Lawrence: As long as Trump is alive he should face questions about Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Lawrence: As long as Trump is alive he should face questions about Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
• Host: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC
• Episode Title: Lawrence: As long as Trump is alive he should face questions about Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell
• Release Date: August 7, 2025
• Description: Leveraging his extensive political background and experience in media production, Lawrence O'Donnell delves into significant political narratives, providing critical analysis and insightful commentary.

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1. Introduction to the Episode

Timestamp: [01:05]

Lawrence O'Donnell kicks off the episode by highlighting the primary focus: the intertwining of former President Donald Trump with the late Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. He underscores the absence of substantive discussions about Epstein despite the attempts to reference the situation indirectly.

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2. Critique of Vice President J.D. Vance's Handling of the Epstein Situation

Timestamp: [01:05] - [07:36]

a. Lack of Transparency in Addressing Epstein

O'Donnell criticizes Vice President J.D. Vance for not openly addressing the Epstein situation. He emphasizes that every Trump-related meeting is indirectly tied to Epstein, aiming to divert attention from Trump's associations with Epstein and Maxwell.

Notable Quote:

"Every meeting is about the Epstein situation, every Trump event and every Trump meeting... is about the Epstein situation." [01:05]

b. Press Corps' Failure to Pursue Relevant Questions

He highlights the ineffectiveness of the White House press corps in pressing Trump on Epstein-related matters. Only a handful of questions touched upon Epstein and Maxwell, while the majority were diverted to unrelated topics, reflecting a stifled and compliant media environment.

Notable Quote:

"We have never had a more reliably weak White House press corps when presenting questions to a President of the United States." [06:00]

c. Trump's Evasive Responses

O'Donnell details Trump's evasive tactics when questioned about Vice President Vance's alleged meetings regarding Epstein, pointing out the president's strategies to undermine the press and avoid accountability.

Notable Quote:

"Donald Trump knows that. Was Donald Trump lying? Everyone in that room knows that Donald Trump was lying when he said he doesn't know..." [07:52]

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3. The Epstein Scandal and Its Impact

Timestamp: [07:36] - [26:20]

a. Legal and Ethical Concerns

O'Donnell delves into the severity of Epstein and Maxwell's crimes, emphasizing the vast number of victims and the ongoing legal implications. He condemns the transfer of Ghislaine Maxwell to a lower-security prison, labeling it a miscarriage of justice.

Notable Quote:

"Maxwell's transfer to the camp in Bryan is a travesty of justice." [05:00]

b. Press Engagement with the Scandal

He commends Kathryn Lucey of Bloomberg and Nancy Cordes of CBS for their direct questioning about Epstein and Maxwell, contrasting their efforts with the broader press corps' lack of engagement.

Notable Quote:

"Kathryn Lucey of Bloomberg and Nancy Cordes of CBS did their jobs. They were the only ones." [13:36]

c. Impact on Victims and Families

O'Donnell brings attention to the victims' families, particularly Virginia Giuffre's, highlighting their ongoing struggle and the necessity for their voices to be heard in discussions about the meeting allegedly addressing the Epstein situation.

Notable Quote:

"Their voices must be heard." [25:00]

---

4. Interview with Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthy

Timestamp: [24:04] - [26:20]

O'Donnell interviews Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthy of Illinois regarding a resolution opposing any presidential pardon or sentence reduction for Ghislaine Maxwell.

a. Resolution Against Pardon for Maxwell

Krishnamoorthy explains the rationale behind the resolution, emphasizing that Maxwell's conviction and sentencing are justified and that any clemency would deny justice to survivors.

Notable Quote:

"Any receipt of a pardon, commutation or other form of clemency by Ghislaine Maxwell would deny survivors the justice they deserve." [24:04]

b. Broader Implications on Pardon Power

The discussion touches upon the misuse of presidential pardon powers and the urgent need to focus on the extensive Epstein files to uncover the truth rather than rely on potentially fabricated testimonies.

Notable Quote:

"We should be focused like a hawk on the underlying files because that's what really contains, in my opinion, the truth of what's occurred." [25:19]

---

5. Texas Democrats Face Bomb Threat Amid Redistricting Controversy

Timestamp: [28:21] - [30:26]

a. Incident Overview

O'Donnell reports on a bomb threat directed at Democratic members of the Texas State Legislature who traveled to Illinois to counteract Trump's redistricting efforts aimed at increasing Republican seats in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Notable Quote:

"Texas lawmakers who traveled to Illinois over a redistricting controversy... were evacuated from a suburban Chicago hotel following a threat." [28:21]

b. Senator Cornyn's Response

Senator John Cornyn of Texas urges the FBI to take action against potential lawbreakers involved in the coercion and threats against Democratic legislators, highlighting the escalating tensions surrounding redistricting.

Notable Quote:

"There are no appropriate steps for the FBI to take because Texas state legislators have not broken any law." [28:21]

---

6. California's Strategic Response to Republican Redistricting Efforts

Timestamp: [30:26] - [35:05]

a. Governor Gavin Newsom's Stance

Governor Gavin Newsom outlines California's plan to "fight fire with fire" in response to Texas's redistricting maneuvers. He emphasizes collaboration with the legislature to ensure California does not become a victim of undermining democratic processes.

Notable Quote:

"We'll fight back. We'll assert ourselves and we'll punch above our weight." [30:26]

b. Representative Zoe Lofgren's Initiatives

Representative Zoe Lofgren of California discusses the development of congressional maps designed to counteract Republican efforts to gain seats. She stresses the importance of voter involvement and adherence to the Voting Rights Act.

Notable Quote:

"We're very unified on this. We can't just wait and see." [32:24]

c. Potential Spread of Redistricting Battles

O'Donnell highlights the likelihood of similar redistricting battles in other states like Indiana and Ohio, indicating a nationwide struggle over congressional seat allocations.

Notable Quote:

"Texas is not going to pull back. And then, of course, they're going to Indiana, they're going to go to Ohio and other places." [34:00]

---

7. Elon Musk's Political Influence and Its Consequences

Timestamp: [35:06] - [45:57]

a. Tesla Sales and Political Contributions

O'Donnell critiques Elon Musk for his significant financial contributions to Republican candidates, arguing that Tesla buyers inadvertently support Republican campaigns through their purchases.

Notable Quote:

"Most Americans have never contributed to a political campaign and never will. But thousands of Americans unwittingly did exactly that when they bought the Teslas." [37:08]

b. Musk's Attempt to Form a Rival Party

He discusses Musk's failed attempt to establish a new political party, portraying it as a misguided effort that hasn't resonated with voters or Tesla buyers.

Notable Quote:

"Elon Musk pretending to create a new political party... hasn't worked yet." [43:06]

c. Financial Times Interview with Joe Miller

In an interview segment, Joe Miller from the Financial Times elaborates on Musk's tumultuous political donations and the lack of coherence in his political strategies.

Notable Quote:

"His political instincts are at best muddled." [43:06]

d. Donald Trump's Response to Musk's Popularity

O'Donnell highlights an interaction where Trump dismisses a Gallup poll indicating Musk's unpopularity, yet acknowledges Musk as a "good person" despite his contentious moments.

Notable Quote:

"I think he's a good person. I think he had a bad moment, really bad moment, but he's a good person." [42:41]

e. Consequences for Tesla and Musk's Leadership

O'Donnell points out the irony of Musk receiving a substantial $29 billion reward from Tesla despite undermining the company's sales and reputation through his political entanglements.

Notable Quote:

"The Tesla board will give you an additional $29 billion because meritocracy has absolutely nothing to do with the way the world works for billionaires." [44:39]

---

8. Closing Remarks and Teasers for Upcoming Content

Timestamp: [45:57] - [46:07]

Lawrence O'Donnell wraps up the episode by previewing upcoming segments and advertising, ensuring listeners remain engaged for future discussions.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Lawrence O'Donnell delivers a comprehensive and critical analysis of ongoing political controversies revolving around Donald Trump's associations with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. He highlights the failures of the White House press corps in holding Trump accountable, explores the legislative battles over redistricting, and delves into the complex political influence exerted by Elon Musk. Through incisive commentary and insightful interviews, O'Donnell underscores the pressing need for transparency, accountability, and justice in these intertwined political scandals.

---

Note: This summary intentionally omits advertisements, promos, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions and analyses presented during the episode.

Transcript

[Scott Aukerman]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The Last Word with Lawrence O' Donnell starts right now. Hey Lawrence. Hey Jed. Thank you very much. We have so much to get to tonight with the breaking news, especially about what's going on with the Texas legislature. So Loughran is going to join us with the California response to all this. Gavin Newsom saying we're going to fight fire with fire. We'll find out what the California plan is. Can't wait to hear about it. We love the fire. Thanks, Jen. Thanks, Lars. Thank you. We're not meeting to talk about the Epstein situation. Those are the actual words of the least believable vice president in history today in the Oval Office when his plans for a meeting at the vice President's residence tonight to talk about the Epstein situation leaked so widely, including to NBC News, that James David Vance had to deny that he was planning a meeting to talk about the Epstein situation. He didn't deny the meeting. He simply said we're not meeting to talk about the Epstein situation. Every meeting is about the Epstein situation, every Trump event and every Trump meeting, Trump administration meeting, Trump White House meeting is about the Epstein situation. Everything Donald Trump and everyone in his White House is doing all day, every day now is about the Epstein situation. It's about how to extract Donald Trump from his personal history with child rapist Jeffrey Epstein, who said, quote, I was Donald's closest friend for 10 years. That meeting in the Oval Office today where Donald Trump said he was going to impose an illegal, unconstitutional 100% tariff on computer chips was about the Epstein situation. It was about distracting attention from the Epstein situation. And it worked with almost all the White House reporters in the room who were allowed to ask questions. 33 questions were allowed from the White House press corps in that room, and exactly four of them were about the Epstein situation. Actually two questions, each with a follow up, which is really two questions about the Trump situation, because there is no Epstein situation. Jeffrey Epstein is dead. And as long as Donald Trump is alive, Donald Trump should face questions and suspicions about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And the White House press corps should unite in its pursuit of answers to those questions. But the current White House press corps has no idea how to do that. The current White House press corps is mostly lost. And so each time Donald Trump was asked about Jeffrey Epstein today, the next reporter asking a question immediately changed the subject, which is exactly what Donald Trump wanted that reporter to do, exactly what Donald Trump is counting on from those reporters. We have never had a more reliably weak White House press corps when presenting questions to a President of the United States. Kathryn Lucey of Bloomberg asked a good question about Jeffrey Epstein with a quick follow up. And Nancy Cordes of CBS asked a quick question, asked a question about Ghislaine Maxwell. Good question. Meeting with Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer with a quick follow up. And not another reporter in the room asked a question about Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell or Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell or Ghislaine Maxwell being switched to a low security prison which she was not qualified to be transferred to and which is now involving extra expense for taxpayers because the security at that prison had to be enhanced simply because that one sex criminal has arrived at that prison, the only sex criminal ever to be assigned to that low security prison. Robert Hood, a former Bureau of Prison's chief of internal affairs, told NBC News in an email that, quote, Maxwell's transfer to the camp in Bryan is a travesty of justice. To relocate a sex offender serving 20 years to a country club setting is offensive to victims and others serving similar crimes, wrote Hood. 28 questions by the White House press corps today were not about that, had nothing to do with that. And not one of those 28 questions got an answer from Donald Trump that illuminated anything. Not one of the 28 questions got an answer from Donald Trump that was real in any sense. Every one of those 28 got a flow of nonsensical gibberish from Donald Trump that included lies. And so the White House press corps is failing before our eyes every chance they get to question Donald Trump, every time they fail to pursue the only president in history who had a best friend for 10 years who was raping children nearly every day of those 10 years. Donald Trump's own Justice Department, which he now owns and operates, has said that Jeffrey Epstein Republic raped over a thousand victims. A thousand. More than a thousand. They don't know how many. They don't know how many thousands of children Jeffrey Epstein may have raped. And most of the White House press corps does not care. Nothing can make them care. Most of the White House press corps has no idea what any of those victims of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell have said under oath about what happened to them. We are watching the worst president in history manipulate the worst White House press corps in history every day. But not Katherine Lacey and not Nancy Cortez. Not today. It was Kathryn Lucey of Bloomberg who got Donald Trump to lie about the J.D. vance meeting, about the Epstein situation.

[Unknown]

Is President Vance hosting a gathering this evening to talk about how to respond to the Epstein situation?

[Donald Trump]

Is he working on what?

[Unknown]

Is he hosting some kind of gathering of top advisors this evening to talk about how to respond to the Epstein situation?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know. I could ask you that question.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Donald Trump knows that. Was Donald Trump lying? Everyone in that room knows that Donald Trump was lying when he said he doesn't know if his vice president was having a meeting about him. The other reporters in that room did not care that Donald Trump just lied to their faces and laughed at them, saying, I don't know. I could ask you that question. These are the same White House reporters, many of them, who screamed at Joe Biden in unison about the same subject when they believed their job was to attack him. And when they teamed up to attack Joe Biden's White House press secretary, Karine Jean Pierre, they conducted coordinated screaming attacks on her. And Donald Trump stands there and lies to their faces, insults them and laughs at them, and they accept it. Here's the rest of what Donald Trump said in response to Kathryn Lucey of Bloomberg.

[Donald Trump]

I don't know. I could ask you that question. I don't know of it, but I think here's the man right here.

[Unknown]

I saw it reported today, and it's completely fake news. We're not meaning to talk about the Epstein situation, and I think the reporter who reported it needs to get better sources.

[Donald Trump]

Look, the whole thing is a hoax. It's put out by the Democrats because we've had the most successful Six months in the history of our country.

[Zoe Lofgren]

And.

[Donald Trump]

And that's just a way of trying to divert attention to something that's total bullshit.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Okay? They're used to it now. They are completely beaten down. The White House press corps hears the President of the United States in the Oval Office use profanity, and they have absolutely no reaction to it whatsoever. The first president in history to do that, and he now does it repeatedly, especially about this subject. The Epstein situation, which is really the Trump situation, is what pushes Donald Trump to use that word and use it repeatedly. Donald Trump brings his deviancy into the Oval Office and flashes it for all to see and hear. His vulgarity, his profanity. Most of us use profanity, but most of us know when it's inappropriate. We don't use words like that in church. We don't use words like that with children. We don't use words like that here on this program. And children have been listening admiringly to presidents of the United States since the invention of radio. And children have only heard one president in history descend into the puddle of profanity that Donald Trump routinely uses. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to use the phrase defining deviancy down to describe what Donald Trump has done to presidential conduct and presidential language. Donald Trump has defined the deviancy down to his personal deviancy. And the entire Republican Party supporting Donald Trump has succumbed to Donald Trump's deviancy. His deviancy includes repeatedly giving his best wishes to sex criminal child rapist Ghislaine Maxwell. He said, I wish her well when he was asked about her while she was in jail awaiting trial, a trial where she was convicted. Donald Trump was a friend of Ghislaine Maxwell, and apparently he's behaving as if he still is. And now every meeting at the White House is about how to get Donald Trump out of the photograph that we have of Donald Trump right here with Ghislaine Maxwell, taken in the year 2000, when she was Jeffrey Epstein's girlfriend, when she was Jeffrey Epstein's criminal co conspirator in raping children, when she personally was participating in the rape of children with Jeffrey Epstein. That's Donald Trump sitting beside her in what we know was the prime of her criminal conduct and raping of children. Donald Trump has always boasted about the best people. He knows the best people. He says he hires the best people. He says he's especially perceptive about people. And there he is sitting beside a sex criminal and now insisting that he had no idea, he had no idea what kind of person she was. And today, insisting that he has no idea what his vice president is doing about him. Donald Trump chose his vice president knowing that the vice president has the power to invoke the 25th Amendment, along with a majority of the Cabinet against Donald Trump, to remove Donald Trump from the powers of the presidency. And so one of the requirements about being Donald Trump's vice president is that you must never have a meeting about Donald Trump that Donald Trump doesn't know about. And so Donald Trump told his idiotic lie today, saying, I don't know. Is the vice president having a meeting about you? Answer, I don't know. Nancy Cortez of CBS News asked about Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer, who is now the deputy attorney general, meeting with Donald Trump's old friend in that photograph, Ghislaine Maxwell. Have you been briefed on what Ghislaine.

[Unknown]

Maxwell told Todd Blanche?

[Donald Trump]

No, I haven't.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I don't know whether it came up in the conversation.

[Donald Trump]

Senator Todd is a very respected person all over the country, all over the world, legally. So I don't know.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I don't know. That's a lie. Donald Trump was briefed by Todd Blanche and by his attorney general about how many times Donald Trump's name appears in the Epstein files that they searched specifically for his name. They put thousands of FBI agents on the case, studying the Epstein files, looking for Donald Trump's name. And then they went to the Oval Office, that same room where Donald Trump lied today, to brief Donald Trump on that. And only after that was Todd Blanche sent to Florida to speak to a convicted federal prisoner who has never spoken to a federal investigator before and never testified at her criminal trial and never denied raping children at her sentencing hearing. When she did speak, pleading for a light sentence, Nancy Cortez wisely asked, so you don't know whether you came up in the conversation? And Donald Trump said, I don't know. Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer, who has never been replaced as Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer and presumably would immediately revert to Donald Trump's personal criminal defense lawyer as soon as Donald Trump needs one again, went to speak with Ghislaine Maxwell. And Donald Trump is claiming today that he doesn't know whether his personal criminal defense lawyer asked Ghislaine Maxwell about him or if Ghislaine Maxwell said anything about him. Some press reports already indicate naming sources who are aware of what was discussed, that Ghislaine Maxwell said nothing that could be harmful to Donald Trump. That's already public information, and it is obvious information. It is the only reason for Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer to go to talk to Ghislaine Maxwell. There was to try to extricate Donald Trump from his own personal history of friendships with two sex criminals, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. And Donald Trump's mission every day is to throw nonsense at the news media to distract them from the only child rape scandal in the history of the White House, to distract them from what Robert Hood calls the travesty of justice, of Ghislaine Maxwell being relocated from a federal prison capable of housing sex offenders to a so called country club prison that does not allow sex offenders to serve time there. Unless. Unless Donald Trump wants that sex offender to serve lighttime in that country club atmosphere, as it's called. Here's just a sample of some of the other 28 questions that Donald Trump was asked today that were a complete waste of a reporter's opportunity. Question. Have Putin and Zelensky agreed to a summit yet? And where and when would that be? Now that's a perfectly normal question for a perfectly normal president. It was a completely wasted question today which produced nothing other than Donald Trump saying there's a chance that a meeting like that could happen. Another question. Are you considering taking over the D.C. police? Is that an option? Do you want Congress to look at overturning the D.C. home Rule Act? Those are reporters falling for the distraction Donald Trump has tried to create just this week about the District of Columbia so that those reporters would not ask about his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. And the trick worked with those reporters. Another question. If you do reach a deal with Ukraine and Russia, would you drop the additional tariffs on India? And then Trump says, of course. Well, we'll determine that later. And you knew he was going to say that. You know, when Donald Trump is not going to answer a question and you still ask him these idiotic softball questions that he doesn't answer and you miss your opportunity to ask the only president in history who's had a friendship with a child rapist about that friendship. Here's another question. Have you started interviewing Fed candidates yet? It's illegal for the president to try to fire a Fed chairman and they still ask idiotic questions like that. The White House press corps will fail you. Many of them were chosen specifically by Donald Trump and allowed to be new members of the White House press corps specifically so that they would fail you and stand in that room functioning as cheerleaders for him. It's not just the Fox guy anymore. More doing that there's a bunch of other cheerleaders around him. And on a day when Donald Trump is continuing to desperately try to preserve the COVID up of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein by keeping the Epstein files hidden, that same White House press corps got revelations like this from Donald Trump. Colbert has no talent. I mean, I could take anybody here. I could go outside in the beautiful streets and pick up a couple of people that do just as well, or better they'd get higher ratings than he did. He's got no talent. Fallon has no talent. Kimmel has no talent. They're next. They're going to be going. I hear they're going to be going. I don't know. But I would imagine because they get Colbert has better ratings than Kimmel or Fallon, you know that that's what the White House press corps is harvesting from the most corrupt president in history in their opportunities to question him. But today, Kathryn Lucey of Bloomberg and Nancy Cortez of CBS did their jobs. They were the only ones. Everyone else failed to produce anything useful in any way. The question wasn't useful and the answer was, of course, ridiculously not useful. Everyone else played Donald Trump's distraction game. Today, the family of one of Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein's victims issued a statement about the Vice President's meeting. Virginia Giuffre was found by Ghislaine Maxwell in Donald Trump's spa in Mar? A Lago in Florida. She was working there in high school. As soon as Ghislaine Maxwell saw her, she began planning to drag that high school student into the hell that awaited her at Jeffrey Epstein's house. And she did just that. Virginia Giuffre spoke of the years and years of nightmares and distrust that she suffered after what Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein did to her. Virginia Giuffre never found her balance again and took her own life. Just four months ago today, her family issued this statement. We understand that Vice President J.D. vance will hold a strategy session this evening at his residence with administration officials. Missing from this group is of course, any survivor of the vicious crimes of convicted perjurer and sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Their voices must be heard. Above all, we reiterate that Ghislaine Maxwell should have remained in a maximum security prison and does not deserve the luxuries currently afforded her. The White House reporters who changed the subject for Donald Trump both times, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell came up in the questioning today could have asked a question about that statement by Virginia Giuffre's family. Why aren't the voices of the victims being heard at J.D. vance's meeting about the Epstein situation? That would have been a good follow up question to the two good questions that were asked today. But the rest of the White House reporters wasted their opportunities to question Donald Trump exactly as he expected them to do. Donald Trump said the magic word today about the Epstein situation. He said it's a hoax. That's the magic word that Donald Trump has been using for years, since it was exposed that Russia was helping the Trump campaign in 2016. And that is what Russia did. That is what Vladimir Putin did. They worked on one side of the presidential campaign to help Trump one candidate and hurt the other. And that is what the Mueller investigation found and proved. And Donald Trump has been calling that a hoax ever since. And that has always been proven true. That is really what happened. But he calls it a hoax. And Donald Trump calling it a hoax worked. It worked with most of his followers. Donald Trump believes the word hoax is like a drug that he can administer to his followers so that they will then swallow anything else that he says after that word hoax. And, and it hasn't worked yet with every Republican member of the House of Representatives when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Some of them still want to know what's in the Epstein files. And some of them will get repeated opportunities to make that clear in votes in the House of Representatives. Our first guest tonight has just introduced a resolution in the House of Representatives opposing a Trump pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell or a Trump reduction in sentence for Ghislaine Maxwell. The resolution, quote, affirms that Ghislaine Maxwell's conviction and sentencing were more than warranted by the facts. And any receipt of a pardon, commutation or other form of clemency by Ghislaine Maxwell would deny survivors the justice they deserve and formally opposes the granting of a pardon, commutation or other form of clemency to Elaine Maxwell. Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Congressman Rajakrishnamoorthy of Illinois. He's a member of the House Oversight Committee. Congressman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. What is your sense of how much support your resolution will get in September when you can get a vote on it?

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

I think all Democrats would support it. I think a majority of Republicans would even support it because the American people, apparently, when they were recently polled, said to the tune of 70% of Americans supporting this position to clemency of any kind. I, however, believe that the Republicans won't allow it to come up for a vote. But I think this kind of points to a broader problem with the pardon power. Glenn Maxwell desperately wants clemency. Donald Trump desperately wants to be extricated from the Epstein situation, as you pointed out. And so he's going to try to induce her to fabricate testimony of some kind to get him out of that situation.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So what will be suppose she does fabricate testimony that will not in any way negate the testimony against her for the actual personal, the sex crimes that she personally committed, which the jury found unanimously found she committed, which the judge found that she committed. Is Donald Trump going to somehow say, oh, she didn't actually do what the jury found she did?

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

No, she's not going to show any remorse. She's not going to be able to say that she never did any of these heinous sex crimes. I think that he's going to obviously make up some reason to potentially grant her clemency. But I think that at this point, we should be focused on those files, Lawrence, those files that are basically numbering in the tens of thousands of pages, terabytes of data. We should be focused on them instead of any kind of testimony that she might give or interview transcripts that they might disclose in the coming weeks. Although we want to see those, I think we want to be focused like a hawk on the underlying files because that's what really contains, in my opinion, the truth of what's occurred.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And that is what Donald Trump doesn't want anyone to see. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthy, thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight.

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. And coming up today, some Texas Democrats faced a bomb threat after leaving the state of Texas to prevent Donald Trump's congressional redistricting scheme. California Democratic Representative Zoe Lofgren will join us next with California's plan to, as Governor Newsom put it, fight fire with fire.

[Scott Aukerman]

This is Comedy Bang Bang, the podcast, the promo. And in 30 seconds, I'm going to tell you why you should check out the show. I, the host, Scott Aukerman, have a lighthearted conversation with famous celebrities like Jon Hamm, Alison Williams, Phoebe Bridgers, Jason Alexander, Natasha Leone, Bob Odenkirk, just to name a few things, go a little off the rails when different eccentric characters and oddballs drop by to be interviewed as well. Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians, as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang, the Podcast. Listen every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

There have been threats to Democratic members of the Texas State Legislature who left Tex to prevent the Legislature from adding five Republican seats to the United States House of representatives through redistricting, NBC 5 Chicago reports. Texas lawmakers who traveled to Illinois over a redistricting controversy in their state were among those evacuated from a suburban Chicago hotel following a threat at the property, authorities said. Police and Kane County Sheriff's Office bomb squad conducted a search of the center and said no device was found. An event with Senator Dick Durbin and Texas House Democrats that was slated to be held Wednesday afternoon was canceled. Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas has written a letter to FBI Director Kash Patel asking him to, quote, take any appropriate steps to aid in Texas state law enforcement efforts to locate or arrest potential lawbreakers who have fled the state. And right there in that statement is the answer there are no appropriate steps for the FBI to take because Texas state legislators have not broken any law and the FBI does not enforce state laws, which is what Senator Cornyn is referring to there. Donald Trump's redistricting campaign is now moving to Indiana, the IndyStar reports. Vice President J.D. vance is visiting Indianapolis on Thursday to speak with Governor Mike Braun and Republican legislative leaders about the possibility of redistricting the state's congressional districts amid the Trump administration's push to increase the GOP majority in the House. Braun didn't rule out calling a special session to redraw the Hoosier states congressional districts in an attempt to squeeze in another Republican seat ahead of the 2026 midterms. The largest state with the most members of the House of Representatives is ready to fight back. Here is California's governor Gavin Newsom describing his plan.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's cause and effect. It's triggered on the basis of what occurs or doesn't occur in Texas. I hope they do the right thing. And if they do the right thing, then there'll be no cost for us to have to move forward. But again, we're working with the legislature on a trigger that if they do move forward, California will not sit by idly and watch this democracy waste away. We'll fight fire with fire. We'll assert ourselves and we'll punch above our weight. And it will have profound impacts on the national outcome, not just here in the state of California.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senior member of the California Congressional delegation, Representative Zoe Lofgren, said, quote, if these GOP mid decade redistricting efforts do come to pass, our congressional delegation stands ready to work with our state legislative partners to respond. We will fight back. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Zoe Lofgren of California. She's a member of the House Judiciary Committee. What is the status of the California plan as of tonight?

[Zoe Lofgren]

Well, we have developed concepts for a map. I mean, it's one thing to say that you can pick up five Republican seats, another thing to actually see if you can do it. And now we know we could. We've been discussing this matter with legislative leaders in the state Senate and the state assembly that continued today. So there's a very tight time frame. We would not proceed without going to the voters. Right now we have a Citizens Redistricting Commission. They're completely beyond the reach of elected officials. The voters approve that. And so if there's any changes, we'll have to go to the voters and see what they want to do. But I'm getting a very strong sense from people talking to me, people are very unhappy with what Trump has done to California specifically and what he's trying to do kind of rig this next election. And a lot of people are saying we can't just meet that with a shrug.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You know, how could the voters of California vote on this before the next congressional election?

[Zoe Lofgren]

Well, the governor can call a special election. That would have to be done in the first week of September. It's a very quick time frame. But fortunately, the Citizens Commission had months and months and months of testimony that can be made available to the legislature to see that whatever maps we look at really conform to the testimony that they received. And there's another thing we are committed to. Whatever happens, we're going to abide by the Voting Rights act, which it looks like Texas is not. But that's a very important value that we have here in California, if a.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Special election is scheduled, how long is the campaign on the issue before the special election?

[Zoe Lofgren]

Well, it would be from the day the special is called until the election. So it would be quick. It would be the month of September, mostly September and October. And we will be out if we proceed. And it's looking like Texas is not going to pull back. And then, of course, they're going to Indiana, they're going to go to Ohio and other places. So they're, you know, I think somebody in the White House, I saw a quote in the New York Times that, that they're on the war path. Well, you know, they should put down their arms and we will, too. But we're not going to just sit here and be a punching bag.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Well, there's also the Indiana possibility. So is focusing exclusively on what Texas might do enough here? Might it be reasonable for California to just go ahead on the assumption that the Republicans will find a way to add some seats in some states?

[Zoe Lofgren]

States we have to proceed just because the legislature, I mean, the congressional delegation is really very unified on this. All of the Democrats in California are of one mind. And we're actually bonded with the legislature, the state senate and the Assembly. And of course, the governor has been very vocal as well. But, you know, there's a lot of steps. A map would have to be approved by the legislature to go to the voters. And so there's a lot of work to be done. We can't just wait and see. Now, if in the end Trump calls this off, you know, we can put triggers in this so it doesn't go into effect. But just waiting is not really an option.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Representative Zoe Lofkin, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Zoe Lofgren]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Coming up, Elon Musk got a $29 billion award from the Tesla board for destroying sales of Tesla in the United States and Europe. As Elon Musk continues to make Tesla buyers, in effect, money contributors to the Republican campaigns. That's next.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Most Americans have never contributed to a political campaign and never will. But thousands of Americans unwittingly did exactly that when they bought the Teslas that made Elon Musk the richest person in the world. Tesla buyers enabled Elon Musk to become the biggest political contributor to a presidential campaign in history, which means Tesla buyers helped elect Donald Trump. That is a horrible unintended consequence for most Tesla buyers, many of whom were motivated by the kind of environmental concerns championed only by Democratic presidents and Democratic candidates all over the country. Republicans all firmly oppose all of the environmental ambitions of those Tesla buying voters who unwittingly contributed to the biggest Republican campaign slush fund in history. Not surprisingly, Tesla sales have collapsed in the United States and in Europe since Elon Musk became, as Bill Gates put it, quote, the world's richest man, killing the world's poorest children. Elon Musk was able to destroy the United States Agency for International Development, which delivered famine relief around the world and life saving medicines around the world solely because Tesla buyers made Elon Musk rich enough to get Donald Trump's attention and convince Donald Trump to give him the power to embark on, quote, killing the world's poorest children, as Bill Gates put it. It you now see Teslas owned by people who oppose Elon Musk bearing stickers saying things like send Elon to Mars. I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy. Vintage Tesla Pre Madness Edition. Elon killed my resale value. F Elon love the car, hate Musk. Eco friendly, not elon friendly. On June 5, Elon Musk tweeted, without me, Trump would have lost the election, Dems would control the House, and Republicans would be 5149 in the Senate. That tweet presumably lost Elon Musk even more possible Tesla buyers in the United States. And a month later Elon Musk tweeted, when it comes to bankrupting our country with waste and graft, we live in a one party system, not a democracy. Today the American party is formed to give you back your freedom. That was Elon Musk pretending to create a new political party. If that was an attempt to win back anti Trump Tesla buyers, it hasn't worked yet. And the Financial Times is reporting that Elon Musk is actually continuing to contribute big money to Republicans and only Republicans. The Financial Times reports that Elon Musk continues to, quote, bankroll Republican candidates after his public fallout with US President Donald Trump donating millions of dollars to campaign groups gearing up for next year's midterm elections Half year records show the Tesla chief executive was the single largest donor to committees supporting Republicans in congressional races, even as his tenure in government came to an ignominious end and his businesses suffered severe blowbacks from his association with the Trump administration. Musk donated $5 million each to the two main super PACs backing House and Senate Republican candidates on June 27, according to documents filed by the U.S. federal Election Commission. Just days before, he floated the idea of building a rival party. And this week, the Tesla board of directors handed elon Musk another? 29 billion in reward money. I guess for destroying the company. I guess that's what you get when there's absolutely no performance standard for the company or behavioral standard for the CEO. Kill Tesla sales and the Tesla board will give you an additional $29 billion because meritocracy has absolutely nothing to do with the way the world works for billionaires. But they pretend that that's the way they want the world to work for everyone else. As to Elon Musk's fraudulent claim about creating a new political party, the Financial Times reports there has been no sign of Musk or his allies taking the necessary steps to establish a party, either at a local level or nationwide. Tensions between Trump and his former donor appear to have eased in recent days, with the president saying he wanted Musk's businesses to thrive. Coming up, we'll hear what Donald Trump had to say about Elon Musk today. That's next. Today, Donald Trump was asked this childish question about Elon Musk.

[Unknown]

A new Gallup poll says that Elon Musk is the most unpopular public figure.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

In the country right now. I'm wondering, do you miss having him.

[Unknown]

Around the White House or is that poll accurate?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know if the poll's accurate. I think he's a good person. I think he had a bad moment, really bad moment, but he's a good person. I believe that.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Joining us now is Joe Miller, Washington correspondent for the Financial Times. Joe, you've been reporting on what Elon Musk is really doing politically, Politically. And it seems like his money is still going Republican.

[J]

It is to the astonishment of many because as you outlined there, Lawrence Musk earlier last month went on a tweeting spree saying that he was going to start a new party to rival the Republican Party. And indeed, a couple of months before that, said he was done spending on politics, on political candidates altogether. He said he'd done enough when it came to political spending. So it was quite remarkable to see that he was the single largest donor to these super PACs supporting Republican congressional candidates in the upcoming midterms. And I think it goes, it shows, you know, the confusion around Musk's political instincts. You know, he goes, says one thing, tweets, one thing, posts about, you know, various different issues like debt reduction or, you know, has this anti woke crusade. And at the same time he's donating to these, you know, know, to these groups supporting Republicans who he seems to now oppose. And I think, you know, it's too early to tell whether Musk will actually go through and become the biggest donor to Republicans, you know, by this time next year. But I think one thing that's becoming very, very clear is that his political instincts are at best muddled.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And so as of now, if you're buying a Tesla, you are still somewhere in the contribution chain to Republican candidates, especially with this new that the Tesla board just decided to give to this guy who has obviously harmed Tesla sales.

[J]

As of the end of June. I suppose that's true, yes. In some way, your money is going to Elon Musk and Elon Musk's money is going to Republicans. But it has to be said that from the perspective of the board, of the Tesla board, and indeed for many large Tesla investors, Musk's involvement in politics has been nothing but a catastrophe for the company, for the stock, and all they want him to do is stay as far away from Washington as possible. He doesn't seem to be listening to them. I guess this pay packet is part of an incentive to try and lure him back to Tesla, lure him back to the business world, to get him off this sort of doom loop of tweeting and getting involved in every single culture war out there. But certainly true that here you have someone whose entire sort of of net worth is tied up in two companies, both of whom are kind of, you know, are begging him to stay away from politics. And at the same time, he doesn't seem to be able to pull back.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Joe Miller, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I need a coffee.

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