← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Dems slam Trump crypto dinner as ‘orgy of corruption’
00:42:18
Tonight on The Last Word: Donald Trump’s crypto dinner raises questions on ethics and access. Also, Trump confirms his attempt to deport migrants to South Sudan. Plus, Trump confronts South Africa’s leader with debunked “white genocide” claims. And the Trump Justice Department announces its plan to cancel George Floyd era police reforms. Nnamdi Egwuonwu, Sen. Jeff Merkley, Barbara McQuade, Patrick Gaspard, and Toluse Olorunnipa join Jason Johnson.
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- [00:00]
Dr. Horton
Your new beginning starts now. Dr. Horton has new construction homes available in Ellensburg and throughout the greater Seattle area. With spacious floor plans, flexible living spaces and home technology packages, you can enjoy more cozy moments and sweet memories in your beautiful new home. With new home communities opening in Ellensburg and throughout the Seattle area, Dr. Horton has the ideal home for you. Learn more at Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal Housing Opportunity Builder.
- [00:32]
Will Arnett
Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app. Download it today.
- [01:08]
Jason Johnson
The Last Word with Jason Johnson is in for Lawrence and he starts right now. Hey, Jason, how you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks so much, Jen, for starting us off tonight. Thank you.
- [01:18]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
Oh boy.
- [01:20]
Jason Johnson
The Mount Everest of American corruption. That is how our first guest tonight referred to Donald Trump hosting a dinner tonight for the highest bidders to Donald Trump's latest grift, his crypto coin. NBC News reports quote the price of admission $55,000 to 37.7 million. That's how much the 220 winners of a contest to meet Trump spent on his volatile cryptocurrency token. In total, the winner spent 394 million on Trump's official cryptocurrency. While the website for the contest claims that Trump is appearing at the dinner as a guest and not soliciting any funds for also says that 80% of the Trump coin project is owned by two Trump affiliated companies. You know, Trump is just a guest at his his own dinner and the companies are only affiliated with Trump and that clears up any conflict of interest and selling the office concerns said no one ever under any circumstances. The top bidder at this dinner is Justin's son, a crypto billionaire who was sued by the securities and Exchange Commission, a case that's on hold thanks to Trump's Justice Department. And while the identities of most of the other contest winners are largely private, NBC News reports that, quote, a majority of the attendees appear to be foreign nationals. According to Molly White, an independent crypto researcher who has written about the contest. Of the 220 wallets tied to contest winners, 158 of them or 72% appear foreign, white told NBC News. A New York Times investigation reported that the leaderboard included people representing crypto businesses in Singapore and Australia. Look, I try not to, but a lot has been normalized about Donald Trump, but this, this is something else. This is shocking and a stunning level of unethical behavior for a sitting president. United States. About 100 protesters gathered outside Donald Trump's club to protest the denture the dinner, chanting and holding signs that read Trump is a traitor, Crypto, corruption, and America is not for sale. One of those protesters was Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley, who introduced a bill to prevent presidents and lawmakers from buying or selling crypto. We shouldn't have to have a law for this, he told Politico. Quote, this is the Mount Everest of American corruption. This isn't about raising money for a campaign. This is about personal profit. And what he's selling is influence on himself and his cabinet and the U.S. government. Other Democrats join Senator Merkley in calling out Donald Trump's blatant corruption.
- [03:58]
Barbara McQuaid
Donald Trump's dinner is a, is a, an orgy of corruption. Donald Trump is using the presidency of the United States to make himself richer through crypto, and he's doing it right out there in plain sight.
- [04:19]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
I don't know how you teach high school civics with President Trump in this position accepting payments in his meme coin operation, cash in his pocket, hundreds of millions of dollars, selling the White House, literally putting a for sale sign on his office. This private, secret dinner in which individuals who have put money in Donald Trump's pocket get access to him is maybe the most corrupt of all of the corruption.
- [04:55]
Jason Johnson
Donald Trump used to talk about cryptocurrency as a scam. There's no greater epitome of this administration than a scam currency being used for a scam dinner. Donald Trump already stands to profit personally from business dealings in Middle Eastern countries he just visited during his first international trip as president for the second time, including, as the New York Times notes, through an investment firm. The United Arab Emirates put 2 billion into the Trump family's new cryptocurrency outfit. Qatar chipped in to help finance a Trump branded beachside golf and luxury villa project. And the country worth 5.5 billion. A real estate firm in Saudi Arabia with close ties to the country's government invested 1 billion in the Trump International Hotel and Tower project in Dubai. That's just naming a few. The optics of the Middle east trip that Donald Trump was making business deals for himself instead of conducting foreign policy. Even rankled former Fox host and huge Trump fan Tucker Carlson, who on this podcast this week agreed with the right wing guest and said, quote, it seems like corruption, broken clocks and all that. That's on top of the $400 million plane that Qatar gave Donald Trump as a gift that has been accepted by his Defense department to later be handed over to his presidential library. As if he reads meaning yes, Donald Trump gets a free plane from Qatar. And let's not forget this is a third 13 year old plane that Qatar had been trying to sell for years with no luck, according to the New York Times. It's like the fruitcake that just keeps getting passed around because nobody actually wants it until Donald Trump says, hey fruitcake. NBC News reports that to get the plane equipped to serve as Air Force one could cost 1 billion and take years to complete. But the American people may not even learn how much they will have to pay to update Donald Trump's plane. And as NBC News reports, quote, the Air Force will not say publicly which company will do the work, how long it'll take, or how much it is going to cost because it's all classified according to two US Defense officials. Other Air Force One contracts that are similar are not classified, according to those same officials. Donald Trump is still is thrilled to take Qatar's fruitcake plane and Qatar is surely thrilled to offload the bills for it onto the American taxpayer. Donald Trump's tariffs are already causing pain for Americans, with businesses promising higher prices, empty shelves and job losses. All the while, tariff chaos has tanked stocks and cut into people's retirement funds. The stock market slipped slightly today, CNBC reports, as investors grappled with fears of rising rates and worries about a ballooning U.S. deficit. The 30 year treasury yield hit its highest since October 2023 as lawmakers passed a bill that investors fear could worsen the U.S. deficit. The Washington Post notes, quote, if yields remain elevated, they will eventually mean higher borrowing costs on mortgages, credit cards and auto loans. After hours of debate in the middle of the night, House Republicans pass by just one vote their massive bill that will deliver tax cuts to the rich and add trillions to the deficit while kicking millions of regular Americans off their health insurance with with cuts to Medicaid and Medicare. Republican Thomas Massie was one of two Republicans to vote against the bill because of what he says it will mean for the US Economy. This bill is a debt bomb ticking. Congress can do funny math, fantasy math if it wants. We're going to rack up, the authors say, $20 trillion of new debt over the next 10 years.
- [08:37]
Dr. Horton
I'm telling you, it's closer to $30.
- [08:38]
Jason Johnson
Trillion of new debt in the next 10 years. Mr. Speaker, we're not rearranging deck chairs.
- [08:45]
Dr. Horton
On the Titanic tonight.
- [08:47]
Jeff Merkley
We're putting coal in the boiler and.
- [08:49]
Dr. Horton
Setting a course for the iceberg.
- [08:53]
Jason Johnson
And rose isn't going to save us. Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries laid out what this Republican bill, with its cuts to Medicaid and Medicare, means for the average American. We have the lowest rate of uninsured people in our nation's history. But this GOP tax scam will reverse that with this assault on health care, the largest cut to Medicaid in American history. Children will get hurt. Women will get hurt. Older Americans who rely on Medicaid for nursing home care and for home care will get hurt. People with disabilities who rely on Medicaid to survive will get hurt.
- [09:43]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
Hospitals in your districts will close.
- [09:47]
Jason Johnson
Nursing homes will shut down, and people will die. Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin put Donald Trump's corruption to enrich himself at the expense of the American people into perspective. There's nothing beautiful or big about stripping 14 million Americans of their health care or removing food security from 11 million people, including 4 million kids. That's ugly. That's small. I know Donald Trump has increased his net worth by more than $3 billion since taking office from his global crypto scam and that yesterday he brought home a $400 million jumbo jet from the monarch dictator of Qatar. A flying constitutional violation packed with threats of espionage and surveillance. But there's nothing big or beautiful about plundering the wealth of the people of America to give to the people who have already profited from Donald Trump's priority schemes. Joining us now is NBC News Nandi Egwu Onwu, who was on the scene speaking were protesters earlier.
- [11:04]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
Jason, the empty road you see behind me just hours ago was lined with protesters who made clear their opposition to Donald Trump's event tonight and also his administration's policies. No less than 100 protesters lined the sidewalks on this road, armed with signs and megaphones, and described this event as Trump selling access to the leader of the free world to the highest bidder. They noted that attendees of this crypto event paid upwards of millions of dollars to have a meal with the President of the United States and described that as being corrupt. Now, the attendees who came to this to protest this event came from several local Democratic groups as well as public citizen and nonprofit group. But they all shared the same condemnation of this event. They described it as Trump attempting to pursue his business interests and line up his own pockets at the expense of the American public and using the office of the presidency to do so. Now, as attendees came in, we saw plenty. These protesters quite literally shamed them. They were saying, shame. These are crypto con artists and you're suggesting that they're complicit in Trump's administration and some of the more controversial policies of the administration. Now, most of the attendees, for the most part, just brushed it off their shoulder and entered the event. But one took issue with those characterizations and sparred directly with protesters, rejecting their assertion that he supports Trump and describing this as a once in a lifetime opportunity to dine with the leader of the free world and talk about industry that had has made him a millionaire. But that fell on deaf ears to the protesters who said anyone who enters this event is being complicit in Trump attempting to pursue business interests while still serving as the President of the United States. One former Treasury Department worker who was here protesting described it to me as Trump getting richer while America gets poorer. When I asked him what he meant by that, he pointed to the bill we saw yesterday passed by the House, the reconciliation bill, which the Congressional Budget Office estimated would indeed lead to the poorest Americans getting poorer in years to come. They said that Trump co signing legislation like that while holding an event like this is corrupt and at a minimum, beneath the office of the presidency. Jason.
- [13:15]
Jason Johnson
NBC's Nadia Egwgo, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Joining us now is Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon. He is the ranking member of the Budget Committee and a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Thank you so much, Senator, for joining us this evening. I'm going to, I'm going to start with this, this sort of thing, to me, this is third world dictator nonsense. It's almost as if our presidency is a step away from Trump having his own QVC channel and like selling supplements. So just from the perspective of a sitting senator, how do you view this? I mean, we've never seen anything like this. What's just your first visceral response to what the President is doing right now?
- [13:59]
Jeff Merkley
It's just jaw dropping and shocking because of the fact that as a republic, we're elected to serve our constituents, the American people. And when you decide instead you're going to sell access and influence to people who are not American citizens. And the fact that you're selling anything at all, it's just completely out of sync with your responsibility and your oath to the Constitution. I mean, our founders were so worried about people buying influence. They put a whole clause into the Constitution saying we couldn't accept gifts from foreign governments. And if they could see what was happening right now, they'd say this is exactly the type of monumental influence that destroys a republic that we were concerned about.
- [14:45]
Jason Johnson
Senator. So then the follow up question that most Americans have is what can we do about it? I mean, is there some sort of federal repo man or woman that can go into the White House and say, hey, we're gonna take the plane? I think it's very clear to most of the American people that this is a grift. But their frustration comes from the fact that it doesn't seem like anything is being done about it.
- [15:07]
Jeff Merkley
Well, that's right. They should be very frustrated because Congress should act right now to put an end to it. There are ethics laws that cover members of Congress that don't cover the President. It wasn't thought necessary. There was some concern about separation of powers, but now it's clear we absolutely have to put into law that this type of self dealing is not okay, that it's a. And so we have a bill right now, I have a bill, the end Crypto Corruption Act. Dozens, a couple dozen senators have signed onto it. We should pass that bill. But here's the problem, Jason. It takes Republican cooperation to get to the floor of the Senate and that's not going to happen. So what can we do? Well, we're going to try to do it as an amendment on some other bill coming through the Senate, probably the genius bill which we'll be considering when we return after next week's break.
- [16:00]
Jason Johnson
So I want to ask this also. There is a sense sometimes amongst your average American that while the Democrats know this is wrong and while the Democrats will push through policies that want to change, people still want something more disruptive. What is something that can be done right now by Democrats in the House or Democrats in the Senate about this behavior? Because hey, bills take time and as you said, you know, they might have to be added to some other piece of legislation. You might need Republican support. Is there something you can do right now? Is there something you can shut down? Are there appointments that you can stop? Is there something you can do to tell this administration this week at this moment, free planes and crypto are no longer accepted in the White House.
- [16:43]
Jeff Merkley
Well, if folks were watching the Senate last night, we were doing one amendment or one motion after another to disrupt the process of the Senate proceeding to become basically a way in which legislation can be passed by passed passing the normal legislative process. And so we did all these motions and then eventually they were all defeated. And I think most Americans said, well, that wasn't really, that was kind of wimpy. You made motions and then you lost. And we've done many other things. We've used every hour necessary for every single nomination. But again, those nominations all get passed. What we need is ability to force people to vote so that their vote will be accountable. And this is where I've been talking about the desperate need to reform the Senate. Because of the way it's structured right now, the powerful can keep any bill that serves the people and any amendment that serves the people from ever getting debated and voted on. And so we're using our voice. We're attending demonstrations, as I did this evening. We're telling the people of America they have to stand up and give us a hard time. Hold all your electives, use your passion, show up. Hold us accountable. Join affinity groups. Because when you're working with others, when you're angry and alone, you're depressed. But when you're angry and organized with others, you're effective and energized. So these, it is very frustrating that we don't have. We're using every tool we have, but it's not enough.
- [18:13]
Jason Johnson
Senator Jeff Merkley, thank you so very much for reminding us what the American people can do to make a difference in this administration. Appreciate it.
- [18:19]
Jeff Merkley
Great to be with you, Jason. Thank you.
- [18:22]
Jason Johnson
Coming up, Donald Trump confirmed today that his administration was attempting to deport eight migrants to war torn South Sudan until it was stopped by a federal judge. And now he's calling on the Supreme Court to help him out. We'll discuss that Next with Barbara McQuaid.
- [18:42]
Dr. Horton
Your new beginning starts now. Dr. Horton has new construction homes available in Ellensburg and throughout the greater Seattle area. With spacious floor plans, flexible living spaces and home technology packages, you can enjoy more cozy moments and sweet memories in your beautiful new home. With new home communities opening in Ellensburg and throughout the Seattle area, Dr. Horton has the ideal home for you. Learn more at Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder.
- [19:13]
Will Arnett
Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app. Download it today.
- [19:50]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
Work Management platforms ugh. Endless onboarding. IT bottlenecks admin requests. But what if things were different? Monday.com is different. No lengthy onboarding, beautiful reports in minutes, Custom workflows you can build on your own. Easy to use prompt, Free AI. Huh. Turns out you can love a work management platform. Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use.
- [20:25]
Jason Johnson
Today. In a social media post, Donald Trump confirmed his administration attempted to deport eight migrants to war torn South Sudan, but that the migrants are currently being held in the East African country of Djibouti, New York Times reports. A federal judge in Boston said on Wednesday that the Trump administration had violated an order he issued last month barring officials from deporting people to countries not their own without first giving them sufficient time to object. The finding by the judge, Brian E. Murphy, was one of the strongest judicial rebukes the administration has faced so far in a series of contentious cases arising from its sprawling deportation agenda. It was not immediately clear what punishment, if any, Judge Murphy intended to meet out against the administration or those who took part in the operation, but he asked for a list of names of everyone involved so that he could notify them that they might face criminal penalties. In his post today, Trump added, hopefully the Supreme Court of the United States will put an end to the quagmire caused by a federal judge stopping him. This is all happening as the Trump administration continues to buck the Supreme Court, which unanimously ordered it 42 days ago to facilitate the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia after he was sent to an El Salvadoran prison by mistake. The New York Times detailed how Trump officials debated handling the Abrego Garcia case the days before the government's error became public. DHS officials discussed trying to portray Mr. Abrego Garcia as a leader of the violent street gang ms.15, even though they could find no evidence to support the claim. They considered ways to nullify the original order that barred his deportation to El Salvador. They sought to downplay the danger he might face in one of that country's most notorious prisons. And in the end, a senior Justice Department lawyer who counseled bringing Mr. Abrego Garcia back to the United States was fired for what Attorney General Pam Bondi said was a failure to zealously advocate on behalf of the United States Senator Chris Van Hollen, the only person in America who has met with Kilmar Abrego Garcia since he was sent to prison and confronted Secretary of State Marco Rubio about the case at a hearing earlier this week.
- [22:46]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
We deported gang members, gang members, including the one you had a margarita with. And that guy is a human trafficker.
- [22:53]
Jason Johnson
And that guy is a gang banger.
- [22:55]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
And that, and the evidence is going to be clear in the days who.
- [22:58]
Patrick Gaspard
You went to die.
- [22:59]
Jason Johnson
I'm sorry. Rubio has the floor, Chairman. He can't make unsubstantiated senator like that. Secretary Rubio has the floor. You, Secretary Rubio should take that testimony.
- [23:09]
Patrick Gaspard
The federal court Senator of the United States, because he hasn't done it under oath.
- [23:13]
Jason Johnson
Abrego Garcia hasn't been charged or convicted of any crimes, as Senator Chris Van Hollen says. He is not vouching for AO Garcia, and neither is the conservative majority of the Supreme Court. They're vouching for the United States Constitution, which says in America, an administration can't randomly deport people to foreign prisons without due process. And as these high profile games of chicken are playing out, the Trump administration has arrested a sitting mayor, Ross Baraka, charged a sitting U.S. house member, Lamonica McIver, and a sitting federal judge, Hannah Dugan, who have oversight authority over the executive branch's immigration policy as they've attempted to exercise that authority. And the purpose of that is to have a chilling effect against all oversight and all protests against what this administration is doing under the guise of immigration. Joining us now to discuss is Barbara McQuaid, former U.S. attorney and a law professor at the University of Michigan Law School. She is also an MSNBC legal analyst. Barbara, thanks so much. I cannot think of a better person to talk to about this tonight. We're going to start with this. What is the enforcement mechanism? Because I personally and I know many of the American people, we're tired of hearing the courts are going to save us. The courts have been telling the Trump administration bring Abreligo Garcia back. The courts have been telling the administration, you can't do this, you can't do that. But they're still shipping people out. They're still breaking into people's homes. And this gentleman still hasn't been returned to his family in Maryland. What can be done, if not against Trump himself, then maybe even ICE agents who engage in this now unconstitutional behavior as our courts have laid out.
- [24:52]
Barbara McQuaid
Yeah. If you listen, Jason, to the defense that Marco Rubio laid out there, that Donald Trump lays out, it is always about the substance. It is always about the egregious misconduct that these individuals may have engaged in at some point in the past. That is not the issue Here, the issue is about compliance with the Constitution, about process. The American legal system is all about process, regardless of substance. It doesn't matter how bad you are, you've got to comply with the Constitution. That includes the due process clause. So what happens when you don't? Well, judges have some power available at their fingertips. They are often loathe to use that power. But I think that if the administration is flagrantly violating court orders, some of the things that they can do is to impose sanctions. They can hold someone in contempt. Now, maybe they're not going to hold President Trump in contempt. But, for example, Judge Murphy recently got declarations from immigration officials who gave sworn statements. These are people who were involved in this activity. He's asked for a name of all of the individuals involved in these decisions because he wants to bring them in, give them an opportunity to show cause why they should not be held in contempt. And some of the things he could do is he could jail them, he could fine them, he could even refer the case to the Justice Department for a criminal investigation. Now, I think one of the weaknesses there is that I'm not holding my breath anytime soon for Pam Bondi to initiate those criminal charges. And then, of course, Jason, the ultimate weapon here is it's our constitutional system is a game of rock, paper, scissors. And the third player in all of this is Congress. And they have an oversight responsibility. They also have ultimately an impeachment responsibility if the president violates court orders.
- [26:41]
Jason Johnson
So I'm going to do a quick switch here. We have like two, two seconds. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem just sent a letter to Harvard basically telling them that they can't have international students anymore. Is there any legal grounds for that to be constitutional? Are we just seeing another example of authoritarian behavior by this administration Very quickly?
- [27:02]
Barbara McQuaid
Yeah, I don't think this is going to hold. You know, the basis for this is if you get federal funds, you have to comply with the law. And I think that there are procedural Administrative Procedure act issues here. I'm sure Harvard will be amending its complaint to add a claim for this latest action by Kristi Noem.
- [27:19]
Jason Johnson
Thank you so much. Robert McQuaid, thank you so much for joining us this evening.
- [27:23]
Barbara McQuaid
Thank you, Jason.
- [27:25]
Jason Johnson
Ignorance, arrogance, bigotry, and conspiracy theories. That's what Trump's second term has brought into the Oval Office. And it was on full display yesterday in his meeting with South African President Cyril Ramaphosa. We'll discuss that next with President Obama's U.S. ambassador to South Africa, Patrick Gaspard. World leaders beware what was once a chance for a friendly photo op and Oval Office pool spray now carries the risk of an ambush. We saw it earlier this year when Donald Trump and J.D. vance, in a calculated ambush, berated Ukraine's Vladimir Zelensky in front of the entire world. Yesterday, South African President Cyril Ramaphosa joined the growing list of foreign leaders dragged through the circus that is Donald Trump's approach to foreign policy. While Jordan's King Abdullah, France's Emmanuel Macron, Canada's Mark Carney, Britain's Keir Starmer walked into a slightly more subtle ambush. They too found themselves navigating Donald Trump's ego driven spectacle. Because we now have a president who not only insults allies from the comfort of his bully pulpit, but uses it to spread lies that once lived in the dark corners of the Internet. President Ramaphosa, who grew up under apartheid, sat as Donald Trump confronted him with the false claims of white genocide in South Africa. A false claim, completely false claim that Elon Musk, who was in the Oval Office yesterday, has publicly repeated and spread on social media. Having watched those before him, the South African president came prepared by bringing along two white South African golfers. Yes, like a toddler, he figured that he would pacify Donald Trump by having people talk about his favorite game. That is how foreign leaders now have to approach the United States president. It's pathetic and weak. But as our next guest, former US Ambassador to South Africa Patrick Gaspard posted. This meeting between Trump and Ramaphosa has devolved into a shameful spectacle. South African leaders came with their golf diplomacy and Trump savaged him with some fake snuff film about violent rhetoric. Engaging on Trump's terms never goes well for anyone. This is shameful. Joining us now is Patrick Gaspard, distinguished Senior Fellow at the center for American Progress. He served as the United States Ambassador to South Africa during Obama's second term. Patrick, it's great to talk to you again. I wish it were under slightly less, less dire circumstances. So I want to start with this because I think this is really important. I just got back from Cape Town. I spent about two weeks in Cape Town. I just got back last week. So I was literally there watching local news coverage of the Africana refugees and their Nike shoes and designer T shirts and Louis Vuitton bags get shipped to the United States at taxpayers expense while the Trump administration blocks other refugees from coming here. Let's just talk just first about this idea of white genocide. Why is Donald Trump so obsessed with this idea when it is very clear from the condition of these refugees and everybody in South Africa and everybody else around the world that this is not happening.
- [30:39]
Patrick Gaspard
Jason, thanks for having me on. I'm incredibly envious that you got to be in Cape Town two weeks ago. I wish I were there. Instead, to understand why Donald Trump put on that humiliating spectacle yesterday and why he's so obsessed with this white genocide meme of his. You just have to appreciate the domestic political audience that Donald Trump is always playing to. Even though he was sitting having a bilateral conversation with a foreign head of state, he's trying to have a conversation with Tucker Carlson's audience all the time. He's somebody who tries, with a religiosity, never to move far away from his base. And let's be clear what his base is as he went on and on about white genocide yesterday, social media, not just the periphery of it, but the center that's dominating the mainstream conversation on the right wing, were all frothing that this guy was standing up for white Christianity and he was all that stood between them and existential cliff. He has spread this for years now, starting back in around 2017 or so. Amplified Fan by Elon Musk but always, always they're speaking to a domestic audience. And you'll forgive me for picking up some of Hillary Clinton's language from 2016. But there are a basket full of deplorables that are inside of his constituency and he has consistently spoken to them as a racial arsonist. That's what we saw on display yesterday in our Oval Office.
- [32:04]
Jason Johnson
And this is what's key, and I want your sort of thoughts on this. Elon Musk is from South Africa. He's from Pretoria. His, his grandfather moved there because he liked apartheid. I mean, it's one thing to grow up in the country, but his grandfather moved the family there cuz he wanted them to grow up and live under apartheid. And interestingly enough, Elon Musk actually has less influence in his own home country than he does here. For all of his wealth. And there aren't a lot of billionaires in South Africa, he could have a lot more power down there, but they literally would not let him have this level of influence because they know that his primary motivation is white nationalism and white supremacy. So from your perspective, how dangerous is it to our domestic foreign policy that you have someone like Elon Musk whispering into the ears of the President, United States and guiding our foreign policy?
- [32:52]
Patrick Gaspard
This is why I admire you, Jason. You're always spot on in picking out exactly what the real threads are here to pull out. There are two levels with Elon Musk. Yes, he absolutely believes in the superiority that he's trying to advance. He believes it with a fervor. All the work that he's doing to try to colonize Mars, the way he talks about population trends on this planet and birth rates of white on this planet makes it really clear that there's a political, philosophical ideology that he's trying to carry to its ultimate fulfillment. That's one part of it. But the second part is, Jason, not only does he not have political influence in South Africa, he doesn't have business footprint in South Africa. Elon Musk is trying to get Starlink into South Africa, and he's trying to do that by overriding regulatory framework in the country that allows for equity in ownership of businesses. So yesterday, if you listen closely, the South African white billionaire Johann Rupert, raise the prospect to Donald Trump that all South Africa needs is the help of Elon Musk. And let's get Starluck in. There's always a grift at the end of the day with both Trump and Musk. So, yes, you get a little bit of white supremacy, but you also get the corruption and the grift. These things walk hand in hand.
- [34:09]
Jason Johnson
So that tandem using the White House to sort of push a particular Starling, it's like the most aggressive Verizon kiosk person you've ever met. And it's a ridiculous way to run foreign policy. Ambassador Pastor Gaspard, thank you so much for joining us this evening.
- [34:24]
Patrick Gaspard
Thank you so much for having me, Jason.
- [34:27]
Jason Johnson
Coming up this weekend will be five years since the murder, murder of George Floyd and the actions and rhetoric of the man in the White House are doing nothing to address systematic racism in America. That's next on the last word.
- [34:44]
Dr. Horton
Your new beginning starts now. Dr. Horton has new construction homes available in Ellensburg and throughout the greater Seattle area. With spacious floor plans, flexible living spaces, and home technology packages, you can enjoy more cozy moments and sweet memories in your beautiful new home. With new home communities opening in Ellensburg and throughout the Seattle area, Dr. Horton has the ideal home for you. Learn more@drhorton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder.
- [35:16]
Will Arnett
Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman, where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart, and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the SiriusXM app. Download it today.
- [35:52]
Nandi Egwu Onwu
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- [36:26]
Dr. Horton
Being Black in America Should Not Be.
- [36:28]
Jason Johnson
A Death Sentence we watched as a white officer.
- [36:35]
Will Arnett
Pressed his knee into the neck of a black man.
- [36:39]
Jason Johnson
When you hear someone calling for help, you are supposed to help. This officer failed in the most basic human sense. Being black in America should not be a death sentence. But nearly five years ago, that is exactly what Americans witnessed when they saw the cell phone video. Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin pressing his knee into the neck of the unarmed and gasping George Floyd for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. It triggered the largest protest movement in American history. Derek Chauvin was later convicted by a jury of murder. Donald Trump, who was president at the time George Floyd was murdered, publicly condemned his death. Like I said, broken clocks. But yesterday, the Justice Department announced a move to dismiss a police accountability agreement with Minneapolis that was negotiated under President Biden. The Department of Justice also announced it will also begin to dissolve a similar police consent decree in Louisville after the death of Breonna Taylor, as well as ending investigations of violation by police departments across the country. Benjamin Crump, the attorney for George Floyd's family, said, quote, the Department of Justice is not just rolling back reform, it is attempting to erase truth and contradicting the very principles for which justice stands. But Donald Trump is willing to stand up for the January 6th rioters and terrorists who stormed the Capitol. New York Times reports, quote, the Justice Department is discussing giving the relatives of Ashley Babbitt, an Air Force veteran killed by the police during the storming of the Capitol on January 6, 2021, about $5 million to settle a wrongful death lawsuit they brought against the government last year, according to two people familiar with the matter. The justice department prosecuted nearly 1600 people in connection with the January 6th terrorist attack. But on this first day in office, Donald Trump pardoned nearly all the people who attacked the Capitol and the police there on his behalf. Trump mob that carried a confederate flag in the United States Capitol. We know who Trump justice actually favors. Joining us now is national political reporter for the Washington Post, Toulouse Olu Rennifa thank you so much. He is a Pulitzer Prize winning co author of his name is George Floyd, One Man's Life and the Struggle for Racial Justice. Delouse, thank you so much for joining us this evening. I wanna start with this and I'm just gonna be candid. You're a black person, I'm a black person. We saw this racial reckoning occurring in the country over the last four or five years. What would you say is the biggest change that you have seen in your reporting, in your book that has happened in America since the George Floyd protest?
- [39:38]
Toulouse Olu Rennifa
Yeah, Jason, thanks so much for having me. And thanks for that introduction in which you really laid out what has happened, the difference between five years ago where the country sort of rallied around this idea of trying to root out systemic racism, and five years later we have a president who not only doesn't believe systemic racism exists, as you talked about earlier in the show, thinks that white people are the victims of racism. And so we have seen a major shift in the rhetoric, a major shift in the way that the federal government is addressing racial injustice. But it is important to note that at the state level and at the local level, there have been major changes as a result of George Floyd's death in which police officers and police departments have had to implement new changes, changes to the use of force. And that has happened at the local level and that has endured over these past five years. And so a lot of the work that the activists were doing and the protesters were doing five years ago has borne some fruit at the local level. We have not seen that at the federal level. Instead, we have seen instead a shift and a retrenchment and a move backwards and a move to try to erase some of the history. And what happened five years ago when the country came together to try to solve some of the big problems of racial injustice that have existed for a long time now.
- [40:53]
Jason Johnson
I didn't have a complete watch, right. I don't usually carry one, but I would say that the reconciliation process was about 18 months, right? Literally by the summer of 2022, late 2021, you already had politicians saying, all right, enough of this. We're not going to do it. We don't care about bumper stocks, we don't care about police cameras, et cetera, et cetera. What would you say and talk sort of in your book about how local departments who have made changes have resisted the backlash because there has been a backlash to the protests about George Floyd's murder. It's literally animating this entire Department of Justice. How have Local departments said, hey, no, we're going to continue to move forward with these reforms even in the face of backlash.
- [41:40]
Toulouse Olu Rennifa
Well, it's important to note that grievance politics is powerful. It is effective in many ways. And some of these local departments have had to stand up to the power of grievance politics and sort of white identity politics that we've seen at the national level. And we have seen police chiefs, we've seen local communities stand up against that in part because people that are closer to their communities know that people across the political spectrum, across the demographic spectrum, they want good policing. A lot of these laws are based in evidence based practices to get policing to be better. And things like chokeholds and no knock warrants, effectively and based on evidence are not the way to protect the rights of citizens, are not the best forms of policing. And so when the rubber meets the road, it's about getting better policing, which is something that almost everyone wants. And so when you take it away from the national grievance politics and you focus on local communities that are trying to do the right thing and a lot of police officers that are trying to do the right thing, having body cameras, having people who are specialists in mental health respond instead of people with guns and tasers, and in many cases that helps to de escalate and helps to make sure that everyone gets home safe. And so I think the local officials have been able to do a lot of progress and reforming. But when it comes to the political side of things, that's where we've seen the real changes.
- [43:09]
Jason Johnson
Thank you. Toulouse Olorunipa, thank you so much for joining us this evening.
- [43:13]
Toulouse Olu Rennifa
Thank you.
- [43:15]
Jason Johnson
Tonight's last word is next. On this day, May 22, 1980. 45 years ago, America got a new obsession. Puckman, or as it came to be known in our country, Pac Man. Millions of young people around the country became obsessed with guiding a yellow pizza shaped mouth around eating pellets while avoiding brightly colored ghosts. For context, the day before Pac man debuted, the Empire Strikes Back was released in theaters. Call Me by Blondie was the number one on the Billboard charts. Sesame street was still free on PBS. And Donald Trump was just a 30 something millionaire living in his daddy's shadow. I point this out because today, in a world that seems colder, darker, less optimistic and steeped in a fear of technology that at one point a little yellow blob on a screen brought us a tremendous amount of joy and an escape from the drudgery of daily life. But like most things, Pac man was not immune from the cynicism of Generation X, Pac man became an easy symbol for political action committees, or PACs, that are essentially slush funds for campaign largess. Pac man was spun off into a million different versions, sequels upon sequels. Some good, like Ms. Pac Man. But most just money grabs. Breakfast cereals, action figures, dolls. Heck, by 2016, the Trump campaign created a campaign commercial featuring Hillary Clinton as Ms. Pac man, eating up all of her emails, turning the first female to lead a video game into an attack on the first woman to win her party's nomination for president. Far from a fun way to spend an afternoon with quarters and friends that we remembered as kids, Pac man, over time became an avatar for the existential greed of the 1980s, the emptiness of consumerism, and the never ending need to get more. However, on this 45th birthday, I see Pac man in a different, more positive light. Maybe the original way that the game was intended to be played as both a life and political metaphor. If Pac man can be commandeered by the right, it can also be a vision for the left. The Democratic Party and much of the American left have felt like they're on their heels since Trump took office. Really, since he came down those stairs in 2015. And many in this country feel that we're in a perpetual maze, going around being chased by enemies that never seem to tire. But instead of looking at our current environment as a maze you can't get out of, consider the fact that you get to try every single day to beat the game. That politics, like Pac man, is never actually over. You can keep playing and playing and playing, and you never have to give up. In fact, as long as you can keep shoving quarters into the machine, since all politics requires at least a little bit of money, there's a chance that you can move ahead, grab a power pellet every cycle and make a difference. And instead of being chased by ghosts of the political past, you can actually turn the tables on them. Heck, if you work hard enough, you can turn red, pink and light blue states into dark blue states. So on this Pac man birthday, whether you're celebrating with a special Google search engine or Pac man edition from Krispy Kreme, or playing on a retro machine at home like I did, remember, we can win at the game of politics just like you win at Pac Man. Keep chomping, keep running. And if it doesn't work out this.
- [46:35]
Dr. Horton
Time.
- [46:39]
Jason Johnson
You can unplug and start again tomorrow. That is tonight's last word.
- [46:45]
Dr. Horton
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