← The Lindsay Clancy Trial: Commonwealth Confidential
The Lindsay Clancy Trial: Commonwealth Confidential
Lindsay Clancy trial | Doctors testify about defendant's condition before killings
00:18:03
Jurors on Friday heard from psychiatrists who treated the Duxbury mother in the months before the deaths of her three children. Our legal analysts talk about the testimony's impact on the murder trial, as well as a heated moment in court involving a reference to a hot mic and how the medical professionals' testimony in the criminal case could impact civil lawsuits they're named in.
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A
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E
Tonight. Doctors who treated Lindsay Clancy in the months before the murders take the stand. Did you observe any signs of psychosis?
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G
No.
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E
Both are involved in lawsuits filed by Clancy and her ex husband.
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H
Did you ask her if she had any suicidal thoughts?
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C
Yes.
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H
What was her response?
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D
No.
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How their testimony could potentially impact the civil cases. Plus heated moments in court.
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Final Think you heard me. I did hear. All right, well then I'm going to allow that question.
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Our courtroom insider had a front row seat. How she says it all unfolded Commonwealth Confidential the Lindsay Clancy trial starts right now. Lindsey Clancy's mental health was front and center on the final day of testimony in week two of her murder trial. Good evening everyone. I'm J.C. monahan.
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A
And I'm Glenn Jones. Jurors heard from two doctors who treated Clancy in the months before she killed her three children. Two psychiatrists took the stand. Dr. Jennifer Tufts from Astor Mental Health and Dr. Alia Goodheart from McLean Hospital. Both testified about their experiences with Clancy before the murders. The Prosecution argues that the murders were premeditated, but Clancy's defense team says she was suffering from postpartum psychosis at the time of the murders and is therefore not criminally responsible. They allege her doctors failed to treat her properly.
- [02:57]
E
During this interaction with her on January 3, did you observe any signs of psychosis?
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A
No.
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E
Did anyone ever know any symptoms or concerns for psychosis?
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C
No.
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I
You indicated that you would assume that she would take what I prescribed. Do you do that with all of your patients? Assume that when they have mental disease or a defect that they would do what they're told if they are cooperative
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A
and they have been cooperative. The prosecution finished their questioning of Dr. Tufts right before court broke for the day. Kevin Reddington is expected to thoroughly cross examine her. Starting Monday morning. We expect to hear from additional doctors who treated Clancy leading up to the murders.
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E
Court documents filed by Clancy and her ex husband, Patrick, provide insight into how she managed her mental health struggles before that January night in 2023.
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The timeline outlines the steps Lindsay Clancy took to address deteriorating mental health. In September 2022, she sought medical treatment for her condition and began meeting with a doctor who prescribed a variety of medications. By Nov. 16, her insomnia became so severe she went to the ER at South Shore Hospital in Weymouth for treatment. On Dec. 5, she reported experiencing intrusive thoughts of wanting to die. So she contacted an emergency service for
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those at risk of self harm.
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On December 15, Lindsay told her husband she had thoughts of harming their children. On Dec.20, she went to the ER at Massachusetts General Hospital for help. The following day, she admitted herself into a day hospital program at Women and Infants Hospital in Providence for patients with postpartum depression. On January 1, 2023, Clancy admitted herself to McLean Hospital in Belmont because of suicidal ideation. She remained there until January 5th. The following day, she returned to treatment with her doctor. According to court documents, the doctor wrote that Clancy's psychiatric condition was, quote, deteriorating and that her medication was not. Over the next several days, she had two additional appointments with her doctor. Both times, she reported feeling depressed. On January 16, court documents say she experienced hallucinations telling her to harm her children and herself. Her final appointment with her doctor was on January 23rd. The next day, prosecutors say she killed her children and attempted to take her own life. We're joined now by our panel, defense attorney Morgietta Derisier and attorney Margo Lindauer. So we're going to dive into the Testimony from both Drs. Goodhart and Tufts. During their time on the stand, they were Repeatedly asked questions by prosecutors about Lindsey Clancy's mental state. Take a listen.
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E
Did you talk to her about her thoughts of suicide? Yes. And did you talk to her about whether she had any specific plan?
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D
Yes.
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E
Did she have any plan?
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B
No.
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H
Did you ask her questions such as,
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D
do you have suicidal intent?
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F
Yes.
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E
What was her response? That she did not.
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A
That brings us to this viewer question from Brian Daniels. I'm glad for this question. I think a lot of people are wondering this. The defendant's suicidal tendencies are not on trial here. I figured the questions would be revolving around the side effects of homicidal tendencies as a result of these drugs. Why isn't anyone asking about this, or at least as of yet? Margo, I'll start with you. It does seem like whether or not this suicide attempt was genuine is also an issue that is sort of playing out in front of the jury. Why is this specific point important, do you think, to both sides? It would appear.
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C
Well, it is a question related to her hospital. So if you are a harm to yourself or others during periods of hospitalization or seeking medical treatment, you need, per the law, intervention. And so that's my inclination as to why they're focusing so, so hard on this. But you're right. She is not on trial for harming herself. She is on trial for harming her children. And we all need to ask why they're focusing so hard on this.
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A
How are they connected? Are they connected?
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H
So I don't think they are connected. But what I will try to opine is that the commonwealth is trying to focus on her state of mind. Right. I'm going to go out there and say Lindsey Clancy is not going to take the stand. So we have to imagine what that timeframe was when, unfortunately, she killed her children. And if she attempted to take her own life, that could be part of the state of mind and the psychosis that she was experiencing at that time. Now, if you were to ask me, all of the other witnesses are talking about how great of a mom she was and how she was doing all these wonderful things. So it almost goes to the point for the defense that if she was such a great mom, why would she try to kill herself and her kids? And that's the mental state of mind that we're looking at.
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E
And this case has done that. It's put the spotlight on postpartum psychosis. But as we saw today, it's a disorder that even veteran psychiatrists may not have treated themselves. So take a look at this exchange during the cross examination of Dr. Goodhart
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how many patients have you treated? How many women have you treated that were suffering from postpartum psychosis? I don't recall.
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A
I don't remember.
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H
But I think it would stick in my memory.
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I
So I don't think that I probably have. You don't think you probably have? I don't. I don't think I have.
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A
I haven't seen any.
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E
Okay. So postpartum psychosis is one of three postpartum mood disorders. According to the National Institute of Health. The baby blues affect up to three in four women after delivery. Postpartum depression, which lasts longer than the baby blues, affects up to one in seven. Postpartum psychosis is extremely rare. It affects around one in 1,000 women after delivery. The Cleveland Clinic says postpartum psychosis can affect anyone who recently gave birth. People with the disorder at a much higher risk of harming themselves, dying by suicide, or harming their children. They can also experience hallucinations, delusions and paranoia. And in extreme cases, they may attempt to harm themselves or their newborn. So Morgana and Margo, Dr. Good Hart, had to stop and think for 10 seconds whether or not she could think of any patient she had ever treated or with psychosis. How can the jury wrap their mind around this illness and what it can potentially do to a woman if you don't even have a doctor on the stand to say, I have firsthand knowledge. I know we're not done with the trial yet, but.
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H
So credibility is going to be a huge piece in this case for the jury. Right. And so that was not a good witness. Not only did she not come off very credible, the information that she was relaying, I feel like, didn't land the way the prosecution probably wanted it to. And so you're gonna. If you're, you know, counting points on side. That was a great witness for the defense. Not only could she not recall any patient that she was treating for the case in which she's an expert witness on, but there were a lot of things she just could not recall. That doesn't really sit well with the jury.
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A
You know, Margo, I get a little worried as well, because JC Laid it out all perfectly about what this illness is. If A psychiatrist with 20 plus years experience has never seen a person with it before, I mean, I'm stunned.
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B
Right.
- [10:39]
C
So that is how rare it is. Right. And as JC Said, there's so much data around baby blues and postpartum depression and anxiety. And this is even further and much more severe. And to your point, you don't recall, maybe you don't recall. That is not a strong answer. You would know you would remember if you treated someone with this severe of an illness. And so her hesitation and we can opine as to why she was responding that way.
- [11:10]
A
Well, you've teed up the next question very well. Because Dr. Tufts and Dr. Goodhart are both connected to the civil lawsuit filed by Lindsey Clancy and her ex husband Patrick. The Clancy's are suing Goodhart's employer, McLean Hospital, as well as Tufts and her employer Esther Mental Health. Lindsey Clancy's lawsuit says, quote, as a direct result of defendants negligence, Lindsey suffered catastrophic physical injuries, including permanent paralysis and she lost her three beloved children. Lindsay now faces a lifetime of physical disability, psychological trauma, and the unbearable grief of waking up every day knowing she killed her children. All of which could have been prevented had defendants provided competent medical care. Those two lawsuits were filed earlier this year and are still pending. But these witnesses are on the stand now in a criminal trial. They must be thinking about that while they're testifying.
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H
Absolutely. And it's true.
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B
Right.
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H
And that if you're the attorney for these witnesses, you are sitting in your chair just hoping and praying that the advice you gave them was good enough. Because as we all know, any pre recorded or prior recorded statement can be used in any future proceeding. And so it's difficult to watch it. Right. But you have to answer the question to the best of your ability.
- [12:28]
E
That's where I thought the first Dr. Goodhart just failed because of her hesitancy. I think that that tore away a little bit of the credibility. Dr. Tufts I thought was much more direct, much more sure of what she wanted to say. But Goodhart had a hard time believing that she knew what she was talking about and remembered things.
- [12:47]
C
Also, it appeared as though Dr. Tufts was referencing her notes almost verbatim where Dr. Goodhart not as much. So that was also an interesting piece. They certainly were making those notes available. And maybe it was that Dr. Tuft's notes were very, very specific, but she was very specific about dosages and changing of meds and the timing of that and the timing of Lindsey's partial hospitalization and then hospitalization at McLean. But it's also interesting and we don't know kind of what else is going to come out that these two witnesses just spoke about medication.
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E
All right, there's a lot ahead here, fireworks in the courtroom between the judge and the defense. And our courtroom insider explains what happened.
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A
But first a moment to remember Cora Dawson and Callan Clancy, the three young victims in this case, Commonwealth Confidential we'll be right back. Hi, I'm Daniel, founder of Pretty Litter. Cats and cat owners deserve better than any old fashioned litter. That's why I teamed up with scientists and veterinarians to create Pretty Litter. Its innovative crystal formula has superior odor control and weighs up to 80% less than clay litter. Just one bag lasts up to a month, meaning fewer refills and less scooping. Pretty Litter even monitors health by changing colors to help detect early signs of potential illness. It's the world's smartest kitty litter.
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- [15:13]
I
There is to be no inappropriate comments or disruptive comments to be made inside of this courtroom. If anybody is found to make those, they will be immediately escorted out and barred for the balance of this.
- [15:31]
E
We are back now with Morgieta and courtroom insider Sue o'. Connell. So an especially animated day for Judge William Sullivan and of course, defense attorney Kevin Reddington. Not exactly clear what the judge was reacting to in that message you just heard, but it did come in about an hour after this exchange.
- [15:47]
I
No, I don't want to go to the sidebar. I really don't want to go to the sidebar. I need to know what you're going to talk about before I want to tell you that they got picked up on a hot mic saying shut her up during the playing of that autopsy
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F
all right,
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I
this is not. This is not like Handmaid's Tales. I'm not doing that at all.
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E
You saw the prosecutors look at each other when that allegation, sort of what Ruddington appeared to be alleging is that prosecutors were calling for someone to quiet Lindsey Clancy down during the time of Callan's autopsy photos when they were being shown. The DA's office denies this. They say someone else was actually saying to shut it off, meaning to take down the autopsy photos. So you were in the courtroom for that, as well as other exchanges. Do you feel like a different vibe today?
- [16:34]
B
Well, I have to say, with Kevin Reddington and Judge Sullivan, I feel like they have known each other a very long time. Right. So I think for the jury, perhaps they're like, whoa, look at these fireworks. Look what's happening. But at the same time, I haven't really ever seen a lawyer like Kevin Reddington who just sits there and yells things out on a regular basis, like, without an objection, and it just keeps rolling and he doesn't get corrected. Like, I can't imagine this happening, like, in Judge Kanoni's courtroom. Right. So it was fireworks, I think, for the jury. I'm sure they were wondering what was happening. I will say that the issue of what was said or not said, which I'm sure people have been seen online, if they're following it. It's unclear if who said what, if a mic picked it up about shut it down or shut her up. Because Lindsey was sobbing during the entire process of seeing the autopsy photos, but she didn't see them. There was a moment where the photo popped up, either on the big screen up front or at the prosecutor's desk. Only the jury saw them on the screens that were on either end. And it did pop up and did go down at a place it wasn't supposed to. So I guess it's sort of a. We don't know.
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A
I'm so glad you're in there for us. Each side presented their witness list before the trial, but the defense wants to add another. Kevin Redington filed a motion for Emily Thorndike to testify. She's a licensed clinical social worker who used to work at McLean Hospital. Reddington's motion says, quote, Ms. Thorndike was incensed over the cross examination of Patrick Clancy, wherein The prosecutor intimated McLean Hospital was one of the best hospitals in the country. Ms. Thorndike would testify to purported group therapy sessions supervised by unqualified individuals with no psychiatric or social work experience. The defense was alerted to Thorndike's viewpoint through a TikTok video. So we got to take a look at that.
- [18:35]
C
Very important.
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E
I was not there when she was
- [18:37]
C
there, but I literally worked there for eight years.
- [18:40]
E
We need to correct the misinformation that
- [18:42]
C
this prosecutor is saying about McLean and what the stay there is like.
- [18:48]
A
All right, Morgana, you're have to kind of context this for us because it does feel a little bit seedy that you would get a witness from TikTok who's following the trial and posting about it. But maybe this just happens all the time. Our senior producer reminded me about Dr. Marie Russell. That was a version of this in the hearing.
- [19:05]
E
Retrial.
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A
In the hearing.
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H
Retrial.
- [19:07]
A
Thank you for saying that part.
- [19:08]
H
And so I think the beauty is with all of these high profile cases, a lot of which are coming from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Right. We're getting a lot of people who are invested in justice and what criminal justice is and true crime. And so I wouldn't be surprised if this continues to happen with other cases. But it's not uncommon to call a witness or add a witness to the list, especially when the witness list is already so long. But it sounds like she has relevant information. Right. And so that's what the key thing here is, having a witness that has relevant information. And there's also the civil lawsuit that's pending as well. And so if there's information that she can combat, especially the witnesses we saw today, I can see Judge Sullivan allowing her to come and testify.
- [19:48]
E
I see it as part of the civil suit. I mean, there I can see the context of what I'm still trying to figure out. If you undermine McClain and that undermines, I guess, the treatment she got.
- [19:58]
H
So then it's not necessarily the treatment. Again, credibility is a huge thing in this case. So if you don't believe the credible information that we're receiving from the witness, then you don't believe that witness. Right. So if you have another witness who can give you more information that, hey, that's not actually what happened, then you can weigh the information you received from the other witness.
- [20:18]
A
Just to put a button on that, Kevin Redington's private investigator found that video on TikTok and then ultimately reached. Reached out to Emily Thorndike. Stay with us for continuing coverage of the Lindsey Clancy trial. And if you have a question we want to hear from you, you can submit questions to commonwealth.confidential@nbcuni.com and if you
- [20:34]
E
or someone you know is in crisis, call 988 to reach the suicide and crisis Lifeline. You can also check out 988lifeline.org and a reminder.
- [20:44]
A
If you are pregnant or a new mother and are in crisis, the National Maternal Mental Health Hotline provides free confidential support 24. 7 in English and Spanish. Call or text the hotline at the number on your screen. Have a great weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday.
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