How long will a Karen Read verdict take? Plus verdict slip changes and ASL

Summary

The Karen Read Murder Trial: Canton Confidential Episode: How long will a Karen Read verdict take? Plus verdict slip changes and ASL
Release Date: June 17, 2025
Host: NBC10 Boston

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Introduction

In this episode of Canton Confidential, NBC10 Boston provides an in-depth analysis of the ongoing Karen Read murder trial. The focus is on the current state of jury deliberations, recent legal maneuvers regarding the verdict slip, and the surrounding atmosphere both inside and outside the courtroom.

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Verdict Slip Changes

Melody Mendez introduces the day's major development:

[02:53] Melody Mendez: "The defense filed a motion to change those verdict slips we've heard so much about from the very beginning of this trial... they want those verdict forms to be simplified in their words."

The defense proposed altering the verdict slips to allow jurors to mark both "Guilty" and "Not Guilty" next to each lesser included charge. However, the judge swiftly denied this motion, maintaining the existing format.

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Expert Analysis on Verdict Slip

Alan Jackson, Karen Reed's defense attorney, explains the rationale behind the proposed changes:

[06:11] Alan Jackson: "They were giving the jury an out... convict her of a DUI offense, which carries with it generally a relatively minor penalty, especially compared to all the other major charges."

Margaret MacLean, a former prosecutor, comments on the defense's strategy:

[07:03] Margaret MacLean: "I was a little surprised, but I think it was brilliant on part of the defense... it's a huge win for the defense."

Melody Mendez further elaborates with insights from Michael Coyne, NBC10's Chief Legal Analyst:

[04:18] Melody Mendez: "The judge likely ruled this way because the prior form has already been approved by the state's highest court... it can't be overturned on appeal because it's consistent with Massachusetts state law."

The consensus among experts is that altering the verdict slip at this stage is unlikely due to legal precedents and the necessity of maintaining consistency with state laws.

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Potential Sentencing for DUI Conviction

The discussion shifts to the implications of a potential DUI verdict:

[10:13] Sue O'Connell: "If Karen Reid is convicted of only drinking and driving, wouldn't it be fair to charge everybody else who was drinking and driving that night with all the video evidence that we've gotten?"

Margaret MacLean provides clarity on standard sentencing:

[10:52] Margaret MacLean: "The standard DUI offense generally results in probation and participation in an alcohol program, rather than jail time, especially for first-time offenders."

However, Alan Jackson points out the unique factors in this case:

[11:33] Alan Jackson: "The extrapolation indicates the breathalyzer would have been significantly higher... the judge could sentence her beyond just how you would sentence the traditional first-time DUI offender."

The potential for a heightened sentence exists, but it largely depends on the judge's discretion and the specifics of the case.

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Jury Deliberation Timeline

A significant portion of the episode examines how long jury deliberations might take and what that duration could signify:

Melody Mendez assesses historical data:

[16:17] Melody Mendez: "History has shown us that the length of time those jurors are in that room deliberating means pretty much nothing as to what the verdict that they hand down will be."

Various high-profile cases are cited to illustrate the unpredictability of deliberation times, ranging from as short as 30 minutes to over 35 hours. Michael Coyne adds:

[16:17] Michael Coyne: "The longer the jury is in that room deliberating, the higher the likelihood goes for a hung jury for a misconduct trial."

There's a possibility of a hung jury if deliberations extend beyond expected timelines, especially with the upcoming Juneteenth holiday providing a day off that could delay verdict announcements.

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Crowd Behavior Outside the Courthouse

The episode also highlights the shift in public demonstrations:

Karen Reed discusses the behavior of her supporters:

[20:49] Karen Reed: "You can show your support, you can show the sign language of love. And Alan Jackson is not missing a beat trying to corral this crowd."

Unlike the previous trial, the current supporters are maintaining a disciplined and silent stance, using gestures like the sign language for love to express solidarity without disrupting the court proceedings.

Alan Jackson emphasizes the importance of this approach:

[23:29] Alan Jackson: "He also wants to make sure that the court orders are complied with, that the people outside are not interfering with the jury's deliberations and you don't want them affecting the jury's deliberations adversely."

The disciplined behavior aims to respect court rules while still visibly supporting Karen Reed.

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Final Reactions and Developments

As deliberations continue, Melody Mendez and Michael Coyne explore the possibilities of the jury reaching a verdict or facing a deadlock:

[08:18] Alan Jackson: "The problem isn't the same as last year. Last year, the jury was confused as to whether they could return a verdict on any of the counts unless they were unanimous on them all."

The legal team remains hopeful that the jury will reach a unanimous decision without extending the deliberation period excessively. Meanwhile, the public continues to watch closely, awaiting justice for Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe.

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Conclusion

This episode of Canton Confidential meticulously dissects the complexities of the Karen Read murder trial, shedding light on legal strategies, jury behaviors, and public sentiment. As the trial approaches its climax, NBC10 Boston remains committed to providing comprehensive coverage and expert analysis to keep the community informed.

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Notable Quotes:

• Melody Mendez [02:53]: "They want those verdict forms to be simplified in their words."
• Alan Jackson [06:11]: "Convict her of a DUI offense, which carries with it generally a relatively minor penalty..."
• Margaret MacLean [07:03]: "I think it was brilliant on part of the defense."
• Michael Coyne [16:17]: "The longer the jury is in that room deliberating, the higher the likelihood goes for a hung jury."

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Stay Updated: For continuous coverage of the Karen Read murder trial, tune in to Canton Confidential weeknights at 7 on NBC10 Boston and follow the latest updates on Peacock starting Sunday.

Transcript

[Scott Aukerman]

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[Glenn Jones]

NBC 10 Boston news worthy of you. Tonight, 12 jurors, three big decisions.

[Margaret MacLean]

We're going to send you back out to deliberate.

[Glenn Jones]

We're on verdict watch as deliberations continue in Dedham.

[Michael Coyne]

Plus, we just wanted to avoid that again and apparently the court is not concerned.

[Glenn Jones]

Karen Reed reacts after a defense motion is denied, what her team proposed to the judge and how it could have impacted the jury. And as the world awaits for a verdict, the question on everyone's mind how long will this take? We compare jury deliberations in other high profile murder cases. Canton Confidential the Karen Reed murder trial starts right now.

[Sue O'Connell]

The first full day of deliberations in the Karen Reed murder trial officially in the books after deliberating for about two hours Friday. Today, jurors spent the whole day inside the courthouse as they continue their deliberations. Good evening everyone. I'm Glenn Jones. JC is off tonight. While we still don't have a verdict, there is definitely activity to report from court today. No small matter either. Let's get out to our Melody Mendez. Mel, what happened today?

[Melody Mendez]

Well Glenn, first thing this morning, the defense filed a motion to change Those verdict slips we've heard so much about from the very beginning of this trial because we heard so much about them from the very end of the last trial. So here's the thing. They want those verdict forms to be simplified in their words. Now, the motion was quickly denied by the judge, but I want you to take a look at exactly what we're talking about here. So take a look. This is a look at the verdict form that has been approved already. You can see there's a line next to each potential lesser included charge where the jury can check the line for guilty. Now take a look at the proposed form that was offered by the defense. As you can see here in their version, there's a space for the jurors to check not guilty as well as guilty next to each lesser included charge. It basically just breaks it down so that they have both options for each. Now, the judge denied those changes, as I said, so the form will stay as is. But Karen Reed reacted on her way out of court today.

[Sue O'Connell]

You want more boxes added to that verdict, the lesser included?

[Michael Coyne]

Yes.

[Sue O'Connell]

Can you explain why that's important to you?

[Michael Coyne]

I think what happened last year with the same verdict form explains that the jurors themselves find it confusing and have said as much. So we just wanted to avoid that again. And apparently the court is not concerned. So we'll just move forward and wait on the jury.

[Melody Mendez]

Now, I spoke with NBC10's Chief Legal Analyst, Michael Coyne earlier today about this form and the judge's decision. And he said it makes sense. Sense. The judge likely ruled this way because of the fact that that prior form, that version of the form has already been approved by the sjc, the state's highest court. And so it's consistent with Massachusetts state law. Essentially, it can't be overturned on appeal because, oh, that's that verdict form is something we haven't seen before. It's already been through the system and it's been said to work and be consistent with law as it is. Glenn, back to you.

[Sue O'Connell]

All right, Melanie, you said his name and like Voldemort, he suddenly appears. Michael Coyne, our chief legal analysis here, along with Margaret maclean. Thank you both for being here as well. All right, so let's get to the thing everybody is talking about. We're going to take a closer look at the verdict slip. First, a refresher on the charges. Karen Reid faces second degree murder, motor vehicle manslaughter while driving under the influence and leaving the scene of a collision causing injury and death. Now, let's Dig into the jury slip, because this is where things get so gray. Here's a look at page one for murder in the second degree. You can see two areas to check. Guilty or not guilty. Jumping ahead to page three, where, again, two clear options. This is for leaving the scene of an accident. Then there's page two. Take a look at what the jury has to decide on. This looks a lot more complicated. And there's also the guilty of lesser charge pertaining to Ouija, completely new for this second trial jury. Adding it to the verdict slip was the request of the defense. Keep in mind. So, first off, why don't we start there, Michael? Help us understand why the defense may have added a charge and in a way giving this jury another reason to potentially convict their client based on feedback.

[Alan Jackson]

In all likelihood, from potential jurors or the last set of jurors that, as well as the public generally, that they feel Ms. Reed has done something wrong, but nothing along the lines of the significant charges she faced. So what they were doing is giving the jury an out. They don't necessarily have to exonerate her completely, but they convict her of a DUI offense, which carries with it generally a relatively minor penalty, especially compared to.

[Sue O'Connell]

The other things she's facing a penalty for.

[Alan Jackson]

All the other major charges have mandatory minimum sentences with it.

[Karen Reed]

The.

[Alan Jackson]

The DUI charge, even the aggravated DUI charge, does not have a mandatory minimum sentence.

[Sue O'Connell]

Margaret, you are a former prosecutor. When you heard the defense attorney suggest this to the judge in the instructions, were you surprised to hear it?

[Margaret MacLean]

I was a little surprised, but I think it was brilliant on part of the defense. I agree with Michael on this issue. So if the jury comes back with a guilty on the Ouija, that's a huge win for the defense. And then, of course, not guilty on everything else.

[Sue O'Connell]

All right. When you compare the jury slip to the one used last year during the first trial, both are fairly complicated. That leads us to a viewer question from Kristen in Rhode Island. She wants to know if jurors are confused as they complete the verdict slip. Can they ask the judge for clarity? Margaret?

[Margaret MacLean]

Absolutely. Yeah. They can have. You know, they can go through it. I think one thing about this jury slip, she did a very nice job this time around, simplifying the offenses and then the lesser offenses in her instructions. I think she did a better job than she did last trial. So if they have any confusion at all about her instructions, which they'll have in the court along with the verdict slip, they can ask her for sure.

[Sue O'Connell]

The defense tried to simplify the forms today. But as Melody mentioned, the motion was denied. But that got Kelly from Springfield thinking to ask this. I understand there is no case law to support changing the slip, but at what point does a case get to be the first to support changing the slip? Michael, this is a really important question.

[Alan Jackson]

I think it's a very good question. It either requires the trial judge to depart from existing law, and most trial courts don't do that. When they change the law, that's likely going to be at the appellate level and in our case, likely at the supreme Judicial court level. So you're asking a trial judge to do something that is inconsistent generally with what most trial judges will do. Some might vary that form. The safer route is to use the existing form that's already been approved by the court and allow it to take place. The problem isn't the same as last year. Last year, the jury was confused as to whether they could return a verdict on any of the counts unless they were unanimous on them all. This one is asking for that form could be cleaned up and clarified so we don't have any confusion with this verdict when it comes in.

[Sue O'Connell]

On that point, I need to ask both of you. You're far more scholarly than I, but as a layman, it seems so frustrating that so many people seem to agree this form could be clearer, but no one can do anything about it until someone's aggrieved and then sues. Why not proactively fix the problem?

[Margaret MacLean]

Well, again, going back to what Michael just said, it would be difficult for the trial court judge to change that. But you're right. You know, I do agree there's a little bit of confusion there. But according to this is what they always use in Massachusetts. It's the same verdict slipped. I was a juror. It was the same verdict slipped. I used.

[Sue O'Connell]

But I guess the point I'm making is for someone who doesn't study the law, it's frustrating that it's because it's the way we've always done this.

[Alan Jackson]

Exactly. If you went into a new job and said, why are we doing it this way? And that's the answer, you'd say, well, we can do better, and frankly, we can do better with that form. But you'd be asking Judge Kanoni to do something that would then give the defendant yet another appellate avenue, and that's unlikely that she's going to do it after two full trials and all the money spent.

[Sue O'Connell]

All right. So with the way things stand now, the jury has the option to decide on whether Karen Reid is Guilty or not guilty on OUI or OUI with a blood alcohol level of 0.8 or greater. We did some research. Massachusetts has some of the toughest sentencing in the country for operating under the influence. The punishment can be up to two and a half years in prison, even if you're a first time offender. And that leads us to our next question. If Karen Reid is found guilty of only drinking and driving, wouldn't it be fair to charge everybody else who was drinking and driving that night with all the video evidence that we've gotten why or why, maybe that wouldn't happen. Margaret.

[Margaret MacLean]

Okay. The standard person out there. So you know, yeah, this is a high profile murder trial. So the standard oui, I tried many, many ouis back in the day as a former prosecutor and you know, standard, you're not going to put much effort. The state doesn't have the money to put that much effort into the trial for one oui. But the standard is probation in the 24D alcohol program. So I think if she is convicted, she's most likely just to get probation and that program.

[Alan Jackson]

Well, but that's the interesting question here. First of all, to answer the first part of the question, the others haven't admitted to having nine drinks and pouring shots into their last drinks.

[Sue O'Connell]

Councilman Reid has made some public statements.

[Alan Jackson]

Is your point, and that has been entered in the evidence in this case. And the extrapolation indicates the breathalyzer would have been significantly higher. But that's the real question at the end of the day is this. If convicted of just the dui, will the court sentence her as a first time offender, as is traditionally done for all defendants, which is no jail time, as you pointed out, the sentence carries with it up to two and a half years. The judge could sentence her beyond just how you would sentence the traditional first time oui offender.

[Sue O'Connell]

But there's another view to take care potentially, Margaret, and I think you touched on it a second ago. If she is convicted ultimately of oui and nothing else, this will be an enormously expensive drunk driving case.

[Margaret MacLean]

Oh, yeah. Oh, big time. My gosh. Yeah. So, you know, and I don't know is the judge. It'll make a big difference. For as far as her sentencing goes though, the only thing is, as Michael pointed out, there were there's a lot more evidence with the number of drinks she had and the admissions. But you know, a standard oui, she has no criminal record, is probation, it's not jail time. So we'll see what happens.

[Sue O'Connell]

All right. If Karen Reid is convicted of any of the charges. What happens next? That's the thing that we want to talk about from here. I know one of our viewers was wondering if whether she is convicted, she goes straight to jail or if she can be free while appealing, if that's what her defense team decides to do.

[Alan Jackson]

Not likely free while appealing, but free for some period of time to put her house in order to get her.

[Sue O'Connell]

Affairs settled before sentencing.

[Alan Jackson]

Before sentencing, right.

[Sue O'Connell]

That would be the standard. All right. Thank you both very much for your insight. We've got a lot more to get to this evening. Don't go anywhere. Our conversation continues after a break. Courtroom insider Sue o' Connell is back with us and so is our Melanie Mendez. Mel, what's coming up?

[Melody Mendez]

Well, Glenn, it's the question everyone is asking, right? How long will it take this jury to deliberate? And what does that length of time tell us about the verdict they might hand down when they do reach a verdict? We talked to the experts. We went back into the record books, into the history books. We got some answers for you coming up.

[Sue O'Connell]

All right, Mel, we'll see you shortly before we go to break. This trial is in its final phase, but we want to once again take a moment to remember the victim in this case, John o' Keefe. He grew up in Braintree and proudly served as a Boston police officer for more than a decade. Much has been said about what a good friend and brother he was and how he became the legal guardian of his niece and nephew after they lost both of their parents to illness. He was 46 years old. This is Canton Confidential, the Karen Reed murder trial.

[Glenn Jones]

Don't miss any of the Karen Reed murder trial. Get the full recap of what happened in court, expert analysis and what we could see next. This is coverage you won't see anywhere else. Canton confidential, weeknights at 7 on NBC 10 Boston.

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[Sue O'Connell]

A jury of seven women, five men, has the case and can read's fate lies in their hands. But how long will deliberate deliberations take and what does it mean the longer the jury is in that room deliberating? Melanie Mendez is back with us. Mel, what'd you find out about this?

[Melody Mendez]

All right, well, Glenn, to your question, what does it mean? The short answer is no one knows because here's the thing. History has shown us that the length of time those jurors are in that room deliberating means pretty much nothing as to what the verdict that they hand down will be. Take a look.

[Michael Coyne]

O.J.

[Melody Mendez]

Simpson, not guilty in four hours. Casey Anthony, not guilty in 10 hours. Thirty minutes. Robert Blake, acquitted in 35 hours. We dove into some of the most high profile murder trials in our country over the last decades to see how long deliberations took each jury. And the pattern? Well, there is none. Regardless of the outcome, the numbers were all over the board. It took a jury 35 hours to convict former New England patriot Aaron Hernandez, only nine hours to convict Conrad Murray in the death of Michael Jackson in a case prosecuted by Alan Jackson, a defense attorney for Karen Reed. It took the jury 30 hours to convict Phil Spector of second degree murder. But it took the jury in the Scott Peterson case only three hours. And the jury in Whitey Bulger's case with special prosecutor Hank Brennan on the defense team took 32 hours to reach a guilty verdict. The D.C. sniper was convicted in five. So you can see the numbers are all over the board here, Glenn. I had a really interesting conversation with NBC10's chief legal analyst Michael Coyne earlier today about these numbers and what they mean. And he did bring up a really interesting point. The one tell he says that the numbers do give us is the longer the jury is in that room deliberating, the higher the likelihood goes for a hung jury for a misconduct trial. Because if the jury is hung, that means they're on different pages and it's going to take them a lot longer to try to get everyone on the same page to reach that unanimous verdict. Of course, we saw that play out last time this case was in trial last year. Hopefully we won't see that again this time around. Back to you.

[Sue O'Connell]

All right, Melanie Mendez, thank you very much. We're joined now By Sue o' Connell, our courtroom insider. And Michael Coyne is back with us again. Sue, you've said all along that you found this jury to be a very pensive jump bunch. I suppose it wouldn't surprise you to know that they're in there really talking through this seriously and methodically.

[Karen Reed]

Yes, I've talked to a number of people who know a lot more about what I know about watching jurors, and they were very, very attentive. They had heightened levels of attentiveness when it came to certain subjects. They all wrote notes, except for the foreman, who we've all been talking about. Maybe we saw him write a note or two, but at the same time, very attentive. And they may want to be thorough in reviewing. I mean, there's over 100 exhibits, all the evidence. I mean, the one jury that I served on, I wanted to stay, you know, to get lunch after we found the person not guilty. And I got yelled at by the foreman because we wanted to get back out there. But I think they want to make sure that they are being as thorough and serious and doing their due diligence on this.

[Sue O'Connell]

Michael, based on what we heard about your conversation with Melody, is there a day this week where we should start to get seriously concerned about the jury being hung?

[Alan Jackson]

I could see that if we don't have a verdict by the close of business on Wednesday, since Thursday is a day off for Juneteenth, we should start to think that we could be looking at yet another potential hung jury. I think, though, what the judge will do this time is she will not release them after five days, even if they are reporting that they're hung. They'll be back next week. We'll be bumping into the middle of next week before we really have to start to worry about the jury is truly hung and won't be coming back with the decision.

[Sue O'Connell]

All right, there are a lot of people waiting outside the courthouse for this verdict to come in and the jury to come back. Let's switch gears to that atmosphere. You've had a lot of company outside the courthouse. A sea of pink. It really is a changing atmosphere now that we're in deliberations, but notably, they're silent. Instead of cheering for Reid, many were seen holding up the sign language gesture for love. Very different from trial number one.

[Melody Mendez]

We pray that there will be justice.

[Sue O'Connell]

For officer John o' Keefe. But right now, an innocent woman is being framed for this, and we're here to support her and seek justice for her freedom. Crowds were roaring a Year ago. Since then, the court ordered buffer zone was tightened and then relaxed on appeal. Judge Kanone has okayed some gatherings as long as trial watchers are not loud enough to distract the jury inside. Defense attorney Alan Jackson gave Karen Reed supporters this brief reminder today as he and Reed left court. Sue, this is really a remarkable development in this whole story. A very disciplined Karen Reed crowd, all wearing pink, staying silent. Because the risk here is that if they're loud, the jury inside can hear them.

[Karen Reed]

Well, not only that, but Judge Canoni has made clear that you can gather, you just can't be loud and disruptive. Remember, this isn't the only trial going on in this courtroom as well. Every day other defendants are facing life changing, life altering court trials that are happening. So it's not just for Karen Reed, it's for all the people in the building, in both buildings. And Alan Jackson has gone directly to these folks and I know that they've gotten the message. And I have seen the defense team meeting with the state troopers, meeting with the court officers behind the scenes in the courtroom, I mean in the open, but making sure that everybody is on the same page, being safe, keeping the volume down and also making sure you can get Karen out of that courthouse safely. Which is another issue with the big media scrum at the bottom and people who are showing up. I talked to people today from Florida, people from Tennessee, people showing up with their signs that are just like, can I just walk through? So there is a collective here that's different from the last collective trying just to control the volume. You can show your support, you can show the sign language of love. You. And Alan Jackson is not missing a beat trying to corral this, this crowd.

[Sue O'Connell]

When you think about Michael, what's happening inside and outside the courtroom this time compared to a year ago, you must think this is more befitting of the justice we're trying to discover here.

[Alan Jackson]

It is more appropriate. You do have to worry about safety now, especially as the crowd's getting bigger and we getting to really kind of a tense period of time. You hope that the law enforcement is able to keep the everyone safe because it looks like coming out of the courtroom, the participants now leaving the courthouse steps and the like, There is some real sense that someone could be hurt, not necessarily intentionally, but just because of the weight of the crowd and crushing the participants as they leave court.

[Karen Reed]

I mean, some of the photographers have fallen. I've already seen two falls. So it is a dangerous scrum that's happening. And it's usually just the media that's there, the press. But there are people all along, civilians all along the walkway. There are people there in wheelchairs today. There's dogs, there's little kids. So the crowd aspect of it, not. And again, just what happens when there's a crowd, not a good crowd or a bad crowd, just a neutral crowd. It is concerning and I know that everyone's trying to work to keep everyone safe.

[Sue O'Connell]

Michael, just a few seconds left, but I must point out that Alan Jackson was the person we saw there working to quiet the crowd. I saw video similar to that on Friday. My immediate thought might be that free Karen Reid supporters being loud would be something that benefits his side. But clearly he doesn't see it that way.

[Alan Jackson]

No, he. And he also wants to make sure that the court orders are complied with, that the people outside are not interfering with the jury's deliberations and you don't want them affecting the jury's deliberations adversely. So he's doing what the good advocate should do and a good citizen should do it.

[Karen Reed]

He also said they have to stay at the courthouse if they're loud and Karen needs to go get lunch. So if they scream when she leaves, can't do that.

[Sue O'Connell]

Sue and Michael, thank you very much. Thank you for tuning in as well. If you have questions about this case, keep sending them our way. The email address is on your screen. We'll answer as many questions as we can. And remember to join us every weeknight at 7 on NBC. We'll have a full recap of the latest developments from Cord as well as legal analysis. Plus this week's episodes will be streaming on Peacock beginning on Sunday. This is Canton Confidential, the Karen Reed murder Trial.

[Glenn Jones]

Watch Latoya Edwards and Raul Martinez. Weekdays at 6am on NBC 10 Boston.

[Scott Aukerman]

This is Comedy Bang Bang the podcast, the promo and in 30 seconds I'm going to tell you why you should check out the show. I, the host, Scott Aukerman, have a light hearted conversation with famous celebrities like Jon Hamm, Allison Williams, Phoebe Bridgers, Jason Alexander, Natasha Lyonne, Bob Odenkirk, just to name a few things. Go a little off the rails when different eccentric characters and oddballs drop by to be interviewed as well. Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast Listen every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.