← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Democracy Forward to probe reported Trump demand for $230M
00:41:14
Tonight on The Last Word: House Democrats investigate what they call Donald Trump’s “effort to steal $230 million from American people.” Also, American farmers are hit hard by Trump’s policies. And the ACLU takes on the Trump administration’s migrant detention policies. Rep. Eric Swalwell, Skye Perryman, Toluse Oloruppina, Rep. John Garamendi, and Lee Gelernt join Jacob Soboroff.
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Homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Get all your jobs done well@angie.com all right. It is day 23, day 23 of the government shutdown, and the effects are hitting communities across the nation. From missed paychecks to threats to food services, millions of Americans are feeling the strain. But Donald Trump is focused on something else entirely. You know it, the White House itself. Donald Trump has torn down the entire east wing of the White House, which belongs to the American people, to add a ballroom named after himself. It's something President Barack Obama actually joked about 14 years ago at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
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C
Say what you will about Mr. Trump, he certainly would bring some change to the White House.
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A
See what we've got up there.
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C
So.
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B
Today, Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski said this when asked about the White House wrecking ball.
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D
The optics are not good. And I mean, think about it. Think about the scenario that people are looking at.
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A
They're seeing the headlines that say snap benefits, food benefits for lower income people may not be available next week.
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D
Federal funding for nursing moms, WIC benefits may not be available after the 1st of November. And then you have a White House.
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Where.
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They'Re expanding a massive ballroom.
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The optics. Is it the optics that are bad? Because cutting formula for babies born into poverty while building a vulgar ballroom seems pretty bad in actuality, just full stop. Add to that Donald Trump's latest reported demand that the American taxpayers give him $230 million for the federal investigations into him. And now House Democrats are launching an investigation into what they call Trump's blatantly illegal plan. The top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman Jamie Raskin, and the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia, wrote today in a letter addressed to Donald Trump. In remarks to the press this week, you described a blatantly illegal and unconstitutional effort to steal $230 million from the American your plan to have obedient underlings at the Department of Justice instruct the US treasury to pay you personally, personally hundreds of millions of dollars, especially at a time when most Americans are struggling to pay rent, put food on the table and afford healthcare, is an outrageous and shocking attempt to shake down the American people. The founders feared presidents like you might one day be tempted to use their powers to steal U.S. taxpayer funds. That's why they enshrined a very simple rule into the Constitution, which is called the Domestic Emoluments Clause. As president, you may not receive any payment from the federal government or any of the states except for your salary, which is currently fixed by Law at $400,000 per year. That is a categorical prohibition, not even waivable by Congress. Unlike the Foreign Emoluments Clause, where Congress can approve an otherwise illegal receipt of a gift like the $400 million airplane you want to accept from Qatar, we urge you to renounce your plan publicly and assure the American people that their president is not pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars at their expense. Ranking members Raskin and Garcia are also demanding that Trump turn over any documents, any legal analysis or communication between him and any White House or DOJ official regarding the scheme to rob American taxpayers. The legal nonprofit Democracy Forward is also taking action. The organization has filed Freedom of Information act requests writing, quote, president Trump is reportedly attempting to obtain $230 million in compensation for federal investigations into him from the Department of Justice while he serves as president. The matter raises grave ethical concerns for both President Trump personally and for Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, who previously served as Trump's personal defense attorney and may now be involved in reviewing or approving the claim. Public transparency is essential to shed light on this stunning and unprecedented potential breach of ethical safeguards. Democracy Forward is asking for, quote, all records and communications reflecting payments made by the doj, Department of Treasury or other parts of the federal government to President Trump on the basis of claims of liability, as well as communications, including signal messages between key officials in the DOJ regarding the president's claims. The New York Times reports that Donald Trump filed two separate complaints. The first claim, lodged in late 2023, seeks damages for a number of purported violations of his rights, including the FBI and special counsel investigation into Russian election tampering and possible connections to the 2016 Trump campaign, according to people familiar with the matter. The second complaint, filed in the summer of 2024, accuses the FBI of violating Mr. Trump's privacy by searching Mar A Lago, his club and residence in Florida in 2022 for classified documents. It also accuses the Justice Department of malicious prosecution in charging him with mishandling sensitive records after he left office. It's very important to know exactly what's happening inside the levers of government on this $230 million gift to Trump. It doesn't matter what Donald Trump, who the Washington Post reported made 30,573 false or misleading claims during his first term, says about it.
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C
I don't know what the numbers are. I don't even talk to them about it. All I know is that they would owe me a lot of money. But I'm not looking for money. I'd give it to charity something.
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In 2016, the Washington Post reported, quote, Trump promised to donate earnings from a wide variety of his money making enterprises. The Apprentice, Trump Vodka, Trump University, a book, another book. If he had honored all of those pledges, Trump's gifts to charity would have topped $8.5 million. Public records showed that Trump donated about $2.8 million through a foundation set up to give his money away. Less than a third of the pledged amount. And nothing since 2009. Records show Trump has given nothing to his foundation since 2008. Today, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries described the 23rd day of the government shutdown this way.
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Electricity bills through the roof, housing costs out of control, Grocery costs way up. Trump tariffs causing thousands of dollars in additional expense on everyday Americans. And now the extremists, the Republicans in the Congress, in the House, in the Senate, in the White House, could care less about the fact that tens of millions of Americans are about to experience dramatically increased premiums, co pays and deductibles. That's out of control. And they could care less. What are they doing? Destroying the White House so that Donald Trump can build a ballroom where he's celebrated like a wannabe king? Donald Trump's trying to steal $230 million from the taxpayers by shaking down the Department of Injustice. And these extremists, they somehow have managed to find $40 billion to bail out Argentina. And they can't find a dime to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits for working class Americans, everyday Americans, and and middle class Americans.
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B
Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California. He is a member of the House Judiciary Committee and served as an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump. Congressman, good to see you.
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E
You too, Jacob.
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B
Thanks so much. We just heard Hakeem Jeffries describe this as out of control. You serve on the Judiciary Committee. When you first saw these reports that the President is attempting to get the Justice Department to pay him 230 million bucks, what was your first reaction?
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E
Well, if he had gone through with the proceedings and was acquitted, then maybe he would have some legal standing or a right to seek this. But as you know, he came into office, has declared himself and has a Supreme Court ruling that backs him up in many ways that he can do almost anything while in office. And so we don't know ultimately what would have happened at a jury trial. But the charges of mishandling national security secrets, inspiring and sending a mob to the Capitol on January 6, those are quite serious. And they didn't fully play out because he made the cases go away. So I don't see how it'd be fair that he enriches himself. But, you know, the bigger issue here is there's this pattern, and we're seeing it over the last couple weeks, of just completely wasting the taxpayers money while everyday Americans have real needs. So they were promised costs would go down on day one. And instead they see that the Department of Homeland Security is spending nearly $200 million for two jets for the homeland security secretary. $40 billion going to Argentina and we're going to start buying Argentina beef rather than supporting our own agriculture farmers here in America. And now again, looking at the White House in the ballroom there and this potential payout, Americans are just asking, what about me and what about my costs?
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B
I hear them say it all the time. What type of response do you expect your colleagues, Congressmen Raskin and Garcia, to get from the president or the Trump team, if any at all?
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E
Yeah, well, we know that this is why winning elections matters. And we can send letters to the White House and telegraph what we're going to do when we're in the majority. And we have every intention of being in the majority. But Democracy Forward and other organizations, you know, and Mark Elias is one of the leaders in many of these organizations, they're so critical right now because without a Congress that checks abuses and corruption, you need a court to go to and you need an independent judiciary. And so these organizations also, the aclu, have been quite effective in putting sand in the gears of the President's corruption. But two weeks from now, we will know what kind of midterm picture we're going into. Jacob, because you have four elections that are going to tell us what, what the environment is. You have Prop 50 in California where we're going to match the five seats that were Taken in Texas, you have the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, where three Democratic justices are up for retention, and of course, the governor's races in New Jersey and Virginia. We win those four races, that's momentum. And that should worry Republicans, that when we're in power, there's going to be accountability.
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B
And might I add, everybody should tune in on the Tuesday night for that Election Day, because we will be on the ground in every one of those places. Congressman Swallow, stand by for one second because I want to bring in Sky Perri, the president and CEO of Democracy Forward. We've been talking a lot about Sky. What Democracy Forward is trying to find out. Walk us through it.
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D
Well, you know, the American people don't OWE Donald Trump $230 million. This is just completely unethical and is another part of his agenda to try to normalize things that are not normal and that are not lawful and that are not ethical in America. And so we have filed a demand request through the Freedom of Information Act. We will see see if the Department of Justice and the other agencies that we've requested information from respond. And if they don't, we're going to go to court.
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B
As someone who has filed many FOIA requests with my colleagues at MSNBC against this administration over a wide variety of issues, you know, I know what type of response or maybe lack thereof, you know, we are likely to receive from them. What do you think the public can expect from Democracy Forward in the coming days or weeks as the FOIA requests, you know, either sit there and stall or move forward in some way?
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D
What the public can expect from us is that we are going to fight every single day, and we go to court against this administration to force them to be transparent and to shine a light. And we've been able to successfully force the administration to provide information to the public through using the courts. And so that's what they can expect from us. That's what we're going to do every single day. But you're right, what they can expect from this administration is probably more of the same. This is an administration that continues to try to hide, to try to hide in the shadows, and then comes out almost like a bully and tries to taunt the American public. There are right now civil servants who are doing the work of the American people that are in food lines. Food lines, because this administration has completely bankrupted the government during this shutdown. You know, we have people in this country that cannot afford basic needs. And you have a president that has the audacity of saying that the American people owe him 230 million doll. So it is unethical, it is immoral, it is unlawful, and you're going to see us in court.
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B
Explain to me, sky, if the Justice Department are consider approving this payment, what would have to actually happen internally inside the doj? Is there any legitimate legal pathway for the president to receive that money? It sounds absurd.
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D
It is absurd. It's unconstitutional. For the reasons that members of Congress have pointed out, the president cannot receive payments from the government other than his own salary while he is in office. But one of the most unethical things is this is the type of claim he is making would require people himself that he appointed to sign off on it, including Todd Blanche, the deputy Attorney general, who served as the president's counsel in some of these matters. So these are layers upon layers upon layers of corruption. It is problematic and it's all part of an effort to distract from the fact that this administration has made no one's life better since inauguration. And that's why we and our colleagues at Democracy Forward and so many organizations are on the front lines in the courts and in the public square pushing these issues, enforcing transparency.
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B
Sky Pearman, thank you so much for being here. So helpful to hear from you. Congressman Swalwell, before you go, I do have one more question. What's your level of confidence right now that this 230, as the East Wing of the White House is being torn down, the $230 million transfer of money to Trump will actually not happen?
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E
Oh, I think he has every intention of doing it. You know, we have to take him at his word because he has been as awful or worse than, you know, what he promised on the campaign trail. So we, we have to be ready. But again, this is why elections matter. This is why being in the majority matters. And what we can do, Jacob, is to make it clear to anyone who's going to be a part of this type of corruption. Get yourself familiar with the House Judiciary and House Oversight Committees, because you're going to be spending a lot of time there answering questions under oath before Congress if you're going to do these type of drug deals on behalf of the president.
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B
You know, I said last question. But I do have to ask you, because you know this part of my state very well. A taco update. Trump always chickens out. Last night we were reporting on Trump's plan to send the National Guard to San Francisco. Didn't happen. Tonight. The good people of Northern California are safe from this surge of military force. For now. What are you hearing from the streets of Northern California.
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E
We know it's not happening in San Francisco were unclear on the East Bay where I represent. But I'll just say, you know, the mayor of San Francisco has been doing a terrific job. He came in is sort of a reform mayor prioritizing public safety. Same thing in Oakland. Barbara Lee is prioritizing public safety, trying to hire more police officers. So why would you want to mess with that other than to just try and own the lip? So I'm happy that he has not done it. And, you know, we need to let these mayors and their departments do the work to keep the public safe.
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B
Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you so much. Good to see you.
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E
My pleasure. Thanks, Jacob.
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B
Coming up, Donald Trump is failing on another promise to his voters, shielding his supporters from the very harmful consequences of Trump's government shutdown. That's coming up next. Stay with us.
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Who is harmed by a government shutdown. In Donald Trump's mind, it's just the Democrats.
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We're closing up programs that are Democrat programs that we were opposed to. We're not closing up Republican programs.
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B
Of course, the largest employer in the United States of America is the federal government. And of course, many of those jobs are in red states in the Atlantic. Our next guest reports about some of the people whose lives and livelihoods are being upended by the Republican shutdown farmers, a key constituency for Trump, are among those getting hurt. The Department of Agriculture halted crucial farm aid just as planning for the 2026 planting season was getting underway. Furloughs and mass layoffs, meanwhile, have decimated a small business lending program popular in rural communities. Federal subsidies keeping small town airports afloat are scheduled to run out within days. And despite what Trump might suggest, the majority of federal employees who are currently going without a paycheck live outside of the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area. Trump friendly West Virginia, for instance, has among the highest number of government workers per capita in the country. This sounds familiar. This is an echo of the Elon Musk Doge cuts. Earlier this year, I spoke with coal miners in West Virginia who were stunned by Trump musk cuts to federal programs that were focused on reducing black lung disease. As someone who's still working underground, are you worried about what that means for your health?
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Absolutely.
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Without having the protection or the sampling.
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And some of the stuff that NIOSH does, we're not going to be nearly as protected as once we where we are now. They just started closing things up and.
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Not even looking what they're doing. This needs to be reinstated as quick as possible.
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B
Otherwise the mines might survive, but not the miners. The New York Times reported last week that coal miners have ratcheted up their protest against the Trump administration. The Times reports this labor unions, Democrats and a growing number of minors accused the Trump administration of ignoring workers while using hundreds of millions of dollars in federal subsidies to bolster companies that oper coal plants and mining operations. The wife of one coal miner who died in March from black lung told the the coal miners have supplied this country with electricity and now they're just cast aside to die. West Virginia is among the poorest states in the country, along with Louisiana and Mississippi, New Mexico, Kentucky and Oklahoma. All but one which voted for Donald Trump in 2024. On November 1, millions of low income Americans will lose access to food aid when snap benefits are stopped in at least 25 states. Food insecurity is not a blue state problem. Republican lawmakers know that Trump's claim that only blue state voters are being hurt is not true. The Atlantic reports Republicans are privately clamoring for additional carve outs or bailouts to shield their constituents from the growing impact of a closed government and are more publicly acknowledging that the expiring health care subsidies at the core of the shutdown fight will also hurt their voters. All of this could force Trump, who has so far been something of a bit player in the shutdown drama, to take on a more central role in the inevitable deal making necessary to reopen the government. But today, the White House admitted what the bit player shutdown drama really cares about is his stage.
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D
Of course, the ballroom is really the president's main priority.
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B
Joining us now is Toluse Olorunipa, staff writer for the Atlantic. He is the Pulitzer Prize winning co author of his name is George Floyd, One Man's Life and the Struggle for Racial Justice. Toluse, you spoke with Arkansas State Representative Diane Vaught, who is worried about local farms closing amid the government shutdown. And you wrote that she likened the situation to a tsunami coming. Explain to us why the situation is so particularly dire for farmers across America.
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F
Well, farmers were already struggling before this government shutdown took place. And when the government shutdown happened, a number of Farm Service Agency offices, which are local USDA offices across the country in rural America, in these various counties where farmers are operating, they go to those offices to get loans, commodity loans, to get short term assistance, to be able to make sure that their crops are able to be marketed going forward. And they were already struggling from Trump's tariffs. They were struggling from the low prices because of the trade war that the president put into place. And now you hit them with the government shutdown. And a number of them, especially in the state of Arkansas, are in really dire straits. And so local leaders there decided to send a resolution, basically send up a red flare for the White House, a resolution saying we need leadership from President Donald Trump to help us amid this government shutdown and amid this broader problem that we have in our market. And right now, it seems like the president, the White House are focused on a lot of other things. They aren't really focused on trying to make this shutdown not as painful as it has been or to end it at some point. Instead, they seem to be focused on trying to weaponize the shutdown. The president has been cutting different programs for quote, unquote, Democrat cities and Democrat agencies, even though a number of these programs impact Republicans as well. These are programs that are needed and used by constituents of all different political backgrounds. And the president has said that the shutdown is hurting Democrats and that Republican programs are not being impacted. That's just an alternate reality from what is actually happening on the ground in a number of these states, including the states that voted very heavily in his favor, like West Virginia, Arkansas, Mississippi and beyond.
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B
That's what's so extraordinary about this, as well as the fact that more than I think 300 energy projects that Trump canceled were supposed to be just this enormous boom in Republican districts. I know you spoke with local leaders in those communities as well. What did they tell you?
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F
Yeah, when Russ Vogt, the OMB director who works for Donald Trump, posted online that he was canceling all of these energy projects, he listed 16 states. They were all states that Donald Trump lost last year. He didn't mention the state of Montana, which was also being impacted by this. And I spoke to some leaders in Montana who said that they were waiting for funding from the federal government to help replace jobs that had been lost and create new jobs in hydrogen production and that was going to provide some high paying jobs in a very hard hit part of western Montana. Rush votes, actions and Donald Trump's actions canceled that project abruptly. And Republicans like the Republican governor who were in favor of that project said it was going to bring good paying jobs to Montana. Instead, they got a cancellation notice and now they're not able to bring those jobs. And so really hard hit places that are already struggling, that are already in dire economic straits, that we're looking for a little bit of momentum, a little bit of opportunity to create new jobs were hit with this. And even in blue states that voted against Donald Trump, a lot of those districts that were supposed to get this money from green energy projects to help produce new jobs for the new economy were in rural state, rural parts of the state. We're in rural parts of the country. And so the effort to try to weaponize the shutdown and direct the harm and the pain of it towards Democrats is not actually working. A lot of people are being hurt. And as you mentioned, November 1st is coming. A lot of the people who are on snap, yes, a lot of them do live in cities, but a lot of them live in rural America. A lot of them live in these hard hit places that have been left behind in the 21st century economy and are just trying to make ends meet. And sometimes they need a little bit of government assistance if they're not able to get it. I'm sure the president and the White House will be hearing from their very from them very soon.
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B
Tulou Olarunipa, fantastic reporting. Thank you so much for being here.
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F
Thank you.
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B
Coming up, new reporting on the latest way Donald Trump wants to use taxpayer dollars on guess who himself. All while those very same taxpayers are feeling the impacts of Donald Trump's government shutdown. That's coming up next.
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Donald Trump wants you to pay him $230 million for the federal investigations into him. According to the New York Times. Yes, Donald Trump is hunting for a quarter billion dollars of taxpayer money while building a White House ballroom. While the government is shut down and federal workers are not being paid, while SNAP benefits are threatened for millions of families and while people are finding the cost of their health insurance premiums spiking. And while the $230 million number is shocking and the demand is new, we have seen this corrupt impulse before. Do you remember the estimated $400 million in taxpayer money that Donald Trump wants to convert a hand me down Qatar plane to a private jet for his own use in the middle of a government shutdown. Republicans in the Senate voted down another effort by Democrats to stop Trump from using your money on a Qatari plane for himself. Politico reports that Senate Republicans on Thursday rebuffed a Democratic led effort to block funding for President Donald Trump to convert a gifted Qatari jetliner into Air Force One. Retrofitting the Qatari plane is likely to cost hundreds of millions of dollars, with some estimates putting the cost at upwards of 1 billion to strip the plane down and install secure communications and other protective measures so it can carry the US President while families are struggling to afford health Care Republicans are greenlighting nearly half a billion in taxpayer money for a Trump jet. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California. He is a member of the House Armed Services Committee and a former California insurance commissioner. Congressman, it's great to see you.
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C
Good to be with you.
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B
Thanks so much. To govern is to choose. What do you think about all these choices being made by the party in power controlling both houses of Congress right at this very second?
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C
Well, therein lies the fundamental problem. There really is no oversight. The Republicans are simply not doing the job of Congress. And that's, first of all, to make sure you appropriate the money so that the President does have. Trump doesn't have a slush fund right now. He has a massive slush fund. That's problem one. The second is you've got to find out where the money's going and is it being spammed. The Republicans are simply not doing that. If they were doing it, if we were back in session. And that raises another question about why the speaker is not bringing us back to session. I suppose because he doesn't want us back there asking questions. But the reality is that the Congress has to do its job, and we're not doing it. We're not in session. We're not able to ask those questions. The hearings are not taking place. There is unbelievable amount of corruption going on here. The Qatari jet is just one example. And by the way, that jet, after three years, when Trump leaves the presidency, that's his jet. He's going to take that with him. He says he's going to use it in his presidential library. Well, maybe so, but my guess, it's going to be his own private jet, and he'll probably repaint it with the big Trump sign on the side of it. That's just one item of corruption. It goes on and on and on. And the reality is this government is a corrupt government. It is the most corrupt government we've ever had in the United States. And we've had some bad ones, but nothing like this. Cryptocurrency issues. $2 billion invested by Qatar in Trump's family coin program. And what does Qatar get? They get some of the most advanced computer chips. Well, not some. They get a whole lot of the most advanced computer chips that exist in this world, presumably for their own AI, But China can get them also from Qatar. This is just unbelievable corruption. One thing after another, it spins our heads. But the fact of the matter is we need to get back and we need to ask the questions. Your previous Members of Congress were quite right about all of this. We have a job to do. The speaker's not letting us do our job. Another period of corruption.
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B
The viewers of this broadcast know you as a congressman from the great state of California, but people in my home state know you as well as the California insurance commissioner formerly, and you helped pass the Affordable Care act, of course, in 2009 as well. Talk to us about what real people literally are experiencing in the insurance market right now as a result of Trump and the Republicans refusing to extend all of these different subsidies.
- [33:04]
C
Well, this is what happened. Trump and the Republicans decided to give a massive trillion dollar tax cut to the super wealthy, to corporations, the billionaire class and the like. To pay for that, they went into the programs that Americans depend upon, specifically the health care program. Medicaid will be cut by over $800 billion beginning next year. And this year, the support for the insurance premiums this year, the Affordable Care act insurance, health insurance premiums is going to end at the end of December. Now, in preparation for that, the insurance companies in California, the insurance companies are now sending out notices to their policyholders, nearly 2 million of them in the covered California program. And that's the biggest. But there are others that their policyholders are receiving notices that there will be price increases for those policies. On average, it'll be a doubling. We have an example that came to us in the last couple of days in my district that a woman phoned in and said, oh, my God, we just got a notice and we're going to see from $800 to $2,200 increase in our premiums. We simply can't afford it. That is an example. And all across California and for 24 million Americans, the same thing's going to occur because the Republicans decided it's more important that the corporations and the wealthy have a tax cut than Americans have.
- [34:40]
B
Health insurance, a doubling of insurance premiums. Congressman John Garamendi, good to see you. Thank you so much for being here.
- [34:47]
C
You got it. Thank you.
- [34:50]
B
Coming up, Donald Trump continues to abuse his power by trying to hold migrants at Guantanamo Bay. And the ACLU is fighting back against Donald Trump's attack on those migrants. Lee Galernt of the ACLU joins us next. Donald Trump is still in court fighting to be able to hold migrants at Gitmo, even as that massively expensive boondoggle never held more than a few hundred people for a short period of time. And now it holds none at all. The New York Times reported last week US officials have deported 18 migrants who are being held at the Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, leaving the temporary holding site vacant once again. Charter aircraft transported the men to Guatemala and El Salvador on Thursday and Friday, according to officials who were not authorized to discuss the operations and spoke on the condition of anonymity. The operation cleared the base of migrants six days before a federal court hearing in Washington. That court hearing was held this afternoon. The American Civil Liberties Union brought the case arguing that the Trump administration was illegally sending people held in the US on civil immigration violations to Guantanamo Bay and the detention center. There it comes as the ACLU is standing up to Donald Trump once again over the victims of Trump's cruelest first term policy, taking babies and children from their parents and detaining them in cages.
- [36:20]
A
Jacob, you've been reporting on the border for years now.
- [36:23]
C
I want to know if you've picked.
- [36:25]
B
Up any clues that were sounding like there's something, something out there called a tender age shelter. I mean, Chris just hit the nail on the head, Lawrence. Inside this building that we're standing in front of, 1100 kids have been separated from their parents. I was inside the building and there are babies sitting by themselves in a cage with other babies. Where are those babies going to go? Where are they going to put those babies when their parents are picked up and sent into a federal prison or, or a local jail and then deported and then they never come back? You want to know what happens next? The babies don't end up making it into a facility like this. The parents that would normally come with those babies don't show up to declare asylum. They decide to run from the border patrol instead. And the next chapter in the story is we're going to be seeing pictures of dead babies in the Arizona desert and in the south Texas brush. That's what happens when you put deterrence in place. And that's what's going to happen next time in this story. You're going to have babies dying coming into the United States because families are scared to seek asylum because they don't want those babies to end up in tender age shelters. That was in 2018. This is a case that is still going on today. Las has this report on what happened next. Seven years ago, the first Trump administration triggered global condemnation when news broke that it was forcibly separating children from their families at the U. S. Mexico border. The outcry led the administration to shutter the program, but thousands of families remained shattered. A class action lawsuit followed and the Biden administration later settled the case. In the settlement agreement, the federal government promised to repair some of the damage by reuniting the families in the United States and providing them with a path to asylum. Now, the second Trump administration is quietly abandoning that promise, putting thousands of once separated families at risk of being split up up a second time. At least four families have been deported already. That's according to the American Civil Liberties Union, which brought the original lawsuit, known as Ms. L V. Ice, on behalf of separated families. The ACLU filed a motion in federal court on Tuesday asking for the recently deported families to be returned to the United States, alleging that at least one of the deportations violated an explicit court order. That lawsuit details some of the horrific stories that these families have been through. One of the plaintiffs in the class action suit declared In June 2019, my husband crossed the US Mexico border with our son, who was 7 years old at the time. They were detained by US immigration officers and that same day the US government separated my son from his father. It was over a month before I was able to speak with my son on the phone. When we finally talked, he was crying and it broke my heart. He was only allowed to call me every two weeks and each call lasted just 10 minutes. He remained at the shelter until he was returned to Guatemala in November of 2019. My husband was detained for several months and then he was deported to Guatemala. Not knowing where my son was taken after he was separated from his father made me feel helpless and scared. It was one of the most difficult experiences of my life and I still remember the time with pain when my son returned to the US he was no longer the same child he had been before he left. He became fearful of people and would easily resort to violence. I know that he still struggles with the trauma of separation. He often talks about how he couldn't sleep in the shelter because he was afraid of the dark and he doesn't understand how he managed to survive this time. There was he starts crying every time he recalls what happened to him. In August 2023, I decided to migrate to the United States with my son and my two daughters. I was desperate because I feared for our security in Guatemala. When we arrived in the United States, we were detained by immigration officers and taken to a detention center where we spent about 11 days. We were released on September 1, 2023, and then traveled to Memphis, Tennessee to live with my brother and his family. We were a happy family living a safe and peaceful life in the United states for about one year and nine months until we were deported to Guatemala in June 2025. Joining us now is Lee Galernt, the deputy Director of the Immigrants Rights Project at the aclu. Lee, it's great to see you.
- [40:47]
C
Thanks, Jacob.
- [40:49]
B
Lee, that story is one of so many, and you know that better than, I believe, almost anyone other than the families themselves. What's going on right now with this case? I think many people think that the family separation case has been resolved and that the Biden administration reunited everyone. What's owed to these victims of the families who are part of what the federal judge said was one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country?
- [41:14]
C
Yeah. Well, Jacob, I really appreciate you continuing to focus on this story because I think you're right. Most people do think it's over and that the families have been all reunited. Everything's fine. It's not true. So to begin with, we still haven't found some of the families. So we believe that there are little children separated seven, eight years ago who are still not with their parents. So we're continuing to work on that. But many of the families have been reunited. And as you said, we negotiated a settlement with the Biden administration that they would at least be able to stay in the country, have basic housing, and allowed to apply for asylum under special procedures. The Trump administration has now come in and slowly but surely tried to blow up the settlement. We have gone back to court constantly, and the judge has found one breach after another of the settlement. Exactly 10 minutes ago, we filed another emergency motion. The reason is because dozens of these families are now being detained by the administration after all the abuse they suffered. We've asked the Trump administration, why are they being detained? We can't even get an answer. So we had to file the most basic of motions to say to the court, please order the government to at least tell us why they're being detained so we can assess the legality. And we also asked the court to tell the administration to stop trying to induce families to self deport who have been through this abuse. Now, you'd think the administration wouldn't be trying to do this, but they've never even acknowledged they had such a policy, much less the horrendous abus that you've written about and reported on constantly for all these years that these families were subjected to.
- [42:59]
B
It's incredible that it's still going on to this day and that you literally have filed this 10 minutes ago. For people to understand this, you have to listen to the stories of the families. And that's what the ACLU has held up over all these years. And I think that that's why Judge Sobral has said that your settlement was one of the most important, echoing your executive director in the 103 year history of the entire ACLU. Here's a little more from that woman's declaration that I was speaking to you about in your motion. She says this. My children are struggling to adjust to life back in Guatemala. We live in a Maya community where food and services are scarce. They were hesitant to return to school due to the poor conditions there. My children are very sad and sometimes unmotivated. They constantly ask me when we will return to the United States. Is that a common refrain you've heard from a lot of plaintiffs in this case, Lee? Because I hear that over and over again.
- [43:48]
C
Yeah. So, you know, as you know, Jacob, so many of these families have had tough lives to begin with, but then they suffered unbelievable trauma. Imagine losing your child for months, possibly years, and having to deal with that trauma. That trauma never goes away. And that yet trying, instead of trying to make things better for these families, the Trump administration is deporting them and trying to re separate them, doing everything they can to do that. And so they're just reliving this trauma. You know, we had hoped that the Trump administration would finally acknowledge what they had done and leave this alone, but that's not happened. And so we're back in court constantly.
- [44:28]
B
Legal earn. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your work on the separation case and what's happening down at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. That is tonight's last word.
- [44:40]
D
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