Eli Rosenberg (2:21)

That civil case against Reid and two Canton bars seeks at least $50,000. In November of last year, a judge putting Reid's deposition as part of that on hold until this criminal case conclud.

Morgietta Dossier (2:34)

What they could argue is that because she was convicted on the oui, the chain of events that occurred to her drinking and driving could have led to the death of John o' Keefe.

Eli Rosenberg (2:50)

All right, so with the criminal case now done, the depositions in the civil case can proceed per that judge's order from last year. A civil case that people around here no doubt will be watching closely live in Data. Mili Rosenberg, NBC10 Boston.

J.C. Monahan (3:07)

All right, Eli. Now back with us tonight is defense attorney Morgia Dossier, who spoke to Eli Rosenberg earlier because we can't get enough morgietta. So thank you so much. We do know Karen Reid is free. She is out. There is no more trial criminally hanging over her head. The question is, we talked about defense strategy of adding that oui charge which happened late in the game, that they added a charge, the defense team added a charge. Do you think if they hadn't done that, would we still be on jury watch?

Morgietta Dossier (3:35)

We would still be on jury watch because remember, jurors are just like you and I. They spent two months on this trial, long, exhausting. And they didn't have an opportunity to speak to each other at all. So the juror, the defense team gave them a soft landing, which was the oui right, because the jury knows that there's a lot at stake here. They know that they want to have something happen. And it was low hanging fruit. It was easy for them to choose. And I'm almost positive it was a game day decision by the defense to add it in. I don't think that's something that they thought of from the beginning. But after watching the clips, I'm sure they said, all right, let's see if we can convince the jury on one thing. And it worked.

Glenn Jones (4:16)

Credit to you. The day it went on the verdict slip, you said that is the root.

Morgietta Dossier (4:19)

Out of this because you could see it once you read the jury slipped and you saw what the options were and you looked at the clips, the closing arguments were powerful. You could clearly see that it was pointing towards that oui charge.

Glenn Jones (4:33)

In the hours after the verdict was announced, our cameras found Karen Reed in the seaport celebrating with her friends and family. She told reporters she was happy, relieved and said this to our Jericho Tran when asked about the o' Keeffes. Any words for the o' Keeffe family?

J.C. Monahan (4:48)

I fought for John o' Keeffe harder than anyone. Harder than anyone.

Glenn Jones (4:54)

We also found members of her defense team, attorneys David Gannetti and Robert Alessi, celebrating outside their hotel. Post trial. They shared these words with us.

David Gannetti (5:03)

The biggest fear was a mistrial and thank God that didn't happen.

Robert Alessi (5:06)

When you have truth and justice on your side. You're going to ultimately prevail.

Glenn Jones (5:12)

Now, Morgietta, we have to say we haven't heard much, almost nothing from Michael Morrissey, the district attorney, who of course made the decision to retry this case. And then in the last hour, we've heard here that his opponent in the race for Norfolk County DA has called for him to resign, Juna Perkins. So let's kind of break this apart. First off, he is ultimately accountable to the voters of Norfolk County. Should we have heard from him by now?

Morgietta Dossier (5:40)

I think it would have been appropriate. I think there was a brief statement that he made to the public about the case, but I think he could have made a little bit more of a statement, not only to the o' Keefe family because they're looking for some kind of answers at this point. Right. They've gone through two very expensive trials, not necessarily from their pockets, but from the taxpayer pockets. And they still don't have the answers that they were really looking for, which is the death of their loved one. And so I think a longer statement could have come from the district attorney and it's a little bit unfortunate, but he's also in a bind. What do you say at this point? You know, you hired a special prosecutor. You know, you did everything that you think you could have done. So maybe in the future we'll see another statement. But what do you say at this point?

J.C. Monahan (6:24)

You say it's like a no win situation. No win for an elected official. Yeah, I understand that. All right, Morgana, don't go anywhere. We did actually. We asked NBC 10 investigator Brian Kath to try and talk with Morrissey to get reaction to the Reid verdict. Take a look.

David Gannetti (6:38)

It's now been more than 24 hours since the verdict in the Karen Reed trial and there's still nothing but silence from Norfolk District Attorney Michael Morrissey. Because of the Juneteenth holiday, the office is closed today and despite a number of calls and emails to the DA spokesperson, we've received no statement. We also tried the DA at his home and also checked a couple of area Juneteenth events to see if he made any appearances. No luck there. Now, from a legal, a strategy, a cost standpoint, Morrissey's biggest decision was bringing in special prosecutor Hank Brennan for the second trial. As we told you yesterday, Brennan Stanton, upwards of a half million dollars of taxpayer money for trying that case. We'll of course keep trying to get some sort of comment from the Norfolk DA and let you know when he breaks his Silence. Back to you.

Jason (7:27)

In our deliberations, we had decided there was enough evidence and proof that she was driving under the influence. There's a mix of some people think that she was definitely innocent, and the other people, there was a lot of reasonable doubt, at least to where you can't. We didn't want to convict her.

J.C. Monahan (7:46)

That was one of the 12 jurors speaking out today on TMZ. And joining us now to talk about it is our courtroom insider, Sue o' Connell. Sue, you gave us daily updates on the jury, tried to read. He didn't understand what they may be thinking or going through. What did you think of the first juror to step out, Juror number four, Jason, what he had to say?

Robert Alessi (8:03)

Well, it freaked me out to see him actually speaking. I mean, you look at somebody for 40 days and, you know, they don't give you anything. And then suddenly he's an actual human who can speak in sentences. And I think what he articulated actually was what many of us saw from the outside, this slimmed down argument on both sides. Right. As we've heard, the prosecution, she drank, she drove, she was reckless, she left John to die. And on the defense side, there's not enough evidence to prove any of that, for the most part. Right. So to your point, Morgietta, and to the defense team, they found that hook of the oui. And as he expressed, if we take him at his word, which I believe, you know, some people thought there was no collision. Some people thought maybe there was manslaughter, maybe there was a collision, but the prosecution didn't prove it. So I think this all around was the best case scenario. I know this is a travesty for the o' Keeffes, but he reacted to what the evidence was in the courtroom, which he also said later in the interview. So I applaud the jurors, and I think he is expressing what we saw happen.

Glenn Jones (9:06)

Can you match him up to what your description of him in the courthouse was during those 40 days? Like one of the ferocious note takers?

Morgietta Dossier (9:15)

Yes.

Robert Alessi (9:15)

No. He was a sometimes note taker, always paid attention. He was the one who was sitting closest to the witness stand. He had. There were two giggle outbursts I reported. He was involved in both of them.

Glenn Jones (9:26)

A giggler?

Robert Alessi (9:27)

Yeah, he was a giggle, but it had nothing to do with what was happening in the courtroom. I think it was just during a sidebar, and he got moved after there was a conversation about not talking to people about the trial. He swapped out with someone else. He also wore shorts sometimes. You might have noticed.

Glenn Jones (9:41)

I remember you saying so.

Robert Alessi (9:43)

So he. Absolutely. And I don't think that we reported this. A few times he popped up out of his chair at the beginning of the trial and he. Because you could stretch, remember, the judge would say, yes, jurors take a moment to stretch. And a couple of times the back of his head got on the stream and we're not supposed to show the jurors. And so we all reacted and they moved the camera and the photographer. So, yes, he is vividly, you know, implanted on my brain.

J.C. Monahan (10:09)

Well, again, 40 days you were staring at those 12, actually 18 faces. Morgieto, what did you think about what juror number four had to say?

Morgietta Dossier (10:17)

I really liked what he had to say. He was very honest. He talked about the investigation and I think a lot of us on this panel and other experts talked about the investigation. I think I've said it before, maybe not on this platform. You can't have a murder trial without a proper murder investigation. You just can't have the two. And because there are so many holes in this investigation, how do you lead a jury to convict somebody on a murder charge when the investigation itself had so many holes in it? So the reasonable doubt was clearly there. The closing argument probably sealed the deal for that juror. And he's talking honestly about we could only go based upon the evidence we saw. Now, everyone out here, we were doing the Twitter and all the Googling, but he only had what was in front of him and he expressed it perfectly.

Glenn Jones (11:04)

All right, let's listen to a little bit more. During his interview, Jason said the video evidence was taken into account heavily, particularly to decide if a collision took place. Here was his opinion.

Jason (11:15)

I don't know how John o' Keeffe died and I do not believe that there was a collision between the SUV and John o' Keefe.

Glenn Jones (11:23)

If you want to hear more from Jason's interview, it will air in full on TMZ Live today. So as you just heard, Jason, the juror has no idea how John o' Keefe died. And I guess he was also explaining that in his opinion, some of the other jurors were more along the lines of the commonwealth did not pre this beyond a reasonable doubt. Like they seemed at least open to the idea that maybe John o' Keefe was somehow injured by Karen Reid. That's really telling, I think, to where this case ended up.

Robert Alessi (11:57)

Yeah, I mean, this is the battle we talked about, the battling experts. Are the jurors going to say, I don't understand any of Any of this. So I'm going to get rid of it. What we now see, I think it's safe to say that they believed ARCA and at least or didn't believe the Commonwealth witness did enough to prove there was a collision, Correct?

Glenn Jones (12:16)

Yeah.

Morgietta Dossier (12:17)

And I think the important thing that we saw in this trial, that we didn't see in the first trial was the video. I think at one point you said there was a sidebar and the video was in a loop in the background, and they used their own imagination. If I was hit by a car, if someone was hit by a car, wouldn't you see damages? Wouldn't she? Broken bones. So that's something that we didn't have in the first trial. So regardless of what the expert says, they went in the deliberation room and watched the video for themselves. And if they couldn't come to a conclusion, then how could you find her guilty or how could you say there was a collision?

Glenn Jones (12:47)

Yesterday's verdict guaranteed this case cannot be tried again. But Karen Reid still has another legal battle ahead. She is facing a wrongful death lawsuit that's a civil case filed by the o' Keeffe family last summer. And with that, we have some viewer questions. Lisa wants to know, Morgieta, what is the difference between a criminal and civil case?

Morgietta Dossier (13:06)

So the main difference, obviously, in a criminal case, you can go to jail, possibly that's an outcome. In a civil case, you're talking about damages, which is monetary or some sort of reprimand for causing or having a liability. So the civil case is going to surround a liability issue. What we have here, though, is no conviction on the criminal case. So it's definitely going to weaken whatever the wrongful death suit is. However, the standard of proof is much, much, much, much lower in a civil case. So the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence, which only means is it more likely than not that Karen Reed had something to do with the chain of events that caused John o' Keeffe's death? Maybe yes, maybe no. So it's not that high burden that they have to prove in a criminal case and typically in civil cases, because civil cases can go on much longer than three and a half years.

J.C. Monahan (13:59)

That's incredible.

Morgietta Dossier (14:01)

Trust me. Because of all the exchanges that lawyers do back and forth can go on. We've had cases in our house for five years, civil cases. Right. So most people get to a point where they want to settle. Right. Because at this point, unfortunately, the o' Keeffe family's not going to get the answers on their death. So now they're looking for some sort of remedy, some sort of punitive outlet and that comes in the form of, unfortunately, money. And if that's what they're looking for, most good attorneys are going to have them settle.

J.C. Monahan (14:27)

All right, Morgieta Su, thank you so much. Stay with us because when we come back, we'll talk about the high interest in this case with a local author, Dave Wedge.

Glenn Jones (14:35)

But first, since you watch this program, you'll probably want to watch Dateline tonight. Did you crack the tail light to.

J.C. Monahan (14:42)

Make it look a certain way?

Morgietta Dossier (14:44)

Absolutely not.

J.C. Monahan (14:45)

Did you find frame Karen Reed?

Eli Rosenberg (14:47)

Absolutely not.

Glenn Jones (14:48)

Tonight's episode is all about the Karen Reed case. And as you just saw, they talked to former state trooper Michael Proctor who testified in the first retrial but not the second.

J.C. Monahan (14:58)

Be sure to tune in tonight at 9pm for the special two hour broadcast taking you through all the twists and turns of the Karen Reed murder case. It's called center of the Storm. You're watching Canton Confidential, the Karen Reed murder trial.

Glenn Jones (15:14)

Karen Reed has been acquitted in the murder of her boyfriend John O' Keefe.

Sue O'Connell (15:19)

Nobody covers the Karen Reed trial like NBC 10 Boston.

J.C. Monahan (15:22)

I could not be standing here without.

Sue O'Connell (15:25)

These amazing supporters in the courtroom and outside the courthouse.

J.C. Monahan (15:30)

This is nothing like we saw in the first trial.

Robert Alessi (15:31)

It's not a television show.

Sue O'Connell (15:33)

It's real life, unmatched team coverage.

J.C. Monahan (15:35)

It really is nothing typical when it comes to this.

Sue O'Connell (15:38)

Every major story story, we're on it.

Glenn Jones (15:40)

NBC 10 Boston news worthy of you.

J.C. Monahan (15:56)

It was hard not to notice the gathering of Karen Reid supporters outside the courthouse yesterday. It wasn't unusual. However, this case has drawn a lot of interest over the last few years. Here, let's take a look at the crowd during Karen Reid's first trial.

Glenn Jones (16:11)

Yeah, you know, that crowd in the second trial was very disciplined. We want to welcome into the conversation Dave Wedge who is joining us for the first time on Canton Confidential. It's so good to have you here for some background. Dave is an author on the New York Times best sellers list. Here's some examples of his work. He's written and co written plenty of others. And in the works is a book about the Karen Reid case. All right, Dave, I know for your works you need an X factor before you start working on it. What's the X factor in this story?

Sue O'Connell (16:41)

Well, you know, look, I started looking into this case back in 22 when it happened. I got some calls pretty early on that people like you got to look at this case. It's A pretty wild case. And then the stuff started tumbling out about the potential for corruption. And something else happened. And I tabled it for a little while. And I did another book, which came out Tuesday, sports book, about Marvin Hagler, the boxer. And I revisited it shortly before the second trial. And I started getting back into it. I started covering some of the hearings, researching it some more. And as I dug and dug and dug like everybody else, I saw the things that we've all seen. It's just there's this really unique sense with this case where people feel a connection to it locally. But now nationally, everyone looks at this case like, wow, that could be me. Whether you're one of the people that was in that house that night, or your Karen Reed or your brother is John o' Keefe, or you have police officer friends or relatives. And I just think the case resonates with people across the spectrum in this country. And it's really just been an incredible thing to watch.

J.C. Monahan (17:41)

I know you're just getting going on this, but what is the process like? Do you reach out and interview people? Are you doing anecdotally what you've experienced and seen over the last couple of years?

Sue O'Connell (17:50)

So, you know, I was a reporter at the Boston Herald for 14 years. So the way I do all my books is I hit the streets, you know, and I start to interview people that maybe other people don't know about. You know, I try to find the story behind the story. The people that are not out there on the cameras all the time, not out there on Twitter, not out there talking all the time, the people that really know these people. And that's what I've done with all my books, and that's what I'm doing here. That said, I am talking to people intimately connected, some of the major players that we've all seen, you know, on both sides. And it's really important for me. As you know, I have a journalism background. I want to tell a great story, but it's got to be factually accurate. And that's what I do with all my books.

Glenn Jones (18:26)

When you've watched some of the chaos, that's going to be my sort of subjective word around this case because there's been so much noise. What do you think this means for murder trials in the future? Or is this a very individual case that's not going to be replicated with some of the other things we've seen around it?

Sue O'Connell (18:44)

No, I think this case is a game changer in a lot of ways. You know, I think if you think Back to, you know, people make a lot of parallels with this case to O.J. you know, obviously Karen Reid is not O.J. simpson. She wasn't famous before this. But what is similar is the way it captivated the nation and it captivated the nation for the reasons that I just described. That everyone feels some sort of connection, like that could have been me or that could have been my brother. But I think the social media aspect, we've never seen a trial really in this country that's risen to this level. It was all social media driven.

J.C. Monahan (19:15)

And if it's just like the cable Networks came after O.J. simpson.

Sue O'Connell (19:18)

Exactly.

J.C. Monahan (19:18)

TV came and all of those 24 hour streaming.

Glenn Jones (19:21)

Yeah. This is a more modern day version of that.

J.C. Monahan (19:23)

That's. It's just moving it forward. I just wanted to ask you did a book on Whitey Bulger. Hank Brennan defended Whitey Bulger. You're now going to do a book where Hank Brennan is at the prosecutor's table. How does that warp your mind?

Sue O'Connell (19:35)

It was a little funny when I saw that they appointed him as the special prosecutor because, you know, we tried to talk to Hank for the Whitey book and he wasn't interested in talking to us. But we did talk to one of Whitey's other lawyers, Jay Carney. So maybe Hank will talk to me, maybe he won't. I'm sure he's not in the mood today, but I'd like to talk to him, you know, and I think, you know, he's a talented lawyer. You know, people can say what they want about this case and how it went. But Hank is, you know, he's no slouch. You know, he's a good lawyer. He's a smart guy, very tough case all around. You know, there's so many questions, as we all know, really, about what happened. I don't know if we'll ever know the truth.

Glenn Jones (20:10)

You got to tell us, when can we expect this book to be finished?

Sue O'Connell (20:14)

So I'm, I'm literally starting the writing process as we speak. I started doing the research in January, but as I said, I was already on it, like gathering yarn for the story as I went along. Next year, you know. Okay, 26, I think, maybe spring, summer.

Glenn Jones (20:29)

We'll be looking for it.

J.C. Monahan (20:30)

Absolutely.

Glenn Jones (20:31)

So good to have you.

J.C. Monahan (20:32)

We know you're going to do the research, you know, to get a great story.

Sue O'Connell (20:35)

I'll do my best.

Morgietta Dossier (20:36)

Dave West.

Glenn Jones (20:36)

All right, thanks a lot, Dave. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. It's been great to have you with.

J.C. Monahan (20:40)

Us all along in this trial you're watching Canton Confidential. The Karen Reed murder trial.