My Body Is The Crime Scene

Summary

Episode Summary: "My Body Is The Crime Scene"

Podcast: The Knife: A True Crime Podcast
Hosts: Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton
Release Date: August 7, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "My Body Is The Crime Scene," hosts Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton delve deep into the harrowing experience of Cassie, a young woman whose life was irrevocably changed after a night that began with excitement and ended in trauma. This episode explores not only the immediate aftermath of the crime but also the prolonged legal battles and emotional toll Cassie endured.

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Background: Cassie's College Life

Cassie, originating from Portland, Oregon, describes her transition from a nurturing suburban upbringing to the vibrant yet challenging environment of Oregon State University (OSU). Initially excited about the newfound independence and freedom college promised, Cassie's freshman year was marked by homesickness, prompting her to transfer to Portland State in the fall of 2007. This move allowed her to maintain proximity to her family while still engaging with friends at OSU's famed Greek Row.

Cassie Eaton [03:04]: "I was looking forward to just, I guess freedom is the best way to kind of that independence and freedom of making my own choices."

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The Fateful Night: Halloween Party at Delta Chi Fraternity

In October 2008, Cassie attended a joint Halloween party hosted by Delta Chi and Phi Kappa Psi fraternities. Excitement filled the air as she and her friends, dressed in vibrant costumes, anticipated a night of fun and camaraderie.

Upon arrival, Cassie encountered a larger crowd than expected, leading to an initial setback when they found themselves not on the guest list. However, with the help of a fraternity member friend, they gained entry. The atmosphere was electric, with loud music and a carefree vibe.

Cassie Eaton [07:12]: "It was fun. We could hear the music. We could hear the party downstairs in the basement."

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The Assault: Cassie's Trauma Unfolds

As the night progressed, Cassie found herself alone with Gregory Sacco, a fraternity member, in his room. What began as a consensual interaction quickly turned into a nightmare. Gregory's advance towards sexual activity led to Cassie being forcibly raped, leaving her physically and emotionally devastated.

Cassie Eaton [17:39]: "He was holding me down with his forearm and had just pushed my underwear aside and was raping me."

The assault was not only a physical violation but also a deeply isolating experience. Cassie's attempts to escape were met with physical restraint, leaving her feeling helpless despite being in a crowded environment.

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Immediate Aftermath: Hospitalization and Police Involvement

After the assault, Cassie, accompanied by her friends Nick and Carla, sought medical attention. At the emergency room, she faced a two-hour wait before being seen by a doctor, further prolonging her trauma.

Cassie Eaton [21:59]: "The doctor was asking what had happened... I couldn't explain what was happening or what had happened to me."

The medical examination was invasive, collecting evidence through a rape kit, which Cassie found both necessary and retraumatizing. The separation from her friends by the police during the initial inquiry introduced feelings of abandonment and increased her sense of vulnerability.

Cassie Eaton [26:02]: "I felt scared and lonely and kind of angry at that point, for, like, why couldn't I wait with my friends?"

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Legal Proceedings: Trial and Conviction

Gregory Sacco was identified through DNA evidence, which showed a 1 in 10 billion chance of the DNA belonging to anyone other than Cassie. Despite this, Sacco's defense hinged on his intoxicated state, arguing he couldn't be held accountable due to being "blackout drunk."

During the trial, Cassie faced intense scrutiny and victim-blaming questions, such as why she didn't scream for help despite being in a crowded space. The fraternity environment and Sacco's supporters further intimidated her, making the legal process even more daunting.

Cassie Eaton [37:00]: "But he was, yes. I was just identified as a Portland State student."

The jury, requiring only a majority for conviction under Oregon law at the time, found Sacco guilty. He was sentenced to eight years and four months in prison, followed by eleven years of parole and mandatory registration as a sex offender.

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Pursuit of Justice: Civil Case and Appeals

Unwilling to let the trauma end with the criminal trial, Cassie pursued a civil lawsuit against the fraternity. Initially unsuccessful in 2010 and on appeal in 2012, she ultimately won in 2015. This landmark case was the first in Oregon to hold fraternities accountable for sexual assaults occurring on their premises, prompting policy changes within Greek life organizations regarding alcohol consumption and access to personal rooms.

Cassie Eaton [46:37]: "That was really helpful for me, I think."

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The Overturning of Conviction and Its Impact

In 2022, Gregory Sacco's conviction was invalidated due to a U.S. Supreme Court ruling requiring unanimous verdicts for serious crimes. As a result, Sacco was released without the need to register as a sex offender. This development was deeply distressing for Cassie, as it felt like a negation of the justice she had fought so hard to achieve.

Cassie Eaton [50:19]: "I have to be okay with that."

The invalidation not only erased Sacco's conviction but also removed the social and legal markers of his crime, leaving Cassie grappling with unresolved anger and a sense of incomplete justice.

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Healing and Moving Forward

Despite the setbacks, Cassie has worked diligently to heal from her trauma. She has become a mother, sought therapy, and actively participates in advocacy through the Rainn Speakers Bureau. Sharing her story has been both a therapeutic process and a means to educate others, particularly within fraternity and sorority communities, about the realities of sexual assault.

Cassie Eaton [53:00]: "Today I'm doing great. I'm finally at the point where it's a part of my story, but it doesn't feel like it's my identity anymore."

Cassie's journey underscores the enduring impact of sexual violence and the complexities of seeking justice within a flawed legal system.

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Reflections on the Episode

"The Knife: My Body Is The Crime Scene" offers a poignant exploration of one woman's struggle for justice and healing after a traumatic assault. Through Cassie's narrative, listeners gain insight into the multifaceted challenges victims face, from immediate physical and emotional trauma to prolonged legal battles and societal judgment. The episode highlights the importance of supportive friendships, systemic accountability, and the relentless resilience required to reclaim one's life after such an ordeal.

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Notable Quotes

• Cassie Eaton [03:56]: "Before we went off to college, I feel like we were, you know, kind of told that college could be scary and parties could be scary."
• Cassie Eaton [17:39]: "It just felt like it's terrible to think."
• Cassie Eaton [26:25]: "It was very difficult and not something that I ever thought a situation I never thought that I would be in."
• Cassie Eaton [37:16]: "It felt like I was more on trial, that I had to prove myself in some way."
• Cassie Eaton [46:40]: "That was really helpful for me, I think."
• Cassie Eaton [53:00]: "Today I'm doing great. I'm finally at the point where it's a part of my story, but it doesn't feel like it's my identity anymore."

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Additional Insights

The episode also sheds light on broader issues such as the prevalence of sexual violence on college campuses, the complexities of the legal system in handling such cases, and the societal tendency to blame victims. Cassie's story is further contextualized with statistics from the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN), highlighting that 26.4% of female and 6.8% of male undergraduate students experience rape or sexual assault.

Cassie Eaton [56:09]: "It's like, he raped me, and I, like, cannot get you out of my head."

The episode serves as a crucial reminder of the ongoing struggles survivors face and the imperative need for systemic changes to better support and protect victims.

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Conclusion

"My Body Is The Crime Scene" is a powerful testament to Cassie's journey through trauma, legal battles, and eventual healing. Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton skillfully navigate the sensitive subject matter, providing listeners with a comprehensive and empathetic portrayal of Cassie's experiences. The episode not only tells a compelling true crime story but also fosters a deeper understanding of the enduring impacts of sexual violence and the importance of resilience and support in the path to recovery.

Transcript

[Lola Blanc]

This is exactly right.

[Danielle Robaix]

Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But it happens all the time to.

[Paisha Eaton]

People just like you and people just like us.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm Lola Blanc.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[Paisha Eaton]

We're the hosts of Trust Me, a.

[Lola Blanc]

Podcast about cults, manipulation and the psychology of belief.

[Paisha Eaton]

Each week we talk to fellow survivors.

[Lola Blanc]

Former believers and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out.

[Paisha Eaton]

Trust Me.

[Lola Blanc]

New episodes every Wednesday on Exactly right.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Robaix]

Just like Great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

[Lola Blanc]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit Apple Co Rees Apple Books to find out more.

[Lola Blanc]

We're siblings like you fight, you disagree. It's really hard to be in a judge.

[Paisha Eaton]

You judge each other. You. You lead differently and we've gotten to that edge.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Hey, I'm Simone Boyce, host of the Bright side and this week I'm joined by Hollywood power sisters Aaron and Sarah Foster. They're getting real about boundaries, rejection, plus what's next for their hit Netflix series. Nobody wants this. Listen to the Bright side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lola Blanc]

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Paisha Eaton]

Things started to hit me. More of this really just happened. And this is.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Welcome to the Knife. I'm Hannah Smith.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm Paisha Eaton. This week we're speaking with a woman named Cassie. In 2008, Cassie attended a Halloween party at a fraternity at Oregon State University. The party started out just like you'd picture it. Fun costumes, loud music. It was a packed house.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But the night ended with Cassie walking into an emergency room with her blood stained costume in a bag. After being seen by a doctor, she would meet with two detectives who wanted to know exactly what happened at that party.

[Lola Blanc]

Let's get into the interview.

[Paisha Eaton]

So I'm from Portland, Oregon, and I grew up in just the suburbs. Just had a pretty typical childhood. I went to a private high school. I loved high school. I had a great time. But I was also very excited for college. I'd never really been away from home or my parents, so I ended up going to Oregon State University in Oregon. It's like growing up, you're either you're a duck or a beaver, and Oregon State is the Beavers. And my family was always Beavers. And so it kind of was always, that's where I'm going to go. Yeah, I was excited for like that whole college experience.

[Lola Blanc]

What were you looking forward to about, you know, going off to college and what did you expect it to be like?

[Paisha Eaton]

I was looking forward to just, I guess freedom is the best way to kind of that independence and freedom of making my own choices. And it felt like it was a way for me to kind of have like a new start. I don't know if it was just like a Catholic high school thing, but before we went off to college, I feel like we were, you know, kind of told that college could be scary and parties could be scary. And I remember feeling nervous about stuff like that. But when I made friends with these guys that joined fraternities, it felt like, well, these parties aren't scary. Like, I just remember feeling it was a really, like carefree time. I never worried about anything. My girlfriends would come and it was just kind of like we were all just like a big group of friends. I never felt scared.

[Lola Blanc]

After spending her freshman year at Oregon State, Cassie was feeling homesick. So in the fall of 2007, she transferred to Portland State. And it was the best of both worlds. During the week, she could be closer to her family, but on the weekend, she could hop on i5 and see all of her friends at OSU. A few of those friends were involved in Greek life. And OSU's Greek Row doesn't look much different than it does in the movies. Big houses, tree lined streets buzzing with students who are excited to belong to a social network meant to last far beyond their college years. It was exciting and it was a good time in Cassie's life. But in the fall of 2008, everything changed.

[Paisha Eaton]

The fraternity that I spent a lot of time at was Delta Chi. And one of my really good friends at the time was a part of that fraternity. And they were going to be hosting a joint party with Phi Kappa Psi. And I had never actually been to that fraternity, but I was at Delta Chi all the time, and it sounded really fun. There were only so many people that were gonna be invited, and so it was exciting. So me and my girlfriend drove down from Portland, and I remember being so excited, trying to find, you know, the perfect costume, and I ended up choosing. I was Tinkerbell that night, and I was excited to be at a new fraternity, meet new people, and there was four of us that were gonna meet up and go to the party, and I was just really excited. And I just remember all that excited energy of listening to music and getting ready before the party and doing makeup and just being really happy. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And it's such a specific experience to get dressed up for Halloween in college in a town where it's really cold at that time of year.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yes, totally. It was definitely like, a time and a place where we were just, you know, my girlfriend and I had our little playlist that we had made to do our makeup and hair, and definitely it was cold.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. It's a moment, right? It's like you're an adult, but you're also dressed up like Tinkerbell and you're going out with your friends.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Tell us about arriving to the party. What did it look and feel like? What were your first impressions of the people and the vibe there?

[Paisha Eaton]

When we showed up, it was, I think, bigger than I thought it was going to be. There were a lot of people lined up, like, waiting to get inside. There's, like, a whole guest list situation. And I remember being cold, waiting in line, and then when we finally got up there, we weren't on the guest list, so it was like, that's such a bummer. Another typical college thing where you're not on the list, can't get into the party. And I remember kind of arguing with the guy at the door and trying to get ahold of my friend that was the fraternity member inside. And I just remember it being loud, but also just. It felt like fun. I was still excited. Now, of course, looking back on it, I'm always like, well, what if we just turned away?

[Lola Blanc]

It's been almost two decades since Halloween 2008, but sometimes this question still nags at Cassie. What if she had just turned away? How might her life be different? What version of herself would she be? That's because this night that started out so full of joy and anticipation unfolded in a way that would play out in the media and in a courtroom, altering the course of Cassie's life. But Cassie did get into the party, and that night, she walked in like any other college student excited to have Fun on Halloween.

[Paisha Eaton]

But I got ahold of my friend, and he came up to the front door and let us all in. I hadn't seen him in a while, and I remember, like, giving him a big hug and saying I was excited to be there. And it was just. It was fun. Like, we could hear the music. We could hear the party downstairs in the basement. And so we were all just excited to go down there and dance and hang out. So there's, like, the makeshift college bar. There's super loud music. It was 2008. Britney Spears had just kind of come back, and they were playing Womanizer, which was one of me and my girlfriend's favorite songs. And I remember hearing that as we came downstairs, and we were just so happy. And it was just busy and dark, but, like, the whole glow, you know, black light thing, it was just. It was fun. And there was a lot of people, which most of the fraternity parties I had been to hadn't been quite that big. But this was a joint party between two houses, so it kind of made sense. But we were just excited to dance. And I remember the four of us kind of, you know, got into the crowd and just kind of started dancing and having a good time, and I was. I was excited. I remember just feeling really happy that I'd always loved Halloween and felt like it was going to be a really good night.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, those four people. Can you tell us who those four people are?

[Paisha Eaton]

Yeah. So I was with my best friend Nick, who was the one that was at Oregon State, than we were staying at his house, and we had been best friends since high school. And then my other best friend, Carla, who I had known also since high school. We were on the same cheerleading team. And then we were with one of Nick's roommates. Like I said, Carla and I would go down there almost every weekend and stay at Nick's house with him and his roommate. And so we were all very close. I was also fairly newly single, so it was kind of like, oh, I'm excited to see, you know, maybe I can meet someone. I think we had maybe been kind of dancing, hanging out for maybe an hour. It was like we were dancing, and I kind of, like, turned around, and actually, physically, I ran into who I now know was Greg, and he was dressed as a Heineken bottle. And I remember kind of laughing about that. And then we kind of ended up, like, talking, or as much as you can talk on the crowded dance floor. And so then we started dancing, and everything was fine. I was having a good time. We ended up we were kissing on the dance floor and then all of a sudden I noticed I had lost track of Nick and Carla, but I didn't think too much of it at the time. And then after more time went on maybe half an hour, 45 minutes, and I still couldn't find them. And I was thinking, okay, we should find them and maybe we can figure out we hadn't gotten anything to drink at that time. So I'm like, oh, maybe they went to go get a drink and I want to go do that with them.

[Danielle Robaix]

Just like great shoes, Great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

[Lola Blanc]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book club on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit Apple Co ReeseAppleBooks to find out more.

[Paisha Eaton]

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Paisha Eaton]

New York State number, and we own you. Listen to Shock incarceration on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Danielle Robaix]

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[Paisha Eaton]

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[Danielle Robaix]

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[Paisha Eaton]

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[Lola Blanc]

Cassie had just turned 21, and earlier that night, while she and her friend were getting ready for this party, she had a total of two drinks. But since arriving to the party, she'd had none. It's not worth mentioning or it wouldn't be except that every move Cassie made that night would later be scrutinized over and over and over again.

[Paisha Eaton]

So I told Greg. I was like, I want to go find my friends. You know, we can get something to drink. And I remember he said, yeah, I'll go with you. Let's go find your friends. And so we go upstairs and to the main level, like, where the front door was, where there was everybody getting into the party. We didn't see them up there. And so we went up to the next level, where the private rooms were for the fraternity members. And somehow we ended up. We were in his room. I don't remember if it was like, oh, hey, we can just grab, like, a drink in here, or whatever. I don't know if you've been in a fraternity room, but they don't actually. Or at least at Oregon State, the members didn't actually sleep in their rooms. They had a sleeping porch area where there were a bunch of bunk beds and stuff. So the rooms were pretty small, and a lot of them had just futons or chairs or whatever in them. I was like, I thought he was cute. He was really tall. I always liked tall guys. And so I was kind of excited. I was like, okay, I'm newly single. This guy seems nice. And we're sitting on the futon, and we kind of started kissing and making out, which is all consensual. Everything's great at that time. And then all of a sudden, he asks me if I want to have sex. And I kind of. I remember kind of laughing like, no, I just met you, dude. Like, that's not really, like, can't. You know, this is fine right now. And that's when it kind of shifted all of a sudden. Then he seemed to, like, shut down, and it was like the vibe was just different. And then I tried to get up to leave, and he grabbed my wrist and, like, pulled me back down onto the futon. And I remember his room was right off of the basketball court, so I could hear people laughing and playing basketball outside. And I remember thinking, oh, my gosh. Like, why can't I say anything? Like, I felt frozen. Even though he was by that point, he was holding me down with his forearm and had just pushed my underwear aside and was raping me. And I just remember hearing that laughter and thinking, they're right out there. I can hear them. Like, why can't I scream? Or. And I can also hear people on the other side of the door in the hallway, and just. It felt. It sounds like cliche, but it totally felt like an out of body experience where I was watching this happen to me. And I remember just a lot of pain. It was really painful and just I felt sad. I just remember crying and just wondering when it would be over, like when, when he would stop and why, why he was doing this. Because it seemed like he seemed like a good guy when I met him, as much as you can judge someone for a couple hours. But I didn't get that kind of scary, creepy vibe from him at all. And so I just. It shut down. It felt like it's terrible to think.

[Lola Blanc]

About finding yourself in that situation. And you know, even though you had met him only a couple of hours before, that is pretty normal. You go to a party and you meet people and you're all hanging out and there were moments that were consensual. It makes sense to me that you at some point in the night had felt comfortable and then that that shifted. And so you're in, you know, his room. How does it end? And how do you get yourself away from him?

[Paisha Eaton]

The was finished. And I remember just kind of sitting up and just being in shock. And I remember I just started to leave and I went towards the door. And it. I don't know if it was part of the shock that I was in at the time, but I felt like I couldn't get the door open. It felt locked. So I later found out that there wasn't a lock on that door. But I think that just shows like how like I could not open the door. I just. I felt like nothing. My hands weren't working, like I couldn't connect to open the door. And I remember someone opened the door from the outside of the room. And I remember just coming out into this group and just feeling such a. My brain felt hazy is the best description. I felt like a zombie. I was now on the third floor and I had to go downstairs. I remember I couldn't remember or figure out which way the stairs were. And I just remember kind of going in circles and I ended up running into my friend, the fraternity member that had invited me to the party. And I remember telling him, I need to find Nick and Carla. And then he was actually the first one that told me. He said, why is there blood all over your costume? I hadn't even noticed. And I looked down and there was just blood all over the skirt part of the Tinkerbell costume. And then I told him, I said, I think I was raped. And so then he just like frantically like, tried to find Nick and Carla and we ended up finding them. And I remember Nick making a really big deal like, we need to leave. She needs to get to the hospital. And I remember fraternity members trying to get us to not go to the hospital.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, my God.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yeah, I remember parts of it and then from speaking with Nick. Nick was not a very confrontational guy. And I remember him getting very angry and yelling that we need. It was like they were almost physically trying to stop us from leaving and saying, you know, well, we can. Who was it? We can figure out. Let's go find him. We'll talk about this. And I don't really remember what I was thinking at that point. I kind of let Nick and Carla be in charge, like, okay, I need to go to the hospital. I'm gonna do whatever they say. And then I remember just. We had walked to the party. I was sitting outside, and Nick and Carla were frantically trying to call friends with cars. And so we finally found a friend that was already like a designated DD for her group of friends that she was going out with. We went home. They let me change. They put my costume and everything into a bag to bring to the hospital. They wouldn't let me shower.

[Lola Blanc]

With her friends, Nick and Carla by her side and her blood stained Tinkerbell costume in a bag, Cassie walked into the emergency room. She waited for the doctor for two hours before they could see her. It was excruciating. All she wanted to do was go home. She wanted to shower. And maybe if not for the support of Nick and Carla, she would have. But what Cassie didn't know is that this was only the beginning of what would be a long and painful legal process.

[Paisha Eaton]

The doctor was asking what had happened, and I had said, you know, I was raped. I remember she asked me, you know, was it oral, anal, vaginal? And I just. I couldn't even, you know, I remember saying, I don't know. I just said, I don't know to so many things which would later come back at trial. But now, looking back on it, I was in still just so much shock. I couldn't even. I think my brain was not even processing what had happened. I knew I was raped. I knew something was wrong, but I. Those detailed questions, I couldn't. I couldn't even explain what was happening or what had happened to me. And then she asked if I wanted to talk to the police. And I, you know, I didn't even think about it. I just. I said yes because I knew something bad had happened to me and I wanted to talk to them. And so she went to start that process. And so then she said, I'm guessing that would you also like a rape kit done? And I said, yes. And I remember being very scared. I hadn't even had, like, my first pap smear yet. And so I remember Carla stayed with me and was just holding my hand. And I just remember crying, and it was so painful because obviously a rape exam is. It's a crazy feeling because you're. They're collecting evidence, but essentially your body is the crime scene. So it's, you know, all. Lots of. Lots of poking and prodding and scraping and just. And after you had just. I had just been raped, it felt so violating again, even though I knew I wanted to do it to get the evidence, it was also very triggering. It felt like the exam took hours. It didn't. I mean, it was just a few minutes. And I also remember they had my costume, but then they even had to take my underwear. And so having to go into the bathroom and change and get some of their underwear that they had at the hospital. That's when I remember there was still so much bleeding happening. And that was, I think, the born war. I saw that. It was like things started to hit me. More of this really just happened. And this is. This is bad. Just remember feeling scared. And then even worse at that point, then the police separated all three of us. And so I remember waiting in a part of the hospital. It was just like an empty waiting room for some part of the hospital. It was dark. It was in a super uncomfortable chair. I had to wait there alone. I didn't know where Nick and Carla were waiting. Had to wait there for another hour or so, which I understand now. But they had to wait for a female officer to also be available to accompany the male officer to interview me. So that was what ended up taking a long time. But I just remember feeling scared and lonely and kind of angry at that point too, for, like, why couldn't I wait with my friends? It just felt very overwhelming and isolating. And again, like, everything was taking so long and I just wanted to go home. It was about like 2am and still just waiting for the police to show up to talk to me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, of course. Like, I would be angry too. Like, you were victimized and had to go through this terrible thing, and now you're the one having to wait around and, like, have your body invaded. I also want to give props to you and your incredible friends for, like, insisting that you do this and taking care of you, you know, but it sounds like a really difficult experience.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yeah, it was very. It was very difficult and not something that I ever thought a situation I never thought that I would be in.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, of course.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. I mean, also at that point, you're very sleep deprived, you're very tired. That makes everything more difficult. So the female officer, when she arrives, what happens at that point?

[Paisha Eaton]

So she arrives and her and the male officer interview me together. The female officer was there just to be there. The man was interviewing me and immediately he made me feel comfortable. He just asked me what happened and I started to tell him my story. I wasn't sure if I even remembered the guy's name. I think I said it was Craig or Greg. I got through the story and he said, I believe this happened to you. I just felt relief immediately. I don't think I was consciously thinking that I wouldn't be believed, but just having that reassurance of I had just said the most horrible thing that had happened to me. And for him to say, I believe this happened to you, I felt like maybe it will be okay. And then I remember just once Nick and Carla were done with their interviews. We drove back to Nick's house.

[Danielle Robaix]

Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

[Lola Blanc]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

I'm Danielle Roubaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit Apple Co ReeseAppleBooks to find out more.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[Paisha Eaton]

On the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell.

[Lola Blanc]

And the DNA holds the truth.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He never thought he was going to get caught.

[Danielle Robaix]

And I just looked at my computer screen.

[Paisha Eaton]

I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases.

[Danielle Robaix]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the.

[Paisha Eaton]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Liz went from being interested in True crime to living true crime.

[Paisha Eaton]

My husband said, you, dad's been killed. This is Hands Tied, a true crime podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar. I was just completely in shock. Liz's father murdered and her mother found locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. It didn't feel real at all. More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers. We're still fighting.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio.

[Paisha Eaton]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts.

[Lola Blanc]

The drive from the hospital back to Nick's house that night was mostly silent. At one point, Cassie tried to call her mother and tell her what happened, but she couldn't get the words out. She threw up. Nick took over the call. The detectives at the hospital had asked Cassie to stay in town for another 24 hours because they'd have more questions for her. So they went back to Nick's house and tried to get some rest.

[Paisha Eaton]

And so I remember actually getting a little bit of sleep. And then I remember being woken up by a detective at Nick's house.

[Lola Blanc]

So he was physically in the house.

[Paisha Eaton]

Waking you up, the detective? Yeah, he was knocking on the door. I guess they had said they had tried to call all of us, but we were all so tired. None of us spoke up to the phone call. And so, yeah, so we woke up to it was Nick's roommate, actually opened the dorm for the officer and said, detectives are here to speak with you. And so I remember kind of still being in pajamas, and they had to drive me by the fraternity to physically point out which one it had happened at. So I remember being even scared to do that. I didn't even want to drive by in a police car that I knew I was totally safe. They showed me six photos of men and I had to pick out. Greg was in one of them, and I ended up picking him out of the lineup. But I remember feeling so nervous, like, oh, my gosh, what if I mess this up? And then once I picked out, I said, I think it's this guy. Then they said, 0 to 100. What percentage are you sure that it's this guy? And then I remember that stressed me out even more. I'm like, do I say 100%? But then what if it's wrong? Then I should have said a lower percent. I just remember already questioning myself how I was answering things. Pretty sure I landed on. I just picked like 70% or something because I felt like I couldn't say 100%. It ended up being him, that 30%.

[Lola Blanc]

That you decided to sort of buffer in, you know. You had spent a couple of hours with him. What was that?

[Paisha Eaton]

Honestly, I think it was. I was scared to be wrong. Now looking back on it, I'm like, that was 100% him. And I pretty sure I knew that, but I didn't want to say 100% because what if I was wrong and messed it up? I felt it was such a traumatic experience for me. I felt like I could pick him out of any group of people. It was just burned into my memory. But yeah, that kind of 30% was just, I don't want to be wrong, I don't want to mess it up. So I'm going to go with a number that's more than 50, but I don't want to go all into it because what if I am wrong?

[Megan Elizabeth]

So it's already almost like a test anxiety.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yes, exactly.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Super high stakes test someone puts in front of you.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And it's like if you fill in the wrong bubble, you might never whatever. You might never get justice or something. So it sounds like it was just like that anxiety of like this high pressure question, like, how sure are you?

[Paisha Eaton]

Totally. Because I thought, I didn't even think there was going to be like, how sure are you? I was just, okay, I'm going to pick this guy. And so then to kind of, well, how sure are you? Then I even started thinking like, okay, are you asking that? Because did I pick the wrong guy?

[Lola Blanc]

Cassie did not pick the wrong guy. DNA found in the underwear Sako was wearing that night was later tested. And those test Results gave a 1 in 10 billion chance that the DNA belonged to anyone but Cassie. That is considered a very strong positive DNA match. Cassie's medical examination also showed that she had vaginal tearing, which is where Cassie believes the blood came from. She was overwhelmed. But for now, the police were done asking Cassie questions. She could finally go back home to Portland. And when she got there, she went straight to her parents house where she stayed for almost a month.

[Paisha Eaton]

I wanted to be with my parents. I was in pajamas all day, like just wanting to feel that, like comfort blankets, like all the time. It felt like I was, yeah, like reverting to like a child. And I remember also at that point being able to take a shower. And I just still remember I could not get the water hot enough. And after a very long shower that I wanted to take a bath. It was just such a feeling of. I was just violated. And I remember not really sleeping much that first night. And then the next day I got a phone Call that they had found that it was Gregory Sacco, and he had been arrested and he was in jail in Corrales. And then a couple days later, he got the call that he had posted bail. His parents had come and posted bail. The district attorney called me. I was going to be going in for a grand jury hearing to see if this case, if it was even going to go to trial, if there was enough evidence to take it to trial. Also, at this point, I feel like I first kind of got an insight of what it was going to be like to be a victim in this legal process. And there was, I believe it was eight or 10 people, and they could ask me questions when I was done telling my story. And this was also the first time where one of the men asked me, why didn't you scream? Why don't you say anything? If there were people around, if you could hear people outside, why didn't you yell for help? That was the first time I got kind of hit with that victim blaming. And I remember at that time, I didn't really know how to answer that. I was just like, I. I was in shock. I couldn't. And then I also remember feeling like, okay, maybe I did the wrong thing, I guess. And so that was kind of my first experience with the victim blaming and where I started to maybe think, okay, maybe this trial, this legal process is going to be different and harder than I thought. It felt like I was more on trial, that I had to prove myself in some way. Right.

[Lola Blanc]

Because, you know, it's like, you are not personally bringing these charges. The state is bringing these charges. The state has determined they think that something happened here and that they can win this case.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So the grand jury does return an indictment.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yes. And at this point, Greg is just. He's out. He had gone back to California, and the story, it was on, like, the local news. And so that was also a weird feeling. I remember watching the TV and it came on and it was just, you know, I was just like, turn it off. Turn. You know, I can't see his mugshot or.

[Lola Blanc]

Cause you were not identified. But he was.

[Paisha Eaton]

He was, yes. I was just identified as a Portland State student. The stories would be online, and people were able to comment on the stories. And that. That was also a big thing for me, that I could not stop myself from looking up the news stories and then reading the. All the hundreds of comments that people were just posting. Almost all of them were bashing me, even though these people didn't know who I was. But it was Always, you know, why was she at a fraternity party? What did she think was going to happen there? I heard that she was wearing. Did you see her costume or just, you know, all the. These horrible things. And I just remember I would just be sitting at my computer. Computer just crying and trying to explain to my mom and my sister and my friends, like, that I couldn't just stop looking it up. I don't know. It was a very strange feeling. It's like I couldn't look away from it. I was checking daily, like, are there any new comments? And it made me mad and it made me sad, and it just kind of just made me spiral. And then finally, the district attorney's office just called me and said, okay, trial's set for May. So this is in 2009. Now, they had told me that that was actually a pretty quick turnaround time from the assault happening on Halloween in 2008. And then for trial to be in May 2009.

[Lola Blanc]

Was Gregory offered a plea deal?

[Paisha Eaton]

He was.

[Lola Blanc]

Did he accept the plea deal?

[Paisha Eaton]

He did not. His whole defense became. He was too drunk. He was blackout drunk, so he can't be held accountable for what he did during that time.

[Lola Blanc]

At the trial, Gregory Sacco's defense leaned heavily into the argument that he simply didn't remember what happened that night because he'd had too much to drink, but that if something sexual did happen, then it must have been consensual. At the Halloween party, fraternity members had been tallying drinks on their arms. Gregory Sacco's arm showed 28 tally marks, one for every drink he consumed. But at the same time, Cassie's two drinks over the course of the entire evening were heavily scrutinized during the trial.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yeah, I remember thinking that, of, like, you're going to give me this much of a hard time. And I had two drinks, and he had what was marked as 28. Like, it's. I just. Yeah, remember being. And also just thinking, okay, I'm a college student. Like, you know, me and my friends have all been very drunk a handful of times. You don't rape people. That's not. That's not something that you do.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Paisha Eaton]

Even if you are very drunk. That's not a defense. That was ridiculous. And I also remember feeling even a little bit angry. Like, I think he had made a statement like, I don't even remember meeting her. That made me feel angry. It's like, you. You raped me, and I, like, cannot get you out of my head. But yet you don't remember meeting me. That really Pissed me off.

[Lola Blanc]

The trial took place seven months after the alleged rape. For Cassie, it was not only the terror that came with retelling her story in front of an audience, but this strange and performative aspect of presenting herself to a jury. Cover your tattoos, don't wear heels. Wear makeup, but not too much makeup. Be authentic, but not too emotional. And as if all of this wasn't difficult enough, Gregory Sacco had a lot of supporters, people who simply couldn't imagine he would do this.

[Paisha Eaton]

Just seeing the whole fraternity there, his family. I remember feeling very intimidated by, especially his mom. Again, like, silly things you remember. It's, you know, there's one woman's bathroom in this courthouse. And I can remember multiple times, like, washing my hands next to his mom and just feeling terrified. Like, she looked at me like I was ruining everything. That's what I remember a lot about trials, feeling intimidated and scared. There was a little part of me, I knew that I wanted to keep doing this because I had also had. Once I kind of started talking to more people, a lot of acquaintances or friends of friends, women would come up and share their stories. And I started to feel like I was a part of this sad club that nobody wanted to be in. But I felt like I was getting more and more support and hearing from all these people. I had no idea. Like, I had been, you know, acquaintances from high school that I thought I knew fairly well. And then they would come up to me and say that this happened to me at a fraternity party as well, or my sister had this happen. I kind of held onto those stories to kind of give me strength at trial. Like, I'm not alone in this. The district attorney who ended up getting very close to. He's a great man. He had told me, he said, you know, sadly, it's not about the truth. It's about what you can prove in court. And that's always stuck with me. The trial was four days. And then on Friday, the fifth day, the jury went out to deliberate, which took a few hours, and then they came back with their verdict, and he was found guilty.

[Lola Blanc]

On Tuesday, May 19, 2009, Gregory Sacco was sentenced to eight years and four months for the crime of first degree rape. After his sentence was completed, he would then have 11 years of parole and. And have to register as a sex offender.

[Paisha Eaton]

He was taken into custody right then, his handcuff taken away. And then a week later, I went back and spoke at his sentencing. And that was a really empowering time for me. At as much time as I wanted to Say whatever I wanted, and that felt really good. Yeah. And then I'm left to kind of just go on with my life.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So he is convicted and taken into custody. And I guess in, you know, the movie version, that would sort of be the end credits, and there would be this, like, sense of victory. But, you know, we know that that's not really how it works legally and maybe mainly emotionally. Once you've been through something like this, what did life look like for you?

[Paisha Eaton]

After the trial, a family friend had spoiled, spoken to me about that I potentially had a lawsuit case that they had a lawyer that they wanted me to speak with, and I ended up speaking with him, and he was a personal injury lawyer, and he thought that this was a really interesting case. He also had daughters, and he said, I'm passionate about this. I feel like around that time, it was kind of coming out more about kind of some of these dangers that these fraternity environments. And it seemed like all these bad things that kept happening at fraternities that they weren't held really accountable in any way. And like, the lawyer had explained to me, you know, unfortunately, the way to kind of get things to change is to have them have to pay money. Like, that's what matters to these people.

[Lola Blanc]

Pursuing a civil case against the fraternity meant that Cassie would have to retell her story of the worst night of her life all over again after having just recently gone through the trial. The civil suit was filed in 2010, but was unsuccessful. Cassie lost. In 2012, she appealed, and in 2015, she won.

[Paisha Eaton]

In 2015, they ruled in my favor, which in Oregon, that was the first time the appeals court addressed if fraternities could be held accountable for sexual assaults and rape that happened on their premises. And so it kind of set a precedent and made fraternities kind of think more about their policies that they could have in place kind of regarding members drinking or cutting off access to personal rooms.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. So there was some, you know, at least real policy change there as a result of this. Yeah, that feels important.

[Paisha Eaton]

Yes, definitely. That was really helpful for me, I think.

[Lola Blanc]

Healing Gregory Sako served the entirety of his sentence, and in 2017, he was released. He moved back to California, but was on parole and had to register as a sex offender. Cassie had been working hard to move on with her life. She'd gotten married. She'd become a mother. Finally, it started to feel like the darkest and most difficult chapter of her life was ending. In 2022, Cassie gave birth to twins. And just five days after giving birth, she was laying on her Sofa breastfeeding. When the phone rang, it was a crime victim advocate calling to let her know that Gregory Sacco was no longer on parole, he was no longer a registered sex offender and he was no longer guilty of first degree rape. His 2009 conviction had been invalidated. Part of the reason this crime victim called was to see if Cassie felt like going through another trial in if the state were to once again pursue a first degree rape charge for Gregory Sacco.

[Paisha Eaton]

If I didn't go forward, he was just free from everything. Everything was wiped off his record, didn't have to register as a sex offender. And so I was also so in shock then took some days to think about it and I decided I did want to try to just go forward and do trial again. So a couple months later we were at a first kind of pre trial hearing and Greg was out. So he's appearing over zoom. And so it was the first time even just seeing him like on a screen. We were both present for this hearing and the judge already was coming at me with, he literally said, why would you want to go through with this again? You know, Greg has already served his time, his life has already been ruined enough. Why do we need to do this again? I was trying to be so composed and I just remember at that time just breaking down crying and the DA stepped in for me and just said, Cassie's life has been greatly changed as well. And it again brought me back to that. It was just so much victim blaming. So still, why would I want to do this to him again? He's already served his time. Can't I just let this go? And that made me mad. But after a few weeks of kind of just, I kind of feel like I had kind of like a mini breakdown, kind of started spiraling and decided I didn't want to go through with trial again. I made the decision that what was best for me, I was a mom of three under two at that time. I just couldn't do this again even if it meant it made me so angry that he was just going to have a clean record and not have to register. But it was what was best for me at the time.

[Lola Blanc]

The jury that had delivered Sacco's guilty verdict back in 2009 was not unanimous. But at the time, Oregon law didn't require a unanimous verdict. It required a majority of 10 out of the 12 jurors, except in the case of first degree murder. But then in 2020, the U.S. supreme Court ruled that the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. constitution required a unanimous verdict. For serious criminal offenders. So in 2022, the Oregon Supreme Court ruled that this decision would apply retroactively, which meant it applied to Gregory Sacco. His conviction was no longer valid. It was almost like it never happened. He was no longer on parole. He was no longer a registered sex offender.

[Paisha Eaton]

And so I agreed to let him just plead. He wouldn't even plead not guilty because that is, I guess, admitting something. He pled no contest to just, like, a minor assault charge. So there's nothing sexual. So he's off the registry. I'm okay with it now. I mean, it's not ideal. That was. I mean, ultimately, I fought trial to get him convicted. To have to have that consequence, which to me seems very minor to what he put me through. Like, you should have to pay for what you did by registering. Even if I know that he's off the registry and doesn't have it on his record, I know what happened. Everybody that is important to me knows what happened. And I've come to realize, like, that's what matters, and I have to be okay with that. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm asking this question as someone who wants to understand as well as I think maybe listeners will have this question, But I'm not indicating that you shouldn't feel like you want him on this, the sex offender list, because I don't. I think you should feel how you want to feel. I'm curious to know if he had to still register as a sex offender, why do you think that's important?

[Paisha Eaton]

I think that's a very valid question. And I had to think about that a lot, too, kind of when I was going through this. And I think for me, what I felt was important about it was he was out of prison, and so that part was done. But that registering as a sex offender felt like something else he would have to do as a consequence of what he did for me. And it felt important as something that would still kind of change his life, affect his life in some way, Because I felt like I was so greatly affected in so many ways. I would have to get, you know, anxiety meds, to even have a pap smear. My whole birthing experience was. That was all very triggering, and I had to get help, support around that just to give birth. It felt like my life was so affected still, and still is that him registering as a sex offender felt like a little bit that it would still affect his life in some way.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, that makes total sense.

[Lola Blanc]

How are you today?

[Paisha Eaton]

Today I'm doing great. I'm finally at the point where it's a part of my story, but it doesn't feel like it's my identity anymore. And I think there's been so much that's gone into that because it's been so long. Lots of therapy and work on myself. And also I feel like telling my story has been big part of the healing journey for me. I'm part of the Rainn Speakers Bureau where I've shared my story. I've spoken at fraternities and sororities, specifically in some college criminology classes. But that's also been a way that I feel like it's. It's helped make me the person that I am today, where I'm on the other side of this and able to share my story as someone who feels strong where I am now.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I think that's amazing. It's probably so powerful for those people at those sororities and fraternities to hear a story like yours. And, you know, nobody thinks it's going to be them.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I'm so appreciative of you reaching out and telling us your story. I think it's, like, really powerful. And you tell it so well. So thank you so much. I'm so glad that Cassie spoke with us and was willing to tell us her story. I really found it to be very powerful.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Cassie reached out to us in an email. She had listened to the show, and it feels really great that we were a safe space for her to share this.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, it does.

[Lola Blanc]

One thing that really stood out in the interview is Cassie's experience getting a rape kit. Reporting to law enforcement was so traumatizing. And she mentioned several times that without having the support of two really close friends stayed by her side through the entire process, she probably wouldn't have been able to do it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cheers to her friends. Seriously, what great friends. I loved that part of the story where they were by her side and helped her when she was, like, in shock to know what to do for her best interest. It was really, really great. And her walking us through everything that happened at the hospital was really powerful as well. We hear so often from people like that experience can be traumatizing. And I believe them. But it's a little vague. And Cassie really walked us through exactly why and how that is.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And it's easy to understand. And, you know, one organization that Cassie mentioned to me on one of our preliminary calls is the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network. And I looked up some statistics on their website that really speak to Cassie's story. And what turns out to be, you Know, sometimes a common story on college campuses, and that is sexual violence. Among undergraduate students, 26.4% of females and 6.8% of males experience rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence, or incapacitation.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And only 20% of female student victims ages 18 to 24 report to law enforcement hearing Cassie's story. You know, these statistics aren't surprising, but, like, it's really sad. And while it's not difficult to understand, I think it's important to remember that there are so many more stories out there that don't get reported.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And, you know, the trauma didn't end after the trial, as we heard from Cassie. So in 2009, the trial, Gregory Sacco is convicted of rape, and he's sentenced to prison. And he does go to prison. And so at that point, Cassie has this small sense of, like, justice in her life. And then in 2010, Gregory Sacco's parents, they end up publishing a guest opinion in a smaller news publication called the Almanac, and it's titled Guest Opinion How Alcohol Ruined a Student's Dreams. And the letter is really troubling, in my opinion. I mean, it's essentially this warning shot for college students. Like, heavy drinking could leave you very vulnerable to false accusations. I mean, that is how I interpret what they're saying. And the letter also references an accuser of their son, Gregory Sacco, who they name in the letter, but never references this person as a victim. And, you know, interesting.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Even though he's in prison at this point, he's been convicted.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. At this point of the letter being published, he's convicted and he's in prison. And one quote from this opinion piece is, the problem with this case was that at the time the alleged incident occurred, Gregory and his accuser were very drunk, or, quote, hammered, as you might say. Okay, so this is the quote from the piece.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And a lot of inaccuracies.

[Lola Blanc]

A lot of inaccuracies. We know that Cassie was not drunk at this party. And it is my interpretation that it's Cassie they're talking about.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, his accuser.

[Lola Blanc]

His accuser. And Cassie has always maintained that she had only two drinks the entire evening. In fact, there was a moment at the hospital where law enforcement, you know, determined she was sober to a point where they didn't even need to take a toxicology test because there was no reason to. They didn't believe it. That she was intoxicated.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And her friends also corroborated that version of the night. So it's troubling to call her an accuser and to say that she was hammered. She wasn't.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Whereas it seems pretty clear that Gregory Sacco was based on witness accounts as well as the fact that they had been tallying the number of drinks in their arms and he had 28 tally marks. But, yeah, regardless, you know, I think that there's been a lot of sort of written about the dangers of alcohol. And, hey, that's fair, right? Like, yes, alcohol can be very dangerous, but it's oftentimes been written about in conjunction with the conversation around sexual assault and rape on college campuses and sort of been pointed to like, well, that's the problem. Well, alcohol is the problem. And I'm not saying it's not a problem, but it's not the full answer.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. It's not an exception.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's not.

[Lola Blanc]

It might impair judgment and it might lead to an increased risk of sexual violence, but it certainly doesn't negate anything.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Because there's plenty of people who get quote, unquote hammered, as they say in their letter, that don't act violent or commit crimes against other people. And so obviously, there's another issue deeper in there that I think is important to look at.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So in 2022, Sako's conviction for first degree rape was invalidated. And we talked about that in the episode. It was because whenever his conviction happened, it was Oregon law that there had to be at least 10 out of 12 jurors for a conviction. And they, for whatever reason, had that amount, you know, and he was convicted. And then in 2022, based on a 2020 Supreme Court ruling, Oregon decided this would be retroactive in all violent, which automatically meant that his conviction was invalidated. It wasn't, like, under review. It just, boom, it was over. It was over. He no longer had a record. He no longer had to register as a sex offender. He had already served his time. So the big piece of this, though, that we talked with Cassie about is this idea of him not having to register as a sex offender. And it's sort of a hot topic. Right. There's an ongoing debate about the usefulness of sex offender registry. You know, there's some people that say it does more harm than good because it can create a false sense of security. It can also disproportionately impact certain demographics and make it more difficult for someone who's been convicted of various sexual offenses to rehabilitate or reintegrate into society. You know, if there's one person who has to register as a sex offender in, like, a multi Family home. This affects everyone in that house. There's also a lot of good arguments in favor of the sex offender registry that people, I think rightly so, want to know if there's someone who has been convicted of a sexual offense who's in their neighborhood. So I wanted to talk to Cassie about this because it really seemed to impact her a lot. This idea that Saka would no longer have to register as a sex offender. This clearly, when we talked to her, was upsetting to her. He'd already served his time. But, you know, I was really curious to understand why that was a piece that was such a big deal, so important to her. And I think she made a really good point because she talked about, like, well, she doesn't get the chance to sort of wipe this clean from her life. Like, even though she's moved on and she is happy and has a good life, it's not like this doesn't still affect her.

[Lola Blanc]

It's never over for Cassie. It's something that she lives with all the time. I mean, even in her first email to us, it was apparent how deeply present this still is in her life and in her mind.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I mean, that moment when she talked about, like, being reminded of it when she was giving birth, it's like, that sucks.

[Lola Blanc]

That sucks. That should be just, like, such a beautiful memory. I mean, childbirth is a lot of things, but, like, I think most of us are able to look back on it as, like, wow, what an incredible day. And hers is haunted by this terrible thing that happened to her.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, it definitely broadened my understanding of that perspective, and I was really appreciative of her for sharing her thoughts and feelings on it.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, we're really thankful to Cassie for sharing her story with us.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, thank you so much for listening. That is our episode for this week.

[Lola Blanc]

We'll be back next week. If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can follow us on Instagram henifepodcast or blueskyenifepodcast.

[Megan Elizabeth]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith.

[Lola Blanc]

And me, Patia Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breyfogle and Alexis Amorosi.

[Megan Elizabeth]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.

[Lola Blanc]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Lola Blanc]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Danielle Robaix]

Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

[Lola Blanc]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Danielle Robaix]

I'm Danielle Robaix and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit Apple Co ReeseAppleBooks to find out more.

[Lola Blanc]

We're siblings like you. Fight, you disagree.

[Paisha Eaton]

It's really hard to be in a partnership. You judge each other. You, you lead differently, and we've gotten to that edge.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Hey, I'm Simone Boyce, host of the Bright side, and this week I'm joined by Hollywood Hollywood power sisters Aaron and Sarah Foster. They're getting real about boundaries, rejection. Plus what's next for their hit Netflix series? Nobody wants this. Listen to the Bright side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paisha Eaton]

In 1920, a magazine article announced something incredible. Two young girls had photographed real fairies. But even more incredible, that article was written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the man who invented Sherlock Holmes. How did he fall for that? Hoax is a new podcast from me, Dana Schwartz, the host of Noble Blood, and me, Lizzy Logan. Every episode, we'll explore one of the most audacious and ambitious tricks in history and try to answer the question why we believe what we believe. Listen to Hoax on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.