Lawrence: Defending tariffs, Donny '2 dolls' Trump says kids will just have fewer Christmas toys

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Lawrence: Defending Tariffs, Donny '2 Dolls' Trump Says Kids Will Just Have Fewer Christmas Toys"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
• Host: Lawrence O'Donnell, MSNBC
• Episode: Defending Tariffs, Donny '2 Dolls' Trump Says Kids Will Just Have Fewer Christmas Toys
• Release Date: May 1, 2025

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1. Introduction and Context

The episode launched with promotional segments for the MSNBC app and brief interactions between Lawrence O'Donnell, Rachel Maddow, and Chris Hayes. The primary focus quickly shifted to the economic and political ramifications of President Donald Trump's tariff policies, especially their impact on American businesses and consumers during the holiday season.

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2. Trump's Tariffs and Their Economic Impact

Chris Hayes introduces the central theme by humorously suggesting a hypothetical character name for Donald Trump if he were part of HBO's The Sopranos, proposing "Donny Two Dolls." This moniker underscores Trump's narrative that tariffs will result in fewer toys for children, particularly dolls, during Christmas.

• Quote:
  Chris Hayes (04:20): “Donnie Two Dolls thinks this country's kids are wildly oversupplied with dolls.”

Economic Consequences:

• Supply Chain Disruptions: The tariffs have significantly affected the supply chain, especially since nearly 80% of toys and 90% of Christmas goods in the U.S. are manufactured in China.
• Business Strain: Companies are experiencing product shortages and increased prices, leading many to consult bankruptcy lawyers.
• Consumer Impact: Families face higher prices and reduced availability of toys, directly impacting the holiday season.

Expert Insight:

• Rick Waldenberg, a business owner, elaborates on the detrimental effects of the tariffs on his company and the broader market.

  Waldenberg (12:31): “He said in the campaign there's not going to be as many toys under the Christmas tree... and why is he saying that now?”

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3. Business Leaders’ Response and Concerns

The episode highlights a poll indicating significant concern among business leaders regarding the current political and legal climate:

• 84% of Business Leaders: Very or somewhat concerned about the impact on their businesses.
• 81% of Republican Business Leaders: Expressed similar concerns.

Chris Hayes emphasizes the disconnect between Trump's policies and the reliance on international manufacturing, noting the irony in Trump's own products, like golf carts and neckties, being sourced globally.

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4. Political Reactions and Senator Elizabeth Warren’s Critique

Senator Elizabeth Warren is a key guest who vehemently criticizes Trump's tariff policies:

• Economic Downturn: Warren asserts that Trump's decisions have precipitated a recession, with rising consumer debt and increased defaults on credit cards and car loans.

  Warren (20:44): “This is about higher prices for groceries, higher prices for toys for the kids... American families, millions of them, are already in much more economically precarious shape than they were a year ago.”

• Legislative Action: The Senate voted 49 to 49 on a resolution to stop Trump's tariffs, signaling deep divisions even within the Republican party.

  Jonathan Alter (18:45): “Republicans who voted for the resolution include Senator Rand Paul, Susan Collins, and Lisa Murkowski.”

Warren also critiques the potential for corruption stemming from the unilateral implementation of tariffs, citing Trump's interactions with business leaders like Jeff Bezos and Tim Cook.

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5. Comparison to Franklin D. Roosevelt’s First Hundred Days

The podcast draws a stark contrast between Trump's first hundred days and those of Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) in 1933:

• Roosevelt’s Approach: Emphasized construction, compassion, and legislative action to pull the U.S. out of the Great Depression and mobilize for World War II.

  Jonathan Alter (39:43): “Roosevelt believed in construction. Trump believes in destruction.”

• Trump’s Approach: Characterized by executive orders perceived as chaotic and potentially temporary, lacking the lasting legislative achievements of FDR.

  Jonathan Alter: “Most of all, you have Roosevelt putting people back to work... This has been now temporarily stymied by Trump.”

Alter underscores that while FDR’s actions led to enduring institutions like the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) and Social Security, Trump’s measures may not have the same lasting impact.

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6. Specific Cases Highlighting Controversies

Andrew Weissmann, former FBI general counsel, discusses Trump's involvement in legal matters:

• MS13 Tattoo Incident: Trump repeatedly refers to a photograph of a prisoner with MS13 tattoos, which Weissmann claims were photoshopped.

  Chris Hayes (30:04): “Donald Trump, after that, kept insisting that he is stupid enough to believe that the obviously photoshopped Ms. 13 tattoos are real tattoos.”

• Contempt of Court: Warren connects Trump’s statements to potential contempt of court, highlighting a pattern of disregarding judicial decisions.

  Elizabeth Warren (33:10): “This is a constant pattern that we are seeing... not obeying them.”

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7. Impact on Federal Workers and Government Operations

The episode also touches on the broader impact of Trump's policies on federal workers and government operations:

• Firing of Federal Workers: Discussions revolve around the indiscriminate firing of federal employees across various departments, from the CDC to NASA.

  Jacob Soveroff (43:13): “This is not just about them and their jobs, but it's about all of us too.”

• Controlled Burns and Environmental Policies: The conversation includes the controversial methods used by agencies like NASA in firefighting, juxtaposed with the firing of federal workers involved in these operations.

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8. Closing Remarks and Future Discussions

The episode concludes with a reflection on the unprecedented nature of Trump's first hundred days, drawing lessons from history and setting the stage for future comparisons and analyses.

• Jonathan Alter: Encourages listeners to read his book, The Defining Moment, which juxtaposes Trump’s tenure with FDR’s historic first hundred days.

  Chris Hayes (42:15): “It's exactly what people should be reading now.”

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Chris Hayes (04:20): “Donnie Two Dolls thinks this country's kids are wildly oversupplied with dolls.”
• Rick Waldenberg (12:31): “He said in the campaign there's not going to be as many toys under the Christmas tree... and why is he saying that now?”
• Elizabeth Warren (20:44): “This is about higher prices for groceries, higher prices for toys for the kids... American families, millions of them, are already in much more economically precarious shape than they were a year ago.”
• Jonathan Alter (39:43): “Roosevelt believed in construction. Trump believes in destruction.”

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Conclusion

In this episode of "The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell," the discussion centers on the adverse effects of President Donald Trump's tariff policies on the American economy, businesses, and consumers. Through expert interviews and historical comparisons, the podcast critiques the short-termism and potential corruption arising from unilateral tariff impositions, while contrasting them with the enduring legislative achievements of Franklin D. Roosevelt. The episode calls for legislative action to mitigate the economic downturn and urges listeners to critically evaluate the long-term implications of Trump's approach to governance.

Transcript

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Rachel Maddow]

All the stories that we're covering are live and happening as.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Rachel Maddow]

What's happening right now is a hostile takeover of the US Government.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] app now it's.

[Rachel Maddow]

Time for the Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.

[Chris Hayes]

Good evening, Rachel, and thank you for taking us through these hundred days. We will see you Monday and Rachel tomorrow night. You know, you've been doing this five nights a week nonstop for the 100 days tomorrow night. I think it's possible you'll have some thoughts of the day on the news of the day. And if you want to text those to me before or during this TV show, I will say those words on the air. Any thoughts you might have about tomorrow's news, welcome.

[Rachel Maddow]

I promise you, I can promise you in a promise with a lock on it and an unbreakable chain around that promise that there is no chance that I will do that. LAWRENCE yeah, yeah, that's, that's about what.

[Chris Hayes]

I was, that's about what I was figuring. You know, Rachel, I went, I went by one of my old haunts in town today, the Paramount lot, which as Hollywood lots go, is one of the great, one of the classics to visit a writer's room there, friends of mine working in the writer's room. And when I'm in la, I like to hang out in those places which when you are actually working in them, that can feel very unpleasant. But when you miss it as much as I do, it's just a fun place to hang out. And it got me thinking in that mode today when I came across some of the Trump news. And that made me wonder, today's one of those days, made me wonder what would Donald Trump's character name be if he were a character in the Sopranos. And so I got permission, I got permission from the great David Chase, who created the Sopranos, to Offer my guests what I would pitch in the Sopranos writers room. In fact, just to be sure, I texted David, I don't know, an hour and a half ago. And I said on my show tonight, I'm going to take the liberty of suggesting what Trump's character name would be if he were a Soprano's character. You'll have a better idea and I'm sure David will have a better idea. He immediately texts me back and says, nah, go for it. I can't wait. So David Chase has authorized me to take my wild guess about what Donald Trump's Sopranos character's name would be if he were a character in the Sopranos.

[Rachel Maddow]

Okay. Every single word and premise of that is fricking fantastic. I gotta tell you though, I sort of feel like Donald Trump already is a character in the Sopranos and obviously he's Livia. He's Livia. He's the whiny mom. Oh, yes, right.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yes.

[Chris Hayes]

Oh, yes.

[Rachel Maddow]

Who eventually gets. I mean, I've always thought of him as Livia Soprano with too long a tie on. But, you know, you inventing a new character for him, I will stick around to see that.

[Chris Hayes]

You are, you're way ahead of me on this and I think you're exactly right. I would join, you know, I would quickly join Team Rachel in the writers room. As soon as you made that pitch, I'd be dropping my idea and go, yeah, that's it, that's it. Let's go with that.

[Rachel Maddow]

Once you hear it, he kind of looks like her too. Like from the side, there's like a livial thing going on. I know.

[Chris Hayes]

It's all there.

[Rachel Maddow]

Thank you, Lawrence.

[Chris Hayes]

Absolutely. Thank you, Rachel. See you Monday.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Thank you.

[Chris Hayes]

See you Monday.

[Rachel Maddow]

Yeah, see you Monday. See you Monday.

[Chris Hayes]

Well, we now have a new possibility for the now years old guessing game of what Donald Trump's name would be if he were a character on HBO's Emmy winning Gangster series the Sopranos. If I were in the Sopranos writing room today, my new pitch for the Donald Trump character name would be Donny Two Dolls. And I'm sure the Emmy winning creator of the Sopranos, David Chase, would have a better idea. I'm sure he would. But for me today, he's Donny Two Dolls. And here's why. As we reported on this program last night, companies in the United States who do most of their business during the Christmas season, including companies that sell toys, are facing such a bleak Christmas because of the massive Trump tariffs that some of those companies are already consulting bankruptcy lawyers today that Story about the Trump Scrooge effect on Christmas spread to the point where Donald Trump knew he had to respond to it. The New York Times reported factories in China produce nearly 80% of all toys and 90% of Christmas goods sold in America. Alarm in the industry is palpable with the companies predicting product shortages and higher prices. Some business owners, citing how crucial holiday sales are to their bottom lines, are consulting bankruptcy lawyers. And now, with 238 shopping days until Christmas, Donald Trump today decided that we just have way too many dolls under those Christmas trees in America and it is time to cut back.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Much of it we don't need. You know, somebody said, oh, the shelves are going to be open. Well, maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dol. And maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally.

[Chris Hayes]

So donnie2dolls thinks this country's kids are wildly oversupplied with dolls. During World War II, when President Franklin Delano Roosevelt was leading the world in the war against Nazism, while President Roosevelt was leading this country out of the Great Depression, at the same time, there were restrictions on what you could buy in this country. There were government imposed price controls and government controlled purchasing limits on things like tires and gasoline. But in the worst of World War II, at the absolute height of our mobilization effort, the President of the United States never said how many dolls could be under a Christmas tree. Only Donnie 2 dolls could think like that. Why didn't he mention that in the campaign? Why didn't Donald Trump say in the campaign there's not going to be as many toys under the Christmas tree when I'm president, especially dolls? And why didn't he say Christmas was going to be more expensive? Why did he never say that his tariffs were going to mean that on Christmas you were going to have to pay, as he put it, a couple of bucks more for those two dolls? And why is he saying that now? He's saying it now because the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and the stock market and the Democratic members of Congress and the Senate, like our first guest tonight, Senator Elizabeth Warren, are hammering Donald Trump with the truth about his tariffs every single day. Today, Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren posted on social media, quote, TRUMP on day one, your costs will be lower immediately. TRUMP on day 100, your kids will now have fewer toys. And also you're going to pay higher prices. For those of you out there who have ever owned a Barbie, I know most of you owned more than one if your parents could afford it, I know many of you owned at least a dozen. But Donnie Tudall says those days are over. No more. In America, two is enough. And there appears to be, from the historical record, some consistency about Donald Trump's ice cold feelings about dolls.

[Rachel Maddow]

I remember one of my earlier Christmas gifts was a Barbie, and I was devastated because my brothers had gotten Legos and Erector sets. So to me, this is traumatic.

[Chris Hayes]

Pretty easy life, if that's what you call traumatic. There are children starving to death in Africa tonight because of her father. Her father stopped the life saving food deliveries that the United States was making to save lives in the famine in South Sudan. That's what USAID was doing there, saving lives with food. The most elementary way you can save a baby's life by feeding a starving baby. And her father stopped that. In that TV appearance, Ivanka Trump told Conan O'Brien that she grabbed her little brother's Legos and built a model of Trump Tower with them that her father was very proud of. And then in a book she wrote a couple years later, Ivanka Trump said that her brothers confronted her about that Lego story, claiming that it just wasn't true. And so it seems tension about what's under the Christmas tree and what happens with it can last an awful long time in that family. And it seems Donald Trump might be the only rich guy in America who bought his daughter exactly one Barbie. I'm sure she was in her Barbie phase for more than just one Christmas. So let's just assume that Donnie Two Dolls ended up getting her at least two Barbies during that period. What you see in Donald Trump's deranged riffing today about two dolls is that all of the chaos landing on us from the Trump tariffs was never anticipated by Donald Trump because he does understand how tariffs work. I thought Donald Trump was lying every day of the presidential campaign when he said China would pay his tariffs. I thought Donald Trump was at least smart enough to know the tariffs imposed by the United States are paid only in the United States. When those goods from foreign countries arrive in the United States, the tariff is paid right on the dock by the companies like Best Buy or General Motors that import those products. The Wall Street Journal wisely in its editorials, calls tariffs border taxes, because that's exactly what they are. They are sales taxes imposed on Americans at the border, at the port of entry into this country where those goods arrive, the biggest port of entry for products from China. Support of Los Angeles shipping is dropping dramatically in the Port of Los Angeles. And so longshoremen and truck drivers who are the very first American workers to touc goods as they arrive in the United States, then move through. The United States are facing the possibility of massive job losses thanks to Donald Trump's tariffs. And they might only be able to afford two dolls under the Christmas tree this year thanks to Donald Trump. There's no way to survive this. That's what Rick Waldenberg said today on MSNBC in an interview with Chris Jensing, where he explained what Donald Trump's tariffs are doing to his company and the 500 people who now have jobs in that country, in that company, but whose jobs are now threatened by Donald Trump.

[Rick Waldenberg]

Our company makes educational products. We sell into schools and we sell into homes. And there's a lot of people who depend on what we do. So obviously frustrating that he basically says what happens to us and the 500 people that work in our company is no concern of his. I can tell you that the stock market is going down, in my opinion, because only one thing has changed, and that's these tariffs. The economy was booming when he came in and he hit us with tariffs. We are responding to the incentives that he's given us. His first tariff at 10% was a big problem for us, and we immediately began canceling events and cutting our spending. It's now gone up into the stratosphere. It's two and a half times what he said in the campaign would be the highest tariff he would put out. There's no way to survive this. We're in the most competitive market in the world. And I'd like to say one other thing. He said we had to take our medicine. We're not taking medicine here. We're taking poison. This is going to kill these businesses. I'm one of 300,000 businesses in many industries that are similarly situated and similarly affected. We're not a rounding error. You can talk to any of our.

[Chris Hayes]

Employees and ask them, we're not taking medicine here. We're taking poison. This is going to kill businesses. Voters know now that that is true. This is poison that's going to kill businesses, kill jobs. And so tonight, Donald Trump has lost the support of the voters who made him president, not the hardcore 25 or 30% who think Donald Trump is some sort of religious figure who they are devoted to. There's probably nothing that Donald Trump could ever do to lose them, no matter what's under their Christmas tree. But weeks ago, Donald Trump lost that 3 or 4% of voters who made him president in the final days of voting and making their decision to vote. And now he is the most unpopular president on the hundredth day of his presidency since the invention of polling, and possibly the most concentrated Negative opinions and feelings about Donald Trump are held by business leaders, including Republican business leaders. A new poll shows that 84% of business leaders say they are very or somewhat concerned about the impact of the current political and legal climate on their businesses. In that poll, 81% of Republican business leaders said they are very or somewhat concerned about the impact of the current political and legal climate on their businesses. When Donald Trump decided to get into the business of selling his strangely enormous neckties in bright, garish colors, he had those neckties made in China and the Trump golf carts where Donald Trump appears to spend as much time as he does sitting in the Oval Office. Those golf carts are some of the most international products in the world, CNBC reports. While both Clubcar and Easygo assembled their golf carts in the United States, they source their components from China, Taiwan, India, Malaysia, Turkey and Europe, among other countries. No matter how long Donald Trump clings to his tariff madness that is separating him from voters and making congressional Republicans vulnerable in the next election, and no matter how long Donald Trump plays golf, he will never in his lifetime ride in a golf cart made with all American parts. That will not happen in Donald Trump's lifetime. The Wall Street Journal editorial board was very disappointed that Jeff Bezos assured Donald Trump in a panicked phone call made by Donald Trump that Amazon will never reveal to customers how much the Trump tariffs are adding to the prices they will pay and already are paying on Amazon. The Wall Street Journal editorial board said, quote, the public could have used Amazon's price transparency tariffs are taxes, and it's helpful to know how policy choices affect final Some shoppers might say the additional cost is worth it to support Mr. Trump's policy, but there's no denying that they're paying and everyone is better off knowing how much. Like taxes, tariffs often add a precise dollar figure to a sticker price. Voters who pay little attention to the macro economy will notice a direct markup on items they buy. Senator Elizabeth Warren has some questions for Jeff Bezos and what she called his subservience to Donald Trump. After Donald Trump made that phone call to Jeff Bezos to complain about just the possibility of Amazon actually revealing on its website what the Trump tariffs are actually doing to prices, Senator Warren wrote to Jeff Bezos saying yesterday's activity appears to be another example of big Tech working together with President Trump to seek special favors or support his policies in what can appear to be a quid Pro quo my concerns about the potential for tariff related corruption to benefit big tech firms who provided millions in donations to the Trump inaugural committee and other insiders. As the President rolls out reverses and modifies his policies have become more acute with each passing day. And yesterday's report indicated that you have now personally become involved in key decisions about what consumers can learn about the true cost of tariffs. Tonight, The Senate voted 49 to 49 on a resolution to stop Donald Trump's tariffs that he imposed after declaring a national emergency. Two senators who missed the vote would have voted in favor of the resolution. The Republicans who voted for the resolution include Senator Rand Paul, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. Before the vote in the Senate tonight, Senator Elizabeth Warren said this.

[Jonathan Alter]

President Trump took a strong American economy and broke it in less than 100 days. Right now, Republican senators are at a crossroads. Will they vote to stop Trump's chaotic tariffs and save our economy or will they continue bending the knee to Donald Trump? Americans are worried they won't be able to survive a cratering economy. And just today, Americans woke up to the news that Donald Trump single handedly shrunk our economy in three months and raised the cost of their groceries. The warning lights are all flashing red. We've seen this before, but this time our economy is teetering on the edge. Not because of a mortgage meltdown or a one in a century virus, but because of one man alone, the President of the United States. If Republicans care about the American people, they will vote yes on our resolution today and turn off the fake emergency that Donald Trump is using to impose his on again, off again red light, green light, tariffs. The tariffs that are pushing our economy off a cliff.

[Chris Hayes]

Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. She is the ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee and a member of the Senate Finance Committee. Senator Warren, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I want to begin on that point you made about one person has caused that. And if you look back throughout the economic history of this country, we've had plenty of downturns, we've had depressions, we've had recessions. Never caused by an individual, by one person making decisions that caused a slide like we are seeing now, that is according to many projections, on its way to recession and real job losses.

[Jonathan Alter]

Yeah, you know, you've got it exactly right. And the contrast here is breathtaking. So for over a year, Donald Trump ran on he would lower costs on day one. How many times he said on day one? Those were his words. He gets elected in his first interview, he said that was one of the main reasons he won. And now he's been there 100 days. He has taken this strong and growing economy, and he has broken it. And he has already driven up prices for consumers. We also saw the data come out today that just the grocery basket has become more expensive in the hundred days that Donald Trump has been president of the United States. And then when you weave in with that, this isn't just like a little blip or one kind of problem we're dealing with. It is the one, two punch of the chaos that's been created by these tariffs and the opportunity for corruption. For Donald Trump to sell favors by giving exceptions for some people, who knows, raising tariffs for others. In other words, chaos and corruption together, that's what truly breaks the back of an economy.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, the corruption point that you raise with Jeff Bezos is so important. And tariffs, it seems to me, especially the way they're being executed now, literally by one person, have introduced a corruption opportunity that is the greatest corruption opportunity in the history of this country. I mean, you're on the Banking Committee and the Senate Finance Committee, and you know that the most expensive lobbyists in the world surround those committees all day, you know, trying to get their provisions into banking legislation, tax legislation, and so forth. It's so much easier now. You go to one place and you talk to one person, and you talk to him on the phone, maybe when your business is thinking about doing something that might bother him. And by, like, by actually describing what tariffs are doing to prices, what do you get back when you do a favor for Donald Trump like that?

[Jonathan Alter]

You know, maybe this is what Elon Musk means by efficiency. One stop shopping for corruption. And remember here that this conversation today that took place with Jeff Bezos is in the show shadow of a conversation that took place just a couple of weeks ago with Tim Cook, another billionaire who donated a million dollars to Donald Trump's inauguration. Remember how Donald Trump said, I'm putting these tariffs in place and there will be no exceptions? And how do I know Donald Trump really meant that? Because he put it all in caps in the tweet. No exceptions. You remember that? And then Tim Cook gives Donald Trump a call, and Donald Trump comes right out and says, I talked to Tim Cook and we're going to have a special deal for his company. Apple will get an exception to all of those China tariffs. So the opportunity here, through the tariffs for dealing back and forth in corruption is truly staggering. Understand, again, one person is in charge. This is like the King who just waves his magic scepter and all of a sudden that one over there has a lot more money and is doing great and all those people over there are doing worse. And it's all a question of who helped the King in whatever way the king wanted to be helped most. And at the end of the day, you and I can sit here and point this out, but understand, it is truly American families that will pay the price for this, the recession that the economists are talking about. Yeah, it's a lot of numbers and GDP shrunk today, but families live this one day at a time. This is about higher prices for groceries, higher prices for toys for the kids. It's also about the risk that you're going to lose your job. It's about not being able to make it to the end of the month. And American families, millions of them, are already in much more economically precarious shape than they were a year ago. At this time, consumer debt is up. It's at higher levels, $4 trillion higher than it was in 2019. Consumer defaults on credit cards are at the levels we saw in 2008 in the Midd of the crash. Same kind of thing for car loan defaults. And families are telling us themselves that they are worried. They are worried about prices going up, they're worried about losing their jobs. They're worried about holding it all together financially. That is what 100 days of Donald Trump has brought to the living rooms of every American family.

[Chris Hayes]

Senator Elizabeth Warren, an honor to have you here with us on the 100th day. Thank you very much for joining us.

[Jonathan Alter]

Thank you.

[Chris Hayes]

Coming up tonight, we once again have to ask the question, did Donald Trump say that because he is stupid or because he is lying? We will play the video. You can decide. That's next.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Rachel Maddow]

All the stories that we're covering are live and happening as we speak.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Rachel Maddow]

What's happening right now is a hostile takeover of the US Government.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] app Citizens, since we each upgraded to Xfinity in our homes, the WI fi has been booming. It's fair to say our town has officially become a boom town.

[Rachel Maddow]

Mayor, will I be able to drop into multiplayer gaming battles with low lag?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The lag won't be an issue, but your questionable skills may be.

[Jonathan Alter]

And what if I have Hundreds of.

[Rachel Maddow]

Devices on the WI Fi, purely hypothetical.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Seems like a lot, but sure, hundreds of devices all booming together with the Xfinity Gateway. Yes, friends and neighbors with Xfinity, the WI Fi is booming.

[Jonathan Alter]

Restrictions apply.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus On the next episode.

[Jonathan Alter]

You think I'm gonna get on this.

[Chris Hayes]

TV show and deny what I believe?

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNB.

[Chris Hayes]

There are many ways to measure how stupid Donald Trump is and how much neurological decline he might be experiencing. And one is to look at this photograph of the left hand of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who according to Donald Trump is being kept in a prison in El Salvador by mistake because Donald Trump wants to keep him here. That is the opposite of what Trumplers have told a federal judge in the case. Anyone who isn't stupid looking at that photograph can immediately tell that the perfectly formed MS.1 and 3 are photoshopped in the crudest possible way with no attempt to make them look like they are even attached to that hand or are real tattoos. There are real tattoos on those fingers below those perfectly formed letters. You can see in the photograph. There's nothing gain related in the actual tattoos that are on his fingers. And when Mr. Abrego Garcia was photographed last week in El Salvador with Senator Chris van Hollen, that Ms. 13 thing that only Donald Trump believes is real was not there, not there last night. Donald Trump, of course, without being smart enough to realize it, became a new witness in the case when he said repeatedly I could, after interviewer Terry Moran said, you could get him back. It's about the rule of law.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

The order from the Supreme Court stands, sir.

[Andrew Weissmann]

He came into our country illegally. You could get him back.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

There's a phone on this desk.

[Andrew Weissmann]

I could.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You could, could pick it up and.

[Chris Hayes]

Had all the power of the presidency. You could call up the President of El Salvador and say, send him back right now.

[Andrew Weissmann]

And if he were the gentleman that you say he is, I would do that.

[Chris Hayes]

But the court has ordered you to facilitate that.

[Andrew Weissmann]

I'm not the one making this decision. We have lawyers don't want to do this.

[Chris Hayes]

But the buck stops. Eyes off.

[Andrew Weissmann]

No, no, no, no. I follow the law. You want me to follow the law. If I were the president that just wanted to do anything, I'd probably keep them right where he says what the law is.

[Chris Hayes]

I could, I could. Those words will be presented to the judge in this case. Donald Trump, after that, kept insisting that he is stupid enough to believe that the obviously photoshopped Ms. 13 tattoos are real tattoos. But because Donald Trump is such a committed liar, this is one of those cases where it's hard to tell is Donald Trump just lying or is this just stupidity by law?

[Andrew Weissmann]

And you'll pick out one man, but even the man that you picked out, he's got a, he said he wasn't a member of a gang. And then they looked and on his knuckles he had MS.13.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

There's a dispute.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. He had MS.13 on his knuckles.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

He had some tattoos that are interpreted that way.

[Chris Hayes]

But let's move on.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Wait a minute. Okay, Terry, Terry, Terry.

[Chris Hayes]

He did not have the letter MS.13.

[Andrew Weissmann]

It says MS.13.

[Chris Hayes]

That was photoshopped.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So let me just.

[Andrew Weissmann]

That was Photoshopped, Terry.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, that was Photoshopped. Joining us now is Andrew Weisman, former FBI general counsel and former chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of New York. He's also an MSNBC legal analyst. So, Andrew, I'm very interested in what Donald Trump said in that interview that might find its way into court.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Sure. So first, whether your, your conundrum or whether this is something that he's stupid or lying is one where either one is not good when you're talking about the President of the United States. And you know, we may not know the answer, but we do know that this is, we're not saying either one of these is an attribute that you want in the President of the United States with respect to the statements that are making their way into court. And my understanding is that they may have actually already made their way to Judge Sinis, who is, has denied a request for the government to delay discovery yet again and is going to move forward. Is his statement that he actually can cause the release of Abrego Garcia, a man who is there, by the way, wrongly, according to the court and according to the Department of Justice own lawyers, he is there wrongly in jail as we speak tonight. And the president is saying I could bring him back, but I'm not is the kind of thing that goes directly to the issue before the judge, which is contempt of court. This is not the only judge who has this issue. It is happening over and over again in front of judges who are democratically appointed and Republican appointed judges, even judges appointed by Donald Trump. This is a constant pattern that we are seeing on this hundredth day of Donald Trump is this taking on the courts and not obeying them. And this statement by Donald Trump is going to be exhibit A to that issue.

[Chris Hayes]

Andrew Weissman, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You're welcome.

[Chris Hayes]

And coming up, no one really counted a President's first hundred days until 1933 when the new President, Franklin Delano Roosevelt accomplished more in his first hundred days than any previous President. That record has never been matched since then. President Roosevelt didn't do it by executive order. He did it the old fashioned democracy way by pushing legislation through Congress and signing it into law. Law that is still protecting us all tonight. Our next guest, Jonathan Alter wrote a beautiful book about Franklin Roosevelt's first hundred days and he will join us next to compare and contrast the hundred days that we have just lived through with those first glorious hundred days of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

[Jonathan Alter]

My name is Lily and I've had.

[Chris Hayes]

Hidradenitis suprativa HS for years. I finally found some relief since taking Cosentyx. Relief means I can show up more.

[H]

Cosenty Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with mild, moderate to severe hidradenitis suppurativa. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections, some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worse, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentyx or cosentyx.com Ask.

[Chris Hayes]

Your dermatologist about Cosentyx.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Rachel Maddow]

All the stories that we're covering are lives and happening as we speak.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Rachel Maddow]

What's happening right now is a hostile takeover of the US Government.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] app.

[Chris Hayes]

Before term limits were imposed on the presidency by constitutional amendment, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was our longest serving president. Elected four times in a row, he died in the 13th year of his presidency, nearly 12 weeks after his fourth inauguration, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the most innovative practitioner of government in American history, led the country out of the Great depression of the 1930s and led this country and our allies to victory in World War II as the most successful war president in American history. The most famous thing Franklin Delano Roosevelt ever said, the line that has lived after him is the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. He did not say that at the beginning of World War II. He said that on the very first day of his presidency in his first inaugural address and 100 days later, Franklin Delano Roosevelt had accomplished more in the American presidency than any previous president. He changed our relationship to government. And he did not do that through executive order. He did that through legislation that he suggested to Congress or in some cases, wrote for Congress, and by scrupulously following constitutional process. In those remarkable first hundred days that have since then become a benchmark for all presidents, Franklin Roosevelt pulled the country through its darkest period since the Civil War. It is impossible to describe in the brief time we have on this program just how much fear there was in America the day before Franklin Delano Roosevelt became President of the United States. Our next guest, Jonathan Alter, has done the best job of describing that fear that I know of in his classic book, the defining FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope. Before President Roosevelt took the oath of office, the American banking system was on the verge of collapse. And everyone knew that. Everyone feared that they could wake up tomorrow and discover any money they had in banking accounts was just gone. People were afraid to deposit money into banks and were hiding it under their mattresses. To save the banking system. One of the things President Roosevelt had to do was to convince people to deposit their savings in banks and to convince people that their savings would be safe in those banks. And your bank accounts are insured tonight by the federal government thanks entirely to Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who decided that the government could and should eliminate that fear. The fear that you could lose all of your money in your bank account by creating the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. And that was just one one of the many things President Roosevelt did in those first hundred days. In the face of the fear that America was feeling when President Roosevelt was inaugurated, there was widespread belief that the country needed a dictator to get out of the economic hole that it was in. And even some Republicans were sympathetic to the idea of allowing the Democratic president to have dictatorial powers. In that darkest hour, President Roosevelt heard those urgings toward dictatorship and did exactly the opposite. Working with Congress and the constitutional process of legislation and winning not just Democratic votes in Congress, but also many votes in the opposing Republican party on many of his country saving ideas. In Jonathan Alter's Washington Monthly column comparing Donald Trump's first hundred days to President Roosevelt's first hundred days, Jonathan Alter writes, in his first hundred days, Trump hijacked Roosevelt's famous line and Essentially said, the only thing we have to use is fear itself. Joining us now is Jonathan Alter, author of the Defining Moment. He's also an MSNBC political analyst. Jonathan, it's the 100 day point. You have the microphone. I want you to just tell us whatever you think we should know at this point.

[I]

Well, I think the big thing is that Trump is Roosevelt in reverse. Roosevelt believed in construction. Trump believes in destruction. He's vandalizing the government. Roosevelt believed in compassion. Trump believes in contempt for other people. But even though both moved very quickly and urged action and then actually carried out a lot of action, the action that Roosevelt undertook is lasting, whereas Trump's action is very likely not lasting. And so all the fear that we're feeling of about this assault on the constitutional order, the collateral damage, which is horrible in the short term, the lives that are being destroyed all over the world, the children who are dying in Africa, the veterans who already are not getting their benefits, we could go on and on. Your program has done a great job in assessing all this damage. But the thing to understand is that executive orders do not have the force of law, and we will see many of them eventually because the wheels of justice grind slowly reversed and some of this damage repaired, some of it will be permanent. And of course, the next president can reverse all of these executive orders if he or she so chooses. Whereas, by contrast, Roosevelt, you have not just deposit insurance, you have the first aid to farmers, you have a restructuring of the banking system, Social Security and other achievements were in the couple years down the road. But most of all, you have Roosevelt putting people back to work. The Civilian Conservation Corps, this was the greatest, fastest mobilization in American history. 250 young people put back to work. Now, the descendant of that, of that agency, the Civilian conservation corps, is AmeriCorps, which already a million people have been through in the last 20 years. This has been now temporarily stymied by Trump. And we'll see whether this and other legacies of the New Deal can be reclaimed.

[Chris Hayes]

Jonathan Alter, it's just so important for me to have you join us on these hundred days. And to viewers, after going through these hundred days, you owe yourselves the treat of reading Jonathan's book, the defining FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope. It is a beautiful book, an inspiring book, and it's not a long book. It's 100 days in our history, and it's exactly what people should be reading now. Jonathan, thank you very much.

[I]

Thanks, Lawrence.

[Chris Hayes]

And coming up, sounds like someone's trying to get rid of Someone.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Well, we all want to thank you for your help too. You really have sacrificed a lot, been treated very unfairly.

[Chris Hayes]

Well, they do like to burn my cars, which is not great, you know. The federal workers Donald Trump and Elon Musk have fired or are trying to fire, have been talking to Jacob Soveroff who will join us next.

[Jonathan Alter]

They were fighting to try and get NIOSH back to protect workers and hopefully somebody will listen and realize the benefit that NIOSH has. I think it's been written a number of times that it's $2 per worker and we saved $250 billion in disability claims, death, basically healthy workers.

[J]

When you talk about efficiency, that sure sounds efficient to me.

[Jonathan Alter]

Very efficient. We were a bargain.

[Chris Hayes]

We really were. Jacob Suvarov has been talking to federal workers who've been fired by Elon Musk and Donald Trump and federal workers who are still on the job. This is what that control burn looks like from the sky while it was in part lit by hand in more than 700 acres because of ignition efforts launched from this helicopter.

[J]

This machine shoots out ping pong sized balls into the forest that combust when they hit the floor.

[Chris Hayes]

Do you get the sense operationally the type of data NASA's collecting could change the way they fight fires on the ground? Oh, absolutely, yes. Joining us now is NBC News political national correspondent Jacob Soborough. He will be featured in a town hall with fired federal workers tomorrow night at 9pm here on MSNBC. Jacob, what more are we going to learn tomorrow? And I hope there's more film like that that we're going to see.

[J]

I always wanted to be an action star, Lawrence. And the Federal Workers of America have given me the opportunity to do that. You're going to hear from federal workers from all walks of life, all across the government, from all parts of the country that touch each and every one of us in different ways. And I think if there's a theme to the first hundred days of the Trump administration, it is what they would tell you is an indiscriminate firing of these workers where the workers that are being fired believe that they don't think that the Trump admin knows who they are, where they are, even what they do, from the CDC to Housing and Urban Development to the Forest Service to even potentially folks from NASA who took me on that helicopter over that controlled burn in Georgia. You know, many of these folks are waiting to see if their ticket will be called and they'll be the next ones to be fired. And like I said, it'll affect us all. Across the country. It's not just about them and their jobs, but it's about all of us too.

[Chris Hayes]

Jacob Silverar, thanks for joining us. We'll be watching tomorrow night. The Town hall is tomorrow at 9pm right here on MSNBC. We'll be right back. That is tonight's last word.

[Jonathan Alter]

My name is Lily and I've had.

[Chris Hayes]

Hydradinitis suprativa HS for years. I finally found some relief since taking Cosentyx. Relief means I can show up more.

[H]

Cosenty Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe hidradenitis suppurativa. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections, some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentix or cosentyx.com Ask.

[Chris Hayes]

Your dermatologist about cosenty.