House Oversight Committee to subpoena DOJ for Epstein files

Summary

Summary of "House Oversight Committee to Subpoena DOJ for Epstein Files" Episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
• Host/Author: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC
• Episode: House Oversight Committee to Subpoena DOJ for Epstein Files
• Release Date: August 1, 2025

In this episode of The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell, host Lawrence O'Donnell delves into the escalating political tensions surrounding the House Oversight Committee's move to subpoena the Department of Justice (DOJ) for documents related to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Released on August 1, 2025, the episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the key players, motivations, and potential implications of this significant development in American politics.

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Ghislaine Maxwell's Legal Battle and Potential Pardon

The episode opens with a focus on Ghislaine Maxwell, who is currently appealing her 20-year prison sentence for grooming and trafficking underage girls. Lawrence O'Donnell highlights the emotional toll on Virginia Giuffre's family, a prominent Epstein victim:

Lawrence O’Donnell ([02:35]): "For the family of Virginia Drew Frank, who died from suicide earlier this year at the age of 41, the possibility of Maxwell being released from prison is completely unacceptable."

Senator Amy Klobuchar echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the gravity of Maxwell's crimes:

Senator Amy Klobuchar ([03:05]): "She's convicted of these crimes, and the thought of offering her leniency or a complete pardon makes us feel sick."

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Trump's Stance on Pardoning Maxwell

The discussion shifts to former President Donald Trump's ambiguous stance on pardoning Maxwell. Despite senior Trump administration officials stating that no leniency is being considered, Trump himself remains non-committal:

Donald Trump ([01:01]): "I'm allowed to give her a pardon, but nobody's approached me with it. Nobody's asked me about it."

Lawrence questions the discrepancy between official statements and Trump's public comments:

Lawrence O’Donnell ([07:00]): "Has Trump only just now discovered a self-imposed limit to presidential power on the Epstein files?"

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House Oversight Committee's Actions

Congressman Robert Garcia raises concerns about the House Oversight Committee's incomplete actions:

Congressman Robert Garcia ([02:35]): "Why doesn't Donald Trump say that in his many, many public comments about the Epstein case?"

Despite the committee's Republican chairman, James Comer, not yet subpoenaing Trump's Attorney General, efforts continue to pressure the administration for transparency.

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Democratic Push for Comprehensive File Release

Congresswoman Susan Del Bene underscores the necessity of releasing all Epstein-related files to prevent further cover-ups:

Congresswoman Susan Del Bene ([13:48]): "We are now seeing a huge new scandal and cover-up. On behalf of the White House, please contact the Oversight Committee... We need to bring it out to light to the public."

Senator Ron Wyden adds another layer by questioning the IRS's role in monitoring Epstein's financial dealings:

Senator Ron Wyden ([13:04]): "It is unthinkable that transactions amounting to tens of millions of dollars paid to a known criminal for the purpose of helping a mega wealthy individual dodge billions in taxes were never audited or investigated."

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Trump's Unfulfilled Trade Promises and Imposed Tariffs

Transitioning to economic issues, Lawrence critiques Trump's failure to meet his "90 deals in 90 days" promise. The uncertainty surrounding the self-imposed August 1st deadline adds to market instability:

Lawrence O’Donnell ([17:32]): "Predictably, 24 hours after Trump posted in ALL CAPS, the August 1 deadline stands strong and will not be extended."

Senator Amy Klobuchar criticizes the administration's use of tariffs, labeling them as new taxes that burden American families:

Senator Amy Klobuchar ([18:02]): "Trump's tariff taxes are the largest tax increase on the American middle class in over half a century."

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Judicial Challenges to Trump's Tariffs

The episode delves into the legal battles against Trump's tariffs, highlighting skepticism from the federal appeals court:

Michael McFaul ([19:19]): "No problem, replied Justice Department attorney Brett Shumate... the judges weren't buying it."

Senator Klobuchar anticipates a favorable outcome for the case, emphasizing the detrimental economic impact of the tariffs:

Senator Amy Klobuchar ([21:43]): "This uncertainty is not good for the economy."

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Gerrymandering and Mid-Decade Redistricting in Texas

Addressing electoral integrity, the conversation shifts to Texas where Democrats are fighting against Republican-led gerrymandering efforts. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Congresswoman Susan Del Bene strategize to counteract attempts to reshape congressional maps in favor of Republicans:

Congresswoman Susan Del Bene ([30:57]): "We're the ones that outmaneuvered him by putting a subcommittee motion in the Oversight Committee to actually release the files and subpoena them."

Lawrence emphasizes the broader implications of such maneuvers on American democracy.

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Trump's Ineffectiveness in Addressing the Russia-Ukraine War

Concluding the episode, Lawrence critiques Trump's handling of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, particularly his exchanges with Russian officials on social media:

Michael McFaul ([37:14]): "He's being trolled by Medvedev and he's taking the bait. Don't feed the trolls. It doesn't make him look strong."

Ambassador McFaul further elaborates on the lack of a coherent strategy from Trump's administration to effectively address the war:

Michael McFaul ([40:45]): "He hasn't developed that strategy. I don't see a strategy that we're going to help end this war or help the Ukrainians defend themselves."

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Conclusion

Lawrence O'Donnell wraps up the episode by underscoring the importance of ongoing congressional oversight in both the Epstein case and broader governmental actions, including economic policies and foreign affairs. The episode highlights the tension between legislative accountability and executive actions, emphasizing the need for transparency and strategic policymaking to uphold democratic principles.

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This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened.

Transcript

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[Jonathan Capehart]

The Last word starts right now with.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Jonathan Capehart, who is in for Lawrence. Hey, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Hey, Jen. Thank you very, very much. Tonight, the family of Virginia Giuffre, one of Jeffrey Epstein's victims, is speaking out. Virginia Giuffre publicly exposed the crimes against children by Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, and her family is urging Donald Trump not to pardon Maxwell. In a statement to NBC News, a senior Trump administration official said no leniency is being given or discussed when it comes to a pardon for Maxwell. But if that's true, why doesn't Donald Trump say that in his many, many public comments about the Epstein case? As Trump has shown us time and time again, no one speaks for Donald Trump but Donald Trump. And here is Donald Trump not taking a pardon off the table. Well, I'm allowed to give her a pardon, but nobody's approached me with it. Nobody's asked me about it. It's in the news about that, that aspect of it.

[Michael McFaul]

But right now, it would be inappropriate.

[Jonathan Capehart]

To talk about it. Ghislaine Maxwell is currently appealing her 20 year prison sentence for grooming and trafficking underage girls. And for the family of Virginia Drew Frank, who died from suicide earlier this year at the age of 41, the possibility of Maxwell being released from prison is completely unacceptable.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

What is your message to President Trump on that?

[Jonathan Capehart]

I can speak for that. I think the word that comes to mind is it would be an abomination. Our sister always told us that Maxwell.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Was even worse than Epstein.

[Jonathan Capehart]

This is a woman who used her womanhood to prey on young girls, vulnerable.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Young girls, and.

[Jonathan Capehart]

She wasn't A light participant.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

She's convicted of these crimes, and the thought of offering her leniency or a complete pardon, it makes us feel sick.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Virginia Giuffre told prosecutors that she was recruited at age 16 while working as a spa attendant at Trump's Mar A Lago resort by Ghislaine Maxwell. Trump said Tuesday that Jeffrey Epstein, quote, stole Virginia Giuffre from his employ. Here is the Giuffre family's emotional response to Trump's stolen comment.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

He said specifically that word when he described her as being stolen, having been, quote, unquote, stolen.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

What went through your mind when you heard that?

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

I think we were shocked by it.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Especially to use the term stolen, because she's not an object, she's a person.

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

She's a mom, she's a sister.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And she was recruited by Maxwell. She wasn't stolen.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

She was recruited at Mar A Lago.

[Jonathan Capehart]

His property place where she was looking forward to having fun that summer. And it just kind of makes us wonder, I mean, how much he knew.

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

You know, especially.

[Jonathan Capehart]

And it's in our statement a couple of years later, you know, he made a statement on Epstein and, you know.

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

How he liked young girls. And so, yeah, it does make us question how much did he know?

[Jonathan Capehart]

How much did he know? That is one question Donald Trump wants people to stop asking. Donald Trump and the White House really want the entire Epstein Maxwell story to go away. But the problem is Donald Trump has never said out of his mouth to the press or to anyone else, no, I will not pardon Ghislaine Maxwell, not once. In a statement released yesterday, the family of Virginia Giuffre said this about Ghislaine. If our sister could speak today, she would be most angered by the fact that the government is listening to a known perjurer, a woman who repeatedly lied under oath and will continue to do so as long as it benefits her position. Khalen Maxwell is a monster who deserves to rot in prison for the rest of her life for the extraordinary violence and abuse she put not just our sister Virginia through, but many other survivors who may number in the thousands. The House Oversight Committee has subpoenaed Maxwell to testify next month. But the committee's Republican chairman, James Comer, has not yet subpoenaed Trump's Attorney General, Pam Bondi, for the release of all the Epstein files. I'll ask Oversight Committee ranking member Robert Garcia about that in just a moment. Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson claimed yesterday that Trump wants everything released.

[Michael McFaul]

I want everything to come out about the Epstein evils.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

That is possible to be released because the people that were involved in those unspeakable evil acts should be punished with the greatest severity of the law. And it should have happened a long time ago.

[Jonathan Capehart]

So I'm fully in favor of that.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

We have to do it in a responsible manner. I'm pushing for, aggressively for the full.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Release of everything that is possible.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

And by the way, so is the president.

[Jonathan Capehart]

If Trump wants the, quote, full release of everything, then why doesn't he say that? Has Trump only just now discovered a self imposed limit to presidential power on the Epstein files? Ghislaine Maxwell has said through her attorney that she will plead the Fifth if she is called to testify about Epstein unless she's granted clemency. That clemency request was denied by Chairman Comer. But the Justice Department has already given Maxwell some form of limited immunity. Last week, during a secret meeting with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, Donald Trump's former criminal defense attorney, who still has legal obligations to Trump.

[Michael McFaul]

You're still his lawyer.

[Jonathan Capehart]

I have an attorney client relationship with President Trump.

[Michael McFaul]

And even if you're confirmed and you're no longer representing him as a criminal defendant, even then you still have continuing moral obligations as a member of the bar. Legal obligations to your former client, Correct?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Like everybody at the Department of Justice with every one of their former clients.

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

Correct.

[Michael McFaul]

So you'd have a continuing duty of loyalty and confidentiality when it comes to his communications, correct?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Yes. The Washington Post reports today some of Blanche's ex colleagues are surprised by what they see as his transformation from the independent litigator they knew to one they say seems willing to prioritize his loyalty to Trump. The article says it is, quote, completely inappropriate and wrong for him to interview Maxwell, both because of his relationship to Trump and because it is a job that should be reserved for prosecutors on the case, not a Justice official. At the highest level, Maxwell spent nine hours over two days last week answering every question posed by Blanche, according to Maxwell's attorney, David Oscar Marcus. But the details of the interview have not been released, and Democrats said they feared it was the kind of conflict they had been concerned about when Blanche was nominated. Unless interview transcripts are released, it may be impossible to know whether and how much Blanche pursued questions about Trump's possible mention. And in the Epstein files. Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia of California. He serves as ranking member of the House Oversight Committee. Congressman Garcia, great to see you. President Trump still hasn't said the words, I will not pardon Ghislaine Maxwell. What's the significance of that silence, especially Given his past pattern of rewarding loyal allies with pardons.

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

Hey, Jonathan. I mean, look. I mean, obviously he should say that. I mean, let's be really clear. Ms. Maxwell is a known liar. She has completely been involved in sex trafficking, been convicted, is serving a serious sentence, and she should not be trusted. And so this idea that somehow Donald Trump is gonna side with sex traffickers over the victims, I think it's really, really disturbing. And the fact that we're now hearing more and more folks, family members of victims coming out, people are incredibly disturbed that Donald Trump is somehow flirting with a pard. And what's more concerning is we know that his own personal, former personal lawyer is now the DOJ is meeting with Ms. Maxwell to possibly have some kind of reduced sentence deal or a pardon. All of that should concern us, which is why when Ms. Maxwell actually testifies in a deposition to the Congress, it's gonna be done in a way that's bipartisan. I will be in the room, others will be in the room to ensure that whatever she says is corroborated by the release of the files. Which is why the release of the files, that subpoena that's in place is so important that it happens here in the next few days. All of the files should be released, and in no scenario should Donald TRUMP Pardon Ms. Maxwell.

[Jonathan Capehart]

So Congressman Speaker Mike Johnson said, and I'm quoting here, I'm pushing aggressively for the full release of everything that is possible. And so is the President. Your reaction to that? Do you believe that?

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

No, that's complete. That's a lie and a joke. They did everything that they could to actually stop Congress from discussing the files. Mike Johnson himself, I mean, literally ended the session early because he was afraid of votes. We're the ones that kind of outmaneuvered him by putting a subcommittee motion in the Oversight Committee to actually release the files and subpoena them. They completely caught them all off guard. And Donald Trump, after spending years campaigning, promising a release of the files, making it central to his message for winning the presidency, has now done a complete flip. I mean, he is obviously hiding something. What is Donald Trump hiding? Why all of a sudden, the secrecy? What is he so afraid of? He's betrayed his base. He's betrayed the American public. And it's time to get the full files and release them to the public.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Well, Chairman Comer still hasn't signed a subpoena for the Epstein files. Do you believe that's an intentional delay at this point?

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

Look, we've been working with Chairman Comer. Our Teams have been meeting as, you know, as late as today. They're still talking. I do think we're gonna get that subpoena filed in the next few days. He has to do it. It's mandatory under the law, under the rules of the committee. So he can't get around that. So we do expect that subpoena to come. Look, if for some reason he delays it beyond the next few days, we are going to raise hell. But we do expect that to happen. We know that the subpoena around Ms. Maxwell is being also worked on right now and as it relates to her testimony in front of the Congress. But the subpoena on the files, the videos, the documents is critical to the work. And we've been telling folks if anyone out there else has information about what's in these files, was involved in any of this, we are now seeing as a huge new scandal and cover up. On behalf of the White House, please contact the Oversight Committee, contact Democrats on the committee. We want to know all the information and have all the materials to that. We need to bring it out to light to the public.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Senator Ron Wyden, the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee, is also demanding to know whether the agency has performed any audits or investigations of Epstein's tax and estate planning services and transactions. Despite this glaring lack of qualifications that might lead anyone to double check Epstein's work. It appears that the IRS failed over the course of many years to audit major tax transactions involving Epstein. Senator Wyden wrote, it is unthinkable that transactions amounting to tens of millions of dollars paid to a known criminal for the purpose of helping a mega wealthy individual dodge billions in taxes were never audited or investigated. Congressman, could this lead to more revelations?

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

Absolutely. And we want to, of course, get our hands on any information that's out there, any documents, any tax documents. And it's not just documents that are in the government. We're working right now, myself and Congressman Ro Khanna working, are working right now with the Epstein estate, which we know also has a series of documents. They have that infamous birthday book in their possession of which that note that Donald Trump sent Epstein, the original copy is there. And this is of course something that Donald Trump says doesn't exist or that he was involved with, which we know is a complete lie. So it's getting the government documents, it's getting what the DOJ has, it's going out to the Epstein estate and getting that information. And of course, anything that else that's out there, which believe me, Jonathan, we are getting, I mean, there are whistleblowers out there. There are folks that are career FBI folks. People are contacting the committee with new information. We're going to continue to seek that information and ensure that we release it all to the public.

[Jonathan Capehart]

NBC News hasn't confirmed, has not confirmed itself the existence of this letter. But one more quick question for you, Congressman Garcia. You mentioned about raising hell if Chairman Comer doesn't file those subpoenas. Is there a deadline, a statutory deadline that he has to meet in order to file the subpoena or we're just waiting for him to act on good graces and good manners to issue the subpoena?

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

Well, we expect him to file a subpoena in the next few days. And we've been talking almost daily over the course of this last week. Our teams have been. And so there is no drop deadline. But he does have to do it within a reasonable amount of time, which we expect him to do.

[Jonathan Capehart]

All right. Congressman Robert Garcia, ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, thank you very much for coming to the last word. And coming up first, Donald Trump fell way, way, way, way short of his 90 deals in 90 days promise on trade deals. We're less than two hours again from his self imposed August 1st deadline on a slew of proposed tariffs. So will he go through with it or will the Taco king chicken out? Senator Amy Klobuchar joins us next tonight. We're just hours away from Donald Trump's self imposed trade deal deadline, a date he set after failing to meet his own 90 deals in 90 days goal. That earlier July 9 deadline came and went without resolution and once again the markets reacted. The Wall Street Journal reports that tariff uncertainty dragged down stocks quote. The S&P 500 and NASDAQ Composite Index gave up early gains. The Dow suffered its fourth straight day of declines with investors growing slightly more nervous about signs of slowing economic growth and an uptick in goods inflation. Predictably, 24 hours after Trump posted in ALL CAPS, the August 1 deadline is the August 1 deadline. It stands strong and will not be extended. Trump tacoed and announced that he will be extending the deadline after all, at least with one major trading partner. We will be talking to Mexico over the next 90 days with the goal of signing a trade deal somewhere within the 90 day period of time or longer. Mexico's tariff rate will continue at 25% for the next 90 days. New inflation data from the Commerce Department out today shows that the Trump tariffs drove up costs that were then passed directly to consumers in other Words working Americans pay the Trump tariffs.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

When the administration boasts about collecting over 100 billion in tariffs this year, that's 100 billion in new taxes. It's not China paying for Trump's tariff taxes. It's the people of our country. Trump's tariff taxes are the largest tax increase on the American middle class in over half a century. The president's new tariff taxes are already raising costs for American families by 2,400 a year, 300 of that in food costs alone.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Today, Trump's use of emergency powers to impose those tariffs was challenged in federal appeals court today. The Wall Street Journal editorial board called it a rough day in court for tariffs, writing, quote, well, that was painful for the Trump administration's lawyer, that is. The U.S. court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit on Thursday heard oral arguments and a challenge to President Trump's worldwide tariffs. Judge after judge doubted the administration's arguments. The administration says the 1977 International Emergency Economic Powers act grants a president sweeping authority to impose tariffs. The 11 judges were mostly skeptical. Out of the gate, one judge pointed out that no president has ever used the emergency law to impose tariffs. No problem, replied Justice Department attorney Brett Shumate. He said the law is written broadly to let a president regulate the importation of foreign property. And if he declares a national emergency for any reason, the judges weren't buying it. Joining us now, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. She serves on the Senate Commerce and Judiciary Committee. Senator.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Hey, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Donald Trump now says he's raising Canada's tariff rate from 25% to 35%. Canada is Minnesota's largest trading partner. Do you think Trump understands why? What's at stake for border states like yours?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

I do not believe he does because this is, of course, a major tax on families. But I want to say I am excited that you are having me on for this countdown. I'm looking, it's one hour and 38 minutes away. Like, we know he's going to announce all the trade agreements in that time. But what we actually do know, Jonathan, is that once again, it's uncertainty. It is a whole bunch of promises that have been unmet, including promises on not kicking people off of Medicaid, which he's done. Promises on making sure that we're going to have people's back when it comes to costs. Look at what he's done on these tariffs. I'm just, it's unbelievable. He's got extra, as you say, on Canada when in fact they change their digital tax that he didn't like. He, they pledged their 5% to. So they got their numbers up for how much they were putting on military spending, some of which goes to NATO. That was important to him. And so he just keeps changing what the target is. Then for some reason he's giving Mexico the delay, but then he puts 50% on Brazil with which we have a trade surplus. He's got major tariffs on Vietnam and a number of other countries. And there are no deals that have been signed except for I think just a few of them. The rest have just been announced and we don't have ink to paper. And I thought it was really interesting that you raised the court case because remember that original court case was some Republican appointed judges and Democratic appointed judges. And those three judges basically said this is not legal under this law that he's using to take away Congress's power and to use a statute that was meant for something else and to use it for tariffs. As they pointed out in the appeal, that case today, where they seemed very skeptical of Donald Trump's case, the word tariff isn't even in that law. So I think that is really something to watch as we wait for that court of appeals decision.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Senator, has the administration given you or any of your colleagues a heads up about these new tariff rates?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

No, they have not given me any heads up. And for me being on the Canadian border, having gone to Canada with Senator Shaheen and Cramer and Senator Welch and Senator Kaine just recently and met with the prime minister who was earnestly trying to make an agreement, as I just mentioned, the changes that they made. Canada is our friend. They were the ones there when 9, 11 happened. They were the first country there aiding the people of New York City. They have been our allies in countries around the world. They are the ones that draped on the side of their embassy for years. Friend, ally, partner. Why would you do this to the largest trading partner of dozens of states in America? And I think one of the things we're starting to see another number out today on inflation going up sadly for American families. We know that a number of our businesses are holding back investment right now because of all this uncertainty. Instead of 90 trade agreements in 90 days, he's changed tariffs hundreds of times as and we don't have those trade agreements. We just have more uncertainty.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Senator, listen to this tariffs question from a reporter today and what Donald Trump said in response. Why didn't you invoke this law in your first term? You could have taken in billions upon.

[Michael McFaul]

Billions of dollars in your first term.

[Jonathan Capehart]

But you waited until your second term. Yeah, because in my first term, I was fighting lunatics like you who were trying to do things incorrectly and inappropriately to a president that was duly elected. Okay. There's always a grievance in there. But Senator Klobuchar, when in doubt, attack.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

The press and blame that reporter for what's happening with our economy right now.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Right. And for asking a legitimate question. But Senator, do you think the courts will abide Donald Trump's bypassing of Congress to make tariffs a presidential power?

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

I actually, when you look at these well thought out the original decision and then they appeal it to this federal court, by the way, next stop, Supreme Court. And when you listen to the questions and we look at the transcript of what went back and forth here, I think we have a very good chance on this case. And remember, this case is brought by some attorney generals for states across the country affected, but it's also brought by a bunch of businesses. It's a combined case. And so what you've seen here is these businesses that have no redress, they have no place to go, they keep trying to say to them, this is hurting us. We get our parts from this place. Our market is drying up for our soybeans. That's the kind of thing that's starting to happen in this country. And the effect on individual families. Small businesses are roadkill, but individual families we've seen time and time again are going to see this. The estimate now is $2,400 in a tax for an individual family and 300 of that is in increased grocery costs. And that is because we are already seeing the retaliatory tariffs on American goods. And, and you're just starting to see this cycle through. But I'm telling you right now, this uncertainty is not good for the economy. And you're already seeing this in inflation.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Senator Amy Klobuchar of the great state of Minnesota, thank you very much as always for coming to the Last Word.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Thanks, Jonathan. Great to be on. You've got, you've got another hour and 15 minutes to get all those, those, get those deals agreement signed. I know. Are you going to stay on the air to wait for that final moment at midnight?

[Jonathan Capehart]

No. Thank you, Senator. Coming up, Democrats in Texas fighting a Republican gerrymandering of their state are getting some big help from Washington. We'll discuss that next with a member of the House of Representatives whose job it is to make sure more Democrats are elected to Congress. Congresswoman Susan Del Beney joins us next. This is Comedy Bang Bang, the podcast, the promo. And in 30 seconds, I'm going to tell you why you should check out the show. I the host Scott Aukerman have a light hearted conversation with famous celebrities like Jon Hamm, Alison Williams, Phoebe Bridgers, Jason Alexander, Natasha Lyonne, Bob Oden, Kirk, just to name a few. Things go a little off the rails when different eccentric characters and oddballs drop by to be interviewed as well. Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast Listen every Monday wherever you get your podcasts. There's a time and a place for a filet of fish, but breakfast is for sausage biscuits.

[Congresswoman Susan Del Bene]

McDonald's breakfast comes first.

[Jonathan Capehart]

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[Michael McFaul]

Donald Trump has ordered Greg Abbott and compliant Texas Republicans to race back to Austin, have a special session in order to rig the congressional map and undermine the ability of Texans to have a free and fair midterm election.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Election that is wrong.

[Michael McFaul]

You deserve better. The people of Texas deserve better.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Donald Trump is the most corrupt president in American history and Ken Paxton is the most corrupt politician in Texas history.

[Michael McFaul]

And this is these two men teaming.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Up to try to ram through this ridiculous an illegal gerrymandering plan. It's the same old bs. Corrupt politicians having a scheme to rig the rules of our elections so that they can drown out voters voices and remain unaccountable, the Austin American Statesman reports. The appearance in a room outside of the Texas House chamber was the second of two events over two days Jeffries held with Texas Democrats and in the legislature and in Congress. On Wednesday night, he met privately for about 90 minutes with several dozen elected Democrats, ostensibly to discuss ways they might somehow derail the unusual mid decade redistricting orchestrated by the Trump administration to better position Republicans to hold their razor thin majority in the U.S. house. That new map was unveiled by Texas Republicans on Wednesday. It gerrymanders the state in A way that could net the GOP five Texas congressional seats in 2026. This desperate power grab is all happening because Donald Trump and House Republicans are running scared. They know the fallout from the Trump Republican budget bill. Trump's tariffs and his handling of the Epstein files could follow the party into the 2026 midterms. A new poll is showing the momentum already starting to shift towards Democrats. In the second quarter of 2025. An average of 46% of adults now identify as Democrats or Democrat leaning independents, according to Gallup. That's compared to 43% who identified as Republicans or Republican leaning, which is a change from 2024. Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Susan Del Bene of Washington. She is chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, or as we call it, the dtrip. Congresswoman, nice to see you again. Have you spoken to Leader Jeffries about the situation in Texas?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Not today, not since he's been there. But we have spoken many times about how important it is to get the message out to the people of Texas what Donald Trump and Republicans are trying to do. They're not interested in the needs of the people of Texas. Donald Trump basically ordered the governor and the Texas legislature to draw new maps. And like Republicans across Congress these days, they are blindly loyal to Donald Trump and doing what he said. But people hate this. They want to be able to vote for the folks who represent them, not have folks gerrymander so they can pick their voters.

[Jonathan Capehart]

How are you feeling about the Democrats midterm chances with or without this Texas map in place for 2026?

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

You know, I think we have incredible momentum. What we know is important is having great candidates talking about the issues that matter. The number one issue being affordability and lowering costs for American families. Republicans said they were going to do that. They have broken that promise over and over again. Tariffs, as you've talked about this terrible bill, cutting health care for millions of Americans at the grocery store, at the pharmacy counter, over and over, people are seeing prices go up. So we have great candidates who actually want to come to D.C. to do the work of their districts and support the American people. They win. And right now we already have 14 Democrats who won in seats that Trump also won in last election in 2024. And so with public sentiment on our side, we absolutely can pick up seats across the country and we need three more to take back the majority.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congresswoman, do you support Democratic states doing mid decade redistricting? I mean, Governor Newsom of California has been out there saying, hey, if Texas does, what if they go through with what they're doing, we're going to have to look at doing the same thing in California.

[Congressman Robert Garcia]

Well, Republicans, as you said, they're running scared, so they're trying to rig the system to work for them. They should be careful what they ask for. When they go down this path, they're going to open up seats for us because they're going to when they move the lines, they make Republicans more vulnerable, too. We're going to fight in every single one of those seats. But also we're going to see governors like Governor Newsom understand the impact this has across the country. Trying to change the system so that people's voices aren't heard impacts everyone. And so we, whether it's California or others, folks are going to stand up and we are not going to fight this battle with one arm tied behind our back.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Congresswoman, there are a lot of people who are watching who heard what you just said and are probably pumping their fists saying, all right, Congresswoman Susan Del Bene of Washington, chair of the D Trip, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word. And coming up, Donald Trump promised to stop Vladimir Putin's illegal, murderous war in Ukraine on the first day of his second term in office. It's now been nearly 200 days of failure from Donald Trump on that promise. And so with all the power of his office and all the levers of diplomacy available to him within the American government, of course, Donald Trump is picking fights with Russian officials on social media. That's next. This is Comedy Bang Bang, the podcast, the promo. And in 30 seconds, I'm gonna tell you why. You should check out the show. I, the host, Scott Aukerman, have a lighthearted conversation. Conversation with famous celebrities like Jon Hamm, Alison Williams, Phoebe Bridgers, Jason Alexander, Natasha Lyonne, Bob Odenkirk, just to name a few. Things go a little off the rails when different eccentric characters and oddballs drop by to be interviewed as well. Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast Listen every Monday wherever you get your your podcasts. Cash Flow Crunch on Deck Small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $100,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic bank on Deck does not lend to North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

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[Jonathan Capehart]

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[Michael McFaul]

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[Jonathan Capehart]

Donald Trump is failing at trying to stop Russia's war in Ukraine, something he said he would do on day one of his presidency. Overnight, Russia launched hundreds of missiles and drones across Ukraine, striking several residential areas. In kyiv, at least 15 people, including one child, were killed and 145 people were injured, including 14 children, according to the State Emergency Service of Ukraine. However, Donald Trump's focus last night was a war of words with a Russian leader, but it wasn't Vladimir Putin. It started on Monday when Donald Trump expressed frustration at Putin's unwillingness to end the war, shortening the deadline for Vladimir Putin to agree to a ceasefire from 50 days to 10 days and threatening sanctions if he refuses. Dmitry Medvedev, Russia's Security Council deputy chairman, then posted, quote, each new ultimatum is a threat and a step towards war, not between Russia and Ukraine, but with his own country. At midnight last night, Donald Trump posted, and I quote, tell Medvedev, the failed former president of Russia who thinks he's still president, to watch his words. He's entering very dangerous territory. To which Dmitry Medvedev responded hours later. If a few words from a former Russian president can provoke such a nervous reaction from the sitting and supposedly formidable president of the United States, then clearly Russia is entirely in the right. Joining US Now, Michael McFaul, who served as the US ambassador to Russia for President Obama. He is an MSNBC international affairs analyst. Ambassador, what do you make of this back and forth between Trump and Medvedev, but not Putin directly?

[Michael McFaul]

I wish the president of the United States of America would get off of social media and stop getting and trolling Twitter. He's being trolled by Medvedev and he's taking the bait. Don't feed the trolls. It doesn't make him look strong. It makes him look silly. And more importantly, when you make threats as the president has, you have to be prepared to execute on them. Because if you don't, then you even look weaker than if you never made that threat before. One of my colleagues here at Stanford, he was a former Secretary of State, George Shultz. He used to always say he told the story about when he was joining the Marines to fight in World War II, and when his sergeant gave him a gun, he said, george, never point this gun at anybody unless you're prepared to shoot it. And what I worry about is the president is pointing a lot of guns and a lot of tough talk on social media. I hope he will follow through on his threats.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Listen to what Trump said today about Russia. I said, if I get in, I'll try and get the thing stopped. But I think what Russia is doing is very sad. Put sanctions. I don't know that sanctions bother him. You know, they know about sanctions. I know better than anybody about sanctions and tariffs and everything else. I don't know if that has any effect, but we're going to do it. Trump did not say, I'll try and get the thing stopped. Trump said he would end it on day one. Now it seems like the reality of dealing with a nuclear power is setting in.

[Michael McFaul]

Correct. And I want to say clearly that I supported President Trump's idea that he would engage to try to end the war, but he hasn't had a strategy to achieve that objective. His first strategy was to give Putin everything. People need to remember that he was giving Putin everything and putting pressure on the Ukrainians to cede their territory, to say they'll never join NATO again and even not take arms from Western countries. And Putin just asked for more because he thought President Trump was weak. Now, the president has pivoted, and I applaud that. But you've got to pivot with a strategy, not just with rhetorical statements. And so far, I don't see a strategy that we're going to help end this war or help the Ukrainians defend themselves against the Russian army occupying part of their country.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Ambassador McFaul, how do you think Putin is seeing the situation at the moment? Because while Putin is stringing Trump along, Russia's battering Ukraine with some of the worst attacks since the war started.

[Michael McFaul]

It's horrific. I talk to Ukrainians every day. The losses of life and civilians, right? This is terrorist attacks as far as I'm concerned, and we are not helping them to respond to that. If the president wanted to get serious about getting attention in Moscow, he would call for a new package of assistance to Ukraine. And he wouldn't just say, oh, we're gonna try sanctions, but they don't really work. He could develop a comprehensive sanctions package that would reduce the money that Putin has to pay for those drones and would reduce the components, by the way, including components from the west, from the United States that are flowing into Russia to build those weapons. So far, he has not developed that strategy.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Real quickly, Ambassador, does he have anyone in this administration with any expertise or knowledge to put together this strategy that you're talking about?

[Michael McFaul]

That's a tough question. I think at lower levels, in different parts of the government, there are those people. But this is not a government that makes policy bringing in expertise. This is a government and a president that just makes policy in the White House on a whim or late at night on truth social when he's just thinking about what he wants to say. That is not a way to develop a coherent strategy for any foreign policy, especially vis a vis Russia.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Ambassador Michael McFaul, as always, thank you very much for coming to the Last Word. Thank you. Sure. Today marked the. Excuse me. Today marked the end of an era for me. That's next in tonight's last word. On January 5, 2007, a call with Fred Hyatt changed my life. I was dying a slow death at a corporate public relations firm during my second departure from journalism. Fred was the editorial page editor of the Washington Post, and he was on the hunt for an editorial writer. We'd been in touch a few years before, but nothing came of it. This time was different. Hyatt hired me. My first day was February 15, 2007. In my memoir yet Here I Lessons from a Black Man's Search for Home, I described my early days at the Washington Post as a swirl of terrified excitement. And over the next 18 years, five months and 16 days, 15 of those years spent on the editorial board, I would write columns and interview newsmakers for my podcast and Post live events and hosts a weekly Web show called First Look. During that time, we moved from the brutalist architecture of the post building on 15th street to the sleek concrete floored modernity of our new offices on K Street. Rather than toss his old file of research on me into the recycling bin, Fred gave it to me. There were printouts of my columns for the New York Daily News and Bloomberg News. He was looking to see if I was a good fit for the Section. A critical decision made by Jeff Bezos this year that led to the resignation of David Shipley, who succeeded Fred after he passed away in 2021 forced me to contemplate whether the Section was a good fit for me. In February, the owner of the Post decided that the Section would focus on the twin pillars of personal liberties and free markets. We in the section received an email from our new editor which reiterated that and added, it's also important that we communicate with optimism about this country in particular and the future in general. How can we communicate with optimism about the future in general when we're living in the here and now, where American democracy is in peril? Or, put another way, how can one constantly extol the beauty of a home's doors, crown moldings and windows when the rest of the house is engulfed in flames and its foundation is flooding? Unapologetic patriotism is incomplete if it doesn't allow for a mirror to be held up to America, her people, and her president to hold them all accountable when they have strayed from her founding principles. The administration is playing chicken with federal courts. The administration is using masked federal agents to snatch people off the streets and send them to hellish prisons abroad. The administration deployed the military on the streets of an American city. The President is using his office to enrich himself and his family. The President has turned Congress, a co equal branch of government, into the staff wing of the executive branch, and we're supposed to ignore it? Leave it to others to wrestle with on their news pages and websites? No, no, no, no, no no, no. The Constitution gives us the inherent, unapologetically patriotic right to rail against such affronts to democracy and the rule of law, and the First Amendment demands it. That is tonight's last word on my last day at the Washington Post. Definitely the end of an era. I want to thank my colleagues at the Post for all their years of great, great work. Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in Season three, and if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls.

[Jonathan Capehart]

Out of Page 6? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

For office, or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx?

[Jonathan Capehart]

Nowhere else.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff.

[Jonathan Capehart]

So download. Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Rippa now.

[Senator Amy Klobuchar]

Wherever you get your podcasts.