Lawrence: AOC on how to deal with insecure men like Trump. 'Laugh at them. Make them small.'

Summary

The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

Episode Date: October 8, 2025
Main Theme: Senate Judiciary Oversight Hearing on Trump Administration Corruption, Accountability, and How to Handle Insecure Power

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Overview

This episode of The Last Word focuses on a dramatic and contentious Senate Judiciary Committee hearing with Donald Trump’s Attorney General, examining the unprecedented levels of deflection, lack of transparency, and open hostility toward Senate oversight. Lawrence O’Donnell draws on his Senate experience and historical comparisons to highlight how the Trump administration’s approach to governance has broken long-standing norms. The episode also features conversations with Senator Adam Schiff, analysis of the health care shutdown, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s advice for dealing with insecure powerful men like Trump: “Laugh at them. Make them small.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dysfunction and Evasion in the Trump Cabinet

Timestamp: 01:54 – 09:46

• O’Donnell chronicles the staggering incompetence and lack of accountability in Trump’s cabinet, giving special focus to Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, who made explosive claims about Jeffrey Epstein. Lutnick is described by White House insiders as “an effing dumbass” — not for his ignorance about tariffs, but for publicly igniting new Epstein speculation.
• The Attorney General (Bondi) is grilled on these and other scandals, including her department’s shutdown of bribery investigations and allegations of selective prosecution.
• O’Donnell lays out how the cabinet and Senate Republicans have allowed unprecedented stonewalling, with executive officials simply refusing to answer questions they don’t like.

  “They will simply refuse to answer questions from the Democrats. Prior to this incompetent Cabinet, no one in Washington knew that that was an option.” (Lawrence O’Donnell, 07:07)

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2. The Homan $50,000 Bribery Allegation

Timestamp: 09:46 – 18:02

• Senators ask the Attorney General about video evidence showing Trump’s border czar Tom Homan accepting $50,000 in cash from undercover FBI agents.
• AG Bondi refuses to answer directly about what happened to the money, whether Homan declared it on his taxes, or if the FBI recovered it.
• Exchanges devolve into Bondi attacking Democratic senators with personal and partisan barbs instead of answering questions.
• Notable escalation:

  “Did he keep it? Does he have it? Is it at home? Pretty simple questions and not one answer.” (O’Donnell, 13:05)
  “You know there’s a tape, right?... Do you think that it is of public interest for the people to know what happened to the 50 grand?” (O’Donnell, 15:05)

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3. The Epstein “Client List” Contradiction

Timestamp: 18:03 – 21:55

• AG Bondi is pressed by Senator Durbin about previously claiming to possess the “Epstein client list,” which she now denies exists.

• O’Donnell highlights the contradiction—showing that Bondi’s actual comment was “It’s sitting on my desk right now.”

  “She was asked about the list of Jeffrey Epstein’s clients and she said, it is sitting on my desk right now... then she allowed an unsigned Justice Department statement to be released saying there is no Epstein client list... That is something that very, very few of the confirmed 87 attorneys general... have ever publicly done.” (O’Donnell, 18:50)

• Senator Whitehouse asks about rumored photographs linking Trump and Epstein. Bondi dodges again, attacking questioners and refusing direct answers.

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4. An Attorney General Who Only Answers Partisan Questions

Timestamp: 21:55 – 26:56

• AG Bondi establishes an unprecedented pattern of only answering questions from Republican senators, stonewalling Democrats, and responding to legitimate oversight queries with irrelevant insults.
• New senator (implied to be AOC, in Senate) reads a long list of basic questions Bondi refused to answer—ranging from ethics consultations to evidence of selective prosecution and the firing of prosecutors.

  “I think it’s valuable that the American people get a sense of what you’ve refused to answer today... You refused to answer that question…” (AOC, 23:23)

• Once again, the AG responds with sarcasm and personal attacks, and O’Donnell laments the breakdown of norms:

  “I never, ever saw a witness of any kind... interrupt a senator. Never. That is the lost world of sanity that preceded Donald Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party.” (O’Donnell, 27:07)

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5. The Weaponization and Collapse of Oversight

Timestamp: 28:56 – 33:21

• Senator Adam Schiff joins to reflect on the AG’s stonewalling, partisanship, and personal attacks, stating there’s zero assurance that the DOJ isn’t being weaponized against Trump’s enemies.
• Schiff warns that congressional oversight is “a casualty of this Trump regime,” and the only hope is if Republican senators “actually do their job.”
• Memorable quote:

  “None of the oversight, none of the checks and balances unless Republicans decide, hey, they’re going to actually do their job... Oversight has sadly been a casualty of this Trump regime, as so much else has…” (Schiff, 31:35)

• O’Donnell notes this level of witnessing defiance and partisanship is unprecedented.

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6. AOC’s Advice: “Laugh at Them. Make Them Small.”

Timestamp: 33:22 – 41:24

• The show pivots to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) offering her strategy for confronting insecure men in power, like Trump and those around him: ridicule them, don’t fear them.
• Channeling the spirit of Yippie activists and Vietnam-era flower children, AOC says the way to deflate male political puffery and forced supremacy is to “laugh at them, make them small.”
• Notable quote:

  “You look like a clown back there... You’re the second most powerful person in this country and you’re crying about me... Lol. My guy, like, laugh at them. Make them small. These people do this in order to make themselves feel powerful, because deep, deep, deep down inside, they feel and know how small they are.” (AOC, 37:55) “One of the most powerful cultural things that you can do to a political movement that is predicated on the puffery of insecure, insecure masculinity... is by making fun of them.” (AOC, 41:13)

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7. Health Care Showdown: GOP Defections and Democratic Opportunities

Timestamp: 01:05 – 47:54

• O’Donnell and guests analyze House Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene’s surprise break with her party—now siding with Democrats on defending Affordable Care Act tax credits after premiums balloon for her own children.
• Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona discusses how GOP leaders’ strategy is leaving their own members and voters exposed, both on policy substance (health care) and the ongoing Epstein coverup.
• Gallego’s Marine-like bluntness:

  “As they taught me in the Marines, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. And Republicans right now are playing a very stupid game.” (Gallego, 45:24)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• O’Donnell on Cabinet Evasion:
  “They will simply refuse to answer questions from the Democrats. Prior to this incompetent Cabinet, no one in Washington knew that that was an option.” (07:07)

• AG Bondi (on Homan bribe money):
  “Senator, as Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche recently stated, the investigation of Mr. Holman was subjected to a full review by FBI agents. They found no evidence of wrongdoing.” (10:49)

• O’Donnell on the new norm:
  “I never, ever saw a witness of any kind... interrupt a senator. Never. That is the lost world of sanity that preceded Donald Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party.” (27:07)

• AOC’s Insecurity Takedown:
  “Laugh at them. Make them small. These people do this in order to make themselves feel powerful, because deep, deep, deep down inside, they feel and know how small they are.” (37:55)

• Senator Schiff on oversight:
  “Oversight has sadly been a casualty of this Trump regime, as so much else has...” (31:35)

• Senator Gallego on GOP infighting:
  “You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. And Republicans right now are playing a very stupid game.” (45:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:54 – 09:46: Cabinet scandal overview, Lutnick/Epstein bombshells
• 09:46 – 18:02: Homan $50,000 bribery, AG stonewalling
• 18:03 – 21:55: Epstein “client list” contradiction
• 21:55 – 26:56: AG only answers partisan questions, norms destroyed
• 28:56 – 33:21: Senator Schiff on accountability and oversight
• 33:22 – 41:24: AOC on “laughing at” insecure male power
• 41:24 – 47:54: Marjorie Taylor Greene’s defection, health care battle, Gallego interview

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Conclusion

This episode uses a fiery Senate hearing as a lens on the state of American democracy, exposing how the Trump administration’s contempt for checks and balances is changing the very fabric of congressional oversight. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s advice sums up an emerging grassroots strategy: ridicule is a powerful tool against performative, insecure power. The show also examines cracks in GOP unity on health care, hinting at electoral consequences to come. Overall, O’Donnell and his guests portray a U.S. government at a critical crossroads between accountability and authoritarian impunity.

Transcript

[A]

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[D]

Word with Lawrence O', Donnell, though, starts right now. Hey, Lawrence.

[B]

Hey, Jen. Marjorie Taylor Greene has created a real breakthrough in the shutdown. She now agrees with the Democrats on the health care issue, the central issue in this shutdown. I'm going to ask Senator Ruben Gallego about that. He's recently of the House of Representatives. Gets the full dynamics of how this is working. The shutdown is working in the House and the Senate, but the Marjorie Taylor Greene defection could be what cracks this thing open.

[E]

We will see.

[D]

Maybe Marjorie Taylor Greene can read a.

[B]

Poll that's also a good thing. Well, the fact that her her adult children's health care premiums are doubling got her attention. Big surprise. Got her attention.

[F]

That will do. It will be affecting other members children as well.

[B]

But look for it. A lot of listening and watching. Thanks, Jen. Thank you. When Donald Trump chose the most incompetent cabinet in history before his inauguration this year, the question became, how can these absurd characters survive Senate confirmation hearings? And it turned out some of them couldn't. Donald Trump's first choice for attorney general never made it to a confirmation hearing. And at the other extreme, one of them was a former governor of North Dakota who was appointed Secretary of the Interior, a job for which it is actually impossible to flunk in your confirmation hearing. So he made it easily. Donald Trump's choice for Commerce secretary was the typical Republican choice A rich Wall street type who contributed a lot of money to Donald Trump's campaign. Rich Commerce secretaries usually have an easy ride in their confirmation hearings when nominated by Republican or Democratic presidents. And so Howard Lutnick had no real problems in his confirmation hearing at the Commerce Committee, but he is now being called an effing dumbass by people working in the Trump White House. They're not calling him that because he said in an interview last week that he learned everything he knows about tariffs from Donald Trump, who has never actually proved that he knows what a tariff is. Donald Trump continues to tell the lie that other countries pay the Trump tariffs, when in fact, every penny of a tariff imposed by the United States is paid only by people and businesses in the United States. The Trump tariffs are sales taxes paid only by the American people and not by anyone else. And the Commerce Secretary, who White House officials are calling an effing dumbass, their phrase, not mine, apparently does not know that about tariffs. Howard Glutnik has said the stupidest things about tariffs ever spoken by a member of a presidential cabinet. But that is not why they are calling him an effing dumbass in the White House. They are calling him that because he gave an interview on video to the New York Post in which he opened a new avenue of investigation about Donald Trump's old friend, the sex trafficker and raper of children, Jeffrey Epstein. We showed you video of that Howard Lutnick interview on this program last week when it's possible that the Attorney General of the United States was watching that night, because today she testified that she has seen the video of that interview. In the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing today, the most incompetent Attorney General of the United States since Richard Nixon's Attorney General, who was indicted and convicted of crimes, was forced to answer questions about the most incompetent Commerce Secretary in history.

[G]

Secretary Howard Lutnick on October 1st gave an interview to the New York Post about Mr. Epstein, and he described Mr. Epstein as, quote, the greatest blackmailer ever. Close quote. Have you reviewed that transcript of that interview?

[E]

I have not reviewed the transcript, but I saw the clip of it.

[G]

Okay. It appears that Secretary Lutnick was Mr. Epstein's next door neighbor. In fact, their townhomes shared a wall. And the reporter that was asking, talking to Mr. Lutnick, she asked how other prominent men could have been associated with Epstein when Mr. Lutnick could immediately sense that he was a, quote, pervert. And then Secretary Lutnick said, or rather the reporter said, did they see it and ignore It. Do you remember that from the interview?

[E]

I do.

[G]

And Commerce Secretary Lutnick said no, they participated. And then Commerce Secretary Lutnick goes on to say, quote, that's what his M.O.

[F]

Was.

[G]

You know, get a massage. Get a massage. And what happened in that massage room, I assume was a video. This guy was the greatest blackmailer ever. Blackmailed people. That's how he had money. End quote. Is that true?

[E]

Senators, our July memo said we did not uncover evidence. This case has gone through three administrations as well as former U.S. attorney.

[G]

I know that, Pam, but have you. Have you interviewed Secretary Lutnick?

[E]

No.

[G]

Senator, do you plan to.

[E]

If he wants to talk to the FBI or the FBI wants to talk to him, that is more than.

[G]

Don't you think you ought to talk to him after this interview?

[E]

Senator, if Howard Lutnick wants to speak to the FBI and if Director Patel wants to speak to Howard Lutnick, absolutely.

[G]

Okay. Maybe we ought to get Mr. Lutnick in here too. Mr. Chairman.

[B]

Now, I said that Attorney General Bondi was forced to answer questions about Howard Lutnick because that's the normal procedure that Cabinet members find themselves in when testifying to the Senate. But we discovered today that the most incompetent Attorney General in history only feels forced to answer a question if the Senator asking the question is a Republican. But when Democrats ask questions, she simply refuses to answer them. And that was unimaginable before Donald Trump assembled the most incompetent Cabinet in history. The question about the Trump Cabinet before they were confirmed was not just how could they survive confirmation hearings, but how could they survive any Senate hearing about anything, including routine oversight of their department? And the answer has now become obvious. They will simply refuse to answer questions from the Democrats. Prior to this incompetent Cabinet, no one in Washington knew that that was an option. If a Democratic Secretary of the treasury ever refused to answer a question from a Republican during a Senate Finance Committee hearing, when I was the staff director of that committee and Daniel Patrick Moynihan was the chairman of that committee, Chairman Moynihan would have ordered the Democratic Secretary of the treasury or the Democratic Secretary of Health and Human Services or any other Democratic Cabinet member appearing before that committee to answer that Republican senators questions. And Chairman Moynihan would have done that when he was chairman of the Senate Environment Public Works Committee. That's the way it used to work. You had to answer the questions. But the most cowardly Senate in history, the current Republican Senate, has decided to sit idly and silently by on their side of the room. While Trump appointees not only refuse to answer Democratic senators questions, they've decided to publicly attack the Democratic senators for asking questions. We've seen the lethally stupid and dangerous Robert Kennedy Jr. Who owes his job entirely to his father's name, do this when he testifies to the Senate. We've seen Donald Trump's comically inept FBI director try to do it. And today it was Donald Trump's Attorney General's turn. She's the first Attorney General in history to preside over a department that has shut down an investigation into a high ranking member of the administration who was reportedly caught on an FBI video accepting $50,000 in cash from undercover FBI agents last year.

[H]

What became of the $50,000 in cash that the FBI paid to Mr. Homan in a paper bag? Evidently.

[E]

Senator, as Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch recently stated, the investigation of Mr. Homan was subjected to a full review by the FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors. They found no credible evidence of any wrongdoing.

[H]

And that was not my question. My question was, what became of the $50,000 in cash that the FBI delivered, evidently in a paper bag to Mr. Homan?

[E]

Senator, I'd look at your facts.

[H]

Are you saying that they did not deliver $50,000 in cash to Mr. Homan?

[E]

Senator, as recently stated, the investigation of Mr. Homan was subjected to a full review by FBI agents. That's the Department of Justice prosecutors. They found no evidence of wrongdoing.

[H]

That's a different question. What became of the $50,000? Did the FBI get it back?

[E]

Mr. Whitehouse. Excuse me, Senator Whitehouse, you're welcome to.

[H]

Talk to the FBI, the report to you. Can't you answer this question?

[E]

Senator Whitehouse, you're welcome to discuss this with Director Patel.

[H]

Did homan keep the $50,000?

[E]

As Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche recently stated, the investigation of Mr. Holman. Never mind.

[H]

I can see I'm not going to get a straight answer from you. To a very simple.

[E]

FBI agents and the doj, they found no credible evidence of wrongdoing. You know, you're very concerned about money and people taking money and you rail against dark money.

[H]

Wait a second, wait a second.

[E]

You work with dark money groups all the time. Senator, wait a second.

[H]

Did you know whether or not in that investigation they looked at whether the 20, 24 $50,000 payment to Mr. Homan was declared by him on his tax returns?

[E]

Senator, I would be more concerned if I were you when you talk about corruption and money to that you that when you pushed for legislation that would subsidize your wife's company.

[C]

The.

[H]

Questions here are actually pretty specific, so having you respond with completely irrelevant, far right Internet talking points really is not very helpful here. I'd like, Mr. Chairman, you generally like to have us be able to get answers to know and we'll follow up with the qfr. And to the extent Patel wants to answer, that would be great as well. What happened to the $50,000? Did Homan keep it? Did the FBI get it back? If he kept it, did he put it on his tax returns? Pretty simple questions.

[B]

Did he keep it? Does he have it? Is it at home? Pretty simple questions and not one answer.

[F]

Last year, President Trump's new border czar, now border czar, Tom Homan, was videotaped taking a bag with $50,000 in cash from undercover FBI agents after suggesting he could help with government contracts. Sounds like a bribe. Two weeks ago, DOJ officials reportedly shut down the bribery investigation into Mr. Homan. Ms. Bondi, did you approve closing the Homan investigation? Bribery investigation.

[B]

Just get rid of that.

[E]

Senator Hirono, as I stated earlier, the Department of Justice and the FBI conducted a thorough review and they found no credible evidence of any wrongdoing. You were also on video outside the White House protesting with a group called CASA where Antifa members were. Does that mean you're a member of Antifa?

[F]

You know, I simply asked the question as to whether or not you approve the shutting down of the investigation. Mr. Homan, I have to assume that you did because the FBI reports to you. But the American people would look at situation where this person is taking a $50,000 in cash, no less. And you testified today that a thorough investigation was done. Now, I have to assume, I conclude that since no wrongdoing was determined, that in answer to Senator Whitehouse's question, he kept the money. He kept the money. And I hope that he put that on his tax returns as income.

[B]

You know there's a tape, right? With Mr. Homan. I mean, first of all, is there a tape that has audio and video of the transfer of the 50,000?

[E]

You would have to talk to Director Patel about that.

[B]

No, I'm talking to you.

[E]

I don't know the answer.

[B]

Senator, you do know the answer.

[E]

Don't call me a liar.

[B]

I didn't call you a liar.

[E]

You just said, I know the answer. I said, I don't know the answer. You have to talk to. Okay, Director Patel, what I said is that investigation, let me put it another way, closed.

[B]

If you don't know, why don't you know, whether there was a tape and video.

[E]

Senator, I believe that was resolved prior to my confirmation as Attorney General.

[B]

Do you think that it is of public interest for the people to know what happened to the 50 grand that the FBI turned over to Homan?

[E]

Did you hear what I just said? That was resolved prior to my confirmation as Attorney General. That's why I said I would not go.

[B]

It is. It's not resolved. There's $50,000. Homan has it or somebody has it. Do you have no interest in knowing where it is?

[E]

You're not going to sit here and slander Tom Homan.

[B]

Well, she was right about that. He was not sitting there slandering Tom Homan. And every lawyer in the room knows there was not one word of slander against Tom Homan in that room. Donald Trump's so called border czar Tom Homan has never said, I did not take the $50,000. Donald Trump's so called border Tom Homan has never said I don't still have the $50,000. Donald Trump's so called border czar Tom Homan has never said I gave the $50,000 back to the FBI. Donald Trump's so called border czar, Tom Homan has never said I declared the $50,000 on my tax return because it was legitimate income. And in no version of the executive branch of this government in history prior to Donald Trump would it be possible for a member of the administration to be caught on an FBI video taking $50,000 in cash from undercover FBI agents and still have a job in that administration and never be required to tell anyone what happened to the $50,000. That is a corruption level that no previous administration has ever reached. And the most incompetent Attorney General in history refuses to answer every legitimate question about that. The senior Democrat on the committee asked the Attorney General about her most infamous public disagreement with herself in February. You made a public claim that the Epstein client list was, quote, sitting on my desk right now for review, end of quote. You then produce already public information and no client list at a major media event hosted at the White House. Attorney General Bondi, why did you publicly claim to have the Epstein client list waiting for your review and then produce nothing relevant to that claim?

[E]

Senator Durbin, Senator Durbin, if you listen to my entire clip on that, I said I had not reviewed it yet, that it was sitting on my desk along with the JFK files, the Martin Luther King files, and I said I had not yet reviewed it. And if you see our memo on Epstein, you will see Excuse me. Our memo on Epstein clearly points out that there was no client list.

[B]

Okay, let's do what she wants us to do. Let's listen to exactly what she said in that TV interview.

[I]

This is something Donald Trump has talked about. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?

[E]

It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.

[B]

She was asked about the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients and she said, it is sitting on my desk right now. She was not asked about the Epstein file. She was not asked about the thousands of pages of paper and the legal filings in the Epstein files. She was asked about what could be one piece of paper, one page of the Epstein files, the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. And she said, it is sitting on my desk right now. And then she allowed an unsigned Justice Department statement to be released saying there is no Epstein client list. It is not a matter of listening carefully to what she said on Fox to find out that there's no inconsistency. There is a shocking inconsistency. Listening carefully to what she said on Fox proves that she has contradicted herself. That is something that very, very few of the confirmed 87 attorneys general of the United States have ever publicly done. Most of our attorneys general, from the first in President Washington's administration, Edmund Jennings Randolph, right through to the Biden administration, never once publicly contradicted themselves. It is something that most lawyers in a lifetime of practice never do publicly contradict themselves. It doesn't happen. But it is what the most incompetent Attorney General in history is now most famous for. Senator Whitehouse had a question about something else that might be in the Epstein files.

[H]

Let me ask you something else. There's been public reporting that Jeffrey Epstein showed people photos of President Trump with half naked young women. Do you know if the FBI found those photographs in their search of Jeffrey Epstein's safe or premises or otherwise? Have you seen any such thing?

[E]

You know, Senator Whitehouse, you sit here and make salacious remarks once again trying to slander President Trump left and right, when you're the one who was taking money from one of Epstein's closest confidants. I believe I could be wrong. Correct me, Reid Hoffman, who was with Jeffrey Epstein on multiple occasions, and the senator sitting right next to you tried to block the flight logs from being released. Yeah, you're grilling me on President Trump and some photograph with Epstein. Come on.

[H]

The question is, did the FBI find those Photographs that have been discussed publicly by a witness who claimed Jeffrey Epstein showed them to him. You don't know anything about that. Okay, here's what some. Well, now we cut to something else.

[B]

Why didn't she say no? Does the FBI have, quote, photos of President Trump with half naked young women? Do you know if the FBI found those photographs in their search of Jeffrey Epstein's safe or premises or otherwise? Have you seen any such thing? Why didn't she say no when she was asked by a Republican senator, did you see the video of Howard Lutnick talking about Jeffrey Epstein? She said yes. She answered all those questions. She knows how to answer yes or no questions. Why wouldn't Donald Trump's attorney general want to shut down the possibility that the Epstein files contain photographs that were in Jeffrey Epstein's possession of Donald Trump with very young women? Why didn't she say no? Committee members asked their questions in order of seniority on the committee. And so our first guest tonight, who is the newest Democratic member of the committee, was the last Democratic senator to deal with the first attorney general in history who will only answer questions from senators who are members of her political party. The junior most member of the Judiciary Committee chose what turned out to be the best possible approach at that point to an attorney general who lives in fear of answering questions.

[I]

I think it's valuable that the American people get a sense of what you've refused to answer today. So these are just some of the questions you refuse to answer or have answered with personal attacks on members of this committee. You were asked whether you consulted with career ethics lawyers as you promised you would do during your nomination hearing when you approved the president receiving a $400 million gift from the Qataris. You refused to answer that question. You were asked who or what role you may have played or who played the role in asking that Trump's name be flagged in any of the Epstein documents gathered by the FBI. You refused to answer that question. You were asked whether Homan kept the $50,000 bribe money. You refused to answer that question. You were asked whether Homan paid taxes on the $50,000 bribe money. You refused to answer that question. You were asked, did career prosecutors find insufficient evidence to charge James Comey? You refused to answer that question. You were asked, how are military strikes on these boats in the Caribbean legal? And you refuse to even answer that question. Excuse me. Excuse me. You are asked, did you discuss indicting James Comey with the president? You refused to answer that question. You were asked, did you approve the firing of Any trust lawyers who disagreed with the Hewlett Packard merger. You fused to answer that question. You were asked whether you support a restoration fund for violent insurrections, insurrections to attack the Capitol on January 6, refused to answer that question. You were asked whether you were firing career professionals, career prosecutors, just because they worked on January 6th. Question. January 6th investigations. You refused to answer that question. You were asked by my California colleague whether you believe government officials, like immigration officials have to abide by court orders. You wouldn't even answer that question. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing.

[E]

Oversight.

[I]

Excuse me. You can attack me after my time is over.

[E]

Oh, you've attacked all of us, including.

[I]

President Trump for your attacker. And I know you've got plenty of canned attacks. We've heard them all day today.

[E]

Canned attacks on you.

[I]

This is supposed. No one needs a canned attack on you regular order. Madam Chair, I'm trying to speak. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing of the Justice Department, and it comes in the wake of an indictment called for by the president of one of his enemies. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing, and it comes in the wake of revelations that a top administration official took $50,000 in a bag and this department made that investigation go away. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing when dozens of prosecutors have been fired simply because they worked on cases investigating the former president. This is. And now the president.

[E]

Look at the fires in California.

[I]

This is. Excuse me. This is supposed to be an oversight hearing in which members of Congress can get serious answers to serious questions about.

[E]

Are the riots in la serious.

[I]

About the COVID up of corruption, about the prosecution of the President's enemies.

[E]

I think you owe the president apology.

[I]

When will it be. When will it be that the members of this committee, on a bipartisan basis, demand answers to those questions and refuse to accept.

[E]

Clearly you're a failed lawyer.

[I]

Personal slander as an answer to those questions.

[B]

In all my years working in the United States Senate, more hearings than I can count in two committees that I was the staff director of. I never, ever saw a witness of any kind. Cabinet Member Arthur. Interrupt a senator. Never. That is the lost world of sanity that preceded Donald Trump's takeover of the Republican Party. Senator Adam Schiff will join us after this break. When it comes to delivering flowers for life's special occasions, trust the name that's been setting the standard for nearly 50 years. 1,800flowers.com from breathtaking bouquets to one of a kind arrangements, 1,800-flowers is your authority on quality blooms. Always fresh, always stunning, always delivered with care. And right now, for a limited time, you can save up to 40% off your bouquet and make someone's day.

[D]

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[B]

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[A]

Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving. Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety. With Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teen safe. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie.

[B]

One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. And for decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Get all your jobs done [e-mail].

[I]

The Justice Department has been used to cover up the possible corruption of the mayor of New York or of a high level administration official taking $50,000 reportedly in cash in a bag, or a child sex predator who befriended the President and some of his cabinet members. Instead of preventing partisan weaponization, your department has engaged in a brazenly political prosecution at the President's explicit direction. The department has become President Trump's personal sword and shield to go after his ever growing list of political enemies and to protect himself, his allies and associates.

[B]

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And Senator, most of us out here know that you are one of the declared enemies of Donald Trump, who Donald Trump has told that attorney general to prosecute for we have no idea what. But that's one you're one of his targets. Was the Attorney general able to assure you today that absolutely nothing like that's going on in the Justice Department?

[I]

No, certainly not. There were really two themes that I wanted to emphasize in my questions to her. One was the effort to cover up corruption by the Attorney general, by the Justice Department, cover up the Epstein investigation, cover up the Homan investigation, cover up for the mayor of New York, but also, and even more dangerously, their willingness to use the Justice Department to go after the President's enemies. And as you saw, she refused to answer any questions about the indictment of James Comey, about whether prosecutors had filed a declination memo finding insufficient evidence, whether this is why the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia had been fired. She wouldn't speak to any of those truly serious abuses of the Department of Justice. I think she had really two objects today. One was to continue the COVID up and the other was to deflect any questions about the weaponization of the department under her leadership by using these canned attacks on the various senators with the basic object of pleasing the angry old man down the street, the only audience that really matters to her. But here's the thing. Like so much else in the Senate these days, none of it is really going to work. None of the oversight, none of the checks and balances unless Republicans decide, hey, they're going to actually do their job. And that includes doing legitimate oversight. It includes when a witness deflects, when a witness refuses to answer, let alone engages in personal attacks to hide their deflection, that the leadership of the committee and the members of the committee say, hey, no, we're going to demand answers. That obviously didn't happen today. Oversight has sadly been a casualty of this Trump regime, as so much else has, as the power of the person, Congress has the power to declare war in Congress. All of those powers of Congress are being ceded to the president one at a time.

[B]

Well, it seems that Republican senators have all taken a vow to Donald Trump, the chairs of those committees, to never, ever, ever order any of the Trump witnesses to answer questions in those committees. And that's a brand new thing for the United States States Senate.

[I]

Well, it certainly seems to be new from what I've studied of the history. Now, I'm new to the Senate, but even in the House, in prior administrations, Democratic and Republican, when we would ask questions of members of the administration, we would generally get answers. And they might try to artfully dodge the question, but they at least made some, some effort to provide an answer and we would be able to pin them down. And I never witnessed what we have seen now in Bondi and in Patel where their only answers is to try to insult the questioner. But you know, again, this goes to really the central necessity of these cabinet members to keep their positions, and that is to endlessly flagellate themselves in the service of Donald Trump, endlessly demean themselves, belittle themselves in order to gratify the president. And that was just on full display today.

[B]

Senator Adam Schiff, thank you very, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[I]

Thank you.

[B]

And Coming up, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has found a new way to deal with insecure men like Donald Trump and all the insecure men who work for him. Her way is, quote, laugh at them, make them small. That's next.

[A]

Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving? Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding, and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.

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[A]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie.

[B]

When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well, from roof repair to emergency emergency plumbing and more done well. So the next time you have a home project, leave it to the pros. Get [e-mail] the last American casualties in Vietnam were two United States Marines killed together in action in Vietnam on April 29, 1975. It took eight increasingly intense years of protest and the protesters won. That's how that war ended. The protests seemed hopeless for most of those eight years. But in the end, the United States surrendered in defeat in Vietnam. Because the anti war protest movement won. They gradually convinced enough Democratic members of the House and Senate to stop funding America's deadliest war since World War II. And Republican President Gerald Ford had to give up. Republican Secretary of State Henry Kissinger complained for the rest of his life that Democrats in Congress would not allow him him to continue fighting that war the way he wanted to. Most of the protesters were somber and serious, like Vietnam veteran John Kerry, who courageously testified to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and delivered the strongest condemnation of that war that the Senate had ever heard. John Kerry would go on to serve as the Chairman of that same Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But there was another side of the protest movement, personified by Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, the leaders of what they called the Yippies. Almost everyone in the protest movement was a hippie, but the Yippies brought a captivating silliness to everything they did. TV news cameras loved the Yippies antics at protests, including the day the Yippies surrounded the Pentagon, promising to levitate it. And then there were the flower children, the mellowest of hippies who gave the world a different perspective on the National Guard troops who were called out by President Richard Nixon to intimidate protesters. This is one of the most powerful images of the entire era of protest. An anonymous flower child placing a flower in the barrel of a soldier's rifle. The flower turned out to be more powerful than the rifle. The flower won. Abby Hoffman and Jerry Rubin laughed at Richard Nixon. They laughed at Henry Kissinger. They laughed at the federal judge who presided over their trial, known as the Trial of the Chicag. They laughed at the judge who would be legally empowered to send them to prison. And they turned him into a small man, a small, petty man who, as it happened, never got the chance to send them to prison. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez saw none of that. She was born 14 years after the last American military soldiers were. Those Marines were killed in Vietnam. But she has had an idea that the Yippies and the flower children would, like, laugh at them, make them small.

[D]

Tom Holman, who was the acting director of ICE, who was later allegedly reported to be taking $50,000 in cash in kava bags, whatever. Allegedly, according to some of this reporting, this guy is a joke. He is. I am using clean language on this live, but this guy is a joke. Christy Noem is a joke. J.D. vance, the Vice President of the United States, went behind a podium and went, boo hoo hoo. The shutdown is AOC's fault. As though this man isn't Vice President of the United States of America. You know what I have to say to that? You look like a clown back there. You're the second most powerful person in this country and you're crying about me and you're blaming the whole government shutdown on me. Lol. My guy, like, laugh at them. Make them small. These people do this in order to make themselves feel powerful, because deep, deep, deep down inside, they feel and know how small they are. And in order for a small person to feel big, they have to crush someone else. And like, like, that is what their whole political identity is all about. It is about this forced supremacy that is based on nothing because they feel and know how small they actually are. The point is, is that they are scrapping and grasping at straws because they have nothing else. Laugh at them. Stephen Miller is a clown. I've never seen that guy in real life, but he looks like he's like 410 and he looks like he is angry about the fact that he's 410 and he looks like he is so mad that he is 410 that he's taking that anger out at any other population possible. Like laugh at them. Laugh at them. Also, someone said short kings are great. Absolutely. I'm not here. I want to absolutely make sure that I talk about that. I'm not here to make fun of anyone's anything but the way people over compensate over their own stories is what I'm talking about There one of the most powerful cultural things that you can do to a political movement that is predicated on the puffery of insecure, insecure masculinity. That's what this is about. This isn't people talk about toxic masculinity more than it like let's put that to the side for just one second. This is about insecure masculinity. And one of the best ways that you can dismantle a movement of insecure men is by making fun of them, by having secure men who aren't afraid of successful people around them who are good dads who have strong values also participating in that as well.

[B]

Our next guest is a Marine combat veteran who thinks the current Secretary of Defense who falsely claims to be the secretary of War is quote, a laughingstock. Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego, who tonight finds himself in rare agreement with of all people, Marjorie Taylor Greene will join us after this break. And the most important policy break with the Republican Party this year by any Republican member of the House or Senate. Georgia Congressman Marjorie Taylor Greene has turned against everyone in her party and joined the Democrats demands about health care. She tweeted, quote, I'm going to go against everyone on this issue because when the tax credits expire this year, my own adult children's insurance premiums for 2026 are going to double. Along with all the wonderful families and hardworking people in my district. Not a single Republican in leadership talked to us about this or has given us a plan to help Americans deal with their health insurance premiums doubling three exclamation points. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries said this.

[C]

Because of the Republican refusal to extend The Affordable Care act tax credits. As Marjorie Taylor Greene herself has acknowledged, tens of millions of people are about to experience dramatically increased health insurance costs. How is that acceptable in the wealthiest country in the history of the world? It's not. And a growing number Republicans clearly are adopting the enlightened Democratic position.

[B]

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ruben Gallo of Arizona. He's a member of the Senate Banking Committee and the Senate Homeland Security Committee. Senator, that seems like a pretty big break in the House Republican wall for Marjorie Taylor Greene to come across to your side on this issue.

[C]

Well, it definitely is, and it's a win for everyday Americans. And the idea that there are some of these Republicans that are in districts that are winning by a couple hundred votes, maybe a couple thousand votes, and now, you know, Michael Johnson is asking them to take a walk on the plank and jump into the ocean without any plan. Right. I mean, he's basically having them hold cannonballs and jump in. You're basically going to deal in about one or two more weeks with a lot of constituents calling their members of Congress and saying, I now have to pay hundreds of dollars or more per month for health insurance. I wasn't anticipating. What are you going to do to fix it? And their answer is going to be, I have no answer because Michael Johnson basically holding Congress out of session as long as possible for two reasons. Number one, so that way there is no negotiation. And number two, to cover for all the pedophiles in the Epstein list. You know, the fact that this man has not, you know, sworn in duly elected woman Aralita Grijalva from Southern Arizona, because she will be the 218th signature on the Epstein discharge list. And at the end of the day, it's going to do two things. Number one, cover up for pedophiles, and number two, increase the insurance for 24 million Americans. That is what Republicans are going to have to defend. Coming to 2026, it's already going to be hard is that they're covering for pedophiles and they're dropping your coverage for insurance in the process.

[B]

And Senator, this could be a big factor in Senate races. Were Republican senators as ignorant about what they were voting for as Marjorie Taylor Greene apparently was? She' sand I understand in the House that there's a tremendous reliance on leadership to explain to members this is what's in the bill. She's saying they never explained it to her.

[C]

Yeah, I believe that they were explaining to him. But I think part of the problem is a lot of these members of Congress and senators don't ever actually shop for health insurance. I shop for health insurance. I shop on the Affordable Health Care act market for the insurance for my family. So I actually know when open enrollment happens. I think the fact is a lot of them are so separated from reality. A lot of them are multimillionaires, do not actually have to buy or care about, you know, what happens to their monthly budget. But it's about to hit in the Senate. I think they have a little more understanding, but at the same time, a lot of them are removed so far removed because they don't have to stand up for election in next year. But let's be real, there's going to be a lot of Republicans in the House that are going to be hurting. There's going to be a couple of senators, particularly Susan Collins from Maine, who this is entirely within her hands to fix, by the way, as the head of appropriations, is going to really have to answer to the voters of Maine about why she jacked up the prices of everybody in her state and across the country. So there's just going to be a lot of people that are going to be paying and they're going to be paying it by losing elections. And you know what, as they taught me in the Marines, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. And Republicans right now are playing a very stupid game.

[B]

And by the way, Speaker Johnson has a new story every time he's asked why he hasn't sworn in the newest duly elected member of the House from your state.

[C]

Well, I haven't heard it what the newest one is, but I suspect it's something ridiculous and stupid because he has both. But number two, it doesn't really matter what his excuse is. The end result is you're going to have, you know, millions, 24 million Americans, they're going to have their increase, their premiums increased by almost double. Four million Americans are going to lose their coverage. In Arizona, it's going to be 100,000 that are automatically going to lose their coverage. And even more so than that, a family of four is going to end up paying probably close to $4,000 more for their insurance. That's all being done by people like Mike Johnson, which he's probably fine as a very safe Louisiana district, but we have other districts that are just going to end up hurting. In Arizona, for example, Qantas Commandes District, he only wins it by a couple thousand votes per year and he's about to increase insurance on tens of thousands of people in his district because he's too dumb to actually read the bills and understand what's about to happen.

[B]

Arizona Senator Ruben Gaillu, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We'll be right back. Senator Ruben Gallego gets tonight's last word.

[A]

Did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving. Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time, help keep your teens safe. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.