says they'll probably need at least two more weeks to hear both sides of the case. In dedham. Robert Coulston, NBC10 Boston.

Glenn Jones (4:18)

Let's get straight to our panel. Retired State Trooper Todd McGee, defense attorney Margietta Derisier, and courtroom insider Sue O'. Connell. All right, today was a half day, as we mentioned, but we heard from several witnesses. The first were state Trooper Connor Keefe. He returned to the stand after spending most of the afternoon there yesterday. His testimony today focused on text messages between the Walshes and Bryan's phone Internet search history. You may recognize Trooper Keefe from the Karen Reed investigation. The exchange between Walsh's lawyers and Keefe was a little tense at times during cross marking. Tense in the temperature of this trial as opposed to some of the other trials that we have seen. So the defense obviously wants to undermine the state police investigation. Morgieta. They were really going after Keefe for not properly digging into the context of these searches. Did they poke any holes?

Margietta Derisier (5:13)

I don't think they poked as many holes as us, who are now experts in trial watching were expecting because to believe it or not, the way that they handled this investigation is night and day between this case and the Reid case. I mean, they even took photographs of the building before they went inside the building, which is completely different than what we're expecting. So even if it made a little dent, I don't think the impact is what we're looking for.

Glenn Jones (5:36)

All right, let's go deeper on that because it's no secret that the Massachusetts State Police have come under fire recently for the way that they handled the Karen Reed investigation, which was led by former state trooper Michael Proctor. Turns out Proctor was involved in the Walsh case too, and he was name dropped today.

Glenn Jones (5:54)

Who was the Mass. State police officer designated as, quote, the case officer in the investigation of this case on or around January 8th of 2023? That would be Trooper Michael Proctor. This was the first time Proctor was mentioned so far in this trial. Not much was said about him after that moment. But that's very different from how often he came up during the Reid trials.

Narrator/Announcer (6:21)

And Michael Proctor as the lead investigator was the one to write the report, correct? Michael Proctor wrote that report. Whose case is it or who has that case? Your answer would have been Michael Proctor, correct?

Glenn Jones (6:33)

Yes.

Narrator/Announcer (6:33)

Do you think this case case was.

Brian Walsh (6:35)

Handled with honor and integrity by Michael Proctor?

Glenn Jones (6:40)

Sergeant, the investigation was handled with integrity by Michael Proctor in both murder cases, Reed and Walsh's. Proctor was the case officer for the Norfolk County DA's office on Cross in the Reid case. Your Buchanak was very hesitant to say Proctor oversaw the investigation. But here Keefe had no problem saying that. So Todd, same person, same role in the investigation, same Norfolk County District Attorney's office, but different characterizations of what Michael Proctor's role was. What do you make of it?

Todd McGee (7:12)

Well, it's no secret that Michael Proctor was heavily involved in these investigations and others. And it still remains to be seen Michael Proctor's potential misconduct, if any. So right now what we've seen early on in this trial is that the investigation by law enforcement has done by the numbers, They've crossed their T's, they've dotted their I's. In fact, we even got a chance to listen to an interview between Walsh and the investigators to hear Walsh's Brian Walsh's state of mind. So I think right now, if anything, Michael Proctor may be a distraction, but I don't see where the prosecution has been derailed in any way.

Glenn Jones (7:49)

Okay, Sue, I remember you saying on the days long testimony from Yuri Buchanak that he was evasive and not Direct in answering questions. Was Keefe the opposite of that?

Sue O'Connell (8:00)

Yeah, absolutely. But again, they're not being accused of anything. Right. They're not trying to protect themselves or protect the investigation. Remember, Brian Walsh has admitted to dismembering and cutting up his wife's body. So a lot of this evidence that's being presented just basically affirms what he said, so it's not really in dispute. And again, to both of their points, this investigation is totally different than the way they handled the Karen Reid investigation. So there's not very much there. I mean, I remember on one of the earlier days, they asked one of the tech people what kind of paper they put, the materials they put down, you know, and it's the block paper. And that was all they really had. Like, we're not going to insinuate that that was contaminated or that had been in a truck somewhere or dog had eaten it. So. So it's just a very different case because they did a better job.

Glenn Jones (8:51)

Well, we've talked a lot about the possibility of Brian Walsh being called to testify, but what about Proctor? He's on the list for the defense. Morgietta. If the Commonwealth believes the defense has something damning on Proctor, should they call him instead?

Margietta Derisier (9:05)

I think they have to, because, let's be honest, a lot of the information that's been presented so far is really not helping Brian Walsh. Right. And as a defense attorney, your job is to create reasonable doubt whenever and wherever that you can. So a lot of the information with Proctor is already tainted. You know, I believe he's on several lists, and, you know, he's ahead of time. You just have to be careful with some of his work. So if there's an opportunity to fit in that reasonable doubt, it would be with that testimony.

Glenn Jones (9:32)

You know, I got to thinking today, Todd, about text messages, because I remember in the Karen Reid trial, Brian Higgins was very tailored in what he handed over to investigators. In this case, it seems like everybody's text messages are there to be examined in any way that they choose. I suppose that's another way where the investigation for the Reid case was so curious, when this seems to be more textbook.

Todd McGee (9:56)

Well, when we look at the Reid case, there were so many areas where the. The essential evidence that was presented was. Was tainted or omitted or tampered with to some degree. Video surveillance. Now we're wondering where snippets of video.

Glenn Jones (10:12)

You know, invited questions.

Todd McGee (10:14)

Everything invited questions. Where, again, to this. This particular trial, everything is methodical, everything's laid out for defense or the prosecution to be able to examine and under scrutiny.

Sue O'Connell (10:24)

And we also had a case, the manager, the apartment manager, where she said, you know, there's the video, the timestamp is incorrect, it's 20 minutes off. I don't know why it happens. It happens sometimes. But that also wasn't key to exactly placing him at a certain point, at a certain time versus someone else being there. So, you know, things happen, mistakes happen, technology fails us. But again, if you have a solid case, you don't really need to worry about a timestamping.

Glenn Jones (10:50)

It's a really good point because that moment did not feel suspicious in any way. Here's just a woman explaining it and then you're like, okay, all right, so when we actually think about these two cases so far in the Commonwealth's execution of its case, what are you thinking about their performance thus far? Magieta?

Margietta Derisier (11:08)

So just remember, any case that you present in front of the jury has to be a story like case. Right? You want the jury to be easy to follow the information that's being laid out for them, and that's what's being happened here. You can tell what night it happened, what happened right after it, what happened before it, and it's easy to follow. So you have to give some credit to the prosecution and its team as they're laying out the facts right now, because you can follow it and it makes sense.

Glenn Jones (11:33)

But hang on. So the defense comes in and says, actually, we agree with your narrative, but here's the part you left out. She died suddenly. Is that enough to disrupt the story that the Commonwealth wants to tell?

Margietta Derisier (11:43)

I think we have to remember that at the end of the day, the jury has to determine the elements of the crime put before them that is charged against Brian Walsh. Right. And so we're talking about first degree murder. We've talked about it before. It's the highest element, set of elements that the jury is going to have to consider. So there is this intent element. And even if they conceded to some of the points that the prosecution has put forward, we haven't gone to that intent element and we may not. There's no body, there's no medical experts that's going to be able to.

Sue O'Connell (12:13)

There's no evidence. There was no evidence or he knew about the affair.

Margietta Derisier (12:16)

So there's still some room that the defense can play with even if they have conceded thus far or appearing to concede thus far with the prosecution.

Glenn Jones (12:24)

All right, you've been in the courtroom a couple of times this week. How's the jury doing?

Sue O'Connell (12:27)

They're doing Great. They're an older jury than the first jury in the Karen Reed cases.

Glenn Jones (12:33)

Older, average age.

Sue O'Connell (12:34)

Average, average age. They're more diverse. I know a number of them are. We got to hear the voir d' or during the jury selection. So I know a number of them are professionals and have, you know, white collar jobs or higher. And they're paying attention. You got a lot of note takers coming. And again, the pace of this is much quicker. So when you have five or six witnesses in a day, you know, it's, they're able to be engaged and follow. Now, we're also not seeing the show of things. We're not seeing evidence being held up and shown around. They also have screens in their jury box.

Glenn Jones (13:07)

That's a big difference right there.

Sue O'Connell (13:09)

They don't have to look across. They're just like, they're doing homework and they're studying. So they're attentive and paying attention and engaged.

Glenn Jones (13:16)

All right, sue more g at it. Don't go anywhere. We still need you. Don't go anywhere as well. There's a lot more in this conversation coming up after the break in just a few minutes. My Talk yesterday with Dr. Ann Burgess, the woman who helped the FBI develop serial killer profiling as we know it today, what she has to say about Walsh potentially taking the stand. That's next. And as we go to break, we're taking a moment to remember Anna Walsh. She grew up in Serbia, later immigrated to the United States. She ended up settling in Cohasset with her husband. She became a successful businesswoman who was co parenting three young sons at the time of her disappearance. She was just 39 years old. You're watching Commonwealth Confidential, the Brian Walsh murder. Trot.

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Glenn Jones (15:34)

Brian Walsh's admission that he disposed of his wife's remains has sparked a lot of questions. Many are wondering who could do such a thing. So this week to better understand, we talked to one of the nation's leading experts in the field of forensics and psychiatry. Take a look. Dr. Ann Burgess is a professor at Boston College as well as an internationally recognized forensic and psychiatric nurse. She was the subject of the 2024 Hulu docuseries to Think like a Killer. The docuseries focused on her role with the FBI. The mother of four from Newton helped develop serial killer profiling as we know it today. Dr. Burgess, welcome to Commonwealth Confidential.

Brian Walsh (16:16)

Yes, thank you very much for inviting me. Sure.

Glenn Jones (16:18)

As you know, we're focused on the Brian Walsh case. This defendant admits to dismembering his wife and lying to police about it, but says he didn't kill her with those sat of facts. What stands out to you about this case?

Brian Walsh (16:31)

Well, what stands out is I always try to compare how much this is similar to what we ordinarily see. We start with the victim. And so who do we have as a victim? Is it a very popular young woman with three children, married, working career? All those kinds of things are very, very interesting, I think, to people and who did it and why so that you get into all of those kinds of questions. But I think. I think also what is very important is there's no body. And those are unusual types of cases in the murder case because you usually have the body that you can get forensics from and so forth. So I think a lot of very interesting, atypical and typical aspects to this case.

Glenn Jones (17:19)

One thing just occurred to me in this case, Brian Walsh may testify in his own defense. If that happens, what do you expect to see? How do you expect him to present?

Brian Walsh (17:31)

Well, I expect him to present much as his character. What we alluded to a little earlier that this is something that he has done before in terms of not telling the truth and being kind of cool and evasive about it. So where he has come up with an explanation, which, which evidently we heard from the his defense attorney. How well he's going to be able to keep that up will be interesting. And he certainly thinks he's going to be able to get away with it, or he probably wouldn't have taken the stand because there's a lot of history to this man in terms of other antisocial behaviors.

Glenn Jones (18:10)

You have, of course, professor, served as an expert witness in many cases, including the Menendez brothers in if you took the stand in the Walsh trial, what would you want to tell the jurors about this defendant?

Brian Walsh (18:22)

I'd want to tell the jurors about the victim. I want them to understand the victim and why she was a victim. That's where a lot of people or law enforcement doesn't necessarily go. But it would be helpful for the jury to hear about as much as is known as her last moments. I think you can put that together because the timeline has been published in the paper. That's been important to see. And I think that that would give help the jury be able to not focus their sympathy, if you will. He's going to try to go for that. Also, I think that he presented himself very differently to Ana than he did to other people. And so that I would watch for if he takes the stand of how he tries to.

Brian Walsh (19:16)

How he tries to come across to people, especially in a jury where his life is depending on it.

Glenn Jones (19:22)

Right. In this case, we have a defendant who has been convicted of art fraud is confessing to having lied to investigators in this case and the disappearance of his wife. If he takes the stand, doesn't he instantly have a credibility problem?

Brian Walsh (19:38)

You would think so. I would certainly think so. A lot is going to depend upon how much comes out and how he tries to spin that. He's definitely, if he does take the stand, he is going to definitely have to do that. Not sure that he will. It may just be kind of a teaser to keep people watching, I don't know. But if he does, that's going to be really, really interesting.

Glenn Jones (20:01)

Ann Burgess, professor at Boston College and a woman we owe so much to in helping us understand the profile of a criminal. It's so great to have you here on Commonwealth Confidential.

Brian Walsh (20:13)

Thank you very much, Glenn.

Glenn Jones (20:15)

All right, we're back now for further discussion with Todd Morgietta and Sue. Todd, you had a lengthy law enforcement career. I'm sure talked to many suspects over that time. What do you make of those audio recordings of the police investigation with Walsh where he seemed to so calmly lie to investigators after he disposed of his wife's body?

Todd McGee (20:38)

Experiences that I've had. And it played itself out in this. In this interview with the original detectives. In trying to play the calm, cool, collected role so that I draw suspicion on myself, they're missing out on the natural emotion of urgency. My wife is unresponsive, the common sense response of calling 911. Let me get some EMTs here on property to try and help my wife's situation. So just the common sense of things. And that defense that they're choosing is a weak one, in my personal opinion.

Glenn Jones (21:17)

Sue, you told me at one point that when you were listening to that audio, it kind of gave you chills a little bit. Why?

Sue O'Connell (21:22)

Well, because if I didn't know anything at all about the case, and I just heard that except for the lack of urgency, of being worried that his. His wife was missing and he didn't know where she was, you know, to have gone through such. Such a gruesome thing to. To cut your human body, your wife's body up and dispose. Which is no easy thing to do.

Glenn Jones (21:45)

Dr. Berger said the same.

Sue O'Connell (21:46)

And then to sit there, contact calmly, and not be traumatic, you know, even if you chose to do it, one would imagine you would be traumatized by it. The fact that he, if he was traumatized, it's so buried that we're not seeing it. But if he wasn't traumatized, that he could just sit there with his kids running around, and I just. It's just beyond, beyond for me. I can't. I can't imagine.

Glenn Jones (22:07)

Let me just ask a quick yes or no question of the three of you, and then I have a follow up for Morgietta. Do you think it is likely that Brian Walsh takes the stand in this case? Todd?

Todd McGee (22:17)

Yes.

Margietta Derisier (22:18)

No.

Sue O'Connell (22:18)

Yes.

Todd McGee (22:19)

Hmm.

Glenn Jones (22:20)

Morgietta, I imagine you've had a defendant who wanted to take the stand and you had to talk them out of it. What do you say?

Margietta Derisier (22:29)

So just in terms of looking the role of the attorney and the role of the client, you obviously have to have a strategic component as to whether or not your client takes the stand. Now, the issue we have in this case is that in the opening statement the defense attorney has already said that he had nothing to do with the murder of his wife. So you have to be very careful in putting that person on the stand because on cross examination you can't go outside of that theory.

Glenn Jones (22:54)

A lot of bear traps.

Margietta Derisier (22:55)

Yeah. You've already made the representation that he had nothing to do with it. So if he does take the stand, the Pandora box is going to open and he's going to be in the second half of the case. So do you really want the jury to again hear, didn't you do this? Didn't you lie to the police? I mean, it's pretty damning now to hear it, but in a couple weeks to hear it again, it would not be my choice.

Glenn Jones (23:18)

Very interesting. Borgieresu Todd, thank you very much for joining us tonight. And thank you as well for tuning in. We'll be back next week when the trial resumes. Be sure to stay with us for continuing coverage of the trial. We have gavel to gavel coverage on our sister station NECN. You can also watch the trial on NBC 10, Boston's YouTube channel. And if you have questions about the case we want to hear from you, just send them to commonwealth.confidentialbcuni.com and be sure to catch the NBC 10 award winning podcast, the searches for Anna Walsh. You can find it on our website or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Glenn Jones. You're watching Commonwealth Confidential. The Brian Walsh murder Trial.

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