Kidnapped at Birth (Part 2 of 2)

Summary

The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

Kidnapped at Birth (Part 2 of 2) – May 28, 2026

Hosted by Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton | Guest: Paul Jack Fronczak

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Overview

This gripping conclusion to the two-part series continues the remarkable, labyrinthine story of Paul Jack Fronczak—born Jack Rosenthal, raised as the abducted Paul Fronczak. In Part 2, hosts Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton speak with Paul about his long search for both his origins and his kidnapped “twin” identity: uncovering family trauma, tracking down his biological siblings, and solving the original kidnapping that became national news in the '60s. The discussion explores memory, identity, the limits of DNA, and the lasting effects of childhood crimes on entire families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Twin Discovered: The Search for Jill (04:21–06:12)

• Paul recounts discovering, as an adult, that he was not biologically related to the Fronczaks—the parents who raised him. DNA revealed his birth name was Jack Rosenthal and that he had a twin sister, Jill, both born in 1963.
• "I just wanted to find her. I wanted to find out more about who I was, who my family was. How did I end up abandoned on the street in Newark, New Jersey, with a black eye?" – Paul (04:32)
• Rather than being overwhelmed, Paul likened his journey to investigating someone else’s life: "It's like it's not my life. I'm an investigator investigating someone else's life... There’s a girl out there that's missing. I gotta find her." (04:59)

2. Trauma and Neglect in Early Childhood (08:35–10:17)

• Through relatives and a former neighbor, Paul learns he and Jill suffered neglect and possible abuse in their first home: confined, dirty, hungry—an account corroborated by a babysitter who remembered the twins’ isolation and Jill’s speechlessness.
• Babysitter's memory: The twins were "dirty and hungry, and they looked scared. Jack had a black eye." (09:06 paraphrased)
• The family’s dysfunction included severe isolation of the twins, with other siblings unaware of their fate.

3. Sibling Reunions—And Doors Closed (11:06–12:56)

• Paul tracks down his surviving biological sister in Atlantic City. After an initial, positive conversation, she ceases all contact; his brother is equally dismissive, suspecting a scam.
• "My younger brother told me that it was a very dysfunctional family. They wouldn't do anything together. There was no love in that family. I mean, I know I dodged many bullets, put it that way. I'm so thankful I was raised by the Fronczaks." – Paul (12:27)
• Paul reflects on the “silver lining” of being raised in a loving home despite the tragedy.

4. Jill’s Fate: Disturbing Clues (13:40–14:27)

• Multiple witnesses recall disturbing episodes, including their mother handling the twins violently and rumors persist that Jill may have died due to neglect. Paul suspects deliberate cover-up by surviving siblings.
• "So a lot of the people that we talked to thought that something happened to Jill. They either murdered her or they killed her on accident. And they couldn't explain just one twin around the house. That's why they abandoned me." – Paul (14:11)

5. The Reconnection with the Fronczaks and Dora’s Perspective (23:22–24:31)

• The revelation that Paul was not the kidnapped baby initially hurt his relationship with his adoptive parents, especially as DNA led him to the real Paul Fronczak.
• Dora, Paul’s adoptive mother, later opens up: "I owe you a big apology. I only thought about this from my point of view as having my child kidnapped. I never thought about you and your side and what you're going through." – Paul recounting Dora (23:45)
• Paul emphasizes how, in the 1960s, trust in authorities led people to accept official answers without question.

6. Finding the Real Paul Fronczak (25:37–29:16)

• In 2019, with the help of DNA sites, Paul identifies and contacts Kevin Beatty, the biological son abducted from Chicago.
• "We found the real Paul in 2019... He wanted nothing to do with this. This was right when COVID was happening, and right when he found out that he was really Paul Fronczak, he was diagnosed with a very aggressive cancer." – Paul (26:05)
• Paul manages to fulfill his promise to Dora by connecting her with her biological son through phone calls before Kevin’s death in 2020.

7. Theories About the Kidnapper (29:46–31:46)

• Paul investigates the woman who raised the real Paul (Lorraine Fountain), a known con artist with mob ties, as a possible perpetrator or accomplice in the abduction.
• "She was a high priced escort for the mob. Numerous arrests for prostitution and mob run hotels... I believe she was paid to kidnap that child." – Paul (31:11)
• Ongoing investigation with tantalizing clues but no confirmation yet.

8. Identity and Ongoing Search (37:02–38:24)

• Paul continues to search for Jill, utilizing conventional and unconventional means, including consulting psychics.
• "As humans, all we have is our identity. And if you don't have that, what do you really have?" – Paul (38:24)
• He reminds listeners that he helps others with similar cases for free through his podcast, The Fronczak Files.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the impact of secrets and uncovering the past:
  • "You can never predict how someone will respond to a decades old secret being resurfaced." – Hannah Smith (15:09)
• Sibling reaction to DNA truth:
  • "My sister and brother said nothing... like they didn't want to believe it. Denial of me, too." – Paul (14:52)
• On being glad to have been abandoned, ironically:
  • "I'm really glad that I was abandoned. How many times have you heard that?" – Paul (12:44)
• On different approaches to discovering biological family:
  • "Every time we help someone, I'm always blown away by their reaction of what they want to do next... A lot of times they're like, oh, I'm fine. I don't want to...” – Paul (17:33)
• On his multiple identities:
  • "I mean, legally I'm still Jack Thomas Rosenthal... But Paul Joseph Fronczak passed away, so I feel like I have a dead man's name." – Paul (37:39)
• On the story’s twists:
  • "It is definitely a story that is stranger than fiction. You really couldn't write this one..." – Patia Eaton (38:03)

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Reflective Discussion and Broader Impact

Reflections on Hospital Security and Modern Implications (42:25–47:05)

• The hosts discuss how the infamous Fronczak case and other past hospital abductions have led to major security reforms in maternity wards.
• They compare stories like “Switched at Birth” and current IVF mix-ups to illustrate how fragile and precious identity truly is.
• "Now, babies cannot be transported in a nurse's arms. There's video surveillance... everything is under surveillance, as it should be in a hospital." – Patia (43:28)
• The emotional and ethical complexity of discovering true parentage, especially through fertility treatments, is discussed.

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Timestamps of Key Sections

• Paul discovers he had a twin sister Jill: 04:21–06:12
• Family neglect and abuse details: 08:35–10:17
• Confronting siblings, the search for connection: 11:06–12:56
• Piecing together Jill’s fate: 13:40–14:27
• Dora’s perspective and apology: 23:22–24:31
• Locating the real Paul Fronczak (Kevin Beatty): 25:37–29:16
• Mob, conspiracy, kidnapper theories: 29:46–31:46
• Identity, ongoing search, value of helping others: 37:02–38:24
• Closing reflections and hospital security: 42:25–47:05

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Tone & Takeaways

With empathy, tenacity, and an openness to painful truths, Paul Fronczak’s investigation exposes not only personal identity mysteries but broader questions about family, trauma, and resilience. Hannah and Patia guide the listener through each twist, always centering the humanity behind the headlines.

Returning to the series’ core premise—what happens when someone is dropped in a story they didn’t start—the conclusion to Paul’s saga is still unwritten: Jill remains missing, the kidnapper unmasked, but the pursuit of truth and healing continues. The episode leaves listeners with both a sense of closure and the awareness that some ripple effects of crime can last lifetimes.

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Need help investigating your own identity or story? Paul encourages listeners to reach out to The Fronczak Files—help is free.

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Transcript

[Patia Eaton]

This is exactly right.

[Hannah Smith]

Since he got out, bad things keep happening.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

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[Patia Eaton]

He's coming after my family.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Paul Jack Fronczak]

But that's weird.

[Hannah Smith]

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[Patia Eaton]

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[Hannah Smith]

Taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Patia Eaton]

The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of the speaker and do not necessarily represent the Knife or exactly right media.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I promised my mom not only will I find her kidnapped child, which we did, but I'm going to find the kidnapper as well. And we are so close to that right now. Oh my God.

[Hannah Smith]

Welcome to the Knife. I'm Hannah Smith.

[Patia Eaton]

I'm Patia Eaton. This is part two of a two episode series where we're speaking with Paul Fronczak. If you have not heard part one, we recommend you go back and listen to that now. We will be back at the end of the episode to discuss the series.

[Hannah Smith]

Let's get into part two. When Paul Fronczak was 10 years old, snooping in the attic looking for Christmas presents, he stumbled upon an old newspaper article and was shocked to see his name. He was told that when he was only one day old. In 1964, he was kidnapped from Michael Reese Hospital in Chicago. And then he was missing for almost two years before being found and returned to his parents. It wasn't until Paul was an adult that he discovered that he wasn't actually biologically related to his parents, Dora and Chester Fronczak. He was the baby found in New Jersey, but he was not the same baby stolen from the Chicago hospital. He made that discovery in 2012, and it launched Paul's search for his biological family. At that point, all he knew is that he wasn't Paul Fronczak, not the original Paul Fronczak. But he didn't know who he was. He didn't know his name. He didn't even know his date of birth. Then in 2017, he discovered his original name, Jack Rosenthal. And not just that. He learned he had a twin sister, Jill. They were born in October of 1963, which made him six months older than Dora Fronczak's baby son, Paul, who was kidnapped from Chicago. Paul immediately began looking for his twin, Jill, but no one seemed to know where she was.

[Patia Eaton]

What did it feel like to have gone through this search for your own identity, but then to find that you have a twin?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I just wanted to find her. I wanted to find out more about who I was, who my family was. How did I end up abandoned on the street in Newark, New Jersey, with a black eye?

[Patia Eaton]

You know, her name is Jill. So, twins, Jack and Jill Rosenthal. Rosenthal. Jack and Jill Rosenthal. And so was there happiness in learning you had a twin, or was there just sort of this neutral. Just want to find more information?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So honestly, the way I've handled this whole thing, it's like it's not my life. I'm an investigator investigating someone else's life. And so to me, it was another mystery that I had to tackle. I had to solve this part as well. I never just sat there and thought, oh, I got a twin that's missing. Oh, my God, this is horrible. I didn't have time for that. There's a girl out there that's missing. I gotta find her.

[Hannah Smith]

When Paul says that Jill is missing, he means that there is a record of Jill as a baby alongside Jack. And then nothing. Baby Jack had been left in a stroller outside a department store in Newark in 1965. And it seemed that Jill disappeared around the same time. Was she left in a different stroller, found by someone else? Was there a grown woman walking around somewhere who had no idea about her biological identity, no idea that she was Jill Rosenthal. By this point, Paul's story had been covered by multiple News outlets, including 2020. It had captured the attention of many people in the nation. And so Paul decided to ask them for help. He asked the public for tips. Help him find Jill.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Pleading for information, tips. Anybody out there that knows something. I wanted to work with necmec, the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. In order to do that, I had to open a police report, a missing persons case on Jill and the process of all this. When I went to New York, I met this guy named Alex, Alex Tresniaowski. He's a writer. He worked for People magazine investigation, writing all that good stuff. He liked my story, and he asked me if I ever thought about writing a book. I hadn't, but people were writing it to me every day. Your story is inspiring me to start my own journey. I wish you would write a book about this because you could help so many people. So we decided to form a partnership and start writing a book. We wrote it as we were learning things. So my first book, the Foundling, is written like, you're on the journey with me. When I'm digging a grave, you're digging it with me. We're knocking on doors, we're being, you know, assaulted. Whatever. You're, you're with us because we would do something during the day, go back and write it down. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted people to really appreciate the journey that we were on in order to start their own journeys.

[Hannah Smith]

In Paul's first book, the Foundling, he writes about the years he spent searching for the missing people of his past, for his own family members and, by extension, his identity. He writes about becoming a father and suddenly wanting answers about his past and his medical history, not just for himself, but also for his daughter. That doesn't mean the task of digging up the past was easy. There were answers he wanted that seemed determined to stay hidden forever. He writes, I spent many dark, desperate nights staring at a computer screen, hunting for hours without knowing what I was hunting for. There were times it felt like I was being pulled into a black hole, a from everything that was good in my life and toward an endless nothing. Moments when I could feel my mission turning into an obsession, could feel myself becoming withdrawn, isolated, angry. Paul writes about the toll this obsession took on his relationships, including those with his parents, his brother, and his then wife, Michelle. But Paul could just not let it go. He had to find answers. And eventually he did, starting with his biological parents. But he quickly learned that finding answers does not equate to finding out good news.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I learned quite a bit, and none of it's good. I had two older sisters and a younger brother. For some reason, they just wanted to get rid of Jack and Jill. They kept us in a dark room upstairs. No food, no water, dirty diapers. I had a black eye. Jill didn't speak. We were fortunate enough this one lady who babysat us one evening when she was in high school remembered this and reached out to me and said, I know who you are. I actually watched you and your sister one night.

[Hannah Smith]

In the documentary the Lost Sons that neighbor Paul mentioned who babysat him when she was a teenager, is interviewed. The picture she paints is bleak. She was asked to babysit the two older girls one evening. She said she didn't even know there were babies in the house until she wandered upstairs and found Jack and Jill isolated in a room with no toys, Just two bear cribs. She said they were dirty and hungry, and they looked scared. Jack had a black eye. She cleaned them up and took care of the twins until their parents came home early the next morning, smelling of alcohol. She remembers their mom being angry that she'd ever gone upstairs and interacted with the twins at all. She came away with the distinct impression that this type of neglect was routine in that household. She was alarmed by what she saw, but as a teenager, she didn't know what to do or who to tell about it. But she'd never stopped thinking about those twins. All these years later.

[Patia Eaton]

How did you learn this information about your childhood? Like, where did that information come to you from?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

From meeting relatives, Lenny, his family, people from my mom's side of the family, the Duncan side. You know, firsthand accounts of how things were and, you know, they've actually seen the twins and how we were treated, mistreated. And then we vanished.

[Patia Eaton]

And so you had two older sisters.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Correct.

[Patia Eaton]

Were you able to reach them?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So when has passed away, I got to meet the other one.

[Hannah Smith]

That's right. Paul found his living biological sister. She was older than him, born in 1961. This means she would have been about four years old when Jack and his twin Jill were abandoned. Would she remember that she once had twin siblings who just disappeared? Paul looked up his sister's information. She was still living in New Jersey.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I just went to her house in Atlantic City.

[Patia Eaton]

You literally went to her house? Yeah.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

She wouldn't answer the phone.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, my God. Okay. I love it.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So I'm in there in Atlantic City. I'm knocking on her door, and there's no answer. And I'm knocking and I'm thinking all these scenarios in my head. Someone's going to shoot a shotgun through the door or something. You don't know. Right. So after about 10 minutes of knocking, she finally answered the door. I said, I'm Paul. I'm actually Jack, your brother. She goes, I know who you are. Come on in. Came in. We talked for about a half an hour. She told me stories about growing up in the family and how it was and how my parents were difficult, how when my dad passed away no one went to his funeral, things like that. And I thought we were getting along pretty well. It was a good conversation. So we agreed to meet the next day for lunch. Came back the next day. She didn't answer the door, didn't answer the phone, and that was it. My younger brother, who I was talking with on the phone and emailing, he called the same day and said, I think this is a scam. I don't care if you're my brother or not. I want nothing to do with you.

[Patia Eaton]

A scam because it's like what were. You weren't asking them for money, Right?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Exactly.

[Patia Eaton]

And it sounds like they're aware that your parents were difficult people and that it was not a perfect. But did they have an experience with your parents that they could tell you about?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

My younger brother told me that it was a very dysfunctional family. They wouldn't do anything together. There was no love in that family. I mean, I know I dodged many bullets, put it that way. I'm so thankful I was raised by the Froncax. I actually got to interview my older sister's first husband and it was a very eye opening interview. Just an amazing guy. He has since passed away, but I'm really glad that I was abandoned. How many times have you heard that?

[Patia Eaton]

Never. But it's like, it's so strange how this has all played out in that I think the silver lining is that you grew up in a household where you were wanted.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah. It's an amazing thing. I highly recommend it.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. It's sad to think about what happened in that house.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

The things Paul learned about the first year of his life were not pleasant. It's a story of neglect, abuse and dysfunction. His investigation put him in contact with multiple people who remembered that time. Although there is still a lot of missing information, he also heard some alarming theories about what might have happened to Jill.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I did hear a story from multiple people that actually witnessed this. They came and surprised my parents one day. They wanted to See the twins? My mom was drunk. My mom was a very big drinker. Said, you want to see the twins? She went upstairs, she got us. She came down the stairs. She was holding Jill and I by our wrists. We were naked like little chickens. Got to the third step and just dropped us on the floor. We bounced on the floor. My uncle said I jumped up and ran over and hugged him and Jill just laid on the floor. So a lot of the people that we talked to thought that something happened to Jill. They either murdered her or they killed her on accident. And they couldn't explain just one twin around the house. That's why they abandoned me.

[Hannah Smith]

But Paul wondered, how can you go from having twins to suddenly not having twins? How did his parents explain this away to their family members and neighbors?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So my parents lied to everyone in the family. When someone would ask where the twins were, they would say, the other side of the family's watching them.

[Patia Eaton]

What did your sister and your brother say about Jill, if anything or what they thought happened?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Nothing.

[Patia Eaton]

When you brought her up to them, did they just literally say nothing?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah, like they didn't want to believe it. Denial of me, too.

[Patia Eaton]

Denial of you actually being their brother?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah. In my own. My own thought process, they're hiding something.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Because why else would you shut family out?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

It's hard to imagine doing that.

[Hannah Smith]

Paul said his older sister claimed not to remember him or Jill. She was only four years old when they disappeared. But Paul isn't convinced that she's being totally transparent. Regardless, she stopped speaking with him. Paul had another older sister who died when she was young. And he has a biological younger brother who likely would not remember the twins anyway. But his brother has also stopped speaking with him. Paul can't help but wonder, do they know something more about Jill? It's also possible that digging up the past and their difficult childhoods is just too much to ask. One thing Paul has learned on this journey is that you can never predict how someone will respond to a decades old secret being resurfaced. It makes me think about that moment Paul told us about of his mother, Dora Fronczak, being told in 1966 that her kidnapped son had been found in New Jersey, of all places, of the moment when the FBI placed her into a room with an abandoned baby boy and asked her if that was her son Paul.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So they were put in the room, and as soon as they brought me in, Mrs. Fronczak was quoted as saying, oh, my God, that's my baby. So I asked my mom about that we didn't talk about this for a long time, but just a couple of years ago, she started opening up to me and actually talking about these things, which is so good, because you can't keep that inside. I asked her, did you really think I was your child? She said that the FBI was a known authority back then. So you believed them? Not so much anymore, I don't think. But back then, you did, and they're telling you, this is your child. So she said that she could have said, I'm not really sure. Have me be put back in the system and always wonder what happened to me. Or she could say, yeah, that's my kidnapped child, because I very well could have been. And that's what she decided to do, because in her heart, she wanted me to be her kidnapped child.

[Patia Eaton]

You don't know how someone's going to respond to difficult circumstances. It's like some people respond very differently. And she had the world watching, and she said, that's my son, and accepted this. And then you have, on the other end of the spectrum, siblings who are, it sounds like, still in pretty full denial.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

You know, it blows your mind. Our podcast, the Frozen Files, we actually help people find their true identities. We've helped a lot of people, and every time we help someone, I'm always blown away by their reaction of what they want to do next. You think, oh, my God, yeah, let's notify these people, you know, you found my biological mom. Let's notify her. A lot of times they're like, oh, I'm fine. This the way this is. I don't want to. You know, I'm like, how can you not see it through? You know? Because they might want that information too.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, everyone is so different in the way that they process their own life.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Blows your mind every time whenever you think you're going to get an answer and it comes out completely different. You're like, I didn't see that coming.

[Malcolm Glebel]

Hello? Hello, this is Malcolm Glebel from Smart Talks with IBM. Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari hp.

[Hannah Smith]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the tifosi, the Ferrari superfans. In the digital age.

[Hannah Smith]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community, and ultimately, they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which is a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Hannah Smith]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology. And digital channels, are they enabled to create a deeper connection with our fans?

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com Ferrari

[Hannah Smith]

since he got out, bad things keep happening.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Cape Fear A new series is streaming June 5th on Apple TV. Why would I want to hurt you? Starring Academy Award winner Javier Bardem. Why? And Academy Academy Award nominee Amy Adams.

[Patia Eaton]

He is coming after my family

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Kate fear streaming June 5th on Apple TV.

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[Hannah Smith]

How did this missing baby in Chicago, Illinois become linked with this found baby in Newark, New Jersey? An important factor that Paul learned is that during the initial search by law enforcement into the foundling baby's identity, part of that search included looking over records of missing children. But importantly, the Rosenthals had not reported Jack and Jill missing, so law enforcement had no idea that there were two children missing from a home right there in Newark, New Jersey. Paul also learned that the news about the foundling in the stroller in Newark was not widely reported on.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So I was abandoned. Originally, the police reports that we saw in the newspaper was that I was abandoned July 2, 1965. But we've just learned that it was actually July 7. So once again, there was a discrepancy in the facts. We couldn't find anything in the newspapers, even though the police out there said that they ran a huge campaign trying to find the parents of this abandoned child. I don't think they did. So in the newspaper articles it said that I was named Scott McKinley. Because when I was found abandoned, I was placed in a foster care house. I was there for a year. They baptized me and named me Scott McKinley, and they wanted to adopt me. The FBI showed up and said, that's the kidnapped child from Chicago. We were told originally that the police kind of connected the dots between the missing child in Chicago and Scott McKinley, who was abandoned in Newark, New Jersey. But we just recently found out also that it was actually a social worker that was working with someone that decided to put that out there. So when the Rosenthals got rid of Jack and Jill, they never alerted anybody.

[Patia Eaton]

Right.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

That wasn't in the news or anything.

[Hannah Smith]

If it weren't for DNA testing, Paul says there's almost no way the dots would ever have been connected that he was born Jack Rosenthal. The search for Jill and for Paul Fronczak and Paul's kidnapper continued for a time. It created a rift between Paul and his parents, Dora and Chester Fronczak. But eventually they were able to repair the relationship.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

When I started this journey, they wanted nothing to do with it. Nothing. We didn't talk for a couple of years. My father passed away in 2017. After he passed away, my mom started being a little bit more open to talking about things, and I'm very grateful for that. She said, I owe you a big apology. I only thought about this from my point of view as having my child kidnapped. I never thought about you and your side and what you're going through. She said, this is fascinating, and I want to be a part of this.

[Patia Eaton]

It's really admirable. You know, I think especially maybe in her generation, to be able to say, to look inward at the most difficult thing that ever happened to you and look beyond how it impacted you. You know, not everyone can do that and sounds like she did. And I think that's really a powerful thing and probably a gift to hear that from this person that you didn't want to hurt by finding out who

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

you were, has wanted to find her kidnapped child.

[Patia Eaton]

So as your mom is opening up to you, did she ever express any doubts that she had over the years

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

as you got older about me being her biological son? She just said that I was a little different. I mean, I wasn't a fronc. I don't know what you believe in about, you know, DNA. Nurture versus nature. I am a nature person. I believe that our personalities, our talents, they're all in our DNA. It's not learned. And I was definitely not like they were.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I mean, to Me, as an outsider looking in, you would say that's probably not your biological child. But back then, people weren't talking about that kind of stuff. DNA wasn't a thing like it is now.

[Patia Eaton]

And how did it impact your parents? Because in the way that, you know, you hadn't found the real Paul. When you had to tell them that you were not their son, did they speak to you about any feelings around that?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

We didn't talk for about two years, yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

And so you're trying to learn about yourself, but you're simultaneously trying to find the real Paul Fronczak.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Correct.

[Patia Eaton]

How do you do it?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

We did it. We did it. It was a process, knocking on doors, you know, doing everything that you can. But there's also luck.

[Hannah Smith]

Paul never stopped looking for the other Paul Fronczak, his parents biological son who was kidnapped in 1964. Then in 2019, there was a crack in the case. He found a man named Kevin Beatty.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I had this person email me, I think I know who you're looking for. But this is all I'm going to tell you. Turns out that the real Paul, Kevin Beatty, his daughters put their DNA on a site. They matched up to Dave Fronczak as Dave being their uncle, your brother. Yeah. So when that happened, we knew immediately that that was Paul, but Dave never told me this. So we found the real Paul in 2019. So when we found him, I knew it was him immediately because the questions I was asking and the family names and things that were popping up, he wanted nothing to do with this. This is right when Covid was happening and right when he found out that he was really Paul Fronczak. He was diagnosed with a very aggressive cancer. So he finds out he's Paul, it's Covid, he's in a small town in Michigan. They can't leave Michigan.

[Patia Eaton]

Yet again.

[Hannah Smith]

Here was a huge discovery that was years in the making. Paul had promised his mother he would find her missing child. And now he had. But any dreams of meeting up in person and some big happy reunion turned out to be unrealistic. The world was in chaos because of COVID and the man who was raised as Kevin Beatty, but who was biologically the original Paul Fronczak was now fighting for his life. He had received a cancer diagnosis and the outcome did not look good. Still, Paul was determined to connect his mother, Dora, to her biological son.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I was able to have my mom and him talk on the phone all I wanted. I promised my mom when I started this that I just wanted her to connect with her biological son. I was hoping they could meet, but that was off the table. But the first time they talked, I was actually in Chicago with my daughter. We were visiting, and the phone rang, and I heard her pick up the phone and say, hi, Kevin. My daughter and I are high fiving. Oh, my God, they're talking. This is so amazing, you know? And that's all he wanted. I wanted them to connect, and they were able to connect. My mom got to speak with him a few more times. He passed away a day before his birthday on April 25, 2020. His birthday was April 26. My mom got to say goodbye to him.

[Hannah Smith]

Paul's mother, Dora Fronczak, participated in the documentary. She says that Kevin Beatty, her long lost biological son, called her to wish her a Merry Christmas, and they both hoped they could meet in person someday. Sadly, that did not happen because Kevin passed away shortly after. Dora also expressed gratitude that she at least got to speak to her son on the phone after all of those years. And she said that she was grateful to have raised Paul Jack Rosenthal, who she loves and is her son, despite the DNA results. Interestingly, Kevin Beatty's obituary lists his date of birth as March 14, 1964, although we now know that he was actually born on April 26, 1964, at Michael Reese Hospital in Chicago to Dora and Chester Fronczak, who he was with for just one day before being stolen away.

[Patia Eaton]

Did he accept that he was this other person?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

He had to. But he. I don't think he really cared. I mean, he was just trying to survive.

[Patia Eaton]

What did he believe about his life until you brought him this information?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So he was raised by a woman named Lorraine Fountain, who told him that his father was a pro football player and just left. Left the family.

[Patia Eaton]

Any ties with Lorraine to this nurse that wasn't a nurse.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So Lorraine Fountain was a career criminal. We found so many police records, so many things on this. She was a grifter, con person since she was, like, late teens, early 20s, working for companies, embezzling money, forging checks. She was put in prison.

[Patia Eaton]

Is she alive when you reach out to Kevin and let him know that he is Paul?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

No. She passed away before that, unfortunately.

[Hannah Smith]

At first, Paul wondered if Kevin's mom, Lorraine, was the woman who posed as a nurse and kidnapped baby Paul in 1964. Did she go into that hospital looking for a baby she could take and raise as her own? The more Paul learned, the more he has become convinced that it was not Lorraine who kidnapped baby Paul. But he says that he is close to cracking the case.

[Patia Eaton]

Did she fit the physical description of the nurse?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

So we didn't think she did it first. We had this other person of interest that we just cleared because we got another firsthand account on this person that we thought was the kidnapper. But now I'm starting to think that she might actually fit the profile. But I believe she was paid to kidnap that child. There's mob ties in Chicago. She was a high priced escort for the mob. Numerous arrests for prostitution and mob run hotels.

[Patia Eaton]

This story has everything, Truly, but like she's a career criminal. So the idea is that either she bought or quote, adopted Kevin or she was behind it from the beginning.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I think she was either. If she didn't do the kidnapping, she was paid to raise Paul because whoever wanted that child didn't realize the heat that was going to come across on that kidnapping and they backed out. And for some reason, they didn't just get rid of the baby. Thank God, they paid someone else to raise him.

[Patia Eaton]

Did you get any sort of reaction from Kevin to this news?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

At first, disbelief. But the proof is in the DNA. His daughters wanted nothing to do with me. They wanted the story to go away. I sent Kevin a copy of my book and a copy of his birth certificate. I was told secondhand that he actually read the book, he enjoyed it and he let someone else read it. I think if he wasn't dealing with COVID and the cancer, I think it might have been a different possibility.

[Patia Eaton]

What did he do for a living? What was his life like?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

He was a machinist, just like Chester.

[Patia Eaton]

Isn't that amazing?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah. DNA.

[Patia Eaton]

Truly and his daughters, have they sensed that initial outreach, have they had any sort of change of part about being in contact with you?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Nope, none at all. I believe that they wanted to preserve this image of their grandma, even though we have so much proof that she was a horrible person, just a career criminal, just not a good person. I mean, she's raising a kidnapped child with a fake birth certificate, you know, I mean, come on.

[Patia Eaton]

Hello?

[Malcolm Glebel]

Hello, this is Malcolm Glebel from Smart talks with IBM. Today we're diving into a fascinating conversation with Stefano Pallard, head of fan development for Scuderia Ferrari hp.

[Hannah Smith]

Your pronunciation is strongly American. It's more Scuderia Ferrari.

[Malcolm Glebel]

I'm still working on rolling my R's, but what I was able to learn from Stefano was the importance of engaging the Tifosi, the Ferrari super in the digital age.

[Hannah Smith]

Ferrari fans and super fans want to be part of something, want to belong to something. So they want to be part of a community, and ultimately they want to be part of a winning team.

[Malcolm Glebel]

You've got Ferrari, which. Which is a long history, design history, and now you're interacting in a kind of digital space. I'm curious how you balance those two traditions.

[Hannah Smith]

When it comes to fan engagement, it's really digital technology. And digital channels are being able to create a deeper connection with our fans.

[Malcolm Glebel]

To learn more about how Ferrari and IBM are using technology to build deeper connections with fans, visit IBM.com Ferrari

[Hannah Smith]

since he got out, bad things keep happening.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Cape Fear, a new series is streaming June 5th on Apple TV. Why would I want to hurt you? Starring Academy Award winner Javier Bardem and Academy Award nominee Amy Adams.

[Patia Eaton]

He is coming after my family.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Kate fear. Streaming June 5th on Apple TV.

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[Hannah Smith]

There are still ongoing mysteries in Paul's story. One of those is Jill. Paul hopes and believes that Jill is still alive and out there waiting to be found. He discusses his search for Jill on his podcast, the Fronczak Files.

[Patia Eaton]

So what are you continuing to do as far as your story? What are you hoping to close the loop on?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Okay, so right now, we're still actively pursuing finding Jill. I don't know if you believe in psychics and all that, but I do. And I've talked to quite a few who had no idea who I was. And they all said that I've got a part of me that is out there that hasn't crossed over, which I'm assuming is Jill.

[Patia Eaton]

You're sure they don't know who you are?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah, I mean, how could they, right? That was very skeptical.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, sorry about that. No, I mean, I. I was. Yeah, it's fair to say I'm very skeptical of psychics But I also have no judgment about people seeking answers unconventionally. I mean, there's a lot of things about the universe I'm sure I don't understand. Okay, so you're trying to find Jill. That is priority one.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yes. And the kidnapper.

[Patia Eaton]

And the kidnapper.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I promised my mom, Dora Fronczak, not only will I find her kidnapped child, which we did, but I'm gonna find the kidnapper as well. And we are so close to that right now. Oh, my God.

[Patia Eaton]

And you think you're zeroing in?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yes. We're so close.

[Patia Eaton]

Like, do you have someone in mind?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

No spoilers.

[Patia Eaton]

And you still go by Paul Fronczak, but you prefer to be called Jack or illegally. What is your name? Can I ask you?

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah. I mean, legally, I'm still Jack Thomas Rosenthal.

[Patia Eaton]

Right. It's like both.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

I'm still Paul Joseph Fronczak. Right. But Paul Joseph Rach passed away, so I feel like I have a dead man's name.

[Hannah Smith]

Right.

[Patia Eaton]

Because Kevin Beatty is Paul and he's passed. Yeah.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah. I've got my birth certificate. Jack Thomas Rosenthal. I've got Paul Joseph's birth certificate. I mean, I can be anybody.

[Patia Eaton]

Anybody.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Wow. It's definitely a story that is stranger than fiction. You really couldn't write this one, and I think it's awesome that you're pursuing it as heavily as you are and helping people along the way who are maybe finding themselves in a similar situation of not knowing who they really are, because that could be a very lonely place.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

It is. As humans, all we have is our identity. And if you don't have that, what do you really have? And if any of your listeners out there have any questions about their identity or know someone that does and they're looking for help, we don't charge. We do everything for free at the Froncag Files. Check us out.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, great. Well, thank you so much.

[Hannah Smith]

What a whirlwind of a story. There were so many twists and turns out. I kept thinking, this is gonna be done. And then it would be like another hurdle.

[Patia Eaton]

I know. And it's ongoing. Which is also, as a listener, exciting to have gotten this far and know that he's still working on figuring out who that nurse or fake nurse was that took him. But, I mean.

[Hannah Smith]

And looking for his twin sister.

[Patia Eaton]

And looking for his twin sister.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

I mean, that part of the story wrecked me because also, just thinking about, you know, Paul lived for so much of his life without knowing who he really was, and then struggling to find biological connections and to think that all that time he had a twin, which just from what I've heard about being a twin, it's like the closest connection you could have.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. That's wild. The twin part was really surprising to me. You hear about people discovering family members now more with, like, DNA databases, and oftentimes we hear about the sparkly stories of like, oh, my gosh, I found a long lost sibling and we've reconnected. And obviously that's beautiful, but, you know, the reality is you don't know who you're going to find. And I thought that Paul's approach was great. Like, he really is committed to finding out the truth, but also he was like, I'm glad that I was raised by the family who raised me.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. And on the note of not knowing what you're gonna find, you know, it's interesting, I thought listening to Paul's story when he was 10 years old and finding this out, what a mystery, what an adventure. I think that's how I would have felt as a 10 year old. But then, you know, you get older and you realize, like, there are parts of people's lives they truly want to leave behind.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

And for him to be pursuing, you know, the truth and find out about his actual family. I shouldn't say actual family, but his biological family, you know, that his older sister just sort of ghosted shut the door, like, was done with it. I mean, I don't know her story and everything she went through, and maybe she has her reasons, but just there are people who want more information and there are people who just want to leave things in the past. Yeah. And I thought it was also just really touching that one of Paul's immediate goals, upon learning that he actually wasn't who he was always told that he was, was finding his mother Dora's missing biological son.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Because the baby that was kidnapped in the hospital, Paul, the original Paul, was never returned.

[Patia Eaton]

Was never returned to her. And then the fact that the Paul Jack Fronczak that we interviewed, who is actually Jack Rosenthal, was able to connect Dora to her missing son shortly before he passed, I mean, that is like an indescribable feeling. What a special gift to give her and maybe to give him, I don't know, but, like, how amazing is that? And something that we didn't really have time to cover in the episode, but that I think is important is that hospital security has changed so drastically since the 1960s, and some of those changes were a result of the Paul Frank Sack abduction. And, you know, in this story, baby Paul was abducted by a nurse. Well, not a nurse. Someone who dressed as a nurse who walked into the hospital and walked out with the baby.

[Hannah Smith]

And you cannot imagine someone being able to do that today.

[Patia Eaton]

No way. And she wasn't wearing a nurse's cap. But beyond that, no. You know, that was the only, like, moment of, huh, I wonder. So today I looked it up and I mean, I've experienced some of this having had a baby in a hospital. I've seen it all in practice, too. You have to sign in at a reception desk. You get a bracelet on your wrist. I believe my husband also had a bracelet on his wrist, but I think that's common. And then you have to show your identification. The nurses have to use access cards to get in and out of the maternity ward. Babies cannot be transported in a nurse's arms. A nurse can't just pick up a baby and carry the baby down the roadway. Yeah, that needs to be in a hospital bassinet. You know, I'm sure there are emergency situations and all kinds of exceptions, but that is the standard practice. You know, we also now that it' swe've obviously jumped forward many decades since the 60s, but we have video surveillance. You know, everything is under surveillance, as it should be in a hospital.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, definitely. So this reminded me when you're talking about these mishaps that happened at hospitals in maternity wards before sort of modern surveillance. And did you ever listen to. There was a great this American Life episode that has always stuck with me. It's called Switched at Birth, and it's about two baby girls born in the same hospital in 1951. And the infants were accidentally switched and sent home with the wrong family. So they were both born, you know, taken to the nursery. And somehow the hospital staff, when returning the baby to the mother, the parents, they switched them. They were born like a child such the same time, and they were never unswitched.

[Patia Eaton]

When did they realize that they had been switched?

[Hannah Smith]

It's interesting because they interview the adult women in this episode. It's so good. But later, one of them, like, talks to her mother, who raised her, who's not her biological mother. And it's also like, it was the 50s, you know, such a different time. That mother said within, like a day or two, bringing that baby home, she was like, this is not my baby. I know this isn't my baby. And she told her husband something happened. This is not my baby. We need to go back to the hospital. And her husband refused to do it because he Was like, that would embarrass the doctor. We're not going to make a scuffle about it.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, my gosh, no.

[Hannah Smith]

Can you believe that?

[Patia Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

And so both of these people were raised in these families that were not their biological families and didn't discover it until they were adults at time. The. So wild.

[Patia Eaton]

That is the stuff of nightmares. I mean, my kid, she didn't even leave my room. Like, there was no nursery that she was being sent to. And maybe some. I think some hospitals still offer that, but less and less. And. Yeah, all of her testing right in front of me.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

I mean, even shortly after I gave birth to her, she had fluid in her lungs. They rushed someone into the room to get the fluid out. It wasn't. They still didn't take her anywhere because she didn't yet have a little tag. Yeah. A little bracelet on her ankle or whatever to that tag. Yeah. It's so different now. That's crazy. I have to listen to that episode. I mean, I've listened to so many episodes of this American Life. I mean, they're so good, but. Yeah, I'll have to check that one out. I mean, you hear about it these days in the world of sometimes fertility treatment and embryos. And that is.

[Hannah Smith]

There was a. There was an article about it recently, in the last.

[Patia Eaton]

Very recently.

[Hannah Smith]

That was heartbreaking. Oh, my gosh.

[Patia Eaton]

There was another one a couple weeks ago. It was a couple that, you know, they thought they were using their own embryo, and it was not their embryo. And it was very apparent that it was not their embryo when the child was born.

[Hannah Smith]

So this person is pregnant, they go through all of pregnancy, they deliver, and then look at this baby, and it's like, that's not my baby. Because I'm guessing it's a different ethnicity.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. It's a white couple, and the baby is not white, and it's very obviously not their biological baby. But I'm not so familiar with the story, but last I read, they're actually keeping the baby.

[Hannah Smith]

Well, yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

I mean, what do you. Well, I think sometimes the parents who created that embryo can contest it and say no. And I think that has happened.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. So devastating.

[Hannah Smith]

Wild.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

But, you know, the feeling of carrying a baby, there's a lot of ways to go about being a parent, but pregnancy, you know, whether it's your embryo or not, I mean, it really. I don't know, at least for me, like, I felt very connected and this is my biological child, but I still think that there's just something about knowing your body is caring for something and building something. It's an intense connection.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I think it would be so trippy to go through that and then have this baby. And it's not your biological baby, which you thought it was, but in some senses, in many senses, maybe it's your baby. And so I don't know that it really matters, but it would feel like a very bizarre experience. I can't even imagine.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Just the fear. Like, what if the other couple wants the baby?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And the article that we both read, I can't remember what it's called in that situation. It happened to two couples and their embryos were swapped.

[Patia Eaton]

Right, right.

[Hannah Smith]

And they both ended up getting pregnant and like, you know, having a baby. And so in that scenario, I think they end up switching the babies.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh my gosh.

[Hannah Smith]

But it's still just like this very emotional thing. But that's not always the case. Right. Like you might get someone else's embryo, but then it's not like your embryo's out there as a baby form to whatever.

[Patia Eaton]

Like that was more a coincidence.

[Hannah Smith]

That was a coincidence. Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Gosh, that was so intense. Yeah. That article I think was in the New York Times, the one that we read about. And Should I look it up? Yeah, I should look it up.

[Hannah Smith]

There's like so many.

[Patia Eaton]

There's so many. There's so many.

[Paul Jack Fronczak]

Oh, God.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, it is the New York Times. It's called an IVF mix up and an impossible choice. It's a really interesting read. If you are interested, go check it out. Well, that was our two parter. Thank you so much to Paul Jack Fronczak for speaking with us.

[Patia Eaton]

What a story. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is the knifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can follow us on Instagram henifpodcast or bluesky athenife podcast.

[Hannah Smith]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith

[Patia Eaton]

and me, Peisha Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breyfogle and Alexis Amorosi.

[Hannah Smith]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.

[Patia Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Hannah Smith]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Patia Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

[Hannah Smith]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

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[Patia Eaton]

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[Paul Jack Fronczak]

on Paramount, the acclaimed series from executive producer Lena Waithe reaches its final chapter. THE Shy for seven seasons, these stories, these streets, this community have stayed with us. Now it all leads to this. As friendships are tested, families evolve, and secrets refuse to stay buried, one thing is certain. The Shy is more than just a series. It's a legacy. Don't miss the final season of the Shy, now streaming on the Paramount Premium Plan.