Melody Mendez (2:41)

Well, jc, here's the thing. Let's talk about that motion for a mistrial because that is without question the headline of the day. The bottom line here is the prosecutor made a mistake. Those were his words, he said in open court. The defense thinks that was enough to call for a mistrial. The judge once again disagreed. But here's how it all played out. Accident reconstructionist Dr. Daniel Wolfe back on the stand, the defense pulling up photos of the test dummy, noting that after it was impacted by the SUV and testing there were holes in its clothing inconsistent with those in John o' Keefe's clothes.

J.C. Monahan (3:15)

What caused the defects in the and the damage to the sweatshirt as we.

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Melody Mendez (3:29)

Alan Jackson also noted the damage to the dummy's face, none of which was present on John o' Keefe's body or face. Trying to show o' Keefe's injuries were not consistent with any collision with Reed's suv. Under cross examination, Hank Brennan tried to poke holes in the doctor's science, trying to discredit the doctor's conclusion that o' Keefe was not hit by Karen Reed's vehicle. Brennan asked Wolf if he considered that o' Keefe's sweatshirt had holes in locations other than on the sleeve. Brennan holding up the sweatshirt John Okeefe was wearing that night pointing to holes in the back of the garment. Minutes later this the defense moves for.

Judge Kanoni (4:01)

A mistrial with prejudice.

Melody Mendez (4:04)

Here's the problem. Those holes Brennan was showing the jury as potentially indicating signs of a collision were actually made by the criminalist, the prosecution team's witness when she was examining the sweatshirt. Defense attorney Robert Lessee called it a stunt and intentional misconduct by the prosecution.

Judge Kanoni (4:20)

The Commonwealth has no case. They have no collision. They are desperate and are trying to create evidence of specters of collision where the evidence doesn't support it. So where are. What have we come to? We've come to the manufacture of evidence.

J.C. Monahan (4:40)

It appears that I made a mistake.

Melody Mendez (4:42)

Brennan agreed the holes were made by the state's own criminalists. Still, Judge Kennoni denied the defense's request for a mistrial. Instead, she allowed attorney Alessi to hold up the sweatshirt jury, then provided them with this brief instruction.

J.C. Monahan (4:54)

Jurors, I instruct you that those holes were made by the criminalist Ms. Harnett during the course of her inspection and.

Melody Mendez (5:03)

Sampling of the sweatshirt, two more witnesses took the stand. Before the end of the day and as we do every day, we offered the friends and family of John o' Keefe a chance to share their thoughts on their way out of court.

J.C. Monahan (5:13)

We don't have to.

Margo Lindauer (5:14)

You guys have all the lies going on.

J.C. Monahan (5:16)

Good job, by the way. Doing a great job spreading the lies.

Melody Mendez (5:19)

They made it clear they do not wish to speak at this time. Now, Sue o' Connell can speak more to that exchange that happened outside of court. But I do want to mention I did reach out again to a contact with the o' Keeffe family to give them a chance to speak with us if and when they want to.

J.C. Monahan (5:40)

J.C. back to you, Melody. Okay, we have a full panel tonight. Joining us is our chief legal analyst, Michael Coyne, courtroom insider Sue o' Connell. And we want to introduce attorney and law professor Margo Lindauer. Welcome, Margo, love having you here. All right, let's jump right into the first topic. The defense calling for a mistrial. It happened right after the morning break. Defense attorney that you just heard, Robert Alessi cited intentional misconduct by the prosecution when Hank Brennan showed the jury the holes in the back of John Okeefe sweatshirt. Just heard all of that from Melody. Here's a clip, though, from today's proceedings.

Judge Kanoni (6:13)

The Commonwealth well knows from its own documents, from its own criminal list that those holes in the back were caused by their criminalist as part of their examination and sampling of the hoodie. The Commonwealth has no case. They have no collision. They are desperate and are trying to create evidence of specters of collision where the evidence doesn't support it.

Sue O'Connell (6:46)

Okay.

J.C. Monahan (6:46)

More than once, Robert Alessi called Brennan's actions a stunt, saying the prosecutor made it appear to jurors as if those holes were caused by a collision with a car. Brennan's response to the accusations was quick and to the point. My brief review of the lab paperwork.

Sue O'Connell (7:02)

And looking at the hoodie, it appears.

J.C. Monahan (7:04)

That I made a mistake.

Sue O'Connell (7:06)

And so I think what should happen is there should be curative instruction.

J.C. Monahan (7:11)

So there it was, the apology straight out and basically said to Judge Kanoni, you do what you need to do. That mistake was on me, Michael. Margo, this was her second attempt at a mistrial for this. How common is that? How many, how many times do they. Every opportunity, I would assume.

Michael Coyne (7:29)

Exactly right. Every opportunity you can. You're going to argue that the actions of the Commonwealth were deliberate and were done with the intention to try and prejudice the jury to the extent that is, they then get a mistrial, the case will be over and it'll be over forever. So they're going to try it. But to Argue, as they did today, that there's no evidence. Evidence of collision. That really goes beyond it. There's a. There's evidence of collision at this point.

J.C. Monahan (7:54)

Margaret, what do you think about the Judge Canoni's decision to that motion?

Margo Lindauer (7:58)

I think that she made a. I am not surprised by her decision. I think she made a very reasonable decision given where we are in the trial and the facts that have been presented thus far. I think the fact that the prosecutor did quickly admit to wrongdoing actually shows good intent by the prosecutor, and that was affirmed by Judge Kanoni as well.

J.C. Monahan (8:20)

All right, that leads us to our first viewer question. It's a three parter from Judy in Peabody. She wants to know, will Hank Brennan be reprimanded in any way for the blatant error regarding John o' Keeffe sweatshirt? Shouldn't the commonwealth's team have recognized this error and will this be excused?

Michael Coyne (8:37)

There have been mistakes by both sides made throughout this case, and I don't think they're intentional. And the fact is, is that he owned his mistake. As Margot said, judge gave a curative instruction to the jury and in all likelihood, they sort of shrugged their shoulders and moved on with the evidence that was before them. They didn't see all the drama and the performative true motion.

J.C. Monahan (9:02)

What was up with the black gloves.

Michael Coyne (9:04)

By the way he was handling evidence?

Sue O'Connell (9:07)

They all have to.

J.C. Monahan (9:08)

No, no, no. But they're usually blue.

Sue O'Connell (9:09)

No, they all had black gloves in there today. Black lives.

J.C. Monahan (9:12)

Judge Kenny did some special instructions. She told them not to consider. John sweatshirt could have come from whatever happened on January 29, 2022. It could not because they were from the prosecution's criminologists. Sue, you were in the court. How did the jury react to the instructions?

Sue O'Connell (9:28)

So I was telling Michael before the trial, like, I mean, before the show. It's such a weird experience because during the recess, that's when they, the defense asked to take the jersey out, the hoodie out of the Plexiglas, and the clerk had to go find a knife and they cut it out and they all put gloves on. Everyone had black gloves on. Everything was delayed. They get the bag, they examine it. We go on and on and on. We have this big argument and then the jury comes in and they go, okay, you know, I mean, they don't know any of this that's going on now, whether this weighs on them in some way or they just say, oh, well, that's another piece of evidence that we are not going to consider or what happened here. But it's this whole behind the scenes thing happening. And then they're just like, can we just move along here? Lunch is going to be here any minute.

J.C. Monahan (10:12)

Just a reminder, they're not seeing so much of what any of it we are privy to. All right, so, Margo, with everything that happened today, including the defense calling more expert witnesses, Reid's team seems to be taking different strategic moves this time around than they did in the first trial. Are they working?

Margo Lindauer (10:28)

I think they are. I think they are. Remember, to prove that Karen Reid is guilty, it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt, which is an extremely high standard. And if the defense is able to lift up any sort of doubt, any confusion, any discrepancies in testimony, if they can have conflicting analyses by experts, which they certainly are doing, some people would say that that raises up to reasonable doubt and therefore she should be found not guilty.

J.C. Monahan (10:58)

Well, back on the stand today was Dr. Daniel Wolf from the Crash Reconstructionist Team ARCA. You may remember he closed out last week's testimony. On Friday. We heard Dr. Wilf give specific details about the crash, including the crash test, I should say, including, like the weight of John's arm compared to that of the test dummy, Recover Ricky or something like that, or Randy. They used, I don't know, there was a name for their test dummy. Do you think the visuals. Okay, because this time it wasn't just blue paint on one arm. This was a full life size dummy that was shown in these videos. Does that play better to the defense or to the prosecution? Simply because we're now seeing sort of a full body reenactment of what could have been happened?

Michael Coyne (11:42)

I think it plays better to the prosecution. You do, you know? Yeah, I do. Because think about your business, right? You tell stories through video and sound and now the jury can see. And I've had doubts all along as to how the vehicle could strike him, not break a bone and not do anything else and throw him on the lawn. Their own pictures now, and pictures are really going to impact the jury, I think show him hitting his arm with that light, breaking a piece of the light and then falling to the ground with other debris around him. Those are going to be very difficult visual images for the jury to then abandon later on. It's still a case of reasonable doubt, as Margot points out. But those images, they took a big chance going with that, that route with those images that will leave an impression on the jury.

J.C. Monahan (12:30)

Well, of course, then the whole point was for Dr. Wolf to explain why that isn't similar to what, you know, Injuries were on John o' Keeffe's body. What do you think about the images shown?

Margo Lindauer (12:41)

I think I agree, and I think that both sides are trying different strategies because clearly the first trial didn't work, so to speak. And so I agree that seeing a visual of a body makes it real for the jurors. And seeing different visuals also kind of diversifies the day. Right. Sue, you're talking about the jurors just want to go to lunch, right? These are people that are regular people who have jobs, have families and have had to come in day in and day out. The attorneys have to make a case, have to make a story, have to persuade. And doing so through visuals is a very, very effective measure.

J.C. Monahan (13:18)

Sue, did you see anything? We always ask you about the jury because you're in there. Did they react any, any way to the video that Dr. Wolf was showing?

Sue O'Connell (13:26)

Well, not any more or less than they astutely have been all through this trial. I mean, I joke about them going to lunch, but they're taking a ton of notes and they're very involved. And I'm always interested when one witness comes on and starts giving testimony, basic testimony that they've already heard twice from. And they're still writing it down, they're still paying attention. So I don't know if it had an impact much like the clips do. I'm sure it will in the deliberation room, but they're just taking this information down like there's going to be a test. Okay, there is a big one.

J.C. Monahan (13:58)

Yes, exactly. All right, Michael Margosu, don't go anywhere. We're going to come right back after this break. First, though, we want to take this moment to remember the victim in this case. John o' Keefe. He was a Boston police officer. He was was a Braintree native. He was the legal guardian of his niece and nephew after they lost both of their parents to illness. He was just 46 years old. You're watching Canton Confidential, the Karen Reed murder trial.

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J.C. Monahan (15:49)

We are back now with Michael Vargo and Sue. All right, let's talk about decorum in the courtroom because we have Kathy from Boston who sent in this question. Is it typical to have the lack of respect we've seen here in the courtroom? And if so, who is responsible for maintaining a professional atmosphere? Kathy says she's noticed in the last few weeks that witnesses are being disrespectful to the judge, to the attorneys, and vice versa. We put together just a few moments that sort of compile what she's talking about. Good morning. Morning. Morning, ma' am.

Michael Coyne (16:27)

I feel like I've answered it the.

Ad Announcer (16:28)

Best I can, you, Honor.

J.C. Monahan (16:29)

Okay, you don't like that question.

Ad Announcer (16:31)

Objection.

J.C. Monahan (16:32)

That was not objected to.

Michael Coyne (16:34)

There's a big difference.

J.C. Monahan (16:36)

So, so let's, we'll deal. We'll deal with this tomorrow. Just three examples from more than dozens basically during this, this trial. Is this just how trials work or is this, does this fall into the line of decorum?

Margo Lindauer (16:53)

I would argue that this falls into the line of decorum and it is not normal. I think as attorneys, you take an oath to respect the court, judges, the decorum adhered to by the profession. I would argue that it's up to the attorneys to maintain that decorum. And it's up to the judge to also kind of control her courtroom. And I would say that it is not normal, but it has been very common throughout this trial.

J.C. Monahan (17:24)

So, yes, for us who are not used to this, it can sort of feel like it might be normal. Judge Kanoni highlighted the time, by the way, that the jury has had to wait outside the courtroom. She said this to the attorneys today after lunch. We've wasted, we've done important work, but we've wasted an awful lot of the jurors time today. Okay. So Susan from Braintree Noticed that. She asks, do you think the jurors are getting annoyed by having to come and go from the courtroom so much and by all the interruptions and lack of testimony almost every day. Sue, here's another time that we don't see it. We see the fan spinning. We see them being asked to leave the courtroom. I think Judge Kanone even made note that they have to go up and down stairs.

Sue O'Connell (18:05)

Yes, they do.

J.C. Monahan (18:06)

So they get sent down the walk.

Sue O'Connell (18:07)

Back through a courtroom, down the back stairs of the other courtroom. It's a trip.

J.C. Monahan (18:12)

And can you see the wear and tear?

Sue O'Connell (18:14)

Absolutely. I mean, I think she's doing an excellent job explaining, explaining to them what's happening. Thank you for your time. If they start late, and I know people watching are like, oh, my gosh, what kind of hours are you working there? They're doing business in the morning, even if you're seeing the fan and for some reason you're not seeing the trial. If they're late getting into the courtroom, the judge gets some coffee and donuts and bagels. And she seems very concerned and caring about their well being. And that's one of her main jobs, right? To make sure the jurors are cared for. I do believe I was out of the courtroom today for an hour. I came back in and I was struck at how bored the jurors were looked because I'm looking at them all the time, right. So I don't always see it. And I'm like, holy cow, they're really bored. And then she sent the sidebar to the back little office that's in the courtroom and said to them, I don't want to send you away again for five minutes, you know, and just do what you want while you sit here. And they laughed. And then I was like, oh, she is absolutely right. They are getting like, what the heck is going on here? Let's move this train along.

J.C. Monahan (19:12)

And Michael, she did let them out 10 minutes early, which, like a school bell, you're just like, yes, you know, you've been watching the clock. But that again, was in reference to, we don't want to waste your time. And the lawyers and I have things that we have to get done.

Michael Coyne (19:24)

Both things are actually related. The judge is responsible for the decorum in the courtroom and making sure the jury's time is properly used. But what happens in a long trial, and this is a long trial, as we know, that nerves get frayed, patience gets lower, and people want to be done the job at some point, and it does become a little too Personal, you know, we talked about to our students about depersonalize the argument. Don't talk about Attorney Alessia or Attorney Brennan. It's the government or the commonwealth and it's the defendant who are doing certain things and you can't take it personally as things unfold. And unfortunately, I think we have seen a little too much of that back and forth with both the attorneys and the witnesses lately. And that doesn't reflect well on our profession. But Judge Canoni, I think, is doing a good job trying to keep that in place.

Sue O'Connell (20:15)

And she warned them about that today about one of the voir d like, don't start calling each other names. So she's, she's putting the hammer down on all the teams right now.

J.C. Monahan (20:24)

The jury did not see this moment. We did. But Margo, what about when Judge Canoni actually made a comment saying, I can tell the jury is getting tired. Is that okay to say? Yes, okay.

Margo Lindauer (20:38)

I believe it is. I think it shows that, to Sue's point, that Judge Kanoni is concerned about the well being of the jurors, about the expediency of this trial, about the necessary, the necessity to get going and to make every moment count. And the theatrics are not necessary.

Michael Coyne (20:57)

Right.

J.C. Monahan (20:58)

So we did get a lot of your questions about okay, but Judge Kanoni seems to be rushing things and the defense should have all the time that they want. So how do you counter that with any implication that she is somehow injecting herself into?

Michael Coyne (21:12)

Her suggestion today was read the room, read the jury. You know, you can start to tell when their patience is at an end, when they're not interested in your witnesses or that portion of the testimony. Read the room. And what she's saying is be careful because you'll lose the jury if you're not. That's simply being wise and telling them to use their time properly.

Sue O'Connell (21:33)

She also said people have been blaming her online for taking last Thursday off. She made clear in court today, don't make me regret letting you take last Thursday off. She said to the counsel. So one of the counsel probably said, hey, we could probably take Thursday off because we're going to wrap up. And she agreed to it. And they were on time. And now I think they're just at the schedule a little behind. So now she's mad that she gave the jurors a day off because I think one of the counsels asked for it and they're taking up too much time.

J.C. Monahan (21:59)

But isn't that what they're paying the money for, is that you should be able to read the room. That's. That's part of being a lawyer, right?

Michael Coyne (22:06)

Absolutely.

J.C. Monahan (22:07)

So why are they? I'm just curious.

Sue O'Connell (22:10)

It is a tough jury to read, I have to say. They really are very stoic and they look attentive. And that doesn't mean that they're not bored or aggravated or happy or sad. So I think that might be part of it. And she gets information from the court officers. Right. If they're grumbling or if they're upset about the lunches, I mean, there's a whole other universe going on that we don't know about. And the court officers are telling her that as well. That's not a confidence issue or a confidentiality issue. But if they're unhappy, the court officers who are helping them know about it.

J.C. Monahan (22:42)

Interesting.

Margo Lindauer (22:42)

Absolutely. And I would also say that strategy is part of the case. So we could say why, why are, why are either side taking too long? It's not good strategy, but maybe that is exactly their strategy. We just don't know. I mean, strategic lawyering is part of this game.

J.C. Monahan (22:59)

And that's why I asked, because the viewer emails that we get in indicate they feel like Judge Kanoni is interjecting herself into the timing. When to your point, that's really on in this case, the defense's decision on how to pace the witnesses in their line of questioning.

Michael Coyne (23:18)

Absolutely. And having tried a bunch of cases, I can tell you Judge Kanoni is giving them far more latitude than a lot of judges would. Oftentimes, they are going well beyond what would be reasonable before many other judges.

J.C. Monahan (23:32)

Well, I gotta tell you, Michael, Margo, sue, this has been a day and it's only Monday. We have a lot more to get to. Thank you so much for you for joining us tonight. For all of you as well. If you have any questions about this case, keep sending them our way. The email is on your screen. Canton.confidentialbcu you and I.com we'll answer as many questions as we can. And remember to join us every weeknight at 7 on NBC 10 Boston. We'll have a full recap of the latest developments from court as well as legal analysis. Plus, this week's episodes will be streaming on Peacock on Sunday. And if you're on the go, check out our true crime podcast about the case. It's the audio version of our nightly show that will catch you up on all the twists and the turns up until this point. You're watching Canton Confidential, the Karen Reed murder trial.

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