GOP lawmakers face vote on unpopular Trump budget plan

Summary

Podcast Summary: "GOP Lawmakers Face Vote on Unpopular Trump Budget Plan"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
• Host/Author: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC
• Episode: GOP Lawmakers Face Vote on Unpopular Trump Budget Plan
• Release Date: May 3, 2025

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

In this episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, the focus is on the Republican Party's internal struggles as GOP lawmakers prepare to vote on what is described as President Donald Trump's unpopular budget plan. The episode delves into the mounting public dissatisfaction with Trump’s policies, illustrated by declining poll numbers and widespread protests.

Key Points:

• Public Dissatisfaction: President Trump’s approval ratings have plummeted to historic lows, with many Americans expressing frustration over his handling of the economy and other key issues.
• Protests: Nationwide protests highlight the growing opposition to Trump’s policies, emphasizing the tangible impact of his administration on everyday Americans.

Notable Quote:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez at Town Hall (01:50): “We can't rely on rules with a rule breaker. And it means that we have to get creative… Public opinion really does matter.”

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2. Changes Within the Trump Administration

The episode highlights significant personnel changes within Trump’s administration, particularly the ousting of Mike Waltz as National Security Adviser following a security breach involving a Signal chat discussing a military operation in Yemen.

Key Points:

• Mike Waltz’s Departure: Trump nominates Waltz as United States Ambassador following the scandal, avoiding a direct firing but setting the stage for potential scrutiny during Senate confirmation hearings.
• Pete Hegseth’s Nomination: Trump's choice for Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, faces challenges due to his own controversies, including leaked communication plans.

Notable Quotes:

Chris Kramer on Political Capital (02:56): “Every time you spend capital, though, you have less to spend again. And so I do have some concern.”

Ali Velshi on Hegseth (03:37): “Trump has continued to defend him, sort of even as the Signal scandal and other revelations have rattled the Pentagon.”

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3. Impact of Trump's Tariff Policies on the Economy and Businesses

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing the repercussions of Trump’s tariff policies on American businesses and consumers. The tariffs have led to increased costs for manufacturers and retailers, resulting in higher prices for consumer goods and operational challenges for small businesses.

Key Points:

• Business Struggles: Companies like Adidas, Procter & Gamble, and Hasbro are forced to raise prices to offset tariff costs, adversely affecting consumer affordability.
• Small Business Hardships: Local business owners express uncertainty and frustration, with some fearing closure due to unpredictable tariff implementations.
• Consumer Impact: Essential items such as toys and electronics are becoming more expensive, placing additional financial strain on American households.

Notable Quotes:

Bernie Sanders at Rally (07:50): “It's Trump's big, beautiful bill, and what this big, beautiful bill will do is cut over $800 billion in Medicaid…give over a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the 1%.”

Ali Velshi on Business Impact (09:17): “Most of these tariffs have not hit. They haven't come into place yet. Most of the job losses that will follow have not started yet.”

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4. Political Climate and Voter Sentiment

The episode underscores the shifting political landscape as GOP lawmakers grapple with voter dissatisfaction. Polling data reflects a significant decline in support for Trump, influencing legislative actions and the broader midterm election dynamics.

Key Points:

• Polling Data: Trump's approval ratings are the lowest ever recorded at the 100-day mark, particularly due to economic mismanagement and controversial policies.
• Democratic Strategy: Democrats, including prominent figures like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders, are capitalizing on Republican weaknesses to rally support for upcoming elections.
• GOP Challenges: Internal divisions within the Republican Party emerge as lawmakers weigh their support for Trump’s agenda against rising public opposition.

Notable Quotes:

Chris D'Aluisio (17:29): “If people are mad about the economy right now, you ain't seen nothing yet.”

Bernie Sanders (16:24): “Let us stand together. Let us defeat oligarchy. Let us defeat authoritarianism and create a government and economy that works for all of us.”

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5. Doge Damage Assessment: Cost of Trump's Policies

A critical segment of the episode features a "Doge damage assessment," analyzing the financial and operational fallout from Trump’s administrative decisions, particularly focusing on workforce reductions and their economic implications.

Key Points:

• Federal Workforce Cuts: The Trump administration’s strategy of firing and rehiring federal employees without performance audits leads to substantial financial losses and operational inefficiencies.
• Economic Impact: Experts estimate that these workforce changes could cost taxpayers upwards of $135 billion due to lost productivity, rehiring costs, and legal battles.
• Legislative Oversight: The episode discusses the constitutional issues arising from the executive overreach in dismantling federal agencies without congressional approval.

Notable Quotes:

Melanie Stansbury (33:46): “The real issue… this is fundamentally unconstitutional and illegal. They’re not solving for waste, they’re creating waste.”

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (38:11): “Trump is tanking his own private business, he's helped to tank our economy, and he's totally destroyed the federal government.”

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6. Implications for Midterm Elections

The financial strain and policy mishaps are expected to have profound effects on the upcoming midterm elections. The GOP faces dwindling support as Trump's influence wanes, potentially leading to significant losses in both the House and Senate.

Key Points:

• Shifting Districts: Competitive districts, such as Wisconsin’s 3rd, are becoming toss-ups as voter sentiment turns against Trump-aligned candidates.
• Candidate Challenges: Republican lawmakers like Derek Van Orden face increasing criticism and loss of voter trust, bolstering Democratic challengers like Rebecca Cook.
• Strategic Campaigning: Democrats are leveraging economic grievances and policy failures to mobilize voters and regain control in the midterm races.

Notable Quotes:

Rebecca Cook on Tariffs (28:17): “This administration isn’t looking in the long term. Regular people are already struggling…”

Chris D'Aluisio on Economic Impact (23:22): “If you're a small business owner… this might be something that kills your business.”

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7. Conclusion and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with a sobering assessment of the Trump administration’s trajectory, highlighting the deepening economic woes, eroding political capital, and the consequential shift in voter alignment. As the GOP braces for midterm elections, the effectiveness of Trump’s policies remains under intense scrutiny, with significant implications for the American political landscape.

Key Points:

• Economic Strain: Persistent economic challenges are eroding public confidence, setting the stage for a contentious electoral battle.
• Political Realignment: The Republican Party faces a crossroads, needing to reconcile internal divisions amidst declining support for Trump’s leadership.
• Democratic Momentum: With strategic campaigning and voter mobilization, Democrats appear poised to capitalize on Republican vulnerabilities in the upcoming elections.

Notable Quotes:

Ali Velshi's Closing Remarks (46:26): “Coming up with the era of Elon Musk trying to chainsaw the federal government seemingly maybe sort of coming to an end… We will discuss that next.”

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Overall Summary: In this compelling episode, Lawrence O’Donnell explores the tumultuous state of the Republican Party as it contends with President Trump’s unpopular budget and tariff policies. The administration’s internal turmoil, marked by high-profile firings and controversial nominations, exacerbates existing economic challenges, leading to widespread dissatisfaction among voters and business owners alike. As the GOP grapples with dwindling political capital and increasing public opposition, the episode paints a vivid picture of a political landscape on the brink of significant change, with midterm elections set to be a pivotal battleground.

Transcript

[Ali Velshi]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com autodiscounts restrictions apply. Ali Velshi is in for Lawrence O'Donnell. Hello, Ali Velshi.

[Ali Velshi]

What's that show really gonna be called at 7:00 every night?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The Weeknight.

[Ali Velshi]

Come on.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You wanted more creativity from me.

[Ali Velshi]

I'm just saying the Weeknight.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

How about if it's like the Weeknight?

[Ali Velshi]

That's it. Did that do it for you? So this actually makes me very happy because I said goodbye to your weekend team. Cause the weekend comes before my show on Saturday. And so I said goodbye and I had a cake in which I had the weekend written and it was rubbed out and then I had the Weeknight and you weren't there.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

But here we are.

[Ali Velshi]

But here we are. So we get to actually do what we do every Saturday morning. You get to sign off and I get to speak to you for a moment. And my favorite part, I'm kind of sad because this isn't gonna happen again all that often. So I wish you the greatest of luck on that new show called Weeknight.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I'll miss you, you miss me. I'm gonna go give you a hug right now.

[Ali Velshi]

All right, buddy. Have a great show. Thank you for a great show. Good luck with. We will all be watching.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. Thank you, Ali.

[Ali Velshi]

Well, Donald Trump's illusion of power is cracking. His poll numbers are tanking. Voters are protesting loudly and often. And on day 102, Republican lawmakers seem to be taking notice. Here's Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez at a town hall in Queens, New York tonight.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

We can't rely on rules with a rule breaker. And it means that we have to get creative. And it really does mean that with a reality TV show president that public opinion matters. Public opinion really does matter. And when we're able to be on our offense with some of these folks and we're able to turn the public tide, then we are sometimes able to get and secure some changes and some rollbacks in what they are planning to do.

[Ali Velshi]

Now, just yesterday, once again, thousands of people took to the streets across the country to protest Donald Trump's policies. In other news, Donald Trump's national security adviser has been given the boot, sort of. Donald Trump ousted this man, Mike Waltz as his national senior adviser after it was revealed that Waltz inadvertently added a journalist to a Signal chat that was discussing plans for a military operation in Yemen.

[Chris Kramer]

On the case of Mike and Signal Gate and all of that, it was a pretty big breach. It was a pretty big problem. The next round of people to support, you know, is going to become harder. I think I warned at the very beginning of a lot of this. There's a lot of political capital being spent to get these people across the finish line. I'm glad to do it. I think Pete Hegseth could be one of the best secretaries of defense ever. But it wasn't without spending a lot of my own and a lot of other people's political capital. Again, glad to do it. Every time you spend capital, though, you have less to spend again. And so I do have some concern.

[Ali Velshi]

Hagsett's going to be one of the best defense secretaries ever. I hope that ages well for Chris Kramer. After hours of reports that Waltz was being fired, Trump posted that he would nominate Waltz as United States Ambassador because that's kind of how it rolls. You don't actually get fired from this administration. In which case Democrats are going to get the chance to grill Mike Waltz about the signal breach under oath in his Senate confirmation hearings. I remind those of you who don't think Senate confirmation hearings are all that important is that if you lie under oath, that is a federal. And somehow I don't think the questions are going to be limited to Waltz because it was the scandal ridden Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, the one that Kramer just said might be the best defense secretary in history, who actually divulged the attack plans. Politico reports that Waltz's firing is likely to turn attention to the embattled Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Trump has continued to defend him, sort of even as the Signal scandal and ensuring revelations of other similar text threads have rattled the Pentagon and seen the departure of many of Hegseth's top aides, end quote. Trump was asked the other day about Whether he has 100% faith in Hegseth, and he gave a long, rambly answer that suggested that he doesn't. But let's talk about what Kramer was talking about, political capital. How much political capital will Republican senators be willing to spend here? It seems like Republicans could be done spending political capital to help Donald Trump rewrite and glorify January 6th. The latest Ask from Trump is that they confirm a man named Ed Martin as the top federal Prosecutor in Washington, D.C. now, Ed Martin, no regular guy. Ed Martin was an organizer of the Stop the Steal movement who has defended January 6 rioters and praised, repeatedly praised, an accused Nazi sympathizer who was convicted of attacking the Capitol. Ed Martin has publicly attacked some of the very Republican senators whose votes he now needs for confirmation, senators who were at work when the Capitol came under attack on January 6th. Senator Chuck Grassley has so far declined to schedule a vote for Martin, whose gig as acting Director ends on May 20th. The Washington Post reports, quote, three people familiar with Martin's nomination says he does not have the votes at this time to be approved. He cannot afford to lose a single Republican committee member or more than three GOP votes in the full Senate while the White House weighs if Martin's liabilities can be overcome, end quote. The Republican Senator Thom Tillis, who disagreed with Donald Trump's blanket pardons for January 6th voters January 6th rioters expressed concern over Ed Martin's comments minimizing the attack on the Capitol, telling the Washington Post, quote, I'm talking about somebody who wants to be U.S. attorney in the jurisdiction where that event and future events could possibly occur. I'm not going to say I'm a no now, he said, but I'm going to have to get some pretty fulsome responses for me to feel comfortable with this nomination, end quote. Don't hold your breath about any of this, by the way, senators who said that they were not a no or not a yes and they were going to take this stuff very seriously, including Joni Ernst, who was the holdout for Pete Hegseth, didn't hold out for very long. Republicans are also struggling to codify the proposed cuts that they want to make to their budget reconciliation bill to offset the tax cuts that Donald Trump wants to give his billionaire buddies almost $5 trillion in tax cuts. Reuters reports that Republicans are weighing cuts to Medicaid, but are now deeply divided about how steep those cuts should be. Concerns about Medicaid among a dozen House Republicans and several Senate Republicans have prompted Trump and party leaders to assure lawmakers that their measures will not lead to cuts in benefits, though it's not clear what they mean. Senator Bernie Sanders hammered that issue to voters in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, at a rally tonight.

[Bernie Sanders]

The Republican leadership in the House and Senate are working on what is called a reconciliation bill. It's Trump's big, beautiful bill, and what this big, beautiful bill will do is cut over $800 billion in Medicaid, cut nutrition programs for hungry kids and cut educational programs. And at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, what they propose to do with those savings is to give over a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the 1%. Now, I am not in the habit of giving political advice to Republicans, but I would say this to Representative Perry. If you vote for tax breaks for billionaires and cut Medicaid, you will not be returning to Washington next.

[Ali Velshi]

Now polling this week. Several polls, by the way, show that Americans are souring on Donald Trump and his approval rating is, as the Washington Post noted, quote, lower than for any past president at the hundred day mark in their first or second terms. Donald Trump's handling of the economy and his tariffs earned him some of his lowest marks. Instead, it's earned him news story after news story about higher prices, product shortages, supply chain issues and potential job losses. The New York Times reports today more companies are starting to warn that they will have to pass on higher costs to American consumers, raising prices for products like strollers, mattresses, power tools, cast iron cookware as President Trump's tariffs take hold, Stanley back and Black and Decker said on Wednesday that it raised prices on its tools and outdoor products last month and will raise them again later this year. The German sportswear company Adidas said this week that steeper tariffs would eventually lead to higher prices for U.S. consumers. Executives at Procter and Gamble, which makes household products like Bounty paper towels and Tide detergent, said last week that the company would most likely increase prices for some products to mitigate the effects of higher tariffs. Officials at Hasbro recently said the toymaker would have to raise prices, although it would try to minimize the burden on consumers. One Pennsylvania small business owner who's trying to get the Christmas decorations from Germany that he needs early before the Trump tariffs will dou doubled the price of his cargo, told the Wall Street Journal, quote, quite frankly, I still don't know if we'll make it, he said of beating the deadline and being sure of only a 10% tariff. It's maddening as a business owner who relies on certainty to plan my budgets. Pittsburgh area business owners are feeling the increasingly fraught trading reality now that it's upending supply chains and hitting prices, with one brewery co founder telling the Guardian, quote, in a lot of ways it feels like Covid 2.0. So many things are getting disrupted so quickly, the brewery's chief operating officer says. For the first time as a company in operation going on 15 years, we've started to get explicit emails that say on this existing order. You're now going to see a 30% increase, then a 130% increase. Christmas is not the only holiday that Donald Trump is going to make more expensive. NBC News reports that Trump tariffs are threatening Fourth of July celebrations. US Fireworks wholesalers and distributors say they've been canceling shipments from China for this year for the July 4 holiday. Some are also halting manufacturing in China of fireworks for the next year's celebrations of the 250th anniversary of America's independence. The companies say the tariffs are too steep to absorb and that hiking prices on consumers to offset them would make their products unaffordable. Even if tariffs on fireworks were lifted soon, it's too late to ramp up production in time to meet U.S. demand. And Donald Trump caught flak, including from the New York Post, for saying your kids might only be able to buy two dolls this Christmas and the dolls will be more expensive. Meanwhile, he wants to spend potentially tens of millions of your taxpayer dollars to bring out American tanks for a military parade for his birthday. Vox reporter Dara Lynn noted that there's a hint of Trump resistance in the reporting about the Trump military parade. Quote One way to read stories based on leaked docs look at the time from being circulated to docs being published, because that's the amount of time it took to a get someone pissed enough to agree to leak it, and b get someone also pissed enough to confirm. These are the slides dated April 29 to April 30, published on May 1. Look, it's not just you and me who can see the polls. Republicans see them, too. They can hear the voter outrage at the town halls, some of which they don't attend. It's why many of them have stopped holding them altogether. Although Democrats sometimes hold them in Republican districts, they know they're going to face tough fights ahead in the midterm elections if Donald Trump's approval on everything from the economy to immigration to his flouting of the courts to cuts to federal government get worse. Here's the Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman Chris D'Aluisio at that rally with Bernie Sanders in Harrisburg.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

They wrapped themselves in stars and stripes, by the way, wearing their made in China MAGA hats. We know that. Come on. I'll tell you what. It sure as hell wasn't patriotic to pardon January 6 rioters and cop beaters. It's not patriotic to gut Social Security. It's not patriotic to gut Veterans Affair and Veterans Care. They are waging war on the American dream. You feel it? I'll tell you what's patriotic, standing your ground and fighting back, which is what you're all doing right now. Your prescription drugs aren't costing you an arm and a leg because of woke culture. That's not what hollowed out factory towns. Owning a home or childcare hasn't got expensive because of a trans person seeking dignity in their life. That has not made life more expensive.

[Ali Velshi]

Pretty powerful message in a state that Democrats see as key to winning back the House next year. Congressman DeLuzio is going to be our first guest tonight. Donald Trump's Open Corruption, by the way, is also making headlines and potential problems for Republicans. NBC News reports how some Senate Republicans are raising concerns about an exclusive dinner and White House tour. I don't know if you've heard about this, by the way, it is wild exclusive dinner and White House tour that President Trump is offering top investors, not donors to the Republican Party, not donors to the campaign, not donors to his presidential museum, investors in his Trump meme token. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to come and charge people to come into the Capitol and take a tour, republican Senator Lisa Murkowski told NBC News on Thursday, quote, this gives me pause, said Republican Senator Cynthia Loomis of Wyoming. When I hear things like this, my reaction is we need to legislate. So there are rules, end quote. Most of us thought there were rules about this to start with, that you couldn't actually just have people give you money to go see a public building. As Trump looks weaker, entities he's attacking are becoming bolder. Harvard University has shown it's not going to lie down to Donald Trump's threats with its president telling the Wall Street Journal any attempt by Donald Trump to remove its tax exempt stat would be highly illegal, end quote. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting today just flatly rejecting Donald Trump's attempt to end their public funding, saying in a defiant statement, quote, cpb is not a federal executive agency subject to the president's authority. Congress directly authorized and funded CBP to be a private nonprofit corporation wholly independent of the federal government, end quote. The cracks in Trump 2.0 are showing and the attacks from the opposition are only growing.

[Bernie Sanders]

If we understand that at the end of the day, 99% is a hell of a larger number than 1%. If we have the courage to go outside of our zones of comfort, talk to other people. Talk to your Republican friends. They don't think that billionaires should get tax breaks. They don't think that Musk should be destroying Social Security. So let us stand together. Let us Defeat oligarchy. Let us defeat authoritarianism and create a government and economy that works for all of us, not just a few. Thank you all very much.

[Ali Velshi]

I said that was in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. This man was there, too. The Democratic Congressman Chris D'Aluisio of Pennsylvania joined Senator Sanders today in Harrisburg as part of Senator Sanders Fighting Oligarchy tour. Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

Ali, thanks for having me on.

[Ali Velshi]

This is an issue. The polling is indicating people are dissatisfied with a bunch of things. It's not just the economy. It's Doge. It's the cuts. It's the cuts to Veterans affairs, the cuts to Medicaid. But. But the economy is always the biggest issue. It was the biggest issue in the election. It will continue to be the biggest issue going into it. If people are mad about the economy right now, you ain't seen nothing yet. Most of these tariffs have not hit. They haven't come into place yet. Most of the job losses that will follow have not started yet. We saw some from UPS and others earlier this week. You're not even seeing the effects of this disastrous economic policy that also seems to have no end goal.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

Well, and you're starting to see the beginnings, as you say, Ali, Trump's tariffs and his trade war. It's been reckless. And I say that as a guy from steel country who knows we've got to get a better manufacturing and trade policy. But we're already seeing the impacts to GDP and to growth in this country. And we've had, we finally return the ship around about more private manufacturing investment, finally starting to see some job growth. And Donald Trump is using the levers of the presidency to wreck quality of life for people. It is, it is a dangerous thing. And listen, I get it. I'm an elected office, I'm in politics. But this hurts my constituents and people all over this country. It's not hypothetical.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah. You also get that because you come from a part of the country where manufacturing was so big and is less big now, and people still imagine it, it coming back. It's complicated and it's nuanced. If you want factories and manufacturing in, in central Pennsylvania or, or Michigan or Indiana, that is something you have to attract over time. The factories take time to build. You attract that investment. The investment depends on consistency in policy making. Right. It's why it's easier to build a factory in America than it is in Turkey or Hungary, where you have no idea whether the policies are going to change on a yearly basis, let alone a monthly or Weekly basis. Like we're seeing. We're not in an environment where people are going to come and build factories in America right now where they have no idea what's happening.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

Far from it. You talk to business leaders in my western Pennsylvania district or anywhere else, the uncertainty is killing the business environment. Workers are suffering. If you want to be a leader who wants to invest in an American factory and you're looking at tariffs changing day to day, how the heck do you plan? And so that is leaving money on the table that we could see invest in more capacity here at home. It just shows the recklessness of what the President's doing. And again, I say that as a guy who knows we got to get manufacturing right, we gotta rebalance trade and.

[Ali Velshi]

We want the right kind of manufacturer doing it right. We want the jobs that are going to pay well. We're putting tariffs on countries that, so textiles that we don't actually, we don't want those jobs back. We want like chip manufacturing, like high end manufacturing, like the kind of stuff that they were doing in Pennsylvania. The idea of using tariffs as a, as I was describing, a bag of hammers to build a house, right, you need a hammer or two. You don't need all hammers, you need other tools. Tariffs are a precision tool to achieve specific policy goals and that is not the way this administration seems to be employing them.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

No, Donald Trump's tariffs are nothing, nothing close to that. And I mean, look, let's take a different kind of way they could be doing this. Let's think about our national security, our defense industrial base. We need a shipbuilding industry, we need a defense industrial base. Right? Those are places where if communist China is breaking the rules, subsidizing their industry, let's see some targeted enforcement paired with investment here at home. It's an imperative we get things like chips manufacturing in this country. But again, that is not what this president's strategy has been. The Trump tariffs are really wrecking Pennsylvania. In our economy. We're seeing it from farmers to manufacturing and certainly retail and small businesses are feeling the squeeze.

[Ali Velshi]

Small businesses, you mentioned that Apple managed to cut some deal where the tariffs are not going to come in on the iPhones. They've also said that they'll make, I think in the coming quarter. The majority of iPhones sold in the, sold in the United States would mean in India. But they're Apple, they can do that. All those companies that I talked to in the intro to this, fireworks companies, you know, small companies that have to make their plans, they have to order now for Christmas, they're not Apple. They can't make those choices. They have to guess as to whether those tariffs are coming in or not and whether they should order things now or not, whether people are not going to be able to afford the products. And they don't order the fireworks because they'll just get stuck with them.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

Yeah, you mentioned a brewer. I know the brewers are feeling a lot of pressure right now. I've heard from a florist in my district. We could spend this whole interview talking about the kinds of calls my team and folks like me have gotten from entrepreneurs, small businesses who want to grow their businesses in America, and they are suffering under this.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned florists. Most of the flowers sold in this country are not grown in this country for good reason. The climate doesn't allow us to grow. So we buy them from Colombia and places in South America. How do companies like this, what do they do in this environment? What does uncertainty do to. To. To people? We know that we saw in the first quarter people buying more cars because they wanted to get ahead of the tariff. But that's an individual. An individual can make that choice for themselves. What does a business do?

[Chris D'Aluisio]

Yeah, I think you asked the exact question. And when they have the President and his team changing day to day, what the Trump tariffs will be, which sector, which country, it is no way to plan. And it doesn't change the fact that if you're a small business owner, entrepreneur, this might be something that kills your business. And at a moment when we know costs are too darn high, we know monopolies have put the squeeze on small businesses, Man, I can't think of a worse way to go about leading this country.

[Ali Velshi]

Congressman, good to have you here on the show tonight. Thank you for joining us. Congressman Chris D'Aluzio of Pennsylvania. One of the Republican lawmakers feeling the heat is Congressman Derek Van Orden, who represents Wisconsin's 3rd congressional district. In the last election, Donald Trump won that district by seven points. But this week, the Cook Political report moved Wisconsin's 3rd district from lean Republican to toss up. Congressman Van Orden has been avoiding in person town halls, but his voters did show up last month to ask questions of an empty chair that was left there for Van Orden.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

Elon Musk proposes to cut tens of thousands of jobs from the Veterans Administration.

[Ali Velshi]

My question is, how is that going.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

To improve services to veterans?

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

I am a college student here, and I guess my question for Derek Van.

[Ali Velshi]

Orden is, will I have a future?

[Chris D'Aluisio]

My question for Mr. Van Orden is.

[Ali Velshi]

Where are you and how can your constituents reach you? Our next guest, Rebecca Cook, lost to Congressman Van orden by just two points in 2024. She's running against him. But as she told us when she announced she's still working her day job. And where are you right now? Because I want to just draw where you got cups and dishes. I have a little bit of a.

[Rebecca Cook]

Different backdrop than you might be in some of your interviews. So I just got done waitressing. I work at a restaurant in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. I grew up working class, and I'm still working class. I grew up on a dairy farm.

[Ali Velshi]

Joining us now, Rebecca Cook, Democratic congressional candidate in Wisconsin's third District. Rebecca, nice to see you again. Thank you for being with us. I think I got you a little later than your shift, maybe because you're not. You're not in the restaurant. This is having a difference. Derek Van Orden didn't show up. People did. They asked him questions. This is repeating itself across the country. Democrats who are not from those districts, either they're from neighboring districts or out of town or out of state or people like you who are in there and not elected are showing up to listen to these constituents. And that seems to count for a lot. The fact that constituents are being heard by somebody seems to count for a lot.

[Rebecca Cook]

No, I, you know, I think it really does. I think there's a lot of chaos and a lack of stability that has people really very worried. You know, in my district, there's senior citizens and folks that are protesting every Wednesday in Eau Claire about their concerns about Medicare, cuts to Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security, and people are really showing up. Those crowds continue to grow each week, and it's really clear that people like Derek Van Orden, who has failed to show up at any sort of town hall or to address his constituents in person, want to cozy up to caviar conservatives, people like Donald Trump, and we'll see how that plays out for him next November.

[Ali Velshi]

I want to just talk a little bit about Wisconsin tariffs and exports. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel wrote this about Wisconsin export values having fallen in the past decade and that tariffs may make it worse. The tariffs could take a further toll on the state's already declining exports and by extension, a toll on Wisconsin's manufacturing industry, which relies heavily on exports and accounts for more than 18% of the state's private sector jobs. Wisconsin business exports goods to nearly 200 countries, but the leading destinations of these exports have remained the same over the last decade. Canada The European Union, Mexico and China. Together, those four regions import about two thirds of all Wisconsin exports, according to the Wisconsin Policy Forum report. This is interesting because you don't have to be an economist to get this, that Wisconsin exports goods to these certain countries. These certain countries are now countries on which we are going to impose tariffs, in some cases massive tariffs. They will do what countries do when you impose tariffs on them, they'll find someone else to buy from or to sell to. And that's the problem. These relationships between Wisconsin and Canada, Wisconsin, the European Union, Wisconsin and China have taken decades to establish. It'll be a very disruptive exercise to try and say, hey, we've got all these goods we're going to sell, we're going to find other markets for them.

[Rebecca Cook]

No, absolutely. And you know, I think in particular it's going to have a real impact on our agricultural communities and on farmers. I've had a lot of conversations with folks in my district. I myself grew up on a dairy farm here. And I think that this administration isn't looking in the long term. And I think regular people are already struggling. You know, they're living paycheck to paycheck, putting their groceries on a credit card. And I don't think that there's a lot of foresight on not only the impact that this is going to have on business and our economy, but that, that impact that this is going to have on consumers and folks that already trying to afford unforeseen bills like their car breaking down or a hospital visit.

[Ali Velshi]

And you, you grew up on a farm. You, you understand that if you're not a corporate farm, which a lot of farms are in America, they're big, they're parts of big corporations, Europe, you're a family farm. The times are tough without this nonsense.

[Rebecca Cook]

Yeah, I mean, folks are already holding on by a string. And you know, the way that farmers are planning, they're, you know, not planning a crop season week by week, they're planning that months in advance. And so the way that this administration has really taken a hatchet to our agricultural sector I think is very short sighted on their part.

[Ali Velshi]

Rebecca Cook, good to talk to you. Thank you for being with us. Rebecca Cook is a Democratic candidate for Congress in Wisconsin's third Congressional District. Coming up with the era of Elon Musk trying to chainsaw the federal government seemingly maybe sort of coming to an end, all we have is a lot of claims of a job well done with zero evidence. We'll discuss that next. How many discounts does USAA Auto insurance offer Too many to say here. Multi Vehicle Discount Safe Driver Discount New vehicle Discount Storage discount How many discounts.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Ali Velshi]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Ali Velshi]

The era of Elon Musk chainsawing the federal government appears to be ending after reports that his bosses on the Tesla board are not happy at what happened to be a what appeared to be a Cabinet meeting swan song. Here's what Musk said.

[Max Steer]

Well, thanks to your fantastic leadership, this.

[Ali Velshi]

Amazing Cabinet, and the very talented Doge.

[Max Steer]

Team, I'm excited to announce that we anticipate savings in FY26 from reduction of waste and fraud by $150 billion.

[Ali Velshi]

$150 billion. That claim came accompanied with let me just zero evidence to back it up, but let's say it's true. $150 billion. You remember what Musk said he was going to do when he came in? Vivek Ramaswamy was going to do it with him. $2 trillion in cuts for those keeping score at home. That's 8%. And that's before considering how much Musk might have cost taxpayers. The New York Times reports that the Partnership for Public Service, a nonprofit organization that studies the federal workforce force, have used budget figures to produce a rough estimate that firings, rehirings, lost productivity and paid leave for thousands of workers will cost upward of $135 billion this fiscal year. At the Internal Revenue Service, a Doge driven exodus of 22,000 employees would cost about $8.5 billion in revenue in 2026 alone, according to figures from the budget Lab at Y. Of these estimates includes the cost to taxpayers of defending Doge's moves in court because kind of everything they've done has been challenged in court of about 200 lawsuits and appeals related to Mr. Trump's agenda, at least 30 implicate Doge. Joining us now for a Doge damage assessment is Max Steer. He's the founding president and CEO of the Partnership for Public Service. Hi, Max. Welcome. This is a tricky one to calculate. How do you calculate what the cost of firing people costs? If you're not a business person, you don't realize that there is a cost associated with getting rid of an employee.

[Melanie Stansbury]

Yeah. And I think that the bigger problem is that they're not simply costing a lot of money. They're destroying unbelievably important assets of the American people. I mean, this last 100 days has seen the most significant damage to our government than we've seen not only in any 100 day period, but in any administration ever. You noted, and I think correctly, that, that they haven't saved the $160 billion. To the extent they've saved anything, the money that they've saved is the equivalent of someone saying, I'm not going to pay my electricity bill and they wind up sitting around in the dark. It's easy to cut things. It's not easy to cut things in ways that actually create real value. The cuts that they've made have done the opposite. The people cuts are the most damaging. They've gone after federal employees. The headcount of the federal workforce today is the same size as it was in 1969. There are undoubtedly people that ought to be fired, poor performers, perhaps occupations where we have too many people, they did none of that work. They simply went in an arbitrary fashion getting rid of, in many instances, actually the most talented and most needed people.

[Ali Velshi]

Yeah. This is an important point. This wasn't a performance audit. This wasn't a. Is this government? Is this department too big? Because that would be a real exercise that would involve Congress and, and, and auditors. And I don't even bring McKinsey in or something like that. That would actually be a real exercise that, that you do. And what your figures and what Yale's Budget Labs figures don't come take into account is the cost of the loss of the soft power, getting rid of things like usaid, the cost of cuts to research to NIH that are going to find solutions to diseases that we don't even have now, that we don't even know we have, that will be solved. The cost of these employees being fired who now are not taxpayers, are not consumers and are not contributing to the economy.

[Melanie Stansbury]

Yeah. And I think again, the real issue here, and the starting point is one that you flagged earlier. And that is that it's actually not the job of the executive branch to decide what agencies should exist. The job of the executive branch is to execute. Congress decides what the purposes of the agencies and where the money should be spent. The activities that you're seeing in Doge are fundamentally unconstitutional and illegal. And they're also just hurting the American people and the American taxpayer. They're not solving for waste, they're creating waste.

[Ali Velshi]

Where, oh, where could my Congress members be right? They could, they could just, they could stop this. The Republican Congress could just say, as Rand Paul said the other day in the Senate, this just isn't your job, it's ours. Let us do the job.

[Melanie Stansbury]

I think that is the most fundamental issue here. We're watching a presidency that has absorbed and swallowed the entire government. The founders designed our government, starting with Article 1 for Congress to do again. The purpose and the budget and the President's supposed to execute. They're not only getting rid of agencies, but they're also getting rid of the people that are fundamentally responsible for doing the work that Congress has asked them to do or require them to do. This is a mess of epic proportions. You mentioned usaid. There's certainly other agencies that have also been cut. But the reality is that every single American is going to be hurt here in a variety of ways. Farmers, business, veterans. We're seeing the front edge of a wave of action that is going to cost for many years to come.

[Ali Velshi]

Max, good to talk to you. Thank you for being with us. Max Dyer. We're going to get reaction from the top Democrat on the Doge subcommittee right after this.

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[Ali Velshi]

Joining us now for more on the Doge damage assessment is the Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury, the top Democrat on the Doge subcommittee. Congressman, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Great to see you too.

[Ali Velshi]

Can you help me with a word? I'm from Canada and to describe what Doge has said it was going to do and then achieved, the word we would use in Canada is bs. It hasn't come close. It may have done substantially more damage than it's caused. It was disorganized. And I'm kind of worried that there's something else to this. In fact, it was so ineffective that I'm worried about whether this was just a data dump that now Elon Musk and Doge and Big Balls have all of our data and are set up to be a surveillance mechanism for Americans.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Well, now I know you're Canadian, you're much more polite than I am. But I mean, Elon Musk has a serious math problem. This is one of the key issues that we've been trying to say since day one. The Republicans, Donald Trump and others are trying to act like he's some sort of tech genius. And this dude can't even produce a single spreadsheet. The ads, he can't even produce math. The maths he promised $2 trillion, then he promised $1 trillion and now he's promising like a billion plus dollars. But even so, like your previous guest just alluded to, between the damages in the courts, the irreconcilable damage that he's done with the mass firings, the dismantling of federal age, I mean there are now over 220 federal court cases and over 130 federal court injunctions because of the activities of what the executive has done just over the last hundred days, he helps support the tanking of the economy. He helps support the tanking of public confidence. His approval ratings are less than 35%. I mean, the American people have spoken loud and clear. This guy needs to go he's tanked his own private business, he's helped to tank our economy, and he's totally destroyed the federal government. And everything he's touched has completely turned to garbage since then.

[Ali Velshi]

But here's the thing. Bill Clinton and Al Gore tried to do this when they were in office, and the jury's out as to whether they succeeded. They certainly reduced federal government employment, but they ended up outsourcing a whole bunch of things. A bunch of things. And we developed this thing where contractors do most of the work. So that's part of why Elon Musk has been inefficient, because you're not going to save that much money firing government employees. Contracting is where most of the work is done. This feels like Congress's work to have done, to have sat there and had hearings and determined what should or shouldn't be done with federal agencies.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Oh, well, clearly, I mean, that is the source of all of these federal lawsuits. It is clearly within the purview of Congress to decide what agencies should exist and not exist. There are federal employment laws in place because Congress passed them, and also because during the administration of absolute ill repute, the Nixon administration, there was so many abuses. The federal workforce, we pass laws to protect the federal workforce from the kind of mass firings and politically motivated things that we've seen during the Trump administration. All of these things are under the purview of Congress. Now, my colleagues across the aisle know this very clearly. You showed some clips of some members who've been brave enough to actually speak up. But the fact that they've been trying to move legislation through the reconciliation package, through other pieces of legislation, to undermine congressional authority, indicates that they're trying to backdoor legislative authority to Elon Musk, even though the American people have completely rejected.

[Ali Velshi]

They don't want that.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Yeah, no, they don't want that. And the entire enterprise is pretty much a. A criminal enterprise at this point. In addition to Americans speaking loudly that they reject the cuts to Social Security and Medicaid and all these programs, as you just mentioned, it's very clear that Elon Musk, whether or not he has achieved any savings through this whole Doge enterprise, has soon to exit the building with billions of dollars in new federal contracts, the most valuable data sets on planet Earth, which is all of the private data, the American people and of the federal government. And he's going to take him to his private AI company and his communication companies. And because of the lawless way in which they've done it, our only remedy is to go to the courts and make sure that they're held accountable.

[Ali Velshi]

I mean, the judge, the courts told them, you can't hold that information. I have zero faith that Elon Musk and Harry Balz are not holding that information. And I have no idea what their plans are for it because they've got it. I'm not an engineer who knows what they're going to do with it. Very worrisome. Congresswoman, good to see you as always. Thank you. Melanie Stansberry, Congressman, the United States Senate, United States House. Coming up, Democrats running with the hopes of retaking the Senate next year are wasting no time reminding voters who's to blame for the Trump tariffs. That's next. Donald Trump spent his 100th day in Michigan trying to sell his tariff chaos. The Detroit Free Press interviewed Michiganders about Trump's tariffs. Amy, 45, from Warren, Michigan, a small business owner who said she voted for Trump in 2020 and 2024, said the president has lost her support over tariffs. Quote, I've made good money selling on TikTok, but I import from China, she said. So now I just lost my small business. Joining us now is Abdul El Sayed, a Democrat from Michigan. He's running for the United states Senate in 2026. Abdul, good to see you. Thank you for being with us today.

[Max Steer]

Thanks for having me.

[Ali Velshi]

Ali, you are in a very interesting place. You're in Warren, Michigan, in which they build cars. And you not only have car factories, but you got parts operations. The city exists on the fact that there is an automobile industry for automobile manufacturers in the United States. The discussion about tariffs is complicated. They would like more tariffs on some cars, but they don't want tariffs on everything.

[Max Steer]

You're absolutely right. Look, my dad worked in Warren, literally immigrated to this country to work in the automotive industry. Auto is everything in Michigan. And we watched as NAFTA fundamentally destroyed towns across our state. And so we understand how important it is to be able to protect and grow the automotive industry. And at the same time, what Trump just did, that ain't it. What he's done is raised prices on people with this. There is a world in which tariffs could be used, be used, kind of like chemotherapy to treat cancer, to take on some of the rot that NAFTA and other trade deals have created. But everybody knows if you use chemo and you give the patient all the chemo, at the same time, you kill the patient.

[Ali Velshi]

Being a doctor really helps here because Donald Trump calls it a beautiful word. And whatever, the most beautiful word, it's neither a beautiful word, nor an ugly word. It is a tool. It is like hemoth therapy. If used properly, you can achieve a predetermined goal. But you don't throw chemotherapy at everything all the time. And everyone.

[Max Steer]

That's exactly right. And if you're going to give a patient chemo, you give them a little bit in the right place at the right time for the right reasons. And that's how tariffs could be used if we were serious about growing auto manufacturing and other kinds of manufacturing in our state and other states like it. But you have to be thoughtful and engaged. And the problem with Trump is that when he does anything, it's always going to be ham handed. It's going to be chaotic and it's going to be self serving. And that's exactly what we saw out of these terrorists that are now raising prices for folks all across our country and in our state.

[Ali Velshi]

Abdul, I could talk to you for hours about this, so hopefully I can. The bosses won't let me at the moment. They have to say I have to give my show to somebody else right now. So good to have you. Thank you for being with us. Abdul Al Said is running for the Senate. He's been endorsed by Bernie Sanders. All right. Tonight's Last Word is next. All right, a quick programming note. More velshi starting tomorrow. Our new expanded show is a super sized three hours, 10am to 1pm every Saturday and Sunday. I hope you'll join us.

[Chris D'Aluisio]

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