The Knowledge Project Podcast — Episode Summary
Michael Ovitz: The Business of Relationships
Host: Shane Parrish | Guest: Michael Ovitz
Release: February 3, 2026
Overview
This episode features Michael Ovitz, legendary co-founder of Creative Artists Agency (CAA), top talent representative, consultant, investor, and one of Hollywood’s most powerful dealmakers. Together, Shane Parrish and Ovitz explore the foundational principles that drive sustained business success—truth, teamwork, voracious curiosity, and momentum—while delving into the nuances of building world-class relationships, managing ego, learning from failure, and the timeless art of putting ideas and people together.
Key Themes & Topics
1. The Ephemeral Nature of Power
- Power is fleeting: Ovitz repeatedly cautions against building an identity around industry status or "power lists."
"It's an ephemeral thing, power, and it's fleeting and it doesn't last. And if you don't believe that, take a look at anyone that's had it. It's like a lease. It has a closed end and never a good one."
— Michael Ovitz [00:21]
2. The Value of Curiosity, Reading, and Context
- Learning as power: Ovitz, like his contemporaries David Geffen and Barry Diller, attributes his continual success to an insatiable intellectual curiosity and reading habit.
"Knowledge is power. And it works for you and against you. And it works for you if you embrace it, use it, read and try to index it in your head for context."
— Michael Ovitz [02:29] - Modern equivalent of the mailroom: Ovitz sees the internet as today’s source of information, but notes there’s no shortcut to sustained, deliberate learning.
3. CAA’s Revolutionary Operating Principles
- Telling the truth: CAA’s pioneering policy was not to lie; honesty with both clients and colleagues helped attract top talent and retain clients.
"Don’t lie if you don’t have an answer... Tell you what, Shane, I'm going to get back to you because I don't know the answer to that question, but I'm going to find out. That's highly acceptable."
— Michael Ovitz [03:15] - Teamwork over ego: CAA broke old models by assigning multiple agents to each client, ensuring seamless service and no competition for credit.
"We didn't have any ego about who handled who. We didn't have any ego about passing information. We didn't have any ego about anything because the clients were in the ego business, not us."
— Michael Ovitz [05:58]
4. The Art and Challenge of Working with Artists
- On handling artists’ egos: Ovitz shares personal anecdotes about working with Paul Newman and the difficulties of being a high-profile artist.
"It's a tough gig, really do maybe."
— Michael Ovitz [08:16] - Truthfulness with creatives: CAA insisted on honest, sometimes tough feedback—avoiding the industry norm of empty flattery.
5. Staying Grounded Amid Success
- Rooting success in family and principle: Ovitz maintains humility by focusing on close family, privacy, and not believing press hype.
"All the publicity that I got, both good and bad, was nonsense. Same people that said good things about me later would write bad things about me, and then they'd write good things, then bad things. None of it fazed me, frankly."
— Michael Ovitz [26:58]
6. Investment and People Principles
- Attributes of founders: Passion, depth of purpose, openness to critique, and ability to communicate are paramount—arrogance is a disqualifier.
“Founders need to be passionate. They need to be deep into their idea... They can't be arrogant. It's critical. They're not arrogant. I find that arrogant founders have a tendency to fail more than non-arrogant founders.”
— Michael Ovitz [31:22]
7. Lessons from Failure and Resilience
-
Failure as fuel: Ovitz defies cultures that stigmatize failure, viewing it as something to be learned from, not hidden.
"Failure in American society is a badge of honor. We all fail... You just get back up on your horse and you keep riding."
— Michael Ovitz [45:05] -
Wisdom from Crichton: Ovitz credits author Michael Crichton for advice on perspective.
"Every time I made a mistake or I got some bad publicity or something, he'd call me and he'd make light out of it. And he'd always said to me, just remember something... there's always another rodeo."
— Michael Ovitz [47:59]
8. Momentum, Time, and Focus
- Momentum as a key force: Ovitz likens business, life, and even cities to trains—momentum must be built and never taken for granted.
"Momentum to me is the single most important thing in anything we do."
— Michael Ovitz [76:46] - Guarding time: Ovitz stresses the value of using time strategically and reflects on the importance of preserving time for family and growth pursuits.
"I could have cut back 10% of my business time...and use that 10% of my time for my family, for my art collecting, for reading, for other things that were important to me."
— Michael Ovitz [85:39]
9. Trust, Betrayal, and Loyalty
- Trust above all: Ovitz is unwavering in the importance of trust in relationships—once broken, it leaves a lasting impact.
"Trust to me, is the most important, important thing between human beings. I don't handle betrayal well. I don't think that there's any justification for it under any condition. And I react very badly to it."
— Michael Ovitz [87:27]
10. A Multifaceted Definition of Success
- Success as pointillist painting: Ovitz’s vision of success is broad and abstract—a composite of small contributions that, together, create a life worth celebrating.
"Success is a great Seurat painting. Seurat was the great pointillist...our lives are made up of a lot of little dots. And when they tell the right picture, you hit it."
— Michael Ovitz [93:31]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On receiving advice:
"Tell your clients the truth. People in the entertainment business were just always lied to...We never did that, ever."
— Michael Ovitz [13:10] -
On the rules of CAA:
"Everyone had to be incredibly well read. People were not allowed to recommend rules or material that they didn't believe in."
— Michael Ovitz [10:23] -
On building businesses:
"I'm a monopolist. I believe in Peter Thiel's theory on monopoly. I don't believe that you should have competition. They have to be eliminated. That's the American way."
— Michael Ovitz [41:21] -
On building and maintaining relationships:
"I collect art and people. Those are the two things I collect. And art is easy because it's static... people is as fascinating, probably more fascinating, but takes a lot of time and I put that time in if I really feel that the relationship's a two way street."
— Michael Ovitz [18:35] -
On meetings and learning:
"I love the internet and I love being on my computer to the point where my significant other wants to kill me because I just love surfing through the Internet and going down rabbit holes."
— Michael Ovitz [01:19] -
On what drives him today:
"There are two things that drive me. One are my five grandchildren... The other thing that's important to me is I can't wait to get up in the morning and meet with a founder."
— Michael Ovitz [50:19] -
On managing information overload:
"I'm overwhelmed with information, and I. I love discovery. So there's just not enough hours in the day."
— Michael Ovitz [62:05] -
On the problem with mediocrity:
"Mediocrity to me is a disease that you have to get rid of at all costs. I can't stand talking to people that sort of suffer from that disease where they have no interest."
— Michael Ovitz [67:51]
Key Segments & Timestamps
- Ephemeral nature of power in Hollywood: [00:21]
- Mailroom origins & voracious learning: [01:19]
- Rules at CAA—truth and teamwork: [03:15], [04:16]
- Honest feedback for clients, egos in the arts: [05:58], [14:08]
- Avoiding the “power list” trap: [26:58]
- Founders’ success attributes: [31:22]
- Failures and American resilience: [45:05]
- Michael Crichton’s wisdom: [47:59]
- Momentum as life principle: [76:46]
- On building vs. competing: [41:21]
- Trust and betrayal: [87:27]
- Definition of success: [93:31]
Tone & Language
Michael Ovitz speaks plainly, with directness and candor, and often peppers his answers with personal anecdotes drawn from decades at the top of entertainment and business. Parrish’s questions are thoughtful and open, inviting Ovitz to expand into digressions that highlight both principles and stories. The tone is reflective, practical, and at times, philosophical.
For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In
This episode is a masterclass on how big success flows from telling the truth, being voraciously curious, learning from mistakes, treating relationships as assets, and playing the long game. Ovitz’s insights on teamwork, the dangers of ego, the nature of power, and the necessity of momentum are valuable for anyone building a business, managing relationships, or searching for a broader, more nuanced definition of success.