He Listened to This Podcast and Made $32K in His First 2 Months⏐Ep. #237

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Koerner Office - Business Ideas and Deep Dives with Chris Koerner

Episode #237: He Listened to This Podcast and Made $32K in His First 2 Months
Date: October 22, 2025
Guests: Tyler Mumford and Nick
Host: Chris Koerner

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Overview

This episode spotlights Tyler Mumford, who, after being inspired by a previous podcast episode about the stump grinding business, executed the idea and made $32,000 in his first two months—$9,000 while still working full-time and $23,000 upon going full-time. Chris, Nick, and Tyler dive deep into Tyler’s journey, actionable steps to replicate his results, real-world business hacks for local home services, and the PRA framework for acquiring customers. The episode is packed with honest insights, tactical advice, and practical breakdowns of the risks, rewards, and common pitfalls.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Inspiration to Execution

• Tyler listened to Chris and Nick discuss stump grinding (from Ep. #37), replayed the segment repeatedly, and quickly moved to test his market after hearing the idea.

  • “I listened to it a hundred times. Two months later, quit my job and made $26,000 net profit.” (Chris, 00:52)
  • Timeline:
    • July 11: Hears podcast episode.
    • July 12: Begins market testing.
    • August 3: Runs first stump job.

• Motivation for the leap:

  • “There is a business model that fits everyone out there, but you have to have a box around it. Once you find it, you can’t be afraid to actually go and pursue it.” (Tyler, 20:11)
  • “Everyone thinks I’m like this go-getter … there was years before that that I felt like the guy that would never do anything about it.” (Tyler, 20:39)

2. The Stump Grinding Business Model

Startup Lean and Test Fast

• Tyler kept risk low by renting equipment and testing as a side hustle.

  • “Kept it low … did everything myself. I wasn’t scared to go do the work … So I don’t have that cost yet.” (Tyler, 15:01)

• Transitioned from renting to ownership only after proving the model.

Unit Economics and Pricing

• $200 minimum per job; $7/inch pricing in Utah County (down to $3/inch in other markets).

  • “Here where I live, I charge about seven bucks an inch.” (Tyler, 05:10)

• Average job: $300.

  • Can do 5-6 jobs/day at ~$300/job.
  • “Usually in week one of the month … I pay off my monthly expenses.” (Tyler, 28:10)

• Overhead: $4–5K/month, largely from truck/lease, storage, fuel, and insurance (about $400/mo).

• “The unit economics honestly aren’t great if you’re renting. But that gets you learning, it gets you traction, it gets you some good reviews.” (Chris, 26:55)

3. Customer Acquisition: The PRA Framework (Piggyback, Reviews, Answer the Phone)

Piggyback (B2B Subcontracting is the Entry Point)

• Initial customers came from sub-contracting for tree companies: “Probably my first $50K of revenue was just from subs.” (Tyler, 02:53)
• Other sources: Landscapers, fence installers, concrete companies.
  • “You scrape big lists through Outscraper … just cold text in bunches, so 20 to 30.” (Tyler, 30:19, 30:30)

Reviews

• Leveraged being the last on the job site to “backdoor” reviews from homeowners, even when subbing for other companies.
  • “I walked up to the homeowner and was like, hey, if you felt like I did a good job today … could you give me a review?” (Tyler, 03:47)
• Fast review accumulation skyrocketed his Google ranking:
  • “That’s how I got my first 70, 75 reviews.” (Tyler, 03:47)
  • “The day that I started my GMB, I think I got like 15 reviews that day.” (Tyler, 35:04)

Answer the Phone

• Responsiveness is the “number one differentiator”, especially for contractors needing quick turnaround.
  • “You won’t call my phone if it’s my business line and get a missed call.” (Tyler, 36:02)

4. Avoiding Major Pitfalls and De-Risking

• Recommends starting part-time and renting gear to keep overhead and risk down.
• Seasonality and savings: Entered winter with ~$20K in savings; winter work is still available if you hustle.
• Lower cost structure (leasing, no employees, minimal initial marketing).
• “I was going to do it anyway if it didn’t work out: truck and trailer are still useful. Worst case scenario, grinders and trailers don’t really lose value.” (Tyler, 11:50, 13:21)

5. Overcoming Fear and Action Bias

• Jump in: Both Tyler and Chris advocate for “just doing it” rather than being paralyzed by over-preparing.

  • “Listen—practice is unnecessary friction to just launching. Don’t practice, just do it.” (Chris, 08:31)

• Tyler basically learned with minimal prep, watched a few YouTube videos, and “ripped it on a job.”

  • “I drove it around my parking lot … actual cutting part, I figured out on the job.” (Tyler, 08:40)

6. Business Growth and Freedom

• Reached income parity with former B2B sales job ($175K/year) by month two.

  • “It was right away, basically that first month when you were full time, you made more than if you had not quit.” (Chris & Tyler, 12:36)

• Now averages $15-25K/month revenue, with $15-20K/month profit during peak season.

  • “Second month … I probably like 15 to 20, maybe 25, depending on the month.” (Tyler, 27:31)

• Mix of B2B and direct-to-consumer jobs (now about 60/40 or 70/30).

• Sets up for scalability, potential to outsource and “autopilot” operations while pursuing other ventures.

7. Memorable Quotes & Tactical Takeaways

• On Reviews:
  “If you didn’t document, if you didn’t get the review, it didn’t happen.” (Nick, 34:20)

• On Action:
  “Your shoes, your Timberlands in the background and the grass or the shavings in the background of the picture of you holding the business card, it’s not AI generated, it’s real.” (Chris, 32:28)

• On Differentiation:
  “Responsiveness is number one with contractors because they’re just like me, they want to get paid.” (Tyler, 29:01)

• On Freedom:
  “The freedom that I have now is unmatched compared to when I was in a W2 job.” (Tyler, 38:25)

8. Horror Stories & Reality Checks

• Not passive income—requires hard work.

• Accidents: Hit sprinkler and private electric lines (and paid for repairs).

  • “Hitting sprinkler lines, hitting electric lines … Water just started spraying through their window.” (Tyler, 21:59)
  • “I thought sparks flying is just an expression. No, it was horrifying.” (Chris & Tyler, 23:29)

• Insurance: Essential, about $400/month.

  • “Buy insurance. You just buy insurance. … and you pay it with a few jobs.” (Chris & Tyler, 22:49)

9. Scaling & Community

• Tyler created a playbook/community for new stump grinders; claims more than a dozen have started successful businesses.
  • “10-12 guys are full stump grinders across the country from a little thing I typed up.” (Tyler, 24:56)
  • “We don’t sell to another person in the same town … we want [our members] to thrive.” (Tyler, 40:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:30 – Setting the scene: Tyler’s early results and income before quitting his job.
• 03:00–05:00 – Subcontracting to tree companies, “backdooring” reviews.
• 06:00–08:00 – Pricing, minimums, and job differentiation.
• 10:30–12:15 – Transition from side hustle to full-time; quitting the job.
• 13:00–15:00 – De-risking with savings, overcoming winter, cost breakdown.
• 18:30–20:40 – Mindset shifts, why test and iterate.
• 24:40–27:10 – Full PRA framework; text outreach, reviews strategy.
• 35:00–36:10 – Review “text blast” for fast GMB growth.
• 37:00–39:10 – Scaling, autopilot potential, freedom to pursue new ventures.
• 39:45–40:20 – Playbook/community and market protections.

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Notable Quotes (with Speaker Attribution)

• Chris Koerner [00:52]: “Whoever said that money doesn’t grow on trees never thought to check in the stump.”
• Tyler Mumford [20:11]: “There is a business model that fits everyone out there … But you have to have, like, a box around it, and once you find it, you can’t be afraid to actually go and pursue it.”
• Chris Koerner [08:31]: “Listen, practice is unnecessary friction to just launching. Don’t practice, just do it.”
• Tyler Mumford [28:10]: “Usually in week one of the month is how I think about it. I pay off my monthly expenses.”
• Nick [34:20]: “If you didn’t document it, it didn’t happen. … Yes, you got paid that one time for service, but it doesn’t actually translate to broader brand-building.”
• Tyler Mumford [38:25]: “The freedom that I have now is, like, unmatched compared to when I was in a W2 job.”
• Chris Koerner [32:28]: “Your shoes, your Timberlands in the background ... it’s not AI generated, it’s real.”
• Tyler Mumford [15:01]: “We kept it low. … I did everything myself.”
• Nick [29:01]: “Responsiveness is number one with contractors because they’re just like me, they want to get paid.”

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Action Steps for Listeners

• Start small: Rent equipment, test the market, do jobs on the side.
• Leverage B2B relationships: Cold text tree and landscaping companies offering to handle their stump work.
• Accumulate reviews relentlessly: Approach homeowners after jobs and wait for them to pull out their phone.
• Be hyper-responsive: Always answer your phone to win contractor and homeowner jobs.
• Use profits to transition full-time once the business supports your lifestyle.
• Continue to diversify leads between contractor referrals and Google ranking.

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Final Takeaways

Tyler’s story exemplifies the payoff of taking direct action, minimizing risk, leveraging business relationships, and executing consistently. The stump grinding model isn’t glamorous, but it’s lucrative, proves that blue-collar businesses offer a viable entrepreneurial path, and can quickly create both income and freedom. The PRA framework is applicable across many home-service niches. For anyone looking to build a side hustle or escape their current job, this episode is both a paint-by-numbers guide and a jolt of actionable inspiration.

Transcript

[Chris Kerner]

How much did you make before you even quit your job?

[Tyler Mumford]

On this, I did nine grand of revenue. With the full time, $32,000 in your first two months. It's one stump sitting there. I have a $200 minimum.

[Chris Kerner]

200 bucks for five minutes of work.

[Nick]

What percentage of the time do they respond?

[Tyler Mumford]

30, 40%. I didn't even have a Google my business until like month four or five. And worst case scenario, this business, the grinders don't really lose value, trailers don't lose value. I would have had a truck that I would have drove to my new job.

[Chris Kerner]

If someone's watching this and they're like, I'm broke, but I love this business, what is the most cost efficient way to start it?

[Tyler Mumford]

You could rent the truck, you could rent a trailer, and you could rent a stump grinder by the day.

[Nick]

What were you making in your B2B?

[Tyler Mumford]

About 175k.

[Chris Kerner]

How do you find all these guys?

[Tyler Mumford]

You scrape big lists throughout scraper.

[Chris Kerner]

I just find it incredible that you spent zero dollars to send a text, you spend zero dollars to call them, and that five minute investment pays you hundreds to thousands of dollars per month.

[Tyler Mumford]

Can I tell you my number one contractor, how much he gave me this summer? Yeah, I think he gave me 25 grand. In four or five months, I'm out of here.

[Nick]

It's ridiculous.

[Chris Kerner]

Whoever said that money doesn't grow on trees never thought to check in the stump. So today I'm going to tell you about Tyler. Tyler is a 28 year old that one year ago was listening to my podcast where I were talking about the stump grinding business and how profitable it would be. He liked that segment so much he listened to it a hundred times. Two months later he had quit his job and made $26,000 of net profit. And the best part, he has no employee. So today we're going to cover how to do what he does, how to avoid any landmines, and most importantly, how to find customers. So today I'm going to talk to Tyler, I'm going to talk to Nick, we're going to break down this business and show you exactly what you need to do to copy everything he did. So let's.

[Podcast Host]

All right, if you are a long time listener of this pod, you may remember episode 37 where my friend Nick and I talk about the stump grinding business. And then Tyler Mumford in Provo, Utah, heard it, loved it, was inspired by it, started his own stump grinding business. He did 9K the first month, 23K the second month, and then in episode 140, Nick and I had him on my podcast to talk to him exactly about how it's gone. Well, this is part three. This. This is the follow up to the follow up. This one is the most in depth version yet. Because I flew to Provo, Utah a couple months ago, I caught a BYU game. I met up with Tyler, I met up with Nick, and we went and ground some stumps and I got a.

[Chris Kerner]

Ton more details on how a stump.

[Podcast Host]

Grinding business is going. So if you are listening to this on audio only, we have specifically edited this episode to be just for you. But if you want a little more dimension to this episode, then you can either watch on Spotify video or on YouTube and it should go live on YouTube on October 22nd or 23rd.

[Tyler Mumford]

Third.

[Podcast Host]

Please enjoy and be inspired.

[Chris Kerner]

How many jobs did you do before you got like a big fancy trailer?

[Tyler Mumford]

I had like 70k in revenue before I got anything wrapped or any branding or I think before I even had to Google my business.

[Nick]

They've already cut. You got a call from who? The homeowner. Really?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

How'd they find you?

[Tyler Mumford]

I'm like number one on in Utah County.

[Chris Kerner]

Not to brag. How are you number one?

[Tyler Mumford]

A lot of reviews.

[Chris Kerner]

So name of the game.

[Tyler Mumford]

Name of the game. And I actually kind of backdoored some reviews. So this is kind of cool because it's a sub business to start. So everything, probably my first 50 grand of revenue was just from subs.

[Chris Kerner]

Explain what you mean by that.

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh, okay. So walking through this, a tree company came here at one time and took the trees down. What the tree company hates doing is they hate doing the stumps themselves. They have to bring another trailer. They have to bring this whole setup outside of their chip truck. Their chipper. You guys get it. You guys have a tree company.

[Chris Kerner]

They hate doing the stumps for the same reason you hate hauling away the shaving.

[Tyler Mumford]

Exactly.

[Chris Kerner]

It just doesn't go into your workflow.

[Tyler Mumford]

It's another service not in the workflow. And so I approached a bunch of different tree companies and asked who was doing their stumps for them. Some of them had their own machine, some rented, some were using another sub. The people that rented are using another sub are like my prime customer. Because if you're renting, hey, I can save you money and a headache of doing it. If you're using another sub, I can be better than your sub. Do it for maybe a dollar cheaper or do it better, be more on time, whatever it is.

[Chris Kerner]

What do you mean you backdoored into those Reviews.

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh, so yeah, so that's how I got my first 50 grand of revenue, was doing jobs for tree companies. But the thing is that wasn't my customer technically. But what the tree company doesn't know is I'm the last person here on the job site. So after the job, after everything, once I got my GMB live, I would do the job. I would meet them first just to be a good sub and just say, hey, I'm Tyler, I'm with a different company, I'm here to do your stump. I would do the job and then walk up to the homeowner and be like, hey, if you felt like I did a good job today and you know, I put on a little charm. So hey, could you give me a review? They were giving the company that didn't even land the customer review. And so that's how I got my first 70, 75 reviews. And then it's not the most competitive industry in the world, so it's not super hard to get to the top.

[Nick]

Did you know that when you started or did you go with the thesis of like, oh, I'm going to go to be a sub. That's how I'm going to get all my business.

[Tyler Mumford]

I thought it was going to be a complete sub business. That's kind of the idea that I heard from your guys podcast and that idea going in. But slowly but surely I was, I was hearing about other guys getting jobs from Google. So I was like, oh, there has to be some revenue there. There's not a ton because usually people have this out when the tree is out. But if you buy a house or whatever it is and you're inheriting like a beat up backyard, there's stumps and things that need done. So they'll look up stump removal. And I come up.

[Nick]

The crazy thing is, especially with the changes in it, you've got ChatGPT, which is kind of eating Google's lunch on the search side. Yeah, but Google business profile, I mean that's the name of the game, especially for local businesses like this. That's not going away. It's only growing in popularity. Okay, so how do you bid this? Like I look at this, I'm, I don't know what I'm doing. It's a. Yeah, It's a stump. $50.

[Tyler Mumford]

It's a great question. You kind of eye it a bit more than you do full measurements. But if it's one stump sitting there, I have a $200 minimum. So if you want me to show up to your backyard, it's going to be $200 whether it's this big or you know, and then it's on a price per inch. So you measure the diameter. Here in where I live, I charge about seven bucks an inch. Down south, where there's more trees, I've heard guys charge as low as like three bucks an inch. But they're getting tons bigger machines and tons more labor. And they're year round and they're year round and yeah, so there's different price per inches. For example, 18 inches from the widest point. From the widest point. I always try to eye the widest point. Nick, you're great at math. 7 times 18.

[Nick]

7. 18 is $126.

[Tyler Mumford]

Okay, $126. So for this it would just be 200 bucks.

[Nick]

But you want to measure like most men. You want to measure where you get the longest.

[Chris Kerner]

From the base.

[Nick]

From the base.

[Tyler Mumford]

From the base.

[Nick]

Wow, that's interesting.

[Tyler Mumford]

This takes me about five minutes.

[Chris Kerner]

200 bucks for five minutes of work.

[Tyler Mumford]

Not every job's that easy. You got to be careful because you're not just including your own man hours. Like this is a very expensive machine and it depreciates. So you have to price jobs well so you don't lose.

[Chris Kerner]

How tall is too tall?

[Tyler Mumford]

Too tall is about 20 inches. It depends on your grinder. But 20 inches off the ground? Yeah, there's a trade off. So the taller it is, the more chips that are going to come off it. So if you're doing the cleanup, a lot of times you want to cut it as low as possible before you grind. That's why I have a really cool chainsaw with a three foot bar in the back of my truck, which is cool.

[Chris Kerner]

So instead of like turning it down or calling a tree trimming business, you'll just pull out the chainsaw?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, yeah. And my rule is I'll cut anything that's below 6 to 8ft.

[Nick]

Does your website have tree trimming, land clearing, and stump grinding? Because you just described three different businesses right there. Am I right?

[Chris Kerner]

That's right.

[Tyler Mumford]

It's true. I do not. Reason being is I, I try to stay in my lane because so many tree guys give me so much business that I don't want to cannibalize that business.

[Nick]

And you don't want to do that.

[Tyler Mumford]

And I don't want to do it. But I have subbed out a few tree jobs now because I my numbers around and so I've made some good money that way. We're getting a lot faster, a lot easier to do it. There is some things to learn with the machine, but you're not going to break it.

[Chris Kerner]

How did you find this exact job?

[Tyler Mumford]

This one came from Google. So they just found me just organic in Google. I do Google guaranteed.

[Nick]

What's Google guaranteed?

[Tyler Mumford]

Basically, Google guarantees the service of certain businesses by knowing that they're insured and they have. They hit a certain level of requirement and then you pay per ad, but they put you at the top. If you look up a service on Google, they'll have at the top Google guaranteed businesses. And I come up there.

[Chris Kerner]

Is it the same as lsa?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yes, similar. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think it's the same.

[Chris Kerner]

You have to go through more of a verification process.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You know what? If you're an actually person, guess what? He's grinding stumps. Okay.

[Tyler Mumford]

That's. This is what I'm good at.

[Nick]

Did you get training? Did you go out with somebody?

[Tyler Mumford]

I Watched there's like seven YouTube videos of guys grinding stumps on YouTube. Most of them even have a remote machine. So it wasn't even applicable to this. And I kind of was like, all right, I kind of get it kind of. And then I just. I ripped it on a job.

[Chris Kerner]

Did you do like a practice job or anything?

[Tyler Mumford]

I drove it.

[Chris Kerner]

Showed up to your first paid job.

[Tyler Mumford]

I didn't even have any. I didn't know where to get a practice job. The tree company sent me one and I was like, all right, let's. Let's do it. It was a backyard job, open backyard. I was very lucky with my first job. It wasn't super scary. Didn't have any complic. Or else I probably would have quit the first day. But, yeah, I just kind of ripped it and. And we got it done.

[Nick]

That's a Kris Kuerner special right there. So I'm on the other end of the spectrum. You and Chris are like, oh, how hard could it be? I'm just going to go freaking figure it out. I'm going to be like, well, it's like a diagram. Show exactly what degree I need to lower it by. There's probably an in between. What would you recommend to somebody who's, like, just starting? Just jump in like you did. Or like, should you get some practice first?

[Tyler Mumford]

You can get some practice, definitely. If you're starting, that's probably what I recommend. I love it. I love it.

[Nick]

He's like, you could. He's just. He's just being nice about it.

[Tyler Mumford]

I don't think it's overcomplicated. If you really Wanted practice. Come shadow me for a day. Fly out to ut shadow me for a day, and I'll. I'll teach you. But I actually. I think you can. You can do this job.

[Chris Kerner]

Listen, practice is unnecessary friction to just launching. Don't practice, Just do it.

[Tyler Mumford]

I agree. I agree.

[Chris Kerner]

If you worry about practicing too much, you may never get to the thing.

[Tyler Mumford]

Totally. I drove it around my parking lot that I parked the trailer at for a few times just to make sure I looked like I could kind of drive it. And then. Yeah. The actual cutting part, I figured out on the job. Well, I will say my salesman hated me, the one that rented me the machine to start, because I called him like, once a day for a couple weeks. Like, dude, it's making this noise. He's like, yeah, that's normal. Oh, it's.

[Chris Kerner]

It's doing this. He's like grinding a stump.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Chris Kerner]

That's the grinding a stump.

[Tyler Mumford]

He made me feel very dumb many times. He was nice about it, but he. I was like, yeah, I'm an idiot.

[Chris Kerner]

And then one day you called him and like, hey, I'm flooding an apartment with a sprinkler. He's like, that's not normal.

[Tyler Mumford]

He's like, I can't help you. And I was like, great. All right, we'll figure it out. Roughly what size are we talking? Are we talking a foot across, three feet across? What does it look like?

[Nick]

Maybe between two and a half and three feet across.

[Tyler Mumford]

Okay, they're good size. I'll get you an exact quote over text. But three stumps that are all like three feet across were probably somewhere around. Around $800 to grind those out somewhere if. If they're that size. If I can just text you real quick, and you can text back a picture of the three stumps and just a diameter measurement. And if you get me that, that's all I need for a full quote, and then I can send that over to you. And then if we find a good price that works, we can get you on the schedule probably as soon as Wednesday this week. We're pretty busy right now, but we could definitely find a time to get you in. Okay, awesome.

[Nick]

Sounds good.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, text me and I will send you a picture right away. Perfect. What was your name again?

[Chris Kerner]

Emily.

[Tyler Mumford]

Emily. Cool.

[Chris Kerner]

I'm Tyler.

[Tyler Mumford]

I'm the owner. Thank you.

[Nick]

How many calls a day do you get?

[Tyler Mumford]

Two to three. Probably two to three. It depends. Contractors, jobs. I'm adding a day. I'm probably adding anywhere from like three to five a day during the Busy season.

[Nick]

So two to three calls a day. How many jobs does that turn into?

[Tyler Mumford]

Probably, I probably close rate. 60% of my close rate. Most guys aren't answering their phone. Most guys aren't getting quotes pretty fast. A lot of, a lot of people I compete with are side hustle guys, which is totally fine. But if I'm. I can, I can beat them in pretty much everything.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Tyler Mumford]

So you prioritize answering the phone. Exactly how much did you make before.

[Chris Kerner]

You even quit your job? On this?

[Tyler Mumford]

My first month was August of 2024 and I did nine grand of revenue with the full time.

[Nick]

With a full time job.

[Tyler Mumford]

With a full time job. I did multiple jobs in Utah. You get the luxury of a lot of daylight. So I worked nine to probably three or four at that old job that month. I would do jobs before I'd wake up at like 5:45, grab the trailer, go do a job, go to the office, change in the office bathroom downstairs. I would park my trailer two parking lots away so that no one knew that I was grinding stumps because it was like I felt. I don't know why I felt embarrassed, but I felt embarrassed. And then I'd go to work the full day and then I'd have my grinder already at the parking lot, get in the truck at 4 and then go rip like three jobs after work. And then I was home by 8:30. It was still light.

[Chris Kerner]

So 9,000 before you quit your job. And then once you quit your job at the beginning of month two, what did you do that month?

[Tyler Mumford]

That month we just rocket fuel. It went to. We did 23k in the month of 23,000. Yes.

[Chris Kerner]

I think that's such an important distinction because you crushed it while you had a job.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

Which is awesome. That tells people that you don't need to quit. But then when you did quit and put all your chips in, you really crushed it totally. Right.

[Tyler Mumford]

It was such a good example of that. And I just remember we had a pre planned vacation from before I ever started stump grinding to California is the end of August. And we talked that whole trip about me quitting my job. And I finally came home and I was like, all right, I'm gonna do it. And I walked into the office, quit my job, and after that I was like, all right, I have to pay for me and my wife's life.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Tyler Mumford]

Through this business, I worked.

[Chris Kerner]

Like, what was that feeling like when you walked out of the office? Were you scared or were you excited?

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh, it was electric.

[Chris Kerner]

It's usually not anywhere in between, Right?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. I drove my grinder to the office because I had a full day of jobs right after I quit.

[Nick]

You just rode on the grinder?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wrote on the ground, I quit. No. It was the most electric feeling in the world walking out of there, just knowing I didn't really like my job then. It was a good job, but I didn't like it.

[Nick]

$32,000 in your first two months.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

How long did it take you to make more in the business than you were making in your job?

[Tyler Mumford]

To replace my income? It kind of honestly is about to say right away, like, I don't know if I had the exact numbers like carrying across, because in business.

[Chris Kerner]

Well, in sales, it's lumpy.

[Tyler Mumford]

Exactly. I didn't have the big commission checks coming in. It was more steady. Some things that I normally would have had as personal expenses were running through the business. So all in, though, it felt like.

[Chris Kerner]

Right away, basically that first month when you were full time in the business, you made more than if you had not quit.

[Tyler Mumford]

I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I never felt like we ever took like a dip in lifestyle or anything. The reason I also quit wasn't just because I wanted to go full time. I was looking at my schedule for the next two weeks and I realized if I did every job that I had, I would not be able to keep a job. Every stump job you had to choose, you were forced.

[Chris Kerner]

In a way.

[Tyler Mumford]

I would have been fired for sure. I just had too much work. So she saw that on my schedule and she's like, oh, that sounds like a good opportunity. You know, made it easy on it.

[Chris Kerner]

But it was also probably nerve wracking in a sense that you're in a seasonal market and you're going into the winter. Right. So you're like, all right, we could be really good through October. But then what?

[Nick]

Did you know that at that point?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yes, I did. And I was very. That was the piece I was most worried about. We had a small amount of savings, so I was like, I think we could make it if we did zero.

[Chris Kerner]

How much savings?

[Tyler Mumford]

We had probably 20 grand in savings.

[Nick]

$20?

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh, yeah, 20. So about 20. I. That's probably not exact, but it was somewhere around there. And I knew, like, what our costs were per month. So I was like, ah, we could float till March of next year if we need to. But I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to get close. So I just worked hard and I actually found a lot of winter work. I mean, as Long as snow is not on the ground. Which Utah. It snows a lot, but the snow melts in a day or two here where we live in Utah County. So I actually found a lot of work.

[Nick]

Okay, so you were looking at that. You're like, I made 32 grand in my first two months.

[Tyler Mumford]

Profit off of that was what, probably 26, 25, 23.

[Nick]

Okay, all right, so $26,000. You got $20,000 in the bank. So you're like, okay, we're sitting on some money. We can probably make it through the winter months. What was your, like, nut every month?

[Tyler Mumford]

Fixed cost for this business at the time was probably like 2 to 3.

[Nick]

Grand because you had probably payment on the truck trailer.

[Tyler Mumford]

Stump grinder.

[Nick]

So stump grinder, you're renting. How much was that a month?

[Tyler Mumford]

I bought it at that point. I bought it right when I quit. It was. It's 900 bucks a month.

[Nick]

Okay. So you finance it. 900 bucks a month?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Truck trailer.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. Trailer is like 170, and the truck is like 490. Cold outreach and to do some marketing, but that even came later. So I think early on, you're right. It was probably more towards two.

[Nick]

So you're like, all right, overhead on the business. $2,000 a month. Yeah, we're sitting on this cash. Was your wife working?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yes, she was. And that was helpful.

[Nick]

And she was cool with. Was she like, all right, I'll give you six months.

[Chris Kerner]

Yeah, this out?

[Nick]

Or was it like, no, you better be making money in October.

[Tyler Mumford]

I asked her to give me a year. So give me a year. And I was like, I promise, like, if it doesn't work, I'll just go. I was good at my job before, so I had a really good network. I could bounce back into it.

[Chris Kerner]

So you reduce your risk by starting this before you quit.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yep.

[Chris Kerner]

You reduce your risk by leasing a truck, leasing the equipment, renting a parking lot so you don't have to buy a big lot.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

You did everything right, it seems.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, we kept it low. And the last piece of, like, de risking was. And I still feel this way a bit, is I did everything myself. I wasn't scared to go do the work if I. If this business would not have survived the winter if I was like, I need an employee right away. I can't grind stumps. I can't go to that level. I was just like, no, I'm going to do everything. So I don't have that cost yet. And in the future, I want to scale and do it right. But early on, I was like, if it's something I don't even mind doing. And it's fun, it's fun. It's a blast. And this is what I do every day. I listen to podcasts in my helmet. And, yeah, I just. I hang out.

[Nick]

It's one of the businesses I love. Businesses where there's a stark contrast between before and after. Yeah, it's like, it's so obvious, the before and after for business like this.

[Tyler Mumford]

Totally. And I still some days feel like I'm playing dress up with, like, Carhartt and stuff. It is what I do every day, but, like, this is not who I was before.

[Chris Kerner]

But there's two types of guys that were Carhartt people in Brooklyn and people that actually do work.

[Tyler Mumford]

And I was the person in the tech office wearing Carhartt. So luckily I had those shirts.

[Chris Kerner]

You were ready?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, I was ready to go ready. But now they're actually, like, dirty and, like, a little bit, you know, he.

[Chris Kerner]

Was in the office playing stump grinding video games. Carhartt.

[Tyler Mumford]

I was. I was trying to act, like, tough to, like, the guy next to me, start this business.

[Nick]

I already have the clothes.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, exactly. That's pretty much most of it.

[Chris Kerner]

You reduce your risk by buying Carhartt while you still at a tech job.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, and I got to get a truck. Talking about, actually, I didn't have a truck before. I was wearing Carhartt in, like, a Nissan Altima. Nothing against Nissan Altimus, but you can't wear Carhartt in that.

[Podcast Host]

How do you think this is going so far?

[Nick]

I mean, I think it's going well. How do you think?

[Chris Kerner]

Pretty good. I think people are loving this right.

[Nick]

Now, and I want to keep doing stuff like this. How do you keep doing stuff like this?

[Chris Kerner]

People need to subscribe. Yeah. What's your.

[Nick]

What's your podcast?

[Chris Kerner]

I'm the Kerner office. All podcast platforms and YouTube. What about you?

[Nick]

I'm Nickonomics. Same thing. All podcast platforms and YouTube.

[Chris Kerner]

All right, so what are you guys waiting for?

[Nick]

Like, and subscribe already. What can you do with these wood chips? Do you, like, resell them? Do you sell them as mulch, or is it too much dirt mixed in?

[Tyler Mumford]

There's some stuff you have to do, and I'm not a pro on this. To make it into mulch that you sell.

[Nick]

And so you just throw it away?

[Tyler Mumford]

I give it to a landscaping yard that does that for free. They turn this into mulch, and we have a great relationship that I dump for free rather than driving down to the Dump. It's right here in Provo, but I don't currently do anything with it.

[Nick]

How inception would that be? It's like start a mulching business from the stump grinding.

[Tyler Mumford]

If I had a place to just dump big piles, I would do that and have just mulch in my backyard for people to come shovel and charge them for it.

[Nick]

So Chris knows this. He's a starter, I'm a buy guy. I've only ever started or bought businesses. Chris has started businesses from scratch. But I love this business because it doesn't require all of the personal guarantees, the cash down, the risk associated with buying a business. Yeah, you tested it as a side hustle and then you went into it full time. You actually looked at buying businesses, didn't you?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, yeah I did. I've always been interested in entrepreneurship and it felt like very unattainable. I'd like the how to's felt very unattainable because I didn't have an entrepreneur in my family that I really knew of. And so I, yeah, I was, I read Buy, then build the classic buying business book Walker Dibel realized I didn't have a lot of money. I mean I'm young, I didn't have a lot of money at all to buy a business. So I'm like, why am I dreaming about this? And then I looked into franchises which felt a little bit more approachable, but that felt like a big risk signing on the dotted line of a franchise. So when I heard this, it just kind of the light bulb went off. I like to always think about worst case scenarios and worst case scenario, this business, the grinders don't really lose value. Very a ton of value. Trailers don't lose value. I would have had a truck that I would have drove to my new job. And that's, that's basically the downside.

[Nick]

If you would have bought a business that like the business that you're currently doing right now, probably worth in the mid six figures, $600,000. You would have had to put $100,000 down, get an SBA loan, you would have buy new equipment, you would have the owner train you, all that stuff. But you didn't approach. That is freaking a Chris Kerner special, which is test iterate launch.

[Tyler Mumford]

Right.

[Nick]

Like you tested the idea first. You didn't quit your job, you iterated along the way. First you were renting, then you decided to buy the stump grinder. And then you actually launched when you had enough data and information. And I mean that's one of the things I've learned from Chris is totally test, iterate, walk, ready, fire, aim.

[Tyler Mumford]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Chris Kerner]

What I love about your story is the fact that it was a perfect overlap of your interests and your skills.

[Tyler Mumford]

Right.

[Chris Kerner]

You had sales experience. So you heard the podcast and you're like, oh, okay, I like that. And then you had. Didn't you work on a tree company in high school?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, I did.

[Chris Kerner]

So you're like, oh, grinding stumps. That is a pain point.

[Tyler Mumford]

But.

[Chris Kerner]

Huh, okay, there's something to that. And then the third side of that kind of Venn diagram was the fact that you were already entrepreneurial. You wanted to start a business or buy a business, but you had no money, so everything just aligned where this became, like, the perfect business for you.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

And I think that for. For those listening or watching this, like, they need to find the thing that applies to them. Not something that looks sexy, but something they have an interest in, something they have a history in and a time in their life or a period of their life when they're ready and or willing to try or test something like this.

[Nick]

Well, and the other thing is, look at this guy. He's not afraid to get dirty. And when you get into entrepreneurship, you can't be afraid to get dirty. Lots of people are like, I want to buy a business and hire an operator. And for whatever reason, we kind of talk down to getting in the weeds. Yeah, you have to get in the weeds. You don't know what you're doing. You don't know how to manage a checkbook. You don't know how to collect. You don't know how to bill. You don't know how to take calls like you just did. You got to build the entrepreneurial muscle. You don't have the experience requisite to, like, quote, unquote, hire an operator. And if you want to be successful in entrepreneurship, you have to jump. And that's. Chris has the MIH gene, the make it happen gene. So do you. You're going to make it happen every single time. You can only look at a spreadsheet for so long.

[Tyler Mumford]

You actually acted on the make it happen gene, though. There was years, many years before I actually started this thing that I felt like I didn't have the make it happen Jean, because either I wanted to, like, buy a business, I wanted to start a franchise. All these things I got cold feet in.

[Nick]

You're 28, dude.

[Tyler Mumford]

I know, I know. I'm hard on myself, but from 25 to 28, this is what I wanted to do, and I wasn't doing it So I was like, maybe I don't have that, you know, make it happen gene. But what you were saying, there is a business model that fits everyone out there. I truly believe that. But you have to have, like, a box around it, and once you find it, you can't be afraid to actually go and pursue it. Yeah. And that was kind of my luck. Everyone thinks I'm, like, this go getter, you know, just super brave. And there was years before that that I felt like the guy that would never do anything about it.

[Nick]

That's why we love these, is because you didn't start a tech SaaS.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

This isn't, like, a sexy business that you bought. We just talk about how people can start any business. That's Chris's whole thing is, like, you can start any business. You make money off of any business.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, Chris. Yeah. And once you start making off money off one business, like, your belief in yourself to go make money off of other things that you want to do just skyrockets. And that's what it's done for me.

[Nick]

Okay, so July 11th, Chris and I have a podcast. We're brainstorming this idea of starting a stump grinder business. Right.

[Chris Kerner]

So break down the time. How long did it take you to actually execute on that?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, so I heard that episode. I'm a fan, so this is kind of weird, like, being with you guys, but, like, heard the episode July 11. By July 12, I had kind of, like, tested it in my own market.

[Chris Kerner]

Wow.

[Tyler Mumford]

And then by August 3rd, I had done everything I needed. Insurance, all the equipment, everything to do my first actual stump job on August 3rd. And then that month, it was just off and running. We had jobs every day.

[Nick]

You did 9,000 that first month. You did $23,000 that second month.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yep.

[Nick]

25,000. $26,000 in profit.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was. It was just off and running from there. I listened to your guys podcast over and over and over again because there are some things in there and how to, like, test my market.

[Chris Kerner]

Yeah.

[Tyler Mumford]

And so I just listened to that specific piece probably 10 times, got every software you guys talked about. Actually tried it. I was going to my wife, like, look, this works. I got a few texts. Yeah. I was like, holy crap, I have a business. I didn't have a business, but I was like, I feel like I have a business, and I was just fired up.

[Chris Kerner]

All right, so we don't want people to think that this is all just rainbows and butterflies.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

Tell us about some horror stories that you've had in this business.

[Tyler Mumford]

Business, yes. And I'm not saying this is passive income. I'll look into the camera. This is not passive income, but it is income, and it's. You know, you work hard to make that income. But I've had a lot of nightmare jobs. Hitting sprinkler lines, hitting electric lines. One story from each of these. I hit a sprinkler line at a townhouse, like a HOA Townhouse type thing. And it was really close to the window, and the sprinkler line was pressurized. Water just started spraying through their window. It was open inside the town. Open window.

[Chris Kerner]

Oh, man.

[Tyler Mumford]

I had to. I started banging on the door, and no one was answering. And so I opened their door. It was open. I opened their door, and I was like, hey, anyone home? Like, there's water coming into your house.

[Nick]

Yeah. If the door is unlocked, it's not breaking and entering. That's kind of what I. Yeah.

[Tyler Mumford]

And they ended up shutting the window, and. And it was okay. I felt lucky that I had insurance, just in case, but we never even had to use it.

[Chris Kerner]

How much is your insurance?

[Tyler Mumford]

It's like 400 bucks a month or something.

[Chris Kerner]

Hard to find.

[Tyler Mumford]

No, not really.

[Chris Kerner]

Okay, so if you're watching this, you're like, what about insurance? You buy insurance? Yeah, you just buy insurance.

[Tyler Mumford]

It's a cost that you have.

[Chris Kerner]

There you go.

[Tyler Mumford]

And you pay it with a few jobs just like the one we showed today. And. Okay, keep moving.

[Nick]

You never had any claims?

[Chris Kerner]

No.

[Tyler Mumford]

Never knock on. The only other time I was close was there was a private electric line going to someone's back shed. I call the city, and they'll come out and mark electric and water and all these different lines, but they don't mark private ones. So they put this line in themselves. They told me about it. So this is completely my bad. And I was like, oh, I probably won't hit it. Sure enough, going. Hit it. Sparks flew everywhere. It was the scariest thing. I thought I got electrocuted.

[Nick]

I didn't.

[Tyler Mumford]

I was like, am I dead? I didn't know. And then, you know, sure enough, I blew through their line. I paid for the fix. It wasn't that big.

[Chris Kerner]

Like, I thought sparks flying is just an expression.

[Tyler Mumford]

No. Yeah. It was horrifying. It was actually so scary.

[Nick]

It was electric. So the reason we brought that idea up was because we have a tree trimming business that Chris was passionate about. We launched that business. We had a whole, like, framework of tools and things that we use. But we had one pain point.

[Chris Kerner]

Yeah. We like, we didn't want to grind the stumps.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

So we'd have to go to United Rentals or we'd have to go find a stump grinder. And it was just a pain. It didn't fit into our workflow. So we started talking on this podcast of someone needs to start a business to business. Stump grinding business.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

Right. Not business to consumer. Which wasn't really a thing. And it was just kind of a theory. And then you heard that, took it and ran with it. And from what I understand, your first customers came from B2B. Didn't you, like, scrape a bunch of tree trimming businesses?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, I did kind of exactly what you guys outlined in the podcast. I scraped a whole list of tree trimming businesses from all the surrounding areas from where we are here. And then I started reaching out to them. I didn't want to burn all the leads, so I didn't reach out to everyone at one time, but I reached out to 20 or 30 people, started getting hits back, and I was like, oh, there's something here. And it aligned really well with my skill set of I knew how to sell, I knew how to go B2B. So I knew how to get in front of these guys and paint their problem as something I could solve. And we started doing it, and sure enough, there's a market for it.

[Chris Kerner]

What is like your framework for finding customers?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, I call it a PRA framework. It's a little bit complicated.

[Chris Kerner]

Basically, we're going to dive into that. Yeah, I want to hear that. What I love about this home service business in particular is how visual it is. You've got a clear before and after. You've got a clear time lapse. And you've been taking advantage of that. You've been posting that stuff.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

What has come from that?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, my small Twitter following. I was getting tons of DMs, like, how do you do this? How do you do this? Really basic questions. And I got really sick of hopping on every call, so I just typed it all up into a playbook and I sell it for a small amount. And it's. It's changed other people's lives. Like, it's crazy. 10 to 12 guys are full stump grinders across the country from a little thing I typed up out of my brain. Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

I mean, there's so many people out there starting businesses that are the same. And we started TK owners so we could just have them put their heads together and not, you know, go through all these. Sprinkle are inside the townhouse. Moments that, that you've had to go through.

[Tyler Mumford]

100.

[Nick]

That's. That is freaking too funny, man. Where are they? Are they all over the place?

[Tyler Mumford]

All over? Yeah. Virginia, Minnesota, South Carolina.

[Nick]

I saw one guy post, he's like, oh, I just quoted a 200 stump job.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, that guy.

[Chris Kerner]

What the.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, that guy's the man. He's an old guy. That guy's like 65.

[Nick]

Really?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

All right, so what is your monthly overhead on this business?

[Tyler Mumford]

Do you want line item by line item or do you want like a big.

[Chris Kerner]

Just the big things.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. Big costs probably all add to depending on the month, like 4 to 5k currently where we're at now.

[Chris Kerner]

So this storage lot's 100 bucks a month?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

Your truck lease, trailer lease?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yep.

[Chris Kerner]

Machine lease?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yep. Or insurance?

[Nick]

Insurance.

[Tyler Mumford]

Gas is probably my leading cost. Outside of all of that, just hauling it around and gas for the machine and then small things like teeth. I mean they've got to get the oil changed on the machine. You know, just all the classic business stuff.

[Nick]

What about things like marketing? What are you spending on Google, what are you spending on?

[Tyler Mumford]

Marketing's pretty low. I probably spend five to six hundred bucks total a month on Google, like LSA stuff.

[Chris Kerner]

Your reviews are your marketing in a sense?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. My reviews and then contractors give me work. Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

So if someone's watching this and they're like, I'm broke, but I love this business. What is the most cost efficient way to start it?

[Tyler Mumford]

Most cost efficient? You probably do need some access to a truck is the only thing that you need access to.

[Chris Kerner]

You can rent a truck from Home Depot if you need.

[Tyler Mumford]

If you have really scrappy, you could rent the truck, you could rent a trailer and you can rent a stump grinder by the day.

[Chris Kerner]

Yeah.

[Tyler Mumford]

If you want to rent a small stump grinder, most of like the rental places, there's one called Sunbelt here, they rent stump grinders. They're small, but they'll get the job done.

[Chris Kerner]

And I think it's important that people don't try to focus on making a ton of profit that first day, week or month.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

They need to lessen their risk by renting this stuff because the unit economics honestly aren't great if you're renting. Right. But that gets you learning, it gets you traction, it gets you some good reviews before and after.

[Nick]

It's exactly what he did.

[Chris Kerner]

Right.

[Nick]

You had your full time job and you decided, I'm going to do this on the side. You didn't buy the machine right away, you didn't Hop into, you know, large expenses. You tested it on the side.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

You figured out what you're doing. You actually learned how to grind stumps.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yep.

[Nick]

And then when September came and you realize you were booked out, you're like, all right, I should probably jump into this a little more. Something a little harder. What were you making in your B2B job?

[Tyler Mumford]

I made about. It just depends. There's a lot of commission, but about 175k.

[Nick]

Okay, so about 15 grand a month.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

All right. What are you making currently in your stump grinding business?

[Tyler Mumford]

Probably higher than that. Probably like 15 to 20. Maybe 25, depending on the month, is probably what we're walking away with.

[Nick]

And how long did it take for you to get to that spot?

[Tyler Mumford]

Second month.

[Nick]

Second month, yeah.

[Tyler Mumford]

Now, there is a seasonal part to this business. It's not like I make that every month of every year, but I have a lot more freedom to do what I want and achieve those. Those things from. From doing this.

[Nick]

Okay, so unit economics, average revenue per.

[Tyler Mumford]

Job, it's probably around, I would say, 300 bucks.

[Nick]

300 bucks?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. Okay.

[Nick]

And then your average fixed costs per month that you gave us was about $5,000.

[Tyler Mumford]

Roughly four to five. I would say it's four most months, unless there's outsized.

[Nick]

Okay. So let's say it's $5,000. $800 on average. So you need about 15 jobs.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Just to get to break even.

[Tyler Mumford]

Usually in week one of the month is how I think about it. I pay off my monthly expenses.

[Nick]

How many jobs are you doing a day, able to do a day?

[Tyler Mumford]

Depends. A $300 job, you could do five to six of those in a day.

[Nick]

Dang. Okay.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

So you could stack it pretty quick.

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You got to be smart with your routes and stuff, but, yeah, you can stack it up.

[Nick]

So week two, you're in a profit.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[Chris Kerner]

Would you say this is a competitive market?

[Tyler Mumford]

Do you mean Utah itself, or do you mean the stump grinding market Utah? Oh, Utah is a highly competitive market.

[Chris Kerner]

Yeah.

[Tyler Mumford]

Very, very competitive. I've already had multiple people try to copy me with the same idea because I post on Twitter about it. It doesn't really bother me because I'm better than them. But, like, I feel like if this.

[Chris Kerner]

Could be so successful here, it could be even more successful elsewhere.

[Tyler Mumford]

Absolutely.

[Nick]

What do you feel like, though, is the differentiator? Like you said, you were better than them. In my mind, it's like a stump is either ground or it's not ground.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What do you think? You do better. What, like what's, if somebody's getting into this, what do they need to execute really, really well on in order to be successful?

[Tyler Mumford]

For me personally, I could give you, I could give you tons of examples, but I'll give you an example. You're. You're a tree guy. You're a tree guy and you only get paid for the job once the stump is ground. That means the job's done and you get to, you get the tree down morning. If you're a part time guy and I say, hey, I need this stump ground now so I can get paid. And he's like, oh, I could be there Thursday afternoon because he's busy till then and he works a full time job, but I could be there Tuesday morning so you can get paid that day. Huge advantage right there. For a tree guy that needs money, responsiveness is a huge one. Second one is having the equipment that isn't the rental equipment. Once you get to that point, and I mean, there's quite a few other things that differentiate, but responsiveness is number one with contractors because they're just like me, they want to get paid.

[Chris Kerner]

The big reason a lot of people are watching this is, okay, where's my first customer? Where's my 100th customer? Do I go through the tree trimming businesses? Do I go through marry homeowner? Yeah, you talked about this PRA method. We got to dive into that.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, absolutely. So the P stands for piggyback. So we want to piggyback off of existing businesses that have a pain point, which are tree companies that don't want to do stuff.

[Chris Kerner]

Are there other businesses other than tree trimming that dub out their work to you?

[Tyler Mumford]

Absolutely. Landscapers, landscape install. You don't want the lawn guys. The lawn guys don't give you anything. Landscape installers do. And then fence installers. If there's a stump in the fence line and then the last one is concrete guys, the last three are like more few and far between. But they still need a guy sometimes.

[Chris Kerner]

Yeah. How do you find all these guys?

[Tyler Mumford]

You scrape big lists through outscraper. Great website. You're very familiar with outscraper scrape. Big, big lists of these in certain.

[Chris Kerner]

Geographies and you just call them, email them, text them.

[Tyler Mumford]

I usually cold text in bunches, so 20 to 30. I haven't gotten a hold of every single ones on my list because some numbers they have aren't great for them. But that's the best way to get in the door if they respond to me in any Way, shape or form, I'll call them. Even if it's a no. Be like, hey, cool, I know you're not interested, but this is what I'm doing.

[Chris Kerner]

So you're just copy pasting the same text 20, 30 times. What is in that text?

[Tyler Mumford]

It's really simple. One, it's a picture of my business card, usually right in front of my Ford.

[Chris Kerner]

Shows authority.

[Tyler Mumford]

Exactly. Ford logo on the truck. It looks like I'm out working. And then it's, hey, my name is Tyler. Run a company called Grind Time. Stump grinding. This is rough. But I was wondering what you do with your stumps. Do you do them yourself? Do you sub it out, or do you own a machine? And they'll give me one of those three answers and then I can go.

[Nick]

What percentage of the time do they respond?

[Tyler Mumford]

30, 40%, which is pretty good. I don't do as much of that cold outreach as too busy. I do. I'm busy and I get referrals. And I still do that sometimes, but it's just not as common.

[Nick]

Okay, so you launch with piggybacking, which finding someone who already has the distribution to your ideal customer.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But you don't do that anymore. So how are you getting business now?

[Tyler Mumford]

All of those guys that were giving me jobs are still giving me jobs.

[Nick]

They're still giving you jobs.

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh, yeah. So that's the start, right? You get your. I'm like, okay, I'm starting to get to like, like 15 grand months just from contractors. And then you start taking. This is where the R comes in. You start backdooring reviews from these same customers. So I'm the last one there. From what I know, all the tree guys I work for are totally fine with this because they love that the customer loves me. And so I introduced myself to the customer because it's after the tree got removed. I then do the stump job. And then after I walk to their front door and say, hey, I run a different company. I just started and I'm. I'm working really hard to grow my company here in Utah County. Would you please give me a review?

[Chris Kerner]

Sell your story. That's what you're doing.

[Tyler Mumford]

Absolutely. If you do that every single time to a mom, dad, doesn't not matter. They will pull out their phone. It's a little uncomfortable. I wait for them to pull out their phone. So, yeah, I. I would really like. It helps me grow the business.

[Chris Kerner]

If you leave. They're not going to do it.

[Tyler Mumford]

They're just not. Would you please? It would help me so much if you give me a review and then you just stop. And they go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I just wait. And then they go, oh, wait, like now. And they start pulling out their phone. And I'm like, yeah, I got the link right here.

[Chris Kerner]

It's tactics like that that really just make this, like this video just makes it better. Because that matters. That matters so much. And what you said about the business card, like your, your shoes, your Timberlands in the background and the grass or the shavings in the background of the picture of you holding the business card, it's not AI generated, it's real. You can go to Vistaprint and get those for free, mailed to you. Like, those little touches make all the difference 100%.

[Tyler Mumford]

Contractors want to know that you're out working and sweating with them, and so they don't want to think that you're some guy behind a computer. Yeah. Like, dude, that guy's in a backyard asking me if I want to do stuff. So I'm not actually in a backyard there, but I was in a backyard. And take the picture. Right. You know, so that's. That helps.

[Nick]

Well, I just think it's crazy to think about. You could have had two guys who did the same thing.

[Tyler Mumford]

Right.

[Nick]

They got business, they went out, they fulfilled the job. They did just as good of a job, the customer was just as happy. But because you decided to be awkward for five seconds, you got a review and somebody else didn't. It's like you're. You're uncomfortable for five seconds. You just got to sit in that discomfort for five seconds and all of a sudden. Yeah, that's a differentiator.

[Chris Kerner]

Piggyback P reviews are those drive all of your ongoing business. And before I even get to a. This is my ADHD talking.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

I just find it incredible that you spent $0 to send a text. They respond, they show interest, you spend $0 to call them.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

And that five minute investment pays you hundreds to thousands of dollars per month.

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

As long as you don't screw it up per month. Forever.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. I mean, can I tell you my number one contractor, how much he gave me this summer? Yeah, I think he gave me 25 grand in four or five months from one tax. From a text.

[Nick]

It's ridiculous.

[Tyler Mumford]

And he was like, yeah, I actually don't like my contractor at all, but I've never tried looking for anyone else, so I'll try you out. Yeah, well, that's how the relationship started.

[Chris Kerner]

Even if you're nine jobs then and you really screw it up, they're going to stick with you, okay? They're used to the other guy screwing it up. Every other job.

[Tyler Mumford]

Well, and right when I screw it up, I send a picture, say, hey, I just hit a sprinkler line here. I'm getting it fixed, don't worry about it. But this is what is happening.

[Chris Kerner]

I got the. This.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. And they're like, yeah, dude, things happen all the time. They're tree guys.

[Chris Kerner]

They're contractors too.

[Tyler Mumford]

They take out fences half the time with trees. You know what I mean? They have big things that happen to them.

[Nick]

So anyways, before you get to the A, I want to hit one more thing on the review side. So my background's healthcare. And we have a saying with our clinicians. If you didn't document it, it didn't happen because we get audited all the time. And if the auditor comes in and looks and they don't see it in the notes, it doesn't matter how much good you did, you're going to get tagged for that.

[Chris Kerner]

Right.

[Nick]

I think that translates to every business owner. If you didn't document, if you didn't get the review, like, it didn't happen. So like, yes, you got paid that one time for service, but it doesn't actually translate to broader brand building. So I just, I love this. Like I'm going to get reviews every single time so that people can see I can build credibility, I can establish trust. And anyways, I can't, I can't emphasize it enough.

[Tyler Mumford]

I, I will give you one more piece of sauce here. The, the reviews. I actually didn't start trying to get reviews. I didn't even have a Google my business till like month four or five.

[Chris Kerner]

Holy cow.

[Tyler Mumford]

But I did have a big spreadsheet of every job I've done and if they gave me the customer's number, it was in the spreadsheet. So I just ran a, a full blown, like text blast with, you know, text of, of my company, of selfie, of me, whatever it was, and just be like, hey, I did your stump job a few months back. You don't remember who I am. Totally fine. But we're getting started. And the day that I started my GMB, I think I got like 15 reviews that day.

[Chris Kerner]

And those 15 reviews on day one sends a signal to Google that, yeah, this guy's for real.

[Tyler Mumford]

Oh yeah.

[Chris Kerner]

He's probably been in business before he ever created a Google business profile, which they're not used to, Right?

[Tyler Mumford]

Totally.

[Chris Kerner]

So then they prioritize you in the algorithm.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, My SEO guy, he's a friend, so this is why he did it. But he kind of fired me. He was like, dude, you're at the top. Like, you're getting reviews. Like, we don't really need to keep paying me for SEO if you want me to do other stuff. Like, happy to do that. But that was pretty fast.

[Nick]

All right, what's the a?

[Tyler Mumford]

The A? So piggyback. You get reviews and then you answer the phone. You guys saw me do it on that job. I answer every phone call. My wife gets annoyed. I walked out of a movie last night because I answered the phone during the movie.

[Nick]

Really?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. I answer the phone without fail. Contractor Google, you. You will not call my phone if it's my business line and get a missed call.

[Chris Kerner]

In your first month, what? Or first few months, what percentage of your revenue came from other businesses versus today? What percentage of your revenue is coming from other businesses?

[Tyler Mumford]

When I started, it was 100%. And it was 100% for about six months. Like literally 100%, unless maybe a neighbor saw me or something. But it was 100% contractors that gave me the business. Now it's probably 70, 30, maybe 60, 40 of my own customers and contractors. Okay, so we're growing that side pretty steadily. And I think this is a pretty healthy spot to sit where I get my own jobs, but contractors fill most of my week. And then I put the small jobs that I get elsewhere.

[Chris Kerner]

Well, it's a trade off because they're not recurring jobs, but they're more profitable.

[Tyler Mumford]

Exactly.

[Chris Kerner]

And you get two reviews for the price of one. You get the homeowner's review and the business owner's review.

[Tyler Mumford]

Totally. Yeah. So it's kind of mixing the revenue. Right. You got your one offs. That is just the Google calls. And these are great and they help you pump revenue. But if you don't have good contractor relationships, those days that you get zero calls from Google, you're going to want the guy texting you that they have a job for you next week. So you want both.

[Nick]

I want you to be honest with me. What's the plan? Hire more employees, expand to new markets. What are you doing next with this business?

[Tyler Mumford]

My honest answer to that is, I think I'm going to move into a bigger service and never leave this behind. I don't want to say it's on autopilot because I do work hard every day, but it is not. It doesn't take a ton of brain work to get the revenue getting.

[Nick]

The business is kind of on autopilot.

[Tyler Mumford]

It kind of is. And so I could put a guy in my seat to do the grinding every single day and still make enough money to pay our bills and save some extra.

[Chris Kerner]

How much money. How much profit would you make per year today if you didn't grow it and you outsourced your operations?

[Tyler Mumford]

North of 115, probably 120.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Chris Kerner]

To sit at home, probably.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. Yeah, probably Maybe a bit more, depending on where this is growing to. But currently, right now, if it just stayed where it is right now, probably about there.

[Nick]

The point I wanted to highlight is, is a lot of people think, oh.

[Tyler Mumford]

I started a business.

[Nick]

Now it's got to grow. Now I got to double it. Now I got to triple it. Like, you've gotten to the place where your business is kicking off good cash. You've managed it. You don't need to grow, but you've. You've grown to the point now where your life is kind of where you want it to be, but you've gained experience as an entrepreneur.

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And so now you can move into something else. And you understand, okay, how do I market? How do I price things? How do I manage people? What do logistics look like? Right. But you got that experience with a great business. You got your feet wet with it. You kind of know what you do and don't like, and you can move on with very low risk. Like, to me, that's the best example for someone who's getting into entrepreneurship.

[Tyler Mumford]

And the freedom that I have now is, like, unmatched compared to when I was in a W2 job. I can go explore those other ideas that I have or businesses that my wife wants to start or is starting and say, oh, you need me for a half day to help you with this thing? Easy. Like, I'll just not schedule jobs for Wednesday afternoon and go do them. Or I'll take a full day off or I'll do this xyz. Once you get into the game, it's so much easier to, like, keep playing other games. That's what this is to me is I got into the game. I'm going to keep it as part of my game for probably a very long time. But I don't think this will be my only game.

[Nick]

I freaking. I love that.

[Chris Kerner]

I mean, that's the key word. Freedom. That's like, that's why we're all doing this. Right? It's not even necessarily financial freedom. It's just freedom.

[Nick]

Chris has been a hustler his whole life. He's never worked for anybody after college. Like, he's he's just always done his own thing. I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I wanted to, like, have everything lined up. And what I've learned now is you learn by doing.

[Tyler Mumford]

Totally.

[Nick]

And as you learn by doing, you can get into other things, but then you have freedom, Then you have control of your time, of your schedule. Anyways, your story is really inspiring, man.

[Tyler Mumford]

Thank you.

[Nick]

Appreciate you.

[Chris Kerner]

All right, so someone's watching this and they're like, I love this business. I want to do this business. What would you tell them to do?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah, yeah. First off, I'd tell them to go do something about it and actually just start it. The second thing I tell them to do if they want a little bit more handholding, is I've put together, like, a small community playbook course kind of on. On how to get this done and to avoid some of the pitfalls that I fell into, I. I really wish I had someone to hold my hand and answer some of these questions early on so that to save my time, because I'm out grinding stumps, I put this together for people to come together and learn how to do it, to do this in their market.

[Nick]

You've already had a hundred people who've bought your playbook and more than a dozen who've actually. Actually launch businesses in other markets, right?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. So we already know it works. We know it works in pretty much any market that people try it in. No matter what the Twitter haters say. It does work in California, it does work in the Northeast, it does work everywhere. And yeah, it's amazing to see. There's been eight to 12 guys that I know of. There's probably more but that are grinding stumps and make an extra income with it.

[Chris Kerner]

Well, I mean, I filmed this video right here about appliance rental and hundreds of people started them and some of them are like, on top of each other in the same market. Do you offer any sort of, like, loose protections on people like you won't sell to the same people that are in the same town?

[Tyler Mumford]

Yeah. That's actually the only thing that really I feel like differentiates us outside of having a school with some really good information, is that I actually care about people. And if they're putting their hard earned money towards something like this, I don't want them to just have something that's already been done in their market. Yeah. So if someone's in Tampa Bay or if someone's in Cincinnati and they are part of our course or our school, we don't sell to another person. In Tampa Bay or Cincinnati to allow the guys in our group to thrive because we want them to thrive, and that's. That's our whole goal.