Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode: Federal appeals court: Most Trump tariffs are illegal
Date: August 30, 2025
Host: Ali Velshi (filling in for Lawrence O’Donnell), with guest discussions

Overview

This episode centers on a landmark federal appeals court decision declaring that most tariffs imposed by former President Donald Trump are illegal. Through a series of in-depth discussions with legal and political experts, the episode explores the constitutional issues at stake, specifically presidential overreach versus Congressional authority, and the broader implications for American governance, law, economics, and foreign policy. The episode also covers developments in Congressional power struggles over appropriations (“pocket rescissions”), the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war and Trump’s efforts in foreign diplomacy, and significant upcoming electoral changes in Iowa and Wisconsin.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Federal Appeals Court Declares Trump’s Tariffs Illegal

Segment Start: [01:55]

• Ali Velshi breaks the news:

  "A federal appeals court ruled that most of Donald Trump's tariffs are illegal. It was a huge and decisive blow against Trump's most significant and far reaching and likely most damaging economic policy and his effort to steal the power and authority that constitutionally belongs to Congress." [01:55]

• The ruling found that the tariffs, imposed under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), exceeded presidential authority—impacting nearly all imports and countries.

• The court’s decision: The President’s authority to “regulate” in emergencies does not extend to imposing expansive tariff schemes—a power that belongs to Congress.

• The current tariffs remain in effect until mid-October, pending a likely Supreme Court appeal.

Notable Quote:

“The trafficking and reciprocal tariffs assert an expansive authority that is beyond the express limitations of the authority delegated to the President by the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.” – [Ali Velshi, summarizing court decision at 02:20]

2. Legal Perspective and Future SCOTUS Fight

Segment Start: [03:37]

• Neil Katyal (attorney who argued the case) on the likelihood of the Supreme Court taking the case:

  "The Nonpartisan Tax foundation says that these tariffs are the largest tax increase on Americans since Bill Clinton in 1993, and yet Congress had nothing to do with them. It's just President Trump and the stroke of his pen, and that just can't be the right way to run a constitutional system." [03:37]

• Katyal remains confident in the legal argument against the tariffs, citing major questions doctrine and constitutional separation of powers.
• DOJ, under Attorney General Pam Bondi, confirmed it will appeal the decision ([04:59]).

3. Lawrence Tribe on Congressional Power and Executive Overreach

Segment Start: [06:04]

• Professor Lawrence Tribe (Harvard Law) stresses the constitutional crisis:

  "The International Economic Emergency Powers act delegates all kinds of authorities to the President... But it does not delegate to the President the power to basically replace Congress's carefully designed tariff scheme with tariffs of his own across the board." [06:28]

• Tribe highlights that limited tariffs for national security were not struck down, but the court objected to the broad, punitive use of tariffs for non-emergency purposes.
• The case is procedurally slowed (“slow-walking”)—could extend past the midterms, leaving tariffs in place in the interim.

Memorable Analogy:

“What this president is doing is reaching into everybody's pocket by imposing a tax. Taxation without representation. I think I heard that slogan somewhere.” – Lawrence Tribe [10:05]

• Tribe references the Founding Fathers:

  “Tom Paine asked the key question... how can we tell that this president will not become a king? And the answer that James Madison gave him was... we've not given him the power of the purse.” [09:38]

• The power to tax, he argues, is at the heart of Congressional authority and constitutional checks.

4. Discussion on ‘Pocket Rescissions’ and Presidential Appropriation Power

Segment Start: [13:28]

• Trump issued another executive maneuver to cut $4.9 billion in foreign aid through “pocket rescissions”—again bypassing Congress.

• Both Republicans (#Senator Susan Collins) and Democrats (#Senator Patty Murray, Rep. Rosa DeLauro) quickly denounced these moves as illegal.

• The Government Accountability Office has ruled pocket rescissions illegal; the administration claims broad executive discretion.

• Lloyd Doggett (D-TX):

  "You can go back to ancient English history... Parliament had the power of the purse to restrain the king. Well, we have a self described king now and this Congress has been steadily seeing its power eroded." [16:28]

• Norm Ornstein (historian):

  "After Richard Nixon tried to do this... it is black letter constitutional law that Congress has the power of the purse." [18:35]

• The panel laments Congressional inaction and warns against further erosion of checks and balances.

  "Are we turning over all authority to this king or dictator to do the job? ...I'm concerned that Republican colleagues will let him get away with this." – Lloyd Doggett [20:43]

5. Foreign Policy and Trump’s Failed Diplomacy

Segment Start: [25:53]

• The episode reviews Trump’s claims of “ending wars,” focusing on the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
• After a much-publicized summit with Putin in Alaska and assignment of a personal envoy (Steve Witkoff), there has been no progress toward peace—Russia escalated attacks on Kyiv.
• Witkoff is described as inexperienced, “a rogue actor,” with little transparency or efficacy in diplomatic efforts.
• Trump and his aides make exaggerated and often false claims about peace deals.

Notable Quote:

“He can't even pronounce Azerbaijan, a participant in one of the deals. ...He attacked Iran. ...Ukraine is far from being resolved. And he's actively supporting Israeli war crimes in Gaza. ...You don't get the Nobel Prize for supporting Israeli war crimes...” – Chris Hayes [31:44]

Panel Summary: The current diplomatic theater is counterproductive, enabling Russian aggression and furthering global instability.

6. Political Shifts: Retirements in Iowa, Wisconsin & Prospects for Democracy

Segment Start: [34:25]

Iowa: Senator Joni Ernst Will Not Seek Reelection

• Opens possibilities for Democrats in a traditionally red state.
• State Rep. Josh Turek underscores the importance of “kitchen table issues” over culture wars.

  “People should not be having to make a decision in the richest country on earth: do I pay my bills, my pills?” – Josh Turek [38:55]

• Recent Democratic wins in special elections signal changing tides.

Wisconsin: Supreme Court Justice Rebecca Bradley to Retire

• Opportunity to entrench a pro-democracy, liberal majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court—a critical bulwark for 2028 election integrity.

• Ben Wickler (former WI Democratic Party Chair):

  "Trump came within a single vote on the state Supreme Court of overturning the 2020 election result. ...Chris Taylor... could cement a pro democracy majority... through the 2028 presidential race." [41:05]

• Emphasizes ongoing grassroots organizing as essential for sustaining democracy.

Notable Quote:

“Winning, saving democracy, making sure that there's a future for the United States of America is about addition, not subtraction or division.” – Ben Wickler [43:52]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ali Velshi:

  “It is about bringing more people into the fold and it is about getting out there and making the case. And we can do that. We did it in Wisconsin this spring. We're going to do it in Wisconsin again next spring. And then from Iowa to Wisconsin to across the country. We need a blue wave like we've never seen before in the 2026 midterms.” [44:25]

• On Congressional Power:

  “The power to tax, John Marshall said very early in our history, is the power to destroy.” – Lawrence Tribe [11:47]

• On Democratic organizing:

  “This is a moment when people need to stand and be counted and then they need to recruit more people so that the numbers swell.” – Ben Wickler [43:52]

Important Timestamps

• [01:55] – Breaking news on federal appeals court striking down Trump tariffs.
• [03:37] – Neil Katyal on Supreme Court implications.
• [06:04] – Lawrence Tribe on power of the purse, constitutional foundations.
• [13:28] – Foreign aid “pocket rescissions” controversy.
• [16:28] – Lloyd Doggett: historical parallel to Parliamentary restraint of the King.
• [18:35] – Norm Ornstein: constitutional law and appropriations.
• [25:53] – Update on Ukraine war and Trump-Putin summit farce.
• [31:44] – Chris Hayes debunks Trump’s peace claims.
• [34:25] – Political shifts in Iowa and Wisconsin; implications for 2026 midterms.
• [41:05] – Ben Wickler: importance of WI Supreme Court for democracy.
• [43:52] – Call for mass organizing to safeguard American democracy.

Conclusion

This episode presents a sweeping exploration of the threats posed by unchecked executive action—whether on tariffs, federal spending, or diplomacy—and underscores the urgency of Congressional oversight, judicial checks, and grassroots democratic organization. The courts may have ruled against Trump’s tariffs, but delays and appeals mean the struggle over the separation of powers and the fate of American democracy continues.