The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

Episode Title: Victim Turned Scammer
Hosts: Hannah Smith & Patia Eaton
Release Date: March 26, 2026

Episode Overview

“Victim Turned Scammer” explores a complicated case of romance fraud and financial exploitation out of Oklahoma, focusing on Christine Joan Echo Hawk, a woman who became both a victim and a perpetrator within a multimillion-dollar romance scam. Through detailed storytelling, hosts Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton follow the investigation from the perspective of law enforcement, the victims, and Christine herself, providing insight into how such crimes unfold and examining the emotional impacts and legal consequences for everyone involved. The episode shines a light on how isolation, vulnerability, and manipulation can intersect to create ripple effects of harm.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to the Case

• The episode is set in Oklahoma and centers on Christine Echo Hawk, who became the focal point of a large-scale romance scam investigation.
• Patia introduces the story (04:18):

  “Today I have a story for you, Hannah... It’s another one from your home state of Oklahoma.”

• The discussion underscores the small-town context—Pawnee, Oklahoma, population less than 2,000.

2. Red Flags and the Banking Investigation

• The investigation is sparked at MidFirst Bank by fraud examiner Bill Moeller, who notices suspicious transactions beginning October 2024.
  • Large, out-of-state deposits made to Christine’s accounts are immediately moved to another local bank.
• (09:26) “The deposits are coming from four separate individuals. All of them are elderly women who live out of state.” — Patia

3. Victims’ Stories and Methods of Deception

• Each victim believed herself in a romantic relationship with a man she’d met online.
• Techniques used included:
  • Claims of needing money to unlock large sums (“I just need a little bit of money to... unlock this $2 million payment…” 10:49)
  • Plausible but unverifiable scenarios (oil tankers, financial portfolios from overseas, friendships rekindled from years past).
• Victims' losses ranged from tens of thousands up to $600,000, with one woman selling her fully paid-off home (12:03).

4. Bank Intervention and Attempted Cover-up

• A large transfer ($120,000) is intercepted by the fraud team (14:36–15:00).
• Christine attempts to justify the transfer to the bank by fabricating an invoice for a land purchase.
• (16:51) “To flash forward… Christine then contacts this victim and says here’s what you need to tell the bank. And so she’s orchestrating this.” — Patia

5. Investigation Reveals Layers of Deception

• The Consumer Protection Unit receives the referral in January 2025 and prepares to confront Christine.
• March 26, 2025: Christine is interviewed by Oklahoma Attorney General Agent Richard Lashar at the local police department.
• (22:51) “Christine tells him... before the interview even really gets going, Christine asks a question that is very telling. She says, if the victims get paid back, will this just all go away?” — Patia

6. Christine's Story: Victim or Perpetrator?

• Christine claims she started as a victim herself, caught in a romance scam with a man calling himself “Maurice De Niro.”
• She admits to seeing red flags but continued as a “money mover,” converting funds into cryptocurrency and forwarding them to “Maurice.”
• (24:06) “She believed that she’s in an online relationship with someone who is using her to help obtain money from people, but he’s the person behind the accounts.” — Patia

7. Legal Outcome and Sentencing

• Christine has no prior record, was well-regarded locally, and had suffered personal loss (husband’s death in 2021).
• She is charged with multiple counts related to laundering criminal proceeds and computer fraud.
• (29:11) “She’s 53 when she’s arrested in 2025.”
• Pleads guilty to all charges; sentenced to 62 years, with 8 years to serve, balance suspended (29:11).
• Ordered to pay over $620,000 restitution, but was indigent at sentencing.
• (32:49) “Christine was represented by her legal defense… the Oklahoma indigent defense system… so she actually didn’t have any money.”
• The masterminds remain unidentified and unlocated, likely overseas or untraceable via crypto.

8. Themes and Social Commentary

• Explores the duality of Christine’s role—both manipulated and manipulator.
• Highlights the vulnerability of elderly people and the devastating impact of romance fraud.
• (34:07) “It’s also, you know, these scams start so small... And then you become sort of like, bonded to someone through what you think this trauma is that they’re experiencing. You feel like a hero. And who doesn’t want to feel like a hero?” — Patia
• Addresses the modern risks of online dating, especially for older generations.
• (36:53) Patia: “Some of these women were just on Facebook. Someone reaches out… You don’t think of those things. Well, of course, you know, if that’s somebody’s grandmother… But if you know someone who’s interacting with people online, the risk is, I think, the same.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Twist of Victimhood:
  • (22:51) “If the victims get paid back, will this just all go away?” — Christine Echo Hawk, via Patia
• Scale of the Scam:
  • (26:43) “Investigators estimate that $1.5 million has flowed through these accounts.” — Patia
• Reflecting on Blame and Responsibility:
  • (35:45) Hannah: “If you’re the family members of the victims... it probably, in some sense, when you hear, okay, there’s legal action being taken that might encourage you, but there’s no good outcome... it doesn’t give you your money back.”
• On Red Flags and Manipulation:
  • (30:18) Patia: “It’s like, wow, you know, it’s a tricky one because she knew what she was doing was wrong... but given the timeline of losing her husband and everything else, I think it makes sense that she had 54 years suspended.”
• On Protecting Loved Ones:
  • (37:22) Hannah: “...telling someone that’s excited about someone that they’ve met online that this is a scam and it’s probably not real is such a tricky conversation to have.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Episode Start/Intro: 03:54
• Case Introduction: 04:18–05:10
• Initial Bank Investigation: 07:11–08:33
• Victims’ Stories: 09:27–13:23
• Bank’s Action (Intercepted Transfer): 14:36–15:06
• Christine’s First Interview: 22:40–23:14
• Christine’s Backstory/Personal Loss: 28:43–29:11
• Legal Outcome and Sentencing: 29:11–32:49
• Social Impact and Elder Fraud Discussion: 34:04–38:28
• End of Main Content: ~37:47

Concluding Takeaways / Hosts’ Reflections

• The case highlights the devastating power of online romance and elder fraud, particularly when targeting isolated or grieving individuals.
• The distinction between victim and perpetrator is explored: Christine was manipulated into breaking the law and playing an active role in the scam.
• Victims, even when scams are detected and prosecuted, almost never get their financial losses back—crypto transfers make recovery nearly impossible.
• The hosts urge listeners to talk to vulnerable loved ones about the risks of online relationships and the importance of skepticism in digital interactions.
• (38:28) Patia: “The only thing we can do to protect against this is talk to our friends and family... especially in those older generations, the shame and embarrassment, yeah, it’s just hard to swallow.”

Additional Recommendations (Non-True-Crime Content)

• Briefly, Patia and Hannah discuss the HBO show "Neighbors," which features real neighbor disputes, as a lighter note before closing.

For listeners: This episode offers a nuanced look at the blurry line between victim and criminal in romance scams and is an important listen for anyone with loved ones active online, particularly the elderly. The empathy and critical lens provided by the hosts make for a compelling, thought-provoking story.