The Night That Changed Everything

Summary

The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

Episode Title: The Night That Changed Everything
Date: April 16, 2026
Hosts: Hannah Smith & Pasha Eaton
Featured Interviewee: Erin Lotman
Subject: The 1995 abduction and murder of Jennifer Evans; the conviction and recent parole of Dusty Turner, who has maintained his innocence for 31 years.

---

Episode Overview

This gripping episode goes deep into the story of Dusty Turner, a Navy SEAL trainee convicted in 1996 of the abduction and murder of Jennifer Evans in Virginia Beach—a crime he has always maintained he didn't commit. With Turner’s parole and permission, hosts Hannah Smith and Pasha Eaton at last release their detailed conversation with his advocate and friend, Erin Lotman. Through first-person recollections and empathetic inquiry, the episode explores the tragedy, the trial, shifting narratives, and the decades-long fight for Turner's release.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Virginia Beach in the 90s

• Erin Lotman describes growing up in a tight-knit, military-heavy community where everyone mingled. Cruising the beach, meeting military guys, and nights at clubs were typical for local young people.
• Quote:

  “This is a predominantly military area... a big melting pot... I usually say that we don’t like the snow, we don’t like the cold weather. We love the sand.” – Erin Lotman (04:54)

Jennifer Evans’ Disappearance (06:29 – 09:21)

• Jennifer Evans, a recent college graduate and aspiring pediatrician, disappears after a night out at a club. The crime was shocking due to its rarity and the deep sense of safety in the community.
• Quote:

  “It was the first time probably that I ever read a newspaper article from start to finish... this could have been me.” – Erin Lotman (06:51)

Turner, Brown, and That Night (10:01 – 18:14)

• Dusty Turner and Billy Brown, close friends and Navy SEAL trainees (not just “trainees”; they’d completed training), are the focus from the beginning.
• Details of the night:
  • Jennifer leaves her friends to spend more time with Dusty.
  • Dusty tries to get a ride for a heavily intoxicated Billy so he can be alone with Jennifer.
  • As plans shift, the three end up together in Dusty’s car.

The Crime as Described by Turner (23:28 – 29:55)

• According to Turner and now Brown:
  • Billy Brown, intoxicated, becomes belligerent, inappropriately touches Jennifer, and—after she rebuffs him—begins choking her with a move learned in SEAL training.
  • Turner claims he tried to intervene, but it was too late.
  • In the chaos, Billy orders Turner to “drive” and, operating on SEAL training and fear, Dusty complies, helping to move and hide Jennifer’s body in a park.
• Quote:

  “It happened so quick... By the time that he tried to stop, he had already taken his arms away from her. She was limp.” – Erin Lotman (24:46)

The Days Following & The Investigation (30:03 – 36:35)

• Both men attempt to live as if nothing happened.
• Turner’s emotional numbness and compartmentalization from SEAL training echo throughout his account.
• Billy’s shifting stories confuse the investigation; ultimately, both are charged with murder and other offenses.
• Quote:

  “There was not any discussion other than the initial, ‘We weren’t there. We left and left her with her friends.’ And so that was the story.” – Erin Lotman (31:12)

The Trials, Media, and Sentencing (37:03 – 46:39)

• Billy Brown’s and Dusty Turner’s trials are marked by high local media attention and public certainty of their guilt.
• Brown’s past violence toward women is kept out of his trial but not Turner's.
• The prosecution leans into casting them as immoral and dangerous, using stories about group sex to sway the jury.
• Turner is convicted almost solely on Brown’s (then unrecanted) testimony, despite a lack of physical evidence and allegations that evidence was misrepresented.
• Sentence: Turner receives 82 years; Brown, 72.
• Quote:

  “He got 82 years for first degree murder, abduction with intent to defile. Billy Brown got 72 years.” – Erin Lotman (46:39)

Brown’s Recantation & Legal Limbo (47:51 – 54:10)

• In 1999, Billy Brown confesses to his attorney and mother that Dusty was innocent of murder. It’s largely ignored.
• In 2002, Brown gives a sworn affidavit; it takes six years to reach court.
• Turner is granted writ of actual innocence based on Brown’s recent testimony—but the ruling is appealed, and complicated by conflicts of interest (including the original prosecutor later sitting on the appeals court).
• Notable Courtroom Quote (audio clip):

  “I sat back in the seat and then one minute I was normal and the next minute I snapped and I started choking her. And I think Dusty, I believe I recall him trying to pull my arm away…” – Billy Brown, court testimony (50:31)

Systemic Failures & The Parole Fight (54:10 – 61:07)

• Erin Lotman becomes Dusty’s advocate after watching the documentary Target of Opportunity.
• The case is derailed repeatedly by legal technicalities, sentencing miscommunications, and parole eligibility issues due to changes in Virginia law (Fishback Gap).
• Turner’s crime, accessory after the fact, would normally mean about a year’s sentence.
• Parole finally granted after 30 years, thanks to advocacy, shifting public attitudes, and Brown’s admissions.
• Quote:

  “You know, and I think this is probably what he would say is, even if you don’t agree with the part with him driving away with Billy Brown in hiding Jennifer, it doesn’t equal 30 years in jail. And that’s where he’s been—in prison for 30 years.” – Erin Lotman (62:57)

Reflections on Justice, the Victim’s Family, & Remorse (57:16 – 58:05)

• Dusty’s remorse is acknowledged; he has taken responsibility for helping move Jennifer’s body and expressed this to the parole board and in letters.
• The hosts and Erin repeatedly center Jennifer Evans as the victim, expressing their continued empathy for her family, who, shaped by police and official accounts, had always believed in both men’s guilt.

Parole Board Hearing and Release (64:16 – 72:59)

• The parole hearing is depicted as tense, difficult, and revealing, exposing how emotion, reputation, and law intertwine.
• Some parole board members base their votes on emotion or military reputation; others on the law and a review of court records.
• Dusty is granted parole with a slim majority.
• Quote:

  “There’s inevitably some of that [emotion] because you have a victim and you’re considering how their family’s going to feel… and that matters, but it matters to an extent. And the rest of what matters is: is this person a risk to society? Have they done time that tells me that there has been some level of justice?” – Pasha Eaton (68:59)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You never heard of anybody going missing or murdered in the area that I grew up in… it never made the news.” – Erin Lotman (07:49)
• “They did not have a conversation other than Billy saying, well, we gotta stick together.” – Erin Lotman (30:10)
• “A lot of people do... get hung up on the fact that he drove away. And I get it. I mean, how could you not?” – Erin Lotman (62:57)
• “For so many years, you’ve been told by so many attorneys, by everybody, just be quiet. Just be quiet and they’ll let you out and it hasn’t happened.” – Erin Lotman (02:23, 63:38)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:08 – Explicit content warning; the seriousness of the episode
• 04:54 – Description of Virginia Beach
• 06:29 – 09:21 – Jennifer Evans’ background and disappearance
• 13:08 – Police home in on Turner and Brown
• 23:28 – 24:59 – The encounter in the car, Billy’s violent attack
• 29:03 – Hiding the body and aftermath
• 36:35 – Both men charged; Brown flips on Turner
• 46:39 – Sentencing; Turner receives a harsher sentence than Brown
• 50:31 – Billy Brown’s in-court video recantation (audio clip)
• 54:10 – 61:07 – Lotman’s advocacy; legal technicalities; long wait for justice
• 64:16 – 72:59 – Detailed recap of the parole board hearing and Turner’s eventual parole

---

Closing Notes & Teaser

• Episode ends with news that Dusty has been paroled after 30 years—the parole board split, with some focusing on the impact to the Navy’s reputation and others on the facts of the case and proportionality of punishment.
• Erin Lotman’s devotion and friendship with Dusty is woven throughout, underscoring the human stakes.
• The hosts announce a forthcoming, exclusive interview with Turner himself in the next episode.

---

For listeners new to the story, this episode provides a nuanced and moving account of a life-altering crime and its aftermath, the fallibility of justice, and the enduring power of personal advocacy. It holds space for victim, accused, and community alike, asking what justice could—and should—look like.

Transcript

[Pasha Eaton]

This is exactly right.

[Public Sponsor]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screen thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures there's a difference

[Redfin Sponsor]

between liking a house and actually getting it. Redfin is built to make up that difference and close the gap between finding and owning the home for you. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents, so when you find a home you love, you're not a step behind when it comes to making an offer. That means less watching great homes disappear and more focus on the one you'll call home. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses and get [e-mail] own the dream

[Pets Best Sponsor]

protect your pet with insurance from Pets Best Plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Co. Or Independence American Insurance Co. For terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Co. Or Ms. Transverse Insurance Co. And administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyhold and illness plans. Tests Age 0 to 10 this story

[Hannah Smith]

contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[Pasha Eaton]

The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of the speaker and do not necessarily represent the knife or exactly right media.

[Erin Lotman]

For so many years, you've been told by so many attorneys, by everybody, just be quiet. Just be quiet and they'll let you out and it hasn't happened.

[Pasha Eaton]

Welcome to the Knife. I'm Pasha Eaton.

[Hannah Smith]

I'm Hannah Smith. We are releasing an episode today that we were originally gonna release in January. It's an episode about a man named Dusty Turner who was convicted of first degree murder and abduction in 1996. But he has always maintained his innocence and has been fighting for his freedom for 30 years. We ended up delaying that episode release because we heard he was actually scheduled to be paroled, but that any kind of media coverage could potentially interfere with his parole, which, of course, we didn't want to do.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And Dusty has since been released and he has given us permission to air the episode. So we are going to do that today in this episode. We don't speak with Dusty himself for that. You will have to wait until next week. Instead, we interviewed his advocate and friend, Aaron Lotman.

[Hannah Smith]

In 1996, Dusty Turner and Billy Brown, friends and Navy SEAL training partners, were convicted of the abduction and murder of Jennifer Evans. Dusty's conviction relied heavily on the testimony of Billy Brown, which was later recanted. Dusty maintained his innocence for 31 years and never stopped fighting to clear his name. Aaron Lottman walks us through his case.

[Pasha Eaton]

As a reminder, when we recorded this interview, Dusty had not yet been released. He was released about three months later.

[Hannah Smith]

Let's get into the interview.

[Pasha Eaton]

Hi, Erin. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with Hannah and I today.

[Erin Lotman]

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

[Hannah Smith]

We're really looking forward to speaking with you today.

[Erin Lotman]

Me too.

[Pasha Eaton]

Just to start us off, could you go ahead and just introduce yourself?

[Erin Lotman]

Sure. My name is Erin Lotman. I live in Virginia in what we considered the mid Atlantic southeastern part of Virginia and a sister city to Virginia beach where this crime happened.

[Pasha Eaton]

And you're from Virginia, is that right?

[Erin Lotman]

I grew up in this area, yes. Lived here all my life.

[Pasha Eaton]

For those who aren't familiar with it, could you tell us a little bit about what the area sort of looks and feels like when you're living there?

[Erin Lotman]

Sure. This is a predominantly military area. It's a big melting pot of military families. It is obviously coastal, so beach is our thing. And I usually say that we don't like the snow, we don't like the cold weather. We love the sand. When I first got my driver's license, me and a lot of my girlfriends would drive down to Virginia beach and we did what everybody did at that age when you weren't old enough to go into the bars and it was cruising the strip and hollering at boys and going to hotel parties. And it wasn't uncommon that we would meet young enlisted men and we would go to parties. You know, one of my girlfriends went to the prom with somebody that was in the army because of somebody she met at the beach.

[Hannah Smith]

If you live in Virginia beach, the military's presence is inescapable. At any given time, an estimated 80 to 100,000 active duty service members are stationed in the Hampton Roads metropolitan area, and it's a source of local pride. Bumper stickers reading I heart jet noise are a familiar sight, A nod to the near constant roar of aircraft from nearby Naval Air station Oceania. It's also common to find yourself at a bar alongside young trainees blowing off steam. In 1995, Erin was 20 years old, spending nights at the Oceanfront's 18 and up clubs. It felt fun, it felt safe. Until June of that year when a young woman disappeared after a night out at an oceanfront nightclub.

[Erin Lotman]

I hung out at this one location called the Abyss, which was across the street from the club where Jennifer Evans went missing from.

[Pasha Eaton]

When did you first become aware of Jennifer Evans disappearance sort of set us in time and place for you. How old were you? What was going on in your life when you first became aware of her disappearance?

[Erin Lotman]

It was on the news. Initially it was, you know, she was missing. There were missing posters that were put up. And at the time, I remember thinking that weekend that she went missing, I was across the street at the Abyss, which was a club across the street from the everettison Inn, which had a bar called the Bayou. So initially I saw it on TV and then it was all in the newspapers. This is back when we actually got newspapers at our door. And it was the first time probably that I ever read a newspaper article from start to finish. It is something that was talked about amongst all my friends. I mean, obviously, because we went to the Oceanfront and it was a sense of, you know, this could have been me.

[Pasha Eaton]

You mentioned this was really being talked about a lot and there was a lot of news coverage. Was this something that. The reaction was that due to the rarity of crimes like this, you never

[Erin Lotman]

heard of anybody going missing or murdered in the area that I grew up in. I mean, certainly there was, but you just never heard of it or it just never made. It never made the news.

[Hannah Smith]

You know, you mentioned the connection you felt with Jennifer Evans hearing this story, especially because you went to the same places in the same neighborhood and probably hung out with similar people and were close in age. What was your age difference So I was 20.

[Erin Lotman]

Jennifer Evans was 21 at the time. I can't imagine what her family was going through. And through all of this, I think it's very important that we always keep Jennifer in the front of all this because she is the victim.

[Hannah Smith]

Jennifer Lee Evans was reported missing on June 19, 1995. She was last seen the night before at a bar called the Bayou in Virginia Beach. Jennifer was from a suburb of Atlanta. She was in town visiting friends and planned to return home within a couple days to start a summer job. She had graduated from Oxford College the year before with a degree in biology, and she hoped to attend medical school. Erin did not know Jennifer personally, but she felt some kind of kinship with her. Erin, like so many others, was glued to the television, watching and waiting for updates, hoping Jennifer would be found alive. What unsettled Erin most was how familiar Jennifer felt to her.

[Erin Lotman]

She listened to the same kind of music I did, which at that time, I don't know why this stands out a lot, but she liked tlc, and that was like big, big, big thing. At that time, she was on the Dean's list. She volunteered for a local hospital, and her goal was to be a pediatrician. She wanted to go to medical school. She actually was a gymnast for a long time, and then she also coached kids in gymnastics. I really saw herself as like my friend or my sister. And initially, that's what brought interest to the case.

[Hannah Smith]

Jennifer's friends reported her missing first thing the morning of June 19, 1995, and an investigation was opened. People who'd been at the Bayou the night before told investigators they'd seen Jennifer with some military guys. They didn't know their names. But Virginia beach police quickly focused the investigation on two young men, close friends who had just completed Navy SEAL training. Dusty Turner and Billy Brown.

[Erin Lotman]

So first she's missing, and then two days, because her girlfriends were able to say she left here with this guy. And at the time, they didn't know his name. They just knew he was a Navy seal. So they were able to zero in on Dusty. They actually interviewed both Billy Brown and Dusty, and initially it was, you know, we're just going to say we were there and we left her with her friends.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And can you tell me a little bit about Dusty and Billy's relationship at this point in time? What have they been doing together? What have they been working on together? Sort of describe that bond to me.

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah, that is something that is really hard to describe. It is a very tight bond that they forge through training. And then one Thing I do want to point out is that there are some schools of thought on them being Navy SEAL trainees. And the word trainees to me is somebody that hasn't finished butts. And I think it's a word that was used by the media and a word that was decided by the SEAL team community is to make them trainees to disassociate themselves from both of them. But they had completed Navy SEAL training, and certainly they did not have their tridents, but they were very close to receiving their tridents. They were graduates of Navy's little training that did the hard stuff. They did everything together. They ate together, they slept together, they trained together. There was times that Dusty helped him get through, like, really hard swims. I think Dusty excelled in the swimming aspect and Billy Brown did not. It was, I guess, a good pairing because, you know, you can't get through without the other one getting through. And certainly Dusty had a lot to do with getting Billy Brown through training.

[Hannah Smith]

Dustin Turner, who went by Dusty, was 20 years old at the time. He was tall and blonde. Originally from Bloomington, Indiana, he'd been on his high school swim team. He'd been accepted into the SEALS training program just before his 19th birthday, which made him one of the youngest recruits in his class. And it was there that he met Billy Brown. Billy was three years older than Dusty. He grew up in Huber Heights, Ohio, had dropped out of high school and had a somewhat tumultuous past. Regardless of their differences, the two sailors bonded. They became swim buddies and were fiercely dedicated to each other. But now they were the focus of a missing persons investigation.

[Pasha Eaton]

This is June 18, 1995. Within two days, authorities have zeroed in on Dusty Turner and Billy Brown, who Jennifer Evans, friends say agree she was with that night. What unfolds once Dusty and Billy are contacted by authorities? First, Dusty and Billy decide together they're just going to tell police, yes, we were with her that night, but she left with her friends and sort of take us through how their story evolves from that point.

[Erin Lotman]

They brought them to the FBI building in Richmond, Virginia, and Virginia beach police attempted to administer a lie detector. Billy Brown got all wired up and then decided within, like a few questions, he was done for Dusty. He did it. He for eight days. You know, all this is weighing on him and he was about to explode. They came back to him and said, we know you didn't do it. We know because of the way you answer the questions, because you did not tell the truth, that you didn't know what happened to Jennifer and you passed the part where you didn't hurt her, you didn't kill her. We know Billy did, and we need you to help us. And he says, well, I want to talk to my warrant officer.

[Hannah Smith]

According to statements from people who'd also been at the Bayou, the night of June 18, Dusty and Jennifer were seen together chatting, dancing, and flirting. They were even seen walking out of the club together. In fact, the picture that emerged was that Dusty Turner was the last person seen with Jennifer the night she disappeared. What also came to light were more details about the relationship between Dusty Turner and Billy Brown. The two were reportedly inseparable. They had just applied for an apartment to live together. And yet it had also become apparent that Billy had a tendency to drink heavily on his days off.

[Erin Lotman]

Billy Brown was drinking more than everybody else, just drinking in excess. A month before this happened, Dusty was hiding from Billy Brown for an entire day over a volleyball game. He said he was going to kill him.

[Pasha Eaton]

Literally, Billy said he was going to kill Dusty.

[Erin Lotman]

Dusty Dynasty. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Over a volleyball game.

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. It sounds like the Navy SEAL training that they both went through together as teammates. By design, you're made to feel very, very loyal to this person because the situations that you'll be sent into as Navy SEALs would inevitably require that.

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah. Part of the training is never to be more than six feet away from each other.

[Hannah Smith]

By the time Dusty took the lie detector test, eight days had passed since Jennifer disappeared. And it seemed that Dusty was ready to talk. He told his warrant officer exactly what he remembered from the night of June 18, 1995.

[Erin Lotman]

He and Billy Brown had gone to the club. You know, Billy Brown was in one part of the bar and Dusty was in another. They weren't really hanging out that night because Billy was just drinking a lot, and Dusty was off to himself, listening to the music. There was a band playing that night, and Jennifer Evans came up and introduced herself. You know, she at some points, was going back to her friends, and her friends came over at one point and spoke to Dusty. She had two girlfriends with them that night. And then, you know, one of the girlfriends wanted to leave, and she didn't feel well. She had a headache, and Jennifer didn't want to leave, so she nursed her beer so she could stay a little longer. And then the plan was that they were going to go, and Dusty walked her out to her friend's car. And Jennifer asked her friends, you know, well, can I stay here longer? They were trying to come up with some other plans. Either Dusty could bring her back to the beach house where she was staying. And they didn't like that idea. And they said, you know what, we'll come back at 2 o' clock when the bar closes and we'll come get you. That was the plan. This time was like quarter after one and we'll be back in 45 minutes, we'll get coffee and we'll come back and get you. And so they thought that they would go down to the beach, walk on the beach for a while.

[Pasha Eaton]

Dusty and Jennifer did?

[Erin Lotman]

Yes.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay, so Dusty and Jennifer are sort of planning, we're gonna go for a walk down the beach. Her friends are gonna be back in 45 minutes to an hour.

[Erin Lotman]

Yes. And so Dusty wanted to find a ride for Billy. He didn't want Billy to be interrupting them and he didn't know how. He just didn't want him around. And so he found a ride. It took two tries. He asked a Navy SEAL who he had never met before, who said that he had plans to go after hours, that he couldn't take Billy back. So he went to Billy Brown's ex girlfriend who was reluctant but agreeable to take him home. And then by the time he finally found a ride, it was too late to go to the oceanfront, walk on the beach and come back. So they decided that they would just hang out in his car and wait for her friends.

[Hannah Smith]

There are multiple accounts of Dusty and Jennifer leaving the bayou together the night of June 18th. It was sometime between 1:30 and 2:00am There are also multiple accounts that Jennifer seemed so excited to meet Dusty she didn't want to leave the bar with her friends. She'd convinced them to leave without her and then swing back around to pick her up when the bar closed. That gave her 45 more minutes with this cute new Navy Seal trainee. She'd met Dusty Turner, and yet the next morning she would be reported missing and the police investigation would focus on Dusty.

[Public Sponsor]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Redfin Sponsor]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin for flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise, and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com protect your pet with insurance

[Pets Best Sponsor]

from Pets Best plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com Policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to 10.

[Hannah Smith]

This is what we can tell from court documents about what happened at the nightclub the Bayou on the night of June 18, 1995. From one of the court documents, it's noted that Dusty Turner and Jennifer Evans met that evening and then they were seen interacting on and off for hours. Jennifer's friends then wanted to leave, but Jennifer wanted to stay and keep talking with Dusty. So her friends left and agreed to return in 45 minutes to pick her up at 2am Meanwhile, Dusty had arrived at the club with his fellow Navy SEAL trainee and friend, Billy Brown. What's clear is that Billy was drinking heavily that night. One court document says he spent the majority of the day drinking before they got to the club and then had an estimated quote, 8 to 10 beers, 8 to 10 shots, and 12 mixed drinks at the bar. Dusty, who'd just met Jennifer, didn't want Billy hanging around, especially when Billy was clearly intoxicated. But he also didn't want to leave his friend high and dry. So he went around the bar securing a ride home for Billy. Once that was done, Dusty and Jennifer left the Bayou. And according to Dusty's testimony, he and Jennifer went and sat in his car waiting for her friends to come back and pick her up. Reportedly, about 10 minutes later, Billy, who was highly intoxicated, got agitated in the bar and decided to leave and go find Dusty. So he headed out to the parking lot where Dusty and Jennifer were sitting in Dusty's car.

[Erin Lotman]

He found the car. He got in the car.

[Pasha Eaton]

He got into the backseat of the car, yes.

[Erin Lotman]

So Jennifer's in the passenger seat, Billy Brown is in the backseat, and he's already belligerent. He was trashed.

[Pasha Eaton]

He was trashed, yeah. And so Dusty's in the driver's seat of their parked car, Jennifer's passenger seat, and Billy Brown is belligerently drunk, and he gets into the backseat of the car and the car's parked.

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Okay.

[Hannah Smith]

The following account reflects Dusty Turner's statement about what happened that evening. Erin has since learned a lot about this case, but she has also spoken directly with Dusty, which we'll talk more about later. This is Dusty's story about what happened in the car. Once Billy Brown got into the backseat,

[Erin Lotman]

he's totally inappropriate, saying inappropriate things to Jennifer, and he either touches her hair or touches her shoulder. And up until that point, Dusty had told right before he got in the car, he's like, look, my friend's about to get in this car, and he's drunk, and he's probably gonna say some inappropriate things. Just ignore him. And so at that point, she was totally ignoring his inappropriate comments. Once he touched her hair, touched her shoulder, she swatted his hand away. And that's when he erupted in violence and put his arm around her neck. Dusty describes it as being, you know, he didn't see it. He felt it initially. And when he went to take his hands, he tried to take the hands off of her. First of all, that happened so quick. You Know, Dusty said it happened instantly. By the time that he tried to stop, he had already taken his arms away from her. She was limp.

[Hannah Smith]

So just so I'm understanding the mechanics, Billy is taking, like, his arm and sort of wrapping it around the front of the seat and her neck with his elbow and then pulling backward. And you have to imagine this guy's

[Erin Lotman]

a Navy SEAL and he's taking steroids.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh. And he was taking steroids.

[Pasha Eaton]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

So, yeah, that's pretty intense.

[Pasha Eaton]

And Dusty's in the driver's seat. Yeah. That's so hard.

[Hannah Smith]

Ugh. Horrible.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Erin Lotman]

You know, I've known him for, like, six years now, and I've gotten little pieces out of him over, you know, almost seven years now. And it was just a few months ago where he shared with me, you know, some of the training they actually teach him, the different chokeholds. And it's like that's what he used on her was something that they trained for.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so Jennifer is at this point in Dusty's car when you say she went limp. I mean, these are morbid questions. But just to understand how this is unfolding for Dusty and Billy in this moment as they're, you know, committing. They are committing a crime. Well, maybe Dusty hasn't yet, but that's about to happen. Is Jennifer dead, or does it seem like she has passed out?

[Erin Lotman]

Well, Dusty. I mean, this is even in his original trial transcripts. Yes, he said he took a pulse, but he felt like at that time she was dead. What Billy had done, it was, like, instant. She was dead.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. I mean, it's a horrific crime. Like, there really. There aren't words to put to it.

[Hannah Smith]

It's just like, one minute you have these people who are just meeting and flirting and having this innocent sort of fun, and then the next minute, it's a total nightmare and horrible. And this young woman is dead.

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. So Dusty is now sitting in the driver's seat of a car with Jennifer, who is deceased, and Billy, who is belligerently drunk and has killed her. What do you know about what unfolded?

[Erin Lotman]

Billy Brown told Dusty to drive, Drive, drive, drive. As soon as it happened. Get out of here. And that, I think he instinctively went to his training, and that was to evade an escape. And he drove. He drove away. And at that moment, that decision at that point is what changed the course of events. But I think it's also very important because I have talked, I have spoke to people in the community, and when I say the community, some Navy SEALs, some are really reluctant to Talk. But, you know, you are not going to find a SEAL that's running to the authorities. That's just not the mindset. It's not something that they do. And, you know, some people may say, well, this isn't wartime. This is, you know, civilian. But I think that he went to his brain. I mean, I think he's 20 years old, he's a kid, and he reacted in the way that he was trained. And he drove away, didn't know where he was at, didn't know where he was going, and he drove off. He ended about 50 miles down the road and got off an exit. Didn't know what he was going to find when he got off the exit, but he found a park.

[Pasha Eaton]

Was Billy telling him where to go?

[Erin Lotman]

Yes. Initially he told him, turn right here, turn left here to get out of the oceanfront area of Virginia Beach. But once he was on the highway, Dusty kind of knew general areas where he needed to go as far as how to get back to where they were training. But there was points that Billy Brown passed out. He slept.

[Pasha Eaton]

So they drive. Dusty drives, you know, 50 miles out of town, gets off at an exit where they find a park. What happens when they get to the park?

[Erin Lotman]

Well, I think Billy probably woke up or was awake at that point.

[Hannah Smith]

This part is very dark, and Aaron did not feel comfortable talking about it. But I think it's important to mention since what happened at the park impacted future court cases. According to Dusty's court testimony, he said that while he drove the 50 miles, at one point, Billy attempted to reach into Jennifer's pants and Dusty yelled at him to stop. When they were at the park, they removed Jennifer's body from the car. At one point, Dusty went back to the vehicle to look for a shovel, and when he returned, he said Billy was laying on top of Jennifer's dead body and her pants were down by her ankles. Dusty pulled him away. This would later bring a charge against Billy for attempted rape. They covered up Jennifer's body with leaves and then drove back to the base in Virginia Beach.

[Erin Lotman]

And, you know, they were just going to pretend like everything was normal.

[Pasha Eaton]

Did they have a conversation about, well, her friends are going to come back to the bar and look for her and she's not going to be there?

[Erin Lotman]

No, there was hardly any conversation. Dusty was. Was, I guess, lost for words. He was, you know, he was. They did not have a conversation other than Billy saying, well, we gotta stick together.

[Hannah Smith]

Now, I'm curious if Dusty has told you anything about the next 24 hours. Just because when I was reading the court documents. Well, I want to be really clear that I don't think having consumed any amount of alcohol or anything is any kind of excuse for what Billy did at all. But I'm wondering if he had a moment the next day in sobriety where he was like, oh, my God, what have I done? Or if he ever expressed anything like that to Dusty.

[Erin Lotman]

Dusty has not shared any of that with me. And for him, if anything, was very easy for him to carry on and go about normal. Business as usual for Billy, it seems for Billy, yeah. Which is.

[Hannah Smith]

That's pretty eerie.

[Erin Lotman]

Okay, well, they went on as business as usual, and they actually were making plans to get an apartment, so they tried to sign a lease for an apartment. There was a whole week. There was not any discussion other than the initial. We weren't there. We left and left her with her friends. And so that was the story that was told to police and the FBI when they came to talk to them.

[Pasha Eaton]

Do you remember if you've ever talked to Dusty about what those next 24 hours were like for him? Emotionally?

[Erin Lotman]

Very numb. Yeah, he was there, but very numb. You know, a lot of things, you know, for the training, I think a lot of it, you know, they do check out emotionally, that's part of it. And compartmentalizing. And for him, the way he describes it is just going through the motions, but it weighing on him a lot. And I think he had called his mother during this time period. Maybe not the first 24 hours, but leading up to the time he was arrested. He may have been calling home a little bit more just to hear a calm, reassuring voice. But, yeah, he. He was numb would be the best way to describe it.

[Hannah Smith]

It's worth noting that Navy SEAL training, known as buds, Basic Underwater Demolition SEAL training lasts about six months and is designed to break people down physically and psychologically. The focus is on endurance, pain tolerance, obedience, and mental resilience. The program is notoriously brutal, with only about 20 to 30% of trainees making it through the most infamous phase. Hell Week involves extreme physical exertion, near total sleep deprivation, and a culture of unforgiving toughness meant to enforce total loyalty to the team. A 2022 New York Times investigation found that 11 men had died during SEAL training since 1953. That's training, not combat. While the shared suffering can create intense bonds among those who survive it, it may also carry lasting consequences. The Times reported that performance enhancing drug use is an open secret, reinforcing a mindset that whatever it takes to succeed is acceptable. The program's intensity has also been linked to substance abuse, particularly the overuse of alcohol and prescription drugs. This is the environment that Billy and Dusty had been living in.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so Jennifer is reported missing. There's news coverage happening about her disappearance. In the meantime, Billy and Dusty are trying to just go through the motions. The police zero in on them. Dusty opts to take the lie detector test, and they start to believe that, okay, Dusty, we know you know what happened, and we know you didn't kill her. How does it go from that lie detector test and authorities kind of confronting Dusty with this?

[Erin Lotman]

He at some point, you know, talked to his warrant officer, and he says, I'm going to call Jaguar. And JAG says, well, we can't assist or help on this because it's a civilian case. And so his warrant officer came back to him and said, the police want to ask five questions. And I think these five questions were the same questions that were asked on the lie detector.

[Pasha Eaton]

I see.

[Erin Lotman]

And which came first? I don't remember. So he agreed to talk to police and answer their questions. And that's when the police said, well, we know that Billy Brown did it, and we want you to help us. And so he agreed to draw a map of where Jennifer was. And they took that drawing and showed Billy Brown. And at that point, Billy knew that Dusty told the truth and essentially turned on him and what he perceived as breaking a seal code. And that's when he decided that he was going to tell the police. Well, several other different stories. One involved Dusty being basically putting Dusty in his shoes, and one saying that he somehow helped him.

[Hannah Smith]

I see. So just so I'm clear, in that moment, you know, when the. You can imagine if it were a movie, like, the investigators get information from someone they're interviewing in one room, bring it over to the next person, like, well, look, Dusty showed us on a map where her body is. And you're saying in that moment, Billy, who had previously just been saying, we got to stick together. We got to stick together, which really, you know, if you decode that means don't betray me, realizes that Dusty has probably told investigators what happened. And then his statement at that point, Billy's, is to say that, no, Dusty was the one who killed her. Is that right?

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah. Billy Brown said that when he got to the car, Dusty jumped out of the car and said, I killed her. She's dead, or something like that.

[Hannah Smith]

His story was that when he got to the car that night, that Jennifer was already dead.

[Erin Lotman]

Yes. One of his stories, one of his stories.

[Hannah Smith]

Okay.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so at that point, they're both charged with Jennifer's murder in addition to charges related to moving her body.

[Erin Lotman]

Billy Brown's trial was, I'm gonna say, May, and Dusty's trial was the end of August, early September.

[Pasha Eaton]

This is in 1996, so a year after Jennifer was murdered.

[Erin Lotman]

Right. And during that time, that's all what was on TV in the news was this case. That's all we heard.

[Hannah Smith]

Do you remember, you know, as someone who was local to that area and, you know, was very present for watching the news cycle, what was the general consensus of people in that area during that trial? Was it like, clearly both these guys did it? Was there any, you know, question or what was the general feeling?

[Erin Lotman]

The general feeling is they both did it. They both did it. And I mean, that was my takeaway from reading the articles from the news is they both did it.

[Hannah Smith]

You mentioned that Billy's trial was first. Do you recall what the result of his trial was?

[Erin Lotman]

He was found guilty on all charges. First degree murder, abduction, and attempted rape. There was a lot of things in his trial that was not allowed to be introduced that was allowed in Dusty's case.

[Hannah Smith]

Oh, like what?

[Erin Lotman]

Because this was a circumstantial case. And this also being in Virginia, which is the Bible Belt for people who are familiar with Pat Robertson, was really, like, literally down the road on the 700 Club because Dusty and Billy Brown had partaked in consensual sex, that somehow they were these sex fiends that were looking to rape and murder women.

[Hannah Smith]

The consensual sex Aaron mentioned refers to an occasion at some point in the past in which Dusty Turner and Billy Brown had a sexual encounter that involved multiple people. Dusty and Billy's fellow SEAL trainees were able to testify they'd heard both Billy and Dusty brag about this encounter. For some reason, the information about this group sex was not permitted to be talked about in Billy Brown's trial, but it was permitted to be used in Dusty's. The prosecution used this incident to paint a picture for the jury that Dusty was someone who did not have strong morals.

[Erin Lotman]

And the judge that was put on, he actually asked to be on the case. He was a former Navy officer himself. This is, you know, like I said, a community that has strong alliances with the SEAL community. I just thought it was always very interesting that he asked to have the case when it wasn't his time to.

[Hannah Smith]

Almost like he was trying to steal, say, this guy doesn't represent the values of the military, kind of Thing was that the sort of sentiment of like we're painting this guy as like this outlier who is a pervert and like scroope sex. And he's clearly not representative of the upstanding character of Navy seals.

[Erin Lotman]

I mean I think there is a huge sense of the Navy SEAL community to preserve their brand. They wanted for them to appear like they were outliers. They wanted to separate themselves. I think that's why Dusty didn't even have any proper representation. You know, just the way they really just wanted to wash their hands of him, of Dusty, that is. And they just rolled him up with Billy. And instead of owning that, they allowed somebody that had history of violence against women, which would be Billy. Yeah, Billy Brown had been in the Coast Guard who had beat up an officer and was kicked out and then a month later was able to apply and then became enlisted into the Navy. And I think now this is totally conjecture, but I think you know, they do somewhat of a psychological assessment on all these guys that go through the pipeline and you know, they're pick first certain reason.

[Pasha Eaton]

We're talking about someone who maybe is being given the training to do harm that is not emotionally regulated and has misogynistic value systems.

[Hannah Smith]

Violent behavior.

[Pasha Eaton]

Violent behavior. A history of it. Yeah, you know, I have to wonder about that.

[Public Sponsor]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like etc ETFs with infinite possibilities. Completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra NSIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Redfin Sponsor]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script with listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app. You can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win. Not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com protect your pet with insurance

[Pets Best Sponsor]

from Pets Fest Plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Co. Or Independence American Insurance Co. For terms and conditions, visit at www.petsbest.com Backslash policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Co. Or Ms. Transverse Insurance Co. And administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans Pets Age 0 to 10.

[Hannah Smith]

According to reporting from the Virginia Pilot, Billy Brown was arrested when he was 17 years old, but his record had been sealed since he was a juvenile. When Billy was 17, he was married to a 14 year old girl and he reportedly beat her up in public in front of several police officers, dragging her by her hair, claiming that she cheated on him. He was arrested for assault. The Navy claimed to not know about this arrest when Billy was accepted to SEAL training. From Aaron's perspective, the Navy was eager to distance itself from both Billy and Dusty, lumping them together as best friends who are both unruly, violent sex fiends and that they did not represent the morals of the Navy.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so Billy goes to trial. First, the unrelated sex acts are kept out of his trial and he he is convicted on all charges. And so Dusty's trial is next and the judge is asked to be put on the case. Tell us about what happens at Dusty's trial.

[Erin Lotman]

Dusty takes the stand. It was something that his attorney suggested they bring in a Mock up of Dusty's car, which was a small two seater. The way they described, the prosecution described how things happened was that somehow she was in between the seats, which is physically impossible. There was no evidence, blood, semen, or any of the things that they claim that happened. There is footage of the prosecutor after the trial saying, we had to convince the jury that Jennifer Evans was kidnapped from the parking lot because if they can stick him on the abduction, they had him on the murder.

[Hannah Smith]

Dusty had admitted to investigators that he helped Billy move and conceal Jennifer's body. That admission amounts to accessory after the fact, a crime that at the time in Virginia carried a sentence of about one year in prison. But that is not what Dusty was convicted of. Instead, prosecutors argued that the whole thing was planned, that Dusty and Billy acted together, that they abducted Jennifer forcefully from the parking lot with the intent to engage in group sex. Their case relied heavily on Billy Brown's testimony, which changed multiple times. There was no physical evidence. It was all circumstantial. Nonetheless, Dusty was convicted of first degree murder and abduction with intent to defile.

[Erin Lotman]

He got 82 years for first degree murder, abduction with intent to defile. Billy Brown got 72 years.

[Hannah Smith]

Wow.

[Erin Lotman]

With the attempted rape charge, that is

[Hannah Smith]

so wild that he got 10 more years than Billy Brown.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, 45 years for first degree murder and 37 years for abduction with intent to defile. 10 years longer than the one given to Brown. I know at the time this was being covered a lot, but you didn't yet have any sort of personal connection to Dusty. Do you recall Jennifer Evans family and their sort of feeling about both of them having been convicted?

[Erin Lotman]

You know, just what I've seen, you know, in the documentary, I think for the most part, you know, they're relying on the police and they were going off what the police was telling them. And they've always felt that Dusty was as culpable as Billy Brown because of what they were told from police. And that totally shaped their feelings about Dusty because they felt that he was an active participant in the crime.

[Hannah Smith]

Billy Brown and Dusty Turner both went to prison. And then a few years later, Billy Brown started talking. His story was changing.

[Erin Lotman]

From what I understand, it was actually in 1999 when he told his mother and his attorney and his attorney didn't believe him.

[Pasha Eaton]

And he tells them what he said.

[Erin Lotman]

Dusty had nothing to do with it. I lied. He helped me cover up the crime.

[Pasha Eaton]

Do you know if in those conversations he says why he lied about it?

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah, he said that he snitched. Those are his words. He snitched. He told on me and he said, I told the police what they wanted to hear. I figured they would want two instead of one, so I told him he was involved and he gets what he gets for telling on me. And he says that he honestly did not. They figured they would figure the truth out. They would figure it out and Dusty would be out. And he didn't think he was going to get convicted. And it wasn't until he became saved and found Jesus Christ. And is the reason why he reached out to his mother and his attorney. He wanted to free himself of what he had done. His lawyer did nothing with the information that he shared.

[Pasha Eaton]

Did his mother do anything with the information?

[Erin Lotman]

Not that I'm aware of, no. And in 2002, Dusty was out on the wreck yard and an inmate said, well, have you heard? And he said, heard what? He goes, well, Billy Brown is going around telling everybody you're innocent. And immediately Dusty called his mother. And his mother found a lawyer in the area where Billy Brown was housed at whatever prison he was at at the time. And he found a lawyer. He agreed to give an affidavit from there. So that was in 2002. It took another six years to get in court. And Dusty was the very first person who actually was granted a writ of actual innocence in Virginia based on non biological evidence which would have been Billy Brown's confession.

[Hannah Smith]

This is a clip from the documentary target of the U.S. navy SEALs and the murder of Jennifer Evans from Near Genius Films. In this clip, Billy Brown is testifying in Virginia circuit court. In 2008, I think I sat back

[Billy Brown]

in the seat and then one minute I was normal and the next minute I snapped and I started choking her. And I think Dusty, I believe I recall him trying to pull my arm away.

[Erin Lotman]

When you say you snapped and started

[Billy Brown]

choking her, how did you accomplish that? I just wretched around and started choking. One minute it was normal, the next minute I was gone. And then I said, whoa. Then it was too late. Then I knew it was too late. It was too late in the sense of what? She was gone.

[Hannah Smith]

She was dead?

[Billy Brown]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

Billy Brown said the reason he was coming forward now was that he had found faith.

[Billy Brown]

Well, I became a Christian man. I knew immediately in my heart what I had to do was to tell the truth. And I didn't want to, but I said, okay. So I just did it. Why didn't you want to? Because, man, I mean, how would you like to stand before the whole world and tell them not only were you immersed murder and A liar. But you betrayed your best friend. So it wasn't easy on the flesh to do.

[Pasha Eaton]

What did that writ of innocence do for Dusty?

[Erin Lotman]

Once they ruled that Dusty was granted the writ of actual innocence, Dusty felt like that was it. His family celebrated. He thought he was going to get out. But then the Attorney General appealed that decision and requested the full court of appeals, which is called the en banc, which sat eight judges. So before it was three judges, the three judge panel. Now we have an eight judge panel. What is really important for people to know is that the original prosecutor in this case sat now on the court of appeals. There was a lot of people in this case that had elevated positions after. This case was a big one.

[Pasha Eaton]

That's a major conflict of interest.

[Hannah Smith]

Seriously.

[Erin Lotman]

He recused himself. I should say that he still. He recused himself, but he was there. It was a judge that put forward a theory, and then the theory was abduction by deception. And really it was a loophole of misinterpreting the law and really misconstruing the facts of the case in order to uphold his convictions. That's all this was. And so the Supreme Court then, by this time, this is another tidbit. The Attorney General that appealed the writ, by the time it gets to the Supreme Court, he's now sitting on the Supreme Court. The Attorney General is still on the Supreme Court, who upholds the final decision of the Yambunc Court of the Court of Appeals.

[Pasha Eaton]

I mean, it's unfathomable that in 1999, Billy Brown changes his story, says Dusty had nothing to do with Jennifer's murder and his attorney does nothing with it. Dusty's family gets an attorney to talk to him. He tells a judge the same thing. Dusty had nothing to do with it. That judge says, okay, like I'm agreeing with this. And then here we are in December 2025, and Dusty is still in prison.

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so before we get up to sort of right now and what's happening with the case, tell us about how you became connected to dusty.

[Erin Lotman]

So in 2015, I remember hearing in the news that one of them. Because at this time I didn't know their names, I knew that one of them was claiming innocence. So I got on my laptop and started searching. And then that's when I knew their names and learned that it was Dusty Turner who had been in court and who had claimed innocence.

[Hannah Smith]

Aaron watched the 2011 documentary Target of Opportunity, the U.S. navy SEALs and the Murder of Jennifer Evans, which chronicled the events of Jennifer's murder As well as Dusty Turner's continual efforts to overturn his conviction. One piece of information that Aaron learned was that in the early 2000s, a jury member from Dusty's trial spoke out. They said the jury had asked multiple times for clarification on sentencing from the judge, but the judge refused to speak to them. The jury member said that if they had had clarification about sentencing, the convictions might have been different. Instead of being charged with accessory after the fact with a 12 month sentence, Dusty's charges incurred an 82 year sentence. By 2015, the year Aaron watched the documentary, Dusty had already been in prison for 19. Aaron became convinced that Dusty was wrongfully convicted and should not still be serving time.

[Erin Lotman]

But when I watched it, I felt compelled. I can't describe it, I felt angry. I felt a lot of anger. I wrote a letter to Dusty and then after writing it, I balled it up and threw it away. And another year goes by and I think about it again and I write another letter. Probably 2017, I wrote a letter again. I balled it up, threw it away. Part of me was like, why are you writing a letter to somebody in prison? That is so weird. And another two years go by. And I sent him a Jpay, which is a electronic version of email for prisoners. And I thought, well, I'll send it. And I can't ball up a piece of paper. And it started out with I email once a week to maybe twice a week for several months and then a phone call once a week. Then it became multiple times a week. And now I talk to him multiple times a day. I consider him my best friend because when you talk to him, you really get a sense of who he is. And he is a remarkable person. Had a dog who was 14 years old and was at the end of her life and had to put down. And I'll tell you, that rocked my world. And he was there for me for that. We've lost family members together. He lost his father, he's lost his grandmother and his stepfather during all this. And we also went through the pandemic together. He really cares. He sends his family and his friends, including me, birthday cards, Mother's Day cards.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. I'm wondering if you have any sort of awareness of Jennifer's family's thoughts on everything happening with Dusty and those advocating for his release and his innocence.

[Erin Lotman]

Yeah, yeah. I've always thought about, you know, what they think or how they may feel. But, you know, I can't presume to know how they're feeling. I don't know much about her family. I know she has friends that certainly still experience a lot of grief and have missed a lot of milestones. And, you know, Jennifer hasn't been there for any of that.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And you know, also to acknowledge that in sort of fairness to everything that did happen, Dusty committed a crime when he moved her body and he has been in prison. I guess I'd have to fact check this again, but it sounds like if that's the charge that he is truly guilty of, he has served that time.

[Erin Lotman]

Yes.

[Pasha Eaton]

Is Dusty remorseful for the role he played in this?

[Erin Lotman]

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He's definitely has taken responsibility for the part he took in after the crime and he has acknowledged that. He has acknowledged that with the parole board and even in an open letter that he wrote that hopefully Jennifer's family and friends would be able to read if the parole board felt or deemed appropriate. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

And what is the sort of next thing that needs to happen for Dusty to sort of have hope that he would eventually be released?

[Erin Lotman]

So what's available right now and what's on the plate right now is parole. And like I said, this is his fourth time back in July, he met with a parole examiner. So in Virginia, most people going up for parole are. Well, actually, I need to back up a little bit because Virginia abolished parole in 1995. July 1st of 1995. The only reason why Billy Brown and Dusty Turner are parole eligible is because of a law that was passed between the years of 1995 and 2000. It's called the Fishback Gap, where juries were not informed that Virginia had abolished parole. So what we were finding is that there were these really long sentences because juries felt like they were only going to spend a third of that time in prison. So they were giving them these really long sentences. And so juries, unless they knew, and even when they asked, and in this particular case, Zesty's jury asked specifically about parole and the judge refused to answer. And so it affected quite a bit of people. So in 2000, this one went through legislation and Dusty went up parole for the first time and Dusty was given a three year deferral. He went up again in 2023, deny in 2024. And now we're up right now. In July, he was interviewed by a examiner. And then Dusty got called in August by three members of the parole board to have a zoom interview. And they asked a lot of questions about the case. And then through his lawyer recently oyed the voting process and we found out that he has the necessary votes to be paroled as of the end of October. It doesn't become certified until you're put on a public hearing. And it was just announced in December that he's not on December's docket. So we have one month left. And we're wondering what's going on? Why isn't Dusty getting his public hearing to certify these votes?

[Hannah Smith]

Aaron and a small group of volunteers work together as advocates for Dusty Turner's release. They meet regularly amongst themselves and with Dusty. They took a group trip to visit Dusty in prison. They have gone to D.C. and met with representatives, and they are also trying to raise awareness of Dusty's case on social media under the account freedustyturner.

[Erin Lotman]

This case has consumed me. I mean, if you were to look in this room right now, I have all his case files in here. It's totally consumed me. You know, I do little things for Dusty on a daily basis. You know, I'm older. I'm 50 years old, same age as Dusty. And my kids are grown, they're adults. And, you know, they've told me that, mom, you are. You're spending way too much time on this. You need to do. You need to do something else. They have come around. My oldest daughter, really, in particular, she was very concerned of me communicating with somebody in the prison. She's expressed. She's like, mom, I had a hard time, which a lot of people do. They had a heart she had a hard time with. Really, the fact that Dusty drove away and that was it for her, and that is it for a lot of people is they get hung up on the fact that he drove away. And I get it. I mean, how could you not? And so that has really bothered her. But like I said, in recent weeks, she's come around. I don't believe that Dusty still needs to be there, but for the longest time, she had a lot of animosity. And why are you helping him? I really don't have an answer to it. I think a lot of it was because of the friendship that we developed. And when you get to know him and he doesn't have a lot of people fighting for him, you know, until social media, it was just his family. His mom's getting older now. I felt like there was nobody else out there. And truly, there really wasn't anybody else out there. And him finally deciding, yes, let's do social media for so many years, he'd been told by so many attorneys, by everybody, is just be quiet. That's what he's been told, is just be Quiet, and they'll let you out. And it hasn't happened. I hope that other people can see the injustice in this. You know, and I think this is probably what he would say is, even if you don't agree with the part with him driving away with Billy Brown in hiding, Jennifer, it doesn't equal 30 years in jail. And that's where he's been in prison for 30 years. He is guilty of accessory after a fact, and accessory after the fact does not equal 30 years. And anybody who believes in justice would agree to that.

[Pasha Eaton]

I'm so glad that we were able to release this episode. Me, too, because.

[Hannah Smith]

Me, too, because.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, it's just. It's an important story.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And we were about ready to release it in January, and then at the last minute made that decision, which we both think was a good call. But I'm so glad that his story has gotten out there and that also he's been paroled now.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. In fact, as you know, I watched the parole hearing live, and it was excruciating to watch, actually, like the nurse that I felt watching it on behalf of the people who were up for parole in this virtual hearing. And I just. I mean, I can't imagine how it must feel on the other end of that. There's this panel of the parole board, and they're sitting at this table. It's a virtual conference, actually. The people who were up for parole

[Erin Lotman]

were not in the room.

[Pasha Eaton]

They were also in there.

[Hannah Smith]

Virtually how many people were up for parole?

[Pasha Eaton]

I watched two. I watched the person who went before Dusty and then Dusty's. I don't know if there was another. So the gentleman who was up for parole prior to Dusty, I believe he was charged with murder that was a result of a burglary or something along those lines. They voted yes to parole him. And the reason being that he was very elderly and no longer a risk to society in their eyes.

[Hannah Smith]

How long had he been in prison, do you remember?

[Pasha Eaton]

Decades. Decades, I think since the mid-90s. So, you know, similar to Dusty.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

But, you know, you're sitting there looking at him, and he's an old man and he just wants to go be with his family and, you know, to the victim's family. I don't recall what was said on behalf of the victim's family or the victim in the parole hearing, but he acknowledged remorse and that this shouldn't have happened. And when you're looking at someone who's clearly not a risk to society and you're thinking about the time they've already served. I don't know. To me, it just was like, oh, my gosh, let him out.

[Erin Lotman]

Let him out.

[Hannah Smith]

Interesting.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

I mean, yeah, that makes sense. I feel like if I were the family member of the person killed, my argument would be, well, that person never got to grow old. They never got to, you know, they didn't have any other days left with their family. So I can also understand how maybe the family members would be against it. It's a hard decision.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. And that's the line the parole board is always trying to walk. And there was a big difference between the way that the parole board spoke about this person that they ended up paroling and then how they spoke about Dusty.

[Erin Lotman]

Oh, really?

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, they were way easier on him.

[Hannah Smith]

On Dusty or the first guy?

[Pasha Eaton]

No, on the first guy.

[Hannah Smith]

Really?

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. I think the votes were unanimous. I don't actually remember exactly, but I recall being like, oh, this was actually great. Like, I was just expecting the worst. And, you know, them sending this old man now back to prison for the rest of his life. But they didn't do that. They were like, you've served your time, you're no longer a risk. I think he also had some health issues that they were considering. And then it was Dusty's turn. And Dusty's sitting in this room, not in the actual room with the parole board. And Dusty gets the majority vote and

[Hannah Smith]

he is paroled three out of five or something.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, I think it was three out of five.

[Hannah Smith]

So did they start with the vote?

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, so they start with a vote, but it's like, if we're a parole board, I give my logic and reasoning and then I tell you my vote.

[Hannah Smith]

I see.

[Pasha Eaton]

And so you're listening to their whole explanation of their vote before getting their vote. And it's pretty clear how they're going to vote by what they're saying. But, you know, there was one person on the parole board who really was unhappy, clearly not going to vote in support of Dusty's release. And he talked about how your Navy Seal, this is such a stain on the military. And, you know, I just thought to myself, like, I just don't see it that way at all. And you know, I've never been a member of the military, and so I can't speak from the same perspective he's speaking from. But I'm looking at this person as a young, 20 something young adult who found themselves in this horrific situation and has already now done 30 years. So they move on to the next person. And that person was a yes, I Believe he's a former prosecutor. And he was like, I don't think that you were correctly charged for your role in her murder, that you didn't have a role in her actual murder. And I think you should have been charged for something else. And that sentence would have been up a long time ago.

[Hannah Smith]

12 months is what it would have been.

[Pasha Eaton]

And this person clearly did a deep dive into the court records and the trial and the case and the investigation. And, you know, I just thought, oh, that to me means so much, because why are we making these decisions based purely on emotion?

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

There's inevitably some of that because you have a victim and you're considering how their family's going to feel if they're revictimized by someone's release.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

And that matters, but it matters to an extent. And the rest of what matters is this person, at least to me, a citizen. Is this person a risk to society? Is this person. Have they done time that tells me that there has been some level of justice in this case.

[Hannah Smith]

Were they charged based on what the law says their crime deserves is a big one.

[Pasha Eaton]

Right.

[Hannah Smith]

Just because someone might have opinions about what you should do as a member of the military, that's irrelevant.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah.

[Hannah Smith]

What crime did he commit and what is the proper punishment? And that was done incorrectly.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah. So this guy, I thought, wow, I really appreciate that he is going off of his interpretation of the law and what was done incorrectly in his eyes in this case. And I thought, that's so meaningful. That means so much more to me than someone saying that it had to do with, like, the reputation of Navy SEALs. I'm like, I don't care about that right now.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah. And the reputation, by the way, of Navy SEALs or of any organization, if they claim to be honorable and care about justice and, you know, truth should be to try to find what really happened and to give people fair, you know, sentences, not just to punish. Punish for no reason. Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

It's like, for the sake of a reputation.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Pasha Eaton]

And that I was like, wow, there's a lot of emotion wrapped up in this decision. And that doesn't feel.

[Hannah Smith]

Maybe there were some people who didn't believe Billy Brown's reversal of his statement. Like, I wonder if that is ever part of it, because, you know, he came out and said that he lied, that he committed this murder himself, he was the only one that was part of it, and that he was upset that Dusty turned him in, and so he lied and pulled him under with him. But I wonder if there was some parole board Members who maybe didn't necessarily believe Billy Brown. I don't know if that was that brought up at all.

[Pasha Eaton]

I don't recall anyone saying that specifically, but there was one woman on the parole board who voted against Dusty's release who said, you know, I would just hope that in the future this parole board upholds what the sentencing was initially. And I thought, well, it's a bizarre take, because that is your whole right on this parole board is to decide, has someone done enough time? Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you would just like this process not to exist. I mean, Dusty was very respectful and quiet and listened. I'm just a person watching, and these are my personal opinions. And then the next person voted to release him and said, you know, she thought he had done 30 years and that was enough time and that she also saw issues with the trial and. Yeah. And so when Dallas Dua is released, I wish I had been able to record it. I don't know what I was expecting. I hadn't really given it that much thought as to, like, how he would actually react, but there was no, like, big reaction. And that makes sense to me. I mean, I can only imagine how it feels to go up against a panel of people deciding if you're gonna live the rest of your life in prison or not. And there's probably some part of you that never lets yourself fully go there.

[Hannah Smith]

Until the day you walk free. You're probably still on guard to think this could be reversed.

[Pasha Eaton]

Totally.

[Hannah Smith]

Yeah.

[Erin Lotman]

Wow.

[Hannah Smith]

So cool that you were able to watch it and tell us about what happened. And, you know, very exciting. We have since been in contact with Dusty and we actually did an interview

[Pasha Eaton]

with him, and you're gonna get to hear it next week.

[Hannah Smith]

Yes. So, you know, he is out. He's just very recently been released. By the time we talked to him, I think he had not even been out for a month.

[Pasha Eaton]

Yeah, he had not been out for a month yet when we spoke with him. And, yeah, we're so grateful that he gave us that time.

[Hannah Smith]

So definitely tune in next week to hear directly from Dusty.

[Pasha Eaton]

Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week. If you have a story for us, we would love to hear it. Our email is thenifexactlyrightmedia.com or you can find. Follow us on Instagram, henifepodcast or blueskyenifepodcast.

[Hannah Smith]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted and produced by me, Hannah Smith

[Pasha Eaton]

and me, Pasha Eaton. Our producers are Tom Bregel and Alexa Samarosi.

[Hannah Smith]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogle.

[Pasha Eaton]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.

[Hannah Smith]

Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.

[Pasha Eaton]

Artwork by Vanessa Lilac Executive produced by

[Hannah Smith]

Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Billy Brown]

Ever wonder how to make hosting look effortless? Here's a secret Getting ahead of the mess with new Reynolds Kitchen's Countertop Prep Paper Just lightly wet the counter beforehand so the paper grips and stays in place. Then lay down the Reynolds Kitchen's countertop prep paper so drips and spills stay on the paper, not all over your kitchen counter. You can roll out dough, prep a party spread or cook alongside family. When you're done, cleanup is as simple as lifting the paper and revealing that clean counter underneath. Effortless. You can use it for cooking and baking prep and even crafting, especially when you need extra working space. Because when the mess is already handled, you can focus on what matters the food, the people and the moment. It may look effortless, but now you know it's Reynolds Kitchens Countertop Prep Paper. Take a tip from me. Wet it, set it, prep it. Done. Make it easy. Make it with Reynolds Kitchens Countertop prep paper available now in the Reynolds Wrap aisle in Walmart, Target, Amazon and Costco.

[Hannah Smith]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Pasha Eaton]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3

[Erin Lotman]

month plan equivalent to $15 per month

[Hannah Smith]

Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes

[Erin Lotman]

and fees, extra fee.

[Redfin Sponsor]

MintMobile.com this is Andrea Gunning from Betrayal Travel Smarter not harder and America's Best Value Inn by Sinesta. With convenient locations from coast to coast

[Erin Lotman]

and value packed comfort at every turn,

[Redfin Sponsor]

it's a practical choice for road trips, quick getaways and everyday travel that keeps things simple without sacrificing comfort. And when you're a Sonesta Travel Pass member, staying at America's Best Value Inn means earning points towards free nights, upgrades

[Erin Lotman]

and more every time you stay.

[Redfin Sponsor]

Go to Sonesta.com to book your stay and unlock the best rates with Sonesta

[Erin Lotman]

Travel Pass here today, Rome tomorrow.

[Redfin Sponsor]

Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply.