← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Democrats offer deal to GOP extending expiring Affordable Care Act subsidies
00:42:21
Tonight on The Last Word: Donald Trump is set to inherit President Biden’s strong economy. Also, Sen. Joni Ernst plans to meet with Pete Hegseth next week. Plus, House Oversight Committee Democrats prepare for a new Trump term. And states are Trump-proofing ahead of inauguration. Timothy Snyder, Rep. Madeleine Dean, Rep. Gerry Connolly, New York State Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins, and Heather Williams join Jonathan Capehart.
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- [00:00]
Jonathan Capehart
Can you believe the holidays are here? I know. This year went by so fast. I want to help the schools in my neighborhood by giving to Donors choose, because during this time of the year.
- [00:09]
Alex
It'S all about the kids.
- [00:11]
Professor Timothy Snyder
That's a great idea. Donors choose is the most trusted nonprofit connecting teachers and students to donors who believe in them.
- [00:17]
Jonathan Capehart
Now more than ever before, students across the country are eager for a season of learning, community and celebration.
- [00:24]
Professor Timothy Snyder
Visit donorschoose.org local and give today.
- [00:29]
Alex
Oh, my God. It's the coolest thing ever. Hey, guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? Well, check this out. It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic, famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere, nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. Seriously. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift.
- [01:01]
Jonathan Capehart
Now it's time for the Last Word with my friend Jonathan Capehart in for Laurence O'Donnell. Good evening, Mon ami. Good evening, Alex. You know, I went to Paris for the first time in like 30 years last October, and it acquitted itself well. Paris is on. It just. She always looks great. And even better this weekend now that Notre Dame is finally going to be unveiled. Absolutely. Absolutely, Alex. Have a great weekend. Have a great show. You have seen more happen in the last two weeks than you have in the last four years. That's what Donald Trump said last night. And because he isn't president, it's hard to imagine what he could be talking about. What we do know is that US employers added 227,000 new jobs and the unemployment rate is at A still low 4.2% under the Biden Harris administration. It's also a time when many Americans are participating in open enrollment for benefits like health care coverage. And millions are facing the devastating consequences of the upcoming Trump administration after the Congressional Budget Office estimated that 2.2 million people could lose their health care coverage should Affordable Care act subsidies expire. In a statement, President Biden said, quote, millions of Americans are benefiting from expanded premium tax credits that lower their premiums. If Congress takes that benefit away, premiums will spike and 3.8 million people will become uninsured. That's simply wrong. The American people don't deserve to see their health insurance premiums skyrocket. That's why I'll continue to call on Congress to continue the Affordable Care act tax credits and protect affordable health insurance for millions of Americans. End quote. Tonight, there's breaking news from the Washington Post that Democrats are working to get a deal to protect people's healthcare coverage for another year before the new Congress is sworn in. We'll see what Republicans do. So, to paraphrase Donald Trump, you have seen a lot happen in the last two weeks, just nothing Donald Trump can brag about. One thing that did happen, Matt Gaetz failed to become United States Attorney General. Only time will tell if more Trump nominees will go the way of Matt Gaetz. Will it be Tulsi Gabbard, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Or Pete Hegseth? What is happening is Trump's pick to lead the Pentagon. Pete Hegseth has been walking the halls of Congress and meeting with Republican senators in an effort to save his Defense Secretary nomination. The Trump nominated former Fox host is fighting to save his nomination amid allegations of sexual misconduct, financial mismanagement and alcohol abuse, all of which Pete Hegseth denies. While defending Pete Hegseth today in a social post, Donald Trump stopped short of asking Republican senators to confirm him. And in an exclusive interview with Kristen Welker set to air on Meet the Press this Sunday, Donald Trump said this.
- [04:19]
Donald Trump
It looks like Pete is doing well now. I mean, people were a little bit concerned. He's a young guy with a tremendous track record. Actually, he went to Princeton and went to Harvard. He was a good student at both. But he loves the military, and I think people are starting to see it. So we'll be working on his nomination along with a lot of others.
- [04:41]
Jonathan Capehart
Since you bring him up, do you still have confidence in Pete Hexith?
- [04:44]
Donald Trump
Yes, I do. I really do. He's a very smart guy. I've known him through Fox, but I've known him for a long time, and he's basically a military guy. I mean, every time I talk to him, all he wants to talk about is the military. He's a military guy.
- [04:57]
Jonathan Capehart
Have you gotten assurances from senators that he's going to be confirmed? Do you think he can make it? No.
- [05:02]
Donald Trump
I think you will. Yeah. I've had a lot of senators call me up saying he's fantastic.
- [05:09]
Jonathan Capehart
You don't drink yourself? No. You've talked about how devastating drinking can be.
- [05:16]
Madeleine Dean
No.
- [05:16]
Jonathan Capehart
How concerned are you that the person who you picked for this top job at the Defense Department, at least according to those who've worked with him, has struggled with drinking?
- [05:27]
Donald Trump
But I've spoken to people that know him very well, and they say he does not have a drinking problem.
- [05:33]
Jonathan Capehart
Yesterday it was reported that Pete Hegseth's name has been submitted for an FBI background check. And today Senator Joni Ernst, the key Republican voter on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said that she plans to meet with Pete Hegseth again. Quote, pete Hegseth and I will continue our constructive conversations as we move forward together in this process. At a minimum, we agree that he deserves the opportunity to lay out his vision for our warfighters at a fair hearing. Also in the last two weeks, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy joined the Trump dog and pony show at the Capitol to discuss the non existent Department of Government Efficiency. And that's all it was. The meeting to discuss hypothetical cuts to the federal government which those lawmakers would have to vote for. Or as NBC News reports, it was more of an airing of grievances. A source familiar with the private meeting in the afternoon told NBC News that the gathering turned into an open mic session featuring an airing of grievances from House members who want Elon and Vivek to solve all their problems. Good luck with that. But the point is, for all the flood the zone press Trump world is doing, whether it's Tom Homan and Stephen Miller blanketing Fox or the budget buddies on Capitol Hill, Trump has done nothing. Not one Trump budget cut, not one Trump deportation, not one Trump policy has happened because Donald Trump is not president. Trump has no power right now, but we'll see what he's able to do. Obviously he's not powerful enough to overcome Matt Gaetz's House Ethics Committee report. What else won't he be able to do? Let's wait and see. Joining us now, Timothy Snyder, professor of history at Yale University. He is the author of New York Times bestsellers on freedom and on tyranny. And his new substack article is titled Dictators for a Day. Professor Snyder, thank you for being here. This attention misdirection is intentional. Loads of coverage about Musk and Dodgy, but not so much about this. Let me read this. Musk being on earth as the sole donor to a Trump super pac, part of his almost quarter billion dollar buy to elect Trump. So professor, guide us. How do we keep our eye on the ball of what's really happening in the cyclone of Trump bluster and the Elon circus?
- [08:12]
Heather Williams
Yeah, I think the big picture has a couple of parts. One part is where is the money and who has the money? Musk financed this campaign. Musk spent more on it than all of Trump's small donors combined. And Musk has a clear vision. Musk's vision is one where the federal government breaks apart and the oligarchs get to pick up all the shiny pieces. Whether he can do that, I think is one of the things to watch. The other thing to watch is the appointments as a collective. So Tulsi Gabbard, Pete Hegseth as well as Cash Patel, these are people who are utterly unqualified, disqualified, anti qualified. Do we end up with people in charge of our national security and intelligence who not only don't know what they're doing, but who are exactly the people that our foreign enemies would like to have in charge? I think those are the two big stories that one can follow.
- [09:07]
Jonathan Capehart
Well, you mentioned her, and I'm going to ask about her. There are Trump allies with ties to Russia. Tulsi Gabbard, Trump's pick for National Director of National Intelligence was called a Russian agent on Russian state tv. Tucker Carlson returned to Russia to interview Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Professor, what message does this send to Ukraine?
- [09:31]
Heather Williams
Yeah, I mean, just take a step back with Tulsi Gabbard. If you're outside the United States, the only thing you know about her is that she has been an apologist for the Assad atrocities and the Putin atrocities for almost a decade. That is literally the only stature that she has, that she's someone who apologizes for wars and for atrocities, and that she's somebody who spreads regime disinformation from Syria and Russia. That's it. She has no other public profile. So the idea that she could be the one who is coordinating the American intelligence agencies naturally brings joy to the Russians. There are many other quotations along the lines of the ones that you showed. She's our girlfriend, she's our agent, she's our person. She's been publicly praised multiple times by the Russian press for spreading the Russian message about the war. Right. So what message does it send to Ukraine? I mean, Ukrainians are scrabbling to find some connection to Trump where they would be able to talk about the real world, where they would be able to get through this mess that you're talking about, this im, this confusion. And try to remind Mr. Trump that there's actually a real world with a real war, which at the very least, if he cares about nothing else, could end in him being humiliated if he doesn't have some kind of policy.
- [10:47]
Jonathan Capehart
You know, scandal ridden picks like Pete Hegseth understandably command attention. But doesn't it also perversely help normalize other Trump nominees to paraphrase the late great Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Have we defined unfitness down?
- [11:05]
Heather Williams
That is, I think that's a very astute observation because it takes so much time to say what is wrong. Heth. Right. So he's not just that he's a self confessed drunk and accused of being a rapist. It's also that he has zero qualifications for the job. That in all of his books all he has to say about national security has to do with the enemy within. That he calls for a holy war carried out by a purge military of Americans against Americans. That's a lot of stuff to keep track of. And the very fact that there are so many things wrong with somebody like him or so many things wrong with somebody like Tulsi Godbert, or so many things wrong with somebody like Cash Patel, who has zero qualifications, wants to use the FBI to attack other Americans. All, all of that means that conventional problems like just not being able to do the job or maybe being corrupt, that that kind of thing can just slide through.
- [11:52]
Jonathan Capehart
Professor, let's talk about the wild events this week in South Korea where the President declared martial law after claiming the opposition held national assembly was working with North Korean enemies. There were massive protests and near unanimous opposition from both parties. And you write, but South Korean President Yoon failed and very badly. His dictatorship for a day lasted only about six hours. What can Americans learn from his less than a day dictatorship? What lessons can we learn?
- [12:22]
Heather Williams
Yeah, I love that question because like, we think we're all alone with these problems, but we're not. Other people have problems too. We have the problem that our president elect has been talking for years about invoking the Insurrection act, which is the closest thing we have in the United States to martial law. The Insurrection act would theoretically allow the President to deploy the military for his own purposes and principle to enforce the law, but it's very vaguely worded. So our President has been talking about doing the thing which the South Korean president did, but when he does it, it's going to be similar. It's going to be a very flimsy pretext, it's going to be illegal. And we can do what the South Koreans did. We can say, wait a minute, this is a joke. We're going to make this fail. If we're soldiers, we're not going to obey. If we're civilians, we're going to protest. If we're in Congress, we're going to vote to revoke the Insurrection Act. We can talk about the Insurrection act, we can talk about what we're going to do if he tries invoke it. And we can look at South Korea as an example and thereby make that whole scenario, which is a terrible scenario, much less likely.
- [13:22]
Jonathan Capehart
But, Professor, I mean, didn't we see a version of this with January 6th and only seven Republican senators voted to convict Trump, not enough to actually convict him?
- [13:34]
Heather Williams
No, I'm completely with you. And I'm not saying that we have to wait for Republicans and God forbid that if he invokes the Insurrection act, we should say, oh, let's wait for the Supreme Court. What I'm saying is that the people who care the most, the people in the opposition party, and this is what happened in South Korea, have to get out front, call for protests, stand in front of Congress themselves and just get across as many of us as possible. The basic reality that most Americans actually don't want a military dictatorship and do it quickly, treat it as something which is out of bounds, illegitimate, impossible, un American, because he can't make it happen just by snapping his fingers. The rest of us have to go along. And if we talk about it and think about it and keep it in our conversations ahead of time, we make it much less likely that it's actually going to happen.
- [14:21]
Jonathan Capehart
You also warned that we should be ready for a Trump contagion effect, you write. Indeed. It seems likely to me that the very presence of Trump on the international scene will make such attempts more likely among America's democratic allies such as South Korea. And generally, it seems counterintuitively that Trump thrives in order. Trump is a burn it down guy. Does that play if slash when everything's on fire?
- [14:50]
Heather Williams
That's a great question, I think, and I think the answer is no. Right. So like Trump. Like Trump is a hustler. He's a guy who exists on the edge of the law, but fundamentally, his kind of hustle only works if the law continues to exist. Right. He's gotten himself into a position where he's beyond the law. But what if there is no law? What if there are total disorder internationally? What is he going to do? He has no sense of how to use American power. He's a vegetarian, as the Russians like to say about him. He has no notion how to be powerful abroad. And what does he do if everything falls apart? What if he does. What does he do if the oligarchs get the upper hand in his cabinet, as they very well might? What does he do if the federal government stops working? He could get himself into a really difficult position because he's always been like, he's always acted like the tough guy on the edge of things. But what if the things that he's on the edge of start to fall apart? I agree with you. He's. I think he's playing with fire, even from his own perspective at this point.
- [15:50]
Jonathan Capehart
You know, professor, listening to you, it just makes me wonder, isn't that what happened with COVID something we never saw before? Things completely upended and he completely botched. Botched the response.
- [16:04]
Heather Williams
Yeah. Well, you can't. You can only count on him to tell a story about things. That's what he's good at. That's his talent. And there are things like viruses that don't go away just because you tell stories about them. And there are things like the war in Ukraine, which don't go away just because you tell stories about them. His story is he can show up, snap his fingers, and make the war go away in a day, and he can't. He doesn't have that pull with Putin. He doesn't have that pull with Zelensky. Those people are fighting those wars for their own reasons. And he's going to have to make a tough decision about how he's going to deploy American power. And tough decisions, honestly, are not his thing. And power in that sense is also not his thing. Posing is his thing. And he's a poser now who's going to be walking into a 2025 where a lot of things are going to get out of his control, in my.
- [16:48]
Jonathan Capehart
View, very quickly, posing in the same way he did on the Apprentice. Professor. Finally, an op ed in the British Financial Times highlights one challenge for Democrats in the coming Trump corruption onslaught. Quoting here without quite acknowledging it, American politics has arrived at an understanding. One side can ignore the rules of the game to the point of challenging election outcomes without proof of fraud, and the other can't, or at least doesn't. Until a month ago, the Democrats could tell themselves that Republican rule breaking incurs swift punishment from voters. 2018, 2020 and 2022 were proofs. All that changed in November. A man who tried to overturn a presidential election won the very next one. What reward is there for observing protocol? Then? What does honor become a mugs game, professor, what do you say to that?
- [17:42]
Heather Williams
Yeah, that's a. I mean, that's a penetrating argument. But what I would say to it would be. What I would make is a different critique of the American left. I would say that our problem was that we didn't enforce the rules ourselves. We passed the buck. So he's impeached Therefore, he has to be prosecuted. He can't be prosecuted because later he was going to be impeached. Four years passed without the person who broke all of these laws and who attempted this coup and tried to overturn our constitutional system without anything happening to him. And I realize there's a technical thing there and some bad luck in the other place, but there was a chance to be the people who enforced the rules on this guy and we didn't do it. And that's given him some of his sheen, because his believers believe that, that he is special, that he's beyond the law, that the law can't touch him. Unfortunately, his believers do believe that the law applies to the rest of us. So I agree there's a danger that everyone's gonna stop believing in the rules, but I don't think the conclusion should be that that's what we should do.
- [18:37]
Jonathan Capehart
Professor Timothy Snyder, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word. And coming up, there is one question looming large over Capitol Hill. Does Pete Heckseth have the votes to pass confirmation? And he's not the only Trump pick for key positions that might not have the votes. House Judiciary Committee member Madeleine Dean joins us next.
- [19:04]
Professor Timothy Snyder
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- [19:35]
Andrea Stewart-Cousins
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- [20:03]
Alex
Oh my God. It's the coolest thing ever. Hey, guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? Well, check this out. It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish Pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. Seriously. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift.
- [20:38]
Jonathan Capehart
Tonight, the big question on Capitol Hill is does Pete Hegseth have the votes to be confirmed as the next Secretary of Defense? If four Republican senators vote against Hegseth, his nomination fails. And if you ask any Democrat in Congress, he's both unqualified and a non starter. Senator Elizabeth Warner, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said this earlier.
- [21:03]
Jerry Connolly
Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump's nominee for Secretary of Defense, thinks that women in the military should not serve in combat. He's accused of raping a woman and buying her silence with an NDA. He went to work events drunk and preyed on his female employees. He's mismanaged a veteran's nonprofit so far into debt they nearly went bankrupt. We cannot have a man like Pete Hegseth in charge of our national security. Nope.
- [21:32]
Jonathan Capehart
We should mention that Hegseth was never charged with sexual assault. He claims that encounter was consensual and that the other unrelated allegations are false. But that won't stop Senator Warren, excuse me, Senator Warren, from being able to ask Hexeth all about these allegations on national television should he last long enough to make it to a confirmation hearing. But he's not the only controversial Trump pick that may be in jeopardy. NBC News reports nearly 100 former national security officials signed a letter criticizing President Elect Donald Trump's decision to nominate former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence and called for closed door Senate hearings to review any government information about her. Gabbard has previously faced criticism for sympathetic comments about US Adversaries. Earlier this week, right here on the Last Word, Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse raised another reason why Gabbard's nomination is so concerning. The danger for Gabbard is if the Senate Intelligence Committee determines that our most significant allies and intelligence partners, particularly the countries referred to as the five eyes, signal to the Intelligence Committee that they are not going to be willing to share intelligence in the same way that they have been because they see her as compromised and potentially somebody who would give up their sources, their methods, their secrets, to Putin, to Assad, to somebody with a big checkbook. Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Madeleine Dean of Pennsylvania. She is a member of the House Judiciary and House Foreign Affairs Committees. Congresswoman Dean, great to see you. Earlier tonight, Senator Joni Ernst, who has been on the fence about Hegseth, tweeted this. Pete Hegseth and I will continue our constructive conversations as we move forward together in this process. We plan to meet again next week. At a minimum, we agree that he deserves the opportunity to lay out his vision for our warfighters at a fair hearing. Congresswoman, what's your reaction to that? It sounds like she wants to give him a chance.
- [23:53]
Jerry Connolly
I'm a believer in due process. Jonathan, it is very good to be with you, but I really count on the Senate to do their job because what is going to matter here in the vetting of the folks that you've just talked about, whether it is Hegseth or Gabbard, is truth. Their ability to tell the truth, their character matters in these extraordinary positions that have to do with our national security and the most important secrets and non secrets, the things that we do as a leading country, a leading democracy in the world, but also competence. And so I hope they take this process very, very seriously. I hope they take a look at the allegations. I hope they take a look also at the facts. What do we actually know about these folks in terms of their. Let's start with competence, their ability to run these extraordinarily large, complex institutions, bureaucracies that are so important to our national security. We have not seen evidence that Mr. Hegseth or Ms. Gabbard have the ability, the competence to do it. But then are there things that are completely disqualifying? Can you imagine that these folks would come forward without FBI background checks? I remember my son when I wasn't elected to anything, got an internship at the White House under the Obama administration. He had an FBI background check. Our neighbors were questioned about him. We were questioned. Can you imagine that folks at the top of these agencies would somehow skip FBI background checks? Most importantly, we want, for example, our military to be sure they have the confidence in that the person who will lead them. And someone who says a women are not qualified to serve in combat as they are doing it right this minute. How do you have confidence in that kind of a person, someone who has had so many allegations against him? And I'm a believer, allegations are allegations. You're innocent until proven guilty. But man, oh man, when your own mother writes you that kind of very, very sad letter, the senators must do their job and make sure that people who are lacking truth, character and competence are not leading our most important agencies.
- [26:23]
Jonathan Capehart
Let me play some of what Texas Congressman Chip Roy had to say earlier today in defense of Hegseth Watch this.
- [26:30]
Heather Williams
We should all defend him. You know, look, we've all had some indiscretions in our past and things like that. Every human has. But good grief, Pete Exeth, he's got the support of so many people, and he represents somebody who would take on the defense establishment.
- [26:48]
Jonathan Capehart
I mean, we've all had indiscretions. This is how House Republicans are defending a nominee accused of sexual assault. What does that tell you about the fight ahead when it comes to dealing with MAGA Republicans under Trump?
- [27:02]
Jerry Connolly
Well, I'm glad Mr. Roy is not in the Senate. I'll tell you that. I'm glad he's not somebody who's reviewing this nomination. Yes, we all have blemishes in our background, but man, oh, man, don't put me up for something I'm not capable of doing. And make sure you look at the blemishes, the accusations, the accusations of sexual assault. Come on, we're talking about the military here. We're talking about a problem that we have in our military of sexual assault that has gone unaddressed, where people have been so victimized in their own careers, so damaged and jeopardized. So I'm glad Mr. Roy, who is my colleague, is not sitting in the Senate. Man, oh, man. Please, God, don't we want people in this next administration to be people of character, integrity, and competence? We're not surprised, I'm not surprised that President Elect Trump has made these kinds of choices. He's a character of chaos. He only wants to burn these places down. And birds of a feather flock together. Those who lack character seek people who lack character because they're very comfortable in those places. So I'm not worried about Chip Roy's characterization.
- [28:19]
Jonathan Capehart
And with that, we're gonna have to leave it there. Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, thank you very much for coming to the last for best year. Coming up, the House Oversight Committee will be working overtime to keep up with all the chaos that a second Trump administration promises to bring. Beginning with the cast of characters Donald Trump wishes to appoint to top government positions. Our next guest is seeking to become the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee. Congressman Jerry Connolly joins us next.
- [28:53]
Andrea Stewart-Cousins
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- [29:24]
Professor Timothy Snyder
This AI moment hits different it's the first technology designed not just to serve us, but to be us. I'm Baratunde Thurston and on my new video podcast Life With Machines, I'm going to talk to all kinds of folks, the people hitting the gas pedal on this transition and those trying to pump the brakes. Watch and listen to Life with Machines powered by Lenovo in partnership with intel. Intel Core Ultra 7 processor powering Intel V Pro Lenovo Lenovo hey guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. They ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls, and even Ina Garten's famous cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your Life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code gift.
- [30:31]
Jonathan Capehart
The first Trump administration had Democrats on the House Oversight Committee very busy working to shine a light on its plethora of corruption, malfeasance and incompetence. And with the quote, best people, Donald Trump is selecting for key positions in a second Trump administration. Things this time around promise to be no different. The current top Democrat, what's called the ranking member on the Oversight Committee, is Congressman Jamie Raskin. In the next Congress, Raskin has plans to become the Judiciary Committee's ranking member, leaving that key job open on the House Oversight Committee. Today, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez announced her intention to seek the position of Oversight Committee ranking member in a letter to her Democratic colleagues. Our next guest, Congressman Jerry Connolly, is also seeking the position. In his own letter to his Democratic colleagues sent earlier this week, Congressman Connolly said, I have 16 years of experience serving on this committee. And in the majority, in the majority and in the minority, we must expose and dismantle bad faith Republican efforts to promote conspiracy theories, intimidate witnesses, and undermine Democratic processes. The Committee on Oversight and Accountability is a beat I know well. And right now we need an expert who can parry the worst Republican attacks on our institutions and deliver reform where it is necessary and needed. And joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jerry Connolly of Virginia, current member of the House Oversight Committee, who is vying to be its next ranking member. Congressman Connolly, thank you for being here. No matter who is leading the, no matter who is leading the Democrats on the committee, you're all going to have your work cut out for you. How can you effectively counter this corruption while being in the minority?
- [32:22]
Madeleine Dean
Well, you know, we were in the minority when Darrel Issa was chairman of the committee, and I think we really comported ourselves well. But it's a combination of discipline, messaging, discipline, picking issues that are going to really stand out and making sure that we expose the facts that are missing all too often on the Republican side of the aisle. We were able to really have great success when Elijah Cummings was chairman and ranking member. I served as vice ranking member in those years. And I think testimonial to that was when Darrell ISS stepped down as chairman. He actually cited me as his chief foil for all those years in the committee. So we know how to do this, but we're gonna make sure our message is coherent and that we are disciplined.
- [33:11]
Jonathan Capehart
The New York Times reports, and I'm quoting. As the inauguration approaches, Eric Trump, Mr. Trump's second son and Trump family company's de facto leader, is expected to forego deals directly with foreign governments. But he is not planning to revive the promise the company made eight years ago to swear off all other foreign deals while his father occupies the White House. How big a deal is this?
- [33:36]
Madeleine Dean
I think it's a very big deal. In fact, when Trump got elected the first time in 2016, Elijah Cummings and I had the equivalent of a hearing on the potential conflicts of interest of then president elect Trump in late 2016. And he has far flung enterprises and investments all over the world. And it is a recipe for corruption. It is certainly a recipe for ethical conflict of interest that no president ought to be even entertaining. And he and his family are walking conflicts of interest waiting to be discovered.
- [34:13]
Jonathan Capehart
On another issue. NBC News reports billionaire Elon Musk poured more than $20 million into a mysterious super PAC at the end of the 2024 campaign, part of more than $250 million he spent overall to boost President elect Donald Trump. New campaign finance reports show Elon Musk's companies have federal contracts and would definitely want more from a Trump presidency. How worried are you about Musk's relationship with Trump?
- [34:45]
Madeleine Dean
I'm very worried. Elon Musk is the original American oligarch and he's going to be joined by at least four or five other billionaires who are essentially viewing government as an opportunity to feather their ownness, to magnify their investment portfolio and to make a profit. What happened to the champion of the working class? Donald Trump has already, in the appointments he's making, betrayed the very people who voted for him in the Rust Belt and throughout the industrial Midwest. I think Elon Musk is a self dealer. I think he is a troubled individual and I think he ought to have no role to play in the government. And the fact that he was willing to spend a quarter of a billion dollars to get one individual elected president and now wants to serve in dismantling government agencies, cutting back on federal spending, federal employees, he's serving his own interests and that needs to be carefully monitored. And I think frankly, he has no business serving in any administration.
- [35:54]
Jonathan Capehart
Congressman Jerry Connolly of the great Commonwealth of Virginia, thank you very much for coming to the last.
- [36:00]
Madeleine Dean
Thank you for having me.
- [36:02]
Jonathan Capehart
And coming up, Democrat led states successfully challenged policies during the first Trump administration. Now, state power in these blue states will be more important than ever in a second Trump presidency. That's next. The votes continue to be counted and Donald Trump's popular vote percentage now stands at 49.7%, which means 50.3% of voters in this election voted against Trump. But ahead of Trump's inauguration, the new blue wall will be the firewall that blue states can provide, starting with state power. In Pennsylvania, represented by Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro, Democrats remarkably held onto their one seat state House majority, limiting the power of the Republican controlled state Senate. In North Carolina, the Republican supermajority in North Carolina was broken. What does that mean? Well, it has a big impact for incoming Democratic Gov. Josh Stein, who won in a landslide. North Carolina Republicans will no longer have the 2/3 votes to override a Democratic governor's veto as they did during the tenure of popular Democratic Governor Roy Cooper. And North Carolina's Republican supermajority may have cost Democrats control of the united US House when it passed a new gerrymandered redistricting map that redrew three competitive congressional districts represented by Democrats to bright red ones. Those three seats would have put the U.S. house seat count at 218 to Republicans 217 and made Hakeem Jeffries Speaker. And the campaign is not over. In 30 days, voters in Virginia will go to the polls in a special election to decide control of the state house and state Senate. Democrats currently have a 21 to 19 majority in the Senate. Democratic control of the state legislature is a major check on Virginia's Trump backing Republican Governor Glenn Youngkin. But the Trump backing Republican Lieutenant governor would become the tiebreaker for Republicans if Democrats lose the Special elections are January 7th. Joining us now, Democratic New York State Senate Majority Leader Leader Andrea Stewart Cousins. She is a Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee chair, and Heather Williams, the president of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee. Thank you both very much for coming to the last word. Heather Williams, the campaign is still on. People will be voting on control of the Virginia House and Senate in 30 days. What are the issues in those special elections, and how have campaign issues changed with Trump's win?
- [38:54]
Chip Roy
It's such a great question, and you are absolutely right. We always have elections. And as you said, the first one's coming up here in Virginia on January 7th. You know, the great thing about this ballot level and the work that we do is our candidates are really listening to the voters. So this race is still shaping up. We know that our candidates will be out there in their communities, knocking on the doors, having those real conversations with voters. We know that that was an incredible tool in this last election. And in November, it bared the results that were much better at this ballot level than elsewhere on the ticket. And we're going to carry those tactics into these special elections and make sure that these candidates are listening to their voters and responding. In course.
- [39:38]
Jonathan Capehart
Leader Stuart Cousins, how are New York Democrats Preparing for Trump 2.0? New York has a trifecta of Democratic state power, and a solid majority of New York state voters did not want Trump and are worried about what Trump could do, could do there.
- [39:54]
J
Thanks, Jonathan, and so good to be with you. I think that what people have to remember is that our majority was born of Trump 1.0. In 2016. We had been out of power in the Senate Democrats for over 10 years. And once he won in 2016, people looked at the state and said, what can we do in order to make sure that his power is blunted? And they elected a Democratic Senate majority. We have held that majority down for the past five years. And you know what we've done? We've done things in terms of pocketbook issues, making sure that we had a property tax cap while we fully funded education, while we built our economy, while we did progressive things, whether it was voting rights or gun safety measures or protecting our LGBTQ+ community. We continue to do everything we can to make sure New York is affordable while we are progressive. That's what we did with 1.0. That's what we'll build on with 2.0.
- [41:02]
Jonathan Capehart
And I hear what you're saying, Leader Stuart Cousins. But in New York in 2024, Vice President Harris won 56% of the vote to Trump's 44%. That's an improvement from Trump's 38% in New York in both 2016 and 2020. How are New York Democrats processing the election results and what do you think the message from New York voters is?
- [41:25]
J
Well, I think we're processing. Everybody's still trying to analyze the data. The reality is that Trump did better than he did, but we're looking at why the vice president, frankly, had 900,000 votes less than President Biden did. So we've got to continue to do exactly what Heather was saying, what we all know we have to do, continue to get out, make sure we're talking to our voters, making sure that people understand that the state legislature is going to be more important than ever because we grab Project 2025 looming. They are talking about bringing things to the state. What happens on state level will matter and has mattered. It matters in New York. It matters in the trifectas that we've had. And by the way, since 2016 now, I mean, back then it was 29 legislatures that were Democratically controlled. Now there are 39. So we continue to build on the progress so the Democrats will protect our electorate, but we will continue to talk to them, motivate them and make them understand that we, we can make the difference on a state level what happens on a national level.
- [42:38]
Jonathan Capehart
And Heather Williams, what's ahead in 2025 and 2026? How do you convince Democrats that tuning out is not the answer?
- [42:48]
Chip Roy
Well, I think we do exactly what Leader Stuart Cousins said, right? We show up for their constituents. They show up for the voters. They deliver on the issues that voters are talking about. It is pocket book issues. It is ensuring that strong access to reproductive healthcare and equal access and fair access to education that our leaders in these state houses are addressing all of those things and more. And the way that they find that out is by talking to them. And the good news is, is that out of this election we have a clear path for what has what's to come in 2026. We know that we're going to be fighting in Minnesota and in Wisconsin and in Pennsylvania and in Michigan. And we're ready.
- [43:35]
Jonathan Capehart
Heather Williams, New York State Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart Cousins, thank you both very much for coming to the LAST Word. And tonight's Last Word is next. Tomorrow night, MSNBC Films presents Separated, an NBC News Studios production from Oscar winning filmmaker Errol Morris. Based on the best selling book by our very own Jacob Soboroff, the documentary examines the first Trump administration's family separation policy and ongoing years long fight to reunite children with their families. Here's a short clip from Separated, which airs at 9pm Eastern tomorrow. When did you become aware of separations? Our field staff started to notice very young kids, tender age, anyone below five. That's kind of unusual, right? Because most often when you have a kid that young, they're traveling with a parent. Jim Delacruz was the supervisor of all the federal field staff. He had his team keep a spreadsheet. It was growing, growing, growing, growing with.
- [44:52]
Professor Timothy Snyder
The number of kids. One of the issues I raised to Scott Lloyd as a concern is we'd run out of beds for babies. We were seeing so many babies, but the babies can't tell you they were separated. We were very concerned that some children's separations would be permanent because the parents would be removed from the United States through deportation. So the families had made the journey together, but now the children would remain in the United States while the parents were returned to home country.
- [45:45]
Jonathan Capehart
These are state created orphans.
- [45:51]
Professor Timothy Snyder
These are families separated by action of the federal government as a tool of immigration policy.
- [45:59]
Jonathan Capehart
And I'll be back tomorrow for the Saturday show at 6pm Eastern where I'll talk with Jacob Soboroff about the film Separated. And I'll talk with Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina, a longtime ally and confidant of President Biden, about the potential for preemptive pardons of Donald Trump's critics like Liz Cheney and Anthony Fauci. That's tomorrow at 6:00pm Eastern right here on MSNBC. That is tonight's Last words.
- [46:24]
Andrea Stewart-Cousins
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