Ali Velshi: Trump's economy is so bad he's trying to distract from it by talking about Epstein

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Ali Velshi: Trump's economy is so bad he's trying to distract from it by talking about Epstein"

Podcast: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell (guest host: Ali Velshi)
Date: September 6, 2025
Host: Ali Velshi, MSNBC

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Overview

This episode, with Ali Velshi sitting in for Lawrence O’Donnell, focuses on the deteriorating US economy under Donald Trump’s administration. Velshi and his guests analyze the alarming jobs report, Trump’s attempts to distract attention (notably by referencing Jeffrey Epstein), and the dangerous politicization of economic and foreign policy. The conversation also covers the administration's increasingly authoritarian tactics, US retreat on the world stage, and new consumer rights rollbacks, all set against a backdrop of global instability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Distraction from Economic Woes

[02:00–02:45]

• Trump tries to shift public attention from the unemployment report by claiming the Epstein investigation is a “Democrat hoax.”

• Velshi highlights the historically poor jobs numbers: August saw only 22,000 new jobs, a significant decrease from expectations, with a net job loss in June.

  "How bad is the economy? So bad that Donald Trump is now trying to distract from the economy and the jobs numbers... by talking about Jeffrey Epstein."
  — Ali Velshi [02:07]

2. Devastating Jobs Report and Economic Outlook

[02:45–07:44]

• The jobs report shows a stagnant market, with increased unemployment for Black workers and job losses across key sectors.

• Velshi marks these signs as “emergency territory,” anticipating Federal Reserve rate cuts even as inflation remains high.

  "This is kind of the worst position that an economy can be in... There's nothing in this jobs report that was good. There were no silver linings."
  — Ali Velshi [03:40]

• Trump blames others but continues policies, like aggressive deportations and tariffs, that have worsened the situation.

3. Politicization of the Federal Reserve

[07:44–13:51]

• Trump attacks Fed chair Powell, nominates loyalists to key economic roles, and attempts to politicize central banking (potentially undermining global trust in the dollar).

• Former Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warns of the inflation risk if the Fed's independence is lost.

  "This is the basic recipe for high inflation or hyperinflation... And that is what President Trump is putting at risk."
  — Janet Yellen [07:44]

Guest: Kenneth Rogoff (Harvard economist, former IMF Chief Economist)

• Explains how independent central banks control inflation and why politicization, as seen in Turkey, leads to disaster.

• Points out that current problems need “tough work,” not just monetary fixes.

  "If the economy's weak and inflation's high, there's no simple demand management kind of thing. You have to do the tough work of making the economy work better."
  — Kenneth Rogoff [11:48]

4. Economic Effects of Deportations & Authoritarian Tactics

[13:51–18:32]

• Velshi details how aggressive deportations are having ripple effects in labor and produce prices, referencing raids (e.g., Hyundai plant in Georgia).

• Congresswoman Lauren Underwood (IL) discusses lack of federal-local communication on ICE raids and the un-American nature of militarizing domestic law enforcement.

• The show underscores how Trump's use of National Guard/federal agents in Democratic cities is about power, not crime reduction.

  "This is unlawful, it's un-American, and they are not invited into the city of Chicago or state of Illinois."
  — Rep. Lauren Underwood [15:35]

5. America’s Waning Global Role & Strongmen Alliances

[20:32–32:06]

• Velshi describes Trump’s isolationism and withdrawal from international leadership as enabling a surge in global authoritarianism (China, Russia).
• Trump’s claim to have “ended wars” is debunked, and his confusion and lack of understanding are pilloried.

Guests:

• Tom Nichols (Naval War College, The Atlantic):

  "Somehow Trump thinks... just by meeting with them he can talk these guys into being his friends... It's childlike, but dangerous."
  — Tom Nichols [24:08]

• Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman:

  "Trump is creating an enormous amount of opportunity for authoritarian regimes to fill the vacuum of our absence."
  — Alexander Vindman [25:46]

• Both discuss the symbolic harm in halting aid to the Baltic states and the dangers of renaming the Department of Defense to the Department of War.

6. Militarism, Lies, and Policy Rollback

[34:07–39:46]

• Trump’s new Defense Secretary (former Fox host Pete Hegseth) promotes “maximum lethality, not tepid legality,” signaling dangerous militarism.

• Velshi and Rep. Adam Smith (WA) debunk Trump’s claims of ending foreign conflicts through tariffs, pointing out these are outright lies and that US security is being compromised.

  "He is weakening the United States and placing us in greater danger in a thousand different ways. And then he really thinks he can just lie his way out of it."
  — Rep. Adam Smith [36:42]

• The US is pushing away allies (like India), losing trade partners because of personal vendettas.

  "He blew off an ally because the ally refused to lie for him personally."
  — Rep. Adam Smith [38:58]

7. Rollback of Consumer Protections and Airline Refunds

[40:50–45:37]

• Trump administration is removing rules requiring airlines to compensate stranded passengers. While Trump accepts a multimillion-dollar Qatari jet, ordinary travelers lose protections.

• Rep. Steve Cohen (TN) underscores that only legislative rules protecting consumers now remain, and that every Trump move favors corporations over people.

  "So don't ever think as an individual you're going to get anything out of this administration that benefits you as a consumer."
  — Rep. Steve Cohen [43:08]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "This is emergency territory. The Federal Reserve now probably has to cut rates... while it’s still struggling to keep inflation under control."
  — Ali Velshi [04:17]
• "Trump got the results he asked for with his doge cuts and his tariffs. There’s no part of this that Donald Trump can spin." [05:50]
• "Maximum lethality, not tepid legality... Is that just a cosplay expression from a clownish defense secretary or... an actual statement of policy?"
  — Ali Velshi [35:02]
• "He doesn't understand the international system. He still doesn't understand tariffs... If Joe Biden had sounded like Trump, there would have been hearings, there would have been impeachment, there would have been demands for the 25th Amendment."
  — Tom Nichols [28:57]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Trump’s Distraction Tactics: 02:00–02:45
• Jobs Report & Economic Analysis: 02:45–07:44
• Federal Reserve Independence: 07:44–13:51
• Deportations & Authoritarian Tactics: 13:51–18:32
• US on World Stage and Authoritarians: 20:32–32:06
• Militarization, Lies, and War Posturing: 34:07–39:46
• Airline Consumer Protections Rollback: 40:50–45:37

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Tone and Style

The conversation maintained a critical and urgent tone, punctuated by sharp wit and candid assessments of Trump’s actions. The language was direct, often laced with incredulity at policy decisions, and frequently referenced the real-world implications for American workers, consumers, and global standing.

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Takeaway

Ali Velshi and his expert guests present a damning account of the Trump administration's economic failures, authoritarian leanings, dangerous foreign policy blunders, and consumer rights rollbacks. The episode offers insight into the interconnected crises facing the United States—economic, institutional, and international—all under the shadow of a president accused of being more concerned with optics and personal vendettas than governance.

Transcript

[Ali Velshi]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Ali Velshi]

The Last Word is next with Ali.

[Commercial Announcer]

Velshi in for Lawrence.

[Ali Velshi]

Hey Ali, What a great show you had. I thought the conversation with Governor Pritzker was great. You know, I didn't want to really dignify this topic, but earlier this week Ted Cruz took a swipe at JB Pritzker on social media. I don't know if you saw this. It was beneath the dignity of a U.S. senator. He said, I wouldn't want to get between J.B. pritzker and a Domino's Pizza line, which is a weight joke. And then Pritzker came back at him and said, I wouldn't want to get between Ted Cruz and a trip to Cancun when Texas is in an emergency, which I thought was two Shades Head cruise. That was a clapback if I had ever seen one. But that was a really important interview and I'm looking forward this October 11th to being with a lot of our viewers and hearing directly from them. So I look forward to being with you there as well.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

It's the best part.

[Ali Velshi]

And since Lawrence is going to dance, I think because you also do the.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

10Pm Maybe that means you're dancing too.

[Ali Velshi]

But we'll I'm going to do something. I'm going to be with Stephanie. Stephanie and I are going to do a Belsheen rule thing which will be perfect. We love it, which will be fun. I'm looking forward to that. Have yourself a great weekend. See you next week. Thank you, Ali. All right. I want to talk about the economy. How bad is the economy? So bad that Donald Trump is now trying to distract from the economy and the jobs numbers that he got this morning by talking about Jeffrey Epstein. Donald Trump Posted at 9:56am after no doubt watching 90 minutes of coverage of the abysmal jobs report that the Epstein investigation, quote, is merely another Democrat hoax. Just like Russia, Russia, Russia, the Department of justice has done its job. They've given everything requested of them. It's time to end the Democrat Epstein hoax and give the Republicans credit for the great, even legendary, job that they are doing. End quote.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wow.

[Ali Velshi]

Donald Trump does everything possible not to talk about Epstein, but he needed you not to talk about the jobs numbers this morning. Here's the result of the great, even legendary job that Trump and his rubber stamp Republicans are doing with the American economy. It created negative jobs. Now, this almost never happens without a recession. The last time it happened was under Trump during the height of the pandemic in December of 2020. The jobs report today revised the June jobs number. Normally it's September, so we get the August numbers, but it revised some prior numbers. They revised the June jobs number to negative. Last month, the economy created an anemic 22,000 jobs. That's about a third of what economists had expected. The Wall Street Journal put it US Job growth continued to slow down in August with just 22,000 new jobs, a sign that the labor market is deteriorating markedly. Friday's job report adds to a summer of slow hiring and points to a stagnant job market that has lengthened job searches, shut young people out of employment, and increased unemployment for black workers. The Labor Department's report also highlighted weaknesses from earlier in the year. The government revised its numbers from previous months and said that the economy lost a net 13,000 jobs in June. That was the first such decline since December of 2020. The losses in August were widespread, with the reports showing drops in employment across sectors including manufacturing, finance, unemployment and finance unemployment rose from 4.2% to 4.3%. Now, I just want to be clear. This is kind of the worst position that an economy can be in. Sometimes there's things you can pull out of a jobs report that are good. There's nothing in this jobs report that was good. There were no silver linings. There were health care jobs created, but there have been health care jobs created in every single month for the last many, many, many, many years. So we always create healthcare jobs. This is emergency territory. The Federal Reserve now probably has to cut rates in September, which will goose spending, and it has to do that while it's still struggling to keep inflation under control. In sum, the near future looks to hold fewer jobs and lower income because fewer jobs means workers will get fewer raises, fewer opportunities for promotion or moving to a new job for better pay, all while we still have higher prices. Inflation and slow job growth is a terrible, terrible combination. It is an almost economically unsolvable problem, and this one is Donald Trump's fault. Trump got the results he asked for with his doge cuts and his tariffs. There's no part of this that Donald Trump can spin. He did say, by the way, that this will all improve in a year or two. That's what he said today. And he tried to remember he fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics after last month's terrible jobs report. The Bureau of Labor Statistics. That's the job counter. That's the ref. Trump's new nominee isn't on the job yet. In fact, Trump only got around to officially nominating his nominee for the head of the BLS on Wednesday, so his Senate confirmation process hasn't started. The New York Times notes how the Trump deportations are keeping the unemployment rate down even as job creation stalls. Quote, very slow job growth has been offset for now by Mr. Trump's aggressive campaign to expel immigrants from the country. With fewer people available to work, the unemployment rate has remained stable in what Jerome H. Powell, the Federal Reserve chair, recently called a curious kind of balance. And to no one's surprise, Trump attacked Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell again today with one of his weird social media posts. It's not Jerome Powell's fault that Donald Trump is wrecking the economy. Even less surprising, members of Trump's sycophantic Cabinet who deal with economic policy parroted Trump's attacks on the Fed chair because their biggest job right now seems to be appeasing the Dear Leader rather than advising him on how to fix the economy that he's breaking. Trump could actually improve this situation immediately if he dropped his appeal to the Supreme Court and ended his illegal tariff nonsense. But no, instead he's escalating his attacks on the Federal Reserve chair and against the Federal Reserve Board member Lisa Cook, who he has no power to fire and who's suing him to keep her seat. Unrelated to Lisa Cook, there is an other open seat on the Federal Reserve Board and Trump's nominee for that open seat, Stephen Marin, who chairs the Trump's Council of Economic Advisers, wants to keep his White House job while serving on the independent Federal Reserve. That, of course, has never happened before due to the obvious conflict of interest that it would create. Here's what the former Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen told me on Sunday about how Trump's attempts to control the Federal Reserve could end up hurting Americans.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

This is a thought that many heads of state have had and thought let's pressure our central bank to do exactly that. Lower interest rates, it's juices the economy, gets down interest expense. And this is the basic recipe for high inflation or hyperinflation. What independence means is that the technocrats at the central bank use economic reasoning data to try to figure out what are the best settings of monetary policy to achieve these goals free of political interference. And that is what President Trump is putting at risk. And there will be a cost to every American that could be profound if this is allowed to happen.

[Ali Velshi]

All right. Joining me now is Kenneth Rogoff. He's a professor of economics at Harvard University. He's the former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund. He's the author of Our Dollar, your Problem, An Insider's View of Seven, Seven Turbulent Decades of Global Finance and the Road Ahead. He's also an expert on recessions, which I hope we don't have to call on him for. Ken, great to see you.

[Kenneth Rogoff]

Great to see you. Pleasure.

[Ali Velshi]

A couple things going on. One is let's just talk about the Fed and the politicization of the Fed. There's a million examples of this. Some of them are historic. Some of them happened in America. One of them happened very recently in Turkey. Janet Yellen makes the point that being a Fed official or a Fed employee is some wonky work. It's charts and projections and things like that. It is best that this is left to people who do the wonky work and who like it, as opposed to politicians who would like low interest and high growth all the time.

[Kenneth Rogoff]

No, exactly. I mean the Fed, by resisting always pulling down the short term interest rate, that's the one they control, prevents the long term interest rates which affect most of us mortgages, car loans, student loans from going up. Because if you push short rates down too much, you goose inflation and lenders are going to want to get compensated for that. So it has worked to have the Fed be independent. We didn't always have that. In the 1970s, we had sky high inflation all over the world. And having an independent central bank, there are things to complain about. They're not perfect, they got some things wrong. But overall it's worked great.

[Ali Velshi]

Right? Independent doesn't mean perfect. It Just means independent of political interference. We've watched in Turkey, where Erdogan decided.

[Kenneth Rogoff]

He wanted firing them one after another.

[Ali Velshi]

And they had inflation in very high double digits. It was very dangerous. Inflation's harder to catch than a recession. Recessions we have some experience with. You can flood the zone with money, you can bring interest rates down, you can goose the economy. You end up with what's called creative destruction. Some jobs go away, but new ones get created, new industries get created. Getting hold of inflation can be much harder and can take much longer.

[Kenneth Rogoff]

Yeah, because people lose faith. They were saving their money. And we just experienced it in the pandemic, and suddenly it's worth 10% less. I think in the pandemic, they looked at the independent Fed and so far it stood up. But if we do that again anytime soon, they're going to lose fai. The low inflation is part of our trust in the dollar and the government.

[Ali Velshi]

Explain to me why this combination is uniquely bad. Lower job growth, which. Which may or may not. We'll have to see what the GDP numbers are, which may be correlating to lower economic growth and inflation. It's not terribly high. But inflation, that's not exactly yet where the Fed wants it to be. The things you have to do to fix inflation and the things you have to do to fix lower unemployment are opposite.

[Kenneth Rogoff]

Well, let me first say the economy might be growing, but the labor jobs are not. I mean, it seemed like just yesterday you would look at the jobs numbers, and if it was below 150,000, that's correct.

[Ali Velshi]

We'd think that would bearable. Disastrous.

[Kenneth Rogoff]

This was 22,000. June was negative, and they're not good numbers. But in answer to your question, if the economy is strong and inflation's high, you can kind of rein in, spend less, raise interest rates. If the economy's weak and you're not worried about inflation, you can goose it up. But when the economy's weak and inflation's high, there's no simple demand management kind of thing. You have to do the tough work of making the economy work better.

[Ali Velshi]

So here's my one question. It is tough work, and it's hard for central banks, even if they have full independence, to do the right things. That's monetary policy. You have to do things on the fiscal policy side, meaning, you know, Congress and the President have to do things. There is something the President can do. Right now, there's great deal of uncertainty about these tariffs. It's putting pressure on bonds, it's putting pressure on the US Dollar. People are just uncertain about what's going to go on. It would fix things to some degree if, if we got some finality and predictability around these tariffs and probably some pullbacks on them.

[Kenneth Rogoff]

I think the market and jobs and everything would be overjoyed if he just said, well, the Supreme Court told me I couldn't. They're terrible, they're terrible people, but I can't do it, of course. That would be fantastic. That's the single most powerful thing he could do, is undo the signature policy.

[Ali Velshi]

Are you worried yet? I mean, you're the guy I call when there's any signs of anything that looks like a recession. Does this, does a little slowdown in the jobs number worry you yet?

[Kenneth Rogoff]

Yeah, I mean, it's been noticeable over the summer. I mean, the report tried to put a spin of saying it's stalled, it's okay, we're treading water. But I'd say a lot of things he's doing are pushing us out to sea. I mean, he's undermining all our institutions. You talked about it. So I'm very nervous about things. I don't know how it'll end, but I don't think it's a good situation for the long term.

[Ali Velshi]

Ken, it's great to see you. Thank you. Thank you. Kenneth Rogoff is a professor of economics at Harvard University. He's the former Chief Economist at the International Monetary Fund, and he's the author of a new important book called Our Dollar your An Insider's View of Seven Turbulent Decades of Global Finance and the Road Ahead. As we mentioned, Donald Trump's deportation raids are also disrupting the economy. What do you think happens to produce prices when the person who picks the fruit disappears? Yesterday, federal agents carried out the largest single site enforcement operation in Homeland Security history. They lined up hundreds of workers outside a Hyundai plant In Georgia, arresting 475 people, most of them South Korean nationals. The Special Agent in charge called in the called it the result of a multi month criminal investigation, but we haven't seen any criminal charges. And the New York Times reports that some US citizens and lawful permanent residents had been detained and were being released. This comes as the city of Chicago is bracing for Donald Trump's threats to expand ICE raids in Chicago, potentially deploying the National Guard, as he has in other Democratic cities like Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. joining us now is the Democratic Congresswoman Lauren Underwood of Illinois. She's a member of the House Appropriations Committee and a ranking member of the Homeland Security Committee. Congressman Underwood, thank you for being with us. This Evening.

[Commercial Announcer]

Thanks for having me.

[Ali Velshi]

We just had a conversation that Jen Psaki had with the governor of Illinois about the preparations underway for what's going on in Chicago. What's your latest information right now? Because Governor Pritzker said there's no direct conversation with the Trump administration on this, but they're hearing things from people that you all know in Homeland Security or in ice.

[Commercial Announcer]

One of the hallmarks of this administration has been a real departure from norms and expectations, including congressional notifications. So, like the governor, we haven't had direct conversations with the department or with ICE regarding this particular planned invasion, deployment, whatever word you want to use. This is unlawful, it's un American, and they are not invited into the city of Chicago or state of Illinois. And that flies in the face of federal law.

[Ali Velshi]

Let me ask you about this, because there's a separate discussion going on here about the misdirection, the misinformation about violent crime in our major cities, about where that violent crime is, about the way it's been trending. But fundamentally, no one will argue that there are issues in Chicago that have to be dealt with specifically as they relate to gun crime. But no experts in this suggest that militarization of police, federalization of the National Guard is actually the way you fight crime in a place like Chicago. There are underlying issues that need to be dealt with that you all have been struggling with for a good amount of time. This is just not that.

[Commercial Announcer]

Well, without a doubt, Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson and Governor Pritzker have been in close coordination with their federal law enforcement partners as they direct the Illinois State Police and the Chicago Police Department. Right. There are ongoing joint investigations and partnerships that have been longstanding. And so this type of escalation, using crime as an excuse, well, Chicagoans, Illinoisans, Americans, know that Donald Trump has used a number of excuses. He used homelessness as an excuse in Washington, D.C. and it is just unacceptable to see this kind of escalation using fear tactics and authoritarian whims from the president. It just really exceeds the type of real serious approach that our elected leaders in our state have taken to addressing this epidemic of gun violence in this country.

[Ali Velshi]

When we saw it in Los Angeles and we saw it in Washington, D.C. and arguably when we saw it in New York, when the federal government made some sort of deal with our mayor to get involved in cooperating with immigration enforcement, it looked to me not like a New York specific or Washington specific or LA specific or Chicago specific thing. It looked like the soft underbelly of being able to militarize, crossing The Rubicon, if you will. Donald Trump being able to do something that we have generally expected not be done by a president. The militarization, the federalization of National Guard and the militarization of policing in our streets.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes. And just as he's trying to exceed his powers and renaming the Defense Department the Department of War. They think it's a game. This is not a game. We are talking about the American people. And in this moment, we have to stand together, united as we are here in Illinois in tough times. What do we do? We come together. We protect one another, especially the most vulnerable in our communities. And that's what all elected leaders are doing across our state right now.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah, it's impressive to watch not just what you're doing in Illinois about this situation, but what you were doing in Illinois with respect to the Texas members of the legislature who came out there and were able to get refuge while they made that a national issue that now other states are taking off. Great to. Great to have you on the show. Thank you. Illinois Congresswoman Lauren Underwood. All right, coming up, Vladimir Putin has inflicted yet another humiliation on Donald Trump. And of course, Donald Trump's response is to do him another solid. That's next.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

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[Ali Velshi]

This week, the world is commemorating the end of World War II, September 2, 1945. That war ended with more than 70 million people dead and entire nations had to rebuild themselves around the idea of never again. Because war destroys people, it destroys economies, it destroys nations. Donald Trump doesn't understand that history or the dividends that post war institutions like NATO and the UN have paid. On Wednesday, China staged a massive military parade of the sort that Donald Trump once wanted for himself on the National Mall on his birthday, which instead was an awkward thing that was full of empty seats and people that Trump obviously forced to attend. China's show of Power featured the leader of the most populous country on earth, India, as well as the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. Look at them all chumming it up. It was a strong men's show of global dominance, which Donald Trump loves and craves, and Trump had to watch from the sidelines. In fact, when asked about the parade on Wednesday, standing with Poland's President Donald Trump said this I thought it was.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

Very, very impressive, but I understood the reason they were doing it and they were hoping I was watching and I was watching.

[Ali Velshi]

He's not entirely wrong. China's Xi Jinping has stolen the world stage. Part of that is a long term effort by China, but a lot of it is because Donald Trump continues to try to burn the world stage down. Trump literally rolled out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin and then let him dominate the truncated summits press conference, a spectacle which continues to deliver nothing but humiliation for Donald Trump. Not only are there zero talks between Putin and Zelensky, which is what Trump supposedly went to Alaska to procure, but when Putin was being welcomed back to the world stage in China this week, Putin said he might have to end the war in Ukraine that he started by using force. He told reporters in China, quote, let's see how the situation develops. If not, then we will have to resolve all the tasks before us by force of arms, end quote. How much clearer does Putin have to make it like that's about as clear a rejection of the Trump theory that he can woo Putin into giving him a win. Putin's already rejected Western security guarantees for Ukraine. And even though the Russian economy is suffering from severe inflation and the Russian military has failed now for three years in its objective to take much of Ukraine, Donald Trump is helping Putin yet again by cutting U.S. aid to the Baltic states, some of NATO's most vulnerable members. They sit on Russia's border and they have large Russian speaking populations. America is watching the rise of strongmen while our president aspires to be one. Joining me now is the retired Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman. He served as the Director for European affairs at the National Security Council during the Trump administration. Also with us, Tom Nichols, professor emeritus at the U.S. naval War College and staff writer at the Atlantic. Gentlemen, good to see you both. Tom, let me start with you because I really want to be clear here. I think China is an adversary. I think China's dangerous. I think China needs to be dealt with. But boy, that was a demonstration. Not just the parade in which you had tens of thousands of goose stepping soldiers all walking in unison and a whole bunch of weaponry. But the audience, the Kim Jong Un, the Narendra Modi, Vladimir Putin, leaders of some democratic countries, all there standing next to a guy who looked like he represented stability and power. No, I think you're there, you're muted, Tom. Sorry about that.

[Tom Nichols]

In the midst of all this chaos, that's the game. I mean, China is putting itself forward and it's been doing this for a while to say, you know, we're, we're a member, we're not crazy. This isn't the Cultural Revolution anymore. We're not a crazy revolutionary power. But especially with Trump just turning the world upside down for no reason, 50% tariffs and trying to bail on the Europeans and so on. The Chinese have kind of stepped forward and said, you may not like us, may not like our regime, but we are calm, we are stable, we respect the status quo, we're open for business, we're predictable. And we won't judge you, we won't judge what kind of regime you are. We're here to talk to anybody. And somehow Trump thinks that he really can just kind of talk all these guys into being his friends and letting him into the cool kids club just by meeting with them. It's childlike, but dangerous.

[Ali Velshi]

Meanwhile, the countries in the world whom we should be wooing and trying to work with, particularly the democracies of the world, we're kind of ignoring. We're fighting with Canada, we're fighting with the Europeans, we're fighting with the Indians, we're fighting with all these folks. Lieutenant Colonel, I will say, Donald, Vladimir Putin's had a great month. I mean, this guy has gone from being a global pariah into being welcomed on American soil. Pulling one over on Donald Trump yet again, and now chumming it up with everybody in China.

[Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman]

It'S pretty clear to me that there has been a consolidation, a collaboration, coordination amongst authoritarian regimes to challenge the established world order. This idea that there are rules to the way states interact together with each other, that aggression from large states, strong states against weak states, is no longer tolerated. This is something that we fought two wars in the 20th century for hundreds of thousands of Americans, millions of souls lost to set these rules. And Trump is creating an enormous amount of opportunity for authoritarian regimes to fill the vacuum of our absence. If we don't build a team of strong allies to counterweight the convergence of China, Russia, North Korea, Iran and other authoritarian, curious regimes, it's a vacuum for them to cast an image, as Tom pointed out, that they are the force to be dealt with and that the US Is no longer, longer alive. And Donald Trump has given gifts to both Xi and Putin over the course of this past month and certainly since his tenure and second tenure.

[Ali Velshi]

An entirely unnecessary gift. It's an unnecessary vacuum. America could actually be there. A lot of these countries would be very happy to do more business with America, but we're sort of pushing them away. Tom, the thing about you two guys, Colonel Vindman has a great deal of experience in Russia and Asia and understanding that stuff, and you have a great deal of experience in the military. I'm not sure there's a strategy here. Donald Trump has been talking about his weave, how he, you know, he likes to change topics, and it's sort of an artful thing, but it seems disastrous lately. When he was talking to the head of the EU the other day in Scotland, it was dramatically stupid. And then he had the Polish president in the other day talking about these seven wars that he's ended. He makes a reference to Congo and Rwanda. And it's very clear that he's either very misinformed, knows nothing about history, or we need to start talking about the 25th amendment. Let's listen to what he said.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

The tariffs are vital to the success of this country. When I say I ended seven wars, at least half of those wars were ended because of the power of tariffs. I was able to say, well, we're not doing any business with you, or if you're going to war, we're putting a big tariff on you. And all of a sudden they announced that the war was settled, I would settle. I settled seven different wars, one going 31 years, one look at the Congo and Rwanda. Look at that. 31 years, 10 million people dead.

[Ali Velshi]

I'm not going to get into the fact that he's conflating very different things. The Rondo genocide estimate is that 800,000 to 2 million people were killed was a very different thing than he just said that he settled. He also said he settled three pre wars. Tom. I don't know what a pre war is. And that's why he should. All his staff keep telling him he should get something called the Nobel Prize for Peace. I don't know. Does he not know what he's talking about or what is this all about?

[Tom Nichols]

No, he doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean, let's start with the obvious problem that goes back a long way, which is that Donald Trump is not a very intelligent person. I would argue he's probably the least intelligent human being ever to hold the Oval Office, maybe one of the least intelligent people ever to be set loose in American public life. Although there are some members of Congress over the past 100 years who could give him a good run. But certainly at this level of seniority in the White House, to have somebody like this who just doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't understand the international system. He still doesn't understand how tariffs work, even though he's been in love with them for 50 years. But I think there's also an encroaching problem here that as he's getting older, he's getting weirder. I mean, he, you know, he says things and, you know, I hate to do this game of what if another president did it? Because it's so close to what about ism? But considering the amount of fire that the Republicans directed at Joe Biden for mumbling or forgetting somebody's name, you know, if Joe Biden had sounded like Donald Trump, there would have been hearings, there would have been impeachment, there would have been demands for the 25th Amendment. And I think the really unfortunate thing is the Republicans and the rest of the American electorate has to shoulder some of this burden. Millions of Americans have decided that this is just how he is. He doesn't make any sense. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He talks crazy about sharks and electrocution and his uncle and blah, blah. But, you know, we've just decided to accept that a emotionally disordered, deeply ignorant person is the commander in chief of the United States Armed Forces with his finger on the button of 1800, 1700 strategic nuclear weapons.

[Ali Velshi]

In a dangerous world. Yeah, in a dangerous world. Colonel, I want to ask you one quick question. What is this thing about aid or some military assistance that we We've ceased to some Baltic nations. What's the implication of that in the.

[Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman]

Big scheme of things? It's not a huge amount of money. We're talking about some hundreds of millions over the course of years, seven or eight years. But symbolically, it's important. It shows another withdrawal of our support. I mean, we're talking about Baltic states that are spending significant portions of their GDP to help float the Ukrainian war effort. They're transferring enormous amounts of material and they were counting on these training programs to continue to sustain their own defense efforts. So, I mean, there's a lot of things that don't make sense. You know, this whole nonsense about the Department of War, something that we fought World War II and pivoted to the Department of Defense because we were trying to cast a different future for ourselves, for the whole globe. They're reversing course somehow. We're woke since 47 when that name changed. I mean, these are absurd notions. He ended these wars like he ended the Ukraine, Russia war in 24 hours. It's all made up. It's all make believe. It doesn't make any sense. But he says it and you know, to some people it's acceptable. To most of us, we just kind of brush it off our shoulders, unfortunately. And we're going to subject ourselves to this for almost another three and a half years.

[Ali Velshi]

Guys, thanks for joining us. I appreciate it. Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman and Tom Nichols. All right, coming up, the former Fox weekend host that's running the Pentagon said today he wants maximum lethality, not tepid legality, violent effect, not politically correct. We're gonna raise up worriers, not just offenders. The most ridiculous part of that statement was that he said it next to President Bone spurs. That's next.

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Congressman Adam Smith]

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Congressman Adam Smith]

So I thought it would be fun.

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[Ali Velshi]

See mintmobile.com On November 6, 2024, Donald Trump said this in his reelection speech.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

We had no wars. Four years we had no wars. They said. He will start a war. I'm not going to start a war. I'm going to stop wars.

[Ali Velshi]

Which makes it all the more confusing that the supposed peace loving anti war president, who of course avoided the draft himself because of bone spurs in his feet during the Vietnam War, decided to sign an executive order today, essentially asking people to call the Department of Defense. The Department of War. To be clear, officially changing the name of the Department of Defense would require an act of Congress and 60 votes in the Senate, which Trump could not get today. Pete Hegseth, the former Fox Weekend host serving as Trump's defense secretary, said this.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

The War Department is going to fight decisively, not endless conflicts. It's going to fight to win, not not to lose. We're going to go on offense, not just on defense. Maximum lethality, not tepid legality.

[Ali Velshi]

Maximum lethality, not tepid legality. What does that mean? Seriously? Does it mean kill people? A lot of people? The maximum number of people, possibly in contravention of the law? Is that just a cosplay expression from a clownish defense secretary, or is that an actual statement of policy? Could be the latter. The New York Times reports the Trump administration declared the start of a new and potentially violent campaign against Venezuelan cartels on Wednesday. Wednesday, defending a deadly US Military strike on a boat that officials said was carrying drugs, even as specialists in the law of war questioned the legality of the attack. The Trump administration has not offered any legal rationale, but Defense Secretary Pete Hegson said in an appearance on Fox and Friends on Wednesday that administration officials knew exactly who was in that boat and exactly what they were doing, although he offered no evidence. Video of the incident posted by Donald Trump on social media. Look at this. It appears to show a long multi engine speedboat traveling at sea when a bright flash of light bursts right over the aircraft. The boat is then briefly seen covered in flames. NBC News notes the video, which is largely in black and white, is not clear enough to see if the craft is carrying as many as 11 people. The video also didn't show any large or clear stashes of drugs inside the boat. Joining me now is Congressman Adam Smith of Washington. He's the top ranking Democrat of the Armed Services Committee. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. I'm. I mean, part of it, forgetting about the legality of it, and that's not something we want to forget about, because that's important, is that this week, if you were looking at militaries and strong militaries and what they were doing, China was showing you how strong they were and we blew up a boat outside of Venezuela.

[Congressman Adam Smith]

Yeah, look, I mean, that was one of the most disturbing press conferences I've seen in some time because Trump basically is doing two things. One, he is weakening the United States and placing us in greater danger in a thousand different ways. And then he really thinks he can just lie his way out of it. The number of lies told in that press conference, including all these wars he supposedly has stopped. I mean, let's just take the India Pakistan war, which he said he threatened tariffs, and that's how the war ended. Modi has made it quite clear that President Trump had nothing to do with stopping a conflict between India and Pakistan. And then Trump put the 50% tariff on India. So if the threat of terrorists was what was supposed to have stopped the war you put the tariffs on and the people involved said you had nothing to do with it.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah.

[Congressman Adam Smith]

And believe me, we could talk for hours about all the lies that contained in that press conference. So let's go from the lies to reality. The reality is the war in Ukraine is worse than ever because of the weakness that Donald Trump has shown to Putin, giving Putin a green light in Ukraine to keep fighting in a thousand different ways. The war in Gaza is worse because President Trump is not trying to put any pressure whatsoever on Benjamin Netanyahu or do anything to stop that war. And now he wants to start wars with every drug cartel in the world. That is an enormous expansion. And the idea that if we Just drop enough bombs and kill enough people, the world will bend to our will. Did it look like China and Russia were bending to our will yesterday?

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

Yeah, it did not.

[Ali Velshi]

It did not look like that.

[Congressman Adam Smith]

Pushing our allies away, making us weaker and placing us in danger and trying to get away with it by saying, I'm just gonna lie to you, I'm just gonna create whatever reality I want to create. And we sit there and we listen to it.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

Yep.

[Congressman Adam Smith]

I mean, the lies are endless. Let's focus on the reality. And the reality is Trump has placed our country at greater danger. He has weakened us. He has alienated our allies and strengthened our adversaries.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah, he's right. He posted this morning or yesterday. He said we've lost India because Modi is out in Shanghai doing this stuff. You know why we lost India? India is a democracy. They would like to trade with us. They do buy Russian oil. I get it. I'd rather they didn't. But they and China have energy shortages. But we could have done this a different way. Instead, we put 50% tariffs on them.

[Congressman Adam Smith]

Well, and why did we book 50% tariffs on them? We booked 50% tariffs on them because Trump was offended that Modi wouldn't give him credit for ending a war. That Trump didn't deserve credit for this notion that he did it because India buys Russian oil. Trump won't even enforce our sanctions on Russia. He's not putting a tariff on India because of that concern. He blew off an ally because the ally refused to lie for him personally. I mean, it's just placing us in so much greater danger. And then the idea that, oh, but we've solved the problem by changing the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War. That's going to send a power. It's ridiculous. And the policies he's implementing are incredibly harmful to us. Focus on the policies, not the lies.

[Ali Velshi]

And we'll leave aside all that stuff that Pete Hagsett said about why legality and lethality and it was just gibberish. Congressman, good to see you as always. Thank you for being with us. Armed Services ranking member Congressman Adam Schiff. Adam Smith. I'm sorry. Coming up, another day, another way that Trump is screwing over regular people. He gets a Cuttery plane for himself and he cancels airline refunds for you. That's next. If you find yourself stranded at the airport because your flight was delayed or worse, canceled, Donald Trump has just made sure you will not get compensated. The Trump administration is doing away with a Biden era proposal requiring airlines to pay passengers stranded by a canceled or significantly delayed flight, as well as to foot the bill for meals, hotels and rebookings in cases where the airline was at fault. This, of course, comes after Donald Trump formally accepted a $400 billion Boeing 747 from Qatar.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

I could be a stupid person and say, oh no, we don't want a free plane. We give free things out. We'll take one, too.

[Ali Velshi]

Trump may call the jet from Qatar a free plane, but American taxpayers are the ones footing the more than $1 billion bill to retrofit, upgrade and secure that free plane for Trump's use. So while you're stuck wandering the terminal halls eating food at extortionary prices, your tax dollars are paying for Trump's free plane. A passenger rights organization told the New York Times the Trump change is unfortunate and ultimately self defeating. Without a delay compensation rule, airlines do not have the incentive needed to make their systems reliable. Noting that currently the cost of delays, the cost of the flight brownouts, is borne by the passenger, Congressman Steve Cohen, who authored and helped enact protections for air travelers, said, quote, these rules exist because the airlines, left to their own devices, repeatedly fail their customers. The flying public deserves the reforms we enacted, especially the automatic refunds for canceled or long delayed flights, the elimination of fees for seating children with their parents, the treatment of mobility devices like wheelchairs, and several other improvements to the flying experience the airline lobby is trying to eliminate, end quote. Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee. He's a former member of the House Transportation Committee, where he served as the top Democrat on the Aviation Subcommittee. Congressman, great to see you again. Thank you for being with us. Couple things. First of all, Donald Trump made some reference to airline fares being $2 or something like that. He hasn't paid for an airline fare in quite many decades, so I don't think he understands any of this. But you remember when there used to be all those flight delays and then they imposed a rule that said if you delay this many people for this long, it'll be this much of a fine per passenger. All of a sudden those delays where you sat on the tarmac for three plus hours disappeared. Like that's just how it works. If you don't make a rule, the airlines are not going to give you any money for. They're not going to give you anything back. They're not going to change their behavior.

[Commercial Announcer / Promo Voice]

No, they're not.

[Congressman Steve Cohen]

Santa Claus. Yeah, they don't come in on a slight.

[Ali Velshi]

Let's talk about this particular thing. What's the motivation Here, why are we not doing something that's not about costing the government money, not about costing the taxpayer money, it's about saying to the airlines, behave properly. You will pay compensation for things you do wrong. Like every other business I do deal with has to pay money for things they do when they do something wrong. What's the motivation?

[Congressman Steve Cohen]

Well, in almost every country in the world, there are consumer protections for airline travel. And we tried to even up those in the aviation bill that we passed last year. It was a really good bill. And the things that are in law, they can't change. But some of them were done by regulation and with our encouragement. But Pete Buttigieg went a little further on, given more consumer protections. And those. They can change, unfortunately, and they will. There's not been a Republican administration that cared for consumers over the corporate, corporate structures. And this administration has given unbelievable tax breaks to the wealthiest people in America. And then they also give all kind of benefits to the biggest corporations in America. And whether it's the fossil fuels industry or whether it's the airline industry or every industry, that's where they're at. That's who Donald Trump's about. So don't ever think as an individual you're going to get anything out of this administration that benefits you as a consumer.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah. By the way, the lobby association, Airlines for America for the Airlines, has put out a statement. We're encouraged by this Department of Transportation reviewing unnecessary and burdensome regulations that exceed its authority and don't solve issues important to our customers. I fly probably on average once a week. It's very important to me. We pay a fee, we schedule things, we expect to get to a place. And I get that things go wrong, But I would like incentives in place for them to go right, and if they're not that, that I get compensated. I paid money for a flight that departs at a particular time and lands at a particular time.

[Congressman Steve Cohen]

We should expect that and we should be able to plan for that. So when we land, people know where we're going to land and we shouldn't have to give up time when we could be doing families or doing business or whatever one has to do. When they land and they're inconvenienced often, sometimes it's because they don't have enough crew to make the flight go. They don't have either flight attendants or pilots, and then they messed up their staffing. That the airline should be responsible for acts of God, bad weather, etc. That's something else. But when it's the flute. When it's the crew, they should be responsible. And almost every country in the world makes them responsible. But they don't want to have regulations. If it's in the law, they said they'll follow it, but of break. But they in the law, they have the lobbyist. That's where they have more influence than any place else. Well, now apparently with Secretary Duffy, they've got a lot of power to Secretary.

[Ali Velshi]

Duffy, who after he left Congress became an airline industry lobbyist. Surprise, surprise. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for joining us this evening. Tennessee Congressman Steve Cohen. Before you go, by the way, I was talking about that jet that the cutteries gave Trump. It was. I said 400 billion. The jet was $400 million. Tonight's last word is next. All right. Tomorrow on the Valshi Band Book Club, I will be speaking to an author whose contribution to American literature simply cannot be overstated. Stephen King, who has written modern classics like the Shining, the Stand, the Green mile, Shawshank Redemption. It King has published more than 65 novels and over 200 short stories, including a brand new adaptation of Hansel and Gretel. Do not miss my conversation with the one and only Stephen King, America's best expert on exploring our society through some very scary stories. That's tonight's Last Word.

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