← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
DOJ prosecutors resign over order to drop charges against NYC Mayor Eric Adams
00:41:08
Tonight on The Last Word: Six prosecutors resign after refusing to drop charges against NYC Mayor Eric Adams. Plus, a former USAID official speaks out against the Trump-Musk funding freeze. Also, the GOP advances a budget plan that calls for healthcare cuts. And Elon Musk meets with India’s Prime Minister in Washington D.C. Andrew Weissmann, Sarah Charles, Rep. Brendan Boyle, and Norm Ornstein join Lawrence O’Donnell.
Loading summary
Transcript68 lines
- [00:00]
USAA Advertisement
Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USAA auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today. Restrictions apply.
- [00:13]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Usaa.
- [00:16]
Rachel Maddow
Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows now ad free plus ad free Listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. And all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Velshi Band Book Club and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [00:46]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Now it's time for the Last word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
- [00:49]
I have checked you out on Blue sky because I'm there as Lawrence O'Donnell on Blue Sky. Andrew Weissman's on Blue sky and he's gonna be our first guest tonight. It's a Blue sky night here.
- [01:00]
Plenty to talk to Andrew about tonight. My God, this is dny.
- [01:05]
Yeah, there's a bit. Yeah. The. The era of principled resignation is upon us, Rachel, once again. And I gotta say, as a kid who saw it in the so called Saturday Night Massacre in the Nixon administration, it was the most inspiring turn because when it happened, it seemed very dark. It didn't seem like it was going to have an effect. It seemed like that's the end of the investigation. It also seemed br for Attorney General Elliot Richardson to make the choice he made. But another prosecutor was appointed and that prosecutor went all the way. Richard Nixon was driven out. And so in the totality of the experience, you know, kids in high school at the time just thought they lived in a country where, yes, the rule of law prevails and no one's above the law. And we had a right to feel that way for the rest of the 20th century. It had a really, it was a good feeling for what we thought was forever turned out to be a long time, but not quite forever.
- [02:04]
Although we remember the Saturday Night Massacre because of what Nixon tried to do. But mostly what we remember it for was the heroism of Elliot Richardson and the other, right and of the men at the Justice Department then who stood up and said, that is an unprincipled thing and I'm not doing it and you're going to have to go through me if you want to do it. And that heroism stands no matter the outcome.
- [02:26]
Rachel Maddow
Right?
- [02:26]
Lawrence O'Donnell
This letter from the Acting U.S. attorney at SDNY to Attorney General Pam Bondi saying, I have been asked to do something unethical, wrong, against the rules and potentially against the law here. And I am not doing it. I'm not seeking to resign. I'm happy to stay in my job as long as you fix this. But if you don't fix this, I'm out and she's out. And no matter what happens with this case, that example of heroism lives. And it is the, that's where the moral ends here, because that's showing the country what values call on us to do sometimes, the kind of sacrifices that people will make to do the right thing for the country. And I don't know how this story will end. And I don't know what's going to happen to Eric Adams. We heard Kathy Hochul right here on this show tonight say that she is newly looking at her unique powers to potentially remove him as New York City mayor herself. I don't know how this is going to resolve, but what that U.S. attorney did at SDNY tonight, that's forever.
- [03:23]
Yeah. Danielle Sassoon's name takes its place on the wall of honor, which now has to be an imaginary wall at the current Justice Department with Elliot Richardson, with Archibald Cox, with the truly great principled people who have worked there and worked there through this kind of crisis.
- [03:42]
And she is a registered Republican. She is a Federalist Society member. She is an Anton Scalia clerk. She is a rock ribbed conservative. According to the New York Times tonight, she's also about to give birth in a couple of weeks. But like, you know, you never know, heroism comes in all colors and from all parts of the ideological number line. And we gotta take these mom moments when we have them because they're not only important to tell us something about that person, but they tell us something about us as a country. And they model the kind of behavior that we all need modeled for us at times to keep us on the straight and narrow.
- [04:13]
Rachel Maddow
Yeah.
- [04:14]
Lawrence O'Donnell
And that's exactly what guided my decisions about how to shape this hour tonight. The need to highlight this when we have it. I had to throw out everything I had planned for tonight once this happened, because this really is the kind of moment where Danielle Sassoon really deserves our attention tonight. And the principled people who resigned with her today due to watch this space.
- [04:38]
That's exactly right. Lawrence, thank you.
- [04:39]
Thanks, Rachel. Thank you. Well, tonight in Donald Trump's America, if an FBI agent sees someone committing a federal crime, that FBI agent is not allowed to intervene in any way, not allowed to flash a badge and make an arrest. That FBI agent is not allowed to investigate the crime being committed right before his eyes in Donald Trump's America, as long as the crime is being committed by the mayor of New York City. Since Monday, on What was the 21st day of the Trump political weaponization of the Justice Department, the Mayor of New York, Eric Adams, has known that the FBI is no longer allowed to investigate anything he does anywhere at any time. Just think about that. No one in American history, including past presidents, has ever had the benefit of the FBI being banned in writing from investigating that person. No one. So if this is one of those typical nights on the town for the self styled New York nightlife celebrity, Eric Adams, he will be at one of the city's most exclusive and expensive nightclubs until at least 2am that's standard for him. There have been more than twice as many mayors of New York than Presidents of the United States, because the city of New York is much older than the United States of America. In 360 years of New York mayors beginning in 1665, none of them have enjoyed the nightlife more than Eric Adams, including the most corrupt New York City mayors, like the notorious Jimmy Walker, who fled the city to avoid federal prosecution in 1932. Tonight may be an especially late night for the mayor because he has more to celebrate than he ever has before. Donald Trump's Justice Department put an order in writing on Monday saying there shall be no further targeting of Mayor Adams or additional investigative steps. No one in the Justice Department is allowed to investigate the Mayor of New York City as of Monday. And the Mayor of New York, who's already under federal indictment for crimes including bribery, has known since Monday that he can violate any federal law he wants now and there will not be an investigation. Cannot be an investigation. That order is in full force tonight and has been in full force all week. But another order issued in the same Justice Department memo on Monday has been defied by the prosecutor who received that order. That order from the Justice Department said, you are directed, as authorized by the Attorney General to dismiss the pending charges in United States v. Adams. That memo was sent from the acting Deputy Attorney General to the Acting U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York in Manhattan. The sender and the receiver of that memo personify what the Attorney General of the United States, Robert Jackson, meant when he said this in 1940. The prosecutor at his best is one of the most beneficient forces in our society. When he acts from malice or other base motives, he is one of the worst. That memo was sent by one of the worst to one of the Best. The acting deputy Attorney General is Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer, Emil Bovet. I sat behind Emile Bove for weeks when he was the number two defense counsel for Donald Trump in the criminal case where a Manhattan jury found Donald Trump guilty of 34 counts of business fraud. There is no reason to equate a criminal defense lawyer with the criminal defendant the lawyer represents. The criminal defense lawyer is one of the noble callings under the American system of justice. There was nothing in MB's representation of Donald Trump in that courtroom that gave me the slightest reason to disrespect his work in that room as a criminal defense lawyer. In fact, I thought Emil Bobay did a better job in that courtroom than the lead defense counsel, Todd Blanch, who Donald Trump has nominated for a position in the Justice Department that requires Senate confirmation. Mil Bobe previously served as a federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, where he was, we discovered this week, an enthusiastic supporter of the investigations and prosecutions of the January 6th attackers at the Capitol. Now that he is working in Donald Trump's Justice Department, he has made it his personal mission to search out, find and attempt to fire any FBI agent or federal prosecutor who worked on any of the January 6 prosecutions, which he personally enthusiastically supported inside the Justice Department before he left the department in 2022. Today, the Acting U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, 38 year old Danielle Sassoon, resigned after refusing to ask the judge to dismiss the criminal case against Mayor Adams. And so the principled resignation is back. There is nothing quite like the principled resignation in American politics. They have been rare because periods of crisis in government have been rare. Most of the 20th century sailed by without a principled resignation of note, until what the headline writers called the Saturday night massacre. In 1973, when Republican President Richard Nixon ordered his Republican Attorney General, Elliot Richardson, to fire his friend, the special prosecutor, Archibald Cox, who was investigating Richard Nixon. Attorney General Richardson resigned instead of firing Archibald Cox, and then the Deputy Attorney General resigned instead of carrying out the President's order. And then President Nixon found Solicitor General Robert Bork willing to do that firing. But the whole scheme didn't work. A new special prosecutor was appointed and Richard Nixon was driven out of office. And the honorable people who resigned or were fired in that so called Saturday Night Massacre lived the rest of their lives in public honor because of that moment. Archibald Cox was revered for the rest of his life in legal circles because of that attempt that Richard Nixon made to fire him, which eventually succeeded the surge of confidence in the American judicial system and prosecutorial system was something that you really had to live through then to even begin to comprehend or feel. Kids who were in high school would live the rest of the 20th century with the full confidence that no one is above the law, the full confidence that the principled resignation is more powerful than a corrupt president. There have been some relatively minor and little noticed principled resignations at other times. Two Assistant Secretaries of Health and Human Services, Mary Jo Bain and Peter Edelman, resigned in 1996 over President Clinton's embrace of a Republican welfare bill that President Clinton signed into law. Those resignations had no effect, which in a way made them even more noble. Possibly the effect of a principled resignation is not the point. We have seen the principled resignation become one of the cracks in the wall that took down a president. But those resignations would still be important even if they didn't drive President Nixon from office. Because the point of the principled resignation is, is the principal. Yesterday, Danielle Sassoon sent an eight page letter to the Attorney General, Pamela Joe Bondi, asking for a meeting with her. It was a letter from the lead prosecutor in the criminal case against the Mayor of New York asking the Attorney General to have a meeting about the case after ML Bovey ordered Danielle Sassoon to have the case dismissed. Danielle Sassoon knew how her letter would be received by the Attorney General. She knew that her letter was filled with brave defiance, principled defiance of M Il Beauvais and Donald Trump's desires. And so the last line of Daniel Sassoon's letter to the Attorney General says, in the event you are unwilling to meet or to reconsider the directive, in light of the problems raised by Mr. Bove's memo, I am prepared to offer my resignation. It has been and continues to be my honor to serve as a prosecutor in the Southern District of New York. It turns out Danielle Sassoon's last act as the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York was to write an eight page indictment of Emil Bove. Her letter says, quote, the evidence against Adams proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed federal crimes and that to ask a judge to dismiss the case would be, quote, inconsistent with my ability and duty to process federal crimes without fear or favor and to advance good faith arguments before the courts. In other words, she couldn't go into a courtroom and lie to a judge in order to get the case dismissed against the Mayor of New York, because in her view, that's exactly what Emily Bove was asking her to do ordering her to do. Knowing that Attorney General Bondi was unlikely to know anything about her. Danielle Sassoon flashed her conservative credentials in the letter, noting that she served as a clerk for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who was then the most conservative member of the Supreme Court. She didn't mention the Wall Street Journal op ed piece that she wrote at the end of her first week as the U.S. attorney on February 2, 2025, sharply criticizing President Biden's commutation of the sentences of almost 2,500 nonviolent offenders. She didn't mention that she's a member of the Federalist Society, a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard College and Yale Law School. She noted the two reasons Emil Bove gave for dismissing the case against Eric Adams, and she said, I cannot advance either argument in good faith. Mr. Povey proposes dismissing the charges against Adams in return for his assistance in enforcing the federal immigration laws, analogizing to the prisoner exchange in which the United States freed notorious Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout in return for an American prisoner in Russia. She quotes the Justice Department manual saying, the legal judgments of the Department of Justice must be impartial and insulated from political influence. She quoted Attorney General Bundy's memo to Justice Department employees saying they must not allow political influence in their decision making, saying, in your words, the Department of Justice will not tolerate abuses of the criminal justice process, coercive behavior or other forms of misconduct. Dismissal of the indictment for no other reason than to influence Adams mayoral decision making would be all three. Although Mr. Bove disclaimed any intention to exchange leniency in the case for Adams assistance in enforcing federal law. That is the nature of the bargain laid bare in Mr. Bovet's memo. That is especially so given Mr. Bovet's comparison to the Bout prisoner exchange, which was quite expressly a quid pro quo, but one carried out by the White House, not by the prosecutors in charge of Bout's case. I attended a meeting on January 31, 2025, with Mr. Bove, Adams counsel and members of my office. Adams attorneys repeatedly urged what amounted to a quid pro quo, indicating that Adams would be in a position to insist with the Department's enforcement priorities only if the indictment were dismissed. Mr. Bobe admonished a member of my team who took notes during that meeting and directed the collection of those notes at the end of at the meeting's conclusion. Taking notes in meetings is what lawyers do. They take notes during phone calls. They take notes all the time. You want your lawyer taking notes all the time. Why did ML Bove fear those notes? In his reply to Daniel Sassoon today, Emil Bove claimed that he seized those notes because he's afraid of links. In that case, no Trump lawyer in the Justice Department can ever be taking notes. According to the Emil Bove rules on notes, John Yeltsa soon revealed that there was more to come in the case against Eric Adams. We have proposed a superseding indictment that would add an obstruction conspiracy count based on evidence that Adams destroyed and instructed others to destroy evidence and provide false information to the FBI. And that would add further factual allegations regarding his participation in a fraudulent straw donor scheme. Danielle Sassoon reminded the Attorney General that it is not up to the prosecutors to dismiss a case that is already in court. Only a judge can do that, Danielle Sassoon warned the Attorney General. The assigned district judge, the Honorable Dale E. Ho, appears likely to conduct a searching inquiry in this case. That means it is very possible that a searching inquiry will involve the judge forcing M. Bovet into the courtroom to try to defend his order to dismiss the case on political grounds, purely political grounds, Danielle Sassoon wrote. I remain baffled by the rushed and superficial process by which this decision was reached in seeming collaboration with Adams counsel without my direct input on the ultimate stated rationales for dismissal. In his response to her letter, Emil Bovet put all the assistant US Attorneys who worked on the Adams case on administrative leave, quote, pending investigations by the Office of the Attorney General and the Office of Professional Responsibility, both of which will also evaluate your conduct. The Adams case was ordered transferred to the justice department in Washington, D.C. by Emil Bove, where it would have been assigned to the Public Integrity Section. And the two attorneys leading that section, John Keller and Kevin Driscoll, then promptly resigned today, the New York Times reports. Several hours later, three other lawyers in the unit also resigned, according to people familiar with the developments. So that's a total of six in one day. The principled resignations in the Justice Department tonight include six principled lawyers, Danielle Sassoon, John Keller, Kevin Driscoll, and three others. They follow the principled resignations of David Lebrech, who was the acting Assistant Secretary of the treasury and the department assigned to payments, who resigned when Elon Musk seized control of the United States Treasury. And there is one firing that should be counted in effect in the principled resignation column, and that is the inspector General of the United States Agency International Development, Paul Martin, who wrote a critical report on Monday of what Elon Musk is doing to usaid, whereupon he was promptly Fired the next day. The principled resignation is now upon us. How many more? Leading off our discussion tonight is Andrew Weissman, former FBI general counsel and former chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of New York. He's also an MSNBC legal analyst. And Andrew, I want you to make every point that's going through your mind about this, but I just want to begin with the part of this order that says no one's allowed to investigate the mayor of New York City, who is already demonstrably corrupt in so many ways. Question remaining for a jury, is that criminally corrupt? I've never seen or heard of a prosecutor ordering no investigations of an individual, including people who were cooperating, witnesses of theirs, including people in the Witness Protection Program who they're protecting otherwise.
- [21:26]
Andrew Weissman
So the normal rule when you have a criminal case and when I started out, is you investigate up to and through the trial. You never stop investigating. The only time I could think of it is if you're investigating and at some point your supervisor says, you know what? There's no case there. That's not what happened here. Here there is a case. So this is remarkable. And to Danielle's point about a quid pro quo, and it is, this is something we talked about a few days ago where, when this news broke, where the dismissal that is being sought by Amel Beauvais is without prejudice. The idea is the sword of Damocles over his head. They have him on a choke collar. And so he knows at any moment this can be revisited. In fact, Amel Beauvais letter says that. And we're seeing it already. If you're seeing what did they buy with that on Monday, the reports are that Eric Adams met with his entire senior team, their general counsels, and said there's going to be no adverse talk about Donald Trump. You cannot mention him adversely. Second, we're getting reports today that he has said that ICE can now enforce and go into Rikers to arrest people for immigration offenses.
- [22:55]
Lawrence O'Donnell
And just that is in a meeting. He's in a meeting today in his office with Homans, the guy running ice, making that deal with him today, the same day that the U.S. attorney's resigning.
- [23:05]
Andrew Weissman
And Lawrence, here's the kicker that is against New York law. The mayor of the city of New York, and this is where I'd say, Kathy Hochul, are you listening? The mayor of the city of New York today said that ICE can do something that the city Council has prohibited. How? And you're wondering how, Gee, I wonder, like connect the dots. Why is he doing that, he has a choke collar on. And the effective mayor of the city of New York is Donald Trump, who no one voted for to be mayor. The one thing I want to sort of underline for people is how unusual this is in terms of what we're seeing. You had to go back to. And I also. I'm sort of old enough to go back to the Saturday Night Massacre. It does not happen. The only time I can really think of it, other than the Saturday Night massacre, was Trump 1.0, where prosecutors resigned in the Roger Stone case because of what they were being ordered to do. Now, within weeks of Donald Trump retaking the White House, we are seeing a sort of I am Spartacus moment. It is Danielle Session deserves all the credit you gave her, but it's wrong to think that it's just her. It is people, the people behind her. In the Southern District of New York, I have numerous friends and colleagues and former colleagues who are totally supportive of this, regardless of political persuasion. Who are prosecutors. You have all of the people at the FBI who are resisting the Emile Beauvais sort of mass roundup of people who participated in the January 6th case. And you have the people at Main justice, the lawyers there. I used to be one myself, who also the entire leadership of the Public Integrity Section was like, we are of all people in the Public Integrity Section. They are not going to participate in a political order. So you really are seeing not just one person, and it's not about just the Southern District of New York. You are seeing people in all parts of the department, the FBI, Main justice in the field, saying, not doing it before you go.
- [25:22]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Didn't you think after the Saturday Night Massacre, 1973, that it was incredibly dramatic and it all played out and then Nixon's gone. And one thing I thought literally until the Trump era was that can never happen again. That'll never happen again. No one else will ever have to do that. An attorney general will never have to resign, because no president will ever follow in Nixon's footsteps like this.
- [25:46]
Andrew Weissman
Absolutely. But I would remind people the way I felt in Trump 1.0, which was Trump, the first thing that you saw was the first iteration of the Muslim ban. That was, in my view, blatantly illegal. And with the appointment of Robert Mueller in May, there was a real sense of the rule of law still exists. And now this is what you're seeing because there are enough people who act out of principle. And I think the thing that is taking, I would suspect, Emil Beauvais, Pamela Bondi, and the White House by surprise is, you know what, there are a lot of people in this country who act out of principle. Final point on this. You'll remember I keep on raising this. We had a trial of Paul Manafort. We had a sort of strong Republican. And she said, I left my MAGA hat in the car. I told the judge that I was going to base my verdict on the facts and the law. And that's what I did. Because there are people in this country who will act out of principle.
- [26:48]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah, she found a good she was on this program. She was just exactly what you're hoping the juror would be. Andrew Weissman, thank you very much for starting us off tonight. The most important testimony delivered in Congress this week was from a former USAID official, Sarah Charles, who will join us next.
- [27:08]
Rachel Maddow
MSNBC presents Main justice each week on their podcast, veteran lawyers Andrew Weissman and Mary McCord break down the latest developments inside the Trump administration's Department of Justice.
- [27:20]
Andrew Weissman
The administration doesn't necessarily want to be.
- [27:22]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Questioned on any of its policy.
- [27:24]
Andrew Weissman
I think what we are seeing is Project 2025 in action. This is it coming to fruition.
- [27:31]
Rachel Maddow
Main justice subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content. The first 100 days, bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.
- [27:51]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Now is the time, so we're gonna do it.
- [27:53]
Rachel Maddow
Providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.
- [27:56]
Lawrence O'Donnell
How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country?
- [28:02]
Rachel Maddow
The Rachel Maddow show weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. MSNBC presents a new original podcast hosted by Jen Psaki. Each week she and her guests explore how the Democratic Party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next.
- [28:20]
Lawrence O'Donnell
There's probably both messages and policy issues, but as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is, do you think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?
- [28:30]
Rachel Maddow
The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content.
- [28:41]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Today, during a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on the United States Agency for International Development, Democratic Congressman of California Brad Sherman said this There's a sad incident. 71 year old PEI Cao Lao. She was able to survive and flee from Myanmar to Thailand. She was in a camp with over 10,000 people. They cut off the money and they cut off her oxygen and she died. And no future Waiver is going to bring her back to life. Yesterday, Sarah Charles, the former head of USAID's Bureau for Humanitarian Assistance, testified to a group of Senate Democrats.
- [29:28]
Sarah Charles
For any of you that have traveled to see USAID programs in action, you may have seen a nutrition center treating severely malnourished children. It is truly a horrific sight. Children particularly susceptible to disease in environments with poor water and sanitation, maybe without access to vaccines, are particularly vulnerable to wasting what we call the severest forms of malnutrition. It takes children quite quickly. Even those children who don't die can have permanent brain damage. But the miracle of malnutrition is it can be treated quite inexpensively and quite easily, largely with products that are produced using peanuts grown in the United States, produced in manufacturing facilities in Georgia and Rhode Island. Highly nutritious food that are a gift from the American people to severely malnourished children around the world.
- [30:35]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Joining us now is Sarah Charles. Sarah, thank you very much for making the time to join us. When I heard your testimony yesterday with so much detail that's so important, could you tell us more about what it means to starving children? There's like 700,000 just in Sudan alone and how actually easy it is for us to we know how to do this intervention. We have paid for it. The money's already been spent and yet it's been stopped by Elon Musk.
- [31:13]
Sarah Charles
That's right. One of the greatest gifts that the American people have given the world is our commitment to treat malnutrition around the world, particularly targeting the most vulnerable, the youngest children, those that are in war zones that are susceptible to disease. The American people for a long time with bipartisan support, have been incredibly proud of this gift to the children, to children around the world.
- [31:47]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yesterday was your first time speaking only to Democratic senators because Republican senators will not allow a hearing on this. And so the Democrats had to set up their own session. So how kind of shocking is it to you that this suddenly stopped being a bipartisan effort? Because it is veryit's a very popular program with Midwestern farmers, for example, who are reliable Republican voters. And they're senators used to be.
- [32:18]
Sarah Charles
It's been one of the many shocking elements of the last three weeks. These are programs that have been supported by Republicans and Democrats in Congress for years. There's a bipartisan Food Security Caucus that has a large number of members both on the House and the Senate side. Former I'm from South Carolina. Former South Carolina Governor David Beasley led the World Food Program during the first Trump administration and did a phenomenal job of bringing along many members of Congress to see these programs in action, created many converts, supporters of these programs. And we've seen in just the last three weeks vicious and malicious campaign of lies to paint what is really the best of the American people, the generosity of the American people as something.
- [33:15]
Lawrence O'Donnell
I think we have. I hope we can get Sarah's video back. We have a photograph of Sarah Charles with Samantha Powers. I think we can put that up. Do we have it? They're at a feeding center in East Africa. These generally the photographs taken in those situations don't show the starving babies out of respect. And so these usually are mothers who they're speaking with and meeting there. We've lost our connection with Sarah Charles. Thank her very, very much for joining us tonight and for the work she's done. And coming up at the top of this hour, after 12 hours of a House Budget Committee meeting, the Budget Committee passed their budget resolution giving Donald TRUMP A $4 trillion increase in the debt limit. That's the first thing Republicans are doing, is voting to increase the debt by $4 trillion. The top Democrat on the committee, con Brendan Boyle, will join us next.
- [34:18]
USAA Advertisement
The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA auto insurance, you'll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today. Restrictions apply.
- [34:34]
Rachel Maddow
Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [34:41]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Let's get up to speed. We've got some breaking news right now.
- [34:44]
Rachel Maddow
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [34:45]
Lawrence O'Donnell
There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.
- [34:50]
Rachel Maddow
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.
- [35:14]
Lawrence O'Donnell
I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.
- [35:19]
Rachel Maddow
Previews of our podcasts and documentaries, plus written perspectives from the newsmakers themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. Get the best of MSNBC all in one place. Sign up for msnbc daily@msnbc.com.
- [35:36]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Nearly 12 hours after the House Budget Committee began debating the Republican budget plan, the top Democrat on the committee, Congressman Brendan.
- [35:47]
Brendan Boyle
Each of our amendments was a direct effort to shield the American people from the reckless cuts embedded in this proposal. Cuts that will hurt the most vulnerable while giving trillions of dollars of handouts to the ultra rich. We fought to protect Medicaid and Medicare, ensuring that seniors, low income families, children and people with disabilities don't see their health care stripped away. We work to preserve the ACA tax credits, which allow millions of Americans to afford health coverage, and to defend Social Security, a bedrock promise that ensures retirees can live with dignity after a lifetime of work. Despite the clear benefits of these proposals, Republicans oppose all of them. Instead of choosing to protect the American people, they chose to protect billionaires and corporations. Let's be clear about what is at stake. House Republicans are once again betraying the middle class of this country and those who aspire to be in it.
- [36:57]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He's the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee, also a member of the House House Ways and Means Committee. Congressman Boyle, I'm trying to feign surprise that the party that is constantly hammering about the increase in the national debt and refusing to ever support and fight in every way a debt ceiling increase when there's a Democratic president, the very first thing, very first thing they want to do is increase the national debt by $4 trillion.
- [37:30]
Brendan Boyle
Yeah, that's exactly right, Lawrence. I've said previously in this committee a couple years ago, you can always tell when there's a Democrat in the White House because it's the only time Republicans pretend to care about the national debt. But then the very moment there is a Republican in the White House and Republicans have control of Congress, their agenda is add to the national debt in order to finance tax cuts, most of which go to the richest 1%. That was the case eight years ago, as the case in the Bush era. And here it is the case today where they just passed after 12 consecutive hours of debate in which the Democratic side vigorously fought back, offering more than 30amendments. In the end, however, no Republicans joined with us. And so they passed their reckless, I believe, immoral budget blueprint, which provides for $4.5 trillion of tax cuts that mostly go to the richest 1%. It's financed by an increase in the debt, but it's also financed by $880 billion worth of cuts to Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act.
- [38:37]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah, and those aren't specified quite yet. They'll be specified in the budget reconciliation bill, which is the package that completes this legislative exercise. And today you were just trying to get in writing. When the reconciliation package comes out, it's not going to cut Medicaid. It's not going to cut health care, and they wouldn't do that.
- [39:00]
Brendan Boyle
Yeah, that's exactly right. One of my Democratic colleagues offered an amendment which if they were sincere in saying they wouldn't cut Medicaid, wouldn't cut Medicare, they should have been the first ones to sign up for our amendment. They had every opportunity to make clear that we were apparently wrong, that they wouldn't cut Medicare. But of course, they showed that, in fact, we were right and they opposed our amendment. So based on the instructions that this resolution gives, and I know it gets a little complicated when talking about reconciliation, but the bottom line is there is no way for them to achieve the cuts to programs that are listed in their reconciliation blueprint without $880 billion worth of cuts to Medicaid and the Affordable Care act, in addition to hundreds of billions of dollars of cuts to other social programs, all in furtherance of their only agenda item. They care about massive tax cuts for the richest 1%.
- [39:58]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Is there anything protected in this budget resolution other than the tax cuts?
- [40:04]
Brendan Boyle
You might not be surprised to learn, Lawrence, the answer to your question is no. It is remarkable, although neither of us are surprised, recognized the staggering hypocrisy from the same crowd who spent the last four years crying crocodile tears about deficit and debt. The first opportunity they have to deliver for their billionaire donors. That's what's in the agenda.
- [40:29]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Well, it's not over yet. We'll see how reconciliation goes. Congressman Brendan Boyle, we're going to need you a lot between now and then. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
- [40:37]
Brendan Boyle
Thank you.
- [40:37]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Thank you. Coming up, Donald Trump was once again humiliated in the Oval Office by Elon Musk, even though Musk wasn't there. That's next. Elon Musk manages to embarrass Donald Trump in the Oval Office even when Musk isn't there. When Elon Musk met with Prime Minister Modi earlier today, did he do so as an American CEO or did he do so as a representative of the U.S. government? Are you talking about me? No.
- [41:10]
Andrew Weissman
Elon Musk. Elon I don't know.
- [41:13]
Lawrence O'Donnell
He doesn't know. Joining us now is congressional historian Norm Ornstein. He's an emeritus scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. Norm Musk commandeered the vice president's residence and sat there like a vice president with Modi today. He has a lot of business interests in India. He huge market for Starlink and other enterprises of his. And you'll notice he doesn't have A kid crawling on his shoulders. He's showing the Prime Minister at least that respect. I don't know. I suspect he had some business interests in mind.
- [41:49]
Norm Ornstein
You know, it's all about the grift, Lawrence. And the fact that Donald Trump shrugged his shoulders about whether Elon Musk was operating as a private citizen or in his quasi official capacity tells you everything you need to know about the lack of ethics and about the unconcern with people feathering their own nests, lining their own pockets at the expense of the American people. But, you know, it's not even close to the most shocking thing that we've seen even today. It's just disgraceful. I wanna make a couple of comments on what Brendan Boyle said, and he's absolutely right. We have to remember that this will not be the last increase they will demand on the national debt next year. The huge tax cuts for the rich that Trump got enacted in 2017 expire. They will not let them expire. That will add trillions more to the debt and they will be absolutely unconcerned with what happens as long as the billionaires and the multinational corporations get what they want. And of course, in return, Trump and his billionaire buddies will get even more in kickbacks. We are really not dealing with anything that comes close to recognizing what we expect out of government and what we expect out of just basic ethics. It's just appalling.
- [43:13]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah. And of course, as this budget process goes forward, it's not going to be necessarily easy to get this thing through. And once we get to the reconciliation stage, then we will have have the actual legislative proposals of exactly what they are going to cut.
- [43:30]
Norm Ornstein
And remember that Republicans are almost certainly going to need Democrats. And what they're going to say is, we will have a shutdown on March 14. We will default unless you provide us the votes. It would be wrong for Democrats, I believe, morally wrong to provide a single vote for what they're trying to do. That will devastate the national economy and of course, cause turmoil all around the world. And what Democrats need to do is to make sure, starting now, that people understand Republicans have all the reins of power. If they want to enact reckless policies that destroy the safety net, damage average Americans all to feather the nest and fatten the wallets of the richest among us, then they have the responsibility to do it. And it would be wrong for Democrats to enable them, period.
- [44:28]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Norm Orenstein, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
- [44:31]
Norm Ornstein
Absolutely, Lawrence.
- [44:32]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Every time. We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word.
- [44:39]
USAA Advertisement
Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USAA auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today. Restrictions appreciate.