The FBI is Here

Summary

The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

Episode: The FBI is Here
Date: July 30, 2026
Hosts: Hannah Smith & Patia Eaton
Guest: Zeke Gonzalez

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Overview

This episode of The Knife centers on the story of Zeke Gonzalez, a third-generation Texan who overcame adversity, addiction, incarceration, and reentry barriers. Through first-person reflection, the show explores how Zeke’s run-ins with law enforcement—culminating in a life sentence for conspiracy to distribute marijuana—shaped his path from drug dealer to community organizer. The episode examines not just Zeke's individual journey, but also the ripple effects of outdated drug laws, the challenges of post-incarceration life, and the broader social implications of criminal justice reform in the era of cannabis legalization.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Zeke’s Early Life and Influences

• Background: Born in Decatur, Texas on July 4th. Family originally from Laredo, TX, moved to Oklahoma City at age five. Extreme culture shock as less than 5% of the city’s population was Hispanic at the time.
  • “So coming to Oklahoma, first day of class is like, okay, where’s my people at? And they never showed up. It was culture shock. But I’m really good to fit in in my environment. Just had to adapt a little bit.” — Zeke (04:08)
• Family Influences: Admired his hardworking welder father, but was drawn to his uncles’ apparent freedom and wealth—later revealed to be from selling drugs.
  • “I gravitated more towards my uncles’ lifestyle… and that’s what kind of drove me into illegal activities.” — Zeke (04:42)
• Early Drug Involvement: Started selling weed in middle school to buy things like Air Jordan sneakers. Never smoked himself.
  • “…in middle school, I had a pair of shoes. So that kind of tells you what I was spending my money on.” — Zeke (06:25)

Dual Lives: Dealer and Family Man

• Maintained strong work ethic, opened an auto restoration shop, and supported his young family while continuing to sell marijuana for extra income—keeping it secret from his wife.
  • “I normalized it...I was living, I guess, a second life and she didn’t know anything about it.” — Zeke (07:57)
• Post-divorce, life spiraled: began using and selling cocaine, struggled with alcoholism, and experienced a worsening decline.
• Sought a fresh start by joining the Air Force as a jet engine mechanic—a role he embraced, seeking discipline and structure.

The First Raid and Parole (2010–2012)

• Arrest and Charges: Pulled over by police en route to work, arrested, and accused of being a kingpin in a drug organization based on distant associations—although Zeke had ceased illegal activity when he joined the military.
  • “They come out like, hey, you know, you’re going to sell us. Yeah, I can see your license. Yes, Here you go...They come out like, hey, you know, you’re going to sell us. Yeah, I can see your license. Yes, Here you go…” — Zeke (12:44)
  • “I wasn’t their main guy. You know what I’m saying? That wasn’t me, but to them that was, oh, we caught him.” — Zeke (17:59)
• Legal Ordeal: Held without bail. Charged with conspiracy to distribute a controlled dangerous substance (marijuana). There was no physical evidence or asset trail.
• Sentence: Received a ten-year deferred sentence (probation), which meant no prison time if he stayed out of trouble—a major relief.
  • “It felt good. It was a big relief for me.” — Zeke (22:48)

The FBI Returns – A Second Indictment (2014–2015)

• FBI and sheriffs confronted Zeke at work, linking him to a friend’s federal indictment due to his presence at a nightclub, despite lack of criminal activity.
  • “He had a federal indictment and you’re in his video...That’s what that was. With that being said, now I’m on somebody else’s federal indictment.” — Zeke (24:20)
• Accused of selling cocaine based on CCTV of a BMW allegedly matching one owned by Zeke’s girlfriend. He was out of town at the time, but this did not deter prosecutors.

Sentenced to Life in Prison

• Judge’s Judgment: Judge cited the parole violation as justification for maximum sentencing: life in prison.
  • “I recall him saying, I sentence you to life.” — Zeke (27:15)
• Unexpected Relief: Zeke famously described feeling an odd sense of calm upon hearing he’d been sentenced to life.
  • “I felt a weight off my shoulders. I felt a calmness...I understood that it was God telling me everything’s gonna be all right.” — Zeke (27:49, 29:24)
• In-Prison Transformation:
  • Immersed himself in positive activities: earned a GED, started clubs, translated church services, ran sports leagues, and even taught ESL.
  • Moved due to being deemed a “positive influence” (i.e., a “security threat” due to popularity among inmates), which is typically a label for those considered capable of sparking unrest.
  • Maintained resilience, optimism, and a focus on service—helping others, staying busy, and refusing to succumb to despair.
  • “I don’t miss prison. I miss the people. There’s a lot of good people in there that made mistakes.” — Zeke (39:17)

Release & Reentry: Legalization Changes Everything

• The Turning Point: Oklahoma legalized medical marijuana in 2018. A law student working on “Project Commutations” advocated for Zeke’s clemency.
  • “[She said] you don’t belong here. I said, well, thank you...So she gives me a friend of the probation pro board, okay, so they’re going to determine, you know, if I get a commutation or not…” — Zeke (42:58)
• Release: After 4.5 years incarcerated, his sentence was commuted to time served.
  • “She goes, Zeke, do you need $50 for a bus pass or can you have somebody come pick you up?…Zeke, you go home tomorrow. The governor signed your commutation, time served, immediate release.” — Zeke (44:13)
• Emotional Family Impact:
  • “A few years later, I asked my brother…she cried for a long time. We’re just not hurting ourselves. We’re hurting our families, our parents, mothers, fathers, our kids, brothers and sisters.” — Zeke (46:54)

Barriers to Reentry

• Practical & Financial Obstacles: No housing, job, transportation, or even the right to call an Uber. Despite his military service and education, Zeke faced rejection due to his record.
  • “My degrees didn’t matter. My background and me being a veteran… couldn’t even get on base because I’m a felon. I delivered tortillas, like, for the first six months.” — Zeke (47:05)
• Criminal Justice Debt: Released with $52,000 in fines and fees—an all-too-common but daunting burden for many after incarceration.
  • “Once I get released…it gave me another form that says fines and fees, $52,000. Okay. Like, dude, I didn’t get a job. That’s another barrier right there.” — Zeke (49:44)

Current Life & Advocacy

• Zeke is now a criminal justice community organizer for the nonprofit Oklahoma Appleseed, focusing on youth empowerment, gun violence prevention, and reentry mentorship.
  • Operates youth panels, a nonprofit boxing gym named after his cell number (“Senda 151”), and career development programs.
  • Returns to juvenile detention centers to teach life skills and self-awareness.
  • “We instill integrity, respect, discipline, and we go from there...it’s the psychological part of it. Overcoming adversities, being resilient, emotional intelligence.” — Zeke (50:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I'm the first person to graduate in my family. I'm the first person to go to college in my family. I'm the first person to go to the military in my family, but I'm not the first person to go to prison in my family.” — Zeke (02:04, recurring throughout)
• On Sentencing and Acceptance:
  • “I like to say I didn't understand what my freedom meant to me until my freedom was taken away from me.” — Zeke (27:49)
• On Prison Influence and Mindset:
  • “I was very productive. People would ask, when you have time. I have nothing but time.” — Zeke (30:10)
  • “That’s the thing. A lot of people like, man, you act like nothing. I like, no, it ain’t nothing. I get a lot inside prison: man, why are you always good spirits? Why are you so happy? Why are you always smiling? Dude, I’m alive.” — Zeke (38:37)
• On Reentry Barriers:
  • “My degrees didn’t matter. My background and me being a veteran…couldn’t even get on base because I’m a felon.” — Zeke (47:05)
  • “Once I get released…I got a form that says fines and fees, $52,000.” — Zeke (49:44)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:04] – Zeke’s introduction, background, and early influences
• [07:07] – Living a double life: shop owner and dealer
• [09:36] – Joining the military; efforts to turn his life around
• [11:23] – The traffic stop, first raid, difficult questioning
• [14:27] – Agents question Zeke about alleged criminal associates
• [16:30] – Eventually charged with conspiracy to distribute
• [22:30] – Deferred sentence granted, hope for a new future
• [23:43] – The FBI returns for a second indictment, linked via nightclub CCTV
• [27:15] – Sentenced to life; Zeke’s unusual sense of calm and acceptance
• [30:10] – Reflection on prison life: clubs, education, resilience
• [39:17] – “I don’t miss prison. I miss the people.”
• [42:58] – Oklahoma legalizes medical marijuana; commutation process begins
• [44:13] – Release story: “You go home tomorrow.”
• [47:05] – Reentry, employment struggles, and criminal justice debt
• [50:45] – Current life: nonprofit work and youth organizing
• [53:15] – Zeke’s reflection: no regrets, personal transformation

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Broader Issues & Reflections

• Ripple Effects of Outdated Drug Laws: In-depth discussion of the ongoing consequences—financial, familial, psychological—faced by individuals convicted under now-obsolete statutes.
• Cannabis Reform: The hosts share stats and context about the dramatic legal shift regarding marijuana and the slow, uneven pace of retroactive justice across the U.S.
  • “An ACLU report back in 2018 said that law enforcement made well over half a million marijuana arrests, which was more arrests than for all other violent crimes combined.” — Patia (55:25)
• Disproportionate Impact & Expungement: Challenges highlighted around reentry, barriers to employment, and the burden of criminal records.
• Hosts’ Reflections:
  • The hosts are particularly struck by Zeke’s response to his life sentence, his resilience, and how deeply the system—sometimes unfairly—shapes real lives.
  • “We’re wasting a lot of potential putting all these people in prison.” — Patia (68:10)
  • “People are complicated and we can change.” — Hannah (67:47)

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Closing Thoughts

Zeke Gonzalez’s story is a powerful example of the unintended and lingering harm wrought by the drug war era—particularly as attitudes and laws about marijuana use shift across the U.S. His transformation from inmate to community leader underscores both the resilience of individuals and the need for structural change to support fair reentry and fuller social integration. The episode also challenges listeners to consider the human cost of aggressive sentencing—and the ripple effects affecting not just those convicted, but their families and communities. The hosts end by reflecting on the necessity and moral imperative of expungement, record-clearing, and providing real second chances.

Contact:
Share your story or feedback: thenifexactlyrightmedia.com
Instagram: @theknifepodcast
Bluesky: @theknifepodcast.bsky.social

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This episode demonstrates the power of personal narrative in illuminating systemic injustices and the complicated, hopeful reality of redemption and change.

Transcript

[Patia Eaton]

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Hannah Smith]

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Patia Eaton]

The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of the speaker and do not necessarily represent the Knife or Exactly right media.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I'm the first person to graduate in my family. I'm the first person to go to college in my family. I'm the first person to go to the military in my family. But I'm not the first person to go to prison in my family.

[Patia Eaton]

Welcome to the Knife. I'm Patia Eaton.

[Hannah Smith]

I'm Hannah Smith. Today we're speaking with Zeke Gonzalez. In 2014, Zeke was working as a jet engine mechanic, looking forward to a possible promotion when the FBI showed up and wanted to speak with him.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke was on parole for a drug charge, selling weed, a life he'd left behind years ago. But the federal government wasn't convinced, and soon Zeke was back in court. This time, he was facing a life sentence.

[Hannah Smith]

Let's get into the interview. Hi, Zeke. Welcome to the Knife podcast.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Hey, thank you for having me.

[Patia Eaton]

We're really looking forward to speaking with you today.

[Hannah Smith]

We always like to start by asking you to just introduce yourself however you want to be introduced on the podcast.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Zeke Gonzalez. It's actually exequio, but they recognize me Z because of the spelling and can't nobody really pronounce it. So I was born in Decatur, Texas. It's west of Dallas and Fort Worth area. The thing behind it was we lived in Bridgeport, Texas. They didn't have a hospital there, so they had to drive out to Decatur, Texas to have me. And I was born on 4th of July.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke is a third generation Texan from a little border town called Laredo. Laredo, Texas, is on the west end of the Rio Grande plains, and over 90% of its population is Hispanic, like Zeke. But when Zeke was about five years old, his family moved to Oklahoma City, a place that looked and felt nothing like his hometown. In fact, According to a 1990 U.S. census, only about 5% of Oklahoma City's population was Hispanic. So it was a huge change.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So coming to Oklahoma, first day of class is like, okay, where's my people at? And they never showed up. It was culture shock. But I'm really good to fit in in my environment. Just had to adapt a little bit. My dad used to work from sun up to sundown. He was a welder. And, you know, my life was like, hey, I'm gonna be a welder. Cause any kid, you know, follow their father's footsteps.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke admired his father's work ethic, but also noticed that his uncles seemed to be making a lot more money and without having to work as many long hours doing a job that required so much physical labor.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So my dad would work from sun up to sundown, and my uncles were out here. They had new cars, boats, women, and, you know, that lifestyle. So I gravitated more towards my uncle's lifestyle, uncles, their lifestyle, and that's what kind of drove me into illegal activities. With that being said, is I've always had a good work ethic that helped me out a lot in regards into life itself. Just understanding what I had to do to not make ends meet, but to get where I wanted to go. I'm the first person to graduate in my family. I'm the first person to go to college in my family. I'm the first person to go to the military in my family, But I'm not the first person to go to prison in my family.

[Hannah Smith]

Are you able to say what it was that your uncles did as far as an income?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yeah, they used to sell drugs.

[Hannah Smith]

Weed, marijuana, Weed only or other drugs as well?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

No, weed only. Weed only.

[Hannah Smith]

And so then, at what point did you start interacting with weed?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

My relationship to weed was in middle school. I started selling it. Selling, like, nickel bags, dime bags, you know, to make a little money.

[Hannah Smith]

And who are you selling it to?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Students. My friends. Friends and students and things like that, yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

So it sounds like you were still going to school, doing well in school, at least enough to graduate, as you said, the first in your family, but also selling weed, Is that right?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes, yes.

[Hannah Smith]

And were you ever smoking it?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

No, I never did. I never liked it.

[Patia Eaton]

At that age. When you started selling to your peers at school to make a little bit of money, what were you using the money for? Like, when I was little, I wanted horses. Like what? What were you hoping to get with the money that you were making?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So the first pair of $100 shoes were the Air Jordan threes. Okay, so could nobody really afford those back then? But guess what? In middle school, I had a pair of shoes. So that kind of tells you what I was spending my money on.

[Patia Eaton]

This was the tail end of the 1980s. Air Jordans were more than just a fashion craze. They were a cultural phenomenon. Nintendo had released its home console. Mall culture was huge. And everybody wanted a Sony Walkman to take their cassette tapes on the go. And it all cost money, Something Zeke was pretty good at making. He became the first in his family to graduate from high school and attend college, and he was selling weed the entire time.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Fast forward a little bit. I got married in between all this, and I'll tell you, the lifestyle I used to live is that my wife didn't even know what I did. You know, I had a storefront and I had a shop restoring vehicles and things like that, But I still did it on the side.

[Patia Eaton]

Was it the bulk of your income? You said it was an auto shop.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Restoration.

[Patia Eaton]

Restoration, yeah.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

It was a big part of my income, yes.

[Patia Eaton]

So the selling weed, you were making less doing that than you were with your shop?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

No, I was making more money with that, But I wasn't using that money in towards anything. It was just money that I put up.

[Patia Eaton]

I see. Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

You've been selling weed for many years now, and it's easy to make money that way. But your wife, at this point, doesn't Know you're doing it. What was your feelings towards it internally at the time? Like, did you feel good about it? Did you feel kind of guilty that she didn't know? Was it something you even thought about?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

No, because I did it for so long. I normalized it. You know, I was living, I guess, a second life and she didn't know anything about it. And it seemed like I was comfortable with it because I normalized it. She really didn't ask a lot of questions. She just thought I was just doing good, great at my shop. So we had bought a house out in Edmond, Oklahoma. Back then, of course, a quarter million dollar home. You know, everybody's like, wow, custom built home. And there's people next door getting a home bill. And they came and asked my wife if she would be willing to clean their home. My horse like, no, this is our home. I'm not here cleaning this house. They're like, oh, we're so sorry, you know, but I seen these for white people. But you can just, you know, imagine, you know, the neighborhood we lived in and things like that.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke said that he and his wife grew apart and eventually got a divorce. During their marriage, Zeke had been able to manage his daily life as a father and husband with an auto repair shop with a system of selling weed, three months on, three months off. But after the divorce, he said he mentally spiraled. Suddenly, the life he'd been able to manage felt out of control.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Now that she's gone and things like that, I started getting into cocaine. So now I'm selling weed and cocaine. Okay, I was gonna say this. I'll be honest with it. I was an alcoholic and a womanizer. I just got out of control. In between all this, I was still going to college, still working. So then around 2006, seven, right after my divorce, I was like, hey, you know what? I want to do something for me. And that thing was go to the military.

[Hannah Smith]

Where was your head at with that decision?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I was going to change my life. Everything's going to get better, everything's going to change because I'm have discipline, I'm going to have structure. And I was trying to legitimize my life with the spiral and all that. I understood, hey, okay, this is not what I want. In other words, so like, okay, I need something better. I need a better life. I need to live better. I need a better lifestyle, healthy lifestyle.

[Patia Eaton]

By this point, Zeke was in his 20s and ready to turn things around. The divorce had been hard. He shared with Hannah and I that he'd Struggled with alcoholism, but went to rehab in 1999 and got sober for a time. But eventually, Zeke began drinking again, using drugs and also selling them. Years passed. He needed a fresh start, another push towards sobriety. So in 2007, Zeke joined the military.

[Hannah Smith]

What part of the military did you go into?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Air force. Went to the air force. I was a jet engine mechanic. I liked it. I liked the structure. I liked the discipline. I was a dorm chief there. I was the lead in my tech school and all that. So I was in the military. I went to basic, then went to tech school, came back to Oklahoma City, came to Oklahoma City and I was here. Based here at tinker air force base as a jet engine mechanic right here at home. So with that being said, is I started working there at tinker air force base. I was on the active side.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke excelled in his role. By 2010, he was working as a jet engine mechanic. He loved it, and he was good at it. It felt like after so many speed bumps and wrong turns, the road in front of him was looking really good. There was no more hiding things or having to look over his shoulder. But Zeke's past wasn't as easy to leave behind as he had hoped.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I remember that morning very well. I got up, of course, I'm in uniform. I got in my uniform. I was going to work. I had to be at work at 7, get up at 5, work out a little bit, then get ready. By 6 o', clock, I'm out on the road, you know, 5, 30ish. I'm sorry. So I remember pulling out of my driveway, and for some reason, really, nobody gets up early in my neighborhood. So I'm the first one out, and somebody's just kind of following me out. I'm like, okay, no big deal. Of course, I wasn't thinking anything. I get on the highway, on the expressway, going to tinker air force base, and a car pulls me over. Sheriff pulls me over. I'm like, okay. And this car that came out of my neighborhood, same car was right behind that car. I'm like, okay, this is kind of, you know, weird. I guess you can say strange. They come out like, hey, you know, you're going to sell us. Yeah, I can see your license. Yes, Here you go. He said, can you get out the car? Like, yeah, a truck has a truck. So I get out, they put me, you know, just put me behind the back of my truck and I put your hands on the tailgate. I like, I don't put my hands on tailgate unless I'm arrested or something. I don't know what's going on, because we have a warrant for your arrest, you know, to your Silas. You have the right to remain silent. You know, the whole spill, I'm like, well, okay. For what reasons? They will tell you here in a minute. You know, what have you and all that. So this is funny things like, where are you going? I was like, I mean, you, full uniform, going to work. You know, where am I going? I'm going to work. So that kind of tells you that they didn't know pretty much nothing about me, you know, just by. By, you know, hearsay and all that. So we go back to the house, and we had a pool, of course, a community pool there at the house. So they pull in the community pool parking lot. You're talking about 10 cars deep, you know, undercovers. And there's two sheriffs and a police officer, Edmond police officer. So I was like, okay, tell my. We're gonna go to your house. Anybody's in there? I say, yeah, my girlfriend's in there. Do you have any guns? Yes, I have a gun. You know, where's it at? I told him, you know, I forgot where it's at. In my nightstand or something like that. It's in a safety box. So it's. You know, we start going in. And I asked him, like, nicely. I like, hey, can y' all please make this respectable? Respect my neighbors. You respect my neighbor. You know what I'm saying? Like, okay. So they had lights going on. I'm like, why do we need lights? That's, you know, procedure, whatever. And they're like, well, can cut the lights out. I mean, there's no point in that. So we go up to my house. They knock on the door. My girlfriend at the time comes up to the door, and they tell her to step back. They told me to take me to the gun to where my gun was at. Took them out there to, you know, where it's at. They got the gun, what have you, and all that. Then they sat me down in the kitchen.

[Patia Eaton]

Agents from the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics were at Zeke's house, and they had questions. But the men that they were asking about weren't people Zeke knew all that closely. These two men were members of an organization that he just wasn't involved with. Zeke had heard that they'd been arrested at some point, but he really hadn't thought much about it. And then it clicked. These agents thought Zeke was a part of the same organization, and they seemed sure of it.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So what can you Tell me. I like, there's nothing I can tell you. You're like, you want to help yourself. I like, there's nothing to tell you. I'm gonna help myself. Well, I don't even know why I'm arrested. I only know what's going on. They're like, well, you're indicted because you're a part of this organization. This. First of all, I'm not part of this organization. Second of all, I don't know who these people are. I know them too. I don't know anybody else.

[Hannah Smith]

Were they trying to get you to inform on other people?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes. So that was their point. And also they went into who else do you know all? I will. I don't know anybody else. Okay. So they're going to take me to the county. Okay, let's go again. As very nicely. I was like, let's be respectful to our country. Can I take off this uniform? They're like, you know what? You can put on a T shirt. They followed me to my closet. I took out my uniform top and I just put on a T shirt and put on some tennis shoes. I'll give them that. They did, you know, respect that part.

[Patia Eaton]

While speaking with us about his time selling drugs, Zeke was an open book. He told us he'd mostly sold weed, but in his later years of dealing had also sold cocaine. For the most part, Zeke was a lone wolf. He wasn't part of a bigger network or hierarchy. He bought drugs from someone and he sold them to other people. But at one point after his divorce, Zeke had bought drugs from these two men that the agents were asking about. And it's Zeke's best guess that this is why they suspected him of being closely associated with the same organization.

[Hannah Smith]

So they knew who you were and they also knew that you were selling. So they get busted in 2007.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

In the meantime, you know, you joined the military. Are you still selling weed while you are working as a tech in the military?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

No, I seized all operations.

[Hannah Smith]

When you joined?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes. When I joined, it was like, okay, this. This is a clean start. This I'm gonna. That's it.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So with that organization, only the main guy and the right hand man knew who I was. Nobody else knew who I was. So when they got busted, they're like, hey, who's this guy X? Nobody knew who I was, you know, except them too.

[Hannah Smith]

Once you were booked in, what did you find out about your official charges? What were you charged with?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Conspiracy. Conspiracy to distribute cds. Marijuana weed.

[Hannah Smith]

What is cds?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Controlled dangerous substance.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay. When you were first arrested, how big of a deal did you think this was? Did you think, like, I'll maybe like, get out here soon or I just got to figure out, get a good lawyer and I'll sort this out, or were you, like, scared that this was a really big deal? Where was your head at?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I'm very optimistic, yet a realist. So I was hoping for the best and understanding what the repercussions, whatever that may look like, I was ready for that. Also.

[Patia Eaton]

What was that worst case scenario in your mind?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Honestly, I was thinking about 20 years maybe. That was. That was the worst case. Like, okay, because they all got 20 years.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke assumed that he would bail out and find an attorney, but he wasn't even offered bail. He had to find an attorney first just to make that happen. And there is no denying that Zeke had sold drugs for years, but it'd also been many years since he'd stopped. When he was arrested, it'd been so long that there was actually no physical evidence against him. Despite a search of his home and his vehicle, there was nothing. And he was never a part of this organization that the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics seemed so concerned about. So why was he being treated like a criminal mastermind and why now?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

That organization was a big organization. They really were. They thought they caught the main guy, which was me.

[Hannah Smith]

They thought you were the main guy.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I was the main guy because nobody knew about me. Nobody, just these two guys know about me. But I wasn't their. Their main guy in their organization. You know what I'm saying? That wasn't me, but to them that was, oh, we caught him. Now this is a guy. But they soon found out I didn't know nothing about them. About anybody. Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill? It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately, though, Mint's story is better. Every plan, $15 a month, even unlimited.

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That's it.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Happy ending.

[Hannah Smith]

Zero tears.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

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[Furious Series Narrator]

The Hulu Original Series Furious is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. From Liz Meriwether, the Emmy nominated executive producer of Dying for Sex and the Dropout, comes a gripping psychological thriller starring Emmy Rossum.

Furious follows Alice Black, a rookie FBI agent on the hunt for Katherine, a mysterious and calculating female serial killer.

It's Alice's first case on the job, and she's already bitten off more than she can chew.

While Alice believes justice is achieved through law enforcement, Catherine has lost all faith in the legal system.

She's taken it upon herself to terrorize the rich and powerful men of New York in her pursuit of vengeance.

As Alice and Catherine's twisted game of cat and mouse unfolds, the lines between good and evil and right and wrong

begin to blur with shocking crimes, tangled relationships, and secrets that change everything. And Alice discovers there's a thin line between hunter and prey.

Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now

streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

Goodbye. Goodbye.

[Patia Eaton]

For two years, Zeke fought the charges against him, and in the meantime, he continued to work. But the state took many of his belongings, including his cars, which put him in a difficult situation that made it impossible to keep his home. He had to move in with a family member, and still he continued trying to rebuild.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

It was very humbling. It was hard because I always lived this lifestyle. So now all of a sudden, it's like everything's gone. It's like starting all over again.

[Patia Eaton]

When they take those things, are they taking them as evidence? Like, how are they taking them?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

The state takes them and they Auction them off because they're bought with drug proceeds.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay.

[Patia Eaton]

They say we can take these because we know you bought them with money that you made selling weed.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

But wait, was this while your case was pending?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yeah, they don't wait.

[Patia Eaton]

Really?

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, so you haven't been convicted of anything?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I haven't been convicted, and the state already put a hold on my house, took my cars. I couldn't get my cars back. That same day that they can't pick me up the same day, took all my cars.

[Hannah Smith]

And what about your job? Were you able to still keep working at your job?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So what happened with my job was they put me on the reserve side. All right? That kind of tells you how good of a mechanic I was. They're like, hey, we don't want to get rid of you, but yeah, we'll put you over here. So I went ahead and got hired on as a civilian there at Tinker Air Force Base, also as a jet engine mechanic.

[Hannah Smith]

How did your attorney approach your case? And can you kind of walk us through what your case ended up looking like? Did you go to trial? Did you have a plea deal?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So I got a tenure deferred.

[Hannah Smith]

What does that mean, a tenure deferred?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

A tenure deferred is if I complete them 10 years, but probation, nothing, you know, nothing happens. Then that case just is wiped out. It's not on my record or anything like that.

[Patia Eaton]

How did it feel to get that tenure deferred?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

It felt good. It was a big relief for me.

[Patia Eaton]

This was in 2012. Zeke was looking at 10 years of parole, but that was a lot better than 20 years in prison. He checked in with his parole officer regularly and continued working. He had demonstrated through his career and education that he had left this old life, the one he was in all this trouble for, long behind.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I'm still at, you know, on the reserve side, Air Force reserve side. And I'm now going to school. I'm going to SNU so I can get a bachelor's degree. I have two associates, one in aerospace technology and one in psychology, but I don't have a bachelor's, so I got to get a bachelor's so I can become a supervisor there at Tinker Air Force Base because I was recommended by the wing commander. This is all within two years.

[Patia Eaton]

In 2014, Zeke was at work when the FBI showed up and wanted to speak with him.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Security forces came and said, hey, you know, we need to go to. I forgot. I think I have an office there. So they told me, let's go to. We need to take you to the office. I'm like, okay, yeah, you know, big deal. So I go over there and FBI is there. They're on base. It's on base on Tika Air Force Base.

[Patia Eaton]

The FBI is there to ask Zeke about one man in particular. And Zeke tells them, yes, he knows this person. They were childhood friends, and they'd remained friends as adults. This person owned a nightclub. And occasionally Zeke would stop by and hang out with him and his friends. But it turns out that this friend was in big trouble with the federal government.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

He had a federal indictment on him, and you're in his video. So he had a club and everything on Northeast 23rd. Okay. So they would see me in the video going to his place. With that being said is of course I give vip. So he had concerts and things like that. I just come into the back door, VIP service, and I'm living it up. So that's what that was. With that being said, now I'm on somebody else's federal indictment.

[Hannah Smith]

How was your name listed in the indictment? Like as a co defendant or just like an associate? They just said you were a known associate. You had been seen coming and going from the club and that was it.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay, and then what happens from there?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

That's that they come and they question me and all that? Actually, I let them go through my phone. I said, here goes my phone. Here go. You know what I'm saying? My conversations with him, whatever, because I don't erase my messages. They're on there. He went through my phone, whatever. So, okay, they're like, all right, go back to work.

[Patia Eaton]

Four days later, Zeke was once again called into the office. But this time he was excited about it. There was a supervisor position opening up, and Zeke thought maybe that's what this was about. He'd been doing great work, and he knew that they were thinking about it.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So they called me upstairs. You know, I'm like, promotion. You know, okay, this is cool. You know, all right, let's do this. You know, raise something. I'll go up there. There's some gentlemen in there. And I walk in and he opens the door for me and like, okay, okay. How you doing? How you doing? You know, hey, so you wanted to see me? He goes, yes. And the guy says, you know, he's a sheriff. He goes, you know, he wasn't dressed as a sheriff, of course, but the sheriff, he goes, you're executing silence? Yes, I am. He goes, can you show me some id? Like, well, yeah, sure. Showed us some id. He goes, okay. For your wrist.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke was being accused of selling cocaine to the man that the FBI had come in to ask him about, the one that Zeke told them he'd known since high school. This charge had nothing to do with his friend's federal case. But since Zeke was on parole, a 10 year deferment from his sentence, the district attorney got involved, which meant Zeke was being accused of selling drugs while on parole. The quote, smoking gun was CCTV video of a person in a BMW pulling up to the back of this nightclub that Zeke said he had visited. And this person in this BMW engages in a drug deal. The driver cannot be seen in the video, but at the time that the video was recorded, Zeke's girlfriend also drove a BMW. It was not the same model, but that didn't seem to matter. It also didn't seem to matter that Zeke was out of town for work on the day that the video was recorded. Once again, there was no concrete evidence in the case against him, just another person's testimony. But seemingly that's all it took.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

The judge goes, hey, you know, I told you I didn't want to see my courtroom again. You know, I told you that first time I gave you a great opportunity, you know, and you want just, you know, laughing my face. So I'm going to give you the max sentence. And I recall him saying, I sentenced you to life.

[Patia Eaton]

So they're like, okay, we gave you this chance and now we're going to bring you back. And that's why we're giving you life.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes. 600, my tenure deferred due to the federal indictment.

[Hannah Smith]

What did it feel like sitting in that court and hearing, I sentence you to life?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I felt a weight off my shoulders. I felt a calmness. I remember it like yesterday. I just felt like, okay, you know, I don't know how to explain that. And people are like, z, P, Jesus got sent us to life. I remember I turned around and I smiled at my mom, just reassuring her I'm okay. Like, yeah, okay, you know, and they're all crying. They're all back there crying. And I'm like, I don't know why. I feel relieved. I like to say I didn't understand what my freedom meant to me until my freedom was taken away from me. And I didn't understand that at that point. I understood, hey, okay, this is what I did. Okay? Now this is what I'm gonna do. And I'm a man. I'm gonna take responsibility for what I did.

[Hannah Smith]

I have to kind of ask you because patient and I are Always thinking when we're doing these interviews, we have to think like, what will people think when they hear them? And that's such an unusual response. I've never heard anyone say that. We've interviewed a lot of people and people that have been sentenced to very long sentences, and no one's ever said to me that they felt a sense of calm or peace or relief upon hearing that they're going to be sentenced to prison for life. So in some ways someone could hear this and say, well, maybe you were guilty of this. Maybe you were leading this, like, huge drug operation and you finally got caught and you felt relief. It doesn't sound like that's the case, but it's just such an unusual response. I think it's hard to understand. Maybe you can kind of try to explain it a little bit more of why you felt that way or why you think, looking back, maybe you didn't understand it at the time, but why do you think you felt relieved?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

The only explanation I have on that is that now I understood that it was God telling me everything's gonna be all right. I've been living this life which I thought was so glamorous and great, and all this money and cars and women and boats and you name it, I had it. And it's now. It's like, wow, now this reality. And I think that's the calmness that came to me, like, hey, this is reality. This is life. Yeah, I think that's it. The reality of life finally settled in and said, hey, okay, enough. I accepted it. That's what I think. There was an acceptance there. Like, hey, okay, this is it.

[Hannah Smith]

Interesting. Okay, and so then you're given this huge sentence of life. How are you spending your time in prison?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So I'll walk you through my first camp that I went to. My first camp, my first prison. At my first camp, I started going to college. I was the president of the Hispanic Club there, the Hispanic Society there. I was the sports director there for the inmates. I started all Spanish speaking Bible study, not just in pods, but actual classroom setting. I worked for OCI for True Energy as energy broker. So I was very productive. People would have when you have time. Like, that's why we have nothing but time. So when I have the time to do all this. So I did all that. So in my first camp, I was shipped out of my first camp because I was a security threat. You believe that I had too much influence on my people. With that being said, it was a positive influence, but it was seen as a negative Thing, because I could have a takeover anytime I wanted to.

[Hannah Smith]

And they specifically said to you, like, you have too much influence. Like, people like you too much. And this could be dangerous.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So what happened was I was in school. I was at the schoolhouse. I wasn't actually taking a class. It sounds, you know, through zoom and everything like that. Then we call them the principal, you know, which is actually the guy that runs the school. He comes in, he goes, zeke, I need to talk to you. He pulls me out, he goes, I just got a letter here. I got a form here that you're saying, you know, that you're getting shipped because you're a security threat. Like, what do you mean? You're like, yeah. He's like, it's like, I understand these things. You have too much influence on this yard. I'm like, okay, so, like, what does that mean? He goes, that. It means that you can, you know, easily overturn this yard if you like to. I'm like, I'm not about that. I'm here. You see me. I'm here every other day, you know, going to school and trying to, you know, better myself. He goes, I understand that. So he called up to the warden and tried to talk to the warden and say, hey, leave him here. I mean, there's no reason for the. You know. But of course, that didn't happen, and I got shipped out. So now I'm to my second yard, which was at North Fork in Sayer, Oklahoma. That yard was like. It had just reopened. It was actually a private yard. California people were coming out here for their. Their fit people were out here. And then they closed it down. They reopened it, and they started housing. So in other words, they're throwing all the people out of all the other prisons. Like, remember, I was a security threat. So they throwing. Start throwing people, the bad people. They're like, if I didn't want somebody in my yard, I was going to send them to North Fort, you know, so they started throwing everybody there. So when I first arrived there, there wasn't an order. When I mean order there was. You know, everybody was fighting. Everybody's doing whatever they wanted to do and things like that.

[Hannah Smith]

That sounds scary.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

It was. I'm not going to sit here and tell you it wasn't. It was scary. It was kind of like, hey, okay, you know, now what are you going to do about it? That's the whole thing about it, you know, I'm always kind of like, hey, look for opportunities. Understanding it.

[Patia Eaton]

It's an unusual take, but in some ways, Zeke Thrived in prison. He used his time while incarcerated to focus on community, engage. Being moved to this new prison was a setback, but Zeke approached it the same way he had before, through relationship building and positive activities like social clubs, sports, and classes. And he made a positive impact here, too, encouraging his fellow inmates not to engage in violence and to de escalate tense situations.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I was actually translating church services from English to Spanish. I started a Bible study program there also. I was tutoring people to get their ged, helping people with their paperwork, you know, translating paperwork to people. I started an ESL program in there where they gave me my own classroom. So I had two classes, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. So, I mean, I was very productive in there. No, no matter what it was, I was always productive.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you were trying to have a positive impact, even with this, like, indefinite amount of time ahead of you. But what did it feel like? I mean, you're a father. What did it feel like to have your kids growing up while you're doing this?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

My middle son, Gabby, he plays for ku, University of Kansas. He was a kicker. And I never got to see him play on tv, of course, but I never did get to see him play, you know, and he graduated before I got out. You know, I did go to his graduation, though. So there's things like that. I see my kids growing, you know, and I understood that, you know, you

[Patia Eaton]

had this sort of sense of relief almost, or you did when the judge sentenced you to life. But as time went on and your, you know, life outside of prison, your children, they're growing up and you're not able to be as present as I'm sure you would have liked to have been. Did the weight of the life sentence ever start to feel, you know, long?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

No. God kind of knew what he was doing. He put me through all these things, through the military, through my addictions, and, you know, through rehab and all that, to understand what this prison was like. So I took it one day at a time. I didn't think too far ahead. I just took it one day at a time. Hey, let's do this. And you got to understand, in prison, they give you a piece of paper every month, they give you a piece of paper. How many days you burn? And days earned for me was zero. So people would get 47 days, 50 something days a month. You know, that was good behavior and all that. And mine was zero. With that being said, I think that was like, okay. It was like, hey, why y' all Getting me this, you killing the tree to tell me that. Something I already know. You know, let's. Let's not do that.

[Hannah Smith]

They were giving you zero meaning, like you're never getting out of here. You're not. You're not even going to acknowledge the good work you're doing.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Exactly. Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

I think that's such an amazing perspective. I think that some of the questions we ask about trying to dig deeper into how you were feeling is to try to make sure to portray to people, because I think I understand what you're saying and that you had to live in the moment in the present day and do your best, and that was what. The headspace that you were in. Without acknowledging the difficulties, I think we risk portraying to people that it wasn't that hard. It wasn't that big of a deal. You didn't care. You were in prison. You didn't even want to get out. You know, I don't know that that's really what you're saying, but I think that sometimes being able to talk about there were these really hard things I wasn't there for my kids shows the difficulty and is honest about the difficulty of being in prison as well, because I imagine that you would have preferred to be out of prison.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

No. Yeah, of course. I'm not saying it was easy, but just had a. Had my mindset, you know, I have a mind. I have. I'm very. Like I said, I'm very, very, very, very, very optimistic. I understand my. Who I am, what I am, what I'm about and what I'm doing. I can lay my head down and just like, hey, okay, you know what I'm saying? This is it. Life's over. No, it's a blessing to wake up. Somebody didn't wake up this morning, you know what I'm saying? I woke up. Did I see somebody dying there? Yes. Does you see people get killed in there? Yes. Did I see two of my friends commit suicide in a. Yes, I did see all that. I did. You know what I'm saying? Did I not witness, but did I understand that people was getting raped in there? Yes, I did. You know, I knew all this stuff. I'm not saying I was dumb to the fact, but I was not buying into that. That wasn't me. And honestly, sometimes I do three days. When I say three days is we worked out three times a day. I'm talking about 1500 push ups, 200 sit ups, 200 burpees. And those are the kind of things that kept me busy. And I think that's what kept myself busy. So I wouldn't have that downtime to sit there and kind of, oh, dwell on what's really going on. The reality of do I miss my kids? Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Do I want to be there? Yes. I want to see my son play. Yes. You know what I'm saying? I want to be in my son's birthday. Yes. You know, my son's. They're great kids. Like I said, I broke that cycle. I had two daughters. Did I want to be there? Yes. You know, understanding their heartbreak, you know, you know, things like that that you understand and know. But I understood my well being also that what I needed to do for me to understand. Hey, you can't be there. Okay, let's understand that. Let's move on. You know, that's the thing to accept us part nice to the serenity to pray a lot. God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference. And that's the thing. A lot of people like, man, you act like nothing. I like, no, it ain't nothing. I get a lot inside their prison. Like, man, why are you always good spirits? Why are you always so happy? Why are you always smiling? Dude, I'm alive. What do you mean I'm alive. I don't matter where I'm at.

[Hannah Smith]

People would ask you that in prison, even in prison, be like, why are you in such a good mood?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yeah. I'm like, dude, we're alive. There's something that I always understand that no matter what, every day is a blessing.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I appreciate you explaining that. And that also, like, it makes sense that people would gravitate towards you in prison because I imagine that's not how a lot of people feel when they're serving time and they're incarcerated. And looking at these long sentences, I think it would be very easy to kind of give up or feel overwhelmed or feel like there's nothing to live for. So I imagine probably having that attitude in there. People gravitated toward that.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yeah. You know, I don't miss prison. I miss the people. There's a lot of good people in there that made mistakes.

[Dr. Doug Lucas]

Bite into a stacked sandwich made with herobread or a fully loaded bagel, and the only thing you'll think is delicious, you won't think it's up to 19 grams of protein, but it is. You wouldn't believe it has 11 to 32 grams of fiber, but it does. Herobread makes loaves, buns, tortillas, bagels and noodles patterns packed with taste but without all the net carbs, we're talking 0 to 5 grams net carbs per serving. With Herobread there are no compromises, just flavor. There's none of the stiff baked goods you expect from better for you brands. There's just the soft fluffy bread you crave, plus small batch drops of indulgent favorites like the popular 2 gram net carb Hero croissant and the 3 gram net carb Hero pain au chocolat. And right now Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use Code IHEART at checkout. That's Code iheartra Co. All figures per serving of herobred. See nutrition facts on Hero Co.

[Furious Series Narrator]

The Hulu Original Series Furious is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. From Liz Meriwether, the Emmy nominated executive producer of Dying for Sex and the Dropout comes a gripping psychological thriller starring Emmy Rossum.

Furious follows Alice Black, a rookie FBI agent, on the hunt for Katherine, a mysterious and calculating female serial killer.

It's Alice's first case on the job and she's already bitten off more than she can chew.

While Alice believes justice is achieved through law enforcement, Catherine has lost all faith in the legal system.

She's taken it upon herself to terrorize the rich and powerful men of New York in her pursuit of vengeance.

As Alice and Catherine's twisted game of cat and mouse unfolds, the lines between good and evil and right and wrong begin to blur.

With shocking crimes, tangled relationships, and secrets that change everything, Alice discovers there's a thin line between hunter and prey.

Watch the Hulu Original series Furious, now

streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers Terms apply.

[Hannah Smith]

Goodbye Goodbye.

[Ashley Iconetti]

This is Ashley Iconetti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast. Ben. I've been reflecting a lot lately on how many big life moments our listeners have experienced with us.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

[Ashley Iconetti]

They've watched us go from dating shows to engagements, weddings, babies, buying homes. Every stage comes with new decisions.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

The milestones are the fun part, but the planning is where things get real.

[Ashley Iconetti]

That's why Klarna stands out. Klarna gives people smarter tools to help manage everyday money with flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically everything in one place and support that makes everyday decisions feel less overwhelming.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Since life moves so fast, the right tools can help you feel more confident. Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more. California resident loans made her arrange pursuant to a California finance law license and MLS number 1353190 Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points.

[Kyle McLaughlin]

Limitations.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke was making the best of his time in prison and he hoped to get his sentence reduced. He had two attorneys and a pretty good case. He was a first time offender and his sentence was particularly harsh for the crime. He was convicted of conspiracy to distribute weed. But By June of 2018, medical marijuana was legalized in Oklahoma. Zeke was in prison for selling something that was now legal in the state. Around that time, a law student found his case and asked to meet him.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So she came out, this is about this 2018, about three months, about October. So she comes out and we talk and I tell her my story. She goes, zeke, you don't belong here. I said, well, thank you, like I want to help you. I said, well, let's do it. So she gives me a friend of the probation pro board, okay, so they're going to determine, you know, if I get a commutation or not, a sense reduction. Okay. So parole Investigators suggested 20, 25 years. Okay, so I'm like, cool, everybody. Like, what do you mean cool? Like, like, dude, I may have missed

[Patia Eaton]

this, but how long had you been in at that point?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Four and a half years. Okay, so with that being said, you like, you just said, I like, man, 20 years. Think about it. Third of my time, you know, nonviolent, about seven years. 30. Got four and a half, three more years, I'm out.

[Hannah Smith]

Just so I understand, you're thinking 20 years, I could probably be up for parole in like a seven years. Out of a 20 year sentence. I've already served four and a half years.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

When you're looking at a life in prison, you're like, okay, that's actually like pretty good to me.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I'm like, that's looking pretty very promising. Yeah, versus a life sentence. So now it's up to the governor of Oklahoma to give me 20, 25 years this October, November, December, four days before Christmas. They say, hey, the unit manager wants to see you. I said, okay. She's on the north side of the pod. I'll go over there. She's sitting by the CO and she tells the CEO, hey Mark, I'm here. He's going upstairs with me into my room, office. I'm following her up the stairs into her office. She unlocks it. I can still hear her keys, you know, dangling on there and open them up the door before she walks in. And she has an L shaped desk and she Walks behind her desk and she goes, zeke, do you need 50 for a bus pass or can you have somebody come pick you up? I'm like, Ms. Mary, I don't understand what you're saying. She goes, zeke, do you need 50 for a bus pass or can you have somebody come pick you up four days before Christmas 2018? And I like, Ms. Mary, I don't understand what you're saying. She goes, seek you go home tomorrow. The governor, Oklahoma signed your commentation, time served, immediate release. I keep that dear to me because it keeps me grounded. I woke up that morning with the life sentence hanging over my head to, you're going home tomorrow.

[Patia Eaton]

In 2016, the laws in Oklahoma changed, moving many drug possession offenses from felonies to misdemeanors. But the change wasn't retroactive. Then in 2018, Project Commutations was launched, an advocacy group for Oklahomans serving excessive sentences. In 2018, the group successfully petitioned for the commutation of 29 drug and low level offenses sentences. Zeke was one of those people who benefited from this movement and his sentence was commuted as time served and he was allowed to go home.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I called my mom. First thing came out of my mouth like, hey, mom, can you come pick me up tomorrow? And she goes, she like, what are you talking about? She never calls by my government name unless I'm in trouble. So I'm like, the governor of Oklahoma signed my commutation, mom, time served. I get to go home tomorrow. A few years later, I asked my brother, I was like, man, what did mom do when she hung up the phone? And it breaks my heart. She cried for a long time. And we don't understand that. We're just not hurting ourselves. We're hurting our families, our parents, mothers, fathers, our kids, brothers and sisters. I remember getting in the car and my little brother said, you're not going to look back one more last time? I like, no, that chapter's closed.

[Patia Eaton]

Zeke had no interest in looking back. But as ready as he was to leave, to once again start rebuilding his life, his re entry into society came with many challenges.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

You don't have a job, you don't have a home, you have a car. You can't call Uber. You ain't got no money, you ain't got nothing. You walk out those doors, you have no money, no car, no home, you know, no phone. I had a great support system, my family, all together. But you gotta understand, I never had a plan ready for me to get released from prison from one day to the next. So I'll Be honest. I slept on my mom's floor about for two weeks, three weeks. And I did have a little bit of money put up. And I want to go buy me a car. But not a lot of people ain't fortunate like that. And, you know, I got an aviation background. Give me a job anywhere, they wouldn't hire me. I'm a felon. I think that was the hardest because you spend your whole damn life working towards something or, I mean, at that time, you know, and it's like, hey, none of this matters no more. My degrees didn't matter. My background and me being a veteran, you know what I'm saying? A jet engine mechanic and getting all these certifications, and me working there as a civilian, I can't even get on base because I'm a felon. And that was a big reality check for me. I delivered tortillas, like, for the first six months. That's the only job I had. And it was through my aunt that got me that job. It was a driving job. And I'll just drive out up north, you know, up to Kansas and north Oklahoma. And, you know, I like that job because I meet new people every day. I got up crack of dawn and I go to work. So it is difficult. It is hard. Reentry is hard. Not only just, you know, physically out here in the world and society, getting acclimated again is just the psychological part of it. I mean, you normalize so many things in there. So understanding, hey, what I needed to do. I always made options for myself, opportunities for myself. And thank God that AER did hire me as an aircraft technician. And my relationship with my kids, I didn't know how to go about it, you know, because you missed so many years. And it's like, hey, can I hug you? Can I? You know, my kid was like, 16 now, but I love my kids. They were like, hey, love your dad.

[Super Troopers 3 Advertiser]

Love you.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

You know what I'm saying? Love your son, Love your dad.

[Patia Eaton]

After his release, Zeke learned that he owed the prison money. He was given a notice that he had to pay fines and fees. And there are many prisoners who find themselves in criminal justice debt once they're released. This could be for a variety of reasons, anything from court fees to fines imposed by a judge, or even room and board charges from their time in prison. Some states have daily or monthly fees associated just with being on parole, or public defender fees, or being charged for the use of an electronic monitoring system like an ankle monitor.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Once I get released, I got to turn myself into the. I got to go to the county, to the courthouse. And it gave me another form that says fines and fees, $52,000. Okay. Like, dude, I didn't get a job. That's another barrier right there. It's like, okay, among other things, I couldn't get a job. I still gotta go get my license, my birth certificate. I gotta get all these things and you know, start life all over again pretty much.

[Hannah Smith]

Is that like the standard amount that people are facing or do you see amounts all over the place?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

There are different amounts. Different 20, 10, 15, 5,000. You know, there's different depending on the cases.

[Patia Eaton]

Today Zeke works as the criminal justice community organizer for Oklahoma Appleseed. The work he does in his community is aimed at supporting youth, reducing crime and providing educational and mentorship services. One of the things he does is help formerly incarcerated people with the often overwhelming criminal justice debt they carry as they try to start their lives over.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I got different programs that I do. One is youth voices for Change and it's a youth led panel and they tell us about what's going on in the community, what challenges are they facing. Our first one was youth gun violence. They're telling me what they need versus us telling them what they need. Our next one's going to be about mental health. Well, how can we help them with mental health? How can that look like drugs and alcohol? That's another one came up. Another one was ICE and the immigration issue that was going on another one. Another program that I'm doing is Genteel's vote. It's also youth led youth ambassadors, the youth speaking to the youth about, you know, the importance of voting and the process of voting and registering and things like that. I do have a non profit, it's a community boxing gym. It's called Senda 151. Sell that, which is cell block. That was my cell when I was incarcerated. 151, so I kept that name. I empower the kids to become the best version of themselves. You know, we instill integrity, you know, respect, discipline, and we go from there. And it's just not about the physical aspect. It's the psychological part of it. Overcoming adversities, being resilient, emotional intelligence. So that's what I try to instill in these kids, you know, and understanding the youth. I also go into Kojak as a youth detention center here in Tecumseh, Oklahoma and also have a program inside. The youth detention center here in Oklahoma City is called mind over matter, which is a life skills program also just kind of self awareness and things like that and communicating and career development and, you know, career pathways.

[Hannah Smith]

Amazing.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

So I'm out there.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

That's awesome.

[Hannah Smith]

Well, you know, the only last question that I have, I guess, is like, you know, we spent a lot of time in the beginning, and you did a great job kind of walking us through growing up your life, sort of the ups and downs that you experienced with sometimes difficulty with substance use and going through these dark periods of time and your divorce and other periods of sort of spiraling, but then trying to pick yourself back up and always wanting to have a better version of your life. And I'm curious, you know, when you look back at who you were and your mindset and your life before you were incarcerated versus now getting your sentence commuted and being out and having a very different life, what do you think about when you reflect on how this experience has changed you as a person?

[Zeke Gonzalez]

I have a sister, and she asked me, like, zeke, you ever regret anything in life? I know. She goes, not even prison? I said, like, no, because it made me who I am today. I had to go through that to understand who I am and what I'm doing now. You know, I had to go through all that to understand that. And if I had to go through that again, I would. I'm totally honest right now. This might say, okay, then I'll become a better person after this. Oh, yeah, 100%. And I did.

[Hannah Smith]

That was our interview with Zeke. Thank you, Zeke, for joining us.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, I loved speaking with Zeke and hearing about the work he's doing now. Probably the most surprising moment from the interview for me was the way he talked about finding out he was sentenced to life.

[Hannah Smith]

That was so bizarre.

[Patia Eaton]

Bizarre. Like kind of feeling a sense of relief.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

You know, I think I understood it more as our conversation went on, because at first I was like, okay, great. I don't know what to do with that. But then, you know, as he sort of unpacked more about, like, what it felt like to really just be done with that part of his life completely, and now he's in this new place where he can do what he has gotten really good at, which is rebuilding and doing something positive and putting all of his energy into bettering his life, and seemed like he made a lot of positive impact in the places where he was in prison. And so I understood it more, especially when he then talked about still, you know, he still missed his family a lot and wanted his freedom back.

[Hannah Smith]

It's like a very specific mindset that he had to enter into and sort of stay in to Be able to not probably just, like, not be completely depressed and give up when you're in prison and you're facing a life sentence. Like, I think it takes a pretty strong person to be able to have that outlook in those circumstances.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. And to still find purpose in a place like that with no end in sight. I mean. Yeah, you're right. That was surprising to me. But I understand it, I think, now.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Hearing Zeke's story and I think thinking about anyone. But in this case, Zeke being arrested and having this turn of events that leads to a life sentence in a moment in your life when things are going really well and you're actually not doing anything wrong. That was so sad and just a difficult thing to imagine. But we know that cannabis and the way that those crimes are prosecuted is not always fair to everyone. And I was doing some Googling and found a stat where an ACLU report back in 2018 said that law enforcement made well over half a million marijuana arrests, which was more arrests than for all other violent crimes combined. And in these marijuana arrests, sometimes these arrests are just tickets, or sometimes they're not arrests at all, but they still lead to, you know, court proceedings and parole. And then while people are on parole, just like Zeke is when they get these big sentences.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Because a parole violation could be anything. It could be drinking, you know, or something that was totally unrelated to their cannabis use or cannabis charge.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And things have really changed since 2018. But I think it is important to understand how things used to be and back when, you know, Zeke was arrested and even until more recently. But, yeah, thinking about how even cannabis. I think it used to be in every state, a Schedule 1 drug. I think technically it's still a Schedule 1 drug federally, but I was seeing that there's already been a ton of movement to change that to a Schedule 3, because a Schedule 1 drug is like heroin. It's technically a drug that is listed as having no medical benefit, which is clearly not true about cannabis. But people are being prosecuted historically for weed possession in these, like, alarming ways that now it seems so insane because it's legal, like, almost everywhere now, you know, or at least decriminalized.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Like, I can walk across the street from where I live and by cannabis in all forms and for all different sort of ailments or reasons. So the idea that someone else is sitting in prison for using it or selling it is strange.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Okay. I was looking up some information about it today. There's a website called drugabusestatistics.org and they had some interesting charts on there that show that the arrest for drug possession drastically reduced in the US in 2020. And since now, it's interesting to hear you talk about this 2018 stat because it seems like the trend started changing in 2020, which is still four years after it was legal in California and many other states. So during that time, there's still a lot of people that were being arrested and charged for things like possession and being put in prison. But there actually has been, I think, a pretty large effort in the US to change laws around cannabis and to work to retroactively looking back at sentencing and changing those as well. There's also the National Conference of State Legislatures. They have a cannabis overview and they have a map on here that shows the US and what states have changed their laws around cannabis. So as of 2023, 45 states, two territories and Washington D.C. have record clearing laws which may apply to cannabis, meaning they're going back through old records actively.

[Patia Eaton]

That's great.

[Hannah Smith]

Some of those places it's on like the incarcerated person to, you know, fill out an application or try to get their case looked at. And that's not equal among all states. So some states charge for that 65 to $135. You know, there's these filing fees. Some states, it's free.

[HeroBread Advertiser]

Really.

[Patia Eaton]

Feels like it should be free.

[Hannah Smith]

It feels like it should be free.

[Patia Eaton]

Feels like it should be free. If you're sitting in prison for something that's now legal, like you have to pay to be like, hey, wait a minute, no.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And some states like California, there's an automatic process. So the burden is on the courts to go back through and look through records and expunge eligible cannabis related offenses. And so expungement, I think is probably the best version of that. That's the total removal of an offense from a criminal record. And as we've talked about many times on the show, having something on your criminal record can deeply impact your life.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

Being able to get a job.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. Get an apartment, all of it. It has that ripple effect that makes everything else more difficult.

[Hannah Smith]

Right. So 24 states, two territories and the District of Columbia have legalized small amounts of cannabis marijuana for adult recreational use. And then additional states have, you know, legal medical use. And then there's some additional states that have basically decriminalized it. So there hasn't been an official legalization, but you're not going to be looking at getting arrested or going to jail or prison for small amounts of possession. Except for Kansas and Idaho. Kansas and Idaho are the two mainland states that have not passed any meaningful changes in their cannabis laws.

[Patia Eaton]

I don't know anything about Kansas, but I have to say Idaho, I'm not surprised to hear that.

[Hannah Smith]

I mean, they're both pretty rural and conservative places, so I don't know what the reasoning is necessarily for them not making these changes, but if you live in a state that's next door, it's really important to be aware of, because in Kansas and Idaho, if you are caught with even a small amount of weed, you're looking at jail time.

[Patia Eaton]

That's scary.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Like in Idaho, it's still a Schedule 1 drug.

[Patia Eaton]

That's madness.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Whereas in other places, it's like the smallest misdemeanor. If it's not decriminalized, you're looking at, like $100 fine or maybe $1,000, which is, you know, the most extreme version. And then you go to Idaho, and it's like you're going to be charged as if you have heroin on you.

[Patia Eaton]

I guess the only surprising thing about that to me with Idaho, because, you know, I'm from Washington state, like, I. And I went to school in Eastern Washington, so I've spent a fair amount of time in Idaho. But it's that there's also a lot of, like, wealthy pockets of Idaho now where people have these beautiful second, third, fourth homes. And I would imagine those people are flying in from other places where weed might be legal. And what do they make of that? Or maybe they're just so protected in their little gated communities that it really doesn't matter.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Like, I wonder how often this is being enforced, you know, and I'm not sure.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah, well. And, you know, I don't know the stats on it, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear if it's disproportionately enforced in certain. With certain demographics. Yeah, that's typically the case.

[Hannah Smith]

So I was happy to hear that most states, it seems like, have passed laws and are being pretty proactive about trying to right the wrongs of people just sitting in prison for something that is legal now, you know?

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, we should always be doing that if we ever change the law and there's someone in jail for breaking a law that no longer exists, like, yes, let's go get them out.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes.

[Patia Eaton]

And let's not charge them $65 to do it.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, exactly. And I did find. I wanted to note. NPR's Planet Money put out a report. This was in 2021. So it's been a Couple of years. But they looked at a bunch of different studies. I guess it had been enough time that had passed with weed being legalized in different states that there have been studies that have popped up about what are the repercussions, both good and bad, of legalization. When the conversations were happening around legalization, I think the first states legalized in 2012, and then California and a bunch of other places in 2016, 2018, we saw more of it. There were people arguing that the violent crime rate would skyrocket with the legalization of weed. And then people that were pro legalizing weed claimed that, no, it's going to reduce the violent crime rate. And a study by the Cato Institute found that overall crime rates neither soared nor plummeted. So it doesn't seem like it really affected that at all. And legalization also seems to have little or no effect on traffic accidents and fatalities. That was another big anti legalization argument that we would see a lot more fatalities on the road. And that has not seemed to be the case. People that were pro legalization argued that it would make weed more affordable. And that has not been the case. Sounds like the price is sort of steady. Like even legal weed is. It's not like it's so much cheaper than when we were buying it.

[Patia Eaton]

I don't think it's cheap at all. Like, when I walk into that store, I'm like, shocked.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Patia Eaton]

And I mean, look, I'm not spending a lot of money there, but I've gone in on occasion.

[Zeke Gonzalez]

Sure.

[Patia Eaton]

Like, yeah. It is surprising actually to me how like they have this cannabis lemonade or something. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I couldn't. I don't remember how much it was, but I remember being very surprised.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

But I bought it.

[Hannah Smith]

How was it?

[Patia Eaton]

Fine.

[Hannah Smith]

Could have been more lemony.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. I think I just like my lemonade straight up. You know, we'd be with a little bit of iced tea in Arnold Palmer.

[Hannah Smith]

Delicious in the summer.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. That's maybe a little more my speed, but no judgment.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

Just anecdotally, I remember when those conversations were happening. Cause I'm from Washington state, which I think legalized pretty early.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

That we're legalizing this gateway drug. This gateway drug.

[Hannah Smith]

Sure.

[Patia Eaton]

And I also, anecdotally have never seen that play out where it's like, well, now that I can buy it legally, why don't I go try to buy this other stuff illegally?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. That doesn't seem to be the case. I think that there are some stats that more people are using cannabis now that it's legal, which would make sense. But it doesn't seem to be having these alarming effects that I think people were worried about. It has affected state budgets in a really big way. The price we pay when we go to the dispensary, a lot of that is going to tax revenue going into states. And that's been really financially beneficial to states that have legalized. And legalization has created a lot of jobs as well. A report from Leafley and Whitney Economics found that in 2021, the marijuana industry was booming. They calculated it created approximately 77,000 jobs. And across the country, there are about 321,000 jobs in the legal marijuana industry. That stats a few years old, but still, it's definitely been like a job creation thing. So I think that is also why we've seen some of the more conservative states legalize it for that revenue purpose. Right.

[Patia Eaton]

It's a good reason.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So I think it's great. And I also, I love to hear that states are being proactive about trying to correct their mistakes and get people out of prison that are in prison for something that is legal. And I also just think that, I don't know, it just seems like such a waste, honestly, to put people in prison for something like drug possession to me, because it doesn't really help someone.

[Patia Eaton]

Right. Like, who are we protecting by doing that and what damage are we doing to those people by imprisoning them and putting this on their record?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

I was so glad to hear from Zeke and thought his story was scary at times, but I love that it ended with him free and doing work for his community.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I mean, and he does so much. He's like such an involved guy and he creates programs and works with youth in the area and is such a good example of someone who clearly has a positive impact on the world around him and maybe hasn't always. He was very honest about his past, but that's like, who. People are complicated and we can change.

[Patia Eaton]

Yeah. It's exactly what Emily Galvin Almanza was talking about in our conversation with her about, you know, we're wasting a lot of potential putting all these people in prison.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Patia Eaton]

People are capable of doing a lot. We should nurture that.

[Hannah Smith]

Totally. Yeah. He's a great example of that. Cool. Well, I think that's. I think that's our episode today.

[Patia Eaton]

Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can follow us on Instagram heknifepodcast or blueskyenifepodcast.

[Hannah Smith]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith

[Patia Eaton]

and me, Pasha Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breifel and Alexis Amorosi.

[Hannah Smith]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.

[Patia Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Hannah Smith]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Patia Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

[Hannah Smith]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

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