Kidnapped at Birth (Part 1 of 2)

Summary

The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

Episode: Kidnapped at Birth (Part 1 of 2)

Date: May 21, 2026
Hosts: Hannah Smith and Pasha Eaton
Guest: Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal

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Episode Overview

In this compelling first part of a two-part series, The Knife hosts Hannah Smith and Pasha Eaton sit down with Paul Fronczak, a man whose life was upended when he discovered, at age 10, that he had been kidnapped as a newborn. The tale takes a turn decades later when DNA testing revealed that Paul was not the child his parents thought they had. Through sensitive, first-person storytelling, the episode delves into Paul’s search for the truth—his own identity, the fate of the real Paul, and a new mystery: the disappearance of his twin sister.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

A Fateful Discovery in Childhood

• Paul’s Normal Suburban Upbringing
  • Grew up in Oak Lawn, Illinois, blue-collar family, never felt he "fit in" (04:28).
• The Crawl Space Revelation
  • At age 10, while looking for Christmas presents, Paul finds newspaper clippings about his kidnapping (05:04).

    “Sad city Hunt drags on for kidnapped child. 10,000 police officers swarmed the city looking for Paul Joseph Fronczak. And I was like, wait a minute, that's me. I was kidnapped.” — Paul (05:26)

  • His mother confirms the story but insists, “We’ll never talk about this again” (06:28).

The Kidnapping: Details and Aftermath

• The Abduction (April 27, 1964)
  • Woman disguised as a nurse takes one-day-old Paul from his mother’s hospital room in Chicago; vanishes, triggering a massive, city-wide search (09:23–09:58).
• Media Frenzy and Parental Devastation
  • Coverage intensified family trauma; Dora had already lost a child the previous year (11:19–12:13).

    “There's actually live news footage of when this happened, and she's pleading to the kidnapper to bring Paul back.” — Paul (11:19)

• The Initial Search
  • 10,000 letter carriers sent door-to-door; leads dry up after a month (12:49–14:32).

The ‘Miracle’ Identification and Unanswered Questions

• Discovery in Newark, NJ (July 1965)
  • A foundling is left in a stroller outside a department store; after no one claims him, he’s placed in foster care as Scott McKinley (17:00–17:39).
  • Identified as “missing Paul” almost entirely by the shape of his ear. Reunited with Chester and Dora in an emotionally fraught, high-pressure identification (22:10–22:53).

    “Dora spent maybe 20 minutes with her child before he was kidnapped. And then over two years later, she's put in a room with his child and given a few minutes to make up her mind. Is this your kidnapped child?” — Paul (22:10)

• Lingering Doubts
  • Paul grows up sensing he’s different—physically, emotionally, and even musically (07:55–08:45).
  • DNA was unavailable then; Paul, as an adult, jokes uneasily about not really belonging (24:33).

The DNA Bombshell (2012)

• Paul Initiates a DNA Test
  • After years of curiosity, he collects DNA from his parents during a visit—even as they voice cold feet (24:33–26:25).

    “I'm probably not Polish. I was raised Polish. Am I really Polish?” — Paul (27:04)

  • Results: “There is no remote possibility that you're the child of Chester and Dora Fronczak.” (27:04)
  • Family’s reaction: shock, silence, and ultimately anger when Paul insists on pursuing the truth.

    “How dare you do this? How dare you want to find better parents?” — Dora, as relayed by Paul (29:23–31:10)

Search for Identity: Paul’s Investigation Goes Public

• Media and Publicity
  • Partnering with journalist George Knapp and later with Barbara Walters to bring the story to national attention (29:23–36:01).
  • The push for answers is met with massive media interest and an avalanche of tips.
• Genealogical Sleuthing
  • CeCe Moore, genetic genealogist, joins the effort (36:26).
  • Initial DNA testing yields no matches—leaving Paul feeling “totally alone” (37:51).
  • First notable match: Alan Fish (third cousin, also adopted); tragically, Alan dies days before they would meet (39:03–39:35).

    “You get so close to finding the truth for both of us, and then something like that happens.” — Paul (39:39)

The Breakthrough: The Rosenthal Connection and a New Mystery

• Piecing Together the Family Tree

  • With CeCe Moore’s help, Paul learns about Lenny Rocco, eventually links to Rosenthal relatives (41:01–42:54).
  • Discovery: Paul is actually “Jack Rosenthal,” one of twins (Jack and Jill), children of Gilbert and Marie Rosenthal.

    “She said, ‘That’s your name.’ And without missing a beat, she said, ‘But there’s more. You have a twin sister, Jill, and she’s missing.’ And I said, ‘Oh my God, now I’ve got to find Jill immediately.’” — Paul (42:58)

• Double Mission

  • Paul Jack Rosenthal must now:
    1. Search for Jill, his missing twin.
    2. Search for the real Paul Fronczak, who may still be missing (43:35).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On discovering his kidnapping (from childhood):

  • “And I was excited. I grabbed one of the articles and I ran upstairs to talk to my mom. ... She said, ‘Yeah, you were kidnapped. We found you. We love you. We’ll never talk about this again.’” — Paul (05:26–06:28)

• When the DNA results shatter his identity:

  • “Everything I thought I knew about myself just vanished. And I sat there going, I don't know anything about me. I don't know how old I am. I don't know my name.” — Paul (27:04)

• On his sense of responsibility to his adoptive parents:

  • “Maybe I can pay them back by finding their kidnapped child. I wanted to find the truth. I wanted to find their kidnapped child and maybe find out who I am at the same time.” — Paul (28:26)

• The heartbreak of missed connection:

  • “He goes, ‘You gotta fix me up quick. I'm going to New York to meet my real family.’ And a couple hours later, he was dead.” — Paul (39:03–39:35)

• When he learns his real name and about his twin:

  • “She said, ‘That's your name ... but there's more. You have a twin sister, Jill, and she's missing.’” — Paul (42:58)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Discovering the secret in childhood: 04:19 – 06:28
• Details of the kidnapping event: 09:23 – 10:17
• Media impact and parental response: 11:19 – 12:13
• Found as a ‘miracle’ in New Jersey: 17:00 – 18:43
• DNA testing and results: 24:33 – 27:04
• Family confrontations and fallout: 29:23 – 31:10
• Going public and media coverage: 34:42 – 36:01
• Genealogical investigation, Alan Fish: 37:39 – 39:35
• The Rosenthal breakthrough and twin mystery: 42:11 – 43:35

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Tone and Language

• Empathetic, direct, occasionally raw, especially when Paul recounts painful discoveries.
• Reflective: Paul regularly considers the motives and pain of his adoptive parents.
• Determined: Paul’s sense of mission and responsibility permeates every revelation.

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Episode Cliffhanger

The episode closes with the revelation that Paul—now Jack Rosenthal—has a missing twin sister, Jill, and a renewed, dual quest: to find Jill and to locate the real Paul Fronczak, whose fate remains unknown.

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Next Episode Tease

"Please join us next week to hear the second part of Paul Fronczak's story." (44:12)

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For Listeners

If you have a true crime story, contact the show at thenifexactlyrightmedia.com or via Instagram/Bluesky @theknifepodcast.

Transcript

[Pasha Eaton]

This is exactly right.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Public Sponsor Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures what's up y'?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

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[Hannah Smith]

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Pasha Eaton]

The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of the speaker and do not necessarily represent the knife or exactly right Media.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Everything I thought I knew about myself just vanished. And I sat there going, I don't know anything about me. I don't know how old I am. I don't know my name.

[Pasha Eaton]

Welcome to the Knife. I'm Pasha Eaton.

[Hannah Smith]

I'm Hannah Smith. This week we have part one of a two part series. Part two will air next week.

[Pasha Eaton]

Today we're speaking with Paul Fronczak. In December of 1974, Paul was 10 years old when he accidentally learned that he'd been kidnapped as a newborn baby. Just one day old. Later found states away and returned to his family. It was a miracle.

[Hannah Smith]

But as Paul got older, he dug deeper and deeper into his own abduction. And with every answer came more questions. And then in 2012, came a DNA test that would upend the story Paul had been told about his life.

[Pasha Eaton]

Let's get into the interview. So if you could give us a brief introduction, however you would like to be introduced on the show.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Okay. Names. I have quite a few names. I was, I was Paul Fronczak for a long time. Then I found out who I really am. So I'm actually Jack Thomas Rosenthal. And I was Scott McKinley for a while in there. I still go by Paul, but I prefer Jack because that's my biological name. So I go by Paul Jack Fronczak. It's got a nice ring to it.

[Pasha Eaton]

Great. So let's start out with your childhood. Tell me a little bit about where you grew up and your family life.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

So my childhood was pretty normal. I grew up in the suburbs in Oak Lawn, Illinois. Blue collar family, mom and dad. I had a younger brother and I just never really felt like I fit in. And when I was 10 years old, everything changed.

[Pasha Eaton]

When was that?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

1974. Best time for music, rock and roll, the best bands, everything. So it was close to Christmas time and I was doing what every other 10 year old would do. I was looking for Christmas presents because nobody wants to wait till Christmas morning to find out what you have, right? You want to find out ahead of time so you could prepare.

[Pasha Eaton]

Of course.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

My mom was upstairs doing something and I figured now's a good time to do it. So I hadn't checked the crawl space yet. So I moved the couch away and I noticed the crawl space door. I opened it up, propped it, and I kind of did a scan of the crawl space. And in the very back I saw a bunch of boxes. And I thought, there it is, there's the Christmas score.

[Pasha Eaton]

Ding, ding, ding, right?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

I thought, this is it. So I low crawled down to the boxes. And I started going through the boxes and I didn't find Christmas presents. What I did find were headlines of newspaper articles and clippings. Sad city Hunt drags on for kidnapped child. 10,000 police officers swarmed the city looking for Paul Joseph Fronczak. And I was like, wait a minute, that's me. I was kidnapped. And then I saw a picture of my mom and dad and they looked really sad, just devastated. And it's just said that the forensics are looking for their kidnapped child. So I was excited. I grabbed one of the articles and I ran upstairs to talk to my mom. I'm like, mom, mom, what is this? And she looked at me and her face got red. And she said, how dare you snoop around this house? Those aren't your things. And I said, yeah, but this is about me, right? Was I kidnapped? And I think she realized I wasn't going to walk away without an answer. So she looked at me and she said, yeah, you were kidnapped. We found you. We love you. We'll never talk about this again.

[Hannah Smith]

What Paul learned from those articles he found in that crawl space before his mother, Dora Fronczak, told him they wouldn't be speaking about it, was that when he was only one day old, on April 27, 1964, a nurse entered his mother's hospital room while she was feeding her newborn baby, Paul. The nurse said she needed to take the baby for some additional testing. So Paul's mother, Dora, handed him off to the nurse. Except that woman was not a nurse. She didn't even work at the hospital. She was just dressed like a nurse. She turned around and left the hospital with baby Paul in her arms. Then she disappeared. A massive search ensued, but Paul was gone. Then over a year later, Paul was found, but not in Chicago. He'd been abandoned outside of a department store in Newark, New Jersey. It was a miracle. He was reunited with his parents, who were overjoyed. End of story. Or at least that was the end of the conversation 10 year old Paul had with his mother that day. But he had so many more questions. Questions that brewed in his mind for years. Where had he been while he was missing? And who was the woman who kidnapped him? And what were the circumstances of his discovery? In New Jersey, Paul grew up, got married, had a kid of his own. But he never stopped wondering what really happened to him.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

The older I got, I really thought about it. What are the chances of me being found in Newark, New Jersey, on the street? The chances of me being their kidnapped child? After over Two years across the country. To me it just sounded. Sound like a fairy tale. So growing up, I didn't notice things, you know, little things here and there. Like I looked nothing like my parents or my younger brother who looked exactly like my dad. I didn't have the mannerisms they had. I'm a musician. I self taught myself how to play guitar and bass. My parents never listened to music, but I was drawn to rock and roll. And then I noticed that my younger brother had the big bedroom and I was putting in the tiny little guest room. Even though I was the older brother and usually the older sibling gets things first and then they get passed down. Yeah, I thought that was kind of strange. You know, it's just little things like that.

[Hannah Smith]

Growing up, Paul had his daughter in 2009 and he started to think more about the truth of his past. Maybe it was finally being a parent himself. He couldn't imagine having his own child kidnapped or ever doing that to another parent. He decided it was time to find the truth. So he started digging into his own past. By this time, there was more information available on the Internet. Old news articles, video segments. He started to search for information about the woman who kidnapped him from that Chicago hospital in April of 1964.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

So a woman dressed like a nurse went to Michael Reese hospital. That's where Mrs. Fronczak had Paul. She came into the hospital room. She was actually seen the night before too, checking out different babies. But she walked in the hospital room at 1:30 on April 27. She told Mrs. Fronczak the doctor needed to check out the baby. So Mrs. Fronczak handed the baby over, she took the baby, she walked out of that room, went down staircase, jumped in a cab and vanished without a trace. Whole thing took about three minutes and then she just disappeared from the city.

[Pasha Eaton]

And Dora is not immediately aware that this has occurred.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

So the hospital really, really screwed this up because there was no protocol for this. The hospital thought that Paul was misplaced, so they didn't notify the police for two hours. So the kidnapper had a huge head start.

[Pasha Eaton]

How do they notify your parents?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

The hospital called my dad at work and they said, you child is missing, you need to come to the hospital and tell your wife. So Chester Fronczak had to leave work, go to the hospital room, and then tell his wife that the baby is missing. As soon as he did that, all of the FBI and the cops stormed the room and started doing their criminal procedures for a crime scene.

[Hannah Smith]

According to a 2021 documentary called the Lost Sons, the hospital staff knew that the baby was missing for hours. There was a student nurse interviewed in the documentary, and she remembered spending almost an entire day with Dora Fronczak, all while she knew the baby was missing, but she wasn't allowed to inform Dora. The entire hospital was searched, but baby Paul was not found. And it was many hours later that the Fronczaks were finally given the devastating news.

[Pasha Eaton]

What was Dora's reaction to learning that her baby had been stolen?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Beyond devastation. There's actually live news footage of when this happened, and she's pleading to the kidnapper to bring Paul back. You know, and the media was very tough on her. They just followed her everywhere. And it just makes things worse when you're trying to grieve and hope that your child comes back. And then you have the media stalking you as well.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I mean, to go from one moment being this sort of anonymous civilian person to being followed around by the media and having the worst moment of your life all over the news, I mean, that has to be just mind blowing, but also a little bit. You want it in the news, I imagine, because you want to find out where the baby is and who has taken your baby. So tell me a little bit about your dad, Chester, and your mom, Dora. You know, what are they like?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

They were just normal, a normal couple. You know, the sad part is, a year prior, Dora gave birth to a stillborn in that very same hospital, the same maternity wing. And then one of the newspapers actually had the gall to say that she's had two children and has gone home with none. My dad worked in a machine shop, and my mom, her profession was banking, you know. Then when she had children, she stopped working for a while. Then she'd go back to work.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so the FBI swarms the hospital and the hospital room. What does that search look like, and what do they find?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Well, they sent out 10,000 letter carriers to go door to door trying to find the baby. So it was a huge, huge case. They really wanted to find this baby. The panic that was setting in, all these mothers scheduled to go to the hospital to give birth, and the ones already in there, they're thinking, my God, someone could just walk in here and steal my baby. It's not a good feeling.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

And it was different back then because, you know, all they had was newspapers and radio news. It wasn't like we had Instagram. People were taking pictures and, you know, things like that. So people were phoning in tips whenever they would find someone, you know, suspect or Had a tip phoned in. They'd have to go find this person, you know, vet them out, everything like that. So it was pretty crazy.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. Mobilizing a search effort in the 1960s does look really different than it looks right now. You don't have the benefit of the Internet and social media to immediately spread the word about something, but it's still. News of this baby's abduction, of your abduction spread very quickly, and it was big news. But it sounds like, you know, how much time went by until things sort of died down quite a while.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Dora was in the hospital about another week, and then finally, she. She had to go home and start her life. But they had the FBI living with them. They had their phones tapped. I mean, it's just like a movie, right? And they were trying to, you know, if there was a ransom call, make sure that they're on top of that. But no ransom calls came in. They had one. It was a scam. Someone trying to scam money out of them, which was pretty exciting, but it didn't lead to anything. But after about a month, they started pulling back on the detail, and I guess they realized we really have exhausted our options here.

[Pasha Eaton]

In the initial search effort, they discover enough about what happened that they're able to. They have a description of the person that took the baby. Can you tell us what this person looked like, according to the sketch?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Yeah. So they said that she was about five' five, about 135 pounds. She had dark hair pulled back slightly, graying around the temples, a ruddy complexion, very stern look on her face.

[Pasha Eaton]

What do they find about how this person left the hospital?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

She went out the back stairs because Dora's maternity room was right next to the stairwell. She went down the staircase. I guess they had a taxi stand outside with a phone. So she called for a taxi, but she told the taxi driver to pick her up at the Butler building. The cab driver said, there is no Butler building at Michael Reese Hospital. And then she said, okay, just pick me up outside the side entrance. I'll be there in three minutes. The cab driver was Lee Kelsey. Lee Kelsey was just a cab driver doing his job. And it turned out that because he was an eyewitness, because he actually picked her up, he dropped her off at 35th and Halstead. Then he told the cops that he remembers her from previous trips, picking her up, bringing her into a restaurant in that same area. So that tells us that she was either very familiar or she lived in that area. Well, he said that she got out, she crossed the street and then jumped into another car with the baby.

[Hannah Smith]

Paul has done extensive research over the years. His information comes from conversations he's since had, newspaper articles, and importantly, the original police report from April of 1964, which was all handwritten, of course. Over the years, he's been able to catalog what information exists on his kidnapping and reappearance. But there are still many gaps in the story from what Paul has found. The initial search for him as a baby eventually died down due to lack of leads. The news cycle also stopped covering the story. It seemed like whoever took baby Paul had effectively vanished. But then, in July of 1965, one year and three months after Paul disappeared from Michael Reese Hospital in Chicago, a baby matching his description was found in Newark, New Jersey. He was found in a stroller outside a five and dime department store in a busy downtown shopping district.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Someone had left this baby in a brand new stroller and a brand new blue suit. Baby had a black eye. And at first, I guess it was normal that ladies would go shopping inside, leave their babies outside. But after like six or seven hours, you're like, okay, something's wrong here. But someone dropped a dime and said, there's a baby out here. For a long time, you know, it could have been whoever abandoned me. I don't know. But the cops came, they picked me up. They took me down to, I think, the hospital to get checked out and everything. They said they ran a couple of ads. They thought that it'd be cleared up within a day. The parents probably just forgot the baby was there or something. Nobody claimed me. Nobody.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And you were found in an area where women frequented shops.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

McCrory's Variety Store, right on Broad and Cedar. This was the hottest store in town. It was so popular. They had a train platform going right up to the store. So everyone from the city and different boroughs, whatever, could go there and go shopping and then get out. I was a foundling. They put me in the system, and I was put into a foster home. That's where I became Scott McKinley. I was there for a year, and the family that ran the foster home, they wanted to adopt me. The FBI shows up after a year and says, that's the kidnapped child from Chicago. So they went ahead and contacted the Fronczaks, and they had them come out to New Jersey. I was identified by the shape of my ear. Because Paul in the hospital, they never took his footprints or blood type, but they took one picture of him, and you could see his ear. It's actually right behind me. If you can see it on the wall. So supposedly out of 10,000 boys, I was the only one they couldn't rule out based on the shape of my ear.

[Public Sponsor Announcer]

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[Hannah Smith]

It's been reported that the baby found outside the department store in Newark was taken in by Claire and Fred Eckert, who ran a foster home in New Jersey. During his time living with the Eckerts. They baptized him and named him Scott McKinley. They were reportedly very fond of him and had plans to adopt him. But before they could, a New Jersey police detective connected the dots that this found baby might be the the very same baby missing from Chicago. So In March of 1966, almost two years after Baby Paul was kidnapped, Dora and Chester Fronczak got a life changing phone call. They were told baby Paul had likely been found and they were asked to come right away to Newark to identify this baby.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

They put me, Dora and Chester in a room, gave them about five minutes to make up their mind whether I was their kidnapped child or not. I mean, I can't even imagine the pressure that they were under. Dora spent maybe 20 minutes with her child before he was kidnapped. And then over two years later, she's put in a room with his child and given a few minutes to make up her mind. Is this your kidnapped child?

[Pasha Eaton]

I mean, you, you changed so you know so much. Yeah, like, you know, if you're looking at a three year old and then you go look at a picture of them as a newborn, you might be able to be like, okay, yeah, I see. But certainly if you have one photo of your newborn and then you see them as a three year old, it's not obvious.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

No, not at all.

[Hannah Smith]

Dora Fronczak reportedly said, that's my baby. Identifying the found child as her son Paul. Dora and Chester officially adopted this child, who was then known as Scott McKinley, took him home to Chicago and changed his name back to Paul Fronczak. The more Paul learned about his past, about the kidnapping, about being found outside a New Jersey department store and then later identified as Paul Fronczak. He couldn't help but wonder how Anyone could be 100% sure that he was the real Paul. The same baby who'd been taken from Michael Reese Hospital on April 27, 1964. What if he wasn't baby Paul, but another unrelated abandoned baby in the 60s? DNA testing didn't exist to double check that he was the real Paul. And even as Paul, adult Paul, started his initial investigation into his past, DNA testing wasn't something as widely used by the public as it is today. We were still years away from DNA databases and accessible genealogy websites. He could do a DNA test with his parents, Chester and Dora, to see if he was biologically related to them. But he would need their permission and participation, and he sensed that they would be resistant. They didn't want to talk about the almost two years that he was missing as a baby. To them, the past was the past. And so Paul just continued to live his life. But he and his then wife Michelle would sometimes joke about how his parents might not be his parents at all.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

My parents would come out and see Emma, and they always joke about when they were here, when they would go to church. I would get the hairs off their pillows, put them in a Ziploc baggie, and try to get a DNA test done just to find out for sure if I was actually their. Their kidnapped child. And then one day in 2012, I was in a CVS drugstore and it was like a movie moment. It's like the spotlight just shown. I heard the angels singing, and it was going towards an identigene paternity kit. It's like 25 bucks. I can afford that. So I bought it and I kept it in the bathroom cabinet for quite a while. My parents came out to see Emma and I thought, this is a chance to really find the truth. Because I've always thought about it for a long time. Am I actually my parents kidnapped child? But there was no way to know. Michelle was against it. She said, you parents don't want to open up this whole Pandora's box. I said, yeah, but I've always been the kind of person that if you're living a lie, you're not living at all. I have a way to find the truth now. How can I not do that? So they came out to visit us. They were here for a week, and I was almost ready for me to take them back to the airport. Like an hour to go and we're gonna have some dinner. And Michelle tells them, like, I was just like, ordering a pizza. I'm like, hey, did you ever really wonder if I was really your child? My mom was like, yeah, we thought about it. I said, what if we had a way to find out for sure? Would you want to do that? And I know I got him off guard. My mom was like, yeah, probably. So I ran. I Got that DNA kit. I popped it out and within five minutes we're all swabbing away and I'm sealing it up. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna get the truth. I'm really gonna find out for sure once and for all. Am I really Paul Fronczak?

[Pasha Eaton]

Did they say anything about, you know, however these results come back, you're still our son. Like was that conversation had?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

No, they got real quiet. I took them to the airport. It's a 10 minute drive. Felt like it took six months. I drop them off a couple hours later when they got back to Chicago, they called me and they said, we don't want to know, don't send it in. That was it.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, so not just we don't want to know, we don't want you to know. Don't send it in, don't send it in.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

I hung up the phone. My mind was already made up. I'm sending this in.

[Pasha Eaton]

How long did it take to get the results?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

That's the funny part. Okay, now, right now in ancestry, you get your results back in a couple of weeks. Took three months. So I mailed it off in July. I got the results in October.

[Pasha Eaton]

This is July of 2012.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Yeah. And so I'm at work in October and I get a phone call that says, Paul Fronczak. Yes, this is identigene. We have your results. There is no remote possibility that you're the child of Chester and Dora Fronczak. Boom. And even though I knew it, I knew it in my heart for a long time. Once you hear those words and you know it's dead fact. I felt the color drain from my face. Everything I thought I knew about myself just vanished. And I sat there going, I don't know anything about me. I don't know how old I am. I don't know my name. I'm probably not Polish. I was raised Polish. Am I really Polish? And I know I'm not a tourist. I knew that. I told myself right then, I've got to go on a mission. I want to find their kidnapped child. I called Michelle and I said, I'm not Paul. I have no idea who I am. And she didn't miss a beat. She said, you would know exactly who you are. You're Paul Fronczak. You're my husband. You're Emma's dad. But that didn't help me because I really did know who I was. Those are just who they thought they saw me as.

[Pasha Eaton]

Because this also means that your Brother is not your brother, that your extended family is not your extended family.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Right? Nothing was true.

[Pasha Eaton]

When do you decide? I need to tell my parents and we need to talk about this.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

That came later. The first thing I wanted to do was get my story out there and try to find Paul, their kidnapped child. Because the first thought I had was they were amazing parents. They gave me a fantastic life. But this tragic thing happened to them that was never solved. Maybe I can pay them back by finding their kidnapped child. I wanted to find the truth. I wanted to find their kidnapped child and maybe find out who I am at the same time.

[Hannah Smith]

Paul was living in Las Vegas at the time, and he began his search for the real Paul Fronczak in a somewhat unusual manner. He said the first person who came to mind to reach out to was a local Las Vegas journalist, news anchor, and talk radio host named George Knapp. I say unusual because George Knapp is probably most well known for his investigations into the paranormal. What can I say? Paul's a fan. So he sent George Knapp an email.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

He's got numerous Peabody Awards. He cracked Area 51. I mean, the guy is a legend. He's a real reporter. Pound the pavement, find the answers. I sent him a brief paragraph. This is what's happening. What do you think? He got back to me in like six minutes. He said, I want to meet you first thing that next week. I went down to a station and we had a meeting. We talked. He said, this is incredible. We've got to get the story on the air. We've got to find Paul, and we're planning all this. He looked at me and he goes, and don't you want to know who you are? And I said, I haven't even really thought about it. I just want to find Paul and I want to pay my parents back for being such great parents and raising me. And he said, well, let's put a story together. But he said, I'm telling you right now, it's going to be a shitstorm when you get this out there. It's going to be huge. He said, you got to let your parents know before this airs. And that's what I was tasked with. I didn't want to call them. They're both up in age, hard of hearing. If I try to tell them on the phone, they're only going to hear what they want to hear and probably shut down and get mad and angry, and it's not going to solve anything. So I sat right down and I knocked out a first draft email and it covered everything. And I sent them that email. My initial hope was that they would join me on this journey to help me find their kidnapped child. I thought, what a great family thing to do together. Work on this together and find your kidnapped child. I thought it'd be awesome. In my mind, they saw it completely opposite. After they got the email, my mom called screaming at me, how dare you do this? How dare you want to find better parents? You don't like us, you know, whatever. And my dad got on there and he just. He just swore at me and hung up. And that was it.

[Pasha Eaton]

So they really felt it sounds like a sense of betrayal.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Betrayal. Like I wasn't happy with them as my parents. I wanted to find other parents. Right.

[Pasha Eaton]

And that possibly this is exposing them to, I mean, I'm guessing, I suppose with more heartache because they had, you know, at least been living under the impression or maybe convinced themselves at some point that they had found their missing child.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Exactly.

[Pasha Eaton]

And now they were forced to reconcile that they had not.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Did you tell your brother?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

We had brief conversations. Originally he was going to help me with DNA, a DNA sample. But then he jumped on their bandwagon and pretty much said, how dare you do this to mom and dad? And I didn't understand that thinking. To me, if you know something's not right, why wouldn't you want to find the answers and find the truth?

[Pasha Eaton]

I speak to so many different kinds of people with so many different kinds of stories and it's just so unpredictable how someone's going to respond to trauma or something unexpected. And yeah, it sounds like your parents and your brother would have been happy to sort of just accept that you were maybe their biological son or maybe you weren't, but that you were just their son regardless. And I think it's your right to know who you are.

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[Hannah Smith]

In April of 2013, the news segment about Paul Fronczak and his search for his true identity ran on 8 News Now Live at 5. It was called Henderson Mann's True Identity Remains Mystery. Paul and his then wife Michelle are both interviewed for the story. And it wraps up like it isn't one mystery, it's several. What became of the real Paul Fronczak, not to mention his kidnapper? Why was that baby abandoned outside a store in Newark? What's the real name, age and nationality of the man who lives in his Henderson home? And where is his other family? The story was about to catch fire.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so sounds like you brace for impact. You send the email, you make the phone calls, and now you're gonna get the story out there. And how quickly does that take off overnight?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

George ran the first segment, all of a sudden getting calls from Matt Lauer. Every network, every TV show, you know, they all wanted a piece of the action. So I went to New York and met with every network. I wanted to find the perfect show to help get my story out there. I went with Barbara Walters in 2020.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so you're teaming up with Barbara Walters in 2020 to not only tell your story, but to solve it like her plan is to help.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Pasha Eaton]

So you speak with Barbara Walters. Your story's all over the news at that point. And how does the next sort of part of the investigation into who you really are unfold?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

So George. George Knapp. He also co hosts on coast to coast am, one of my favorite radio shows. So he had me on the show, and CC Moore, who is probably the top genealogist in our country, heard the show. George and I set up a who is Paul? Facebook page to start capturing tips and leads and information. So CeCe writes to us. You know, I'd like to help you pro bono. You know, I'm a genetic genealogist. And now, in all fairness, George and I were inundated. It was just me and George doing this. We're getting thousands of tips and information. So the first contact you made, I overlooked it because there were so many things. I'm like, genetic genealogist. What the hell is that? You know, Next. Right. And then after. After we did The Barbara Walters 2020, reached out to her, and she started working with us. Now they call me one of the OGs of ancestry DNA, because no one was really doing this yet. So ancestry reached out. They gave me a kit that did my DNA. Maybe six, seven weeks later, we get the results. I have zero matches. So you think you're alone when you have your identity taken away from you, Put your DNA out there and get no hits. Totally alone.

[Pasha Eaton]

What did that feel like because you had so much information from the first test you took? I mean, what did it feel like to sort of get nothing back from that second one?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

It sucks. It's a lonely feeling. So after a couple of weeks went by of having nothing, all of a sudden, I had a pop up, and it was a. They said it was a third cousin. Turned out to be like a fifth or sixth because they were still honing their process. After a couple of months, I had a hit. And it was a guy named Alan Fish. We matched as third cousins.

[Pasha Eaton]

Third cousins. So that is. I just googled it.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

Third cousin is someone who shares the same great, great grandparents as you with you.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Okay. All right.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Yeah, it was close, but it turned out that Alan was adopted. You can't make this story up. You know, if we said it was made up, people wouldn't believe it.

[Hannah Smith]

You know, truly, Paul was initially over the moon. That he'd matched with a long lost relative, a guy named Alan Fish. When Paul learned that Alan was adopted, he was slightly crestfallen. Alan may or may not have the answers Paul was looking for, but at least it was something. It was step one in his discovery of his biological family.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

So Alan reaches out to me. He's so excited. He's like, you know, I've had questions about my identity, so my kids got me this kit. And he goes, you're the first guy I matched with. So we talked a couple of times. He was very excited. I couldn't wait to meet this guy. Barbara Walters wanted to get us on the show. A couple of days before we're supposed to meet, Alan wakes up not feeling good, chest pains. He goes to the hospital. He's telling everyone in the hospital. His family told me this, you got to fix me up quick. I'm going to New York to meet my real family. And a couple hours later, he was dead.

[Pasha Eaton]

That is just heartbreaking.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

I cried. I pulled over in my car and got the news and I just cried. You know, it's like you get so close to finding the truth for both of us, and then something like that happens. You know, it's totally unexpected. And it just. It really sucked for everyone. And his adoption was closed. But 2020 was able to open the adoption papers, which was amazing. They had a lot of clout. His mother's name was listed on there. There was no father listed. So that was a bummer too, you know, because it could have been a lot easier if everything was on there.

[Hannah Smith]

The first biological connection Paul had ever made in his life had died suddenly just before they'd had the chance to meet. But by this point, there were fans across the country who were rooting for Paul to find his identity. With the help of Barbara Walters and the show 20 20, he was able to find more information on Allen Fish. He then located another third cousin named Amy. Amy was not adopted. She was biologically related to both Allen and t'. Pol. But GRE up with her biological family, Amy was able to fill in some of the gaps. And she remembered her grandfather talking about a man named Lenny Rocco. With that information, along with the help of a genetic genealogist, Paul learned who Allen Fish was and how they were related.

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

They were able to ascertain that the mother of Alan had a one night stand with this one guy in Philadelphia. Same neighborhood, same high school, very young. And it turned out to be Lenny Rocco. Lenny Rocco was my second cousin. They reached out to him. He said, oh, my God, I'll do a test. If I have a child out there, I'll do everything I can to find and do help. He did DNA, and it turned out that he was Alan's father. And then they could start working with his matches to help build a tree. To find out how he and I

[Hannah Smith]

were connected, Paul had solved one mystery. He'd discovered who Alan's biological father was. Lenny Rocco. Sadly, this discovery was made after Allen died. Paul was doing the laborious and detailed work of filling out his family tree. He'd now made a big discovery. Lenny Rocco was his biological second cousin.

[Pasha Eaton]

How old was Lenny?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Lenny was in his 80s, late 70s when this first started.

[Pasha Eaton]

So what did you find from Lenny's test?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Turned out that he was part of the Rocco family. The Rocco's were also associated with the Rosenthals. And Cece Moore and her team, they had talked with a lot of different people and they had heard that someone in the family had twins. But the family member got the person wrong of who actually had the twins. Turned out later that they found some newspaper articles about Jack and Jill being born to Gilbert and Marie Rosenthal on the same birthday as their older sister. And so they matched up the DNA. We get DNA from both sides of the family, the Rocco's and the Rosenthals. And I was a perfect match as Jack Rosenthal.

[Pasha Eaton]

So you were Jack Rosenthal, one of those twins?

[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

Yeah. Cece Moore texted me. Whenever we get information that was pretty important, she would text me, can you talk? I was at work once again, so I kind of ducked out, went out to my car and I called her. She said, hey, I have the whole team here. What do you think of the name Jack? I said, that's a good name. That's a strong name. She said, that's your name. And without missing a beat, she said, but there's more. You have a twin sister, Jill, and she's missing. And I said, oh, my God, now I've got to find Jill immediately. It just. That's my next mission.

[Hannah Smith]

Paul Fronczak had discovered who he was, or at least his name, Jack Rosenthal. But as was par for his genealogical quest, answers only came with more questions. Paul, who now goes by Paul Jack Rosenthal, had just discovered he had a twin sister, Jill, and that she was missing. Now he had a double mission. He still needed to find the original Paul Fronczak, the one kidnapped from that Chicago hospital. And now he also wanted to find his twin, Jill.

[Pasha Eaton]

That's it for part one. Please join us next week to hear the second part of Paul Fronczak's.

[Hannah Smith]

Story.

[Pasha Eaton]

If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can follow us on Instagram henifepodcast or blueskyenifepodcast.

[Hannah Smith]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith

[Pasha Eaton]

and me Pasha Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breifeogle and Alexis Amorosi.

[Hannah Smith]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogle.

[Pasha Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Hannah Smith]

Our third theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Pasha Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

[Hannah Smith]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

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[Paul Fronczak / Jack Rosenthal]

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