Ep. 4: Who is Bryan Kohberger?

Summary

The King Road Killings: An Idaho Murder Mystery Episode 4: Who is Bryan Kohberger? Release Date: June 28, 2023
Host/Author: ABC News
Host/Producer: Kayna Whitworth

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Introduction

In Episode 4 of The King Road Killings: An Idaho Murder Mystery, ABC News Correspondent Kayna Whitworth delves deep into the life of Bryan Kohberger, the criminology PhD student charged with the brutal murders of four University of Idaho students in December 2022. This episode aims to humanize Kohberger by exploring his background, personality, and the events leading up to his arrest, moving beyond the courtroom images to uncover the man behind the charges.

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Early Life and Family Background

Bryan Kohberger was born on November 21, 1994, to Mary Ann and Michael Kohberger, the youngest of three siblings. Growing up in the Pocono region of eastern Pennsylvania, Bryan's childhood was marked by financial struggles, with his family filing for bankruptcy twice—once when he was a baby and again in 2010. Both of his parents worked for the local Pleasant Valley School District; his father as a maintenance worker and his mother as a substitute teacher and special needs educator.

Casey Arntz, a childhood friend, recalls Bryan's mother, Marianne, as “the sweetest woman ever” ([05:08]). Marianne was actively engaged in local social and political issues, often writing letters to the editor opposing war, abortion, and the death penalty while advocating for gun regulation.

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Teenage Years: Struggles and Personality

During his teenage years, Bryan began experiencing a rare medical condition known as visual snow, which causes persistent visual disturbances like flickering dots. This condition not only affected his vision but also contributed to anxiety, depression, and dissociative episodes. Bryan actively participated in online forums such as Tapatok to seek treatments, revealing his struggle with the condition through posts like:

“Being me is this horrible disease that I was given... It is as if the ringing in my ears and the fuzz in my vision is simply all of the demons in my head mocking me.” ([07:00])

To cope, Bryan adopted a strict diet eliminating grains, sugars, and yeast, which led to significant weight loss. Casey Arntz observes:

“He did lose all the weight. He came back and he looked really thin. A lot different. It was kind of surprising for a lot of people.” ([09:04])

His engagement in kickboxing and night runs with friends was encouraged by his father to build social skills and self-esteem. However, during this period, Bryan also began using heroin, which marked a significant shift in his behavior and relationships.

Thomas Arntz, Casey’s brother and Bryan's high school classmate, describes Bryan’s increasingly aggressive behavior:

“He would just grapple me and put me in headlocks and arm bars and stuff like that.” ([11:04])

Bryan's substance abuse further strained his friendships, leading to fractured relationships characterized by manipulation and gaslighting.

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College Years: Academic Pursuits and Social Dynamics

After graduating from Pleasant Valley High School in 2013, Bryan worked various customer service jobs before pursuing higher education. He earned an associate's degree in Psychology from Northampton Community College, where he excelled academically, making the Dean’s List and joining the Community College National Honor Society.

Transfering to DeSales University in 2018, Bryan shifted his focus to criminal justice. His dedication was evident; he was recognized for saving a school monitor’s life by retrieving a defibrillator during an emergency incident ([15:00]). Despite these commendable actions, Bryan's social interactions remained limited.

At DeSales, Casey Arntz recounts reuniting with Bryan:

“He just seemed to be really, really good.” ([15:58])

In 2020, Bryan completed his Bachelor's degree and began a master's program in criminal justice, earning his degree in June 2022. His professors, including Professor Michelle Bulger, viewed him as brilliant and a top student, though somewhat reserved in personal interactions.

Bryan's academic interests included understanding the psychology behind criminal behavior, evidenced by his thesis research, which involved surveying individuals about their motivations and emotions related to committing crimes. This research attracted media attention and online speculation regarding a potential motive for the King Road killings, although Professor Bulger clarified it was a standard academic pursuit:

“It looks weird from the public view, but in criminology, it's a normal theory on how and why criminals commit their crime.” ([14:55])

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Graduate Studies and Behavioral Shifts

In Fall 2022, Bryan began his PhD at Washington State University (WSU) near Moscow, Idaho, alongside continuing his security job with the Pleasant Valley School District. Despite his professional aspirations, Bryan faced challenges in his graduate program. Reports from his peers painted a picture of a difficult and often unpleasant individual. Thomas Arntz describes Bryan as:

“Mean in high school, eager to be seen as dominant.” ([11:04])

Bryan’s interactions with female professors were particularly problematic. His peers maintained a "Brian Tally," documenting instances where he interrupted or showed disrespect towards female faculty members. This culminated in several confrontations that led to him losing his teaching assistant position, resulting in the loss of his tuition waiver and stipend.

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Final Months Before the Arrest

The months leading up to Bryan’s arrest were marked by increasing isolation and behavioral changes. In November 2022, coinciding with the timing of the murders, Bryan was involved in an altercation with a professor at WSU. Following this, his demeanor seemed to shift; his grading became unusually lenient, and he appeared more disheveled.

Hayden Stinchfield, a former student and teaching assistant, notes a significant change:

“Our midterm was right at the end of September...then we didn't have any other graded assignments until early December.” ([26:16])

On December 13, 2022, Bryan and his father embarked on a road trip from Idaho back to Pennsylvania. During this journey, Bryan was pulled over twice within nine minutes, though these stops were unrelated to the murder investigation. Shortly after arriving home, FBI agents surveilled the family home, eventually arresting Bryan on December 30, 2022.

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The Arrest and Immediate Aftermath

Law enforcement linked Bryan to the murders through DNA evidence found on a knife sheath at the crime scene and DNA samples from the family's garbage bags. During the arrest, Bryan was found wearing gloves and was apprehended while descending the stairs toward his bedroom.

ABC News conducted a ride-along with Sergeant Sproat, who expressed his gut feeling that Bryan was still in the area even after their initial traffic stops. Following his arrest, Bryan was held in Monroe County Jail and signed a document acknowledging that returning to the WSU campus would result in criminal trespassing charges.

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Character Assessments and Legal Perspectives

Legal experts like Jason Lebar, Bryan’s former public defender, express concern over the public’s judgment:

“He’s undoubtedly being tried in the court of public opinion.” ([38:17])

The gag order issued by an Idaho judge aims to ensure a fair trial by restricting public discussions about the case. Despite these restrictions, media coverage and public speculation have painted a largely negative image of Bryan, with few, if any, voices defending his character.

Lewar emphasizes the challenges of connecting academic interests to criminal actions:

“People had asked...I mean, certainly it’s a factor, but how much of a factor to me is very minimal.” ([40:26])

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Conclusion and Looking Forward

Bryan Kohberger’s trial is set for early October, with prosecutors seeking the death penalty. The defense team is preparing to challenge the evidence, highlighting the lack of direct DNA links between Bryan and the victims within his personal spaces. As the community grapples with the tragedy, the episode underscores the complexities of character assessment and the profound impact of public perception on legal proceedings.

In the next episode, ABC News plans to further investigate the evidence for and against Bryan Kohberger, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the case as it unfolds.

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Notable Quotes

• Casey Arntz: “One of the last things he said to me is I love you guys...so at the time it was really endearing. Now it's kind of creepy.” ([01:39])
• Thomas Arntz: “He would just grapple me and put me in headlocks and arm bars and stuff like that.” ([11:04])
• Hayden Stinchfield: “We felt like when we did that, our grades got better.” ([26:16])
• Jason Lebar: “DNA is great at telling us who it is, terrible at telling us how.” ([41:51])

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Production Credits

• Written and Produced by: Timmy Truong, Meg Fierro, Vika Aronson, Kayna Whitworth
• Supervising Producer: Sasha Islanian
• Story Editor: Tracy Samuelson
• Fact Checker: Amirah Williams
• Original Music: Soundboard
• Mixing: Rick Kwan
• Social Media Producer: Ariel Chester
• Special Thanks: Lisa Soloway, Sean Dooley, Josh Margolin, Sasha Pesnik, Santina Lucci, John Capel, Nick Cerrone, Kayla Klass, Olivia Osteen, Liz Alessi
• Director of Podcast Programming: Josh Cohan
• Executive Producer: Laura Mayer

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The King Road Killings is a production of ABC Audio. For more insightful reporting, please subscribe to the podcast and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Transcript

[Casey Arntz]

I met Brian when I was in 11th grade. He was two years behind me, but he was friends with my brother. I kind of got implemented into their friend group because we always hung out at my parents house.

[Kayna Whitworth]

That's Casey Arntz, who went to Pleasant Valley High School in eastern Pennsylvania. During her time there, she and her little brother hung out with a kid named Brian Coburger. There was a bit of an age gap, two grades between them, but she described an easy friendship.

[Casey Arntz]

He didn't ever strike me as weird. I mean, I was a weird kid in high school. So I felt like he's the same as me. We would laugh, we would talk, take walks around the neighborhood, play some games like he was just another normal kid. To me, there's nothing that really stood out about him. People on Facebook that went to Pleasant Valley, they have come out and said that he was very quiet, very withdrawn. I never saw that side of him.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Sure, maybe Brian was a little awkward. Casey says he was picked on because he was overweight and that it took him a bit longer to warm up to people he didn't know very well. But she also says he was a happy kid who was fun to be.

[Casey Arntz]

Around me and around my other friends. He was outgoing. I felt like he was safe with us. Maybe in his eyes he just felt like he could be himself.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Casey says she and the rest of Brian's friend group were incredibly important to him and were probably among the people who knew him best at the time. The two stayed friends throughout high school, but lost touch when Casey moved out of state.

[Casey Arntz]

One of the last things he said to me is I love you guys, meeting our friend group and I will always love you guys even if we stop talking one day. So at the time it was really endearing. Now it's kind of creepy.

[Kayna Whitworth]

On December 30, 2022, Brian Kohberger, a 28 year old PhD student in criminology, was arrested and charged with the murders of Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin, Zannah Kernodle and Kaylee Gonzalez, the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death inside their King Road home. Prosecutors announced this week they intend to seek the death penalty. I'm Kayna Whitworth. I'm a correspondent with ABC News and I've been covering this case since the day after their bodies were discovered. In our previous episodes, we've learned about the victims, discussed the fallout from the crime, and traced the investigation conducted by authorities as they hunted for the killer. In this episode, we're turning our attention to the suspect Bryan Kohberger who maintains his innocence. We will do our best to move beyond images of Kohberger, the inmate in an orange jumpsuit, and try and get to know who he was before he was charged with these murders. Despite numerous interview requests, we haven't been able to speak with Bryan Kohberger or his family. But we will hear from people who knew him in his teenage years, in college and right before he was arrested last December. There's the co Burger who helps save a colleague's life, and the co Burger who makes co workers feel uncomfortable, even fearful. There's a co Burger who succeeds in school, is passionate about his classes, and impresses his professors. Then there's the co Burger who clashes with people in his graduate program and loses his teaching job. This is the King road killings. Episode 4. Who is Bryan Kohberger? Let's start at the beginning. Brian was born on November 21, 1994, to Mary Ann and Michael Kohberger. Brian was the baby of the family with two older sisters, Amanda and Melissa. They spent their childhoods in the Pocono region of eastern Pennsylvania. It's a rural, outdoorsy place about two hours from New York City, known for its mountains and rivers. People ski in the winter and fish, raft or hike in the summer. The family wasn't well off financially. In fact, records show that the couple filed for bankruptcy twice. Once in 1995 when Brian was a baby, and again in 2010. During his teenage years, both Michael and Marianne worked for the local Pleasant Valley School district. Michael spent over a decade as a maintenance worker, while Marianne was an educator, a substitute teacher who also worked with special needs students. Here's Casey again.

[Casey Arntz]

She was the sweetest woman ever. I still remember distinctly what she wore. She had these high waist belts, poofy hair. It's funny because I guess when Brian had mentioned me to his mom at one point, she still remembered me years later. And that says a lot for someone who's a substitute teacher and can remember her kids. So she was just. She's a lovely woman, and my heart really feels for her in this situation.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Marianne frequently wrote letters to the editor of the local paper on a range of social and political issues. She was opposed to war, abortion, and the death penalty, and in favor of gun regulation. In his teenage years, we start to see Brian expressing himself online, too. The earliest writings we could find deal with a medical condition he says he developed around the age of 14, something called visual snow. It's a rare medical condition that causes people to see flickering dots for about 60% of patients. The disorder comes on suddenly and can have huge implications for quality of life. Imagine your field of vision suddenly crowded with static, like a bad TV picture. Visual snow can also be linked to other symptoms like ringing in the ears, anxiety, depression, trouble sleeping, and even dissociative episodes. That's when the world around you doesn't feel real. There's no known cure for visual snow, so many people with the condition are constantly on the hunt for new ways to keep symptoms at bay, sometimes communicating on online message boards to swap tips on what treatments work for them. Brian has been linked to an account on one such forum called Tapatok, where he made dozens of posts recounting his battle with visual snow. In a post From January of 2011, 16 year old Brian writes, I have had VS since September 21st of 2009. Since then I have changed mainly from the anxiety and sense of derealization and hopelessness. The derealization he describes is the sensation of feeling detached from your surroundings, like you're in a dream or a fog. In another post he writes, being me is this horrible disease that I was given. I think of this as I succumb to sleep, but I see a large intensity of black, yellow, white fuzz. It makes my mind fizzle and I can barely keep in the bounds of reality. It is as if the ringing in my ears and the fuzz in my vision is simply all of the demons in my head mocking me. I fall asleep, but I wake up quickly to bloody screams. Is any of this here? Am I brain damaged? No? Then why am I like this? We found another online account that ABC has confirmed to be Brian's a SoundCloud account where in September of 2011 he posted a single track, an angsty rap song called Rise Up.

[Thomas Arntz]

Always the same thing that disrupts my life. Wonder when I'll change I guess when the time is right Procrastinating my deranged to change would be a fight so I'm passing fist like I'm afraid to get a bunny fist. Look at this. My mind is pissed and I keep running. Why is this?

[Kayna Whitworth]

Eventually, Brian seemed to find a solution that helped deal with his visual a very specific diet that involved cutting out grains, sugars and yeast. He followed this diet to the letter and excitedly shared his progress on tap attack in the hopes of helping others curb their own symptoms. Around this time, those who knew Brian noticed a dramatic change in his appearance. Here's Casey again.

[Casey Arntz]

In Brian's senior year, he did lose all the weight. He came back and he looked really thin. A Lot different. It was kind of surprising for a lot of people.

[Kayna Whitworth]

His rapid weight loss could be linked to several things. His new diet or a change in his workout regimen.

[Casey Arntz]

He did kickboxing. I found out he was doing night runs with an old friend of mine.

[Kayna Whitworth]

ABC News spoke with his old boxing coach who remembered a teenage co Burger coming into the gym nearly every day in high school. According to the coach, Coburger's dad brought him in to, quote, get Brian out, get him more social and get involved with other people. The coach added, Brian's dad was worried his son didn't have a lot of other opportunities to socialize or build self esteem and strength. Over time, the coach said, he saw Kohberger gain confidence. He said he worked hard to achieve his goals and seemed to feel more accepted at the gym. But around this time, friends of his tell us that Brian also started using heroin. Casey says he would ask her for rides that she later found out were to buy drugs.

[Casey Arntz]

Brian used me to, you know, drive him around and get heroin. And I didn't know. He then told me he was in rehab. A lot of people are like, well, why were you still friends with him after that? And I'm like, because you gotta forgive him. I mean, you can't fault him for being so sucked down this hole. And I did. I did forgive him. We talked after that. This was like, I think when he used me was in 2013, and we still talked for a good year after that.

[Kayna Whitworth]

The drug use coincided with a major shift in personality that really affected Kohberger's relationships. I reported on some of this when I was out in Pennsylvania talking with anyone I could find who knew him. Tonight, Bryan Kohberger's childhood friend. Thomas, speaking to ABC News, describing the Idaho murder suspect as mean in high school, saying Brian was eager to be seen as dominant.

[Thomas Arntz]

He would just like, put me. He would, like, grapple me and like put me in headlocks and arm bars and stuff like that.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Thomas Arntz is Casey's brother, and he was Brian Coburger's classmate.

[Casey Arntz]

Brian would gaslight my brother a lot when they argued. He would put my brother into headlocks to the point where my brother just got so tired and fed up with it that he stopped being friends with him in like 2015. I think he said he was. He just had to cut him out.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Brian Coburger and Thomas arent graduated from high school in the spring of 2013, and their friendship ended two years later. By this time, Brian and Casey had already lost touch. Dominic Sheld is just a few years older than Coburger, although the two were never close friends. For a while they ran in the same circles, attending many of the same parties. In high school. You ran into him in some of these drug circles when he would have been about 17?

[Thomas Arntz]

Yep.

[Kayna Whitworth]

And what kind of drugs were you using?

[Dominic Sheld]

Heroin.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Dom, as he likes to be called, is also in recovery and has been sober for many years now. And is that what he would have been using also?

[Dominic Sheld]

Most likely. If he was in that scene with us, then, yeah.

[Kayna Whitworth]

And how do you remember him at those parties?

[Dominic Sheld]

Withdrawn, kept to himself. He would, you know, interact with whoever he was sitting on the couch with or sitting on the sidelines with.

[Kayna Whitworth]

So you wouldn't describe him as a loner at that point?

[Dominic Sheld]

No, not a loner. He did have friends. He was at these parties with people. He didn't come alone. He normally came with other people. But he was very just like on the outside. Wasn't involved in the social playing pool, listening to music, dancing, talking. He was more just quiet and kept to himself.

[Kayna Whitworth]

We know from court documents that Kohberger went through treatment for drug abuse and he seemed to turn a corner. He had big aspirations for himself professionally. He picked back up on an earlier interest in protecting his community and pursuing a career in law enforcement. Here's Casey again.

[Casey Arntz]

I think he just kind of wanted to understand other people's minds. Maybe he wanted to find a way to get justice for people.

[Kayna Whitworth]

A yearbook photo taken in his sophomore year of high school shows him doing push ups with a group of other young men as part of a law enforcement prep class. The caption mentions that he wants to serve in the Army Rangers, a special operations branch of the U.S. military. Kohberger graduated from Pleasant Valley High School in 2013 and after working at a couple of customer service jobs, he applied for a security guard position with the school district. According to Fox News, Kohberger listed his year of law enforcement training on the application adding, I. I box after school every day and I'm still a runner. I believe dedication and perseverance are the most important skills learned from my activities. I lost 130lbs at age 15 into 16 whilst attending school at PVHS. I believe this is proof that I have the required dedication to be successful. Kohberger was hired by the school district in 2016, where he worked his way up from casual to part time security guard. Kohberger enrolled in Northampton Community College where he earned an associate's degree in Psychology. In 2018. Coburger made the Dean's list at one point and was a member of the Community College National Honor Society in psychology. In 2018, he transferred to DeSales University, a private Catholic university near his parents house. According to the school, he initially studied psychology but then shifted his focus to criminal justice, one of the most popular programs for incoming students. A DeSales promotional video on YouTube describes.

[Casey Arntz]

The program for example, we have a new track in digital forensics that allows students to prepare for working in a field that actually evaluates cell phones, computers, iPads and other electronic devices that are used during the commission of a crime.

[Kayna Whitworth]

While he was at DeSales, Kohberger continued working his security job with the Pleasant Valley school district. In 2018, he was named in the local newspaper, the Pocono Record, for helping to save the life of a school monitor who suddenly had trouble breathing as she patrolled the hallways. The article credits Kohberger with quickly running to retrieve the school's defibrillator while another security guard performed cpr. Kohberger and his colleague were able to keep the woman alive until emergency responders arrived and took over. Although his friend Casey ultimately lost touch with Kohberger after high school, the two ran into each other once as adults at a friend's wedding in 2017.

[Casey Arntz]

Seeing him was surprising in a good way because he just looked so much cleaner. He looked just. He looked good. I remember giving him a really big hug and I just told him how proud I was of him. And he was talking about how he was a security guard at a school, which I then found out was Pleasant Valley where we went, and he was going to school for criminal justice and he just seemed to just be really, really good.

[Kayna Whitworth]

In 2020, Kohberger was awarded his Bachelor's degree from DeSales and began pursuing his master's in criminal justice through their online program. Kohberger appears to have been a good student and was particularly well liked by Professor Michelle Bulger, a criminology instructor at DeSales. ABC News reached out to Professor Bolger numerous times, but she declined to speak with us. She did speak to the Daily Mail about her interactions with Kohberger, reportedly describing him as brilliant, a great writer, and one of my best students ever. In fact, Kohberger is one of only two students she said she ever recommended to a PhD program. However, the the professor also acknowledged she didn't know Kohberger very well outside of their virtual classroom interactions. She said, he seemed normal to me, but then again, I only knew him from teaching him online. I didn't know anything personal about him. Professor Bulger also advised Kohberger on his thesis. As part of his research, he created a survey seeking to understand the emotions and psychology involved in committing a crime. He posted a questionnaire on the social media platform Reddit that ABC News was able to verify. Participants were asked questions like how was your life right before the crime occurred? Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your home? Why did you choose that victim or target over others after committing the crime? What were you thinking and feeling after his arrest? This survey got a lot of attention from media and online sleuths who tied it to a possible motive for the King Road killings, theorizing that his interest in understanding criminal motivation could reflect some desire of his own. But Professor Bulger says the survey's actually pretty standard, she told the Daily Mail. It looks weird, I understand, from the public view. But in criminology, it's a normal theory on how and why criminals commit their crime. Kohberger, now 27, graduated with his master's degree in June of 2022 and moved across the country to pursue his PhD at Washington State University, right next door to Moscow, Idaho Foreign.

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[Kayna Whitworth]

Brian Coburger moved into a student apartment in Pullman, Washington provided by the university in the fall of 2022. As part of our investigation into Coburger's past, Brian, my producer Timmy and I visited Pullman hoping to learn more about him. We have arrived at what was Brian Kohberger's apartment. His apartment building is this sort of tan three story building has white panels on the windows. The building itself is utilitarian looking and drab. It reminded us of temporary housing we've seen built for Alaskan oil filled workers. It's made to be torn down when the season is over and workers depart. Coburger's apartment was later described by law enforcement as sparsely furnished and decorated. His bathroom didn't even have a shower curtain. Man, look how pretty all those trees are. They're like all those different colors. The view from the parking lot of his apartment building is gorgeous. Timmy and I went looking for someone, anyone who was close with Kohberger during the few short months he was there. We visited places Coburger might have frequented, coffee shops near campus, the vegan restaurants in town. Kohberger adheres to a strict vegan diet and there aren't many places in town that cater to vegans, so we hoped one of their employees might remember him. No luck. And as for friends, people who knew him well, we mostly struck out. ABC did track down one of his former students though. As a PhD student, Kohberger taught undergrads. He worked as a teaching assistant. A ta, Hayden Stinchfield was in one of his classes.

[Hayden Stinchfield]

He was pretty distant, never was super engaged with us, which you know, I can't super blame him for. Cause being a TA doesn't seem super fun. He answered a lot of questions with sort of canned responses that he clearly thought of before. He'd look at the ground when he was up at the front of class and then he would be grading us pretty harshly and leaving a bunch of notes. So clearly he was passionate. It was just like when he was in front of us as a class. He just was never like super open. Most people just sort of got the vibe from him that he was grading us a little too harshly and he was a little bit weird when he was actually in class. Not like any serious red flags or anything but just, just a little off and a harsh grader.

[Kayna Whitworth]

After months of trying. We were finally able to get an exclusive interview with one of his fellow PhD students. We wanted to shed light on Co Berger's time inside the program, a place where he only spent a few short months. In the fall of 2022, the fellow PhD student agreed to speak with me on the record, but she didn't want me to include her name or voice in the podcast. It's a small program and they've felt under siege from public interest in the case since Coburger's arrest. Yet she did have some things she wanted to tell me from the beginning, she says Kohberger seemed to have a hard time fitting in where his master's professor at Desales gave him high marks. This fellow PhD student at WSU described Kohberger as difficult and unpleasant to work with. She said he was sometimes rude and condescending. She remembers a few times that he became angry over seemingly minor issues like being docked a point or two in class. On these occasions, she said, Kohberger's face would turn bright red and he clenched his fists until his knuckles turned white. I spoke with a second colleague from the PhD program who corroborated these descriptions of Kohberger's behavior. The first PhD student told me that Kohberger lacked respect for people's boundaries. In one instance, Kohberger apparently developed a crush on another classmate, repeatedly asking her out and staring at her. This allegedly made her so uncomfortable that the other students made a point of never leaving the two of them alone together. According to the PhD student I spoke to, Kohberger's fellow PhD students began tracking his behavior that bothered them, especially what they saw as disrespect toward female professors. They wrote down how many times he interrupted female professors or skipped their classes. They called it the Brian Tally. Kohberger's classmate told me they thought something was off. As a group, they were raising red flags and telling higher ups the university can't speak due to privacy concerns. But we know Kohberger would later face repercussions in Kohberger's job as a teaching assistant. The fellow PhD student We spoke with told us Coberger held his office hours at unusual times, sometimes late into the evening rather than the more typical daytime hours. She began sticking around after some of her students complained that he would make them feel uncomfortable during their meetings. Students alleged Kohberger closed the door, which is against protocol, or placed himself between the student and the exit so they felt compelled to stay in his office. Kohberger also developed a reputation for being a tough grader, sometimes to the point of frustrating his students. Hayden, the student we spoke to, recalls one incident that seemed to leave everyone involved, even Kohberger himself, feeling uneasy.

[Hayden Stinchfield]

We had a midterm exam that a lot of people thought was graded unfairly. So we, as a class, had, like, a day where we went in, and we were all essentially allowed to just, like, debate him about our grades and try and, like, earn points back, but, you know, was a thing where he argued back. And so we were sort of in this weird, like, debate for the whole class, 50 of us against one of him, and he was having to field all these questions. But Brian didn't seem super comfortable. And honestly, none of us were, like, super comfortable. Was a weird vibe. That was, like, a turning point, I think, for us. We felt like when we did that, our grades got better.

[Kayna Whitworth]

In addition to pursuing his doctorate, Kohberger seemed eager to gain on the job experience in criminal justice. Court documents show. In the fall of 2022, he applied for an internship with the Pullman police department. In his application essay, he wrote that he wanted to assist rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations. We don't know if he got that internship, but we can hear his eagerness to discuss the law with a WSU officer when she pulled him over for a minor moving violation around the same time.

[Thomas Arntz]

You think you know why I stopped you. He ran the red light. What actually happened was I was stuck in the middle of the intersection. Yeah, I was behind you the whole time.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Kohberger didn't quite argue with the cop. It was almost like he was trying to explain his way out of a ticket or wear the officer down.

[Thomas Arntz]

Explain that to me a little bit further. So in Pennsylvania, when you're stuck in their intersection, you have to make the left.

[Kayna Whitworth]

He'd done something pretty basic. He was in the middle of an intersection when the light turned red, and he kept going. So he ran a red light. But he asked the cop for information on the law he'd broken, claiming he's new to the state.

[Thomas Arntz]

To me, that that was actually something wrong. But I. Yeah, well, except for the fact that I was blocking, I. I'm actually just from a very rural area, so we just don't have crosswalks. Oh. Unless I visit an area where there are crosswalks, and then it's. It's not very frequent. Yeah. I do apologize.

[Kayna Whitworth]

While it's easy to look at these recollections and instances in an unfavorable light, given the circumstances, these are only Snapshots now viewed through the lens of the charges against Coburger. Coburger was only a few months into a cross country move, surrounded by all new people and seemingly struggling at school. Less than two months into the program, Coburger's standing as a TA began to go south. According to an article by the New York Times, on September 23rd, Kohberger was involved in a so called altercation with the male professor he was hired to support. We don't know what kind of altercation, but when he met with university higher ups to discuss the situation, they told him that his work wasn't meeting expectations and created an improvement plan. Hayden, the student in his class, recalls that in late November, a few weeks before the end of the semester, Kohberger seemed to loosen up both in terms of appearance and his grading later in the semester.

[Hayden Stinchfield]

Like the last time he came was probably a couple weeks before the class ended. Physically, I remember he looked a little bit more disheveled. He had like some stubble coming on, his hair was a little messed up or whatever. Nothing like crazy, but enough that I remember seeing him and thinking like oh man, finals must be really getting to him or something like that. What happened is he started giving everyone just like high marks and not leaving any notes. Our midterm was right at the end of September, the start of October, and then we didn't have any other graded and marked up assignments until early December.

[Kayna Whitworth]

In hindsight, Hayden now wonders about the shift in his TA's behavior. The murders Kohberger has been charged with happened on November 13th, and looking back, that's around the time when Hayden thinks his TA seemed to ease up on his students.

[Hayden Stinchfield]

It took until like almost a month after the stuff had gone down for the grades to even be noticed. But there was a clear like, he didn't ever give like really good grades before it and he only gave good grades after it.

[Kayna Whitworth]

While the undergrad we spoke to wasn't keeping close track of Coburger's behavior, his fellow PhD students were. Remember that Brian Tally, where the other students in his cohort documented how often he was late to classes taught by female professors, missed their classes entirely, or interrupted them as they were speaking? Well, according to the Bryan Tally, the Monday after the murders, Kohberger missed class. On December 9, a New York Times article states Kohberger had another altercation with a professor he TA'd for. And two days later, university faculty reached out to Kohberger to schedule a meeting about the incident and discuss his standing in the PhD program. The PhD students I spoke with confirmed Kohberger lost his job as a ta. That meant he would lose his tuition waiver, his stipend, and his medical insurance, too. At the end of the semester, Brian's father flew across the country from Pennsylvania to meet up with his son. The two would drive back to the Poconos together. By December 13, their drive was underway. They took Brian's white Hunter Dielantra. As they drove through Indiana, a strange thing happened. Brian was pulled over twice within the span of nine minutes.

[Hayden Stinchfield]

Hello.

[Kayna Whitworth]

How you doing?

[Thomas Arntz]

How y'all doing today?

[Kayna Whitworth]

Pulled you over for tailgating. While we have body cam footage of both traffic stops, the audio is pretty bad and only fragments of the conversation are coherent. One piece we can make out from the first stop is Brian's dad bragging to one of the police officers who pulled them over about how his son is a teacher at Washington State University.

[Thomas Arntz]

So y'all work at the university there? I actually do work there.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Okay. It's an interesting thing for Coburger's dad to say to the cop, given his son's troubles at the university. But even more strange, nine minutes after the first traffic stop executed by the local sheriff's department, Coburger was pulled over for tailgating again, this time by the Indiana State Police. He wasn't ticketed either time and law enforcement sources tell me these were just traffic stops, nothing related to the murder investigation. Although Moscow PD had released the detail about searching for the white Elantra just days before, on December 7th, Indiana authorities would have no way of knowing if the vehicle they pulled over was under investigation. And sources have long maintained the FBI was not tailing them. Coburger and his dad were still on this road trip December 14th. While I was back in Moscow doing that ride along with Sergeant Sproat, the officer who told me his gut instinct was the suspect was still in the area Coburger had just left. Coburger and his dad arrived home in Pennsylvania sometime around December 16th. Right after Christmas. While Coburger stayed at his parents house, the FBI began closing in. On December 26, a special emergency response team encircled the house. The FBI believed the White Elantra seen outside the King Road house on the night of the murders was his. While the family home was under surveillance in late December, the FBI obtained samples of the family's DNA from garbage bags discarded outside the house. Samples they would later use to connect Coburger's DNA to the knife sheath found at the crime scene. After nearly four days of surveillance, at 4:35 in the afternoon on December 29th, law enforcement obtained a search warrant the Coburger household. Nine hours later, on December 30th, at 1:30 in the morning, police raided the Coburger family home. They apprehended Bryan Coburger, thoroughly searched the house and seized items they believed might be evidence. My law enforcement sources tell me that at the time of the arrest, Coburger was wearing gloves and they believed he'd been sorting trash. They arrested him as he was running down the stairs toward his bedroom in the basement. At this exact time, I was on my way to Moscow after getting that call in the grocery store telling me I should show up. To cover some unexplained development in the case, Coburger was taken to the Monroe County Jail. While he was there, he signed a document from Washington State University acknowledging he'd been informed that if he returned to the WSU campus, he'd be charged with criminal trespassing. Meanwhile, police searched his apartment in Pullman. Authorities said they seized possible hair samples, including one they believed to be from an animal, a disposable black glove, a computer tower, and samples from a reddish brown stain on an uncovered pillow that was tested presumptive positive for blood. Coburger's family hasn't given interviews. If they were suspicious of Brian, would they have reported him? We do know that his father reported him once before. In new details exclusive to this podcast, ABC News has reviewed records showing that nine years before his arrest for the Idaho murders, Brian Coburger was arrested in Pennsylvania and charged with theft home from rehab. Co Burger took his sister Melissa's iPhone, which had an estimated value of $400. That's what Michael Coburger told police, according to the records. Authorities say Coburger paid a friend $20 to pick him up and take him to a local mall, where he sold the phone for 200 at an unmanned kiosk for used electronics. Coburger was charged with misdemeanor theft. He did not serve any jail time, and there is now no public record of the arrest or the outcome of the case. After their son was charged with the four Idaho murders, Coburger's parents were subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury in Pennsylvania. Information gleaned from their testimony can be shared with prosecutors in Idaho. The lawyer currently representing Coburger's parents had no comment about the details surrounding his prior arrest. Coburger's trial isn't set to begin until early October. We'll take a closer look into evidence for and against him in our next episode. Jason Lebaron, Coburger's former public defender in Pennsylvania, told me when we spoke several months ago that he worries many people may have already made up their minds about Kohberger's guilt. You think he's being tried right now in the court of public opinion?

[Jason Lebar]

Oh, he's undoubtedly being tried in the court of public opinion. Since the gag order went into effect, I haven't read or seen one story that was beneficial to his case.

[Kayna Whitworth]

In January of 2023, an Idaho judge issued an order prohibiting attorneys, law enforcement, and others involved in the case from talking about it publicly. Given all the media attention surrounding the case, this forced silence is meant to protect Kohberger's right to a fair trial. Recently there was a hearing about a request to lift the gag order, which was brought by a coalition of media organizations, including ABC News. Kohberger's attorney, J. Weston Logsdon, said the enormous amount of press about the case has been pretty one sided against Kohberger. He added, nobody wants to burst the bubble of the mob that the media is forming against his client. Labar isn't subject to the order because he no longer represents Kohberger outside of the gag order because there's the gag order in Idaho. But why isn't anybody talking on his behalf?

[Jason Lebar]

The gag order? Quite simply, the only individuals who have access to the actual evidence in the case are prohibited from disseminating it.

[Kayna Whitworth]

But people could be speaking about his character.

[Jason Lebar]

They could be. I can't speak for those people.

[Kayna Whitworth]

It's true there haven't been many positive stories about Kohberger, and it's been hard to find people to speak on his behalf. So we're left with a bit of an incomplete picture of him. Authorities haven't yet offered a motive for why they believe Kohberger committed these murders, though there's been tons of Internet and media speculation in our reporting, we haven't found any link between Kohberger and the victims, including on social media. And as Jason Lebar reminds us, just because someone is interested in crime doesn't mean they're criminals themselves. There are lots of people who share the same fascination. You don't think Brian's higher education is relevant in this case at all?

[Jason Lebar]

I don't believe so. I spoke many times about the case. People had asked that question multiple times. To me, that's like accusing every lawyer of committing this crime. Someone with intimate knowledge. Every police officer could commit this crime because they have intimate knowledge on how to evade the criminal justice system. I mean, certainly it's a factor, but how much of a factor to me is very minimal.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Since his extradition back to Idaho in January, Kohberger's been held in the Latah County Jail. With his trial still over three months away, the Kohberger family, the defense team and according to Jason Lebar, Kohberger himself, seems acutely aware that the legal battle will be long and arduous. But the defense is laying the groundwork to fight the charges that now carry the death penalty. In a recent court filing, Kohberger's defense team stated there is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims. There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger's apartment, office, home or vehicle. Next time on the King Road Killings, we'll look ahead to the case.

[Jason Lebar]

DNA is great at telling us who it is, terrible at telling us how. Just because someone's DNA is somewhere, I don't know how many stops it made along the way.

[Kayna Whitworth]

Those kids did nothing, nothing to deserve what happened to them at all.

[Thomas Arntz]

And his life needs to be taken. He took lives and he needs to die.

[Kayna Whitworth]

The King Road Killings is a production of ABC Audio. If you value this reporting, please share this podcast with others and give us a review on Apple Podcasts. This episode was written and produced by Timmy Truong, Meg Fierro, Vika Aronson and me, Kayna Whitworth. Our supervising producer is Sasha Islanian. Our story editor is Tracy Samuelson. Fact checker Amirah Williams. Original music by Soundboard mixing by Rick Kwan. Ariel Chester is our social media producer. Special thanks to Lisa Soloway, Sean Dooley, Josh Margolin, Sasha Pesnik, Santina Lucci, John Capel, Nick Cerrone, Kayla Klass, Olivia Osteen and Liz Alessi. Josh Cohan is ABC Audio's director of podcast programming. Laura Mayer is our executive producer.

[Brad Milke]

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