The Knife: Off Record – 106

Summary

The Knife: Off Record – Episode 106 Summary

Release Date: May 1, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 106 of The Knife: A True Crime Podcast, hosts Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton delve into a complex fraud case intertwined with wrongful convictions and serial killings. This episode meticulously unpacks the rise and fall of Osama El Atari, his fraudulent activities, and his unexpected connection to a notorious serial killer, George Avila Torres. Through in-depth analysis and empathetic storytelling, Hannah and Patia reveal the intricate ripple effects of crime on individuals and communities.

Background of Osama El Atari

Osama El Atari emerged as a prominent restaurant owner in Ashburn, Virginia, during the early 2000s. Coming from a middle-class family with a history in the restaurant business, Osama quickly established himself as a successful entrepreneur. By 2008, his ostentatious lifestyle, marked by ownership of luxury cars including two Lamborghinis, two Ferraris, and a Rolls Royce Phantom, painted the picture of a man thriving in his ventures.

“He was pretty well known amongst his community and he owned multiple restaurants, including Lucky's, a sports Theater and Grill.” ([13:07])

Despite his apparent success, signs of financial instability began to surface as Osama took out substantial bank loans, sparking the onset of his fraudulent activities.

The Fraud Scheme

In December 2007, Osama secured a $5 million loan from United Bank, intending to expand his restaurant empire. However, the legitimacy of his loan was compromised when an assistant vice president at United Bank identified fraudulent life insurance policies used as collateral. Instead of reporting the discrepancy, this bank official collaborated with Osama, providing him with a fabricated accountant, Gordon Leipzig, to facilitate the loan. This collaboration resulted in a $150,000 kickback to the bank official and enabled Osama to secure additional loans totaling $17 million from various banks.

“This assistant vice president of the bank created a fake accountant, Gordon Leipzig... and was able to get Osama to give him a $150,000 kickback.” ([17:39])

Osama's extravagant spending, including purchasing a $4.5 million mansion and a rare NFL jersey for $25,000, raised further suspicions about the source of his wealth.

Collapse and Arrest

By early 2009, Osama had amassed loans totaling approximately $70 million from seven different banks. Unable to sustain the repayments, his fraudulent scheme unraveled. In May 2009, United Bank discovered the falsified life insurance documents, leading to a police investigation. Osama fled, leaving behind 18 large-screen televisions at his residence, a clue that baffled investigators.

After an eight-month disappearance, Osama was apprehended in January 2010 at a Ferrari dealership in Texas. In April 2010, he pled guilty to three counts of bank fraud and one count of money laundering, receiving a 12-year prison sentence.

“He pled guilty to three counts of bank fraud and one count of money laundering... sent to serve time at the Arlington County Jail.” ([21:46])

Connection to George Avila Torres

While serving his sentence, Osama became cellmates with George Avila Torres, a young Marine accused of multiple violent crimes. Recognizing an opportunity, Osama agreed to wear a wire to extract confessions from George. This collaboration proved pivotal in linking George to several heinous crimes.

George Avila Torres had been charged with the rape and kidnapping of multiple women in Arlington, Virginia, in early 2010. Additionally, he was implicated in the 2005 double murder of Lara Hobbs and Crystal Tobias in Illinois. Despite initial denials, jailhouse confessions and DNA evidence eventually led to his conviction.

“George Avila Torres... was convicted of rape, kidnapping, and the murders of Lara Hobbs and Crystal Tobias.” ([32:37])

Wrongful Conviction and Exoneration of Jerry Hobbs

A significant subplot of the episode highlights the wrongful conviction of Jerry Hobbs, father of one of George's victims, Lara Hobbs. Initially arrested and charged based on coerced confessions and circumstantial evidence, Jerry spent five years in prison before DNA evidence exonerated him.

“Jerry Hobbs was exonerated and eventually received a $7.75 million settlement.” ([41:55])

This miscarriage of justice underscores the profound impact of flawed investigations and the importance of accurate forensic methods.

Osama El Atari’s Downfall and Death

After assisting in the conviction of George Avila Torres, Osama faced numerous challenges upon his release in 2014. Unable to locate the substantial funds he had embezzled, he became the target of a violent scheme orchestrated by Donald Clay, who sought to seize Osama’s hidden money. In February 2016, Osama was brutally murdered in an abandoned industrial area in Capitol Heights, Maryland, by Clay and his accomplices. The lack of recovered funds and the mystery surrounding Osama's vast unaccounted assets remain unresolved.

“They ended up killing him. So all three men were arrested and charged.” ([53:24])

Conclusion

Episode 106 of The Knife: Off Record intricately weaves the narrative of financial fraud, wrongful conviction, and serial killings, demonstrating how interconnected and far-reaching the consequences of crime can be. Through comprehensive storytelling and detailed analysis, Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton shed light on the complexities of these cases, highlighting the importance of diligent investigative practices and the profound human cost of criminal activities.

Notable Quotes

• “It's easy to sort of make excuses when you want something so badly.” – Hannah Smith ([04:39])

• “He was a smooth talker, you know, gets people to trust him.” – Pasha Eaton ([31:28])

• “It doesn't matter if you think that they were a bad guy. You could look at Jerry Hobbs and say... he didn't murder his daughter or Crystal.” – Hannah Smith ([43:54])

Key Takeaways

• Interconnected Crimes: The episode illustrates how financial fraud can intersect with violent crimes, leading to a cascade of legal and personal repercussions.

• Wrongful Convictions: Highlighting Jerry Hobbs' exoneration emphasizes the critical need for accurate evidence and the potential for systemic failures within the justice system.

• Impact on Victims and Families: The wrongful conviction not only affected Jerry Hobbs but also added another layer of trauma to the families of the actual victims.

• The Human Element: Osama El Atari's story is a stark reminder of how individuals involved in crime can influence and impact other criminal activities, sometimes leading to unforeseen consequences.

Recommendations

Hannah and Pasha also share book recommendations related to their discussions, enriching the episode with additional resources for listeners interested in exploring similar true crime narratives.

• Book Recommendation: There Is No How: Three Women Uncovered America's Biggest Catfish by Ana Akbari
• Podcast Recommendation: Con Caitlyn's Baby – explores the story of Caitlin and fraudulent actions within the doula community.

Final Thoughts

The Knife: Off Record – Episode 106 masterfully navigates through a labyrinth of crimes, highlighting the intricate ties between financial deceit and violent offenses. The hosts' empathetic approach and thorough investigation provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the complexities involved in true crime cases.

Transcript

[Pasha Eaton]

This is exactly right.

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Hannah Smith]

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[Pasha Eaton]

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[Hannah Smith]

This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Pasha Eaton]

Hello and welcome. This is the Knife Off Record. Hi, I'm Pasha Eaton.

[Hannah Smith]

And I'm Hannah Smith. Today we're going to talk about a fraud case that turned into a much bigger story than it appeared at face value. But first, we're going to discuss a book that Paisha and I both read and love. And we think you will love as well.

[Pasha Eaton]

We read it and we listened.

[Hannah Smith]

We did.

[Pasha Eaton]

Which one did we do?

[Hannah Smith]

I actually listened. I listened. Yeah. I didn't read that. Does that count as reading?

[Pasha Eaton]

I don't know. My mom's a librarian, so I'm going to tell her I read it.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, I think it counts. The book is called There Is no How Three Women Uncovered America's Biggest Catfish by Ana Akbari. And the basic synopsis is that Ana takes us through an experience she had meeting this man named Ethan Schumann on an online dating platform, OkCupid, in late 2010. I think of this period of time as like, there were so many catfishing experiences happening, we didn't really know yet to be aware of this or to be wary of it. And I feel Like, I've just listened to and heard so many stories of people being conned around this time period.

[Pasha Eaton]

It was such a new moment for online dating. I actually met my husband online in 2013, and it was still so new that I remember when people would ask us how we met, we would sort of dodge the question because it was almost, like, embarrassing.

[Hannah Smith]

I know. I was actually just thinking about that the other day. It feels like not that long ago, but it was so unusual back then, and it was. I remember. I remember meeting people who had said, we met online, and I was like, oh, that's kind of cool and weird and interesting and what's wrong with you?

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, because we met online when you couldn't even log into the app on your phone. You were getting on your computer, right?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And I think this was the same with this story with there is no Ethan. She's logging into the computer OkCupid around this time, so. So this book is part Ana talking about her personal experience being scammed, and then it's also part investigative. It really feels like a podcast. Except it's a book.

[Pasha Eaton]

It's a book, and that means we read it whether or not we listened or read it. And, yeah, listening to it and putting yourself back in that place of wanting to meet someone and being really hopeful when you have chemistry, which we all know can exist digitally, but being on the forefront of that and not knowing how to level your own expectations accordingly.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And when you want something so badly, it's really easy to sort of make excuses. I spent many years on the online dating platforms, and I can tell you, it is harrowing at times.

[Pasha Eaton]

I've heard it's gotten so much worse.

[Hannah Smith]

I thought you were going to say gotten so much better. No, I was like, no, it has not. No one's out there saying, this is such a great experience. I love dating online, but it is the modern way. I loved listening to this book because it felt like I was listening to an extended podcast that I had hours of, and that is a joy. They have an actor do the voice of Ethan, which I thought was good. I thought they did a good job, and it was really engaging. And then Anna goes on to talk about how she connects with these other women who are also victims of the same person, and it really pays off. Listen to the very end, because unlike some stories where you don't get answers, you do get answers here, which is, you know, enticing.

[Pasha Eaton]

These victims get all of the answers and, well, I guess, you know, all compared to maybe many other victims of Catfishing frauds. But the reveal is mind blowing. It truly is someone you would never expect, which as you're rethinking about the story that you listened to is like, she could never have anticipated the outcome of this. You know, there are red flags in a lot of relationships and maybe some people's minds take it to a worst case scenario. I don't even think anyone could have anticipated where this was going.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, I agree. It's a great lesson. We highly recommend it. Thrilling all the way through.

[Pasha Eaton]

And I actually have another recommendation.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, Patia. Okay. Yeah. Coming in with two recommendations.

[Pasha Eaton]

Two recommendations today. This one is the Con Caitlyn's Baby.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay, I've not heard of this.

[Pasha Eaton]

All right, so this is about a woman named Caitlin.

[Hannah Smith]

Is this a podcast? A show?

[Pasha Eaton]

This is a podcast.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

This is a podcast. The Con Caitlyn's Baby. And it's about a young woman named Caitlin who reaches out to doulas and both in person and virtually utilizes their services over and over and over again through extreme situations like pregnancy loss, rape, and medical events like a coma. You know, they reveal pretty early on. Not everything is as it seems. But the story is just a world. I knew nothing about Doulas like this online community of people that you can reach out to for birth support no matter where you're at in your pregnancy. And you know, this is a line of work you get into if you're super passionate about it. And you would never imagine someone taking advantage. So these doulas were having very intimate experiences with someone that they were trying to help who was misleading them in a major way. And it just blew my mind. The extent this person went to, to mislead people was so egregious. And, you know, there's a reveal at the end of someone very close to her that maybe knew it was happening that I found especially surprising. It's a great listen. The story moves really quickly and there was a lot I didn't know about that world. I think I have a much better understanding of now.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow, that sounds really great. I'll definitely check that out. Yeah. So you didn't have a doula?

[Pasha Eaton]

I didn't have a doula, no. I. I didn't know what they were. I just did it the old fashioned way with a lot of drugs.

[Hannah Smith]

Great. However you choose to do it is great.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yes.

[Hannah Smith]

I mean, we've talked a lot about like medical fraud and stories in that world, but I never heard about someone conning a doula before. So. Yeah, that's definitely intriguing.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I mean you're in a way seeking it's not medical support like these people are not doctors. But I think birth is maybe referred to as a routine medical event or a routine health event. And it does surprise me that this sort of in between is there for these moments that are very close to birth.

[Hannah Smith]

Thanks for the recommendation. I always love a good podcast recommendation, so I will check it out.

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[Hannah Smith]

Okay, so I have a story to tell you today and it's kind of in multiple parts. I thought of this story recently because last week we had a great interview with Jennifer Thompson. If you haven't heard that yet, go check it out. It made me think back to this story because wrongful conviction does play a role. So I wanted to talk to you about it today. This is a story that I heard about months and months and months ago, I don't know, a year ago. And I have been intrigued by it. It kind of falls into that category of I made some calls and wasn't able to find anyone to do an interview for this story.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I remember when you initially found the story and you told me just a little bit about it, but like you said, you made some calls and we had kind of moved on. So I'm really excited to hear.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay, so the first part of this story takes place in Virginia. And most of the information I'm getting here is from an FBI affidavit as well as an article from Washington City Paper called King of Ashburn. That is a great article. Written in 2016. This is a story about a man named Osama El Athari. He grew up in Virginia in the 80s and 90s in a middle class family and then became this notable restaurant owner in Ashburn, Virginia. By the early 2000s. He was pretty well known amongst his community and he owned multiple restaurants, including Lucky's, a sports Theater and Grill. I never heard the term sports theater before, but I think it's just like a sports bar, a sports theater, theater. Have you heard that before?

[Pasha Eaton]

Never.

[Hannah Smith]

And then two locations of a place called the Original Steakhouse and Sports Theater, also a sports theater.

[Pasha Eaton]

Are they performing the sports.

[Hannah Smith]

The Original Steakhouse and Sports Theater is described as half booth restaurant and half sports bar.

[Pasha Eaton]

I love a booth.

[Hannah Smith]

I love a booth too. Any restaurant with a booth. I'm in.

[Pasha Eaton]

I'm in.

[Hannah Smith]

I don't even care what they're serving.

[Pasha Eaton]

No, they're great. They corral toddlers.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh yeah, that is another great use.

[Pasha Eaton]

Huge selling point for me.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay. It's also noted that his family owned multiple Buffalo wing factory locations. So it seemed like the restaurant business was kind of the family business. And then he got into it and by all accounts he was really successful. He was also a Very flashy guy. He loved a good sports car. Around 2008, he owned two Lamborghinis, two Ferraris, and a Rolls Royce Phantom, which I looked that up because I know nothing about cars. A Rolls Royce Phantom today can be as much as like 400 to $500,000.

[Pasha Eaton]

So many, many, many of my current car, which is easily the nicest I've ever had, and many, many more of the Prius C I had for 12 years before this.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, that's well over a million dollars in cars, what he had. And at this point, he owned three restaurants, which seem to be busy. But you have to kind of wonder, okay, well, how much money are you really making here? According to the Washington City Paper article, he bought a mansion that had seven bathrooms that was 7,590 square feet for $4.5 million. And then he also bought a football jersey at a charity auction for $25,000. It was the jersey of NFL player Sean Taylor, who actually was murdered in his home in 2007. So, you know, he was definitely spending money. His friends and family said that he spent money in a charitable way. Mostly he bought things for people around him. He sponsored local sports teams. He was seen as a very generous person and was upstanding. This well to do guy in his community. He did get into some trouble with the law when it comes to driving. He got a lot of traffic tickets for driving his cars too fast for speeding.

[Pasha Eaton]

Well, you have to wonder, you have all of these sports cars, where are you going?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, I mean, if you have them, you think you would want to drive them?

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I mean, mine would have, you know, I would be going to the grocery store and back just as fast as you can.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, yeah. So he did have traffic violations. He did a short stint in jail even for a traffic violation. But other than that, he seemed to be on the straight and narrow. But then he started to take out bank loans. The first one is In December of 2007, he secured a $5 million loan from United Bank. And the purpose stated on his loan application was to acquire two more original steakhouse locations in Maryland. He provided two cash value life insurance policies to the bank as collateral for this loan. And each of those was valued at over $3 million. But what didn't come out till later was that, you know, he would not have been able to secure this loan if it weren't for someone at the assistant vice president of the United bank saw these life insurance policies and immediately flagged that they were fake. And instead of flagging this to the bank. He met up at a Starbucks with Osama Al Atari and essentially said, I want in on this.

[Pasha Eaton]

Like, I know you're up to something.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, something is happening here. I don't really think that you're going to use this money for these restaurants. And basically said, I want in on your. Your scheme.

[Pasha Eaton]

Well, and then if you're Osama, what choice do you have but to agree you're up to something? And now this person at the bank knows.

[Hannah Smith]

That's a great point. Yeah. So this assistant vice president of the bank created a fake accountant, Gordon Leipzig. I don't know if I'm saying that right.

[Pasha Eaton]

Well, it doesn't matter. He's fake.

[Hannah Smith]

He's a fake person. That he created and fixed the life insurance policies to make them look convincing. And then was able. Osama was able to get this loan. In exchange, he gave him a $150,000 kickback.

[Pasha Eaton]

Classic.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes. And he was able to use these doctored life insurance policies to then go to other banks and get additional loans. So he continued to get loans. He also continued to get loans from a United bank in a total of $17 million.

[Pasha Eaton]

And the guy from the Starbucks meetup is in on these other loan acquisitions?

[Hannah Smith]

I don't know if he is. All I could find was that he was in on that first one and got that kickb back. Okay, but at this point, then, Osama already had the faked documents that were convincing and looked real, so he could use those to get other loans. And from the investigation, it looks like he started to spend the money pretty immediately on cars as well as the home that he bought. And then it became this, like, catch up game where he wasn't able to pay back these loans. So then he started to get more loans. And you can sort of get the feeling that the scam can go for a certain amount of time, but there's gonna be an endpoint where he's not able to pay anything back.

[Pasha Eaton]

Right. Is he thinking he'll just forever go make fake life insurance policies to get loans?

[Hannah Smith]

This is the big question I have with every fraud story we do is what is the end goal?

[Pasha Eaton]

It's like, what is your plan? There is no plan.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, you live large and you have fun, and then at some point it has to stop. Right.

[Pasha Eaton]

I want to sleep that well at night.

[Hannah Smith]

Me too. So, you know, of course things are gonna come to a head. By early 2009, he'd taken loans out from seven different banks in a total of around $70 million.

[Pasha Eaton]

And okay, I would love to have $70 million. But what are you doing with it?

[Hannah Smith]

You have a large amount of money.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, we were just talking about what tabs we needed to close in our computers and mine is always Old Navy.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, I mean, you could get a lot of shirts for that. For 7 to 70 million. So he's got a lot of money. The banks are catching on and they're demanding their money back. And in May of 2009, United bank realizes that the life insurance documents were faked. And authorities show up to Ossama's house and he is not there. He has fled. They did find 18 big screen televisions.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay, I do want to come back to the 18 televisions because I have so many questions, but is United bank, remind me, the first bank he secured the loan from?

[Hannah Smith]

Yes.

[Pasha Eaton]

And that is the bank where we know someone else at the bank knew about it.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, the assistant vice president. I don't know if he was still at the bank at that time. He will come back into this later.

[Pasha Eaton]

18 big screen televisions. And I don't quite recall, but I'm guessing they were those enormous box televisions at that time.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Cause 2009, they're not like as thin as they are now.

[Pasha Eaton]

They're not the frame TVs.

[Hannah Smith]

No.

[Pasha Eaton]

Now actually, I don't even think we call them big screens anymore.

[Hannah Smith]

Right.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow. So, okay, 18 of them.

[Hannah Smith]

So then he goes on the run and there's eight months where he's unaccounted for. He's on the run and no one knows exactly where he went. At one point, investigators in Brazil supposedly found a death certificate for him and a passport. But when it was looked into further, it was clear that that wasn't real and he had actually bribed someone in Brazil to try to fake his death. In June of 2009, he was charged in absentia with bank fraud. So they still didn't know where he was, but it was clear he'd done this. He's charged. And then In January of 2010, he was found in Texas at a Ferrari dealership.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh my gosh. A true, like car shopping compulsion.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I mean, he loved cars.

[Pasha Eaton]

I just wonder, wouldn't he want to be a little more incognito?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I don't know. It's strange, but that's where he was found. It also makes you wonder about the money, you know, like, is there money? Where did he put it?

[Pasha Eaton]

Like, is he physically carrying around all that cash?

[Hannah Smith]

Surely not.

[Pasha Eaton]

Surely not. But how's he. Yeah, how's he buying the car?

[Hannah Smith]

So In April of 2010, he pled guilty to three counts of bank fraud and one count of money laundering. And he was sentenced to 12 years in prison, followed by five years of supervised release and with sent to serve time at the Arlington County Jail. So this brings us to the second part of the story.

[Howie Mandel]

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[Hannah Smith]

Almost as soon as he's arrested, he starts trying to strike deals. He immediately turns in the United bank assistant vice president.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, my gosh.

[Hannah Smith]

Who had helped him doctor the life insurance policies. Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

He's like, if I'm going down, you're going down.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And once he's serving time, he seems to be on alert for any, like, jailhouse confessions that he can hear. He tells authorities at one point that he overheard this guy claiming to be involved in a terrorist smuggling operation. He provides details to them that one didn't end up leading to an arrest, but it sets the scene that he is very clearly someone who is, you know, notified law enforcement authorities that he is available.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, I see. So he's listening, like, what can I give them in exchange for maybe some leniency.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

So he's on the lookout.

[Hannah Smith]

He's on the lookout. He's like, if I can basically go undercover, I'm a prisoner here. But if there's anyone you're trying to get information out of, I'm your guy. Like, I'll do whatever. I'll wear a wire if it can get me out of prison sooner.

[Pasha Eaton]

I don't know that I would think to do this, but if I did, I would try.

[Hannah Smith]

You would try?

[Pasha Eaton]

I would do anything.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. You know, it could be a dangerous thing to do, but this is what he does. And pretty soon he gets the chance to do it. He ends up in a cell next to George Avila Torres. And people might recognize that name because he is now considered to be a serial killer. I want to note that his name is spelled Jorge. I looked this up because people kept calling him Geor. And he said that he goes by both Jorge and George. At one point, an officer asked him which he preferred and he said George. It sounds like he went by Jorge with his family. So I'm gonna call him George, but that is the situation with his name.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

So he is also in Arlington county jail awaiting trial. In 2010, George Avila Torres was arrested and charged with crimes committed in Arlington. The first one. On February 10, 2010, he attempted to abduct and assault a 26 year old woman who is unnamed in court documents. She was walking to her boyfriend's house. He came up behind her, grabbed her jacket, and kind of flashed that he was holding a gun. They had a struggle. And she just said, you know, do you Want my money? Take my purse. But he kept pulling her toward a tan dog, Durango. She was actually able to sort of shove her purse toward him and leave it and run away and escape from him. She had a friend who lived a couple houses down, and so she just ran into her friend's house. They immediately called the police, and she made a report. She reported what he looked like. She had clocked his vehicle as well.

[Pasha Eaton]

That is terrifying.

[Hannah Smith]

So scary. So then, you know, the police started to search. They didn't find anyone immediately, and they never found her purse. Two weeks later, close by, two female graduate students, who are also unnamed in the court documents, were walking to one of their homes when he emerged from behind a parked car. And it was the same thing, kind of. He immediately flashed that he had a gun. He demanded their wallet. They said they didn't have them on them. So he forced them to go into the house. He tied them up. One of them was able to kind of get loose and make a call to 911 with her cell phone. And this is 2010 again. So, like, the cell phone situation is different than we have now. He then got her phone, threw it against the wall and smashed it, and then took one of these women outside into his vehicle, the same tan Dodge Durango, and drove her to a remote area. He sexually assaulted her, then tied a scarf around her neck and attempted to kill her. She lost consciousness, but then woke up outside in the snow and was alive, and a passerby stopped and found her. She immediately made a police report. And based on her description of him as well as the vehicle, law enforcement pretty quickly realized this was the same person who had just tried to attack a woman two weeks prior. Arlington county police had also made a note that a few days before, they had observed this guy in the same type of vehicle out, like, stalking women. He looked really suspicious, and it was Georgia Villa Torres. They were able to locate him pretty quickly and arrested him on February 27, 2010, at Joint Base Meyerhouse Henderson hall, which is a residence hall on a military base. He was a Marine at the time. They searched his vehicle and found the school ID of the woman that he attempted to murder. And when they searched his barracks, they found a gun and incriminating content on his computer that was sexually violent.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow. So they found him based on the witness identification of him and of his car?

[Hannah Smith]

Yes.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. They didn't have a name or anything, but they must have had. Maybe they're just searching, like, a tan. What was it? A Bronco?

[Hannah Smith]

Dodge Durango?

[Pasha Eaton]

A Dodge Durango. A tan Dodge Durango. And that's how they found him?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

How old was he?

[Hannah Smith]

He was in his early 20s. I think he was 21 at the time.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, they did take DNA samples from him. He was charged and was awaiting trial at the time. When he encounters Osama El Atari in prison, they are in cells next to each other, and it's unclear to me exactly why they wanted him to wear a wire. I believe that investigators wondered if he was connected to a third murder, and they also just wanted more evidence to be able to, you know, get a clean conviction. So Osama Al Atari agreed. He told investigators he thought that this guy was a monster. He had already encountered him and had a really low opinion of him, but he was like, great, I'll do it. I'll wear a wire, and I'll befriend this guy.

[Pasha Eaton]

Osama must be really good at keeping his cool.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, exactly. Well, the guy that was able to convince banks to give him $70 million. Right, of course.

[Pasha Eaton]

Of course.

[Hannah Smith]

Gotta be, like, a smooth talker, you know, Gets people to trust him.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow. You also are like, if anyone finds out that I'm wearing a wire, I will never live it down here.

[Hannah Smith]

This guy is clearly, like, a violent, you know, dangerous person or has done violent and dangerous things. So, yeah, you have to assume it would be very nerve wracking to wear a wire and then try to get him to confess.

[Pasha Eaton]

Well, and because Osama had years left on his sentence, so it's not like, well, I'm gonna be out of here in six months anyway if I get caught.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes, exactly. So he befriended George Avila Torres, and he started by flattering him, just telling him that he was so impressed with his crimes. And this worked. Wow. You know, he was like, you're such a genius. If you wrote a book about everything you did, I would read it.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, my gosh.

[Hannah Smith]

And it works. So then George Avila Torres starts saying, well, they don't even know half of it, and I've done so much more. He admits that he's not just a rapist and a kidnapper, but he's also a murderer.

[Pasha Eaton]

And he's proud of this.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, so proud.

[Pasha Eaton]

He's, like, gloating.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

That has to be so hard for someone to listen to.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Totally screwed up. And in order to get him to keep talking, he's having to be like, that's so cool. Like, it's amazing that you got away with it. El Atari ends up getting Avila Torres saying on tape that he killed Navy Petty Officer Amanda Snell in 2009. She was 20 years old and also stationed at Joint Base Meyer Henderson hall, just down the dorm hall from him.

[Pasha Eaton]

And at this point in Amanda's case, was she disappeared, or did they know that she had been a victim of foul play?

[Hannah Smith]

So her murder was unsolved, but they.

[Pasha Eaton]

Knew that she had been murdered?

[Hannah Smith]

Yes. She was found dead in her room. Her cause of death after an autopsy was determined to be asphyxiation. And it was just clear, based on the scene, and investigators didn't have questions, they knew that there was foul play involved. There had actually been an investigation on the military base at the time, and tons of people were questioned, including George Avila Torres. And he agreed to the questioning at the time. He allowed his room to be searched. He even provided a DNA sample.

[Pasha Eaton]

Be interesting to know if he was polygraphed.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. But at the time, for whatever reason, I wasn't able to find out. They weren't able to connect him to it. But then, you know, once he was arrested for these other violent and sexually violent crimes, they started to look at him again, especially because he was, you know, in such close proximity to where Amanda lived. Right. He confessed on tape. Now, that gets a little tricky, because with jailhouse confessions, you don't always know if they're true. You know, was he the kind of guy who would just brag about something?

[Pasha Eaton]

When you say he confessed on tape, you're talking about to Osama.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes.

[Pasha Eaton]

Right. No one confessed during their investigation and a bunch of questioning.

[Hannah Smith]

So he denied it when he was questioned initially in the initial investigation and was not charged or arrested or anything. But once he was in prison for the crimes he committed in Arlington, the attack and kidnapping and attempted murder, they started to look at him again because he literally, like, lived down the hall from Amanda. I believe that this is why one of the things that they wanted Osama Al Atari to ask him about, and he did, and he admitted to it. He admitted that he did kill Amanda Snell. Jailhouse confessions, though, can be a little tricky, because how do you know if someone is telling the truth? Is this the kind of guy that would just brag about something that he didn't actually do to seem cool?

[Pasha Eaton]

So screwed up, but that would seem intimidating.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

You know, you're surrounded by people with a criminal history. Yeah. That would be murky.

[Hannah Smith]

Mm. Some of his details changed when he talked about it, but it was still close enough that it seemed very likely that he did kill her. He also confessed to the attacks in Arlington as well, so that was really helpful. For investigators and prosecutors. And we'll get to his trial.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh. Cause he's awaiting trial. He hasn't yet been sentenced.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow. He hasn't been convicted of any of it yet. And he's just awaiting trial for the Arlington attacks, where he attempted to abduct that first woman and then attacked those other two women, and one of them kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and attempted to kill her.

[Pasha Eaton]

It's terrible.

[Hannah Smith]

So he's waiting trial for all of that. And then while he's in prison, he also admits to Osama al Atari that he also murdered Amanda Snell the year before. But that's not all. He also tells Osama al Atari that he had committed another crime years before.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh. So Osama was told by the people who were working with him with the wire to get maybe confessions, told him to ask about Amanda, but not this next case that ends up coming up.

[Hannah Smith]

I couldn't get that information exactly. But that's my guess, from what I've read is that they wanted him to get a more detailed confession about the Arlington crimes that he had been charged with. Then they also had suspicions that he might be involved in Amanda Snell's murder. And I'm not sure if this other crime was on their radar at the time or not, because it seems like multiple things kind of happened at once.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

But George essentially tells Osama al Atari that he committed a double homicide back in 2005 when he was 16 years old.

[Pasha Eaton]

That's unimaginable.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

At any age, but at 16, it's really horrible.

[Hannah Smith]

He was living in Zion, Illinois, at the time, and he admitted to murdering Lara Hobbs and Crystal tobias, who were 8 and 9 years old. It's just horrible. It's so sad. They were brutally stabbed. And what happened with that case back in 2005, when the girls didn't come home, There was a search party sent out, and Laura's father, Jerry Hobbs, ended up finding their remains at a park. It was gruesome and horrible, and very quickly, he became a suspect and was questioned by police. He had a criminal record and had recently gotten out of prison. There was DNA at the crime scene. Ultimately, when they tested it, it did not match Jerry Hobbs. But I also read somewhere that there was some of his DNA on Lara, his daughter, which is kind of like, yeah, because they were living in the same house. You know, that could easily be possible. But. But Jerry Hobbs confessed to the crime. So when George is in prison telling Osama al Atari that he committed these crimes, he said, I was like, damn, I'm clean. I'm good. When he heard that Jerry Hobbs had confessed to the crime and he was bragging that he had gotten away with it, he was able to recount these murders in excruciating detail. And his story corresponded with the autopsies of the girls. So it was pretty clear that he did do this. Around this same time, the DNA from that crime scene was tested, and it was matched to George Avila Torres.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, my gosh. And the father of Laura Hobbs. Jerry Hobbs. He had been charged or sentenced?

[Hannah Smith]

Well, he'd been charged, and he was awaiting trial, but he had been in prison for five years.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, my God. Yeah, he had been in jail five years while mourning the loss of his daughter and her friend. And knowing he didn't do this, and that means that someone who did isn't doing their own time for it.

[Hannah Smith]

Well, the guy who did, Georgia Vila Torres, went on to kill Amanda Snell and then to attack three more women.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, right. Because he was only 16. We were going back in time.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

So he wasn't caught, like, back in 2005. And then he went on to do maybe even more we don't know of. I mean, it's devastating. Devastating. So Jerry Hobbs eventually was exonerated. According to the Innocence Project, when he was released, he was told by officers that they were releasing him because they couldn't prove his guilt without reasonable doubt. People were really convinced that he had done this. He was dubbed Monster Hobbs by media outlets, and everyone just really thought that he did it, and he didn't. He did sign a confession back in 2005, but when you look at the circumstances in which he signed it, he had been out searching for his daughter for a long time. He was incredibly stressed. He hadn't been sleeping. Then was immediately, immediately implicated by law enforcement. They brought him in for questioning, and he was held for over 24 hours. And Hobbes described that time as grueling interrogation, at the end of which he signed a coerced confession, which he later recanted. And, you know, at the time, law enforcement thought he was guilty for a variety of reasons. They said it was suspicious that he found the body of the girls. Like, how did he know where to look? Also, he had a criminal record. He had drug and domestic violence charges. And at one point, you know, when he lived back in Texas, he got into an argument with someone and apparently chased them around a trailer park with a chainsaw.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow. Nobody should do that.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So it's not like anyone is saying, oh, this great guy over here, but it reminds me of something that Jennifer Thompson said when she said, it doesn't help anyone when the wrong person goes to prison for a crime.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yep.

[Hannah Smith]

It doesn't matter if you think that they were a bad guy. You could look at Jerry Hobbs and say, a lot of the stuff that he's done is bad, but he didn't murder his daughter or Crystal. And he had just recently gotten out of prison and joined his family in Zion, Illinois, before all of this happened. So, you know, he was implicated and arrested and charged, but he was still in prison awaiting trial. And one of the things that is pretty wild is that within I believe, the first year him being in prison, the DNA that was collected from the crime scene was run against his DNA, and it wasn't a match.

[Pasha Eaton]

So there's two DNA samples on Laura Hobbs. One is her father, Jerry Hobbs. Another is an unknown male, but on her friend, I'd be curious to know, was Jerry's DNA also on her friend somehow? Because it seems like if they found two samples and one sample, regardless of if they had a match yet, was on both. Why are you not pressing harder on your own theory?

[Hannah Smith]

Because they already had a theory. Right. So, yes, there was this other DNA sample that was on both of the girls bodies that was an unknown person. As part of the signed confession that was given to Jerry Hobbs to sign. Their theory was that he was mad at his daughter for being outside because she was grounded. So he came across them in the park and, like, went into a rage and started attacking his daughter. And that Crystal, who was 9, had a knife on her that she pulled out to protect them, and that was the knife he used to kill them. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. And also, the knife was never found. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Did you find anything about Crystal's parents? And if they accepted Jerry, as, you know, they believed he had done this.

[Hannah Smith]

I'm not sure.

[Pasha Eaton]

This is a long time ago.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. But you have to imagine that when it came out that the wrong person had been arrested, that that was devastating for them. I'm sure. You know, it's just. It's not good for anyone when that happens.

[Pasha Eaton]

And you're leaning on law enforcement to find the person that committed these murders and to question them would be really hard. It would put you in a difficult position, maybe strain your relationship at a time when you. You want to be communicated with.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, in 2010. And this is why I'm not sure the exact timeline of events, because it's in 2010 when Osama Al Atari wears a wire in prison. And gets this confession from George Avil Torres. It's also in 2010 when Jerry Hobbs lawyers finally secure a go ahead to run that DNA through a national database. That hadn't happened yet. That has to make you question as well, like, how much did they really want to solve this? Right.

[Pasha Eaton]

If you have the ability to do that, don't you want to know? Also, even if you're totally convinced that Jerry Hobbs was there, he did it, if there's male DNA on both of these girls, was someone with him, and don't you want to know? Doesn't that matter to you?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, you would think that. Right. So they finally run it, and it is a match with George Avila Torres. You know, remember back when there was an investigation into Amanda Snell's murder, He had agreed to give a DNA sample. So his DNA again was taken when he was arrested for the Arlington crime. So it was in the system at that time. It was a match. In 2010, Jerry Hobbs was exonerated and eventually received a $7.75 million settlement.

[Pasha Eaton]

You know, $7.75 million. That's so much money. But when you think about the trauma of what this person went through, to lose their daughter and her friend in the most brutal way and then to be targeted by law enforcement wrongly having been in custody for this. And the court of public opinion can.

[Hannah Smith]

Be extremely rough, especially since he had a criminal record. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like there's just not as much sympathy for people. It doesn't matter. He still was imprisoned for five years for something he didn't do and blamed for his own daughter's murder. It's horrible. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

I mean, regardless of someone's past, that's an incredible loss.

[Hannah Smith]

So as far as George Avila Torres, In October of 2010, he was found guilty of rape and kidnapping charges and sentenced to five life sentences without parole, plus 100 years. 168 years. And that was just for the arlington crimes. In 2011, he was charged by federal authorities with the death of Amanda SNELL. And in 2014, a federal jury, backed by the jailhouse confession and Osama El Atari's testimony and the DNA evidence, sentenced him to death for the Snell murder, making him the first person since 2007 to receive such a verdict. But actually, just last year, his death sentence was commuted. So he's no longer on death row, but he will serve the rest of his life in prison. And then in 2018, he faced trial for the murders of Laura Hobbs and Crystal Tobias, the girls in Illinois and He pled guilty. You know, it seemed like he pled guilty instead of going to trial. It was very clear that he did it. In exchange for his plea, he was given 100 years imprisonment and he was able to transfer out of a prison with which he didn't like being in at the time. I think one of the reasons they did this is that Osama El Atari's testimony was really helpful in getting a conviction for him with Amanda Snell's murder. And it would have been really helpful with the double murder of Laura Hobbs and Crystal Tobias if that had gone to trial. But unfortunately, Osama Al Atari was no longer alive at that point. He pled guilty, and he was sentenced for that as well. So he's been convicted on all of those charges. And, you know, at that sentencing hearing, the justice told him, you're a serial killer. And we don't know if there are other crimes that are connected to him or not, but he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

[Pasha Eaton]

It has to be such a balance for the prosecutors who are working on a case like this one, because once you sentence someone to a hundred years, I mean, 100 year sentence is like, even that's a small price to pay still for what he is. But you also are then losing your leverage to find out about others and maybe close more cases that are out there that possibly he was involved with. And that has to be a difficult thing to reconcile.

[Hannah Smith]

Well, couldn't he, in theory still be charged?

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, but I would think he'd be way less inclined to give them any information. But I guess with the, you know, technology and advancements with DNA, maybe they don't even need it.

[Hannah Smith]

You're right. He would have no incentive because he's never gonna get out of prison.

[Pasha Eaton]

He's never gonna get out of prison and he should.

[Hannah Smith]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

So Osama had passed away at this point, but after Osama brought them these confessions from George Avila Torres, do we know, was part of that agreement? And then you're getting me to a new location.

[Hannah Smith]

I'm not 100% sure about that. But his prison sentence was cut in half, basically. So he was released from prison in 2014, and he served less than half of his sentence. So he was out by 2014.

[Pasha Eaton]

It's so mind blowing that you could have someone like Giorgio Vila Torres, who's committed these heinous murders and attempted murders in the same place as someone who's committing financial fraud, because both are illegal, but they're very different.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And I think it was maybe because they Were in a jail. I don't know that that would have been their long term holding place in prison. They were both happened to be in this jail at the same time. But yeah, I mean, it is wild. So to wrap up Osama al atari's story, he got out of prison in 2014, and the majority of the money that he borrowed has never been recovered. They recovered a couple of million, but they were like, where's the rest of the money? So two years later, in February of 2016, his family reported him missing to authorities. And there was a search. They ended up finding his body in his Chevy truck In a rundown industrial of Capitol heights, Maryland. He had been shot, and they were pretty sure that he had been murdered because his rolex was missing. He was 37 years old. His family said that after he was released from prison, he had been operating a construction materials business. And they also said it would be very strange that he wouldn't be wearing his Rolex. So that was suspicious. The prince George county police department Interviewed multiple people who had been in contact with him recently. And one of them was a man named Donald Clay. It came out that this guy who they weren't even sure how he was connected to Osama al Atari, but they knew that he knew him. And it seems like Donald Clay had become convinced that Osama had stashed millions of dollars in an offshore account, and then had concocted this plan to get him to give him the money. So Donald clay created his own offshore bank account, Then lured Osama al Atari to this empty industrial area of Capitol Heights, Maryland, on February 11, 2016, where he was waiting with two armed men. And they basically kidnapped Osama al Atari, Took him into an abandoned house, and attempted to coerce him into transferring the money. The police aren't really sure. Like, maybe he didn't have money. Maybe he did. And he refused to transfer it. But somewhere along the way, the plan went awry, and they ended up killing him. So all three men were arrested and charged. I don't know if they know for sure, but they're pretty sure that this was like an independent plan, that these guys knew Osama al Atari. They had heard that he had taken money from a bank. Everybody in the community really knew that. But it is interesting to note that, you know, years before, In a letter to the judge who ordered his early release, Osama al atari wrote that he was nervous about George Avila Torres potentially taking revenge on him. He said, he told me about plans to eliminate witnesses in his upcoming trial. Based on his past, I Knew he would not hesitate to kill me, but I continued to assist anyway because I knew it was the right thing to do. At this point, Osama Al Atari had been a witness in the case to convict Georgia Vila Torres of Amanda Snell's murder. But the case and the trial for the double murder of the girls hadn't taken place yet. So, you know, you have to wonder, but I wasn't able to find anything to connect that.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay, so as far as we know, Donald Clay had no connection to Georgia Villa Torres, just an associate who thought he could get in on some of this money.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

So they never found it, and it's millions and millions of dollars, and Donald didn't get any of that. His plan didn't work, and he committed a horrific murder, and the money is still hidden.

[Hannah Smith]

So, you know, kind of a winding story. I thought it was really interesting how the dots all connected. Probably people have heard of Georgia Vila Torres potentially at this point because he is a serial killer, but I just really thought that it was interesting the way that Osama Al Atari's story connected with his. And he was imprisoned for stealing millions of dollars, but then helped to secure a conviction for a serial killer, whether or not he did it for his own gain or for the greater good, you know, you could debate that, but.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's something we come back to a lot in our interviews where we hear these heavy stories, and most people have good and bad. And maybe he did feel it was the right thing to do, in addition to knowing it would help him. And it sounds like Osama El Atak committed this financial fraud, and he sentenced to 12 years, but he found a way to lessen his sentence that I think he's right. It was the right thing to do.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So that is the story that I brought to tell you today.

[Pasha Eaton]

That story had so many moving parts, and I'm surprised I hadn't heard more about it. And it sounds like you came across a helpful FBI affidavit, but otherwise, people wouldn't talk to you either. And I guess it's just one of those things.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with an interview. If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can follow us on Instagram. Henife Podcast or blueskyenife Podcast.

[Hannah Smith]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith.

[Pasha Eaton]

And me, Patia Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breyfogel and Alexis Amorosi.

[Hannah Smith]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogel.

[Pasha Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Hannah Smith]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Pasha Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

[Hannah Smith]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer. Hey, Jenice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz.

[Pasha Eaton]

We're the hosts of Mind the Business Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio and Intuit QuickBooks. Catch up on seasons one and two.

[Howie Mandel]

And join us for a brand new.

[Pasha Eaton]

Season of the podcast as we talk to small business owners about how they manage and grow their businesses with the help of platforms like Intuit QuickBooks.

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Listen to mind the Business Small Business Success Stories on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

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