← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Failed Gaetz nomination reveals limits on Trump’s power
00:41:12
Tonight on The Last Word: Donald Trump’s Cabinet picks are facing multiple controversies. Also, Trump defense secretary pick Pete Hegseth questions the established “rules of war.” Plus, Trump’s win throws the U.S. support of Ukraine into question. And Democrats retain a one-seat majority in the Pennsylvania House. Rep. Gregory Meeks, Janai Nelson, Mikhail Zygar, Amb. Michael McFaul, and Pennsylvania State Rep. Joanna McClinton join Jonathan Capehart.
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- [00:00]
Jonathan Capehart
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- [00:56]
Nikki Haley
Now it's time for the Last Word with Jonathan Capehart, who's in for Lawrence.
- [00:59]
Jonathan Capehart
Good evening, my friend. Good evening, Alex. Fly, be free. Enjoy your weekend.
- [01:04]
Janae Nelson
Thank you my friend.
- [01:05]
Jonathan Capehart
Have a great show. Thanks Alex. Thank you. Mandate Donald Trump and his allies have been screaming that word to anyone who'll listen. Since election night, as the final votes are still being counted, Donald Trump's share of the popular vote has slipped below 50%, meaning once again more voters voted against Trump than for him. According to the New York Times, that's one of the smallest margins of victory in the popular vote since the 19th century and generated little of the coattails of a true landslide. And of course, in 2016, Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes. Today, Trump's transition team tried to tout the MAGA mandate once again by comparing his win to the 1992 election, when Bill Clinton carried just 43% of the popular vote. And Time magazine ran the headline mandate for change. First, in 1992, the incumbent President George H.W. bush, the status quo got 37% of the vote. That's why the result was a mandate for a change. But even with an Electoral College victory much larger than Trump's, that mandate wasn't much of a mandate. The New York Times reports Bill Clinton tried to turn his 5.6-point win in 1992 into a mandate to completely overhaul the nation's healthcare system, a project that blew up in his face and cost his party both houses of Congress in the next midterm elections. Now Donald Trump isn't even in office, and things are already blowing up in his face with headline after headline about the failed nomination for Matt Gaetz as Attorney General and the limits of Donald Trump's power since it was Republican senators who tanked Gates nomination. Tonight, Donald Trump announced two major administration picks for A Treasury secretary, Trump picked Scott Besson, a billionaire hedge fund executive. The Washington Post reports that Besant, who once served as a chief lieutenant for GOP Boogeyman George Soros has emerged over the past year as a trusted advisor who can translate Trump's populist trade instincts in a way palatable to Wall street and financial markets. Also tonight, Donald Trump selected Project 2025 co author Russell Vought for director of the Office of Management and Budget. The New York Times reports Mr. Vaught's role in Project 2025 was to oversee executive orders and other unilateral actions that Mr. Trump could take during his first six months in office with the goal of tearing down and rebuilding executive branch institutions in a way that would enhance presidential power. But as of tonight, the most controversial Trump pick remains ex FOX Weekend host Pete Hegseth for defense secretary. Former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger predicts the Hegseth confirmation hearings will be brutal. Hegseth was not charged with that. He also wasn't exonerated, as you mentioned, but the military's had an issue with sexual assault that they've been trying to address for a number of years. And now you're putting the guy that's potentially guilty of that in charge of the Pentagon. And so I think the hearings are going to be pretty brutal for him. And, you know, we'll see what comes out of that. Keep in mind, if there was any other potential victims of HEG sets. I'm not saying there are, but if there were, they may come out in the next couple months. And so this could get, this could get pretty interesting. There is competition for a second most controversial pick. Congressman Republican Nikki Haley on her podcast attacked Robert Kennedy Jr. For HHS secretary.
- [05:00]
Nikki Haley
I understand he wants to raise awareness on chemicals in food and vaccinations, but then let him be a health advisor. He's a liberal Democrat, environmental attorney, trial lawyer who will now be overseeing 25% of our federal budget and has no background in health care. Some of you may like that he questions what's in our food and what's in our vaccines. But we don't know when he has given reins to an agency, what decisions he's going to make behind the scenes.
- [05:37]
Jonathan Capehart
And Haley had this to say about Tulsi Gabbard, Trump's choice for director of National Intelligence.
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Nikki Haley
She's defended Russia, she's defended Syria, she's defended Iran, and she's defended China. Now, she has not denounced any of these views, none of them. She hasn't taken one of them back. This is not a place for a Russian, Iranian, Syrian, Chinese sympathizer. DNI has to analyze real threats. Are we comfortable with someone like that at the top of our national intelligence agencies?
- [06:15]
Jonathan Capehart
Now, for the record, Trump picked all of those people. And Nikki Haley endorsed Trump and she hasn't renounced it. She could have made a different choice. She could have joined the majority of Americans who voted for someone else. She could have stayed silent. So, Nikki Haley, if those people you're so opposed to end up in charge, know that you helped put them there. Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York. He is the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and a senior member of the House Financial Services Committee. Ranking member Meeks, welcome to the Last Word.
- [06:55]
Gregory Meeks
Good to be with you, Jonathan.
- [06:56]
Jonathan Capehart
All right, let's start with Russ Vaught. Russ Vought, who my colleague at the Washington Post, Jeff Stein, has, I believe it's on Twitter, just pointed out all these things about Russ Vought, notably asserted presidential authorities to unilaterally claw back spending without Congress said, quote, we are living in a post constitutional time, aggressive proponent of using Schedule F to strip protections from much of the federal workforce. And you can see the rest there on the screen. But are you concerned about Vought's ties to Project 2025?
- [07:30]
Gregory Meeks
Yeah, we said it all along that this was Donald Trump's 2025. He tried to lied. He does that often. He's a stellar con man, even though he's the president elect. He said he had nothing to do with it. Yet you see Voight, as you will see others who were instrumental in putting Project 2025 together, being a part of his administration. Again. Jonathan because they were there before and that's why it is so dangerous Now. They were there before, but they had some guardrails. And now they think that they figured out how to get rid of those guardrails so that they can empower Donald Trump so that he is not like a president of the United States, but they would like him to be like a Vladimir Putin.
- [08:23]
Jonathan Capehart
You know, one of the things I didn't read that Jeff Stein put it there up there, put it back up on the screen, that Russ Vought has crafted plans for Trump to deploy the military to quash civil unrest and seize more control over the Justice Department. Deploying the military to quash civil unrest. That's something that Pete Hegseth, thanks to Jonathan Chait at the Atlantic, having read all of his books. That's something that the defense secretary pick that Trump has given us. PETE hegseth he's down for that, too. How concerned are you that people are being put in place who are going to do things that are unconstitutional but also un American?
- [09:06]
Gregory Meeks
Well, that's because those individuals that Donald Trump chooses, he doesn't want those that pledge themselves to the United States of America. He wants those that pledged themselves to Donald J. Trump. And that's where the danger really goes in. He wants loyalists. He's picked no one, really, based upon their experience. The only thing that he looks at when they give his resume is, will you be loyal to me? And so you have to question what anybody that he's put in place, because everyone that he's put in place has had a role previously with him. And as he says it, I mean, he doesn't hide it. He says the most important thing to him and whoever he picks is loyalty, not to the United States of America, but to Donald Trump. And that's a dangerous situation. Why? Who else looks to want to have people that's loyal? Does Vladimir Putin like people to be loyal to him? You know what happens to them if they don't go with him? He do go after them. In fact, many of them fall out of windows at times.
- [10:11]
Jonathan Capehart
I was about to say, you know, off balconies and things.
- [10:14]
Gregory Meeks
Albine, who visited him down in Margo Largo, go check out what's happening there. You know, his best friend, who he had a bro mask with, Kim Jong Un, what happens in North Korea, These are the people that he's associated himself with, and this is what he admires.
- [10:30]
Jonathan Capehart
I gotta get you on two more things. One, we played the long clip of Nikki Haley talking smack about Tulsi Gabbard. Did Nikki Haley say anything wrong or untrue about Tulsi Gabbard?
- [10:43]
Gregory Meeks
She said exactly right. That's why I am puzzled. She endorsed Donald Trump, and as you've correctly stated, she helped put him there because she could have taken the position that everyone that was close to Donald Trump, that had pledged allegiance to the United States, General Kelly, General Milley, they took umbrage with Donald Trump. The former vice president, his former defense secretary, all of them did not endorse Donald Trump in this last election. Nikki Haley could have done the same thing. So to talk about it now when it's too late, seems to me a little bit hypocritical.
- [11:24]
Jonathan Capehart
And let me have you put on your House Financial Services Committee hat your thoughts on Scott Besant being chosen by Trump as his choice for Treasury Secretary.
- [11:34]
Gregory Meeks
You know, unfortunately, when you look at this and you compare some of These other places, on paper he would seem as though he is a more reasonable person, but he would then have to carry out. And will he stand up to Donald Trump? When Donald Trump says he's going to put 10% tariffs on all of our allies and everyone else and almost 70% tariffs on China and what will that do with reference to inflation and other things, is he going to carry out that agenda or is he going to come to something that is much more reasonable? Because if you talk to any economist, conservative or liberal, they will tell you that what he has said, he, Donald Trump is inflationary. And so what will this guy do? Is he gonna just follow? Because Donald has said if you don't do what I tell you to do, he won't last long, he'll be fired, he'll be gone.
- [12:24]
Jonathan Capehart
Right. One more question for you before I have to let you. What do you think Trump's second term is gonna look like for House Democrats?
- [12:32]
Gregory Meeks
Well, look, we have now more seats than we had last time. We had 212. We had 213. Now we have two seats, three seats that are yet to be under. That's yet to be decided. We could be at 215 looking at the numbers right now, which means that the Republicans in the House will only have one vote. So they couldn't govern then. They couldn't govern in the 118th Congress. How do you expect them to Govern in the 119th Congress? So often in 118th Congress, the de facto speaker to get anything done was Hakeem Jeffries. So what's going to happen in the 119th Congress? They will not function. It's going to take them to working with us if they want to get anything done. And I think that what I can guarantee you, Jonathan, we will be taking it straight to the American people so that they can look and evaluate what's going on in their lives as a result of the election of Donald J. Trump and the election by keeping the House in the majority of the Republicans.
- [13:39]
Jonathan Capehart
See what I'm doing here?
- [13:42]
Gregory Meeks
Eating popcorn.
- [13:44]
Jonathan Capehart
Exactly. Congressman Gregory Meeks, the great state of New York. Thank you very much. Thank you, John.
- [13:49]
Joanna McClinton
Thank you.
- [13:49]
Jonathan Capehart
Good to be with you. Coming up, a new In Depth article makes the case their one clear candidate for Donald Trump's most dangerous cabinet pick. That's next. Donald Trump wants to fill his Cabinet with a cast of characters wholly unfit for senior level positions in government. Perhaps the most unsuitable choice is this guy. Donald Trump's selection of former Fox Weekend hosts Pete Hegseth to lead the Department of Defense. It's now in the hands of the Senate to hold confirmation hearings to expose exactly who these characters are that Donald Trump wants running the government. Government the Senate will surely ask Pete Hegseth about the police report revealing a disturbing sexual assault allegation against him from 2017. Now, Hegseth claims this encounter was consensual and no charges were ever filed, though Hegseth's attorney admits he paid money to the woman who accused him of assault as part of a non disclosure agreement because he feared it would impact his employment at Fox. But aside from Pete Hegseth's personal conduct, there is the question of Pete Hegseth's resume and qualifications for the actual job. And senators on the Armed Services Committee have plenty of material directly from Pete Hegseth's mouth to question. Pete Hegseth has written five books, three of them published in the past four years. The Atlantic's Jonathan Chait did the work of reading these books and concluded Pete Heckseth is Donald Trump's most dangerous cabinet pick. Chait writes, quote, the man who emerges from the pages appears to have sunk deeply into conspiracy theories that are brazen even by contemporary Republican standards, but that have attracted strangely little attention. He considers himself to be at war with basically everybody to Trump's left, and it is by no means clear that he means war. Metaphorically, he may be no less nutty than any of Trump's more controversial nominees, and given the power he is likely to hold command over 2 million American military personnel, he is almost certainly far more dangerous than any of them. There are nearly 229,000 women who serve as active duty military members. Chait explains what Hegseth thinks about women who serve. Quote he also frets that the inclusion of women in combat erodes traditional gender norms. How do you treat women in a combat situation, he asks, without eroding the basic instinct of civilization and the treatment of women in the society at large? Pete Hegseth's bizarre ideas aren't limited to the military. Jonathan Chait Write Quotes in his three most recent books, Hegseth puts forward a wide range of familiarly misguided ideas. Vaccines are poisonous. Climate change is a hoax. They used to warn about global cooling. You know, George Floyd died of a drug overdose and was not murdered. The Holocaust was perpetuated by German socialists. Jonathan Chait ends his assessment of Pete Hegseth's fitness for the Cabinet this a defense secretary with a tenuous grip on reality who can't differentiate foreign enemies from domestic political opponents and who seems to exist in a state of permanent hysteria is a problem that the United States has never had to survive. The main question I was looking to answer when I started reading Hegseth's collected works was whether he would follow a Trump command to shoot peaceful protesters after having read them. I don't think he would even wait for the order. Joining us now, Janae Nelson, president and director counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. Janae, welcome to the last word. That last quote that I from Jonathan Chait. His assessment. I don't even think Pete Hegseth would wait for the order to shoot American protesters. I mean, the civil rights violations alone are terrifying to contemplate. Your reaction to this warning from Jonathan Chait?
- [18:19]
Janae Nelson
It's a warning that I think we must heed lest we find ourselves at war with our own government, which there are many signs already suggesting that that is where we're headed. Pete Hexath is not just unfit because of all of the controversy swirling around him. If we look at his words and we listen to how he has castigated various groups of Americans who have volunteered to serve and protect our country, we know that we are on a collision course between the person who could potentially lead the Department of Defense and the military personnel that he will have to supervise. There has to be mutual respect. He does not respect the armed forces of America. In fact, he said that he wanted to leave the armed forces and disavow them. And he also talked about diversity, equity, and inclusion, which has helped to make our military the strong force worldwide that it is. 21% of military personnel are people of color. And yet he suggested in his book War on Warriors that black troops are only elevated because of their race. That is dismissive of their qualifications, of their willingness to serve, of their sacrifice to this country. And it is really an attack on our own domestic strength, which is our diversity. So I believe that Pete Hegseth is a national security threat himself. Setting aside the sexual misconduct allegations, his record alone, his words alone, his actions alone tell us that he is wholly unfit. He should be disqualified on arrival. He doesn't even deserve a confirmation process. He, like Matt Gaetz, needs to withdraw because he is a danger to this society.
- [20:11]
Jonathan Capehart
Well, more to that point, let me read you some another piece of Jonathan Chait's analysis. Quote, Hegseth makes plain that he considers the very idea of rules of war just more woke nonsense. Modern warfighters fight lawyers as much as we fight bad guys, he writes. Our enemies should get bullets, not attorneys. Janae, there's a lot to unpack here what's at stake if someone with these views were to head the American military.
- [20:44]
Janae Nelson
Yeah, listen. He talks only in terms of warfare. He sees people as enemy combatants, whether they are foreign threats or whether they are domestic citizens who somehow don't hold the same beliefs that he does. He has made clear that he is ready to wage a crusade of Judeo Christian politics. He said that these are his words and we need to take them at his words. We cannot have someone supervising our military, our ballistics, the power and strength of the American forces if they don't believe in the integrity of the rule of law, if they are not willing to follow international norms and treaties and the constraints that allow us to engage in protection, but in a way that is humane, that is lawful, and that will continue to command the respect of the rest of the world.
- [21:37]
Jonathan Capehart
I was gonna ask you about women in the military, but given how emphatic you are about the danger he is, how worried are you that he. And advising, advising then by then President Trump will advise him to invoke the Insurrection Act. How worried are you that that is something that is going to happen?
- [22:04]
Janae Nelson
I think it absolutely could happen. There's no question, because we see the language that he uses about certain groups of people. He's used very Islamophobic language. He's used very sexist language. And not just language. He actually espouses sexist beliefs in saying that women are unfit for combat after women have given their lives, have been successful, high ranking officials in the military. Everything about the fact of our military and our strength contradicts his arcane beliefs about who is suitable for conduct for combat. And I think we should assume that any possible law that could be weaponized against the American people is potentially at his disposal to do so. He's also a denier of the January 6th rioters. He suggests that military personnel and veterans who were engaged in that treasonous act against our country somehow were not engaging in wrongful conduct. And that is someone we want to put in charge of our armed forces and our military. That is an extraordinarily dangerous exercise. It's one that we can't play with. This is not politics as usual or poking fun at an odd nominee. No, this is actually quite serious.
- [23:22]
Jonathan Capehart
Indeed it is. Janee Nelson, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word.
- [23:26]
Janae Nelson
Thank you, Jonathan.
- [23:28]
Jonathan Capehart
Coming up, Vladimir Putin thinks America electing Donald Trump, a convicted felon, twice impeached and found liable for sexual abuse for a second time is a sign America is ready to fall like the Soviet union, according to one Russian news editor. That editor will join me with a warning about Putin's prediction next.
- [23:52]
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Jonathan Capehart
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Gregory Meeks
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- [25:18]
Jonathan Capehart
The people who put in a lot to helping Donald Trump win are now assessing what they can get out of a Trump presidency. That's true for Elon Musk, and it's true for Vladimir Putin, who has been working to interfere in American politics to benefit Donald Trump since 2016. The New York Times ran a sobering assessment this week by a Russian opposition journalist of how Putin views Donald Trump's second term. The headline is Putin Sees America Hurtling to Disaster with Trump at the wheel. That's not encouraging, especially as Trump spent part of today meeting Mark Ruta, the secretary general of NATO, an alliance Putin hates and which Trump has repeatedly denigrated. But the Times essay explains that enthusiasm over Trump 2.0 isn't even about how Trump will advance any particular pro Russia objective. Instead, the excitement comes from something else. It's that to many in the Kremlin, a Trump presidency might bring about the collapse of the American state. According to the essay, predictions of America's imminent fall had been a fringe view in Russia until top leaders of its government started stating it openly in the last few years. In 2021. Vladimir Putin compared US government today to the fall of the Soviet Union, saying, quote, as a former citizen of the former Soviet Union, I'll tell you the problem with empires. They believe they are so powerful that they can afford minor mistakes. But the problems accumulate, and a moment comes when they are no longer manageable. The United States is confidently, firmly marching down the same path as the Soviet Union. The essay's author, Mikhail Ziger, has unique insight into the paranoia and malice animating the Russian government's thinking. A now exiled opposition journalist living in New York, Ziger was convicted in abstentia this past July under Russia's draconian media laws, accusing him of disseminating fake news by criticizing the Russian military's conduct in its invasion of Ukraine. Zeiger denounced that verdict as ridiculous, and his case is part of an international Russian clampdown on independent and opposition voices. His remarkable essay shows how Russian officials spun the movie Civil War, a fictional Hollywood film, as a prophecy about supposedly looming US Succession and how they latch onto US Culture wars in the hopes of creating that outcome. Joining us now is the author of that essay, Russian journalist Mikhail Ziger. He now runs the newsletter the Last Pioneer. Also with us is Michael McFaul, who served as US Ambassador to Russia under former President Barack Obama. He's now a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and an international studies professor at Stanford University. Mikael, let me start with you. Talk to us about this collapse notion and how the Kremlin is viewing a second Trump presidency.
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Mikhail Zigar
Hello. Thank you for having me. You know, it might sound ridiculous, but I recently hear quite a lot of comparisons between Donald Trump and Mikhail Gorbachev. And they don't mean that Gorbachev as the reformist or liberal person. They compare them because they view Gorbachev as some kind of Russian leader who embraced Western ideology and therefore brought his country to chaos. And in the same way, they consider Donald Trump the person who stopped believing in the traditional American ideology, meaning liberal democracy, and embrace the current Russian ideology, which is cynicism or pragmatism, doing business as usual with any dictatorship or authoritarian regime. And they expect Trump to behave this way. And at the same time, they understand that liberal democracy is some kind of cornerstone of American state. They think that this culture war can lead America into the civil war.
- [29:45]
Jonathan Capehart
So, and Mikael, can you assess what the Kremlin, what the Kremlin really thinks versus propaganda, the Kremlin says, hoping to will it into existence?
- [29:58]
Mikhail Zigar
No, I, you know, I do believe that they are, in a way delusional because you know, former KGB officers have very specific mindset, and they. They believe in something. They want to believe. It's a great amount of wishful thinking, but, yeah. And when they are speaking about the movie with Kirsten Dunst as a proof, as some kind of smoking gun. Yeah, really, it sounds ridiculous, but in a way, they really believe that liberal democracy is no longer a real ideology believed shared by a lot of Americans. And I, when. When Vladimir Putin compares the United States with the Soviet Union, saying that the Soviet Union went bankrupt because it was promoting its ideology all around the world and the same fate is expecting the United States, I think he truly believes.
- [31:02]
Jonathan Capehart
In that ambassador iq. What's your reaction to that? What's your reaction to what Mikhail is just saying?
- [31:10]
Michael McFaul
Well, I'd encourage everybody to read the piece. It's very creative. I know many of the people that he quotes in there. I used to deal with Vladimir Putin when I was ambassador, and I think we tend to hear these ideas and we say, how in God's name could they believe these things? And I've grown to understand that they do believe these things, but there is some basis for it. Right, this analogy. Remember, Gorbachev came in and he. He aspired to promote an idea that was promoted in the United States. And the word liberalism. Just everybody be clear about this. We're using it in the European sense of it, pro democracy, pro human rights. And that was antithetical to a lot of people in Soviet society. Russian society, Mr. Trump is embracing Putinism, illiberalism, denial of rights, nationalist ideas, and that is antithetical to a large segment of American society. And just as you had depolarization, especially in the last years of the Gorbachev era, we now have polarization here. And Putin looks at that and says, aha, that was the beginning of the end of the Soviet Union, and perhaps it's the beginning of the end of the United States and their commitment to this liberal idea both at home and abroad.
- [32:29]
Jonathan Capehart
And Mikhail, what do you hear about action items the Kremlin wants from Trump.
- [32:38]
Mikhail Zigar
So far? They want not only Trump, they want certain part of American society to start loving Vladimir Putin. Because during the last couple of years, they started using agenda, which is very far from. From the Russian population. For example, the Russian parliament last year voted for the law that banned any trans people. Then they started discussing the ban of abortions, which is, you know, it's irrelevant for Russia. In Russia, abortions were legal and free for 100 years. And it's like, it's clear for everyone that it cannot be popular and it cannot be implemented. But still they are trying to use the far right agenda from America to spread that message that Vladimir Putin is, in a way, the bearer of some traditional values. So, yes, he really wants to be understood or to be appreciated by some part of American society. And he wants to be the person Donald Trump would be willing to talk to.
- [33:56]
Jonathan Capehart
And Ambassador McFaul, do you think the Kremlin has any action items that they're looking for from Donald Trump?
- [34:05]
Michael McFaul
Well, I'd say one thing they're really looking for, which is him to cut aid to Ukraine and to give Putin everything he wants. They want Trump to capitulate and call it a great deal. But the second thing actually relates to, Jonathan, what you were talking about before we got on with you. The Trump administration and President Trump says they want to destroy the state. Elon Musk, I'm just paraphrasing. He says this is a moment for revolution. That's Elon Musk's words, not mine. That's exactly what they want. They want to see the destruction of the Pentagon. They want to see us tearing ourselves apart inside the Pentagon and throughout the state. And then we'll be distracted with our battles here at home and we will not be engaged in the world abroad. And that is a big gift to Vladimir Putin.
- [34:56]
Jonathan Capehart
Ambassador Michael McFaul, Mikhail Zegar, thank you both very much for coming to the Last word.
- [35:01]
Michael McFaul
Sure.
- [35:02]
Jonathan Capehart
And coming up, there were bright spots in the 2024 election, including in Pennsylvania, where Democrats in the state House somehow managed to retain their remarkable one seat majority. How did they do it? And what's the impact on the future of this key battleground state? I'll ask current and future speaker of the House In Pennsylvania, Joanna McClinton. Next.
- [35:28]
Unknown Speaker
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Gregory Meeks
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- [37:44]
Jonathan Capehart
Yesterday, Pennsylvania's senior Democratic senator Bob Casey conceded his reelection campaign to his Republican rival Dave McCormack. The concession means Republicans will officially have a 5,347 majority next year in the United States Senate. But there is a bright spot in all the election news out of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Remarkably, Democrats managed to keep control of the Pennsylvania state House with a 102 to 101 majority, exactly the same result as in 2020. Republicans failed to flip the chamber despite Donald Trump winning the state by more than 100,000 votes. Here's what Pennsylvania House Speaker Joanna McClinton said about the Democratic win.
- [38:29]
Joanna McClinton
Notably, when the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania was read in so many places, people, people in our respective constituents understood that it was the one seat majority that stood in the gap to invest a historic amount of money in public education. They understood it was the one seat majority that delivered tax cuts to our seniors who are struggling to maintain their homes. But we're standing here today having gone.
- [38:57]
Janae Nelson
Through a brutal and bloody primary and.
- [39:00]
Joanna McClinton
Mid general election, having kept everybody aboard.
- [39:05]
Jonathan Capehart
Joining us now is Pennsylvania House Speaker Joanna McClinton. She is the first woman ever to serve in that role. Speaker McClinton, first, congratulations on retaining your speakership. You have admitted that this election was brutal, but how did Pennsylvania House Democrats manage to maintain their majority?
- [39:25]
Joanna McClinton
Thank you so much for the congratulations. We are happy, we're overjoyed. But of course, we're fighting back that national depression wave that Democrats are experiencing right now because all of us are disappointed with what happened on Tuesday, November 5, notwithstanding what occurred at the top of the ticket and us losing a dear friend, mentor of mine, our long standing, respected statesman, Senator Casey, our colleagues, we're in the people's house in 101 districts. They're all different. None of them are the same. Our district offices are open every day. We're serving our neighbors. We're making ways out of no way. And most importantly, we've been able to deliver with only that one seat majority. So the incumbents all came back and the places where incumbents retired. We have new Democrats representing those districts and we're just looking forward to having a better two year term with our one seat majority. We're breathing a sigh of relief, but we know that there's so much work for us to do.
- [40:24]
Jonathan Capehart
You know, Speaker McClinton, there is this notion that Democrats lost because they leaned too far into identity politics and that a stronger populist economic message was needed. Do you agree with that assessment?
- [40:38]
Joanna McClinton
Absolutely not. We need to be honest. This nation does not want a woman in charge. That is what we need to agree upon. We need to agree upon the fact that people understood everything our former president stood for, all of the promises he made on that campaign trail about dismantling our democracy, the deadly insurrection that he provoked on 6 January in 2020. Nevertheless, all of the things that occurred, they decided they didn't want. What will probably be one of the most accomplished women to ever run to be the president, a former prosecutor, both locally and at the state level, a member of the United States Senate, the first woman vice president. That is what we need to acknowledge. This nation decided they didn't want that.
- [41:22]
Jonathan Capehart
How are you going to make sure they hear that?
- [41:25]
Joanna McClinton
Making sure they hear that is having honest conversations about where we are in a nation with women who aren't even in politics. We need to look at our boardrooms. We need to go to corporate infrastructures. We need to look at nonprofit leadership. And we need to also acknowledge that women who are doing great jobs in public spaces deserve to be promoted according to their worth and their value. And certainly our Madam Vice President, Kamala D. Harris worked so hard and all of us were working very, very hard to turn the page in history in this nation, to move us forward. And notwithstanding it not occurring, though, guess what? We are staying in the fight. We're staying in the fight for justice. We're staying in the fight for fairness. And we are going to make sure that our nation prepares itself because the time will come when we'll have the opportunity to turn the page in history.
- [42:15]
Jonathan Capehart
All right, Speaker McClinton, so since the election, we have spent a lot of time talking about the best way to communicate to voters who don't read the news or even watch television, especially young voters. What are Pennsylvania Democrats doing to communicate with voters in a changing media landscape?
- [42:35]
Joanna McClinton
Well, we're all on TikTok. I have a Blueski account and a blue sky. I'm probably not saying it right. I am a millennial. Don't laugh. I'm not as young as I look.
- [42:47]
Jonathan Capehart
Look, I'm older than you. Did you say you're a millennial?
- [42:50]
Joanna McClinton
Sky account? Listen, I've got an Instagram page. We are all over social media because we recognize everyone's not subscribing to their local paper or national paper to get the news. We are meeting people where there are to let them know what we're doing. Of course we do traditional emails, newsletters, as some of my neighbors say. I think I got something in the mail with your picture on it. So no matter what form of news people are using, because we know everybody doesn't tune into network news, we're meeting them where they are, including on the blue sky.
- [43:22]
Jonathan Capehart
That's right, on the blue sky. And if you're a millennial, that means I am your elder. Pennsylvania State House Leader Joanna McClinton, thank you very much, Speaker. Speaker McClinton, thank you. Tonight's Last Word is next. This week I sat down with former President Bill Clinton for a wide ranging interview and I asked him about Donald Trump's Cabinet picks. You are former president. You had to pick a cabinet. Can you believe who Donald Trump is picking to be in a second Trump administration?
- [44:00]
J
Yeah. Well, you have to listen to Donald Trump. He's been very forthright about how he views the world. He's interested in people who are loyal to him 100% of the time, no matter what the issue, no matter what the facts. No matter who gets hurt. He wants people who just say yes and then get after it first. Second, he believes that his supporters have no confidence whatever in the federal government, and Lord knows he's done everything he could to destroy that confidence. And he believes he can just say, well, I appointed these people, they're smart and they're going to shake things up. But I think that in demonizing all establishments and all people who wear a tie like you and me to work and have a good education, we are breaking down the legitimacy of not only people who may be too sanctimonious and too set in their ways in the past, but also people who actually know things that are very important for us today and very important for our continued growth and prosperity and harmony.
- [45:32]
Jonathan Capehart
You can watch the whole interview on the Saturday show tomorrow at 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. It was a truly fascinating conversation and I hope you'll join us. That is tonight's last word.
- [45:45]
Unknown Speaker
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