Democrats say Speaker Johnson delaying Grijalva swearing-in over Epstein files

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode: Democrats say Speaker Johnson delaying Grijalva swearing-in over Epstein files
Date: October 16, 2025
Host (Tonight): Ali Velshi (substituting for Lawrence O’Donnell)

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Episode Overview

Tonight’s episode explores the ongoing government shutdown, the Republican Party’s messaging about pro-democracy protests (“No Kings” rallies), Speaker Mike Johnson's unprecedented refusal to seat Democrat Adelita Grijalva in Congress, and the dire economic consequences for Americans, focusing especially on spiking health care costs and the evolving Hispanic vote in Texas. The overarching theme is the fragility and importance of democratic norms and institutions, with a strong emphasis on grassroots activism and resistance to authoritarian trends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “No Kings” Pro-Democracy Rallies and GOP Messaging

• Republican Rhetoric:
  Republican leadership, including Speaker Mike Johnson and Steve Scalise, have labeled the upcoming “No Kings” protest as a “Hate America rally,” associating it with Antifa, Marxists, and pro-Hamas supporters [02:24 – 03:23].
• Reality of Protests:
  Ali Velshi notes that nearly 5 million Americans participated in the last No Kings rallies, far surpassing turnout at Trump-linked events, debunking GOP portrayals [04:02].
• Democratic Response:
  Democrats, led by Hakeem Jeffries, argue the shutdown stems not from protest organizers but from GOP refusal to negotiate on crucial items like Affordable Care Act tax credits [03:23].
• Professor Timothy Snyder’s Analysis:
  Snyder frames the Republican strategy as classic authoritarianism—trying to cast mainstream, peaceful protestors as dangerous outsiders and suppress free speech. He emphasizes the hard, grassroots labor behind organizing such protests, calling it “the essence of democracy and freedom” [06:17 – 07:39].
• Inclusivity of the Movement:
  Both Velshi and Snyder stress that the “No Kings” movement is broader than the Democratic Party, including independents and people across the spectrum who care about democracy [09:48 – 10:29].
  Quote:
  “No Kings is saying yes to a Republic, it's saying yes to democracy. It's saying yes to freedom. And when we have all those things, then we can decide amongst ourselves about particular policy questions. But what comes first is up or down on our democracy.” – Timothy Snyder [09:59 – 10:29]

2. Grassroots Organizing: Behind the Scenes

• Dan Casson’s Activism:
  Dan Casson, a former engineer and current organizer in Wisconsin, describes the relentless work of building coalitions and supporting pro-democracy initiatives, drawing from prior experience in Central America and current local fights against authoritarian practices [12:38 – 14:32].
• Connecting Local and National Movements:
  The episode draws a direct line from small, local organizing (ten people on a bridge) to nationwide mass mobilizations—arguing that scale is achieved through genuine grassroots effort, not through conspiratorial coordination as suggested by GOP figures [15:44 – 16:46]. Quote:
  “No, Kings is a broad organizing umbrella of hundreds of different civil society groups all around the country who are cooperating with one another to make these things happen.” – Timothy Snyder [15:44 – 16:46]

3. Speaker Mike Johnson's Delay of Adelita Grijalva’s Swearing-In

• A New Tactic of Undermining Democracy:
  For three weeks, Arizona’s 7th district has gone unrepresented because Speaker Johnson refuses to swear in Democratic winner Adelita Grijalva [18:04]. The rationale—wanting “pomp and circumstance”—is dismissed as a cover for pure political obstruction.
• Underlying Reason:
  Democrats assert that seating Grijalva would give them the necessary 218 votes to force the release of the so-called Epstein files—records thought to be damaging to Trump. Thus, Johnson is blocking her to protect the GOP [18:51].
• Legal and Political Response:
  Arizona’s Attorney General threatens legal action. The state’s Secretary of State, Adrian Fontes, explains that there is no valid justification for the delay; all certification requirements are fulfilled [19:53 – 21:42]. Quote:
  "Mike Johnson is an abject coward. ... He's afraid of Adelita Grijalva. He's afraid of what she represents." – Adrian Fontes [22:17]
• Broader Concern:
  Velshi and Fontes note that this kind of “cheating” corrodes faith in U.S. democracy and further alienates citizens from their government [23:29 – 24:43].

4. The Economic Impact of GOP Policies and the Shutdown

• Worsening Economic Indicators:
  Trump’s shutdown enters its third week, causing significant stress for federal workers and the broader economy—estimated at $15 billion per day in losses [26:06]. Rising inflation and tariffs multiply consumer hardship, especially as the holiday season approaches [27:13].
• Health Care Crisis:
  With no deal on ACA tax credits, ACA premiums are set to skyrocket. Retirees in Idaho, for example, will see monthly premiums jump from ~$51 to $2,232—a catastrophic increase that effectively pushes millions off health insurance [26:53 – 32:00].
  Marjorie Taylor Greene, typically a strong Trump ally, breaks ranks, blasting her party for the lack of action:
  Quote:
  “It is absolutely shameful, disgusting and traitorous that our laws and policies screw the American people so much that the government is shut down right now fighting over basic issues like this.” – Marjorie Taylor Greene [28:26]
• Congressional and Democratic Responses:
  Congressman Brendan Boyle, ranking member of the Budget Committee, explains that the average premium hike in Pennsylvania will be 102%, highlighting the nonpartisan CBO’s estimate that 15 million+ Americans will lose coverage under current GOP policies [32:38].
  He lashes out at Trump’s “random” tariff policy as well, describing it as both inflationary and targeted for political, not economic, reasons [34:57]. Quote:
  “When you've lost Marjorie Taylor Greene, then you're probably losing Republicans… Those increases, those health care losses, literally begin today. That's why Democrats are fighting to prevent this from happening.” – Rep. Brendan Boyle [30:53 – 32:00]

5. The Future of the Hispanic Vote in Texas

• Recent Rightward Shift:
  Trump won a historically high 45% of the Hispanic vote in 2024, including major gains in the heavily Hispanic Rio Grande Valley—long considered a Democratic stronghold [37:39].
• Democratic Response and New Leadership:
  Texas State Rep. Gina Hinojosa launches a campaign for governor, positioning herself as an advocate for public education and an anti-corruption crusader against Governor Abbott. She stresses shared kitchen table concerns—housing, groceries, and especially health care—as the way to regain Hispanic trust [41:18 – 43:30].
• Immigration and Community Concerns:
  Even with conservative shifts, brutality at the border and the detention of long-standing community members is generating fear and anxiety among Valley residents, potentially reshaping the debate [44:05].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Republican Attacks Against Protests:
  “It's stunning how much these guys hate free speech.” – Sen. Chris Murphy (paraphrased by Velshi) [05:44]
• On Messaging Discipline:
  "No Kings. Pretty good, because you really don't want to be on the wrong side of that particular issue. Except, Tim, Donald Trump's acting like a king. Right.” – Ali Velshi [09:17]
• On Organizing Democracy:
  “The kind of work that somebody sitting in a safe district in Louisiana and taking money from donors doesn't understand.” – Timothy Snyder [07:14]
• On the Grijalva Swearing-In Blockade:
  "Do you need the pomp and circumstance?" - C (Ali Velshi) [18:04]
  "I do not." - A (Adelita Grijalva) [18:05]
• On Health Care Premium Spikes:
  “Retired Idaho residents...currently pay $51 a month for their ACA plan. Late last month, they got a notice that their monthly premium would increase to $2,232 next year without the subsidies.” [26:53]
• On Latino Community Concerns:
  “It is important...that we treat everyone with dignity, but that the people who have been here, have roots in our community, are treated differently than people who just arrived. … If they are hardworking, law-abiding, there should be a path towards citizenship.” – Gina Hinojosa [44:05]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• GOP Labeling “No Kings” as “Hate America” Rallies: [02:24 – 03:36]
• Professor Tim Snyder on Authoritarian Messaging & Organizing: [06:17 – 11:59]
• Dan Casson, Indivisible/No Kings Mirroring Civic Labor: [12:38 – 14:32]
• Speaker Johnson Denies Grijalva Her Seat – Deep Dive: [18:04 – 24:43]
• Health Care Crisis, GoFundMe for Essentials: [26:06 – 34:41]
• Texas Latino Vote Shift & Rep. Hinojosa’s Campaign: [37:39 – 44:45]

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Tone and Style

The tone throughout is urgent, direct, and at times indignant—reflecting distress over threats to democratic norms and the everyday financial pain experienced by Americans. Humor surfaces in the form of wry asides (e.g., about GOP messaging “greatest hits” or running Marjorie Taylor Greene clips “with caution”), while guests remain earnest, passionate, and deeply invested in defending democracy and people’s rights.

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Conclusion

Tonight's episode underscores the escalating stakes in American democracy: from mass mobilizations against authoritarian tactics, to the fight for basic representation in Congress, and the economic pain being felt by millions due to political brinkmanship. It highlights the importance and difficulty of organizing, the impact of political strategy on ordinary lives, and the evolving coalition needed to confront anti-democratic forces head-on.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

That does it for me tonight. The Last Word starts right now with Ali Velshi, who's in for Lawrence.

[C]

Hey, Ali, great question. And a great answer occurs to me. I was just thinking through as I was listening to Greg Cassar. I guess my litmus test today is democracy, right? We don't worry about the specifics of healthcare and minimum wage and all those kinds of things. Once we all agree that we're playing within the lines and the box of democracy, that seems to be the fight. You can be left, right, progressive, moderate, as long as you're in that. In that sandbox.

[A]

Yeah. I think his point is a really interesting one. And it's a version of Mamdani. Even you don't have to agree on 100% of things. The question is, do you have a governing force who's going to defend the fundamentals of what we believe in? And it's one of the interesting and important debates that's happening in the party right now.

[C]

And in some cases, we've got a few weeks for a lot of people to come to terms with that. Jen, great to see you. It was great to see you this weekend, by the way, in person.

[D]

You too.

[C]

Excellent show. I'll see you tomorrow night.

[A]

See you tomorrow night.

[C]

All right. How worried are the Republicans this week? They're pretty worried. Not just because the government shutdown is now in its third week, not just because of the public Outcry from military families and air traffic controllers and others who are worried about not being able to pay their bills. But because on Saturday, the no Kings protests are back, I encourage you to watch.

[D]

We call it the Hate America rally that'll happen Saturday.

[C]

Let's see who shows up for that. I bet you see pro Hamas supporters.

[D]

I bet you see antifa types. I bet you see the Marxist in full display.

[C]

We shouldn't have to wait until the Hate America rally this weekend or whatever it is that's driving Chuck Schumer to keep this going on, continue this shutdown. For what? For a Hate America rally that's taking place in the mall on Saturday. Maria. Okay, so first, the no Kings protest that's taking place this Saturday was announced nearly a month before the Republican. The Republican controlled House and the who's controlling the Senate. The Republican controlled Senate let the government funding run out. These rallies aren't what's driving Democrats to, quote, keep this going on. As Steve Scalise puts it, Republicans are refusing to negotiate with Democrats to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits that help millions of people afford their health insurance. More on that a little bit later. Here's House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries.

[B]

Today it's time to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits. It's time to prevent tens of millions of American from experiencing dramatically increased health care premiums. It's time to make sure that every single American can afford to go see a doctor when they need one. It's time to reopen the government and stand by our hardworking, patriotic federal workers. And it's time to do all of that right now.

[C]

No further delay.

[B]

House Republicans need to get back to work.

[C]

And as to Speaker Johnson's comments about Saturday, let's see who shows up for that. Well, keep this in mind. At the last no Kings protest, nearly 5 million Americans showed up around the country, which was a stark and embarrassing split screen with the half baked, sparsely attended military parade on Trump's birthday. I was there for that. And that's what Republicans or Trump and his Republican allies really hate. Trump is trying to use this shutdown to seize power by bypassing Congress, like freezing billions of dollars in federal grants for infrastruct infrastructure projects that primarily target Democratic led cities and districts and demanding thousands of federal employees be fired. But Trump was blocked this afternoon by a federal judge from doing that. Trump has deployed hundreds of National Guard troops to cities run by Democrats, cities like Chicago. But those 500 National Guard troops sent by Trump are now sitting idle in an army facility after a judge blocked their deployment. Trump desperately wants people to believe he is a king, accountable to no one. He can do whatever he wants, Constitution and laws be damned. And on Saturday, once again, millions of Americans are expected to take to the streets to shatter that illusion. Americans are doing this every day. This is what democracy looks like. This is what America looks like. Those are the people Mike Johnson, Steve Scalise, and Tom Emmer are calling the I Hate America crowd. They are America. In an interview with NBC News, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut said this in response to Republican messaging, quote, it's stunning how much these guys hate free speech. I frankly think we should have been talking more about their comments about the no Kings rallies. The best thing we can do is just make sure that the turnout is huge on the 18th. If those rallies are packed, that's a response in and of itself. What they're trying to do is to suppress support for the opposition, to try to make you think that you're somehow connected with. If you show up for a peaceful protest rally, I think the turnout's gonna be big, and I think that'll be a sign that their tactics aren't working, end quote. Our next guest, Professor Tim Snyder, said this about the Republicans whining about the no Kings rallies.

[D]

They've gotten together and they've assembled for themselves a propaganda line. They've assembled for themselves some message discipline. They're not going to use the words no Kings because using those words would make it clear that these rallies are about what America has always supposed to be. It's always supposed to have been against kings, against tyranny, against unfreedom. And it is wrong to lie. It's wrong for the speaker of the House of Representatives to lie. It's wrong to come up with a coordinated campaign to lie. It's a violation of the ninth Commandment. But it's also just simple indecency. But the thing that I want to say more positively is this. It's work to organize the people. Organizing the no Kings rallies are doing work. Getting thousands of sites ready, preparing for millions of people to protest peacefully.

[E]

That's work.

[D]

Now, it may be the kind of work that somebody sitting in a safe district in Louisiana and taking money from donors doesn't understand. But the essence of democracy is not safe districts and taking money from donors and putting on ties and doing what they tell you to do. The essence of democracy and freedom is being unpredictable. It's caring about your rights and the rights of others. It's caring about the republic as a whole.

[C]

So this Saturday, millions of Americans will join Professor Snyder in publicly assembling to protest Donald Trump's abuses of power. Trump may have troops he can't deploy, parades no one watches, and slogans that keep calling, falling flat, but the people. The people have something much stronger. The power to gather, the power to speak, and the power to remind the world that America does not kneel before kings. Leading off our discussion tonight, Timothy Snyder, Chair in Modern European History, professor of Global affairs and Public Policy at the University of Toronto. He's the author of the New York Times bestsellers On Freedom and On Tyranny. Professor Snyder, the message discipline is interesting and important here because they've called it the Hate America rally. You're gonna see antifa. You and I have discussed this. Antifa, an organization that isn't really pro Hamas and Marxists. This is combining all the worst parts of McCarthyism and the red Scare all into one. To make people who are actually out there going to protest for their rights and the preservation of democracy somehow seem evil.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And this is what authoritarians of all kinds always do. They try to take the people who are at the exact middle of a liberation movement and describe them as being outsiders, aliens, full of hate. It's a despicable tactic because it's. It's mendacious, and it's a despicable tactic because it's provocative. But it's also a sign of weakness when they can't even say the name of the protest movement because they're so afraid of it. That's not a sign of strength.

[C]

Yeah. Which is good, because sometimes people say that Democrats don't really have messaging discipline. No Kings. Pretty good, because you really don't want to be on the wrong side of that particular issue. Except, Tim, Donald Trump's acting like a king. Right. The reason we say no kings is because we believe in accountability. And what Donald Trump is doing with the courts, with the media, with the military, literally at the Pentagon, with having people sign that they'll. They'll only report things officially given to them. That's the opposite of accountability.

[D]

Yeah. I want to stress before I answer that that the no Kings protests and the Democrats are not the same thing. There will be plenty of people at the no Kings protests who are not Democrats.

[C]

Good point.

[D]

There will be plenty of people who think of themselves in other ways as being more to the left, more to the right, as being independents, as the crucial thing is, as you say, it's up or down on our republic. Right. Saying no kings is saying yes to a Republic, it's saying yes to democracy. It's saying yes to freedom. And when we have all those things, then we can decide amongst ourselves about particular policy questions. But what comes first is up or down on our democracy. Up or down on, on our, on our republic.

[C]

Yeah, you make a really interesting point because I was just talking to Jen Psaki, who was talking to Greg Casar, who was saying that amongst Democrats, for instance, there shouldn't be a litmus test about, about are. The point here is that this is about up or down on democracy. You can fight later about your positions on health care and minimum wage and whatever else subsidies you want it, you want to talk about, but right now it's up or down on, on democracy. Is that clear enough to, to people across the political spectrum?

[D]

I, I mean, for, you know, if you want good things to happen in the future, you have to have a democracy. If we, if we let the democracy go, if we drift towards this kind of social media oligarchy, few political clans have power, then you can forget about all the things that progressives rightly want, but Americans also want whether they think of themselves as progressive or not. Right, because you're gonna, you're not gonna have a function of government, you're not gonna have disease control, you're not gonna have health insurance, you're not gonna have Social Security unless you have democracy. Those are all things you only get with democracy. I mean, the way I see it, Ali, is something like this, that the, the, the movement of no Kings or a pro democratic movement is there to show what' different form of communication than a political party. It can help a political party move along. It can drag a political party along. It can. It's not about so much litmus tests of what's negative. It's about the positive possibility of building a big coalition.

[C]

What a great way to put it. And because of what you said about these things, organizing, taking work. I'm going to ask you to just stand by for a second and listen to this conversation. I want to bring in Dan Casson. He's a former engineer who's now a co leader of the Waukesha county east chapter of Indivisible in Wisconsin. And he's a member of the no Kings Milwaukee Coalition. And I think, Dan, you're the guy Tim Snyder's talking about when he says this takes work. Right. If millions of people show up, as I expect they will across the country on Saturday, it will be because people are organizing around this idea of democracy and freedom and justice.

[E]

You're right. It takes a lot of work. It's become almost a full time job for me, very honestly. But it's a badge of honor to hear what Mike Johnson is saying about no Kings that we're actually the one that's putting the, the, you know, stopping the gears on the whole problem we've been having with the shutdown. Not, you know, not, you know, staying where it is at this point because we're really pushing to engage and really take a nonpartisan action to really, really get a larger coalition of people, as Dr. Schneider saying, and make this happen.

[C]

Talk to me about you, because the thing about no Kings and Indivisible is that it may be some people's almost full time jobs right now, but you weren't all professionals at this. You are people who came about this from other, other walks of life and said, I have a role to play. Tell me about yours.

[E]

Yeah, well, started years ago when I was working in missionary work down in Central America with both El Salvador and, and Costa Rica and various groups down there and really helping support the migrant, the migrant population down there achieve their goals and working with them from the United States in a mode of cooperation. And then from there it's really just taken off to this particular administration's egregious actions and us just picking up the cloth from there and working with indivisible. Currently we have in our group a pillar called migrant ministry where we are continuing with the same kind of idea and working to push back on the pillars of authoritarianism with the religious pillar. So we're trying to shake that pillar and make people realize that they need to speak up and now is the time.

[C]

Do you think that the brutality that we've been watching with respect to migrants and undocumented immigrants in this country is moving some people to say I might think we should have stronger immigration policy. I didn't sign up for this.

[E]

You're absolutely right. I'm also involved in another coalition out in our neighbor Jefferson county with ICE currently attempting to enforce a 287 task force model on the police department there with incentives. We're fighting that and developing coalitions for that as well too, to fight back in a very predictable manner to get village board people interested and push back on the agreements that a police department chief can make. So we're, we're working at all angles on this.

[C]

Working at all angles is how this is going to change. Dan, thanks very much for what you're doing. Thank you for joining us as well tonight. Tim Schneider. I, I thought it was important to talk to Dan. Because Dan's what you're talking about. You talked about all the time. You tell me that sometimes it's 10 or 30 people gathering at a bridge to protest, and somehow. And on Saturday, it may be millions, but all of it matters.

[D]

Yeah. And if it's millions, it's because there are thousands of people like Dan. I mean, what the speaker of the House is trying to tell us is there's some incredible invisible conspiracy. There's some, you know, there's some invisible black hand behind all of this. And that's not way it works. If millions of people come out, it's because thousands of individuals are organizing and there are hundreds of different groups involved. You know, no, Kings is not itself a thing. No, Kings is a broad organizing umbrella of hundreds of different civil society groups all around the country who are cooperating with one another to make these things happen. And it's that cooperation, right, the numbers of individuals is important, but it's also important that people from different groups cooperate with one another to do something positive like this, because that's the way democracy is actually supposed to work. The people, we're all individuals. We're all different. We have different ideas and interests, but we work together horizontally to build coalitions. And then that way we can imagine a better. We can halt bad things now, but we can also talk to each other and imagine a better future.

[C]

Tim, great to see you. Thank you as always. Tim Snyder, professor at the University of Toronto. All right, coming up, Republicans apparently have found a new way to mess with voters. Simply don't seat the candidate they voted to elect. That's next. If you're wondering whether democracy might be a little bit broken, for three weeks now, voters from Arizona's 7th congressional district have been without representation in the House of Representatives. Now, sometimes that happens, but the reason here is because the Republican House Speaker, Mike Johnson, is refusing to swear in the Democrat who was duly elected to represent them. Adelita Grijalva is the latest example of Republicans finding new ways to undermine the electoral process. Earlier, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, who also happens to be one of Congresswoman elect Adelita Grijalva's constituents, said this at a rally outside the Capitol. Gabby and I live in that district. We currently do not have representation in the U.S. house of Representatives. And that is wrong. Just recently, the speaker gave another lame excuse that she needs the pomp and circumstance of a swearing in in front of her House colleagues. Do you need the pomp and circumstance?

[A]

I do not.

[C]

You do not. This is. Yeah, this is this is unprecedented and it's wrong. And the speaker is doing this purely for political reasons. Now, the political reason that Democrats say Speaker Johnson doesn't want to swear in Congresswoman elect Grijalva is because she would be. She would represent the 218th vote that Democrats need to advance a discharge petition that would force the release of the Epstein files, files that Donald Trump doesn't want made public because his name appears in those files. So for now, Speaker Johnson has found a way to stop that outcome by simply refusing to seat the person who would make that happen. Late last night, members of the Congressional Hispanic and Women's Caucuses marched through the halls of the Capitol with Adelita Grijalva in protest of Speaker Johnson's attempt to ignore Democratic norms and demanding that he swear her in. And Arizona's Attorney General is now threatening to sue Speaker Johnson for keeping an entire district with more than 813,000 people without a voice in Congress. Last hour on MSNBC, Congresswoman elect Grijalva told Jen Psaki this.

[A]

It's a really dangerous precedent. The bedrock of our democracy is free and fair elections. And so on every front, they're attacking that. And there are 812 people in my district that deserve to have a voice here in Congress that need somebody there when they knock on a door to get some help from their congressional representative. And they don't have that person there. And Speaker Johnson doesn't seem to care about that. The fact that I have more people in my district than he does. We need to dedicate voice and energy to those who don't have one. And it's important for him to do his job.

[C]

Joining us now is the Arizona Secretary of State, Adrian Fontes. Secretary Fontes, imagine that we're having a conversation about elections in Arizona and how they turn out. This one is, by the way, as a Secretary of state and you've monitored elections for a long time, the reasons stated for not swearing in Representative to be Grijalva make no sense because they've actually sworn in other people when a House has not been in session, they've sworn in other people during shutdowns. The House isn't on a shutdown. They actually swear in every day and then close up again. They could swear here and there's just no reason for this.

[F]

Yeah, the rules are very simple. And frankly, there were three other members of Congress, members of the House sworn in this year before any official results were canvassed or certified. Now, we sent a letter the day after the election, which was, as you said, a few weeks ago to the Clerk of the House. And it was the same kind of letter with the same verbiage that those two representatives in Florida used to get sworn in. Just a couple days ago, Governor Hobbs and Attorney General Mays and myself canvassed the election. And I personally signed off on that certificate of election. It is in the hands of the Clerk of the House. As I understand it, there are no excuses any longer. And let's remember, the speaker of the House can call a pro forma session at will and do whatever sorts of business he needs to do, like, I don't know, swearing in a member of Congress.

[E]

Right.

[F]

His refusal to do so is beyond any regular practice or any regular rules. And it's confounding. Unless you're just going to do political speculation, which, you know, take your guess, they've given a million reasons. None of them hold anyone.

[C]

But just to be clear, there's no actual reason. There's nothing in dispute. There's no question about her candidacy. There's no question about her election. It's been certified. That's all settled. He said it was about popping circumstance. She said herself don't care about the pomp and circumstance. Unimportant. And in the governance of America, none of us care about the pomp and circumstance either. But at some point, as you've seen, this can only go on so long. At some point, the shutdown will end. At some point, if she's the 218th vote and this is about Epstein, this is going to come to a head one way or the other. You can't. You can't wait this out for too long.

[F]

Well, look, if there's anything we can conclude very clearly from this entire ridiculous episode, it is this. The rules have been followed. And Mike Johnson is an abject coward. It's just that simple. He's afraid of Adelita Grijalva. He's afraid of what she represents. He's afraid of seating her because what might end up happening to his politics and his political views. And you know what? That's okay, except that it's not in that he's keeping all these folks from being represented. And why do I say it's okay to be afraid of it? Because that's the competition of American politics. The people in that district sent a Democrat, specifically the first Latina in Arizona history, to represent, to be a representative in Congress, to sit in that seat, and she deserves to sit in that seat. Now, we've followed all the rules. We followed all the process. It's time for Mr. Johnson to put on his big boy pants, call the pro forma session, get Adelita sworn in, and get on with the business of America.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And whatever percentage she won by, there are 812,000 constituents in, in that, in that district, some of whom didn't vote for her, none of whom have a representative in Congress at the moment.

[F]

Yeah. You know, that's one of the things that's most interesting is here's a group of folks who were talking about personal responsibility and grit and following through and all of those, you know, great American virtues. And yet given the opportunity to just do his job, just get the rules followed and folks represented, you know, it's a slap in the face to American democracy when this is being held up. And I've heard a variety of excuses coming out of the Speaker's office. And look, I'm not going to speculate about his politics and what he might be trying to hide or what he might be afraid of. It's clear that he's afraid of something, namely ceding Adelita Grijalva and whatever consequence may come of that. But at some point, the American public understands something very clearly. He's gaming the system. People in this country don't like cheaters. They don't mind a winner and a loser. But when you're cheating, when you're gaming the system, when you're playing this nonsense, this is exactly what has corroded the faith that people have in Congress. So Speaker Johnson is, is the example. He's leading by example. And it's the example that keeps many Americans losing faith in their political class.

[C]

Absolutely right. Good to see you again. Adrian Fontes is the Secretary of State of Arizona. Thank you for joining us tonight. All right, coming up, October 15th is open enrollment in some parts of the country. And people in one red state today are shocked by how much their health insurance costs have jumped. We'll talk about that next.

[B]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

Voters already overwhelmingly disapprove of Donald Trump's economy. And as Donald Trump refuses to negotiate with Democrats to extend health insurance subsidies for more than 22 million people, the shutdown enters its third week. Trump's Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant said the shutdown is costing the United States economy up to $15 billion a day as federal workers are missing their paychecks or receiving only partial pay. Now, that would be bad news in any economy, but it's particularly bad news in an economy with a slowing jobs market, high inflation, and rising costs because of Donald Trump's inexplicable tariff policy. The CEO of GoFundMe now says the economy is so bad that more people are crowdsourcing just to pay for basic essentials.

[E]

We have a group of sort of a category of fundraising we call essentials, which are things like rent, utility bills, car payments, sort of your basic things you need to get through life. That category has gone up significantly in the last three years in practically all our markets because affordability is an issue in essentially all OECD economists.

[C]

So people starting GoFundMe campaigns just to get food. And I don't mean to sound flippant, I just think natural disaster. GoFundMe, I don't necessarily think, wow, I need groceries.

[E]

Yes, in some cases, very sadly, that is happening. Yeah, we're seeing that more and more.

[C]

Wall Street Journal is also reporting about how people are struggling with higher prices at the grocery store. Quote, inflation in the grocery aisle is picking up and stinging consumers. Consumers said they're cutting back on purchases, stockpiling certain foods or exploring more affordable stores. And we're about to head into the holiday season where because of Donald Trump's tariffs, buying costumes for Halloween, cooking Thanksgiving dinner, and buying Christmas presents will all cost more than last year. Even Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene painted this clear picture of what Trump's economy looks like for Americans right now.

[A]

Prices have not come down at all.

[C]

The job market is.

[A]

The job market is still extremely difficult. Wages have not gone up. Health insurance premiums are going to go up. Car insurance goes up every year, people's homeowners insurance goes up. Rent is going up. People, young people, have no hope of buying a home.

[C]

It's with great caution that I run clips of Marjorie Taylor Greene, but she's saying some things a lot of Republicans are even talking about, specifically railing against the spike in health care premiums that her own adult kids will be forced to pay next year if Republicans refuse to extend the expiring subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. Posting last week, quote, not a single Republican in leadership talked to us about this or has given us a plan to help Americans deal with their health insurance premiums doubling. It is absolutely shameful, disgusting and traitorous that our laws and policies screw the American people so much that the government is shut down right now fighting over basic issues like this. End quote. So far, Donald Trump and the Republican Party don't have an answer for that. If that's not bad enough for Republicans, NBC News is reporting just how steep those premium increases will be in 2026. In Idaho, where open enrollment starts today, NBC News reports that retired Idaho residents Bob McMichael and his wife Leslie currently pay $51 a month for their ACA plan. Late last month, they got a notice that their monthly premium would increase to $2,232 next year without the subsidies. We're facing a stratospheric increase in health care and probably don't have any option to stay on health care as of January 2026, McMichael said probably don't have any option to stay on health care. This choice is no longer hypothetical. As Democratic Senate leader Chuck Schumer said.

[B]

Today, I say to my Republican colleagues, especially in the House, you can't hide from your constituents forever. The American people expect Congress to fix this health care crisis because otherwise people will go bankrupt, people will get sick, people will lose insurance, people will fail to get the care they need, and more people, more people will needlessly die.

[C]

Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He's the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee and a member of the Ways and Means Committee. Congressman Boyle, great to have you on the show. Thank you for being with us tonight.

[G]

Yeah, great to be with you.

[C]

Remarkable messaging around the no Kings rallies this weekend. They're the Hate America rallies that will be populated by Marxists, antifa, pro Hamas, all that kind of stuff. And yet Marjorie Taylor Greene can't get a straight answer on healthcare premiums.

[G]

Yeah, I think they forgot to mention Castro Xi Jinping.

[C]

Correct.

[G]

Some others of their greatest hits. Look, when you've lost Marjorie Taylor Greene, then you're probably losing Republicans. And the story of that couple you just cited in IDO is really heartbreaking. But it's only the beginning. Idaho just so happens to be the very first state, when it comes to the Obamacare exchanges, to be sending out these letters. They will all be sending out these letters with premium increases over the next two weeks. In my state, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, it is estimated by the administrator of our system, which is called Penny, that the average premium increase will be 102%. So, look, none of this should be surprising. Just three months ago, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the Republican tax bill would cause 15.1 million Americans to lose their health care coverage and tens of millions more to see dramatic spikes in the cost of their health care. Those increases, those health care losses, literally begin today. That's why Democrats are fighting to prevent this from happening.

[C]

Right. It's not an abstraction, and I wanna be clear, because there are a few things happening at the same. One is that health care costs are increasing, and they've been increasing for decades at a rate much faster than anybody gets a raise. Number two, people who get their insurance through work will be paying, as this has also been happening for decades, a greater proportion of their insurance. Number three, people on ACA exchanges will see their premiums increase, which, in effect, if you're increasing people's rates at 100%, if you're taking that Idaho couple and taking them from a few hundred dollars a month to $2,300 a month, you're basically kicking people off their healthcare. For all intents and purposes, they're losing their health care coverage.

[G]

Yeah, that's right. Remember, again, I go back to the CPO data because they're a nonpartisan, official source. When they said over 15 million people would lose their healthcare coverage, they estimated about 5 million of that would come from those who are currently on the ACA, who are like that Idaho couple, insured and paying something they can afford.

[C]

Right?

[G]

But their hike would go up by such a degree that they would no longer be able to afford it, and then they would lose it. And then, let's not Forget the additional 10 million people who will lose their health care coverage once the Medicaid cuts take effect approximately a year from now.

[C]

We learned this during the 2008 recession. We learned it in Covid. Most Americans, most American small businesses, don't keep a lot of cash. They don't have this extra money. They have to think 10 times before they buy anything more than their necessity. We just heard from the CEO of GoFundMe talking about how people are having GoFundMes for their essentials. And unfortunately, it shouldn't be this way. But in this country, health care is to some people a choice they can make to not take. They might have to choose their food or their rent over their health care.

[G]

First, I have to say, and I spend, given my role as ranking member of Budget Committee, also given just my own interests and policies, I spend a lot of time with data and statistics. Hearing that anecdotal information from the GoFundMe CEO, I did a double take. The fact that people are now having to go to GoFundMe just to pay for weekly groceries, that is a flashing red alert on your dashboard. That this economy is failing normal, regular people, that this Trump economy is failing the American people. And let's not forget, but the reason more than any other why Donald Trump won my state of Pennsylvania, the biggest battleground state, and why he won nationally by just over a point, was that he repeatedly daily said he would bring down costs for the American people. On that score, as MTG herself cited, Donald Trump has been a miserable failure.

[C]

One of the things that becomes impossible to explain. I said the inexplicable tariff policy. Tariffs are a really interesting tool. They can be used really, really effectively. I have no sense of why these tariffs are the way they are, except for the fact that they are inflationary.

[G]

Yeah, look, I mean, a tariff, as you pointed out, can be an effective tool. For example, I've supported limited tariffs, such as to go after China, who engages in steel dumping and is attempting to artificially depress prices. That said, we should be clear, a tariff is a tax. These completely random Trump tariffs are taxes on goods. He's applied them to 93 different countries. He sometimes has higher rates just based on whether or not he happens to like the leader of a given country.

[C]

It is nuts.

[G]

And in the end of the day, it's not anyone who's a political enemy of this president who's paying the price. It is literally ordinary Americans who are paying the price at the cash register.

[C]

Congressman, always good to have you here. We appreciate people whose heads are in the numbers and the data around here. So thanks for your time tonight, Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. All right, coming up, Trump won a huge share of the Hispanic vote in the last election. He did especially well in border states like Texas. But now Republicans will have to play defense on a surprising issue. That's next. It's cybersecurity Awareness Month and Lifelock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected with a 30 day free [e-mail] Specialoffer terms apply. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well Kitchen sink install done well Deck upgrades done well Electrical upgrade done well Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high quality [e-mail] Imagine relying on.

[B]

A dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more expensive and more.

[C]

Complicated than the last.

[B]

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[C]

One of the more alarming trends for Democrats during the 2024 election cycle was the dramatic rightward of Hispanic voters in the presidential election, NBC News reported at the time. Vice President Kamala Harris finished with a slim majority of support from Hispanic voters at 53%, while Trump vacuumed up about 45% of the vote, a 13 point increase from 2020 and a record high for a Republican presidential nominee, according to NBC News exit polls. Democrats lost major ground in several states with large Hispanic populations, like Arizona, Florida, Nevada and Texas, which saw the largest drop at 15 points. The new York Times went to the Rio Grande Valley in Texas earlier this year with the question, does the rightward lurch of Hispanic working class voters have staying power or can Democrats win them back? Republican leaders along the Rio Grande have for years been courting socially conservative Latinos in the region's mix of growing urban centers and rural ranch lands by preaching common ground on family values, border security, abortion and views about gender identity and roles. No doubt 2024 was a breakthrough moment, at least on the presidential level. Mr. Trump took 12 of the 14 counties along the border with Mexico more than double the five that he took in 2016. Eight of the top 10 Democratic counties that swung hardest toward Mr. Trump are within a short drive to Mexico. The area is where many local residents have cultural ties, perplexing political experts who assume that Mr. Trump's campaign promise of mass deportations and his condemnation of illegal immigration would sour Latino voters almost a year removed from the 2024 election. And Democrats in Texas are working hard to reverse that trend ahead of the 2026 midterms. Texas state Representative Gina Hinojosa grew up in the Rio Grande Valley and has been fighting the conservative governor Greg Abbott from the state House. She now wants to have that debate about the issues head on. The Texas Tribune reports. Texas Representative Gina Hinojosa on Wednesday announced that she is running for governor in 2026, setting up a potential clash between Republican Governor Greg Abbott and one of the Legislature's most strident critics of his school voucher program. Through nearly a decade in the Legislature, Hinojosa has made defending public education her calling card, becoming a primary foil to Abbott on private school vouchers. Education was the issue Hinojosa highlighted in her launch video today.

[A]

I came up in Brownsville public schools where no one had much money, but we had a strong sense of family and community. When I started my own family, we built our lives around those same values. They tried to shut down my son's school, noted I ran for school board and I won the seat. Then I won the fight. We kept that school open, but Abbott spent tax dollars meant for our schools on payouts to his donors. So I ran for the statehouse and once I got there, we won a historic investment in Texas public schools. Don't mess with Texas moms.

[C]

Joining me now is Texas State Representative Gina Hinojosa. She represents Texas 49th district. Representative Hinojosa, great to see you again. Thank you for being with us.

[A]

It's wonderful to be here. Thank you, Ali.

[C]

This is no small feat. Greg Abbott is well entrenched to he apparently has more than $87 million in his campaign account at the end of June. He's won all three of his gubernatorial races by double digits. Talk to me about your approach to this.

[A]

Well, Greg Abbott's campaign contributions are an indication of the primary problem we have in Texas, and that is that our governor is corrupt. So I've been in the Legislature now for almost a decade, and what I know is that corruption leads the agenda in the Texas Legislature. It is Greg Abbott's agenda. He is not doing the work of working Texans and Texas families, and that's why I'm running to be the governor for the people of Texas.

[C]

I want to read you a little bit from an article in Politico in which it says underlying the 2024 election results was a subtle trend that could signal a dramatic reshaping of the electorate. A surge in ticket splitting among Latino voters who shifted sharply toward Donald Trump but also supported Democratic House and Senate candidates. The rise in voters simultaneously backing both parties revealed by a detailed new Politico analysis of results and voting records, complicates how both parties will approach next year's midterms and the 2028 presidential race. It also raises an urgent question. Were Trump's gains with Latinos a sign of a fundamental break with the Democratic Party, or are voters who backed him in 2024 still largely Democrats who just preferred him over Kamala Harris? I'm not sure if that's the key question, but it's certainly one question that people are asking about Texas and Latino voters in particular.

[A]

Well, let me say this. Latinos are looking for a candidate they can identify with. I am from the Valley. This is where I was born and raised. And what I hear in the Valley is Latinos, like all Texans, want a focus on kitchen table issues. They're concerned about the cost of housing. They're concerned about the cost of groceries. The cost of health care is out of reach. Texas has two times the rate of uninsured as the national average. Texans are hurting. Texans are struggling. This is Greg Abbott's record. He owns it. And it is time for change. That is the message I'm hearing from Latinos in the Valley, and that is the message I'm hearing all over this state.

[C]

Tech Latinos in the, in the Rio Grande Valley. I think we're on our eighth or ninth generation in some cases. Right. Some may be recent immigrants, but, but many have been there for a very, very, very long time. Greg Abbott has been at the, the front of this, this immigration crackdown. He and Ron DeSantis were sort of there before ice was all over there. Is this playing as badly down there as it is in the rest of the country? The actual brutality. You can believe in a closed door. You can believe in stronger immigration policy. Very few people I meet believe in the beatings and the arrest of children and the things that are going on right now.

[A]

Yes. What I am hearing here in the Valley is that people are alarmed. They are scared. They see longtime members of their community being detained, being deported. It's important to the people of the Valley and I think to all Texans and probably all Americans, that we treat everyone with dignity, but that the people who have been here have roots in our community, are treated differently than people who just arrived. That we recognize that these people are beloved members of our community. And if they are hardworking, law abiding, there should be a path towards citizenship for these people.

[C]

Texas state representative and now candidate for Texas governor, Gina Hinojoso. Great to have you on the show. Thank you for being with us tonight.

[A]

My pleasure. Thank you.

[C]

And we'll be right back. That is tonight's last word. The 11th hour with Stephanie Rule starts right now.

[B]

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