Lawrence: Musk & Hegseth lead ‘humiliation parades’ in the halls of Congress

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell Episode: Musk & Hegseth lead ‘humiliation parades’ in the halls of Congress
Release Date: December 6, 2024

Lawrence O'Donnell delves into the intricate dynamics within Congress, spotlighting high-profile figures like Elon Musk and Pete Hegseth. The episode navigates through political maneuvers, ethical investigations, electoral outcomes, and a profound historical narrative involving Dr. Wanda Tucker. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Elon Musk's Political Missteps and Public Humiliation

[00:31 - 07:13]

Lawrence O'Donnell opens by critiquing Elon Musk's frequent public gaffes, contrasting them with the more controlled public statements of corporate CEOs.

• Key Points:

  • Public Self-Humiliation: Unlike politicians like Donald Trump, who are compelled to speak frequently, Musk voluntarily engages in public discourse, often beyond his expertise.
  • Senate Majority Leader Endorsement: Musk's endorsement of Florida Senator Rick Scott was futile as Rick placed last among the serious candidates, leading to John Thune's victory.
  • Defense Spending Cuts: Musk's proposals to drastically cut Defense Department budgets, specifically targeting the F35 fighter jets, lack feasibility and support, receiving backing only from Senator Bernie Sanders, who opposes such cuts.
  • Ineffectiveness as a Lobbyist: Musk is portrayed as an ineffective lobbyist, failing to influence Congress despite his prominent platform.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Elon Musk unwisely steps out of his intellectual depth every day, repeatedly, to humiliate himself...” [00:31]
  • “Elon Musk is simply another lobbyist in Washington trying to convince Congress to do something that Congress does not want to do.” [07:13]

2. Pete Hegseth's Struggle for Secretary of Defense Confirmation

[07:13 - 16:13]

O'Donnell shifts focus to Pete Hegseth's contentious bid for the Secretary of Defense position, highlighting his lack of qualifications and damaging personal history.

• Key Points:

  • Unqualified Nominee: Hegseth's confirmation efforts are undermined by his past alcohol-related incidents and lack of relevant experience.
  • Failed Support from Senate: Leadership figures like J.D. Vance distance themselves from Hegseth, leaving him without influential endorsements.
  • Inadequate Campaign Strategies: Hegseth's unconventional tactics, such as involving his mother in his lobbying efforts, are unprecedented and ineffective.
  • Comparative Analysis: The episode contrasts Hegseth with respected figures like Clarence Thomas, emphasizing the importance of having a credible Senate savior during confirmation.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Pete Hegseth is clearly not one of them [serious candidates]. With allegations of sexual assault, financial mismanagement and others against him.” [21:02]
  • “Hegseth does not have a Senate savior. ...Pete Hegseth is not a Senate savior.” [23:16]

3. Ethics Committee Report on Matt Gaetz Investigation

[24:08 - 31:56]

The discussion transitions to the ongoing Ethics Committee investigation into former Congressman Matt Gaetz, shedding light on testimonies and procedural dynamics.

• Key Points:

  • Testimonies of Young Women: Attorney Joel Leopard reveals testimonies alleging inappropriate conduct between Representative Gates and a 17-year-old girl, orchestrated by Joel Greenberg.
  • Committee Proceedings: Congressman Glenn Ivey outlines the committee's stance, emphasizing bipartisan efforts to ensure proper vetting of nominees and maintaining ethical standards.
  • House Floor Dynamics: Republican opposition is highlighted, particularly in motions to release the Ethics Committee report, which faced party-line votes.
  • Future Implications: The committee may release the report in future congressional sessions, barring statute limitations on certain allegations.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “We have had discussions and they’re ongoing...” [28:11]
  • “There were no payments from Representative Gates at that particular time... the payments came later on at separate events.” [26:44]

4. Election Results: Adam Gray’s Victory in California’s 13th District

[31:56 - 37:00]

The episode celebrates Adam Gray's unexpected win in California's 13th congressional district, marking a significant gain for the Democrats.

• Key Points:

  • Campaign Strategy: Adam Gray focused on portraying himself as a dedicated worker rather than a combative politician, resonating with voters seeking effective representation.
  • Agricultural Advocacy: Gray emphasizes addressing critical local issues, particularly California’s vast agricultural sector, water management, healthcare infrastructure, and education.
  • Bipartisan Potential: Gray expresses a commitment to working across the aisle to address the district’s needs, highlighting the potential for bipartisan support in his initiatives.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Nobody ever talks about, you know, I’m working for you. And we don’t hire elected officials to fight for us.” [35:03]
  • “We produce two thirds of the country's fresh fruits and vegetables. And issues related to agriculture, like water, are extraordinarily important here.” [35:43]

5. Dr. Wanda Tucker’s Historical Narrative and Presidential Visit

[37:00 - 45:26]

In a poignant segment, Dr. Wanda Tucker shares her ancestral history connected to the first slave ship to America and President Biden's recognition of her family's legacy during his trip to Angola.

• Key Points:

  • Ancestral Legacy: Dr. Tucker is a descendant of William Tucker, the first child born into slavery in America, whose family was taken from Angola in 1619.
  • President Biden’s Visit: Biden’s trip to Angola, the departure point of the first slave ship, underscores a historic acknowledgment and partnership aimed at fostering economic and social development.
  • Emotional Connection: Dr. Tucker recounts her profound experience meeting President Biden, highlighting themes of healing, recognition, and the importance of mutual understanding between the U.S. and Angola.
  • Future Aspirations: The collaboration between the two nations is envisioned to enhance opportunities in Angolan communities, particularly for the youth, through initiatives like the libido corridor project.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “President Biden spent more time with me than the others at the National Slavery Museum. He recognized me, my brother Vincent Tucker, cousin Carolita Cope, as descendants of Angolans and the first black child born and baptized in the English colony.” [37:00 - 37:47]
  • “The partnership means that my Angolan family will have more opportunities for economic development. Telling the world that our countries are connected by a history and a people and we can work together, must work together for both our countries to move forward.” [44:26]

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Conclusion:

In this episode, Lawrence O'Donnell critically examines the influence of non-traditional political players like Elon Musk and Pete Hegseth within Congress, emphasizing the pitfalls of their approaches. The discussion underscores the importance of credible leadership and ethical standards in governmental appointments. Additionally, the episode highlights significant political shifts with election outcomes and offers a moving historical perspective through Dr. Wanda Tucker’s narrative, bridging past atrocities with present-day reconciliation efforts.

Overall Notable Quotes:

• “Elon Musk is simply another lobbyist in Washington trying to convince Congress to do something that Congress does not want to do.” [07:13]
• “Pete Hegseth is clearly not one of them [serious candidates]. With allegations of sexual assault, financial mismanagement and others against him.” [21:02]
• “Nobody ever talks about, you know, I’m working for you. And we don’t hire elected officials to fight for us.” [35:03]
• “The partnership means that my Angolan family will have more opportunities for economic development...” [44:26]

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This detailed summary encapsulates the multifaceted discussions from the episode, providing listeners and readers with a thorough understanding of the critical issues addressed by Lawrence O'Donnell.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

First and foremost, the thing that powers your business is power. And when it comes to power, Ford Pro has options. Now scratch that. We've got every option. Diesel, gas, hybrid and all electric. Plus they're all connected, so you're always in the driver's seat. The power is yours. Visit FordPro.com today to learn more. Well, no one in public life now self humiliates more than Elon Musk. Yes, Donald Trump self humiliates all the time, with most of what comes out of his mouth and of course, every dance move. But as a politician, Donald Trump is required in that pursuit to speak publicly and to do so frequently. Corporate titans don't have to do that. They are under no obligation to speak. We have no idea what Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, thinks about most things. We have no idea what the head of General Motors or Ford or the people running Google think about most things. But Elon Musk unwisely steps out of his intellectual depth every day, repeatedly, to humiliate himself the way I would humiliate myself if I were to talk about electric cars, for example. He humiliates himself talking about subjects he knows absolutely nothing about, like who should be the next majority leader of the United States Senate. Donald Trump didn't say a public word about that. He did not dare. But Elon Musk foolishly did. Elon Musk picked Florida Senator Rick Scott publicly endorsed him, and Rick stopped. Rick Scott came in last among the group of three candidates for majority leader. Everyone knew he was going to come in last. Only two of those candidates were serious candidates, and only one of them actually had a real chance. Senator John Thune of South Dakota won on the first ballot, even though Elon Musk publicly opposed John Thune and announced publicly, and he thought this was really condemning, that John Thune was really the favorite choice of Democrats. And that is actually true. Democrats don't want John Thune to be majority leader. They want Chuck Schumer to stay as Majority leader. But if a Republican has to be Majority leader, they would prefer John Thune to the alternatives. Elon Musk foolishly believed that identifying that simple fact that Democrats would prefer John Thune would kill John Thune's candidacy for Majority leader with Republican senators. But everyone in the Senate already knew that the Democrats preferred John Thune. And so Elon Musk's public humiliation today began in John Thune's office, where next year's Republican Majority Leader of the Senate politely allowed Elon Musk an audience. Elon Musk apparently loves an audience, which is why he was so eager to get on the stage with Donald Trump and literally jump up and down. And Elon Musk and his Trump assigned sidekick, Vivek Ramaswamy got an audience today with Republicans in the House and Senate about their brilliant new ideas that no one else has ever thought of to cut trillions of dollars from the federal budget. Something Donald Trump has tricked them into thinking they can do by putting them in charge of a department that does not exist, a department that they are calling the Department of Government Efficiency. Elon Musk got the support of exactly one senator when he announced he wanted to drastically cut defense spending. The one senator who supports drastically cutting defense spending is of course not a Republican. He is a Senator who has been pushing for drastic cuts in defense spending for his entire career. That Senator is Bernie Sanders of Vermont. The only specific cut to defense spending that Elon Musk has offered is that he wants to completely kill the ultra expensive F35 fighter plane. However, even Bernie Sanders has a piece of the F35 action in Vermont with some planes stationed there. And you better not try to cut Bernie Sanders F35s in Vermont. Unlike Elon Musk, Bernie Sanders actually has a vote in the United States Senate, but he has not been able to cut defense spending. Elon Musk who does not have a vote in the Senate or the House will not be able to stop the F35 or cut defense spending. The F35 is one of the most massive defense projects with contracts spread out over dozens of states, so that it is guaranteed the support of members of the House and the Senate who have pieces of that contract in their states, as well as the support of champions of defense spending whose states don't even get a penny from the F35. Only Congress can vote to cut the F35. And so, as I've said before, Elon Musk is simply another lobbyist in Washington trying to convince Congress to do something that Congress does not want to do. And he's the most ignorant lobbyist Washington's ever seen. The United States has been selling F35s to other countries, including the United Kingdom, Japan and Israel, where it is now the most popular flying weapon of war. Saudi Arabia desperately wants to buy F35s. What do you think Donald Trump's going to do when Elon Musk urges him to support the elimination of the F35 and Saudi Arabia says to Donald Trump, we Want to buy F35s? The F35 will be flying high around the world long after Elon Musk's last public humiliation in Washington. Here is how enthusiastic the Republican speaker of the House, Mike Johnson was about House Republicans big meeting today with Elon Musk Listen, I'll just say this is.

[Mike Johnson]

A very productive meeting with Republicans from the Senate and the House today.

[Pete Hegseth]

No, I can't.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

I'm late for a portrait unveiling. Very productive meeting. Let me translate in congressional speak to reporters. Very productive meeting is what you say when you have absolutely nothing to say. It certainly is not the language used to convey enthusiasm. That is not full speed ahead language. And I'm late for a portrait unveiling is another way of saying I'm going to run away from this insanity as fast as I can right now. A portrait unveiling. That's the enthusiasm Elon Musk managed to create in the Republican speaker of the House who needs to approve any spending cuts that Elon Musk wants the government to do. They all go through Mike Johnson in the House and they all then have to go through the United States Senate. I mean, I guess it's a sign of respect that the speaker of the House allowed Elon Musk to make him late for a portrait unveiling. Elon Musk was not leading the only humiliation parade in the halls of Congress today. The Pete Hegseth disgrace tour of Senate offices continued with JD Vance nowhere to be seen on the first day of Senate office tours for Donald Trump's choice for Secretary of Defense. Pete Hegseth had Senator J.D. vance smiling at his side every step of the way, just like J.D. vance did so successfully and memorably for Matt Gaetz way back when Matt GAETZ was Donald Trump's choice for attorney general. But even J.D. vance knows when a nomination is dead. And so he handed off the escorting task to one of the most spectacular losers in the history of the United States Senate. J.D. vance was in Washington today, but he refused to have anything to do with Pete Hegsev. And I don't say Norm Coleman is a loser as an insult. I'm just reporting it as a fact. There's no disgrace in coming in second in an election as Norm Coleman did in his Senate reelection campaign in 2008. But Norm Coleman has the singular distinction in United States Senate history of being the very first and only United States senator who lost his reelection campaign to a comedian. Republican Norm Coleman was defeated in 2008 in his reelection campaign by Democrat Al Franken. Al Franken went on to serve as a studious and serious and effective United States Senator, unlike the forgettable Norm Coleman. Norm Coleman made the standard choice for most senators in the 21st century who lose their reelection campaigns. He became a Washington lobbyist. He now represents Saudi Arabia, and he also represents this week. Anyway, Pete Hegseth. He is now Pete Hegseth's official guide on Pete Hegseth's hopeless tour of Senate offices, trying to push his confirmation up to 51 votes in the Senate. There's Norm Coleman right there with Pete Hegseth. Norm Coleman is not one of those respected former senators who's respected on both sides of the aisle. There are fewer and fewer of those than ever. But Norm Coleman was never going to be the kind of respected Senate veteran who could actually in any way help a troubled nominee get through the confirmation process. Of course, the best possible guide you could have in the Senate as a nominee is an actual current United States Senator. And if you're a troubled nominee, an actual current United States senator can be invaluable to your Senate tour. Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court tonight, largely because he was guided through what became a Senate lobbying campaign by Republican Senator Jack Danforth of Missouri, who was a sitting senator at the time and one of the most respected members of the Senate by both parties. Jack Danforth saved that nomination. Pete Hegseth does not have a Senate savior. In brief comments to reporters today in the hallway of the Senate, Pete Hegseth said that he spoke to Donald Trump on the phone today. And he said, this is what Hegseth said. He's behind us all the way. I don't know what he means by us, but okay. The problem for Pete Hegseth with Donald Trump being on the phone with Pete Hegseth, if that's true, is that Donald Trump was not on the phone at that same time with a Republican senator who needs to be convinced to vote for Pete Hegseth. That is Donald Trump's one and only job today. If, if, if he's really pushing the Hegseth nomination and there are multiple Reports indicating that Donald Trump is not making a single phone call to any senator for Pete Hegseth and multiple reports that Donald Trump is considering alternatives to Pete. And if that's true, that is a very strong statement that Donald Trump can make to the Senate. It's a strong statement that in effect says to the Senate. Donald Trump's silence in phone calls to the Senate means to them that he will be moving on from ptegseth as soon as he has someone to name as defense secretary who he thinks can be confirmed. Most nominees for Senate confirmation are there because of their experience. Ideally, they bring solid records of achievement that are relevant to the job they are being nominated for, and they stress their personal history and experience to senators in private meetings and in confirmation hearings. They do not bring their spouses with them to those meetings, as Pete Hegseth has been doing, so that he can parade his third marriage as what looks like on camera anyway, in a hallway, a good marriage. They do not ask their mothers to call senators. They don't do that. The Hill is reporting today that Pete Hegseth told Republicans that his mother is calling senators for him. Donald Trump's not calling senators for him, but he says his mother is calling senators for him. That has never happened in the history of the Senate confirmation process. No mother has ever called. Never. Instead of stressing his personal experience and his history to United States senators and to the public, Pete Hegseth's public case for his confirmation, as he expressed it today, is this.

[Narrator]

I'm a different man than I was years ago.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

How about the man he was months ago? NBC News reports one of the sources said they smelled alcohol on him as recently as last month and heard him complain about being hungover this fall. Here is the man Pete Hegseth says he no longer is. The New York Times reports. At Fox News, the network's human resources department looked into Mr. Hegseth's conduct at the Fox and Friends Christmas party in 2016 and discussed it with him, according to a person with intimate knowledge who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a personnel matter. The following December, Mr. Hegseth got so drunk at a wedding of a Fox News producer that he struggled to stand upright in a men's bathroom, according to two people with direct knowledge of the episode who declined to be named for fear of retribution. Friends asked a producer who was there to get Mr. Hegseth a ride home so he could make it to the set by 6am they said Secretary of Defense never has to worry about getting a ride home but the Secretary of Defense has to be sober enough to receive and process some very important, urgent, worldwide important phone calls at any hour of the day or night.

[Narrator]

I'm a different man than I was years ago.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Here is that different man, the Washington Post reports. At Fox News, Hegseth had a reputation as a heavy drinker, according to six former Fox News employees who worked directly with Hegseth and saw him drinking on the job. Our visibly drunk at work events and who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of fear of retaliation. Several years ago, during a St. Patrick's segment on Fox and Friends weekend, support staff at the Cable News Network set up a display of beers for a holiday segment on the show. After the segment aired, Hegseth walked by the display table and drank each beer, according to two former colleagues who witnessed the incident and spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive episode. The incident struck the colleagues as jarring for two reasons. One, the displayed drinks had been sitting out for hours and we're stale and warm. Two, the show wraps up at 10am an early hour for alcohol consumption. Clarence Thomas confirmation hearing defense was I didn't do any of the things I'm accused of doing. Pete Hegseth's defense is, I'm a different man than I was years ago. That line of defense has never been tried before in a Senate confirmation hearing, not once. If Republican senators accept that line of defense, they will be the first senators in history in the confirmation process to accept the changed man defense. You'll be hearing a version of that changed man defense from Robert Kennedy Jr. If he makes it all the way to a confirmation hearing for Secretary of Health and Human Services, the most unqualified nominee in the history of that position. When Robert Kennedy Jr. S criminal possession of heroin comes up and his heroin addiction comes up, he will say, I'm a different man than I was years ago. When his abuse of women comes up, he will say, I'm a different man than I was years ago. Elon Musk, too, appears to be a different man than he was years ago when he apparently did a reasonably good job of helping increase the sales of an electric car company after investing in that pre existing company that he did not create. He didn't know anything about electric cars or car production until he invested in that company, but he's going to find that adapting to that manufacturing process was a lot easier than trying to shape federal government spending according to his whim. A senior Republican aide gave Punchbowl News the inside view of congressional Republicans attitude toward Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy's so called Department of Government efficiency quote, two people who know nothing about how the government works, pretending they can cut a trillion dollars, both with decent pulpits to preach from and the ear of an unpredictable president. Disaster. The only good thing is that at some point they'll overpromise and get bounced by Trump. But until then, disaster. Leading off our discussion tonight is Democratic Senator Jackie Rosen of Nevada. She's a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and the Homeland Security Committee. Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight. If Pete Hegseth or someone else makes it to a confirmation hearing for Secretary of Defense, you will be there in that committee with questions. What do you make of the Hegseth candidacy for that job so far?

[Jackie Rosen]

Well, what I can tell you of this is some of these nominees, they are not serious candidates and Pete Hegseth is definitely not a serious candidate. The scope, scale and responsibility that the Secretary of Defense has or that we have in so many of our cabinet positions, it takes a serious person, a qualified person to do this job, a person who can go through our normal vetting process, an FBI check, come before our Senate committee, talk about who they are, what, how they're going to approach that job and be willing to answer our questions. That is our job as the Senate to the American. It's our responsibility to the American people to be sure that we vet these candidates properly and when we vote, we can show people why we vote for them or why we vote against them. There are many serious candidates out there with qualifications. Pete Hegseth is clearly not one of them. With allegations of sexual assault, financial mismanagement and others against him. And I will not be voting for him, I can tell you that.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator, there's so much to talk to Pete Hegseth about in the confirmation hearing, if he ever gets there. But one of the things that's worth considering right now is that Elon Musk is advocating cutting the budget of the Defense Department in very, very, very dramatic ways. It would seem that Donald Trump's nominee for Secretary of Defense, whoever that is, should be asked how much he agrees with Elon Musk about that and where he thinks those cuts would be.

[Jackie Rosen]

Well, I think that you can always look at duplication of programs or ways that we can modernize, go off old systems on, particularly in computer modernization, IT modernization. There are things we can look at to make us more nimble and more efficient. I'm all for that. But to go willy nilly and think you're just going to cut $2 trillion off something or 100 million off this. And these ideas that Ramaswamy, Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk have clearly are not founded in any bit of reality. And so what I would hope is particularly the Secretary of defense responsible to take care of our men and women in uniform. Their families are deployed all around the world. They take an oath to protect us, defend us, and we depend on that. And so you have to take that seriously. We have to protect them and protect our country. And so again, I hope for a serious candidate, one that just doesn't go willy nilly cutting anything without really investigating it.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator, as we've reported here on this program, it only takes one Republican senator on armed services to vote against Pete Hegseth to create what would then be a tie in the committee. The tie doesn't get referred to the Senate floor. If he's defeated in the committee, it doesn't get sent to the Senate floor. There's still a parliamentary way around that. So that you could take this nominee defeated in the committee out to the Senate floor for a vote. Is there, is there any, I haven't seen any scenario where there's 51 votes on this nomination on the Senate floor.

[Jackie Rosen]

Yeah. I'm not sure what's in everybody's mind, but I can tell you that a lot of the folks that I speak with do not take Pete Hegseth seriously and do not want to put our military in his, in his hands, particularly with the financial mismanagement accusations against him, let alone the sexual assault. You know, Democrats and Republicans in a bipartisan way have been working to fight sexual assault in the military, prevent that and be sure that the victims get justice. So I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I do hope that Mr. Hegseth does think about withdrawing his nomination, but make it easier on him. And then President Trump hopefully could find one of these qualified individuals. We know they're out there that can go through the normal process, ones that we can consider vetting and voting for.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Senator Jackie Rosen, a lot of work coming up for you in the confirmation process. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Jackie Rosen]

Thank you for having me.

[Pete Hegseth]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And next today, the House Ethics Committee held a closed door meeting to consider releasing their report. I'm former Congressman Matt Gaetz. Congressman Glenn Ivey is a member of the Ethics Committee. He will join us next. Netcredit is here to say yes to.

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Glenn Ivey]

Yeah, Dad, I think we should.

[Mike Johnson]

Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking. Maybe that's what love sounds like.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Last month, attorney Joel Leopard, who represents two young women who testified to the House Ethics Committee in the Matt Gaetz investigation, told us some of what those young women told the committee about Matt Gaetz.

[Joel Leopard]

And she was invited to that party by Joel Greenberg vis a vis her friend who had met Joel Greenberg on Seeking Arrangements.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Joel Greenberg, who's now in prison?

[Joel Leopard]

That's correct, yeah. And when she arrived, she testified that she had sex with Representative Gates within minutes of arriving.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Within minutes.

[Joel Leopard]

Within minutes arriving, yes. She was introduced to him. Representative Gates took her upstairs into a room and they had sex in one of the bedrooms upstairs.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And was that a prearranged pay for sex encounter?

[Joel Leopard]

So that situation was a situation that Joel Greenberg would have arranged ahead of time. There was no payment from Representative Gates at that particular time. My clients testified that the payments came later on at separate events and after.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

That in that setting. Is that when your client sees the 17 year old girl?

[Joel Leopard]

So it was at that same event back In July of 2017, at another time later on in the party, she was walking outside towards the pool area. She looked to her right and she saw her friend, who was 17 at the time, having sex with Representative Gates.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And your client knew that that girl is 17?

[Joel Leopard]

That's right. She was aware that her friend was under 17 as they went to high school together.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

They went to high school together and that 17 year old was still in high school?

[Joel Leopard]

That's right.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Two days after that discussion on this program, Donald Trump got rid of Matt Gaetz and then nominated a new candidate for Attorney General. Joining our discussion now is Democratic Congressman Glenn Ivey of Maryland. He's a member of the House Ethics Committee and the House Judiciary Committee. He's also a former federal prosecutor. Carlsbad Ivey, thank you so much for joining us tonight. And I know you had a private meeting of the committee today and you can't tell us exactly what went on there, but one question I have about the evidence that the committee heard. Was there contradictory evidence in the committee over points like what we were just hearing about?

[Glenn Ivey]

Yeah, I can't really get into those kinds of details. We put a statement out after the meeting that we had where we talked about the fact that we'd had discussions and they're ongoing. We also had two votes on the House floor today with respect to resolutions that two House Democrats had brought to compel production of the report to the public. The Republicans brought up two motions amendments basically that ended up killing those motions. So basically there were two votes, but the House floor is not going to. The House didn't vote to release the report overall. Basically a party line vote. But we'll continue to meet on the Ethics Committee.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

So the Ethics Committee could decide on its own to release the report, is that right?

[Glenn Ivey]

There could be a vote to do that. That is correct, yes. But, you know, again, I can't really get into the particulars of where that stands, but we are going to have ongoing discussions about that and we'll see how it plays out.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Yeah, I mean, I'm just talking about the rules of the committee, not, not what's actually going on inside the discussion there. The what is, what is your view of the argument that Republican, one Republican made today, Steve Scalise said the member being referenced in the resolution has actually resigned from the House of Representatives, therefore the question is moot.

[Glenn Ivey]

Yeah, I think that was addressed. I think it was Congressman Casten that addressed this. I mean, there have been four instances in the past where members of Congress who have resigned or left still had ethics reports released even after they'd completed their tenure in the Congress. So I don't know that that, you know, is a reason to decide not to release it, and it certainly doesn't make it moot. The committee's lost jurisdiction with respect to sanctions, but not over the report. And certainly the House of Representatives hasn't lost jurisdiction over the report either. So it could be done, but it's just going to be a question of whether the Republicans decide to vote for that or not.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Is there a point at which this report actually cannot be released? I mean, for example, six months from now, next year, new Congress, could the Ethics Committee decide to release that report?

[Glenn Ivey]

Well, I mean, I guess certainly this investigation, this term dies with this Congress. But sure, you could imagine a scenario where in the next Congress a new House Ethics committee convenes and decides to release a report or conduct an investigation or the like. They're not necessarily prevented from doing that. You do run into time restrictions though, on some of the potential allegations. But you know, that would depend on what they investigate and where they want to go.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

When you say time restrictions, do you mean statute of limitations restrictions?

[Glenn Ivey]

Yeah, essentially the equivalent. These aren't statutes, but equivalent to a statute of limitations bar on like criminal or civil legal action. So yes, essentially it's the same thing.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Well, that suggests that the contents of the report might contain elements of a civil or criminal prosecution.

[Glenn Ivey]

No, that's not what I meant.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Okay, I'm over interpreting. Okay. Carson, Glen Ivy, we will leave it there. I appreciate completely the boundaries that you are. You must stay within in this discussion. I understand that completely. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Glenn Ivey]

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you. In the winners circle tonight, the Democrat who flipped a seat in California's 13th congressional district from red to blue in the very last house race called of the election, bringing the Democrats count in the House to 215. Representative elect Adam Gray joins us next.

[Adam Gray]

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[Mike Johnson]

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[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And we have a winner. In the final vote counting of an election for the House of Representatives, the Republicans lost California's 13th congressional district to Democratic challenger Adam Gray. Adam Gray's victory was the ninth seat Democrats were able to flip take away from Republicans in this election. Joining us now is Adam Gray, Democratic representative elect of California's 13th congressional district. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Was there a single message to voters in the 13th that did it?

[Wanda Tucker]

You know, the biggest difference in my campaign was probably the fact that I focused a lot on working. And what I mean by that is, you know, you hear so much about fighting in politics today. I'm fighting for this, I'm fighting for you, I'm fighting for that. Nobody ever talks about, you know, I'm working for you. And we don't hire elected officials to fight for us. We hire elected officials to get things done. And when I was in the state legislature, that's what I did. And we told voters about that record and made the commitment that I'm going to go to Washington and work every day to improve lives here in the Valley.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You know, I got to tell you, this is a surprise to me to hear you say this, but I am thrilled. I have hated the use of the word fighting when people mean working in the United States Senate or in the Congress. I've never seen people fight there. I have seen people work and I've seen people work hard. I've seen people succeed, not succeed, compromise. I don't think it's a semantic thing. I think it does degrade, degrade the actual description of the work use of the word fighting. When you're in those halls, when you go to Washington, what will be the primary interest you'll be representing for your district?

[Wanda Tucker]

Well, you know, this is. I grew up here in central California, and certainly people think about California. It's a very big state, very diverse, and this is the greatest agricultural valley in the world. We produce two thirds of the country's fresh fruits and vegetables. And issues related to agriculture, like water, are extraordinarily important here. It's also a rural community that suffers from some of the many problems that other rural communities. A lack of healthcare infrastructure, educational resources. During my time in the state legislature, we started a medical school program here to make sure that we could get more doctors and nurses and healthcare infrastructure. Those are the same issues I'm going to focus on in Washington. I hope to find some partners on both sides of the aisle that want to work to get those things done and make lives better.

[Glenn Ivey]

Here.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You're welcome back here to talk about California agriculture any time. It is the biggest agriculture state in the union and it's always ignored on that matter. And I'm sure you'll have some bipartisan support on that. Adam Gray, congratulations on the big win bringing the Democrats number up to 215. And thank you very much for joining us tonight.

[Wanda Tucker]

Thanks so much for the invitation. Great to be here and hope to be back again.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

You will. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[Wanda Tucker]

Take care.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

In Africa this week, President Biden told the story of the first child born in slavery in the American colonies. He met that day with our next guest, Wanda Tucker, who is a descendant of that child and his parents who were on the very first slave ship to leave Africa bound for Virginia in 1619. That remarkable story and Wanda Tucker's moving experience this week in Angola with President Biden is next. When Wanda Tucker joins us in Angola this week, President Biden talked about our next guest, Wanda Tucker.

[Joe Biden]

Our people lie at the heart of the deep and profound connection that forever binds Africa and the United States together. We remember the stolen men and women and children who were brought to our shores in chains, subjected to unimaginable cruelty. Here with us today are three Americans who are direct descendants of Anthony Isabella, whose first enslaved Americans. Africans in America, Wanda Tucker of Hamilton, Virginia. Wanda, are you there? There you are, Wanda. God love you. Her brother Vincent and Carolita as well. Thank you for being here. We're going to write history, not erase history. The Tuckers learned their family history around the dinner table. That history led Wanda here in Angola a few years ago. She did not know how to speak the language, but that didn't matter. When Shirov Wanda said she felt something profound, like she'd come home, that was her comment to me. She called it the connection without words.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

When I heard about Wanda Tucker from the president's speech, we invited Wanda to join us on this program, which she is able to do tonight. Our guests, especially new guests on the program, frequently have chats with producers earlier in the day about what they might talk about. I almost never see the notes of those conversations or the emails. But today I read Wanda Tucker's email reply to our producer, Lindley Smith. And I'd like to do something now that we've never done before because I could never write anything to introduce this discussion that comes close to what Wanda Tucker wrote to us today. Hello, Lindley. Sorry, I'm just responding to your email. I needed a little more time to reflect. My first trip to Angola in 2019 was with USA Today. And they documented my journey as a descendant Returning home 400 years after my ancestors, Isabella and Antony, were trafficked to the English Colony in 1619. I will forward some information to you. President Biden and I had a special moment together. I wish I could remember all that he said, but I can't. I can tell you how he made me feel. He was honored to meet me. He valued the story of my ancestors and the work of our family to share it. I felt assured that he understood why the partnership with Angola was important and necessary. He said it was about time. I thanked him. I said that my ancestors would be proud. He said they would be proud of me. I was tearful as the president of the free world was interested in my family's story. He was caring and compassionate. He was empathetic. He was genuine and sincere. He kissed my forehead. Our foreheads were touching as he talked to me. He embraced me. After he greeted the rest of the delegation, he spoke about why he spent more time with me than the others at the National Slavery Museum. He recognized me, my brother Vincent Tucker, cousin Carolita Cope, as descendants of Angolans and the first black child born and baptized in the English colony. He shared our story with the world. He acknowledged the atrocities of slavery. My family was one of millions who suffered and survived. The partnership means that my Angolan family will have more opportunities for economic development. Telling the world that our countries are connected by a history and a people and we can work together, must work together for both our countries to move forward. The public acknowledgement and the work to support it is the beginning for growth and healing. That is all I have right now. Wanda. Joining US now is Dr. Wanda Tucker. She's a descendant of William Tucker, the first child born into slavery in America. Dr. Tucker, thank you so much for joining us tonight. I know you're probably still jet lagged from this trip getting back to Virginia. What would you like to add that you think people should know about your family history and its meaning today?

[Pete Hegseth]

Thank you, Lawrence. It's an honor to be here with you. I want people to know that my family's story came through many generations and our family members continue to tell the story to be remembered from generation to generation to generation. And our story is also built on the foundation of our family historian and genealogist Thelma Greene Williams, who has since deceased. She did a lot of legwork that led me to and our family to be at this place. So we cannot forget her as she continued to tell the story throughout her lifetime. And she told that story to Everyone that she met, she did not want our ancestors to be forgotten.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

It turns out the chances of a president of the United States going to Angola were very low. President Biden is the first of all the presidents to ever go to Angola. I did not realize until this trip that Angola was the actual departure point for that very first slave ship to come to these shores.

[Pete Hegseth]

Yes. And it was important for President Biden to be there, to be in Angola, to acknowledge the atrocities that both of the countries shared, Angola and America, and to stand there and to be able to want to move forward and to be in partnership together. It was so important to me and my family. And I know it's important to millions of others, African Americans, Americans and Angolans.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

And you made the point that the partnership that the president announced, the American support for a major railway project in Angola that will actually reach other African, African countries is so important to your relatives who are still in Angola.

[Pete Hegseth]

Yes, absolutely. That libido corridor project will provide job opportunities and it will expand their reach and to support particularly the young people. There's a large unemployment rate for the young people and so it will give jobs to so many and expand other opportunities in healthcare and education as well.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Dr. Wanda Tucker, I have to tell you, I feel what Joe Biden felt in the excitement of meeting you this way and the honor of having you join our discussion tonight.

[Pete Hegseth]

Thank you.

[Lawrence O'Donnell]

Thank you very much. Dr. Wanda Tucker gets tonight's last word.

[Adam Gray]

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