The Knife: Off Record – 112

Summary

The Knife: Off Record – Episode 112 Summary

Introduction

In Episode 112 of The Knife: A True Crime Podcast, hosts Hannah Smith and Pasha Eaton delve into the intricate and harrowing story of Chad Hauser, an international con man whose manipulative schemes have left numerous victims devastated. Released on June 12, 2025, this episode meticulously unpacks Hauser's deceptive tactics, the profound impact on his victims, and the ongoing efforts to bring him to justice.

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Sarah's Encounter with Chad Hauser

The narrative begins with Hannah recounting how she first learned about Chad Hauser through an email from a woman she refers to as Sarah. Sarah’s initial interaction with Hauser seemed innocuous; they met within the vibrant expat community in Portugal. Sarah describes Hauser as a seemingly affluent individual who hosted extravagant parties and claimed to have attended Yale University.

[02:00] Hannah Smith: "He had this penthouse that he was renting, and he would have these elaborate parties there with a lot of drugs and partying. And he also told her he went to Yale."

However, Sarah’s trust quickly turned into suspicion when Hauser asked her to cover unexpected costs for shipping her belongings and purchasing plane tickets, which later turned out to be fraudulent.

[03:07] Pasha Eaton: "He's really wealthy. That's what she knows about him. He's thrown these elaborate parties at his penthouse in Portugal, where she initially meets him."

Sarah eventually discovered a Facebook group filled with Hauser's victims, revealing that her experience was just a fraction of his extensive scams.

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Discovery of Chad Hauser's Scams

Upon realizing that Hauser was not who he claimed to be, Sarah’s search led her to a Facebook page dedicated to his victims, numbering almost 500 members. This revelation underscored the scale of Hauser's fraudulent activities, establishing him as a prolific con artist with a pattern of deceit and exploitation.

[04:16] Pasha Eaton: "But one of the people that she connected with through Facebook that she then connected me with is Chad's ex-wife, Jordana."

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Jordana Hauser's Detailed Testimony

The episode pivots to the compelling and distressing account of Jordana Hauser, Chad’s ex-wife, who provides an in-depth look into the manipulative dynamics of their relationship.

Background and Marriage

Jordana, an accomplished businesswoman from Hawaii, moved to Bali to marry Chad, drawn by his apparent wealth and sophistication. Their marriage was marked by lavish expenditures, including a $150,000 wedding and an opulent honeymoon across Europe.

[12:43] Jordana Hauser: "We rented Ferraris. We stayed at the St. Regis hotels. We went all throughout Rome, Italy, Positano, the Amalfi coast."

Red Flags and Manipulation

Despite the grandeur, subtle red flags began to surface. Chad exhibited controlling behaviors, such as restricting access to financial information and pressuring Jordana to sell her properties, ostensibly for better investments.

[11:25] Pasha Eaton: "But this predates postmates, so no excuses. You need forks, right?"

Financial Abuse and Control

Jordana entrusted Hauser with $350,000 from her investment account. Over time, she discovered that Hauser had been siphoning funds to support his lavish lifestyle and fraudulent ventures. Attempts to access her money were thwarted by Hauser's deceitful tactics, including providing fake bank statements.

[29:36] Jordana Hauser: "I think I paid for my wedding. I paid for my wedding dress. I paid for everything. And I didn't know I was paying for everything. So that's kind of when I realized that he was using all my money."

Violence and Isolation

As their financial situation deteriorated, Hauser's behavior became increasingly volatile and abusive. Jordana experienced physical and sexual assault, leading to further isolation from her support systems.

[31:11] Jordana Hauser: "Now I feel like I'm really stuck with this man. It was horrible."

Children's Abduction and Recovery

The situation escalated when Hauser abducted Jordana and Chad's children from Bali, leaving her desperate to recover them. With the assistance of the Association for the Recovery of Children (ARC) and international law enforcement, Jordana eventually regained custody of her children in June 2016.

[45:31] Hannah Smith: "According to our intelligence, Chad Hauser and his mother, Peggy Hauser, blazed a corruptible path through the United States and foreign countries, stealing money from individuals and institutions."

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Chad Hauser's Fraudulent Activities and Evasion

Further investigation into Chad Hauser revealed a pattern of fraudulent activities extending beyond personal relationships. Multiple civil lawsuits from 2015 accuse him of breaching contracts and committing fraud, often involving substantial sums of money and misrepresented assets.

[35:06] Pasha Eaton: "And then there's another lawsuit that comes into play in April of 2015. So I guess that predates this last one by a month, but Chad is alleged of owing more than $300,000. He's being accused of fraud."

Hauser's ability to evade legal consequences is attributed to his constant relocation, false identities, and the involvement of his mother, who appears complicit in his schemes.

[35:44] Hannah Smith: "He evaluated." (Context: Unclear Arrest Process)

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Community Awareness and Facebook Group

The Facebook group dedicated to Hauser's victims serves as a testament to the widespread impact of his scams. With nearly 500 members, the group shares stories of financial loss, emotional devastation, and the elusive nature of Hauser's operations.

[54:03] Pasha Eaton: "There's a ton of different people posting that he has defrauded them."

Notable interactions within the group include victims debunking Hauser’s fabricated backgrounds and exposing his false narratives.

[56:18] Hannah Smith: "We are really appreciative that Jordana spoke with us, and good to be aware that Chad is out there. He's still out there."

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Legal Actions and Current Status

Chad Hauser remains a fugitive with active warrants for his arrest in the United States. Despite arrests in places like Copenhagen, he has managed to evade long-term detention, continuing his pattern of deceit and financial exploitation.

[46:57] Hannah Smith: "But it's interesting that he was with his mother. So his biological mother, who had been in Texas, who I think Jordana had never met, but I'm not 100% sure."

Hauser's manipulation extends to his family, with his mother Peggy Hauser being implicated in his fraudulent endeavors.

[47:03] Hannah Smith: "Peggy Hauser was detained while Chad Hauser escaped apprehension."

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Notable Quotes

• Hannah Smith [02:00]: "He had this penthouse that he was renting, and he would have these elaborate parties there with a lot of drugs and partying."

• Pasha Eaton [03:29]: "But she later found out that he had way more victims and that this was like a small drop in the pool of what he had done."

• Jordana Hauser [31:06]: "But where am I going to go? What am I going to do? There's nowhere for me to go. I'm... I have no money."

• Jordana Hauser [50:59]: "He's a horrible human being. He's ruined a lot of people's lives. He ruined my life more than anybody."

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Conclusion

Episode 112 of The Knife: A True Crime Podcast offers a chilling exploration of Chad Hauser's manipulative and destructive behavior. Through the testimonies of victims like Sarah and Jordana Hauser, the episode sheds light on the intricate web of deceit spun by Hauser, the profound personal and financial devastation inflicted upon his victims, and the ongoing struggle to hold him accountable. The podcast underscores the importance of awareness and vigilance in identifying and protecting oneself from such pervasive fraudsters.

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Recommendations

Following the intense narrative of Chad Hauser, the hosts shared recommendations for other compelling true crime podcasts:

• In Her Defense: Chronicles the story of Helen Nasland, who was convicted of killing her abusive husband, featuring powerful interviews that explore the complexities of self-defense.

  [57:01] Pasha Eaton: "It makes you think. Like, you meet someone and you really have no idea what they're going through."

• Sea of Lies: Produced by CBC's Uncover, this series follows the recovery of a body from the ocean and the subsequent hunt for one of the world's most wanted criminals.

  [59:32] Hannah Smith: "A body is pulled from the ocean and a race against time to capture one of the world's most wanted criminals begins."

These recommendations provide listeners with further insights into intricate and thought-provoking true crime stories.

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This summary captures the essence of Episode 112 of The Knife: A True Crime Podcast, highlighting the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn by the hosts, Hannah Smith and Pasha Eaton.

Transcript

[Pasha Eaton]

This is exactly right. This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Hannah Smith]

Welcome to the Knife. I'm Hannah Smith.

[Pasha Eaton]

I'm Pasha Eaton.

[Hannah Smith]

Today I'm going to tell Patia a story about an international con man, and then we will have recommendations.

[Pasha Eaton]

Let's get into it.

[Hannah Smith]

So I first heard about this story through someone who emailed me and said that she had a story about a con man.

[Pasha Eaton]

I remember you telling me that someone had emailed. This was a while ago.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, yeah. And so, as we do, I set up a preliminary call just to sort of hear more about the story. So I talked with her on the phone for a bit. She didn't end up doing an interview. So I'm just gonna use a different name. We'll call her Sarah. But basically, she told me that she was working abroad in 2018. She was in Portugal, in Portu, and she was working there. She was kind of, like, going out and partying. There was an expat scene.

[Pasha Eaton]

How old was she?

[Hannah Smith]

20S or 30s. Had a job there, but would go out and was, like, part of the expat community through just meeting people. She met this guy named Chad, and they were friends for a year and a half. She didn't really know him that well. She said they kind of just, like, were in the same social scene together. The things that she knew about him was that he seemed to be very wealthy. He had this penthouse that he was renting, and he would have these elaborate parties there with, like, a lot of drugs and partying. And he. He also told her he went to Yale.

[Pasha Eaton]

Fancy.

[Hannah Smith]

And she was just kind of like, I don't know. I didn't think much about him. We were friends for a couple of years, and then she ended up moving to Hong Kong for a job. And then Covid hit, and she was, like, in a hotel room, quarantined for a couple of months just by herself. And she said that at that time, Chad ended up becoming kind of a good friend of hers. They would talk on the phone. He would check in with her. There was a weird thing where he. She had left some of her belongings in Portugal, and so he offered to ship them to her. He said, you know, I'll just cover the cost, and then you can reimburse me. And it ended up being, like, more money than she would have expected. And looking back now, she wonders if he maybe got a couple hundred dollars out of her. And then she had to fly home. She had to fly back to the States because of, I don't know, some visa paperwork. And somehow he said, well, I have points, or I can get you a really good deal on a flight. So he bought her a plane ticket, sent her the ticket, and then she reimbursed him. And when she got to the airport, she couldn't get on the plane. She thought that it was a problem with the airline. It turns out it was just a fake ticket.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay, so he's really wealthy. That's what she knows about him. He's thrown these elaborate parties at his penthouse in Portugal, where she initially meets him. They become long distance friends when she moves to Hong Kong for a job. Super wealthy guy needs to be reimbursed for shipping her some of her belongings, but then on the flip side, will generously get her a plane ticket with points.

[Hannah Smith]

Mm. Yeah. Okay. But she said around that time, a friend of hers in Portugal reached out to her and said something like, you know, Chad is not who he says that he is. And apparently she heard through the grapevine that he had left Portugal, sort of fled and left behind this enormous bill at that place he was renting. It was like $45,000 or something. So there's a story there, but it's like, okay, so she lost maybe less than $1,000. She lost a couple hundred dollars. And then she had this really big headache at the airport. It's not a huge scam, but what she told me was that she later found out that he had way more victims and that this was like a small drop in the pool of what he had done.

[Pasha Eaton]

How did she find out about all of his other scams? I mean, she'd moved away from Portugal by that point.

[Hannah Smith]

She Googled him, and she found this Facebook page that's dedicated to his victims. When she found it, she said There were like 200 people in this group. Oh, my gosh. But one of the people that she connected with through Facebook that she then connected me with is Chad's ex wife, Jordana.

[Pasha Eaton]

He scammed her, too.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And her story is much more involved and spans multiple years. And so we did an interview with Jordana, but ultimately, for a couple of reasons, we're not going to use all of the tape for a full interview. There is a legal aspect to her story that we actually cannot talk about legally, so I'll explain that later. But because of that, we're going to tell the story, but not with the full interview. We will play clips from the conversation with Jordana.

[Pasha Eaton]

We'll tell you as much as we can.

[Hannah Smith]

We'll tell you as much as we can. That's Right. So Jordana's story starts. She grew up in Hawaii. She calls herself an island girl. She loves living on an island. She ended up moving to LA in her early adulthood. 20s. She studied acting. She got some jobs. She actually made some money. She was a stunt woman for a while, which is such an interesting career, but she said she didn't really love it. She met and married her first husband, Pete, and he was living in Bali, Indonesia, and this was the kind of life that she wanted. She was like, LA is too busy for me. I want, like, a more island life. So she moved there, they got married, they had a daughter in 2009. And here's Jordana sold everything I owned.

[Jordana Hauser]

And at that time, I'd saved up a lot of money from the movie business and put my money in stocks and all that kind of stuff. So I had a good chunk of money. We opened up the first surf shop ever in Uluwatu. And my business was pretty lucrative. I had five houses that I owned, and things were going pretty well, but Pete started cheating on me with his second wife or whatever in Sumbawa. So. And that was about when my daughter was about one, found that out. And so things became pretty rocky at that point.

[Pasha Eaton]

Five houses, very successful surf shop.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Good for her.

[Hannah Smith]

She's doing well.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

You know, but then her marriage ends and she has a child. But she is sort of, you know, newly single, and she starts going out and meeting people and through friends of friends. She's at a bar one night and she meets this guy Chad in Bali, and she describes him as very preppy. He really stood out. She hung out with mostly surfers. And Chad walks into the bar, he's wearing Ralph Lauren polo shirts and is buying everybody a round of shots and is loud and sort of has that kind of frat boy energy to him.

[Pasha Eaton]

I would say love it, but no.

[Hannah Smith]

So she's kind of like, who is this guy? But then she finds out that he's actually living in Singapore, coming to Bali for business, and he starts to rent some of her properties when he's there. Through that, she gets to know him. And she had to come over to one of the houses to deliver something, one point. And they sat down and hung out and talked for hours. And she said that her opinion of him really shifted at that point. He seemed to be a very cultured, educated person. He said that he grew up in San Francisco, that he went to Dartmouth, and that he. He loved to travel and he could speak multiple languages. They talked about wine. He seemed to have, like, a pretty extensive knowledge about wine.

[Pasha Eaton]

So in Jordana's story, he went to Dartmouth. In Sarah's story, he went to Yale. He's been very busy.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, spoiler alert. This might not be true. Right? So she's kind of like, okay, actually, he seems really cool, and they become friends. A few months later, she tells him she's going to Thailand on a business trip.

[Jordana Hauser]

And I remember telling him that I was going to fly out to Chiang Mai. And he said, wow, well, I'm going to be out that way, too. I'll meet you. We'll do lunch. And I was like, oh, okay, that sounds cool. So I flew into Chiang Mai and he said that he was going to meet me at the airport. I thought, okay. So I flew into Chiang Mai and he met me at the airport, and he tried to kiss me. And I was like, no, this is not what we're doing. It's like that. And he got really weird, and we ended up going to lunch, and he was just acting really, really strange, I guess, because I didn't kiss him and stuff. And so I was like, what's going on? And he was like, nothing, nothing, nothing. And then he basically told me that he was in love with me and he wanted to marry me. And if I was going to say no, he was never going to talk to me again. And I kind of. At this point, I was like, well, maybe I'll just go for it. This guy's amazing. He has money, he's smart, he's intelligent.

[Pasha Eaton]

I actually kind of love this from Jordana because it's like, I think no one in, like, their most grounded version of themselves could be drawn in by something like that. But she had been through so much right now. She said her first husband, Pete, was cheating on her when she had a one year old that ends in divorce. You know, now she's flying in somewhere for business, and this guy likes her enough that he wants to meet her at the airport. Very romantic, Very romantic. Until she says, no, I don't want to kiss you, and he freaks out. But then it's like, well, here's this guy who does really like me, and I'm pushing him away. I mean, he seems successful. If you have a daughter, I could see why you would be drawn to someone who maybe can offer some stability.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, totally. The situation can be read multiple ways. Right. In hindsight, it feels pretty manipulative, but I can. I'm totally with you. I can see how that would feel attractive. He's this guy who has, you know, his life together and is, you know, very clear about what he wants, which can be really attractive.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And sounds super different from her first husband who was like, surfer bro.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Very different. Yeah. So she jumps in, they start dating, and according to Jordana, things move very quickly. He ends up moving to Bali and they get a place together. She did. See, before he made the official move, she went to visit him where he was living in Singapore. And this was a bit of a red flag for her. He was living in this really big house, but there was hardly anything in it. She was like, they didn't have a fork. She had a roommate. So she questioned him about it, but he had a way to explain it away. He was like, well, we're bachelors and we're working all the time, and I never really meant to live here long term, so it's just been a temporary thing.

[Pasha Eaton]

I actually have a close friend who's ultra successful, and in one of his houses, he was like, I don't need any dishes. I'm just going to postmates everything. I mean, the way that I looked at him in that moment, I probably looked like I saw a ghost.

[Hannah Smith]

But this.

[Pasha Eaton]

This predates postmates, so no excuses. You need forks, right?

[Hannah Smith]

I guess he probably was eating out all the time, but, yeah, why not have some forks? It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Pasha Eaton]

You got to have at least one fork.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes. At least one fork per person who's living in the house.

[Pasha Eaton]

And let that be the standard.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes. But, you know. Yeah, okay, cool. You're a bachelor. Like, it's a little bit of a red flag, but not a big red flag. Right. She also meets his colleagues. He's working for a hedge fund in Singapore for a person who Jordana described as a billionaire, very successful. And, you know, she meets Chad's co workers, so she knows that he does have a job. And his coworkers seem very similar to him. You know, people with really good and that are wealthy. So all of it's checking out. He moves to Bali. They get a place together, and Chad is paying the bills. He's paying for rent, all the bills, everything. But he's pressuring Jordana to escalate their relationship very quickly.

[Jordana Hauser]

He really wanted to have a kid. I did not want any other kids. I wanted just one daughter, and that's about it. And he really wanted a kid of his own, so he really was pressing that issue. I ended up getting pregnant, and we had this elaborate wedding at the Astana, and it was the nicest place in Bali at the time. So we flew out all my friends from LA and Hawaii. My stepmom came, my brother, and we put them up in villas. And I think we spent almost $150,000 on this crazy, elaborate wedding. I had a Dolce Gabbana dress. It was just. It was huge.

[Pasha Eaton]

I can 100% say my wedding did not cost $150,000. Wow. Okay. So kind of similarly to the way he acted at the airport, it was like, if we don't have a kid, then I'm gonna blow this up. If we don't have this big wedding, I'm gonna blow this up.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. A lot of pressure to move quickly, but also throwing her this really elaborate, beautiful wedding of her dreams. You know, she focuses on planning the wedding, but there is another red flag that happens. So she invites her family, he invites his family, but he tells her, well, my dad isn't gonna come to the wedding because I borrowed some money from him and haven't paid it back yet. $30,000. Sort of a drop in the bucket if you're paying 150k for a wedding.

[Pasha Eaton]

Totally. Like, if I'm the dad in that situation, I'm irritated too.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Like, why did you borrow 30 grand if you had that kind of money to throw at a wedding?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And he says, I need to pay him back so he'll come to the wedding. But my money's all tied up right now, so can I borrow some money from you?

[Pasha Eaton]

And they're married anyway, so, like, why wouldn't she?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And she has the money. She has had this successful business in Bali, and so she agrees and she gives him $30,000 to pay to his dad so that his dad will come to the wedding. You know, before they got married as well, Chad had convinced her to sell off a lot of her properties that she was renting out. And he presented himself as this guy who really understood finances. And he advised her, you need to get out of this business, sell them off, and put that money in an investment account so that it can grow. So she did. She said she had about $350,000, which was like the extent of everything she'd worked for in her life. All that work in that she'd made money and then she'd built this business in Bali. Everything that she had still maintained throughout her divorce. So this was her whole life's work. And so she put it into an investment account so they get married. She said that meeting his family was a little odd. They were just a little bit tight lipped. They didn't seem that close to Chad. She said at one point, his mom and sister were walking around their home and they had a hu. With like, a security guard and a chef. She said, even with, like, the weight of the US Dollar, it doesn't matter. Like, it was still.

[Pasha Eaton]

Clearly, it's opulent.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes, yes. And she said that Chad's mom and sister were sort of walking around, like, looking at things, sort of like they looked shocked or amazed. And this was like, a little confusing to Jordana because she was thinking, well, you guys are the wealthy ones. This is where the money's coming from. But, okay, cool. Like, I don't know, you have some personal stuff with your son, it's fine. So they get married, and then he says, let's go to Europe for a honeymoon. And they plan this three month long European honeymoon. And it is lavish.

[Jordana Hauser]

And we rented Ferraris. We had two Ferraris. We had a red Ferrari and a black Ferrari. We stayed at the St. Regis hotels. We stayed in presidential suites. We went all throughout Rome, Italy, Positano, the Amalfi coast. I mean, we just traveled forever. And we stayed in the nicest home. It was amazing trip. It was just like, oh, my God, this is amazing. We're. I'm living the dream. I'm like, driving, driving Ferraris. We're sitting in all these fancy places. We were shopping. I mean, I just bought Gucci, everything. And I thought, God, this is. I don't have to work anymore. This is. This man's amazing. He speaks all these different languages. And he did, like, everywhere we went. He could speak a little French, he could speak a little German. He spoke a little Italian. He spoke Portuguese almost fluently. So that was just like, wow, amazing. Everywhere we went, he could speak a little bit of everything. So it was just a lot of fun.

[Pasha Eaton]

It sounds fun.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And he can actually speak these languages.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay. But now I'm thinking, like, because we know a little bit, like, where this is headed. I don't speak any of those languages, so someone could easily fool me. And now I'm curious. Does he really speak all those languages?

[Hannah Smith]

It's a very good question, actually. Okay, quick little detour. It reminds me of this moment whenever we were doing the cat cult story. So the cat cult story is like, this cult story. This woman, Cheryl Ruthven, ran this cult. And part of her whole ideology was that she wanted her followers to adopt a lot of cats. Thus we get them into heaven, et cetera. But one of the things that she did was she would take her followers on these Sort of missionary trips to Europe. But really, it seemed like she just wanted to travel. Right. She'd always be like, we have to go to Italy because there's some spiritual thing happening there. But then they would just sort of be traveling and looking at art and eating good food. And someone was telling me they went to this church with her in Italy, and she was, like, really, like, talking about how there were demons there. She was fighting them. And this person came up and was speaking to her in Italian. And Cheryl started speaking back. She does not speak Italian. No, she was speaking gibberish. And then the person was, like, speaking back to her in Italian, and she was saying something back. And then they finally left. And the person I was interviewing was like. I could tell by the way the interaction happened that she wasn't speaking Italian, and the person was trying to understand what language she was speaking and was confused. But the way that she was told, her followers was like, God gave me the gift to speak to this person. And we were battling spiritually or whatever.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, this was a demon she was fighting off.

[Hannah Smith]

She was. Yeah, it was like some sort of spiritual battle, actually.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. I remember this from the tape. That was so long ago.

[Hannah Smith]

But if you're someone who wasn't really, like, fully paying attention and you don't know Italian, you could have seen that and thought, oh, well, she knows Italian.

[Pasha Eaton]

Or, you know, you're also in so deep at that point. You're in Italy with her. You have to believe.

[Hannah Smith]

You're believing.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

So I do wonder, now that you bring that up, it's like, maybe something like this is happening. Is he really speaking German? I don't know. Maybe he is, maybe he's not. But she certainly believed that he was. Right. Right.

[Pasha Eaton]

And I also think. I mean, similar to the story you just told about Cheryl Ruthven in Italy, it's like she's loving this trip. And I think that we can all relate to. Like, if you're enjoying your life, you don't want to start believing that it's not real. You want to just enjoy it.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, for sure. Yeah. She has met a man who is wealthy and committed to her and loves her and threw her this elaborate wedding and is now taking her to Europe for three months. Yeah, like, that's something she wants to believe in. I asked her who was paying for this trip, and she was like, well, it was a mix. You know, sometimes he would pay in cash for things. Sometimes he would ask me to put things on my credit card. She said the Ferrari rental went on her credit card.

[Pasha Eaton]

If a Ferrari rental was going on my credit card, I would say we can have one Ferrari. We don't need two different colors.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. It'd be like, I don't know.

[Pasha Eaton]

And by the way, can we just take the bus?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Public transport. Yeah. I think it's that thing of. She was like, he just has money. Rich people, they're sort of like, oh, will you cover this, and I'll get you back? It seemed like he gave off this vibe of, I'm not really concerned about it, because obviously I pay you back because I have so much money. And she said that he would pay her back. Sometimes he would pay her credit card statements as well. So she just sort of felt like, okay, I'm gonna trust him with all of this. He's got it under control. Sometimes I might have to put something on my credit card, but no big deal.

[Pasha Eaton]

They're married.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Then about four months after they get married, so they've been in Europe for three months. They come back. Her daughter needs to go back to the US For a medical procedure. So Jordana goes back to the US with her daughter. She's pregnant. And essentially, Chad ends up telling her, like, I think we should just move back to the U.S. like, don't come back to Bali. We need to move back to the US I have business there. Let's just go. So she says, okay, and asks him how much they can afford in rent. She's like, I'll start looking for a place. He says, $10,000 a month. So they find a house in Sausalito and move in. And she said, it is a very nice house. They're renting it. And. And, you know, he outfits the house. They got furniture. They ship a bunch of stuff from Bali, which is expensive. They have two cars, a BMW and a Range Rover. And at this point, something happens that makes Jordana start to question things.

[Jordana Hauser]

This is when I started finding out about Chad. When Hertz came to take the cars away from our house, which I thought we owned the cars. So that's when I started finding out that we didn't own the cars. And then I started questioning him, and he said, well, I gotta rent these cars, because we don't really have the money to buy cars right now. We don't know if we're gonna stay here. And I'm renting the cars because I have to look the piece. Because he was gonna open an investment company in San Francisco. And he always said that if I don't have a fancy house and if I don't have fancy cars, then nobody's going to invest in my company. And I thought, okay, well, you're spending like $3,000 a month for these cars. I was like, why can't you just buy a car instead of spending, like, three to $4,000 a month for these cars? It doesn't make sense. You know, like, all this stuff doesn't make sense.

[Pasha Eaton]

I mean, she's right. It doesn't make any sense. It's also like thinking that she was pregnant and already had one child she was caring for. That means you are just so busy. Like, you can wake up and start thinking about all these questions that are coming up for you about your life and your husband's choices. But then you've got to go take care of your kid and you're pregnant, you're going to a bunch of appointments. You're trying to figure out your living situation. It's like your world is spinning. You don't have time to just sit down and, like, be a sleuth about it.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, she's also figuring out custody situation with her daughter because her daughter's father is still in Bali. So they're sort of trying to figure that out. She has so much going on. And she said, Chad just kind of always had, again, a way to talk about things and explain things to her. She did say, when Hertz came to get the cars, Chad wasn't home. And Jordana asked them what was going on, and they said, well, he hasn't paid for over three months on these. So that was alarming to her. And then, you know, she started to think about what he was spending money on. He had rented this office space in downtown San Francisco to get his investment company going. She had visited the office, and she knew it was an expensive part of town, and he had outfitted it with all new computers. He had hired his friends. She said he took some of the people of the company out to a holiday party at this very expensive restaurant. And the bill was like $5,000. So she was just thinking, why are you spending all this money when you're just getting your company going? So the questions started to add up. And, you know, she didn't know Chad's family very well, but she knew that his sister lived in Oakland. So at this point, she decided that she needed to make contact and try to get some answers.

[Jordana Hauser]

And I just called her one day and I said, hillary, I need to talk to you about something. Can you meet me? And I just started telling her all kinds of stuff about Chad. You know, he went to Dartmouth. And she confirmed that he never went to Dartmouth. He went to Chatsworth in Southern California for like, a month or something. Never graduated college. And I said, well, he's from San Francisco. And she goes, no, we're from Texas. And I was like, okay. And just. I think there were some other things, too. And she just basically confirmed with me. I remember she said to me, she goes, you gotta get away from him. Wow. Everything he told me was a lie. I didn't know. I was always kind of scared of Chad, too, because he was just so. Every time I questioned him about something, he would get really defensive. And then he always had a good answer, but he was just really get really angry that I questioned him or asked him anything. He always kind of kept me down and just made me just. He didn't want me to know anything about him. I couldn't even get the computers at home. He changed the passwords constantly to the computers, which I always thought was weird. I just couldn't know anything about his life. He was gone constantly. I was at home by myself, like, a lot. And then we started having financial problems with rent. We couldn't make rent.

[Pasha Eaton]

That's so strange, because she had met his sister at the wedding. It's like I can remember the first time I met my now husband's family. You know, you make small talk. I don't know. I guess I'm surprised that more didn't come up at the wedding. But if his family was in where they thought everything was weird, they probably wouldn't talk to her too much or give her too much information, because you might feel like, well, this is a wedding. I don't want to start a problem here.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. I also wonder if maybe they thought that she was in on it.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

If he had a history of doing things like this, she didn't go into detail about that. But the fact that he owed his dad $30,000, you have to think there was something going on. I wonder if they thought maybe she's part of this. I don't know. Right.

[Pasha Eaton]

Because when you're on the outside of something, it's like, how could you not know?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, exactly. So this is obviously a horrible situation that Jordana finds herself in. Especially terrifying. Yeah. She's like, eight months pregnant at this point, and they're married, and she's worried, but she doesn't know what to do. She calls her best friend, but her best friend is kind of like, well, I don't know what to do. Maybe there's an explanation for this. Another thing that's happened that is a trend in a lot of controlling relationships is that he's kind of isolated her from her family and from a lot of her support system. Some of that is because she said some people in her family really didn't like him. So then that kind of created some distance she had, when they first moved back to the States, planned on going out and getting a job. And he strongly advised her against it, pretty forcefully, saying, that will make me look really bad. If you start going out and getting a job, it's going to look like I don't have all this money to support you. Plus, you're pregnant. So she sort of agreed. So she doesn't have a job, she doesn't have a support system, and she.

[Pasha Eaton]

Has no choice but to just trust him. Right now, she's eight months pregnant. What's she going to do?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, he's really becoming more and more controlling, like she said, with the computer password and stuff. But, you know, she has a safety net. That $350,000 that she put into an investment account that she's continuing to get statements on it, and it's accruing money. And so she has bigger concerns about Chad. But she's thinking, we need to address the current problems, which is that we're behind on rent, so let's get out of debt. So she tells Chad, okay, look, why don't we dip into my money and we can pay our back rent and we'll at least just, like, get ahead of things until your company takes off. And that is when he looks at her and reveals that there is no more money.

[Pasha Eaton]

Whoa. That's so scary.

[Jordana Hauser]

Finding out basically, that I don't have any money. Well, what I think is, is that he had access to my bank account. I think I paid for my wedding. I think I paid for the honeymoon. I paid for my wedding dress. I paid for ring. I paid for everything. And I didn't know I was paying for everything. So that's kind of when I realized that he was using all my money to do everything that we were doing.

[Pasha Eaton]

But she was getting statements, and he worked at the hedge fund where he said he had invested her money.

[Hannah Smith]

It's a little strange. She put the money in a bank account in a bank in Bali. He went with her to set that account up, and she didn't think that he had access to it. She doesn't know how he did this. She thinks that maybe he bribed someone working at the bank. He somehow got involved and was able to send her Fake statements while he actually took all the money out and was just using it.

[Pasha Eaton]

And by now, she's somewhat isolated from her friends and family, who never really thought highly of Chad, and his own family is telling her to get away from him. But she just moved, and she's about to have a baby. And where's she gonna go if she doesn't have any money? I mean, I think she said exactly that. It's like, she's not gonna go sign another lease.

[Hannah Smith]

She can't.

[Pasha Eaton]

No.

[Hannah Smith]

She doesn't have a job. She doesn't have income. She doesn't have any money.

[Jordana Hauser]

But where am I going to go? What am I going to do? There's nowhere for me to go. I'm. You know, I'm. I have no money. I. Now I feel like I'm really stuck with this man. It was horrible. And that's when I really became really, really. I just remember living with him and just feeling. I mean, the entire time like I was just living in this bubble in my head, and I was just walking around like I was just a zombie. I wasn't even, like, a real person. I was just. I remember just being foggy and waking up and felt like I was living. Not even in a movie. I mean, movie. You're like. Even. Like, there's a clear picture. I was just a foggy mess.

[Hannah Smith]

And what she ends up finding out is that back when she was living in Bali, Chad had met some of her mutual friends, and through them, had found out that she was recently single from her husband and that she had all these businesses. And she believes that. Then he started intentionally renting her properties in order to get to know her and then pursue her romantically for this intention.

[Pasha Eaton]

So she was, like, targeted. Targeted by someone that she thought was, like, falling in love with her.

[Hannah Smith]

Mm. Yeah. But she doesn't really have a choice of what to do right now because she's giving birth to her child. She goes into the hospital. Chad is nowhere to be seen. He's out partying with his friends, according to her. She said he showed up a couple of days later drunk, and the next months are a blur for her. She is just trying to survive, you know, with this newborn. He's, again, not around. She doesn't know what he's doing. He's out in San Francisco hobnobbing with people. And a few months go by, I think she said, like, six months to where she finally kind of was out of that, like, haze of having a newborn baby and just thought, I have to get out of I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'll just go stay on a friend's couch or something. She packs up. I think her daughter was with her dad at this point. And she's leaving, and Chad comes home, confronts her, and it's not a good situation. He assaults her. He sexually assaults her. And she'll later learn that she has gotten pregnant again from that.

[Pasha Eaton]

And this is all taking place still in California. Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And she's starting to realize that he's incredibly violent and dangerous. There's another incident in which he's physically violent, and she does call the police, and he's arrested on domestic violence charges. Ultimately, she decides not to press charges, you know, which is, I think, understandable. It's one of those things that's hard to sort of get from the outside, but from different people we've talked to in the context of everything that she's going through mentally and physically at this time is just where her head was at. She was worried that if she pressed charges, then he wouldn't be able to help her out financially. He's her only lifeline at this point, even though he's abusing her. It's a complicated, horrible situation that she's in.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, she needs to get the money back that he took from her to survive.

[Hannah Smith]

Mm. But at this point, you know, they're still living in these. This huge home that's like $10,000 a month, and they're late on their payments. The electricity is being turned off because Chad's not paying the bills. And then she finds out that he's starting to get sued by people in the area. So we actually looked into that, and there are multiple civil lawsuits against him from that period of time, early 2015, when he was still living in the Bay Area.

[Pasha Eaton]

So the first lawsuit, it looks like it was filed in 2015. In May of 2015, the plaintiff who's suing Chadwick Hauser is. I might be pronouncing this wrong. Rothgar Investments Ltd. And it says, you know, breach of contract. And we couldn't find much else about it, but that's in May of 2015. And so there's another lawsuit that comes into play in April of 2015. So I guess that predates this last one by a month, but Chad is alleged of owing more than $300,000. He's being accused of fraud.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Wow. And it looks like the person who filed this complaint is saying that he loaned Chad $300,000 and that Chad said he owned a condo in San Francisco. And he used that to secure the loan, which he did not. And also seems like he just didn't pay this money back. But you can assume, based on the information that Jordana gave, that he was starting this investment company, that he was starting to get all of these investments or loans from people but not paying anyone back.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, it sounds like it was more Ponzi scheme, esque, like, okay, I'm going to tell Jordana, my wife, that I've invested her life savings. It's growing since I've invested it so well. I'm going to send her fake statements, and in the meantime, I'm going to tell this guy to give me $300,000 as a loan and that I have all of these assets. And then he's spending all of it and runs out, can't find someone else to. Fraud, I guess. And then it, of course, crumbles.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So all of this is going down and, you know, his scams are catching up to him, and then they find out they're getting evicted from their home. And so this is another point in the story where it's one of those things that I think Jordana felt like she didn't have any options, but he basically said, we're moving back to Bali. She's pregnant again. So she goes, they move back to Bali.

[Pasha Eaton]

She also does have some community in Bali.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes.

[Pasha Eaton]

So at least, you know, she has friends there. And her eldest daughter's father still lives there.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So they move back. She has her second child with Chad, who is also a son, but things just get progressively worse. And essentially, Chad confiscates both of their children's passports and refuses to let Jordana have access to them. So eventually things get so bad that they do end up splitting up. But this is after an incident in which he's tried to run her over with a car, and she ends up in the hospital. I mean, this is a horrible, violent man. And she doesn't really understand why. But he finally agrees to sort of let her go, let her move out and get her own apartment. He offers to help pay for it, which is in contrast to previously when she tried to leave him. He had told her things like, you'll never be able to leave me. So she doesn't really understand why, but she is now trying to figure out a plan. You know, she is living in her own apartment. They're sharing custody of the sons, and she doesn't have access to her children's passports.

[Jordana Hauser]

I think it was just a control thing of trying to control because I ended up finding a place to live, and Chad decided that we were going to split the kids. So I. At that point, I was at his mercy. I didn't really know what I was going to do. I wasn't going to leave my kids in Indonesia. I wasn't going to live my kids with him. And I thought, well, if I can get my own place. And Chad said, well, I'll help you find a place, you know, and I'll help pay for the rent and all that kind of stuff. Unbeknownst to me, he had found another girl, a girl that he wanted to be with. He ended up ripping her off, too. So that was. He wanted me out of the picture so he could go on to his next victim. So that was his thing.

[Pasha Eaton]

That has to just be so confusing, because you're relieved that, for whatever reason, he's allowing you to live in your own space, but having to, like, keep things. I mean, peaceful's the wrong word, but, like, your share custody of your sons.

[Hannah Smith]

Mm.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. She's not gonna leave her kids in Indonesia. You know, she might never see them again.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And. And she's trying to sort of play this horrible game of not angering him to both protect herself and her children while also trying to figure out how does she get out of this. And she's also in a foreign country. She knows people in Bali, but it's not the same as being in the US where she understands sort of the laws or whatever. There's different there. But she does hatch a plan. She needs to get passports for her sons. She ends up sort of figuring out where these passports are. And the way that she describes going about trying to get them up to date is a little bit like, she contacts this guy. I don't know how she's met this guy. Right. She calls him a corrupt cop guy, but he claims he can help her get the passports, get them updated. She specifically tells him, do not tell Chad any of this. Keep this between us.

[Jordana Hauser]

I went to him and I told him that, you know, Chad was a con artist, and I'm paying for the passports. You need to give them to me. Please do not give them to Chad. Give them back to me, because they had to go to, like, the embassy in Jakarta and all that kind of stuff to get them up to date. So, anyways, I remember dropping the boys off with Chad, and I remember thinking, I might not ever see my kids again. I remember thinking that just like, I think I'm making the biggest mistake of my life right now. He had him for the week. And he was supposed to drop them off to me that next weekend and stuff, and supposed to be there at my house at, like, 11. Ends up being, like, noon. And he's like, oh, there's a lot of traffic. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, one o' clock comes. Oh, we decided to have lunch. Goes on and on and on. And then it just went down to, like, 3, 4, 5, 6. And I never heard from him. And I just knew that he got the passports and tricked me. And the next morning, I went up to. I got up at, like, 6 o' clock in the morning. I took my car and I drove to the Indonesian. The Dembitar Airport and drove all the way up to the top of the parking where nobody parks. And that's where his car was parked with the boys car seats in it. And he was gone. So he got the passports. He paid more money for the passports to the guy.

[Pasha Eaton]

So the person that Jordana went to for help, like, totally desperate, just turned around and basically outed her whole plan to Chad, who then kidnaps, really, the boys and leaves the country without asking their mom.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

I cannot even comprehend what that would feel like as a mother. I mean, anyone, I think, can see how traumatizing that would be, especially because, like, she has no means. He's her source of income.

[Hannah Smith]

Mm. And again, she's in a foreign country, and he's left the country, she assumes. But he could be anywhere in the world. Yeah, it's horrible. She said that she basically ended up flying back to the States to LA and staying on a friend's couch. She's, you know, frantically calling him, trying to get a hold of, trying to get any information. Her kids are 2 and 1 at this point. She said that she heard nothing from him for three months. For three months. She had no idea.

[Pasha Eaton]

So she goes back to the U.S. i mean, who do you call? Like, do you call the police? Do you call the FBI? I mean, what do you do in that situation? They're taken from Bali, but they were born in the US and she has another daughter whose dad is in Bali. So she's back and forth. I mean, that's just like, chaos.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. She said she made a report with lapd. She was in contact with Interpol.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay. I mean, that seems like the right steps to take, but.

[Hannah Smith]

But then it's sort of like they're like, cool, we'll take the report. So then she starts just doing whatever she can. She makes Facebook posts. She's trying to spread the word she at one point goes up to the Bay Area where Chad's parents are, Chad's dad and stepmom are, and is like posting pictures around everywhere of her kids and of Chad just to try to get them to sort of pay attention to her and get invol. Literally, she said she's not sleeping. She's trying everything that she can. So this is where we get to the point of the story where we can't really say a lot legally, but essentially she's doing everything that she can, going through all of the channels reporting nothing is happening. She's desperate. So her friend says, well, I know this guy through film and tv, the actor Basil Boz. I'm just looking at his website. Best known for his role on NBC's the Blacklist. I've never seen that he's an actor. He's done a lot of things, but yes, he's an actor. And he is one of the founding members of this organization called association for the Recovery of Children. And so her friend puts Jordana in touch, and they end up taking on Jordana's case. Now, we can't say anything about that because I was in contact with them and Jordana signed an NDA. They're very secretive, I guess, about their organization.

[Pasha Eaton]

You told me a little bit about this. So Jordana tells this story on tape, and then we like just our normal process. You reach out to this person and say, hey, can you tell me about this story I heard and your perspective on it? And then you hear back, yeah, they.

[Hannah Smith]

Did not want to talk. They basically said, don't use that tape because we are litigious. So I said, okay, we won't. So we are not going to talk about any of the details. There's probably a lot that we don't even know. Jordana didn't tell us all of the details, but just to be safe, we're not going to go into any of them. But what I will do is, you know, on their website, they do have some of their missions listed with photos, and Jordana is actually on there. So because it's on their website, I can read it because it's public information. It's a picture of Jordana and her two kids. Hauser Boys 2016, Europe. It says, according to our intelligence, Chad Hauser and his mother, Peggy Hauser, blazed a corruptible path through the United States and foreign countries, stealing money from individuals and institutions. In Febr of 2016, they illegally abducted Harrison, age 2, and Pierce, age 1, from their legal custodial garden. Mother Jordana Hauser in a joint operation between ARC association for the Recovery of Children and the Swiss police. The children were recovered on June 10, 2016. Peggy Houser was detained while Chad Houser escaped apprehension. A warrant for Chad and Peggy Hauser's arrest is currently in effect in the US Wow.

[Pasha Eaton]

I wonder if it. Is it still in effect?

[Hannah Smith]

I think so, yeah. Jordana said that if Chad comes back to the US at this point, he'll be arrested.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

But it's interesting that he was with his mother. So his biological mother, who had been in Texas, who I think Jordana had never met, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Pasha Eaton]

She met the stepmom.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes. Was with him in Europe with these kids that he had kidnapped. So it sounds like his mother was kind of part of this whole scheme.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow, that is so scary. Especially because, like, as a mother, how could you do that? How could you not say, like, you might not like your ex wife, you might not get along, but you can't take her kids from her and leave the country and not say anything and.

[Hannah Smith]

Not tell her if they're okay, anything for months.

[Pasha Eaton]

So ARK is just this organization that is not associated with any government agency, but they have former CIA, FBI people working for them to help recover children in the cases of parental abduction or trafficking.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. So that's what happened. So she did get her children back.

[Jordana Hauser]

I know a lot more than I knew then. I pretty much know a lot of what he does. So I've had probably a good in, I mean, the thousands, for sure, of people that have shared. For some reason, after I recovered my children and kind of went back to Oregon and all that kind of stuff, I still would get. I would get tons. We had a website up about Chad. I never did the website. Everybody thinks I did, but there was a website about Chad. So when you googled Chad, it would come up with all of his schemes and all that kind of stuff. It ended up going down for some reason, I think Chad figured out about it or something. But I would get a lot of emails and Facebook messengers of all these stories of all these people that Chad had ripped off. And they wanted to know kind of like, or is this real? Or, you know, we were friends. Why would he do this to me? And, you know, we. We. We went skiing together. We did. We went to Puerto Rico together and all this stuff. And he was my friend. And I mean, tons. It was almost like three a day for like years that people would just like, I'm like, you're never getting your money back. He's not your friend. This is what he does. You know, it's just. I was a target. Everybody's a target. He's never had one friend in his entire life. You know, his family, it's not close with anybody. It's funny because I never knew what a sociopath was before and what I. And to try to understand it, I remember the lapd, the detective there, he was like, you're never going to understand it because you're not. That. You can never understand it because you're not like somebody that goes down the street and is a serial killer and just goes. Kills random women just for fun. That's pretty much what Chad does. He goes and ruins your life for fun. He doesn't care that you're going to be homeless. It's just what he does. He doesn't think about what we think about, you know, like, oh, my God, this is going to be Jordana and her poor kids, you know? No, there's nothing. He doesn't give a shit about his kids. I'm close with his family. I mean, we were just out in San Francisco and I just saw his real dad and his stepmom, which I'm actually really close with him. He's known where I'm. Where I'm at. All this time, he's never reached out and send a card. He could. He could send it to his dad, his dad could send it to the boys. I mean, he's never, ever reached out to do anything. He does not care about anything. And I don't know why he took the kids. I think it was a ploy to. I think he told everybody that I was dead, you know, and like, I think it was like another con or these poor kids, you know, I'm dad by my. I don't know. I don't really know. I don't even question it anymore because I don't give a crap about that guy anymore at all. He's a horrible human being. He's ruined a lot of people's lives. He ruined. I say he ruined my life more than anybody because I was not rich and a hedge fund person or anything. I worked really hard to have what I had, and that was all I had. And it took me about. I have my own business now, but took me a good 10 years to get back on my feet. I mean, I was literally really dying for a lot of years.

[Pasha Eaton]

That's interesting that she's now close with his father and stepmother. I mean, that for me, really, like, brings into focus how obvious it is that what he's doing is malicious. If his own father is like, yeah, this guy's no good, and we're on your side here.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And they want to be part of their grandson's lives, and they are. And so that's a nice part of the story that they have been able to connect. And she also said that she does feel some comfort that legally he's not allowed to come back into the U.S. so there's some level of safety there. But what a saga that she had to go through.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. Wow. And so I checked out this Facebook page.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Okay, so tell me about the Facebook page.

[Pasha Eaton]

So there's a ton of different people posting that he has defrauded them. One woman, Montana Burnett, looks like she lives in Toronto. And this is a public Facebook page. Anyone can access it. Says that he claimed to her to own multiple properties, I think in France. She posted a screenshot reaching out to maybe a realtor or someone that he said he was associated with. And the person responds, never heard about this person. Thanks.

[Hannah Smith]

Like, oh, wow.

[Pasha Eaton]

Complete lie. Yeah. And then another person posts that he went to college with Chad. Ran into him in Hong Kong in 2012. And he was like, asking his. This friend who's posting, do you know an attorney? My cheating ex took the kids. It's like, well, she didn't take the kids.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, Chad said that.

[Pasha Eaton]

Chad said that.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow.

[Pasha Eaton]

Uh, she didn't take the kids.

[Jordana Hauser]

Well.

[Pasha Eaton]

And what's interesting about this post is this person Greg says, I went to college with Chad, ran into him in Hong Kong around 2007. Remained in contact for years. Around 2012, he asked for an attorney. Something about his cheating ex. So then, Jordana comments. Chad never went to college. Roasted.

[Hannah Smith]

Good job, Jordana. Well, 2012 is interesting. I wonder if he was just making up some story because they were together then, but she was starting to see.

[Pasha Eaton]

The writing on the wall. This guy's not who he says he is. The money isn't what he said it was in 2012. Is that wrong?

[Hannah Smith]

I think it was more like 2014. Ish. I think is more like when that's happening. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

I have no idea then what he would have been talking about.

[Hannah Smith]

They moved back to Bali in 2015.

[Pasha Eaton]

But we're doing that thing where we're trying to rationalize it. He could have just been doing some sob story.

[Hannah Smith]

Totally.

[Pasha Eaton]

I need money for an attorney. My ex, she cheated and took the kids.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. He basically just wanted money. Probably he was trying to get money.

[Pasha Eaton]

Oh, yeah. So many people on this page compare him to Anthony Mm.

[Hannah Smith]

Interesting. Yeah. How many people are on the Facebook page now?

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, it has almost 500 members. 497 members are on the page. There's people all over the world commenting that he has defrauded them. And it's the same story. It's, like, presented himself as someone who was super wealthy, very successful, and then little snafu. Need to use your credit card and then just start. In one case, one woman says that he used it without her authorization many, many, many times, and continued using it after she reported him.

[Hannah Smith]

It's horrible. And it's always just too. We see with stories like this that someone is able to get away with it for so long because they do things like change locations, fly to a different country. He used slightly different versions or spellings of his name, so there's those little tricks like that. But, of course, you know, if this is your life, you've created a life where you're just always having to run and always having to lie. What is the end point?

[Pasha Eaton]

Right. You know, he's never coming back here. He'll be arrested, and he knows that. One of the posts says he was arrested in Copenhagen in 2022, but then let go. And, I mean, I don't know anything about that, but I assume, like, if you're being arrested in Copenhagen for something you did somewhere else, that's probably pretty complicated because what do you do? Bring in all of those people to try a case or, you know, however it works there. Like, that's probably very expensive and difficult.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Also, he. He seems like he is able to get out of things like that posting from the Ark website that his mom was arrested and he was. He couldn't be found. Like, what happened? He evaluated.

[Pasha Eaton]

He left his own mom.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And then he's, like, arrested in Copenhagen, but then let go. So. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

One of the members of this group posted a poll for the other members. The options. I've lost money to Chad, and he has yet to pay it back. And then there's a bunch of others. The two with the highest percentage by far. 40% say, I've lost money to Chad and he has yet to pay it back. 44%. I've never met Chad but have friends or family affected by losing money to him.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow. Well, we're really appreciative that Jordana spoke with us, and good to be aware that Chad is out there. He's still out there.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And I don't think ARC wants to speak with us, but if they changed their mind.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah, they really did not. But I Would love to do an interview with them.

[Pasha Eaton]

That sounds really, really cool.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. Okay, so let's do some quick recommendations. Do you want to? Before we wrap up?

[Pasha Eaton]

All right, so I'm halfway through a podcast, and I'm really liking it. It's called In Her Defense, and it's about a woman named Helen Nasland who was convicted of killing her husband on their Alberta farm.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

But she had been suffering so much abuse for decades and decades by her husband. By her husband and the neighbors. The interviews with her son, it really paints a picture of, like, how difficult her life was and whether or not she killed him. Like, she had no other way to get help. In her mind, that was reality for her. And so I think the interviews are really powerful. And it's just one of those podcasts that it makes you think. Like, you. You meet someone and you really have no idea what they're going through, or you are unsure how to help. So you don't do anything because you don't wanna say the wrong thing. You don't wanna make a problem where there isn't one or offend someone. But they understood something was off about the marriage. But not everyone knew the extent of the abuse. They had a son in 1984, so he does a lot of the interviews. I actually found the story because I. I read about an interview he did and then saw there was already a podcast going on.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, gotcha. What is his stance? Well, I guess you don't want to give it away.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I don't want to give anything away, but the interviews are very telling and at least really made me think, you know, if someone is in a dangerous situation, I'd rather them be irritated that I called someone and told someone than look back later. And that's not to say these people did anything wrong. I wasn't in their shoes in that moment, but. But to hear that a lot of people had an idea something was happening is. It's sad.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. It just makes me think. I wanna learn more about what qualifies as self defense, because you would think that that would qualify as self defense. It also makes me think about that story of that woman who was being trafficked and she killed her trafficker.

[Pasha Eaton]

Young. She's young. I don't even know. Was she a minor?

[Jordana Hauser]

She was a minor.

[Pasha Eaton]

I think she was a minor.

[Hannah Smith]

And then she's being charged for that. That. For his murder.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. I can't recall if she's a minor or just a very young adult, but either way. Yeah, I know what you're talking about and it's mind blowing because I can only imagine what someone's psychological state is in that moment. You're just trying to survive.

[Hannah Smith]

That sounds like a good podcast. I will check it out. Okay. I have a podcast as well. I actually heard about this from the podcast queen's Instagram. They do a lot of recommendations. Sea of Lies. Have you heard of this one?

[Pasha Eaton]

I have seen it on the charts when I go look for ours.

[Hannah Smith]

Sea of Lies from Uncover. It's a CBC podcast and I think I'm four episodes in out of seven. It's really good. I'll just read this first little descriptor. A body is pulled from the ocean and a race against time to capture one of the world's most wanted criminals begins. What I like about this podcast is I think they do a really good job of structuring the show. They keep you interested and there's twists and turns and as you go, the story keeps unfolding in a way that's really satisfying and interesting. So I would recommend it.

[Pasha Eaton]

Cool.

[Hannah Smith]

I'll check it out real quick. Cause I mentioned it. I just looked it up. Crystal Kaiser was 17 in 2018 when she shot Randall Volarge.

[Jordana Hauser]

And.

[Hannah Smith]

He had been abusing her and filming it for more than a year before she killed him. Before he was killed. And last year she was sentenced to 11 years in prison. She accepted a plea deal.

[Pasha Eaton]

It's like, how could that be?

[Hannah Smith]

She was a minor. She was being abused. You know, obviously it's complicated, but like to define self defense, but I don't know, it just doesn't seem just. It seems like she was clearly trying to defend herself from a very horrible, violent situation.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And I mean, even thinking about that cat cult story, which is wildly different than this one, it's like I imagine in a situation where someone is exercising that level of control over another person, let alone a child, it's like you don't know up from down, like. Like you don't know what to do to get out of something peacefully. If that's even a realistic option. Yeah, I don't know a lot about the case, but it sounds very unjust.

[Hannah Smith]

Well, that is our episode for today.

[Pasha Eaton]

Thanks for listening.

[Hannah Smith]

We'll see you next week.

[Pasha Eaton]

If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is the knifexactlyrightmedia.com or. Or you can follow us on Instagram, henifepodcast or blueskyenifepodcast.

[Hannah Smith]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith.

[Pasha Eaton]

And me, Pasha Eaton. Our producers are Tom Breyfogle and Alexis Amorosi.

[Hannah Smith]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel.

[Pasha Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Hannah Smith]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Pasha Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.

[Hannah Smith]

Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstar Stark and Danielle Kramer.