← The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell
Lawrence: How many laws has Trump, who thinks he's a king, violated publicly?
00:41:12
Tonight on The Last Word: The Senate GOP confirms Kash Patel to be FBI director. Plus, the Trump administration fires thousands of IRS workers. Also, NY Governor Kathy Hochul vows to stop the ‘Trump revenge tour.’ And an appeals court rejects Trump’s bid to reinstate his Birthright Citizenship order. Sen. Adam Schiff, Sen. Edward Markey, and Andrew Weissmann join Lawrence O’Donnell.
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- [00:01]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Now it's time for the Last Word with the great Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
- [00:04]
Rachel Maddow
Good evening, Rachel. You know, your last segment there about Donald Trump and Elon Musk setting back Alzheimer's research 20 years, that final response in your discussion was really stunning, but also completely understandable. That's the way medical and scientific research works. Your lab specimens aren't gonna sit there waiting for you to decide about. And it's. And this is exactly the kind of thing that Donald Trump and Elon Musk do not comprehend in the slightest.
- [00:41]
Lawrence O'Donnell
No. And to know that, to hear one of the leading researchers in the field say, we are kind of on the precipice of a breakthrough in terms of treating Alzheimer's. And you just think about how many people watching us right now hear that and it really means something to them personally because they know somebody in their lives who has passed with Alzheimer's. They know somebody who's coping with it now. Have somebody in your family, you know, somebody whose family is contending with that. And to know that a cure is on the horizon and they are cutting the NIH Research center, including its brain bank, and you cannot reverse those cuts once you close that place. You cannot just decide, oops, let's hire them all back. Didn't mean to do that. Like, there's a reason these things need continuous funding. To have this sort of arsonists at work in our country is really painful. I think it's angering, but it's really painful to a lot of people who are dealing with this personally. And I just really feel it, I gotta tell you.
- [01:49]
Rachel Maddow
And it's a mindless cruelty because I'm sure Donald Trump has no idea of anything that was just said in that last segment. He has no idea what he's doing, but Musk has no idea what he's doing. So it's a cruelty that they don't even know they're inflicting.
- [02:06]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Yeah. Well, I'm gonna send him the clip.
- [02:08]
Rachel Maddow
We'll see what happens. Yeah, that's right. That's the audience that needs to see that. Absolutely. Thank you, Rachel.
- [02:15]
Lawrence O'Donnell
Thank you, Lawrence.
- [02:15]
Rachel Maddow
Thank you. Well, with Donald Trump sinking even deeper into the perversion of democracy by literally declaring himself a king yesterday, the news media is facing a challenge that it has never faced in the 236 year history of the American presidency. How to keep track of how many crimes the President has committed publicly, how many laws the president, who thinks he's a king and proclaimed himself a king yesterday, has violated publicly. In a normal presidency, the running count at this point is zero, and that usually remains the running count through every day of a normal presidency. Normal presidents do not publicly violate the law. I had a running tally going in my head for the first day or two of the Trump presidency of how many times he'd violated the law. But I, for one, lost track. And today, with the help of a list compiled by the New York Times, we here at the Last Word, led by intrepid producer Stephanie Kovach, have counted at least 22 actions that appear to be violations of law, including violations of the Constitution, many of which have been at least temporarily blocked by judges. The New York Times list includes Elon Musk's so called Department of Government Efficiency Accessing Sensitive Data systems at the Treasury Department, trying to dismantle the U.S. agency for International Development, including by placing thousands of employees on leave, enabling agency heads to summarily fire some career federal employees without obeying civil service protections. Elon Musk overhauling the executive branch blanket spending freezes, trying to end birthright citizenship, taking funds from cities that don't cooperate with the federal Trump immigration enforcement. The Washington Post reports today that Donald Trump is not fully obeying the orders of federal judges. Quote, federal judges have blocked President Donald Trump's attempts to freeze trillions in federal grants and loans, halt billions in foreign assistance and dismantle the U.S. agency for International Development. But in each case, the administration has said it still has legal authority to do at least some of those things, prompting judges and those challenging Trump's actions to accuse him of failing to comply. Legal experts said the administration's aggressive maneuvers have approached the red line of openly flouting court orders as Trump and his top aides and advisers assert vast presidential powers. Yesterday, Donald Trump asserted kingly powers, literally kingly powers, in a post on social media announcing his attempt to overrule local law in New York City that has successfully reduced traffic gridlock in New York City. Donald Trump said congestion pricing is dead in Manhattan. All of New York is saved. Long live the king. Exclamation point, President Donald J. Trump, accompanied by this grotesque representation of a truly mad and imaginary king wearing a gold crown. Tonight, a federal judge ruled that Donald Trump is not fully complying with a court order blocking the freezing of foreign assistance grants and contracts. The temporary restraining order was issued last week by Judge Amir Ali. Judge Ali ruled, quote, the blanket suspension of congressionally appropriated foreign aid, pending review, had and would continue to cause irreparable harm and that the blanket suspension was likely arbitrary, capricious and under the administrative Procedure Act. Donald Trump said last week in the Oval Office that he intends to obey rulings by judges, but so far some judges don't think he's doing that. And into this lawlessness tonight steps the first FBI director in history whose Senate confirmation was publicly protested by United States Senators. When left to his own devices, Kash Patel has proven himself to be a wildly vindictive partisan. When around Donald Trump, Kash Patel has proved himself to be a sycophantic suck up. Kash Patel, mark my words, will cause evil in this building behind us. And Republicans who vote for him will rue that day. That was Rhode Island Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, who last night on this program coined the term Trump servience to describe the breathtaking weakness of Republican United States senators. At the protest at the FBI headquarters today, California Senator Adam Schiff said this.
- [07:46]
Adam Schiff
In the first Trump administration, as we are seeing in the second, you rise to the level of your sycophancy and no one is a bigger or more dangerous sycophant than Kash Patel. This political hack does not deserve to be in this building. He can't do the job.
- [08:06]
Rachel Maddow
Only two Republican senators voted against the confirmation of someone who before Donald Trump would have won the votes of zero senators from either party for FBI director or any other federal position. Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine said Mr. Patel has made numerous politically charged statements in his book and elsewhere discrediting the work of the FBI, the very institution he has been nominated to lead. These statements, in conjunction with the questionnaire sent to thousands of FBI employees, cast doubt on Mr. Patel's ability to advance the FBI's law enforcement mission in a way that is free from the appearance of political motivation. Here is what Donald Trump's FBI director said he would do on the first day at FBI headquarters.
- [08:59]
Kash Patel
The FBI's footprint has gotten so fricking big, and the biggest problem the FBI has had has come out of its intel shops. I'd break that component out of it. I'd shut down the FBI Hoover Building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state.
- [09:17]
Rachel Maddow
Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said, I have been disappointed that when he had the opportunity to push back on administration's decision to force the FBI to provide a list of agents involved in the January 6 investigations and prosecutions, he failed to do so. He is a yes man for President.
- [09:38]
Ed Markey
Trump, already undermining the critical bureau he.
- [09:42]
Rachel Maddow
Wants to lead, already demonstrating an alarming willingness to do the bidding of a vengeful White House on most Issues. All elected Republicans in Washington bow in flawless Trump servience to Donald Trump, none of whom objected to Donald Trump calling himself a king yesterday. But once in a while, and just once in a while, a Republican senator sounds like what a Republican senator used to sound like back when Donald Trump was in the business of pretending to fire people on tv. It was Republican Senator Thom Tillis turn to remember today what it was like to actually say what he thinks. On the Senate floor, Senator Tillis gave full voice to his disagreement with Donald Trump about Vladimir Putin.
- [10:38]
Ed Markey
Whoever believes that there is any space for Vladimir Putin and the future of a stable globe better go to Ukraine. They better go to Europe. They better invest the time to understand that this man is a cancer and the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime. And it will be a cancer that spreads into the South China Sea, into Taiwan, and metastasized across the globe. So, ladies and gentlemen, when I tell you that Vladimir Putin is a liar, a murderer, and a man responsible for ordering the systematic torture, kidnapping and rape of innocent civilians, believe me, because the evidence is mile high.
- [11:27]
Rachel Maddow
Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Senator Schiff, I want to begin where Senator Tillis just left off today. How did what he, how did that go down with his Republican colleagues getting up there and saying what he actually thinks about Vladimir Putin?
- [11:46]
Adam Schiff
Well, my guess is most of them looked at him with some envy that he was able, demonstrated the courage to speak what they're all thinking because they understand what a threat that Putin represents. They also see what an abject surrender Trump is making to the Kremlin's interest, the way that Trump is denouncing Zelensky, the way he has adopted the Kremlin talking points, that somehow Ukraine is to blame for its own invasion. They understand the danger in what Donald Trump is doing and saying and how it is irrevocably damaging our NATO alliance and our standing in the rest of the world. So I think that the vast majority of them are complete agreement with what Tom Tillis said. They just aren't willing to confront the President. We're going to have votes on Ukraine tonight. As a part of this voter rama that we're in the middle of. I've offered a Ukraine amendment, as have others, to affirm our support for Ukraine, condemn Putin, and we'll see they'll be tested whether their rhetoric is going to match their votes.
- [12:55]
Rachel Maddow
Senator, I know you've been on the Senate floor with this budget resolution that's moving through the Senate, which opens up all sorts of opportunities for all sorts of issues to be raised. What have you been pushing out there on the Senate floor tonight?
- [13:10]
Adam Schiff
Well, I just walked off the Senate floor where I offered an amendment that is still being voted on. I cast my vote to stop the Trump freeze on the hiring of wildland forest firefighters, if you can believe this, even as we've just gone through these cataclysmic fires in California and are about to start a new fire season, these firefighters who were bravely out there battling the flames are getting a letter from Donald Trump that says, please quit. It's just absurd. And others are getting a letter that said, you got an offer to be hired. We're rescinding that offer. We can't afford to lose that talent pool. And it's a hell of a thank you for your service to say please quit. So my amendment would push back against the firing off, the laying off, the discouragement of these important firefighters. Again, we'll see whether the Republicans are willing to stand up to Trump on even something as basic as that.
- [14:12]
Rachel Maddow
And Senator, with all this going on on the Senate floor, you did something that senators have never done before, to actually go out to the street, in this case, outside the FBI headquarters today to protest the confirmation by the Republican senators of an FBI director who was absolutely unimaginable as being qualified for any form of federal service prior to Donald Trump winning the presidency.
- [14:41]
Adam Schiff
Yes, we stood outside the FBI headquarters to make a last plea against this terrible choice to be FBI director. Kash Patel. Kash Patel is the guy you go to when everybody else says, no, I won't do it. It's too immoral, it's too unethical, it's too unlawful. He's the guy. That's why he was chosen. You rise to the level of your utter sycophancy in the Trump administration. But here's the thing. I've worked with the FBI for decades, ever since I was a federal prosecutor. They're the premier law enforcement agency. Only in Trump world, a world in which you pardon hundreds of people for beating police officers and then you purge the FBI agents that pursued them. Only in that kind of world does a Kash Patel become FBI director. But that's the upside down, terrible world we're living in at this moment. And Kash Patel has now been given a 10 year term as FBI director. I cannot imagine the damage that he can do if he's given a decade to do it. And so we find ourselves in really uncharted waters. I think you'd have to go back to Herbert Hoover to find another FBI director so intent on using the powers of that position to go after president's enemies.
- [15:58]
Rachel Maddow
Yeah. And what we've also seen here, obviously, is now the politicization of that position because it is inconceivable if there's a Democratic president sworn in four years from now, that that president wouldn't immediately fire this FBI director.
- [16:15]
Adam Schiff
Well, and I meant J. Edgar Hoover here. Yes. You know, we'll see whether this 10 year term, which was meant to insulate the office and allow an FBI director to go from one administration continue serving into the next, a norm and more than a norm of practice that was changed when essentially Chris Wray decided he needed to resign because it meant ultimate conflict with Donald Trump and he felt that was in the best service of the FBI not to continue as director. Look, when Donald Trump is gone, there's a Democratic president. I can't imagine they're going to want to keep on someone as destructive as Cash Patel. But I could imagine, frankly that we would be in this place to begin with. So we're in uncharted waters. We've had a debate about what level of constitutional crisis we're in. And frankly, I think we're already there. And yes, it can get worse if they just start ignoring court opinions. But when you have someone who is essentially the president's Roy Cohn, his hatchet man, now controlling the premier law enforcement agency, when you've got Pam Bondi, an election denier, as the attorney general, when you got Emil Bove insisting on the firing of prosecutors in New York because they don't want to dismiss in a corruption case against the mayor for the reason that the mayor is helping the president with his immigration policy. That's the argument of the Justice Department. And we saw just how dangerously absurd that argument is today when Emil Bove was making the point that, yes, this can go beyond this mayor in New York, basically they can decide to pursue or not pursue any criminal case depending on whether an elected official is helping their agenda.
- [18:13]
Rachel Maddow
He also extended grounded and he extended it in court yesterday beyond elected officials to people like the New York City Police commissioner. Like you can't prosecute the New York City Police Commissioner anymore. Senator Adam Schiff, I know you want to get back on the Senate floor while that vote clock is ticking down to the last minute to see how that vote count goes. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
- [18:32]
Adam Schiff
Thanks, Lawrence.
- [18:33]
Rachel Maddow
Thank you. And coming up, Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts will join us next we have breaking news from the Washington Post at this hour. Breaking news that could eventually involve or morph into election interference. If you remember just how much Donald Trump does not like, to put it mildly, voting by mail. He does not like that every California voter is mailed a ballot that they can mark and mail back in as their form of voting. Donald Trump's completely opposed to that. Keep that in mind as I read you this breaking news from the Washington Post. President Donald Trump is preparing to dissolve the Leadership of the U.S. postal Service and absorb the independent mail agency into his administration, potentially throwing the 250-year-old mail provider and trillions of dollars of E Commerce transactions into turmoil, not to mention what that can all mean for mail in voting. It's 54 days before the most important day in your taxpaying life. April 15. With the income tax filing deadline looming, this is when the Internal Revenue Service every year hires extra temporary employees to deal with the flood of tax returns, most of which arrive very close to the deadline in overwhelming numbers. This year, for the first time in history, thanks to Elon Musk and Donald Trump, the IRS today began firing at least 6,700 IRS workers. Every one of those workers turns a massive profit for the United States of America. IRS workers are the federal workers who make money for the federal government. It doesn't get simpler than that. They are the, literally, by dollar amounts, the most valuable federal workers. At the IRS facility in Kansas City, Missouri, employees were emailed instructions to bring all work equipment to the office today and then were escorted out of the building. Shannon Ellis, the president of the union that represents IRS employees at the Kansas City facility, said this to local news station KCTV. We're already understaffed and underfunded. Have been for 15 years.
- [21:09]
Kathy Hochul
And, you know, so we're already in.
- [21:12]
Rachel Maddow
Very much need of all the employees that are on campus.
- [21:15]
Kathy Hochul
And for this to this to happen.
- [21:16]
Rachel Maddow
Right before tax season is just unacceptable. Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts. He's a member of the Senate Health, Education, labor and Pensions Committee and the Senate Commerce Committee. Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I wanted to get your reaction to this breaking news of Donald Trump becoming the first president to decide to take over the post office.
- [21:41]
Andrew Weissman
Well, obviously, it's an attempt to ensure, as you said, that absentee ballots are something that's very difficult for Americans to, in fact, use as the way in which they vote in our country. Now, we know that he admires Vladimir Putin. He admires the elections in Russia. He somehow or other thinks that's a democracy and that Ukraine is not. And he's modeling everything upon this autocratic, authoritarian, dictatorial, king like presence that he wants to play inside of our government. And it follows his incursion into the tax records of Americans, into the Social Security records of Americans, which from cradle to grave are the life stories of every one of us. It's authoritarianism on steroids going department by department in order to ensure that he is the king of the United States. And he is absolutely modeling everything he's doing on Vladimir Putin, because as phony as those elections are, that's what he wants to do in America. He just wants to absolutely handicap the ability for Americans to be able to vote in a democratic way.
- [23:03]
Rachel Maddow
Senator, I want to get your insights to what's happening at the irs. You have a big IRS processing facility in Andover not far from where you live in Massachusetts. And as we know, this is normally rush hiring season at the IRS to bring in temporary extra workers to process this massive rush of tax returns. And here we see Donald Trump and Elon Musk trying to get rid of IRS workers by the thousands.
- [23:30]
Andrew Weissman
Well, as you said earlier, this is an attempt to undermine the efficiency of the IRS. For every dollar that's spent by the IRS, they collect $12 back from the wealthiest Americans who are engaging in fraud. So that's about as good a return on investment as anything in the history of capitalism. And he wants to undermine it. He wants to absolutely decapitate the effectiveness of the IRS in ensuring that there's full compliance with the tax laws. And its totally consistent with his attempts to take a chainsaw to the bureaucracy, which is what Elon Musk was saying today. But it's really a chainsaw to the ability to monitor billionaires. It's a chainsaw to Medicaid, to education, to the epa, to veterans benefits. And it's all to accumulate the money that will then be sent to billionaires in tax cuts, which then won't have the ability at the IRS to properly audit whether or not they in fact are paying their full and fair share of the dues to run our country. So the plot is absolutely becoming clearer and clearer as each day goes by as they attempt to, for all intents and purposes, just take over the federal government as an autocratic authoritarian leader.
- [25:02]
Rachel Maddow
Senator, I know you've been out there on the Senate floor with this budget resolution that's moving the Republican resolution, trying to amend it, trying to save and preserve certain things, certain programs. What have you been raising out there today? And tonight on the senate floor.
- [25:20]
Andrew Weissman
Well, 7 million Americans have Alzheimer's right now. 15 million Americans, baby boomers are going to have Alzheimer's. And my amendment just says that there should be no cuts to Alzheimer's research. But much like every other amendment so far tonight, I expect the Republicans to vote no, that Alzheimer's research can be cut. And by the way, last year about $250 billion of Medicare and Medicaid money was spent on taking care of Alzheimer's patients in the United States of America. If we don't find a cure, it will bankrupt the health care system in our country. But I expect another no vote by the Republicans on cuts to Alzheimer's as they are doing on ensuring that educational or medical or national park or fire safety programs aren't exempted from the cuts. So it's just going to be a continuation. But I'm going to put Alzheimer's right at the top of the list because I think there isn't an American that doesn't have Alzheimer's as part of their family story right now.
- [26:27]
Rachel Maddow
And Senator, just so you know, on Rachel Maddow the hour before this, she had an Alzheimer's researcher on saying they've all already destroyed some of the Alzheimer's research that's going on that cannot just be restarted some of the scientific samples and other of it. And he said it's possible if they continue the way they're doing it right now, they will set back this research effort 20 years. Senator Ed Markey, thank you so much for joining us tonight from the Senate floor. Thank you. Coming up today, New York Governor Kathy Hochul said New York is experiencing, quote, the Trump revenge tour. That's next with Andrew Weissman.
- [27:10]
Kathy Hochul
We fought a war 250 years ago to depose a king who tried to impose his will on a young country. We don't have a king today because it conflicts with the very genius of a democracy where the voices and the votes of the people, not a king, not a queen and not a governor, should prevail.
- [27:36]
Rachel Maddow
That was the governor of New York today, still angry after Donald Trump proclaimed himself a king, literally in social media posting announcing his intent to veto a New York City law, overrule it, that is, that has successfully reduced traffic jams in New York City, the most local of issues. And it is worth pausing, pausing for a moment to consider all those people who just repeatedly told you last year that Joe Biden was just too old to be president. Joe Biden's brain just wasn't working sharply enough to be president. Declaring yourself to be a king. And including a doctored picture of you wearing a gold crown is the kind of thing you would use to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone doesn't have the mental capacity to serve as president of the United States or any other elective office. Imagine if Joe Biden had ever done anything like that. Of course, it is unimaginable. It's unimaginable that any president other than Donald Trump would have ever done anything like that, including Woodrow Wilson, whose mental capacity was severely diminished in his second term as president, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, whose health was fading rapidly in his final year of the presidency while he was still successfully strategizing victory in World War II. Franklin Delano Roosevelt died in office in 1945 on his very last day of life. At his weakest, he was immeasurably smarter than Donald Trump and most other presidents of the United States. Every time Donald Trump speaks now, it becomes obvious that this country and the world would be much better off if Joe Biden were still president. Joe Biden would not be tweeting pictures of himself wearing a crown and calling himself a king and trying to overrule local laws in cities about traffic, cities that didn't vote for him. That is how Governor Hochul began her press conference today in which she announced the inevitable. She would not use her power as governor to just begin a process to try to remove the mayor of New York, Eric Adams, who Donald Trump has decided should no longer be a criminal defendant. Mayor Adams is facing federal charges of bribery, but because he is willing to help Donald Trump's mass deportation program, Donald Trump has told the Justice Department to drop the charges against Mayor Adams, but make sure that you can always bring those charges back anytime you want if the mayor doesn't cooperate with us. A judge is now considering that motion, obviously, meaning anytime the mayor says or does anything that Donald Trump doesn't like, they would throw those charges at that mayor again. Residents of New York City do not want Donald Trump to be their real mayor, and according to the polls, they do not want Eric Adams to be the mayor anymore either. The governor of New York has only the theoretical power to remove the mayor of New York from office. It has remained a theoretical power for 235 years because no governor has ever tried to use it. The governor would have to initiate a hearing where the governor would have to sit as a judge for every minute of that hearing, while the governor was also serving as the prosecutor for every minute of that hearing, presenting the evidence against Eric Adams. And in the end of that hearing, whenever that might be. Because Eric Adams is allowed to call as many witnesses as he wants at the end of that hearing. The governor alone would serve as the jury in that hearing, rendering the final verdict on whether to remove the mayor. And all of that could end up being a subject of a legal appeal to the courts, and the mayor could take that appeal all the way to the United States Supreme Court. That could take years. So this theoretical process by which the governor could remove the mayor might actually take years. There's no possibility for the governor to just summarily fire the mayor. Everyone who's told you the governor can fire the mayor is wrong and does not understand New York law. In fact, none of the local officials that the governor consulted urged her to try to begin that untested and possibly very long removal process.
- [32:02]
Kathy Hochul
After careful consideration, I have determined that I will not commence removal proceedings at this time.
- [32:09]
Rachel Maddow
Governor Hochul pointed out that if she was able to quickly remove the mayor, even though she would have no access to the criminal evidence against the mayor assembled by the FBI, New York City could end up with three different mayors just this year. The line of succession would first go to the city's public advocate, but a special election would then have to be scheduled for mayor even before the already scheduled four year election for mayor, which is actually scheduled for this November.
- [32:38]
Kathy Hochul
I also have concerns about disruption and chaos that such a move, such a proceeding could bring to the residents of this great city. And those who argue just go and remove them, fail to appreciate there is a process involved, due process, the length of the process, and the impact that such a process would have on this city. And actually with the timing, it's not impossible that we'd have a scenario where there's multiple mayors of this city in the course of one year.
- [33:11]
Rachel Maddow
Most reports of this situation, including even in the New York Times, do not specify the complexity of the process the governor would have to preside over to remove the mayor, not to mention how long such a process would take and that the mayor could appeal it to the courts. So most New Yorkers have been badly informed by the news media and given the belief that the governor can simply fire the mayor immediately, which is not true and has never been true. Instead, today, Governor Hochul outlined three quick changes in law that she would like to see enacted by the city of New York and the state legislature for just the rest of this year that would tightly monitor the current mayor of New York City.
- [33:51]
Kathy Hochul
We are taking a number of steps that give us line of sight into budgetary matters, investigative matters, and legal matters to ensure that there's no area where any decisions can be compromised.
- [34:03]
Rachel Maddow
The governor said Donald Trump's abuse of the criminal justice system to, in effect, blackmail the mayor of New York City is all part of what she called the Trump revenge tour.
- [34:16]
Kathy Hochul
The Trump administration has said is already trying to use the legal jeopardy facing our mayor. It's leverage to squeeze and punish our city. The president's already trying to weaken our public transit system and undermine our state sovereignty. I call it the Trump revenge tour, and I have to stand in its way.
- [34:37]
Rachel Maddow
Joining us now is Andrew Weissman, former FBI general counsel, former chief of the Criminal division in the Eastern District of New York. He's also an MSNBC legal analyst. And Andrew, in court, Emil Bove, the acting deputy attorney general, arguing in favor of dismissing this case, argued for some astonishing precedents that would apply not just to this case, but to anywhere in the country.
- [35:00]
Kash Patel
Absolutely. That, to me is the big story is what the issue that is before this judge, if he blesses this. Emil Bove said there is absolute, unfettered, unreviewable discretion that the executive branch has. And he is. That's the number two at the Department of Justice to decide whether to do this dismissal or not. Even if this is key, even if there were a quid pro quo. So here's my hypothetical. I know I gave one about sort of a bribery scheme the other night. Here's another one. Imagine the next defendant is a congressman who is a Democrat, and the Justice Department says, okay, we will move to dismiss this case without prejudice. So it'll just like this case, it'll be hanging over your head. And here's what you have to do. Every time there's a vote, you vote the way we tell you. You vote with the Republicans under Emil Bowie's theory that is unreviewable by the courts. It is permissible. This is sort of, there's a reason. I mean, I'm sort of tongue tied here because this is the reason you are seeing career people of all political persuasions saying, I cannot participate in this. It's that prospect that Emil Bovey had the temerity to stand in court and say, and that is why this decision that Judge Ho has to make is so important.
- [36:33]
Rachel Maddow
Yeah. And he, in a way, in his argument in court, was already locked into that position by Danielle Sassoon in her resignation letter, where she accused him of engaging in a quid pro quo, describing the quid pro quo. And his memo actually makes the quid pro quo what his own Writing makes it very clear. And so he had no idea that any of that writing was going to end up in court in front of a judge. But then once he was there, he was stuck with it.
- [37:02]
Kash Patel
He was stuck with it. And the other part is we all saw Eric Adams carry out what the judge could easily conclude was the effect, the seeing the quo, where you had Eric Adams on TV saying, I am going to capitulate to the Trump administration immigration goals, which is exactly word for word what Emil Bovet said was what they sought.
- [37:25]
Rachel Maddow
Can the judge take that into consideration? Even though that TV interview was not in the courtroom the other day, Emil.
- [37:32]
Kash Patel
Bove said that the judge has no ability whatsoever to consider anything other than just the motion that was before him. That is not the law. The judge has the ability to take judicial notice of all sorts of things, including the amicus brief that was submitted. That has a lot of information in it. But judges can take judicial notice. You know, the other thing the judge could do if he could, he could say, you know what? I want a hearing.
- [38:00]
Rachel Maddow
Yeah.
- [38:00]
Kash Patel
So there are a lot of things, but I can't stress enough the legal importance here of what it could unleash.
- [38:08]
Rachel Maddow
We're going to squeeze on commercial break here because I want to get back to you on what we talked about at the beginning of the show, which is all the illegalities that the Trump administration's already engaged in, especially him just trying to, for example, rewrite birthright citizenship. We're going to be right back with Andrew Weisman. Yesterday, a federal appeals court decided to continue blocking Donald Trump's attempt to simply rewrite the constitutional provision of birthright citizenship. The court said, quote, the exception to birthright citizenship urged by the Trump government didn't say Trump. The government has never been recognized by the judiciary. The exception that Donald Trump is trying to create would deny citizenship to babies born in the United States, to parents who are not citizens. Andrew Weissman is back with us. And Andrew, this is the one is just the most egregious of all, the most obvious. You don't have to make it through high school to know how wrong this one is.
- [39:10]
Kash Patel
I agree. And you wonder if the administration was emboldened by the presidential immunity decision, where the court gave them more than they even asked for, and they're thinking, you know what, let's take a flyer. They clearly don't care about the fact that it's going to hurt and essentially terrorize the people who are affected in that interim. But the idea is maybe they'll win. In the meantime, they will have a sort of won in terms of people being scared, people being worried, people not coming here thinking, am I going to get deported? Because I don't know what's going to happen in this. But just there is some good news. As outlandish as the position is, four separate courts have issued injunctions here. So the government's yet to win on this issue for good reason. And the very first judge was appointed by Ronald Reagan and basically said, where were the lawyers who reviewed this? And that's somewhat naive because this is clearly a deliberate strategy, but it's an example of outrageous conduct by the administration. But I do think it's useful to see that courts there are 80 cases now that are pending on all sorts of issues since January 20th challenging what the administration's done. And they're not just in this case, but there are a series of temporary restraining orders and preliminary injunctions. So the courts so far are standing up 80 cases. Eight. Zero.
- [40:52]
Rachel Maddow
I have about eight of them in my head like that's it. And they're all just egregious and shocking in cases I never could have imagined before.
- [41:00]
Kash Patel
That is a fair assessment.
- [41:02]
Rachel Maddow
Andrew Weissman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We'll be right back. Andrew Weissman gets tonight's last word here.