Historic preservation group warns Trump ballroom will ‘overwhelm’ White House

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Host: Jacob Soboroff (guest hosting for Lawrence O’Donnell)
Episode: Historic preservation group warns Trump ballroom will ‘overwhelm’ White House
Date: October 23, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode addresses major intersecting stories in the current American political landscape, focusing particularly on the far-reaching consequences of Donald Trump's latest decisions regarding the White House, the ongoing government shutdown, mass protests against authoritarianism, and Republican political fractures. Jacob Soboroff leads listeners through critical news: Trump's controversial plan for a $250 million ballroom at the White House (and its implications for historic preservation), the massive "No Kings Day" protests, the chilling deployment of federal troops in American cities, attacks on critical infrastructure in New Jersey, and extraordinary impacts on SNAP benefits, health insurance, and immigration. The show features guests Ezra Levin (Indivisible Project), Harry Litman (legal analyst and podcast host), Senator Alex Padilla (CA), and Brent Johnson (NJ.com).

---

1. Trump’s White House Ballroom & Historic Preservation Backlash

Key Discussion Points:

• Trump plans to demolish the White House East Wing to build a $250 million ballroom.
• He claims the project “won’t touch” the main building, but the National Trust for Historic Preservation objects.
• They warn the “massing and height” will “overwhelm the White House itself” and urge a pause for legal public review.
• Trump insists he doesn't need federal approval from the National Capital Planning Commission.

Notable Quote:

"We are deeply concerned that the massing and the height of the proposed new construction will overwhelm the White House itself."
— National Trust for Historic Preservation [02:17]

Timestamp: [01:42]–[03:25]

---

2. The “No Kings Day” Protest & Growing Anti-Authoritarian Movement

Key Discussion Points:

• Largest peaceful protest in American history: 7 million protesters across all 50 states.
• Ezra Levin: Indivisible Project, describes the explosive growth of the protest movement (3 million in April, then 5 million, then 7 million).
• Movement is targeting not just Congress but also institutions ("media, universities, law firms, businesses") that uphold democracy.
• Protesters using tactical ridicule (“laughtivism”) instead of fear—making it harder for authoritarian leaders to dominate public spirit.
• Protests described as “contagious,” simultaneously breaking out in various cities in response to ICE raids and federal troop deployments.

Notable Quotes:

“Saturday was historic… but it wasn't just a one-day protest. Americans… want to take action. The movement is building.”
— Ezra Levin [09:00]

“This regime wants to be feared… [but] they really don’t want to be ridiculed. So I highly encourage people to make use of this tool… Do not give the authoritarians what they want. Don't let them take your power, but don't let them take your joy either.”
— Ezra Levin [11:19]

Memorable Moment:

• Protesters dressed as unicorns and with irreverent signs, mocking Trump’s authoritarian image.

Timestamps:

• Crowd movement context: [07:48]–[12:24]

---

3. Ongoing Government Shutdown: National Consequences

Key Discussion Points:

• 22nd day of the government shutdown, millions affected.
• 42 million Americans at risk of losing food assistance (SNAP).
• Sharp rise in health insurance premiums in several states due to expiring ACA tax credits; some will see annual costs double or rise to $31,000+.
• Trump demanding $230 million from taxpayers for damages supposedly incurred from federal investigations.
• New polling: 65% of Americans think the Trump economy is headed in the wrong direction, including one third of Republicans.

Notable Quote:

“His demand for a $230 million payment from American taxpayers fits with an unconscionable pattern of self-dealing by the President and his family.”
— New York Times editorial, read by Jacob Soboroff [06:40]

Timestamps: [01:42]–[07:48]

---

4. Legal Fight Over Trump’s Use of Federal Troops in U.S. Cities

Key Discussion Points:

• Trump uses “emergency powers” to deploy National Guard and Marines to cities like Los Angeles, Chicago, Portland, citing supposed “rebellion” or “invasion.”
• The State of California and others challenge the legality—days of oral arguments in the Ninth Circuit.
• Trump-appointed judges on the panel skeptical of administration arguments.
• Supreme Court expected to decide whether this use of emergency powers is legal.
• If greenlit, Trump could deploy troops nationwide—even to polling places on Election Day.

Notable Quotes:

“No court has ever held that something like this would be a rebellion… but that’s what the administration is asserting.”
— Harry Litman [18:50]

“If they greenlight it, this is really the big test for the Supreme Court. I think if they greenlight it, I think he can do all kinds of things with it. And all indications are he will.”
— Harry Litman [22:16]

Timestamps: [15:08]–[23:19]

---

5. Immigration Policy: Political Fractures and Human Impact

Key Discussion Points:

• Escalation of ICE raids—including schools, workplaces, and houses of worship.
• Senator Alex Padilla (CA) recounts his own removal by federal agents at a protest; relates the policy to his personal experience as a son of immigrants.
• Growing Republican discomfort: Rep. Maria Salazar (R-FL) says ICE is targeting "good hombres," i.e., law-abiding undocumented immigrants.
• ICE’s claims—"70% of arrests are criminals, the rest are national security threats"—called out as false.
• Senator Padilla emphasizes immigrants’ contributions to CA economy; abuses of power damage both morale in National Guard/Marines and the fabric of communities.

Notable Quotes:

“If immigrants are that bad, why is that where you’re looking for them?”
— Senator Alex Padilla [26:44]

“He has crossed the line from democracy to dictatorship.”
— Senator Alex Padilla, on Trump deploying troops against dissent [30:57]

“Morale is extremely low… That’s the kind of work National Guards, women and men… sign up to do—not to be pitted against their friends and neighbors…”
— Senator Alex Padilla [34:28]

Memorable Moment:

• Padilla’s emotional recounting of his family’s immigrant background and his defense of working-class immigrants’ rights.

Timestamps: [25:43]–[37:29]

---

6. Wildfires, Federal Response, and Bipartisan Legislation

Key Discussion Points:

• Padilla and the impact of the National Guard’s redeployment on wildfire mitigation.
• Bipartisan “Fix Our Forests Act” to expedite fuel breaks, establish wildfire intelligence centers, and improve disaster response.

Notable Quote:

“That’s the kind of common sense action that Californians are desperate for, along with Americans throughout the West and beyond.”
— Senator Alex Padilla [36:18]

Timestamp: [35:39]–[37:29]

---

7. New Jersey’s Gubernatorial Race & Trump’s Infrastructure Cuts

Key Discussion Points:

• Early voting begins with Dem Mikie Sherrill leading Trump-backed Jack Cittarelli by 5 points (tight race, heavy Trump influence).
• Trump halts funding for the Hudson River Rail Tunnel—critical for millions of NJ/NY commuters.
• Cittarelli scrambles to distance himself from the unpopular move, while Sherrill and Dems hammer the issue.
• Polls show voters are deeply split on taxes and affordability despite state’s blue tilt.
• Obama set to campaign for Sherrill.

Notable Quotes:

“It’s a project a lot of New Jerseyans know… People who commute into New Jersey, which is a sizable portion of our population here, they go into New York every day and they know how big of a deal this is.”
— Brent Johnson [43:29]

“If there’s a catastrophic failure, the death toll could be significant.”
— Jacob Soboroff [41:37]

Timestamps: [39:00]–[46:08]

---

Memorable Quotes (By Timestamp)

• National Trust: “We are deeply concerned that the massing and the height of the proposed new construction will overwhelm the White House itself.” [02:17]
• Ezra Levin: “They want to take action. The movement is building… 3 million in April, 5 million in June, 7 million on Saturday.” [09:00]
• Ezra Levin: “Don’t let them take your power, but don’t let them take your joy either.” [11:19]
• New York Times editorial: “His demand for a $230 million payment from American taxpayers fits with an unconscionable pattern of self-dealing…” [06:40]
• Harry Litman: “No court has ever held that something like this would be a rebellion… but that’s what the administration is asserting.” [18:50]
• Sen. Padilla: “He has crossed the line from democracy to dictatorship.” [30:57]
• Brent Johnson: “Polls are showing a tightening race. It’s a close race. But Sherrill has led in every poll so far…” [44:22]

---

Structure & Flow

• The episode stitches together high-impact reporting, live interviews, and on-the-ground protest coverage.
• Tonally, the show is urgent, impassioned, and focused on accountability, echoing activist and expert voices.
• The structure moves from high-level White House news to grassroots mobilization, to court battles, then to the granular impact of government decisions on health, immigration, and local politics.

---

For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is essential listening for understanding the current crisis in American democracy. The host and guests chart how Trump’s actions—whether bulldozing the White House’s history, militarizing U.S. cities, or slashing public needs during a government shutdown—have generated broad and noisy resistance. The “No Kings Day” protest signals a growing, joyful, and powerful mass movement. Courts are only now weighing in on the limits of presidential power; politicians and the public face stark choices as the next elections approach and critical services hang in the balance.

---

Note: All timestamps are in MM:SS format. This summary skips commercials and non-content sections as requested.

Transcript

[Jacob Soboroff]

If you could hear love, what would it sound like? Son, can we talk about your drinking?

Yeah, Dad, I think we should.

Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like. [e-mail] an OHA initiative. It's Cybersecurity Awareness Month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams.

And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice.

LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected with a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com Specialoffer terms of the Last Word.

Starts right now with Jacob Sobroff. And for Lawrence. Hey, Jacob, I'm so happy to see you sitting in that chair on the other side. Jen Psaki, what's up? It was so, so good to see you at MSNBC Live. I had so much fun with you. And you know what it felt like to me? A little appetizer for the no Kings Day protest. Totally. It was kind of perfectly timed. It was so good for the soul and just a reminder of the importance of community and seeing people in person. And it was a smaller, much smaller version of the no Kings protest of sorts, but it, it was very fun and powerful and soul giving still. I saw you at Ezra on last night and I had fomo. So we're going to talk to him in just a little bit. But I'll let you go and I'll see you tomorrow.

[Harry Lippman]

Great.

[Jacob Soboroff]

I look forward to watching. Have a great show. All right, Jen, thanks so much. On the 22nd day of the government shutdown, with millions of Americans hurting, Donald Trump continues to take a wrecking ball to the White House. Today. We know that Trump lied about the project and that the entire east wing of the White House is being torn down to be replaced by Donald Trump's $250 million ballroom project. It won't interfere with the current building. It won't be. It'll be near it but not touching it. And pays total respect to the existing building, which I'm the biggest fan of. He's the biggest fan of it. The National Trust for Historic Preservation, a nonprofit agency created by Congress to protect and preserve historic buildings, warned this quote, we are deeply concerned that the massing and the height of the proposed new construction will overwhelm the White House itself. We respectfully urge the administration and the National Park Service to pause demolition until plans for the proposed ballroom go through the legally required public review process, including consultation and review by the National Capital Planning Commission and and the Commission of Fine Arts, and to invite comment from the public. Four days after 7 million Americans took part in the no Kings protest against Donald Trump's authoritarianism, Donald Trump is insisting that he doesn't need approval from the National Capital Planning Commission, that the agency approves renovations for federal buildings, and he doesn't need their approval at all. Today, Republican Senator Thom Tillis said this we're talking about building a ballroom when we're trying to get the economy squared away.

[Harry Lippman]

Timing's bad.

[Jacob Soboroff]

New polling today shows that nearly 65% of Americans believe that under Donald Trump the economy is headed in the wrong direction. 65%. That number includes nearly one third of Republicans who are not happy with the Trump economy. All of this as 42 million Americans are at risk of losing critical food assistance if the shutdown continues. State officials have begun issuing warnings to Americans who rely on Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits to pay for groceries that they may be forced to suspend snap benefits after November 1st. That includes states that voted for Donald Trump, states like Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Kansas, Texas, Missouri while Republicans will not negotiate with Democrats who won't vote for a bill to reopen the government unless it includes demands to extend tax credits and in the Affordable Care act. According to a Kaiser Family foundation analysis, the expiration of the enhanced premium tax credits is estimated to more than double what subsidized enrollees currently pay annually for their premiums. That is a 114% increase from an average of $888 in 2025 to $1904 in 2026, the Washington Post reports. The situation is particularly acute in Georgia, which recorded the second highest enrollment of any state run marketplace this year and posted prices for 2026 earlier in October. About 96% of Marketplace enrollees in Georgia received subsidies this year, according to the center on Budget and Policy Priorities. Now, Georgians browsing the state website are seeing estimated monthly costs double or even triple, depending on their incomes as lower subsidy thresholds resume. For example, a family of4 earning $82,000 a year in Georgia could see their annual premium double to around $7,000 for a plan with mid range coverage, according to a CBPP analysis that family if they earned $130,000, they would have to pay the full cost of the annual premium about $24,000 instead of $11,000. It's a similar story in other states where people in higher income tiers will see especially big premium increases as they become ineligible for subsidies. A 60 year old couple earning $85,000 may have to pay $31,000 for a plan in Kentucky, $28,000 for a plan in Oregon, and $44,000 for a plan in Vermont, according to CBPP. And now, while millions of Americans are struggling to put food on the table, struggling to pay for health care, Donald Trump wants taxpayers to pay him $230 million in compensation for the federal investigations into him, according to the New York Times. Today, the New York Times editorial board writes in an article titled Trump wants the American people to pay him $230 million, quote, the larger point is not about the two investigations or the supposed damage to him. Even if the cases against him had been weaker than they were, and even if he could point to personal damage, he should not be using his power as president to award himself damages. His demand for a $230 million payment from American taxpayers fits with an unconscionable pattern of self dealing by the President and his family. He hosted a dinner for people who bought the most Trump branded cryptocurrency. His company, the Trump Organization, is collaborating on real estate projects with Middle Eastern countries that rely on the United States. In many ways, he has engaged in similar conflicts of interest with Serbia and Vietnam. The list goes on and on. Mr. Trump should not profit from his presidency. He should pay a political price for his brazen corruption. Instead, he is telling American taxpayers to pay a price directly to him. That is the kind of authoritarian grift that drove 7 million Americans across every state in the union on Saturday to protest against Donald Trump. Tell me what brings you out and to be inside this hot unicorn costume today.

[Ezra Levin]

Well, we're here to represent the loving.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Hard working community of Los Angeles. We're here, beautiful, peacefully protesting, looking as ridiculous as we can. Just so maybe we appeal to the.

[Ezra Levin]

President because he is a ridiculous leader.

[Jacob Soboroff]

That is normalizing abuse of power and.

[Ezra Levin]

We cannot stand and act like nothing is happening.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Leading off our discussion tonight is Ezra Levin, co founder and co executive director of the Indivisible Project. Ezra, it's so good to see you.

[Ezra Levin]

Jacob, it's great to see you. I'm sorry I didn't wear my hot pink unicorn costume.

[Jacob Soboroff]

I know a guy who could hook you up with one if you're interested. His name is angel and he lives here in Los Angeles. I have to tell you, it was really extraordinary to be out there on Saturday and to be walking amongst so many people in la. I was there for the one in June. And I came back for this one. It felt bigger, more energetic and more electric than ever. I was so interested to hear you last night talk to Jen about how indivisible and other groups behind the protest had this call to discuss how to build on the momentum from Saturday. I think you said 130,000 people showed up for the call. Tell us about what happened, what's happened since the call, what's next?

[Ezra Levin]

Look, it actually turned out to be over 140,000. The largest movement that we've ever done in nearly a decade of organizing around resisting the Trump agenda. It was an incredible turnout. And I think what it shows is while Saturday was historic, the largest peaceful protest in American history, it wasn't just a one day protest. What it showed was, was Americans, not only do they not do kings, they're not willing to just sit on the sidelines and yell about not doing kings. They want to take action. And we've seen this movement grow. As you noted, we had 3 million people in April, 5 million people in June, 7 million people on Saturday. The movement is building. And where we are telling people to go is to not just focus on Congress, not just focus on this regime, but focus in on the institutions that are being bullied by this regime. The media institutions, the universities, the law firms, the businesses. Because authoritarianism depends not just on legislation and executive orders, but on convincing those pillars of democracy that should be pushing back against authoritarianism to cower, to buckle. And if those institutions understand that there's countervailing pressure, that the people don't want, that the people would push back, that's going to change their calculus. I think we can do a lot of good really fast between now and when the next big mobilization is.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Well, I have to tell you, I mean, objectively, as a reporter seeing it on the streets, these protests, and they're contagious. You know, not every protest is a no Kings Day protest. But they drove Greg Bevino out of Los Angeles into Chicago with the Border Patrol. And when I was in Chicago, there was a spontaneous same day protest of I think 7 or 10,000 people marching down Michigan Avenue in the middle of this indiscriminate series of raids. And it wasn't just about immigration, as you said, it was about our democracy. It was about standing up for, you know, against these federal troops on the streets. And what I said when I was out on the streets on Saturday, I talked to a lot of people, including angel in the pink unicorn costume. And he said something to the effect of he was looking as ridiculous as he could because Donald Trump is a ridiculous leader. There's something there, especially as Mike Johnson and Republicans are building up these protesters as America haters, as antifa. So many of them pushed back on that idea with me this Saturday.

[Ezra Levin]

I think they did it brilliantly. I think angel got it spot on. This regime wants to be feared. They have painted a picture where Americans are at each other's throats, that it's red America versus blue America, that it's Trump America versus the rest of America. And what we saw on Saturday is that's not true. And the protesters demonstrated that in the best possible way. They didn't seek conflict with the regime. They didn't participate in any violence with the regime. Instead, they did one of the most effective thing protesters against authoritarian can do. They use ridicule. It's called laughtivism. It's called tactical frivolity. But what we know is while the regime wants to be feared, they really don't want to be ridiculed. They don't want people to laugh at them. And so I highly encourage people to make use of this tool in your tool bed. Do not give the authoritarians what they want. Don't let them take your power, but don't let them take your joy either. That's what we saw all over the country and indeed the world on Saturday. Power and joy. Power and joy. And it's only growing.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Jacob, I have to say you're 100% correct. And it's not. It wasn't just. I mean, I've seen it on the streets of Chicago. We're seeing it in Portland outside of the ICE facility almost on a daily or nightly basis. I thought what Jeff Merkley said was pretty instructive just the other day, or, excuse me, on the floor of the Senate. I'd like to show that to you. And I want to get your take. Let's watch what Jeff Merkley had to say.

Mr. President, I've come to the Senate.

Floor tonight to ring the alarm bells.

We're in the most perilous moment, the biggest threat to our republic since the Civil War. President Trump is shredding our Constitution. The authoritarian takeover is not down the street.

It is not around the corner.

We are in the middle of it right now.

We're in the middle of it right now. Do you think, I mean, people are feeling it. Is that what's bringing people to the streets?

[Ezra Levin]

Oh, absolutely, Jacob. This president is invading and occupying American cities. He is funded to a hilt, a secret police force. The funds for which are just now flowing down to create a full employment plan for the proud boys. Things are bad now. They're gonna get worse. But the power is not in this regime. This doesn't come from a place of strength. It comes from a place of insecurity and weakness. That's why they're lashing out. So the good news for folks looking around on Saturday, what they saw was people in blue states and red states in purple states, in rural areas, suburban areas, urban areas, they were standing up unafraid to say, no, we are not going to accept this. So I think Jeff Merkley is 100% correct, and I think he is really issuing a challenge to his fellow Democratic senators to similarly ring the alarm bells and not just make speeches, but use the leverage you've got to push back against this now. And if you do, you're gonna find millions upon millions upon millions of Americans who are gonna cheer you on.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Not that I'm counting, But in exactly 12 days from this evening, I will be working election coverage here in California. And as you know, there will be huge election day races also in Virginia and in New Jersey. Any mass actions coming up before these elections?

[Ezra Levin]

Oh, mass actions called get out the vote, Jacob. We are running a statewide GOTV effort in California for Proposition 50 to try to get people out. We're using a neighbor to neighbor easy program. If you've never contacted voters before, we give you 10 neighbors, they are neighbors near you who you can go and talk to to get out the vote. Similarly, Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, these are the places where not sometime in the future, but right now, in the next two weeks, we're going to see the electoral impact of the no Kings movement.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Ezra Levin, what you are doing is extraordinary. I'm so happy to get the chance to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Jacob. Coming up today, a federal appeals court and at least one Trump appointed judge appeared skeptical of the Trump administration's arguments for deploying troops to Los Angeles. That's next. It all started in Los Angeles, California. That was the first democratically led US City where Donald Trump claimed he could federalize and deploy National Guard troops. After thousands of protesters took to the streets against the administration's immigration raids of places like Home Depot parking lots, the Garment District, and even schools. The National Guard did a lot of standing around in Los Angeles, even though Donald Trump claimed they were necessary to squash protests that he deemed amounted to an invasion of or a rebellion. The state of California sued and a federal judge ruled Donald Trump violated a law barring the use of soldiers for civilian law enforcement. Today, a three judge panel on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals heard oral arguments questioning Donald Trump's authority to send those National Guard troops to Los Angeles. Trump appointed Judge Eric Miller pressed the Trump administration on whether the extent of the protests in Los Angeles amounted to an invasion or a rebellion. Why is a couple of hundred people.

Engaging in disorderly conduct and throwing things.

At a building over the course of two days of comparable severity to an.

Invasion or a rebellion?

Well, because violence is being used to thwart enforcement of federal law. And I don't.

But violence is used to thwart enforcement.

Of federal law all the time. Right?

I mean, like the, the FBI goes.

To arrest somebody and he, you know, shoots at them or tries to run away. And that happens every day. The State of California's lawyer argued Donald Trump's intent to send California National Guard members to Portland before they were stopped by a judge shows there's no invasion or rebellion on the ground in Los Angeles. Most tellingly, I think, was the action a couple of weeks ago where they professed an intent to send all 300 federalized California Guard troops 800 miles away to Portland and then proceeded to send 215 of those 300 troops and presumably would have sent the entire contingent if they had not been enjoined by the Federal District of Oregon. This all comes as the San Francisco Chronicle reports that the Trump administration is sending a surge of federal agents to San Francisco this week. Quote, the decision was seen as a likely precursor to President Donald Trump deploying National Guard troops to San Francisco, mirroring similar immigration operations in other cities around the nation. California Governor Gavin Newsom has vowed to sue Donald Trump if he follows through. Just as today the governor is deploying the California National Guard himself on a humanitarian mission to support food banks as the Republican shutdown threatens food benefits for families. Joining us now is Harry Lippman, former U.S. attorney and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General. He is also the host of the Talking Feds podcast. Harry, good evening.

[Harry Lippman]

Hey, good evening, Jacob.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Good to be here.

You know, Harry, today was the first time that a court heard arguments on the merits of Trump's authority to deploy National Guard troops, you know, as he sees fit. Willy nilly. I'm wondering what, you know, what is your read on the oral arguments today?

[Harry Lippman]

So you're right, it was the first time, but it had quite a precursor, which is this very panel after Judge Breyer ruled, as you said, rebellion? I don't think so. That very panel took away his stay, saying they thought it was likely that the administration was going to prevail. So the points you raised with Judge Miller and others sure seem like they are apropos. But the administration is saying, well, they're saying two things. First, they're saying you can't review this at all. You have no power for judicial review. That is their lead argument. Also in the Supreme Court, this issue is really at the very top of the courts right now. And then they are also relying on a neighboring provision, not a rebellion, but where it says the US troops are just overrun. Now, every district court to consider this has, you know, called it out for what it is, fanciful. Judge Immigrant? No, I don't think so. Judge Breyer, you got to be kidding. Seventh Circuit, no way. This is a quintessential problem for the age of Trump, a president who asserts a factual predicate, but it just seems false. What do you do? How much do you defer? The Supreme Court is set to settle just that question right now because it's teed up in the case out of Chicago. And, you know, we're holding with bated breath the possibility that they might green light Trump. Nobody ever has. By the way, no court has ever held that something like this would be a rebellion or a failure of regular law authority to be able to keep order. But that's what the administration is asserting.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Perhaps, because as a reporter on the streets, it certainly doesn't appear to be one, including here in Los Angeles, Harry, which was first, but it is not the last, as we're seeing in the legal challenges, as you're saying, you know, the deployment of the troops to Chicago, the attempt to deploy them to Portland, the overview of all of these together, how this California case could impact those other cases. Will it be as wide ranging as it sounds?

[Harry Lippman]

Well, I think it's likely to be exactly as wide ranging and no more as when they removed the stay, because then they had to hold that the administration's likely to prevail. And their analysis was we get to review it. But still reviewing it deferentially, we find somehow it seems to be a kind of Alice in Wonderland analysis, that the regular troops and forces, everybody, all the king's sources and all the king's men aren't enough to quell the disturbance. And we need the military. That's where I think the ninth Circuit is going. But concurrently, really, it could happen tomorrow. The Supreme Court has basically the same issue arising from Chicago. And you mentioned Portland as well. Every judge on the ground in all those places, and we're supposed to defer to them has said no way. I defer. But not when it's untethered to the facts. Now we'll see what the Supreme Court says, and that's likely to be the word that controls.

[Jacob Soboroff]

And so the implications if the Supreme Court sides with Donald Trump on this. Donald Trump can deploy National Guard troops, members of the Marine Corps, like he did here in la, anywhere he wants, whenever he wants.

[Harry Lippman]

I think it's a lot worse even than that. He can claim emergency powers to do what he wants. My big fear is he uses it to do undercover of law, bad law, what he couldn't do in 2020, that is to say emergency, emergency in the election. We need to post National Guard troops at every polling place or whatever. It is a free form kind of emergency power. And if they greenlight it, this is really the big test for the Supreme Court. I think if they greenlight it, I think he can do all kinds of things with it. And all indications are he will.

[Jacob Soboroff]

And that's certainly J.B. pritzker's theory. When I spoke to him in Chicago in the middle of the ICE raids, you know, a couple of weeks ago, he said, you know, he may very well Donald Trump have these troops, these National Guard men and women outside of polling places on election Day. And that's why to tie back desert Levin. It's important in the words of J.B. pritzker, that everybody goes out to the streets, not just for the, the immigrants on the streets, but the implications for democracy. Harry Lippman, thank you so much. Good to see you.

[Harry Lippman]

Thank you. Likewise.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Coming up, there are new cracks between Trump and Republicans starting to show. And now new evidence. Republicans are starting to break with Trump on those very ICE raids. That's coming up next. Men need a store that has the right thing for their thing, like a Kenneth Cole suit made with Showflex fabric to keep them cool at their cousin in law's third wedding in the middle of July. Whatever the thing, Men's Wearhouse has the clothes for it. Love the way you look. Men's Wearhouse. Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more expensive and more complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful. Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need, and they're all connected on one platform. Doesn't Odoo sound like amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up [e-mail]. that's O D O O dot com. Hey, Riley Herbst here with 2311 Racing, waiting for the bus, staring at traffic, crawl hard pass.

[Harry Lippman]

I rev up Jumba Casino instead. Fast spins, blazing winds, all fun, no downloads needed. Why let the clock drag when you can let the reels spin?

[Jacob Soboroff]

Next stop, Chumbacasino.com.

[Harry Lippman]

Let'S Chumba.

[Jacob Soboroff]

No purchase necessary. VGW group Void where prohibited by law. CTC's 21 plus, sponsored by Chumba Casino. Los Angeles was the first city that Trump attacked, attempting to put National Guard troops on the streets of LA and unleashing ICE in downtown, at Dodger Stadium, and in parks like the one that surrounds the Wilshire Federal Building. That is where in June, California's Democratic Senator Alex Padilla was forcefully removed, shoved to the floor by federal agents, and handcuffed for trying to ask Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem a question about Trump's militarization in Los Angeles, New York. I also wanted to specifically how many of our ICE agents have been docked or uncle. On the ground. On the ground. Hands behind your back. Hands behind your back. All right, cool.

[Harry Lippman]

One hand.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Lay flat.

Lay flat.

Other hand, sir. Other hand. Just minutes after that incident occurred, I spoke with Senator Padilla in his first interview. After that shocking encounter. You became emotional when you came outside and spoke after this happened to you. I want to make sure that I tell everybody specifically what it was that you were talking about when you teared up. You talked about farmers and cooks and day laborers. You spoke in Spanish. I've heard you often speak about your father, who was a short order cook, and your mother, who cleaned homes. You grew up here in the northeast San Fernando Valley in a neighborhood called Pacoima. You played baseball in high school. You went to mit, and you came back and you became the leader of the City Council, the youngest ever, first Latino. You went to the State Senate, you became the Secretary of State of California, and now you're the senior senator from California. But why is it that? Why is it farmers and cooks and day laborers that put tears in your eyes?

Because I understand their plight. I understand their struggle. I understand their sacrifice to just find the American dream a good opportunity, maybe a good job, the ability to raise a family and have the next generation have it a little bit better than you did. And so for all the talk about immigration, you know, the misinformation, disinformation about invasions and insurrections, it's all BS coming from Trump. As I said before, if all they were going to do is target violent, dangerous Criminals, true threats to our national security, that'd be one thing. Nobody has a disagreement there. But what's happening in practice is so many, yes, maybe undocumented immigrants, but who are otherwise law abiding, peaceful and hard working. To think this administration changed policy for federal agents to enter schools, houses of worship, let alone workplaces. If immigrants are that bad, why is that where you're looking for them? And as I take a step back and take a deep breath, I get to remind everybody, this is the state of California. Not only the most populous state in the nation, the most diverse state in the nation, home to more immigrants than any state in the nation. Mostly documented immigrants, legal immigrants, but yeah, there's a good number of undocumented immigrants. But this is also California. That's the largest economy of any state in the nation. Fourth largest economy in the world. It's not despite the immigrant population, it's because of the contributions of so many immigrants as workforce, as consumers, as entrepreneurs.

Listen to what he said there. Senator Padilla was the first one to say it. But now polls show the public has turned on Trump. On immigration, 57% say the country is headed in the wrong direction. On immigration, 57%, including 18% of Republicans. And today, Republican Congresswoman Maria Salazar, who represents a heavily Hispanic district in Florida, basically admitted ICE is going after, quote, good hombres. I don't like the optics. I don't. But ICE is doing its job. I'm not saying anything against Homan. Homan is a good man.

[Harry Lippman]

All I'm saying is that we need to change the law.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Kristi Noem said it.

[Harry Lippman]

We need to change the law. So then ICE will do another type.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Of raid and concentrate only on trend.

[Harry Lippman]

Not on the good hombres who are.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Cleaning up the bathrooms or picking up the jalapeno peppers.

[Harry Lippman]

That's what ICE needs to concentrate on.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Alex Padilla of California. He is the ranking member of the Rules and Administration Committee and a member of the Judiciary Committee. Senator Padilla, it's great to see you.

Good to see you again. Jacob.

What was Congresswoman Salazar talking about?

Well, as I see that clip, Jacob, the first thing I think is, well, we got one. We got one to say publicly what so many are saying privately. There has to be a better way, one that respects the rule of law, two, that is smarter when it comes to immigration policy. Right? She said, in different words, what I said in the interview with you months ago. The administration should focus on the dangerous, violent criminals that they talk so much about. The True threats to public safety in communities and to national security, but not what they've been doing in practice. Los Angeles was the test case. That's where they ran the playbook first. And my message to my colleagues when I returned was exactly that. If they could do this in Los Angeles, whether it was about immigrants rights or anything else, then they set the groundwork for being able to deploy troops into any city in the country to quelch dissent on any issue. And now you have National Guard troops and others roaming the streets of Washington D.C. you see what's happened in Chicago, you see what's happened in Portland and Memphis. And now, not just threats. I take Trump at his word. San Francisco is next. And the way he justifies it, his words, he believes he has unquestioned power to deploy troops to San Francisco. That's what he ultimately wants, unquestioned power. And it's up to us to make sure we hold this administration accountable, because he does not have unquestioned power once you deploy troops to police the streets of cities in the United States of America. He has crossed the line from democracy to dictatorship.

Senator Padilla, I want you to watch what so called border czar Tom Homan said tonight about ICE arrests. I look at the data every morning on the way to work. 22 pages of data. Approximately 70% of everybody ice arrests is a criminal. Bottom line data shows it. Who are the other 30%? National security threats. Most national security threats don't have criminal history because they're landlord to do the dirty deed. I mean, that just directly contradicts what universities like Syracuse, the track organization within Syracuse say in their data. Hohman is saying 100% of people arrested. It's laughable. Are criminals or future criminals, terrorists, every one of them. We know, you and I personally know that. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Yeah. What he's saying is an outright lie. And by the way, this is the tame individual that took bags of cash from undercover FBI agents. So, you know, give me a break. When it comes to crime and the rule of law, the fact of the matter is, and ice's own data shows this, that the vast majority of people that have been detained, that have been arrested, and even many deported without due process, do not have violent criminal convictions on their record. What they're pointing to is their sheer presence in the United States without being legal immigrants. Not everybody came to United States the wrong way. Many undocumented immigrants came the right way. They came on a visa of some type and have overstayed that visa. So they may be undocumented, but otherwise law abiding, hardworking, tax paying, etc. It's our broken immigration system that has created this mess. So our immigration system as a whole needs to be modernized. We should focus on the dangerous, violent criminals, the two, the true threats to public safety. But give the hard working folks who are doing right and pursuing the American dream the ability to come out of the shadows, take a step towards legal status, maybe eventually earn citizenship. It's good for them, it's good for communities, and it would be great for our economy.

Instead, they're deporting 17 year olds like Nori Santay Ramos, who went to the Miguel Contreras Learning complex with her mother Estela, only to have her mother Estela die and Nori to be alone in Guatemala. Our viewers are familiar with that story, but you're right, there are countless stories like Nori that we have not heard about yet. I wanted to ask you, Senator Padilla, about the National Guard, because I have talked to troops here in Los Angeles, both the Guard and the Marines, who told me that they feel like they're basically being asked to wage war on their, on their own communities, stand in between those ICE agents and in some cases, if not literally, their brothers and sisters, their neighbors. What are you hearing from Guard members here in California? What does it do for the morale inside the ranks?

Oh, morale is extremely low when people sign up for the National Guard, or for the Marines for that matter, because Marines have been deployed. It's not what they signed up for. They're signing up for critical missions to protect our national security abroad. In the case of the Marines, National Guard men and women usually have very critical missions that they're assigned to in certain parts of the year. It's wildfire mitigation measures to help prepare for hot, dry summers and the risk of tremendous wildfires. Other times of the year. It could be, you know, projects to help control against the threat of flash flooding, things like that. Or given the cuts to nutrition and census programs, Governor Newsom is now deploying the Guard to food banks as he did during the COVID 19 pandemic. That's the kind of work National Guards, women and men, those service members sign up to do. Not to be pitted against their friends and neighbors, but and to implement Donald Trump's mass deportation agenda. But it just speaks volumes about the abuse of power that is seeing no end in this White House.

You mentioned how the National Guard troops would in some cases right now, at this very minute, be engaged in wildfire mitigation looking to protect against the next Palisades fire or Eaton fire, you know, the costliest wildfire event in American history. At this point. I saw you out here during the fires as I covered them and you walked around your own communities. You have been very actively engaged. And I want to ask you about this. In the aftermath of this fire and preventing future ones. You have a bipartisan bill, it's called Fixed Our Forests act, which advanced out of committee. Talk to me about this bill. How will it actually change the federal response to wildfires?

Sure. No, I appreciate the question because, look, despite the political environment that we're in, despite the government shutdown that is hurting a lot of people, especially federal workers that are asked to work without paychecks, we still have to try to keep making progress on issues that are important for families who live in areas prone to wildfires, for example. So to find bipartisan support to advance measures that could expedite the fuel breaks, for example, one common sense practice, not just during the course of a big fire, to contain it sooner rather than later, but to prevent fires from either happening in the first place or from becoming small fires to being large fires. The establishment of a wildfire intelligence center, bringing together the experience and the expertise of wildfires from across the federal government with state partners into one location so we can maximize our strategy, maximize not just prevention, but response when fires do happen and inform the rebuilding of communities. That's the kind of common sense action that Californians are desperate for, along with Americans throughout the west and beyond.

Senator Alex Padilla, it's so great to see you this evening. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Jacob.

Coming up, early voting begins in New Jersey this weekend to state that Donald Trump desperately wants his gubernatorial candidate to win. But Trump's strategy to win the state appears to be ending a crucial infrastructure project that impacts voters right there in New Jersey. It's coming up next.

It's Cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams.

And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice.

Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com special offer terms apply.

Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more expensive and more complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful. Now imagine Odoo Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one platform. Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up [e-mail] that's o-o o.com Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Redick.

You know what's more nerve wracking than.

[Ezra Levin]

Waiting for qualifying results?

[Harry Lippman]

Waiting for the green flag to drop.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases.

It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain. Play for [e-mail] let's Chumba no purchase necessary. VGW Group Void where prohibited by law. CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino early voting starts Saturday in New Jersey, where a new poll of the governor's race shows Democratic Congresswoman Mikey Sherrill with a five point lead over Trump backed Republican Jack Cittarelli. NewJersey.com reports Donald Trump's shadow has hung heavily over the election, with Cittarelli scoring the president's endorsement and Sheryl repeatedly tying her opponent to him. Wednesday's poll found 52% of voters say Trump is a major factor in their vote, while 14% says he's a minor one and 24% saying he's not a factor at all. Trump desperately wants to win New Jersey, which makes his choice to target the workers and people of New Jersey a little bit odd. As we've reported on this program, Trump claims to have cut funding to a project that would restore the rail tunnel that connects New Jersey to neighboring New York City. Now I can tell you firsthand how important this project is. Back in 2019, I went down there. I rode along with work crews that maintain that very Hudson River Rail Tunnel. The decrepit rail tunnel that runs underneath the Hudson river between New York and New Jersey is in desperate SH. It was completed in 1910, and while crews have been patching it for years, it really needs a major overhaul. Approximately 200,000 passengers travel through this tunnel every day. If there's a catastrophic failure, the death toll could be significant. So right now we're going from New Jersey into New York City.

That's the direction we're going to.

Sal Rendino and Mike Trana are engineers at Amtrak. They're taking me on a guided tour of what's considered to be one of the most pressing infrastructure problems in the US if you look up, you see all the ice that's all the water, all the water leaks. So all that ice is coming down from the road?

[Brent Johnson]

Yeah, that's from the road because we're.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Not under the river yet.

But that's kind of what happens when.

You have water infiltrated. How deep under the Hudson does it go? Approximately 100ft. And during Hurricane Sandy, this whole thing was flooded out. The tunnel was flooded out. Manhattan was essentially cut off from the.

Rest of the continent.

[Harry Lippman]

In terms of rail travel.

[Jacob Soboroff]

It'S one of the most pressing infrastructure problems in the United States of America. And of course, this weekend, Donald Trump bragged about killing it permanently. What we're doing is we're cutting Democrat programs that we didn't want because, I mean, they made one mistake. They didn't realize that that gives me the right to cut programs that Republicans never wanted, you know, giveaways, welfare programs, et cetera. And we're doing that and we're cutting them permanently. We're cutting a $20 billion project that Schumer fought for 15 years to get. And I'm cutting the project. The project is going to be dead. It is pretty much dead right now. Trump's Republican pick for governor of New Jersey is basically begging voters to understand he does not want to kill that popular and necessary project. NJ.com reports Trump's administration last month froze funding for the project, which includes a long awaited new rail tunnel under the Hudson River. Amid shutdown negotiations, Sheryl immediately blasted Trump on social media. I'm gonna keep fighting. Cittarelli was forced to play defense, saying, this is a critical infrastructure project and I will fight to get it done. Joining us now is Brent Johnson, politics reporter for NJ.com. brent, thanks for being here. Happy to be here.

[Brent Johnson]

Thanks.

[Jacob Soboroff]

It's pretty janky down there. As someone who has been down in the tunnel myself, and I have seen and understand why and how important this infrastructure project is not just to New Jersey, but to New York and the literally the millions of people who traverse the Hudson river all the time. How big of a factor do you think that Donald Trump and the Hudson Tunnel project will ultimately be in the outcome in New Jersey?

[Brent Johnson]

It's a project a lot of New Jerseyans know. I've been down there, too. The governor here, the current governor, Phil Murphy, likes to talk about how Teddy Roosevelt was president when this project started many, many, many years ago. The rail tunnel we have now. So it's something that people who commute into New Jersey, which is a sizable portion of our population here, they go into New York every day to travel and they know how big of a deal. This is. So the hope is that Sheryl's team is trying to drive this forward. And the hope for her is that people really take notice and that is a blight against Cittarelli.

[Jacob Soboroff]

All you gotta do is go down there and watch the icicles dangling and hear about Hurricane Sandy like I did. And it's not hard to understand when you dig a little deeper into that Rutgers poll, it shows voters are split on who would handle the cost of living and affordability. I think 40, 42% saying Sheryl, 41% saying Cittarelli. What are you hearing about that on the ground?

[Brent Johnson]

Yeah, it's. Polls are showing a tightening race. It's a close race. But Sheryl has led in every poll so far or one poll was tied recently, but she has led in pretty much every poll. And the thought is some Democrats wonder why she isn't leading by more. Because we are a blue leaning state that have, that has 800,000 more registered Democrats than Republicans. But there is a surprise that a Democrat is leading a Republican on taxes and affordability, as this poll shows. And the Fox News poll showed something similar recently.

[Jacob Soboroff]

But again, it's tight.

[Brent Johnson]

This is a really big race to watch. No governor has no party, has held the governor's office three straight terms in New Jersey since 1961. And that said also usually our state, which is an off year, has an off year. Gubernatorial election usually switches from the party that won the White House the year before. So one of those trends is going to end. It's a question of which one.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You pointed out in your article on that Rutgers poll that Sheryl's five point lead Wednesday, nearly within the margin of error, is down four points from when she led by nine in Rutgers. Last poll in the race, that was in August. Former President Barack Obama has been everywhere recently and now he set the stump for Sheryl on November 1st. This race is a test of the country's political realignment in some measure. How was the experience of reporting on politics this year for you? I'm always out there too. How has it been in this, in this crazy time, this fractured environment?

[Brent Johnson]

I've been covering politics in New Jersey for 15 years. This is the fourth governor's race I've covered and by far the most heated, the most difficult to gauge when it comes to polling. From what insiders are saying. If you talk to Democrats and Republicans, they all say it's a jump ball. And that's kind of what's going into the final days of the race.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Brent Johnson, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[Brent Johnson]

Thanks.

[Jacob Soboroff]

We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word. Not sure if you have the experience to start your dream job. Good news. These days it's the skills that Count Udemy can help you get those in demand. Skills? Want to be an AI mastermind? Learn with us. Game developer. We've got you covered. AWS Certified Cloud Practitioner. We can help you prep. You'll learn from real world experts who love what they do so that you can love what you do. Go to udemy.com for the skills to get you started and get set for your dream job.