Off Record: The Love Rat

Summary

The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

Episode: Off Record: The Love Rat

Date: July 23, 2026
Hosts: Hannah Smith & Patia Eaton

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Episode Overview

In this Off Record episode titled "The Love Rat," hosts Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton delve into a remarkable true story of romance fraud in Australia. With their hallmark blend of empathy, curiosity, and wit, they unravel the tale of “Arrow” (a.k.a. Rebecca), a woman who conned multiple men out of their hearts—and wallets—by weaving elaborate lies involving terminal illness, single parenthood, and love. This episode explores not only the deceit itself but the emotional devastation left in its wake, the resilience of the victims, and the unlikely friendships forged through hardship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction and Setting

• [02:05] Hannah shares a personal update: maternity leave is upcoming, but the team has pre-recorded episodes.
• [03:05] Introduction to the concept of a “love rat” — Australian slang for a romance fraudster or unfaithful individual.
  • “Have you ever heard this?... It's an Australian term for like a romance fraudster, a love rat, or someone who is unfaithful.” — Hannah Smith ([03:16])

2. Who Is the Love Rat?

• [04:33] The story is set in Perth, Australia, 2016.
• [05:10] Introduction to Sean, the victim—a gentle, hardworking man who works with kids with disabilities and longs for a family.
  • Sean meets “Arrow” (Rebecca) on Tinder—she claims to be an adventurous UK expat traveling with her six-month-old daughter.
• [07:52] On their first date, Arrow confides that she’s escaping an abusive ex and starting afresh.

3. Rapid Relationship Progression

• [09:13] Arrow, described as “engaging and dynamic,” quickly bonds with Sean, who envisions a future together.
• [10:14] Arrow tells Sean she has terminal liver cancer, claiming six months to live.
  • “She says…they think she has about six months to live.” — Hannah Smith ([10:14])
• Sean fully commits to supporting Arrow—caring for her child, driving her to (alleged) treatments, and helping financially.

4. Mounting Strains and Signs of Deceit

• [14:24] Arrow requests money for medical bills and the care of her daughter. Sean takes a second job, family notices his stress.
• [15:26] Arrow proposes a bucket-list adventure: the epic Nullarbor road trip from Perth to Adelaide, meeting Sean’s family at the destination.
  • Humorous exploration of the “epic” Nullarbor journey (“One of the big attractions is an enormous kangaroo statue holding a jar of Vegemite.” — Hannah Smith, [16:26])

5. Suspicious Events Begin to Surface

• [17:31] During the trip, Sean sees flirty messages from “Matt” appear on Arrow’s phone. She claims Matt is a “gay friend.”
  • “She says, oh, Matt, he's my gay friend. He's always texting me things like that.” — Hannah Smith ([18:56])
• [21:45] On Sean’s birthday, Arrow claims she’s pregnant, further deepening his emotional and financial investment.
  • Both hosts express skepticism about the plausibility of pregnancy during cancer treatment:
    “I would imagine you're on some pretty heavy medication that might make that difficult.” — Patia Eaton ([21:56])
• [27:25] Arrow goes on another solo adventure, then texts Sean claiming hospitalization for a miscarriage—a deceitful manipulation exposed later.

6. Financial and Emotional Manipulation Escalates

• [29:17] Arrow invents a custody battle with her UK ex (Sarah’s father), soliciting more money from Sean and even his parents.
• [31:18] She ropes Sean into odd jobs, including redecorating “Matt’s” house (a crucial plot detail for later revelations).
• [32:34] After 18 months of daily contact, Arrow abruptly ghosts Sean, prompting him to panic and seek her at Matt’s house.

7. The Unraveling: How the Truth Comes Out

• [35:46] Sean finds Arrow in bed at Matt’s house; she concocts another lie. Matt grows suspicious.
• [39:01] Matt checks Arrow’s phone, discovers her texts with Sean, and the two men finally connect, comparing their nearly identical experiences.
  • “Immediately, he's texting Shawn from his number, like, what's going on? Are you in a relationship with Arrow? Sean's like, yes. And Matt says, so am I.” — Hannah Smith ([40:17])
• They realize they have both been manipulated for about 18 months, providing emotional and financial support under false pretenses.

8. Arrow’s Pattern of Deception

• Both Matt and Sean were told Arrow had terminal cancer; both helped with (fictional) treatments, trips, and costs.
• Key revelation: Arrow alternated time between the men, used them to finance her lifestyle, and fabricated elaborate scenarios—including the miscarriage, the custody battle, and her illness.

9. Aftermath and Legal Outcomes

• Sean and Matt team up, track down Sarah’s real father, and learn this was a longstanding pattern—she’d lied about cancer to previous partners, too.
• The hosts reflect on the emotional devastation for all involved, particularly the young child at the center.
  • “You would think that if you're going to lie about having cancer, you're not going to say it's terminal. Because how do you convince someone that you have terminal cancer if you don't eventually die?” — Patia Eaton ([51:03])
• [55:10] Rebecca Gray (Arrow) is eventually convicted on three counts of fraud in 2018—totaling $11,000 AUD—earning a suspended eight-month sentence and losing custody of her daughter.
  • “It was her first charge. She had a clean record. And technically, you know, it's like, okay, so you defrauded these men of $11,000. It's not nothing, but, like, the emotional toll was so much bigger.” — Hannah Smith ([55:26])

10. Human Fallout and Resilience

• Despite trauma, Sean, Matt, and Sarah’s father form friendships, providing a supportive network for Sarah.
  • “All the ex-boyfriends now are friends and are all part of Sarah's life.” — Hannah Smith ([57:27])
• The episode closes on this unexpected but heartwarming outcome.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Love rat—sort of seems like it could be a stuffed animal. It's kind of cute, right?” — Hannah Smith [03:48]
• “If I am traveling to a destination, I need a gift shop.” — Patia Eaton [16:46]
• “Sean could use some self-care, probably.” — Hannah Smith [31:34]
• “It was like a magic trick. I don't know how she convinced me that everything was fine, but she's like, let's go out to the car...” — Hannah Smith describing Arrow’s manipulation [36:27]
• “They both see themselves as like an adopted dad to Sarah... they're both really involved in helping raise Sarah.” — Hannah Smith [40:49]
• “You would think that if you're gonna lie about having cancer, you're not gonna say it's terminal. Because how do you convince someone that you have terminal cancer if you don't eventually die?” — Patia Eaton [51:03]
• “All the ex-boyfriends now are friends and are all part of Sarah's life. That is so sweet.” — Patia Eaton [57:27]
• “Meeting people online, it's the norm now... But you really can reinvent yourself. Totally. Because you might not have any other social connection to the person you're meeting. And you can just lie.” — Patia Eaton and Hannah Smith [56:41–56:57]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:05]: Episode opens, Hannah’s maternity leave announcement
• [03:05]: “Love rat” explained; setting the Australian scene
• [05:10]: Introduction of Sean, the primary victim
• [10:14]: Arrow claims terminal cancer
• [14:24]: Sean takes on extra work, strain noted
• [17:31]: Text from “Matt” discovered
• [21:45]: Arrow announces pregnancy on Sean’s birthday
• [27:25]: Arrow claims miscarriage
• [31:18]: The Matt subplot—house painting and further financial muddying
• [35:46]: Sean enters Matt’s house, confronts Arrow
• [40:17]: Matt and Sean discover the truth
• [55:10]: Rebecca Gray/Arrow charged with fraud, sentencing and custody outcome
• [57:25]: Sean, Matt, and Sarah’s biological father form a supportive friendship

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Recommendations & Wrap-Up

• [58:04]: Patia recommends the HBO documentary “The Dark Wizard,” about climber BASE jumper Dean Potter.
• The episode ends on a note of support and resilience—trauma transformed into positive, lasting bonds.

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Takeaways

• Romance scams can involve complex, layered cruelty, reaching far beyond financial fraud into the territory of deep emotional trauma.
• Isolation, rapid emotional attachment, and manufactured crises are key manipulation tools of “love rats.”
• Despite immense victimization, community and friendship can emerge in the aftermath—a testament to human connection and healing.

Hosts’ Tone: Empathetic, curious, often dryly humorous, but always respectful of their subjects’ pain and tenacity.

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For Listeners

This thorough, human-centered episode is a compelling cautionary tale about the risks of online romance, the emotional fragility involved in sudden, high-intensity relationships, and the lasting strength of connection in the face of adversity.

Transcript

[Patia Eaton]

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Patia Eaton]

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Patia Eaton]

With secrets that change everything, Alice discovers there's a thin line between hunter and prey.

[Ad Read Voice 1]

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Patia Eaton]

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[Hannah Smith]

Goodbye.

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[Hannah Smith]

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Patia Eaton]

Welcome to the Knife Off Record. I'm Patia Eaton.

[Hannah Smith]

I'm Hannah Smith. And today I have a story for you, Patia. Okay, but before that, I wanna make a little announcement. So coming up very soon, I will be leaving the show temporarily. I am having a human child. So I will be taking off a little bit of time from the show. But Peisha and I have been recording in preparation for this. So we have some episodes ready to go for everybody.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, we've done some recording in advance, but, you know, there will be a few episodes where you hear less of Hannah, which we will all miss you. But you will be back.

[Hannah Smith]

I will be back.

[Patia Eaton]

We're all so excited for you.

[Hannah Smith]

Thank you. It'll be a new adventure.

[Patia Eaton]

A new adventure.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Okay, so onto the good stuff.

[Patia Eaton]

Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay, so this is a story out of Australia the headline caught my eye because of the term love rat. Have you ever heard this?

[Patia Eaton]

No, but I like it.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, it's an Australian term for like a romance fraudster, a love rat, or someone who is unfaithful. It's used in so many news articles.

[Patia Eaton]

This is like a technical term.

[Hannah Smith]

Love rat.

[Patia Eaton]

A love rat.

[Hannah Smith]

This is a story about a love rat.

[Patia Eaton]

I love the term love rat because I feel like con artists, because of the way we portray con artists in, like, movies or whatever, that they're like these smart, sexy, cunning individuals. It's like they're rats.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. But also love rat sort of seems like it could be a stuffed animal. It's kind of cute, right?

[Patia Eaton]

Like a jelly cat. This is the love rat.

[Hannah Smith]

This is the love rat.

[Patia Eaton]

$36 and your kid's going to lose him on your next flight.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. You have to have it.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

So I saw some articles about this and then searched around and I found a short documentary about it. It's actually just one episode of a series that I'd never heard of. Each episode is about a different romance scam. It's called Love Cheats. It's out of the UK and I couldn't find it streaming anywhere, but I watched this on YouTube with ads and I think you can buy episodes on Amazon and it was really good. So I'm excited actually to watch more of the episodes.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, great. Me too.

[Hannah Smith]

I also heard a radio interview with one of this love rat's victims. So let's get into it. So this takes place in Perth, Australia, in 2016. Perth is a coastal city in Western Australia. Have you ever been to Australia?

[Patia Eaton]

Never been. But Perth is where Donna Nelson and her family.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Patia Eaton]

This was a love rat.

[Hannah Smith]

This was also a love rat story that ended tragically.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. With Donna Nelson being in jail in Japan.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Okay. So this takes place in Perth, which is. You were saying it's on the coast.

[Hannah Smith]

It's in Western Australia.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

And it is a coastal city. Yeah. In 2016. Okay. So Sean, we meet Sean. He is just the nicest man.

[Patia Eaton]

Danger, danger.

[Hannah Smith]

So sweet. Now he is so Sean. Oh, I don't want to give away, but Sean's a victim.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, apologies.

[Hannah Smith]

He is just like such a sweet guy. He works with kids with disabilities. He's like a teacher and a coach and he's just living his life in Perth. I think probably in 2016. He was in his late 20s, maybe early 30s and kind of ready for a long term relationship. He really wanted to meet someone. He wanted to be a dad really badly. And so he's on Tinder one day and he matches with someone with the username Arrow and they start chatting and there's this immediate good conversation, good chemistry. And Arrow says that she just got to Australia recently, within the last couple weeks. And she has her six month old child with her. They are staying in a camper van. She's a very adventurous spirit type of person and she has this goal to travel around Australia and just sort of live this adventurous van life with her kid.

[Patia Eaton]

That does sound adventurous.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

I mean, just the flight there.

[Hannah Smith]

She's from the uk, but still. I don't know.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay. Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

Seems like a long flight.

[Patia Eaton]

Any flight to Australia alone with a toddler or an infant, I guess a six.

[Hannah Smith]

Six month old?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. What is just a baby.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

That's. You're brave.

[Hannah Smith]

My goal is to never bring my child on a plane until they're at least one.

[Patia Eaton]

I'm 100% behind you on that. It is.

[Hannah Smith]

It just seems hard.

[Patia Eaton]

It is really hard. It will test.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And she's just. But she's cruising, living it up in a van with her kid. She seems very laid back and Shawn likes this. So they decide to meet up for a drink. Okay. So the documentary says that she has a baby daughter. There was one article that said her son. The documentary, I think, changed some facts to protect different people. Some of the people's names are not what their real names are. It's unclear, you know, if this is her son or daughter, but doesn't really matter. It's her six month old child and we'll call her Sarah, just so that it's clear. So Arrow and Sarah meet up with Sean and it's just a blast. They have a great time. The conversation is flowing. It's like one of the best dates he's been on in a long time. He's also not freaked out at all that she has a kid because he loves kids and he like wants to be a family man.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. He works with children.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And Sarah's really cute and so he's like, great. Arrow does come clean to him on the first date. Her real name is not Arrow. Her name is Rebecca. But she's sort of on the run from an abusive ex in the uk, Sarah's dad. So she said she finally, like extricated herself from that horrible situation and left the country and is kind of trying to start over and like turn a fresh page in Australia. And this is endearing to Sean and he's like, I'm sorry. You went through that, but I'm glad you're here and hopefully things turn around for you.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. So she's living in her van with her six month old, just, like, driving around Perth or she has, like, a campsite situation.

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know if she, like, always stays in the same place. She has this camper van. He said that over the course of the time that he knows her, sometimes she has an apartment, other times she just wants to live in the van. And is this free spirit kind of person.

[Patia Eaton]

And how old are they? Do we know?

[Hannah Smith]

I think that she's like 30 at the time. They never say his age, but he seemed like he was probably like, late 20s, early 30s. And so on her Tinder profile, she would go by Arrow or sometimes Aro Anderson.

[Patia Eaton]

So Aro was not like a avatar name. It was her or, like account name, username, whatever it's called. Arrow was her name.

[Hannah Smith]

She also went by Arrow. He calls her Arrow throughout the document.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, so Arrows. Her name.

[Hannah Smith]

He knows that her name's Rebecca.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

She goes by either.

[Patia Eaton]

Gotcha.

[Hannah Smith]

Shawn described Arrow. I'll just call her Arrow for the sake of this podcast. Sean described Arrow as engaging and dynamic and just that things started to move quickly. They started to see each other all the time, and they're dating. Things are going really great. And about two to three months in, he's in deep. He's envisioning a future with her. He's bonded with baby Sarah, knowing that her dad is this abusive guy. He's sort of like, maybe I could be the guy that steps up and is like the dad in her life.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, she's only six months old. It's like if he's hitting it off with her mom. Aro, I feel like if you're a single mom, you want to meet someone who's, like, immediately not undeterred by you having a child. You don't want to have to convince them, right?

[Hannah Smith]

Totally.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

And so things are going really well. And this is when Arrow delivers the bad news to him.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, no.

[Hannah Smith]

She says she has terminal liver cancer. She says, you know, she's gotten different estimates from doctors, but they think she has about six months to live.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so six months to live. But she's in Australia and her whole family is in the uk.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay. Is she going to treatment in Australia?

[Hannah Smith]

She says she's gonna start treatment. She wants to fight it. She says she's had cancer before and she survived. So even though they're saying this is terminal, she's like, you know, I wanna do everything I can to fight this. I'm gonna start treatment. I have this daughter. And. And he is like, well, this is a new relationship. But he just makes the decision to commit to her and be a partner with her through this and be on board. So he's like, how can I support you? Can I drive you to doctor. You know, your doctor's appointments. She doesn't want him going in with her, but he'll babysit Sarah while she's.

[Patia Eaton]

Cause I was gonna say someone. You can't bring your baby in if you're getting, like, radiation or something.

[Hannah Smith]

He steps up in a big way.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

He's taking care of Sarah, babysitting her, driving Arrow to appointments, and knowing, you know, this could all end terribly for him. Like, she could die. But he already basically loves her and says, well, if she's only gonna live for six more months, I want them to be great, and I wanna spend them with her. And he's also starting to think about Sarah and think, okay, well, one of her parents is this abusive, terrible guy. What if her other parent dies? Like, what is my place in this? And kind of preparing. Like, I might have to step up and, like, adopt her and be like her dad, you know?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Is he asking Arrow, doesn't your family want you to come home while you're going through this?

[Hannah Smith]

They don't talk about her family. And I couldn't find anything about her family in articles.

[Patia Eaton]

Maybe she had her reasons.

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know what she told him about that, but she didn't say that she had any plans to go back to the uk. She was gonna stay in Australia. In the documentary, they show videos and photos of them together going to the beach. Like, family home video type of stuff. Just living their lives so, you know, they continue to be together. Sometimes she would. He said she would seem really sick and be throwing up and have, like, aches and pains. Other times she was better, but that kind of felt normal to him. Like, in between these harsher treatments, she starts to feel better. And then she goes in for treatments, and she says she has to have these series of treatments. At one point, she has to have transfusions.

[Patia Eaton]

And is that like blood?

[Hannah Smith]

Blood transfusions?

[Patia Eaton]

That sounds intense.

[Hannah Smith]

She has all these text messages. So she'll update him about, like, I'm really hopeful that this will work. And then she'll have the bad news of that. It really didn't work, but we're going to try something different. At one point, she says she has to have a spinal tap. And it seems like they text a lot when they're not with each other. And so there's this whole record kind of of everything that they say to each other in this conversation. And it really comes off as this roller coaster where she'll say, I think I'm feeling better and things are going well. And then it'll just be like, a downturn of, like, bad news from the doctor today.

[Patia Eaton]

And it's liver cancer. Does she know what stage?

[Hannah Smith]

They never say the stage.

[Patia Eaton]

Did she have, like, a prognosis of, you know, I'm expected to live this long, or. It was just like, she said it

[Hannah Smith]

was terminal and that she was given six months.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, six months, maybe. You already said that. Okay. Wow. Okay. So six months is now, and that's

[Hannah Smith]

about three months into their relationship.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, right. Because then he just makes this decision, like, I'm just gonna be with her for those six months, if that's what this is. Because I just care so deeply already.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Yeah. And Sean has a steady job, but he is starting to, like, help pay for things for Sarah, and she needs help with her medical bills sometimes. So he ends up getting, like, a second job. He starts driving for Uber. And they interview his friends, one of his friends and his mom, actually, in the documentary, and they're again, so nice, and they talk about what a strain this period of time was on him. Like, they could tell that he was stressed. He's working more. He's feeling the financial strain. He has this worry about Arrow, and if he's gonna, like, lose this woman that he loves.

[Patia Eaton]

And he's caring for a baby, and

[Hannah Smith]

he's caring for a baby. So it's very stressful. But he's super committed to her. So then six months into their relationship, so this is like, three months after she gets this terrible diagnosis. Okay. She says she wants to do this road trip. It's on her bucket list. It's this sort of famous Australian road trip. It's across the Nullarbor. Nullarbor. Going from Perth to Adelaide. The Nullarbor. I looked this up. It's this sort of. There's a lot of, like, blogs about it, a lot of travel writing about, you gotta do the epic Nullabor road trip. And it's basically going kind of across the southern coast of Australia from Western Australia going east to Adelaide. And it's described as this very rural stretch of road. If you drove it nonstop, it would take 12 hours. But most people, if you're going to do the road trip, take Three to four days to do it.

[Patia Eaton]

And if you're going to do it with a baby, I mean, how long can you leave your little baby in a car seat? Like, you don't have to do a lot of stops.

[Hannah Smith]

I mean, it's this treeless expanse full of wildlife. Super rural. They say to bring your own water because there's not that many fuel stops. You really have to plan this.

[Patia Eaton]

This is not for me. This is not for me.

[Hannah Smith]

I immediately clocked patient. I would never do this again. People kept writing, oh, it's so epic. You have to do it. I assume it's because there's beautiful nature, things to see. I did see a picture at one point. It's on the coast and there's like beautiful cliffs. And then the oce it looked really nice, but I couldn't really tell why it was so epic other than that. Like, one blog I read listed the best stops. And it was like, there's a museum that had some old, like, flight equipment. Like, I was like, what is in this museum?

[Patia Eaton]

No, I know, like, I live in California. I'm from the Northwest. I've seen a cliff I'd rather not, like, drive through somewhere where I better bring my own water.

[Hannah Smith]

One of the big attractions is an enormous kangaroo statue that's holding a jar of Vegemite.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay. See, now my kid would love this.

[Hannah Smith]

She would love to take a picture of her.

[Patia Eaton]

She loves to take a picture of it. If they had a gift shop, she'd go, ham.

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know that there's a gift shop. It might just be a statue in the desert.

[Patia Eaton]

If I am traveling to a destination, I need a gift shop.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I don't know how many gift shops there are along the Nula Bar. I think very few.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, well, okay, so they're doing this with a six month old and it's gonna take them at least four days.

[Hannah Smith]

Probably like three or four days, depending. Okay. And so Sean likes this idea because he's like, well, this is on your bucket list. This will be an adventure. Let's do it together. Also, his family lives in Adelaide. That's where he's from. And so they're in Perth. So they're gonna drive to Adelaide and then they'll see his family and she can meet his family. So they do this. They go on this road trip and it's really fun. They take a lot of pictures, do all the stops, and get to Adelaide. And this is where he introduces Arrow and Sarah to his mom.

[Patia Eaton]

The big step.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And he's Already, like, told his mom all about them. She's thrilled. She loves them. She basically feels like she's meeting her grandchild and her potential daughter in law. And everyone gets along super well. It's like this very happy, emotional thing. And they're gonna be there for like, eight days or something. But then one day while they're there, Ariel leaves her phone on the table and Sean sees a message pop up on it. And it is from someone named Matt. Not his real name. I'm just calling him that. And it says, hi, baby with a heart emoji.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay. See, Leaving your phone on a table, if you are up to no good, unfathomable to me. Like, the stress that I would live with, even if I was so committed to doing something like that, the stress that I would live with clocking where my phone was at all times. I also, like, I don't even get important text messages or secretive text messages. And I have it set up where the text doesn't show up. It's just a name.

[Hannah Smith]

What are you hiding, Patia?

[Patia Eaton]

I just feel like, what if my. You know, what if my friend texts me something she doesn't want the whole room to see?

[Hannah Smith]

This is true.

[Patia Eaton]

Like, just for that reason alone. So to be so confident, to just like, set your phone down and walk away. Okay, so who is Matt?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And this was in 2016, but I still feel like that was the case then.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

You know, so Sean is sort of freaking out. Who is Matt? Is a good question. He confronts Arrow. She says, oh, Matt, he's my gay friend. He's always texting me things like that. Right.

[Patia Eaton]

Classic.

[Hannah Smith]

He's, like, so loving, but it's not romantic or anything. You know, he's gay. So Sean is sort of like, okay, but, you know, again, it's that thing where he has so much invested in this. They're at his mom's house. He's like, okay, all right.

[Patia Eaton]

You know, sounds like they're spending every waking moment together, so that's gotta be a little bit reassuring.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And they just did this epic road trip.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. She's meeting his family.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And they still have, like, a week left there. And his birthday is coming up. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Hannah Smith]

Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment

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[Hannah Smith]

So on his birthday, she has another big thing to tell him. And she tells him I'm pregnant.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, I have so many questions because I don't know everything there is to know about cancer treatment. I know very little. But like I would imagine that you're on some pretty heavy medication that might make that difficult.

[Hannah Smith]

100% not to mention or even dangerous. Dangerous fetus, right?

[Patia Eaton]

Like to her. To the fetus, you know she already is looking at possibly dying. Dying when her daughter's a baby.

[Hannah Smith]

She has only three months left of her six month prognosis to live but announces that she's pregnant.

[Patia Eaton]

Right? Like that is so bizarre because I would Think that would be heavy on your mind to just situate your daughter that you already have in your life?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay. So.

[Hannah Smith]

But she says it with, like, she's really happy. He's really happy. He's thrilled. Cause he's like.

[Patia Eaton]

Cause he loves her.

[Hannah Smith]

He loves her. He's like, family guy.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

He's like, great, let's have another kid. This is amazing. When he tells his friends and his mom, they both sort of say, yeah, I was sort of concerned because I thought, well, she has cancer.

[Patia Eaton]

They had the reaction that we just did. Yeah. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

But they also didn't want to be too invasive and were like, well, I don't know, like, fully what's going on with her health? And obviously, you guys are really excited, so I don't wanna rain on your parade here.

[Patia Eaton]

Right. Like, there's only one acceptable response to someone telling you they're pregnant, and that is congratulations. Like, truly.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So they really bond over this. It's interesting that she tells him this, like, shortly after, she gets this text from Matt, and he's kind of like, what's going on? And then suddenly, but, I'm pregnant. We're gonna have another baby, and it's gonna be amazing.

[Patia Eaton]

Suspect.

[Ad Read Voice 1]

Suspect.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

So they tell his mom, you're gonna be a grandma. Then Arrow tells him, you know what? You should stay in Adelaide a few more days with your family because you're having such a good time here. I really wanted to do, like, when I first moved to Australia, my goal was to travel around in this camper van with Sarah, my daughter, and just, like, have some mother daughter, you know, road tripping, adventuring. So now that we've done the Nular, like, I want to do the return

[Patia Eaton]

trip by myself, which it's like, on the one hand, I guess I understand any mom wanting one on one time with their baby, especially in a situation like this where you might not be living for very long. But on the other, it's like, if you're in a country that you're not from and you are living out of a van and you're living with cancer that you're actively treating, I would think you would want all hands on deck.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Like, what if I'm sick tomorrow and I need someone to change a diaper or run out and get more food for her or whatever it is, that's like, yeah, it just sounds really unsafe.

[Hannah Smith]

Honestly, that's what he thought, too. But it sort of, like, sounds like she was very convincing. And also, his mom said something like, it didn't seem Like, a good idea. But also she just seemed so brave, so adventurous, and, like, nothing could stop her. And I wonder if that's also how they're sort of looking at this cancer diagnosis. Like, she's kind of like, I can beat it. You know, they say I have. It's terminal, but I'm gonna live my life. Like, she kind of had this unstoppable

[Patia Eaton]

quality to her, which sounds like, you know, one of the reasons that he was so drawn to her is that she had this adventurous spirit and seemed to have, like, a positive demeanor and outlook on life. But on the other, it's like, I don't know, do doctors go around giving terminal diagnoses to people who aren terminal? That seems like a. That would not be the doctor I would want.

[Hannah Smith]

No. So anyway, she does it. And so the whole time that she's on the way back, he's getting texts. Some of them are like, oh, the van broke down. I'm so stressed out. So he's like, sending her money to get it repaired. But then he's also getting great text messages, pictures of her and Sarah, like, on the road. And she's texting him all this stuff about how excited she is to have this kid with him. And so he's basically just thrilled. He's just like, wow, I can't believe that we're going to have a baby together. So then he flies back to Perth. They're back in Perth together. This is about four weeks later. And again, she wants to go on an adventure. She has a holiday coming up from it sounds like she doesn't really have a steady job, but she'll get jobs here and there. And there's a national holiday coming up. And so she says, hey, I'm going to go camping with some of my girlfriends.

[Patia Eaton]

So she really is not having a lot of early pregnancy symptoms. That must must be the case because that is already challenging.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And plus, like, having to go through treatments. I don't know how that was all working. Yeah, he wasn't really included in that. Like, she would keep him abreast of stuff, but he never met her doctor or, like, went to any of her doctor's appointments with her. So she says, I'm going to go camping with some girlfriends again. He's like, this doesn't seem like a great idea. Like, what if you get sick? Or what if you're not feeling well? She's like, it'll be fine. So over the weekend, she's somewhere else camping in a rural location with her girlfriend, and he gets A text from her late at night one night that says, like, I'm really not feeling well. Something's wrong. He's like, okay, where are you? I'll come. She's like, no, no, no. Don't worry. Like, I'm already on my way to the hospital. Like, you don't have to come, but I just want to let you know.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, it's like sending a text like that, but don't worry. I mean, how could someone not worry at that point?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

And he's watching Sarah while she's camping.

[Hannah Smith]

It's unclear.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

So he's texting her, Texting her, are you okay? What's going on? Calling her. She's not responding for a long time. And then she finally texts him that she's had a miscarriage.

[Patia Eaton]

Do we know how many weeks she says she is?

[Hannah Smith]

This was a month after she told him.

[Patia Eaton]

So presumably, like, this would be on the earlier side, but, you know, still could be a very difficult experience.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And so she said she's in the hospital. She's devastated. He's devastated, you know, but he says, you know, this is a really hard thing to hear and go through, but it also makes him just feel more bonded to her and, like, it's okay. We're gonna get through this. And he also felt like, well, I want to have a kid with you someday. Like, we have a future together, and we'll get through all of this. He seems like such a good guy.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, it's so sweet. It's also, like, from what I know about cancer treatment, you're advised to freeze eggs.

[Hannah Smith]

I know. I'm like.

[Patia Eaton]

But also in 2016, I mean. But yeah. And maybe this is just, like, things have changed a lot. Even in the last five years, I feel like I'm hearing so much more about egg freezing than ever before. And not just obviously for people with cancer, but for women who want to just preserve that option for later in their life. I mean, I don't know.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. But I have heard that some cancer treatments will affect your fertility. So, yeah, that's a potentially pretty big issue.

[Patia Eaton]

I mean. Yeah. And miscarriage is no small thing, no matter when it happens, obviously. But just thinking about her fragile health, that's terrible.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And so they get through this. She's, you know, starting to feel, you know, better. And then a few weeks later, it's like. It's just, like one thing after the other. A few weeks later, she tells Arrow, tells Sean that Sarah's dad, the abusive guy in the uk, has started a Custody battle over Sarah, and this ends up being true. And Sarah's dad supposedly has put a lot of money into this. Gotten a really good lawyer. Now Arrow is sort of freaking out, like, I need to also put money into this. I need to not let him take my child. And Sean obviously feels very invested in this as well. So now he's just giving her more money because the court costs are adding up. She needs to get an attorney. She has to like, pay all these fees. He starts asking his parents for money. They give him like multiple thousands of dollars toward Arrows. Court battle and court case.

[Patia Eaton]

This is such an intense start to their relationship.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

To be dealing with a custody battle, a terminal illness and a miscarriage.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So I think they're maybe like a year in now, and she's obviously still alive. And this is like a random thing that they talked about, but it will be important for later. So Arrow tells him that her gay best friend Matt is going out of the country and he's purchased this house, but she has offered to help him decorate it and kind of get it nice looking and that he might give them some money for this. And so this would be a good idea to help with the cost. So Sean, who's already working like multiple jobs, agrees to come help her do this for like a week. And he's like, she kind of would help sometimes, but then she's feeling sick. So he's like painting the walls in Matt's house and doing all of this work.

[Patia Eaton]

Has he met Ma?

[Hannah Smith]

Never met Matt.

[Patia Eaton]

I want to meet Matt.

[Hannah Smith]

He's never met Matt.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, so he's never met Matt. I mean, the energy level here is really impressive. Like caring for a baby, working, caring for Arrow, who's terminally ill. I mean, Sean, he has a lot of, like, stamina.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Sean could use some self care, probably.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

And then like, you know, redoing Matt's house, who he's never met.

[Patia Eaton]

It's awfully nice.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So, you know, time goes by when Sean and Arrow have been together 18 months. So a year and a half.

[Patia Eaton]

So she's outlived her.

[Hannah Smith]

She's outlived her six months. Six months. And I don't know exactly how that's getting explained or if she's in remission or what. One day she just ghosts him. They've been in basically daily contact for a year and a half.

[Patia Eaton]

And that also means, like, over that year and a half, Sarah has become a toddler that he's been probably very bonded to and vice versa.

[Hannah Smith]

She's like two now and she just ghosts him.

[Patia Eaton]

Do you know how it happened? Like he comes home and she's not there.

[Hannah Smith]

Or they weren't living together ever. I think that she was either in the van or would have apartments here and there. So she would stay with him a lot, but they were never like officially living together, it sounds like.

[Patia Eaton]

And then she's just gone.

[Hannah Smith]

So he's texting her. He can't get ahold of her for, I don't know, a day. It's like not a ton of time. But when you're usually in contact all the time and there's all these questions about her health, he starts to really worry. Like, oh my gosh, this thing happened. Is she in a hospital?

[Patia Eaton]

Right?

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[Hannah Smith]

He's texting her. He's calling her. Not. Eventually, he gets so worried. The only place he can think of to go is Matt's house. Because he knows where Matt lives, right? Because he painted the inside of his house.

[Patia Eaton]

He renovated it. Yeah. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

He's never met Matt, but he's like, maybe Matt knows something about where she is or whatever. So he drives to Matt's house, because

[Patia Eaton]

surely if he knows about Matt, Matt must know about him.

[Hannah Smith]

He assumes so. Right.

[Patia Eaton]

Reasonable assumption.

[Hannah Smith]

He drives to Matt's house, knocks on the door. A guy comes, answers the door, and he's like, are you Matt? The guy's like, yeah. He's like, is Arrow here? And he says, yeah. And Sean just busts through the door and is, like, looking for her, like, freaking out. And he finds her in Matt's bedroom in bed.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Hannah Smith]

And he's like, what the hell?

[Patia Eaton]

So Matt is not her.

[Hannah Smith]

Arrow explains her way out of this one, how he is, like. It was like a magic trick. I don't know how she convinced me that everything was fine, but she's like, let's go out to the car. So they go, sit down.

[Patia Eaton]

Let me put my clothes on. Let's go out to the car. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

She's like, look, I guess Arrow and Shawn had been in, like, a little bit of a disagreement before she ghosts him. She was like, I was really upset, and I just called Matt and was like, I need to come over and bring a bottle of wine and just, like, have some friend time. She's like, we stayed up all night chatting. I was ignoring your messages. I was upset. And then he slept on the couch. I just passed out in the bedroom. And somehow Sean accepts this story.

[Patia Eaton]

Where is Matt? Is Matt just in the house? Matt's in the house, I guess. Go have your conversation.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. She's like, I'll take care of this to Matt. And then is telling Sean all this stuff.

[Patia Eaton]

Do we know where Sarah is in this moment?

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know. I think that Sarah's there too, at the house.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

So somehow Sean accepts this enough to leave the house. And she's like, I'll talk to you soon. He's like, okay. But here's where things all start to come together. Because, you know, as much as Sean has accepted this story, there's also Matt's version of things where a random guy shows up at his house and bo through his door and is clearly upset that Arrow is there.

[Patia Eaton]

Arrow has described Matt as her gay friend. Does he have any inkling? Like, are they just friends?

[Hannah Smith]

I mean, it seems like his first initial impression was, no, they've been sleeping together. But then she convinces him, Right? But Matt is not gay, and he is, in fact, also dating Arrow. Okay, shocker.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

So when Arrow comes back into the house, Matt has questions for her. Who is that guy? What is going on?

[Patia Eaton]

I'm glad he's asking some questions. The hard hitters.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. How does he know where I live? And I don't know exactly what she tells Matt, but he seems to be like, okay, that makes sense. But really, he's quite suspicious, but he lets it go. And then a couple days later, she's having, like, a bad spell from her, I guess, like, cancer treatment that she's still going through and is like, I gotta go lay down. And again, I don't know if she leaves her phone out or what, but he is like, I'm going through her phone. So he takes.

[Patia Eaton]

Wait, this is Matt still, right?

[Hannah Smith]

This is Matt.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, Matt's gonna go through the phone.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Just the fact that that phone isn't locked down, like, CIA level, I can't imagine.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Oh. Because what happens is her phone again is sitting on the counter, and he sees a text pop up from Sean, and he's like, this is the guy that she has.

[Patia Eaton]

She's like, that's my gay friend.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And so he sees it pop up and he's like, this is the guy that was just at my house or whatever. And then he asks her, oh, who was that? And she says, oh, it was my mom or something. She clearly lies.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh. But he knows that it's Shawn.

[Hannah Smith]

Cause he's seen the screen. Or like, he saw. I think Shawn texted you. And so he's like, okay, she's lying to you.

[Patia Eaton]

To me.

[Hannah Smith]

So whenever she goes and lays down, he takes her phone and I guess knows her password or something. He gets into her phone and he starts looking through it, and he finds Sean, and he looks through their text message history. And he sees everything. He sees, like, okay, this whole thing about the pregnancy and the miscarriage and that they're in a relationship. And. And I mean, he's just reading all of it. He's like, I can't believe this. And the first thing he does is he contacts Shawn directly.

[Patia Eaton]

I love that.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Immediately, he's texting Shawn from his number, like, what's going on? Are you in a relationship with Arrow? Sean's like, yes. And Matt says, so am I.

[Patia Eaton]

He's like, I thought you were gay.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, he did say that. She told me you were gay. And he's like, no, I've been dating her. And it turns out they have both been dating about the same amount of time.

[Patia Eaton]

Unfortunate.

[Hannah Smith]

They both see themselves as like an adopted dad to Sarah.

[Patia Eaton]

No, that's devastating.

[Hannah Smith]

They're both really involved in helping raise Sarah. Like, taking care of her, buying things for her. They start to put stuff together and they realize. They both think that they're sharing costs of living with Arrow, but they're sharing with each other. Yes.

[Patia Eaton]

No.

[Hannah Smith]

So it's like, I'm gonna buy Sarah this thing. And Ariel's like, yeah, I wanna get her this other thing, like a tricycle and something else.

[Patia Eaton]

Not a tricycle, but that stuff that, like, Shawn bought her.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So she's not really paying for anything.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

Half of the expenses, even, like, for her van. Shawn said she paid for the registration, but I decided I would do, like, upkeep, like oil changes.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, no. And Matt's like, I paid for the registration.

[Hannah Smith]

I paid for the registration.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, no.

[Hannah Smith]

She has these men splitting all of

[Patia Eaton]

the costs, which, like, if everything's out in the open. Yeah, for sure. Go for it. What do I care? But you can't lie to people.

[Hannah Smith]

No. So they start to go back through each of them their year and a half relationship with Arrow and start to, like, talk about dates and things that happen and it's all coming together.

[Patia Eaton]

And is Matt also under the impression that Arrow has cancer?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So here's. I'm gonna tell you Matt's timeline. Now, Matt's story, what comes out. So Matt met Arrow two weeks about before she met Sean. Also on Tinder. Also, you know, she was going by Arrow. Matt had just gone through a major breakup. Like, not married, but was engaged and broke up. Decided to get back online on Tinder. He meets era, very similar things. Like, they meet up. He says it just felt like instant connection. He was like, it looks like she was, like, looking into my soul. We just had this, like, immediate connection. Also, I loved her daughter. Like, I thought that was cool. So we started dating and for three months everything was great. And then she dropped the news that she had terminal cancer.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, no.

[Hannah Smith]

Again, Matt, he commits to support her through this.

[Patia Eaton]

So do all single women need to move to Australia? Because I feel like the men there just sound so kind and generous.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I mean, both of these men are like, you know what, I got you.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

So he's also taking her to her appointments, dropping her off, picking her up when she's getting chemo. She never wanted him to come into the appointments. Same thing. He remembered multiple instances of her saying things like showing him a comb and saying, look how much hair has come out of my head. Or look at this hair on my pillow. Like my hair is starting to fall out. He said it was really distressing. He was like so sad and worried for her.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

And then about three months later, she said, you know, I want to do this road trip across the Nullarbor, but I want to do it by myself. You know, me and Sarah, we're going to do this and then we're going to spend time at Adelaide. But you know what, you should fly there and then we can road trip back together.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow. Wow. Okay. So she was really like scheming here. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

So when she left Shawn and his mom that day and was like, okay, bye, we're going to go.

[Patia Eaton]

I want quality one on one time with my baby.

[Hannah Smith]

She drove to Adelaide airport and picked up Matt who had just flown in.

[Patia Eaton]

That is like diabolical.

[Hannah Smith]

And then they road tripped back together.

[Patia Eaton]

I'm sure she's in Adelaide meeting who Sean thinks are his girlfriend's future in laws. Like he's introducing her to the family.

[Hannah Smith]

She just told them all that she's pregnant.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

And then she goes picks up Matt. Matt of course has no idea. Right. And they road trip back together. You know, Matt said, yeah, I did go to Scotland on a work trip and I didn't ask her to do anything to my house. But she was like, I really want to do this for you.

[Patia Eaton]

And at what point is Shawn like, well, that was me.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Sean's like, I painted your house.

[Patia Eaton]

I mean, it's horrible. It's actually, it's horrible. But that is like, it's amazing.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And he was like, I didn't even need her to do that. I mean, it was nice. But I came back and he's like, my house looked great.

[Patia Eaton]

What is with these fraudsters also simultaneously being people pleasers where it's like, all of these, like, grandiose gestures that no one asked for, but it's also just a con.

[Hannah Smith]

Like, you told a story recently. I can't remember what story it was.

[Patia Eaton]

It was the Lisa.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, we just did that story recently

[Patia Eaton]

about Lisa Tickenmayer, but she has similar tendencies. According to the people we spoke with, where it was like, with Pete, she's like, I'm gonna get your daughter a job. I'm gonna get your daughter a car. He never asked her to do that.

[Hannah Smith]

I didn't need any of this.

[Patia Eaton]

I don't need any of this. I just want. Liked dating you and wanted to be in a relationship, and then.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

So it's kind of similar there. And I don't know who paid for the paint and the supplies and everything, because I never went into that. But. But when he got back from Scotland.

[Patia Eaton]

But not Arrow.

[Hannah Smith]

But probably not Arrow, right?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

When he got back from Scotland, he was like, my house looks amazing. And he paid her, like, $4,000 for her time. And of course, she didn't give that to Sean.

[Patia Eaton]

Right.

[Hannah Smith]

So she took that money. And then it's the weekend of the holiday where she was supposedly camping with her girlfriends. The weekend she said she had a miscarriage at the hospital. They, like, lined up the dates, and Matt said, no, I went camping with her that weekend.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

And I was with her the whole time. He remembered waking up in their tent one night late, and she was on her phone, and he said, what are you doing? And she said, I just can't sleep. I'm just on the Internet. He didn't think much of it and went back to sleep. And they lined it up, and it was like, that's when she was texting Shawn that she was at the hospital having a miscarriage, which is so.

[Patia Eaton]

I mean, it's an awful lot to tell someone that you're pregnant and then that you're miscarrying. But it's like, the timing is interesting. It's like, does she get some sort of rush from doing it literally while she's sleeping next to the other person?

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know.

[Patia Eaton]

Like, can you not wait till you're in the bathroom with the door closed to send a text message like that? It has to be next to the person that you're also lying to?

[Hannah Smith]

I mean, I guess she waited till he was asleep, and also she waited until she wasn't physically in the same city as Shawn to tell him true. So that, like, he couldn't come to a local hospital. And she Also was probably thinking, there's a timeline on this, because ultimately they come to the conclusion that she was never pregnant, most likely. So, you know, she had to figure out some period of time where she could have a miscarriage.

[Patia Eaton]

That's just so traumatic.

[Hannah Smith]

It's horrible.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. To think that you're gonna have a baby and then to know that your partner that you were excited to have a baby with is miscarrying. Of course you're worried about them and what they're going through physically and emotionally. But I'm sure that the other person is also mourning that loss in their own way. And, I mean, it's all terrible, though. Like cancer. I mean, I don't know where the cancer's going, but I imagine there's more lies.

[Hannah Smith]

Probably more lies are imminent. So Matt, to his credit, after he talks with Sean for several hours, he confronts Arrow and says, look, I just talked with Sean. We know everything. We're done. You need to leave my house. He kicks her out. He never talks to her again. And she immediately runs to Sean and is like, matt's lying.

[Patia Eaton]

It's like, well, then what's he lying about? Why would your gay friend be incentivized to lie and say that you guys were in a relationship with all of these similarities to ours?

[Hannah Smith]

It doesn't make any sense.

[Patia Eaton]

Makes no sense at this point.

[Hannah Smith]

Shawn has seen the receipts.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

He's like, I can't believe you. Like, I know that you've done all these things. And he says, you probably don't even have cancer. And she says, no, I do have cancer. Shawn says that he felt like he was having a mental breakdown. He was, like, losing touch with reality almost at that point because he couldn't believe that everything was a lie and that he thought he was building a future with this person. And this whole time, she had been doing the same thing with someone else. It had all been a lie. He was like, I couldn't, like, figure out what was real.

[Patia Eaton]

Isn't it interesting? It's like this physical. I don't know what the word is. Like, phenomenon. When we're in a moment like that. If we're ever in a moment like that. Like, Pete with Lisa described the same feeling when the detective was telling him, no, all of this has been a lie. He said it just went black. Like, his vision just went black.

[Hannah Smith]

Like your brain can't compute.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, you and I have worked on so many, like, cult stories or fraud stories where it's a very similar reaction, where you're still even like days, months, weeks, years later. Like, you know, I said that all out of order, but, like, you're remembering things like. Oh, that wasn't real either.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Slowly processing it over time.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Yeah, terrible.

[Hannah Smith]

So Sean also distances himself from her and he decides to start investigating. First thing he thinks is what's really going on with Sarah's father in the uk. And one of my favorite parts of the story is that Matt and Sean become friends.

[Patia Eaton]

I do love that. I mean, the guy painted your whole house. Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

And so together they're like, we gotta get to the bottom of this.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. And thinking of Arrow's daughter Sarah being bonded to these people and then just her mom being the reason that she's then ripped away from them is like, that's so traumatic. Horrible.

[Hannah Smith]

So they track down Sarah's dad, who's not named in any of this. And of course, the things that Sarah has said about him are not true. He describes that he. So he's in the uk, he and Sarah were together for four and a half years, and he nursed her through a terminal cancer diagnosis.

[Patia Eaton]

Okay, see, I mean, I'm not surprised to hear this in one sense, but I'm like, you would think that if you're gonna lie about having cancer, you're not gonna say it's terminal. Because how do you convince someone that you have terminal cancer if you don't eventually die?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, I know. Because they then have a child together. Right. But she's still saying she has terminal cancer. And eventually it gets to the point where he says to her, I need to talk with your oncologist. I need you to bring me into the doctor's office. Like, I need answers. You've been saying for four and a half years that you're dying of cancer. We've had a child together. Like, what is going on? And that is when she just just fled to Australia and left him behind with no answers.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow. And that's so reasonable. Like, you have a kid with someone and they're telling you they have a terminal illness, you need to be ready to help advocate for them in like, the later stages of their disease. Of course you need to be able to speak with their oncologist. Like, you know, it sounds like they were married or were they not?

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know if they were married.

[Patia Eaton]

Well, they at least had a child together and like that. I mean, how much more involved with someone can you really be?

[Hannah Smith]

So then she just leaves the country with their six month old child and I imagine he's searching for her. Doesn't know where she is. So whenever he started that custody battle, it actually was true. He is, at this time was fighting for their daughter because he had located her and was like, I'm her dad. I want her in my life. And also, I think you've been lying to me about all this stuff.

[Patia Eaton]

How did he find her? Did she tell him where she was going?

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know. I don't think that he's wanted his identity out at all. So there's very little details about him as well as, like, their child. But Sean and Matt get this information and speak with him. And then Sean even tracks down a previous boyfriend. I don't know if he hears about him from Sarah's dad. You know, he also knows, okay, she had a boyfriend before Sarah's dad in the uk and somehow he's able to track this guy down. So this is like seven years prior or something. And that boyfriend also said, yeah, I was with her. And she said she had terminal liver cancer, and same thing. I was never allowed to go to the doctor's appointment with her. And they eventually broke up. And that guy never, like, kept up with her. So he didn't know what was going on.

[Patia Eaton]

He probably didn't even know she was actually alive. Alive, yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

So at this point, Shawn is like, okay, this is clearly a pattern. I also don't think that she has or has ever had cancer, and she's just been doing this to guy after guy and using it to manipulate them and their money. And also, he thinks for the drama, he's like, there was always some drama all the time, and she created that, you know? So Shawn is like, okay, I want to warn other people. He doesn't really know how to do it, but he goes on Facebook, he knows some people that he can tell she's been in contact with. I don't know if he's making posts or he's messaging people, but he starts to spread the word. Look, this is what this woman Rebecca, who goes by Arrow, is doing. And everyone needs to be aware, I think, because he starts trying to warn people. She then, in retaliation, claims to the local police department that he's stalking her. Right? So a detective gets in contact with Shawn and is basically like, I have accusations that you've been stalking this woman, and I need you to come in and talk with us. And Shawn is like, yeah, okay.

[Patia Eaton]

Oh, okay.

[Hannah Smith]

I'll come in and tell you everything.

[Patia Eaton]

So the men in Australia are confident, chivalrous, open to just want to be like, good dad, family. Yeah, I want to be good dads. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

And so he goes in, he also talks with Matt because they're buddies and is like, will you also come in and give your statement?

[Patia Eaton]

Smart. Yeah. Power in numbers. Right?

[Hannah Smith]

So it's very quick that the detective drops this stalking charge and starts investigating Arrow Rebecca for fraud. Matt gave her over 7,000 Australian dollars, and Sean gave her, like, over 4,000. I think together collectively, it was like $11,000. So there's like, some things you could use for a fraud charge. And they start investigating her. She's charged in 2018. Rebecca Gray is her name.

[Patia Eaton]

Still living in Australia. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

And In December of 2018, she pleaded guilty to three counts of fraud. She's given an eight month sentence, suspended for 12 months. So basically, 12 months of probation.

[Patia Eaton]

That's so.

[Hannah Smith]

I mean, it was her first charge. She had a clean record. And technically, you know, it's like, okay, so you defrauded these men of $11,000. It's not nothing, but, like, the emotional toll was so much bigger than, like, what was provable to be a crime in court.

[Patia Eaton]

Right.

[Hannah Smith]

So essentially just like 12 months of probation.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

But because she has this, you know, criminal charge now, it impacted the custody battle, and Sarah's dad ended up getting custody of her.

[Patia Eaton]

Awesome.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Oh, I have to say, too, when she shows up in court, December of 2018, first she comes in a wheelchair, and then another day she's on crutches. Perfect. Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

You know, it's amazing. Like, these people, they get caught. You would think, okay, I've been caught. The act is up. I'm gonna be on my best behavior right now. It's like, no, I can probably still manipulate this somehow, some way.

[Hannah Smith]

And she said that she had some unspecified ailment. Ailment that she is unclear about. Right, right. And so her whereabouts now are. There's speculation that she's left Australia, but she's just free and wandering around. She's out there.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow. I cannot believe that.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Meeting people online, it's the norm now. There's nothing wrong with that at all. But. But you really can reinvent yourself. Totally. Because you might not have any other social connection to the person you're meeting. And you can just lie.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Change your name, move to a different country. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, yeah, she's out there. And Shawn said she never admitted to him or Matt or any of the guys that she never had cancer. But I do believe they were able to, like, prove that in court. So the positive thing of this story is that I said Sean and Matt became Friends. They also became friends with Sarah's dad in the uk. So Sean and Matt are still in Sarah's life.

[Patia Eaton]

All the ex boyfriends, all the ex

[Hannah Smith]

boyfriends now all the ex are friends and are all part of Sarah's life.

[Patia Eaton]

That is so sweet.

[Hannah Smith]

Isn't that great?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

That was a nice ending to the story. So that's the love rat.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow. Amazing. I love the term love rat.

[Hannah Smith]

I know.

[Patia Eaton]

You know, I don't think I knew this whole story, but I feel like at some point I reached out to someone with a similar story. And I wonder if it was Sean.

[Hannah Smith]

Hmm.

[Patia Eaton]

Because I reached out to him on Facebook.

[Hannah Smith]

Was he in Australia?

[Patia Eaton]

Facebook? Yeah, I think so. I'm gonna see if I reached out to him. But I did not know, like, the scope of it at all. Okay, well, I have a recommendation.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay, great.

[Patia Eaton]

It's not true crime. So this is a documentary from hbo, and it's called the Dark Wizard. And this is about the life of Dean Potter, who was a climber and BASE jumper. And it's a docu series about his life and what drove him to do these extreme climbs and jumps. And he. I'm not gonna say anything else about it. I don't wanna, like, give away the documentary. Cause I wasn't familiar with him at all. But I have watched, like, Free Solo and.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Love that type of stuff.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. And it's really just incredible. I mean, the things that these people are capable of doing, even just mentally. Obviously it's a huge physical feat to climb something like El Capitan, but just to think about the headspace that they have to be in. I thought it was really a great documentary and I recommend it.

[Hannah Smith]

Cool. What is it called again?

[Patia Eaton]

The Dark Wizard.

[Hannah Smith]

Dark Wizard. And that has nothing to do with his last name being Potter? Harry Potter.

[Patia Eaton]

You know what? I had never thought about that. But. No, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why I thought it was called the Dark Wizard.

[Hannah Smith]

Maybe because it is doing all of these wild things. I don't know. But it's interesting.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. It says, an unflinching portrait of Dean Potter, one of the world's most influential and controversial climbers. BASE jumpers and highline walkers. Oh, yeah. He was also doing the tightrope across canyons. No.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow. Okay. Yeah, that sounds right up my alley. I'll watch it.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, I would definitely recommend.

[Hannah Smith]

Cool.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. A little, like, postpartum watch list for you.

[Hannah Smith]

Getting ready.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. All right, thanks for listening. We'll be back next week.

[Hannah Smith]

Bye.

[Patia Eaton]

If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can follow us on Instagram Henife Podcast or blueskyenife Podcast.

[Hannah Smith]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith

[Patia Eaton]

and me, Pasha Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breyfogle and Alexis Amorosi.

[Hannah Smith]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.

[Patia Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Hannah Smith]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Patia Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

[Hannah Smith]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Daniel Danielle Kramer.

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