Rent-A-Hitman: Murder, Interrupted

Summary

Summary of "Rent-A-Hitman: Murder, Interrupted" Episode of The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

Introduction In the compelling episode titled "Rent-A-Hitman: Murder, Interrupted," hosts Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton delve into the unsettling reality behind a seemingly satirical website, rentahitman.com. Hosted by journalist-producers Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton, The Knife explores how this parody platform inadvertently became a conduit for serious criminal intentions, leading to multiple interventions that potentially saved lives.

Origin of Rent-a-Hitman The story begins with Bob Innes, the webmaster of rentahitman.com, who originally launched the site in 2005 as a parody. Intended as a humorous take on "point and click" solutions akin to Staples' Easy Button, the website was designed to test IT security vulnerabilities for clients. As Bob explains at [04:41], "Hit pertains to website hit, traffic network traffic analytics, how many page views your podcast gets for example."

The Onset of Disturbing Emails For years, the domain lingered unused, with Bob attempting to sell it unsuccessfully. However, in 2008, the influx of approximately 250 to 300 emails came as a shock. Initially dismissed as spam or pranks, some emails hinted at genuine intentions to hire hitmen. Bob recounts at [06:11], "There was even a female out of the UK who was looking for a relationship. She wanted a relationship with a hitman so that she could learn the trade."

The First Serious Case: Helen's Request The turning point occurred in 2010 when Bob received a particularly alarming email from a woman named Helen. She sought to have three family members in the UK killed due to an inheritance dispute. At [07:18], Bob states, "There was something about this email that sounded real, like this woman Helen might actually want her family members killed." Recognizing the severity, he reported her to authorities, leading to her extradition after 126 days.

Developing a System to Handle Threats Realizing the gravity of the situation, Bob transformed rentahitman.com into an operational tool for identifying and reporting potential threats. He implemented an intake form to capture essential details and IP addresses, ensuring that each submission was assessed meticulously. As Bob explains at [09:13], "There is a federal crime to hire someone to commit murder, even if it's never carried out."

Notable Cases

1. Jasmine Paez ([21:52] - [22:59]):

   • Jasmine, an 18-year-old from Florida, attempted to hire her own three-year-old child’s murder. Bob's intervention led to an investigation where authorities determined that Jasmine was under coercion from her boyfriend. Both were arrested, with Jasmine losing custody of her child.

2. Wendy Wein ([33:27] - [36:25]):

   • In July 2020, Wendy Wein from Michigan sought to have her ex-husband killed. After interacting through the website, a sting operation resulted in her arrest and conviction. Wendy had previously attempted to hire hitmen via the dark web but found no success until turning to Bob's site.

3. Josiah Garcia ([42:53] - [43:31]):

   • An individual from Tennessee, affiliated with the National Guard, applied to become a hitman under the alias "the Reaper." His application included a resume and photo. Upon further investigation, he was arrested for attempting to procure murder-for-hire services, leading to a five-year probation sentence.

Challenges with Law Enforcement Bob frequently encounters skepticism from authorities. Initially, his reports were met with disbelief, as he notes at [25:22], "I do get a fair amount of pushback. I've had some agencies basically laugh and say, ha, ha, you know, whatever." However, persistence and providing credible evidence eventually lead to authorities taking action, as seen in the cases mentioned.

The Emotional Toll on Bob Innes Handling such grave requests has taken a personal toll on Bob. He describes the emotional burden at [19:43], stating, "It's tough. I have a pretty good support group around me to keep me sane, but there's a lot of people out there that need help." The constant influx of distressing messages has hardened him, yet he remains committed to preventing possible tragedies.

Global Implications The reach of rentahitman.com extends globally. In one instance, Bob received hundreds of assassination requests from Indonesia after an online influencer promoted the site on the dark web. Despite facing bureaucratic hurdles, Bob personally approached the Indonesian consulate to report these threats, demonstrating his unwavering dedication to stopping potential crimes ([28:48] - [30:42]).

Future Plans: Creating a Nonprofit Acknowledging the unsustainable nature of managing these threats single-handedly, Bob envisions establishing a nonprofit organization. This entity would focus on sifting through submissions, educating the public on internet safety, and improving collaboration with law enforcement. At [37:17], Bob emphasizes, "I would love the nonprofit that I am aiming to create...somebody that can communicate better with law enforcement than I can."

Reflection and Ethical Considerations The episode raises profound ethical questions about mental health and the justice system. Many individuals reaching out to rentahitman.com exhibit signs of severe psychological distress, necessitating a nuanced approach that balances intervention with compassionate care. Hannah Smith reflects, "Issues because they're not understanding that this isn't real. And I don't know that that."

Conclusion "Rent-A-Hitman: Murder, Interrupted" sheds light on the unintended consequences of a parody website becoming a beacon for real-world criminal intent. Through Bob Innes' vigilant efforts, several lives have been potentially saved, highlighting the critical intersection between internet anonymity, mental health, and law enforcement. The episode underscores the importance of awareness and proactive measures in the digital age to prevent heinous crimes before they occur.

Notable Quotes

• Bob Innes [07:18]: "There is a federal crime to hire someone to commit murder, even if it's never carried out."

• Bob Innes [10:20]: "Wow. Yeah, it was a kind of an awakening experience. I mean, it was a $9.20 website. It just basically saved the lives of three people and with little to no effort on my part."

• Patia Eaton [19:43]: "It's tough... I have a pretty good support group around me to keep me sane, but there's a lot of people out there that need help."

Impact on Listeners This episode not only informs listeners about the unexpected realities of internet anonymity but also highlights the human element behind digital platforms. It prompts reflection on how simple actions online can have profound real-world implications, emphasizing the need for responsible usage and proactive intervention in preventing crime.

Transcript

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[Cindy Crawford]

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is adv.

[Bob Innes]

She provided a picture of a three year old that she wanted to have murdered. It was her own three year old.

[Patia Eaton]

Welcome to the Knife. I'm Patia Eaton.

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm Hannah Smith. This week we have an unusual story for you. We are talking with a webmaster named Bob Innes all about his website rentahitman.com and yes I am saying Hitman.

[Patia Eaton]

I actually came across this website a couple of years ago and reached out to Bob but never heard back. We recently got in touch and sat down for an interview with him and it was so much more wild than we expected.

[Cindy Crawford]

Let's get into the interview.

[Bob Innes]

Hey thanks for having me So I.

[Patia Eaton]

First reached out to you a couple of years ago. Didn't hear anything back.

[Bob Innes]

It's busy.

[Patia Eaton]

It's okay. It's not the first time this happened to me. I didn't take it personally. But I reached out because I came across a story about your website. Can you introduce yourself however you think we ought to introduce you or that you would like to be introduced?

[Bob Innes]

Sure. My name is Bob. I'm the webmaster of rentahitman.com, your point and click solution. It is a parody website. It's safe to go to.

[Hannah Smith]

Please Visit Bob registered rentahitman.com in 2005. It was a tech startup that focused on IT security that he and a couple of his buddies created after graduation. The hit in Hitman actually refers to website clicks.

[Bob Innes]

Hit pertains to website hit, traffic network traffic analytics, how many page views your podcast gets for example, or that kind of thing. We wanted to start a post graduation business that would test customers networks, Wi fi networks, home networks. We would test it for vulnerabilities. We would let them know what they need to do in order to tighten their security of their network. If you remember back in the 80s 90s, I guess Staples had an easy button, a little red easy button. Maybe they still do it. Used to be able to click it and your problem would be solved. Well, our little catchphrase was rent a Hitman. Your point and click solution with a little image of a speedy click mouse kind of a thing. And you know, that was the whole idea behind our business plan.

[Hannah Smith]

The Internet in 2005 was so different than it is today. Just one year before, in 2004, Facebook was launched for Harvard students and Google debuted a brand new app called Gmail. It was really this tech scramble to see who would create something that could last that would help define the Internet as we know it today. Rent a Hitman did not become the next Staples. It didn't do much of anything at all. Bob and his friends moved on with their lives, getting jobs in different cities. And Bob was left with this domain. And for years it just sat there doing nothing.

[Bob Innes]

Didn't really know what to do with it at that point. I tried to auction it off on several auction websites. Nobody wanted to buy it. A couple of years passes. This is right around 2008 and I decide to go in and check the inbox and I'm shocked. There's about 250 to 300 emails.

[Patia Eaton]

What kinds of emails were you getting?

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, so initially I was expecting to see people interested in the Domain name. But unfortunately that didn't happen. There were people inquiring about asset extraction. What countries do you operate in? There was even a female out of the UK who was looking for a relationship. She wanted a relationship with a hitman so that she could learn the trade.

[Patia Eaton]

So these are people looking for hitmen?

[Bob Innes]

They were looking for hitmen and people that do their dirty deeds.

[Patia Eaton]

As you're reading these emails, like, what's going through your mind?

[Bob Innes]

You know, I was not equipped at that point to kind of take in, comprehend their request. But as the years passed, you know, I joked about it with friends. Sure. You know, there's people out there that are so mad they're googling how to hire a hitman.

[Hannah Smith]

Bob didn't respond to any of the emails. It was strange. He thought that he was getting them at all. At the time, the website didn't have much on it except a notification that it was for sale. But somehow there still seemed to be people who believed rentahitman.com was run by an actual hitman, an assassin, a killer for hire. Were these real requests? Bob chalked it up to a few practical jokes, kids having a laugh on the Internet. But then in 2010, he got an email that sounded different, one that he could not ignore.

[Bob Innes]

A lady by the name of Helen sent an email to the website indicating she had three family members in the UK that she wanted murder. It was over a family inheritance. By the end of the day, she had written two full on long and rambling emails on what she wanted done, who the intended targets were, the addresses, her reason, where she was in Canada and the whole thing.

[Hannah Smith]

Bob did something he'd never done with prior emails. He decided to respond. There was something about this email that sounded real, like this woman Helen might actually want her family members killed. So he emailed her back posing as the man who could arrange a murder.

[Bob Innes]

And I had responded and asked her if she still required her services and wanted to be placed in touch with a field operative. And she responded yes.

[Patia Eaton]

And you responded to her that way because you were like, this lady's serious. I need to see, like how serious.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, there was definitely. She was providing way more information than I had ever anticipated. If I didn't respond to the email, somebody else may have gotten it and results are going to be different, probably. She provided so much information. I was on my iPhone, like iPhone One or whatever it was way back in the day, and I was corroborating and verifying addresses and the more I looked into it, I just knew she was Serious. I could just tell that she was in a spot, mentally that was not good and that these people were in danger.

[Cindy Crawford]

Who did she want killed?

[Bob Innes]

Aunt, uncle, and another family member.

[Patia Eaton]

All over an inheritance.

[Bob Innes]

All over a family inheritance.

[Hannah Smith]

Once Bob realized this murder for hire request was real, he felt the need to report it to authorities.

[Bob Innes]

There was an officer in Nevada at the time, where I grew up, and we had become friends over the years, and I had printed all this information out. I had about 20 pages of information and I brought it down to the police station. I gave him the stack of papers, told him, you need to look into this. I mean, this is very serious. He reached out to somebody that he knew in Canada who put them in contact with the Niagara Regional Police Services, and they ended up doing the rest. But it was very serious and she had fled the uk, ended up in Canada, lost her passport, had nowhere to go, and reached out to the website. And then when the authorities in Canada went to perform a welfare check on her, they obviously validated, verified the information. She had a warrant out of the UK so she was extradited after 126 days.

[Patia Eaton]

When you got news of Helen's arrest, like, how did that make you feel about the website and all of this playing out?

[Bob Innes]

Wow. Yeah, it was a kind of an awakening experience. I mean, it was a $9.20 website. It just basically saved the lives of three people and with little to no effort on my part.

[Hannah Smith]

It is a federal crime to hire someone to commit murder, even if it's never carried out. And if money is exchanged, the maximum penalty is a fine and up to 10 years in prison. For Bob, the idea that he helped stop a potential murder was sort of exhilarating. It made him think totally differently about rentahitman.com he no longer had hopes of selling the domain. Instead, he decided to build out a website.

[Bob Innes]

You know, it was getting organic traffic on its own. People were seeking it out. Obviously, I'm not here to capitalize or make money off the website. There is no advertising. These are visitors who are actively seeking out the website. Maybe they've heard about it through podcasts or whatever. Most of them haven't. And they're seeking a solution for an issue that they have. And there's web forms that people can utilize to fill out the who, what, when, where, and why in their own words. And the intake form can capture an IP address. There's warnings on the page that the site is not real.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, I want to, like, just for anyone who's not looking at the Website right now, it is loud and clear that this is not real. But it has saved lives and it has worked. You created this intake form where people really sort of, they out themselves as wanting to have someone killed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you build out the website after Helen's arrest and you continue hearing from people and even more so. Or how does that all go down?

[Bob Innes]

Yeah. So in 2010 with the Helen email, that's when I kind of took everything into consideration and thought, man, these people are coming to a website or they're trying to seek out a solution for obviously a very serious problem that are going through. Why not create like a honeypot, you might say. I mean, technically it's not a honeypot in the IT sense, but it attracts people that have nefarious things in mind.

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[Hannah Smith]

Bob describes his sense of hu as inspired by the Coen brothers. And this appreciation for absurdist dark comedy is on full [e-mail] if you actually read the website, it's full of jokes. Like his fake CEO Guido Fenelli, who seems to be inspired by the Italian mob. Or the photo of Al Capone on the Contact Us page with the caption, one of our best field operatives. Bob said he's not trying to trick people into thinking that this is a real website to hire real hitmen. And if you take just a few seconds to read it, it's very clear this website is a farce. And that can be confirmed with a quick Google search.

[Bob Innes]

This is registered with GoDaddy. It is 100% safe and secure. We have disclaimers on the page. You can Google the webpage and read Wikipedia articles and People magazine and Rolling Stone. I mean, there's podcasts, there's news stories. I mean, people, please do your homework. And then let's just say that you're one of the angry ones and you're searching for a solution. So you land on the website, you see Rent a Hitman, your point and click solution. And then there's a friendly note from the CEO, Guido Finale. Fictitious by all means. But anyway, it basically explains the website is fake. You know, thanks for checking in. And then, you know, we offer solutions. We have over 17,985 US based field operatives. That's the same number of police departments in the US in 2016, by the way. We have customer testimonials, discount packages.

[Patia Eaton]

Like, it is mind blowing, right, that someone would take this seriously.

[Bob Innes]

Cool. Cats and kittens discount, 10% off. Yeah. Customer testimonials. Let's see, we have a gallery of images.

[Cindy Crawford]

Can you read us one of the customer testimonials?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Bob Innes]

Laura from Arizona caught my husband cheating with the babysitter and our relationship was terminated after a free public relation consultation. I'm single again and looking to mingle. Thanks, Guido. And Rent a Hitman.

[Patia Eaton]

Amazing.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, but I can see how if you are, I don't know, you haven't done your research. Like you said, you go to this website, you are angry. You're not really reading it so much, you could potentially ignore all of this and click. I mean, it's it's hard to imagine, but like, yeah, I mean, you could click and just write in, this is who I want killed.

[Hannah Smith]

I guess.

[Cindy Crawford]

Is that happening?

[Bob Innes]

It is happening. It's happening more frequently than I can handle. Personally, I'm just a one man show. I've had to dumb the website down and turn it down so that it only receives a trickle of submissions. I mean, if I had funding, if I had people that work with me to create the nonprofit that I am aiming to create, then this would be a 24, 7 operation.

[Cindy Crawford]

Because you're getting so many submissions.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, every single day.

[Cindy Crawford]

Are you able to tell us like.

[Hannah Smith]

How many you're getting?

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, give me one second here. Let me pull up something. Just from April 1st, I've had 28 submissions on one web form.

[Hannah Smith]

We talked to Bob in mid April. That means in about two weeks he had 28 submissions to the site requesting the service of a hitman.

[Bob Innes]

You gotta say maybe two or three of those are worth looking into. I get a lot of spam. And they're not all murder for hire solicitations. Some of them are cries for help from kids being bullied at school or at home. There's some kind of an abuse situation and they're trying to seek some kind of a solution. You know, there's obviously people out there that are seeking assisted suicide. I've had emails as recent as last week. Hey, I don't care if this is a joke website. I'm looking for a way. And yeah, the best thing I can do is like respond in an email and send them links to resources that they'll probably never use. I mean, I'm not in a position to dispense therapy. I'm not a therapist.

[Patia Eaton]

How does it impact you to sort of get emails like this from people who are either just so hateful that they've lost all sense of morality or in such a hopeless situation that they don't know how to get out of that they might seek out something like this.

[Bob Innes]

Man, you know what? It is tough. I mean, I obviously have a pretty good support group around me to keep me sane, but there's a lot of people out there that need help. It's hard to open your inbox in the morning and see two or three more people that you wish you could help, but it's troubling. It's troubling. Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. What is the tipping point for you when you contact authorities? When it's someone who is crying out for help, whether it's child or someone else you know, is There like a sort of procedure you follow just even though you're a one man show with those.

[Bob Innes]

Well, there's a couple of different things I look at. Number one, is there a child involved? Is the solicitor or the target a child? If so, that's automatically reported for a welfare check. I don't care. I don't play around with those. If the threat or email comes from an academic domain edu a school, I don't mess around with those. Those go to the school resource officers. They can sort that out. There have been threats where a student has made threats directly against the superintendent of that school district because his own mother is a teacher in the district who is disciplined somehow and the student child wanted to seek some kind of retaliation. That didn't go well.

[Hannah Smith]

Bob found himself unexpectedly on the receiving end of these messages. Some of them were cries for help, some were empty threats by frustrated people with nowhere else to turn. But some were real from people who wanted someone in their lives dead and who were ready to take action on that plan. And now Bob, who isn't in law enforcement, is being told about these homicidal plans. And now he has to decide what, if any, responsibility he has in all of this. So there are cases that come through that he reports to law enforcement and sometimes they even make the News. Like in 2023 when a young mother reached out to him.

[Bob Innes]

Jasmine Paez. This is a woman out of Florida, 18 years old. She filled out a submission in her own words, provided her name, address. She used a fake name to fill it out, but that wasn't hard to get around. But she provided a picture of a three year old that she wanted to have murdered. It was her own three year old. She had said in her request she wanted to have the kid taken far, far away and possibly killed. She had later stated that she had tried to take the kid to the forest to get eaten by bears or drown. And I guess ultimately what came out of it was the investigators had determined after interviewing her and her boyfriend, her boyfriend had given her an ultimatum. Lose the kid or I'm done. And this was the result. Wow.

[Patia Eaton]

And so can you tell us a little bit about how her case played out after you notified authorities?

[Bob Innes]

Well, yeah, so notifying the authorities was really a bit difficult in this case. It took several, several phone calls for me getting through to the law enforcement agency in Miami before somebody would take this seriously. And during the course of trying to report it, hours had gone by and I'm getting more and more kind of irritated and I keep asking for A supervisor. And they keep transferring me around. And finally I get through to somebody, a supervisor in their dispatch center. And I explained the situation. I told them, hey, this isn't a prank. You know, I've been in People in Rolling Stone and I kind of referenced some news stories and the lady's like, okay, I get this, I get this. That's when they took it seriously, when she could verify that, hey, it's not just some random report. But once they got in there and investigated, I believe they made an arrest.

[Hannah Smith]

Within six hours, the Miami Dade Police Department opened an investigation after Bob sent in the tip. An investigator posed as a hitman for hire and texted with Jasmine Paez. She moved forward with an attempt to hire him, agreeing to pay $3,000 to have her 3 year old child killed. Jasmine Paez and her boyfriend, Gamaliel Soza were Both arrested in 2023. Jasmine has lost custody of her child and is charged with first degree solicitation of murder and unlawful use of a communication. Soza was charged with first degree murder, conspiracy and unlawful use of a communications device. This joke website had actually turned into a tip that potentially saved the life of a three year old. And Bob gets messages like this all the time from different people in different counties run by different law enforcement departments. And each time that he has a hitman request that seems real, he will then call the local pd, introduce himself and try to explain the situation.

[Patia Eaton]

This is for real. It's a satirical website or I don't even know if that's what you would call it, but it's this website, Rent a Hitman, that is a joke, but people do seek it out and please take this seriously. Do you get a lot of pushback of like, you know, this can't be real?

[Bob Innes]

I do. I get a fair amount of pushback. I've had some agencies basically laugh and say, ha, ha, you know, whatever. But once I send people a link to like a news story or kind of explain it a little bit further and kind of lay it all out, they tend to comprehend it a little bit better. You know, fortunately, there's U.S. department of justice press releases out there which reference the website. There's legitimate news services and stories and stuff that have covered it. It's getting easier to be received by agencies, but there's still challenges.

[Hannah Smith]

It makes sense that it would be difficult to communicate the situation to law enforcement. As much as Bob is trying to help and is helping, he's not in law enforcement. He's not a government official. He's not even an Incorporated, nonprofit, with guidelines or operating procedures. He's just a guy who happened to create a website that is hundreds of submissions from people who are planning or want to commit murder, and he's just trying to stop that from happening. Step one for Bob is to verify a submission is real and not a joke. He needs to know that the person who submitted it is a real person. It's not that hard to verify. Most people have an online footprint these days, but it can take a lot of time going down rabbit holes, looking for social media pages, searching names and addresses. If Bob can confirm that the person trying to hire a hitman is a real person, then it's on to step two, make contact.

[Bob Innes]

Then that's when I'll send a message back. Do you still require services? Would you like me to place you in contact with the field operative? If they respond back with, ha ha, I was just kidding. Have a nice day. Okay, that gets filed one way. If they say yes, and, you know, I really want this done urgently. Well, obviously they've kind of expedited their own request. And that's when it's basically drawn up. I'll do a statement, I'll reach out to an agency and basically hand it off and tell them they can either perform a welfare check on the intended target or they can work it as they see fit. And the ones that they arrest are the ones you hear about in the news.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wow. I mean, that's a lot of work. How many hours are you spending on this a week?

[Bob Innes]

Well, like I said, I've had to tone it down to maybe 20 hours a week now for my own personal sanity. But at the rate things are going, I could spend the entire week on this. I mean, literally, it would fill every hour of every day. It's just that crazy. There was a time when I was putting in a 40 hour workweek somewhere else, and I'd come home and do this, you know, for 40 or 60 hours. I'd be up all night. My wife wouldn't like it, but, you know, that's kind of sorry.

[Hannah Smith]

Bob says he gets murder for hire requests from literally all over the world. A while back, he received hundreds of emails from Indonesia after an Indonesian YouTuber posted about rentahitman.com on the dark web. And the lengths that Bob went to in order to report these requests is surprising.

[Bob Innes]

I had contacted the U.S. state Department. They're like, yeah, we don't care. I reached out to the US Embassy in Jakarta. Never heard back from that guy. So I decided to take this information to the Indonesian consulate in San Francisco. And I gave them the information. And the reason I did that was five of the requests were for assassination of their president, Joko Widodo. I don't know. Whatever came of the information that I gave, all I can do is just kind of clear it off my chest and, you know, at least you guys have the information.

[Cindy Crawford]

With the case of, like, these Indonesian requests, you know, you have been told by multiple governmental agencies, you know, the U.S. consulate that essentially they don't care, or maybe they care personally, but they're not going to put resources and time into this. And you hit multiple roadblocks, and then your response is to go in person to the Indonesian consulate in San Francisco. Why do you think you're so driven to do that when even these governmental agencies are like, we're gonna kind of wash our hands of this. What do you think it is that makes you want to follow through with this?

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, you know, I just don't want to see anybody get hurt. And, you know, if I'm the kind of last line of defense before those people end up getting hurt or whatever, damn right I'm going to do something. And, yeah, I ended up going to the consulate myself with my dad. I took my dad. That was the scary, scary moment. Man, I don't know what they're going to do to me in there. I mean, am I treading on some kind of international law, you know, that I don't know about or. I didn't know what the hell to expect? I really didn't. Yeah, if I could help everybody, I would.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Howie Mandel]

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[Patia Eaton]

Wendy Wine is the first story I came across that led me to your website. And so from, you know, my recollection, Wendy came across Rent a Hitman in July of 2020 and she wanted to have her ex husband killed.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

And you know, this is like all playing out on your dialogue with her on the website. You're letting authorities know they're in Michigan and she then offers to pay you. Am I remembering correctly that that's like the moment you're like, okay, this person's really serious.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah. Wendy is a very unique situation by the way, because yeah, when she, when she submitted the information, she submitted the information under an alias. It wasn't hard to see through her alias and figure out who she really was. I could tell this was a woman who had obviously a beef with her ex and wanted him taken out. She made it very clear after verifying the information and sending her an email, do you still require services? And that kind of thing. And after she responded, well, that's when it got passed off to Michigan authorities. And you know that the rest of that story.

[Patia Eaton]

But for those who don't know, can you tell us?

[Bob Innes]

But for those who don't know, she actually met up with undercover who played the part of a field operative or the hitman. Apparently there was some money exchanged.

[Hannah Smith]

It was July of 2020 when Wendy Wein found rentahitman.com According to reporting from CNN, Wendy wrote, quote, it's kind of weird that your company isn't on the deep or dark web. She then went on to offer to pay $5,000 to have her ex husband killed. The Michigan state police sent a trooper in plain clothes to meet with Wendy in Detroit. She reportedly provided her ex husband's home address and work schedule and handed him $200 as a down payment.

[Bob Innes]

She was ultimately arrested. She was ultimately convicted. She is serving her time right now. I hope she's doing well. Her ex husband is living in another state and has been since this whole thing started, and I wish him well. There's something about the Wendy thing that I think needs to be pointed out, and this was never brought out in trial. However, that's because she kind of took her deal, right?

[Patia Eaton]

Wendy pled guilty.

[Bob Innes]

Yes, she did. She had actually gone to the dark web. She had gone to a dark web website, and she had basically provided her name, or alias, rather, and the name of her target, Wendy Georgina Harris. Harris was her alias. Had gone to the dark web days before going to my website. So she had actually reached out to the dark web seeking services and didn't get the results there that she was.

[Cindy Crawford]

After potentially, or do you know, like actually getting in contact with someone who could render hitman services on the dark web?

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, she had tried and failed in.

[Cindy Crawford]

Some way and then went to your website.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah. I don't know what the result was of her from getting help on the dark web, But I only imagine that I had intervened before things could get to that stage.

[Hannah Smith]

In talking with Bob, what became clear to us is that he spends a lot of his time on this website following leads, verifying submissions, assessing if a threat is serious, and then trying to convince police departments or local sheriff's offices that his information is real and should be looked into. It's a lot for him to do after he signs off from his paid job. The idea that he would miss a tip and then maybe someone would be killed because of that. It's too much for Bob to bear. So he has spent sleepless nights fielding emails and following leads. He hopes to change that by creating a nonprofit. He'd love more help sifting through all the murder for hire requests, educating the public about Internet safety, and he'd like for someone to help him navigate the best way to report these tips to law enforcement.

[Bob Innes]

A retired FBI special agent, for example. I have somebody in mind that I would love for that role. And he's excited about it, too. You know, just somebody that can communicate better with law enforcement than I can. Somebody that maybe has the credentials to actually not just talk to a call taker, but actually get into somebody. Decision maker, investigator, you know, that kind of thing. What I would ultimately like to accomplish is with the creation of the nonprofit, obviously have a staff, some people that are good with open source intelligence and cyber investigations. I can't do it by myself. I'm unfunded. The biggest thing that anybody could do to help at this point in this mission, in my mission is help with funding. There was a case out of Las Cruces, New Mexico, involving a subject by the name of Lee Trujillo. He had filled out the submission form he wanted to take out his mother in law because she was interfering with his relationship. I had reported it to the Las Cruces Police Department. It fell through the cracks. Nothing happened for a number of weeks. I spoke to a sergeant in Las Cruces who said, oh yeah, it fell through the cracks. We had a homicide last week or a couple of days ago. We've been working on it. I'm like, that's your answer. So I didn't like that this guy's mother in law is still in jeopardy and y' all haven't worked this case.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow.

[Cindy Crawford]

I guess just my last question that I have is like, when you think back about creating this website and how it's impacted your life, what do you think of that? Are you glad that you made it? Like, what do you think about your position and how has this experience sort of affected how you interact and see the world?

[Bob Innes]

Seeing it full blown in my inbox every day, it really kind of. It kind of hardens me a little bit. I scrutinize things a lot more than probably the average joke. But I do know there's good people out there and I do know that not everybody is a nefarious, malicious pos and just some people make mistakes. Some people say or do things online that they probably will take back.

[Patia Eaton]

Is there ever this thought for you about kind of toeing the line where you're glad that the website has been reported on journalistically so that people take you seriously when you call and you have something to send. But also, maybe it's not as well known that it becomes no longer overkill. Yeah.

[Bob Innes]

I had initially thought that, you know, the more podcasts or the more traffic or the more news stories would hamper the analytics, the visitor. That's not the case. These people, it's busier than ever. I don't get it.

[Hannah Smith]

Bob wants everyone to know that he has a new website. This time he's focused on people trying to sell stolen catalytic converters. The website is webuycatconverters.com Pasha and I wrapped up the interview Stopped the recording. And then Bob mentioned something to us that had not come up in the interview. So we hit record a second time.

[Patia Eaton]

We're back. Hannah and I ended the interview, and then.

[Cindy Crawford]

Amateur mistake.

[Patia Eaton]

Amateur mistake. And then Bob brought up something, and we are hitting record again.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah. So we've covered a few things, but we haven't covered the individuals that are seeking employment through the website.

[Cindy Crawford]

As in aspiring hitman?

[Bob Innes]

As in aspiring hitman. Aspiring field operatives.

[Cindy Crawford]

Field operatives.

[Patia Eaton]

Do they send resumes?

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, upon request, yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

Tell us about some of these applications that you've gotten.

[Bob Innes]

So there's an individual out of Tennessee. This is an adjudicated case. His name is Josiah Garcia. His sentencing is, like, in a couple of weeks, by the way. But he applied to the website. He was in the Tennessee National Guard. He claimed his nickname was the Reaper for not missing any of the targets. And he had indicated that he had an expanding family and wanted to make money for his family. He had sent in a picture of himself, a headshot, his ID as requested, and a resume, at which point multiple email exchanges were conducted. He had indicated many times that he was ready to move forward and wanted an interview with our onboarding team. After thoroughly vetting all of his information, that's when I passed the information on to an agency in Tennessee, and they ultimately met with the Reaper, offered him a fictitious kill packet, an envelope with, like, $2,500 in it, and a target. He ended up taking the money and then immediately kind of regretted his decision and said he was trying to put the money back. But he was arrested. During his interview with the onboarding field agent, he had said that he had no problem taking ears and fingers as trophies and that kind of thing.

[Hannah Smith]

Yuck.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah, he was good to go.

[Patia Eaton]

I have never wanted to be a hit woman, but I would not send my picture. No way. I don't want anyone to know what I look like.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah. You would think in Hitman 101 that they would teach you not to leave any kind of trail.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Published on Justice.gov September 25, 2024, says Garcia pleaded guilty to using interstate commerce facilities in the commission of a murder for hire.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah. He agreed to carry out a contract killing for $5,000 and accepted $2,500 down.

[Cindy Crawford]

What are the people that are applying for this job? Is it all because they're in some sort of, like, desperate financial need, or are there other reasons why people are applying?

[Bob Innes]

Honestly, I don't get into that with them unless they voluntarily bring it up. And in Josiah's case, he had mentioned that he had a growing family and was just trying to, you know, earn money for his family. His intent is fine, but his means of carrying it out is pretty screwed up. I'm not a fan of that, but, yeah, do what you do to take care of your family. But he wasn't the only one. There's individuals around the country that have applied to become hitman, and they have filled out the information. I send them a little questionnaire just for further information, just to kind of find out what's in their head, what is their favorite tools of the trade, do they carry their tools with them by chance? Are they available to disappear if needed and that kind of thing. Some of the responses are pretty wild. There is a couple of ongoing cases right now around the country involving potential applicants, some of which are absolutely just. These people need to be off the streets. Like, yesterday. There is a case out of South Africa that is very interesting. It involves a South African police service officer who wants to be a hitman. Oh. And he wants to clean up his neighborhood down in Cape Town where he's at. Yeah. Try reporting that one.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Wow, that is so.

[Cindy Crawford]

So I don't know what you would do. You could do there.

[Patia Eaton]

No.

[Bob Innes]

Yeah. Anyway, if there's a will, there's a way people want a job.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow.

[Cindy Crawford]

Thank you so much, Bob. What an interview.

[Patia Eaton]

What an interview. Worth the wait?

[Cindy Crawford]

Yes, totally worth the wait.

[Hannah Smith]

You had been trying to get him.

[Cindy Crawford]

To interview for, like, over a year.

[Patia Eaton]

I honestly think it was multiple years because it was when we worked on our other show. And I thought, like, I don't even know that this is right for our show, but I just really want to interview this person. And he never got back to me. And then I. I actually think on the website at the time, it was saying I caught, like, a forum response that he wasn't doing interviews. And so I just kind of cataloged it.

[Cindy Crawford]

What was it like to send a request on the website?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, well, I was like, okay, if I write him, I need to be very clear, I'm not looking for a hitman. I get that this is like a parody. Okay. But I do want to talk to you about it. So I think I wrote like, five times in my initial outreach. Like, I'm just a podcast producer.

[Cindy Crawford]

To be clear. I don't want to have anyone killed.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. I don't want the F coming after me. But yeah, that interview was so different than any other interview we've ever done.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. It really was.

[Patia Eaton]

Just the way that it consumed his life.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. That Was really surprising that he said at one point he was going to his 40 hour a week job and then spending like 20 to 40 hours additionally working on these cases. You could tell that he really has, you know, he cares a lot. He gets very wrapped up and consumed with this sometimes.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

There's so many cases, really, that were mentioned in this episode, and there was just a couple that I wanted to follow up on quickly. Bob mentioned this case out of Las Cruces, New Mexico. This is from justice.gov A man was sentenced to the statutory maximum of 10 years in federal prison for trying to hire an undercover ATF agent to murder his girlfriend's mother for $200. This is the case that Bob was saying. He reported this and then followed up and was concerned because there had been no investigation or no follow up. And he kind of left it off in the interview as like, the mother is still at risk. So I just wanted to look it up and see if anything happened to her. But they ended up following through with it. And according to court records, between April 10, 2022 and May 11, 2022, Leif Heyman repeatedly solicited a hitman to murder his girlfriend's mother through the website rentahitman.com it's like $200.

[Patia Eaton]

You think that. I mean, there are so many things wrong with trying to hire a contract killer, especially through a website that's so obviously a joke. But the $200, I'm like, who's believing that?

[Cindy Crawford]

I don't know if that was like a down payment or what. I mean, yeah, that's really wild. I don't know if that was just like a number he threw out there.

[Patia Eaton]

It's enough to get him on that. Like, that shows some serious intent. And for me, listening to Bob tell that story and others of requests that have come through that he's then been able to get law enforcement involved was this every single time having to say, okay, here's the situation. I have this website, I mean, that is like to get somebody on the phone to sort of listen and take it seriously. Because no one wants to go to their colleagues in law enforcement and say, there's a website. Rent a hitman. You know, it's a lot of explaining.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. Which sort of feels like as it should be. You know, if you're just a random person calling in, like tips, like there should be some sort of skepticism or like looking into it.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

It was just. It was such an interesting interview. It made me think of so many things. But one of the things I Did think about like I kept thinking about that movie, Minority Report. Did you see that movie? Tom Cruise? Yeah, it's like a sci fi futuristic movie where he's a cop and he works for this organization that's figured out how to predict crimes. Right. They have like, I don't remember, like psychics or something they're working with. And so they get these visions of the crimes and then they send out people to arrest everyone before the crime happens and obviously things go awry. I think Tom Cruise ends up getting framed or something. And I remember it being a good movie. I have to rewatch it, consider that a wreck. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Minority Report coming in hot recommendation. But there's something about this whole predicting a crime that's gonna happen. Obviously it is a federal crime to try to solicit murder, but there's something a little tricky about that for me. One of the cases that I found when I was looking up Rent a Hitman is the case of Devin Falber. In 2019, he was a 21 year old man living in Virginia and he contacted rentahitman.com and requested to have his ex girlfriend and her parents both killed. And you know, when you first hear about that, on the surface it's so horrible, like how could anyone do this? But when I started to look more into it, it's a little more murky. Like it turns out that he has mental health issues. They didn't say what his diagnosis is, but they just mentioned that it's serious enough that he should be on medication. He was off of his medication and his mother said that had always had learning and behavioral issues. And he even is quoted to have said, I say stuff out of my mouth I don't mean to say. Like there's clearly some issues and some confusion. And when you think about rentahitman.com, someone like that going to the website, it's like, is that clear to that person that this is a fake website and is there like an understanding of that or not?

[Hannah Smith]

But he did move forward.

[Cindy Crawford]

He sent multiple requests to runtohitman.com, he wanted his ex girlfriend and her parents both killed. His ex girlfriend had a young child, a three year old child, and he requested for them not to harm the kid. And he had these sort of delusions that he would become the father to this kid. I mean clearly there's so much going on there, right? And there was a competency evaluation as part of the court proceedings and it was noted that his brain, this is what they Said his brain didn't develop normally, disrupting his development and language skills. But still, he was given a 10.

[Hannah Smith]

Year sentence for this.

[Cindy Crawford]

It just brings up so many bigger questions. How much of a threat was he? Maybe he was. You know, I mean, clearly he tried to have some people killed, but at the same time, like sending him to prison for 10 years, like, how is this helpful?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, I just have to wonder. It's like, that's totally separate from Bob and Rent a Hitman. We do have an issue about how we react to mental health issues in our justice system. And Bob is bringing this information but not making the decision. And so it's like, yeah, it is sad and it is, I think, a little murky. You know, it makes me think of the Tennyson Jacobson episode. This man is having a mental health crisis, but also a real threat to their lives.

[Cindy Crawford]

Doing something violent.

[Patia Eaton]

Doing something violent.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, it's tricky.

[Patia Eaton]

So much more came out of that interview than I expected. Especially when we turned the mic back on because we had never done that before, I think in all of our interviews. Turned it off and then like stopped recording and then like, wait a minute.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, here's something we need to talk about is people applying to be a hitman.

[Patia Eaton]

Never had that cross my mind. And thinking of, like thinking about the interview and questions and. Yeah, that's also just. I can't believe anyone looks at that website and thinks it's real. But also, you know, there's a lot of stuff out on the Internet. I mean, they're finding this website, but what if they'd found something else?

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah, I think the thing with, like people not looking at it and not realizing it's real, that's the part where I struggle with. I wonder how many of these cases are people with serious mental health issues. Issues because they're not understanding that this isn't real. And I don't know that. I think that there's clearly some people who are understanding completely that this is, you know, they're trying to hire someone to kill. Like Wendy Wein.

[Patia Eaton]

Wendy Wine.

[Cindy Crawford]

It's complicated. I did want to mention one thing. At the end, after we turned the mic back on, Bob talked about the case of Josiah Garcia, who had applied to be a hitman. And then there was a sting operation. He had entered into all these conversations about I would take noses and ears as prizes or something, took money from what he believed was like a hitman or a recruiter. A recruiter, and then tried to give the money back immediately, but still had incriminated himself. He was sentenced in late April 2025 to five years probation.

[Patia Eaton]

That seems right to me.

[Cindy Crawford]

Yeah. Well cool.

[Hannah Smith]

What an interesting episode.

[Cindy Crawford]

I'm so glad that we talked to Bob. So glad that you were persistent and finally tracked him down.

[Patia Eaton]

I can be a bit of a pe.

[Cindy Crawford]

We love it. Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Thanks for listening.

[Cindy Crawford]

See you next week.

[Patia Eaton]

If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is the knifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can follow us on Instagram at the Knife Podcast or bluesky at the Knife Podcast.

[Cindy Crawford]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith.

[Patia Eaton]

And me, Patia Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breifogel and and Alexis Amorosi.

[Cindy Crawford]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogel.

[Patia Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Cindy Crawford]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Patia Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac Executive produced by.

[Cindy Crawford]

Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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